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Hi Outsourcins, and welcome to the Inside Outsource Podcast.
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Proudly brought to you by Outsource Financial.
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I'm your host, Janille Gibson, and I'm excited to be bringing you these conversations designed to support, inspire, and elevate you in your brokering journey.
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Welcome to another episode of Inside Outsource.
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I'm really excited about today's conversation because we're talking about some of the biggest opportunities and challenges facing brokers right now.
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And that's technology.
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We've got AI, cybersecurity, and what does all of that mean for the future of our industry?
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So joining me is Heather Gallagher, the head of customer success at SalesTricker.
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Heather has worked alongside brokers for so many years, helping them improve their businesses, help them embrace change, and make better use of technology.
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Heather, welcome to Insight Outsource.
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Tell us about your journey into financial services and what led you through to SalesTricker.
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Oh, geez, we've got to go back a long way.
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I actually was in recruitment and one of the major banks was my client.
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I was actually recruiting for a lending role in a branch.
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And the state manager for the bank at the time said, the problem is I don't want any of these candidates.
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I want you.
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I said, I don't know anything about lending.
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He said, You have all the other skills.
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I can insert swear word here, teach you that.
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And that's how I got into banking and financial services and found my home.
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And for the past 15 years, probably now, I've been in that third party space working for banks, spent a long time working for outsource, so still feels like home a lot of the time.
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And then just about two years ago, an opportunity came up for a new challenge.
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And that was joining Sales Tracker as the head of customer success.
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I always say that I'm the non-techie at a tech company and I don't speak technology, I speak broker.
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And I think that was a really exciting opportunity.
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And I welcome the chance that Dalimore gave me to do this.
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Wow.
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So much influence and experience from so many different facets of the financial industry.
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So thinking about that, what do you feel has been the biggest challenge that you've seen within the industry over the past decade?
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Gee, there's been so many.
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When I think about all the things that we've gone through, if I think back about the challenges, there's two.
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And one of the biggest challenges is what we're going through right now.
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And I'll come to that one in a minute.
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But one of the biggest challenges and also the biggest opportunity is actually when COVID hit.
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Pre-COVID, you were still getting documents wet signed by a client and you were going to their house or they were coming to your office.
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And that happened, that shift to we're going to interact on screen happened literally within a matter of two or three weeks.
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And I think that was a big change and a big shift for brokers.
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Not just from a how I'm going to learn to use technology point of view, but also just from a human interaction point of view.
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We went from seeing five or 10 people today for those soul man operators to maybe only see themselves and their families every day.
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And I was really lucky because I was working at Outsource at the time and we use Sales Tracker.
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And Dallabor was a visionary and was able to see and implement a lot of tools like our interview mode and the digital signing and all of these things that we brought in to assist brokers.
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And I think that was the part of the first real steps in this journey to thinking about how can a CRM platform like Sales Tracker assist brokers in more than just writing alone, right?
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But the other really big challenge over the last 10 years is what's happening right now, and it which is what we're going to be talking about today.
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It is AI, it is cyber, it is not just that technology is changing because technology has always changed.
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But the speed at which things are changing right now is really challenging for everybody.
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And I think that this may be one of the biggest challenges.
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I can remember those days myself, absolutely.
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I think that it did propel our use of technology forward decades within such a short amount of time.
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Heather, you've always been super passionate about helping brokers become business owners.
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What do the most successful brokers do that little bit differently?
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So I think when I look at successful businesses, one thing they have in common is they spend time, and it's cliche, working on their business, not in their business.
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And it's a challenge.
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The successful ones make that transition from I'm a mortgage broker to I'm a business owner.
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And they use technology where it's warranted to save them time, speed things up, and allow them more time with their clients.
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And I think that's the real difference.
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So we've just been talking about the evolution of technology and how it's changed and evolved dramatically, especially since 2020 when we all locked down.
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So how would you describe the current state of the technology adoption within the specifics of our industry?
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So one of the things I think that people think about a lot is oh, how is AI going to change the way a broker works?
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The first thing I want to be really clear about is AI is not something that's coming to brokering.
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It's already here.
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So to give you an idea and some stats around this, we did an AI webinar with a panel of experts a couple of months ago, and I ran some polls.
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And when I talked to brokers about do they believe AI is essential to the future of their business, 45% said they're already using it, and 53% are actively exploring how they can use it in their business.
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So brokers are absolutely embracing the idea of AI and that kind of technology piece in there.
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But the thing that I want to, and you'll hear this as a common theme in everything that I say is that AI is really exciting for brokers.
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But what is exciting for me is it doesn't replace what a broker does and their core value to the consumer.
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AI is taking away the busy work, the low value tasks, the things that they don't need to be doing so that they can focus on the things that generate activity that raises the value of their business.
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When I look at how brokers are using it, it's things like that old-fashioned way of emailing 10 BDMs or ringing up hotlines and waiting on hold to do product and lender research and understanding the gray areas of policy.
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It's that help with compliance.
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It's summarizing your information into clear notes that are easy to read.
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It's doing things that it's like scanning documents, which is not AI, but which is like OCR optical scanning of documents to populate fields.
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It's things that are repetitive and low value.
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And that's where I think the real play for brokers is when it comes to this kind of technology.
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And look, that's really how we've approached AI at Sales Tracker as well.
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We've introduced tools like the compliance AI and policy AI.
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These are designed for those things that brokers said we would like tools to make this faster and frictionless as much as possible for us.
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But all of these things are designed to not take the broker out of the process.
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It's to get them the information faster.
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AI should always be the assistant.
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AI should never be the decision maker, as we say.
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And let's be honest, using AI still needs that human intervention because if we start thinking about the risks that are involved, often I talk about hallucinations and the output of AI can sometimes be wrong.
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Organizations like SalesTricker.
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What are you doing to ensure that there is the balance of innovation?
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What is your viewpoint around that responsible use of AI to ensure that you maintain that compliance and especially the data security?
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Because let's be honest, our brokers have so much access to very sensitive information.
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And often I think brokers may become complacent in what they are actually using AI for and potentially inadvertently, without even thinking, create data risks, create privacy breaches.
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What are those practical things that brokers can do whilst using AI but still keeping things safe?
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So important.
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And I guess this is one of those things that keeps me up thinking about data security and consumer data protection.
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We made a very deliberate decision at Sales Tracker that we will not share personally identifiable information with our AI tools.
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We've got a lot more technology behind how and what we do that.
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But we think AI is very useful, but we are skeptical and not trusting of it.
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So what do we mean by that?
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If you deep dive into the privacy policies of all of the large AI companies that own all of the engines that everybody uses, you will see in there things like we won't sell your data, et cetera.
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But they do say they share it with their partners and may share it with their partners.
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And who are the largest partners of any of these people?
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It's people like Google and Amazon and Meta and Microsoft.
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I don't know where the future of AI is going to go with these big companies who have invested billions of dollars.
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I don't know how they're going to make the money back on$30 subscriptions, right?
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So we're very skeptical about it.
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If you've been following the news over the last few weeks, there have been a couple of instances where AI tools, particularly these new generation AI tools, have escaped the sandboxes, as they said, and gone rogue and done things they weren't supposed to.
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So we have been very deliberate and we've done that in ways that we direct our AI engines, say, to look at one particular field, like the first name of a client.
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It will look at what the occupation is.
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It will look at what the street name is.
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So if you said it was Heather, head of customer success, Smith Street, which is not my real street name, that's not personally identifiable information.
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We're not giving the full name.
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We're not giving the date of birth.
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We're not giving the employer name.
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We're not giving their full street address.
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We might give a credit score, but we're not giving it access to their credit report.
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That is the hill that we will die on as we will not share personal identifiable information with AI tools.
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I think that that is a really good starting point for brokers when they think about using AI.
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I'm on a lot of broker Facebook groups, for example.
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And there's lots of people with questions about what's the best way to do this or how I'm spending so much time on these financials or I'm doing this.
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And every single time somebody pops a comment in, oh, I chucked it in my chat GPT, I chucked it in my cloud, I chucked it in my co-pilot.
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And chucking client financials into these things, you've just given your AI tool all of your clients' most trusted information.
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So I think that's one thing to think about.
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And then the other piece about this is that there are so many shiny new toys out there.
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Every single day there's somebody going, oh, we can sell you this AI tool that will do this and this one that does this and this one that does this.
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And brokers are jumping at everything.
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First of all, there's cost involved in all of it, but they're not thinking through who is that company, what is their security?
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And so I think if brokers can use AI tools without putting personally identifiable information into it, and it makes sense, I think it's worth exploring, but be cautious.
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I'm a big fan of Mr.
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and Mrs.
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X.
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There's no personal identical data in there, and being able to then transfer and transpose that information to what and where is appropriate.
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So great tangible tips that you provide us.
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And thank you so much, Heather.
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Brilliant.
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So let's think about for listeners who may not have seen the latest developments within SalesTricker, what are you most excited about now?
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There's so many things that we've just recently done from an AI point of view, but also just from a system improvement point of view.
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Compliance AI, which is the tool that provides you with very good comprehensive compliance notes designed to meet Essex requirements.
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That is one of the best things I've ever seen.
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We have also launched the translate AI.
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And I think a lot of people are not paying attention to this and not thinking about it in the right way.
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When you are trying to communicate with maybe a client who English is not their first language, and you need to get an important point across.
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Like let's say you're doing a fixed rate loan and you need to talk about fixed rate lock-in and make sure they really understand what happens if they don't accept it.
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You can put that message in English and you never know for sure if they really get it.
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But with translate AI, you can actually put it in their native language to ensure they get it.
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You can see the note in both English and in their native language so that from a compliance point of view, everybody can see what was said.
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It allows people in both those circumstances to write more, to be more specific, and have really good files in ways that maybe they couldn't before.
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I think it's a real sleeper that doesn't get enough attention.
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The other one, of course, is policy AI, which is our partnership with Scenario that gives you really good policy advice.
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In our next deployment in September, Scenario has made some changes to the way their screens work, which makes it a little bit easier for brokers to even follow a bouncing ball and follow a process.
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So I'm very excited about that.
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And then the other one, which we'll be launching with a lot of our partners soon, is the audit AI.
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So this is the one I'm really excited about for brokers.
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As we know, the kind of audit process now really is historical data.
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You're auditing things that happened two, three, four, five, six months ago.
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Files that are done, files are complete.
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And if there is a problem, you're finding out about it months later.
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There's no corrective action time.
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And so with audit AI, this will in real time, before you push the deal through to apply online, did you compare enough products?
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Did you offer the lowest cost solution?
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Do you have file notes that explain why what the client said were their priorities is met by this loan?
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If you combine compliance AI to do your notes, which you have to read and check because AI hallucinates, and then you run audit AI on your file to see any gaps you missed.
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And that one of the things I always say is a client might do an online fact-find.
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And when they get to the priorities thing, they say, I don't want a fixed rate loan.
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And so then the broker meets with them and has a conversation with them and talks about rates and their concerns about the market.
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And the client says, you know what, actually, I do want a fixed rate.
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So the broker on the product compare screen does a fixed rate loan, hits all the way through to the end, but never goes back and changes that requirement because they forgot to.
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This is going to pick up that kind of stuff.
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This is, and this is the kind of stuff that the regulators are interested in.
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The client said they didn't want this and you gave them this product.
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Why did you do it?
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Without commentary, without changing it.
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And so it really is a tool for the broker to fix things in the moment.
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And it also allows the aggregators to get real-time data on who maybe is struggling, who maybe is missing something in their process and provide coaching that's meaningful and relevant, and then also be able to focus on people who maybe need more help.
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The other place this is really helpful is not just to the aggregator and the individual broker.
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But if you are a brokerage who say has eight or 10 brokers working under you, as the head broker in that group, you can get access to that data on how everybody's performing.
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Because as we know, the way it works in the industry now, if one person in a business gets in trouble for something, the whole business can get into trouble.
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So it is a risk mitigant for those larger brokerages to ensure as well.
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And so we're really excited about that.
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And we are looking at bringing in some changes to how that can be set up at the aggregator level to give a little bit more flexibility.
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One of the other things we're looking at doing, and this is not AI, but this is using technology and it is that OCR functionality.
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It's the ability to scan a driver's license, a passport, a Medicare card, a pay slip, whatever, and pre-fill in the data from the document into the deal.
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That's not AI.
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We're not giving AI tools.
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That's a specific piece of technology.
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We're looking at setting that up.
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So less keying in boxes, less data to fill in.
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And then ultimately where we're going is with open banking technology.
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And I'm not willing to talk about who the providers are that we're talking to.
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Imagine this, Tanil.
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You are my client.
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I send you a client portal.
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You accept the credit guide and privacy.
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As soon as you do that, it can run within the portal, run an Equifax inquiry, and we'll pre-populate information from Equifax into the deal.
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You can run an Equifax verification exchange, validate and pre-populate income.
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And you can have an open banking solution that takes care of filling in some assets and liabilities and living expenses and all of that.
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And so that when you as the client get to the portal, you're checking information.
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And maybe you have less than half, probably less than half of what you'd have to fill in now.
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Broker doesn't have to collect as many documents up front.
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People aren't having to validate the information.
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It's a completely different world.
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And that's where we're headed.
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Probably sooner than you think.
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It'd be much more difficult to fraudulently provide all of that information and that details.
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It's really going to help weed out some of those, you know, if they just use their powers for good instead of evil.
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And of those mass fraudulent applications that, you know, let's not be naive.
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It is a real shift to brokers working with validated data, not give me your pay slips and your bank statements, and I need to assess it and I need to analyze it and I need to ring your employer and I need to do this and I need to check this and I need to do that.
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But getting factual verified data.
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Now imagine you're a business with six brokers and maybe eight or 10 support staff, and both support staff are doing all that validation work and checking it and verifying it and doing all of that.
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Imagine if one or two of those resources didn't need to be doing that.
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They could be spending time on client retention phone calls and loan follow-ups and client nurturing post-settlement to generate more opportunities, more referrals.
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We're not ever saying that brokers are going to need less people.
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I just think they'll be doing different jobs and maybe slightly more fulfilling jobs.
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That's where I was going to lead.
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It's so much more fulfilling, actually, doing that connection piece than rather than effectively just being a data processor and just doing the math and checking the boxes and it provide that so much greater satisfaction in what they're doing.
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And is it getting that next investment or helping my business to grow in a way that maybe I've never had the opportunity to do that before?
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Not only your brokerage business, but also the client's business as well.
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Success breeds success.
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It's about finding that opportunity to help your client that little bit further.
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I'm always a very big fan of diversification and really being able to provide solutions to clients' problems and solutions to bridge that gap to where they are now, to where they want to be.
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And how exciting is it to be part of that journey?
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Absolutely.
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I want to share a stat with you because I think you'll find this very interesting.
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And this is why I think it's really important for brokers to be cautious with AI, to be mindful of who they're partnering with.
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So we've done a couple of really big sessions over the last few months with external providers.
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We did one on AI and recently did one on cyber and data security.
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And let me share this fact with you.
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Eight percent of the overall respondents said they were either already using AI or exploring it in our AI webinar.
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But when we did our cybersecurity webinar, one of the questions we asked was, Do you feel like you are completely on top of your cybersecurity process and policy in your business?
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Only 13% of them said they feel like they're on top of their cybersecurity.
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Now, the disconnect for me there is if lots of people are using AI and almost everybody's using it to some degree, are they mindful about how they're using it?
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Are they using it responsibly?
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If they're feeling like they're not really completely aware and on top of cybersecurity.
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And cybersecurity is not, I'm not even talking about sales tracker.
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I'm talking about their emails, their drives, what's in their text messages, what's on their phone, do they lock their computer, a million other things.
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We spend a lot of time at Sales Tracker thinking about cybersecurity and data security because we know what's in the system.
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It's one of the reasons that we moved to mandatory MFA in 2.0.
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It was always recommended in one, but we didn't enforce it.
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Shout out to Outsource, who had the highest percentage of brokers who had their MFA on in V1.
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We really appreciate that.
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But that is mandatory in V2.
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And that to me is not a yay feature.
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That's a hygiene come to work feature when you think about that.
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And my question for all of those people who are resisting that do you have MFA on your email?
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Do you have it on your drive?
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Do like all your other systems that you use, are you using some kind of protection?
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There's so many things.
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If you want me to at some point, I can send you the link to that webinar.
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I'm welcome for you to share that with your listeners as well.
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It's aggregator agnostic, and it's it's really important for brokers to be thinking about all of that.
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Like that's a whole nother kind of two-hour conversation.
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But I just think the technology adoption is happening so fast that people aren't putting the guardrails up when they're thinking about they're just excited.
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What would be your number one tip in relation to protecting themselves in relation to that cybersecurity?
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What's one adoption that they can start from today?
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Get them moving forward with their cybersecurity.
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I will give a disclaimer.
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I am not a qualified cyber data security expert.
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There are people out there who are.
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But there are a couple of things that I would suggest that brokers are doing.
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Using password managers, not just the some things come to your email and all that.
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And the other one I would suggest is do not save anything in your browser password saving system.
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And let me explain why.
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So I use Chrome, and whenever you log into anything, Chrome says, Do you want to save your password?
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Great.
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No, don't do it.
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And here's why.
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Let's say I log on to my Gmail, work Gmail on my computer.
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I save the password in there.
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And for some reason, I then decide to log into my personal Gmail on the same computer.
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When you do that, it syncs passwords across multiple devices.
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So password managers for everything.
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My password manager on my work computer has everything saved.
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The other one I would say is slow down.
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It's the email thing.
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That comes to you, do they make sense?
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Is it coming from a right person?
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Does it look like it makes sense?
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And I'll give an example of one that I got a few weeks ago.
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I got this email from a broker.
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I get emails from brokers all the time.
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It's not anybody whose name I recognize, but it was here's a link to the data you requested, and it was a drive link, right?
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I didn't click on it.
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I'm like, why is this person I don't know sending me something?
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So question, right?
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I took a screenshot, I deleted it, rang the broker, he didn't answer.
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I rang his aggregator as well.
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I looked up the broker's actual email address, didn't respond to the email, sent him an email, and I got this auto reply that said, the link I sent you is correct, please click on it.
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I'm like, I'm not clicking on that.
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The broker rang me a number of hours later and just said, yes, his email had been compromised.
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People click on stuff.
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People don't think about it.
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If you're getting an email from somebody that is a person you expect, especially on your phones, where you don't necessarily see the full email address, always look at where it comes from.
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I think that's one of the things because it's a really good way to get malware on your computer and for people to get access to your inbox.
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Send emails to people saying, change my payment here, here's my new bank account for that payment that you owe me.
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It can just mess your business up.
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I think those are a couple of the solutions.
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What, Heather, would you say would be that one technology tool that you couldn't live without?
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Besides sales tracker?
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Of course.
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There's so many things that I do use.
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Time saving wise, whichever, and I will be agnostic as to which one.
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I do have an AI tool that I use.
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I don't put any identifiable information into it.
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But what I really like to do with it is say to it, this is what I need to do.
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Can you tell me how I need to do this?
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Or I use it a lot for communications with you guys.
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I'll put my dot points in and say, These are the things I want to say to my aggregator partners.
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Can you please put it together?
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I use it a lot for that.
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I don't put person identifiable information for it.
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That's one tool that I really like.
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And then the other thing that actually, when it comes to technology, is having good knowledge of how your CRM actually works.
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They've all got this tool, but I would say only 30 to 40% of our users, if I'm being generous, are maximizing it.
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What excites you most about the future of broking?
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I think the thing that excites me the most when we think about where technology is taking our industry is that brokers are going to have more time to have meaningful conversations and build stronger relationships with their clients.
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They're going to really be able to be trusted advisors.
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And as I always say, people choose people every day.
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And your client has chosen you.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.559
So one last question, Heather.
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If every broker listening today walked away remembering just one thing about technology, AI, and the future of our industry, what would you want that message to be?
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I think if they had to walk away with one message, this is going to loop back to just who I am intrinsically.
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Educate yourself.
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Educate yourself about the tools you already have available to you.
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Educate yourself about the efficiencies you have available to you.
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And educate yourself about the other things you're looking to use.
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I had some broker come to us the other day wanting to get an API key to integrate something into the system, which essentially does exactly what compliance AI does, but it's going to require him to put all his data somewhere else.
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And I just said, you know, we already have this, right?
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It's like, oh, I didn't know that's what it did.
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So I know outsource's mantra is education is empowerment.
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And I live and breathe that, and I always have.
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And as Tanya says, once an outsourcing, always an outsourcing.
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You can't take education as empowerment out of, but I think that's going to be the key for brokers is to educate yourself, educate yourself about your technology.
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And as you know, Tanil, one of the big shifts that's happened at Sales Chakra over the last six, eight months is that we do a lot of public education now.
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We recognize that you, as our partners, have so many competing priorities.
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You've got lenders and you've got compliance and you've got commission systems and all these things that you have to teach and train a broker on.
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So we have really taken on board offering lots of public education.
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And outsource members are actually really good about attending.
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I would encourage more of them to do that because there are so many things within their technology that can really help them.
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Again, it's back to education.
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And talking my language there.
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And just a big shout out.
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I think you had a sold-out webinar experience and series within hours.
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It was almost like John Farnum went on to Ticket Tech and no one could get in.
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I thought I was so wrong.
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That was our Sales Tracker Academy.
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We will be offering that again.
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It's like an hour a week for eight weeks.
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And that's the kind of thing I think brokers should be investing their time in because you learn how to use whatever technology you're using to the maximum.
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You will have quantitative benefits in your business.
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Heather, I want to thank you so much for your time today.
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So much for sharing, not only about you, but about where you're seeing technology driving our industry and really helping and supporting the broker.
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Thank you so much.
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It's been an absolute blast.
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And that's a wrap on today's episode of the Inside Outsource Podcast.
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We hope today's conversation has given you valuable insight, fresh perspectives, and ideas that you can take straight back into your business.
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If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you follow the podcast and share it with your network.
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Thanks for tuning in, and we look forward to having you with us again next time.