S2:E9 The Great Garden Show Question Time

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Welcome back to the Newt Podcast.
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With me, Arthur Cole.
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Join us for a walk through the estate with our invited guests to the backdrop of the Somerset landscape and its wildlife residence.
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This week, we welcome a host of horticultural voices to the estate to participate in the inaugural Great Garden Show.
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Join us to hear the panel of garden gurus answer questions from the audience.
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Recorded live from the Newt's Museum of Gardening.
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We feature glamorous garden designer and friend of the podcast, Marion Boswell, No Dig King, Newt Neighbour, and another friend of the podcast, Charles Dowding.
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Hugh's former head of Arboretum and Titan of Trees, Tony Kirkham.
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Royal Parks and Gardens, head of horticulture and strategy, and BBC Gardener's Question Time, Matthew Pottage.
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And to top it off, the gentle tones of Gardening National Treasure, Alan Titchmarsh.
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Let's jump straight in.
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Okay, good morning everybody.
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Welcome.
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It's finally here, the great garden show.
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Question time!
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Woo!
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It's fantastic to have so many people here today in the story of gardening.
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And it looks like we have lots of gardeners that you can shake your rake at, which is really exciting.
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My name's Harry, I'm the head gardener here at the nude, and I'm joined by our stellar panel.
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We have Marianne Boswell, we have Tony Kirkham, Matthew Pottage, Anne Titchmarsh, and Charles Dowding.
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Tony Kirkham, former head of Q's Arboretum and Gardens, where he spent more than 40 years becoming one of the country's best-known tree experts.
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Even if he doesn't know it, then quite frankly, we're stuffed.
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Charles Dowding, renowned horticulturist, author, educator, and best known for pioneering the no-dig method, quietly saving gardeners backs and needless digging for decades.
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Matthew Pottedge, former curator of RHS Whisley and now head of horticulture and landscape strategy at the Royal Parks, a great lover of plants in all forms.
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The more variegated, the more coniferous, the better.
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Marion Boswell, award-winning designer and champion of regenerative gardening, proven that working with nature is often far more successful than arguing with it.
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An Alan Titchmarsh, who needs little introduction, who has inspired generations of gardeners across the country and somehow still manages to make it all look wonderfully calm.
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Okay, so have your questions armed at the ready.
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Let's also make sure that we keep our phones on silent.
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Please do take photos and do take videos, but let's just keep noise to a minimum.
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We will pass the microphone down.
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So when has when someone has that burning question, just wait till you get to the microphone and keep it just like this.
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That's how I should be doing it now.
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So keep it nice and close to your mouth.
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Just so we can capture that on our new podcasts, but also importantly, making sure that everybody can hear the question.
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Okay, so we have one hour.
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We'll try our best to get through to as many questions as possible.
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And now, just before we get started, I want to make things just a little bit more interesting.
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It had a bit of competitive spirit amongst the audience.
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Tony has very kindly brought his new book, The Tree Manual, and it's been signed today by all of the panelists.
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So the book will go to the person who has asked the question that stimulates our panelists the most, which I'm sure you'll agree may be quite a challenge.
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So in a moment we'll open up the floor for questions, but myself being at the front, and of course being the head gardener, I've got to get my question in first.
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So let's just think about the weather.
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Us gardeners are always thinking, what's going on with the weather?
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And looking back this year, over the winter, we've had a really wet, also mild winter.
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April, really dry, actually quite warm.
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May, it's out there today, it's cold, you know, a little more than 12 degrees.
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And quite often we're always taught, let's keep planting for drought tolerance.
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You know, but actually, do we need to start thinking more about planting for the wet as well?
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You know, how do we go about that?
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I wanted to pick on Matthew Pottage to begin with.
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Matt, you've just opened the amazing new garden, uh, the Queen Elizabeth Garden, and I think the planting there maybe is quite a nod to this subject.
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Do you want to kick us off, please?
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Uh thank you.
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Oh, that's loud.
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Um, yeah, so we have created a new two-acre garden at the Regents Park, and we've used lots of building waste because it was a brownfield site, crushed up loads of concrete, and we've planted into that.
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And going to your question or kind of your point, Harry, the problem here is it's not just about planting drought-tolerant plants because our winters are getting wetter.
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And my goodness, it felt like it rained for six months constantly.
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Regents Park is on really heavy clay soil, it's the most revolting London clay.
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You can make bricks from the stuff.
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So if we were just planting all those med plants into that clay soil, bless you, for the last and the winter rain, I think, would have finished off quite a lot of those plants.
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And then, you know, the west side of the country is actually forecast and predicted to get wetter in the winter.
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So it's not just about drought tolerance, it's about resilience of waterlogging and then resilience with winter dry, sorry, summer drought.
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So it's really, really challenging.
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Tony, your new book, The Tree Manual, you've got some great chapters in there.
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Um, what do you say about you know now planting for the future?
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Well, yeah, uh following on from what Matt said, we've got these wet, warm winters, uh, and then believe it or not, the last 10 years of A the last 10 years, April has been drought, no rain, and this year's following on, no rain in April.
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Um, and then hot summers.
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And our our climate, predicted climate for 2050 in this part of the world, our summers will be like Barcelona.
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So, you know, temperatures peaking 40 degrees, which is going to be really hot.
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And a lot of the trees that we have planted now, and a lot of the trees that are in our landscape, and especially a lot of the native trees, just aren't going to hack that.
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Even last year, driving down the M4 or the 303, the M3, all along the verges, you have birches browning, Scots pines, browning, really, really struggling with that weather.
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So, what we're gonna do, Harry, is start thinking outside the box.
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Uh, we're gonna have a non-native climate by 2050, so we've got to start looking at non-native trees and integrate natives and non-natives, so not stop planting natives, but they're gonna need some support, and we're gonna need canopy cover, so we're gonna need at least 30% canopy cover by 2050.
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That's a real tough call, and particularly in urban situations.
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So, we need what we call shade trees, so trees that are gonna make big trees with broad canopies that are gonna give us that um canopy cover and and protection from those high UV levels by 2050.
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So, mixing natives with non-natives, don't be afraid, and uh and we we will have a tree scape by 2050.
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If we don't, we won't.
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Thank you, Tony.
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Marianne.
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Yeah, well, I would echo that we need a canopy, but I think we also have to think about what's going on underground and vary the size of the roots underground.
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So I think to have a really resilient garden to cope with wet and dry, we need some plants which have really big taproots which are going to go down and source the water and source all the different minerals, but water particularly.
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And then we need some of the plants which have side creeping roots, which are going to take advantage of the soil and hold on to the soil in times of rain.
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So, really, it's the layers which are most important to make sure that we have plenty of coolness.
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So when you like dandelions, we've seen a whole host, anybody got a mass of dandelions in their garden?
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They cool your soil to begin with, because they've got these lovely broad leaves, fantastically useful plant.
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So I think if we can think of what's happening underground as well as what's above ground, it's really important for resilience.
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And Charles, I'm just going to come to you now, because I know recently you wrote an article and you said think of your soil as a living organism, which I think is so true.
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Can you just explain a bit more about what you mean by that?
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Yeah, well, it's clearly full of life, and if we can favour the life in the soil, that actually helps the soil to enable plants to survive a lot of these difficult conditions that we're talking about.
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The old saying the answer lies in the soil is very true.
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And I think it can sometimes lead you a bit down a blind alley to worry too much about uh current conditions, which is weather, and predictions of future conditions, which is climate, but we don't know what what it's going to do actually.
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And we can still have, you know, maybe it's going to get a bit warmer generally, but we still have really cold weather.
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So my approach is based on getting the soil really healthy, free draining.
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Um, I'm on quite a clay soil, but I didn't have any problems from that in the winter we've just had.
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And likewise, in really dry conditions with no dig particularly, and uh plenty of organic matter, your soil can hold on to the moisture that is there from the winter.
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So, yeah, go for it in the soil and you'll be alright, it's my view.
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Now, Alan, I know you've just about to move house and you've got a lovely new garden.
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We're not calling it the B-word, it's a lower story property.
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What are you what are you going to be planting in your garden now thinking about our changing climate?
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Well, um I'm I'm being broad-based, but I've been 45 years on uh alkaline chalk downland uh in my last two gardens, and I've moved only a matter of seven or eight miles across the border.
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I lived in Hampshire, and they used to say about living in Hampshire, living in Hampshire means never having to say you're sorry.
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And I just moved to Surrey.
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However, I'm on acid sand, and having had almost 50 years of not being able to grow rhododendrons, Camellia's Azalea's peer is acid lovers, I now can.
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So it's given me a shot in the arm, just in terms of looking at a flora that is more appropriate.
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And that's exciting.
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I love that.
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But I'm I'm totally with almost everything the panel said, particularly with Charles's.
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So we must learn to differentiate between climate and weather.
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Um and there's always a danger.
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I'm not in any way a climate change denier, it is clearly happening, but there's always a danger in extrapolation.
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If this keeps happening at this rate for that length of time, this is what will happen.
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But it never does, does it?
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It goes up and down and up and down.
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And although there is this increase, exactly what Tony says, we need to be, thinking outside the box, call it what you will, expanding what we grow.
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And this is one of the dangers of people promulgating rewilding as being the answer to all our ills.
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We need to be helping wildlife by rewilding, only using British native plants.
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If you are, you'll be reducing and you'll be introducing an ever-decreasing number, because a lot of them are.
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As Tony says, birch trees are disappearing.
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We need to be future-proofing our gardens for ourselves and for wildlife.
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Bees are not remotely fussy on the country of origin of a plant as nectar and pollen.
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They're really quite grateful it's there.
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And we're gardeners.
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We're not being irresponsible by introducing things.
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Japanese knotweed, tricky.
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Ground elder, tricky.
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But but by broadening what we grow, we're ensuring a better climate in the end, better, you know, conditions in our gardens for everything and everybody.
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So do not feel embarrassed about broadening what you grow.
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If you'd like French marigolds, grow them.
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You know, don't be don't be a plant snob.
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Um, it it means broadening what you grow, widening uh the list of what you do, and not being hidebound by things like no mow may.
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What happens in June to those poor little things when you cut it all off?
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Have some areas of your garden where the grass stays long till autumn, then mow it, and other areas which are mown have stripes if you want, because the blackbirds, the thrushes, the starlings, and all those close mown feeders will thank you.
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End of rant.
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Lovely, thank you, panellists.
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Right, I want to open up the room to a question.
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Please, who wants to put their hand up first?
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Let me just pass you the microphone, please.
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Hello, it's lovely to talk to you all, and um I would like to ask you all what drives you to continue to teach, to continue to garden, and to continue to write your books and all that knowledge you've gained over the years and direct it rightly at me and others.
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It's a question to Alan.
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Oh, I've just said enough, but I'll say a bit more then, but briefly.
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Passion.
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Passion, enthusiasm, love for what's out there, the walk from the house to here today.
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It's like going to the National Gallery and looking at absolutely every pl every picture.
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You get to the end of it, the exhibition you're meant to be going to, and you're exhausted by what you've seen already.
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Um, the richness of what we can grow, the excitement of growing new things, and knowing, I always think of gardening as being the sharp end of conservation.
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We gardeners don't get enough credit for looking after the planet.
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We just get it in the neck when we're using a hose pipe, when there's a hose pipe, bam, when 20% of water is lost by leaks.
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You know, we do our bit and we need to be more respected, I think, not just as individuals, but as a race, it should be acknowledged what gardeners are achieving and all those little patches that join together, doing their bit for the good of this little pattern of islands.
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Um, and the reason I'm sure the others will say the same is we don't assume this interest in the in the interest of making a living.
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You know, you're talking here about five people who are absolutely ridiculously passionate about what they do, and when we get together, you can't shut us up because we're comparing notes there all the time.
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It's it's the best thing there, isn't it?
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It's far better than stamp collecting.
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Brilliant, thank you.
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Yes.
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Yeah, grassroots PR, hi.
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Um, I think it's important that we should encourage the youngsters, the youth and youngsters of today to keep your passion going.
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Um, how do you suggest we can do that?
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Is it something we can do through schools or talks?
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What what can we do to make sure that we are handing the baton over to the younger generation?
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Yeah, shall I um it's a very good point, actually.
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And what we're finding is that fewer and fewer people are coming into horticulture and we're struggling to do recruitment exercises, recruitment drives.
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Uh, I'd like to think we're at the turning point and it and it's turning round, and that we will start to see more people come into it.
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But I think it's we've got to get in schools.
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That's where that's where it starts.
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And actually, I've got a two and a half-year-old grandson, and I was babysitting last weekend, which is harder than gardening, actually.
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Um, but I gave him the horsepipe and asked him to water the garden, and he spent an hour watering the garden.
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And I showed Alan the video, you know, he he while he was watering, he was looking around to see what was next, and he and he didn't miss anything.
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He'll never forget that.
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And I hope that that rubs off and it and he goes into gardening.
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And then last night uh I was I was writing letters.
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I had a school in Birmingham uh that were doing uh an environmental project, and they wrote to me as uh an environmental endeavor, um, which I found amazing.
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Um, and these children just wrote and said that they were planting trees in their playing field.
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What more could they do to make the environment better?
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And I wrote back to all, I and every letter, I didn't just cut and paste the same letter because they're all from the same school and they're gonna swap and see what I said, but I wrote letters back to all of those children, and I think we just have to catch them at an early age, you know.
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Um, I when I was at school, I I wanted to work with trees.
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I knew that from the age of 10.
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And when I went for my careers lesson, and I think these the careers teachers are the ones we've got to capture.
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I I was doing woodwork, I was in a technical school, and uh and the careers teacher said, What do you want to do when you leave school, Tony?
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I said, I'd like to work with trees.
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And he he flicked over about three sheets of paper on his clipboard and he said, Woodwork teacher.
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Um, and there's a lot, I said, You've got the wrong end of the stick, and I ignored him, looked, yeah, and I and that's what I did.
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So I think it's capturing children at an early age and giving them encouragement so that you know they can see what they're achieving and and and doing and and then and giving them encouragement and not selling horticulture as a dead end job, because we've all done well from it, we love it, like Alan said, uh, um, we'll keep doing it.
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We'll probably dig our own graves, I think.
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Well, still can, but I'm not sure how long that'll go on then.
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I think giving them a comfortableness with being outside is is a big thing, making it a place they love to be.
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And and you can add on all the other bits later, but your little little grandson there with his oceboat, does he travel?
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Because I've got a lot of watering on my sandy soil.
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Matt, I want to just yeah, go.
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Yeah, one of the things that attracted me to work in public parks actually was the impact we can have through exciting plants and exciting horticulture.
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And I think you can you can tell people to care, you can tell people what they should do and what they should think, but people need to have a moment themselves.
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And I think there's a phenomena called plant blindness, where people who aren't connected to nature or gardens, they don't see plants, they don't read them, they just see greenery.
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And I think how do you get people to stop in their tracks and notice something?
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Because the moment they notice it and start to engage, they might take a photo, they might put it on their social media, you're then starting that thought process and that journey into what is that and why is it important?
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And what I'm passionate about in the parks in London is a wider range of plants we can grow because not everybody likes the same thing.
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And it's really interesting what age groups will stop and photograph different types of plants.
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And we're seeing a we see a very young audience, a big social media audience, come in to photograph themselves with cherry blossom.
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And you know, some people get very cross about that.
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Oh, the influences are here having their selfies with a cherry blossom.
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:14.000
But brilliant, they're they've come to a park to interact with a tree, and they're struck by the beauty of it, and then they're putting it on their social media networks.
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:14.799
So brilliant.
00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:16.400
So I think you need to capture people.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:23.039
Beauty is a really strong thing, and you can't tell people what they should or shouldn't find attractive, even though some people like to try.
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:29.200
But I think give them a wide range of beautiful plants and landscapes, and it might just capture people's imagination.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.039
I didn't have any horticultural training at school, it was never on the curriculum.
00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:40.640
But what got me was my grandma showing me different cactus plants, and it was just that was what inspired me, and then that then I started to collect them.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:48.640
So, you know, you'd never know what impact you're having on a young person if just by exposing them to something interesting, and it might just, you know, plant a seed.
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:52.000
Marianne, I can see you nodding there.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.839
Oh yes, well, I the grandmothers and grandfathers.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:01.680
Also, I don't think don't underestimate your own impact on on any age of person.
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:03.680
It doesn't, it's not just children we're after.
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.079
If you can plant the seed into a child, then I believe it always comes back.
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.720
And there's a story which I've told too many times to retell it about my grandmother and I.
00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:14.880
It's in the beginning of my book, it's on YouTube.
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.680
It's beautiful because of her.
00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:21.839
But I think all of us can also plant the seed in any of our friends.
00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.599
And just having an acceptance that yes, I would love to hug a tree.
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:26.960
Would you like to come and hug a tree with me?
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:28.000
Isn't that a lovely thing to do?
00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:30.720
Isn't that kind of cooler than looking at something?
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.359
Maybe even looking at the thing on YouTube I've just mentioned.
00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:38.000
There's a 1655 tree in these grounds.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:41.359
It's got a plaque on it, it's near the bee uh centre.
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:43.440
How venerable is that?
00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:50.880
I mean, if we all just went and took some of the energy from that tree and passed it around our friendship groups, whatever age we are, that's magical.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:52.319
Thank you.
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:59.759
Yeah, we're we're we're finding a massive interest amongst children in uh both nodig and growing their own food.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:09.599
And we've started a Future Gardeners newsletter where we every month we publish that and feature stories from around the country, anybody who wants to be in it.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:17.359
And it's no struggle to find find people, children who want to talk about what they're doing, or grown-ups who want to talk about what they're doing.
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:26.799
And it's definitely no dig really helps because kids like not having to work too hard or do lots of weeding, which can become a chore.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:38.160
And it brought it home to me when on Instagram a couple of years ago, suddenly I got a direct message from a little boy who's only eight years old, and he calls himself the No Dig Kid.
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:47.039
And he's Alby, and he's created a beautiful no-dig garden, and he's really proud of that, and he wants to go out there and teach lots of other children.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:49.519
So I'm really encouraging that.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:23:00.079
I've written a book called No Dig Gardening for Children, and on the cover, the publishers wanted to put an image which had the child holding a dirty radish, but he had a glove on.
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:11.119
And I said, No, no, it should be bare skin, because that's another really important part of it is children's health and getting their them involved in something dirty like soil.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.799
It turns out the soil biome is really valuable to everybody's gut.
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:16.640
So making those links as well.
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.279
Alan says, just being outside is a big step in the right direction.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:25.440
So yeah, we're we're we're doing a lot and finding, I mean, lockdown really helped.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:26.960
That got the ball rolling.
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.720
And now it's certainly moving.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:34.400
I had a lady say to me once, what can I do about my little boy eating soil?
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:37.119
And I said, make sure he gets enough.
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:43.119
It's all about the uh the microbiome now in your gut.
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:47.680
Um, just to quickly touch on this before I pass the microphone to the audience, I think there's two things here.
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:55.200
I think there's one thing about getting more people into the industry, but there's also something to say for the skills that we're losing in the industry as well.
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:02.720
There's an enormous amount of skill uh within certain professions with the industry, such as propagation, and that isn't being passed down.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:07.119
And I know there's now some efforts now to make sure that we we keep that going.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:13.759
Um, and what was really nice to hear is earlier this week at the Great Garden Show, we hosted a group of new horts.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:19.759
We're calling them new, not young, because we have a number of career changes that do like to then come into the industry.
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:35.839
And we had uh a large number coming, and what was really nice, we had again a seller panel asking questions, but it was always it was all about helping them develop and direct them into the next part of the industry and showcasing how much is available to young horticulturists.
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:37.440
I mean, there isn't another industry like it.
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:55.200
You know, we've got bursaries, you know, huge amounts of money that can support young horticulturists to travel the world and see plants in their natural habitats, or even connecting with other horticulturists worldwide, and they'll always help you out without even knowing you just because you're in that small industry, and I think it's absolutely fantastic.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.960
Right, we're now going to pass uh the microphone again to the audience.
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.000
Please show me your hands for some uh burning questions, please.
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:04.640
Yes, the gentleman at the front.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:06.000
Good morning.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.960
I'm quite interested in companion planting.
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:53.920
Um and uh we've got a couple of books um about sort of vegetable planting, but I'd be quite interested to find out how that can transpose into other areas of planting, whether that be trees, shrubs, um, particularly when it comes to drought, pestilence, um, and other such topics, because we've got um varying areas of woodland and formal garden, and um as we sort of move forward, I'd like the panel's um input on or ideas of how we could actually look after those diverse areas.
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:56.000
Charles, do you want to kick us off?
00:25:56.720 --> 00:25:58.240
Yeah, I'd love to.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:08.799
I mean, uh, because that is the subject of my new book, Grow Together, which is all about exactly this topic and how plants I find it with vegetables, but uh ornamental ones too.
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:14.799
They very few plants, when you put them in the ground, like to be a long way away from their neighbouring plants.
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:18.000
You know, they're a bit like children like that, they just love company.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:27.599
So I'm I'm very much advocating starting new seedlings, for example, very close to existing plants, as long as I know they're going to finish within about a month or so.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:29.119
So that's that's about timing.
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:34.799
I mean, for example, at the moment I'm planting celeria between spinach or beetroot between garlic, for example.
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:44.799
And then in the broader sense, I'd just put in a word for um have any of you heard of the mother tree, which is um by Suzanne Simar.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:54.079
There's a book about that, and and it how in a forest you you can often have one tree she that she's good at identifying that kind of looks after all the others.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:59.119
And plants, again, that thing of how they love to have they have relationship.
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:01.839
So that you know that's kind of what companion planting is.
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:11.200
It's not so much about one plant likes another plant, it's more that they all like each other, as long as they have enough space to grow and moisture and light.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:17.039
I think that's really, really interesting, and I think we can look at so many different plant palettes.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.240
I want to just actually just very quickly touch on roses.
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:31.920
Roses, you know, people always plant a monocrop of one group of plants like roses and don't think about companion planting and then are using you know awful chemicals to keep them looking healthy and keep pests off them.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:38.799
But actually, if we just introduce other plants with it, we're gonna get natural predators to help keep on top of the aphid, etc.
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:39.200
etc.
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.599
Matt, I want to just bring this to you quickly about roses at the raw parks.
00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:45.680
Yeah, it is a challenge.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:49.039
So growing anything as a monoculture is never particularly helpful.
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:54.000
If there's any pest or disease and everything's growing in the same conditions, chances are it's gonna run through.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:58.720
Same if there's you know problems with the soil and if it's attacking one plant and you've got all the same.
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.039
So definitely diversity is key.
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:06.880
But another thing I think when I was listening to your question there was if in doubt, look up how a plant grows in the wild.
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.480
What does it do naturally?
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:10.960
Does it have really you know high light levels?
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:12.559
Does it have lots of plants around it?
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:13.920
Does it need good airflow?
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:15.839
Does it grow as an understory plant?
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:23.839
Because sometimes we're quite good at popping a plant where we think it looks nice in that moment, but actually, does it want to be there and what is its natural habitat?
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.400
I mean, to quote, I love this from Christine Walkden.
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:28.799
She always says, remember the plants don't read the books.
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:39.200
So sometimes, you know, the book tells you what it should like or shouldn't like, but when you look it up online and see how it grows naturally, that can tell you so much more.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:40.160
Thank you, Matt.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:54.000
And and leading on from that, talking about trees, if you if you imagine where trees come from woodlands, uh, very rarely do you see a tree growing as an isolated specimen, and if it is, it's it's remnant from a remnant woodland.
00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:59.279
So trees like to be together, they're quite social beings actually, they communicate together.
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:06.240
Um, so I'm not a lover of planting a single birch in the middle of a lawn that's weed-killed and mown.
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:14.000
If I'm going to plant trees today, then I plant them in groups together and and try and link the tree circles up.
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:19.279
Um, and then it's down to good uh horticulture, good soil, encouraging mycorrhizae.
00:29:19.440 --> 00:29:27.680
So, you know, all trees have have fungi in the root system, mycorrhizal fungi, that forms a symbiotic relationship between the two.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:34.799
And actually, most trees, the water that trees take up is taken up by the mycorrhiza, not by tree roots.
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:44.799
Um, and and they the the mycorrhizal fungi, in exchange for the tree being a host, gives the tree water and gets sugar back from the uh from the tree.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:51.680
So compan planting trees together and and different species diversity and getting those layers as well.
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:54.079
So that your canopy trees and subcanopy.
00:29:54.400 --> 00:30:01.839
And I do sorry, just to chime in on that, I think Great Dixter is a really great masterclass of lots of layering, lots of companion plants.
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:03.920
And as Charles said, things just need a bit of space.
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.000
So get used to pruning for definition.
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:12.400
It might just be a little bit of secretaire work when something's just growing into something else's space, just to give light and air.
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:17.839
Lots of things can live cheap by jarl if you've got your eye in and you're doing regular pruning for definition.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.880
Uh, but Dixter is such a masterclass of seeing that.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:22.000
I like that, Matt.
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:23.200
Pruning for definition.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.160
I say it a lot.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:25.759
I always use it.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:30.720
So when and with shrubberies, this is one of my pet hates, and I'll try not to dominate the next half an hour.
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.720
But people plant shrubberies and then they just let everything grow into everything else.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:39.839
There's no crown lifting, there's no showing off the bark, there's no just bringing the height of that down a little bit.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:50.559
You go to the RHS dictionary, you see what pruning group it's in, and you might do that, but no one does pruning for definition, that aesthetic pruning, where you just, it's like looking at people in a family photograph.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:31:02.720
You want to see everyone's shoulders and head, and there's their space around them to appreciate them, and that's how it should be when you look at a border, unless you're just rewilding and you're letting everything grow into everything else, but and that's a different look and feel.
00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:04.960
But yeah, I love the pruning for definition thing.
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:14.160
I think if you were being regenerative, then you'd go come one step back from rewilding and one step forward from the pruning for aesthetics, and you'd say that you are the grazing animals.
00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:19.839
So, as humans, we are the people who are allowed to go into our gardens and take a nibble of this and a nibble of that.
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:34.000
And actually, we can go a step further and say, well, if we're looking at a natural ecosystem, if we look outside here, we've got the height of the oaks, then we come down to the to the nuts, we might have a few nettles which are fantastic for bringing up nitrogen.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:35.839
You might have some spindles, uranium.
00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:41.680
So we've got that lovely sort of shape, and the Dixta borders are a complete emulation of that shape.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:46.319
You've got your U hedges, then you've got your cotiness, then you've got your herbaceous coming down.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:52.559
But we're always trying to create that sort of ecosystem of all the different layers, and we are part of that ecosystem.
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:57.440
So when we're going out to do a bit of pruning, actually we can listen to what's good for us as well.
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:05.200
So if I'm thinking, right, I'm really stressed today, then I might go out and do a bit of pruning, not roses, because you might end up with no rose.
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:09.759
But you know, you might go out and do some weeding, you might go and do something that's really good for you.
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.599
And on a final note with roses, I grow my roses up trees.
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:20.000
They look after each other, they flower, I don't have to worry about them, and they look exquisite and they look like they do in Bhutan.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:21.599
Fantastic.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:22.640
Lovely.
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.119
We are part of the ecosystem.
00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:34.640
On the other hand, there are wars all over the world that uh we can't bring fertilizers.
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:38.559
Have you heard of pea used as a fertilizer?
00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:41.200
Human pee.
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:42.960
Urea.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:48.160
I well, we have four men in the audience.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.200
I I don't more than that in the audience.
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:56.160
It's a very good fox deterrent on your hedge roll.
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:01.599
I don't pee on my compost, but that's just because it's up here.
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:02.480
It's quite impractical.
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:04.880
But I invite all my male guests to pee on my compost.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:17.119
In my garden I have a compost toilet, and so I'm you're always looking for ways to do this because it's such a waste resource otherwise.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:23.519
And it really pains me to actually go to a normal water closet and flush all that beautiful goodness away.
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:29.759
So if if any of you need to use the toilet on your way home, there's a compost toilet at homemakers.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.759
We're just two miles up the road.
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.480
And in in that we don't tell me attempted to do it off the bridge.
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:38.640
That'd be exciting.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:44.079
There's a bed of hay or straw, and you pee into that, and then we put that on the compost heap.
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.079
So it kind of has a certain period of time.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.559
It's a way of recycling urine very nicely.
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.240
Um, I don't know if I should go into the the bigger topic, perhaps I'll leave that for now.
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.160
In all serious, Thomas Crapper has got a lot to answer for.
00:33:56.640 --> 00:34:02.559
He was the guy that invented the flushing toilet, and we now use clean treated water to flush our loos.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:03.279
It's madness.
00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:04.799
We should all have a compost loo.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:08.320
If you have size in your garden for a compost loo, invest in one, they're brilliant.
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.320
Cleans our rivers, keeps our rivers clean.
00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:11.199
Yeah, that's the future.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:14.800
Just do it in your own garden, not here, please, ladies and gentlemen.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:22.559
I must say though, uh, if you look up videos online with Bob Flowerjew, who's a GQT panelist, Bob loves uh urinating all over the place.
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:30.400
And he's got some very good videos of what he does with it, how he processes it in his garden, and uh probably everything you need to know.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:35.199
Uh I'm very overlooked in my London garden, so I tend to use be old-fashioned and use the loo.
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:40.880
But um, yes, uh, in a more rural setting, I think everyone has different uh levels of acceptance.
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:42.239
Thank you, panellists.
00:34:42.400 --> 00:34:43.840
Right, it's time for our next question.
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:44.559
Yes.
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.920
What sort of work are you doing to work with the government to keep the gardens and growing going?
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:54.639
Because I notice local councils are closing allotments and selling them off to build on.
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.719
All the new builds are bare empty houses with no wildlife.
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.519
I struggle to even get uh birds in my garden.
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:05.519
And most of our food seems to be imported nowadays and covered in chemicals.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:08.960
So, what sort of work are we doing to battle the government to keep this going?
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.599
It feels like we're in a uphill battle.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.719
Um just to kick off on this one.
00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:24.480
So we've now seen in the northeast of England north northeast of England, over 25% of front gardens are being paved over, which I think is is terrible in so many ways.
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:32.960
We're losing habitat, we're losing wildlife, um, it's bad for us mentally, which we certainly know now physically, uh, pollution, runoff, etc.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.920
Um, Tony, I want to come to you firstly about this.
00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:47.599
Yeah, well, last week I was at a I was uh spent the whole day in the XL centre in um in Canary Wharf, well out of my comfort zone.
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:48.639
No windows.
00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:54.079
By two o'clock I was going to sleep, and someone said, Oh yeah, all the oxygen's gone out of the hull.
00:35:54.239 --> 00:36:06.000
But this is future build, and I mean I I would have I would said that 99% of the stands there and talks were about house building, retrofit, sustainability, you name it.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.159
So pretty boring, pretty dull for me.
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:26.239
However, I was there to encourage builders to look at leaving a garden with these new house builds, and rather than four or six paving slabs, a lawn, and a and a full fence, which is what we're seeing today, at least have one tree in each garden.
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:46.639
At the same time, I I'm on council at the RHS and we are lobbying the house builders and the government to create a specification for these 1.5 million houses that are going to be built, that there will at least be some form of garden left rather than just uh a barren site.
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:53.920
So there are quite a few organizations are pr pushing the government to um to do something about it.
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:55.440
I can assure you of that.
00:36:56.000 --> 00:37:02.559
I think that RHS State of Gardening report that was launched, I think, only six months, a year ago, is really, really powerful.
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:04.400
There's loads of takeaways in that.
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.159
But I think everyone needs to own that.
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:12.719
If we all understand gardening and nature and horticulture, we all need to try and do our bit uh and do have a look at that report.
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:19.760
It's got a really powerful summary of what the RHS is trying to push for, and all everyone in this room needs to help support it.
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:22.239
But it's really brilliant what they put together.
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:29.360
I I did a uh symposium, a workshop at Beth Chateau Gardens last year with a lot of the local developers.
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:33.360
And the funny thing is when we say who who are we lobbying to, who who is they?
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:48.239
Because we had these developers in in the room and we were explaining to them the importance of soil and how to turn rubble gardens into either to keep them as rubble gardens or to bring in good soil and to create good soil, they all had good intentions at their heart.
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:49.679
So who is the they?
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:57.199
You know, how how do we suddenly turn to um understanding or to thinking that there's somebody else who's going to take charge of this?
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:02.239
What I want to see is a grading for every house, like a fridge grading.
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:12.239
So when you buy your garden, it can be an A-grade garden, a B-grade garden, or a C grade garden, depending on how much good it's doing for the environment, and you'd have a reduction in rates because of it.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:15.440
So that's what we at the SLF, that's what we've been pushing for.
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:21.199
Last comment from the panelists.
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:34.000
Yeah, just quickly um I'd put in a word for the soil here again, because uh when we talk about biodiversity and encouraging nature, often the soil gets forgotten, and in fact, at least half of the nature is under our feet.
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:39.519
And looking after soil, you can massively increase biodiversity just by doing that.
00:38:39.679 --> 00:38:44.559
And and then you will find that plants will grow more easily as well, so that's the bonus as well.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:45.599
Thank you.
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:47.760
Alan, any any closing comments for this subject?
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:52.000
It's just trying to get local authorities in particular to do joined up thinking.
00:38:52.159 --> 00:39:02.559
And so often, in terms of economy, the first thing to go are public parks and open spaces because they're concentrating on lawn order, education, uh, health.
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:08.719
Little joining up, thinking, well, public spaces affect all those things.
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:13.519
It's a place of let off steam, mental health, you know, fresh air, getting out there.
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:23.679
Lawn order calms people down, and yet they take away the one thing which is contributing most to people's well-being, mental and physical, because they think it's the easiest thing to go.
00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:24.960
And that's really sad.
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:30.960
And it's just making, it's keeping on, keeping on nagging, making a noise as individuals.
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:35.119
Um, and you know, remembering that line of Piniella Pi Keith, you know, in the good life.
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:36.639
Who do you think you are, madam?
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:39.360
I am the silent majority I am.
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:42.159
You know, we do need to keep going on about it.
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:49.840
But as individuals with our gardens, I can just hang on to that for me because for a second, because I'm just going to um my nose isn't running.
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:50.880
I just want to get out.
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:52.079
Me ankey.
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.559
Um because it's clean, it's all right.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:59.920
Because that space is all a car needs to park in a front garden.
00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:03.440
That's the space occupied by four parked tyres.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:05.199
One, two, three, four.
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:10.639
A quarter of an ankey is a tyre, and yet the entire thing is paved or gravelled over.
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:12.400
No, that's all you need to stand it on.
00:40:12.639 --> 00:40:14.239
Do some low planting underneath it.
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:19.039
Better for water runoff, it absorbs it, better for butterflies, bees, birds, insects.
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:23.840
It's just getting people to connect and to think of consequences.
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.119
And we're not very good at that.
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.639
Certainly, we have successive governments who are not good at it.
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:31.920
But goodness me, I don't start me on rant number two.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:32.880
Thank you.
00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:34.960
Thank you, panelists.
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:41.119
Okay, we're going to a gentleman at the back for our next question.
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:41.920
Cheers.
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:42.480
Yeah.
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:50.079
So I think sometimes the gardening's got a bit hijacked by worthiness and wildlife and climate change.
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:57.280
But and that's great, not against that, but I think it's also about celebration and magic and artistry.
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:04.719
So I would I was just going to ask you, maybe each of you could bring us if you took us back to your garden this afternoon.
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:15.519
Can you share one triumph uh celebratory plant, maybe, or part of your garden that you you would love to boast about if we let you boast right now?
00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:17.920
Great question, thank you.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:19.920
Alan, let's go straight to you.
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:20.559
Me?
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.440
Well, I'm just leaving the one I've made lovely and gone to another one.
00:41:25.840 --> 00:41:27.840
I heard you had a Fotinia red robin in your front.
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:28.880
Oh, yeah.
00:41:28.960 --> 00:41:30.000
Now here's the thing.
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.559
Well, yes, you see photinia hands up, honest.
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:40.880
Who has got a photinia red robin or a hedge of don't pretend you haven't.
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:41.760
Anybody out there?
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:44.800
A hedge of fotinia red robin or a single red robin?
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:46.480
Hands out the room.
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:46.960
Right.
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:50.159
Now, hands down, now hands up if you like it.
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.840
You're the most honest people in this room.
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:59.039
Now, in it, it's got a bit of a reputation in horticulture for being common.
00:41:59.920 --> 00:42:06.719
And in this new garden, in the front drive, there is one, and it's a specimen that big, and it's very healthy.
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:07.679
Damn it.
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:08.880
It's very good for bees.
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:11.199
No, it hasn't got anything on it.
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:12.239
No, it's good for bees.
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:18.960
It's got thank you very much, and I'm glad about uh but at the other end of the drive, there is a massive Peerrisse forest flame.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.199
Such a classy plant with red leaves.
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:25.840
There's no difference between the two.
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:30.800
They both have red leaves, and yet we're we like one because it's classy and the other one's horrible.
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:31.599
Uh no, sir.
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.760
I was teasing, I said, I'm staying the axe at the moment and telling myself there's nothing wrong with it, and it's good for bees.
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:38.719
I've got an excuse now.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:41.199
Um triumphs.
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:56.000
The old garden, which I'm just leaving, I am thrilled and delighted to leave behind what was, as well as the garden, two acres of the neighbouring farmer's field, which until I bought it at enormous expense about 15 years ago, was not organic.
00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:01.679
It was growing arable crops, it was either oil seed rape or barley or whatever, and it's a big L.
00:43:03.039 --> 00:43:05.440
And 15 years ago I said, Can I buy that?
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:06.079
That's fine.
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:07.039
Oh gosh.
00:43:07.199 --> 00:43:13.440
And I planted a country hedge, a mixed hedge around it, hawthorn, blackthorn, dog roses, spindle tree.
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:15.599
The hedge is now 10 feet tall.
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:19.920
And I sowed this meadow, I just got them to harrow the land.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:24.639
They say, take off the topsoil for a wildflower meadow.
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:27.760
If you'll pardon the horticultural expression, bugger that.
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:30.159
Two acres worth of topsoil, take it.
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:31.599
No, it's sacred soil.
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:32.239
I left it.
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:39.519
I got them to harrow it, and I sowed by hand a chalk downland mixture from Emmorsgate called the Cricklade mix.
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:41.440
And I sewed it by hand.
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.119
It took quite a while.
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:46.559
And on the top, in autumn, that's the best time to sow wildflowers.
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:50.000
They get vernalized, they get frozen thawed frozen, and then they germinate in spring.
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:56.000
Fifteen years on, we start in March with a rash of cowslips.
00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:59.840
It follows on then through the vetches, through the scaling.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.840
Through the napweed to marjoram in autumn, and I now have, particularly in May and June, orchids.
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:10.079
I've had bee orchids in there, early purples, purple spotted.
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:22.000
And my great belief in life is that however small your patch of ground, if you leave it in better heart than when you came, which is what you're talking about, you've paid rent for your time on earth.
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:27.519
Now I'm moving out of that, but I'm leaving it there and open to goodness that nobody sells it to build houses on.
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:37.280
But I've given it 15 years and I've changed the piece of ground which was quite sterile and only grew arable crops, into this wonderful mixture.
00:44:37.519 --> 00:44:38.880
Tony's been and seen it.
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:48.719
It is the most I just moan rides through it, and that's all I do, and then we cut it once a year in September where most of the seeds have fallen, but before it's too wet and gets churned up.
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:53.199
Take it off, that's key, take off the hay, and that's all we do with it.
00:44:53.280 --> 00:45:00.320
And it has been a delight, and I so agree with you that we are allowed to grow things which give us pleasure.
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:09.280
And if they have that double-edged sword of also encouraging a healthy environment, wildlife, whatever, around it, then it's really worthwhile.
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:16.079
So that would be my bit, would be the bit that's wild, uh, rather than all the stuff I have to prune consequently constantly.
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:18.400
And Matt, sorry, we're gonna go to you next.
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.280
But is it a house plant, is it variegated, or is it a conifer?
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:23.199
None of the above, actually.
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:23.519
Okay.
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:24.320
None of the above.
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:25.440
Are you surprised?
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:27.280
Uh it's a plastic plant.
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:27.760
No.
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:34.159
So we talk loads about right plant, right place, resilient plants, all that.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:39.840
In my own garden, that all goes out the window because you get a kick, I think, as a gardener, with having a bit of a challenge.
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:44.880
You always want to grow something that probably doesn't really want to grow in your garden, so you press on anyway.
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:52.000
And one of my favourite plants is the national flower of Chile, and it's Lapageria, the Chilean bellflower.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:56.079
It's a complete swine to please, and I've killed so many of them.
00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:57.119
Sorry?
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:58.000
Mealybugs.
00:45:58.239 --> 00:45:58.719
It gets everything.
00:45:59.119 --> 00:46:02.079
It gets everything, you name it, and Lapageria gets it.
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:04.079
So I don't know how this thing isn't extinct.
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:09.119
But anyway, I've got one really happy now in my London garden, growing through in a Kuba.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:11.840
It flowers really heavily in the autumn through the winter.
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.719
There's a couple of out-of-season flowers on it at the moment.
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:18.719
Big, waxy, uh red, pinky flowers.
00:46:18.800 --> 00:46:19.920
It's absolutely stunning.
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:22.079
Just hands up, who knows it?
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:23.440
A few people.
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:24.320
Oh, not enough.
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:26.559
So look it up, the National Flower of Chile.
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:30.079
And if you've got lots of time and money to waste, try one.
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:33.679
I think mine's number eight and it's flourishing.
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:34.000
But yeah.
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:36.800
But it's only hardy outside in London where you've got city heat.
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.159
It won't, it's not hardy, is it?
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:40.559
It doesn't want to go below about minus five.
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:44.719
So I mean, if you're on the if it just needs so many requirements.
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:46.159
But it's very good fun.
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:48.320
And if you can flower it, send me a picture.
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:54.800
Matt Matt, I I have one growing behind my shed, and I wee on it every uh fortnight.
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:56.480
And it's doing really well.
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:00.880
Picking down the back of the shed every day.
00:47:01.199 --> 00:47:02.639
Must smell lovely around there.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.280
What is this tree, Tony?
00:47:08.079 --> 00:47:17.199
Oh well, you know, my so my garden uh is in Suburbia, Twickenham, uh, average uh semi-detached size garden, uh, and it's full of trees.
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:22.719
All my favourite trees, and all everything I plant uh has to have a meaning.
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:31.440
So I've either stolen it from somewhere or I bought it from a fair like today or uh from Chelsea Physic Garden from Kew.
00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:36.719
Um and one of my favorites is uh it's um is it Pseudopanx?
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:39.119
Um Chainsaw, it's called.
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:39.920
Love it.
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:42.480
It's so sharp, lives up to its name.
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:54.000
But I I think my uh claim what I'm really proud of is I'm a I'm classed as a woody, uh, and I trample herbaceous to get to trees, and that's what I'm renowned for.
00:47:54.159 --> 00:48:10.320
But I've been gardening since I retired in the last five years, I've been gardening, and and I've been planting lots of herbaceous, playing around with uh epimediums, birginias, um, and and alliums, and and uh it it just looks wonderful now.
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:16.000
And uh I even planted Salvia Hotlips uh from Hampton Court, flower show.
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:40.960
So I I yeah experimenting with herbaceous now, but um the main part is the the the tree framework, and I my son flew a drone over the other day and did a film, and it's it's quite an amazing block, it's like a Chelsea flower show garden that's been just positioned into into Twickenham, and next doors is a lawn, next doors is a lawn, and then my paradise in the middle.
00:48:41.039 --> 00:48:43.440
So, you know, a real hot spot for biodiversity.
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.800
I've got a wren nest in, a robin nesting, blue tit nesting.
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.840
The the robins hatched yesterday, so that was a highlight of the family.
00:48:52.239 --> 00:49:00.400
So, yeah, um it's just getting that green oasis that I love going out to sit on my gaze brevel bench and having a coffee.
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:01.440
Lovely, right?
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:05.280
We'll come to you, Charles and Marianne, then we're gonna shoot for one last question.
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:06.719
Marianne, over to you.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:12.000
Um, so mine can also be seen from Google Earth, I was told recently.
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:35.920
So in my garden I had a large lawn, and uh together with Sasha, who is a fantastic guy, very DIY who works with me, we about five years ago, we took the lawn mower to the middle of the lawn and we put a bamboo stick sticking out of the side of it, and we started in the middle of the lawn and we mowed a circle and a circle and a circle just before lockdown.
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:40.800
And I now have a beautiful mown labyrinth of wildflower.
00:49:41.039 --> 00:49:46.400
And the reason it's so important is it's the edges of things, the liminal things where magic happens.
00:49:46.559 --> 00:49:53.519
So by having low-cut grass and this high wildflower in lots of different spaces, you get so many creatures there.
00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:59.599
Um just a spider alert, anybody who's afraid of spiders, we now have the amazing wasp spider, which I first saw at NEP.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:04.400
And by taking Dixter screwing, so I'm very close to Dixter, we now have orchids.
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:12.239
And I have large um hornbeam sentinels to act as standing stones, and it's a real energy point, this this labyrinth.
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:14.079
And people come and stand in the middle.
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:19.440
Um, my team use it as a meditation spiral, my dog uses it as a racetrack.
00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:26.800
But if you stand in the middle, you can really feel an energy lift in the centre, and so it's a really key point to the garden.
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:33.519
And because it's wildflower, of course, it's been scientifically proven, as though we needed the scientists to tell us that it makes me happy every day.
00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:34.880
Thank you, Marianne.
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:35.679
And Charles?
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:39.039
Yeah, I'd put in a word for the humble lettuce.
00:50:40.559 --> 00:50:50.159
Because I find in vegetable gardening, there's pretty much every month of the year there's a one vegetable that really stands out, you know, like in March, it might be leeks or whatever.
00:50:50.239 --> 00:50:57.840
But at the moment, the lettuce are just looking so amazing, and they have a kind of energy that draws you in and beautiful colours, you can plant different ones together.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:08.159
So I like to make a kind of mosaic pattern in my lettuce beds, and we keep picking the same plants successively every week for up to 10 or 12 weeks, so they're there for quite a long time, actually.
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:14.000
And it really adds something to a garden to have uh productive plants that are also really beautiful.
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:15.760
So up the lettuce.
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:19.679
I love the fact that we all get so excited about different things.
00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:22.239
I heard a very, very sad story a couple of days ago.
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:28.320
There's a family, and they said that mum's not very well, um, and the dog's being treated for depression.
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.239
Oh lord, is the dogs being treated for depression?
00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:33.519
We are in a battery, aren't we?
00:51:33.599 --> 00:51:34.880
They said, No, it's quite interesting, really.
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:38.559
We discovered that the dog has the same drug for depression as mum has.
00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:39.519
Oh dear.
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:42.239
So I think we need to get them a garden, I think that's the answer.
00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:43.599
Lovely, thank you.
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:50.559
Right, we have one more question, and just remember we've got this book for the best stimulating question for the panelists.
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:51.920
So have a little think.
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:54.239
Please put your hands up.
00:51:55.760 --> 00:51:56.639
Any other questions?
00:51:56.800 --> 00:51:58.639
Come on, throw throw your hands up.
00:51:59.440 --> 00:52:00.559
Pete free can't be.
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:02.239
Oh, right, Pete Free, right.
00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:03.360
Come on, lots of hands, anybody?
00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:05.519
Right.
00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:16.639
I look at this panel and you seem to represent the recent paradigm shift in the approach to gardening and wildlife.
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:27.519
And I wondered if you look into the future, what do you think the next significant paradigm shift is going to be in our approach to gardening or imagine it might be?
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:36.480
I I can I chime in because I think we're understanding much more about the joy and pleasure and well-being that we can get from gardening.
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:45.679
And I think the scale's gone a little bit far for me, demonizing people who have got fine-cut loans, or still like to do some bedding plants, or still like a hanging basket.
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:55.519
And I think we just need to slide the dial back a little bit and say if that brings you joy and you enjoy going out and edging your lawn and moving around your bedding plants, that's okay.
00:52:55.760 --> 00:52:59.119
And you should be allowed to do that and not be made to feel bad for it.
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:03.760
So I think we just need to dial it back a little bit and let people just rejoice.
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:08.719
And if that's what they find beautiful and that brings them pleasure, let it be.
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:10.559
That's okay, I think.
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:17.360
Yeah, I I would say bringing the human, the gardener, back into the centre, rather along those lines.
00:53:17.519 --> 00:53:19.519
Um, we're really important as well.
00:53:19.679 --> 00:53:23.440
And maybe we've been made to feel a bit guilty of, you know, rewilding.
00:53:23.679 --> 00:53:25.199
There's not much mention of people in that.
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.719
It's just letting nature do everything, which is fine as far as it goes.
00:53:28.880 --> 00:53:33.760
But it's we're ultimately the people who who are kind of holding the strings, you could say.
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:39.039
And and I I loved making, say, a vegetable garden really beautiful.
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:43.679
Uh that's not often mentioned, you know, vegetables are beautiful plants, and you can have real fun.
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:45.760
Uh every month it's different.
00:53:46.000 --> 00:54:00.320
So I think bringing people into it, and then also with food growing, I think that will grow even more because there's increasing awareness about how you can get so much great health from growing your own plants and eating them.
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:05.519
There is so much talk nowadays about mental health.
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:09.199
We hear the phrase several times during the course of a day.
00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:15.840
The greatest possible antidote to mental health is resilience.
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:19.119
And you think what our parents and grandparents went through during the war.
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:24.880
My wife's mother in the Blitz, sitting down in a cellar in London, she said, All I can remember is laughing.
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.679
Because they found a way of getting through it.
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.199
Everybody finds their own way.
00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:40.480
There are so many different temptations nowadays that mental health is I don't know whether there is more of it, uh ill mental ill health, uh, or whether we just talk about it more.
00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:53.760
But I remember talking hearing of a meeting where this was all being talked about, and and one of the members at the meeting slammed her hand on the table, and she was a psychiatrist, and she said, Can we start talking about resilience rather than mental health?
00:54:53.920 --> 00:55:02.159
And we are at the forefront of offering people resilience by virtue of connecting with things that grow and growing them.
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:04.719
You know how you feel when you're out in the garden.
00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:05.920
It does us all good.
00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:08.719
Yes, there are frustrations, growing lapegyrias.
00:55:08.880 --> 00:55:10.719
You know, it can't be good for your mental health, can it?
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:12.239
Well, it's made me very ill.
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:13.039
Yes.
00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:15.199
That much is evident.
00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:17.599
Knowing well.
00:55:17.840 --> 00:55:24.079
Um build on that and spread the word that this is the way forward.
00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:27.119
The solution is lying in front of us.
00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:31.679
Get out there, be in it, interfere, grow.
00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:40.320
We are in the beauty business, we are in the good health business by virtue of just growing a plant and being among it when it grows.
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:52.000
And that, I hope, will be the way forward is letting the scales fall away from people's eyes, and it's down to all of us, to let them realize what they could get out of a garden instead of worrying about it.
00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:53.280
Get out and be in it.
00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:54.239
Fantastic.
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:55.360
Thank you.
00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:21.280
And what we're entitled to, that you know, everybody, everybody should um have access to green space for their resilience.
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:25.199
And I'm gonna stop saying mental well-being now and say resilience, Alan.
00:56:25.599 --> 00:56:36.159
And watch watch out for this new strategy that's coming in that's been adopted on the continent in Belgium, Holland, Scandinavia, uh, Canada, USA.
00:56:36.639 --> 00:56:39.440
It's the 33300 rule.
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:48.159
Uh and we're just sort of bringing it into this country, and hopefully it will bite, and it will also help with gardens and and new builds.
00:56:48.559 --> 00:56:53.760
So three, everybody should be able to see three trees from their house.
00:56:54.400 --> 00:57:07.360
30, everybody should have 30% uh canopy cover, and three hundred, everybody should be within three hundred metres of a green space, and that will be good for resilience.
00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:17.280
And I think we're gonna see more and more of that retrosp retrofitted to our existing landscape, but also in new builds.
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:18.480
I think Tony.
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:29.199
Um I'm very excited by what I see as a growing consciousness in people to understand what plants really are telling us.
00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:42.480
I don't know if anybody has heard of uh well, we've had Suzanne Simard, we have Monica Galliano, we there's a new study in Tenev University just come out which has shown that plants speak to bees and bees speak to plants.
00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.360
And if we listen, plants can speak to us.
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:55.440
And it I don't know if any of you have ever used dowsing rots, but if you go and sing to a tree and measure its aura, if you sing to a tree, the aura grows bigger.
00:57:55.519 --> 00:58:00.719
Just in the way that if you give love to somebody, you can see them blossoming and thriving.
00:58:00.960 --> 00:58:06.239
So our attention to the tree is just as important as what we do in the garden.
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:09.119
When we breathe out, the tree breathes in.
00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:17.840
And that's what I'm seeing, and that's what I'm really excited about in the future is more and more people, there's more and more papers of people studying this kind of thing in the scientific world.
00:58:18.079 --> 00:58:20.880
The scientists are catching up with us gardeners.
00:58:21.039 --> 00:58:24.880
We always knew, we always knew, and I think that's really coming to the fore.
00:58:33.519 --> 00:58:36.719
And Matt, do you want to finish off with that last question?
00:58:37.199 --> 00:58:37.679
Did you start?
00:58:38.079 --> 00:58:38.719
Oh, did you start?
00:58:38.800 --> 00:58:39.039
Sorry.
00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:43.840
Right, so now I a bit like Desert Island Discs, I want to ask the panelists a question.
00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:49.039
Um and I think let's go with what gardening habit should we be abandoning?
00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:54.480
You know, what should we be getting rid of and actually, you know, just abandoning completely?
00:58:55.280 --> 00:58:57.280
Reading the to-do lists in magazines.
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:07.039
Um I quite l like leaving leaves because it's the first step for improving soil health.
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:12.960
So and if you walked through Hyde Park last autumn, you would have seen leaves blowing everywhere and probably thought the staff are on strike.
00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:18.639
But the soil health isn't good enough, so we are doing a lot of leaving leaves around, not being too tidy.
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:19.679
Thank you.
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:22.400
Stop using pesticides.
00:59:23.039 --> 00:59:24.880
Anything inorganic, don't do it.
00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:26.719
If it worked, you'd only have to do it once.
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:28.079
Slob pellets.
00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:29.519
Why do we have to use it?
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:30.320
Don't do it.
00:59:30.559 --> 00:59:37.280
Mix up going back to what we said earlier, mix up your crops, mix up everything, and then it's it's a good mixture, it all helps one another.
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:44.320
I know it's irritating when you see green flower and your roses, but the blue tits will take them off if there's enough there to for them to get out there.
00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:47.599
I haven't used pesticides now for nearly 40 years.
00:59:47.760 --> 00:59:48.960
Uh or herbicides.
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.079
And and I have a garden which looks cultivated.
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:54.320
The natural cycle builds up.
00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:58.079
You've got to give it a few years to do it, but don't be paranoid about it.
00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:04.880
Just cultivate your soil well, as Charles says, give them everything they need and they will survive on their own.
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:05.679
Agreed.
01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:10.000
Yeah, to that actually I'd really agree, and I'd add synthetic fertilizers.
01:00:10.079 --> 01:00:23.599
There's quite a lot of research coming out now pointing a finger at uh nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus made in a factory, and how using them on plants can actually depress soil life because the microbes are suddenly redundant.
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:26.159
Uh they're still there, but most of them go dormant.
01:00:26.239 --> 01:00:32.719
And so you're you're getting yourself hooked onto a treadmill of needing to use fertilizers again and again as you go forward.
01:00:32.880 --> 01:00:34.400
Uh, we don't hear enough about that.
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:36.559
And so that I'm just put a little word in for that one.
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:43.760
And you know, feed feed your soil, not your plants, and and the soil then takes care of plants with all these beautiful microbes and everything.
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:46.719
Stop weing behind the shed.
01:00:48.320 --> 01:00:50.400
Unless you want a nice lapygeria.
01:00:50.880 --> 01:01:00.719
Um I'm I'm basically going to agree with the rest of the panel, and one of the things I like this um clip and and leave, so chop them, chop and drop.
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:01.440
That's what it's called.
01:01:01.519 --> 01:01:05.039
So that's what I do to my epimediums in the garden and alliums.
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:18.559
So I leave it there, and uh and I also um uh in autumn I go down the uh the road collecting all the leaves and bringing them back, composting them, and actually putting them in my front garden as a mulch raw.
01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:23.039
I'm not frightened of mulching raw, and the hedgehogs uh absolutely love it.
01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:25.599
Can I just extend that to ground elder as well?
01:01:25.679 --> 01:01:30.320
If you chop and drop with ground elder, it's the the duty of ground elder is to bring the calcium up.
01:01:30.400 --> 01:01:36.320
So if you leave the leaves, then it will it will tell the ground elder it's no longer needed because it's got the calcium there.
01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:39.119
It's a brilliant way of getting rid of ground elder if you have too much.
01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:40.079
Great.
01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:44.079
Wow, I think we could keep going every day for school day.
01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:46.480
No, it totally is.
01:01:46.639 --> 01:01:55.760
Um Right, before we finish up, I think it's really important that we give this this giveaway to one of the most stimulating questions in the room.
01:01:55.920 --> 01:01:57.280
Right then, panelists.
01:01:58.400 --> 01:01:59.280
Let's have a moment.
01:02:03.920 --> 01:02:04.960
Yeah, I thought that was a good one.
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:08.639
Or was that right?
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:22.400
It's a tough one.
01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:23.519
It is a tough one.
01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:28.719
But there was one that really got the uh the audience reflecting on their gardens at home.
01:02:28.880 --> 01:02:34.559
It was the chap with the stripy top asking, what was your uh what is it in your garden that you loved the most?
01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:44.480
I mean, what fun have we had?
01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:46.559
I mean, that hour has absolutely just flown past.
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:50.320
Um I just think we need to put our hands together for our fantastic panelists.
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:51.119
Please give it up.
01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:59.519
Charles Dowden, Alan Tittsman, Matthew Poffitt, Tony Garkin, and Marianne Bartwall.
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:17.360
And of course, a big thank you to all of you coming to the Story of Garden today and coming to the Great Garden Show.
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:20.559
You know, we're starting to build up to this big crescendo, which is today.
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:22.719
So please make your way around the gardens.
01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:31.360
We've got the laburnum and flower of the four seasons, we've got the bustling plant show as well on hand, uh, and various tours going on this afternoon.
01:03:31.440 --> 01:03:32.559
So go and explore.
01:03:32.719 --> 01:03:34.559
It's not raining, have fun.
01:03:34.880 --> 01:03:36.480
But um, thank you so much for coming.
01:03:36.559 --> 01:03:39.920
And just to note thank you to Harry and Alyssa and all these amazing.
01:03:48.239 --> 01:03:49.280
Thank you, everybody.
01:03:49.920 --> 01:03:54.079
Story of Garden is being closed for half an hour until they can rearrange the space.
01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:59.840
But thank you again, and we'll see you again throughout the garden, but also importantly at our next great garden show.
01:04:00.000 --> 01:04:00.800
Thank you.
01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:14.400
Thank you for listening.
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:20.079
Subscribe and tune in for more episodes from the estate every month.
01:04:20.320 --> 01:04:21.760
See you next time.