TRANSCRIPTION 🔗
WEBVTT
00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:35.100
Hi.
00:00:35.100 --> 00:00:35.760
Hello.
00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:42.719
Welcome back to Queer Beloved Podcast for all things lgbtq plus weddings, love and beyond.
00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:45.000
I'm your host Anna Ayo.
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:46.200
She her pronouns.
00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:52.710
I'm the owner of Wildly Connected Photography and I'm currently in Minneapolis.
00:00:52.820 --> 00:00:58.165
I say that because I have lots of travel plan this year, but Minneapolis is home so.
00:00:59.495 --> 00:01:00.545
Hello everybody.
00:01:00.605 --> 00:01:01.745
Hope you're doing well.
00:01:02.285 --> 00:01:05.135
If you're in Minneapolis like me, it's been hot.
00:01:05.415 --> 00:01:10.664
So hope you all are hydrated and getting excited for summer.
00:01:10.734 --> 00:01:19.615
I know that for many of us summer also means that pride is quickly approaching and I am very excited for that.
00:01:19.645 --> 00:01:25.885
And hopefully you are as well, even though yeah, pride is.
00:01:25.960 --> 00:01:27.849
I'm feeling rough this year.
00:01:27.849 --> 00:01:37.420
But anyway, moving along this week on No homo, we are discussing Polari.
00:01:38.050 --> 00:01:41.680
I'm not entirely sure if I'm saying that right, so please correct me if so.
00:01:42.129 --> 00:01:51.710
But if you're like, Anna, what the f is that Polari was originally actually spelled a little bit.
00:01:52.085 --> 00:02:03.034
Differently, but it refers to coded slang used primarily by British gay men to communicate with one another at a time when homosexuality was illegal in the United Kingdom.
00:02:03.634 --> 00:02:07.055
It was not formally decriminalized.
00:02:07.155 --> 00:02:07.814
Excuse me.
00:02:08.295 --> 00:02:20.444
This was not formally decriminalized until 1967, so by speaking code with one another, it allowed queer people of the 19th and early 20th centuries to form community and find intimacy.
00:02:21.375 --> 00:02:33.944
Many Polari terms take the firm of nonsensical sounding, rhyming slang with words often derived from cockney, Yiddish, and the Ramani language, and sometimes the words are still used today.
00:02:34.004 --> 00:02:42.344
So I will link an article that gives you some really fun examples of these terms.
00:02:42.435 --> 00:02:44.144
For example, one of them was even just like.
00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:45.659
Betty for a drink.
00:02:45.689 --> 00:02:46.829
I mean, how fun is that?
00:02:47.340 --> 00:02:56.159
And if we were to put a sentence all together, it sounds something like vada, the dolly dish, which translates into check out the hot guy.
00:02:56.639 --> 00:02:57.689
I mean, come on.
00:02:57.689 --> 00:02:59.340
Like, why aren't we still using this?
00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:00.449
This is so fun.
00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:08.189
Or maybe we need to create a modern one, one that's maybe also a little bit more.
00:03:09.585 --> 00:03:12.224
I guess we'll just say, not just focus on the gay men.
00:03:12.555 --> 00:03:21.284
I did read that, you know, lesbians also use this a little bit, but that it kind of has roots from the gay male community.
00:03:21.284 --> 00:03:24.194
So, so fun.
00:03:24.294 --> 00:03:32.034
Highly encourage you to look at some of the words and maybe incorporate some into your everyday lingo if you're, if you're feeling it.
00:03:32.125 --> 00:03:32.574
So.
00:03:33.324 --> 00:03:35.604
Thanks for joining me on No Homo this week.
00:03:35.664 --> 00:03:48.634
Also, if you are just tuning in, just to clarify the no, homo is KNOW and we are all on this journey to learn more about our culture and things like that together.
00:03:48.734 --> 00:03:50.474
So yeah, thanks for joining me on that.
00:03:50.894 --> 00:03:55.365
All right, so this week's episode, let's get into it.
00:03:55.995 --> 00:04:06.074
So whether you're a couple planning your wedding or a vendor, you've probably witnessed or experienced something that made you think, Ooh, what do I do here?
00:04:06.474 --> 00:04:21.865
We're talking everything from small interactions or microaggressions to wow that really like, really should have been in inside thought moments and how to handle these moments with care and with courage.
00:04:22.629 --> 00:04:31.750
And I'm gonna be talking about this from both perspectives, both how couples can respond and how vendors can step up and hold each other accountable.
00:04:32.829 --> 00:04:39.850
And then kind of also ending with a segment on how to deal with this in real time, because I think that's really important.
00:04:39.850 --> 00:04:45.050
And this is something that's been a lot on my mind a lot recently.
00:04:45.150 --> 00:04:52.829
And I think, you know, obviously these are things that I, this is my job, this is my everyday life.
00:04:52.829 --> 00:04:56.009
Like these are things that I, that I pick up on a lot.
00:04:56.009 --> 00:04:59.909
And so I think that it's just really important we finally have a conversation about it.
00:05:00.449 --> 00:05:05.730
And just one other quick note is that I think, I think it's important to note that.
00:05:06.314 --> 00:05:26.415
A lot of the examples that I say naturally obviously come from a photographer's perspective, and a lot of these examples apply to vendors that interact with couples a lot more heavily, such as planners, photographers, videographers, DJs, things of that sort, but.
00:05:27.014 --> 00:05:43.125
Even if you have a role that isn't the most public facing or like by the couple 24 7, I still think you should do your part in speaking up for the couple and incredibly important playing your role in shaping our wedding culture behind the scenes.
00:05:43.154 --> 00:05:52.644
So, if you're a vendor listening and you're like, well, I'm not always like by the couple or whatever, like, this episode is still for you and I hope.
00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:57.139
That you stick around and can get some things from it as well.
00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:02.480
So couples, if you're
Load full transcript
still with me, this part is for you.
00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:17.550
So, I think, you know, I've, I have previous episodes that are all about like red flags in the wedding industry, so definitely go check that one out if you're interested in learning a little bit more just about what to look out for.
00:06:18.584 --> 00:06:35.084
But I did think it was applicable for this week to re-mention that you as a couple, I think that it's really important for you to, to have your own personal boundaries and limits and expectations for what feels good to you as a couple.
00:06:35.204 --> 00:06:44.144
And I think this is so important because of course every couple is so unique and you have to pull in things like.
00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:54.629
Your current situation, your life experiences, also where you're living and what queer culture and gay marriage is like in your specific state or city.
00:06:54.959 --> 00:07:09.329
So before all else, I just again, want to encourage couples like before you get into like the excitement and the depths of wedding planning, like I just really encourage you guys to sit down and chat like.
00:07:10.904 --> 00:07:17.415
What is our capacity for, for working with folks who are maybe not exactly on the same page as us?
00:07:17.534 --> 00:07:25.725
And because every couple is so unique and has different lived experiences and presents differently, it's gonna look really differently for every couple.
00:07:26.295 --> 00:07:32.084
So yeah, I just think it's important to chat about that and, and also specify.
00:07:32.925 --> 00:07:41.754
What that looks like if it's an interaction that happens over email or if it's something that happens in person, like what's your capacity?
00:07:41.754 --> 00:07:43.134
How do you wanna respond?
00:07:43.254 --> 00:07:57.714
And it's totally okay for every couple to have different capacities and like some couples just truly being like, we are really nervous because we have X, Y, and Z reasons, and therefore capacity is just super low and we don't wanna put ourself.
00:07:58.269 --> 00:07:59.290
Out there too much.
00:07:59.290 --> 00:08:04.360
And some couples are like, we have, you know, we feel super solid in who we are.
00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:05.230
We feel safe.
00:08:05.230 --> 00:08:06.939
We have a community around us.
00:08:07.029 --> 00:08:10.959
We're willing to like, put ourselves out there to kind of see what will happen okay.
00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:18.040
So for couples you know, confronting vendors, let's say for example.
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:23.079
There is a photographer, a videographer, whose work you're really interested in.
00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:25.209
Like it really speaks to you.
00:08:25.209 --> 00:08:26.259
You vibe with it.
00:08:26.259 --> 00:08:35.019
You're like, I love this person and I haven't like super seen a lot of other people who do this, but when I click on their website, there's not really inclusive language.
00:08:35.019 --> 00:08:37.330
I don't really see any couples that look like us.
00:08:38.379 --> 00:08:39.700
I'm not sure what to do.
00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:45.399
This is where that earlier piece comes into play because for some couples that's.
00:08:45.685 --> 00:08:53.605
You know, they're just like, I really don't wanna put myself out there and like email this person just to hear them say no.
00:08:53.845 --> 00:08:55.975
And other couples listen.
00:08:56.034 --> 00:08:58.435
They might be like, all right girl, let's go.
00:08:58.884 --> 00:09:00.024
Let's, let's reach out.
00:09:00.024 --> 00:09:01.105
Let's see what happens.
00:09:01.105 --> 00:09:02.514
And they might say something like.
00:09:03.205 --> 00:09:07.945
Hey, just a quick note, we're a queer couple and actually one of us uses they them pronouns.
00:09:08.215 --> 00:09:15.294
We'd love to work with someone who affirms and celebrates the LGBTQ plus community, but if that's not you, just let us know.
00:09:15.414 --> 00:09:22.554
Like, I think that there are ways that you can quote unquote confront vendors like that.
00:09:22.804 --> 00:09:30.245
That kind of lets them know where you're at and like, I feel that an email written like that is very much like.
00:09:30.875 --> 00:09:32.825
Hey, this is who we are and we're not ashamed of that.
00:09:32.825 --> 00:09:35.825
And like, if that's not you, that's fine, just tell us.
00:09:35.945 --> 00:09:42.855
So yeah, I think when vendors are giving red flags I.
00:09:43.995 --> 00:09:46.995
Yeah, just kind of figure out where you fall on that spectrum.
00:09:47.335 --> 00:09:55.965
But I felt like it was really important throughout this episode to also address things that happen in real time or in person.
00:09:56.294 --> 00:10:08.054
Obviously things that happen online or in Facebook groups or over email, like those things suck and like aggressions of, of any form in any place should never take place.
00:10:08.054 --> 00:10:09.495
Of course, however.
00:10:10.590 --> 00:10:14.309
Real time in an in-person interaction is just next level.
00:10:14.309 --> 00:10:18.269
And so I felt like that was imp important to, to mention.
00:10:18.629 --> 00:10:25.779
So, I will talk a little bit more about when harm happens in the moment in the last part of this episode.
00:10:25.779 --> 00:10:27.820
So definitely stick around for that.
00:10:29.154 --> 00:10:36.504
I also wanted to mention the scenario that I have heard couples discuss, and so it felt important to share.
00:10:36.774 --> 00:10:45.774
So what if a vendor starts out with no red flags, but you progressively start to see them or they progressively are getting worse?
00:10:45.825 --> 00:10:52.720
This felt important because it brought to mind a story of a wedding from a couple years ago.
00:10:53.169 --> 00:10:53.919
And.
00:10:54.909 --> 00:11:00.129
So this couple, I think it's also important to note that this was actually a straight couple.
00:11:00.490 --> 00:11:04.120
And normally that might not matter, but you'll see why.
00:11:04.990 --> 00:11:07.210
So I was working with this couple, they're great.
00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:14.570
They were working with a planner who was helping them, like plan and coordinate and also was doing their flowers.
00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:16.159
At first, like.
00:11:17.029 --> 00:11:20.149
I think we were all kind of like, oh yeah, you know, she seems great.
00:11:20.149 --> 00:11:22.309
Like, seems on top of it, whatever.
00:11:22.939 --> 00:11:25.700
Come to find out from the couple.
00:11:27.169 --> 00:11:32.269
That this planner had started making weird remarks to them.
00:11:32.269 --> 00:11:39.580
Once everything was locked in and she saw we were working together and I was starting to plan engagement photos with them and things like that.
00:11:39.909 --> 00:11:45.279
She reached out to the couple and was like, like.
00:11:45.564 --> 00:11:48.715
I don't understand why you're working with this photographer.
00:11:48.715 --> 00:11:57.384
Like she is, you know, promoting all this queer stuff and like, she started making jokes like, oh ha ha, like, is one of you trans?
00:11:57.384 --> 00:11:58.945
And I just don't know about it.
00:11:58.945 --> 00:12:00.715
Like, wouldn't that be so funny?
00:12:01.254 --> 00:12:08.134
And so she just progressively started making more and more comments like that through leading up to their wedding.
00:12:08.524 --> 00:12:19.774
To the point that like once we got to the wedding I was like, let me have so many backup plans in place that I don't have to see this planner because Wow.
00:12:20.404 --> 00:12:31.865
And you know, everything ended up being fine and she actually ended up moving her business to another state and, you know, it was what it was.
00:12:31.865 --> 00:12:40.745
But I, I share that story because like, whether or not it's, you know, an openly queer couple or not, like this affects everybody.
00:12:41.195 --> 00:12:48.125
And yeah, sorry, I'm just still thinking about the comment she said and how wild that was.
00:12:48.514 --> 00:12:51.215
But this affects everybody.
00:12:51.215 --> 00:12:53.855
And so when we have.
00:12:54.154 --> 00:13:03.754
Uh, when we confront vendors and we start shaping this culture to be just better across the board, like the, it makes everybody's lives better.
00:13:03.754 --> 00:13:04.115
Okay.
00:13:04.115 --> 00:13:06.335
So this is important.
00:13:06.394 --> 00:13:10.745
And of course, I know we're focusing on the queer community here, like, that's so important.
00:13:10.745 --> 00:13:17.554
But I just wanted to say like, like with most things that impact the queer community, like it also impacts everybody.
00:13:17.554 --> 00:13:24.784
And so like we should all have incentive to, feel that we can call vendors out and, and make our culture better.
00:13:24.784 --> 00:13:46.054
So I know that was a little bit of a tangent, but on the note of vendors kind of getting worse over time, I think that if you are a couple, I think this is a really, really great time to lean on others around you, whether that's people in your wedding party, family members, or other vendors like.
00:13:46.554 --> 00:13:50.544
I think you can call people in to help you chat with this person.
00:13:50.995 --> 00:14:07.644
And I say that because, yeah, I'm, I'm planning my own wedding right now, and I just, I can't imagine like being in this position of, yes, of course things are stressful, but also like, oh my gosh, this is like so exciting.
00:14:07.644 --> 00:14:11.934
Like this time in my life is so special planning something that.
00:14:12.745 --> 00:14:16.195
It's so exciting and I can't wait to marry my person.
00:14:17.154 --> 00:14:32.245
And then amidst that excitement and everything else that comes with a wedding, you're having to talk to a vendor about the language they're using or how they're addressing you, or something they said or did like.
00:14:33.460 --> 00:14:35.590
That just feels like not the vibe.
00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:55.899
So I think that if, if it's getting to a point where you feel you need to say something, but it's not like fully a point where you're like, I don't wanna work with this person, I'd really encourage you to, you know, talk to, like, I can't speak for every vendor across the board.
00:14:56.439 --> 00:15:03.580
But I know for me personally, if a couple approached me and they said, Hey, our planner's starting to like make us feel really uncomfortable.
00:15:03.580 --> 00:15:06.549
Like, do you know anything about this?
00:15:06.549 --> 00:15:07.960
Do you have any advice?
00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.240
Would you be willing to talk to them?
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:11.320
Absolutely.
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.799
Like.
00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:17.500
I, I think that there are so many vendors who would be like, yes, let me talk to this person.
00:15:17.529 --> 00:15:27.220
Let me suss out what's going on, and make you not make you subject to, to hearing why they're saying all of these things.
00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:27.610
Right?
00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:38.019
Because I think also sometimes confrontations can like be super good and straightforward and healthy, and sometimes they can unfortunately lead to.
00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:45.879
You finding out some other things and if that, if the latter is the case, like I don't want you to be subject to that.
00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.070
So I guess really what I'm saying is.
00:15:49.225 --> 00:15:52.764
Yeah, let, we will just run with the planner or coordinator, for example.
00:15:53.095 --> 00:16:00.684
Could you reach out to your photographer or whatever other vendor you're working with that you feel you really trust?
00:16:00.924 --> 00:16:03.835
Can you loop them in and just see if they have any advice?
00:16:04.384 --> 00:16:14.495
And if not that, can you, maybe it's a parent or like a super close friend, can you just be like, Hey, I'm gonna give you this person's email address, like.
00:16:15.245 --> 00:16:19.715
Are you willing to
just chat with this person and kind of see what's up?
00:16:19.804 --> 00:16:21.304
I think that's totally okay.
00:16:21.304 --> 00:16:24.335
And you're allowed to lean on your community in times like this.
00:16:24.335 --> 00:16:42.304
So, I do have, you know, episodes out there too particularly in the Red Flag episode, which I can link in the show notes that if it gets to a point and you need to cut ties with somebody, like I chatted a little bit more about that in that episode and like.
00:16:42.904 --> 00:16:47.855
Know that it's not feasible for everybody, or sometimes financially it feels like too much of a loss.
00:16:47.855 --> 00:17:04.535
But if that's not exactly the case for you, like I just want to affirm you that do what's best for you, and you're not gonna wanna work with somebody who is making you stressed out on a super happy day in your life.
00:17:04.535 --> 00:17:08.015
So just keep that in mind and yeah.
00:17:09.154 --> 00:17:26.455
So, kind of wrapping up this one for the couples in the aftermath of working with a, a vendor who said some things or did some things, I think that one, if you feel so comfortable, I think that you should leave a review.
00:17:26.545 --> 00:17:33.684
And I know that many people in, in my generation are similar gen generations.
00:17:34.345 --> 00:17:36.205
I think we have a tendency to.
00:17:37.315 --> 00:17:41.275
Not want to leave poor reviews because we don't want to be quote Karen's.
00:17:41.785 --> 00:17:43.825
And that's super valid and I get that.
00:17:43.825 --> 00:17:50.125
But I think that there are real ways to leave reviews that are honest and they're not.
00:17:51.115 --> 00:18:03.175
You know, like if someone says something homophobic or does something homophobic on your wedding day, that already gets rid of all the careness because it's not like you're complaining that your croissant was too dry.
00:18:03.295 --> 00:18:03.625
Okay.
00:18:03.655 --> 00:18:07.465
Like we're not on the same level there, so there's already that.
00:18:07.775 --> 00:18:14.345
But I also think that there are ways you can share reviews that are done with care that also.
00:18:14.840 --> 00:18:19.400
Openly share with other people what your actual experience was.
00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:25.550
And I think that's actually really important, like community, helping community.
00:18:25.970 --> 00:18:32.030
I know that it's sounds so cheesy when I ask for reviews and sometimes I feel bad about it.
00:18:32.030 --> 00:18:35.630
But of course like I wanna know that a couple had a great time.
00:18:35.630 --> 00:18:41.390
But like genuinely, I also know that like reviews really do help future people out.
00:18:41.390 --> 00:18:41.810
Like.
00:18:42.455 --> 00:18:45.185
Think about when you're looking to like book someone for anything.
00:18:45.185 --> 00:18:47.975
Like it could just be someone coming to do plumbing.
00:18:47.975 --> 00:18:50.375
Like reviews are really helpful.
00:18:50.375 --> 00:18:55.115
Like even just from the standpoint of like, okay, I wanna make sure this person's not creepy, like.
00:18:56.255 --> 00:18:57.845
Community helping community.
00:18:57.845 --> 00:18:59.735
Like I think reviews really do that.
00:18:59.735 --> 00:19:05.345
And so if you're comfortable, I would encourage you to do that with this, with this vendor.
00:19:05.345 --> 00:19:10.065
And hopefully it actually helps them in the long run and helps them learn from the experience.
00:19:10.095 --> 00:19:15.825
But if not, at least you are helping out future couples not have to go through what you did.
00:19:16.395 --> 00:19:28.825
I also just wanted to throw out if you did book this couple somewhere, like the Knot or Wedding Wire or Zola or like a booking platform like that typically there are options to report the vendor.
00:19:29.275 --> 00:19:53.515
And so, or for example, if you hired a DJ through a company where there is multiple DJs working under one name, any situation like that, I think you totally have the right to report the vendor or let somebody know because yeah, I think that a lot of businesses really care about how couples are treated and they won't know if you don't share with'em.
00:19:53.545 --> 00:19:58.135
So if you feel safe and comfortable in doing that, I think that's totally the move.
00:19:59.335 --> 00:20:01.015
All right, moving on.
00:20:01.045 --> 00:20:02.755
Vendors, I'm talking to you.
00:20:02.755 --> 00:20:08.275
So listen in vendors, peers, friends, let's get real.
00:20:09.025 --> 00:20:14.695
As vendors, we're in a unique position to make change in the wedding industry.
00:20:15.355 --> 00:20:23.035
Couples should definitely not have to bear the burden of calling out harm especially on something that's supposed to be a super happy day.
00:20:24.205 --> 00:20:27.925
Vendors have the power to shape culture behind the scenes.
00:20:28.855 --> 00:20:31.525
Let me just, let me just say that again.
00:20:32.485 --> 00:20:37.105
Vendors have the power to shape the wedding culture behind the scenes.
00:20:37.615 --> 00:20:42.025
Like I know it's really easy to like think of weddings and like.
00:20:42.325 --> 00:20:56.785
Think about like the actual day itself because it's such a big day and there's so much hype and there's so much going on, and like that's great, but also like think about how much goes on like year round or in the year leading up to somebody's wedding date.
00:20:56.785 --> 00:21:03.865
Like we have networking events, we are sharing things, we are going to workshops, we're updating our workflows.
00:21:03.865 --> 00:21:10.765
Like there are so many times and so many things going on in the moments leading up to a wedding that.
00:21:11.155 --> 00:21:15.715
Leave room for us as vendors to shape the industry to be better.
00:21:16.465 --> 00:21:18.805
And that's why I have this podcast.
00:21:18.905 --> 00:21:19.265
Yeah.
00:21:20.525 --> 00:21:27.345
So I also wanted to start this section out with a real life
example.
00:21:27.505 --> 00:21:30.295
Like I said, this is, this is my everyday life.
00:21:30.295 --> 00:21:31.225
I feel like I'm just.
00:21:32.215 --> 00:21:37.735
Always seeing things and, and he, that's why this episode is being created.
00:21:37.735 --> 00:21:49.035
But something that came to mind for this one was this was like very early in my career I was planning a workshop, for other photographers to attend.
00:21:49.095 --> 00:21:55.725
And there was a florist that we had in mind that we wanted to do the flowers for the workshop.
00:21:55.755 --> 00:22:01.515
And upon hearing that a lot of the couples we were gonna be photographing were queer.
00:22:02.925 --> 00:22:07.875
Her response was, well, can I do flowers for just a straight couple?
00:22:07.875 --> 00:22:13.455
And then once you start photographing the queer couple, like I'll take them or not provide flowers for that.
00:22:15.105 --> 00:22:16.515
Oh man.
00:22:17.025 --> 00:22:17.685
Is that.
00:22:18.495 --> 00:22:19.005
Wow.
00:22:20.055 --> 00:22:20.505
Yeah.
00:22:20.625 --> 00:22:24.225
Thinking about these stories, man, they still get me even years later.
00:22:24.225 --> 00:22:25.005
'cause what?
00:22:25.425 --> 00:22:30.615
You're gonna provide flowers for half of the photos and then delete them for the rest of the photos.
00:22:30.615 --> 00:22:31.215
Like what?
00:22:31.965 --> 00:22:43.015
So yeah, this, this does happen behind the scenes and I'm sure that many vendors have stories like this.
00:22:43.555 --> 00:22:46.075
And so, yeah, let's chat about it.
00:22:46.075 --> 00:22:52.735
Like what as a vendor is your role in talking to other vendors about their problematic behavior?
00:22:53.935 --> 00:23:00.715
I think that's similar to how couples need to set boundaries and figure out what that looks like for them.
00:23:00.985 --> 00:23:09.085
I think it's also totally valid for each vendor to have boundaries and figure out maybe.
00:23:09.505 --> 00:23:12.625
Their own style of how to approach situations.
00:23:13.255 --> 00:23:29.605
Like for some vendors, maybe they don't feel super comfortable in the moment, like having a full argument with this person, but maybe instead they let their couples know like, Hey, this florist, I'm taking her off my list.
00:23:29.665 --> 00:23:33.745
And I really don't think that you or anyone should work with her.
00:23:34.165 --> 00:23:38.455
And then for other vendors, I think they're maybe a little bit more comfortable with confrontation.
00:23:38.905 --> 00:23:47.995
And I also should say that so many of these examples are on varying degrees of severity as well.
00:23:47.995 --> 00:23:54.235
So, I should note too that some of your response I think is dependent on the severity.
00:23:54.685 --> 00:24:06.875
So I think for something that is, a little bit more severe, you do have some responsibility to say something to that vendor especially if it's in person, which again, we'll talk about here in just a second.
00:24:07.265
--> 00:24:15.545
But I know that myself included, confrontation is not like our biggest strong suit.
00:24:17.115 --> 00:24:18.555
And so I wanna acknowledge that.
00:24:18.555 --> 00:24:27.105
But, I do wanna say yeah, it's important for you as a vendor to kind of figure out like, what feels good for you, how do you wanna handle things?
00:24:27.525 --> 00:24:31.785
And so on that note, I wanted to talk about calling in versus calling out.
00:24:32.265 --> 00:24:45.335
Essentially just using, calling in as a friendlier, more gentle, more encouraging way to talk to a vendor versus calling out, which is a little bit more direct and deliberate and yeah.
00:24:45.335 --> 00:24:50.885
So sometimes people do mess up and it's just from ignorant.
00:24:50.885 --> 00:24:54.035
It's not ignorance, it's not coming from a bad place.
00:24:54.085 --> 00:25:04.375
And so if in that situation you feel like, Hey, everything else I know about this person tells me that they're good and that, that they're trying, they just didn't know.
00:25:04.795 --> 00:25:09.775
I think you can say something like, Hey, I wanted to talk to you about something that came up today.
00:25:10.255 --> 00:25:18.905
It felt hurtful and a little bit harmful, even if it was unintentional and I thought you might be on, you might wanna be aware of that.
00:25:18.905 --> 00:25:20.765
Is this something you're open to discussing?
00:25:20.765 --> 00:25:20.825
I.
00:25:22.055 --> 00:25:23.525
Versus calling out.
00:25:23.885 --> 00:25:34.625
If it's a little bit more deliberate it's like actually laced in hatefulness or bigotry, then calling out and warning others is more appropriate.
00:25:34.975 --> 00:25:42.110
And that could look something like, I can't in good conscious recommend you or work alongside vendors who discriminate.
00:25:42.580 --> 00:25:46.105
This isn't just a difference of opinion, but it's about people's.
00:25:46.450 --> 00:25:49.630
Lives and their safety and their comfortability and wellbeing.
00:25:50.170 --> 00:26:01.800
So I think that as a vendor figure out what feels right for you, but also know that it is kind of on us to judge, like, where is this coming from?
00:26:02.040 --> 00:26:05.340
Do I know anything else about this person that lets me know?
00:26:05.340 --> 00:26:10.620
Like, hey, that might have just been a slip up versus like, this is starting to become a pattern.
00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:12.090
Yeah, so.
00:26:13.545 --> 00:26:25.305
I think it's important to note too, that like it is okay for this to happen behind the scenes and, you know, many of these situations will it doesn't always have to be public.
00:26:25.305 --> 00:26:30.045
Sometimes an email or a DM or a private conversation can do that.
00:26:30.375 --> 00:26:36.255
But if we want safer spaces for queer couples, we have to start behind the scenes.
00:26:36.495 --> 00:26:41.355
We have to start with the people around us and having these conversations, even when they're really tough.
00:26:41.385 --> 00:26:43.965
So, yeah, I know it's hard.
00:26:43.995 --> 00:26:49.935
Like, again, I'm saying this as a person who really does not enjoy confrontation, but.
00:26:50.985 --> 00:26:53.325
I know that if I can do it, you can do it.
00:26:53.375 --> 00:27:09.985
And I know that the instances that I have done it, like for example, one again that I've referenced in, in previous episodes is when a dj multiple times called out the bride and groom when referring to a couple that was very much a bride and a bride.
00:27:10.195 --> 00:27:12.205
And I had a conversation with him that.
00:27:13.435 --> 00:27:20.125
Well, I'm not sure he maybe learned from,'cause I haven't worked from him or worked with him since.
00:27:20.225 --> 00:27:23.585
I can confirm that it wasn't as scary as I thought.
00:27:24.005 --> 00:27:28.205
And so, you know, just remembering that.
00:27:28.910 --> 00:27:35.780
The world is full of good people and we, we want people in our wedding spaces that are willing to learn and grow.
00:27:35.780 --> 00:27:42.310
And so I'm just empowering you to do it even if it doesn't happen in the moment, like, you got this.
00:27:42.460 --> 00:27:47.440
But speaking of in the moment, this is so important.
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.330
If you are a vendor.
00:27:50.020 --> 00:27:52.000
Working closely with a couple.
00:27:52.520 --> 00:28:00.180
And again, this is coming from the position of like a photographer potentially a planner two, like if you're meeting with them out in public.
00:28:00.230 --> 00:28:04.820
You know, for me example, like I'm doing engagement sessions with couples out in public all the time.
00:28:05.330 --> 00:28:07.700
And so I think that this is really important to think of.
00:28:07.700 --> 00:28:13.490
And, and of course too on like wedding days you're there live with a couple in person.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:23.420
But I think it is so important for us vendors who are spending a lot of time with couples to be having conversations with them.
00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:26.270
About what to do should things arise.
00:28:26.450 --> 00:28:39.290
I have been doing this for long enough that unfortunately I have seen people give weird stares in public or get up and leave when I take a couple to go take their photo.
00:28:39.290 --> 00:28:45.680
And the person clearly doesn't wanna see us taking pictures, like things like that that happen live in person.
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:56.190
And especially just with everything that's going on in the world it's really important to have conversations with your couples about how to handle things if they happen in the moment.
00:28:56.700 --> 00:29:03.450
And this also comes from, again, like another real life experience.
00:29:03.570 --> 00:29:08.880
Something that, like this wedding in particular was what?
00:29:09.805 --> 00:29:14.095
Inspired me to start having conversations with couples ahead of time.
00:29:14.405 --> 00:29:26.095
Just in that, uh, yeah, a few years ago I
was working with a couple, both of them use they, them pronouns and you know, that's, that's all I knew and that's all I was referring to them as.
00:29:26.095 --> 00:29:33.145
And then I go to photograph their wedding and everyone is saying.
00:29:34.075 --> 00:29:45.085
Any pronouns that are not, they them like, I mean, I shouldn't say any pronouns, but n nobody was using they them pronouns for this couple, for either of them.
00:29:45.565 --> 00:29:53.035
And I just remember being so frozen all day because I was like, Hmm, should I be correcting people?
00:29:53.035 --> 00:29:56.035
Like is the couple doing this on purpose?
00:29:56.035 --> 00:29:57.745
Like people in their life don't know.
00:29:58.345 --> 00:29:59.065
And.
00:29:59.905 --> 00:30:13.225
You know, that's just, I, I think about that all the time because that's when I was like, okay, I, I really need to start talking to couples more ahead of time to know, like, when do I step in?
00:30:13.255 --> 00:30:14.845
What things are they comfortable with?
00:30:14.845 --> 00:30:19.355
What things are they having to change on their wedding day to protect themselves?
00:30:19.405 --> 00:30:20.275
Things like that.
00:30:20.335 --> 00:30:20.845
And so.
00:30:21.985 --> 00:30:23.335
It's really, really important.
00:30:23.645 --> 00:30:37.785
I think for photographers, especially since we see the couple in person before their wedding and we do so much with them throughout the day or even on the wedding day or potentially going to offsite locations for their photos and things like that.
00:30:38.125 --> 00:30:41.995
So I just really encourage you to think about how you wanna include that in your workflow, whether.
00:30:42.955 --> 00:30:49.615
It's a, a conversation, whether it's something you put in their questionnaires that you have them fill out ahead of time.
00:30:50.035 --> 00:30:54.445
Asking'em things like, what can I do to make you feel safe?
00:30:54.505 --> 00:31:01.255
Or if you notice something that I don't notice, like, please let me know.
00:31:01.305 --> 00:31:04.185
Things like that I think are just really valuable.
00:31:04.725 --> 00:31:07.105
And so, yeah, I think.
00:31:09.580 --> 00:31:22.210
It is important to have this conversation also because again, every couple is so different and some couples are like, we so appreciate you, but we totally got this, and we're okay.
00:31:22.210 --> 00:31:26.140
Like, letting people know that, hey, like actually those aren't our pronouns.
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:30.400
And sometimes they're like, actually, we would really appreciate your support on the wedding.
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:31.930
Like if somebody misgenders us, like.
00:31:32.110 --> 00:31:33.940
Uh, totally correct them.
00:31:34.320 --> 00:31:39.210
We just don't wanna be like stepping on anybody's toes or sharing information that's not ours to share.
00:31:39.210 --> 00:31:44.730
So I think that conversation ahead of time is, is really, really valuable.
00:31:44.970 --> 00:31:58.370
So, I know this is kind of a lot of information, it's a little bit of longer episode but I hope that for couples and vendors alike, you kind of figure out what feels right for you in calling out vendors.
00:31:58.450 --> 00:32:03.370
Uh, I just wanna say couples, you are empowered to say something.
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:19.200
If you feel safe in doing so, like we, we are trying to create a wedding future here where we don't have to be having these kinds of conversations and so, I just hope that you would know that you are empowered to do so.
00:32:19.605 --> 00:32:26.205
And if it's not you, like the next time you meet a wedding vendor, like share with them and we will share.
00:32:26.745 --> 00:32:28.305
And for vendors like.
00:32:29.310 --> 00:32:34.530
It, it is on us to create this culture that then creates a safe space for our couples.
00:32:34.530 --> 00:32:45.810
Like truly, so much of this is on us, and so I hope that we bear that weight responsibly and encourage others to do the same so that we can create.
00:32:45.845 --> 00:32:48.335
A better and safer wedding industry together.
00:32:48.395 --> 00:32:53.025
So, thank you so much for joining me here on Queer Beloved Today.
00:32:53.445 --> 00:33:03.465
If you have your own stories that, that you wanna share or any tips that you have as a vendor in, in calling out other vendors, please let me know.
00:33:03.975 --> 00:33:09.060
Feel free to email me hello@wildlyconnectedphotography.com or send me a dm.
00:33:09.540 --> 00:33:11.565
I I truly love chatting with all of you.
00:33:11.565 --> 00:33:13.665
So, until next time.
00:33:14.025 --> 00:33:14.895
Stay wild.
00:33:15.165 --> 00:33:15.975
Stay loved.
00:33:18.135 --> 00:33:19.545
Alright, bye guys.