Adam Powell (00:06.994)
Hello and welcome to Snyder's return a tabletop role play podcast. My guest today brings us the finest of tabletop offerings from the wilderness of the highlands to the wildness of the borderlands. He corrals all to a central location to display play and purchase the wares of a staggering number of vendors with many years of success and many more to come. It is a pleasure to welcome a tabletop Scotland convention director, Mr. David Wright to the show. David, thank you so much for joining me today.
Dave (00:33.896)
Absolutely my pleasure.
Adam Powell (00:36.565)
Well, thank you for joining me. One thing I'm very intrigued about, given various things that we've discussed prior to me hitting record and what you do within the tabletop sphere, is how you yourself got into tabletop role playing games or tabletop gaming in that respect, please.
Dave (00:54.888)
So I'm 51 this year, so you have to go back to the Demon's Distant Past of 1984. My brother Alan, who's three years older than me, got the Redbox Basic D &D set for his birthday. And I think it took about a week for me to annoy him enough to get to play with him and his friends. From there, it was kind of an obvious
kind of move into the other games that GW had the license for at that time. So Golden Heroes, Middle Earth Role Playing and stuff like that. And that was kind of what really brought role playing games into be my kind of primary hobby and now semi permanent hobby in that sense.
Adam Powell (01:47.922)
So with it being a hobby and we don't have to sort of keep harkening back to the year, we don't have to age you every time I bring it up, over the course of your TTRPG experience, what have been some of your favorite games to play and what have been some of your favorite things to play which have been outside of the tabletop role -playing game sphere as well?
Dave (01:52.616)
you
Yes.
Dave (02:10.024)
So RPGs dominated, certainly right up until probably until I moved away from Glasgow, which would have been about 20 years ago. So they played a lot of the Star Wars West End Games RPG, which was a lot of fun. But people tend to find, I find people tend to fall into two camps. They either discover the hobby at university or they discover it beforehand and they stop playing at university because they're
Adam Powell (02:38.77)
you
Dave (02:39.016)
doing other things. I was very much in that second camp. So by the time I got to uni, I had stopped gaming. I was still buying gaming stuff. Right at the height of the D20 glut. Pretty much everything that was coming out back then, I was buying it. And then we moved to the East Nuka Fife to Glasgow and I got rid of everything. And that, to give context, that was about 3000 books and about the same
Adam Powell (02:46.738)
Hmm.
Dave (03:08.552)
well, maybe about a thousand magazines, lots of white dwarfs, lots of dragon magazine, lots of dungeon magazine, lots of all sorts of stuff. Because I was under the illusion of, well, I'm moving to middle of nowhere. I'm not going to be playing games anymore. And then I discovered Orc Edinburgh, which is a club community of role players in Edinburgh. And from there I was like, well, I'll just drive into Edinburgh every other Saturday and play role playing.
Adam Powell (03:22.45)
Hmm.
Dave (03:38.152)
But other games that I've played, I mean, I've played, in fact, Orc introduced me to All Flesh Must Eat and the Eden Studios suite of games. And after that, or more recently, I got into games like FFG's Edge of the Empire, their Star Wars series. And during the pandemic was the first time I ever read Call of Cthulhu. And all that time I had never played, well, I'd played Runequest.
many, many, many years ago, but I'd never played Call of Cthulhu or read Call of Cthulhu. But I decided, well, why haven't I? So I thought I'd better read it. Type thing is one of these games. So yeah, that's... But other than that, I got into board games, again, pretty much no long after we moved here. I established with one of my friends here, a local games club, and we play a lot of board games there.
Adam Powell (04:15.474)
you
Dave (04:34.12)
And that was really where I started to explore board gaming as a hobby and play a lot of a variety of things. I'm not a heavy Euro fan. I'm not a person who likes to hurt my brain when I'm playing them. I want to enjoy them in the sense that it's light. But yeah, I like a game that can be played in 90 minutes and can handle a wide range of players from a board game perspective because it is literally then.
Adam Powell (04:47.122)
Hmm.
Dave (05:03.688)
If it's anything more than that, I would be sitting thinking why am I not playing a role playing game? Because that could take more effort in that sense. So yeah, those are kind of the two main aspects. I dabbled with Magic for a wee while. And I enjoy Magic as a game, but it's never been a game I've felt the need to invest in because it is one that you would probably have to spend a lot of money on to really be part of that scene in that community. But yeah, Wargaming has never been my thing.
Battle tech is a thing that I like but it's a board game because it's on hexes and so you know and but Wargaming's never been my thing at all.
Adam Powell (05:37.362)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (05:42.29)
I mean, you've sort of sample tried and have experience with such a broad range, which I imagine each is sort of potentially influenced the other with respect to your likes, dislikes and such things, as you mentioned. And I'm curious and we haven't sort of actually before I am curious. But before we get on to that, I'm a very curious kind of guy. Where can we find you? Where can we find everything you're associated with, please?
Dave (05:53.96)
Yes, absolutely.
Dave (06:01.192)
Hehehehehe
Dave (06:09.192)
So you can find me on most social media as a second chapter. There's a story behind that, which if you want to cover, we're quite happy to do. It's why it's called a second chapter and everything else from a TableTop Scotland perspective is TableTop Scott. And that's on Macedon, Blue Sky, X slash Twitter, Instagram, threads and obviously Facebook as well. And the website is www .TableTopScotland .co .uk.
Adam Powell (06:17.106)
Please.
Dave (06:38.6)
very kind of universally, kind of using the phrase A second chapter on a variety of social media and Discord for that matter. Yeah, I did. Yeah. So at one point in time, I owned a game store. Not long after we moved here, I had the opportunity to do that. And my wife, my wife agreed that it was a moment of badness, but she let me kind of explore it. The store didn't work out.
Adam Powell (06:48.818)
And you teased us to why?
Dave (07:08.456)
And for a period of time, I lost my hobby, you know, so because things have become products rather than things I enjoyed. So it took me the best part of a year to rediscover it as a hobby, as something that I enjoyed. So I refer to that time as the start of the second chapter, because it's very much the first chapter was when I got into the hobby initially and then stuff like that. But the
the shop or the closure of the shop was the catalyst for the start of the second child.
Adam Powell (07:41.17)
It's a wonderfully tragic story, depending on perspective.
Dave (07:43.912)
Yeah, I mean, it's been a fair few years now since the close, so I think emotionally that trauma has passed me by. But that, it was one of those moments where you're going to go back, I'll use a quite obscure reference. In the film Field of Dreams, there's a reference called, there's a constant life of baseball, right? And it's one of those life's constants. And for me, role playing games and board games,
Primarily role -playing games has always been one of those life's constants. So like Star Wars, as opposed to a degree. So it is almost like that constant needed to either define it again or I had to replace it with something else because I needed something. And that a second chapter start, as it were, was really how I rediscovered my hobby.
Adam Powell (08:34.29)
That's amazing. That's amazing. And you've mentioned there sort of something having to replace it. So not replacing, but building on. When did your hobby start to turn into Tabletop Scotland, as you mentioned there in the links? When did that transition begin?
Dave (08:54.536)
Yeah.
So I used to go, I still do go now, but I used to go to some of the smaller conventions, and I don't mean that as a negative, that exist in Scotland, like compulsion, which is run by Edinburgh University's RPG society. And I then, for my 40th, my wife, for my birthday, gave me, or allowed me to spend the best part of three and a half thousand pounds to go to Gen Con in Indianapolis.
which also happened to coincide with the release of 5e because it was in 2014 and it was one of those things of and if you've never been in tabletop scott and does not emulate this in fact nothing emulates this is for our concern it's just a festival feeling of there's so much going on and it blew me away and it really opened my eyes to what you could do as a community and if you approached it as a festival rather than as a trade show
And then at Expo in 2015, I got quite drunk. And one of my friends in particular would just nudge me on things. And he would know which buttons to press. And the button of, well, why don't, because I was moaning about the lack of anything that I felt was good in Scotland at that time. And he was like, well, why don't you do something about it? I was like, OK, I will. So that was where the kind of idea was born, as it were.
It then took the best part of two years for not just to find a venue, but for a team to solidify around that. There was lots of people who wanted to be involved, but couldn't give the time commitment or whatever it was, because there is a time commitment to something like this. And then we announced it in October 2017 that we were doing it. And we opened the doors that first weekend in September in 2018.
Adam Powell (10:38.29)
Hmm.
Dave (10:54.76)
And yeah, it was quite something.
Adam Powell (10:59.25)
Yeah, definitely. And it's continued on even through the troubled Covid years in a slightly different guise. If you wouldn't...
Dave (11:04.648)
Yeah.
Dave (11:08.456)
Yeah, I mean, from 18 to 19, it doubled in size, floor space wise, and attendance grew by 50%. And then we had the pandemic in 2020. And it was kind of like, I was happy, it's not quite necessarily right. It was an obvious decision not to host the event during that, because that just wasn't going to work for anybody. And the venue wouldn't allow us anyway. But my friend Mark,
Adam Powell (11:28.69)
Hmm.
Dave (11:36.776)
said to me, well, you've got all this free time now, Dave, so why don't you create an online convention? And his son had recovered from leukemia and had been supported by a charity called It's Good to Give, which is a Scottish kind of kids leukemia charity. And he said to me, well, we could raise some money for them. And I was very OK. So I think this is like in the June or maybe the May that he said it to me. And we
and held it in October and we raised just over three grand for it's good to go. And it was nothing. I mean, OK, it was obviously something we raised three grand. Don't get me wrong. I'm not diminishing that. But it was a discord server. That's all it was, right? But we then did it again in 21 and raised just over three thousand three hundred for Penumbra Mental Health Charity. And I think during that period, there was lots of ideas about, well,
Adam Powell (12:13.906)
Yeah, of course, yeah.
Dave (12:34.664)
when Tabletop Scotland comes back, what could it be? And it was at that point that even though I knew we were going to stay in our venue in Perth for at least for another couple of years, I did start to wonder where could we move it if we had to move it or if we wanted to move it for that matter. And then when we came back in 2022, it was very, very busy. I think it was something like 20.
22 % up or something like that in the previous year. And then last year, 23 years or last year in Perth, largely because we were running out of space, but also because the building was under threat of closure because it's council -owned building. And the pressures of the council budgets are under, are probably not lost to anybody in this current climate. So it was the sort of thing that, finding a new venue had to take a certain number of boxes.
and the one that we've chosen. I mean, we went. So we refactored here and there are only four venues in the whole of Scotland that are bigger than the Juris Center, which is a weird stat for Scotland to have one of them is in Aberdeen and two of them in Edinburgh and one of them is in Glasgow. And it was kind of like, right, OK, with all due respect to Aberdeen, I'm not moving it there because I live in the East Nuku Fife and.
Adam Powell (13:48.274)
Hmm.
Dave (14:02.088)
exhibitors were moaning about going as far north as Perth. So you can just imagine how much they would moan about going to Aberdeen. So it became a choice between essentially the SEC and the Royal Helen Centre. And the only thing that the SEC, well, actually the negatives from an SEC perspective, where they would only give me a one year contract, which doesn't work. And they had no real space for RPGs. I'd need to take over a hotel adjacent
Adam Powell (14:05.586)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (14:29.01)
Okay.
Dave (14:32.296)
to do that as well. And it was, it's the sort of thing that when RPGs are my primary hobby, it's a very important, it's a small part of the con, don't get me wrong, it is a small part of the con, but it's a very important part of the con to me. So that was the good work. And the Royal Helen Centre have been excellent to work with. We've had to become a slightly more professional as a team because they are a professional venue.
Adam Powell (14:33.234)
Hmm.
Dave (15:00.136)
And whereas the difference with Perth was they essentially gave me the keys and let me do what I like. Right. And didn't actually give me the keys. But you know, I mean, that's the principle of it's your building for this weekend, Dave, do what you want. And so, yeah, that's kind of and then obviously we're working towards that. We're 65 days away, something like that from our first year in the Royal Highland Centre. Which for context is three times the size.
Adam Powell (15:05.81)
Hmm.
Yes, as the saying goes. Yeah.
Adam Powell (15:22.546)
Hmm.
Dave (15:28.936)
of the space we had in Perth, which is insane, but exciting at the same time. So yeah, that's all going very well. There's been some hiccups over the last couple of months with some personal issues that I've had to deal with. But other than that, it's been going really, really well.
Adam Powell (15:48.37)
So if someone listening has gone, Tabletop Scotland, that sounds great. It's in Edinburgh. I can get there. I can do this. Fundamentally, what is Tabletop Scotland? Just so...
Dave (15:58.792)
So no, it's a really good question because so we are I do have some stats first. So we are the fourth largest based on 2023's attendance gaming convention in the UK. So Expo is obviously at the top by a country mile of everybody else and you've got your corn in Harrogate and Dragon Meat in London. We're also the second largest RPG convention in the UK. Only Expo runs more RPGs than that.
But we're also the largest D &D convention in the UK. We run the most D &D of any convention in the UK. So there's some really weird stats that always sound quite weird when I say them out loud. But what is it? It's a festival of tabletop gaming. And it's open to everybody. We, from inception, wanted to make sure that the event was something that people who knew nothing about the hobby.
and could come and explore it. Or who were relatively new into it, whether that's board gaming, card gaming, role playing, or indeed a little bit of miniature gaming. They could feel comfortable by coming in and exploring the hobby. And our RPG sessions are designed and all of my GMs are reasonably well versed on this, some more than others because they've been with me for every year.
know that the games that we have need to be accessible to new people who have never played a game before, as well as the people who can, who have. But it's as much about that as anything else. And for board gaming, we section off an area of the hall. We couldn't do this last year because we ran out of space and it was very much missed by our attendees called our gateway zone, where we, me and my team, choose like half a dozen games that we think are
very accessible board games are very accessible to people and we have people from our volunteer team demoing that and demoing them so that's in addition to the 120 or so exhibitors we're going to have this year which is 50 more than we had last year which is a bit nuts but it's it is really a place where you can literally come and shop if you want if that's what you want to do you can come and shop and then you can leave but
Dave (18:23.976)
We are open until 11 PM on the Friday and Saturday night. And you can come and game for that entire time. So yeah, it's the word festival. I mean, I referred to Gen Con being a festival and I think of what we are making here as more of a festival experience. It's not a trade show. It's not just a hall full of things to sell to you. Although there is some of that, obviously. But it is the ability for you to
Adam Powell (18:27.218)
Wow.
Adam Powell (18:38.194)
Yeah.
Dave (18:53.736)
Go along with some friends or your family and spend the entire weekend just playing games and immersing yourself in the hobby.
Adam Powell (19:00.306)
That's amazing. And as an avid gamer yourself and with the people behind the curtain, because you know not everything that's coming, but you know some of the vendors and sort of some of the setups that are coming, what are some of the things that you're most excited for this year? Not as the convention director, but as a gamer, what are you excited for?
Dave (19:20.52)
Yeah
Dave (19:27.144)
So pretty much since we started, and there's a few people who have made a reference to this, when I made an announcement on Facebook about this particular company coming, there were a number of companies that I wanted to come. And one of them is Modiphius. You had Chris on a couple episodes ago. And it's because I'm friends with Gary Harper, who used to work at Modiphius, and I'm friends with Lloyd Guyon, who also used to work at Modiphius. And each year, I would go any chance.
And so this year, I suspect because we're right next door to Edinburgh Airport, that's probably an important factor here. It was with much joy that I was like, OK, they're going to come. That's great. And it didn't feel like there was no doubt in my head after having the chat with Daniel, who's the events manager. And he was like, OK, we'll come. We'll have this size booth. We'll do this, that and the other. How else can we get involved? And I was like, OK, this is a
This is actually a proper conversation. And the one thing I've noticed this year when I was at Expo and indeed the run up to Expo this year, a lot of the name companies, I use that phrase loosely, but you'll know what I mean in the sense of it's not, well, it is people like Kiosium. Kiosium want to come and they are here, they're coming. That's great. And Pandemonium Institute are coming over from, well, Evan.
from from a band of monuments coming over from Melbourne for it. They are the people who make blood in the clock tower. And it's kind of like, right, OK, if we hadn't moved to Edinburgh, would that have happened? And that's the thing that excites me. It's the fact that it's not so much justifying the decision to move, but it gives me confidence that I've made the right decision in moving. But the thing that will excite me and it's the thing that excites me every year is when I open the doors.
or not honestly I, but we open the doors and people come in and they look excited. Because it's the sort of thing that I, my team and I can do all the prep in the world. But until you open the doors, you don't actually know. You can see your ticket sales going to the rate that they're going at, but until people walk through the doors, you don't actually know if it's gonna work. And if it isn't gonna work at that stage, it's a bit late.
Dave (21:54.632)
You know, you kind of have to just roll with it at that point. But we now roughly know what we're doing. I'm never going to say that we know what we're doing, but we now roughly know what we're doing. And the feedback. Yeah, I've kind of gone off on a wee tangent here, Adam, apologies. But the feedback that we get from attendees is obviously very important to us. But the feedback that we've got in the relationship we've
Adam Powell (22:04.306)
you
Adam Powell (22:12.786)
It's fine, no no, you carry on, please.
Dave (22:23.56)
relationships we've built with exhibitors over the years has always been really, really positive. And it's not, I mean, a lot of them say that we are their favorite convention. And I kind of take that with a pinch of salt, but then they keep saying it. And I don't know if that's because we look after them. We check in with them. Have you had a drink? Have you had your lunch? When was the last time you went to the toilet? Stuff like that, right?
Because they're working the entire weekend and they need to be able to take their breaks and it's stuff like that that my team and by extension our volunteer team do that as well. They check in with them to make sure everybody's okay. Yeah, I mean it's kind of just the whole thing is what excites me as opposed to the rubbish answer there. There's lots of little aspects to it.
The event schedule is important to me, particularly the RPG schedule. 25 tables, seven slots. So whatever that is, 175 tables multiply that by 5 .5 people. I can't do the maths in my head. But no, but that's roughly how many seats we'll have, which is nuts, frankly, for an event in Scotland, but great as well. That's actually cool.
Adam Powell (23:34.45)
going to try.
Yeah.
Dave (23:45.736)
and various other events. I'll mention one more, my friend Peter, who's a big Arkham Horror, the card game fan. In fact, he runs the second largest podcast for Arkham Horror, the largest being the Spanish one. They're running a 100 player Arkham Horror card game event at the convention and 30 people are coming over from Spain for it, which is again, just a bit nuts, but really cool. And it's knowing that
now we have that space, we can now do things like that, you know? And that just brings an element of a lot more cool things can come. We can do cool stuff type of thing. So yeah, that's... Anyway.
Adam Powell (24:34.706)
Yeah, no need to apologize. Tangents are always good when there's passion involved. So run wild and roll wild. Anyway, so.
Dave (24:44.904)
enemy.
Adam Powell (24:48.562)
So we know what Tabletop Scotland is now. We know where you are close to Edinburgh Airport in the Royal Highland. And I guess the only thing that's kind of missing is the dates. I don't think we've mentioned when it is. We know where it is. We know...
Dave (25:00.04)
Yeah.
Yeah, so we're the sixth to eighth of September and we'll be the first weekend in September for the next two years after this one as well. And that was, as I was referring to the conversations, the SEC, that was very important. Having the same weekend every year is absolutely key for any convention as Expo knows, as GenCon knows, as AirCon and Dragon Meat know and various other cons know. You kind of have to be in the calendar.
And it's knowing that that's when we are is important for a couple of reasons. We obviously can't be in Edinburgh during August because of the French Festival being on. And moving because we were previously almost always at the end of August in Perth. But we had to move date to be in Edinburgh and to get the venue that we wanted, which is fine. It's one of these things that
The schools are already back in Scotland. The number of friends in England that have mourned at me. But the schools are back in England now. And I'm like, yeah, but they've always been back in Scotland. It's really not that big a deal. It's just one of these things. People are going to come if they want to come. That's how they'll do it. And sure enough, they are. But it is that first weekend in September, which is, yeah, it'll still be relatively warm for Scotland. So that should be fine.
Adam Powell (26:29.713)
I like your optimism. I thought we were going into I think it was an
Dave (26:31.24)
It is an air conditioned building though, I will say that, which Perth wasn't, so there you go.
Adam Powell (26:38.625)
All these benefits. I thought we might be going into another field of dreams. Is that if you build it, they all come?
Dave (26:45.128)
If you build it, they will come. Yeah, I don't use that phrase. Other people use that phrase when they talk about it. But no, if you build it, they will come. People will come. That's the phrase. So it is one of these things that there's lots of fields of dreams references that you can apply to this. But then that's fine. I happen to like the film, so that's good. Peace.
Adam Powell (27:06.77)
It's probably going to cost. So with you, you mentioned earlier a connection with D &D when it was released, when you went to Gen Con way back when. And you have a more engaged link with D &D in a manner of speaking. You mentioned.
Dave (27:08.904)
Yeah.
Dave (27:22.216)
Thank you.
Dave (27:34.344)
Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Powell (27:34.833)
before we start recording. How has, so I'll tailor this question slightly, how has D &D through your experiences with it changed your life and how are you giving back to D &D in that respect?
Dave (27:52.2)
Right. So, okay, there's probably now I'll go for the deeper answer here. So my father recently passed away and it was one of the things I was reflecting on that my dad introduced me to the Hobbit when I was nine, maybe 10. And that was the spark of my interest in all things fantasy. And then when my brother Alan got basic D &D when I was 11, that kind of just helped me to explode. Right.
And so fantasy RPGs have always been my go -to and D &D has always been my go -to fantasy RPG for good or ill. You know, I'm not precious about what games people play at all. But it is, after all, the elephant in the room as far as the industry is concerned, right? It's the one that's going to be very popular. And when I got to the chance to play 5e on release at Gencon in 2014,
I had read all the review, all the kind of trails as it were from the various blogs and a number of people were referring to it as the greatest sets of D &D. First edition D &D was my kind of favorite version before I got D &D 5e. And 5e has elements of that, but a more robust mechanic system that actually works and stuff like that. And with the 2024 refresh or
5 .5 or whatever you want to refer to it that's coming out later this year. It's essentially still the same game, but they've changed a lot of things. So you'll want to buy the new books as you should because you know that they're a commercial enterprise. Of course, we're going to want you to do that. But D &D, when I started Table Talk Scotland, I kind of felt, well, let's have an offering for D &D that is accessible.
you do not need to be someone who knows how to play the indie to do this. So they have one of the things they created off the back of 5e was the Adventurers League, which is their organized play program. And it's gone through a lot of iterations, some less good than others. It used to be incredibly restrictive about what you could do as a character. But a few years ago, they kind of opened it up so that you could basically create your character normally in whatever method you choose to use and use it.
Dave (30:18.6)
And we built from that, as I say, this year running 10 tables of D &D. And last year we ran nine in six slots. This year it's 10 in seven slots. And it's the Adventurers League is something people can self -publish through. I haven't done that, but I have friends who have. And it was then, right about the beginning of this year,
The Adventures League team, which is some of them are employed by Wizard of the Coast and some of them aren't, kind of said that they were looking for more what are called premier organizers. So what the hell does that mean? So there are people who are given a region of the Forgotten Realms, which is the world where the movie's set, to write exclusive content for that semi -canon, if there is such a thing as canon.
And they also get to write what are called epics. So epics are an unusual chaotic experience. And I played in one at Genco in 2014 and it blew my mind. 120 tables all playing exactly the same scenario with things happening. And because it was 120 tables, they always had klaxons and stuff like that going on.
Adam Powell (31:17.394)
Thank you.
Adam Powell (31:45.874)
Hmm.
Dave (31:45.96)
that would impact every table or some of the tables or whatever. So when we did the first year of TableTall Scotland, it was like, we have to have at least one Epic because we have to have that on a much smaller scale of an experience. So Greg and Bulb, who run that section of the event for us, Greg had never experienced an Epic before until 2018 when he was running it and it freaked him out, but he loved it.
Adam Powell (32:01.842)
Hmm.
Dave (32:15.336)
Because it is literally just 10 or in the case of the end, eight tables all playing exactly the same adventure. But there are timed moments where if certain tables haven't achieved certain objectives, something bad will happen and it will impact all of them. Or if somebody finds a magic item and chooses to destroy it as happened in 2019, certain types of magic just stop working at every table. Stuff like that. So it's and.
Adam Powell (32:31.57)
Hmm.
Dave (32:44.648)
premium organizers get to create these things. They're the only people who can. So I, in my stupidity or whatever, decided to apply for this. Yeah, because they'd appointed, so the teams in the States, there was only two at this stage, Baldwin Games and Gamehole Con, which is a big RPG, only RPG convention, I think it's 6 ,000 people at it. And it's in October, never been. We'd like to, but never been. And those two were the only two.
Adam Powell (32:52.306)
Infinite wisdom.
Dave (33:14.76)
at that stage. Baldwin won all the D &D at GenCon and various other conventions now for Wizards. They then appointed a group called Greasy Snitches, which is a group of designers in the Philippines. And I happen to be friends of Paul Gabat, who is the lead writer for Greasy Snitches, because I interviewed him as part of Albucon. So you go, it's nice how these things all start to come back together. And Paul was kind of saying to me, well, you know,
Adam Powell (33:35.794)
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Dave (33:44.04)
Yeah, you should totally do that type thing. And so I spoke to my friend Rich Green, who writes for Cobalt Press and also writes for the D &D Adventurers magazine that Hachette are putting out. And he also has written for the Eberron Adventurers League series that came out, when the Eberron book came out. And then I spoke to my friend Ian Hawthorne, who happens to be the RPG manager for the UK Games Expo. So that's useful.
very senior within Paisos or Paisos, how do you pronounce that? Organized play network within the UK and has also written for D &D Adventurers League in the past. So the three of us were like, well, will we do this? And yeah, why not? So because I've built up a relationship with the AL team by being a convention organizer, Claire, who's my contact there, immediately went, yeah, absolutely we'll do that. But I'll make it with proper channels, David. And I was like, okay.
Adam Powell (34:33.17)
Hmm.
Dave (34:42.28)
And then they came back and said yes. Now we don't know what region of the Forgotten Realms we're going to have yet. I'm hoping to find out before this year's Table Tops Goal. Well, I mean, it doesn't change anything for what we're doing this year. What it does change is it'll mean that next year there will be Adventurers League at UK Games Expo because I will be making that happen.
Adam Powell (34:55.57)
That would help.
Adam Powell (34:59.89)
Okay fair enough.
Adam Powell (35:10.418)
That was nice.
Dave (35:11.72)
And we're also looking at a couple of other events that we may be able to do something with as well. So I have written stuff for D &D in the past and I've published one module in the DMs Guild, but I've written other stuff in the past for other things. And it's the sort of thing that depending upon if we get the reason we asked for, we could very quickly get some content published.
PlayTested first, obviously, then published. The EPIC, I'm waiting on an invite to a meeting with the AL's EPIC guru, Greg. Far too many Greggs in this world. A completely different Greg from the one in my team. To get together and talk about how exactly you write a multi -table event without it being complete carnage. So that's something that I'm excited about.
Adam Powell (35:53.01)
You
Dave (36:09.704)
But it's very much still, that's more of the passion project for us. Table Toss Scotland is still a passion project, but it's a big behemoth of a thing now. And the D &D part of that is quite small. But that's, you know, but it's an important part of it because that's the core of my hobby.
Adam Powell (36:31.25)
That's amazing. I believe it did. I believe it did. I'm taking that as yes, it did, because that was fantastic. So with Tabletop Scotland, with the D &D Aventuras League, and other commitments, do you get time to actually play a game? Or are you so busy organizing, constructing, theorizing, meeting, and
Dave (36:31.56)
I don't know if that answered your question.
Okay, good. I'll go with that. I'll go.
Adam Powell (36:59.826)
remedying as required the
Dave (37:00.968)
So there's a couple of answers to that. So I get abuse whenever I go to a convention because I don't play games at conventions. Obviously not my own, but I don't play games at Expo. The only convention I play at is Gen Con and even then I don't really play when I'm there, which isn't every year because I can't justify that cost as well. But I do play. Since before the pandemic, I've been running a campaign with friends of 5e on Roll20.
And we've had a few breaks here and there, some of them health enforced, some of them that do the death of my father and things like that. And obviously when things get busy with the convention, it has to go and hiatus for a wee while guys while I'm focusing on this. I run a games club or co -organize a games club in Anstruther with my friend Alan and that's the second and fourth Sunday of the month.
called East Nook Table Talk, which abbreviates to Ent, which is nice for you, or the Rings reference. So it is something that I do, but I don't, I do it in a small scale in the sense that I'll play, I used to have two campaigns on the go at the same time, but I've currently only got one, although it's currently on pause. But the board game club is something that
is pretty much the only time I get a chance to play board games. So it's important to me that I get that opportunity. I also, I haven't mentioned this, but I also organ, I also admin, although my friend Simon ends up actually doing it. I created the RPG Scotland Discord and the D &D Scotland Discord at the start of the pandemic. And there's another big stat here. The D &D Scotland Facebook group used to be called something else.
And I renamed it with permission from Tony who created it. It's just D &D Scotland at the start of the pandemic. And it went from, I don't know, 80 people to currently five and a half thousand people. And it's kind of like, you know, that for me, that represents the interest, at least in D &D. But the RPG Scotland Discord has a game on almost every night of the week.
Dave (39:28.52)
which is just really cool. I mean, I've run some games in it, but I don't do that often enough. I'd like to do that more, but it's a time thing. So, you know, not just the time because of convention thing, I actually have a family, you know, I need to spend time with them, you know.
Adam Powell (39:30.514)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (39:44.717)
All of life's commitments come into play eventually. Which is fair enough. And we have, I mean we've covered a lot. So about you, about Tabletop Scotland, about D &D Adventurers League, about all the things that you haven't mentioned yet as in RPG Scotland, D &D Scotland, Discord and the socials and things like that. So if someone is...
Dave (39:46.184)
Indeed, indeed, indeed.
Adam Powell (40:11.826)
Now excited to get involved with tabletop role -playing games in Scotland. Where can they find you? Where can they find everything you're associated with, please do?
Dave (40:22.056)
So there's a pinned post at the top of my Twitter feed which is a link to the D &D Scotland Facebook and Discords and RPG Scotland Facebook and Discords. But if you literally go to Facebook and type in Dungeons and Dragons Scotland, you'll find that group. If you go to RPG Scotland, you'll find that group. And there's a pinned post on each one of them or a featured post, I think Facebook now call them, which has links to the associated Discords.
What I would suggest though is if you're interested in or you're curious, I'll use that word, about the hobby of role -playing games in general, then just try things. The lesson I learned getting into this hobby is the people you play with are more often than not more than important than the game you're playing.
because you could be playing what is supposed to be the greatest game in the world but if you aren't gelling with the people then that ain't gonna work for you and vice versa you could be playing the most rubbish RPG out there which I won't say my opinion on because they're all a bit pure but you could be playing it with a great group of people and therefore that's great conventions are actually a really good place
Adam Powell (41:31.682)
Maybe maybe mention it afterwards.
Dave (41:44.296)
to try out stuff that you're curious about. I mean, we have all sorts being run at the convention. We've got your staples like your Kolkathoulis and stuff like that, and obviously D &D, but we have all sorts of stuff and quite a lot of indie small press stuff as well, which is cool being run. And it is really just work out thematically what it is that interests you. What type of stories do you want to be part of?
and from there try something. And the elephant in the room that is D &D, you are more likely to get a game of that than you are anything else because more people play that than anything else in the simplest phrase. But there are lots of game clubs in Scotland. There's also a link on both the Facebook groups and both the discords to a Google Sheet that I maintain of all the games clubs in Scotland.
and all the game stores in Scotland as well because that's useful for me as a convention organizer to have that but it's also just really good handy community stuff. So yeah, I'd either identify it, if you want to do it in person I'd find a club or a game store that has RPGs and even if it doesn't sound 100 % like what you think you want to explore, try it anyway.
Adam Powell (42:54.226)
Absolutely.
Dave (43:12.616)
because then you'll at least get a feel for what this hobby is. And from there, you'll work out what you want to do. Don't, unless you're pushed into it by friends, become the game master right at the start. Explore it first. The day of us all being, of all needing to be the person who runs the game really should be long past because of how big the community is now. Although I am an eternal GM, but that's probably self -inflicted.
So yeah, for me, it is just have a think about what it is you want to explore and what's got you curious in the first place. And even if you don't think D &D is the answer, if that's what's available, try it. And you'll either work out that you do or don't like it. That's fine.
Adam Powell (43:55.058)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (44:01.298)
Amazing. Great advice. Thank you so much for that. And again, we've covered so much, but is there anything that we haven't covered? And again, thank you for the effectively the GM tips, got all the new player tips as well. But is there anything we haven't covered you want to bring on now towards the end of the interview? Towards the end of the interview. There you go.
Dave (44:15.432)
Yeah, yeah.
Nothing specific. I mean, the whole thing about this hobby, particularly in the last, I would say, five to 10 years, where that's directly correlated to 5E or not, I don't know. But the diversity of this hobby has grown significantly in that period of time. I mean, statistically, we, and these aren't hard and fast numbers, but we know that roughly 37 % of attendees at the convention identify as female. And it's kind of like,
I, when I was growing up, I didn't see female gamers. That doesn't mean they didn't exist, but I didn't see them. But now a lot of my female friends are, funnily enough, gamers. Maybe that's why they're friends of mine. But it is that sort of thing that you kind of go, don't think this isn't for you. If you think, if you are interested in it, try it. Don't, don't.
Well, hopefully you have a very positive experience by trying it and you find that that's an open door you're pushing on. Because that's what we should be doing as a community for me. We should be having those open doors. So anyway.
Adam Powell (45:37.013)
So thank you. No, no, not at all. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been fascinating to learn more about your good self, the ins and outs of Tabletop Scotland and everything else that we've sort of broached over the course of this interview. I'd love to get you back on in the future, whether it be a specific TTRPG or event -based or
Dave (45:55.496)
That'd be cool.
Dave (46:02.12)
End of the...
Adam Powell (46:02.866)
whatever whatever brings us crosses our paths again in the future if of course you'd be willing to join me
Dave (46:08.584)
Well, I'll think about that.
Adam Powell (46:10.45)
Take it under consideration noted.
So thank you. We've had the link. So please make sure those listening, scroll down, follow those links, support Tabletop Scotland, support your local gaming groups, local gaming stores, and support one another within the community. So thank you so much for your time today, David.
Dave (46:34.248)
Absolutely.
Dave (46:39.368)
No problem at all. It will be a pleasure.
Hello and welcome to Snyder's return a tabletop role play podcast. My guest today brings us the finest of tabletop offerings from the wilderness of the highlands to the wildness of the borderlands. He corrals all to a central location to display play and purchase the wares of a staggering number of vendors with many years of success and many more to come. It is a pleasure to welcome a tabletop Scotland convention director, Mr. David Wright to the show. David, thank you so much for joining me today.
Dave (00:33.896)
Absolutely my pleasure.
Adam Powell (00:36.565)
Well, thank you for joining me. One thing I'm very intrigued about, given various things that we've discussed prior to me hitting record and what you do within the tabletop sphere, is how you yourself got into tabletop role playing games or tabletop gaming in that respect, please.
Dave (00:54.888)
So I'm 51 this year, so you have to go back to the Demon's Distant Past of 1984. My brother Alan, who's three years older than me, got the Redbox Basic D &D set for his birthday. And I think it took about a week for me to annoy him enough to get to play with him and his friends. From there, it was kind of an obvious
kind of move into the other games that GW had the license for at that time. So Golden Heroes, Middle Earth Role Playing and stuff like that. And that was kind of what really brought role playing games into be my kind of primary hobby and now semi permanent hobby in that sense.
Adam Powell (01:47.922)
So with it being a hobby and we don't have to sort of keep harkening back to the year, we don't have to age you every time I bring it up, over the course of your TTRPG experience, what have been some of your favorite games to play and what have been some of your favorite things to play which have been outside of the tabletop role -playing game sphere as well?
Dave (01:52.616)
you
Yes.
Dave (02:10.024)
So RPGs dominated, certainly right up until probably until I moved away from Glasgow, which would have been about 20 years ago. So they played a lot of the Star Wars West End Games RPG, which was a lot of fun. But people tend to find, I find people tend to fall into two camps. They either discover the hobby at university or they discover it beforehand and they stop playing at university because they're
Adam Powell (02:38.77)
you
Dave (02:39.016)
doing other things. I was very much in that second camp. So by the time I got to uni, I had stopped gaming. I was still buying gaming stuff. Right at the height of the D20 glut. Pretty much everything that was coming out back then, I was buying it. And then we moved to the East Nuka Fife to Glasgow and I got rid of everything. And that, to give context, that was about 3000 books and about the same
Adam Powell (02:46.738)
Hmm.
Dave (03:08.552)
well, maybe about a thousand magazines, lots of white dwarfs, lots of dragon magazine, lots of dungeon magazine, lots of all sorts of stuff. Because I was under the illusion of, well, I'm moving to middle of nowhere. I'm not going to be playing games anymore. And then I discovered Orc Edinburgh, which is a club community of role players in Edinburgh. And from there I was like, well, I'll just drive into Edinburgh every other Saturday and play role playing.
Adam Powell (03:22.45)
Hmm.
Dave (03:38.152)
But other games that I've played, I mean, I've played, in fact, Orc introduced me to All Flesh Must Eat and the Eden Studios suite of games. And after that, or more recently, I got into games like FFG's Edge of the Empire, their Star Wars series. And during the pandemic was the first time I ever read Call of Cthulhu. And all that time I had never played, well, I'd played Runequest.
many, many, many years ago, but I'd never played Call of Cthulhu or read Call of Cthulhu. But I decided, well, why haven't I? So I thought I'd better read it. Type thing is one of these games. So yeah, that's... But other than that, I got into board games, again, pretty much no long after we moved here. I established with one of my friends here, a local games club, and we play a lot of board games there.
Adam Powell (04:15.474)
you
Dave (04:34.12)
And that was really where I started to explore board gaming as a hobby and play a lot of a variety of things. I'm not a heavy Euro fan. I'm not a person who likes to hurt my brain when I'm playing them. I want to enjoy them in the sense that it's light. But yeah, I like a game that can be played in 90 minutes and can handle a wide range of players from a board game perspective because it is literally then.
Adam Powell (04:47.122)
Hmm.
Dave (05:03.688)
If it's anything more than that, I would be sitting thinking why am I not playing a role playing game? Because that could take more effort in that sense. So yeah, those are kind of the two main aspects. I dabbled with Magic for a wee while. And I enjoy Magic as a game, but it's never been a game I've felt the need to invest in because it is one that you would probably have to spend a lot of money on to really be part of that scene in that community. But yeah, Wargaming has never been my thing.
Battle tech is a thing that I like but it's a board game because it's on hexes and so you know and but Wargaming's never been my thing at all.
Adam Powell (05:37.362)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (05:42.29)
I mean, you've sort of sample tried and have experience with such a broad range, which I imagine each is sort of potentially influenced the other with respect to your likes, dislikes and such things, as you mentioned. And I'm curious and we haven't sort of actually before I am curious. But before we get on to that, I'm a very curious kind of guy. Where can we find you? Where can we find everything you're associated with, please?
Dave (05:53.96)
Yes, absolutely.
Dave (06:01.192)
Hehehehehe
Dave (06:09.192)
So you can find me on most social media as a second chapter. There's a story behind that, which if you want to cover, we're quite happy to do. It's why it's called a second chapter and everything else from a TableTop Scotland perspective is TableTop Scott. And that's on Macedon, Blue Sky, X slash Twitter, Instagram, threads and obviously Facebook as well. And the website is www .TableTopScotland .co .uk.
Adam Powell (06:17.106)
Please.
Dave (06:38.6)
very kind of universally, kind of using the phrase A second chapter on a variety of social media and Discord for that matter. Yeah, I did. Yeah. So at one point in time, I owned a game store. Not long after we moved here, I had the opportunity to do that. And my wife, my wife agreed that it was a moment of badness, but she let me kind of explore it. The store didn't work out.
Adam Powell (06:48.818)
And you teased us to why?
Dave (07:08.456)
And for a period of time, I lost my hobby, you know, so because things have become products rather than things I enjoyed. So it took me the best part of a year to rediscover it as a hobby, as something that I enjoyed. So I refer to that time as the start of the second chapter, because it's very much the first chapter was when I got into the hobby initially and then stuff like that. But the
the shop or the closure of the shop was the catalyst for the start of the second child.
Adam Powell (07:41.17)
It's a wonderfully tragic story, depending on perspective.
Dave (07:43.912)
Yeah, I mean, it's been a fair few years now since the close, so I think emotionally that trauma has passed me by. But that, it was one of those moments where you're going to go back, I'll use a quite obscure reference. In the film Field of Dreams, there's a reference called, there's a constant life of baseball, right? And it's one of those life's constants. And for me, role playing games and board games,
Primarily role -playing games has always been one of those life's constants. So like Star Wars, as opposed to a degree. So it is almost like that constant needed to either define it again or I had to replace it with something else because I needed something. And that a second chapter start, as it were, was really how I rediscovered my hobby.
Adam Powell (08:34.29)
That's amazing. That's amazing. And you've mentioned there sort of something having to replace it. So not replacing, but building on. When did your hobby start to turn into Tabletop Scotland, as you mentioned there in the links? When did that transition begin?
Dave (08:54.536)
Yeah.
So I used to go, I still do go now, but I used to go to some of the smaller conventions, and I don't mean that as a negative, that exist in Scotland, like compulsion, which is run by Edinburgh University's RPG society. And I then, for my 40th, my wife, for my birthday, gave me, or allowed me to spend the best part of three and a half thousand pounds to go to Gen Con in Indianapolis.
which also happened to coincide with the release of 5e because it was in 2014 and it was one of those things of and if you've never been in tabletop scott and does not emulate this in fact nothing emulates this is for our concern it's just a festival feeling of there's so much going on and it blew me away and it really opened my eyes to what you could do as a community and if you approached it as a festival rather than as a trade show
And then at Expo in 2015, I got quite drunk. And one of my friends in particular would just nudge me on things. And he would know which buttons to press. And the button of, well, why don't, because I was moaning about the lack of anything that I felt was good in Scotland at that time. And he was like, well, why don't you do something about it? I was like, OK, I will. So that was where the kind of idea was born, as it were.
It then took the best part of two years for not just to find a venue, but for a team to solidify around that. There was lots of people who wanted to be involved, but couldn't give the time commitment or whatever it was, because there is a time commitment to something like this. And then we announced it in October 2017 that we were doing it. And we opened the doors that first weekend in September in 2018.
Adam Powell (10:38.29)
Hmm.
Dave (10:54.76)
And yeah, it was quite something.
Adam Powell (10:59.25)
Yeah, definitely. And it's continued on even through the troubled Covid years in a slightly different guise. If you wouldn't...
Dave (11:04.648)
Yeah.
Dave (11:08.456)
Yeah, I mean, from 18 to 19, it doubled in size, floor space wise, and attendance grew by 50%. And then we had the pandemic in 2020. And it was kind of like, I was happy, it's not quite necessarily right. It was an obvious decision not to host the event during that, because that just wasn't going to work for anybody. And the venue wouldn't allow us anyway. But my friend Mark,
Adam Powell (11:28.69)
Hmm.
Dave (11:36.776)
said to me, well, you've got all this free time now, Dave, so why don't you create an online convention? And his son had recovered from leukemia and had been supported by a charity called It's Good to Give, which is a Scottish kind of kids leukemia charity. And he said to me, well, we could raise some money for them. And I was very OK. So I think this is like in the June or maybe the May that he said it to me. And we
and held it in October and we raised just over three grand for it's good to go. And it was nothing. I mean, OK, it was obviously something we raised three grand. Don't get me wrong. I'm not diminishing that. But it was a discord server. That's all it was, right? But we then did it again in 21 and raised just over three thousand three hundred for Penumbra Mental Health Charity. And I think during that period, there was lots of ideas about, well,
Adam Powell (12:13.906)
Yeah, of course, yeah.
Dave (12:34.664)
when Tabletop Scotland comes back, what could it be? And it was at that point that even though I knew we were going to stay in our venue in Perth for at least for another couple of years, I did start to wonder where could we move it if we had to move it or if we wanted to move it for that matter. And then when we came back in 2022, it was very, very busy. I think it was something like 20.
22 % up or something like that in the previous year. And then last year, 23 years or last year in Perth, largely because we were running out of space, but also because the building was under threat of closure because it's council -owned building. And the pressures of the council budgets are under, are probably not lost to anybody in this current climate. So it was the sort of thing that, finding a new venue had to take a certain number of boxes.
and the one that we've chosen. I mean, we went. So we refactored here and there are only four venues in the whole of Scotland that are bigger than the Juris Center, which is a weird stat for Scotland to have one of them is in Aberdeen and two of them in Edinburgh and one of them is in Glasgow. And it was kind of like, right, OK, with all due respect to Aberdeen, I'm not moving it there because I live in the East Nuku Fife and.
Adam Powell (13:48.274)
Hmm.
Dave (14:02.088)
exhibitors were moaning about going as far north as Perth. So you can just imagine how much they would moan about going to Aberdeen. So it became a choice between essentially the SEC and the Royal Helen Centre. And the only thing that the SEC, well, actually the negatives from an SEC perspective, where they would only give me a one year contract, which doesn't work. And they had no real space for RPGs. I'd need to take over a hotel adjacent
Adam Powell (14:05.586)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (14:29.01)
Okay.
Dave (14:32.296)
to do that as well. And it was, it's the sort of thing that when RPGs are my primary hobby, it's a very important, it's a small part of the con, don't get me wrong, it is a small part of the con, but it's a very important part of the con to me. So that was the good work. And the Royal Helen Centre have been excellent to work with. We've had to become a slightly more professional as a team because they are a professional venue.
Adam Powell (14:33.234)
Hmm.
Dave (15:00.136)
And whereas the difference with Perth was they essentially gave me the keys and let me do what I like. Right. And didn't actually give me the keys. But you know, I mean, that's the principle of it's your building for this weekend, Dave, do what you want. And so, yeah, that's kind of and then obviously we're working towards that. We're 65 days away, something like that from our first year in the Royal Highland Centre. Which for context is three times the size.
Adam Powell (15:05.81)
Hmm.
Yes, as the saying goes. Yeah.
Adam Powell (15:22.546)
Hmm.
Dave (15:28.936)
of the space we had in Perth, which is insane, but exciting at the same time. So yeah, that's all going very well. There's been some hiccups over the last couple of months with some personal issues that I've had to deal with. But other than that, it's been going really, really well.
Adam Powell (15:48.37)
So if someone listening has gone, Tabletop Scotland, that sounds great. It's in Edinburgh. I can get there. I can do this. Fundamentally, what is Tabletop Scotland? Just so...
Dave (15:58.792)
So no, it's a really good question because so we are I do have some stats first. So we are the fourth largest based on 2023's attendance gaming convention in the UK. So Expo is obviously at the top by a country mile of everybody else and you've got your corn in Harrogate and Dragon Meat in London. We're also the second largest RPG convention in the UK. Only Expo runs more RPGs than that.
But we're also the largest D &D convention in the UK. We run the most D &D of any convention in the UK. So there's some really weird stats that always sound quite weird when I say them out loud. But what is it? It's a festival of tabletop gaming. And it's open to everybody. We, from inception, wanted to make sure that the event was something that people who knew nothing about the hobby.
and could come and explore it. Or who were relatively new into it, whether that's board gaming, card gaming, role playing, or indeed a little bit of miniature gaming. They could feel comfortable by coming in and exploring the hobby. And our RPG sessions are designed and all of my GMs are reasonably well versed on this, some more than others because they've been with me for every year.
know that the games that we have need to be accessible to new people who have never played a game before, as well as the people who can, who have. But it's as much about that as anything else. And for board gaming, we section off an area of the hall. We couldn't do this last year because we ran out of space and it was very much missed by our attendees called our gateway zone, where we, me and my team, choose like half a dozen games that we think are
very accessible board games are very accessible to people and we have people from our volunteer team demoing that and demoing them so that's in addition to the 120 or so exhibitors we're going to have this year which is 50 more than we had last year which is a bit nuts but it's it is really a place where you can literally come and shop if you want if that's what you want to do you can come and shop and then you can leave but
Dave (18:23.976)
We are open until 11 PM on the Friday and Saturday night. And you can come and game for that entire time. So yeah, it's the word festival. I mean, I referred to Gen Con being a festival and I think of what we are making here as more of a festival experience. It's not a trade show. It's not just a hall full of things to sell to you. Although there is some of that, obviously. But it is the ability for you to
Adam Powell (18:27.218)
Wow.
Adam Powell (18:38.194)
Yeah.
Dave (18:53.736)
Go along with some friends or your family and spend the entire weekend just playing games and immersing yourself in the hobby.
Adam Powell (19:00.306)
That's amazing. And as an avid gamer yourself and with the people behind the curtain, because you know not everything that's coming, but you know some of the vendors and sort of some of the setups that are coming, what are some of the things that you're most excited for this year? Not as the convention director, but as a gamer, what are you excited for?
Dave (19:20.52)
Yeah
Dave (19:27.144)
So pretty much since we started, and there's a few people who have made a reference to this, when I made an announcement on Facebook about this particular company coming, there were a number of companies that I wanted to come. And one of them is Modiphius. You had Chris on a couple episodes ago. And it's because I'm friends with Gary Harper, who used to work at Modiphius, and I'm friends with Lloyd Guyon, who also used to work at Modiphius. And each year, I would go any chance.
And so this year, I suspect because we're right next door to Edinburgh Airport, that's probably an important factor here. It was with much joy that I was like, OK, they're going to come. That's great. And it didn't feel like there was no doubt in my head after having the chat with Daniel, who's the events manager. And he was like, OK, we'll come. We'll have this size booth. We'll do this, that and the other. How else can we get involved? And I was like, OK, this is a
This is actually a proper conversation. And the one thing I've noticed this year when I was at Expo and indeed the run up to Expo this year, a lot of the name companies, I use that phrase loosely, but you'll know what I mean in the sense of it's not, well, it is people like Kiosium. Kiosium want to come and they are here, they're coming. That's great. And Pandemonium Institute are coming over from, well, Evan.
from from a band of monuments coming over from Melbourne for it. They are the people who make blood in the clock tower. And it's kind of like, right, OK, if we hadn't moved to Edinburgh, would that have happened? And that's the thing that excites me. It's the fact that it's not so much justifying the decision to move, but it gives me confidence that I've made the right decision in moving. But the thing that will excite me and it's the thing that excites me every year is when I open the doors.
or not honestly I, but we open the doors and people come in and they look excited. Because it's the sort of thing that I, my team and I can do all the prep in the world. But until you open the doors, you don't actually know. You can see your ticket sales going to the rate that they're going at, but until people walk through the doors, you don't actually know if it's gonna work. And if it isn't gonna work at that stage, it's a bit late.
Dave (21:54.632)
You know, you kind of have to just roll with it at that point. But we now roughly know what we're doing. I'm never going to say that we know what we're doing, but we now roughly know what we're doing. And the feedback. Yeah, I've kind of gone off on a wee tangent here, Adam, apologies. But the feedback that we get from attendees is obviously very important to us. But the feedback that we've got in the relationship we've
Adam Powell (22:04.306)
you
Adam Powell (22:12.786)
It's fine, no no, you carry on, please.
Dave (22:23.56)
relationships we've built with exhibitors over the years has always been really, really positive. And it's not, I mean, a lot of them say that we are their favorite convention. And I kind of take that with a pinch of salt, but then they keep saying it. And I don't know if that's because we look after them. We check in with them. Have you had a drink? Have you had your lunch? When was the last time you went to the toilet? Stuff like that, right?
Because they're working the entire weekend and they need to be able to take their breaks and it's stuff like that that my team and by extension our volunteer team do that as well. They check in with them to make sure everybody's okay. Yeah, I mean it's kind of just the whole thing is what excites me as opposed to the rubbish answer there. There's lots of little aspects to it.
The event schedule is important to me, particularly the RPG schedule. 25 tables, seven slots. So whatever that is, 175 tables multiply that by 5 .5 people. I can't do the maths in my head. But no, but that's roughly how many seats we'll have, which is nuts, frankly, for an event in Scotland, but great as well. That's actually cool.
Adam Powell (23:34.45)
going to try.
Yeah.
Dave (23:45.736)
and various other events. I'll mention one more, my friend Peter, who's a big Arkham Horror, the card game fan. In fact, he runs the second largest podcast for Arkham Horror, the largest being the Spanish one. They're running a 100 player Arkham Horror card game event at the convention and 30 people are coming over from Spain for it, which is again, just a bit nuts, but really cool. And it's knowing that
now we have that space, we can now do things like that, you know? And that just brings an element of a lot more cool things can come. We can do cool stuff type of thing. So yeah, that's... Anyway.
Adam Powell (24:34.706)
Yeah, no need to apologize. Tangents are always good when there's passion involved. So run wild and roll wild. Anyway, so.
Dave (24:44.904)
enemy.
Adam Powell (24:48.562)
So we know what Tabletop Scotland is now. We know where you are close to Edinburgh Airport in the Royal Highland. And I guess the only thing that's kind of missing is the dates. I don't think we've mentioned when it is. We know where it is. We know...
Dave (25:00.04)
Yeah.
Yeah, so we're the sixth to eighth of September and we'll be the first weekend in September for the next two years after this one as well. And that was, as I was referring to the conversations, the SEC, that was very important. Having the same weekend every year is absolutely key for any convention as Expo knows, as GenCon knows, as AirCon and Dragon Meat know and various other cons know. You kind of have to be in the calendar.
And it's knowing that that's when we are is important for a couple of reasons. We obviously can't be in Edinburgh during August because of the French Festival being on. And moving because we were previously almost always at the end of August in Perth. But we had to move date to be in Edinburgh and to get the venue that we wanted, which is fine. It's one of these things that
The schools are already back in Scotland. The number of friends in England that have mourned at me. But the schools are back in England now. And I'm like, yeah, but they've always been back in Scotland. It's really not that big a deal. It's just one of these things. People are going to come if they want to come. That's how they'll do it. And sure enough, they are. But it is that first weekend in September, which is, yeah, it'll still be relatively warm for Scotland. So that should be fine.
Adam Powell (26:29.713)
I like your optimism. I thought we were going into I think it was an
Dave (26:31.24)
It is an air conditioned building though, I will say that, which Perth wasn't, so there you go.
Adam Powell (26:38.625)
All these benefits. I thought we might be going into another field of dreams. Is that if you build it, they all come?
Dave (26:45.128)
If you build it, they will come. Yeah, I don't use that phrase. Other people use that phrase when they talk about it. But no, if you build it, they will come. People will come. That's the phrase. So it is one of these things that there's lots of fields of dreams references that you can apply to this. But then that's fine. I happen to like the film, so that's good. Peace.
Adam Powell (27:06.77)
It's probably going to cost. So with you, you mentioned earlier a connection with D &D when it was released, when you went to Gen Con way back when. And you have a more engaged link with D &D in a manner of speaking. You mentioned.
Dave (27:08.904)
Yeah.
Dave (27:22.216)
Thank you.
Dave (27:34.344)
Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Powell (27:34.833)
before we start recording. How has, so I'll tailor this question slightly, how has D &D through your experiences with it changed your life and how are you giving back to D &D in that respect?
Dave (27:52.2)
Right. So, okay, there's probably now I'll go for the deeper answer here. So my father recently passed away and it was one of the things I was reflecting on that my dad introduced me to the Hobbit when I was nine, maybe 10. And that was the spark of my interest in all things fantasy. And then when my brother Alan got basic D &D when I was 11, that kind of just helped me to explode. Right.
And so fantasy RPGs have always been my go -to and D &D has always been my go -to fantasy RPG for good or ill. You know, I'm not precious about what games people play at all. But it is, after all, the elephant in the room as far as the industry is concerned, right? It's the one that's going to be very popular. And when I got to the chance to play 5e on release at Gencon in 2014,
I had read all the review, all the kind of trails as it were from the various blogs and a number of people were referring to it as the greatest sets of D &D. First edition D &D was my kind of favorite version before I got D &D 5e. And 5e has elements of that, but a more robust mechanic system that actually works and stuff like that. And with the 2024 refresh or
5 .5 or whatever you want to refer to it that's coming out later this year. It's essentially still the same game, but they've changed a lot of things. So you'll want to buy the new books as you should because you know that they're a commercial enterprise. Of course, we're going to want you to do that. But D &D, when I started Table Talk Scotland, I kind of felt, well, let's have an offering for D &D that is accessible.
you do not need to be someone who knows how to play the indie to do this. So they have one of the things they created off the back of 5e was the Adventurers League, which is their organized play program. And it's gone through a lot of iterations, some less good than others. It used to be incredibly restrictive about what you could do as a character. But a few years ago, they kind of opened it up so that you could basically create your character normally in whatever method you choose to use and use it.
Dave (30:18.6)
And we built from that, as I say, this year running 10 tables of D &D. And last year we ran nine in six slots. This year it's 10 in seven slots. And it's the Adventurers League is something people can self -publish through. I haven't done that, but I have friends who have. And it was then, right about the beginning of this year,
The Adventures League team, which is some of them are employed by Wizard of the Coast and some of them aren't, kind of said that they were looking for more what are called premier organizers. So what the hell does that mean? So there are people who are given a region of the Forgotten Realms, which is the world where the movie's set, to write exclusive content for that semi -canon, if there is such a thing as canon.
And they also get to write what are called epics. So epics are an unusual chaotic experience. And I played in one at Genco in 2014 and it blew my mind. 120 tables all playing exactly the same scenario with things happening. And because it was 120 tables, they always had klaxons and stuff like that going on.
Adam Powell (31:17.394)
Thank you.
Adam Powell (31:45.874)
Hmm.
Dave (31:45.96)
that would impact every table or some of the tables or whatever. So when we did the first year of TableTall Scotland, it was like, we have to have at least one Epic because we have to have that on a much smaller scale of an experience. So Greg and Bulb, who run that section of the event for us, Greg had never experienced an Epic before until 2018 when he was running it and it freaked him out, but he loved it.
Adam Powell (32:01.842)
Hmm.
Dave (32:15.336)
Because it is literally just 10 or in the case of the end, eight tables all playing exactly the same adventure. But there are timed moments where if certain tables haven't achieved certain objectives, something bad will happen and it will impact all of them. Or if somebody finds a magic item and chooses to destroy it as happened in 2019, certain types of magic just stop working at every table. Stuff like that. So it's and.
Adam Powell (32:31.57)
Hmm.
Dave (32:44.648)
premium organizers get to create these things. They're the only people who can. So I, in my stupidity or whatever, decided to apply for this. Yeah, because they'd appointed, so the teams in the States, there was only two at this stage, Baldwin Games and Gamehole Con, which is a big RPG, only RPG convention, I think it's 6 ,000 people at it. And it's in October, never been. We'd like to, but never been. And those two were the only two.
Adam Powell (32:52.306)
Infinite wisdom.
Dave (33:14.76)
at that stage. Baldwin won all the D &D at GenCon and various other conventions now for Wizards. They then appointed a group called Greasy Snitches, which is a group of designers in the Philippines. And I happen to be friends of Paul Gabat, who is the lead writer for Greasy Snitches, because I interviewed him as part of Albucon. So you go, it's nice how these things all start to come back together. And Paul was kind of saying to me, well, you know,
Adam Powell (33:35.794)
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Dave (33:44.04)
Yeah, you should totally do that type thing. And so I spoke to my friend Rich Green, who writes for Cobalt Press and also writes for the D &D Adventurers magazine that Hachette are putting out. And he also has written for the Eberron Adventurers League series that came out, when the Eberron book came out. And then I spoke to my friend Ian Hawthorne, who happens to be the RPG manager for the UK Games Expo. So that's useful.
very senior within Paisos or Paisos, how do you pronounce that? Organized play network within the UK and has also written for D &D Adventurers League in the past. So the three of us were like, well, will we do this? And yeah, why not? So because I've built up a relationship with the AL team by being a convention organizer, Claire, who's my contact there, immediately went, yeah, absolutely we'll do that. But I'll make it with proper channels, David. And I was like, okay.
Adam Powell (34:33.17)
Hmm.
Dave (34:42.28)
And then they came back and said yes. Now we don't know what region of the Forgotten Realms we're going to have yet. I'm hoping to find out before this year's Table Tops Goal. Well, I mean, it doesn't change anything for what we're doing this year. What it does change is it'll mean that next year there will be Adventurers League at UK Games Expo because I will be making that happen.
Adam Powell (34:55.57)
That would help.
Adam Powell (34:59.89)
Okay fair enough.
Adam Powell (35:10.418)
That was nice.
Dave (35:11.72)
And we're also looking at a couple of other events that we may be able to do something with as well. So I have written stuff for D &D in the past and I've published one module in the DMs Guild, but I've written other stuff in the past for other things. And it's the sort of thing that depending upon if we get the reason we asked for, we could very quickly get some content published.
PlayTested first, obviously, then published. The EPIC, I'm waiting on an invite to a meeting with the AL's EPIC guru, Greg. Far too many Greggs in this world. A completely different Greg from the one in my team. To get together and talk about how exactly you write a multi -table event without it being complete carnage. So that's something that I'm excited about.
Adam Powell (35:53.01)
You
Dave (36:09.704)
But it's very much still, that's more of the passion project for us. Table Toss Scotland is still a passion project, but it's a big behemoth of a thing now. And the D &D part of that is quite small. But that's, you know, but it's an important part of it because that's the core of my hobby.
Adam Powell (36:31.25)
That's amazing. I believe it did. I believe it did. I'm taking that as yes, it did, because that was fantastic. So with Tabletop Scotland, with the D &D Aventuras League, and other commitments, do you get time to actually play a game? Or are you so busy organizing, constructing, theorizing, meeting, and
Dave (36:31.56)
I don't know if that answered your question.
Okay, good. I'll go with that. I'll go.
Adam Powell (36:59.826)
remedying as required the
Dave (37:00.968)
So there's a couple of answers to that. So I get abuse whenever I go to a convention because I don't play games at conventions. Obviously not my own, but I don't play games at Expo. The only convention I play at is Gen Con and even then I don't really play when I'm there, which isn't every year because I can't justify that cost as well. But I do play. Since before the pandemic, I've been running a campaign with friends of 5e on Roll20.
And we've had a few breaks here and there, some of them health enforced, some of them that do the death of my father and things like that. And obviously when things get busy with the convention, it has to go and hiatus for a wee while guys while I'm focusing on this. I run a games club or co -organize a games club in Anstruther with my friend Alan and that's the second and fourth Sunday of the month.
called East Nook Table Talk, which abbreviates to Ent, which is nice for you, or the Rings reference. So it is something that I do, but I don't, I do it in a small scale in the sense that I'll play, I used to have two campaigns on the go at the same time, but I've currently only got one, although it's currently on pause. But the board game club is something that
is pretty much the only time I get a chance to play board games. So it's important to me that I get that opportunity. I also, I haven't mentioned this, but I also organ, I also admin, although my friend Simon ends up actually doing it. I created the RPG Scotland Discord and the D &D Scotland Discord at the start of the pandemic. And there's another big stat here. The D &D Scotland Facebook group used to be called something else.
And I renamed it with permission from Tony who created it. It's just D &D Scotland at the start of the pandemic. And it went from, I don't know, 80 people to currently five and a half thousand people. And it's kind of like, you know, that for me, that represents the interest, at least in D &D. But the RPG Scotland Discord has a game on almost every night of the week.
Dave (39:28.52)
which is just really cool. I mean, I've run some games in it, but I don't do that often enough. I'd like to do that more, but it's a time thing. So, you know, not just the time because of convention thing, I actually have a family, you know, I need to spend time with them, you know.
Adam Powell (39:30.514)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (39:44.717)
All of life's commitments come into play eventually. Which is fair enough. And we have, I mean we've covered a lot. So about you, about Tabletop Scotland, about D &D Adventurers League, about all the things that you haven't mentioned yet as in RPG Scotland, D &D Scotland, Discord and the socials and things like that. So if someone is...
Dave (39:46.184)
Indeed, indeed, indeed.
Adam Powell (40:11.826)
Now excited to get involved with tabletop role -playing games in Scotland. Where can they find you? Where can they find everything you're associated with, please do?
Dave (40:22.056)
So there's a pinned post at the top of my Twitter feed which is a link to the D &D Scotland Facebook and Discords and RPG Scotland Facebook and Discords. But if you literally go to Facebook and type in Dungeons and Dragons Scotland, you'll find that group. If you go to RPG Scotland, you'll find that group. And there's a pinned post on each one of them or a featured post, I think Facebook now call them, which has links to the associated Discords.
What I would suggest though is if you're interested in or you're curious, I'll use that word, about the hobby of role -playing games in general, then just try things. The lesson I learned getting into this hobby is the people you play with are more often than not more than important than the game you're playing.
because you could be playing what is supposed to be the greatest game in the world but if you aren't gelling with the people then that ain't gonna work for you and vice versa you could be playing the most rubbish RPG out there which I won't say my opinion on because they're all a bit pure but you could be playing it with a great group of people and therefore that's great conventions are actually a really good place
Adam Powell (41:31.682)
Maybe maybe mention it afterwards.
Dave (41:44.296)
to try out stuff that you're curious about. I mean, we have all sorts being run at the convention. We've got your staples like your Kolkathoulis and stuff like that, and obviously D &D, but we have all sorts of stuff and quite a lot of indie small press stuff as well, which is cool being run. And it is really just work out thematically what it is that interests you. What type of stories do you want to be part of?
and from there try something. And the elephant in the room that is D &D, you are more likely to get a game of that than you are anything else because more people play that than anything else in the simplest phrase. But there are lots of game clubs in Scotland. There's also a link on both the Facebook groups and both the discords to a Google Sheet that I maintain of all the games clubs in Scotland.
and all the game stores in Scotland as well because that's useful for me as a convention organizer to have that but it's also just really good handy community stuff. So yeah, I'd either identify it, if you want to do it in person I'd find a club or a game store that has RPGs and even if it doesn't sound 100 % like what you think you want to explore, try it anyway.
Adam Powell (42:54.226)
Absolutely.
Dave (43:12.616)
because then you'll at least get a feel for what this hobby is. And from there, you'll work out what you want to do. Don't, unless you're pushed into it by friends, become the game master right at the start. Explore it first. The day of us all being, of all needing to be the person who runs the game really should be long past because of how big the community is now. Although I am an eternal GM, but that's probably self -inflicted.
So yeah, for me, it is just have a think about what it is you want to explore and what's got you curious in the first place. And even if you don't think D &D is the answer, if that's what's available, try it. And you'll either work out that you do or don't like it. That's fine.
Adam Powell (43:55.058)
Hmm.
Adam Powell (44:01.298)
Amazing. Great advice. Thank you so much for that. And again, we've covered so much, but is there anything that we haven't covered? And again, thank you for the effectively the GM tips, got all the new player tips as well. But is there anything we haven't covered you want to bring on now towards the end of the interview? Towards the end of the interview. There you go.
Dave (44:15.432)
Yeah, yeah.
Nothing specific. I mean, the whole thing about this hobby, particularly in the last, I would say, five to 10 years, where that's directly correlated to 5E or not, I don't know. But the diversity of this hobby has grown significantly in that period of time. I mean, statistically, we, and these aren't hard and fast numbers, but we know that roughly 37 % of attendees at the convention identify as female. And it's kind of like,
I, when I was growing up, I didn't see female gamers. That doesn't mean they didn't exist, but I didn't see them. But now a lot of my female friends are, funnily enough, gamers. Maybe that's why they're friends of mine. But it is that sort of thing that you kind of go, don't think this isn't for you. If you think, if you are interested in it, try it. Don't, don't.
Well, hopefully you have a very positive experience by trying it and you find that that's an open door you're pushing on. Because that's what we should be doing as a community for me. We should be having those open doors. So anyway.
Adam Powell (45:37.013)
So thank you. No, no, not at all. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been fascinating to learn more about your good self, the ins and outs of Tabletop Scotland and everything else that we've sort of broached over the course of this interview. I'd love to get you back on in the future, whether it be a specific TTRPG or event -based or
Dave (45:55.496)
That'd be cool.
Dave (46:02.12)
End of the...
Adam Powell (46:02.866)
whatever whatever brings us crosses our paths again in the future if of course you'd be willing to join me
Dave (46:08.584)
Well, I'll think about that.
Adam Powell (46:10.45)
Take it under consideration noted.
So thank you. We've had the link. So please make sure those listening, scroll down, follow those links, support Tabletop Scotland, support your local gaming groups, local gaming stores, and support one another within the community. So thank you so much for your time today, David.
Dave (46:34.248)
Absolutely.
Dave (46:39.368)
No problem at all. It will be a pleasure.
