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Welcome to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.
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I'm your host, Mari Reisberg.
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Over the past several years, I've combined my degrees in acting and somatic psychology to share my sustaining creativity techniques with performers.
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And now I've decided to share with a bigger audience that includes you.
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I believe we are all creative, and this podcast is all about that.
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I'll be interviewing people from all backgrounds, ages, and creativity experiences to share just how creative we all are.
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Today I'll be chatting with John Elbing, storybuilder, brand consultant, and author.
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Please enjoy John Elving.
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Welcome to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.
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Today I'm chatting with John Elving, storybuilder, brand consultant, and author.
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Welcome to the podcast.
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Hi, Mari.
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Happy to be here.
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The other side of the world.
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I know you're out there in Colorado and I'm in Geneva, Switzerland.
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And so I love that.
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I love that too.
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I love that we get to talk about creativity across the globe and share all of the exciting experiences of creatives in Switzerland to other parts of the globe and world.
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So I'm thrilled to have you join me today.
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When, you know, this idea of storybuilding or brand telling or consulting, why don't you share a little bit more about how you got into that, what it is, and how it shows up in the creative side of your life.
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So I've been zigzagging, you know, I was a software developer, I did an MBA in finance, I did startups, I did work in digital marketing, but I've been independent for like 10 years now with a lot of different design thinking and all these methods and canvases and post-its and things.
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And when I stumbled on storytelling, it was way more than storytelling.
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But then I realized that it forced the people I work with to ask the right questions.
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Who am I talking to?
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What's important?
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And to go through these questions about the match between your customer story and your story and all that forces you to be clear.
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It aligns teams on a shared mission, it has this kind of you know, adds focus, you know, especially with I work with companies, but also with startups.
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And startups are, you know, sometimes are sort of like, hey, we have this cool new thing, we're not quite sure for who.
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And and you know, the exercise of making the right story was actually brings in a lot more.
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Uh, you know, if I have to link it to creativity, I always found that creativity works when you have constraints.
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If you ask a kid to say, draw something, they'll say, Oh, I don't know what.
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And you ask them to say, you know, draw, you know, a purple animal, they'll say, Oh, wow, and then they'll have all these ideas.
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And so by fitting in these formats, you know, it constrains your creativity, but then it actually comes out with something uh that uh that is pretty pretty powerful.
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I agree.
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Yeah, the giving some boundary or structure.
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Yeah, I don't feel like I've invented something crazy.
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I mean, they do have my method called story building, and it's a book and all that, but somehow part of it is the process.
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You go through.
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I mean, usually people say, I know what I'm doing, what do you do?
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And they just say, I do this.
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But then when you go through and you say, Oh yeah, I mean, and you can almost hear the clicks in people's minds.
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You know, my my whole my whole shtick is this idea that tell your customer's story, tell your story from their standpoint, the company's standpoint, it's all about you know their standpoint, and and this way of stepping away and looking at yourself from the outside and then and and telling the story, how people can engage with that instead of you know from the inside out to sort of say, Hey, I do this, and you know, it's up to you to figure out if that's if there's a reason to connect, if that's for you.
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It's more like I see you, and this is how you know we could have a relationship.
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Yeah.
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I I like that kind of shift in perspective of making the customer really feel seen in their journey to bring them into the organization or the product or whatever it is that you're telling the story about.
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Well, you you may have shared a little bit of this when we were just talking, but I'm curious when you think of creativity, what does it mean to you to be creative?
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So um, you know, I've uh I love exploring and learning new things.
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And that's been a blessing.
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I would say, you know, 80% blessing, 20% curse in the sense of, you know, I'm zigzagged when I was bored with a job, I would quit and change and try something else.
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I went back to school at 40, and then I've been doing trainings and discovering new things and then trying to build, and I'm building with AI and understanding and things like that.
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And most of that doesn't translate into extra money, you know.
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So you know, so I do all these things, you know, and I'm you know, I'm uh I'm I'm very happy, but I sort of feel, you know, when I was working in a bank doing the first, you know, e-banking websites back at the turn of the century kind of thing, well, I was probably you know earning three times as much as today, but uh now I'm 10 times happier, so it all balances out.
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So, but so creativity, you know, part of it is kind of learning through doing this idea to say the point isn't to understand like AI, it's to sort of play with what you can do with that and come up with things.
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I find one thing that's been really interesting is the rapid feedback.
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You know, I want to I wanted to come up with a course, say.
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And so I would sit down and I would go through, and there was my thing.
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But with AI, you can sort of speed that up and say, okay, what would that look like?
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And then think, ooh, but there's something else that could be interesting.
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How about if we added this and then you see it, and then you think, oh yeah, but how about this?
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And then you say, but couldn't instead of giving them the theory, could we give them an exercise that they would learn it through doing?
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And then look, and and then at the end, you have something.
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I mean, it's based on, you know, so I'm saying teaching my model.
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I mean, it I I have the information that the AI isn't inventing, but that rapid exchange makes you, you know, opens up this creativity of the ways of doing it, trying, you know, often you say, okay, well, it's good enough, and I'm not gonna spend another week getting it better, but when you can do that fast, uh, I thought, fine, that's very uh that's fun.
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And then it's uh, but it's actually, you know, produces some, you know, levels up what you're trying to do and comes helps you come up with new ideas and and I love that.
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I love the the creativity is you know, learning through doing because I I feel like I experience learning through that as well.
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I more hands-on experience really helps me kind of bridge the gap between my mind and my body, and that helps when when we're active in it, and so I can appreciate those pieces when you are building a story or working with organizations or companies or clients, what is the process of you know getting a story, creating a story together or aligning a story?
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What is that journey that you go on?
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So so there are two sides.
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One, I have a theory that of how what happens in our brain when we encounter a brand.
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Okay.
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And then the idea is to say, let's build a story in the sequence of the natural sequence of what you're going through.
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Okay.
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So the idea is when we first encounter a brand, we have this first thing saying, is that for me?
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Do I recognize myself in the offer, in the company, in whatever it is?
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And I call that first stage recognition recognition.
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And if if I land on a website that says, hey, here's what we do, you know, I'm saying I'm looking for a CRM because I'm an independent consultant and I want to build my business for customer relationship management, and I land on one, and and one, you know, says, We're the best for teams.
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And I think I'm not a team, they're gone.
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And you know, their product might have been perfect for me, but and then I land on another one and says, We specialize in you know, solopreneurs, independent consultants, you know, then we, you know, and I think, oh, they love me, they see me, they, you know, and I feel that I'm I've already they've already gained a little bit of trust because they've concentrated on people like me.
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If I was an accountant, say, and I wanted to employ one more accounting firm, you know, pick a niche.
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I know I'm accountants for medical professionals or for gardeners or something.
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So if I'm not a gardener, I mean, I think I'm I'm not gonna stop.
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But if I'm a gardener, I'm gonna think, oh wow, I mean, out of the hundred, you know, uh accountants out there, this one you know likes people like me.
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You know, that that's that's really powerful.
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When it's for everybody, you know, it's for nobody.
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So so and I think a lot of companies skip that.
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They sort of they're I mean, of course, you're in your day-by-day thing, you're you know, you're you see your company from the inside, and to you know, to sort of so the if you tell their story and they feel seen, that's a you know, first of all, it's it's the right people that keep reading, and the wrong people stop, so you have a better set of you know, the better kind of thing.
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And that, you know, and then they'll say, okay, well, tell me more, instead of you know, skimming through and you sort of have to force it down their throats.
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It's uh because you know, they think, oh, I mean, that's for me.
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If I landed on a website saying we specialize in services for independent consultants with a white beard that live in Switzerland and have, well, no, the kind of speard, but you know, I'll think, Oh, you know, that's for me.
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I don't know what they offer yet, but you know, and so and then the second one is perception, which is the idea you have to really understand what's going on, and it's about what category people like to put you in a category.
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Uh do I trust them?
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You know, is it simple?
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Do I really understand?
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You know, a lot of companies want to be clever, and clever probably doesn't help.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so, and then I'm really convinced.
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I have this CRM and I think, great, finally, I'm going to jump the thing and I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna be successful.
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But then you have to have to buy it and then I have to install it, I have to learn to use it, and I have to use the old thing, and I have to go find the information in my emails and my Excel spread.
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Okay, I'm gonna do this, but I'll come back next week.
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And then I don't.
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Ah, right.
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And so if you can accompany people in that third phase, which I call projection, is sort of what it's it gonna be like?
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Is it gonna be easy?
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Can I migrate from my, you know, you go on to Apple Music and they'll say with one click, you can get all your podcast, your playlist from Spotify, say, you know, because you know, people say, Oh, damn, I mean, how can I shift?
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You know, why are you loyal to your hairdresser?
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Because if you switched, you'd have to explain the thing, you got it just right, finally.
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I mean, that's too much work.
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Yeah, and then it's also about I solve a lot of problems, but I can't say all that.
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So I say, you know, you're in this situation, but at the end you can sort of say, hey, and you'll stop worrying about this, and you'll do and you either you'll solve this problem, and then close your eyes and imagine how your life will be better.
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You'll stop wasting time on this, or you'll be this, or you're you know, whatever it is.
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And so if you get people to close all those objections, worries, doubts, then almost pre-live this thing that you're gonna offer.
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I mean, they're already a few more steps into that engagement.
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It's sort of instead of sort of saying, Oh, okay, okay, now I have to have a demo, I mean, and they're not, but they're worried.
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Yeah, they're sort of say, Wow, yeah, okay, let's let's let's do that demo.
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And so if you write a story where they, you know, they they really recognize themselves, it can be identity, it can be their their their aspiration, it can be their challenges, and then they they it clicks on what they do, what you know, how they how you position, and then they can imagine that they're you know, this the life would be.
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I mean, if you're selling milk at the corner store, I mean you don't need that kind of story.
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There are a lot of things where where where you and so then you know to to to build that story, I have canvases, one canvas for the customer where it's about their aspirations, their challenge, their trigger moments, their things, all these, you know, but it's just going through all these questions the same for your company.
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And then it's really a framework where I have those three steps recognition, perception, projection, and then you sort of pick what's really important.
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What is the important aspiration?
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What is the important child?
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What is the best story I can put in that order?
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And that gives you kind of a story structure.
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And that's why I call it story building.
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If you type storytelling into Google or into YouTube, there's a gazillion tips and tricks where you start with a hook and you stand on one leg and you do this, and you like you know, kind of stuff.
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Right.
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But it presupposes that you have the right story to tell.
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So, what I want to do is to help you build the right story as a kind of structure.
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And then you can make a website, you can make a pitch deck, you can stand on stage, you can do an ad, whatever it is, but you've built this core foundational story that brings everyone together.
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The fact that you build the story together as a team is really powerful.
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Um, you know, in some bigger companies, they have marketing and sales that are sort of fighting because it's always the other group's fault if something doesn't work out.
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Uh-huh.
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So, but if they build the story together, that story that comes through the marketing really connects with the story that the salesperson tells.
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And and, you know, they're not, you know, they it makes them work together instead of sort of a little bit against each other.
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That makes sense.
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Well, thank you for breaking all of that down and just sharing sharing the three phases and all of those pieces.
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I I think it just listening to you talk really helped me kind of go on that mental journey with you, of it made a lot of sense.
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I mean, I'm sure for a podcast, you know, if you say, hey, this is a podcast for everybody in the world kind of thing, you know.
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But if you say, you know, hey, you're really interested in this, or you're struggling with that, or you're at this point, or you know, you're you know, whatever it is, you're a you know, you and people can say, Oh, that's me.
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Yeah, then they'll say, Oh, I want to go, let's let's go try listen to that.
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Right, exactly.
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Well, I I love all of those pieces.
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And just the there's a lot of nuance in it, in building that story and knowing your brand identity or who you are as an individual to tell that story or to oh, sometimes it can take you know quite a while.
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Yes, because then you can test it with customers and come back and change the vocabulary.
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I mean, until you get something where you really feel that you're comfortable.
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Yeah.
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Well, working with companies and organizations and helping inspire their story and build that with them, where do you find inspiration in your life?
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A big part of it, I think, is empathy.
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In the sense of, you know, when when uh when a founder sort of tells me this messy story of what they do, what they've done, and all this kind of thing, I'm sort of taking that in as their customer.
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And I can come back and say, so what you're saying is that you can do, you know, you can do this for me, and this is why my life will be, and you know, I get to turn it from their point of view, and I've sort of become a almost automatic.
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Uh, you know, I've done that so much, even before working with it, you know, I was sort of afraid of conflict when I was young, when I was young.
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And so I sort of rehearsed what I wanted to say and imagining how the other person would feel, and that became this kind of, you know, and now I'm sort of doing that for a you know, a potential client.
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And you know, I've done it with NGOs, and I mean, if you want to convince your spouse, you know, to go to the beach instead of the city, you know, well, you know, maybe the story is something similar, you know.
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Uh it's not, it's not, it's not necessarily, you know, the customer, it can be, you know, uh about just and you know, a lot of people think the off sales is kind of this dirty thing that you have to do.
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And I real feel if you're in the position where you feel like this person is going to their life is going to be better.
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I mean, it's almost your duty to get them to understand that.
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Right.
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I mean, you know, don't feel bad about it.
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I mean, I mean, of course, there's the used car salesman kind of uh type where you're trying to dump the the thing, but I think most people in their company there, I mean, it starts out where they they're serving someone and they want to help them.
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And it's more like, you know, I get you, and here's what we're doing that can, you know, make your life better.
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I mean, it it so it's less about the tricks of minus 20, or you know, the the the Halloween deal or whatever else.
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It's about hey, you know, we I get you.
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I see you.
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That's a powerful that statement is super powerful.
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I see you, I get you.
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That I think that's you know, isn't that the human condition?
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That's what we want to be seen and heard.
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I mean, have you I'm sure you go you've gone into a restaurant, a bar, or a store, and someone will say, Hey, how are you today?
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And they recognize you and say, uh, you know, and and I mean, isn't that nice?
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Um and so uh yeah, yeah, of course.
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Yeah.
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Well, what are the creative pieces that you're exploring or excited about in your life, maybe outside of work?
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So I sort of I sort of mix, you know, I'm not sure where work stops and where life is.
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You know, I'm I sort of want to continue doing this fun stuff where I get to, you know, either see some crazy entrepreneurs with, you know, crazy, you know, I'm I'm I'm coaching this startup that has a that analyzes your like a Fitbit kind of bracelet to analyze your emotions, injects the emotions into a video game, and the story of the video game changes with your emotion.
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I mean, so I have a lot of so the idea is you come up to the dragon, and normally you'd have to slay the dragon.
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Yeah, but if you're relaxed, you can walk by and you're not scared, and you know, or whatever.
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Anyways, so um so the way part of the create so I'm so I'm playing with these ideas where they have the you know, a company, you know, I I worked with the world leader of garden shears, and we created these stories, and I mean, and so working with someone to to extract this thing and make it into something, a story, I find is really uh is is really fun.
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Yeah.
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Um but you know, I you know, I I I I was able to buy my this apartment I'm in and and new, so I was able to choose, you know, the white brick wall behind it and the thing and the that each tile and the stuff, you know.
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I I mean I love just kind of imagining, and it can be you know work where I'm building tools to analyze people's online presence and things and playing, as I said, with AI.
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Um or yeah, just uh kind of a s a systems view of how things connect and so one so one thing is I started cre doing two hour calculus parties.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.960
You remember in Old movies in the 70s where people actually talk to parties.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:06.400
So Thursday between six and eight, and then it's never ends at eight.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:11.759
But you know the idea is it's it's not eating up your week, it's not eating up your weekend, you work the next day.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:20.319
So the last one I did, I invited nine people, and I said, You have to bring someone interesting that I don't know.
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.720
Oh, so they don't know each other.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.119
Yeah.
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:31.680
So we ended up being 18, and I so each yeah, to and then we had a single conversation for four hours.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.480
So I had predefined questions.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:58.000
We went around, created exchange, it created people helping others in what they were doing, and you know, you know, just with a few drinks and a few snacks, and it should have, you know, it should have lasted an hour, you know, with things, and then you know, people got involved and you know, coming up with interesting questions and making, you know, getting people to come out with what they need and how they can connect and all that.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:22:59.920
I love it.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:11.519
My goodness, that is I I I just I love that facilitation of connection and creativity and sharing and supporting.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:12.480
Yeah.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:14.079
How fun.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:16.960
And you do this every week.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.839
No, no.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:33.359
I mean, it's every every you know, quarter or something, depending on where and coming on my mind, you know, suddenly I'll do a few and then so I hurt my I yeah, I have this shoulder thing, and so now and then I have to go to a physiotherapist and I talk to my physiotherapist.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.039
So he has a side a side hustle that he's trying to build.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:46.480
So I gave him my book, and then I've been coaching him for his entrepreneurial idea, and then I go back and he does my shoulder.
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:49.839
That's great.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:51.440
It's all about connection.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.759
It is, I absolutely agree.
00:23:53.920 --> 00:24:05.599
Well, for people who are feeling not like they're not creative or they don't know how to tell the story, or do they even have a story?
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:12.319
How would you encourage them to find their story or creativity in their life?
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:28.079
So I always feel that I I I regret not doing way more than regret doing, even if it's, you know, I put so much money in a startup that wouldn't know where and all that kind of stuff and things, but you know, hey, I learned so much and tried.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:33.920
And I think, you know, especially now, like with AI popping up, don't don't read, you know, just go on.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:38.319
And at the beginning, I you know, you try something and then you think, oh wow, and then you try something else.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.640
And and and if it doesn't get anywhere, that's fine.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:50.240
You know, I've you know, I I've I've tried some things and then it went nowhere, but then you're opening up so many new possibilities.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:53.039
One will go somewhere and others won't.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:25:07.039
But if you don't, I I think people I think there's this negative this success criteria, you know, people are afraid are afraid to do something because if they fail, then that that's bad.
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:10.799
Uh even more so in Europe, I guess, than in the United States.
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:18.799
Um this idea that you know you're and uh yeah, we come back to you know learning by doing.
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:25.519
And so the the story side, you know, if you're you you meet someone, they say, you know, what do you do?
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.559
So first of all, I think that's a really bad question.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:33.039
Because it sort of puts you in the box of you are what you do.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:33.599
Right.
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:50.079
Um and so you know, a question like, you know, so what's exciting these days, or you know, something that's a little bit more open to uh uh to letting them you know talk about something other than you know, oh I'm an accountant, you know.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:57.039
Um but so so say you're mowing you mow lawns or you're a gardener, and so someone says, Hey, what do you do?
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.599
And you say, Well, you know, I'm a gardener.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.079
And so then the person says, Okay, I'll go get a drink, you know, kind of thing.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:09.839
But so you say, So let's so let's go back to recognition, perception, projection.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:17.759
So you say, you know, homeowners that have this yard, they bought the house thinking, you know, this is gonna be amazing, we're gonna have this great thing.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:28.319
And then the yard is a mess because they come home from work and it's you know, they're tired and you know, gardening is a thing and it doesn't work out and stuff, and they're frustrated and they're ashamed of their yard.
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:44.160
And I come in and I work with them, and I and I have this system where I can, you know, get them to have this really nice yard, and then they're so happy, they're proud of their yard, they do these barbecues with their neighbors, and you know, this brings joy into their life.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.160
And so, you know, I'm a gardener.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:56.880
Uh but if you can tell the story again from their point of view, I mean it's way more engaging.
00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:03.279
It's sort of like, you know, these people are in this situation, and this is how I help, and this is why their life is better.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.160
Yeah.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:13.200
Um and suddenly that story makes it feel like wow, I mean, you you're you have meaning, you know, in your life.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.799
You know, what I do is no fun.
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:19.359
I mean, you know, whatever it is, uh, you know, I'm a school teacher.
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.359
Well, damn, there's a story there.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.720
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:25.920
I love that.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:28:01.119
And and you know, even just that simple uh giving the title of what I do, quote unquote, versus the story of what I offer or how I support, or that is so is very engaging and makes someone want uh makes me in that moment want to learn, well, what what else do you enjoy about gardening and it offers more opportunity to explore and expand.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:10.640
When I have a when I have a like a workshop with a company and there's a number of people and they know each other and I don't, so we have to go around the table to do some kind of introduction.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:11.279
Right.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.519
So what I ask them to do is introduce someone else.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.039
Ah, I love it.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.319
And and brag about them.
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.000
You know, what is amazing about your colleague?
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.880
Yeah, you know, you can't do that for yourself, right?
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:40.079
But you know, Julie, you know, she's in whatever thing, but you know, she's blah blah blah, you know, and and then the other person says, yeah, you know, things, and then someone else, and and it and it sort of braises up everyone.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:40.559
Yeah.
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.519
Because it's easier to tell someone else's story than your own.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:44.160
Right.
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:59.440
It's that uh art it made me think of like the art of introduction, kind of that cocktail party-esque where someone is introducing other people to you and giving that giving you a little story of them in that introduction.
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:00.160
I love it.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.720
Ah the other the other one is um, what is your superpower?
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:05.839
Ah, yes.
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:17.680
Because it's it's a way of saying, you know, some say I do a a wicked pot roast, and you know, and the other is, you know, I'm uh you know crazy AI developer or whatever it is.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:24.799
Yeah, you can choose something where you know that gets excited instead of you know the what you do.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:25.440
Yeah.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:41.599
Oh I now my brain is firing, and I love all of these pieces that come together to support our lives in a creative way and help us think and express and experience things differently.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.200
This has been such a spectacular conversation.
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:46.960
I have one last question.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:47.680
Yes.
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.200
What does it feel like in your body to be creative?
00:29:53.759 --> 00:30:00.400
Um so I I really I really can feel that sense of flow.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:00.960
Yeah.
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:12.079
Where you're sort of connected, where you're not uh, you know, you suddenly realize that you you've been sitting for too long.
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:33.279
Or I mean so there's a and yeah, I mean sometimes there is there's just this extra energy and you know, and you know, and you can really tell where it's you know, you're just at that level where you you're something's happening, uh that you know, there's a little bit of a challenge, but you know, you succeed in something.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:44.160
You know, like video game developers are amazing in that idea of matching the level to be engaged.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:52.319
If you're bad at it, it starts you know, and as soon as you get better, it gets harder, but it's never too hard.
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:59.039
And it's always at that thing where you, you know, it's just hard enough that it's engaging, but not too hard.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:18.559
And and and in in life, if you can do that with what you're doing, to you know, you're doing the stuff that you have to do and it's no fun, but you you you know, learn a new thing or try a new thing, you know you know, there being at that at that sort of edge uh is is just I love it.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:28.720
Well, thank you, John, so much for joining me and sharing all of these wonderful pieces about the work you do and creativity.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:34.799
If people want to learn more about your work, your book, how could they go about doing that?
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:40.480
The easiest way is to go onto my website, which is standpoint.ch.
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:45.119
So I'm in Switzerland, so it's not a dot com or whatever, it's standpoint.ch.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.319
And there's things about the method, about the book.
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.519
You can get a free half an hour connection.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.680
We can talk about your company, your brand.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:32:10.960
Uh, there's a there's going there's um kind of quiz uh that looks that you give your website, it analyzes through this uh prism of the you know, recognition, perception, projection, looks a little bit about your social channels.
00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:12.319
What story do you tell?
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.720
And are you telling the same story everywhere?
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.720
And does that all help build the story you're trying to tell and things?
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.640
Um, and uh, and all that.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:24.480
So you can you'll find that directly on standpoint.ch.
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:25.359
Perfect.
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:30.240
Well, I will put that link and others in show notes so people have very easy access.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:32.720
And thank you again for joining me.
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.359
I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:36.640
Well, me too.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:40.799
And so I'm at evening, you're starting your day.
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.079
Thanks for listening to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.920
We'd love to keep in touch, so follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.400
We are at Sustaining Creativity.
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:07.279
Make sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts and tag your friends and family so they can listen too.
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.039
We love to hear from you, so leave your reviews, comments, and questions.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:17.680
Check out our website, sustainingcreativity.com, for upcoming offerings and creativity coaching.
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.400
Tune in Tuesdays for our next episode.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:41.759
And remember, with creativity, anything's on the episode.
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.320
Welcome to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.
00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.239
I'm your host, Mari Reisberg.
00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:31.120
Over the past several years, I've combined my degrees in acting and somatic psychology to share my sustaining creativity techniques with performers.
00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:34.799
And now I've decided to share with a bigger audience that includes you.
00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:39.359
I believe we are all creative, and this podcast is all about that.
00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:45.520
I'll be interviewing people from all backgrounds, ages, and creativity experiences to share just how creative we all are.
00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:50.719
Today I'll be chatting with John Elbing, storybuilder, brand consultant, and author.
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:53.520
Please enjoy John Elving.
00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.040
Welcome to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.
00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:16.079
Today I'm chatting with John Elving, storybuilder, brand consultant, and author.
00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:18.079
Welcome to the podcast.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:19.439
Hi, Mari.
00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:21.359
Happy to be here.
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:22.799
The other side of the world.
00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:27.280
I know you're out there in Colorado and I'm in Geneva, Switzerland.
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:29.599
And so I love that.
00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:30.799
I love that too.
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:45.439
I love that we get to talk about creativity across the globe and share all of the exciting experiences of creatives in Switzerland to other parts of the globe and world.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.879
So I'm thrilled to have you join me today.
00:01:49.680 --> 00:02:08.080
When, you know, this idea of storybuilding or brand telling or consulting, why don't you share a little bit more about how you got into that, what it is, and how it shows up in the creative side of your life.
00:02:09.759 --> 00:02:26.400
So I've been zigzagging, you know, I was a software developer, I did an MBA in finance, I did startups, I did work in digital marketing, but I've been independent for like 10 years now with a lot of different design thinking and all these methods and canvases and post-its and things.
00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:33.280
And when I stumbled on storytelling, it was way more than storytelling.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:47.840
But then I realized that it forced the people I work with to ask the right questions.
00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:49.919
Who am I talking to?
00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:51.120
What's important?
00:02:51.680 --> 00:03:01.280
And to go through these questions about the match between your customer story and your story and all that forces you to be clear.
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:10.800
It aligns teams on a shared mission, it has this kind of you know, adds focus, you know, especially with I work with companies, but also with startups.
00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:16.400
And startups are, you know, sometimes are sort of like, hey, we have this cool new thing, we're not quite sure for who.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:25.120
And and you know, the exercise of making the right story was actually brings in a lot more.
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:32.400
Uh, you know, if I have to link it to creativity, I always found that creativity works when you have constraints.
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.039
If you ask a kid to say, draw something, they'll say, Oh, I don't know what.
00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:44.800
And you ask them to say, you know, draw, you know, a purple animal, they'll say, Oh, wow, and then they'll have all these ideas.
00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:56.400
And so by fitting in these formats, you know, it constrains your creativity, but then it actually comes out with something uh that uh that is pretty pretty powerful.
00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:57.840
I agree.
00:03:58.719 --> 00:04:02.960
Yeah, the giving some boundary or structure.
00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:05.759
Yeah, I don't feel like I've invented something crazy.
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:12.240
I mean, they do have my method called story building, and it's a book and all that, but somehow part of it is the process.
00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:13.280
You go through.
00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:15.759
I mean, usually people say, I know what I'm doing, what do you do?
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.600
And they just say, I do this.
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:23.680
But then when you go through and you say, Oh yeah, I mean, and you can almost hear the clicks in people's minds.
00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:55.759
You know, my my whole my whole shtick is this idea that tell your customer's story, tell your story from their standpoint, the company's standpoint, it's all about you know their standpoint, and and this way of stepping away and looking at yourself from the outside and then and and telling the story, how people can engage with that instead of you know from the inside out to sort of say, Hey, I do this, and you know, it's up to you to figure out if that's if there's a reason to connect, if that's for you.
00:04:56.079 --> 00:05:01.040
It's more like I see you, and this is how you know we could have a relationship.
00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:02.000
Yeah.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:19.600
I I like that kind of shift in perspective of making the customer really feel seen in their journey to bring them into the organization or the product or whatever it is that you're telling the story about.
00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:30.959
Well, you you may have shared a little bit of this when we were just talking, but I'm curious when you think of creativity, what does it mean to you to be creative?
00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:42.000
So um, you know, I've uh I love exploring and learning new things.
00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:44.560
And that's been a blessing.
00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:53.279
I would say, you know, 80% blessing, 20% curse in the sense of, you know, I'm zigzagged when I was bored with a job, I would quit and change and try something else.
00:05:53.439 --> 00:06:03.360
I went back to school at 40, and then I've been doing trainings and discovering new things and then trying to build, and I'm building with AI and understanding and things like that.
00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:12.319
And most of that doesn't translate into extra money, you know.
00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:33.600
So you know, so I do all these things, you know, and I'm you know, I'm uh I'm I'm very happy, but I sort of feel, you know, when I was working in a bank doing the first, you know, e-banking websites back at the turn of the century kind of thing, well, I was probably you know earning three times as much as today, but uh now I'm 10 times happier, so it all balances out.
00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:52.319
So, but so creativity, you know, part of it is kind of learning through doing this idea to say the point isn't to understand like AI, it's to sort of play with what you can do with that and come up with things.
00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:56.240
I find one thing that's been really interesting is the rapid feedback.
00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.720
You know, I want to I wanted to come up with a course, say.
00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:02.319
And so I would sit down and I would go through, and there was my thing.
00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:06.639
But with AI, you can sort of speed that up and say, okay, what would that look like?
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:09.839
And then think, ooh, but there's something else that could be interesting.
00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:15.839
How about if we added this and then you see it, and then you think, oh yeah, but how about this?
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:22.079
And then you say, but couldn't instead of giving them the theory, could we give them an exercise that they would learn it through doing?
00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:25.680
And then look, and and then at the end, you have something.
00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.199
I mean, it's based on, you know, so I'm saying teaching my model.
00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:51.920
I mean, it I I have the information that the AI isn't inventing, but that rapid exchange makes you, you know, opens up this creativity of the ways of doing it, trying, you know, often you say, okay, well, it's good enough, and I'm not gonna spend another week getting it better, but when you can do that fast, uh, I thought, fine, that's very uh that's fun.
00:07:52.000 --> 00:08:02.240
And then it's uh, but it's actually, you know, produces some, you know, levels up what you're trying to do and comes helps you come up with new ideas and and I love that.
00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:10.240
I love the the creativity is you know, learning through doing because I I feel like I experience learning through that as well.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:47.039
I more hands-on experience really helps me kind of bridge the gap between my mind and my body, and that helps when when we're active in it, and so I can appreciate those pieces when you are building a story or working with organizations or companies or clients, what is the process of you know getting a story, creating a story together or aligning a story?
00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:51.200
What is that journey that you go on?
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:53.759
So so there are two sides.
00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:59.759
One, I have a theory that of how what happens in our brain when we encounter a brand.
00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:00.320
Okay.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:08.639
And then the idea is to say, let's build a story in the sequence of the natural sequence of what you're going through.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:09.279
Okay.
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:15.919
So the idea is when we first encounter a brand, we have this first thing saying, is that for me?
00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:21.919
Do I recognize myself in the offer, in the company, in whatever it is?
00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.679
And I call that first stage recognition recognition.
00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:42.480
And if if I land on a website that says, hey, here's what we do, you know, I'm saying I'm looking for a CRM because I'm an independent consultant and I want to build my business for customer relationship management, and I land on one, and and one, you know, says, We're the best for teams.
00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.879
And I think I'm not a team, they're gone.
00:09:45.039 --> 00:10:05.600
And you know, their product might have been perfect for me, but and then I land on another one and says, We specialize in you know, solopreneurs, independent consultants, you know, then we, you know, and I think, oh, they love me, they see me, they, you know, and I feel that I'm I've already they've already gained a little bit of trust because they've concentrated on people like me.
00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:13.279
If I was an accountant, say, and I wanted to employ one more accounting firm, you know, pick a niche.
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.440
I know I'm accountants for medical professionals or for gardeners or something.
00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:21.360
So if I'm not a gardener, I mean, I think I'm I'm not gonna stop.
00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:30.559
But if I'm a gardener, I'm gonna think, oh wow, I mean, out of the hundred, you know, uh accountants out there, this one you know likes people like me.
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:32.720
You know, that that's that's really powerful.
00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:36.159
When it's for everybody, you know, it's for nobody.
00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:38.720
So so and I think a lot of companies skip that.
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:58.240
They sort of they're I mean, of course, you're in your day-by-day thing, you're you know, you're you see your company from the inside, and to you know, to sort of so the if you tell their story and they feel seen, that's a you know, first of all, it's it's the right people that keep reading, and the wrong people stop, so you have a better set of you know, the better kind of thing.
00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:05.759
And that, you know, and then they'll say, okay, well, tell me more, instead of you know, skimming through and you sort of have to force it down their throats.
00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:08.799
It's uh because you know, they think, oh, I mean, that's for me.
00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:19.360
If I landed on a website saying we specialize in services for independent consultants with a white beard that live in Switzerland and have, well, no, the kind of speard, but you know, I'll think, Oh, you know, that's for me.
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:31.120
I don't know what they offer yet, but you know, and so and then the second one is perception, which is the idea you have to really understand what's going on, and it's about what category people like to put you in a category.
00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:32.799
Uh do I trust them?
00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:34.080
You know, is it simple?
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:35.200
Do I really understand?
00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:39.440
You know, a lot of companies want to be clever, and clever probably doesn't help.
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:39.919
Yeah.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:43.039
Um, and so, and then I'm really convinced.
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:50.399
I have this CRM and I think, great, finally, I'm going to jump the thing and I'm gonna do it, and I'm gonna be successful.
00:11:51.679 --> 00:12:01.600
But then you have to have to buy it and then I have to install it, I have to learn to use it, and I have to use the old thing, and I have to go find the information in my emails and my Excel spread.
00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:04.960
Okay, I'm gonna do this, but I'll come back next week.
00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:05.919
And then I don't.
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:06.879
Ah, right.
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:13.759
And so if you can accompany people in that third phase, which I call projection, is sort of what it's it gonna be like?
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.279
Is it gonna be easy?
00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:27.519
Can I migrate from my, you know, you go on to Apple Music and they'll say with one click, you can get all your podcast, your playlist from Spotify, say, you know, because you know, people say, Oh, damn, I mean, how can I shift?
00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:31.360
You know, why are you loyal to your hairdresser?
00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:37.440
Because if you switched, you'd have to explain the thing, you got it just right, finally.
00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:38.960
I mean, that's too much work.
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:45.039
Yeah, and then it's also about I solve a lot of problems, but I can't say all that.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:58.000
So I say, you know, you're in this situation, but at the end you can sort of say, hey, and you'll stop worrying about this, and you'll do and you either you'll solve this problem, and then close your eyes and imagine how your life will be better.
00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:02.559
You'll stop wasting time on this, or you'll be this, or you're you know, whatever it is.
00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:14.240
And so if you get people to close all those objections, worries, doubts, then almost pre-live this thing that you're gonna offer.
00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.919
I mean, they're already a few more steps into that engagement.
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:24.960
It's sort of instead of sort of saying, Oh, okay, okay, now I have to have a demo, I mean, and they're not, but they're worried.
00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:29.919
Yeah, they're sort of say, Wow, yeah, okay, let's let's let's do that demo.
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:47.519
And so if you write a story where they, you know, they they really recognize themselves, it can be identity, it can be their their their aspiration, it can be their challenges, and then they they it clicks on what they do, what you know, how they how you position, and then they can imagine that they're you know, this the life would be.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.279
I mean, if you're selling milk at the corner store, I mean you don't need that kind of story.
00:13:51.759 --> 00:14:10.080
There are a lot of things where where where you and so then you know to to to build that story, I have canvases, one canvas for the customer where it's about their aspirations, their challenge, their trigger moments, their things, all these, you know, but it's just going through all these questions the same for your company.
00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:19.200
And then it's really a framework where I have those three steps recognition, perception, projection, and then you sort of pick what's really important.
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:20.879
What is the important aspiration?
00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:21.919
What is the important child?
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.279
What is the best story I can put in that order?
00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.720
And that gives you kind of a story structure.
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:31.200
And that's why I call it story building.
00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:42.000
If you type storytelling into Google or into YouTube, there's a gazillion tips and tricks where you start with a hook and you stand on one leg and you do this, and you like you know, kind of stuff.
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:42.320
Right.
00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:45.039
But it presupposes that you have the right story to tell.
00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.960
So, what I want to do is to help you build the right story as a kind of structure.
00:14:51.200 --> 00:15:03.919
And then you can make a website, you can make a pitch deck, you can stand on stage, you can do an ad, whatever it is, but you've built this core foundational story that brings everyone together.
00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:07.600
The fact that you build the story together as a team is really powerful.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:16.000
Um, you know, in some bigger companies, they have marketing and sales that are sort of fighting because it's always the other group's fault if something doesn't work out.
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:16.720
Uh-huh.
00:15:17.279 --> 00:15:24.559
So, but if they build the story together, that story that comes through the marketing really connects with the story that the salesperson tells.
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:32.000
And and, you know, they're not, you know, they it makes them work together instead of sort of a little bit against each other.
00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:33.200
That makes sense.
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:41.200
Well, thank you for breaking all of that down and just sharing sharing the three phases and all of those pieces.
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:52.159
I I think it just listening to you talk really helped me kind of go on that mental journey with you, of it made a lot of sense.
00:15:53.039 --> 00:16:00.720
I mean, I'm sure for a podcast, you know, if you say, hey, this is a podcast for everybody in the world kind of thing, you know.
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:11.279
But if you say, you know, hey, you're really interested in this, or you're struggling with that, or you're at this point, or you know, you're you know, whatever it is, you're a you know, you and people can say, Oh, that's me.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.960
Yeah, then they'll say, Oh, I want to go, let's let's go try listen to that.
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:16.879
Right, exactly.
00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.840
Well, I I love all of those pieces.
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:37.600
And just the there's a lot of nuance in it, in building that story and knowing your brand identity or who you are as an individual to tell that story or to oh, sometimes it can take you know quite a while.
00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:42.080
Yes, because then you can test it with customers and come back and change the vocabulary.
00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.519
I mean, until you get something where you really feel that you're comfortable.
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:46.320
Yeah.
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:59.519
Well, working with companies and organizations and helping inspire their story and build that with them, where do you find inspiration in your life?
00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.799
A big part of it, I think, is empathy.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:22.000
In the sense of, you know, when when uh when a founder sort of tells me this messy story of what they do, what they've done, and all this kind of thing, I'm sort of taking that in as their customer.
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:35.279
And I can come back and say, so what you're saying is that you can do, you know, you can do this for me, and this is why my life will be, and you know, I get to turn it from their point of view, and I've sort of become a almost automatic.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:44.480
Uh, you know, I've done that so much, even before working with it, you know, I was sort of afraid of conflict when I was young, when I was young.
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:57.359
And so I sort of rehearsed what I wanted to say and imagining how the other person would feel, and that became this kind of, you know, and now I'm sort of doing that for a you know, a potential client.
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:07.759
And you know, I've done it with NGOs, and I mean, if you want to convince your spouse, you know, to go to the beach instead of the city, you know, well, you know, maybe the story is something similar, you know.
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:20.880
Uh it's not, it's not, it's not necessarily, you know, the customer, it can be, you know, uh about just and you know, a lot of people think the off sales is kind of this dirty thing that you have to do.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:30.799
And I real feel if you're in the position where you feel like this person is going to their life is going to be better.
00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:35.359
I mean, it's almost your duty to get them to understand that.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:36.000
Right.
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.559
I mean, you know, don't feel bad about it.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:52.160
I mean, I mean, of course, there's the used car salesman kind of uh type where you're trying to dump the the thing, but I think most people in their company there, I mean, it starts out where they they're serving someone and they want to help them.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:58.240
And it's more like, you know, I get you, and here's what we're doing that can, you know, make your life better.
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:07.359
I mean, it it so it's less about the tricks of minus 20, or you know, the the the Halloween deal or whatever else.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:12.480
It's about hey, you know, we I get you.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:13.680
I see you.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:18.640
That's a powerful that statement is super powerful.
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:20.319
I see you, I get you.
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:25.119
That I think that's you know, isn't that the human condition?
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:27.359
That's what we want to be seen and heard.
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:35.680
I mean, have you I'm sure you go you've gone into a restaurant, a bar, or a store, and someone will say, Hey, how are you today?
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:42.160
And they recognize you and say, uh, you know, and and I mean, isn't that nice?
00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:47.279
Um and so uh yeah, yeah, of course.
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:48.160
Yeah.
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:56.079
Well, what are the creative pieces that you're exploring or excited about in your life, maybe outside of work?
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:06.640
So I sort of I sort of mix, you know, I'm not sure where work stops and where life is.
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:30.400
You know, I'm I sort of want to continue doing this fun stuff where I get to, you know, either see some crazy entrepreneurs with, you know, crazy, you know, I'm I'm I'm coaching this startup that has a that analyzes your like a Fitbit kind of bracelet to analyze your emotions, injects the emotions into a video game, and the story of the video game changes with your emotion.
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:36.960
I mean, so I have a lot of so the idea is you come up to the dragon, and normally you'd have to slay the dragon.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:43.759
Yeah, but if you're relaxed, you can walk by and you're not scared, and you know, or whatever.
00:20:43.920 --> 00:21:12.559
Anyways, so um so the way part of the create so I'm so I'm playing with these ideas where they have the you know, a company, you know, I I worked with the world leader of garden shears, and we created these stories, and I mean, and so working with someone to to extract this thing and make it into something, a story, I find is really uh is is really fun.
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:13.039
Yeah.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:29.920
Um but you know, I you know, I I I I was able to buy my this apartment I'm in and and new, so I was able to choose, you know, the white brick wall behind it and the thing and the that each tile and the stuff, you know.
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:40.960
I I mean I love just kind of imagining, and it can be you know work where I'm building tools to analyze people's online presence and things and playing, as I said, with AI.
00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:57.839
Um or yeah, just uh kind of a s a systems view of how things connect and so one so one thing is I started cre doing two hour calculus parties.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:02.960
You remember in Old movies in the 70s where people actually talk to parties.
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:06.400
So Thursday between six and eight, and then it's never ends at eight.
00:22:06.480 --> 00:22:11.759
But you know the idea is it's it's not eating up your week, it's not eating up your weekend, you work the next day.
00:22:13.599 --> 00:22:20.319
So the last one I did, I invited nine people, and I said, You have to bring someone interesting that I don't know.
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.720
Oh, so they don't know each other.
00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:23.119
Yeah.
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:31.680
So we ended up being 18, and I so each yeah, to and then we had a single conversation for four hours.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:34.480
So I had predefined questions.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:58.000
We went around, created exchange, it created people helping others in what they were doing, and you know, you know, just with a few drinks and a few snacks, and it should have, you know, it should have lasted an hour, you know, with things, and then you know, people got involved and you know, coming up with interesting questions and making, you know, getting people to come out with what they need and how they can connect and all that.
00:22:59.200 --> 00:22:59.920
I love it.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:11.519
My goodness, that is I I I just I love that facilitation of connection and creativity and sharing and supporting.
00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:12.480
Yeah.
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:14.079
How fun.
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:16.960
And you do this every week.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.839
No, no.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:33.359
I mean, it's every every you know, quarter or something, depending on where and coming on my mind, you know, suddenly I'll do a few and then so I hurt my I yeah, I have this shoulder thing, and so now and then I have to go to a physiotherapist and I talk to my physiotherapist.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.039
So he has a side a side hustle that he's trying to build.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:46.480
So I gave him my book, and then I've been coaching him for his entrepreneurial idea, and then I go back and he does my shoulder.
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:49.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:49.839
That's great.
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:51.440
It's all about connection.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.759
It is, I absolutely agree.
00:23:53.920 --> 00:24:05.599
Well, for people who are feeling not like they're not creative or they don't know how to tell the story, or do they even have a story?
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:12.319
How would you encourage them to find their story or creativity in their life?
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:28.079
So I always feel that I I I regret not doing way more than regret doing, even if it's, you know, I put so much money in a startup that wouldn't know where and all that kind of stuff and things, but you know, hey, I learned so much and tried.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:33.920
And I think, you know, especially now, like with AI popping up, don't don't read, you know, just go on.
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:38.319
And at the beginning, I you know, you try something and then you think, oh wow, and then you try something else.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:42.640
And and and if it doesn't get anywhere, that's fine.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:50.240
You know, I've you know, I I've I've tried some things and then it went nowhere, but then you're opening up so many new possibilities.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:53.039
One will go somewhere and others won't.
00:24:53.599 --> 00:25:07.039
But if you don't, I I think people I think there's this negative this success criteria, you know, people are afraid are afraid to do something because if they fail, then that that's bad.
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:10.799
Uh even more so in Europe, I guess, than in the United States.
00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:18.799
Um this idea that you know you're and uh yeah, we come back to you know learning by doing.
00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:25.519
And so the the story side, you know, if you're you you meet someone, they say, you know, what do you do?
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.559
So first of all, I think that's a really bad question.
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:33.039
Because it sort of puts you in the box of you are what you do.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:33.599
Right.
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:50.079
Um and so you know, a question like, you know, so what's exciting these days, or you know, something that's a little bit more open to uh uh to letting them you know talk about something other than you know, oh I'm an accountant, you know.
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:57.039
Um but so so say you're mowing you mow lawns or you're a gardener, and so someone says, Hey, what do you do?
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:59.599
And you say, Well, you know, I'm a gardener.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.079
And so then the person says, Okay, I'll go get a drink, you know, kind of thing.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:09.839
But so you say, So let's so let's go back to recognition, perception, projection.
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:17.759
So you say, you know, homeowners that have this yard, they bought the house thinking, you know, this is gonna be amazing, we're gonna have this great thing.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:28.319
And then the yard is a mess because they come home from work and it's you know, they're tired and you know, gardening is a thing and it doesn't work out and stuff, and they're frustrated and they're ashamed of their yard.
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:44.160
And I come in and I work with them, and I and I have this system where I can, you know, get them to have this really nice yard, and then they're so happy, they're proud of their yard, they do these barbecues with their neighbors, and you know, this brings joy into their life.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.160
And so, you know, I'm a gardener.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:56.880
Uh but if you can tell the story again from their point of view, I mean it's way more engaging.
00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:03.279
It's sort of like, you know, these people are in this situation, and this is how I help, and this is why their life is better.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.160
Yeah.
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:13.200
Um and suddenly that story makes it feel like wow, I mean, you you're you have meaning, you know, in your life.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:14.799
You know, what I do is no fun.
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:19.359
I mean, you know, whatever it is, uh, you know, I'm a school teacher.
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:21.359
Well, damn, there's a story there.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.720
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:25.920
I love that.
00:27:26.079 --> 00:28:01.119
And and you know, even just that simple uh giving the title of what I do, quote unquote, versus the story of what I offer or how I support, or that is so is very engaging and makes someone want uh makes me in that moment want to learn, well, what what else do you enjoy about gardening and it offers more opportunity to explore and expand.
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:10.640
When I have a when I have a like a workshop with a company and there's a number of people and they know each other and I don't, so we have to go around the table to do some kind of introduction.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:11.279
Right.
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.519
So what I ask them to do is introduce someone else.
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:17.039
Ah, I love it.
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.319
And and brag about them.
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:24.000
You know, what is amazing about your colleague?
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:26.880
Yeah, you know, you can't do that for yourself, right?
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:40.079
But you know, Julie, you know, she's in whatever thing, but you know, she's blah blah blah, you know, and and then the other person says, yeah, you know, things, and then someone else, and and it and it sort of braises up everyone.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:40.559
Yeah.
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.519
Because it's easier to tell someone else's story than your own.
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:44.160
Right.
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:59.440
It's that uh art it made me think of like the art of introduction, kind of that cocktail party-esque where someone is introducing other people to you and giving that giving you a little story of them in that introduction.
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:00.160
I love it.
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.720
Ah the other the other one is um, what is your superpower?
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:05.839
Ah, yes.
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:17.680
Because it's it's a way of saying, you know, some say I do a a wicked pot roast, and you know, and the other is, you know, I'm uh you know crazy AI developer or whatever it is.
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:24.799
Yeah, you can choose something where you know that gets excited instead of you know the what you do.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:25.440
Yeah.
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:41.599
Oh I now my brain is firing, and I love all of these pieces that come together to support our lives in a creative way and help us think and express and experience things differently.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:45.200
This has been such a spectacular conversation.
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:46.960
I have one last question.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:47.680
Yes.
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:51.200
What does it feel like in your body to be creative?
00:29:53.759 --> 00:30:00.400
Um so I I really I really can feel that sense of flow.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:00.960
Yeah.
00:30:01.920 --> 00:30:12.079
Where you're sort of connected, where you're not uh, you know, you suddenly realize that you you've been sitting for too long.
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:33.279
Or I mean so there's a and yeah, I mean sometimes there is there's just this extra energy and you know, and you know, and you can really tell where it's you know, you're just at that level where you you're something's happening, uh that you know, there's a little bit of a challenge, but you know, you succeed in something.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:44.160
You know, like video game developers are amazing in that idea of matching the level to be engaged.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:52.319
If you're bad at it, it starts you know, and as soon as you get better, it gets harder, but it's never too hard.
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:59.039
And it's always at that thing where you, you know, it's just hard enough that it's engaging, but not too hard.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:18.559
And and and in in life, if you can do that with what you're doing, to you know, you're doing the stuff that you have to do and it's no fun, but you you you know, learn a new thing or try a new thing, you know you know, there being at that at that sort of edge uh is is just I love it.
00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:28.720
Well, thank you, John, so much for joining me and sharing all of these wonderful pieces about the work you do and creativity.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:34.799
If people want to learn more about your work, your book, how could they go about doing that?
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:40.480
The easiest way is to go onto my website, which is standpoint.ch.
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:45.119
So I'm in Switzerland, so it's not a dot com or whatever, it's standpoint.ch.
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:48.319
And there's things about the method, about the book.
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:51.519
You can get a free half an hour connection.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:53.680
We can talk about your company, your brand.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:32:10.960
Uh, there's a there's going there's um kind of quiz uh that looks that you give your website, it analyzes through this uh prism of the you know, recognition, perception, projection, looks a little bit about your social channels.
00:32:11.119 --> 00:32:12.319
What story do you tell?
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.720
And are you telling the same story everywhere?
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.720
And does that all help build the story you're trying to tell and things?
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.640
Um, and uh, and all that.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:24.480
So you can you'll find that directly on standpoint.ch.
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:25.359
Perfect.
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:30.240
Well, I will put that link and others in show notes so people have very easy access.
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:32.720
And thank you again for joining me.
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.359
I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation.
00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:36.640
Well, me too.
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:40.799
And so I'm at evening, you're starting your day.
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.079
Thanks for listening to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.
00:32:54.240 --> 00:32:57.920
We'd love to keep in touch, so follow us on Facebook and Instagram.
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:00.400
We are at Sustaining Creativity.
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:07.279
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00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:11.039
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00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:17.680
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00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:20.400
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00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:41.759
And remember, with creativity, anything's on the episode.
