speaker-0: Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Decline Invite, the only invite worth accepting. I'm your host, the extroverted IT leader, Ryan Drumheller. And today's episode is is really interesting one because we're diving into the intersection of technology, human performance, neural feedback, ADHD, AI, and leadership. My guest today is Ofer Lidski, founder and CEO of Excellent Brain. Ofer has a background spanning cybersecurity, software architecture, brain computer interaction, neurotechnology, and entrepreneurship. What makes this conversation unique is that he's someone who understands both advanced technology systems and the human mind itself. So be prepared to absorb everything that we talk about with focus and emotional regulation, cognitive performance, ADHD, brain training, and the future of neuro. Technology and honestly, where humans fit into all this and how AI continues to accelerate around us. So, Ofer, it's a pleasure to have you here today. Welcome to Deep Finding.
speaker-1: Thank you very much, Ryan. It's an honor for me to be on your show.
speaker-0: I'm looking forward to this, especially as an individual. I think we we talked pre-show that I have ADHD. I think it's pretty apparent, and I'm looking forward to a lot of the answers that I might get here today. So going right into it, we'd like to go into ⁓ a few icebreakers. So you spent years focused on software, cybersecurity, and systems. What originally fascinated you about the
speaker-1: Well, my my background is ⁓ software development and and cybersecurity. ⁓ I actually started programming when I was seven years old and ⁓ I moved on. I I had my first job at the computer company when I was twelve. And by the age of twenty I opened my first company ⁓ which then dealt with ⁓ computer gaming and then I moved more and more into cybersecurity, which is ⁓ I believe a very challenging area today because of AI. I also have a company which is called TerraSafe that deals with secured backup for businesses where I always say that ⁓ at the end of the day the last resort for a company is to have a secured backup that you can always restore your data and get back on the feet because not all the security systems will always work. There is no hundred percent of security.
speaker-0: Everything you just said makes me feel like I I'm a slacker and I'm very behind ⁓ very behind the game, but ⁓ that's amazing. Like to to be starting that soon and you know, ⁓ to evolve that quickly and everything you said about cybersecurity, it's such a scary time. ⁓ I've talked about it with a few ⁓ other shows and just fighting fighting security with AI against AI, that's just terrifying. That's the end of the day. What was the moment that you realized that the human brain might actually be the most complex system to optimize?
speaker-1: Well, I like to research stuff and I'm I've been studying science and technology for all my life. And at a certain stage, especially when my son was in special education and it was pretty hard, I started looking into the brain, into the human brain, and I found ⁓ a universe by itself. The human brain is the most complex system that known to men in the universe. And ⁓ each brain has like 86 billion neurons with hundreds of trillions of ⁓ synaptic connections between them. It's a system, you know, you can ⁓ spend your whole life learning. And then then I found out about neurofeedback, which ⁓ has been around for a long time, but it's still ⁓ pretty unknown. Most people never heard that there is a brain training technology based on brain waves that can really improve certain aspects of ⁓ of the brain. And I dove into it and it started about fifteen years ago when I learned about neurofeedback ⁓ professionally in the university, and then I decided to establish Excellent Brain in twenty fifteen with a clear vision to make a difference in the domain of ADHD.
speaker-0: music to my ears 'cause ⁓ there's a lot of times I'll use the phrase it's a blessing and a curse. ⁓ that depending on what we're talking about, the time of day and, you know, whether or not my gas tank is full or my batteries recharged or not. ⁓ so did you always know that you'd end up in neurotechnology or is that more about like the events that kind of unraveled in your life that that kind of took you to
speaker-1: Well, I didn't know that when I was kid a kid. I was in more into technology and science and less into ⁓ biology and to the human brain. But then it connected at a certain ⁓ place and ⁓ and it's amazing because you can learn about the brain and it it's endless. as you go down and into more layers every time a new world is revealed and you have to learn so much information. And the brain is so complex. That ⁓ there is still mostly unknown. I mean, nobody even really knows how a one neuron completely works. There are different theories and it's still under research, but ⁓ you know there is a lot to research and to know more about the brain. And we are in very exciting times because ⁓ brain ⁓ scientific technology is is really rapidly advancing, and ⁓ there are You know, devices like FMRI and different stuff that really ⁓ lets us look into the brain when it's working and and ⁓ the knowledge is getting bigger and bigger from day to day.
speaker-0: That's ⁓ it's really fascinating and awesome to hear and and I'm really curious and I might wait on this question, ⁓ just kind of how maybe AI might be helping that, ⁓ you know, if at all, I I would imagine in some regards. ⁓ but it's fascinating to hear, especially with so many different brain ⁓ I guess, situations or things that can happen or ⁓ even trying to train it and make it, you know, stronger, better, faster, why you know whatever it is, ⁓ like you said, there's just so many different hearing. So many different things that we don't know. ⁓ I guess the only other thing that comes to my mind is like the deep sea. Like still so much to explore out there, but the human mind just like I walk with the human mind, right? Like until I stop and think about it, it's like, yeah, there's a lot that can happen. And why did they feel this way all of a sudden? It just came on. Like what you know, how can you trigger and you you know, maybe you don't know those reasons or catch those reasons and it's just so much. ⁓ So you've talked about, you know, upgrading the human operating system. So what does that actually mean?
speaker-1: Well, ⁓ those are slogans because ⁓ let's say that the human brain and a computer system is ⁓ completely different. And by the way, many people today they really don't get it and they make ⁓ this mistake of thinking that ⁓ computer system and ⁓ specifically AI has something to do with how the brain works. And it's not really true. I mean it's a complete different system. And ⁓ AI for me, I call it an expert system because it's a system that solves certain problems very good, but still it has nothing to compare to the human brain. The human brain is something that ⁓ we're we're still trying to figure out and see how it works. And I always ⁓ think about the fact that ⁓ scientists they they've developed neural networks on a computer. And it's like to take the architecture of a neuron and and to put it on a computer. But if we still don't know how one neuron works, how can you develop such a system on a computer? So it's much simpler system than the brain. It's just ⁓ some kind of an architect architecture that works, but but it really has nothing to do with how the brain works. Also, I did study a lot about ⁓ the human language. From Noam Chomsky and different scientists that made breakthrough in in that in those fields. And you can see that the way that an AI system works is completely different than how language works for for humans. And I believe there is a long, long way until AI, for example, will be conscious. ⁓ I mean, consciousness is something that ⁓ we all have, but no one on the planet knows what consciousness is. So There's a lot of mystery to be solved. but AI certainly have break ⁓ great breakthroughs in the past five years. And it's ⁓ really helping in certain scientific ⁓ areas. For example, ⁓ proteins, how they work, how they fold. There are big breakthroughs there with AI. ⁓ even general LLMs today, they they give better answers than most of the family doctors to to different diagnosis. So so ⁓ it's a very cool system and of course everyone uses it, including me. But I really ⁓ make the differences between the human brain and a computerized system. It's a different ballgame.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, no, I absolutely ⁓ I mean the fact that we can map out, like you said, the technology part of the the the the computer, you know, architecture, any anything in that regard, but we can't figure it out yet, you know, in inside of our own brains, of our own human bodies, yeah, I I I agree. One one is a little bit easier than the other at the moment. ⁓ and there's a reason why we've made a lot of advances in technology, right? Versus maybe the human mind at this point. ⁓ so This is a good segue. Do you ⁓ do you think that the modern technology is improving ⁓ you know, attention spans are damaging?
speaker-1: Yeah, now we're getting into the attention domain. So ⁓ I want to make ⁓ a very clear distinction. There is a degradation in the ability of attention for most of the people in Western countries in the past twenty years, mainly because of technology. ⁓ you know, ⁓ smartphones, WhatsApp, TikTok, all these screens. We have So much information that we consume on a daily basis, and it wasn't like that twenty or thirty years ago. And people are having problems with their attention today. Almost anyone. For example, I used to read a lot of books, and in the past years it's almost impossible to read a book. I mean, it's too slow, it's too boring. You you you you get information so quickly from from the AI and from TikTok and from different social networks. So this is a worldwide problem. For all humans. And then there is ADHD. ⁓ ADHD is a special thing that has ⁓ probably a genetic disposition. And people with ADHD, they're really have a tough time with their attention. And this is something that is getting more known to science and in the ⁓ DSM 5. ⁓ they already know a lot more about it. ⁓ and so we have to make this distinction between ADHD. And the degradation of attention for for humans, these are different conditions.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean as somebody with ADHD, I went on who well when I was a child, there was only like one medication and it made me almost like a zombie. ⁓ it totally changed me. ⁓ so I guess it worked in that regard, but I was no longer me. ⁓ and I went along yeah, I'm yeah, with that man's because I just thought the dad really made any means any I don't know, maybe that experience also probably sat into my mind of just a little weary. ⁓ you know, a few years back and I finally tried some deep meds and I I I guess they've really improved because I didn't really think that it needed defense and last further while
speaker-1: I really have to say a little bit about the ⁓ the drug treatment for ADHD, which ⁓ started way back. ⁓ and let's say if we look on ⁓ Ritalin or or ⁓ stuff like that, the the active material there is called methylfenidat, and it's a molecule that gets into the brain, into the synaptic connections between neurons, changes the regulation of dopamine, and ⁓ the result is better attention. But Because this material goes to almost the entire brain, there is a lot of side effects. So ⁓ and this is what you felt. And ⁓ there are people which these drugs save their life and they could not go to the school system without that. But the big question today, especially by the way, in the United States and in Israel, which are at the top in the world for drug treatment for kids, the question is from the One hundred percent of kids and adolescents that get the drug, how many do really need that or maybe they can do with something else? And I believe ⁓ this is a very tough question to answer, ⁓ and and there are big forces behind it.
speaker-0: It yeah, I I very much agree with ⁓ and you know, at what percentage do we need this versus maybe ⁓ you know, it's not it's not a one size catch all kind of bucket. ⁓ you know, I've met others that are similar spectrums and like we're we're all a little bit different. So it's ⁓ I mean, like like you said, there's still so much to learn. ⁓ it's come it's come a long ways from my childhood, but still so I can still see so much longer to go. ⁓ and yeah, really, really curious to get to ⁓ our next segment in just a moment. ⁓ but what do you think that leaders ⁓ misunderstand the most when when it comes to mental performance ⁓ you know of any of their employees?
speaker-1: So from the domain I come from in leadership and I've been studying leadership for over twenty-five years and doing different courses and practicing and and and actually it really it comes down to the daily practice if if you wanna get to the next level. So in in terms of performance, I believe there is something which is mostly not really known to most people and it has to do with integrity. Now, integrity as ⁓ as I know it. It has to do with honoring your word. And ⁓ there are all already research ⁓ in psychology and more regarding the connection between integrity and performance. So ⁓ I always say nothing works without integrity. And if you check that and you get to the conclusion that I'm correct, it means that integrity Is something very important for the life of a person. And most people are in the place where they see integrity as nice to have. It's a good thing. But they don't understand it's a must-have, especially in regards to performance. So there are no performance without integrity. Not that integrity is the only ingredient in performance, but without integrity, nothing works. So A lot of my lecturing about leadership is about integrity. It's about this doing the work in your life. How do you go to your next level in the domain of integrity? And integrity is like a mountain without a top. You always have the next level. It doesn't matter who you are and what you are on this planet. Any person has his next level in integrity. And sometimes it is hidden. It's in the place where you don't know that you don't know. And ⁓ so I really think that integrity is a very basic ingredient in terms of performance.
speaker-0: Yeah. I I I mean, if you don't have integrity, I don't know how I can like all the other mental pieces kind of fall by the wayside at that point, 'cause then I start second guessing. Do I think you're going to? I mean, you've already let me down before. If you don't have integrity, yeah, I I can see the connection there for sure. ⁓ so ⁓ now getting to some part of the segments that I I was trying to avoid and ⁓ you know, save it for a second here. For people hearing ⁓ the term neurofeedback for the first time, what actually is that?
speaker-1: Well, neurofeedback is a brain training method that was developed in the late 70s and early 80s, very long time ago. And it's a system based on positive feedback based on your brain waves. So as science went along in the study of EEG, of the brainwave ⁓ of the of the brain, ⁓ we now really understand and see the difference, for example, between a brain who has ADHD. And a normal brain with ⁓ good performance, cognitive performance. So in neurofeedback, what you're trying to do is the trainee sits in front of the computer, he has these electr electrodes on his ⁓ head, the electrodes read the brain waves, they transmit it to the computer, and the trainee gets ⁓ a positive feedback in real time. It's like a small mirror into the brain, into your brain in real time. And and then for example, what we do in Excellent Brain is we developed a platform that you train your attention. So for example, you have on the screen a car and you concentrate with your brain like a Jedi from Star Wars, you concentrate, the car starts to drive. Once you lose your attention, you have a distraction, either internal or or external, the car will stop and you have to bring yourself back to that point again. And you repeat that process ⁓ twenty minutes twice a week for at least thirty sessions. And this really improves your ability to get into attention and to stay there for longer. And then you see the results in terms of your cognitive performance, which means, for example, you can read ⁓ instead of one page in a book, you can read ten pages in a book or stuff like that. So you really improve your performance in school and in life.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's that's very interesting and it it kinda makes sense 'cause ⁓ I feel like I'm a very routine individual and once I develop a routine and I get into that, just becomes like a natural subset for me. But for me to get into it, I imagine my car stopping quite a bit at this point.
speaker-1: At the beginning for all of us, but then then you you will improve. Everyone improves. By the way, the improvement will be much bigger if you have ADHD. Because if you are normal and your attention works normally, then the improvement will be small. You're already at your almost peak performance. But if you have ADHD and you have problems with your attention, you have a chance to really improve it because ⁓ you're you're coming from a lower place and and and this is why it's so wonderful. And There are no side effects to this kind of ⁓ training because you you do the work yourself, bottom up. You cannot hurt your brain. ⁓ and and and it's like a present for life because ⁓ the training that you do stays for a long time, usually a few years. So ⁓ it it's worth the work and and it's amazing to see that, especially on kids who suffer in school and stuff like that.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I imagine, especially for a child. I remember what it was like for me. I I can't imagine going back through that and not having at least what I have now. so you know, with ⁓ you know, individuals that are struggling with ADHD or focus, ⁓ what are some of the issues that you've seen so far ⁓ from your perspective or or from, you know, your work?
speaker-1: Well, AG ADHD is is sometimes pretty tough for people. we see that ⁓ in in some very harsh statistics. I can give you some really statistics from from here in Israel. ⁓ I checked it out and and it's it's it it's like that. seventy-five percent of people in jail have ADHD. And the regular statistics for adults is about five to ten percent. So then I thought, what's going on? Why why is it like that? And and it seems that kids with ADHD who don't don't take care of that. ⁓ at a certain point they they get ⁓ you know, eject from school and and then they find themselves at a bad place with bad people and they get into crime. So in jail, seventy five percent of of p of the people have ADHD. So ⁓ it really affects the the lives of people and their future and the possibility in life. And ⁓ this is why our DNA in Excellent Brain is really to make a difference and to improve people's lives with neurofeedback. ⁓ and it's something that really I created from my study of leadership. ⁓ I see it as something that ⁓ is part of of leadership here on on this planet.
speaker-0: I think that makes a lot of sense. Like at first it was like that's a staggering statistic. And then I thought about all of the things just really rapidly in my brain. ⁓ what are the pros? ⁓ and then I'm like, yeah, no, I I I I think if I didn't try to get a handle on this or like try to work on some of the things, yeah, who knows where it would have went. ⁓ 'cause at times it it is kind of like a lot of voice I don't want to call it voices, but like You just feel like there's a lot going on, I guess, at times. ⁓ and if you don't know how to like channel or you know, you try to funnel that into some kind of good or quiet or just sit back, like whatever works for you, then it become overwhelming and yeah, I I guess individuals who don't know how to handle somebody like that naturally, you know, hey, you're disrupting everybody and one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another. Yeah, yeah, I can very easily see that. That's that's unfortunate, really. ⁓ what shall we
speaker-1: Yeah, and and if you also think about what a child goes through once they stick the label on him that he has ADHD and and what he thinks about himself and and so on and this is harsh.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I think I I think that was a lot, especially younger, where now I just feel like it that's a great question for this because n now I feel like it's been around or at least been out there and just publicly for quite a while that I I don't think it's as like horribly damaging. It's like, ⁓ I have ADHD is not the same as some of these other labels now. But so like we're seeing a lot more diagnosis of of like ADHD it seems like over the years. Do you think that it's like modern environments that are creating the cognitive overload, or do we actually think that we just had this many individuals that were out there and we're just eas more easily ⁓ you know, identifying that now?
speaker-1: Well, I think it's both. ⁓ first of all, the diagnosis has became become better and ⁓ we know a lot more about it today than before. So ⁓ and and and it's much more precise. So so this is ⁓ one one one ⁓ side. ⁓ the other side, I don't know how much scientific basis there is to it, but I believe that ⁓ the food that we eat, the processed food. And and and and different elements ⁓ really ⁓ brought us to this place that ⁓ ADHD is a pandemic in in most of the Western world.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean is somebody sitting in the US and kinda I mean, we're kinda going through eliminating certain things right now that it's like yeah, how in the world is sawdust and things like this in our food? That just seems insane. At the end of the day that like we're eating chemicals and eating things that you wouldn't just walk over and pick up a a handful of sawdust and be like, you know, there's
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: So I I I definitely wonder, yeah, how yeah, it's like to your point, how much of that is impacting that? ⁓ yeah, it's like you said, there's it's fascinating. There's a lot that we still haven't learned. There's a lot that we have learned to at least keep it to whatever percentage ⁓ of better. I think there's a long ways to go. And as somebody who can just it's like a button today, maybe wear a device and feel ⁓ you know, an overwhelming sense of calm come over me. It's like we'd have to like force the environment some ways to work for me someday is to get home. ⁓ yeah. When that day comes where I like to hit a button or take or take a magic pill or whatever it is.
speaker-1: So I I think the nice thing is that people with their ADHD, especially the ones who are listening to us right now, they should know that they can have a bright future. I mean, ⁓ they they can really improve ⁓ this and they can work on themselves and get to the next level and work on that and and you know, and also as you said, there are also good sides to ADHD. There it's it's known that ⁓ creativity. People with ADHD are much more creative, ⁓ because they have a lot of ideas and their their brain is running from thought to thought and so ⁓ there they're also good sides. And ⁓ if you have ADHD you have to know ⁓ how to ⁓ be on the good side and work on the bad sides and ⁓ and get better.
speaker-0: said it before a while back that ⁓ my brain feels like if you ever watch the Kentucky Derby or you've ever watched a horse race when there's a bunch of horses running, I've got a lot of horses, so you're absolutely right. I can fire off all kinds of things. As soon as one of those horses veers off and smash it in the other horse or they run into the wall though. That's the other side of the equation. That happens too.
speaker-1: So always bet on the one who's going to win.
speaker-0: Yeah, yes, yeah. When when they're running well, that's the one. ⁓ where do you see neurotechnology heading over the next five to ten years?
speaker-1: Well, I believe that it is going to be the decade of neurofeedback in the future, in the near future, because it's getting much more affordable, accessible, usable. And by the way, that's the innovation of Excellent Brain. That's exactly that. We created the most ⁓ accessible platform in the world ⁓ to to make to make it easy for almost anyone to use this wonderful technology. And ⁓ and if we look Outside of X-Men on different technologies, we can see that there's a lot of companies who develop different brain devices. I believe that in the future, maybe your even your sunglasses could read your brain waves and give you some feedback. And ⁓ there is also the dark side. If you look on ⁓ companies like Neuralink, who ⁓ develop brain implants. that the people are going to implant in their brain and then they connect you to the internet and maybe you can search Google with thinking or I don't know crazy stuff like that. So ⁓ there's a lot coming up, that's for sure.
speaker-0: Yeah, that that one scares me and I'm like I'm just envisioning of me putting s a device in my head and it just like getting fried and overloaded and steam's coming out of the side of my ears or something. just knowing how my brain goes.
speaker-1: Or maybe if you you don't ⁓ pay the subscription y you you get ⁓ advertisements to your brain.
speaker-0: ⁓ no, yeah. I'm replaying nightmares in my mind right now of like just get to what I want. so how d how do you see ⁓ AI accelerating the space? ⁓ you know, today or or maybe where you might see it possibly go?
speaker-1: So ⁓ there's so much talk about ⁓ AI and it's really hard to see the truth. What what is going on b behind that? I mean, if we look like three years ago, they predicted that ⁓ that's it, it's over, people are not going to have work in any job because AI is going to replace any everyone and and of course there are some changes in in certain fields, but ⁓ as we see it at the current stage, ⁓ there is a big way there. ⁓ I I I know that even today with the most sophisticated AI, ⁓ AI cannot have a phone conversation with a human without the human identifying it within five seconds that it's AI. ⁓ so it's a wonderful technology, but ⁓ we have to use it in the right way and we have to educate people about how using this technology because ⁓ there were already very horrific Incidents of people falling in love with a virtual AI girlfriend or stuff like that, which is crazy. And a lot of people think that AI has ⁓ feelings and maybe he likes them or whatever crazy stuff they they think. And ⁓ everyone must understand that there is no computer in the world that has feelings or can understand anything. It's all statistics and mathematics on large databases. That's it. But the results are wonderful. And ⁓ and use it in the right way.
speaker-0: Yeah, I've seen some of those same articles and and more or worse in a lot of regards to to remember that like, yeah, it is really good at doing some of the things that that you should be using it for. Those those are the should be using it for. The really manual tasks to get them to automated, or the really slow thinking, you know, tasks and get ⁓ best. But in terms of talking to any, you know, L L ⁓ or anything like that. Yeah, it's always trying to please me and tell me all these great things and it's dangerous. Like we we we have some other things to work out from the humanality side of that when it comes to when it comes to machines and
speaker-1: Yeah, you're you're on a great point here because a lot of people say that ⁓ the biggest danger to humanity is AI. And I think about it and I think it's crazy that they think like that, because ⁓ the biggest ⁓ threat to the humankind are two things nuclear bombs and the state of the earth, the ecology. I mean, th these are the real dangers that we see in front of us, and ⁓ it's certainly not AI. Of course, don't connect AI to the nuclear bombs. But the danger around AI is people believing that this thing has consciousness and it and it has feelings and you know and and that that's the I think the biggest danger at the current stage.
speaker-0: Yeah, and it doesn't. It's for those individuals that that do understand that ⁓ you know, I've been championing, you know, AI can be good at the same time we're losing the humanality portion from that. ⁓ at no point do I wake up ⁓ have a problem and I need to call somebody or contact me. And I really hope I get AI. I'm not I'm not there yet. Like I want another human.
speaker-1: Yeah, so so it's a great tool that you can use as a second opinion, but ⁓ it doesn't replace special help and doctors and ⁓ you know, it's it's a very good for for second opinion.
speaker-0: Y yeah, that the doctor thing scares me. But yeah, absolutely. So ⁓ so do you think that normalizing brain training could be possibly the same way that we normalize physical fitness in the future?
speaker-1: For sure. I mean, like like you train your body, everyone needs to train their brain. And ⁓ there is a very known sentence in brain science, which is called use it or lose it. So our brain works that way. When you use it, it will improve and you'll get better. And when you don't use it, it it degrades. And ⁓ I can give a very good example that has to do with navigation. ⁓ In the past we used to navigate from our memory or with maps when we drive the roads and we asked people how do I get there and I have to remember that. Today we are in a stage where people don't go don't know how to drive back from the supermarket to their home without putting ⁓ ways or ⁓ Google Maps or whatever. And ⁓ research already shows that the place in the brain that has to do with navigation has Frank. It's getting smaller because we don't use it. So and and this this is for everything. And I think that another downside of AI is that students today they don't need to learn anymore. They just ask AI and they get a real time answer and they don't have to remember anything or learn anything. They just ⁓ use the smartphone, get the answer. And ⁓ I'm really afraid that ⁓ their cognitive performance will also degrade because of that.
speaker-0: Yeah, no, I mean it's a good point. ⁓ most of us probably are plugging things in and and not even thinking about it. But if I had to remove that, you know, from your possession and then said, Okay, go ahead and and and do like what it was when I was growing up where that didn't exist yet. It was just a pull down lap if you had it, or I'm looking at landmarks and remembrance of like, ⁓ yeah, that means I turn the next, you know, mile ahead or or whatever it was. Yeah, we're not thinking about that anymore. It's a very good
speaker-1: Yeah, if you take the smartphone a phone from a a teenager, it's like you've taken one of their arms. I mean, it's like ⁓ a limb in your body. I mean it's it's crazy. I mean for all of us. I mean we're so connected to this device that it it's it became a part of us. And ⁓ and ⁓ so I believe that brain training is highly important, ⁓ to really ⁓ keep the brain in shape.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I I would agree. Like whenever I'm trying to learn something, I kinda go into a certain routine that works for me, ⁓ and I come out of it accomplishing that goal. ⁓ but if I didn't have it in front of me whatsoever, or like to your point, I just went to AI and looked it up, I'd have it immediately and then a week from now I'd be gone. You know, it wouldn't be like going through the routine, the regulars, you know, the emotion, the struggle. So you've led technical teams.
speaker-1: Exactly.
speaker-0: and companies for years. What leadership lessons stand out most you this
speaker-1: Well, there's still and it's the most important, the human touch. The connections between human. And ⁓ and and I think it's still the most important thing because at the current stage, companies are built out of people. So the human connection and ⁓ and to be empathic and to to have the right connection with your employees and colleagues I believe it's ⁓ the number one factor still until ⁓ AI will take over.
speaker-0: I'm with you. Like that's that's how I've always tried to lead is ⁓ remembering that there's another human that you're speaking with. ⁓ remember to put yourselves in their shoes. ⁓ and and in a lot of cases, especially being a technology, ⁓ you know, from teams that I've led, we we've been like internal IT. So everybody's coming to us with with things that are broke, they're not working, they're stressed out. You know, it was never really us. They just have we were the ones that they had to come speak to to get it fixed. We always we'll solder emotions, ⁓ you know aggressive emotions at the steering. And I would always try to flip that script the best we could. Like we figure out a way to make your days bigger. We figure out a way to make your careers less stressful. Things like that. And and then we become empathic because then we're talking along the way. We're talking about, you know, hey kids or vacations or or whatever it might be. And then we become humans again. The anti what we're seeing with
speaker-1: I I heard in one of your podcasts that you talked about that ⁓ as you go higher in the rank of IT, it doesn't you you don't use the the day to day ⁓ technology. It's it's all about using technology to solve problems and and ⁓ and talking to people and ⁓ and it's the human touch that's that's behind it.
speaker-0: It's controversial ⁓ in the in the IT space. All of those human you know connection pieces are gonna get you farther, ⁓ especially right talk about a lot of things before we die, but we we we all understand the snaps you can you use it along with being a human and being able to mix that tool in that it can be a really good thing. It can be a really dangerous thing with the sun and being able to guide that from a humanality scene to me. It comes back to more I it really comes back to just being another demon like another human. And making sure the we're just trying to help one another. Get through the day, get through ⁓ a goal, get through whatever it is and we're teammates, just makes it work on something. I try, ⁓ to push that message as much as
speaker-1: I I get you. ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ so what do you think separates leaders who build healthy organizations from those that actually create chaos?
speaker-1: Well, ⁓ that's a very big question. But ⁓ I think is that ⁓ to understand that everyone is equal and ⁓ you know mo a lot of bosses and leaders they sit at at the top and they don't have the direct connections to all of the people in the company and ⁓ there is like a big space there. ⁓ so I believe a leader has to walk the talk, you know, he has to show himself, he has to be there. to be as much connected to his team and ⁓ to be one of the team and and not above people.
speaker-0: can't co sign that more. get out from the Ivory Tower, I like to say it, and yeah, try to try to hear what the real struggles are, ⁓ what's affecting somebody that day. And I as somebody with ADHD, I understand way more I guess one of the pros of of going through the struggles of ADHD is I understand that people aren't going to have it every single day. There's gonna be good days and bad days and I and I hope that it can help me get to more good so With that, what do you think the best leadership trait is, ⁓ for somebody in a leadership position?
speaker-1: Well, first of all, I think that leadership is something different than regular knowledge. So ⁓ if you wanna learn leadership, ⁓ it's not in school. You can have a PhD in leadership and that does not make you a leader. There is something else there. And ⁓ I believe that it is it ⁓ it relies on the domain of being of ⁓ of of being a leader. Which is something completely different than learning and to know about how a leader acts. So and and it takes a lot of practice. ⁓ but but ⁓ at the end of the day is to be on the court and to do your best every day and ⁓ and just and just be there. ⁓ and and not ⁓ sit around and tell everyone what to do.
speaker-0: Yeah, there's some there's some points of that there that kinda cut deep for me, but ⁓ yeah, I I I co sign everything you say and I normally sum it up as try to put a little bit of good out into the world every single day, just a little bit of fun. And that'll add up over time. Well don't bark orders in direction, like it's a very easy thing to do. I mean nine times out of ten they're not reading those things that we don't know already.
speaker-1: Yeah, the human connection is the most important thing and ⁓ when when you lead people you have to go first in front, not in the back.
speaker-0: line so to speak, right? so w what do you think is the most underrated habit for mental performance?
speaker-1: Well, I'll get back to integrity. I'm ⁓ I'm Mr. Integrity, really. I'm I've been working on that for fifteen years. And ⁓ every day I learn something new and and I I get ⁓ to see where is my next level and I lecture about it. And when you have to lecture, you really have to know it and you have to walk the talk and and and be there. So I actually I really think that if someone takes something out of our show today is to really go and learn how to work on integrity, what integrity is. ⁓ you can read about it. ⁓ there are ⁓ different research papers and it's called integrity as a positive model and and it has ⁓ a direct ⁓ access to your performance in life and actually in in in every aspect of life.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I I definitely believe that. as somebody who wants to be seen on one side of the fence when everything is all over and done with, I wanna be seen as the individual that helped individuals, everything that I tried to put out in the world, I followed, I walked, I talked as you said, ⁓ I I truly believe that I didn't just you know, use car salesmen or marketing to jargon or whatever. Like I actually lived that life. ⁓ I and I I do truly believe integrity can also mean ⁓ I think it's a good point, maybe, ⁓ that you can say that you can't do something for this reason and that's that's having integrity. You're not trying to, you know, do something and fail at it that you know out of the gate you're already in trouble with. Having integrity is making sure that you understand.
speaker-1: It's to take full responsibility.
speaker-0: Right, right. Yeah, I love that. Love it. ⁓ so what does success mean to you today? With with everything you've done in your career and what you still wanna accomplish, what what does success look like for you?
speaker-1: Well, first of all, ⁓ there's still a long way. ⁓ I'm in the process of scaling up excellent brain worldwide. We currently sell in fifteen countries and we have a lot of work to do in in terms of of that. But I I see success as the the impact that you do on people in the world. A good impact. That that's success for me above everything. ⁓ how can I help as many people as possible and really improve their lives and and you know and be a positive ⁓ impact on them?
speaker-0: I I say if like we can put a little bit of good in the world every single day, if I can help maybe even one person a day, one person a week, whatever it is, the more of us that are doing that, the more people we can reach and really make a difference and change. ⁓ some days it can be hard, but I keep coming and doing it and I keep you know, I keep staying and doing it because once you have reached somebody and you hear those great things, it just It doesn't matter what the bad was at that point I wan I want to get. ⁓ so, ⁓ last question. What is a piece of advice that you would give somebody maybe going through a DHD or wants to improve ⁓ mental capacity, mental strength, you know, what is a piece of advice that you would give them right now, especially as you're somebody out there trying to change the world with
speaker-1: So I I believe the most important thing is that they should know and really know that they can improve and change. It's possible. So wherever you are, at what stage you are, whether it's bad or good or whatever, you can always improve and you can work. Just do the work, believe in yourself, and the results will come.
speaker-0: Absolutely love that. ⁓ I mean just start, right? And then eventually, as it adds up, hopefully you get there. And you will if you if you want it badly enough, I think.
speaker-1: Just start. That that's the that's the thing, really. If you start do something, just do something and and c and continue doing it. And you know, ⁓ discipline is ⁓ much more effective than motivation. So ⁓ as long you know, just be disciplined as as you can and you'll you'll get results for sure. I promise that.
speaker-0: Absolutely, absolutely love that. I I I co sign that. I it's one of the things I normally say too is just just start. So it doesn't even matter if you have the plan or the plan changes, we'll we'll work on that. But if you start, then you we're already we're already rolling the boat together, we're already you know, the wheel's already turning, what whatever the analogy you want to use. ⁓ we're at least headed in a direction.
speaker-1: Complete.
speaker-0: So Oprah, this has been honestly a a fascinating conversation. ⁓ I mean it sits right at the intersection of technology, leadership, human performance, and you know, even where the future is headed. So I I greatly appreciate you for sharing both the technical and human side of the conversation. Where can people connect with you and learn more about excellent brain and and anything else that you have going on?
speaker-1: Sure, so the the easiest way is to go to our website, which is www dot excellent dashbrain dot com and ⁓ they can contact us. They can read a lot of information about neural feedback and they can even contact me directly.
speaker-0: Absolutely love that and I'll make sure to we include that ⁓ into the release of the episode. ⁓ I'm gonna check it out even further as somebody who can ⁓ always use an improvement as as I sit here and rethink some of the words and how I said them ⁓ every single day. So expect me to check it out and I hope the rest of my listeners do. And we we do have a large ⁓ you know, neurodivergent ⁓ audience, which which I think is fascinating and really great message for everybody. So with that You know, this has been Decline Invite Podcast. ⁓ the meeting is now adjourned. Again, I appreciate you for coming on the show, Oaker. I look forward to trying to stay in and, you know, connection with you. I can't wait to see where you're gonna head and what other things you're gonna you're gonna do and where you're gonna involve the technology in the space. So ⁓ really appreciate it and thank you for taking the time with us today.
speaker-1: Diane, thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Really, I'm honored to be on your show and really thank you for everything.
speaker-0: Much appreciated. Take care everybody. We'll see you again next time.
speaker-1: Thank you very much, Ryan. It's an honor for me to be on your show.
speaker-0: I'm looking forward to this, especially as an individual. I think we we talked pre-show that I have ADHD. I think it's pretty apparent, and I'm looking forward to a lot of the answers that I might get here today. So going right into it, we'd like to go into ⁓ a few icebreakers. So you spent years focused on software, cybersecurity, and systems. What originally fascinated you about the
speaker-1: Well, my my background is ⁓ software development and and cybersecurity. ⁓ I actually started programming when I was seven years old and ⁓ I moved on. I I had my first job at the computer company when I was twelve. And by the age of twenty I opened my first company ⁓ which then dealt with ⁓ computer gaming and then I moved more and more into cybersecurity, which is ⁓ I believe a very challenging area today because of AI. I also have a company which is called TerraSafe that deals with secured backup for businesses where I always say that ⁓ at the end of the day the last resort for a company is to have a secured backup that you can always restore your data and get back on the feet because not all the security systems will always work. There is no hundred percent of security.
speaker-0: Everything you just said makes me feel like I I'm a slacker and I'm very behind ⁓ very behind the game, but ⁓ that's amazing. Like to to be starting that soon and you know, ⁓ to evolve that quickly and everything you said about cybersecurity, it's such a scary time. ⁓ I've talked about it with a few ⁓ other shows and just fighting fighting security with AI against AI, that's just terrifying. That's the end of the day. What was the moment that you realized that the human brain might actually be the most complex system to optimize?
speaker-1: Well, I like to research stuff and I'm I've been studying science and technology for all my life. And at a certain stage, especially when my son was in special education and it was pretty hard, I started looking into the brain, into the human brain, and I found ⁓ a universe by itself. The human brain is the most complex system that known to men in the universe. And ⁓ each brain has like 86 billion neurons with hundreds of trillions of ⁓ synaptic connections between them. It's a system, you know, you can ⁓ spend your whole life learning. And then then I found out about neurofeedback, which ⁓ has been around for a long time, but it's still ⁓ pretty unknown. Most people never heard that there is a brain training technology based on brain waves that can really improve certain aspects of ⁓ of the brain. And I dove into it and it started about fifteen years ago when I learned about neurofeedback ⁓ professionally in the university, and then I decided to establish Excellent Brain in twenty fifteen with a clear vision to make a difference in the domain of ADHD.
speaker-0: music to my ears 'cause ⁓ there's a lot of times I'll use the phrase it's a blessing and a curse. ⁓ that depending on what we're talking about, the time of day and, you know, whether or not my gas tank is full or my batteries recharged or not. ⁓ so did you always know that you'd end up in neurotechnology or is that more about like the events that kind of unraveled in your life that that kind of took you to
speaker-1: Well, I didn't know that when I was kid a kid. I was in more into technology and science and less into ⁓ biology and to the human brain. But then it connected at a certain ⁓ place and ⁓ and it's amazing because you can learn about the brain and it it's endless. as you go down and into more layers every time a new world is revealed and you have to learn so much information. And the brain is so complex. That ⁓ there is still mostly unknown. I mean, nobody even really knows how a one neuron completely works. There are different theories and it's still under research, but ⁓ you know there is a lot to research and to know more about the brain. And we are in very exciting times because ⁓ brain ⁓ scientific technology is is really rapidly advancing, and ⁓ there are You know, devices like FMRI and different stuff that really ⁓ lets us look into the brain when it's working and and ⁓ the knowledge is getting bigger and bigger from day to day.
speaker-0: That's ⁓ it's really fascinating and awesome to hear and and I'm really curious and I might wait on this question, ⁓ just kind of how maybe AI might be helping that, ⁓ you know, if at all, I I would imagine in some regards. ⁓ but it's fascinating to hear, especially with so many different brain ⁓ I guess, situations or things that can happen or ⁓ even trying to train it and make it, you know, stronger, better, faster, why you know whatever it is, ⁓ like you said, there's just so many different hearing. So many different things that we don't know. ⁓ I guess the only other thing that comes to my mind is like the deep sea. Like still so much to explore out there, but the human mind just like I walk with the human mind, right? Like until I stop and think about it, it's like, yeah, there's a lot that can happen. And why did they feel this way all of a sudden? It just came on. Like what you know, how can you trigger and you you know, maybe you don't know those reasons or catch those reasons and it's just so much. ⁓ So you've talked about, you know, upgrading the human operating system. So what does that actually mean?
speaker-1: Well, ⁓ those are slogans because ⁓ let's say that the human brain and a computer system is ⁓ completely different. And by the way, many people today they really don't get it and they make ⁓ this mistake of thinking that ⁓ computer system and ⁓ specifically AI has something to do with how the brain works. And it's not really true. I mean it's a complete different system. And ⁓ AI for me, I call it an expert system because it's a system that solves certain problems very good, but still it has nothing to compare to the human brain. The human brain is something that ⁓ we're we're still trying to figure out and see how it works. And I always ⁓ think about the fact that ⁓ scientists they they've developed neural networks on a computer. And it's like to take the architecture of a neuron and and to put it on a computer. But if we still don't know how one neuron works, how can you develop such a system on a computer? So it's much simpler system than the brain. It's just ⁓ some kind of an architect architecture that works, but but it really has nothing to do with how the brain works. Also, I did study a lot about ⁓ the human language. From Noam Chomsky and different scientists that made breakthrough in in that in those fields. And you can see that the way that an AI system works is completely different than how language works for for humans. And I believe there is a long, long way until AI, for example, will be conscious. ⁓ I mean, consciousness is something that ⁓ we all have, but no one on the planet knows what consciousness is. So There's a lot of mystery to be solved. but AI certainly have break ⁓ great breakthroughs in the past five years. And it's ⁓ really helping in certain scientific ⁓ areas. For example, ⁓ proteins, how they work, how they fold. There are big breakthroughs there with AI. ⁓ even general LLMs today, they they give better answers than most of the family doctors to to different diagnosis. So so ⁓ it's a very cool system and of course everyone uses it, including me. But I really ⁓ make the differences between the human brain and a computerized system. It's a different ballgame.
speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah, no, I absolutely ⁓ I mean the fact that we can map out, like you said, the technology part of the the the the computer, you know, architecture, any anything in that regard, but we can't figure it out yet, you know, in inside of our own brains, of our own human bodies, yeah, I I I agree. One one is a little bit easier than the other at the moment. ⁓ and there's a reason why we've made a lot of advances in technology, right? Versus maybe the human mind at this point. ⁓ so This is a good segue. Do you ⁓ do you think that the modern technology is improving ⁓ you know, attention spans are damaging?
speaker-1: Yeah, now we're getting into the attention domain. So ⁓ I want to make ⁓ a very clear distinction. There is a degradation in the ability of attention for most of the people in Western countries in the past twenty years, mainly because of technology. ⁓ you know, ⁓ smartphones, WhatsApp, TikTok, all these screens. We have So much information that we consume on a daily basis, and it wasn't like that twenty or thirty years ago. And people are having problems with their attention today. Almost anyone. For example, I used to read a lot of books, and in the past years it's almost impossible to read a book. I mean, it's too slow, it's too boring. You you you you get information so quickly from from the AI and from TikTok and from different social networks. So this is a worldwide problem. For all humans. And then there is ADHD. ⁓ ADHD is a special thing that has ⁓ probably a genetic disposition. And people with ADHD, they're really have a tough time with their attention. And this is something that is getting more known to science and in the ⁓ DSM 5. ⁓ they already know a lot more about it. ⁓ and so we have to make this distinction between ADHD. And the degradation of attention for for humans, these are different conditions.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean as somebody with ADHD, I went on who well when I was a child, there was only like one medication and it made me almost like a zombie. ⁓ it totally changed me. ⁓ so I guess it worked in that regard, but I was no longer me. ⁓ and I went along yeah, I'm yeah, with that man's because I just thought the dad really made any means any I don't know, maybe that experience also probably sat into my mind of just a little weary. ⁓ you know, a few years back and I finally tried some deep meds and I I I guess they've really improved because I didn't really think that it needed defense and last further while
speaker-1: I really have to say a little bit about the ⁓ the drug treatment for ADHD, which ⁓ started way back. ⁓ and let's say if we look on ⁓ Ritalin or or ⁓ stuff like that, the the active material there is called methylfenidat, and it's a molecule that gets into the brain, into the synaptic connections between neurons, changes the regulation of dopamine, and ⁓ the result is better attention. But Because this material goes to almost the entire brain, there is a lot of side effects. So ⁓ and this is what you felt. And ⁓ there are people which these drugs save their life and they could not go to the school system without that. But the big question today, especially by the way, in the United States and in Israel, which are at the top in the world for drug treatment for kids, the question is from the One hundred percent of kids and adolescents that get the drug, how many do really need that or maybe they can do with something else? And I believe ⁓ this is a very tough question to answer, ⁓ and and there are big forces behind it.
speaker-0: It yeah, I I very much agree with ⁓ and you know, at what percentage do we need this versus maybe ⁓ you know, it's not it's not a one size catch all kind of bucket. ⁓ you know, I've met others that are similar spectrums and like we're we're all a little bit different. So it's ⁓ I mean, like like you said, there's still so much to learn. ⁓ it's come it's come a long ways from my childhood, but still so I can still see so much longer to go. ⁓ and yeah, really, really curious to get to ⁓ our next segment in just a moment. ⁓ but what do you think that leaders ⁓ misunderstand the most when when it comes to mental performance ⁓ you know of any of their employees?
speaker-1: So from the domain I come from in leadership and I've been studying leadership for over twenty-five years and doing different courses and practicing and and and actually it really it comes down to the daily practice if if you wanna get to the next level. So in in terms of performance, I believe there is something which is mostly not really known to most people and it has to do with integrity. Now, integrity as ⁓ as I know it. It has to do with honoring your word. And ⁓ there are all already research ⁓ in psychology and more regarding the connection between integrity and performance. So ⁓ I always say nothing works without integrity. And if you check that and you get to the conclusion that I'm correct, it means that integrity Is something very important for the life of a person. And most people are in the place where they see integrity as nice to have. It's a good thing. But they don't understand it's a must-have, especially in regards to performance. So there are no performance without integrity. Not that integrity is the only ingredient in performance, but without integrity, nothing works. So A lot of my lecturing about leadership is about integrity. It's about this doing the work in your life. How do you go to your next level in the domain of integrity? And integrity is like a mountain without a top. You always have the next level. It doesn't matter who you are and what you are on this planet. Any person has his next level in integrity. And sometimes it is hidden. It's in the place where you don't know that you don't know. And ⁓ so I really think that integrity is a very basic ingredient in terms of performance.
speaker-0: Yeah. I I I mean, if you don't have integrity, I don't know how I can like all the other mental pieces kind of fall by the wayside at that point, 'cause then I start second guessing. Do I think you're going to? I mean, you've already let me down before. If you don't have integrity, yeah, I I can see the connection there for sure. ⁓ so ⁓ now getting to some part of the segments that I I was trying to avoid and ⁓ you know, save it for a second here. For people hearing ⁓ the term neurofeedback for the first time, what actually is that?
speaker-1: Well, neurofeedback is a brain training method that was developed in the late 70s and early 80s, very long time ago. And it's a system based on positive feedback based on your brain waves. So as science went along in the study of EEG, of the brainwave ⁓ of the of the brain, ⁓ we now really understand and see the difference, for example, between a brain who has ADHD. And a normal brain with ⁓ good performance, cognitive performance. So in neurofeedback, what you're trying to do is the trainee sits in front of the computer, he has these electr electrodes on his ⁓ head, the electrodes read the brain waves, they transmit it to the computer, and the trainee gets ⁓ a positive feedback in real time. It's like a small mirror into the brain, into your brain in real time. And and then for example, what we do in Excellent Brain is we developed a platform that you train your attention. So for example, you have on the screen a car and you concentrate with your brain like a Jedi from Star Wars, you concentrate, the car starts to drive. Once you lose your attention, you have a distraction, either internal or or external, the car will stop and you have to bring yourself back to that point again. And you repeat that process ⁓ twenty minutes twice a week for at least thirty sessions. And this really improves your ability to get into attention and to stay there for longer. And then you see the results in terms of your cognitive performance, which means, for example, you can read ⁓ instead of one page in a book, you can read ten pages in a book or stuff like that. So you really improve your performance in school and in life.
speaker-0: Yeah, that's that's very interesting and it it kinda makes sense 'cause ⁓ I feel like I'm a very routine individual and once I develop a routine and I get into that, just becomes like a natural subset for me. But for me to get into it, I imagine my car stopping quite a bit at this point.
speaker-1: At the beginning for all of us, but then then you you will improve. Everyone improves. By the way, the improvement will be much bigger if you have ADHD. Because if you are normal and your attention works normally, then the improvement will be small. You're already at your almost peak performance. But if you have ADHD and you have problems with your attention, you have a chance to really improve it because ⁓ you're you're coming from a lower place and and and this is why it's so wonderful. And There are no side effects to this kind of ⁓ training because you you do the work yourself, bottom up. You cannot hurt your brain. ⁓ and and and it's like a present for life because ⁓ the training that you do stays for a long time, usually a few years. So ⁓ it it's worth the work and and it's amazing to see that, especially on kids who suffer in school and stuff like that.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I imagine, especially for a child. I remember what it was like for me. I I can't imagine going back through that and not having at least what I have now. so you know, with ⁓ you know, individuals that are struggling with ADHD or focus, ⁓ what are some of the issues that you've seen so far ⁓ from your perspective or or from, you know, your work?
speaker-1: Well, AG ADHD is is sometimes pretty tough for people. we see that ⁓ in in some very harsh statistics. I can give you some really statistics from from here in Israel. ⁓ I checked it out and and it's it's it it's like that. seventy-five percent of people in jail have ADHD. And the regular statistics for adults is about five to ten percent. So then I thought, what's going on? Why why is it like that? And and it seems that kids with ADHD who don't don't take care of that. ⁓ at a certain point they they get ⁓ you know, eject from school and and then they find themselves at a bad place with bad people and they get into crime. So in jail, seventy five percent of of p of the people have ADHD. So ⁓ it really affects the the lives of people and their future and the possibility in life. And ⁓ this is why our DNA in Excellent Brain is really to make a difference and to improve people's lives with neurofeedback. ⁓ and it's something that really I created from my study of leadership. ⁓ I see it as something that ⁓ is part of of leadership here on on this planet.
speaker-0: I think that makes a lot of sense. Like at first it was like that's a staggering statistic. And then I thought about all of the things just really rapidly in my brain. ⁓ what are the pros? ⁓ and then I'm like, yeah, no, I I I I think if I didn't try to get a handle on this or like try to work on some of the things, yeah, who knows where it would have went. ⁓ 'cause at times it it is kind of like a lot of voice I don't want to call it voices, but like You just feel like there's a lot going on, I guess, at times. ⁓ and if you don't know how to like channel or you know, you try to funnel that into some kind of good or quiet or just sit back, like whatever works for you, then it become overwhelming and yeah, I I guess individuals who don't know how to handle somebody like that naturally, you know, hey, you're disrupting everybody and one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another. Yeah, yeah, I can very easily see that. That's that's unfortunate, really. ⁓ what shall we
speaker-1: Yeah, and and if you also think about what a child goes through once they stick the label on him that he has ADHD and and what he thinks about himself and and so on and this is harsh.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I think I I think that was a lot, especially younger, where now I just feel like it that's a great question for this because n now I feel like it's been around or at least been out there and just publicly for quite a while that I I don't think it's as like horribly damaging. It's like, ⁓ I have ADHD is not the same as some of these other labels now. But so like we're seeing a lot more diagnosis of of like ADHD it seems like over the years. Do you think that it's like modern environments that are creating the cognitive overload, or do we actually think that we just had this many individuals that were out there and we're just eas more easily ⁓ you know, identifying that now?
speaker-1: Well, I think it's both. ⁓ first of all, the diagnosis has became become better and ⁓ we know a lot more about it today than before. So ⁓ and and and it's much more precise. So so this is ⁓ one one one ⁓ side. ⁓ the other side, I don't know how much scientific basis there is to it, but I believe that ⁓ the food that we eat, the processed food. And and and and different elements ⁓ really ⁓ brought us to this place that ⁓ ADHD is a pandemic in in most of the Western world.
speaker-0: Yeah, I mean is somebody sitting in the US and kinda I mean, we're kinda going through eliminating certain things right now that it's like yeah, how in the world is sawdust and things like this in our food? That just seems insane. At the end of the day that like we're eating chemicals and eating things that you wouldn't just walk over and pick up a a handful of sawdust and be like, you know, there's
speaker-1: Yeah.
speaker-0: So I I I definitely wonder, yeah, how yeah, it's like to your point, how much of that is impacting that? ⁓ yeah, it's like you said, there's it's fascinating. There's a lot that we still haven't learned. There's a lot that we have learned to at least keep it to whatever percentage ⁓ of better. I think there's a long ways to go. And as somebody who can just it's like a button today, maybe wear a device and feel ⁓ you know, an overwhelming sense of calm come over me. It's like we'd have to like force the environment some ways to work for me someday is to get home. ⁓ yeah. When that day comes where I like to hit a button or take or take a magic pill or whatever it is.
speaker-1: So I I think the nice thing is that people with their ADHD, especially the ones who are listening to us right now, they should know that they can have a bright future. I mean, ⁓ they they can really improve ⁓ this and they can work on themselves and get to the next level and work on that and and you know, and also as you said, there are also good sides to ADHD. There it's it's known that ⁓ creativity. People with ADHD are much more creative, ⁓ because they have a lot of ideas and their their brain is running from thought to thought and so ⁓ there they're also good sides. And ⁓ if you have ADHD you have to know ⁓ how to ⁓ be on the good side and work on the bad sides and ⁓ and get better.
speaker-0: said it before a while back that ⁓ my brain feels like if you ever watch the Kentucky Derby or you've ever watched a horse race when there's a bunch of horses running, I've got a lot of horses, so you're absolutely right. I can fire off all kinds of things. As soon as one of those horses veers off and smash it in the other horse or they run into the wall though. That's the other side of the equation. That happens too.
speaker-1: So always bet on the one who's going to win.
speaker-0: Yeah, yes, yeah. When when they're running well, that's the one. ⁓ where do you see neurotechnology heading over the next five to ten years?
speaker-1: Well, I believe that it is going to be the decade of neurofeedback in the future, in the near future, because it's getting much more affordable, accessible, usable. And by the way, that's the innovation of Excellent Brain. That's exactly that. We created the most ⁓ accessible platform in the world ⁓ to to make to make it easy for almost anyone to use this wonderful technology. And ⁓ and if we look Outside of X-Men on different technologies, we can see that there's a lot of companies who develop different brain devices. I believe that in the future, maybe your even your sunglasses could read your brain waves and give you some feedback. And ⁓ there is also the dark side. If you look on ⁓ companies like Neuralink, who ⁓ develop brain implants. that the people are going to implant in their brain and then they connect you to the internet and maybe you can search Google with thinking or I don't know crazy stuff like that. So ⁓ there's a lot coming up, that's for sure.
speaker-0: Yeah, that that one scares me and I'm like I'm just envisioning of me putting s a device in my head and it just like getting fried and overloaded and steam's coming out of the side of my ears or something. just knowing how my brain goes.
speaker-1: Or maybe if you you don't ⁓ pay the subscription y you you get ⁓ advertisements to your brain.
speaker-0: ⁓ no, yeah. I'm replaying nightmares in my mind right now of like just get to what I want. so how d how do you see ⁓ AI accelerating the space? ⁓ you know, today or or maybe where you might see it possibly go?
speaker-1: So ⁓ there's so much talk about ⁓ AI and it's really hard to see the truth. What what is going on b behind that? I mean, if we look like three years ago, they predicted that ⁓ that's it, it's over, people are not going to have work in any job because AI is going to replace any everyone and and of course there are some changes in in certain fields, but ⁓ as we see it at the current stage, ⁓ there is a big way there. ⁓ I I I know that even today with the most sophisticated AI, ⁓ AI cannot have a phone conversation with a human without the human identifying it within five seconds that it's AI. ⁓ so it's a wonderful technology, but ⁓ we have to use it in the right way and we have to educate people about how using this technology because ⁓ there were already very horrific Incidents of people falling in love with a virtual AI girlfriend or stuff like that, which is crazy. And a lot of people think that AI has ⁓ feelings and maybe he likes them or whatever crazy stuff they they think. And ⁓ everyone must understand that there is no computer in the world that has feelings or can understand anything. It's all statistics and mathematics on large databases. That's it. But the results are wonderful. And ⁓ and use it in the right way.
speaker-0: Yeah, I've seen some of those same articles and and more or worse in a lot of regards to to remember that like, yeah, it is really good at doing some of the things that that you should be using it for. Those those are the should be using it for. The really manual tasks to get them to automated, or the really slow thinking, you know, tasks and get ⁓ best. But in terms of talking to any, you know, L L ⁓ or anything like that. Yeah, it's always trying to please me and tell me all these great things and it's dangerous. Like we we we have some other things to work out from the humanality side of that when it comes to when it comes to machines and
speaker-1: Yeah, you're you're on a great point here because a lot of people say that ⁓ the biggest danger to humanity is AI. And I think about it and I think it's crazy that they think like that, because ⁓ the biggest ⁓ threat to the humankind are two things nuclear bombs and the state of the earth, the ecology. I mean, th these are the real dangers that we see in front of us, and ⁓ it's certainly not AI. Of course, don't connect AI to the nuclear bombs. But the danger around AI is people believing that this thing has consciousness and it and it has feelings and you know and and that that's the I think the biggest danger at the current stage.
speaker-0: Yeah, and it doesn't. It's for those individuals that that do understand that ⁓ you know, I've been championing, you know, AI can be good at the same time we're losing the humanality portion from that. ⁓ at no point do I wake up ⁓ have a problem and I need to call somebody or contact me. And I really hope I get AI. I'm not I'm not there yet. Like I want another human.
speaker-1: Yeah, so so it's a great tool that you can use as a second opinion, but ⁓ it doesn't replace special help and doctors and ⁓ you know, it's it's a very good for for second opinion.
speaker-0: Y yeah, that the doctor thing scares me. But yeah, absolutely. So ⁓ so do you think that normalizing brain training could be possibly the same way that we normalize physical fitness in the future?
speaker-1: For sure. I mean, like like you train your body, everyone needs to train their brain. And ⁓ there is a very known sentence in brain science, which is called use it or lose it. So our brain works that way. When you use it, it will improve and you'll get better. And when you don't use it, it it degrades. And ⁓ I can give a very good example that has to do with navigation. ⁓ In the past we used to navigate from our memory or with maps when we drive the roads and we asked people how do I get there and I have to remember that. Today we are in a stage where people don't go don't know how to drive back from the supermarket to their home without putting ⁓ ways or ⁓ Google Maps or whatever. And ⁓ research already shows that the place in the brain that has to do with navigation has Frank. It's getting smaller because we don't use it. So and and this this is for everything. And I think that another downside of AI is that students today they don't need to learn anymore. They just ask AI and they get a real time answer and they don't have to remember anything or learn anything. They just ⁓ use the smartphone, get the answer. And ⁓ I'm really afraid that ⁓ their cognitive performance will also degrade because of that.
speaker-0: Yeah, no, I mean it's a good point. ⁓ most of us probably are plugging things in and and not even thinking about it. But if I had to remove that, you know, from your possession and then said, Okay, go ahead and and and do like what it was when I was growing up where that didn't exist yet. It was just a pull down lap if you had it, or I'm looking at landmarks and remembrance of like, ⁓ yeah, that means I turn the next, you know, mile ahead or or whatever it was. Yeah, we're not thinking about that anymore. It's a very good
speaker-1: Yeah, if you take the smartphone a phone from a a teenager, it's like you've taken one of their arms. I mean, it's like ⁓ a limb in your body. I mean it's it's crazy. I mean for all of us. I mean we're so connected to this device that it it's it became a part of us. And ⁓ and ⁓ so I believe that brain training is highly important, ⁓ to really ⁓ keep the brain in shape.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I I would agree. Like whenever I'm trying to learn something, I kinda go into a certain routine that works for me, ⁓ and I come out of it accomplishing that goal. ⁓ but if I didn't have it in front of me whatsoever, or like to your point, I just went to AI and looked it up, I'd have it immediately and then a week from now I'd be gone. You know, it wouldn't be like going through the routine, the regulars, you know, the emotion, the struggle. So you've led technical teams.
speaker-1: Exactly.
speaker-0: and companies for years. What leadership lessons stand out most you this
speaker-1: Well, there's still and it's the most important, the human touch. The connections between human. And ⁓ and and I think it's still the most important thing because at the current stage, companies are built out of people. So the human connection and ⁓ and to be empathic and to to have the right connection with your employees and colleagues I believe it's ⁓ the number one factor still until ⁓ AI will take over.
speaker-0: I'm with you. Like that's that's how I've always tried to lead is ⁓ remembering that there's another human that you're speaking with. ⁓ remember to put yourselves in their shoes. ⁓ and and in a lot of cases, especially being a technology, ⁓ you know, from teams that I've led, we we've been like internal IT. So everybody's coming to us with with things that are broke, they're not working, they're stressed out. You know, it was never really us. They just have we were the ones that they had to come speak to to get it fixed. We always we'll solder emotions, ⁓ you know aggressive emotions at the steering. And I would always try to flip that script the best we could. Like we figure out a way to make your days bigger. We figure out a way to make your careers less stressful. Things like that. And and then we become empathic because then we're talking along the way. We're talking about, you know, hey kids or vacations or or whatever it might be. And then we become humans again. The anti what we're seeing with
speaker-1: I I heard in one of your podcasts that you talked about that ⁓ as you go higher in the rank of IT, it doesn't you you don't use the the day to day ⁓ technology. It's it's all about using technology to solve problems and and ⁓ and talking to people and ⁓ and it's the human touch that's that's behind it.
speaker-0: It's controversial ⁓ in the in the IT space. All of those human you know connection pieces are gonna get you farther, ⁓ especially right talk about a lot of things before we die, but we we we all understand the snaps you can you use it along with being a human and being able to mix that tool in that it can be a really good thing. It can be a really dangerous thing with the sun and being able to guide that from a humanality scene to me. It comes back to more I it really comes back to just being another demon like another human. And making sure the we're just trying to help one another. Get through the day, get through ⁓ a goal, get through whatever it is and we're teammates, just makes it work on something. I try, ⁓ to push that message as much as
speaker-1: I I get you. ⁓
speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ so what do you think separates leaders who build healthy organizations from those that actually create chaos?
speaker-1: Well, ⁓ that's a very big question. But ⁓ I think is that ⁓ to understand that everyone is equal and ⁓ you know mo a lot of bosses and leaders they sit at at the top and they don't have the direct connections to all of the people in the company and ⁓ there is like a big space there. ⁓ so I believe a leader has to walk the talk, you know, he has to show himself, he has to be there. to be as much connected to his team and ⁓ to be one of the team and and not above people.
speaker-0: can't co sign that more. get out from the Ivory Tower, I like to say it, and yeah, try to try to hear what the real struggles are, ⁓ what's affecting somebody that day. And I as somebody with ADHD, I understand way more I guess one of the pros of of going through the struggles of ADHD is I understand that people aren't going to have it every single day. There's gonna be good days and bad days and I and I hope that it can help me get to more good so With that, what do you think the best leadership trait is, ⁓ for somebody in a leadership position?
speaker-1: Well, first of all, I think that leadership is something different than regular knowledge. So ⁓ if you wanna learn leadership, ⁓ it's not in school. You can have a PhD in leadership and that does not make you a leader. There is something else there. And ⁓ I believe that it is it ⁓ it relies on the domain of being of ⁓ of of being a leader. Which is something completely different than learning and to know about how a leader acts. So and and it takes a lot of practice. ⁓ but but ⁓ at the end of the day is to be on the court and to do your best every day and ⁓ and just and just be there. ⁓ and and not ⁓ sit around and tell everyone what to do.
speaker-0: Yeah, there's some there's some points of that there that kinda cut deep for me, but ⁓ yeah, I I I co sign everything you say and I normally sum it up as try to put a little bit of good out into the world every single day, just a little bit of fun. And that'll add up over time. Well don't bark orders in direction, like it's a very easy thing to do. I mean nine times out of ten they're not reading those things that we don't know already.
speaker-1: Yeah, the human connection is the most important thing and ⁓ when when you lead people you have to go first in front, not in the back.
speaker-0: line so to speak, right? so w what do you think is the most underrated habit for mental performance?
speaker-1: Well, I'll get back to integrity. I'm ⁓ I'm Mr. Integrity, really. I'm I've been working on that for fifteen years. And ⁓ every day I learn something new and and I I get ⁓ to see where is my next level and I lecture about it. And when you have to lecture, you really have to know it and you have to walk the talk and and and be there. So I actually I really think that if someone takes something out of our show today is to really go and learn how to work on integrity, what integrity is. ⁓ you can read about it. ⁓ there are ⁓ different research papers and it's called integrity as a positive model and and it has ⁓ a direct ⁓ access to your performance in life and actually in in in every aspect of life.
speaker-0: Yeah, I I I definitely believe that. as somebody who wants to be seen on one side of the fence when everything is all over and done with, I wanna be seen as the individual that helped individuals, everything that I tried to put out in the world, I followed, I walked, I talked as you said, ⁓ I I truly believe that I didn't just you know, use car salesmen or marketing to jargon or whatever. Like I actually lived that life. ⁓ I and I I do truly believe integrity can also mean ⁓ I think it's a good point, maybe, ⁓ that you can say that you can't do something for this reason and that's that's having integrity. You're not trying to, you know, do something and fail at it that you know out of the gate you're already in trouble with. Having integrity is making sure that you understand.
speaker-1: It's to take full responsibility.
speaker-0: Right, right. Yeah, I love that. Love it. ⁓ so what does success mean to you today? With with everything you've done in your career and what you still wanna accomplish, what what does success look like for you?
speaker-1: Well, first of all, ⁓ there's still a long way. ⁓ I'm in the process of scaling up excellent brain worldwide. We currently sell in fifteen countries and we have a lot of work to do in in terms of of that. But I I see success as the the impact that you do on people in the world. A good impact. That that's success for me above everything. ⁓ how can I help as many people as possible and really improve their lives and and you know and be a positive ⁓ impact on them?
speaker-0: I I say if like we can put a little bit of good in the world every single day, if I can help maybe even one person a day, one person a week, whatever it is, the more of us that are doing that, the more people we can reach and really make a difference and change. ⁓ some days it can be hard, but I keep coming and doing it and I keep you know, I keep staying and doing it because once you have reached somebody and you hear those great things, it just It doesn't matter what the bad was at that point I wan I want to get. ⁓ so, ⁓ last question. What is a piece of advice that you would give somebody maybe going through a DHD or wants to improve ⁓ mental capacity, mental strength, you know, what is a piece of advice that you would give them right now, especially as you're somebody out there trying to change the world with
speaker-1: So I I believe the most important thing is that they should know and really know that they can improve and change. It's possible. So wherever you are, at what stage you are, whether it's bad or good or whatever, you can always improve and you can work. Just do the work, believe in yourself, and the results will come.
speaker-0: Absolutely love that. ⁓ I mean just start, right? And then eventually, as it adds up, hopefully you get there. And you will if you if you want it badly enough, I think.
speaker-1: Just start. That that's the that's the thing, really. If you start do something, just do something and and c and continue doing it. And you know, ⁓ discipline is ⁓ much more effective than motivation. So ⁓ as long you know, just be disciplined as as you can and you'll you'll get results for sure. I promise that.
speaker-0: Absolutely, absolutely love that. I I I co sign that. I it's one of the things I normally say too is just just start. So it doesn't even matter if you have the plan or the plan changes, we'll we'll work on that. But if you start, then you we're already we're already rolling the boat together, we're already you know, the wheel's already turning, what whatever the analogy you want to use. ⁓ we're at least headed in a direction.
speaker-1: Complete.
speaker-0: So Oprah, this has been honestly a a fascinating conversation. ⁓ I mean it sits right at the intersection of technology, leadership, human performance, and you know, even where the future is headed. So I I greatly appreciate you for sharing both the technical and human side of the conversation. Where can people connect with you and learn more about excellent brain and and anything else that you have going on?
speaker-1: Sure, so the the easiest way is to go to our website, which is www dot excellent dashbrain dot com and ⁓ they can contact us. They can read a lot of information about neural feedback and they can even contact me directly.
speaker-0: Absolutely love that and I'll make sure to we include that ⁓ into the release of the episode. ⁓ I'm gonna check it out even further as somebody who can ⁓ always use an improvement as as I sit here and rethink some of the words and how I said them ⁓ every single day. So expect me to check it out and I hope the rest of my listeners do. And we we do have a large ⁓ you know, neurodivergent ⁓ audience, which which I think is fascinating and really great message for everybody. So with that You know, this has been Decline Invite Podcast. ⁓ the meeting is now adjourned. Again, I appreciate you for coming on the show, Oaker. I look forward to trying to stay in and, you know, connection with you. I can't wait to see where you're gonna head and what other things you're gonna you're gonna do and where you're gonna involve the technology in the space. So ⁓ really appreciate it and thank you for taking the time with us today.
speaker-1: Diane, thank you very much. It was a pleasure. Really, I'm honored to be on your show and really thank you for everything.
speaker-0: Much appreciated. Take care everybody. We'll see you again next time.
