WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.070 --> 00:00:01.929
For Americans. Now to this.
2
00:00:01.970 --> 00:00:05.860
A mysterious death at a Russian anti-plague lab has caught
3
00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380
the attention of the world. And now the mother of
4
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.419
the dead scientist is reportedly challenging the story. The Telegraph
5
00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:15.400
reports the worker's mother told Russian media she doesn't believe
6
00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:19.109
her daughter broke a test tube containing plague bacteria and
7
00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:21.850
accuses Russian officials of letting her daughter die.
8
00:00:22.629 --> 00:00:25.730
Here's what we know. September 25th, a.
9
00:00:25.750 --> 00:00:29.010
Lab worker reportedly breaks a test tube containing plague bacteria.
10
00:00:29.449 --> 00:00:34.030
Four days later, she's hospitalized with severe pneumonia symptoms. October 2nd,
11
00:00:34.070 --> 00:00:38.070
she dies. Nearly 200 people are then reportedly placed under
12
00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.350
medical observation. Now, the World Health Organization and the U.S.
13
00:00:42.390 --> 00:00:46.090
are seeking answers with unconfirmed reports of a second death.
14
00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:49.520
But Russia says there's no evidence of a lab accident
15
00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:52.920
and hasn't confirmed plague as the cause of death. So
16
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.070
could there be something more to this story? That was
17
00:00:56.210 --> 00:00:57.670
asked yesterday of President Trump.
18
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A bio weapon?
19
00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:04.989
Well, we don't think so. We're going to find out
20
00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:05.890
soon enough, but we.
21
00:01:05.859 --> 00:01:06.500
Don't think so.
22
00:01:07.420 --> 00:01:08.340
And if you.
23
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Listen to them, it's under control.
24
00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:13.150
Are you getting the same vibe right now from Russia
25
00:01:13.170 --> 00:01:15.530
that you got from China at the start of COVID?
26
00:01:15.750 --> 00:01:18.670
Well, China didn't say much, and Russia's not saying much either,
27
00:01:18.689 --> 00:01:20.829
but they do say they have it very much under control.
28
00:01:22.269 --> 00:01:25.170
Now, there's no confirmed evidence that this involved a bioweapon,
29
00:01:25.209 --> 00:01:28.890
but here's why that question is important. In 1973, the
30
00:01:29.049 --> 00:01:33.109
Soviet Union established an agency that hid bioweapons research behind
31
00:01:33.150 --> 00:01:33.810
civilian labs.
32
00:01:34.469 --> 00:01:36.329
That was anthrax, plague, smallpox.
33
00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:41.700
In 1979, an anthrax release at a Soviet facility killed
34
00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:47.000
over 100 people. And in 1992, the Soviet Union admitted
35
00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:52.629
to running an offensive bioweapons program. So let's answer some
36
00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:54.909
of these important questions with my next guest, who's the
37
00:01:54.969 --> 00:01:58.750
author of Biological War, a Scenario, which explores what would
38
00:01:58.810 --> 00:02:02.599
happen if a genetically engineered plague escaped from a Russian laboratory.
39
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.439
Investigative journalist Annie Jacobson joins me now. Annie, I'm curious,
40
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.000
you've written this book. Are you concerned that it's now
41
00:02:09.060 --> 00:02:09.930
playing out in real life?
42
00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:15.490
Well, I actually think, you know, one of the phrases
43
00:02:15.509 --> 00:02:19.449
that comes to mind is that sunlight is a great disinfectant.
44
00:02:19.569 --> 00:02:22.310
And thanks for that. You know, those graphics you put
45
00:02:22.370 --> 00:02:26.340
up front, because the whole world has been watching this story.
46
00:02:26.379 --> 00:02:29.439
And I think what is remarkable about it is people
47
00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:33.889
are coming to understand that Russia has had a biological
48
00:02:33.969 --> 00:02:39.550
weapons program in the past, a very robust, dangerous, malevolent one,
49
00:02:40.210 --> 00:02:45.270
and that the current State Department and former State Departments,
50
00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:51.229
not a partisan issue, believe that that illegal biological weapons
51
00:02:51.270 --> 00:02:55.610
program has been absorbed into a current one. That is
52
00:02:55.669 --> 00:02:59.009
a very big deal among subject matter experts that are
53
00:02:59.050 --> 00:03:04.460
worried about genetically modified pathogens causing a catastrophe. And so
54
00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:08.139
separate from the facts on the ground about what's going on,
55
00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:11.060
and there are, of course, a lot of discrepancies, again,
56
00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:13.280
I think it's really terrific that so many people are
57
00:03:13.389 --> 00:03:16.469
asking questions about this and wanting to know what on
58
00:03:16.650 --> 00:03:19.810
earth is going on, what even is an illegal biological
59
00:03:19.830 --> 00:03:20.610
weapons program.
60
00:03:21.250 --> 00:03:24.969
Well, obviously, part of what gets everyone's attention is the plague.
61
00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:27.240
Everyone's familiar from their history books of what happened when
62
00:03:27.259 --> 00:03:31.620
the plague was a problem in the mid-century, the 1500s,
63
00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.879
the 1400s, the 1300s. But I've seen what you've been writing,
64
00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.150
and what you're pointing out that should be just as
65
00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:41.009
concerning as the word plague is the way the Russians
66
00:03:41.050 --> 00:03:41.550
are responding.
67
00:03:41.569 --> 00:03:43.270
Their actions are not meeting their words.
68
00:03:43.389 --> 00:03:46.229
They're saying no big deal, but the way they respond
69
00:03:46.310 --> 00:03:48.449
to this doesn't communicate no big deal.
70
00:03:50.050 --> 00:03:53.729
Absolutely. I mean, look, I wrote a book called Biological War,
71
00:03:53.909 --> 00:03:58.659
A Scenario, not Biological War, The Only Scenario. And my
72
00:03:58.699 --> 00:04:03.740
reporting is based on interviews with the top subject matter experts,
73
00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:07.219
people who advise the president, people who are involved in
74
00:04:07.250 --> 00:04:13.210
the military, the intelligence community, DHS, HHS, CDC. And all
75
00:04:13.250 --> 00:04:18.269
of them are very seriously concerned about genetic modifications to
76
00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:22.740
Mother Nature's pathogen plague that you're talking about. It is
77
00:04:22.829 --> 00:04:28.269
such a dangerous pathogen. Now, it can be taken care
78
00:04:28.370 --> 00:04:35.189
of with antibiotics. However, a major component to biological weapons programs,
79
00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:39.410
with the Soviets having led this charge, is to create
80
00:04:40.189 --> 00:04:45.980
pathogens that are resistant to antibiotics. So that's the real
81
00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:48.939
nightmare scenario, and that's the one I write about in
82
00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:53.699
my book, where you have pneumonic plague modified for greater transmissibility,
83
00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:59.910
greater virulence, and able to defeat medical countermeasures. That's called
84
00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:04.230
a tier one select agent, and that's what the military
85
00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:07.269
and the intelligence community is most concerned about.
86
00:05:07.750 --> 00:05:09.389
And just to be clear, Annie, you think that the
87
00:05:09.430 --> 00:05:12.060
way the Russians are responding, the FSB has been involved,
88
00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:17.060
the quarantine of over 200 people, that suggests something dangerous.
89
00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:21.879
Most certainly. It's my understanding, and I've been looking at
90
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.639
this since October 1 when it first happened, And of course,
91
00:05:25.660 --> 00:05:28.019
Siberia is like a whole almost a whole day, you know,
92
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.560
very hours ahead of where we are, is that FSB
93
00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:36.259
was Johnny on the spot very quickly after this worker
94
00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.759
got sick and was hospitalized, if you believe those reports.
95
00:05:39.819 --> 00:05:42.910
But either way, you're talking about FSB is the sort
96
00:05:42.930 --> 00:05:46.889
of follow on organization to the KGB. And these are
97
00:05:47.189 --> 00:05:52.470
armed federal law enforcement officers. They escorted individuals to quarantine.
98
00:05:52.850 --> 00:05:56.170
Quarantine is not voluntary. that you are essentially locked up.
99
00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:00.459
What has happened to any of those 200 individuals who
100
00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:03.540
were reportedly under quarantine? We have no idea.
101
00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:07.149
All right. Well, we'll look for more answers. Annie Jacobson,
102
00:06:07.170 --> 00:06:08.290
thanks for being with us here today.
103
00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:10.029
Thanks for having me.
1
00:00:00.070 --> 00:00:01.929
For Americans. Now to this.
2
00:00:01.970 --> 00:00:05.860
A mysterious death at a Russian anti-plague lab has caught
3
00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.380
the attention of the world. And now the mother of
4
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.419
the dead scientist is reportedly challenging the story. The Telegraph
5
00:00:12.460 --> 00:00:15.400
reports the worker's mother told Russian media she doesn't believe
6
00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:19.109
her daughter broke a test tube containing plague bacteria and
7
00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:21.850
accuses Russian officials of letting her daughter die.
8
00:00:22.629 --> 00:00:25.730
Here's what we know. September 25th, a.
9
00:00:25.750 --> 00:00:29.010
Lab worker reportedly breaks a test tube containing plague bacteria.
10
00:00:29.449 --> 00:00:34.030
Four days later, she's hospitalized with severe pneumonia symptoms. October 2nd,
11
00:00:34.070 --> 00:00:38.070
she dies. Nearly 200 people are then reportedly placed under
12
00:00:38.130 --> 00:00:42.350
medical observation. Now, the World Health Organization and the U.S.
13
00:00:42.390 --> 00:00:46.090
are seeking answers with unconfirmed reports of a second death.
14
00:00:46.979 --> 00:00:49.520
But Russia says there's no evidence of a lab accident
15
00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:52.920
and hasn't confirmed plague as the cause of death. So
16
00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:56.070
could there be something more to this story? That was
17
00:00:56.210 --> 00:00:57.670
asked yesterday of President Trump.
18
00:01:01.490 --> 00:01:02.409
A bio weapon?
19
00:01:02.810 --> 00:01:04.989
Well, we don't think so. We're going to find out
20
00:01:05.010 --> 00:01:05.890
soon enough, but we.
21
00:01:05.859 --> 00:01:06.500
Don't think so.
22
00:01:07.420 --> 00:01:08.340
And if you.
23
00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:10.870
Listen to them, it's under control.
24
00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:13.150
Are you getting the same vibe right now from Russia
25
00:01:13.170 --> 00:01:15.530
that you got from China at the start of COVID?
26
00:01:15.750 --> 00:01:18.670
Well, China didn't say much, and Russia's not saying much either,
27
00:01:18.689 --> 00:01:20.829
but they do say they have it very much under control.
28
00:01:22.269 --> 00:01:25.170
Now, there's no confirmed evidence that this involved a bioweapon,
29
00:01:25.209 --> 00:01:28.890
but here's why that question is important. In 1973, the
30
00:01:29.049 --> 00:01:33.109
Soviet Union established an agency that hid bioweapons research behind
31
00:01:33.150 --> 00:01:33.810
civilian labs.
32
00:01:34.469 --> 00:01:36.329
That was anthrax, plague, smallpox.
33
00:01:37.530 --> 00:01:41.700
In 1979, an anthrax release at a Soviet facility killed
34
00:01:41.739 --> 00:01:47.000
over 100 people. And in 1992, the Soviet Union admitted
35
00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:52.629
to running an offensive bioweapons program. So let's answer some
36
00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:54.909
of these important questions with my next guest, who's the
37
00:01:54.969 --> 00:01:58.750
author of Biological War, a Scenario, which explores what would
38
00:01:58.810 --> 00:02:02.599
happen if a genetically engineered plague escaped from a Russian laboratory.
39
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.439
Investigative journalist Annie Jacobson joins me now. Annie, I'm curious,
40
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.000
you've written this book. Are you concerned that it's now
41
00:02:09.060 --> 00:02:09.930
playing out in real life?
42
00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:15.490
Well, I actually think, you know, one of the phrases
43
00:02:15.509 --> 00:02:19.449
that comes to mind is that sunlight is a great disinfectant.
44
00:02:19.569 --> 00:02:22.310
And thanks for that. You know, those graphics you put
45
00:02:22.370 --> 00:02:26.340
up front, because the whole world has been watching this story.
46
00:02:26.379 --> 00:02:29.439
And I think what is remarkable about it is people
47
00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:33.889
are coming to understand that Russia has had a biological
48
00:02:33.969 --> 00:02:39.550
weapons program in the past, a very robust, dangerous, malevolent one,
49
00:02:40.210 --> 00:02:45.270
and that the current State Department and former State Departments,
50
00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:51.229
not a partisan issue, believe that that illegal biological weapons
51
00:02:51.270 --> 00:02:55.610
program has been absorbed into a current one. That is
52
00:02:55.669 --> 00:02:59.009
a very big deal among subject matter experts that are
53
00:02:59.050 --> 00:03:04.460
worried about genetically modified pathogens causing a catastrophe. And so
54
00:03:05.099 --> 00:03:08.139
separate from the facts on the ground about what's going on,
55
00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:11.060
and there are, of course, a lot of discrepancies, again,
56
00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:13.280
I think it's really terrific that so many people are
57
00:03:13.389 --> 00:03:16.469
asking questions about this and wanting to know what on
58
00:03:16.650 --> 00:03:19.810
earth is going on, what even is an illegal biological
59
00:03:19.830 --> 00:03:20.610
weapons program.
60
00:03:21.250 --> 00:03:24.969
Well, obviously, part of what gets everyone's attention is the plague.
61
00:03:25.379 --> 00:03:27.240
Everyone's familiar from their history books of what happened when
62
00:03:27.259 --> 00:03:31.620
the plague was a problem in the mid-century, the 1500s,
63
00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:35.879
the 1400s, the 1300s. But I've seen what you've been writing,
64
00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:38.150
and what you're pointing out that should be just as
65
00:03:38.189 --> 00:03:41.009
concerning as the word plague is the way the Russians
66
00:03:41.050 --> 00:03:41.550
are responding.
67
00:03:41.569 --> 00:03:43.270
Their actions are not meeting their words.
68
00:03:43.389 --> 00:03:46.229
They're saying no big deal, but the way they respond
69
00:03:46.310 --> 00:03:48.449
to this doesn't communicate no big deal.
70
00:03:50.050 --> 00:03:53.729
Absolutely. I mean, look, I wrote a book called Biological War,
71
00:03:53.909 --> 00:03:58.659
A Scenario, not Biological War, The Only Scenario. And my
72
00:03:58.699 --> 00:04:03.740
reporting is based on interviews with the top subject matter experts,
73
00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:07.219
people who advise the president, people who are involved in
74
00:04:07.250 --> 00:04:13.210
the military, the intelligence community, DHS, HHS, CDC. And all
75
00:04:13.250 --> 00:04:18.269
of them are very seriously concerned about genetic modifications to
76
00:04:18.370 --> 00:04:22.740
Mother Nature's pathogen plague that you're talking about. It is
77
00:04:22.829 --> 00:04:28.269
such a dangerous pathogen. Now, it can be taken care
78
00:04:28.370 --> 00:04:35.189
of with antibiotics. However, a major component to biological weapons programs,
79
00:04:35.370 --> 00:04:39.410
with the Soviets having led this charge, is to create
80
00:04:40.189 --> 00:04:45.980
pathogens that are resistant to antibiotics. So that's the real
81
00:04:46.060 --> 00:04:48.939
nightmare scenario, and that's the one I write about in
82
00:04:48.980 --> 00:04:53.699
my book, where you have pneumonic plague modified for greater transmissibility,
83
00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:59.910
greater virulence, and able to defeat medical countermeasures. That's called
84
00:04:59.949 --> 00:05:04.230
a tier one select agent, and that's what the military
85
00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:07.269
and the intelligence community is most concerned about.
86
00:05:07.750 --> 00:05:09.389
And just to be clear, Annie, you think that the
87
00:05:09.430 --> 00:05:12.060
way the Russians are responding, the FSB has been involved,
88
00:05:12.379 --> 00:05:17.060
the quarantine of over 200 people, that suggests something dangerous.
89
00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:21.879
Most certainly. It's my understanding, and I've been looking at
90
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:25.639
this since October 1 when it first happened, And of course,
91
00:05:25.660 --> 00:05:28.019
Siberia is like a whole almost a whole day, you know,
92
00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.560
very hours ahead of where we are, is that FSB
93
00:05:31.620 --> 00:05:36.259
was Johnny on the spot very quickly after this worker
94
00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.759
got sick and was hospitalized, if you believe those reports.
95
00:05:39.819 --> 00:05:42.910
But either way, you're talking about FSB is the sort
96
00:05:42.930 --> 00:05:46.889
of follow on organization to the KGB. And these are
97
00:05:47.189 --> 00:05:52.470
armed federal law enforcement officers. They escorted individuals to quarantine.
98
00:05:52.850 --> 00:05:56.170
Quarantine is not voluntary. that you are essentially locked up.
99
00:05:56.800 --> 00:06:00.459
What has happened to any of those 200 individuals who
100
00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:03.540
were reportedly under quarantine? We have no idea.
101
00:06:04.480 --> 00:06:07.149
All right. Well, we'll look for more answers. Annie Jacobson,
102
00:06:07.170 --> 00:06:08.290
thanks for being with us here today.
103
00:06:08.310 --> 00:06:10.029
Thanks for having me.
