Transcription complète de Sunday by Design with Sheldon J Andrus III

convinced that God loves me today, I'm I'm feeling, you know, specifically loved of God to say, hey man, uh the Bible says your gifts will make room for you and bring you before great men. 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:18.080 Hey, I'm sitting in front of one, although virtually, uh, and I'm super honored, man. 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:18.879 I'm incredibly honored. 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:19.840 I love what you're building. 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:30.080 I love your heart for the local church and how you bring not just strategy but uh but relationality to this whole thing and the way in which you do it and you and the team through the ark. 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:37.039 It's just it's it is I think it will be counted as one of America's great awakenings, if not already counted as one of America's great awakenings. 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:40.080 So, man, sitting with you uh today is is honestly really an honor. 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:40.639 Thank you, sir. 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:52.159 And I'm very excited to maybe introduce you to some ARC pastors and people who have been tuning in to this show to get to know you because if they don't know you, they need to know you and they won't forget you after they meet you. 00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:53.280 Okay. 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:54.560 Well, let's jump into a little bit. 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:56.240 You have Louisiana roots like me. 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:58.719 Hey man, hey man, both from the boot. 00:02:58.879 --> 00:02:59.599 Both from the boot. 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:04.639 Listen, man, uh I am born and raised in New Orleans, Louisiana, proud son of the city. 00:03:04.800 --> 00:03:08.400 You know, I all the things about Louisiana, you know, uh we know and love. 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:09.360 I grew up in it, right? 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:11.680 In the middle of my dad played for the New Orleans Saints. 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.520 I am a real New Orleanian, like through and through. 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:20.000 And so uh super honored to have that as part of my my childhood and part of the part that formed me. 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:21.199 Who dat, baby? 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.000 Hey, hey, who that said they're gonna beat them saints. 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:25.840 Monday, red beans and rice. 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:28.240 You know, uh with the little smoked sausage on the side. 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:29.199 Josh, they're not understanding. 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:30.159 Josh, they don't understand. 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:31.520 They don't, they just got here. 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:32.319 But come on in. 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:32.960 Welcome, friends. 00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:33.919 We're so happy you're here. 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:35.120 Pull up a plate, let's talk. 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.520 Okay, we need I'm getting hungry, my stomach's growling. 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:45.439 So you've been uh advising churches through your group, Andrew's advisory, and doing a lot of great things, helping people at a high level. 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:47.439 But before that, we also share some arc roots. 00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:50.800 Uh you were with Stephen Chandler for a while, some um other great churches. 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:51.039 Yeah. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:03:51.599 So tell us. 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:53.759 I call him the Bishop of Baltimore. 00:03:54.000 --> 00:04:00.159 Coming out of the pandemic, Union Church comes to fore through a merger of two great churches happening in Baltimore. 00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.400 I get a call from Stephen Chandler asking me to join his executive team at Union. 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.240 Get there, Union is a beautiful church, thriving, multiple campuses already. 00:04:08.319 --> 00:04:10.719 But you know, coming out of the pandemic, everyone's coming back to church. 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:22.160 The church in three years goes from uh 2,000 people to over 15,000 people, goes from, at the time, three campuses to uh eight campuses in three different states, and it is just and it is continued by the way. 00:04:22.240 --> 00:04:24.319 It's just this has just been the story of Union Church. 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:29.199 I had a 12-year career in marketing and advertising before going to Union. 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:37.120 I was a creative director at an ad agency, got to work for some phenomenal clients, uh, and traveled all over the world doing marketing, but this was different. 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:39.040 This was definitively different. 00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:42.399 The outcomes were different, the way we measured success was radically different. 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:46.800 And building God's church is deeply people and relational. 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:52.000 And so I I call it, I say to people all the time, it was my PhD in church leadership and church growth. 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:57.920 And then from Union, moved back home here to Ohio and got to work for I call him the GOAT, Dr. 00:04:58.000 --> 00:04:58.160 R. 00:04:58.240 --> 00:04:58.319 A. 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.480 Vernon, who is way ahead of his time, right? 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:13.519 He is he is another early 2000s multi-site preacher without the title, multiple campuses traveling between all of them, uh building systems and structure and strategies to serve multiple people around the city of Cleveland. 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:18.720 I got to join his team and really kind of architect some new systems for growth and strategy. 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:30.720 And then God showed me, like, hey, there's an ability for you to really do this for lots of churches, taking what is complex and making it simple and biteable, grabbable for pastors and leaders in their teams. 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.600 And so then Andrus advisory becomes my calling card. 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:39.920 It becomes the thing that I believe God put me on the earth to do, to really help churches find strategy, structure, and systems uh to grow. 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.160

Not like unapologetically to grow. 00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:43.839 The church is the hope of the world. 00:05:44.000 --> 00:05:47.439 Uh, there is no, there should be no limit to our reach. 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.439 We should be content, we should never be satisfied. 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:51.360 And the church of Jesus has to grow. 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:52.079 And so Dr. 00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:52.319 I. 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:56.480 Vernon taught me the church is never neutral, it's either advancing or it's declining. 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.879 And so it's our job as leaders to always ensure that the mission of God is growing. 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:03.839 You have this provocation in your book that we're gonna talk about. 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.319 It's coming out this week, uh, Sunday by design. 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.680 So we're gonna get into that seven things that you give churches to do. 00:06:10.000 --> 00:06:13.759 But in there, you kind of set up this like thought that's very provoking. 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.959 You ask the question, what is the capacity of hell? 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:18.160 Yeah, what is that all about? 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:19.920 Why would you bring things up in that way? 00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:30.480 The book starts off by laying a foundation that the Church of Jesus Christ is intended to be the dominating kingdom on the earth. 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:47.439 And to anyone who hears these conversations and they say, Man, that guy's just into church growth, although I am, or that guy's into numbers, although I am, I would also say there's an alternative to this conversation that is not being had, which is what is the capacity of hell? 00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:53.199 Because when you can answer that question, then you can tell me what the capacity of the church should be, because it should be larger than hell. 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:54.079 Amen, somebody. 00:06:54.160 --> 00:07:03.519 No one wants to have this conversation, but until we're really honest that our work in our local community is not done, as long as hell has a has a foothold. 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:06.800 And I know I'm I'm not a hellfire and brimstone preacher at all. 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:12.639 I'm just saying there is an eternal reality to the church that I think we can get lost sometimes. 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:17.680 That we, oh man, we got great programs, we got great services, we got groups, we got next steps. 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:18.399 It's all beautiful. 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:26.000 And I'm not saying we shouldn't be obsessing over those things, but we're never done as long as as long as hell is still an alternative to people. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:41.839 And so the entire idea, even behind the book, but behind what I believe God called me to, is the reality that the church has to be the effective measure of God on the earth because we people have a real alternative to heaven, and it is hell. 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:43.759 And no, it's like, oh, shut in hell. 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:45.680 This is a crazy way to start a podcast. 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:51.279 But hear me, pastor, hear me, leader, hear me, director, hear me, person who's invested in their local church. 00:07:51.439 --> 00:07:55.279 What you are doing is so much bigger than what it looks like. 00:07:55.439 --> 00:07:58.240 And there's a war being waged in the spiritual. 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:06.399 Paul tells us we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but we have there's powers and principalities, things above us outside of our visual line of sight that are at war with each other. 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:14.240 And what you're doing, you're not just parking cars on Sunday, you're not just taking care of kids, you're not just hosting groups, you are pushing back darkness. 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.199 And this is such a this this is why we can't watch this. 00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:19.920 This is why we can't treat what we're doing as common. 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:27.279 And so when you can tell me the capacity of hell, I mean you can tell me that hell is full, you can stop working, you can stop being serious about the growth of the local church. 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:32.480 And until we get to that day, which we are nowhere near, I would assert, what we're doing is is incredibly serious. 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:41.600 And the book posits that for all the theologues at the beginning, so then we can then get into the brass tax conversation of what does it take to grow God's church and grow it healthy and sustainably? 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:48.159 The alternative that you mentioned there to churches not being large is that hell would be full, and that's not what we want. 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:54.720 I never understood people spiritualizing small churches and spiritualizing, oh, large churches are bad. 00:08:54.879 --> 00:08:56.320 How could a large church be bad? 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.000 Someone say, I don't like megachurch. 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:00.960 Well, at what point should the churches start turning people away? 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.120 And then what's the result of turning them away? 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:04.639 So why wouldn't you want a large church? 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:05.279 Thank you, Josh. 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:07.600 I'm quoting a great, uh, a great philosopher. 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:12.879 I've learned that you cannot have growth and control at the same time, right? 00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:21.120 There is a there's a natural physiological organizational uh reality that if something is growing, you are delegating authority to someone else. 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:39.840 And I think what where I exist and also where I know you exist in this conversation, is helping leaders understand how to create healthy levels and layers of delegation within your within your team and your church so that the culture is aligned, the mission is aligned, but you're not the only person

responsible for all the decision making. 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:55.759 When you are missional and when you are desiring to win the loss, you will make sacrifices that set your preferences aside because you realize that that person does not know Jesus and your preference has to come secondary to their meeting Jesus. 00:09:55.840 --> 00:10:10.879 And I think there right there, right there is where we find the kind of tension that the book talks about, which is there's an intentionality behind growing churches that separates them from what I'll say, churches up against a growth barrier. 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:12.320 I think every church is meant to grow. 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:12.879 Every church. 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:15.600 There's not a church listening to this conversation that is not meant to grow. 00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:19.840 There's churches that are growing, and then there are churches that are pressing up against a growth barrier. 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:25.600 I don't call them stuck, I don't call them stagnant, I don't call them declining, because I don't believe that's God's hope for his church. 00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:27.600 So I don't I don't use words God doesn't use them. 00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:28.720 What does Jesus say? 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:30.080 I only say what the Father says. 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:32.080 So uh they're not stuck. 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:33.039 Uh they're not declining. 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.240 They're just I like that. 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:39.919 I've I've never heard that phraseology before, but there you said they're pressing up against a growth barrier. 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:40.879 There's a barrier. 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:44.320 There's a mentality, there's a thinking, there's a thought, there's a system missing. 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.480 And when that revelation comes, growth is on the other side. 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:51.919 And we see that we see this in the life of Jesus teaching the disciples. 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.039 It's if I can change your mind, I can change like your effect. 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:57.279 And so I said that to say, yeah, no one's declining. 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:58.639 No one's you're not stuck. 00:10:58.799 --> 00:11:01.600 You you serve a God who owns all the cattle of a thousand years. 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:02.559 You're never stuck. 00:11:02.639 --> 00:11:03.519 Like, there's always a way. 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.000 The Bible says he's already made a way of escape. 00:11:06.159 --> 00:11:10.399 Like, like there's already a there's already a breakthrough on the other side. 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:12.399 What you're missing is a strategy. 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:17.600 What you're missing is a tool, what you're missing is is revelation, or what you're missing is exposure. 00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:23.279 And I think what the book tries to do is say, hey, don't go looking for a bunch of things. 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:29.840 Let me, because I get the honor of being in and out of churches all across the country, and I'm able to compare notes. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.759 Let me compare some notes that I found. 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:41.519 And let me show you seven singular things that growing churches are doing that are not when you hear them, you're not gonna be like, oh my gosh, that's revolutionary. 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.559 You're gonna hear that's really simple, but we don't do that. 00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:45.679 And I I attacked that. 00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:46.639 You talk about that. 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.639 You set it up that way, and I think it's so important uh to highlight that. 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:56.080 You say that the the churches that are growing aren't doing like innovative things, new things, exciting things. 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:59.919 They're doing the same simple seven things over and over and over again. 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.320 That is really clever, and that is really it. 00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:07.200 But you have a nice way of saying you call it Sunday OS, which I've not heard that before. 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:10.960 So I'd love for you to break down what is Sunday OS and what are those things? 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.080 Yeah, so okay, so let's let's use all three. 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:16.879 Let's Sunday OS, Sunday operating system, Sunday. 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:25.519 I believe that in in our idea of being missional and accomplishing what God's put in us, especially in the local church, that God gave us the tool. 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:36.399 So we're all, you know, we're everyone on this, everyone's listening to this podcast has has bumped into, heard of, or been interested in some church growth technique, idea, system, strategy. 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:39.519 I'm I'm saying what is obvious. 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:40.480 God gave you one. 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:41.360 It's Sunday. 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:49.600 He God said, hey, every seven days, like clockwork, which Sunday comes regardless, every pastor in the in this podcast knows it. 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:51.759 Sunday's coming, it's and it's coming fast. 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.559 Sunday's coming regardless of if we're prepared for it or not. 00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:03.759 God literally built it into the cadence of Christian of Christianity and humanity to say, every seven days you'll pause and you'll gather and you'll honor and celebrate me. 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:10.320 That is your singular like the culture understands that Sundays are for church, whether or not they go. 00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:20.080 Hey, what when should we be, where should we put our focus? 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:21.120 God is super clear. 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:24.000 Don't forsake the gathering of ourselves together. 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:26.080 And the second half of that is a warning. 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:31.519 The second half of that, of that, of that scripture is because there's a day coming where you won't

be able to, right? 00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:37.120 And so again, to tie this all the way back to the beginning, there is a real reality that Sunday was given to us as a tool. 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:37.759 So Sunday. 00:13:37.840 --> 00:13:41.679 So the book starts off positing that Sunday is your growth mechanism. 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:51.200 It is your, it's, it is where you should put a disproportionate, watch this, amount of effort because through Sunday, we see the totality of the mission of your church. 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:53.440 I say this and I say this to pastors all the time. 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:57.200 I say, your church is never better than it appears on a Sunday. 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.080 If you're disorganized Monday through Friday, we'll see it on a Sunday. 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:02.320 If you're late Monday through Friday, we'll see it on Sunday. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:04.639 If you didn't plan Monday through Friday, we see it on Sunday. 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:06.559 If you love people, we see it on Sunday. 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.679 If you're a church of presence Monday through Friday, we see it on Sunday. 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.639 If you're a church that believes in prayer, you know what we'll find on Sunday? 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:13.759 We'll find you praying. 00:14:13.840 --> 00:14:16.799 And so Sunday becomes the crystallization of your mission. 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:17.759 That's part one. 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:21.200 Operation, the operating system is part two. 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:26.480 Every growing church has a mechanism by which the church moves, right? 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:33.200 And those of us who are in this conversation who are a part of the movement that is the ARK, you have been exposed to this mechanism, right? 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.919 ARK has a mechanism, uh, churches that are uh have led the ARK movement have a mechanism. 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.240 I can rattle off some of you are human right now, know God, find freedom, discover purpose, make a difference. 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:43.759 That's an operating system. 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:46.559 It is how we envision the movement of the church. 00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:52.799 Every church, you don't have to have that specific operating system, but every growing church has an operating system. 00:14:52.960 --> 00:15:02.399 And what the book says is regardless of what your operating system is, if you're a Windows, if you're a Linux, if you're an iOS, you know, I just switched into operating systems there for all the technology hurts. 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:07.759 If you have an operating system, they're all built on the same seven core principles. 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:17.759 And I'm trying to help leaders as they navigate, yo, what up, Sheldon, what operating system should my church be running on or what um, what's our unique way of accomplishing our mission? 00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:25.360 I'm saying, hey, let's, before we get there, let's define that every operating system runs on the same seven basic principles. 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:31.360 And that's what the book surfaces is that, hey, regardless of, hey, Sheldon, we're a presence church. 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:36.720 Hey, Sheldon, we're a prayer church, hey, Sheldon, we are an outreach church, hey, Sheldon, we're a leadership church, hey, Sheldon, we're a family church. 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:37.519 That's that's great. 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:40.000 That's your larger, like kind of ecosystem. 00:15:40.159 --> 00:15:50.799 What I'm saying is there is a smaller set of seven key things that no matter which of those you choose, your church has to have these seven things in order to maximize its mission. 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:52.399 Sunday OS, I love it. 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.639 I think that's such a clever way of phrasing that up. 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:58.320 One of the things you talk about, I believe it's the first principle that you talk about. 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:04.559 You say one of the most expensive statements that will cost your church more than anything else is my people don't mind. 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:05.519 Why is that? 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.440 This ties back to this idea of small thinking in church, right? 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:20.159 That I know everyone in this church, which is healthy at the onset, but becomes a limiting belief as your church grows. 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:24.639 The goal, hear me, don't freak out because I know a bunch of people say, Whoa, Sheldon, you're saying I shouldn't know everybody in my church. 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:29.200 I'm saying your church should be growing in such a way that you actually don't know who minds. 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:36.320 You should lead your church through the idea that every Sunday someone is coming into your church who you don't know. 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:37.840 You should prepare for that. 00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:39.039 You should expect that. 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:45.679 Matter of fact, I think you should orient your prayers toward Lord, send us people who we do not know. 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:50.080 And when they arrive, you shouldn't be surprised that they got there. 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:55.039 So, yeah, your current people may not mind, but the people who are coming may. 00:16:55.279 --> 00:17:12.240 And so, what I'm what I'm offering is a sensitivity to the idea that, or maybe I should say, what I'm offering is to destroy the idea of arrogance that you know everyone in your church and you know what's acceptable and you know their culture, and to say, hey, what if an unbeliever came in today? 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:13.759 What if an unchurch person came? 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:14.880 Would they mind? 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:16.319 Are are we not here? 00:17:16.480 --> 00:17:22.000 Watch this, not have we, because I know there's two schools of thought hearing me right now, is church is not exclusively for the unbeliever.

00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.519 I'm not, I'm we're not gonna settle that debate here, although I have a strong feeling. 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:44.640 But what I am saying is, is there has to be some reality that on any given Sunday, someone is stepping your church who does not know Jesus or who is unchurched, and what they encounter can't be so far outside of what they needed that they never find themselves in your story or watch this returning. 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:54.880 So I say that uh the one of the one of the one of the declining statements I hear of a growth fa of a church facing a growth barrier is yeah, we do that because our people like it. 00:17:54.960 --> 00:17:55.519 They don't mind. 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:56.720 Well, yeah, your people do. 00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:03.279 But do new people have you thought about that same exchange or interaction through the lens of someone who's joining for the first time? 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:13.279 I think a healthy growing church expects people they don't know every single Sunday and they are prepared to meet them when they arrive. 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:25.519 That's a great business principle that I think maybe pastors aren't aware of, and that is in marketing school they teach you that if you just survey your customers, you never get the feedback from the people who are not coming back because they didn't like your product or service. 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:37.920 And so you have to find a way to get beyond thinking, well, this is what my people like, or if I change this, I'll lose these people and get to a bigger kingdom mentality that, like you said, what's the capacity of hell? 00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:41.359 I gotta reach people and continue to populate heaven. 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:44.160 So, real quick, could you run through what the seven things are? 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:46.799 Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm the people like seven, just a lot. 00:18:46.880 --> 00:18:50.240 Okay, let me give them to you real quick, and I'm and I won't I won't preach like a preacher on all of them. 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:53.920 I'll just literally tell you what they are so you can go and get the book and really d dive into these. 00:18:54.079 --> 00:18:58.799 So, in order, these are in order of priority, these are not seven things randomly. 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:02.640 They literally go in order because without the one proceeding, you can't get to the last one. 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.200 Here we go. 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:05.279 First, you gotta live in the clock. 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:14.480 You, a growing church, has a sensitivity and awareness that people's time is valuable and what you do with that time matters. 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:16.000 Every minute you live in the clock. 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:21.279 Number two, you choose a dependable service or what I call a locked service format. 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:23.119 Number two, you lock your service format. 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:31.920 Here's why: because your church is run on volunteers, and volunteers are not thinking Monday through Saturday, for the most part, about the order of service. 00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:40.160 And so dependability becomes the framework or the foundation from which your volunteers can grow in excellence on Sunday. 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:46.160 Because we know that after song three, we're gonna play a video, and then after the video, pastors are gonna walk on stage. 00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.319 But if that changes every week, you know what ends up happening? 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:54.000 The video doesn't fire, the microphone's not on, and the lighting cues miss because we change it every week, so we lock our service format. 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.319 Number three, we script the first five minutes. 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.119 Josh, I'm gonna say this is the most controversial one in the book. 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.039 I've already heard pastors who've who've already read it say, ah, Sheldon, this is a lot. 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:10.400 Why I say script the first five minutes is directly correlated to the Old Testament's design for entering into the tabernacle. 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.400 We do not process into the presence of God without order. 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:23.759 We know when God gives the order of the tabernacle, it is almost three books of the Bible in which He is being explicit about how to enter into the tabernacle. 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:29.920 And so when we start service, which when we start our experiences together on Sunday, you'll find it a growing church. 00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:32.000 We know exactly what's gonna happen. 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:34.720 We're not making it up as we go along. 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.839 Number four, we capture every guest. 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.599 We have a growing church that has a mechanism to capture every guest. 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:47.039 Now you're gonna say, Shono, we got QR codes, we got tap to we got tap to connect, we got the connection cards. 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:54.480 I'm just saying there's a lot of churches who are looking, who are facing a growth barrier, who have not settled whether or not they have a mechanism to capture every guest. 00:20:54.559 --> 00:21:02.400 And Josh, this ties all the way back to the thing we were just talking about, that our church is ready to receive guests every single Sunday. 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:06.319 Number five, we make one ask every Sunday. 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:10.160 Obviously, when that one ask is in addition to salvation. 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:14.480 Every Sunday, we're presenting the gospel and we're asking people to come into relationship with Jesus. 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:17.119 After that, we make one ask. 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:25.680 We say, hey, your next step is to do this because everyone has a next step, regardless if they've been at your church 10 years or 10 minutes, they have a next step. 00:21:25.839 --> 00:21:33.839 And

instead of offering six options or a slate or a menu of things, we clarify one clear next step. 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:42.640 Hey, if you experienced our word, if you experienced worship and you experienced the word here and you gave your life to Jesus, here's the one thing we want you to do next. 00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:44.160 And we make that abundantly clear. 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:49.279 Number six, growing churches follow up with people within 24 hours of that decision. 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:50.960 Hey, Josh, it's 2026. 00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:56.160 AI has automated more things, AI is paying our bills, it's responding to our emails and our text messages. 00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:05.680 Guys, this is one of the easiest ways that the Church of Jesus can be advanced is In the moment of decision making, we can be present in people's decision by being urgent. 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.240 God will not send you people to neglect. 00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:14.400 If you're not ready to follow up with them as soon as they make a decision, you weren't ready to shepherd or steward them. 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:21.200 And last but not least, the seventh switch within the Sunday operating system is we count. 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.200 We count people because people count. 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:28.400 How did the shepherd leave the 99 for the one unless he knew there were a hundred? 00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:36.960 There is a there is a spiritual desire to understand who is in your house, who are you shepherding and who are you leading? 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:43.680 And without counting them, you will find yourself making emotional decisions that the numbers don't match. 00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.279 And this and again, I like to call the seven switches. 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:52.960 Um, those of us who are students of of Pastor Dave Ramsey, I call him Pastor Dave Ramsey because he's pastored my life. 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:54.319 Okay, he has pastored my life. 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:55.359 He's gonna be a pastor. 00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.960 Uh, you heard the baby steps the first time and you said, that's easy. 00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:01.519 Get save an emergency fund, pay off your biggest. 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:04.559 And they're all they sound they sound to all of us, Josh. 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:06.240 I know you you and your wife have probably been here. 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:21.680 That sounds easy until you really look at, man, that first thousand dollars when you don't have extra money is so I'm saying, so when I say live in the clock as the first switch, you're like, shut up, that's easy until you realize, oh man, this today's service was 80 minutes. 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:25.200 Next Sunday was 120, the Sunday after it'll be 70. 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:26.720 You're not actually living in the clock. 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:35.119 And that discipline, that discipline that you need to live in the clock is the same discipline that appears in the seventh switch when you're counting people. 00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.559 But if you don't start off with a basic discipline, you don't mature in discipline. 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:48.400 And so that's why they're in sequential order because you every one of them builds a stronger muscle that creates what I call an operating system to grow your church. 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:50.400 There's so much I want to get into on the show. 00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:51.279 Bro, it's so fun. 00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:51.839 I love this. 00:23:52.160 --> 00:24:06.160 Josh, I'm so excited about this book, and I'm so excited you invited me into this because I literally, this thing is like uh it's one of those things once you see it and once you hear it, it's hard to be like, it's hard to argue with, I would hope. 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:07.920 I would posit arrogantly as an author. 00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:08.960 It's hard to argue with. 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.640 But also, it is it is one of those uh it's kind of like an atomic habit. 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.000 It is a total money makeover. 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:21.759 Once you do this, once you master this, what happens on the other end is is financial freedom. 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:23.920 What happens on the other end is high-end productivity. 00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:29.200 And for Sunday by design, my goal is what happens on the other end is revival in your church. 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.039 So this book's coming out this week, the week this podcast is out, September 15th. 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:35.680 There's so much more that we didn't get into that. 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.240 I just I really want to, but we gotta wrap it up. 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:38.799 Part two. 00:24:39.039 --> 00:24:39.279 Part two. 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:40.160 Yeah, part two. 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:40.480 Yes. 00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:41.599 Part two is get the book. 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:46.160 You talk one of the things you talk about, like go going over on time, is does it make you more anointed? 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.279 It means you're less prepared. 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:48.079 I love that. 00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:52.400 The the script in the first five minutes, I can't wait for people to learn about that and figure that out. 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:54.240 I believe in that so strongly. 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:56.000 Um, where can people get the book? 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.240 What kind of resources are you putting around the book? 00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:00.319 I know you would never just release a book. 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:00.720 Come on. 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:01.759 There's gotta be more. 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:02.960 I don't I know there's more. 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:04.240 Thank you. 00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:05.279 You know, it's a great question. 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:06.240 You can get the book right now. 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:08.079 You go to sundaybydesign.com. 00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:14.640 Uh it's

available on all the places you buy books, including ebook, and there's an audiobook coming out uh because some people that's a new way. 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:16.880 So I'm gonna, I'm actually in the process of recording an audiobook. 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:22.240 If you go to Sunday by Design, you'll see you can find out all those things uh and figure out all the different places. 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:35.119 Part two is my heart is to partner with pastors and their leadership teams uh to think about not just the seven switches that we talk about in the book, but to think about their larger operating system. 00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:48.960 The next step after the book is what we call Sunday OS Plus, which is a coaching platform where you work with me and our team to implement these what I what we call the four pillar systems of every growing church. 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:51.599 So Sunday by Design introduces you to the first one. 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.039 There are three others. 00:25:53.359 --> 00:26:05.279 And to help you implement those over 12 months, we want to partner with you, we want to walk along with you as you do that so that you can see the movement that God put in your heart start to experience in your church. 00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.799 And uh so you can go to Sunday by Design, learn about all that, of course, reach out to me, do all the social media ways. 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:24.319 Uh, I'd love to partner with pastors, their leaders, executive pastors, um, as you implement what I bec what I'm calling the systems revival in your churches, um, so that you can not only have revival, but you can have lasting revival. 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:25.039 I love it. 00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:27.599 And I love the way that revival looks these days. 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:31.680 Um it's not being in church for five hours and weird things happening. 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:38.000 It's it's transformed lives, transform communities, people praying, serving, giving, and living holy lives. 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.640 And I love that I get to do it with people like you. 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.160 Sheldon, thank you so much, man. 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:43.680 It's been such a privilege and honor. 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:48.079 Uh, just your spirit, your joy, the way you craft uh a conversation through story. 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:50.240 It's just, man, it's just amazing. 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:51.920 So really, really enjoyed talking with you. 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:53.039 Josh, honored. 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:55.279 Thank you so much to everybody else cheering you on. 00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:57.119 Let's build the church. 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:08.640 Hopefully that episode helps you plan your Sundays and make them more effective as culture centers and experiences for your church. 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:15.519 Go check out the book Sunday by Design, How Growing Churches, Master Sunday at Sundaybydesign.com. 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:17.680 I'll link the book in the show notes. 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:24.960 I know it's going to be a great resource to you and your team as you continue to plan and execute amazing Sunday services. 00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:30.720 If you're enjoying this podcast, I'd love for you to subscribe, hit that subscribe button real quick, and leave us a review. 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.200 It's one of the best ways you can support the show. 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:38.640 It's so important for us to get good reviews so people know that this is a show that is making a difference. 00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:40.880 So I appreciate you taking a moment to do that. 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:44.079 Also, this episode was brought to you by your team.church. 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:55.039 It's a way for you to put technology into your hands, your team, and the people in your church wanting to take next steps so that they are more likely to join a team and continue their discipleship journey. 00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:00.960 So go check out your team.church and place every volunteer where they thrive. 00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:02.240 Thank you for joining us today. 00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.160 I can't wait for you to be with us next time. 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.960 Until then, keep leading and believing strong. 00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.759 I love Brad Hampton, because I'm calling Brad Hampton after his episode. 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:52.799 So this is yo, I love that we're all together. 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:53.839 Hi guys. 00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:55.279 Brad's recorded next. 00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:58.559 Brad's recorded next. 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:00.640 I love it so much. 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:01.680 I didn't know you could pop up. 00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:03.759 Pastor Brad, I'll owe you a phone call as soon as you're done. 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:05.519 So as soon as you're done, uh copy. 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:07.839 We're wrapping up, Brad. 00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:09.839 Uh let me let me text you when we're finished. 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:10.960 So I'm sorry. 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:13.599 All right, I was just wanting to make sure the technology was working. 00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:14.400 My bad. 00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:15.839 See you soon, both of you. 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:18.000 Yo, we should totally leave that in the episode. 00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:19.759 That's so that's such a good pop in. 00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:20.799 Maybe I will. 00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:21.359 That was so fun. 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:21.920 I love Brad. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:22.720 So good.