Transcription complète de Noodling Out Characteristics of a Sex-Love Addict

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WEBVTT 00:16.990 --> 00:40.264 [SPEAKER_01]: grab your big book, your pen, your highlighter and notepad and get ready to hear and apply some of the solution from the big book of alcoholics anonymous through the experience, strength and hope of Nicky M. To have a question addressed in a future episode of Nudel it out with Nicky, please send an email to Nudel with Nicky at gmail.com and Nicky is spelled with two k's. 00:40.244 --> 00:54.746 [SPEAKER_01]: To get a more interactive experience with Nikki as she noodles out life and recovery questions using the big book of alcoholic synonymous, you can get a link to her weekly noodle it out with Nikki meeting helped live on Zoom every Monday morning at 9 o'clock eastern time. 00:55.327 --> 00:59.333 [SPEAKER_01]: The information to that meeting is in the show notes of this podcast. 01:02.688 --> 01:27.210 [SPEAKER_01]: God morning, God afternoon, and God evening to all my name is Justin B, and I'm a son of an all powerful, perfectly loving God and a qualifying addict in multiple fellowships living in the miracle of recovery, one day at a time, and I'm grateful to be here with my sister and co-host, the intelligent spirit head of God's ever advancing creation, Nikki M. Nikki comes say hi and tells us a little bit about the excitement of your life today. 01:27.680 --> 01:50.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, everybody, and yes, it is exciting because I woke up, I mean, God woke me up for another day, just and it's interesting, we start the podcast out like that today because I never know where we're going to take us, but are where you're taking us, but it's like, I'm beginning to realize with my real eyes that the human experience is a blessing. 01:50.967 --> 01:55.174 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, for many, many, many decades, I was like, what is going on? 01:55.314 --> 01:58.579 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't stay on this coming, get me a planet wherever I'm from. 01:58.960 --> 02:07.373 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm realizing what a gift it is to be in this meat suit and to really experience life. 02:08.011 --> 02:12.077 [SPEAKER_00]: looking at it from God's perspective. 02:12.357 --> 02:14.440 [SPEAKER_00]: I really have come in and we're in a spirit world. 02:14.460 --> 02:16.203 [SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm like, why is it exciting? 02:16.223 --> 02:23.233 [SPEAKER_00]: Because God is looking at life and experiencing life through what it's like to be Nicky M, what it's like to be Justin B. 02:23.534 --> 02:25.096 [SPEAKER_00]: What's it like to be my little dog Toby? 02:25.376 --> 02:27.860 [SPEAKER_00]: What's it like to be your little grand babies? 02:28.901 --> 02:30.504 [SPEAKER_00]: You see that concept, you hear yourself? 02:30.524 --> 02:31.185 [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm saying there? 02:31.205 --> 02:34.670 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm just excited today to like, what's God gonna see today? 02:34.750 --> 02:35.571 [SPEAKER_00]: What's it like? 02:35.939 --> 02:37.601 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it, I love it, thank you, Nicky. 02:38.081 --> 02:44.529 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's a great way to look at things is, you know, what is, look at today as an adventure ahead? 02:44.849 --> 02:46.051 [SPEAKER_01]: What does today hold? 02:46.091 --> 02:47.012 [SPEAKER_01]: This will be exciting. 02:47.032 --> 02:51.116 [SPEAKER_01]: How can I look at it through a perspective that will open my eyes to something new? 02:51.156 --> 02:56.222 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, part of this last recording we did was a morning routine type thing. 02:56.322 --> 02:56.763 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we do? 02:56.783 --> 02:58.605 [SPEAKER_01]: Part of my morning routine is a, 02:58.585 --> 03:09.260 [SPEAKER_01]: a set aside prayer, a, you know what, take away all my expectations of today and what I think I know about what I need to know today and fill me with what you need me to know today. 03:09.961 --> 03:20.475 [SPEAKER_01]: And, and that is something that has been very helpful as I go through that, able to see myself in the shoes of my grandkids or you know whatever else that you were talking about there and it was, it's good stuff. 03:20.793 --> 03:31.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so everybody out there, this is Nudel it out with Nicky M. This is a place where we bring our questions about recovery, about addiction, about life, to the big book. 03:31.947 --> 03:41.719 [SPEAKER_01]: of Alcoholics and Autamous and Nicky runs us through noodling out through page after page of a big book wisdom to find the solution that works in hard going. 03:42.280 --> 03:53.213 [SPEAKER_01]: So today, Nicky, what I'd like to do and you and I have talked about this a lot and I think there's a lot of truth to this that underneath pretty much every 03:53.193 --> 04:02.121 [SPEAKER_01]: addiction, pretty much every obsession, compulsion, whatever it may be, their lies a pretty common route. 04:02.541 --> 04:13.731 [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe that this is related to this also a sex and love, a connection, addiction, something I need a connection, not finding it, so I'm going to go dig at it anywhere. 04:13.752 --> 04:18.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Nikki, you brought to me the characteristics of a sex and love addict. 04:18.656 --> 04:23.200 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we noodle 04:23.180 --> 04:27.146 [SPEAKER_01]: is very well a root cause of everything that ales us. 04:28.268 --> 04:29.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's noodle it out. 04:29.610 --> 04:35.500 [SPEAKER_00]: We can, you know, interrupt and jump in if you have a thought to Justin, because we'll just noodle it out back and forth. 04:35.560 --> 04:43.433 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to, I'm going to actually read the set aside prayer because we are a big book podcast. 04:43.413 --> 04:49.141 [SPEAKER_00]: And today, we're really going to ask you to like, yeah, keep the big book in mind, but we want to go outside. 04:49.201 --> 04:59.775 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a list that we got from the Augustine Fellowship, which is of SLAA, sex and love anonymous fellowship worldwide services. 04:59.935

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--> 05:09.808 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's just set aside prayer, which is God, please help us set aside everything we think we know about ourselves. 05:09.788 --> 05:29.471 [SPEAKER_00]: about this disease of alcoholism, about the steps and especially you for an open mind and a new experience with ourselves with this family disease of alcoholism, this steps the way of living and especially you. 05:29.892 --> 05:36.319 [SPEAKER_00]: So with this list because it's not in the big book, but if you break it down, 05:36.299 --> 05:37.340 [SPEAKER_00]: into the big book. 05:37.360 --> 05:47.672 [SPEAKER_00]: So here it is, having few healthy boundaries just in, we become sexually involved and or emotionally attached to people without knowing them. 05:48.233 --> 05:49.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, do you do that? 05:50.275 --> 05:52.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Having few healthy boundaries. 05:52.118 --> 05:53.279 [SPEAKER_00]: Now go, what page is that? 05:53.299 --> 05:54.040 [SPEAKER_00]: That's page 102. 05:54.741 --> 05:57.604 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not helpful to take someone hostage. 05:58.105 --> 06:03.471 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not helpful to trauma dump and go, oh, we're connected. 06:03.451 --> 06:07.158 [SPEAKER_00]: You know this, too, your sponsors will do like this is the love of my life. 06:07.338 --> 06:11.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it really because you guys both met in addiction, you both met maybe even in the rooms? 06:12.288 --> 06:13.129 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, let's go deeper. 06:13.169 --> 06:15.133 [SPEAKER_00]: You both met untreated. 06:15.153 --> 06:16.275 [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I mean? 06:16.295 --> 06:21.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't even know this person, but you think you know this person because you have trauma dot. 06:21.986 --> 06:23.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Go deeper. 06:23.228 --> 06:25.891 [SPEAKER_00]: You are not page, I think it's page 74, 75. 06:26.872 --> 06:28.714 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not talking to the right people. 06:29.295 --> 06:32.679 [SPEAKER_00]: You're talking to someone who's so sick, you're so sick. 06:32.999 --> 06:35.542 [SPEAKER_00]: You both can't differentiate the true from the false. 06:36.023 --> 06:36.783 [SPEAKER_00]: And here it is. 06:37.084 --> 06:42.930 [SPEAKER_00]: You have no boundaries and you're becoming sexually involved or emotionally attached to people without knowing them, Justin. 06:44.332 --> 06:45.253 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is so true. 06:45.293 --> 06:53.202 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, there's a phrase that comes to mind 06:53.553 --> 06:54.555 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna find it here. 06:55.055 --> 06:56.538 [SPEAKER_01]: We saw the chemical, oh, here we go. 06:58.621 --> 07:03.188 [SPEAKER_01]: We could never know real union with another because we were addicted to the unreal. 07:03.669 --> 07:09.518 [SPEAKER_01]: We went for the chemistry, the connection that had the magic because it bypassed intimacy and true union. 07:09.879 --> 07:11.501 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what this is talking about. 07:11.561 --> 07:15.748 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm just going for, oh man, I felt the spark there, it's time to get in bed with that person. 07:16.189 --> 07:18.312 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's not, 07:18.292 --> 07:23.060 [SPEAKER_01]: this attachment that's that's that's what we're talking about having few healthy boundaries. 07:23.360 --> 07:25.664 [SPEAKER_01]: We get sexually involved without even knowing somebody. 07:25.824 --> 07:26.465 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they're just spark. 07:26.485 --> 07:27.206 [SPEAKER_01]: I got to get in bed. 07:27.387 --> 07:29.550 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so that's that's kind of my take on them. 07:29.710 --> 07:30.972 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's old programming. 07:30.992 --> 07:31.613 [SPEAKER_00]: So here we go. 07:31.633 --> 07:33.957 [SPEAKER_00]: Number two, let's just go that back and forth like this. 07:34.037 --> 07:43.793 [SPEAKER_00]: If you hear something from any of your books or anything 07:44.566 --> 07:48.073 [SPEAKER_00]: You have fear, go deeper, the family disease of alcoholism. 07:48.133 --> 07:50.117 [SPEAKER_00]: You're probably intergenerational like me. 07:50.558 --> 07:54.345 [SPEAKER_00]: My mom, I mean, I was in another country being adopted by another man. 07:54.425 --> 07:57.872 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was one years old, fearing abandonment and loneliness. 07:58.473 --> 08:04.785 [SPEAKER_00]: We stay in and return to painful, destructive relationships. 08:04.934 --> 08:08.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you returned to painful and destructive families. 08:09.140 --> 08:12.545 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of you returned to painful and destructive parents. 08:12.605 --> 08:14.448 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, Justin, I'm going to the Caribbean. 08:14.969 --> 08:19.776 [SPEAKER_00]: My dad, I keep returning this relationship. 08:19.796 --> 08:20.617 [SPEAKER_00]: This time it's done. 08:20.817 --> 08:22.580 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm taking him in the car parts that he needs. 08:23.081 --> 08:23.741 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's it. 08:24.242 --> 08:25.885 [SPEAKER_00]: My dad, no, he's a grown man. 08:25.905 --> 08:28.208 [SPEAKER_00]: He's 70, something I'm 52. 08:28.188 --> 08:28.649 [SPEAKER_00]: Done. 08:29.230 --> 08:30.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Concealing our dependency. 08:30.934 --> 08:31.876 [SPEAKER_00]: I need a daddy. 08:31.936 --> 08:33.780 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need anything, Nicky. 08:34.462 --> 08:40.695 [SPEAKER_00]: Concealing our dependency needs from ourselves and others growing more isolated and alienated. 08:40.775 --> 08:41.597 [SPEAKER_00]: No one loves me. 08:42.078 --> 08:43.441 [SPEAKER_00]: I know him gets me. 08:43.501 --> 08:44.804 [SPEAKER_00]: No one understands me. 08:44.864 --> 08:48.171 [SPEAKER_00]: From friends and loved ones ourselves and God. 08:48.151 --> 08:55.944 [SPEAKER_00]: You literally, you're so afraid that you will take anybody at the end of my disease. 08:56.926 --> 08:58.769 [SPEAKER_00]: My addiction, my rock bottom. 08:59.310 --> 09:01.313 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what was breathing in my bed.

09:01.334 --> 09:04.559 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even want to describe it on camera because it was disgusting. 09:04.659 --> 09:05.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Go on, Justin. 09:06.308 --> 09:18.043 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this, this isolation and feeling alienated causes me and others like me to seek the, quote unquote solution that has never rejected. 09:18.283 --> 09:21.187 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it could be that line of Coke. 09:21.247 --> 09:23.090 [SPEAKER_01]: It's never rejected me when I've snorted it. 09:23.210 --> 09:31.200 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it could be that glass of whiskey that has never rejected me as soon as I start drinking it. 09:31.661 --> 09:32.522 [SPEAKER_01]: It could be the porn. 09:32.542 --> 09:34.965 [SPEAKER_01]: I could go to porn porn has never rejected me. 09:34.945 --> 09:52.785 [SPEAKER_01]: no matter how much, how isolated or alienated I feel, but these are all counterfeit solutions, causing more abandonment, more loneliness, more desire to return to the painful and destructive relationships because, well, where I wasn't rejected, it still didn't fit the need, fill the need. 09:52.905 --> 09:54.068 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's my thoughts on that. 09:54.301 --> 09:54.822 [SPEAKER_00]: There we go. 09:54.922 --> 10:01.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Feet number three, fearing emotional or sexual deprivation, I have to have it. 10:01.779 --> 10:11.382 [SPEAKER_00]: See, fearing emotional or sexual deprivation, or like he said, any of the other drugs of choice and the money deprivation, we compulsively pursue. 10:12.391 --> 10:30.420 [SPEAKER_00]: going to the casino, going to the poor, we compulsively pursue the buffet, the gym, and involve ourselves in one relationship, one addiction, after another, sometimes having more than one sexual or emotionally ease on at a time. 10:30.840 --> 10:33.825 [SPEAKER_00]: My friend was over yesterday and we talked about the little black book. 10:33.805 --> 10:39.975 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're older and we're like, we always had that guy in the background just in case this guy didn't work out. 10:40.756 --> 10:46.805 [SPEAKER_00]: You see, this is how I know I'm recovered because there is no one ever in the background for me and my man. 10:47.106 --> 10:50.030 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the man I love and I will be with nobody. 10:50.230 --> 10:55.138 [SPEAKER_00]: My belief system has changed just and there's no one in the background except God. 10:55.118 --> 11:01.847 [SPEAKER_00]: literally I'd rather just like, you know, be the little noona in my little linen dress playing my harp for the rest of my life. 11:01.907 --> 11:05.992 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing in the background, not even all all just go be my chute nothing. 11:06.272 --> 11:06.993 [SPEAKER_00]: I need God. 11:07.294 --> 11:23.134 [SPEAKER_00]: So as this is what a lot of people do and and sometimes having more than one sexually liaison, well, you'll just put down your drugs, everybody out there and you'll pick up relationships and then you're in

a whole new disease, 11:23.772 --> 11:30.241 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the phrase that comes to mind is this one, and this is also from the white book of sex of hoax and anonymous. 11:30.281 --> 11:36.469 [SPEAKER_01]: We discovered that we could stop, that not feeding the hunger didn't kill us, that sex was indeed optional. 11:37.731 --> 11:43.899 [SPEAKER_01]: That is something that I think is a sex and love addict as a sex, whatever you may identify in the sexual field. 11:44.340 --> 11:51.990 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm in my addiction, that concept of sex was indeed optional is absolutely foreign. 11:51.970 --> 11:57.075 [SPEAKER_01]: But in recovery, I can look at that and go, okay, yeah, but I can live with or without it. 11:57.095 --> 11:59.798 [SPEAKER_01]: And I will not die without sex. 11:59.838 --> 12:02.681 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's that's kind of my take into consideration there. 12:03.242 --> 12:06.645 [SPEAKER_00]: And number four, we confuse love. 12:07.226 --> 12:08.808 [SPEAKER_00]: See, there's the big bookline. 12:09.088 --> 12:12.612 [SPEAKER_00]: Your addict life is your only normal one, doctors opinion. 12:12.912 --> 12:20.560 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't differentiate the 12:21.552 --> 12:27.561 [SPEAKER_00]: your addict life, your alcoholism existence, your family intergenerational disease. 12:27.921 --> 12:38.717 [SPEAKER_00]: You confuse love with neediness, physical or sexual attraction, pity and or the need to rescue or be rescued, Allenons to the wife people. 12:39.057 --> 12:51.475 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are listening to this right now, Justin, myself and David G, we have the roundtable podcast, we are going line by line to the wives and get in there 12:51.455 --> 12:56.725 [SPEAKER_00]: love with control, martyrdom, managing, manipulation. 12:56.745 --> 12:58.529 [SPEAKER_00]: I know your wife did it to you, man. 12:58.549 --> 13:00.032 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know you've done it to your wife. 13:00.112 --> 13:01.755 [SPEAKER_00]: We do it without even knowing. 13:01.775 --> 13:08.729 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've got to be careful, Justin, because we want to, we're you and I are breaking the curse for our grandchildren. 13:09.150 --> 13:11.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Come in, this is a big one. 13:11.182 --> 13:19.415 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a big one, and really I just, the thought of the way I read this, we confuse love with lust. 13:20.276 --> 13:25.905 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and those, they can't share a bad, they can't share a relationship. 13:27.548 --> 13:28.910 [SPEAKER_01]: It's destructive. 13:29.090 --> 13:31.975 [SPEAKER_01]: If, if what I feel is the need, 13:32.528 --> 13:34.570 [SPEAKER_01]: the physical and sexual attraction. 13:34.610 --> 13:40.076 [SPEAKER_01]: If I have to have that 100% of the time, it's empty. 13:40.096 --> 13:40.857 [SPEAKER_00]: It's empty. 13:41.178 --> 13:41.638 [SPEAKER_00]: There it is. 13:41.718 --> 13:43.480 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's, and that leads us into five. 13:44.021 --> 13:45.503 [SPEAKER_00]: We feel empty. 13:46.323 --> 13:47.705 [SPEAKER_00]: We, let's see, that's perfect. 13:47.745 --> 13:48.846 [SPEAKER_00]: Pray, it's empty. 13:48.886 --> 13:53.111 [SPEAKER_00]: So we feel empty and incomplete when we are alone. 13:53.171 --> 13:54.192 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like? 13:54.793 --> 13:59.278 [SPEAKER_00]: We feel empty and incomplete in the silence. 13:59.950 --> 14:10.697 [SPEAKER_00]: We feel empty and incomplete when we are not living on page 25 of our big book, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation. 14:11.037 --> 14:14.145 [SPEAKER_00]: If I am not blotting out and it's as subtle as, 14:15.121 --> 14:22.891 [SPEAKER_00]: some noise in the background like my mom will turn on the TV and it doesn't shut off until she sleeps because they need that noise in the background. 14:22.911 --> 14:32.504 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend and program who actually has to sleep with the TV on because the trauma from her from her childhood is so bad that she has to have that noise going all the time. 14:32.865 --> 14:33.586 [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I mean? 14:33.646 --> 14:35.929 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you feel empty and incomplete when you're alone. 14:35.949 --> 14:41.196 [SPEAKER_00]: You need some type of noise, some type of addiction, even though 14:41.176 --> 14:52.333 [SPEAKER_00]: We fear intimacy and commitment, even though we fear, okay, being in healthy relationships, we will continually search out. 14:53.478 --> 14:56.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, anything, anything, sexual contact relation. 14:57.003 --> 15:00.988 [SPEAKER_00]: So even though we fear intimacy and commitment, that's what we want more than anybody. 15:01.329 --> 15:03.071 [SPEAKER_00]: Justin, you do a lot of fear inventories. 15:03.111 --> 15:04.072 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the number one fear? 15:04.433 --> 15:05.555 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm afraid I'm gonna be alone. 15:05.595 --> 15:06.716 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm afraid no one's gonna love me. 15:06.736 --> 15:07.778 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm afraid I'm gonna die alone. 15:08.458 --> 15:12.724 [SPEAKER_00]: You will still search out for a, for a, go deeper. 15:13.165 --> 15:17.210 [SPEAKER_00]: Cause this was me, Justin, I'll take anybody at the end of my disease. 15:17.531 --> 15:22.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I didn't want to describe it, but within my bed, it's like, this is real remember once. 15:23.988 --> 15:46.857 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think this one is, I think you've covered it really well, the empty and incomplete when I'm alone, when in recovery, when not when when the connection with another human unhealthy human isn't driving me, I can be a perfect piece and ease alone, you know, but if I'm not there, I need to do some inventory, so. 15:46.837 --> 15:49.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that, is that a big promise on step five, Justin? 15:49.541 --> 15:53.246 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, perfect, like, we're talking about the characteristics of love. 15:53.286 --> 15:54.968 [SPEAKER_00]: Because a lot of us aren't sex addicts.

15:55.028 --> 15:56.651 [SPEAKER_00]: We will exchange sex for love. 15:57.151 --> 16:00.015 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and it's like, that's a step five promise. 16:00.035 --> 16:02.358 [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect peace and ease alone. 16:02.398 --> 16:07.365 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know Justin, and I know he's got a beautiful family, but I can tell you when you're in nature. 16:07.405 --> 16:08.707 [SPEAKER_00]: He likes to hike everybody. 16:08.727 --> 16:13.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Or if he's just sitting there watching his favorite team. 16:13.415 --> 16:15.997 [SPEAKER_00]: hit a whatever you call grand slammer home run. 16:16.338 --> 16:19.440 [SPEAKER_00]: He's probably just sitting there like, I mean, this is better than anything. 16:19.480 --> 16:21.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I see him smiling, yeah. 16:22.603 --> 16:22.964 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:22.984 --> 16:23.224 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:23.284 --> 16:26.627 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, oh, the greatest day of my life is when I got married and had babies. 16:26.647 --> 16:38.638 [SPEAKER_00]: These are all great moments, but to sit alone, just in love's nature, just to sit alone and see like, I know, you know, like the right now in my country, the crocuses are coming, the little, the things are popping up, right? 16:38.698 --> 16:43.422 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that leads us into number six, 16:43.402 --> 16:49.813 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I sponsor a lot of men, their hand is on their penis quicker than anything them in at their upset. 16:49.833 --> 16:51.035 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a master bait. 16:51.055 --> 16:53.178 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a, they sexualized guilt. 16:53.198 --> 17:01.091 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of women, they will, they will sexualize themselves because they're lonely. 17:01.111 --> 17:02.394 [SPEAKER_00]: They're angry. 17:02.414 --> 17:04.016 [SPEAKER_00]: They're shame. 17:04.056 --> 17:05.379 [SPEAKER_00]: They're in fear. 17:05.439 --> 17:06.861 [SPEAKER_00]: They're envious. 17:07.313 --> 17:16.085 [SPEAKER_00]: And so their attic life is their only normal one, and it's very much easier just to get under someone, to get over someone. 17:16.846 --> 17:24.175 [SPEAKER_00]: So we will use sex and emotional dependency as substitutions for nurturing care and support. 17:24.636 --> 17:32.106 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would rather go get under someone and have them, you know, rock at me into some weirdness, then sit. 17:32.086 --> 17:56.912 [SPEAKER_00]: and nurture and care my go go ahead people we'll talk about the inner child today you know it's not in the big book but I'll give it to you in nurturing your inner child what does that mean i'm gonna love and respect myself i'm gonna feed myself the best meal i'm gonna hold myself not master bait i'm gonna hold myself nurturing i'm gonna be gentle with my thought life i'm a good girl 17:56.892 --> 18:03.612 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, these kind of things Justin, what does it look like for you as a man to nurture? 18:04.368 --> 18:06.750 [SPEAKER_00]: nurturing care

and support for yourself. 18:06.831 --> 18:07.771 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like? 18:07.952 --> 18:10.234 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it looks a lot different than I thought. 18:11.195 --> 18:18.122 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought being a man meant being tough and mean and tougher than anybody in the room standing up to anybody and not back and down. 18:18.462 --> 18:22.346 [SPEAKER_01]: Well it does mean some of those things but it means it completely different than I thought. 18:23.728 --> 18:26.250 [SPEAKER_01]: You know I need to stand up and protect. 18:26.290 --> 18:27.371 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to be able to do that. 18:27.912 --> 18:30.915 [SPEAKER_01]: But when I 18:31.773 --> 18:36.143 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to masquerade that, well, what do I go to? 18:36.184 --> 18:46.007 [SPEAKER_01]: I go to, well, I could go to sex, I could go to porn, I could go to masturbation, I could go to, well, I could go to gambling, I could go to food, you know, I could go to all of these different places. 18:46.548 --> 18:50.237 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I use those things too, 18:50.217 --> 18:53.581 [SPEAKER_01]: get out of the stress, guilt, loneliness, anger, shame, fear, and envy. 18:53.642 --> 18:56.325 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll guess what all of those things are part of every day life. 18:56.886 --> 18:58.007 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what step-tens all about. 18:58.027 --> 19:09.002 [SPEAKER_01]: When I see those instead of immediately going to sexualization of it, in this instance, or seeking somebody out to help alleviate that, 19:08.982 --> 19:15.570 [SPEAKER_01]: if I instead turn to the power greater than self, then that doesn't become as huge an issue. 19:16.131 --> 19:17.353 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so my thoughts on that. 19:17.533 --> 19:17.933 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 19:18.013 --> 19:19.675 [SPEAKER_00]: We use sex number seven. 19:19.736 --> 19:21.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Seven and eight are kind of combined. 19:22.018 --> 19:23.480 [SPEAKER_00]: We use sex. 19:24.321 --> 19:28.627 [SPEAKER_00]: We're using our bodies and emotional and emotions. 19:29.007 --> 19:34.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we use sex and emotional involvement to manipulate and control others. 19:34.514 --> 19:36.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, ladies. 19:36.505 --> 19:43.895 [SPEAKER_00]: You know you do that men, you'll use your bodies, you'll use your, you'll use your emotions to manipulate. 19:44.416 --> 19:45.677 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Nicky, I'm too old to have sex. 19:45.737 --> 19:47.820 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you'll use your emotions old lady. 19:47.860 --> 19:49.282 [SPEAKER_00]: Call your mother. 19:49.322 --> 19:49.863 [SPEAKER_00]: She's old. 19:49.963 --> 19:50.484 [SPEAKER_00]: Go grab. 19:50.524 --> 19:51.545 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I'll do that too. 19:51.906 --> 19:53.628 [SPEAKER_00]: Angel, I'm going to my son's angel, that's his name. 19:53.648 --> 19:54.389 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll eat that on all. 19:54.750 --> 19:56.472 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll use words. 19:56.452 --> 19:59.137 [SPEAKER_00]: to

emotionally manipulate and control my son. 19:59.197 --> 20:00.539 [SPEAKER_00]: Anybody else doing that? 20:00.940 --> 20:08.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Or how about A, you'll become immobilized or seriously distracted by romantic or sexual obsessions and fantasies. 20:08.953 --> 20:12.199 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody that I've sponsored is a fantasy addict. 20:12.179 --> 20:35.453 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't met one that's not just in everybody I have sponsored is not only a fantasy addict because that number eight when you get distracted by romantic and sexual obsessions and fantasies, your fantasy addict, but when you use sex and emotional involvement to manipulate and control others, your validation addict, like do you see how many addictions there are, you know? 20:35.686 --> 20:42.801 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love how you brought in this fantasy thing, you know, for me initially the whenever I heard the word fantasy, it was always okay. 20:42.821 --> 20:44.164 [SPEAKER_01]: It has to be a sexual fantasy. 20:44.184 --> 20:47.772 [SPEAKER_01]: It has to be, you know that, but fantasy is just 20:48.292 --> 20:57.062 [SPEAKER_01]: living in non-reality, living in fantasy world, it could be, I'm dreaming of living the lifestyle of a billionaire. 20:57.182 --> 21:04.570 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm dreaming of living the hellish lifestyle of the worst possible outcome of my thoughts. 21:04.630 --> 21:05.511 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a fantasy. 21:06.512 --> 21:11.818 [SPEAKER_01]: It could be great, it could be terrible, but it's not real, and I think that's where... 21:11.798 --> 21:23.479 [SPEAKER_01]: the one-day-to-time thing has to live so that dwelling in the potential and likely not real future trips me up. 21:23.695 --> 21:29.345 [SPEAKER_00]: That's page 66, Justin, where it says, let me just try and get to it real quick, because I love that you bring it up. 21:29.405 --> 21:42.970 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone thinks that the fantasy is like a living like a rock star lifestyle on a yacht being, you know, being 21:42.950 --> 21:46.738 [SPEAKER_00]: I squander the hours that would have been worthwhile on page 66. 21:46.938 --> 21:50.305 [SPEAKER_00]: I squander the decade worrying about my daughter. 21:50.365 --> 21:57.119 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she's going to live under the bridge, become a drug addict, to have 10 babies, diseases, none of that's true. 21:57.159 --> 22:03.051 [SPEAKER_00]: She's living in Nevada City, California, and I'm trying to convince her to become the mayor, like because it's such a cute town. 22:03.031 --> 22:04.355 [SPEAKER_00]: and she's got the best guy. 22:04.515 --> 22:05.518 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a grand bet. 22:05.538 --> 22:06.200 [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I mean? 22:06.240 --> 22:11.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's crazy that those fantasies aren't always beautiful. 22:11.113 --> 22:12.116 [SPEAKER_00]: They're called nightmares. 22:12.517 --> 22:18.373 [SPEAKER_00]: Number nine, we avoid responsibility for ourselves by attaching ourselves. 22:18.353 -->

22:21.118 [SPEAKER_00]: to people who are emotionally unavailable. 22:21.479 --> 22:24.204 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me read that again for the codependence. 22:24.644 --> 22:28.672 [SPEAKER_00]: You people are avoiding being responsible for self. 22:29.353 --> 22:30.215 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you do that? 22:30.555 --> 22:36.987 [SPEAKER_00]: You attach yourself to people, governments, organizations who are emotionally 22:36.967 --> 22:37.828 [SPEAKER_00]: unavailable. 22:38.269 --> 22:41.294 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll even attach yourself to your untreated family. 22:41.314 --> 22:43.257 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I said I'm going to see my dad. 22:43.558 --> 22:44.940 [SPEAKER_00]: He's emotionally unavailable. 22:45.000 --> 22:47.645 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to stop attaching myself to that whole thing. 22:47.665 --> 22:49.448 [SPEAKER_00]: I've tried for years. 22:49.908 --> 22:51.471 [SPEAKER_00]: My side of the street is clean. 22:52.092 --> 22:56.099 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing left to do except take him the car parts and have a wonderful time. 22:56.259 --> 22:56.860 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that simple. 22:57.361 --> 22:59.625 [SPEAKER_00]: You see, I can, because I'm armed with the facts. 22:59.645 --> 23:00.466 [SPEAKER_00]: There's another thing. 23:00.827 --> 23:03.531 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you guys armed with the facts about yourself? 23:03.511 --> 23:06.415 [SPEAKER_00]: Because if you're not, you will be living in number 10. 23:06.815 --> 23:10.861 [SPEAKER_00]: You will stay enslaved to emotional dependency. 23:11.482 --> 23:18.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Romantic intrigue or compulsive sexual or just addiction activities. 23:18.812 --> 23:33.231 [SPEAKER_00]: If you do not get responsible for self and get armed with the facts page 18 about yourself, you will say enslaved to emotional dependency, romantic intrigue and compulsive sexual activities. 23:33.464 --> 23:34.225 [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely. 23:34.285 --> 23:38.954 [SPEAKER_01]: And this attaching ourselves to those two people who are emotionally unavailable. 23:39.294 --> 23:44.483 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the greatest truths I've ever heard in my life is you are who you roll with. 23:44.844 --> 23:49.953 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm attaching myself to people who are emotionally unavailable and expecting them to feel me, guess what? 23:50.373 --> 23:55.422 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm emotionally unavailable and they're getting nothing out of me, they're it's an empty, 23:55.402 --> 24:02.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Trans, transactional, not even relationship, just counterfeit connection. 24:02.458 --> 24:06.287 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's nothing there, both parties, all parties are emotionally unavailable. 24:06.628 --> 24:13.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And I become more and more emotionally unavailable in those types of relationships, because I am who I roll with. 24:13.728 --> 24:17.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Download, it's called the non-character players, okay? 24:17.592 --> 24:21.596 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, video game guys and girls, they're the NPCs. 24:21.937 --> 24:23.478 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just walking around. 24:23.539 --> 24:26.702 [SPEAKER_00]: They're the zombies, walking dead fans, they're not human. 24:27.222 --> 24:31.047 [SPEAKER_00]: Number 11, to avoid feeling vulnerable. 24:31.187 --> 24:37.513 [SPEAKER_00]: We may retreat from all intimate involvement, mistaking sexual and emotional anorexia for recovery. 24:37.754 --> 24:39.335 [SPEAKER_00]: Justin, you and I see that all the time. 24:39.596 --> 24:43.600 [SPEAKER_00]: They're sober for years, they're not in a relationship, but I'm recovered. 24:43.580 --> 24:45.223 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not what God wants for you. 24:45.283 --> 24:47.408 [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful man. 24:47.448 --> 24:49.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful woman out there. 24:49.672 --> 24:53.139 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go out and serve somebody. 24:53.179 --> 24:55.904 [SPEAKER_00]: There's somebody beautiful and lonely wanting you. 24:55.964 --> 25:00.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you know what I mean just if I see these people and they've just been so damaged and they go I'm recovered. 25:01.014 --> 25:01.455 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're not. 25:01.495 --> 25:02.938 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just avoiding life. 25:04.235 --> 25:05.476 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone loves you out there. 25:05.676 --> 25:08.639 [SPEAKER_00]: Good out there, go, go and join the lawn bowling team. 25:09.099 --> 25:11.762 [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody, pickleball is the biggest thing right now. 25:11.782 --> 25:14.164 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, pickleball, what the, is that? 25:14.584 --> 25:16.806 [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone plays pickleball just in your lab. 25:16.826 --> 25:18.768 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know it's like, wait, what is pickleball? 25:18.808 --> 25:23.492 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone just like, someone call me and like, I wanna take lessons, I wanna just sound so fun. 25:23.512 --> 25:24.994 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanna little pickleball outfit. 25:25.434 --> 25:34.242 [SPEAKER_00]: And stop avoiding life, get out there, get a senior, walk someone's dog, don't hide out your basement, 25:34.222 --> 25:38.207 [SPEAKER_00]: Sober for 16 years in your mother's basement, that's not recovery. 25:38.339 --> 25:40.142 [SPEAKER_00]: And then that's how. 25:40.202 --> 25:40.523 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 25:40.543 --> 25:42.967 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know a lot of people like that because they're afraid. 25:43.107 --> 25:44.229 [SPEAKER_00]: They're so afraid. 25:44.469 --> 25:45.611 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no God in fear. 25:45.631 --> 26:04.482 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to retwelled and then Justin why don't you close us out also with I think you have the signs of recovery there because I mean the signs of recovery are all the promises in the big book, but we're we're breaking this down because a lot of my friends and your friends just and this is our primary addictions and we know this very well, but we sponsor. 26:05.761 --> 26:10.488 [SPEAKER_00]: dry drugs, basically, or even allenons that are like, I have no problem.

26:10.528 --> 26:11.229 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm allenon. 26:11.249 --> 26:13.132 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're an untreated fantasy addict. 26:13.152 --> 26:15.776 [SPEAKER_00]: You're an untreated validation addict. 26:15.796 --> 26:18.620 [SPEAKER_00]: You're an untreated all of this. 26:18.660 --> 26:19.421 [SPEAKER_00]: So here we go. 26:19.461 --> 26:20.803 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the drum roll. 26:20.823 --> 26:30.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Because this is what I do to everyone, including Justin B. Nikki Amma assigns magical qualities to others. 26:30.922 --> 27:00.338 [SPEAKER_00]: you understand like even my even my brother here like Justin B's perfect he doesn't mess up and I don't know one time you did something and it was it was your procrastination I know it was because like what we have no tapes left you know how I am and I didn't say that love but yeah all assigned magical qualities to him to my kids to my mother to my government how could my government do that how could my neighbors they're they're perfect they're young they're cute they're great couples i'm 27:00.318 --> 27:01.259 [SPEAKER_00]: You see what I mean? 27:01.279 --> 27:04.083 [SPEAKER_00]: I just assign all these magical qualities to others. 27:05.024 --> 27:06.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Nikki idealizes them. 27:07.387 --> 27:14.396 [SPEAKER_00]: I pursue them and then I blame them for not fulfilling my fantasies and expectations. 27:14.456 --> 27:16.338 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is comedy hour, isn't it? 27:16.378 --> 27:18.401 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, this is everybody. 27:18.441 --> 27:27.152 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a comedy show, but it is because it's like, then I blame people the world for not living up to my sick. 27:28.600 --> 27:29.241 [SPEAKER_00]: mind. 27:30.081 --> 27:32.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Justin, I'm just going to be quiet and you take us out for the rest. 27:33.344 --> 27:34.125 [SPEAKER_00]: I love you guys. 27:34.766 --> 27:35.726 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, yeah, thank you, Nicky. 27:36.667 --> 27:42.973 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, one of the things that I try and make clear to those people that I sponsor is, look, I'm a human just like you. 27:43.053 --> 27:44.554 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a disaster just like you. 27:45.135 --> 27:50.720 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just, you know, a little bit, I've been walking on this path of recovery a little bit longer than you. 27:50.760 --> 27:52.542 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the only difference between me and you. 27:53.002 --> 27:58.607 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you think I'm going to be perfect, if you think 27:58.587 --> 28:08.074 [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be highly disappointed, and I think that's super important that I give the same Grace to other people and say, hey 28:08.662 --> 28:33.533 [SPEAKER_01]: I recognize that no matter what position you hold, no matter what, how, how cool I think you are, you know, there's a, I think there's only one person in the world that I would probably fall over myself if I was in their presence and that's John L. way, who is the quarterback for the Denver Broncos way back in the 80s and 90s and, and if I were to meet him in person, I think I'd fall all over myself and assign these magical qualities to him. 28:33.553 --> 28:35.395 [SPEAKER_01]: Now what I'm grateful for, 28:35.662 --> 28:40.612 [SPEAKER_01]: is that in his post-retirement life, I've seen that he's not a superhero. 28:42.054 --> 28:45.321 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'd still fall all over myself for him, but I've seen that he's not perfect. 28:45.361 --> 28:50.751 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I recognize that, I remember the first time I thought, oh man, my hero is not Superman. 28:52.334 --> 29:02.893 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's such a good thing to just not assign magical qualities to any mortal, we're all messes, we're all just walking through this life. 29:03.313 --> 29:09.685 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, Nikki, I'm so glad that we walked through these 12 characteristics of a sex and love addict. 29:09.745 --> 29:14.573 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to recommend that we go through the signs of recovery with our next recording with that. 29:14.633 --> 29:16.637 [SPEAKER_01]: So come back next time. 29:16.617 --> 29:41.629 [SPEAKER_01]: dive into these these characteristics I'll put them in the show notes at this podcast when we get it out there dive into them where are you and maybe it's not about sex and love maybe it's about well I think it probably is about love and relationships at some level but dive into where you are in these things and see what needs to be changed and then we'll get into the recovery next time so come back next time 29:41.609 --> 29:47.579 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's gonna it's gonna be good and it's gonna be worth your time just like your worth your time and efforts. 29:48.182 --> 29:50.252 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll see you next time.

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