EdTech Adventures: Learning to Code II with Ami & Luka
[00:00:00] Charlotte Cheng: Welcome to EdTech Adventures. Join us as we explore the role of technology, STEM, and creative play in education. With expert guests, we'll discover how learning is always an adventure.
What's the teacher/student relationship like when someone's learning how to code? Today, we have two very special guests from our online classes, Luka and Ami. Let's dive into how this dynamic duo works together when learning how to code. Luka is 11-years-old and resides in Malibu, California. He attends Malibu Middle School grade six. He plays AA hockey on a traveling team and is a leading hitter on his majors baseball team. He's a Black Diamond skier and enjoys swimming and diving. He loves math and science and hopes to be a particle scientist when he grows up. He also plays the trumpet and is learning to play the saxophone. He loves to play chess and Backgammon and is self-professed Marvel and Star Wars geek. So am I, Luka.
Now [laughs], Luka, can you share why you were interested in learning how to code?
[00:01:00] Luka Korbelin: I really wanted to explore computer science 'cause I thought, like, in the future it will be really, really important.
[00:01:08] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Why do you think it will be really important?
[00:01:10] Luka Korbelin: Well, the world, I think, is becoming like technology. Like, technology is really growing and I think that coding will be a big part of that.
[00:01:18] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, I agree. It's gonna be everywhere, right?
[00:01:22] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:01:23] Charlotte Cheng: Now, what did it feel like writing your first line of code? Did you write your first line of code when you were doing online classes or had you been trying it out on your own for a bit?
[00:01:30] Luka Korbelin: Well, actually, before I'd be trying it out a little bit. Like, before I started the online classes, I was going through a coding website, I think, and I saw CodeCombat. I just tried it out a little bit and it was really cool.
[00:01:41] Charlotte Cheng: Oh, so, you've done our free stuff.
[00:01:41] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:01:42] Charlotte Cheng: Nice.
[00:01:43] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:01:44] Charlotte Cheng: [laughs]. So then, what got you to go, "Hey, I want to do online classes."? Like, what made you make the leap?
[00:1:49] Luka Korbelin: Well, my mom actually figured out that you could, like, have teachers online, and she has a friend on CodeCombat and he helped us do online classes.
[00:02:00] Charlotte Cheng: That's awesome.
[00:2:01] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Charlotte Cheng: So then you got hooked up with Ami for online classes. What's it like working with Ami on your coding skills? What's the experience like?
[00:02:10] Luka Korbelin: Well, she's, like, she's really patient and she's, like... She really makes me feel like... She really inspires me to find creative ways to code, like, solve bugs and, like, find new ways to solve a problem.
[00:02:25] Charlotte Cheng: That's awesome. Now how about Ami, what's it like working with Luka during your online lessons?
[00:02:30] Ami Dave-Patel: I cannot thank enough for Luka being my student and we have, uh, very, very good classes going on. We meet twice a week and each time when I am introducing any new concept to Luka, I see that strong mindset towards creative problem solving and critical thinking skills coming out from Luka. And his can-do attitude is the plus plus when we are going in our journey with coding at CodeCombat.
[00:03:00] Charlotte Cheng: Gotcha. And, Luka, you mentioned that Ami's very patient. That's something you have to practice if you're gonna go into coding, right?
[00:03:09] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, for sure.
[00:03:09] Charlotte Cheng: [laughs]
[00:03:09] Luka Korbelin: For sure. It's all about, like, trial and error.
[00:03:11] Charlotte Cheng: What was, like, the most satisfying thing that you've done where you were like, "Oh my gosh, this is taking forever," but then you finally got it right? Can you think back to a time when that happened?
[00:03:21] Luka Korbelin: Well, I think there was this one level on the third, like, part of CodeCombat.
Uh-huh.
Like, it was the ending level, the final level and I couldn't, I couldn't figure it out in our classes. And then one day I was just kind of, like, fiddling around, and then I finally found out a way to finish it up and I'm just like, "That was really, like-
[laughs]
... satisfying." It was really cool. It was like this one level and it was awesome.
[00:03:49] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:03:49] Luka Korbelin I finally figured it out. It took, like, it took, like, a couple classes and I couldn't figure it out with Ami.
[laughs]
And then, then one day, I was just fiddling around at home, and then it just came together and it was really cool.
[00:03:59] Ami Dave-Patel: I remember, Luka, what you're talking about. It was, it was a really challenging one and I, I had full faith in Luka that he could do it, but I didn't want to answer directly that, "Hey, this is how you do it," because that's where his strength is because he can see how things are working by just looking at the algorithm, by looking at his strategy, and also reading the code. That's what something which I saw the progress in Luka. When h- we started, we started with very simple, "Move here and move there." And now, Luka is adding pre-algebra concept and trigonometry concepts and within that knowledge and where to apply it, when to apply it. So, that is something what I see that how Luka has grown throughout the entire journey and using all the CodeCombat products. I'm talking about Esports, I'm talking about CodeCombat, throughout ‘til Python CS5, CS6 levels. And right now, Luka is working on Ozaria, and he's like, "Hey, this is fun."
Yeah.
So, Luka is, like, you know, a, a student who always like to learn the new, new, you know, ways to find the solution in a creative way, you know? And he, he don't get frustrated, yeah. There are times where he's like "Hey, what is something which is missing? And what... Why this is not working this way?" And I was like, "Well, because we are doing one small little thing which we need to change." And then it was like, "Okay. Let's go step by step." And then when we go step by step, then Luka himself sees that, "Hey, I should have done this." [laughs]
[00:05:27] Luka Korbelin: It's like this one little syntax error-
[00:05:29] Ami Dave-Patel: Yep.
[00:05:29] Luka Korbelin: ... that I didn't see. Like, I missed a parenthesis, I missed, like, an argument. I'm just like, "I had no idea it wasn't there."
[00:05:36] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:05:36] Charlotte Cheng: That's so annoying sometimes.
[00:05:38] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:05:38] Charlotte Cheng: But it must have been so satisfying finding it, like, that last piece of a puzzle, right?
[00:05:43] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, for sure.
[00:05:45] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. I'm glad you didn't give up. Now, thinking back through all that time you've been spending with Ami, what's been your favorite part of learning how to code?
[00:05:53] Luka Korbelin: Well, actually, like, when all the lines of code come together to, like, make, like, a system, it's really awesome to see that they all have, like, unique results, like, e- even if you change, like, uh, one line. It pretty much does something different and it's... I think it's just, like, really cool how that happens.
[00:06:09] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're thinking like a scientist. You know, you're, you're do-... Oh, and you're just like, "Uh-huh, that's where I wanna go." Because you- you're-
[00:06:18] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:06:18] Charlotte Cheng:... basically making an experiment and you're tweaking the variables, right?
[00:06:22] Luka Korbelin Mm-hmm.
[00:06:23] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:06:23] Ami Dave-Patel: He is a scientist, by the way, and let me sh- let me share one unique experience I had with Luka. Luka's mom, she shared Luka's doodle drawings where he was putting all his imagination, like, "Hey, what if we, we are doing this? And what if this can be a real game?" And I was like, "Well, if you think this way, if you have that creativity where you can put it on pen and pencil on paper, you can bring the same creativity in coding." And that is exactly what I'm seeing Luka, you know, putting all of his idea together and bringing that into step by step process, and that's where you just say the write word, scientist. Luka is a computer scientist in my, in my opinion. [laughs]
[00:07:05] Luka Korbelin: Thanks, Ami. Thanks, Ami.
[00:07:07] Charlotte Cheng: Aw. Aw, this is, like, such a sweet moment. Okay. All right. So, besides the favorite part, how about what's been the most challenging part of learning how to code?
[00:07:15] Luka Korbelin: Well, I, I already know [laughs]. It's f- for sure been, like, vectors, like, doing vectors. That was, like...
[laughs]
Like, not only are they, like, coding challenging, but they're also, like, mathematically challenging and I'm just like... I, I, I watched a Khan Academy video and I was just like, "Wh- What are these?"
[laughs]
And, like, pinpointing them is also really hard, so, like, for me and Ami, it took, like... For me, it took a, a bunch of lessons to actually understand. Like, really hard.
[00:07:44] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. What was the, "Ah-ha," moment, like, that light bulb where it finally made sense? Do you remember wh- what that felt like?
[00:07:52] Luka Korbelin: Well, actually, le- I think one lesson where we were doing it, I think it was when we had, uh, like, some variable equals vector s- dot subtract and a parenthesis, something like that. And then, like, Ami explained to me how, like, it subtracts it and, like, the pinpoint on, like, the X axis and the Y axis, and then I started to understand how to, like, pinpoint the movements.
[00:08:19] Charlotte Cheng: So, it sounded like it took a lot of just trying it and visualizing it over and over again, right?
[00:08:25] Ami Dave-Patel: So, th- let me tell you the background about that because it is not taught in school. Luka is doing above and beyond of his grade in coding. So, now we are talking about AP course, AP concepts and at that time, Luka was, what, six grader, Luka, if I'm not mistaking.
[00:08:43] Luka Korbelin: Uh, I think... No, I think it was fifth grade.
[00:08:46] Ami Dave-Patel: Fifth grader.
[00:08:47] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Ami Dave-Patel: So, and, and a student is reaching to AP level, uh, concept, but he's not giving up. So, that was something wh- it was driving me as a teacher that, "Hey, he has perfect capacity and desire to understand, so it's all right if I do the same concept for four lessons or four times and different, different games and different, different scenario. But it's all right, one day, one moment will come where it- it's going to go and get absorbed." So, that is why... That is where that, "Ah-ha," moment took place.
[00:09:19] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. And it, it takes persistence, right?
[00:09:22] Ami Dave-Patel: Yes. Yes.
[00:09:23] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:09:22] Ami Dave-Patel: Yes, absolutely, on both side, on student and teacher, and that's where I say this is a perfect combination of student/teacher and I enjoy Luka as much as he's enjoying classes, so. [laughs]
[00:09:35] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, really awesome.
[00:09:37] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Luka Korbelin: Ami's a really good coder, so it helps me a lot.
[00:09:40] Charlotte Cheng: Oh, yes. And the key is not just being a really good coder, but, like, being a good coding instructor is learning how to explain it, right?
[00:09:48] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:09:48] Charlotte Cheng: Because my husband's a really good coder, but if I ask him to explain it, it's so hard for him [laughs]. Or, for example, I was... This is a bit of a tangent. I ran into a kid who does Rubik's Cube challenges and timing, and I was asking him to break it down and explain how it works, and he's like, "Well, you just do this." And I'm like, "What-
[00:10:07] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, I'm just like...
[00:10:07] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[laughs]
[00:10:09] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:09] Charlotte Cheng: "What, what, what is this?"
[00:10:11] Luka Korbelin: One of my friends can solve it under a minute and, um, it's really cool, he explained it to me and he was just like, "Well, there was this video that showed me and you have to make, like, a daisy, kind of." And I'm just like, "Really?" And that was like... And then he actually started to explain it to me and I started to understand, so now it takes me, like, maybe 10 minutes to solve, so.
[00:10:30] Charlotte Cheng: Right, yeah.
[00:10:30] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:31] Charlotte Cheng: And it makes a difference between I then asked-
[00:10:33] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:33] Charlotte Cheng:... his dad and his dad was able to explain it to me [laughs] way better.
[00:10:37] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:10:37] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:37] Charlotte Cheng: So, that's, like, a special skillset as well. Now, just reflecting on all that time, how have you seen yourself grow in your coding skills? So, if you, like, look back to that first time you started working with Ami all the way to know, like, what are you the most proud of of how you've grown?
[00:10:51] Luka Korbelin: I think at the beginning, I was a little confused about how to transition what it was asking me to do into code, right? So, it asked me, like, "Bring, like, the digital apple to the digital basket with the character," right? And then at the beginning, it was really hard for me to fully understand 'cause there's, like, a little bit of algorithms. But now, I can, like, breakdown the question and now I can, like, do individual parts one at a time. So, like, first, the hero moves to get the apple, then the character moves to the basket, and then he puts it in the basket. So, now it's much easier for me to, like, breakdown the question and solve the problem.
[00:11:28] Charlotte Cheng: Oh my gosh, you're basically doing computational thinking, which is so important.
[00:11:32] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, it's really cool. Like, recently, I made, like, a two-digit calculator, which is really awesome. And, like, a year or two again, I thought that was, like, out of this world.
[00:11:42] Charlotte Cheng: [laughs]
[00:11:43] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:11:43] Luka Korbelin: That was crazy.
[00:11:45] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, you're saying you wanna be a particle scientist, and those projects are, like, years long, right-
[00:11:51] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Charlotte Cheng:... those research. A- And it looks really intimidating at first, but if you, like you said, chunk it down, break it down into pieces-
[00:11:57] Luka Korbelin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:11:57] Charlotte Cheng: ... you can conquer anything, right?
[00:11:59] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:12:01] Ami Dave-Patel: Absolutely. And also, when we are doing those projects and I'm talking about especially, uh, recently we are working on Ozaria and those exploration projects are giving bigger picture to Luka when we are talking about how does, you know, certain system works, how... What is the rule of, you know, hardware and software and how does networking work? And so, those things are putting all the pieces together that, "Oh, when I do this, this is what it's happening and, oh, certain devices are working because of this. Voiceover technology's working because of this kind of algorithm." So, now everything what Luka has learned, now we are bringing it to... So, like, we are completing the whole circle, you know? And I, I see that Luka recently started learning Lua because he's excited for Roblox.
[00:12:47] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. And we're excited, we're excited that you're excited. [laughs]
[00:12:52] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:12:52] Luka Korbelin: So, now that I'm learning Lua, I can start making, like, games on Roblox and I think that's really cool.
[00:12:58] Ami Dave-Patel: Yep, yep.
[00:12:58] Luka Korbelin: Right now I'm not, like, really good at Lua, but I know at least, like, a little bit of the basics, so it's pretty cool.
[00:13:03] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of the things that you learn in the other languages, probably it's very similar. Like, a loop is a loop.
[00:13:10] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. Like, the main ideas are just similar. Like, the syntax may not be similar, but the main ideas are, like, really close together.
[00:13:19] Charlotte Cheng: Awesome. Yeah, I agree. Like, once you learn one language, it's a lot easier to learn the next couple, right?
[00:13:25] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:13:26] Charlotte Cheng: Now, Ami, what would you say has been the biggest growth for Luka in his coding ability?
[00:13:31] Ami Dave-Patel: Luka has shown the kind of progress path. I would say there are very few student of mine who are, who are self learner and self motivators, and Luka is one of them because when he sees the problem, when he read, uh, like, what exactly are the goals, he automatically starts thinking what kind of strategy can be used, what kind of loops can be used, "How do I make those things, like, in a short amount of time, or still I meet all the goals and I reach to success?" And that capacity is, I feel, because of, uh, a couple of years of experience, of working on algorithm building, it's, it's coming naturally to Luka when he sees the problem. So, that is a huge advantage to Luka when I see Luka as a tech leader of his high school or, you know, guiding other students or peers and his classmates on robotics class or, you know, winning those competition and science. So, because he has that kind of adaptability and problem-solving skills acquired throughout this experience, I see sky is the limit for Luka. Sky is also a small word. Uh, I will say universe is the limit.
[00:14:43] Charlotte Cheng: The universe is the limit, there we go. [laughs]
[00:14:46] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:14:47] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. How's it feel to hear that, Luka? [laughs]
[00:14:50] Luka Korbelin: It's really, like-
[00:14:52] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:14:52] Luka Korbelin: ... awe inspiring.
[00:14:53] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:14:55] Charlotte Cheng: Well, I love how you guys... It seems like you're inspiring each other, which is-
[00:15:00] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:15:00] Charlotte Cheng:... an awesome relationship. So, you said years, Ami. How long have y'all been working together?
[00:15:05] Ami Dave-Patel: So, Luka started with me in the middle of pandemic. I'm talking about right when we started. It was May, uh, 2021, if I'm not mistaking.
[00:15:16] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:17] Ami Dave-Patel: Yeah. And that's when we started. And since that day, we are continuing, we are going, even though-
[00:15:23] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:15:23] Ami Dave-Patel:... with a rapid speed, with all the curves [laughs], you know, we've been through. There you go, Luka. Luka knows th- the resilience th- to the new challenges what Luka has shown, it's marvelous because, uh, sometimes seeing something bigger than your capacity makes you nervous, makes sometimes... I've seen student, they a- they about to quit, that, "Hey, uh, this is not something for me because this is too difficult." And during those special times, I reminded Luka that, you know, "We are together in this journey. If you're not successful, that means I'm also not successful. So, when we are together, you don't have to worry about. We will go through it together," you know? [laughs]
[00:16:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:16:04] Charlotte Cheng: Cool. I agree. And it sounds like... I mean, you're only in sixth grade. Who knows what you're gonna work on next [laughs]. So, let's delve a little bit into that. Like, how do you think you'll use code in the future? And let's break it down a little bit. How do you think you're gonna use code in the future from now until you graduate high school? And then let's, after that, explore beyond. So, for now, what do you think you're gonna work on? What are you excited about working on with code?
[00:16:29] Luka Korbelin: Well, I think coding will be, like, really interesting for school, right? Like, let's see. If I, like Ami said, like robotics, it will be really cool in a competition 'cause, like, I can, like, help other students with, let's just say, like, coding classes. So, if they need help with, I don't know, making something, I'll always be there. Then also, like, in robotics, I, I know how to, like, move the arm of the robot, make it move, like, left to right and, like, connect it all.
[00:16:55] Charlotte Cheng: Cool. And how about the particle scientist piece? What got you interested in that? Do you see code playing a role in, in you pursuing that career?
[00:17:04] Luka Korbelin: Well, I don't know about, like, particle science, but I think so. I think, like, engineering something would, like, take some code, right? Like, let's just say you need, like, a gear something, right? You ma- maybe need, like, gears to connect with code.
[00:17:18] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Cool.
[00:17:19] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:17:19] Charlotte Cheng: And what are, like, some projects you could imagine that you'd be doing with code outside of robotics? Like, imagine yourself maybe in college or after college. What's your dream?
[00:17:30] Luka Korbelin: I think, like... Hm. I don't know.
[00:17:34] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]. It's alright…
[00:17:34] Luka Korbelin: I don't know. Making, like... Maybe making, like, a cool video game or something, like, to explain, like, science, maybe something like that.
[00:17:41] Ami Dave-Patel: There you go. And let me tell you one experience. Let me remind you. Luka's mom shared Luka's doodle on immune cells and immune system, and when I was looking at that, I felt like, "What if there's a game which is, you know, making it fun to learn the immune cell?"
[00:17:59] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, like CodeCombat with coding.
[00:18:01] Ami Dave-Patel: Exactly, you know? [laughs]. So, then we talked about it and I was like, "Luka, have you ever thought about that, uh, what if we have this kind of fun learning kind of games? Like immune cells, or any complex science topics-
[00:18:16] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:18:17] Ami Dave-Patel:... can be learned through a gamified way,"you know? So, Luka, wh- what are your thoughts on it?
[00:18:22] Luka Korbelin: Oh, I just thought it would be, like, really cool to explore how the immune system will, like, fight off, like, a virus or something like that.
[00:18:30] Ami Dave-Patel:... Mm-hmm.
[00:18:31] Charlotte Cheng: That would be really fun, like, if you could play-
[00:18:33] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Charlotte Cheng: ... the virus or you could play the- [laughs]
[00:18:35] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, that would be cool. Like, you can play, like, the immune system. Like, you need the cells for the ener-... You need, like, cells and then you take the energy of the cells and then you build, like, a, a macrophage, which is basically the soldier. And then maybe, like, a tutorial to explain the process for you. So, like, then you could fi- like, fight viruses, and then maybe at some point, you could be the virus and then you could try to destroy the body.
[00:19:02] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:19:02] Charlotte Cheng: Whoa. Like, yeah-
[00:19:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:19:03] Charlotte Cheng: ... that'd be really cool 'cause it would be, like, two versions of the same game.
[00:19:08] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Charlotte Cheng: Okay. I'm getting excited. Well, Luka, basically you're gunning for my job. [laughs]
[00:19:12] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:19:12] Charlotte Cheng: No, no, no, I'm kidding. What's cool is I don't know if you know, so it sounds like you guys have delved into Esports, too, but-
[00:19:18] Luka Korbelin: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:18] Charlotte Cheng: ... one of the champions of AI League in the past is now an intern at our company, so-
[00:19:23] Luka Korbelin: Really?
[00:19:24] Charlotte Cheng: Yes, yeah. His name Valent-
[00:19:26] Luka Korbelin: Wow.
[00:19:26] Charlotte Cheng:... and h- he's been really contributing. He's helped us build the next arena for eSports, so, like-
[00:19:31] Luka Korbelin: Really?
[00:19:31] Charlotte Cheng: Oo, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:33] Luka Korbelin: Awesome.
[00:19:34 ] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. How's Esports been like with Ami and, and competing in our AI League?
[00:19:39] Luka Korbelin: Well, it's been really cool. Like, sometimes I will build, like, a strategy in the class and we would do it, and she would help me a little bit. Or sometimes I would just do it out of the class and I would just, like, build a strategy, and then next class we- I would just show her, and I was just like, "I, I have this really cool strategy where I just go in a circle around the enemy and then I, like, trap them," right? And then I would ask her what she thought about that.
[00:20:03] Ami Dave-Patel: Yeah. So, the improvement of the strategy happens in the class many times, and then, so, we can go and progress up on the leaderboard. And then what else can be done? What are the other things what he... Luka already learned, we can bring it into Esports. Those kind of discussion also takes place in the class that how we can make our game better or how we can compete better to other coders and what Luka found out earlier that, "Hey, I have to be consistent. I have to login to Esports almost every day and play or compete."
[00:20:37] Luka Korbelin: Right. [inaudible 00:20:39]
[00:20:37] Ami Dave-Patel: If I don't do that, then my rank goes down. So, it's like, okay-
[00:20:40] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. So you have to, you have to... It's not really about how many, um... Like, your score. It's about how many games, really, that you win, right?
[00:20:48] Ami Dave-Patel: Mm.
[00:20:48] Luka Korbelin And then that increases your score and you get higher on the leaderboard, right? So, you have to, you have to be there on, like, all the times you can get it, like, keep ma- pushing it up.
[00:20:57] Ami Dave-Patel: Yep.
[00:20:57] Charlotte Cheng: Yes, yeah. You'll see if you keep competing... Like, our top two contenders, so one of them, Valent, he's our intern and ShiningLice was, like, up against him and they would keep sneakily submitting their code 'cause they didn't want the other person to see their strategy, right? And so, I like that it's really gonna play into your strengths because it's about persistence, right? It's about, like, constantly going, "Well, what if I try this? I'm gonna try and experiment." So, that's really cool that you're, you're getting involved with that. And hey, maybe down the road, you'll also be one of our interns. [laughs]
[00:21:29] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:21:31] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:21:31] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Now, just to wrap things up, like, think all the way back to when you just, like, discovered CodeCombat and you were like, "Hey, this sounds like fun," what would you say to someone who wants to learn how to code? What should they do first?
[00:21:44] Luka Korbelin: I, I guess I would tell them that failure is part of the process and that, like, coding is all about failing and learning from your mistakes. And I think that if you, you aren't making, like, a lot of mistakes, that maybe you aren't, like, trying a different way, right? 'Cause you always wanna be trying something new, right? And you can always learn from the mistakes you make.
[00:22:07] Charlotte Cheng: I love-
[00:22:07] Luka Korbelin: Like, a better way, a more efficient way to do this, right? A faster way to do that. And I'd actually say that, like, CodeCombat or Ozaria is, like, a really good wa-... Great place to learn the basics of coding 'cause they, like, teach you, like, they teach you how to make loops, if statement conditionals, and it's really cool that... And it's, it's fun, too. It's not like they're just like, "Ugh." They're really, like, putting you into it, right? And I think, like, also, like, Esports and AI Leagues is also, like, a great place to, like, test yourself against other people so you can, like, test your skills, test your metal.
[00:22:46] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:22:46] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Thanks for all that advice, and glad you're-
[00:22:50] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:22:46] Charlotte Cheng: ...enjoying us. I mean, clearly we need to make more content for you 'cause you're about to play [laughs], play through all of ours. And I agree, I'm gonna say that, too, my father-in-law says you have to fail, like, 100 ways at something to really figure it out.
[00:23:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, to really understand.
[00:23:04] Charlotte Cheng: Yes, to really understand, and also to innovate. Like, you're not gonna know until you try something new, so I love that you have that mindset.
Now, how about you, Ami? What advice would you give to someone who's interested in becoming a coding instructor going into CS education? Where should they start? What should they do?
[00:23:21] Ami Dave-Patel: We hired team of instructors who are coming from different, different background, even grad students and they have desire, like, strong course for teaching, and CodeCombat, how we have developed the curriculum, how we have developed the entire training and how we are giving them, you know, step by step training and assisting the new teacher with onboarding, that builds super confidence in them. I have seen our instructor, you know, growing through CodeCombat and experiencing from that one on one, you know, classroom and then thriving through their o- other careers, which is, like, uh, technology concentration, and that is just amazing to see that CodeCombat is not only helping student, but as well as the teachers.
[00:24:07] Charlotte Cheng: Oh, that's really great to hear. I agree, like, the two of you, how you're inspiring each other-
[00:24:13] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:24:13] Charlotte Cheng:... I think being in education, that's, that's the... That's what keeps me goin' is just I'm always learning, like, today, from you Luka, from other people, just working with students, working with teachers. So, I'm glad you guys get to continue this relationship. [laughs]
[00:24:28] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]. And let me tell you, Luka is a very wise student of mine. I call him wise soul. He's super empathetic at heart and his resilience to new thing is a kind of student which is, like, a ideal student every teacher would like to have. And at the same time, his communication skills, the self-awareness and the solution minded approach to entire learning is just... It's, it's just outstanding. It serves him the best, and at the same time, it inspires any teacher. So, when I'm not available, then if any substitute teacher is there with Luka, they gave me the same kind of feedback. They said, "This is just amazing to see him work." It's like a student-centered kind of learning. He is, you know, taking that path and sh- and showing the progress, and if he's stuck, he will ask. So, then that just entire journey of Luka, it just gave me a newer perspective that how student-centered learning through Zoom, through online medium is possible, you know? It's not just in the classroom, but now the learning has shifted and world is changing and through Zoom even, we can make that kind of student-centered learning.
[00:25:40] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Charlotte Cheng: Awesome. Did you have any last words, Luka?
[00:25:42] Luka Korbelin: Well, yeah, you gotta be like Ami, you have to be, like... She's really patient and she's a great coder and she's good at explaining. And I think she's just really, like, really nice, too.
[00:25:55] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:25:55] Luka Korbelin: She's really awesome. I learn a lot.
[00:25:57] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, I agree. You need to be nice, that's [laughs]... Like, a very kind instructor.
[00:26:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:26:03] Charlotte Cheng: And circle back to patience, right? You gotta be patient. [laughs]
[00:26:06] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. [laughs]
[00:26:06] Charlotte Cheng: All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I sure learned a lot and all the best with your coding adventures together.
[00:26:15] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
[00:26:17] Ami Dave-Patel: Thank you.
[00:26:20] Charlotte Cheng: Thanks for listening to EdTech Adventures. Please subscribe to catch more of our episodes and leave a review to support the show. For more resources and info, visit us at CodeCombat.com/podcast. I'm your host, Charlotte Cheng. We'll see you on our next learning adventure.
[00:00:00] Charlotte Cheng: Welcome to EdTech Adventures. Join us as we explore the role of technology, STEM, and creative play in education. With expert guests, we'll discover how learning is always an adventure.
What's the teacher/student relationship like when someone's learning how to code? Today, we have two very special guests from our online classes, Luka and Ami. Let's dive into how this dynamic duo works together when learning how to code. Luka is 11-years-old and resides in Malibu, California. He attends Malibu Middle School grade six. He plays AA hockey on a traveling team and is a leading hitter on his majors baseball team. He's a Black Diamond skier and enjoys swimming and diving. He loves math and science and hopes to be a particle scientist when he grows up. He also plays the trumpet and is learning to play the saxophone. He loves to play chess and Backgammon and is self-professed Marvel and Star Wars geek. So am I, Luka.
Now [laughs], Luka, can you share why you were interested in learning how to code?
[00:01:00] Luka Korbelin: I really wanted to explore computer science 'cause I thought, like, in the future it will be really, really important.
[00:01:08] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Why do you think it will be really important?
[00:01:10] Luka Korbelin: Well, the world, I think, is becoming like technology. Like, technology is really growing and I think that coding will be a big part of that.
[00:01:18] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, I agree. It's gonna be everywhere, right?
[00:01:22] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:01:23] Charlotte Cheng: Now, what did it feel like writing your first line of code? Did you write your first line of code when you were doing online classes or had you been trying it out on your own for a bit?
[00:01:30] Luka Korbelin: Well, actually, before I'd be trying it out a little bit. Like, before I started the online classes, I was going through a coding website, I think, and I saw CodeCombat. I just tried it out a little bit and it was really cool.
[00:01:41] Charlotte Cheng: Oh, so, you've done our free stuff.
[00:01:41] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:01:42] Charlotte Cheng: Nice.
[00:01:43] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:01:44] Charlotte Cheng: [laughs]. So then, what got you to go, "Hey, I want to do online classes."? Like, what made you make the leap?
[00:1:49] Luka Korbelin: Well, my mom actually figured out that you could, like, have teachers online, and she has a friend on CodeCombat and he helped us do online classes.
[00:02:00] Charlotte Cheng: That's awesome.
[00:2:01] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:02:02] Charlotte Cheng: So then you got hooked up with Ami for online classes. What's it like working with Ami on your coding skills? What's the experience like?
[00:02:10] Luka Korbelin: Well, she's, like, she's really patient and she's, like... She really makes me feel like... She really inspires me to find creative ways to code, like, solve bugs and, like, find new ways to solve a problem.
[00:02:25] Charlotte Cheng: That's awesome. Now how about Ami, what's it like working with Luka during your online lessons?
[00:02:30] Ami Dave-Patel: I cannot thank enough for Luka being my student and we have, uh, very, very good classes going on. We meet twice a week and each time when I am introducing any new concept to Luka, I see that strong mindset towards creative problem solving and critical thinking skills coming out from Luka. And his can-do attitude is the plus plus when we are going in our journey with coding at CodeCombat.
[00:03:00] Charlotte Cheng: Gotcha. And, Luka, you mentioned that Ami's very patient. That's something you have to practice if you're gonna go into coding, right?
[00:03:09] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, for sure.
[00:03:09] Charlotte Cheng: [laughs]
[00:03:09] Luka Korbelin: For sure. It's all about, like, trial and error.
[00:03:11] Charlotte Cheng: What was, like, the most satisfying thing that you've done where you were like, "Oh my gosh, this is taking forever," but then you finally got it right? Can you think back to a time when that happened?
[00:03:21] Luka Korbelin: Well, I think there was this one level on the third, like, part of CodeCombat.
Uh-huh.
Like, it was the ending level, the final level and I couldn't, I couldn't figure it out in our classes. And then one day I was just kind of, like, fiddling around, and then I finally found out a way to finish it up and I'm just like, "That was really, like-
[laughs]
... satisfying." It was really cool. It was like this one level and it was awesome.
[00:03:49] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:03:49] Luka Korbelin I finally figured it out. It took, like, it took, like, a couple classes and I couldn't figure it out with Ami.
[laughs]
And then, then one day, I was just fiddling around at home, and then it just came together and it was really cool.
[00:03:59] Ami Dave-Patel: I remember, Luka, what you're talking about. It was, it was a really challenging one and I, I had full faith in Luka that he could do it, but I didn't want to answer directly that, "Hey, this is how you do it," because that's where his strength is because he can see how things are working by just looking at the algorithm, by looking at his strategy, and also reading the code. That's what something which I saw the progress in Luka. When h- we started, we started with very simple, "Move here and move there." And now, Luka is adding pre-algebra concept and trigonometry concepts and within that knowledge and where to apply it, when to apply it. So, that is something what I see that how Luka has grown throughout the entire journey and using all the CodeCombat products. I'm talking about Esports, I'm talking about CodeCombat, throughout ‘til Python CS5, CS6 levels. And right now, Luka is working on Ozaria, and he's like, "Hey, this is fun."
Yeah.
So, Luka is, like, you know, a, a student who always like to learn the new, new, you know, ways to find the solution in a creative way, you know? And he, he don't get frustrated, yeah. There are times where he's like "Hey, what is something which is missing? And what... Why this is not working this way?" And I was like, "Well, because we are doing one small little thing which we need to change." And then it was like, "Okay. Let's go step by step." And then when we go step by step, then Luka himself sees that, "Hey, I should have done this." [laughs]
[00:05:27] Luka Korbelin: It's like this one little syntax error-
[00:05:29] Ami Dave-Patel: Yep.
[00:05:29] Luka Korbelin: ... that I didn't see. Like, I missed a parenthesis, I missed, like, an argument. I'm just like, "I had no idea it wasn't there."
[00:05:36] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:05:36] Charlotte Cheng: That's so annoying sometimes.
[00:05:38] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:05:38] Charlotte Cheng: But it must have been so satisfying finding it, like, that last piece of a puzzle, right?
[00:05:43] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, for sure.
[00:05:45] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. I'm glad you didn't give up. Now, thinking back through all that time you've been spending with Ami, what's been your favorite part of learning how to code?
[00:05:53] Luka Korbelin: Well, actually, like, when all the lines of code come together to, like, make, like, a system, it's really awesome to see that they all have, like, unique results, like, e- even if you change, like, uh, one line. It pretty much does something different and it's... I think it's just, like, really cool how that happens.
[00:06:09] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you're thinking like a scientist. You know, you're, you're do-... Oh, and you're just like, "Uh-huh, that's where I wanna go." Because you- you're-
[00:06:18] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:06:18] Charlotte Cheng:... basically making an experiment and you're tweaking the variables, right?
[00:06:22] Luka Korbelin Mm-hmm.
[00:06:23] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:06:23] Ami Dave-Patel: He is a scientist, by the way, and let me sh- let me share one unique experience I had with Luka. Luka's mom, she shared Luka's doodle drawings where he was putting all his imagination, like, "Hey, what if we, we are doing this? And what if this can be a real game?" And I was like, "Well, if you think this way, if you have that creativity where you can put it on pen and pencil on paper, you can bring the same creativity in coding." And that is exactly what I'm seeing Luka, you know, putting all of his idea together and bringing that into step by step process, and that's where you just say the write word, scientist. Luka is a computer scientist in my, in my opinion. [laughs]
[00:07:05] Luka Korbelin: Thanks, Ami. Thanks, Ami.
[00:07:07] Charlotte Cheng: Aw. Aw, this is, like, such a sweet moment. Okay. All right. So, besides the favorite part, how about what's been the most challenging part of learning how to code?
[00:07:15] Luka Korbelin: Well, I, I already know [laughs]. It's f- for sure been, like, vectors, like, doing vectors. That was, like...
[laughs]
Like, not only are they, like, coding challenging, but they're also, like, mathematically challenging and I'm just like... I, I, I watched a Khan Academy video and I was just like, "Wh- What are these?"
[laughs]
And, like, pinpointing them is also really hard, so, like, for me and Ami, it took, like... For me, it took a, a bunch of lessons to actually understand. Like, really hard.
[00:07:44] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. What was the, "Ah-ha," moment, like, that light bulb where it finally made sense? Do you remember wh- what that felt like?
[00:07:52] Luka Korbelin: Well, actually, le- I think one lesson where we were doing it, I think it was when we had, uh, like, some variable equals vector s- dot subtract and a parenthesis, something like that. And then, like, Ami explained to me how, like, it subtracts it and, like, the pinpoint on, like, the X axis and the Y axis, and then I started to understand how to, like, pinpoint the movements.
[00:08:19] Charlotte Cheng: So, it sounded like it took a lot of just trying it and visualizing it over and over again, right?
[00:08:25] Ami Dave-Patel: So, th- let me tell you the background about that because it is not taught in school. Luka is doing above and beyond of his grade in coding. So, now we are talking about AP course, AP concepts and at that time, Luka was, what, six grader, Luka, if I'm not mistaking.
[00:08:43] Luka Korbelin: Uh, I think... No, I think it was fifth grade.
[00:08:46] Ami Dave-Patel: Fifth grader.
[00:08:47] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:08:47] Ami Dave-Patel: So, and, and a student is reaching to AP level, uh, concept, but he's not giving up. So, that was something wh- it was driving me as a teacher that, "Hey, he has perfect capacity and desire to understand, so it's all right if I do the same concept for four lessons or four times and different, different games and different, different scenario. But it's all right, one day, one moment will come where it- it's going to go and get absorbed." So, that is why... That is where that, "Ah-ha," moment took place.
[00:09:19] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. And it, it takes persistence, right?
[00:09:22] Ami Dave-Patel: Yes. Yes.
[00:09:23] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:09:22] Ami Dave-Patel: Yes, absolutely, on both side, on student and teacher, and that's where I say this is a perfect combination of student/teacher and I enjoy Luka as much as he's enjoying classes, so. [laughs]
[00:09:35] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, really awesome.
[00:09:37] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Luka Korbelin: Ami's a really good coder, so it helps me a lot.
[00:09:40] Charlotte Cheng: Oh, yes. And the key is not just being a really good coder, but, like, being a good coding instructor is learning how to explain it, right?
[00:09:48] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:09:48] Charlotte Cheng: Because my husband's a really good coder, but if I ask him to explain it, it's so hard for him [laughs]. Or, for example, I was... This is a bit of a tangent. I ran into a kid who does Rubik's Cube challenges and timing, and I was asking him to break it down and explain how it works, and he's like, "Well, you just do this." And I'm like, "What-
[00:10:07] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, I'm just like...
[00:10:07] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[laughs]
[00:10:09] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:09] Charlotte Cheng: "What, what, what is this?"
[00:10:11] Luka Korbelin: One of my friends can solve it under a minute and, um, it's really cool, he explained it to me and he was just like, "Well, there was this video that showed me and you have to make, like, a daisy, kind of." And I'm just like, "Really?" And that was like... And then he actually started to explain it to me and I started to understand, so now it takes me, like, maybe 10 minutes to solve, so.
[00:10:30] Charlotte Cheng: Right, yeah.
[00:10:30] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:31] Charlotte Cheng: And it makes a difference between I then asked-
[00:10:33] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:33] Charlotte Cheng:... his dad and his dad was able to explain it to me [laughs] way better.
[00:10:37] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:10:37] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:10:37] Charlotte Cheng: So, that's, like, a special skillset as well. Now, just reflecting on all that time, how have you seen yourself grow in your coding skills? So, if you, like, look back to that first time you started working with Ami all the way to know, like, what are you the most proud of of how you've grown?
[00:10:51] Luka Korbelin: I think at the beginning, I was a little confused about how to transition what it was asking me to do into code, right? So, it asked me, like, "Bring, like, the digital apple to the digital basket with the character," right? And then at the beginning, it was really hard for me to fully understand 'cause there's, like, a little bit of algorithms. But now, I can, like, breakdown the question and now I can, like, do individual parts one at a time. So, like, first, the hero moves to get the apple, then the character moves to the basket, and then he puts it in the basket. So, now it's much easier for me to, like, breakdown the question and solve the problem.
[00:11:28] Charlotte Cheng: Oh my gosh, you're basically doing computational thinking, which is so important.
[00:11:32] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, it's really cool. Like, recently, I made, like, a two-digit calculator, which is really awesome. And, like, a year or two again, I thought that was, like, out of this world.
[00:11:42] Charlotte Cheng: [laughs]
[00:11:43] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:11:43] Luka Korbelin: That was crazy.
[00:11:45] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, you're saying you wanna be a particle scientist, and those projects are, like, years long, right-
[00:11:51] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Charlotte Cheng:... those research. A- And it looks really intimidating at first, but if you, like you said, chunk it down, break it down into pieces-
[00:11:57] Luka Korbelin: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:11:57] Charlotte Cheng: ... you can conquer anything, right?
[00:11:59] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:12:00] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:12:01] Ami Dave-Patel: Absolutely. And also, when we are doing those projects and I'm talking about especially, uh, recently we are working on Ozaria and those exploration projects are giving bigger picture to Luka when we are talking about how does, you know, certain system works, how... What is the rule of, you know, hardware and software and how does networking work? And so, those things are putting all the pieces together that, "Oh, when I do this, this is what it's happening and, oh, certain devices are working because of this. Voiceover technology's working because of this kind of algorithm." So, now everything what Luka has learned, now we are bringing it to... So, like, we are completing the whole circle, you know? And I, I see that Luka recently started learning Lua because he's excited for Roblox.
[00:12:47] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. And we're excited, we're excited that you're excited. [laughs]
[00:12:52] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:12:52] Luka Korbelin: So, now that I'm learning Lua, I can start making, like, games on Roblox and I think that's really cool.
[00:12:58] Ami Dave-Patel: Yep, yep.
[00:12:58] Luka Korbelin: Right now I'm not, like, really good at Lua, but I know at least, like, a little bit of the basics, so it's pretty cool.
[00:13:03] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, yeah. And a lot of the things that you learn in the other languages, probably it's very similar. Like, a loop is a loop.
[00:13:10] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. Like, the main ideas are just similar. Like, the syntax may not be similar, but the main ideas are, like, really close together.
[00:13:19] Charlotte Cheng: Awesome. Yeah, I agree. Like, once you learn one language, it's a lot easier to learn the next couple, right?
[00:13:25] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:13:26] Charlotte Cheng: Now, Ami, what would you say has been the biggest growth for Luka in his coding ability?
[00:13:31] Ami Dave-Patel: Luka has shown the kind of progress path. I would say there are very few student of mine who are, who are self learner and self motivators, and Luka is one of them because when he sees the problem, when he read, uh, like, what exactly are the goals, he automatically starts thinking what kind of strategy can be used, what kind of loops can be used, "How do I make those things, like, in a short amount of time, or still I meet all the goals and I reach to success?" And that capacity is, I feel, because of, uh, a couple of years of experience, of working on algorithm building, it's, it's coming naturally to Luka when he sees the problem. So, that is a huge advantage to Luka when I see Luka as a tech leader of his high school or, you know, guiding other students or peers and his classmates on robotics class or, you know, winning those competition and science. So, because he has that kind of adaptability and problem-solving skills acquired throughout this experience, I see sky is the limit for Luka. Sky is also a small word. Uh, I will say universe is the limit.
[00:14:43] Charlotte Cheng: The universe is the limit, there we go. [laughs]
[00:14:46] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:14:47] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:14:48] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. How's it feel to hear that, Luka? [laughs]
[00:14:50] Luka Korbelin: It's really, like-
[00:14:52] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:14:52] Luka Korbelin: ... awe inspiring.
[00:14:53] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:14:55] Charlotte Cheng: Well, I love how you guys... It seems like you're inspiring each other, which is-
[00:15:00] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:15:00] Charlotte Cheng:... an awesome relationship. So, you said years, Ami. How long have y'all been working together?
[00:15:05] Ami Dave-Patel: So, Luka started with me in the middle of pandemic. I'm talking about right when we started. It was May, uh, 2021, if I'm not mistaking.
[00:15:16] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, yeah.
[00:15:17] Ami Dave-Patel: Yeah. And that's when we started. And since that day, we are continuing, we are going, even though-
[00:15:23] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:15:23] Ami Dave-Patel:... with a rapid speed, with all the curves [laughs], you know, we've been through. There you go, Luka. Luka knows th- the resilience th- to the new challenges what Luka has shown, it's marvelous because, uh, sometimes seeing something bigger than your capacity makes you nervous, makes sometimes... I've seen student, they a- they about to quit, that, "Hey, uh, this is not something for me because this is too difficult." And during those special times, I reminded Luka that, you know, "We are together in this journey. If you're not successful, that means I'm also not successful. So, when we are together, you don't have to worry about. We will go through it together," you know? [laughs]
[00:16:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:16:04] Charlotte Cheng: Cool. I agree. And it sounds like... I mean, you're only in sixth grade. Who knows what you're gonna work on next [laughs]. So, let's delve a little bit into that. Like, how do you think you'll use code in the future? And let's break it down a little bit. How do you think you're gonna use code in the future from now until you graduate high school? And then let's, after that, explore beyond. So, for now, what do you think you're gonna work on? What are you excited about working on with code?
[00:16:29] Luka Korbelin: Well, I think coding will be, like, really interesting for school, right? Like, let's see. If I, like Ami said, like robotics, it will be really cool in a competition 'cause, like, I can, like, help other students with, let's just say, like, coding classes. So, if they need help with, I don't know, making something, I'll always be there. Then also, like, in robotics, I, I know how to, like, move the arm of the robot, make it move, like, left to right and, like, connect it all.
[00:16:55] Charlotte Cheng: Cool. And how about the particle scientist piece? What got you interested in that? Do you see code playing a role in, in you pursuing that career?
[00:17:04] Luka Korbelin: Well, I don't know about, like, particle science, but I think so. I think, like, engineering something would, like, take some code, right? Like, let's just say you need, like, a gear something, right? You ma- maybe need, like, gears to connect with code.
[00:17:18] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Cool.
[00:17:19] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:17:19] Charlotte Cheng: And what are, like, some projects you could imagine that you'd be doing with code outside of robotics? Like, imagine yourself maybe in college or after college. What's your dream?
[00:17:30] Luka Korbelin: I think, like... Hm. I don't know.
[00:17:34] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]. It's alright…
[00:17:34] Luka Korbelin: I don't know. Making, like... Maybe making, like, a cool video game or something, like, to explain, like, science, maybe something like that.
[00:17:41] Ami Dave-Patel: There you go. And let me tell you one experience. Let me remind you. Luka's mom shared Luka's doodle on immune cells and immune system, and when I was looking at that, I felt like, "What if there's a game which is, you know, making it fun to learn the immune cell?"
[00:17:59] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, like CodeCombat with coding.
[00:18:01] Ami Dave-Patel: Exactly, you know? [laughs]. So, then we talked about it and I was like, "Luka, have you ever thought about that, uh, what if we have this kind of fun learning kind of games? Like immune cells, or any complex science topics-
[00:18:16] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:18:17] Ami Dave-Patel:... can be learned through a gamified way,"you know? So, Luka, wh- what are your thoughts on it?
[00:18:22] Luka Korbelin: Oh, I just thought it would be, like, really cool to explore how the immune system will, like, fight off, like, a virus or something like that.
[00:18:30] Ami Dave-Patel:... Mm-hmm.
[00:18:31] Charlotte Cheng: That would be really fun, like, if you could play-
[00:18:33] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:18:33] Charlotte Cheng: ... the virus or you could play the- [laughs]
[00:18:35] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, that would be cool. Like, you can play, like, the immune system. Like, you need the cells for the ener-... You need, like, cells and then you take the energy of the cells and then you build, like, a, a macrophage, which is basically the soldier. And then maybe, like, a tutorial to explain the process for you. So, like, then you could fi- like, fight viruses, and then maybe at some point, you could be the virus and then you could try to destroy the body.
[00:19:02] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:19:02] Charlotte Cheng: Whoa. Like, yeah-
[00:19:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:19:03] Charlotte Cheng: ... that'd be really cool 'cause it would be, like, two versions of the same game.
[00:19:08] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:19:08] Charlotte Cheng: Okay. I'm getting excited. Well, Luka, basically you're gunning for my job. [laughs]
[00:19:12] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:19:12] Charlotte Cheng: No, no, no, I'm kidding. What's cool is I don't know if you know, so it sounds like you guys have delved into Esports, too, but-
[00:19:18] Luka Korbelin: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:18] Charlotte Cheng: ... one of the champions of AI League in the past is now an intern at our company, so-
[00:19:23] Luka Korbelin: Really?
[00:19:24] Charlotte Cheng: Yes, yeah. His name Valent-
[00:19:26] Luka Korbelin: Wow.
[00:19:26] Charlotte Cheng:... and h- he's been really contributing. He's helped us build the next arena for eSports, so, like-
[00:19:31] Luka Korbelin: Really?
[00:19:31] Charlotte Cheng: Oo, yeah, yeah.
[00:19:33] Luka Korbelin: Awesome.
[00:19:34 ] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. How's Esports been like with Ami and, and competing in our AI League?
[00:19:39] Luka Korbelin: Well, it's been really cool. Like, sometimes I will build, like, a strategy in the class and we would do it, and she would help me a little bit. Or sometimes I would just do it out of the class and I would just, like, build a strategy, and then next class we- I would just show her, and I was just like, "I, I have this really cool strategy where I just go in a circle around the enemy and then I, like, trap them," right? And then I would ask her what she thought about that.
[00:20:03] Ami Dave-Patel: Yeah. So, the improvement of the strategy happens in the class many times, and then, so, we can go and progress up on the leaderboard. And then what else can be done? What are the other things what he... Luka already learned, we can bring it into Esports. Those kind of discussion also takes place in the class that how we can make our game better or how we can compete better to other coders and what Luka found out earlier that, "Hey, I have to be consistent. I have to login to Esports almost every day and play or compete."
[00:20:37] Luka Korbelin: Right. [inaudible 00:20:39]
[00:20:37] Ami Dave-Patel: If I don't do that, then my rank goes down. So, it's like, okay-
[00:20:40] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. So you have to, you have to... It's not really about how many, um... Like, your score. It's about how many games, really, that you win, right?
[00:20:48] Ami Dave-Patel: Mm.
[00:20:48] Luka Korbelin And then that increases your score and you get higher on the leaderboard, right? So, you have to, you have to be there on, like, all the times you can get it, like, keep ma- pushing it up.
[00:20:57] Ami Dave-Patel: Yep.
[00:20:57] Charlotte Cheng: Yes, yeah. You'll see if you keep competing... Like, our top two contenders, so one of them, Valent, he's our intern and ShiningLice was, like, up against him and they would keep sneakily submitting their code 'cause they didn't want the other person to see their strategy, right? And so, I like that it's really gonna play into your strengths because it's about persistence, right? It's about, like, constantly going, "Well, what if I try this? I'm gonna try and experiment." So, that's really cool that you're, you're getting involved with that. And hey, maybe down the road, you'll also be one of our interns. [laughs]
[00:21:29] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:21:31] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah.
[00:21:31] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:21:32] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Now, just to wrap things up, like, think all the way back to when you just, like, discovered CodeCombat and you were like, "Hey, this sounds like fun," what would you say to someone who wants to learn how to code? What should they do first?
[00:21:44] Luka Korbelin: I, I guess I would tell them that failure is part of the process and that, like, coding is all about failing and learning from your mistakes. And I think that if you, you aren't making, like, a lot of mistakes, that maybe you aren't, like, trying a different way, right? 'Cause you always wanna be trying something new, right? And you can always learn from the mistakes you make.
[00:22:07] Charlotte Cheng: I love-
[00:22:07] Luka Korbelin: Like, a better way, a more efficient way to do this, right? A faster way to do that. And I'd actually say that, like, CodeCombat or Ozaria is, like, a really good wa-... Great place to learn the basics of coding 'cause they, like, teach you, like, they teach you how to make loops, if statement conditionals, and it's really cool that... And it's, it's fun, too. It's not like they're just like, "Ugh." They're really, like, putting you into it, right? And I think, like, also, like, Esports and AI Leagues is also, like, a great place to, like, test yourself against other people so you can, like, test your skills, test your metal.
[00:22:46] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:22:46] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah. Thanks for all that advice, and glad you're-
[00:22:50] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:22:46] Charlotte Cheng: ...enjoying us. I mean, clearly we need to make more content for you 'cause you're about to play [laughs], play through all of ours. And I agree, I'm gonna say that, too, my father-in-law says you have to fail, like, 100 ways at something to really figure it out.
[00:23:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah, to really understand.
[00:23:04] Charlotte Cheng: Yes, to really understand, and also to innovate. Like, you're not gonna know until you try something new, so I love that you have that mindset.
Now, how about you, Ami? What advice would you give to someone who's interested in becoming a coding instructor going into CS education? Where should they start? What should they do?
[00:23:21] Ami Dave-Patel: We hired team of instructors who are coming from different, different background, even grad students and they have desire, like, strong course for teaching, and CodeCombat, how we have developed the curriculum, how we have developed the entire training and how we are giving them, you know, step by step training and assisting the new teacher with onboarding, that builds super confidence in them. I have seen our instructor, you know, growing through CodeCombat and experiencing from that one on one, you know, classroom and then thriving through their o- other careers, which is, like, uh, technology concentration, and that is just amazing to see that CodeCombat is not only helping student, but as well as the teachers.
[00:24:07] Charlotte Cheng: Oh, that's really great to hear. I agree, like, the two of you, how you're inspiring each other-
[00:24:13] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:24:13] Charlotte Cheng:... I think being in education, that's, that's the... That's what keeps me goin' is just I'm always learning, like, today, from you Luka, from other people, just working with students, working with teachers. So, I'm glad you guys get to continue this relationship. [laughs]
[00:24:28] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]. And let me tell you, Luka is a very wise student of mine. I call him wise soul. He's super empathetic at heart and his resilience to new thing is a kind of student which is, like, a ideal student every teacher would like to have. And at the same time, his communication skills, the self-awareness and the solution minded approach to entire learning is just... It's, it's just outstanding. It serves him the best, and at the same time, it inspires any teacher. So, when I'm not available, then if any substitute teacher is there with Luka, they gave me the same kind of feedback. They said, "This is just amazing to see him work." It's like a student-centered kind of learning. He is, you know, taking that path and sh- and showing the progress, and if he's stuck, he will ask. So, then that just entire journey of Luka, it just gave me a newer perspective that how student-centered learning through Zoom, through online medium is possible, you know? It's not just in the classroom, but now the learning has shifted and world is changing and through Zoom even, we can make that kind of student-centered learning.
[00:25:40] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:25:40] Charlotte Cheng: Awesome. Did you have any last words, Luka?
[00:25:42] Luka Korbelin: Well, yeah, you gotta be like Ami, you have to be, like... She's really patient and she's a great coder and she's good at explaining. And I think she's just really, like, really nice, too.
[00:25:55] Ami Dave-Patel: [laughs]
[00:25:55] Luka Korbelin: She's really awesome. I learn a lot.
[00:25:57] Charlotte Cheng: Yeah, I agree. You need to be nice, that's [laughs]... Like, a very kind instructor.
[00:26:03] Luka Korbelin: Yeah.
[00:26:03] Charlotte Cheng: And circle back to patience, right? You gotta be patient. [laughs]
[00:26:06] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. [laughs]
[00:26:06] Charlotte Cheng: All right. Well, thank you so much for your time. I sure learned a lot and all the best with your coding adventures together.
[00:26:15] Luka Korbelin: Yeah. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
[00:26:17] Ami Dave-Patel: Thank you.
[00:26:20] Charlotte Cheng: Thanks for listening to EdTech Adventures. Please subscribe to catch more of our episodes and leave a review to support the show. For more resources and info, visit us at CodeCombat.com/podcast. I'm your host, Charlotte Cheng. We'll see you on our next learning adventure.
