Transcription complète de The Biggest Problem in Construction Isn't Budget or Schedule

00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.200 We met up and kind of did show and tell one day. 00:05:51.200 --> 00:05:56.559 Um, met through LinkedIn and said, Hey, let's let's kind of see what each other have been working on. 00:05:56.559 --> 00:06:01.600 And his pitch was trying to get me to use his software, and mine was the same to him. 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:07.279 And you know, we ended up just leaving that conversation and saying, man, this is we gotta work together. 00:06:07.279 --> 00:06:09.840 Like this is just kind of a a weird thing. 00:06:09.840 --> 00:06:14.240 Not our none of none of our peers are really doing this, and we seem like a good team. 00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:15.279 Let's go ahead and work together. 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:20.639 Um, so that kind of kicked off a a year or two of just side hustle grinding. 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:29.840 Actually, the very first, not very many people know this, the very first version of Build Zen was was started back then in 20, you know, 2014, 2015. 00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:36.639 Oh, we got a user, uh, paid us like five grand up front, started using the software, just daily reporting and RFIs. 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.399 And uh, we're like, oh man, we actually got something, let's go. 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:49.279 And you know, through that, we finally um hit a point where you know, we I needed to go do this full time. 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:51.679 And it wasn't necessarily what we were building at the time. 00:06:51.679 --> 00:06:59.759 It's just I was at the point where I was spending just so much time outside of project turner project management. 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:06.799 I knew I wasn't gonna excel in that type of company without being, you know, fully committed with my side projects. 00:07:06.799 --> 00:07:09.600 And I was uh lucky enough to have a wife. 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:13.600 I call her my my first angel investor, right? 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:17.519 We had no customers, like we had no revenue really. 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.360 We we ended up pivoting on the product, so we didn't have anything. 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.879 And I told my wife, like, I I just I'm gonna go ahead and do this. 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:26.639 And she she said yes. 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:34.559 So um, yeah, that took us um to actually have some really fortunate turns in our path at that time. 00:07:34.559 --> 00:07:45.759 Um Anthony was was uh he he was still working as a project manager at his old company, and I was full time on trying to figure out something for us. 00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.240 And he had a kid and a house, mortgage. 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:49.360 I was a little bit more free. 00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:54.879 And so I spent you know the first six months on our journey of just trying to figure stuff out. 00:07:54.879 --> 00:08:00.080 We were actually focused on um one of the biggest problems in construction, which is payments. 00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:12.720 And through that, we we ended up um getting very fortunate and doing a last-minute application to to Y Combinator, the tech accelerator in Mountain View at the time. 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:15.200 Applied to YC. 00:08:15.200 --> 00:08:22.480 We got in and we started um going off to the races of a Silicon Valley venture-backed startup path. 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:25.279 And that was that was a wild experience. 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:33.679 Two construction guys, you know, used to a job site trailer, sitting next to Sam Altman and back in the day when he was involved in YC. 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:38.080 Um, and just learning from some of the the sharpest people. 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:42.320 Um the group partners there and just the peers around you. 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.759 We always just felt like we were didn't quite fit in, you know. 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.000 There was just some uh some high caliber people there. 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:57.919 Um so we ended up uh building a payment product, so invoicing and payments for construction, kind of what Build Zen has today. 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:01.439 It's the very first initial um approach to that. 00:09:01.439 --> 00:09:07.759 And we raised a little bit of venture capital, a little bit of angel investors, and we hit a big wall. 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:15.439 So we just we hit a uh a wall of uh of revenue and sales like challenges. 00:09:15.439 --> 00:09:22.000 So construction is is notorious for not adopting technology very quickly. 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.399 We're selling to mid-market companies. 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:35.199 We would just grind to even get meetings, and it ended up being slow sales cycles and small deal sizes for the product we were selling. 00:09:35.199 --> 00:09:46.959 And we'd have to convince everybody in the company, the accountants, the uh project managers, even down to the superintendents who may be approving invoices to to use the software and uh and get it adopted. 00:09:46.959 --> 00:09:53.279 And investors saw that, and we kind of saw the writing on the wall and said, man, I I don't, we're gonna die. 00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:55.039 Like this is just not gonna work. 00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:58.480 We're running out of cash in six months, and we got to figure something out. 00:09:58.799 --> 00:09:59.120 Right. 00:09:59.120 --> 00:10:07.199 I mean, it's you telling the story of a you know, the typical Silicon Valley right feel of a startup. 00:10:07.199 --> 00:10:14.959 But I'm gonna back up to something you said, having that support, giving yourself sort of that space to one. 00:10:14.959 --> 00:10:31.279 I'm noticing like I can no longer sit in this grind and do multiple things and finding your passion to say, yeah, you know, I'm I'm a little bit feeling like I'm an imposter sitting in this position, and this is where I get my joy and where I need to go. 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:38.159 So that you, you know, you had someone that was willing to give you that time to step out and do it. 00:10:38.159 -->

00:10:39.759 You mentioned, you know, your wife. 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:42.159 Um, that's I'm I'm lucky right now. 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:43.519 I'm getting that too, right? 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:44.719 To to do something. 00:10:44.719 --> 00:10:52.879 So we we all know like we can feel alone, but you have somebody who's willing to kind of provide you, you know, that space, right? 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:55.199 To to test and to try. 00:10:55.199 --> 00:11:04.399 So you're you know, long rides on BART, sitting and uh encoding, you're meeting, um meeting your partner, um, Anthony. 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:36.240 So thinking through like this journey that you're talking about, you know, it sounds typical for a tech company, but something that you said, and I think this is where we'll get into that next big problem that you're trying to solve and how you've evolved, not only as as ACOR and the construction piece, but the builds in as you've learned through this journey and in application of yes, we were our problem first problem was payments, and payments are slow for uh sub trades as well as you know, general contractors. 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:43.199 Um, and that is that is a tremendous you know challenge for cash flow within a product within a business. 00:11:43.199 --> 00:11:50.959 Um, and then you know what happens when one project is slow versus another, and how contractors tend to manage that. 00:11:50.959 --> 00:12:17.919 But if we just start kind of diving in a little more, then Casey, you know, as you went through this, you know, you hit the wall and you started kind of evolving as as a core um like this we'll we'll get into kind of these obstacles in the human piece, but beyond the payment, like what else as you were evolving as a construction company was starting to come up as like, hey, you know, this is a problem too. 00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:19.279 Hey, this is a problem too. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:29.919 And then how were you doing that alongside your own business um to kind of address some of those human nature pieces when it comes to technology? 00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:34.639 Yeah, uh what we did is highly not recommended, actually, in hindsight. 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:43.360 Uh it's extremely challenging to uh to build software and run a company, a construction company, um, at the same time. 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:52.399 So um just pivoting into becoming the construction company, we we looked at who we're selling the software to, right? 00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:58.799 Yeah, they didn't want to buy it, and we also kind of look like really good looks into what else they were doing in their business. 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:00.399 How did they do contracts? 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:12.159 How did they do um like purchasing and just kind of diving into every little corner of the business across hundreds of companies um in the country? 00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:25.679 And we had the the the idea if we build software to solve a lot of these problems

without having having legacy systems or even just legacy mindset, which is a huge thing. 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:26.240 Yep. 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.879 Um what can we do? 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:34.799 Like well, how how how big can we make a change in the building process? 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.519 And so yeah, that's what we started started doing. 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:43.039 We got um got our contractor's license and a year after Y Combinator. 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:45.120 I'm running jobs, superintendent. 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.360 Anthony's writing code all day. 00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:52.159 You know, I we're I'm basically construction guy, he's software guy. 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:58.480 And you know, I'm in a in a ceiling in Livermore in the in the strip mall, running some cabling. 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:03.839 And the year before, I'm sitting like trying to pitch VCs on the next big thing. 00:14:03.839 --> 00:15:17.039 Like yeah, so that was a big shift of like, hey, we just gotta do what we have to do. 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:18.720 We need to make, we need to make money. 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:20.240 We have a big vision. 00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:26.080 Um, what can we do with with this software um managing our projects internally? 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:32.240 Um how can we build an organization around it too, which is a kind of an interesting uh thing in hindsight. 00:15:32.240 --> 00:15:43.039 Um yeah, so yeah, that took us into to several years of just trying to build from ground zero a construction company around software. 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:43.840 Yeah. 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:51.840 So you're starting off and again going back to that revenue piece as a company, you you went back to the roots, what you knew. 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:57.919 I mean, you you well, it's kind of interesting because I think we're gonna get into that econ thing here in a bit. 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:17.039 But you you find yourself in a construction piece, the project management, you're back out kind of doing this this thing to generate revenue while trying to feed back to the coding side of like like here are some of the problems, here are some of the barriers that you as a contractor you typically might see. 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:24.000 And they're picking up because you guys are running a company, you're trying to run a construction company and you're noticing those little things. 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:28.800 So talk a little bit about like you know, builds in a little deeper. 00:16:28.800 --> 00:16:36.159 I've seen it, I've you know, I've I've had a chance to kind of see it, um, Casey, but like it's beyond payments, right? 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:39.440 Because now pull your econ piece in, right? 00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:48.800 Like cash flow is only one part of it when we're talking about project-based accounting and earned value management, right, through through a project. 00:16:48.800 --> 00:17:03.200 So how has you know, how did it work for

you when you guys were doing construction, and then starting to look at these pieces that that a construction team and a project management team, as well as that accounting side, would probably need to solve some of those problems. 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:14.559 Yeah, at the end of the day, it was looking at every little thing we were doing to get work, start a job, run the job, and finish a job. 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:22.240 Killing back every single layer of that and seeing what we can build and automate through software. 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:29.599 And a lot of it was uh from the category of things that annoy us, we say. 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:32.240 What annoys us? 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:33.680 Hmm, let's see. 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:40.319 When the subs ask us for an insurance requirement or we have to process COIs, that's that's kind of annoying. 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:49.839 Chasing chasing signatures on contracts, sending out the contracts, um, down to like collecting lean waivers on the payment side. 00:17:49.839 --> 00:18:01.759 And so we we we started with the foundation of okay, we got to start a job, and from there we have obviously need to build an estimate and a proposal, and then we need to write contracts. 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:08.319 So we we looked at every single workflow and connected them all together as much as we could through Build Zen. 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:17.759 Um, obviously using a few out outside systems where where it makes sense, like a scheduling tool or a plan reading tool, um things like that. 00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:20.560 But that was the thesis. 00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:28.720 It's like what what can we connect in the software to automate things so we didn't have to hire anybody, right? 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:35.600 We well, I was running around, I was a super, I was the PE, the PM, the sales, the BD guy. 00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:35.920 Right. 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:44.080 Anthony would support, he's running a couple of jobs here and there, but it's more we were more focused on him writing code because that's his like superpower, right? 00:18:44.080 --> 00:19:08.160 And because of the way we did that, it required us to also think a little different than somebody who let's say they're longer older in their career, you know, they're more experienced, they're they have 20 years, they spin off, they have some capital, you know, they they can hire people right away to like do kind of these annoying things. 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.520 We didn't have that, which is a good thing in hindsight, right? 00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:12.000 Right. 00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:21.360 Yeah, well, I I think as you're describing, because you mentioned like your ideal kind of client profile, right, is that mid-market, right? 00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:25.120 So it's smaller contractors who who are probably similar to you. 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:43.120 They they don't have that initial capital, but going back to the you know, this problem that

you're aiming to solve, like what you were looking for was the pain points that a mid-market contractor with little funding is going to go through just to deliver a project, right? 00:19:43.120 --> 00:19:47.360 From when it execute it, you know, close it out. 00:19:47.360 --> 00:20:04.880 And yeah, I mean, compliance, thinking about all those, all the forms, all the things that that are required to you know get a project successfully done and legally like protected by doing these things is is incredible. 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:05.680 Oh, 100%. 00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:08.960 Most most people don't at like a PM role. 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:16.640 Let's say you're PM at Turner or one of the big GCs or even the market smaller GCs, they don't really see like the business side of it. 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:17.120 Yeah. 00:20:17.120 --> 00:20:21.600 They they can manage their jobs, they know budget, they know like their project cash flow and all that. 00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:25.440 But I mean, it was a learning experience for Anthony and I along the way. 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:31.280 We're still learning things today, talking to CDAs and like you know, trying to understand more of like that world. 00:20:31.280 --> 00:20:33.200 And it's it's a lot. 00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:39.440 I think it's way more than people anticipate if they do spin off and start their own GC. 00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.800 Um, it it's it's pretty involved. 00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:50.080 And fortunately, like build Zen helps with a lot of that, but they're still, you know, it's a it's a messy process, it's a messy industry. 00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:53.280 It's it's tough. 00:20:53.280 --> 00:20:58.320 It's uh it's a I I tell everybody it's uh playing business on hard mode. 00:20:58.320 --> 00:20:59.600 Right. 00:20:59.600 --> 00:21:00.880 Right. 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.640 So it's like it's it's just it's tough. 00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:06.720 It's constant constant competition. 00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:11.920 You're grinding your numbers down, but you still have to deliver this level of service, right? 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:16.080 Which requires a lot of you know people and and resources. 00:21:16.080 --> 00:21:19.600 And you have to stay in such like there's it's such a regulated industry. 00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:29.920 There's a lot of um confinements to how you have how you can operate tons of paperwork, especially if you're in commercial and you're working for these big corporations, right? 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:36.480 Like A Corps working for some huge companies, Pro Lodges, Irvine Company, uh Brookfield Properties, right? 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.280 They're these mega REITs and organizations. 00:21:39.280 --> 00:21:50.640 Then you get into public work or healthcare or super high-touch um facilities, um, like hyper-secure facilities. 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:54.720 That's that's just another step into complications, right? 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:55.840 Yeah. 00:21:55.840 --> 00:22:16.240 Well, and I think you you mentioned that it's not we get trained to do the one thing and we get really good at it, but we we are missing the business side of construction with a lot of you know leadership development or just employee development to understand the impact, you know, beyond what they're doing in the field, right? 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:24.720 So you have trades and then you have people in the offices and all the parties of what how how that you know, a project is your business, right? 00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:27.520 That is a contract is your revenue. 00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:50.560 And by disconnecting it, or you know, some software's always been about the kind of the easy button, but we're going back to this change fatigue piece that that we'll probably need to dive into deeper is one, a technology won't solve bad process or it won't solve that they don't know something, right? 00:22:50.560 --> 00:23:06.720 Like not understanding the importance of job cost and and tracking it and recording it and getting, you know, managing your budget, your project budget, but also like, okay, it's not the accountant's rule. 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:09.840 Like it's how do you bring these things all together? 00:23:09.840 --> 00:23:26.800 Because a project manager wants to just kind of run the job and make, you know, they're having a hard enough time just getting trades to the project site, like all of these things, and then there's then there's all of this paperwork, which they just feel like, oh, that's just a it's a mountain of stuff that probably shouldn't be my responsibility. 00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:30.640 And the reality is like it, there's it takes a whole team. 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.520 That's why they're called project accountants, yeah, right? 00:23:33.520 --> 00:23:56.320 Like with project managers and everybody kind of working to maintain compliance, um, making sure that the job, everything's recorded appropriately within the periods, getting revenue, you know, aligned with it, changing your EACs, all those things, like that's a it may not, it may sound like, hey, that's that's finance. 00:23:56.320 --> 00:24:00.000 I don't want to deal with it, but it's like, no, that's project based account. 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:03.600 Like this is this is this is part of it. 00:24:03.600 --> 00:24:07.120 And the beauty part, what I think for a lot of if we've trained people. 00:24:07.120 --> 00:24:09.360 About those things. 00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:20.480 It's like the software is there to help you see the data and see the warning signs before trag, you know, tragic things starts to happen. 00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:22.320 Challenges in cash flow. 00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:29.280 You know, for the whole year or whatever. 00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:32.000 And then and then all these, you know, from the county's. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:33.520 Well, you got cost still coming in. 00:24:33.520 --> 00:24:35.600 Well, that job's been done six months,

right? 00:24:35.600 --> 00:24:36.240 Yeah. 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:36.560 Yeah. 00:24:36.560 --> 00:24:37.360 They already happened. 00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:58.160 So anyway, I that's maybe a little deeper, but it's like thinking through what you just said of like helping train some younger project, you know, project engineers, project managers, you know, whatever level they're at inside of companies, like the technology, and this sounds like something maybe how you guys have learned, right? 00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.560 Like, like it isn't an easy button. 00:25:00.560 --> 00:25:09.520 It is built based on those pains that we've had while trying to help educate a whole team to understand what does all this mean? 00:25:09.520 --> 00:25:10.160 Yeah. 00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:10.480 Yeah. 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:11.600 What it all means. 00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:17.280 So, how have you you got builds in over here, and as you've grown ACOR, right? 00:25:17.280 --> 00:25:26.320 Like, how have you, from a leadership level, been helping people understand the importance, you know, beyond the field, right? 00:25:26.320 --> 00:25:33.600 And getting things done, these will what will feel like tasks or feels like a task, right, to them. 00:25:33.600 --> 00:25:36.960 Um, but it's part of the overall business health. 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:42.960 Like, how have you how have you thought about that and and taking care of training and things like that within your own company? 00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:45.440 Yeah, yeah, that that's very it's tough. 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:54.320 A lot of construction, you some of the protocols that companies require don't seem like there's a ton of value in it, right? 00:25:54.320 --> 00:26:02.640 And it doesn't like what we're doing is we're trying to get the right people on site with the right materials at the right time. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:03.120 Right. 00:26:03.120 --> 00:26:05.920 You know, that's kind of that's what matters. 00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:07.680 We have to get people on site. 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:10.000 And then obviously people can get paid, right? 00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:14.400 But uh the the super NSM PMs are like they're focused on that. 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:16.400 You know, if they miss a day, they report. 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:20.000 Like, well, the people showed up and they did the work, right? 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:29.280 You know, that there's there's things about construction that's more like, oh, let's record and uh let's have record of, right? 00:26:29.280 --> 00:26:30.640 Which is super important. 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:38.880 So the what I've found helpful is one, we have to make things super easy, right? 00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:55.040 We have to everybody in Acor is awesome, they're high achievers and great people, but as companies scale, you have to build an organization that average people like can go and thrive and be super successful in. 00:26:55.040 --> 00:26:55.520 Right. 00:26:55.520 --> 00:26:56.000 Right. 00:26:56.000 --> 00:27:02.560 And that comes down to culture, leadership, and systems. 00:27:02.560 --> 00:27:20.480 So we've done on the system side is that was the whole like thesis of the company is building systems to to make people have our project managers focus on getting the people to the site and getting the work installed with the right materials. 00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:20.960 Right. 00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:21.520 Right. 00:27:21.520 --> 00:28:27.730 So whatever we can shed from their responsibilities of, oh, I gotta update the spreadsheet over here and then I need to go give it to accounting, or somebody drops off these invoices on my desk. 00:28:27.730 --> 00:28:32.130 Now I got to go through them all and like sign them and like review them or call people, blah, blah, blah. 00:28:32.130 --> 00:28:32.450 Right. 00:28:32.450 --> 00:28:41.650 Whatever we can just separate from the key importance of the job is what we focus on the systems side. 00:28:41.650 --> 00:28:49.410 On the culture side, everybody who's joined who's joined Acor was really was joining and very excited about the systems, which is kind of cool. 00:28:49.410 --> 00:28:52.130 It's like, oh, I can go somewhere and like this is what they care about. 00:28:52.130 --> 00:28:52.850 This is awesome. 00:28:52.850 --> 00:28:58.930 Like they actually think about what I'm doing during my day and how to make our jobs easier, right? 00:28:58.930 --> 00:29:12.370 But there's a component of culture I've I've learned, and it took a long time to figure this out, where the the key we tell the individuals in the company that you it's almost like a military thing. 00:29:12.370 --> 00:29:25.090 Like you're you're working alongside people, and you you need to understand that what you're doing affects like everybody else, right? 00:29:25.090 --> 00:29:38.370 And what should if you do everything, if you look at every single thing you're doing on your plate right now and you execute it at the highest level, not just like, oh, great job, you're doing good, but you're helping those around you on your project. 00:29:38.370 --> 00:29:46.210 So it's trying to take themselves out of the picture and like thinking more holistically about the other people in their company, in the company. 00:29:46.210 --> 00:29:47.009 Yeah. 00:29:47.490 --> 00:30:03.090 I think that's so important today because we, I don't know, I feel like we've lost a little bit of humanity a lot of times because we're just there's so much, there's so much noise, there's so much pressure on individuals, especially in this industry, that that it's just hit the grind. 00:30:03.090 --> 00:30:04.450 I gotta keep going through this. 00:30:04.450 --> 00:30:07.810 It's in order to get, like you said, all of these tasks off my back. 00:30:07.810 --> 00:30:09.810 Oh, they're throwing a new technology at me. 00:30:09.810 --> 00:30:14.930 Oh, I'm expected to pick this up right away when I have a thousand other things, right?

00:30:14.930 --> 00:30:21.730 And having having a culture built around the human piece, right? 00:30:21.730 --> 00:30:34.690 Like it's our whole business, our whole industry, yes, we may get a contract to go build something, but that isn't getting built without the humans who are in the business doing it. 00:30:34.690 --> 00:30:37.490 That's that's the service, right? 00:30:37.490 --> 00:30:41.650 Like it's a service-based industry, and that requires humans. 00:30:41.650 --> 00:30:56.850 Um, even with their you know, tools and any kind of innovation that comes into it, the humans are the ones that one, we have emotions, two, we have our um, we're bringing our whole life with us when we show up to work, like you said before. 00:30:56.850 --> 00:31:03.490 You know, Auntie had young kids, you guys were um, your wife was letting you kind of do what you needed to do. 00:31:03.490 --> 00:31:06.130 Like you've actually experienced that as leaders. 00:31:06.130 --> 00:31:10.130 So you're bringing a culture in this says, look, you know, we went through this, we're seeing it. 00:31:10.130 --> 00:31:15.170 We need to solve some of these big problems, but we need to provide the space for humanity. 00:31:15.170 --> 00:31:22.850 And it sounds like what maybe, maybe add on to this, but it sounds a little bit like, hey, we're not gonna judge one another. 00:31:22.850 --> 00:31:31.650 Like we're we're going to provide, like, you know, do your best so that everyone here is doing their best in order to elevate all, right? 00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:33.250 Elevate the business. 00:31:33.250 --> 00:31:37.170 But um, it's kind of a judgment-free zone. 00:31:37.170 --> 00:31:40.850 Like you weren't judging Anthony when you first got started, and he wasn't judging you. 00:31:40.850 --> 00:31:48.130 You guys were just working off of each other's passion and for what you're trying to do to scale business. 00:31:48.130 --> 00:31:51.250 Is that part of the culture? 00:31:51.250 --> 00:31:54.210 Is there, you know, these people are coming in, they're obviously curious. 00:31:54.210 --> 00:32:00.210 People want to know how do you get on a business that is based off the system that has a tech technology behind them, right? 00:32:00.210 --> 00:32:05.570 Like how has that continued to evolve for you and Anthony as a business? 00:32:05.890 --> 00:32:14.610 On the the um humanity kind of piece to the what you're describing there, this is not necessarily an A-core thing. 00:32:14.610 --> 00:32:26.930 This is a uh I think it's a construction company thing in general, where a lot of companies, they're they're marketing, or you'll hear this like you'll see this everywhere on LinkedIn. 00:32:26.930 --> 00:32:35.250 People say the the reason why people choose us or the reason why we're such a great company is because of the people, right? 00:32:35.250 --> 00:32:35.890 Right. 00:32:35.890 --> 00:32:39.730 And at first I it was very naive, young in the industry. 00:32:39.730 --> 00:32:41.250

I was like, okay, that's cool. 00:32:41.250 --> 00:32:44.930 Yeah, great people, but like, how can we be the best like contractor? 00:32:44.930 --> 00:32:46.290 Like, let's go, you know. 00:32:46.290 --> 00:32:52.370 But at the end, as I will wise and up, like of course it is 100% the good pe the people. 00:32:52.370 --> 00:32:59.009 It's such a relationship-driven business for uh which is great, but there's also challenges to that too. 00:32:59.009 --> 00:33:04.370 It's yeah, it's you have to have you have to have the the right people. 00:33:04.370 --> 00:33:17.410 Um but yeah, to your to your quiet, I guess to your your question of um how Anthony and I have um have kind of navigated that, is that what you were? 00:33:17.890 --> 00:33:23.090 Yeah, a little bit of navigating based off of your experiences before you launched ACOR, right? 00:33:23.090 --> 00:33:34.530 You guys were you got connected and you know, the work that you were doing in order to launch Acor, but also launch builds in, like you both have loved experiences. 00:33:34.530 --> 00:33:42.370 Like, how has that helped you frame, you know, your minds around the types of leaders and the types of companies that you want to do? 00:33:42.370 --> 00:33:48.850 Because, like you said, like this can't just be like marketing on our website, it can't just be something that's on our wall. 00:33:48.850 --> 00:33:50.769 It's got to be something that the humans feel. 00:33:50.769 --> 00:33:54.210 Even at first, you're like, well, that might all be, you know, BS. 00:33:54.210 --> 00:33:57.170 Like what that sounds like it's shifted. 00:33:57.170 --> 00:34:04.769 So, how has that framed your your your leadership kind of mindset um as you're running the company? 00:34:04.769 --> 00:34:10.690 Um, helped you be the leader that you want to be for the company that's that's helping the culture? 00:34:11.410 --> 00:34:26.210 Um looking at myself, the one that's honestly like if I was to sum up everything I've learned in leadership, is and I've not taken leadership courses or any of this stuff. 00:34:26.210 --> 00:34:32.610 It's all just like trying to be be the best I can be as as leading these companies, right? 00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:35.730 Is I have to set the example again. 00:34:35.730 --> 00:34:46.370 If I'm if I'm back in the day, if I'm managing a project, I need to do every single thing I would expect of my team to the best of my capabilities, right? 00:34:46.370 --> 00:34:50.610 I'm gonna do my weekly report every single week for my projects, right? 00:34:50.610 --> 00:34:53.410 So that the employees can see that, right? 00:34:53.410 --> 00:35:12.050 It's it's it's so easy for, especially as you get further along in a business, just to kind of like, oh, I'm gonna not you can't take vacations, but I I'm gonna head into the lake every Thursday, Friday, or I'm gonna um I expect you to do these things, but I'm not gonna do it, type of thing. 00:35:12.050 --> 00:35:19.650 It's like you have to I've really tried to look at myself and set standards in both my work but also my personal life, right? 00:35:19.650 --> 00:35:25.170 Um, down to like working out, going to the gym every morning, being disciplined. 00:35:25.170 --> 00:35:31.409 And that has like leaked into the company culture, which has been actually really cool to see. 00:35:31.409 --> 00:35:35.329 Yeah, and taking ownership of things, right? 00:35:35.329 --> 00:35:41.329 When I screw up, which I do, or if I say something that's wrong, like 100% ownership. 00:35:41.329 --> 00:35:50.929 Um one of our superintendents jokes that I I did, I did a um every week I do a things to think about for the company. 00:35:50.929 --> 00:35:55.329 It's like, hey, it's just something to think about um in a weekly report for the company. 00:35:55.329 --> 00:35:58.769 And one of them was like, everything's your fault. 00:35:58.769 --> 00:36:00.210 Right. 00:36:00.210 --> 00:36:02.050 The oh, the sub didn't show up. 00:36:02.050 --> 00:36:03.409 Oh, well, that's kind of that's your fault. 00:36:03.409 --> 00:36:04.849 Like, did you call them the day before? 00:36:04.849 --> 00:36:06.849 Did you make sure they showed up, you know? 00:36:06.849 --> 00:36:11.889 But everything in the both companies, if there's a bug in eight in build Zen, right? 00:36:11.889 --> 00:36:13.169 Oh, that's that's my fault. 00:36:13.169 --> 00:36:14.049 It's my fault. 00:36:14.049 --> 00:36:17.409 Like built, we built it, like it's our our problem to solve. 00:36:17.409 --> 00:36:18.849 So um, yeah. 00:36:18.849 --> 00:36:33.409 So I guess to sum that up is trying to be the best I can be and setting the standards for the company, uh, both personally and like uh at work, obviously, is is the best thing you can do as a leader, right? 00:36:33.409 --> 00:36:35.409 People will pick those things up. 00:36:35.409 --> 00:36:41.329 Yeah either way, if you're if you're the good stuff and the bad stuff. 00:36:41.649 --> 00:36:42.049 Yeah. 00:36:42.049 --> 00:36:43.729 I mean, they're watching, right? 00:36:43.729 --> 00:37:20.369 I mean, and that's you know, sharing that story of why you wanted to kind of hear it as we as we transition and think about, you know, going into the technology side with builds in, but like you're you're you know, not just focused on a technology, you have a construction company and team that you are expanding, like you've relocated, right, to to Nashville, um, main portion of the companies in in the Bay Area, and you are you know still engaged with your team remotely, you're able to lead the team. 00:37:20.369 --> 00:37:45.089 And going back to this mindset thing that you were just you know talking about, like people are going to watch the leader and how the leaders are managing themselves, managing their um interactions, not only with staff, but everyone else outside, how they're interacting online, like all of those things, the messaging, you know, all the way down to the messaging, um, internal and

external. 00:37:45.089 --> 00:37:49.889 And as you said, it's like it can't just be fluff. 00:37:49.889 --> 00:37:57.009 Everyone's going to um ignore that or you know, call it for what it is. 00:37:57.009 --> 00:38:08.929 And as I'm thinking about like, okay, you guys, your problem you're aiming to solve is to create a construction company and build a technology that also solves a lot of problems for other contractors, right? 00:38:08.929 --> 00:38:10.849 Not just not just your own. 00:38:10.849 --> 00:38:23.009 So you're you're helping from a leadership level think about your culture in a way that allows you to then walk into other offices from back in the day when you were first launching, right? 00:38:23.009 --> 00:38:31.089 With your first first client and $5,000 to now and and having a you know a larger amount of clients. 00:38:31.089 --> 00:38:37.729 Like how has your understanding of your own internal team's mindset around technology? 00:38:37.729 --> 00:38:39.729 And you mentioned this before, the integration. 00:38:39.729 --> 00:38:43.409 It's not just like one, you don't you can't just put the tech in, right? 00:38:43.409 --> 00:38:44.289 And run. 00:38:44.289 --> 00:39:01.409 There's all of these other, you know, there's the CEO, there's uh ops, there's finance, and all of these people are going to bring their own ideas and their own um sort of life experiences and and and baggage around change fatigue with technology. 00:39:01.409 --> 00:39:22.289 So, how how has this journey helped you as you've grown through it to take builds in further and said, this is what we've learned about our mindsets, like the obstacles and the challenges, and what are those most commonly that you hear as you're out in the market trying to now help other companies? 00:39:22.609 --> 00:39:29.809 Yeah, it's it's the th I'll I will tell you there's a lot of learning going on right now on that front. 00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:33.089 Um working with other general contractors. 00:39:33.089 --> 00:39:36.849 Acor had such a unique foundation. 00:39:36.849 --> 00:39:38.689 This is what we're about. 00:39:38.689 --> 00:39:47.809 We build software, we try to improve things, you don't use it, you don't aren't thinking about those things, you don't work here, right? 00:39:47.809 --> 00:39:52.849 So we didn't have that that like legacy mindset. 00:39:52.849 --> 00:39:57.809 Um obviously these people are coming from different companies, but like, hey, that's part of the program. 00:39:57.809 --> 00:40:03.729 Like you when you join here, like this is this is what we expect, right? 00:40:03.729 --> 00:40:12.689 So we had an unfair advantage in that sense of uh of setting that that culture up front. 00:40:12.689 --> 00:40:14.689 And that's a lot of like the reason why people join. 00:40:14.689 --> 00:40:17.489 They want to be around other people like that, you know? 00:40:17.489 --> 00:40:26.449 Um now injecting systems and technology into other companies is very challenging. 00:40:27.089 --> 00:40:27.729 Yeah. 00:40:28.449 --> 00:40:33.089 Um something we've been fortunate with is like we get to work with new GCs, right? 00:40:33.089 --> 00:40:33.729 Right. 00:40:33.729 --> 00:40:41.249 Like Bravo in Indiana and a couple in the Bay Area, um, one in Alabama. 00:40:41.249 --> 00:40:45.329 They these were all companies that are just like under a year old. 00:40:45.329 --> 00:40:45.729 Yeah. 00:40:45.729 --> 00:41:00.609 So they don't have that structure of somebody who's been in in accounting or in the office for 20 years, and now it's like we're shaking things up, you know? 00:41:00.609 --> 00:41:05.809 So that is helpful, but now we we are expanding into some more uh sophisticated companies. 00:41:05.809 --> 00:41:16.929 Uh one of the users of BuildZen is um an older company, but somebody actually acquired it and was a is a partner in the company and looking to improve the company with Build Zen. 00:41:16.929 --> 00:41:23.569 And it so we have um a different, let's say, user base in that in that company. 00:41:23.569 --> 00:41:28.369 And there's there's a lot of training, which which is fine. 00:41:28.369 --> 00:41:31.409 Like training is that's expected, 100% training. 00:41:31.409 --> 00:41:36.689 Um, but I would imagine there's a little bit of resistance inside the company, right? 00:41:36.689 --> 00:41:43.569 And you know, I don't I don't know how that problem is to be solved, to be honest. 00:41:44.209 --> 00:41:51.889 Yeah, it's um it's you know, being in change management now and kind of having gone through that, right? 00:41:51.889 --> 00:42:00.929 Running a construction company myself, it's like as you're bringing in a new process and you're layering in new technology, how do you not burn a team out? 00:42:00.929 --> 00:42:07.489 Like pulling the plug on one, pulling, you know, this didn't work, or half the team's not doing it. 00:42:07.489 --> 00:42:24.849 And as you're as you're describing, it's like, yeah, I mean, there is a status, it's like 70% of change initiative change initiatives tend to fail their objectives because it's not the technology isn't functioning, or could be the wrong answer, right? 00:42:24.849 --> 00:42:32.049 But that goes back to the humans who are first contemplating bringing this solution in. 00:42:32.049 --> 00:42:37.009 And like you're describing the mindset, there's a legacy mindset. 00:42:37.009 --> 00:42:45.649 There's a tend to hold on to that known because one, what am I gonna lose when I start doing this? 00:42:45.649 --> 00:42:49.249 Like there, there's something that I've been doing for a long time, and what am I gonna lose? 00:42:49.249 --> 00:42:51.489 Is this going to imp, you know, how's it gonna impact me? 00:42:51.489 --> 00:42:55.249 What's it gonna cost me, time, energy, yeah, whatever it is, right? 00:42:55.249 --> 00:43:12.289 So a lot of the times the the way I I mean, it's the way I think about change in our industry is like before before the technology is

sort of implemented, it can't fix a process that's already broken because the humans haven't understood it. 00:43:12.289 --> 00:43:20.849 Or maybe as you're initiating in a change, like the the human, we have to understand the humans' relationship with change, is what I always say. 00:43:20.849 --> 00:43:23.009 Is like what what have they been through? 00:43:23.009 --> 00:43:29.889 What is their life experience and how you know you're looking for those key words and as you're implementing it? 00:43:29.889 --> 00:43:32.369 This is for other leaders who are going to implement it, right? 00:43:32.369 --> 00:43:32.689 Yeah. 00:43:32.689 --> 00:43:35.249 It's like you gotta be, you gotta slow down. 00:43:35.249 --> 00:43:36.129 You can't rush. 00:43:36.129 --> 00:43:41.009 I know you paid for the software and you want it to happen, but if you rush through it, it's not gonna work. 00:43:41.009 --> 00:43:53.009 But if you slow down and spend more time up front on understanding, you know, the communication, not just, hey, we're going to do this, it doesn't stop at the town hall. 00:43:53.009 --> 00:44:03.649 It is oversight from a mindset standpoint of helping people name the fear that they have with the software or the change or whatever's going into it. 00:44:03.649 --> 00:44:13.169 So it is a human, and I mean, from from my perspective, like it's a it's a human thing that leaders, you know, have to understand. 00:44:13.169 --> 00:44:18.369 Now, technology side, like their job, right, you you got to train them. 00:44:18.369 --> 00:44:23.009 You're you got to train the team uh to know the software and to be able to implement it. 00:44:23.009 --> 00:44:50.609 But the leaders, directors, leaders, project managers, or you know, if you create a zone of psychological safety, which means people can speak freely about how they're feeling in the moment about this change, then it begins to open up a dialogue to where they can say, well, I'm gonna lose control of this, or I didn't make this choice, so therefore I'm just gonna, I'm just not going to do it, or I'm going to resist it, um, for a reason A, B, and C. 00:44:50.609 --> 00:45:01.329 But the real question has to be is what are you controlling now that um you know that you that you see is more valuable than this? 00:45:01.329 --> 00:45:14.689 Like what um what choice would you be making, you know, right now that's different, or just asking different questions of groups to try to understand from that human piece, like, hey, the technology is not the easy button. 00:45:14.689 --> 00:45:16.689 You can't be a passenger in this change. 00:45:16.689 --> 00:45:23.409 You've got to be a participant in it, which means it can't be felt like from the human perspective, it's forced compliance. 00:45:23.409 --> 00:45:40.289 If it feels like it's a will they can be a willing participant in it, then I think they, you know, they tend to kind of again come in to be a participant, allows themselves to ask different questions, the freedom of the freedom to slow down. 00:45:40.689 --> 00:45:51.809 You what you know what's been cool, actually, uh, because of the the stage of build-in and um and how fast we can actually like do things with new new software development tools and AI. 00:45:51.809 --> 00:45:58.769 We've seen maybe some resistance, and then they come back and they say, Hey, this is a problem, like it's I won't like it to work this way. 00:45:58.769 --> 00:46:01.889 And the next day it works that way. 00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:13.889 And they become a lot more uh yeah um excited and like having that say in actually how the software can change and be developed. 00:46:13.889 --> 00:46:20.769 Yeah, it it changes them themselves, like on it for using the software, right? 00:46:20.929 --> 00:46:23.569 So that's actually been really cool to see. 00:46:23.569 --> 00:46:35.089 You're giving a feedback loop now to where they're able to they may not have made the initial choice, but they can say, like, hey, this is impacting me, and they're actually seeing they they're getting a small dopamine hit, right? 00:46:35.089 --> 00:46:39.249 They're getting a win because now it's working, now it's functioning. 00:46:39.249 --> 00:46:51.729 Um, and I think that's one of the things of change is like it seems like it the change habits a like it's an event, like it's a one time thing, but this thing happens over a long period of time, and that's where the space comes in. 00:46:51.729 --> 00:46:58.209 Like you're saying, is like just because the technology is sort of like there, the change doesn't end. 00:46:58.209 --> 00:47:01.249 Like it's an ongoing, which is what you're you're describing there. 00:47:01.249 --> 00:47:11.409 The these small wins, like breaking it down into these small wins versus like re we are heading to where we are more efficient as a company. 00:47:11.409 --> 00:47:13.409 It doesn't happen instantaneously. 00:47:13.729 --> 00:47:13.809 Yeah. 00:47:13.809 --> 00:47:15.009 And it makes our life easier. 00:47:15.009 --> 00:47:20.929 Like if we can add a little button or a little filter or a different export and like, oh wow, my life's easier. 00:47:20.929 --> 00:47:28.049 Then they see the value and what the leadership of the company was uh pitching to them, right? 00:47:28.049 --> 00:47:28.609 In a sense. 00:47:28.849 --> 00:47:29.329 Yep. 00:47:29.329 --> 00:47:30.209 Yeah. 00:47:30.209 --> 00:47:40.369 So talk, talk a little bit, um, Casey, then about you know, this problem as you thinking back to when you first started kind of diving into why you wanted to do what you wanted to do. 00:47:40.369 --> 00:47:50.849 Like, what made it so important for you and Anthony, like when you first started working on it, that you stayed with it when that you were running out of cash and doing all these things. 00:47:50.849 --> 00:47:54.289 Like, what makes it so important to solve this? 00:47:54.289 --> 00:47:58.369 Not only you know, for Acor when you started or

for Belsen, but for the industry? 00:47:58.369 --> 00:47:59.809 Like, what makes it important to you? 00:48:00.209 --> 00:48:01.329 Yeah, yeah. 00:48:01.329 --> 00:48:06.449 Um we are cockroaches, we we say we're hard to kill. 00:48:06.449 --> 00:48:10.369 We scrape the bottom, you just help to kill us. 00:48:10.369 --> 00:48:11.969 So that's why we've kept going. 00:48:11.969 --> 00:48:17.809 It's this cockroach mentality of of just not giving, not giving up at all. 00:48:17.809 --> 00:48:21.569 Um, and we've been doing it for a long time, which has been it's been really cool. 00:48:21.569 --> 00:48:27.249 Lots of challenging conversations between Anthony and I over the years, but um yeah, we're still working together. 00:48:27.249 --> 00:48:33.569 Um but I I the problem has evolved in a sense, like we're what we're trying to solve. 00:48:33.569 --> 00:48:46.129 Initially, it was our problem is to be the best, like build systems to go compete against these other companies and like be the best, which is which is fine. 00:48:46.129 --> 00:48:50.369 But now it's it's evolved maybe like I don't know, several years ago. 00:48:50.369 --> 00:49:05.169 The problem both with Acor on the construction side and then Build Zen is to provide the best construction experience, provide an exceptional construction experience, right? 00:49:05.169 --> 00:49:15.889 So initially it was all about us, but quickly realize after you know working with clients, oh, it's not about you, it's about their experience, right? 00:49:15.889 --> 00:49:26.049 They're I've I people say budget or um schedule, like oh, those are the biggest problems in construction because everything's behind or over budget. 00:49:26.049 --> 00:49:26.449 Yeah. 00:49:26.449 --> 00:49:31.569 But I take that a step higher and say it's about the construction experience. 00:49:31.569 --> 00:49:32.609 Because guess what? 00:49:32.609 --> 00:49:36.529 The project's over with budget, that's a pretty terrible experience, right? 00:49:36.529 --> 00:49:39.169 For everybody involved, yeah, right? 00:49:39.169 --> 00:49:43.329 If somebody gets hurt on the site, that's a really bad experience for your client. 00:49:43.329 --> 00:49:46.529 And obviously the individual who's getting hurt, right? 00:49:46.529 --> 00:49:55.329 Um, so trying to take ourselves out of that equation and really focus on the experience with our clients and then even just on the sub side. 00:49:55.329 --> 00:50:05.089 A lot of build Zen is built around having the subs um have a better GC and sub relationship and experience, right? 00:50:05.089 --> 00:50:13.409 We do stuff for them, we fill out per preliminary notices for them and send them out so they can file their preliminary notices uh with all the correct information. 00:50:13.409 --> 00:50:14.129 Yeah, right. 00:50:14.129 --> 00:50:16.209 We make it easy to forward uh something along. 00:50:16.209 --> 00:50:17.649 We pay them super quick. 00:50:17.649 --> 00:50:22.449 We build ACH networks or flows to pay them right when we've been paid. 00:50:22.449 --> 00:50:24.049 Um right. 00:50:24.049 --> 00:50:31.329 So it's it's about the experience, I think, for everybody is the main problem that we're we're trying to solve. 00:50:31.329 --> 00:50:33.009 And now it's other GCs, right? 00:50:33.009 --> 00:50:40.609 They're using build zen, and there's their experience using the software, which is very important, kind of like our focus. 00:50:40.609 --> 00:50:49.569 But it's the same thing, just as Acor, we want their clients and subs to experience a better construction process while using Build Zen. 00:50:49.569 --> 00:50:50.769 Yeah. 00:50:51.809 --> 00:51:08.769 I mean, that I I think about like not the experience of what the public see, right, from a construction side, all the way through, like you said, into the into the sub trades, that it is it has been a difficult experience. 00:51:08.769 --> 00:51:15.569 I've been around construction and architecture, you know, 20, what uh 25, 30 years now. 00:51:15.569 --> 00:51:18.209 It's it has an image issue, right? 00:51:18.209 --> 00:51:25.649 We've had numerous conversations where the construction industry gets an image issue, and that image issue is not only external, it is internal. 00:51:25.649 --> 00:51:30.849 It's how we we feel and are impacted as humans, going back to your human piece, right? 00:51:30.849 --> 00:51:36.289 Like that this isn't the the experience needs to be great for the client. 00:51:36.289 --> 00:51:46.769 It needs to be great, you know, feel a lot different for for your sub trades, like the fact that you're setting things up to make sure they're getting paid and helping them get cash flow. 00:51:46.769 --> 00:51:53.489 I mean filling out pre-leans, like I don't know anybody that's doing doing those types of things, but that's that's huge. 00:51:53.489 --> 00:52:00.849 It's like they don't have like they may not have the bandwidth, but if they're bogged down with things, they can't make your project flow, right? 00:52:00.849 --> 00:52:03.729 So eventually, like you said, it's gonna be overscheduled. 00:52:03.729 --> 00:52:08.049 Someone's going to feel this if we're not solving some of these problems. 00:52:08.049 --> 00:52:12.769 And it, you know, make you, I think you're spot on. 00:52:12.769 --> 00:52:28.049 Like when I think about like that experience, like it is critical that we solve, you know, even the minor, a minor thing makes the experience so much better for two parties, three, the whole, you know, the whole project. 00:52:28.049 --> 00:52:33.809 Because some I saw something, somebody said, is there any such thing as a perfect project? 00:52:33.809 --> 00:52:45.649 And I was thinking, like, before you said this, I was like, it should, it should feel like a good experience for the client that they got the project that they wanted, right? 00:52:45.649 --> 00:52:49.649 Like when I'm thinking as an architect, it was never about me. 00:52:49.649 -->

00:53:03.409 Like they should have had a better feel that as an architect or even in construction, that they were not just getting a building, that this thing wasn't so painful that they were like, I'm never building again, right? 00:53:03.409 --> 00:53:04.609 Like, I'm never gonna do this. 00:53:04.849 --> 00:53:05.249 Oh, yeah. 00:53:05.249 --> 00:53:08.049 You can hit those metrics and be on budget on schedule. 00:53:08.049 --> 00:53:09.729 Everything's fine at the end of the day. 00:53:09.729 --> 00:53:14.849 But if your client's constantly hounding you, like, hey, where's where's this my updated schedule? 00:53:14.849 --> 00:53:16.049 Like, where's the costs? 00:53:16.049 --> 00:53:18.929 But like the change change event that was coming through. 00:53:18.929 --> 00:53:21.569 Like, I'm constantly trying to bother you. 00:53:21.569 --> 00:53:29.009 Like, yeah, that's it's just that's a losing job, you know, even though it hit the the paper metrics, right? 00:53:29.009 --> 00:53:33.809 Uh we've told a lot of and hopefully like builds NGCs take this too. 00:53:33.809 --> 00:53:47.809 We tell our our our team at Accor, your job is to help your client get a promotion or a bonus or a raise, whatever it is, right? 00:53:47.809 --> 00:54:00.849 Yeah, if you if they report about their projects, and because they're working on an A Cor project, they have all the uh updated information, they're reporting to their bosses awesome, everything's smooth, they're gonna look good. 00:54:00.849 --> 00:54:05.969 Like, what can we do to make them look good and help their careers along, right? 00:54:05.969 --> 00:54:11.809 Um so it's yeah, it's it's different than residential, right? 00:54:11.809 --> 00:54:21.329 Like their job is to manage the construction compared to oh, it was my part-time job to manage my home like kitchen renovation or something. 00:54:21.649 --> 00:54:22.209 Right. 00:54:22.209 --> 00:54:22.769 Right. 00:54:22.769 --> 00:54:25.329 I mean, you're talking about you know, being a leader, right? 00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:33.649 It's like managing something in a task versus like trying to understand a purpose of a business. 00:54:33.649 --> 00:54:37.249 Like, what is this business, you know, business even exists? 00:54:37.249 --> 00:54:38.609 This is our purpose. 00:54:38.609 --> 00:54:42.609 The purpose is to ensure that the other humans have that experience, like you said. 00:54:42.609 --> 00:54:49.489 And um, yeah, we we should all want to make other people, people look better. 00:54:49.489 --> 00:55:03.329 And I think that's a it's a powerful kind of way to frame it when I think like we we're very individual, you know, we're driven to be individual, or we we tie our identity to what we do. 00:55:03.329 --> 00:55:08.529 And the reality is like you only get to do what you're doing because there are other people willing to bring you in. 00:55:08.529 --> 00:55:15.649 Like, so you are your brand is more than the name, it is more than saying it's all about our people. 00:55:15.649 --> 00:55:28.769 It literally is your ability to see the humans and drive a process that is smoother for everybody than what we come what we're currently and always have felt for the industry. 00:55:28.769 --> 00:55:35.169 But yeah, um what do you think, uh, Casey? 00:55:35.169 --> 00:55:42.609 From you know, you guys are running your own construction company, but also you know, with builds in, like we talked about the importance. 00:55:42.609 --> 00:55:52.689 The importance is we got to make it a better, better experience with the problem that you're aiming to you know solve with all of these solutions or technology and as you're working uh with contractors. 00:55:52.689 --> 00:56:27.569 But like what happened, what do you what do you think if if if this isn't solved, like what not only for ACOR, but like what do you think continues to happen if if we don't as an industry go back to some of the things you said, training younger individuals on what all of this stuff means about project accounting or project budget and the tracking and the paperwork, you know, as well as like not understanding like our responsibility in the industry is about making it a better experience, whether it's roads or hospitals, whatever it is we're building. 00:56:27.569 --> 00:56:28.369 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:56:28.369 --> 00:56:31.009 What do you think the cost is to the industry? 00:56:31.329 --> 00:56:35.889 Okay, my uh venture capital pitch deck answer is humanity will suffer. 00:56:36.449 --> 00:56:37.809 I like it, yes. 00:56:38.449 --> 00:56:40.929 Um yeah, less things will get built, right? 00:56:40.929 --> 00:56:43.569 People don't want to be involved in this industry. 00:56:43.569 --> 00:56:44.769 We'll have less talent. 00:56:44.769 --> 00:56:46.289 I think that's a big part of it, too. 00:56:46.289 --> 00:57:04.209 It's like it's hard to attract um the PMs or even like obviously the the field labor and um the trades, like it's hard to attract people without the system, like the especially with AI and like the systems that can be developed in the future, you know, less less things will be built. 00:57:04.209 --> 00:57:08.289 There'd be less people to build things, less clients will want to be involved, right? 00:57:08.289 --> 00:57:13.969 If there's less people to build, back to like econ, there's gonna be uh higher prices, right? 00:57:13.969 --> 00:57:14.849 There you go. 00:57:14.849 --> 00:57:17.569 Which limits limits supply, right? 00:57:17.569 --> 00:57:19.329 Of the what's getting built. 00:57:19.329 --> 00:57:28.929 So yeah, I I mean that's like at the end of the day, again, like the VC response is yeah, less things are gonna get built, right? 00:57:28.929 --> 00:57:31.009 Yeah, people are not gonna enjoy the industry. 00:57:31.249 --> 00:57:39.729 Oh, I whether it's VC or or not, I think that is that is a great answer because we we're building for our communities, right? 00:57:39.729 --> 00:57:41.329 Like, why do we do

what we do? 00:57:41.329 --> 00:57:50.289 Well, we you know, thinking back to architecture and even getting construction, like we're doing this because our communities deserve better than they have right now. 00:57:50.289 --> 00:57:53.569 Um there's my VC pitch deck, right? 00:57:53.569 --> 00:57:54.289 Right, exactly. 00:57:54.289 --> 00:57:57.089 It is it is a humanity, otherwise, what what are we doing? 00:57:57.089 --> 00:57:59.409 We don't design buildings to sit empty, right? 00:57:59.409 --> 00:58:03.009 That's not that is not what we're supposed to be doing. 00:58:03.009 --> 00:58:16.609 We're supposed to create spaces that people, you know, make memories in and you know constantly come back into their mindstream and constantly want to want to be you know an occupant of. 00:58:16.609 --> 00:58:21.009 Not if if they don't want to, and it's it's a hospital or something, right? 00:58:21.009 --> 00:58:25.889 It should feel like more of a human piece to them, right? 00:58:25.889 --> 00:58:30.689 It shouldn't feel cold, which is our infrastructure is crumbling with healthcare. 00:58:30.689 --> 00:58:35.809 We got we got health systems, you know, disappearing from rural America. 00:58:35.809 --> 00:58:39.809 We have all kinds of you know issues with schools and things. 00:58:39.809 --> 00:58:48.129 And that is our going back to your pitch, Dick, like we if we're not building it for humanity, then who are we doing it for? 00:58:48.129 --> 00:58:49.809 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 00:58:49.809 --> 00:59:00.929 So the next generation, as you're saying, the next generation doesn't want to come into this, but we're also who wants to stay in it if that's the experience that they're having any anyway. 00:59:01.409 --> 00:59:17.089 Yeah, and to to drill down on the individual level, most people just want to go to their project or go to their company, do a really good job, not have anything like bog them down. 00:59:17.089 --> 00:59:27.089 Or yeah, of course there's gonna be general annoyances of things, but they don't want to have things outside of their control limit, you know, them doing their job. 00:59:27.089 --> 00:59:31.089 And then they want to go home and be with their family and like show up the next day. 00:59:31.089 --> 00:59:42.449 Not everybody wants to go build the next revolutionary thing or like be start their own companies and all of that, which is which is awesome and and totally totally fine. 00:59:42.449 --> 00:59:46.689 But without good systems, they're not gonna have that experience, right? 00:59:46.689 --> 00:59:48.929 They're gonna go to work pissed off and like, oh my gosh. 00:59:48.929 --> 00:59:57.969 Okay, today I am taking data over here and I'm putting in the spreadsheet and then like accounting's on my butt because I don't have my payout done, right? 00:59:57.969 --> 00:59:58.769 Yep. 00:59:58.769 --> 01:00:04.609 Instead of like, I'm gonna walk my job, I'm gonna point out some issues and like work my super to figure stuff out, you know. 01:00:04.609 --> 01:00:06.689 So that's kind of the drilled down. 01:00:06.689 --> 01:00:11.409 Um, if we don't solve this, like that's what's gonna happen to people. 01:00:11.649 --> 01:00:12.049 Yeah. 01:00:12.049 --> 01:00:22.609 It is, I mean, there's so much noise and pressure and exhaustion, and like people don't feel like they have enough anything, right? 01:00:22.609 --> 01:00:29.809 Like it's I got more of this, the pressure, the noise, and all of these things happening in my life, costs increasing. 01:00:29.809 --> 01:00:36.849 And as you said, like going into work, you know, pissed off is not what anybody wants. 01:00:36.849 --> 01:00:37.169 Yeah. 01:00:37.169 --> 01:00:46.289 And that, and I think that going back to like the field, like I I could remember a number of conversations with people like, well, you know, the crusty old site superintendent. 01:00:46.289 --> 01:00:59.249 And it's like, well, they're probably not, they're just they have too much friction because of the systems, or because like someone else has a lot of frictions that they're not getting what they need, right? 01:00:59.249 --> 01:01:00.689 So it's a terrible experience. 01:01:00.689 --> 01:01:03.169 So why are we labeling everybody? 01:01:03.169 --> 01:01:05.169 Like, one, they're human, as you said. 01:01:05.169 --> 01:01:09.889 They want, they they they have their basic needs and they want those met. 01:01:09.889 --> 01:01:15.729 And they want to know that in the end of the day that they built something amazing for someone else. 01:01:15.729 --> 01:01:26.769 But if there's so much friction in our system, our process or systems, if they're not aligned with with the core business of what it is, right? 01:01:26.769 --> 01:01:31.809 Like it's you know, I think about running a company that did not have an ERP system. 01:01:31.809 --> 01:01:33.969 And I was like, what is this? 01:01:33.969 --> 01:01:43.249 Like you get the financial reports, and you know, the GP is you know swinging 100% each month, and you're like, this makes no sense. 01:01:43.249 --> 01:01:45.169 Like none of the projects are running this way. 01:01:45.169 --> 01:02:15.889 So you whether you're the leader who can't see the business and get the data, or you're the site superintendent who can't get what they need because there's too much friction in the middle, with you know, we don't have enough labor force to take care of things on the field, let alone the office, and and then stack on top of that like old software, or half the team wants new software and half the team doesn't, or some people aren't following protocol, people don't know, and that's yeah you know, another thing. 01:02:15.889 --> 01:02:30.369 But yeah, I know um yeah, it can feel like a lot to say, hey, you know, all of humanity, but I'm glad you shared the purpose because we need more of that in this industry. 01:02:30.369 --> 01:02:41.569 I want to see the next generation come in and feel like they're coming into an

industry that doesn't we don't have to keep saying like it's it they're slow to change or hard to change. 01:02:41.569 --> 01:02:45.489 It's like coming in an industry to help with changeability. 01:02:45.489 --> 01:02:51.169 We're helping people see what's possible and why we're doing what we're doing. 01:02:51.489 --> 01:02:52.129 Yeah. 01:02:52.129 --> 01:03:00.769 It's just last thing on that on this, when you mentioned that 20-year-old super, it just got me thinking, or like 30, 40-year-old uh year super, right? 01:03:00.769 --> 01:03:13.809 I feel like they're probably just pissed off and and having that attitude in a sense of things in like as a in the GC world, yeah, there's way more process and like protocols. 01:03:13.809 --> 01:03:19.729 And I don't think that's any like um, I don't think that's gonna go away, right? 01:03:19.729 --> 01:03:20.129 Right. 01:03:20.129 --> 01:03:29.409 Like when they probably first started is like, oh, I'll just take my daily report my real quick, my notes, but now I'm doing a pre-test plan, I got a safety plan, I gotta update my three-week, I gotta now update the schedule, I gotta do this, I gotta that. 01:03:29.409 --> 01:03:35.969 Like there's stuff that's just piled on of process and paperwork, and especially at the big GCs, right? 01:03:35.969 --> 01:03:41.569 They just they hammer the projects with the CYA type of junk. 01:03:41.569 --> 01:03:53.729 And I'm kind of optimistic now, especially with AI and like new tools, and you know, what we can even do at Build Zen is like, can we still achieve those things, but make the life easier of that super, right? 01:03:53.729 --> 01:03:55.409 So they're not so pissed off. 01:03:55.729 --> 01:03:56.289 Yeah. 01:03:56.609 --> 01:03:56.849 No. 01:03:57.089 --> 01:03:59.009 Anyways, no, it's fair. 01:03:59.009 --> 01:04:01.489 It's it it that's probably spot on. 01:04:01.489 --> 01:04:13.809 And that's the reality, is they've they've been able to build a lot of buildings in their career and then suddenly find themselves just like buried in a broken system and a process where nobody knows why they're doing what they're doing. 01:04:13.809 --> 01:04:19.169 It's just someone decided this is what we had to do for, like you said, the CYA piece. 01:04:19.169 --> 01:04:37.169 And and frankly, yeah, it's because you know, back in the day with thinking about master builders and the way we used to do it, like it only got got this way because we broke everything up into silos, we split everything up, like attorneys got more involved in things, right? 01:04:37.169 --> 01:04:39.409 And but we're the humans. 01:04:39.409 --> 01:04:41.489 Like I always say this like, we're the humans. 01:04:41.489 --> 01:05:02.129 Like, I know it feels like we can't drive change, but we we can have conversations with people that suddenly we learn that there is someone out there, like like a Casey and an Anthony, like doing builds in, or there's someone out there that is trying to drive change

in a policy or drive change somewhere else. 01:05:02.129 --> 01:05:21.809 That it's all being done because there's so many people like yourself and others that are like, we can't we can't just keep shoving technology down, but we do need to figure out how we're going to get the humans connected to these things so that they so we can go address the needs of our communities. 01:05:21.809 --> 01:05:22.289 Yeah. 01:05:22.289 --> 01:05:25.729 So all right, so put your VC hat back on. 01:05:25.729 --> 01:05:35.409 And and talk a little bit about like you've you've been on this journey, but you mentioned was it 2012, 2014 that you were sitting on bargain? 01:05:35.409 --> 01:05:38.209 Yeah, about then, yeah, 2013, 14. 01:05:38.209 --> 01:05:39.169 Okay, yeah. 01:05:39.169 --> 01:05:51.249 So I'm sure I'm sure things have shifted since then, but you continue to advance builds in and you're continuing to grow A um Acor. 01:05:51.249 --> 01:05:51.889 Correct. 01:05:51.889 --> 01:06:06.129 But if you take a step back and you say, like, you know, for yourself and Anthony, your businesses and the industry, what how do you describe success um for all of those areas in your life? 01:06:06.129 --> 01:06:09.409 Oh, that's that's a heavy question. 01:06:10.689 --> 01:06:13.489 Um it's you know, Anthony and I talk about this all the time. 01:06:13.489 --> 01:06:24.849 Um, what we're doing is very hard, like with running these two things, especially now two construction markets, and then trying to service the the build-send customers and really think and iterate. 01:06:24.849 --> 01:06:28.209 The good thing about that is they they help each other, right? 01:06:28.209 --> 01:06:28.529 Yeah. 01:06:28.529 --> 01:06:35.409 So the better we make the product, the more feedback we even get from other people in the market using the product makes Acor better. 01:06:35.409 --> 01:06:39.089 Um, so there's there's some synergy there for sure. 01:06:39.089 --> 01:06:42.129 Success for either, right? 01:06:42.129 --> 01:06:44.849 Acor becomes a national GC. 01:06:44.849 --> 01:06:53.409 Um, you know, really scaling that culture we've already set, which would be really cool to see, right? 01:06:53.409 --> 01:07:00.049 Um and then build Zen is as used by as many GCs as possible, right? 01:07:00.049 --> 01:07:03.729 Our focus right now is the we call them the rebels, right? 01:07:03.729 --> 01:07:09.089 The either the rebel who broke out against uh and started their own company, right? 01:07:09.089 --> 01:07:18.289 From a big GC and is like a rebel kind of entrepreneur type, or somebody who just wants to not use uh Autodesk or Procore, right? 01:07:18.289 --> 01:07:21.729 And they want to kind of take a different path. 01:07:21.729 --> 01:07:26.849 So our focus is are those are those people and scaling that up. 01:07:26.849 --> 01:07:32.529 Um and then I as far as high-level industry, it just goes back to like humanity, right? 01:07:32.529 --> 01:07:38.689 Of like success is building more things more efficiently, faster, better. 01:07:38.689 --> 01:07:45.409 And I'm so optimistic about AI because I could see it on our software development side. 01:07:45.409 --> 01:07:50.609 Yeah, we we've been pushing code, like it would take months to do a day's worth of work. 01:07:50.609 --> 01:07:51.969 It's it's wild. 01:07:51.969 --> 01:08:03.089 And so I think I think uh the optimism for the industry overall is applying that to different areas of the uh of the construction process. 01:08:03.089 --> 01:08:18.529 It's obviously way more difficult than ones and zeros in an excited computer, but um, I think success will look like just more things being built, more places we can go and experience, uh, more hospitals, like just a higher level quality of life for everybody. 01:08:18.849 --> 01:08:19.010 Yeah. 01:08:19.010 --> 01:08:24.449 I mean, it's thinking about what you mentioned with AI. 01:08:24.449 --> 01:08:26.289 I I see this all the time. 01:08:26.289 --> 01:08:31.809 There's somebody's talking about AI, or there's somewhere like, well, AI won't put a new plumbing line in. 01:08:31.809 --> 01:08:39.090 AI won't do, you know, it's all it's like, well, you're defining what AI is by saying that's what it's going to do. 01:08:39.090 --> 01:09:01.329 What you're describing is taking some of these friction points and tasks that we all feel in the industry that need to be done, but frankly, our what we do as humans would be far more valuable by doing the things out on the site and doing the buildings and you know, other innovation that can that can support us because we have that shrink. 01:09:01.329 --> 01:09:02.609 Labor force. 01:09:02.609 --> 01:09:20.050 And going back to something else you said, like with that shrinking labor force, you know, economics 101, the cost's only going to go up because we can't increase supply of any of this stuff, let alone the humans who want to be in the industry and come into the industry. 01:09:20.050 --> 01:09:28.369 So I think it is, I think we're at a point where there's there's a lot of things being thrown at us as humans. 01:09:28.369 --> 01:09:31.250 AI is talked about at every conference. 01:09:31.250 --> 01:09:38.130 Not all of it is you know what we might think it is or what it could be. 01:09:38.130 --> 01:09:41.489 It's going to go through a lot of testing and a lot of trying. 01:09:41.489 --> 01:09:46.130 But I think as humans, this goes back to the mindset that you were talking about before. 01:09:46.130 --> 01:09:50.849 Like we can we can find our own agency in that moment. 01:09:50.849 --> 01:09:54.609 We can figure out like what is the best use for it, like you're doing with coding. 01:09:54.609 --> 01:10:00.210 We can find it and apply it to uh do things you know from the finance side. 01:10:00.210 --> 01:10:11.970 Like that's one of the biggest pieces, marketing, things like that, that allow allow a company to scale without needing to, you know, have the workforce they have,

right? 01:10:11.970 --> 01:10:15.090 Without needing to keep adding, which doesn't exist anyway. 01:10:15.090 --> 01:10:27.889 Uh so I think something else you said of was important, and I do think I think you're what you're describing from the market size and the work you guys are doing, those um rebels, as you call them. 01:10:27.889 --> 01:10:31.409 I know one of them, you already mentioned his company name. 01:10:31.409 --> 01:10:38.449 Um Procore is is a tool that's right for certain people in certain areas and builds in as a tool. 01:10:38.449 --> 01:10:51.170 But I was talking to to um someone here in Cleveland that was, you know, they do a lot of work with subcontractors, small to med-sized contractors, and it's just like they can't afford to bring these softwares in. 01:10:51.170 --> 01:11:08.289 So there needs to be this solution, right, that you're talking about that is going to help smaller subs, smaller GCs um, you know, come into the market and get off the ground because we know it takes five plus years to even really get going. 01:11:08.289 --> 01:11:13.889 And sometimes we can't make it past two because you can't see the cash flow, you can't see the information. 01:11:13.889 --> 01:11:15.409 So yep, yep. 01:11:15.409 --> 01:11:15.970 100%. 01:11:15.970 --> 01:11:19.969 That is that is a critical thing that you guys are aiming to solve. 01:11:19.969 --> 01:11:27.809 Um, you guys are going about your scaling in a way that works works well with you and the clients that you're bringing in and getting them onboarded. 01:11:27.809 --> 01:11:46.849 Um so I I appreciate your willingness to come on and talk about your your you know, your story, how you've gotten into your leadership, being CEO and co-founder of both of these companies and working with Anthony, but also getting through like what it is that you guys really want to achieve with Accor and with Builds In. 01:11:46.849 --> 01:11:50.289 So I appreciate you being willing to come on activating curiosity. 01:11:50.609 --> 01:11:51.729 Yeah, absolutely, Ryan. 01:11:51.729 --> 01:11:52.449 Thank you for having me. 01:11:52.449 --> 01:11:53.170 I had a good time. 01:11:53.170 --> 01:11:54.929 Yeah, thanks, Casey. 01:11:55.089 --> 01:11:59.250 Um, I look forward to catching up next time, but but uh we'll talk soon. 01:11:59.250 --> 01:11:59.969 All right. 01:11:59.969 --> 01:12:00.609 Thank you. 01:12:00.609 --> 01:12:01.250 Thanks. 01:12:01.250 --> 01:12:07.969 So that is the episode with Casey Bell, CEO and co-founder of Acor and Builds In. 01:12:07.969 --> 01:12:15.809 And gotten to got to know him over the last year, getting to sit down with him in Nashville, but just kind of understanding his backstory. 01:12:15.809 --> 01:12:30.929 If here's someone who starts in economics, ends up in construction, working for large construction companies there in California, and says, you know what, here's a problem um I'm seeing constantly. 01:12:30.929 --> 01:12:36.210 This isn't bringing me uh

joy necessarily to just be here in the field and do this. 01:12:36.210 --> 01:12:40.529 It's not what I see my career uh path moving forward. 01:12:40.529 --> 01:12:50.529 But he was already starting to identify some of those challenges and problems that he was noticing, but other people were noticing uh in the construction industry. 01:12:50.529 --> 01:12:53.889 And I think the story is impactful for all of us. 01:12:53.889 --> 01:13:26.529 There, there's a level of understanding of how to lead a construction company and then how you're implementing what you're building simultaneously to be able to then go take that to market to support others in the construction industry, because there are a lot of middle market, smaller general contractors, subcontractors, um, similar to what Acor currently is, that these types of solutions can make sense where it'll help them scale to where they want to get to as a business. 01:13:26.529 --> 01:13:58.449 But ultimately, it is about making the experience greater for every person that's involved in the project to make the life better for the site superintendent, to make the life better for the project manager, better for uh the project accountant and the finance team, ultimately up to the leadership of the company to get information the way they need to to operate and run the company, but also to the client and to the community and to the subtrades and everyone else that are involved in the project. 01:13:58.449 --> 01:14:02.289 That is that is a big goal and a big mission. 01:14:02.289 --> 01:14:07.089 And I hope that we all begin to think in that framework. 01:14:07.089 --> 01:14:09.329 Construction is a human experience. 01:14:09.329 --> 01:14:16.369 There might be tools, there might be processes, there might be contracts and other things that have to go into place. 01:14:16.369 --> 01:14:25.649 But the whole reason we do this is for ourselves and our own humanity to do something we're proud of while building for communities. 01:14:25.649 --> 01:14:35.089 So I hope you're able to continue to look at those things that you're saying, hey, I noticed this problem and you want to try to understand how to solve it. 01:14:35.089 --> 01:14:48.849 So continue to dive into those things, continue to explore, continue to ask yourself deeper questions and others deeper questions, and just continue to activate your curiosity and continue to activate the curiosity of others. 01:14:48.849 --> 01:14:58.289 The Activating Curiosity podcast is brought to you by Connective Consulting Group and Connective Coaching or the Curiosity Building Experiences. 01:14:58.289 --> 01:15:04.609 If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe so you'll never miss a conversation. 01:15:04.609 --> 01:15:09.889 Share the podcast with your network and help us bring more curiosity into the contribution. 01:15:09.889 --> 01:15:13.569 Interested in becoming a guest or sponsor? 01:15:13.569 --> 01:15:18.929 Visit us at ActivatingCuriosity.com for more details. 01:15:18.929 --> 01:15:22.289 Until next time, keep leading with curiosity.