Fragmented Influence: Why PR Now Means Podcasts, Substacks, and Eight Revenue Streams Per Journalist w Brett Farmiloe, Founder at Featured.com

WEBVTT
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I believe there are more opportunities than ever.
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It's just that they're more diffuse and that
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it requires a shitload more legwork and research
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and like infiltrating these little corners of
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the internet. I interview a lot of people in
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AI and generally what I'm hearing is that 2026
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is the year of disillusionment. That on the source
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side of things, the stat that we have seen is
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that 21 % of all pitches are 100 % AI generated.
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The one -on -one personal relationships. are
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going to matter so much more because everyone
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can be whoever they want at scale now thanks
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to AI. So being a real human has a premium. Welcome
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to Under Embargo, the podcast that says the quiet
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part out loud about PR, communications, and the
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chaos in between. Hosted by two of LinkedIn's
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most connected comms pros, Becca Chambers, a
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no BS corporate comms exec with raging ADHD,
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and Pari Hedrick, founder of tech PR firm Crackle
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PR. This show brings it all. Real talk, sharp
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insights, and the kind of industry truths they
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don't put in press releases. No fluff, no filters,
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no f***s given. This is Under Embargo. Let's
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get into it. Welcome back to another episode
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of Under Embargo. I'm Becca, CMO at Scale Venture
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Partners, and as always, joined by my trusty
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co -host, Perry Hedrick, founder of Crackle PR.
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Today, we have a very interesting guest who recently
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has made him a hero probably to many in the PR
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and journalism worlds. Brett Farmilow is the
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founder and CEO of Featured .com and the recent
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savior of HARO, Help a Reporter Out, and regular
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contributor to Inc. and Fast Company on the intersection
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of AI and the workplace, which we will get into.
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But first, welcome to the show. We're happy to
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have you here. Welcome. Thanks for having me.
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Awesome. I guess let's just start with tell us
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about Featured .com and how HARO fits in and
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what... all of that looks like right now since
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our audience is definitely interested totally
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totally i ran a marketing agency for 10 years
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we had 500 small business clients and the hardest
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problem that they had was getting featured in
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the media and so we created a platform that allowed
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them to share their expertise basically answer
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questions that were about their business and
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then put those insights into articles that got
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published on on different outlets and so Sold
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the agency at the end of 21, went all in on featured
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as a platform. And then last year we ended up
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acquiring Help Reporter out, bringing it back.
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It had been founded in 2008, got rebranded over
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to Connectively and pushed away from its original
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email format into a platform. And then that got
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discontinued because it didn't work. So we bought
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it, we brought it back. And now people, like
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you said, are pretty happy that three times a
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day there's some journalist requests that land
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in their inbox. That's awesome. Can you talk
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about how, so featured and Harrow, how do they
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interact with one another? Which is which? Can
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you just walk through that a little bit? Yeah,
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I think the cleanest way to think about it is,
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well, first of all, Harrow, three times a day
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email. that has journalist requests. Featured
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is a platform that has not only HARO requests,
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but exclusive opportunities through Featured
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and aggregated opportunities that we source from
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Substack, from X, from LinkedIn. And so basically
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Featured is kind of this powerful platform. It's
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like HARO in a platform with all these other
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different opportunities. So the challenges are
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people don't have enough time to essentially
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look and find all the relevant media opportunities.
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Feature will learn what your expertise is. It'll
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identify those opportunities and then bring it
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right into your inbox so you could just act on
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that and have a good ROI on your time. That's
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awesome. Can I ask something? Are your clients
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mostly agencies or are they mostly in -house
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people? Yeah, it's mainly agencies, in -house
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marketing teams, and then do -it -yourself small
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business owners that want to bypass using an
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agency. So directly from my team, I queried my
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team at Crackle because I said that you were
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going to be coming on and they had a bunch of
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questions. And I candidly don't use the tools
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myself because I'm a little removed from the
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day to day grind. So if I botch the delivery
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of the question, just know that it came from
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a real person who does the job. What was the
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process like in rebuilding Harrow post decision
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in particular was a question from one of the
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people. Yeah, that's a great question because
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the thing that I've heard frequently of why HARO
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was even discontinued in the first place was
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an erosion of quality and trust. And so basically,
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because it's an email format, it's so accessible
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to so many people. And so that basically just
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allows anyone to email the journalist directly.
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And that was causing a lot of issues from the
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journalist side, a lot of spam, a lot of AI,
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things like that. And basically, from my understanding,
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the resources weren't devoted to maintain that
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quality and trust. And so the very first thing
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that we did was... aim to restore that. So a
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couple of examples, every single pitch that gets
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sent through HARO or featured is checked for
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AI. So we'll do AI detection so that if it's
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100 % AI generated, a journalist has a decision
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to opt out of receiving that message. So that's
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one example. Can I stop you there quickly? Yeah.
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How confident are we with the sort of designation
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of 100 % AI? You know what I mean? Like that's
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always the sticky wicket, isn't it? Is it AI?
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Isn't it? How do you feel? How confident are
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you in those designations, I guess? The AI detection
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partner that we use is called Pangram. If you
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go to pangram .com, the tagline there is AI detection
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that actually works. And I think that in our
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experience, that has been true. So in terms of
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confidence level, I think that everyone's got
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their own AI detection tool. We've got ours,
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but it's at least a signal. that allows those
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journalists to now say, OK, like, let me look
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at this from a closer lens, because ultimately
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journalists are tasked with is this a real insight
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from a real person? Like, let's start there.
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And so a lot of what we had to do was figure
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out, OK, this is first person get a blue checkmark.
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Can we verify that they actually work at the
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company that they that they claim to, that they
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have the credentials to back up what they're
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actually sharing? So. Making that connection
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between expert sources and journalists has a
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lot of intricacies behind the scenes. How are
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you getting the journalists on board? So bringing
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Help A Reporter Out back was like flipping a
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light switch. Because it was founded in 2008,
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almost every journalist, PR professional that's
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been in the industry has heard about Help A Reporter
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Out. And so when we brought it back... It was
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crazy. I remember the Friday before we were going
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to bring it back, we wanted to just test that
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the deployment of the website would actually
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work. And it was like a Friday afternoon at 4
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p .m. And Harrow had been offline for like 18
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months. And within three minutes, we had 10 new
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signups. of just people who were doing referral
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traffic on like a Friday afternoon. And so I
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think that, you know, it's a really, really well
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-known brand. It's one that's built up a lot
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of trust with journalists because they've been
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able to get connected with different sources.
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And that's what makes makes the network really,
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really unique and special. So I have another
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I'm going to go to my little mailbag here of
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staffer questions from. One person, they said,
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how are you guys competing with Quoted or other
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new platforms on the scene? Can you talk a little
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bit about that? Totally. I think that Help Reporter
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Out is the largest expert network where journalists
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can source from. So because it's email -based,
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because it's free for all, it's got a different
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monetization model. So it's supported by newsletter
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ads where Quoted and Featured both sell subscriptions.
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So I think that that's one key difference is
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that Anyone can show up and share their expertise
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on Help a Reporter Out. Featured, a little different
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because we own and operate HARO, so you get early
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access to HARO queries. One of the things with
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HARO, because it's email -based, we send out
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emails every five hours. And so there's a delay
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between when a journalist submits and when it
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actually gets featured in the newsletter. So
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as soon as we approve it, it's live on featured.
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That's one of the key differences. I think that
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illustrates that a little bit. Got it. And Becca,
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I have a bunch of questions. I don't want to
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cut you off. Go ahead. All right. I just want
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to back up a little bit to the AI piece of this,
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because obviously everybody's staring down the
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zeitgeist of AI and what it means to our jobs.
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And there's existential dread related to it and
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AI slop and blah, blah, blah. What would you
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say the percentage of journalists, in your view,
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What percentage of these journalists actually
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even entertain any of these AI pitches? In other
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words, once they know it's AI, do they just categorically
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dismiss it? Is the overwhelming majority of the
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journalists in your mix, do they just say, screw
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anything AI, I want humans only? Or are people
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beginning to be like, well, there's such a volume
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of this stuff coming that at some point I have
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to acquiesce and start reading some of this shit?
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I think there's two camps. There's the camp that
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cares and the camp that doesn't. The camp that
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doesn't is... doing their job past the initial
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AI pitch. So they care most about getting connected
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with the right source. And so it doesn't matter
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if that pitch is AI generated or not. If it's
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the right source, the journalist is going to
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do their job. They're going to schedule a Zoom
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call. They're going to get in an interview. They're
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going to get to verify the source and get what
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they need for their story. So I think that you're
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seeing that. where very rarely is someone just
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going to copy -paste, put into whatever got sent
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in their inbox into a story without any verification.
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And so I think that you're seeing more of an
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adoption and an openness to AI as we go along,
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as it becomes more of the norm. But there's definitely
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two camps, and there's definitely, you know,
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sometimes journalists are handcuffed in the sense
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that their publication puts their own requirements
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on it. So I think that it's becoming more of
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the norm. If you had to handicap it, would you
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say something like, I don't know, 70 % are still
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kind of old school and want real human interaction,
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while 30 % are now becoming open to the AI piece,
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or I don't want to put words in your mouth. What
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are you seeing? I need to get the, now you got
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me curious about what the actual stat is, because
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- I feel like that would go on fire on LinkedIn,
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if you had that actual number, that people would
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go ballistic for that. We do have a filter that
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allows journalists to check that says no AI responses.
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That's not checked by default. So I'm going to
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have to do some stats and verification on it.
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What I will say is that on the source side of
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things, the stat that we have seen is that 21
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% of all pitches are 100 % AI generated. So that's
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what we're seeing on our platform side. That's
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why we had to restore a lot of the quality and
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trust is because a lot of people will set up
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automations to detect and then automatically
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send something through AI. I would venture to
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say that... it probably mirrors that a little
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bit on the journalist side where maybe it's like
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60 40 if i had to guess like 60 are not cool
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with it yeah 40 are and it's getting closer to
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50 50 as as we go along that actually lends itself
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well to just kind of the general question of
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how do you how has getting media coverage changed
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in the last three years? Because clearly there's
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been a massive shift and we're moving into a
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new direction. So what are you seeing trend -wise?
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Yeah, I'm seeing that with NPR, AI is being embraced.
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It has huge gains for people in the profession.
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And at the same time, it's drastically shifting
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media entirely. So the places where people want
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to be featured, are on podcasts, on social platforms,
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on someone's Substack. It's getting very fragmented
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by channel, and it's no longer, oh, I just want
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to be featured in Inc. and Fast Company and these
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national outlets. So it's influence is shifting
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quite a bit as AI is dramatically changing what
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that market looks like. Do you think influence
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is shifting away from organizations into individual
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people brands? Like, you know, do you talk about
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Substack and podcasts and things like that? I
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think it goes back to creators because the thing
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that is kind of lacking in the world is trust.
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And, you know, that's what people as individuals
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have. And so I think that you're seeing attention
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go towards individuals because of trust, because
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of accessibility, because of some of the economics.
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Like, how many times do I have to click? I don't
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want this pop up. on a media site anymore. So
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I think that just the user experience is more
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intuitive as well. And so time and attention
00:13:18.350 --> 00:13:21.950
is really scarce. What's the proper economic
00:13:21.950 --> 00:13:24.090
model that has the best user experience? And
00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:26.549
you're seeing audience flow in that direction.
00:13:29.899 --> 00:13:32.559
I know AI, we keep coming back to it, and it's
00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:34.340
probably exhausting because that's probably what
00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:36.440
most people want to talk about most of the time.
00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:39.039
But when we talk about journalists and we talk
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.639
about PR, I'm still a bit of a purist. I use
00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.320
the tools. I use them for some ideation. I use
00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:47.240
them sometimes if I'm like, God damn it, I can't
00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:48.480
figure out an ending for this. Can you give me
00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.620
some ideas? I use it, but it's not the primary
00:13:51.620 --> 00:13:53.360
thing that I use. And my team doesn't primarily
00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:55.299
use it to write pitches. We don't write press
00:13:55.299 --> 00:13:57.480
releases with it. We might put outlines together.
00:13:58.820 --> 00:14:02.179
pretty pure still and i know that the vast majority
00:14:02.179 --> 00:14:05.460
of journalists are also still fairly pure they
00:14:05.460 --> 00:14:07.659
have to you know begrudgingly they they deal
00:14:07.659 --> 00:14:09.679
with because they have to there's such a volume
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.159
of it is it your opinion and i know you have
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:13.820
to be careful about how you couch this because
00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:15.620
you try to serve all audiences here but like
00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:18.759
is it your opinion that that ai is like a commodity
00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:22.759
and over time the human voice the human writing
00:14:22.759 --> 00:14:26.080
the human pitches will become a premium. And
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:28.039
I asked that question against the backdrop of
00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:30.179
all of these hires and all these major brands
00:14:30.179 --> 00:14:33.100
of people paying like 350 K to bring on head
00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:35.620
of content, 300, you know, $50 ,000 to bring
00:14:35.620 --> 00:14:37.600
their editorial director on. Like, I think I
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:39.419
see a lot of people getting hired in very, very
00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:41.759
important jobs who are human beings to make sure
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.320
that the machines are not running amok. What
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:48.720
do you think? Give me that 350K job. There's
00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:51.980
a bunch of them. They're everywhere. They're
00:14:51.980 --> 00:14:55.259
hiring human beings to oversee this shit. And
00:14:55.259 --> 00:14:57.519
those people used to get paid crappy in these
00:14:57.519 --> 00:14:59.440
companies, right? Like those are the underpaid
00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.559
people. And now it's like, just dollar, dollar
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.480
bills. I guess to put it another way, are you
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.600
worried about the commoditization of AI writ
00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:11.100
large and how it might sort of take down the
00:15:11.100 --> 00:15:13.460
value of platforms like yours because it becomes
00:15:13.460 --> 00:15:16.350
so overwhelmed with slop? I guess that's ultimately
00:15:16.350 --> 00:15:18.690
the question behind the question. Yeah, I'm not
00:15:18.690 --> 00:15:20.929
too concerned about it because ultimately readers
00:15:20.929 --> 00:15:25.590
will reject slop. If you're in an experimentation
00:15:25.590 --> 00:15:28.350
phase with it, you're going to have publications
00:15:28.350 --> 00:15:31.629
that are going to open their doors up and then
00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:33.669
probably pretty quickly close those doors because
00:15:33.669 --> 00:15:37.990
that 350k a year person is going to see that
00:15:37.990 --> 00:15:41.679
it's not working. And they need to have a detour.
00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:46.100
So where I'm seeing PR adopt AI is as a thinking
00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:48.559
partner. It's not the place that's generating
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:51.820
the ideas. It's that the person in the job has
00:15:51.820 --> 00:15:54.620
gotten it to 80 % of the way there. AI could
00:15:54.620 --> 00:15:57.539
come in to make sure essentially that you are
00:15:57.539 --> 00:16:01.139
not missing anything, get it to 90%, and then
00:16:01.139 --> 00:16:03.659
allow the human in the loop to take it to 100.
00:16:03.860 --> 00:16:08.190
So I'm not too worried about... AI slop at scale
00:16:08.190 --> 00:16:10.250
because readers will reject it before it gets
00:16:10.250 --> 00:16:12.250
there and at the same time I'm actually more
00:16:12.250 --> 00:16:15.370
of an optimist to think that I'm on this podcast
00:16:15.370 --> 00:16:18.009
I've already created some different content there's
00:16:18.009 --> 00:16:20.470
a lot of stuff out there that I personally can
00:16:20.470 --> 00:16:22.750
use to better train myself on a knowledge base
00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:27.409
and then if time is my biggest constraint and
00:16:27.409 --> 00:16:28.929
I want to share more knowledge I want to have
00:16:28.929 --> 00:16:31.429
more thought leadership AI can actually take
00:16:31.429 --> 00:16:34.159
a lot of what I've done and connect to different
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:36.580
sources to now help me unlock more new knowledge.
00:16:36.779 --> 00:16:40.799
So I do think AI can advance with the right data
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:42.980
sets and the right structured workflows sitting
00:16:42.980 --> 00:16:45.100
on top of it. And I think that's probably the
00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:47.919
exciting part that we could lean more into. Yeah,
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:51.120
fascinating. Becca, I don't want to keep barreling
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.440
away, but so my next question is, do you ever
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:55.980
use your own platform to generate publicity for
00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:57.820
yourself? Like, do you eat your own dog food
00:16:57.820 --> 00:17:00.659
when it comes to getting opportunities for your
00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:04.559
company? On both sides. I freaking love it. It's
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:07.880
like my favorite thing to do. So I contribute
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.500
articles to Inc. and to Fast Company, primarily
00:17:10.500 --> 00:17:13.400
on AI coverage. And for that, I go to Harrow.
00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.420
I put out a Harrow with my story and I get hundreds
00:17:17.420 --> 00:17:20.119
of pitches. I get connected to some of the most,
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:24.319
the smartest, most insightful, innovative people
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.680
in the world. And I write an article and it's
00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.630
really, really cool. On Featured, I use that
00:17:29.630 --> 00:17:33.690
as my vehicle to identify relevant media opportunities
00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:36.769
and then give me a suggested draft that I could
00:17:36.769 --> 00:17:40.309
take over the finish line. So I'm not scanning
00:17:40.309 --> 00:17:43.549
Featured and refreshing the browser all day,
00:17:43.569 --> 00:17:45.690
every day. I'll get an email when there's a relevant
00:17:45.690 --> 00:17:48.210
opportunity that's like, hey, Brett, here's one.
00:17:48.630 --> 00:17:51.049
Here's what we think you should say. And then
00:17:51.049 --> 00:17:53.009
I'll edit it and then submit it. And that's a
00:17:53.009 --> 00:17:56.329
ton of fun to get Featured as a source. yeah
00:17:56.329 --> 00:17:59.069
well that's that's good that i don't know if
00:17:59.069 --> 00:18:00.509
you've done anything with this but if you haven't
00:18:00.509 --> 00:18:02.089
you should consider doing like a case study how
00:18:02.089 --> 00:18:04.509
you actually use your stuff because it's like
00:18:04.509 --> 00:18:06.670
the whole uh what was it the hair club president
00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:09.130
for men guy back in the days like i'm not only
00:18:09.130 --> 00:18:13.890
a hair club member i'm also a client it's kind
00:18:13.890 --> 00:18:17.609
of good uh a good proof case i guess yeah absolutely
00:18:17.609 --> 00:18:21.470
i might have to put out the infomercial i mean
00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:25.329
throwback nostalgia is in right now but here
00:18:25.829 --> 00:18:30.490
You said that 2026 will likely be the year of
00:18:30.490 --> 00:18:36.329
AI disillusionment. Say more. Yeah, I think that
00:18:36.329 --> 00:18:39.490
that's so I interview a lot of people in AI.
00:18:39.750 --> 00:18:43.309
And generally what I'm hearing is is that that
00:18:43.309 --> 00:18:45.930
2026 is the year of disillusionment, mainly because
00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:49.609
the shock and gains that you're going to see
00:18:49.609 --> 00:18:53.089
within models will be more subtle. It's not going
00:18:53.089 --> 00:19:01.000
to be such a jump from. GPT 3 .5 to 4 to 5. So
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:04.000
I think a lot of what the models have built is
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.819
fantastic. And now we're kind of like, how do
00:19:07.819 --> 00:19:11.359
we get to that last mile? And it's already ingested
00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:14.839
the entire web. Like the last mile is now in
00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.819
experts' heads. And so that's a little bit more
00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:20.390
of a slower process where... Where is a model
00:19:20.390 --> 00:19:23.549
not good? Okay, let's go find 200 experts that
00:19:23.549 --> 00:19:26.069
specialize in that area. Let's go create a bunch
00:19:26.069 --> 00:19:28.410
of raw data. Let's better train these models.
00:19:28.549 --> 00:19:31.869
It just gets slower. The gains get slower. And
00:19:31.869 --> 00:19:35.109
we're also fatigued. Like a lot of people are
00:19:35.109 --> 00:19:37.549
just fatigued after multiple years of hearing
00:19:37.549 --> 00:19:41.400
how great it is. And then you're like, you know,
00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:44.359
on LinkedIn, you see someone's post about how
00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:46.839
great what they've done in AI is. And it's like,
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:48.480
all right, give me something else. Like, what
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.180
else do we got here? So I think that both things
00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:54.279
just start to balance out. The projections of
00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.259
AI models just get a little bit slower. The fatigue
00:19:57.259 --> 00:19:59.660
gets greater and we start to level off and it
00:19:59.660 --> 00:20:02.359
all starts to kind of set in. I will say there
00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:04.640
are moments of surprise and delight still that
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:09.559
I'm like, as an example, I recently used nano
00:20:09.559 --> 00:20:12.619
banana, like the image thing on Gemini. I was
00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:15.519
like, Holy Jesus, this is so advanced. It's so
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:17.500
easy to use compared to all the other stuff I
00:20:17.500 --> 00:20:19.200
had done. So like every now and then there's
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:21.319
like this Eureka thing. And I, and yes, obviously
00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:23.940
I'm now I'm with Taylor Smith, Taylor Swift on
00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.559
Instagram. I'm like, you know, I'm making all
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.559
these pictures of myself. I love these little,
00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:30.339
these little surprise and delight moments, but
00:20:30.339 --> 00:20:31.740
I think to your point, those are going to be
00:20:31.740 --> 00:20:34.710
fewer and far between as A, all the platforms
00:20:34.710 --> 00:20:37.450
are kind of on par for the most part. Like all
00:20:37.450 --> 00:20:38.970
the conversations I'm seeing are like, well,
00:20:39.069 --> 00:20:41.289
I deleted chat GPT in favor of cloud, all right?
00:20:41.630 --> 00:20:43.630
Perplexity I use instead of X. Like they're almost
00:20:43.630 --> 00:20:46.210
kind of interchangeable at this point. So I think
00:20:46.210 --> 00:20:48.269
there is that fatigue and people are kind of
00:20:48.269 --> 00:20:51.569
now immersed in the world instead of just shocked
00:20:51.569 --> 00:20:53.529
out of their goddamn mind every time they like
00:20:53.529 --> 00:20:56.250
hear an AI story. But I think that's part of
00:20:56.250 --> 00:21:02.509
why like the... individual trust creator trust
00:21:02.509 --> 00:21:06.009
communities like why that matters so much more
00:21:06.009 --> 00:21:08.150
now is like we're all just like drowning in like
00:21:08.150 --> 00:21:11.009
all of these new tools or options for tools or
00:21:11.009 --> 00:21:14.450
ways to do things and the fatigue is real and
00:21:14.450 --> 00:21:17.289
the fomo is real so it's like how do we even
00:21:17.289 --> 00:21:20.430
start where do we go and i think knowing that
00:21:20.430 --> 00:21:23.569
you know if i say i use x y and z tool and i
00:21:23.569 --> 00:21:25.410
tell my friend they're like great i'll start
00:21:25.410 --> 00:21:27.230
there at least right and i feel the same way
00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:30.589
if somebody says to me I'm using this and I chose
00:21:30.589 --> 00:21:34.190
it over the 97 other options because of why it
00:21:34.190 --> 00:21:37.130
like helps me start to do something that I'm
00:21:37.130 --> 00:21:39.589
feeling like I can't even start to touch because
00:21:39.589 --> 00:21:41.910
there's too many options. I feel like that's
00:21:41.910 --> 00:21:44.670
part of why the like individual taste, trust,
00:21:44.930 --> 00:21:48.470
whatever metric is going to become way more important
00:21:48.470 --> 00:21:51.849
because we're just overloaded. There's just too
00:21:51.849 --> 00:21:54.170
much stuff. And I kind of welcome a slowdown
00:21:54.170 --> 00:21:56.029
because then maybe we can catch up a little bit.
00:21:57.630 --> 00:21:59.750
Yeah, absolutely. And on the flip side of that,
00:21:59.829 --> 00:22:03.990
too, I do think that as much as 2026 might be
00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:06.589
the year of disillusionment, I also don't know
00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:11.829
if you guys remember this. In 2006, Time came
00:22:11.829 --> 00:22:13.650
out with the person of the year. Do you remember
00:22:13.650 --> 00:22:14.609
who the person of the year was? Yeah, we were
00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:16.670
all the person of the year. Was that what it
00:22:16.670 --> 00:22:19.710
was? Everyone was. It was so cheesy. Yeah, it
00:22:19.710 --> 00:22:24.309
was the tooth. Yeah, the magazine cover was a
00:22:24.309 --> 00:22:29.609
mirror. And the person was you. And like, if
00:22:29.609 --> 00:22:31.829
we're going to name the AI company of the year
00:22:31.829 --> 00:22:34.769
in 2026, I actually think that 20 years later,
00:22:34.829 --> 00:22:38.029
that that magazine cover is like turning the
00:22:38.029 --> 00:22:40.369
mirror on a lot of companies, because I feel
00:22:40.369 --> 00:22:43.970
like a lot of companies are now an AI company.
00:22:44.430 --> 00:22:48.109
Like SaaS is AI, you know, services has AI components.
00:22:48.529 --> 00:22:51.009
I think that's also kind of the theme as we look
00:22:51.009 --> 00:22:53.970
ahead is like 2026, as much as we're going to
00:22:53.970 --> 00:22:56.710
get fatigued by AI. Well, wasn't the most recent
00:22:56.710 --> 00:22:59.349
Time magazine cover AI as person of the year?
00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:01.849
And it had all the AI people on that. I didn't
00:23:01.849 --> 00:23:05.150
see it. I mean, it had all the people from like
00:23:05.150 --> 00:23:08.470
NVIDIA to, you know, everybody that is like anybody
00:23:08.470 --> 00:23:11.650
in AI was sitting on that big iconic picture
00:23:11.650 --> 00:23:13.920
up on the Empire State Building. transitions
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:16.799
are hard right like we are in the middle of like
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:21.380
a massive shift and it's always this like push
00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:25.059
and pull of like i don't know over promising
00:23:25.059 --> 00:23:28.480
over correcting you know there's just i don't
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.740
know nobody likes not nobody most people don't
00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:34.740
like having to change in a massive way and i
00:23:34.740 --> 00:23:37.440
think you know five years from now god only knows
00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:39.259
what that's gonna look like but at least we will
00:23:39.259 --> 00:23:42.579
have been like farther along in it that we can
00:23:42.579 --> 00:23:44.920
expect something right now we're just in this
00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.039
kind of wild west free -for -all that you know
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.859
we haven't experienced in 25 years yeah totally
00:23:51.859 --> 00:23:55.859
and i you know just closing off this like i think
00:23:55.859 --> 00:23:58.200
that that's actually what has made the resurrection
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.819
of of harrow unique like it's an email tool all
00:24:01.819 --> 00:24:04.700
right like and you're connecting with another
00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:08.680
person and that's kind of like a rare corner
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:11.940
of the web today like where can you do that that's
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:14.539
exactly what i thought when i was thinking about
00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:17.319
that harrow is back as an email tool it's like
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.480
we're we've come full circle right like we've
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:22.420
gone back to the very beginning of how you used
00:24:22.420 --> 00:24:25.960
to reach people digitally like so freaking cool
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:29.950
and the one -on -one personal relationships are
00:24:29.950 --> 00:24:32.549
going to matter so much more because everyone
00:24:32.549 --> 00:24:35.089
can be whoever they want at scale now thanks
00:24:35.089 --> 00:24:38.609
to ai so being a real human has a premium so
00:24:38.609 --> 00:24:42.630
a couple of interesting thoughts i think and
00:24:42.630 --> 00:24:45.410
then like questions around it is like if college
00:24:45.410 --> 00:24:47.730
kids asked me two three years ago like should
00:24:47.730 --> 00:24:50.869
i consider a career in pr i was kind of inclined
00:24:50.869 --> 00:24:53.089
to say like i don't know man i think you i think
00:24:53.089 --> 00:24:55.089
you might not want to because i think i feel
00:24:55.089 --> 00:24:56.950
like ai is just going to eat all of our jobs
00:24:56.950 --> 00:24:59.960
um full stop so i would think about other things
00:24:59.960 --> 00:25:01.759
maybe becoming an electrician or a plumber or
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:04.200
something or something that ai can't steal um
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.779
because all the signs were pointing negatively
00:25:06.779 --> 00:25:10.180
toward ai gobbling us up now in the intervening
00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:13.779
months and years ai has kind of thrown pr a bouquet
00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:18.589
in the sense that llms heavily prioritize earned
00:25:18.589 --> 00:25:20.549
media and their citations when people are looking
00:25:20.549 --> 00:25:22.109
for products and services at the point of need
00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:24.690
so somebody's like hey well what's the best crm
00:25:24.690 --> 00:25:26.349
software what's the best security software cloud
00:25:26.349 --> 00:25:29.730
and they ask you know any of these llms Earn
00:25:29.730 --> 00:25:32.470
media is what is cited in those responses. And
00:25:32.470 --> 00:25:34.730
so therefore, it's basically, if not completely
00:25:34.730 --> 00:25:37.730
taking over traditional SEO, then it's 100 percent
00:25:37.730 --> 00:25:41.049
eating part of its lunch. So PR has kind of gotten
00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:42.730
that bouquet in the sense that now guess who's
00:25:42.730 --> 00:25:44.549
relevant as shit again? It's the PR people that
00:25:44.549 --> 00:25:47.250
hook these stories up with the reporters to get
00:25:47.250 --> 00:25:50.549
the earn media that LLM cite. Now, having said
00:25:50.549 --> 00:25:53.990
that, reporters are fewer and far between. Washington
00:25:53.990 --> 00:25:56.210
Post just laid off one third of their staff yesterday.
00:25:57.859 --> 00:25:59.880
How do you how do I reconcile when I'm talking
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:02.099
about the opportunity that AI has thrown us with
00:26:02.099 --> 00:26:04.900
LLMs using earned media as a citation with a
00:26:04.900 --> 00:26:08.119
dwindling amount of reporters and journalists
00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:11.079
to cover the shit that we need them to cite?
00:26:11.380 --> 00:26:13.059
Have you thought about that? And like, what does
00:26:13.059 --> 00:26:15.259
that mean for your platform moving forward as
00:26:15.259 --> 00:26:18.859
reporters kind of wither on the vine? Yeah, I
00:26:18.859 --> 00:26:21.000
think that it just comes back to the stuff they
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:24.690
were talking about earlier. Like, OK. So one
00:26:24.690 --> 00:26:27.930
interesting thing that I did when we acquired
00:26:27.930 --> 00:26:30.829
HARO was I wanted to talk and interview with
00:26:30.829 --> 00:26:33.950
over 100 journalists who had used it. Same thing
00:26:33.950 --> 00:26:36.849
on the source side. When I got on these Zoom
00:26:36.849 --> 00:26:39.410
calls with journalists, like the thing that I've
00:26:39.410 --> 00:26:43.049
learned very quickly was that they have about
00:26:43.049 --> 00:26:45.549
eight sources of income. I would have to ask
00:26:45.549 --> 00:26:47.619
them like, hey. Like, how are you earning a living?
00:26:47.819 --> 00:26:49.599
Like, what are you doing? And they would name
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:51.319
off their writing for five different publications.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:53.279
They've got a sub stack that they're doing. They've
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.079
got consulting hours. They've got this course.
00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:58.720
They're doing a lot. All right. So the tracking
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:02.740
a journalist, their beat tracking with where
00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:05.680
they write like that is really, really tough.
00:27:05.779 --> 00:27:08.920
That is a constantly moving thing. At the same
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:13.420
time, like. there's influence in different places.
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:16.859
So what is a journalist in 2026? Like, is it
00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:19.180
a creator? Is it a, someone who writes articles?
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:23.440
And so I think that for PR, this just opens up
00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:26.200
a lot of opportunity on who do you want to connect
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:29.259
your clients with? Where, what channels are right
00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:32.599
for them? What are the end destinations? So I
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:34.940
think that like, that's another bouquet for PR.
00:27:35.079 --> 00:27:38.180
This is going to be even harder for companies
00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:40.880
to figure out of like, How do I promote my business?
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:44.259
How do I build visibility with customers? That's
00:27:44.259 --> 00:27:48.180
a very hard thing that's going to get increasingly
00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:50.240
harder for companies. Yeah, everybody thinks
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.500
they know PR, but they're not going to be able
00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:53.920
to figure that part out. And so just to follow
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.259
up on that, what I've been telling myself is
00:27:56.259 --> 00:27:59.000
that. I believe there are more opportunities
00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:01.119
than ever. It's just that they're more diffuse
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:04.819
and that it requires a shitload more legwork
00:28:04.819 --> 00:28:08.440
and research and infiltrating these little corners
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.059
of the internet that didn't really amount to
00:28:10.059 --> 00:28:12.880
much. You have to be in way more places to reach
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:15.240
the same number of people as before. Yes, but
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:17.339
in aggregate, you can still get that halo effect
00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:19.359
and maybe even bigger, but it's a hell of a lot
00:28:19.359 --> 00:28:22.200
more work, which to your point, may be even better
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.240
for PR. Anyway, it's a fascinating topic. I feel
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:26.839
like that is something I want to write about
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:30.500
actually soon on LinkedIn. All right. Definitely
00:28:30.500 --> 00:28:35.599
agree. Sorry. I was just going to make a little
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:41.299
shift into besides AI and PR journalism world,
00:28:41.480 --> 00:28:46.279
what else do you do? I drive a minivan with three
00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:49.759
kids. That's about it. I relate to that. That's
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:53.769
all I got time for is family. keeping track of
00:28:53.769 --> 00:28:56.410
AI within the PR and journalism world and trying
00:28:56.410 --> 00:28:59.890
to grow a startup. Yeah, totally. How many people
00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:04.789
work at the company? We've got seven of us. And
00:29:04.789 --> 00:29:08.269
I would just say that, like, the thing that I've
00:29:08.269 --> 00:29:11.710
noticed pretty frequently, like, I sympathize
00:29:11.710 --> 00:29:15.269
with the media and, you know, people who work
00:29:15.269 --> 00:29:18.430
in media. But Perry, to your point, like, I sympathize
00:29:18.430 --> 00:29:20.849
with a lot of the college students coming out.
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:23.779
And a lot of the people in early stages of their
00:29:23.779 --> 00:29:27.700
careers, because every PR agency owner that I've
00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:30.579
spoken with has been like, look, you know, we
00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:33.400
should employ probably another two, three people
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:36.839
on staff. But because AI has been such an effective
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:39.000
job to increase the efficiencies of our existing
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:41.339
team, like we've been able to unlock so much
00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:44.460
more so much more productivity. I think the same
00:29:44.460 --> 00:29:47.059
is true for us, like the software engineers that
00:29:47.059 --> 00:29:50.000
we have on on staff are like. look coding is
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:53.799
no longer the bottleneck we have a 10x gain where
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:56.640
ai creates the code we review the code because
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.200
we've been software developers for 10 15 years
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:01.640
we know that what's good and what's not and we
00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:06.059
put it in the prod and that is like very, very
00:30:06.059 --> 00:30:08.079
crazy to think that you could run, you know,
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:10.099
startups supporting hundreds of thousands of
00:30:10.099 --> 00:30:12.880
users with a team of seven. Well, headcount used
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.140
to be a badge of honor, right? Like the tech
00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:16.980
company is like, we plan to increase headcount
00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:19.420
by X. You know, everybody's like, yes, those
00:30:19.420 --> 00:30:21.799
guys are on fire. And now it's looked at kind
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:23.779
of like, what are these guys doing? They're fucking
00:30:23.779 --> 00:30:26.519
up. They're hiring people. You should be reducing
00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:29.700
people, getting way more efficient. So that's
00:30:29.700 --> 00:30:33.500
been in my view. having worked in tech for years
00:30:33.500 --> 00:30:35.599
and years has been the biggest swing is that
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:37.680
we are always talking about how these guys are
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.019
growing like wildfire and now it's like ah look
00:30:41.019 --> 00:30:42.700
at those guys they don't get it they don't get
00:30:42.700 --> 00:30:44.799
they should be you know reducing their head count
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:48.660
by a third totally i have said it before and
00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:50.859
i'll say it again though i think the biggest
00:30:50.859 --> 00:30:54.680
hurdle to ai adoption for like the normies in
00:30:54.680 --> 00:30:58.299
roles like ours is giving people the time to
00:30:58.299 --> 00:31:02.559
go experiment and f it up and try and fail and
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.640
spend the money that they need on the uh credits
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:08.460
and blah blah blah because that's part of learning
00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:12.599
right is like just trying and i think when everyone's
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:14.420
grinding away at their job and they know how
00:31:14.420 --> 00:31:18.160
to do things the old way they don't have the
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.200
time to go learn a new tool so like is imperative
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:24.359
on like leaders and organizations and whatever
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:26.660
to say okay if we expect you to use these tools
00:31:26.660 --> 00:31:29.490
and do more with them It's not just like, here's
00:31:29.490 --> 00:31:32.150
a training once in a while. It's like dedicate
00:31:32.150 --> 00:31:34.509
four hours a week to building something. And
00:31:34.509 --> 00:31:35.829
if you build something cool, share it with the
00:31:35.829 --> 00:31:38.829
team. And, you know, how do you kind of democratize
00:31:38.829 --> 00:31:42.930
AI learning so it doesn't have to just be like,
00:31:42.990 --> 00:31:45.410
I'm going to an AI class because that isn't the
00:31:45.410 --> 00:31:48.930
same thing. Yeah, it sounds a little boring with
00:31:48.930 --> 00:31:52.210
the going to an AI class. And I think that, you
00:31:52.210 --> 00:31:55.789
know, AI tools do a really good job of. For us,
00:31:55.950 --> 00:31:57.970
one of the biggest startup hacks that we've ever
00:31:57.970 --> 00:32:01.910
had is sign up for startup programs with NVIDIA,
00:32:02.109 --> 00:32:06.769
with Microsoft, with AWS. That gave us over $500
00:32:06.769 --> 00:32:12.730
,000 of AI credits. For startups, all these model
00:32:12.730 --> 00:32:15.250
builders and providers have these credits that
00:32:15.250 --> 00:32:17.130
you could utilize so you can mess up and you
00:32:17.130 --> 00:32:19.609
can figure out what works in your workflows and
00:32:19.609 --> 00:32:23.460
what doesn't. That to me has been a huge unlock
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:25.660
for us over the last couple of years. So a hundred
00:32:25.660 --> 00:32:29.380
percent go, go test it. I think the widely cited
00:32:29.380 --> 00:32:32.460
stat that kind of has a misleading headline is
00:32:32.460 --> 00:32:35.500
how many failures there are of AI prototypes
00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:38.039
at the enterprise level. Like, would you want
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.359
a reverse of that with a 90 % success rate? Probably
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:42.960
not because they're probably not pushing the
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.420
boundaries of what it could do. So I think that,
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.500
yeah, there's a lot of room for messing up and
00:32:47.500 --> 00:32:49.299
seeing what the limitations are so that you can.
00:32:49.819 --> 00:32:52.680
know uh where the boundaries actually exist so
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.819
speaking of an unlock and limitations and all
00:32:54.819 --> 00:32:57.359
that what what's featured in particular what
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:01.359
um what's the one thing that you guys are can't
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:03.079
do yet but you're aspiring to do is they're like
00:33:03.079 --> 00:33:05.740
man if we could only do this thing or these two
00:33:05.740 --> 00:33:09.119
things we would be on fire or is that is that
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:10.759
giving away a roadmap like i don't want you to
00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:14.460
no we want a position featured as a pr assistant
00:33:15.069 --> 00:33:18.190
So look at all the different things, all the
00:33:18.190 --> 00:33:21.650
different workflows that exist within PR. Finding
00:33:21.650 --> 00:33:24.789
a journalist, identifying a relevant HARO query
00:33:24.789 --> 00:33:27.529
and responding with a good pitch. These are things
00:33:27.529 --> 00:33:31.809
that you can have an assistant get to 90 % of
00:33:31.809 --> 00:33:33.410
the way there and then have the human in the
00:33:33.410 --> 00:33:35.430
loop so that you can have that 10x efficiency
00:33:35.430 --> 00:33:39.569
within PR. So for us, it's a matter of we feel
00:33:39.569 --> 00:33:42.539
like we have... really unique proprietary data
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.859
with what's coming through, help a reporter out.
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:48.519
We know what kind of workflows exist within our
00:33:48.519 --> 00:33:51.480
customers. I think that now you could get it
00:33:51.480 --> 00:33:54.799
into a more usable, friendly user interface that
00:33:54.799 --> 00:33:57.660
allows to have those 10x productivity gains.
00:33:58.059 --> 00:34:00.359
And that's what we're working towards. I think
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.420
that's a really exciting future. Have you connected
00:34:02.420 --> 00:34:04.460
with the people that are working on Honeyjar?
00:34:05.420 --> 00:34:08.199
Are you aware of them? You should just take a
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:11.059
quick note about Honey Jar, because while they
00:34:11.059 --> 00:34:12.800
haven't really revealed what they've done yet,
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:15.119
they have some pretty big investments from like
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.820
former bigwigs at Anderson Horowitz. But they're
00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:21.519
looking at specific to PR and comms, creating
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.719
like some kind of ecosystem of all these tools
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:28.159
that I think are going to be interesting to you.
00:34:28.179 --> 00:34:30.280
And I've signed up for their free thing. I haven't
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.920
gotten it yet, like their early beta stuff. But
00:34:32.920 --> 00:34:34.699
you should just be aware of them, I think, because
00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:36.719
I think they're talking in similar ways that
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:40.719
you're talking about here, which, hey. Yeah,
00:34:40.780 --> 00:34:42.960
no, I appreciate the tip. You should take a look.
00:34:44.199 --> 00:34:48.000
It's a small comms world. And frankly, I'm just
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:50.239
glad that there are tools being developed that
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:53.099
are like for us. It just always felt like we
00:34:53.099 --> 00:34:56.280
were such an afterthought. And I think AI brings
00:34:56.280 --> 00:35:01.840
this whole world of comms. reporting and comms
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:04.940
automation and stuff that just didn't exist before.
00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:07.659
And nobody cared about us because we were such
00:35:07.659 --> 00:35:11.760
a small and low budget cohort. I still don't
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.980
think anybody's really nailed the reporting piece.
00:35:14.139 --> 00:35:16.760
No one's nailed it, but at least we have the
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:19.380
ability as individuals to not spend $80 ,000
00:35:19.380 --> 00:35:23.460
on a tool and get some kind of data, which didn't
00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:25.420
exist for a lot of us before. It was just a black
00:35:25.420 --> 00:35:29.340
box. Yeah, yeah. I think that's right. Should
00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:31.820
I go to my questions? I mean, I think it's time.
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:33.460
I'm going to go to my questions. So we're going
00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:38.420
to shift into, I ask the same questions of all
00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:40.639
of our guests because it's nice to get a perspective.
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:44.039
And then Perry comes in with insanity, but mine
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.679
are just normal questions. That's not that crazy.
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:51.699
Okay. You get to erase one corporate buzzword
00:35:51.699 --> 00:36:01.860
from existence. What is it? AI? How do we talk
00:36:01.860 --> 00:36:06.199
about AI without saying AI? I don't know. I don't
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:09.440
know. But at least for a day, can we just maybe
00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:12.880
eliminate that from maybe agents? I don't know.
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.320
Like all the things that are revolving around
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.480
the AI word cloud. You just need a break. Something.
00:36:20.619 --> 00:36:22.260
I don't know. It's like what you write about
00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:24.360
and what you talk about, but you're like, but
00:36:24.360 --> 00:36:27.090
not today. We're going to take a day off. A little
00:36:27.090 --> 00:36:31.650
fatigued. Okay, next question. You are about
00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:35.309
to walk on stage to give a presentation to 50
00:36:35.309 --> 00:36:39.010
,000 people, screaming fans, if you will. What
00:36:39.010 --> 00:36:43.949
music do you walk out on the stage to? Probably
00:36:43.949 --> 00:36:49.530
Journey. Specific Journey song? Any of them.
00:36:49.590 --> 00:36:53.639
I mean... Something. I mean, I feel like for
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:55.619
50 ,000 people, you need to pick something pretty
00:36:55.619 --> 00:36:58.019
mainstream that appeases the crowd. And Journey's
00:36:58.019 --> 00:37:00.099
got product market fit with that. I was going
00:37:00.099 --> 00:37:03.260
to ask, are you a Journey fan or is this about
00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:05.800
the audience? This was answering the question.
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:10.260
So, yeah, I think I'm not rocking out to Journey,
00:37:10.340 --> 00:37:13.500
but you got to please the people. OK. All right.
00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:16.920
You know, I like Journey. I don't like I'm not
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:19.559
putting Journey on in my car, but like. you know
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:21.219
i'm not changing the channel if it comes on the
00:37:21.219 --> 00:37:23.159
radio right i'm one of them it's going to warm
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:25.760
warm people up so and everybody knows all the
00:37:25.760 --> 00:37:27.960
journey songs because like it's just part of
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:32.820
the ether um okay next question if you had to
00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:39.820
give a ted talk on anything but ai or journalism
00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:45.539
or pr com stuff what would it be you know i gave
00:37:45.539 --> 00:37:50.530
a tedx talk a while back It was about a cross
00:37:50.530 --> 00:37:52.889
-country journey that myself and three friends
00:37:52.889 --> 00:37:54.929
took in an RV interviewing people about their
00:37:54.929 --> 00:37:56.909
career paths. And it highlighted a couple of
00:37:56.909 --> 00:37:59.949
the best stories that we got from the road. And
00:37:59.949 --> 00:38:01.929
one of the best stories that we got was from
00:38:01.929 --> 00:38:05.289
a fainting goat farmer and how baby fainting
00:38:05.289 --> 00:38:07.809
goats don't faint and how, as an entrepreneur,
00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:12.250
you need to essentially block the adrenaline
00:38:12.250 --> 00:38:15.539
that could paralyze you to continue to... take
00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:17.880
actions and keep moving. So probably be a repeat
00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:19.980
of that. Like, quite honestly, baby fainting
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:22.500
goats, as cheesy as it sounds, is like very core
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:25.699
to being a founder. Dude, that sounds awesome.
00:38:25.800 --> 00:38:29.159
Is there a video? I'm interested. Of this? There
00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:33.860
is a very grainy video. I gave a TEDx talk before
00:38:33.860 --> 00:38:36.300
TEDx was cool. So yeah, it was like somewhere
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:38.880
buried in 2010. Man, I feel like we gotta go.
00:38:38.940 --> 00:38:42.429
2010, really? I think it was probably 2010, 2011,
00:38:42.630 --> 00:38:44.010
somewhere around there. Dang, that sounds cool.
00:38:44.150 --> 00:38:45.929
And you should totally reprise that because that
00:38:45.929 --> 00:38:49.130
sounds very interesting. I would watch that.
00:38:51.030 --> 00:38:57.010
My last question, if you could, you only get
00:38:57.010 --> 00:39:00.789
to use one emoji for the rest of your life. Which
00:39:00.789 --> 00:39:04.469
one? Or none? I'm not, yeah, I'm not an emoji
00:39:04.469 --> 00:39:08.690
guy. So maybe just a thumbs up. Going with the
00:39:08.690 --> 00:39:11.280
standard. I'll take it. That's fine. And emojis
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:13.900
are so like out of style now, but it makes me
00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:16.500
so sad. Like AI ruined. I'm all into emojis.
00:39:16.940 --> 00:39:18.619
People probably read my stuff and they're like,
00:39:18.699 --> 00:39:20.940
this guy needs to calm the hell down with his
00:39:20.940 --> 00:39:23.420
emojis. I know. Whatever. That's cool. We're
00:39:23.420 --> 00:39:27.960
old. It is what it is. Perry, over to you, sir.
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.960
Okay. All right. This could go either way, actually.
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:34.739
I wouldn't be surprised if you answered either
00:39:34.739 --> 00:39:37.570
way. I always have a money related question.
00:39:37.670 --> 00:39:39.510
Like, okay, you can get, someone's going to give
00:39:39.510 --> 00:39:42.269
you $50 million right now. 50 million. That's
00:39:42.269 --> 00:39:43.969
F you money. Walk away, do whatever you want
00:39:43.969 --> 00:39:47.230
the rest of your life. But to take that money,
00:39:47.309 --> 00:39:50.670
you can only brush your teeth using your fingers
00:39:50.670 --> 00:39:53.929
and hand soap for the rest of your life. Do you
00:39:53.929 --> 00:39:56.329
take the money and use fingers and hand soap
00:39:56.329 --> 00:39:57.369
for the rest of your life to brush your teeth?
00:39:57.550 --> 00:40:01.369
No, keep working, go earn it. You're not taking
00:40:01.369 --> 00:40:04.409
the money? Okay, that's interesting as hell.
00:40:04.610 --> 00:40:06.869
I have a question. Do you have to brush your
00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:08.829
teeth or can you just be nasty and never brush
00:40:08.829 --> 00:40:11.769
your teeth? I mean, you can do that. I think
00:40:11.769 --> 00:40:13.610
I would brush my teeth with my fingers and soap.
00:40:13.789 --> 00:40:18.190
Me too. 50 mil? If it was like two mil? I thought
00:40:18.190 --> 00:40:19.670
you would have said brush your teeth with fingers
00:40:19.670 --> 00:40:22.269
and soap because you can do a fair job with that.
00:40:22.329 --> 00:40:24.250
Let your fingernails grow a little bit and get
00:40:24.250 --> 00:40:31.619
in there. It would not be pleasant. Yeah. Maybe
00:40:31.619 --> 00:40:35.719
you can take that 50 million and like if you
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:37.679
don't have the restrictions, like can you invest
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:41.619
or can you like create a new technique with some
00:40:41.619 --> 00:40:44.119
of that cash? I'm afraid not. You have to brush
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:48.239
your teeth with your fingers and soap. OK. Yeah.
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:51.139
You know, gross. All right. So I'm going to ask
00:40:51.139 --> 00:40:52.599
you the other one because we haven't done this
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:58.230
this season. Becca is you. how does it work again
00:40:58.230 --> 00:41:04.210
with the hiccups and the, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Can
00:41:04.210 --> 00:41:06.929
you remember? Yeah. Which one would you choose?
00:41:06.969 --> 00:41:09.570
It's just a either or. You have to have hiccups
00:41:09.570 --> 00:41:11.510
or you have to cut off your own pinky, but hiccups
00:41:11.510 --> 00:41:13.590
for six months straight around the clock. You
00:41:13.590 --> 00:41:16.230
can't get rid of them. Sleeping, eating, all
00:41:16.230 --> 00:41:19.389
the things, hiccuping. Around the clock. Or you
00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:21.469
can cut your pinky off and immediately get rid
00:41:21.469 --> 00:41:24.090
of the hiccups, but it's only six months. How
00:41:24.090 --> 00:41:27.380
much of the pinky? No, you have to do one or
00:41:27.380 --> 00:41:29.559
the other. Like the whole pinky? The whole pinky,
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:34.920
yeah. Gone. I'll go hiccups. Yeah, me too. Guess
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:36.780
what Becca's choosing? Going with the pinky.
00:41:37.900 --> 00:41:40.920
So many people, and actually a lot of women would
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:42.480
just cut their pinky off, which is surprising
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:45.980
as hell. Yeah. I feel like there's no way in
00:41:45.980 --> 00:41:48.210
hell that I would want... to live the rest of
00:41:48.210 --> 00:41:50.329
my life like this. I don't think men have experienced
00:41:50.329 --> 00:41:52.989
the level of like body discomfort that women
00:41:52.989 --> 00:41:55.449
have. So we know what happens when you live in
00:41:55.449 --> 00:41:59.760
a sustained state of like, you know. I just feel
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.079
like maybe you could, over the course of the
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:04.619
six months with hiccups, maybe get involved in
00:42:04.619 --> 00:42:07.340
some medical studies. Maybe make it into a more,
00:42:07.420 --> 00:42:10.139
like, promotable story for yourself. Like, this
00:42:10.139 --> 00:42:12.179
guy can't get rid of the hiccups. And then when
00:42:12.179 --> 00:42:15.260
he does, finally, after six months, oh, my gosh.
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.679
You would be an instant TikTok star, honestly.
00:42:17.800 --> 00:42:20.260
Like, the person who can't stop hiccuping. Yeah,
00:42:20.380 --> 00:42:22.340
versus cutting the pinky off. Like, no one wants
00:42:22.340 --> 00:42:24.440
that. It's not a great story. But six months
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:26.820
can't cure. And every problem is an opportunity.
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:29.980
I get you. I feel you. Valid point. No one has
00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:33.460
ever put the positive spin on this question.
00:42:33.559 --> 00:42:35.940
And I am actually impressed that you PR'd the
00:42:35.940 --> 00:42:38.969
question. Could you imagine doing that? Can you
00:42:38.969 --> 00:42:41.070
imagine doing an interview like you do have the
00:42:41.070 --> 00:42:43.829
hiccups and you're like on local TV podcast?
00:42:44.829 --> 00:42:48.550
No. And like, I mean, the host would be trying
00:42:48.550 --> 00:42:50.849
to hold it together to be like to you without
00:42:50.849 --> 00:42:53.969
interrupting. And you're just like, yes, it sucks
00:42:53.969 --> 00:42:55.349
to have them, but I don't even want to be around
00:42:55.349 --> 00:42:57.570
someone else that has them. They drive me insane.
00:42:58.070 --> 00:43:03.070
Yeah. Well, all right. With that, I'm going to
00:43:03.070 --> 00:43:05.989
ask. Because I like to ask everybody, Brett,
00:43:06.090 --> 00:43:08.409
do you have anything that you would like our
00:43:08.409 --> 00:43:10.269
guests to know or that you would like to share
00:43:10.269 --> 00:43:15.409
or direct us to, to find more about you or Featured?
00:43:15.909 --> 00:43:18.389
Yeah, sure. I mean, I'd love for anyone to sign
00:43:18.389 --> 00:43:20.789
up for Featured .com. I would love for you to
00:43:20.789 --> 00:43:23.110
sign up for Help A Reporter out too. Just enter
00:43:23.110 --> 00:43:25.570
in your email address at helpareporter .com and
00:43:25.570 --> 00:43:27.989
then feel free to, if you're a LinkedIn person,
00:43:28.230 --> 00:43:31.110
I use LinkedIn. So feel free to connect with
00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:33.809
me there. But yeah, I appreciate you both having
00:43:33.809 --> 00:43:36.369
me on the show. Yeah. Awesome. It was great having
00:43:36.369 --> 00:43:38.170
you. And I know that my team in particular is
00:43:38.170 --> 00:43:40.230
going to be interested in listening to this one.
00:43:40.289 --> 00:43:43.550
And happy to meet you. Thank you. Yeah. Enjoy
00:43:43.550 --> 00:43:45.690
the Super Bowl out in the Bay. Yeah. Go Pats.