Western Retrospective: Johnny Guitar

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Hey, this is Greg Berger and you are listening
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to the geek cast radio network Hello and welcome
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to episode 247 of the cinema geeks I am one of
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your cinema geeks optimus solo and joining me
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as usual is the comic concierge. Hello Dan. Hello.
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How are you? good good i feel like i want to
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be one of those radio guys that's like from back
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in the day like uh it's like soothing like soothing
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and just like grab a cup of coffee and sit back
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and i don't know um enjoy the soft underbelly
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tones or whatever i yeah it's been a while since
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i've listened to the radio me too obviously since
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that probably hasn't happened in decades uh but
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we are back talking more western films with you
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guys so we've been covering a whole slew of different
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western films and last time we talked about mccabe
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and mrs miller and today we're here talking about
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uh johnny guitar from what year is this 1954
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1954 yes so before we get the facts about johnny
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guitar just remind everybody dan what your experience
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was or thoughts were going into it was it something
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you knew something about was it completely blind
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and kind of set the stage for you as you kind
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of went to view this time. I knew very little
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about this going into it, and I kind of tried
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to keep it that way as much as possible. The
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only thing I knew about it, because as we were
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doing research, I knew it was the general tagline
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was it was a feminist Western, in which I was
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interested to see what that meant, especially
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for a movie, as we mentioned, that came out in
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1954. That's really all I knew about it. Never
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watched it before. Never saw a trailer. I don't
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think I've ever even seen scenes from this before
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now that I've watched it. But how about you?
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What was your experience with this? There's a
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bunch of movies that we're covering on this retrospective
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that were blind spots for me. But many of them
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I have obviously heard or knew they existed or
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knew lines from or certain things about it. Like
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there's a lot of famous Westerns that we're covering.
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This is one of those that falls in the category
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of like the least I knew about. Like, I don't
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know if there is a single thing I knew about
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this film other than what I saw on the, I think
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I may have seen the poster and saw that, you
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know, there was going to be a strong female presence
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in the film, but outside of that. I knew absolutely
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nothing about this, so it was very interesting
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kind of going into this, coming off of McCabe
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and Mrs. Miller, also not knowing anything about
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our next film, which we'll get into towards the
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end. So I was very curious how this whole section
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was going to play out. ChatGPT was very skeptical
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on if I was going to like this one or not, so
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I was curious if it would keep its streak of
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being somewhat correct or if I would buck the
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trend for that one, but definitely going in very
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blind. um yeah so i'm interested to get into
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our thoughts but before we do that let's let
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dan set the stage with all the facts about johnny
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guitar and then after that we'll get into our
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feelings after we finally watched it for the
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first time so take it away dan His name is Guitar,
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Johnny Guitar. As this week, we continue our
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Western retrospective with a look at Johnny Guitar
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from 1954. Set in the American West, the film
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centers on Vienna, played by Joan Crawford, a
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fiercely independent saloon owner who is waiting
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for a new rare world to arrive, believing it's
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going to make her a fortune. Her success and
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confidence, though, do make her the target of
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suspicion and resentment from many of the townspeople,
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especially Emma Small, played by Mercedes McCambridge.
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Emma is bitter and very influential in the town,
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and she harbors a deep personal grudge against
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Vienna. Into the situation rides Johnny Guitar.
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As a titular character, played by Sterling Hayden,
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he's a former gunslinger who now carries a guitar
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rather than a gun, hence the name. He does have
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a romantic history with Vienna, but does try
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to remain neutral in the town. although he's
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brought into it after the town is looking for
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someone to blame due to a series of robberies
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and violent incidences. As those accusations
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add up, Vienna is falsely accused, linked to
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the gang of outlaws led by the charismatic Dancing
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Kid. Gotta love the names back then. Emma uses
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fear, jealousy, public outrage, you know, those
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classics, to turn the town against Vienna, leading
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to a dramatic... final showdown the film adapts
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the 1953 novel johnny guitar by roy chancellor
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though it's a very loose adaptation it changes
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much of it making the focus the rivalry between
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vienna and emma The film is officially directed
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by Nicholas Ray, but reports that cast and crew
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have suggested that was really Crawford who did
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most of the directing, using her power and influence
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over the production. Joan Crawford had a number
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of issues with other co -workers as well, most
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notably Mercedes McCambridge. They reportedly
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really hated each other and fought all the time,
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according to the crew. Apparently that paid off
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because you certainly see that on screen as well.
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Cinematographer Harry Stranding Sr. often would
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combine location photography with studio close
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-ups. A scene might begin with a wide shot in
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Arizona, but then cut to a studio close -up under
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careful controlled lighting. This editing style
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can make it seem like Crawford was never out
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on location, although she was, so just to clarify
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there. The film earned around $2 .5 million in
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the North America market, so it did turn a profit,
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although its reception with fans and critics
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at the time was very mixed. However, it was extremely
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well received in Europe, especially in France,
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including two critics, François Truffaut and
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Jean -Luc Godard, who gave it rave reviews. Of
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course, two people who would go on to make some
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legendary films themselves. It has gained more
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respect over the years and actually has a 94
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on Rotten Tomatoes as we speak. But... where
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do kevin and i stand are we with those original
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who saw it when it first opened or are we more
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with the more modern audiences back to us to
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discuss all right thanks for the facts dan on
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johnny guitar so kind of just to get us going
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here dan give you a little bit of a setup here
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so a lot of critics love this film they say it
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completely flips western conventions They enjoy
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the rivalry between Vienna and Emma. They like
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some of the political subtext. They praise the
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direction, its willingness to be melodramatic,
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and its influence overall. On the opposite side
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of that, some critics feel like the acting is
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too much over the top, that the dialogue doesn't
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sound natural. They wonder why Johnny is the
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name of the movie but not the focus. Felt like
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the romance felt underdeveloped and that the
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melodrama could become unintentionally funny.
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wondering what side of the spectrum you fall
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into and what was your reaction on the first
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watch of Johnny guitar? Yeah. So interesting.
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I think I could see and understand a lot of those
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high and low points regarding it and watching
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it. Like one of my biggest first impressions
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was like, if this movie came out today, like
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the. internet grifters would like have a field
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day because it it is a movie called johnny guitar
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as mentioned he's basically a side character
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you have kind of the females taking center stage
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you know joan crawford kind of looking not like
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you would typically see uh a leading lady in
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this era or with the western you think of like
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you know the femme fatales or things like that
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like clearly not she's she is More, you know,
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she's certainly more in a masculine role than
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you would typically think of. And even like her
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rivalry with Emma Small, both on screen and off
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screen, they really are this movie. It is interesting
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that it is called Johnny Guitar when he's really
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like C character in this. I think there is a
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lot to like about it beyond just that portion
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of it. I do like the dynamic between Joan or
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Vienna and Emma Small, the character. like their
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rivalry uh i do feel in a way which we got we
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have a briefing of where it comes from we get
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some idea but i do think maybe a little bit more
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would be able to let you buy buy in and maybe
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understand why they are so vicious to one another
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but They do have, I don't know what the opposite
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of chemistry is, but they have it, like, in a
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good way. Because apparently, in real life, they
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did really despise each other. And that came
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across on screen. And I do, knowing this was
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written by a blacklisted writer at the time because
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of everything going on with the Redskins, I certainly
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see the ideas of mob role, what that, you know,
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the impact that can have, the negativity it can
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have when people just... just kind of go along
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with whatever they think the big bad is and not
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really think think it through so i think there
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are a lot of interesting ideas i do agree the
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romance like there is when it comes to the romance
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there's like no chemistry between any of these
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characters like the love triangle that is being
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developed like they not feel like they at all
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belong within a relationship with one another
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and i do think that like by the end It takes
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all these interesting ideas. It takes like this
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groundbreaking approach and then kind of just
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becomes another shootout Western, although maybe
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with different characters. So I generally thought
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there was some interesting ideas here. And I
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found the approach pretty refreshing, especially
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considering this was coming out near some other
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films we've talked about, which had a very different
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take. But I didn't think it was one of the strongest
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films as a whole. There's a lot of ambition here,
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but I don't think that ambition was always warranted
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with the overall end up product. And I do think
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reading into it, some of my issues made a lot
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more sense when I looked into the making of it
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and like, okay, we can get into that later. Why
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some things felt a bit off, it all kind of connected
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for me. So I generally... would say i'm positive
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i get you know where where am i on the spectrum
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between the high end and low end i guess to do
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have a major comp out i'm like right in the middle
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but i'm curious you said chapter gpt and didn't
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think you would like it and it was right last
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time was it right this time i would say that
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it thinks it was right when i told it my opinions
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but i don't think it was um and i'll tell you
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why I think there's a lot to appreciate about
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this film. I think there's a lot of good aspects
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of it. When it all comes together in a final
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product and through execution and whatnot, did
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everything work and did everything click? I would
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say probably not. But I think it reminds me of...
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Like if you were looking at a director's... retrospective
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like what you know if you're looking at like
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a famous director and their body of work it reminds
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me of that film that is done early on in their
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career that then they come back and like later
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in their career make kind of a different version
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of that film but they do it better like to me
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it's almost like something like that like there's
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a lot of good seeds and good ideas here was it
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done and executed like at a top level i would
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say maybe not But, I don't know, it's almost
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like, I know they're different directors, but
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to me, in a way, it's like the earlier, not as
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good version of Once Upon a Time in the West
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in a lot of ways. Like, Once Upon a Time in the
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West takes a lot of similar things that this
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film is doing and just does it better. I'm not
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saying they're like apples to apples, like they're
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different types of films and they're doing different
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things, but, you know, they both have similar
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backstories for their main characters as far
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as like saloon keeper or prostitutes who become
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saloon keepers and and different things like
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that they both have like a strong female presence
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in it they both kind of have like this triangle
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situation going on they both have like the mysterious
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guns slinging outside i know a lot of these things
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can be said for a lot of westerns right um but
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to me it's like something that you would look
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at any famous director and say like this is like
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the the version of a movie they did before they
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had honed their craft and then later on they
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they go on to do something that maybe is on a
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different level but i i generally enjoyed it
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like the other thing that it really screamed
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to me when watching this is and you you talked
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about the lack of chemistry and i think that's
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definitely a thing right like that's definitely
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prominently featured in this film is i guess
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a lack of chemistry but not always like in a
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bad way But it really reminds me of a stage play.
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And I know we'd say that a lot, but in this respect,
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when you go and watch something on stage, I think
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subconsciously you're much more aware that these
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are individual actors that are putting on a show
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that feel less connected with each other in a
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way. i don't know if i'm explaining that right
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but like i feel like in a movie sometimes you
00:14:03.230 --> 00:14:05.629
can get lost in the movie and really feel like
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these are family members or lovers or things
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of that nature and i think that's much harder
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on stage because of the like just the dynamics
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of of a stage play and i love stage plays and
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i love theater and stuff like that but i think
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you're always aware because they're right in
00:14:24.210 --> 00:14:27.440
front of you that these are actors right and
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:29.639
i and i think in a movie sometimes it can get
00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.519
lost in like you just get wrapped up and lost
00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.899
in it and like it seemed like it was always evident
00:14:35.899 --> 00:14:38.159
that these were individual actors doing a job
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:42.740
that was a little bit like takes you out of it
00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:44.700
a little bit like yes it is very melodramatic
00:14:44.700 --> 00:14:47.899
yes there's some kind of like similar to whatever
00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:50.159
one of the very first films we watched in this
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.580
retrospective where i asked you i was like is
00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.620
this how it's is this how it's gonna be like
00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:56.159
from here on out like are they gonna overact
00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:57.919
like throughout this whole retrospective and
00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.679
and are they gonna be like larger than life and
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:01.279
stuff like that it has a lot of that in this
00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:06.179
like especially especially from and it's crazy
00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:09.159
because mercedes mccambridge is emma small she
00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:11.620
won she either won or was nominated nominated
00:15:11.620 --> 00:15:14.629
for an academy award in her first role ever like
00:15:14.629 --> 00:15:16.610
the first movie she ever did she was already
00:15:16.610 --> 00:15:21.309
on the biggest stage but she is a lot in this
00:15:21.309 --> 00:15:24.789
movie and it feels like she is playing for the
00:15:24.789 --> 00:15:27.710
back of the theater like the way that her facial
00:15:27.710 --> 00:15:31.250
reactions and expressions and her like the everything
00:15:31.250 --> 00:15:33.509
her eyes and like the way she's speaking and
00:15:33.509 --> 00:15:35.309
i was like oh my goodness did somebody tell her
00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:39.370
that this was a movie um but so there is definitely
00:15:39.370 --> 00:15:41.590
a lot of that there's a lot of larger than life
00:15:41.590 --> 00:15:44.559
which I wasn't a huge fan of like, I didn't really
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:48.360
care for McCambridge's performance, even though
00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.460
I did appreciate the dynamic between Vienna and
00:15:51.460 --> 00:15:53.460
Emma. Like, I think that's obviously pivotal
00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:56.240
to the movie. It's, it's interesting. There's
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.620
a lot of things like every poster of this has
00:15:58.620 --> 00:16:02.860
the name of the movie, bold and front and like
00:16:02.860 --> 00:16:06.519
size, a thousand font Johnny guitar. But yet
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.559
every poster and everything is a picture of Joan
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.620
Crawford and it's starring Joan Crawford. And
00:16:11.620 --> 00:16:13.279
then it says like with, you know, these other
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:15.700
people. So it's like it's a weird choice as a
00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:18.639
title, I guess. I mean, but she was. Yeah, go
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.820
ahead. She was a star. She was a star of that
00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:22.580
era. I mean, she was clearly the biggest star
00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:25.120
going into this. So, yeah, absolutely. No, I
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:27.740
totally get why. But like you are like thinking
00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:30.940
like, well, the name and the star usually match
00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:33.440
up better. But that's really has nothing to do
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.690
with my. liking of the movie or different things
00:16:36.690 --> 00:16:39.669
like that but I just I found it where there was
00:16:39.669 --> 00:16:42.690
nuggets of stuff that I like there was I could
00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:44.210
see why some people would call it influential
00:16:44.210 --> 00:16:46.870
on some other stuff that comes later maybe as
00:16:46.870 --> 00:16:48.409
far as like some stuff that you could see it
00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:50.809
I like the fact that it's two two females that
00:16:50.809 --> 00:16:53.649
are kind of carrying the most weight especially
00:16:53.649 --> 00:16:59.210
for this time period I did enjoy the fact that
00:16:59.210 --> 00:17:02.649
I think there is there is even though from an
00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:05.059
acting standpoint it's very dated i think there
00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:07.880
is a timeless aspect to the psychology of this
00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.720
movie like mob mentality and groupthink and all
00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:14.859
of that is is something that's always going to
00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:16.660
be present like it's always going to be prevalent
00:17:16.660 --> 00:17:17.920
it's always going to be something that people
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:19.500
can relate to no matter what generation they
00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:22.940
grow up in so like i like those timeless aspects
00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:28.099
of the film and i did enjoy bits and pieces and
00:17:28.099 --> 00:17:30.599
i did enjoy my overall experience so i was positive
00:17:31.099 --> 00:17:33.559
in general but like does it stack up to some
00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:35.319
of the other films that we've seen in execution
00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:38.819
like absolutely not yeah so that's kind of like
00:17:38.819 --> 00:17:42.140
my initial reaction interesting so i did actually
00:17:42.140 --> 00:17:45.259
like mercedes cambridge's performance i i obviously
00:17:45.259 --> 00:17:48.980
like you said she's over she's a lot but i felt
00:17:48.980 --> 00:17:51.240
like it was fitting i guess because she was surrounded
00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:54.059
by a lot and just like i mentioned like the back
00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:56.640
and forth with her and joan crawford and i mentioned
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.279
like learning about the film and like the the
00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.259
history of it and like what was going on stage
00:18:02.259 --> 00:18:05.339
apparently like they truly hated each other and
00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:07.019
there was like a lot of things she did i guess
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:09.019
one time john crawford like got a lot of her
00:18:09.019 --> 00:18:11.759
coats and jackets and stuff like that and threw
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.079
them into the street and they had a pretty intense
00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:20.099
feud and joan crawford herself was had a lot
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:25.140
of like demands, I guess you would say, making
00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:27.660
this movie. I don't know if you noticed, especially,
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:29.859
I think it's very apparent in the end shootout
00:18:29.859 --> 00:18:33.599
where you have, you know, they're tracking everyone
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:36.960
down and you nearly, when you have all these
00:18:36.960 --> 00:18:39.920
shots and like you look at everyone and they're
00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.859
all like on location in the background, you see
00:18:42.859 --> 00:18:47.640
like this kind of rather picturesque scenery,
00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.880
very realistic. They're clearly at a location.
00:18:52.220 --> 00:18:55.019
But then every time you see Joan Crawford, she's,
00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:56.940
you mentioned like how it feels isolated. Cause
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:58.680
I think that's kind of how they had to make it
00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.740
because they would pan to her. And clearly you
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:03.880
look at, you know, any shot with her in the background
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.380
was very different. The background was clearly
00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:09.619
like, you know, a painted background and it had
00:19:09.619 --> 00:19:12.400
a very more like set feel because it was on a
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:16.740
set where, because she demanded that everything
00:19:16.740 --> 00:19:19.720
she did be on, you know, on a set. So the lighting
00:19:19.720 --> 00:19:23.359
was perfect. And I do think, Like it's almost
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:25.759
in a way it feels like it was edited where like
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:29.220
as a spoof or something in a way where they're
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:31.220
just putting in someone else. Sometimes it's
00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:32.900
like she's in a completely different movie because
00:19:32.900 --> 00:19:36.380
it looks so very different. So that final sequence
00:19:36.380 --> 00:19:38.799
where it's like panning to all these different
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:40.059
characters and they're supposed to be in the
00:19:40.059 --> 00:19:43.059
same location. But clearly anytime you get to
00:19:43.059 --> 00:19:48.039
her, it's like very much not, I thought. so i
00:19:48.039 --> 00:19:50.259
think that too like it seemed like it wasn't
00:19:50.259 --> 00:19:52.299
just those two that had issues with each other
00:19:52.299 --> 00:19:55.079
either oh yeah they all had issues with everybody
00:19:55.079 --> 00:19:58.839
yeah i guess yeah sterling hating mentioned like
00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:01.859
he felt like everyone was crazy on the set which
00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:05.359
seems like it was the case so he said that he
00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:07.799
said that like he would be on his way to the
00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:10.000
movie and just have to pull over and like throw
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.740
up because he was so like not wanting to be a
00:20:12.740 --> 00:20:14.299
part of it or something i thought i read and
00:20:14.299 --> 00:20:18.839
i think i also read that he said that no matter
00:20:18.839 --> 00:20:20.660
how much money was offered he would never do
00:20:20.660 --> 00:20:22.880
a film with Crawford again and he's like in that
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:27.519
saying something because I like money but so
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.119
I can see like why some of these didn't feel
00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:33.420
like they had like like it works for Vienna and
00:20:33.420 --> 00:20:34.859
Emma right because they're supposed to hate each
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:37.140
other so that works but then when it comes to
00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:40.759
the the I guess quote -unquote romantic chemistry
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:42.440
that some of these characters are supposed to
00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.259
have I think it definitely works in reverse against
00:20:45.259 --> 00:20:50.359
some of that Definitely, yeah. You don't feel
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:52.720
it at all, because it wasn't really there at
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:56.319
all. Even with the dancing kid, Scott Brady,
00:20:56.759 --> 00:21:00.279
again, their performances by themselves work.
00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.500
I do feel like Johnny Guitar, you get some sense
00:21:04.500 --> 00:21:08.160
that he's trying to escape a violent past, and
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.940
he doesn't have guns, but clearly that's not
00:21:10.940 --> 00:21:12.900
the case. I do feel like there's a story there.
00:21:14.829 --> 00:21:16.829
Apparently, this is very different than the actual
00:21:16.829 --> 00:21:20.450
source material because it does make Vienna's
00:21:20.450 --> 00:21:22.490
character much more prominent, which I don't
00:21:22.490 --> 00:21:26.390
necessarily have an issue with. But he does feel
00:21:26.390 --> 00:21:32.190
like a very undeveloped character who just kind
00:21:32.190 --> 00:21:36.190
of pops in and pops out when necessary. But overall,
00:21:36.329 --> 00:21:38.470
the cast is pretty stacked, though. I didn't
00:21:38.470 --> 00:21:42.460
realize... Ernest Borgnine shows up, who I love,
00:21:42.579 --> 00:21:45.660
and he's one of those great actors that comes
00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:47.680
in everything. He's super young in this, too.
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.559
Yeah. He's not super young, but he's young compared
00:21:51.559 --> 00:21:56.119
to what I knew him. I just recently saw him in
00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.759
something else. I forget the name of it, but
00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:04.779
he plays a similar character. The other movie
00:22:04.779 --> 00:22:08.660
takes place. one takes place in one day i could
00:22:08.660 --> 00:22:11.559
get the movie in a second but um he plays a similar
00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:13.079
character where he's like this kind of tough
00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:18.920
guy enforcer who kind of tends to uh you know
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.279
tough but that ends up being the one that beaten
00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.099
up at the end uh so it was interesting seeing
00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:27.200
him play that in my head like when i think you
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:29.240
know i think of him in the movie marty he's like
00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.119
this great like you know who's like one of the
00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.559
most endearing characters ever so ever seeing
00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:37.049
him like role like this but uh you know it was
00:22:37.049 --> 00:22:38.869
it was great seeing him show up because he's
00:22:38.869 --> 00:22:41.529
always a fun presence and then what you know
00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:44.069
word bond who we've you know we've seen a lot
00:22:44.069 --> 00:22:48.809
in the all the different uh movies with john
00:22:48.809 --> 00:22:50.630
wayne seeing him without john wayne it's like
00:22:50.630 --> 00:22:52.109
i didn't know you'd love to make movies without
00:22:52.109 --> 00:22:56.369
john wayne let's go see i think i saw spork nine
00:22:56.369 --> 00:22:58.509
like way later like in his tv roles he was like
00:22:58.509 --> 00:23:01.750
in oh yeah murder she wrote and highway to heaven
00:23:01.750 --> 00:23:05.079
and like little house on the prairie and stuff
00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:08.819
like that like like i did not see him when from
00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:10.900
the i know he's in a lot in the 50s and 60s but
00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:12.660
i had not been exposed to him yet so i was like
00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:16.279
oh that's the same guy like that's crazy yeah
00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:20.460
yeah i also remember like mckell's navy i remember
00:23:20.460 --> 00:23:22.799
him in the funny thing is remember him in the
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:25.660
like i saw the tv not the tv movie but the tom
00:23:25.660 --> 00:23:28.980
arnold movie and he's in that too yeah he's one
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:30.880
of those guys who kind of showed up and shows
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:33.660
up in everything Which one was Ward Bond? He
00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:37.380
was in The Searchers, right? Yeah, yes. Ward
00:23:37.380 --> 00:23:39.140
Bond was in The Searchers. I know that's one
00:23:39.140 --> 00:23:42.200
of the ones we watched. He's been also bringing
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.539
up Baby from our last retrospective. Yeah, I've
00:23:45.539 --> 00:23:47.160
seen a lot of Ward Bond. And John Carradine was
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:52.240
in this as well. Yeah, old Tom. I didn't realize
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.000
that was him either. I forgot to mention this
00:23:55.000 --> 00:23:57.940
with Emma Small's performance. I did like her
00:23:57.940 --> 00:24:00.660
performance, although like... I don't know if
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.559
you felt this, but her voice, it kind of sounded
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:07.480
like Rocky from Rocky and Bullwinkle. I kept
00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.680
wondering, I kept checking, like, did she voice
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:13.039
Rocky? Because she feels like her voice sounds,
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:16.640
it has that same pitch to it. Maybe that's what
00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:18.460
my problem was. Like, I don't know if it was
00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:20.559
the voice as much as the, I think it was more
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:22.079
the voice than the performance. Like, I just
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:23.480
felt like she was always shouting to the back
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:25.710
of the theater. I don't know. Oh, definitely.
00:24:25.970 --> 00:24:27.930
I mean, I think her and Joan Crawford are trying
00:24:27.930 --> 00:24:29.609
to have an act off where like, you know, they
00:24:29.609 --> 00:24:34.430
just like, you know, who can be, who can, you
00:24:34.430 --> 00:24:37.329
know, have the biggest performance and they both
00:24:37.329 --> 00:24:40.829
won. You know who I liked in this? I liked the
00:24:40.829 --> 00:24:44.650
dancing kid. Like, I'm not saying like his character
00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:46.869
necessarily, but I thought his performance was
00:24:46.869 --> 00:24:51.410
pretty, he was the, he was out of the whole cast,
00:24:51.490 --> 00:24:53.650
like the least person that was trying to overact.
00:24:54.269 --> 00:24:56.390
like I feel like he was just doing his thing
00:24:56.390 --> 00:24:57.890
like it was mainly the two women that were doing
00:24:57.890 --> 00:24:59.650
most of the overacting but and a couple of the
00:24:59.650 --> 00:25:02.410
townspeople but like the dancing kid just seems
00:25:02.410 --> 00:25:04.730
like a little bit more subtle compared to all
00:25:04.730 --> 00:25:06.730
of that and I actually enjoyed his performance
00:25:06.730 --> 00:25:09.130
I looked him up to try to see like what else
00:25:09.130 --> 00:25:11.829
I've seen him in and I haven't seen him in a
00:25:11.829 --> 00:25:17.109
lot but his last film role was the sheriff in
00:25:17.109 --> 00:25:23.109
the original 1984 gremlins movie oh wow so if
00:25:23.109 --> 00:25:25.170
you want to look that up anybody you can look
00:25:25.170 --> 00:25:28.309
up uh look that up but apparently he's the one
00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:30.990
of the sheriffs in uh the gremlins movie that
00:25:30.990 --> 00:25:32.950
was his last role but i thought i thought uh
00:25:32.950 --> 00:25:36.450
scott brady was pretty good movie i have yet
00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:39.829
have yet to see so gremlins intriguing yeah i've
00:25:39.829 --> 00:25:41.309
never seen we're gonna add that this christmas
00:25:41.309 --> 00:25:43.990
has got to be a part of something christmas movie
00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:46.150
retrospective oh and the movie i was thinking
00:25:46.150 --> 00:25:48.269
about with earners board nine was a bad day at
00:25:48.269 --> 00:25:51.130
black rock um it's like uh okay it's a About
00:25:51.130 --> 00:25:53.170
this guy who, it's kind of like a neo -western
00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:56.329
in a way. It's about this character played by
00:25:56.329 --> 00:25:59.089
Spencer Tracy. He comes into this town. He's
00:25:59.089 --> 00:26:01.430
trying to find out this secret. And it's a very
00:26:01.430 --> 00:26:04.750
secretive town. And then Ernest Borgnine is one
00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:08.190
of the criminals there. But that takes place
00:26:08.190 --> 00:26:12.789
after World War II, from present day of its era.
00:26:12.890 --> 00:26:15.230
It came out in 1955, actually a year after this.
00:26:16.890 --> 00:26:21.200
Intriguing there. yeah so um i'm curious too
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:27.019
um as far as the film goes and you know we talked
00:26:27.019 --> 00:26:29.420
about some of the themes and you know the paranoia
00:26:29.420 --> 00:26:31.519
the mentality you know power and stuff like that
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:34.000
we do see some like pretty mature elements as
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.420
well like obviously we see a uh this place get
00:26:38.420 --> 00:26:41.640
burned to the ground we see a hanging which they
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.900
just don't really pull many punches in that sequence
00:26:44.900 --> 00:26:47.500
yeah like that just happens and there's a bunch
00:26:47.500 --> 00:26:50.619
of people around it that are okay with it i i
00:26:50.619 --> 00:26:55.640
yeah definitely it i think it did it pretty tastefully
00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:59.000
and i was i was thinking okay well here comes
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:01.980
johnny guitar to save the day and like yes but
00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:05.160
there's a cost there so i was like are we gonna
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:06.940
get the shot again like somebody's gonna shoot
00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:08.359
the rope like is that what's gonna happen they're
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:11.839
gonna i did think that was i was like oh he's
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.369
gonna shoot the rope but no actually did like
00:27:14.369 --> 00:27:16.950
the the solution to that where he's on top of
00:27:16.950 --> 00:27:18.529
the bridge and cuts it like that actually makes
00:27:18.529 --> 00:27:21.529
much more sense so there you go what did you
00:27:21.529 --> 00:27:27.309
think of the constant use or go to of the like
00:27:27.309 --> 00:27:31.730
secret trail through the waterfall like i think
00:27:31.730 --> 00:27:34.190
we saw some of them go through that seat that
00:27:34.190 --> 00:27:37.809
like that path like six times at some point in
00:27:37.809 --> 00:27:39.849
the movie where they were going back and forth
00:27:39.849 --> 00:27:42.230
to like the the hidden layer on the mountain
00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:44.950
for the for the quote -unquote bad guys yeah
00:27:44.950 --> 00:27:47.910
i did i mean it's a cool layer so i guess it's
00:27:47.910 --> 00:27:50.150
like all right well we came up we're gonna use
00:27:50.150 --> 00:27:54.049
a lot of our time on our layer budget oh i was
00:27:54.049 --> 00:27:57.329
very confused though it's like the the the space
00:27:57.329 --> 00:28:00.410
we were living in yeah like that the distance
00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:02.930
from one place to the rest the how it's all is
00:28:02.930 --> 00:28:05.779
oriented like it seemed like they would be going
00:28:05.779 --> 00:28:07.519
off on this like long trail and then they would
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.200
just be right back in front of the saloon or
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.519
whatever it was and then it was like back to
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:15.059
the back to the dancing kids layer and like i
00:28:15.059 --> 00:28:16.660
was like are these things next door to each other
00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:19.680
are they right next door it's just a waterfall
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:22.599
connects them that had a similar idea because
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:24.319
i wasn't really clear if like they went through
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:26.339
that waterfall and that's where the dancing kid
00:28:26.339 --> 00:28:28.099
hideout was on the other side of that and it
00:28:28.099 --> 00:28:30.440
was like a quick yeah the geography was a little
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.890
strange overall like where everything was located
00:28:33.890 --> 00:28:37.650
like even like the the vienna's like place like
00:28:37.650 --> 00:28:40.049
where it is within in relationship to the actual
00:28:40.049 --> 00:28:44.130
town because it felt like it was like out on
00:28:44.130 --> 00:28:47.089
its own doing its own thing but it i guess it
00:28:47.089 --> 00:28:49.349
was more so part of the actual town itself so
00:28:49.349 --> 00:28:52.150
it i think yeah that the geography is a little
00:28:52.150 --> 00:28:56.119
is a little odd here but the other thing go ahead
00:28:56.119 --> 00:28:57.700
yeah no no not to the point where it like takes
00:28:57.700 --> 00:28:58.740
you out it was just something that was kind of
00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:00.240
like a minor detail that i was like i am very
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:02.819
confused as to like how big this actual place
00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:04.819
is another thing that was a little bit confusing
00:29:04.819 --> 00:29:09.700
for me was the actual dynamic between in relationship
00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:13.920
between multiple people in that mob or like between
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:17.579
emma and like one of them was a sheriff and then
00:29:17.579 --> 00:29:20.160
one of them was just like a powerful guy and
00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.799
like it seemed like it was a little foggy as
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.339
far as like the hierarchy in that group like
00:29:26.339 --> 00:29:28.839
I get like Emma's in control and like most of
00:29:28.839 --> 00:29:30.759
them are listening to her but it was very confusing
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.400
as far as to like at times they had differing
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.940
of opinions but you didn't know quite how everybody
00:29:36.940 --> 00:29:39.460
ranked and like I guess it was just more of that
00:29:39.460 --> 00:29:42.500
just general mob mentality but I was not sure
00:29:42.500 --> 00:29:44.500
where like I think it was Ward Bond was like
00:29:44.500 --> 00:29:48.200
one of the main guys there and I was like is
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.599
he just like what's his relationship with Emma
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.710
like are they just townsfolk that both have a
00:29:54.710 --> 00:29:57.450
lot of power i think well you had the marshal
00:29:57.450 --> 00:29:59.630
and then you had the sheriff and then you had
00:29:59.630 --> 00:30:03.529
emma who was like the you know she had she was
00:30:03.529 --> 00:30:05.450
the you know bank i guess in the sense because
00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:09.230
her husband being dead so i i took it as like
00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:12.950
the the marshal was there because of like the
00:30:12.950 --> 00:30:15.650
overall you know being a marshal he's more of
00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:20.069
a on the federal end so he has technically the
00:30:20.539 --> 00:30:24.220
the most authority but in the sense of uh you
00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:26.480
know that authority doesn't mean much if if the
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:28.779
mob around you isn't going to recognize it and
00:30:28.779 --> 00:30:31.420
you know the the person who's actually having
00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:34.559
the money and can control the town really has
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:37.660
the final say so i don't know if like that was
00:30:37.660 --> 00:30:40.039
what they're going with it per se like you know
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.920
we've had a few films even talking about again
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:44.880
once upon a time in the last where it's like
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:46.579
you know what's more deadly the dollar or the
00:30:46.579 --> 00:30:50.829
or the gun so I don't know if it's something
00:30:50.829 --> 00:30:55.269
partially regarding that. Again, possibly, but
00:30:55.269 --> 00:30:58.529
that's the way I took it. I get that. I also
00:30:58.529 --> 00:31:01.990
did enjoy the dynamic between the dancing kid
00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:05.630
and then, what is it, old Tom and Bart, I think.
00:31:05.769 --> 00:31:07.990
That was very Spaghetti Western -ish, where it
00:31:07.990 --> 00:31:12.869
had this posse of people that, how much could
00:31:12.869 --> 00:31:15.450
they trust each other? How much? Were they just
00:31:15.450 --> 00:31:17.230
in it for themselves and kind of how that dynamic
00:31:17.230 --> 00:31:19.349
was going to fall down when it came to like loyalty
00:31:19.349 --> 00:31:21.789
and who would cross who? Like, I thought that
00:31:21.789 --> 00:31:24.049
was an interesting dynamic. I'm curious what
00:31:24.049 --> 00:31:25.910
you thought of those three. And then we haven't
00:31:25.910 --> 00:31:27.789
spent a lot of time talking about Sterling Hayden.
00:31:27.849 --> 00:31:29.470
Obviously, we know that he wasn't getting along
00:31:29.470 --> 00:31:31.910
with Joan Crawford. But like, what did you think
00:31:31.910 --> 00:31:34.710
as far as him as Johnny Guitar? An interesting
00:31:34.710 --> 00:31:37.009
casting that cast a guy that didn't know how
00:31:37.009 --> 00:31:38.309
to play guitar and didn't know how to ride a
00:31:38.309 --> 00:31:46.539
horse. Yeah, but he was tall. Yeah, you can fake
00:31:46.539 --> 00:31:49.900
it. So I did like the dynamic of the gang. Also,
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:53.279
I did like the fact that when it began and they
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.000
show up in the bar, or I guess casino, whatever
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.519
you want to call it, I did actually at first
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.579
think, oh, because when you see that opening
00:32:01.579 --> 00:32:03.279
scene, you don't really get to see who really
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:06.039
robbed the stagecoach. And I did think it was
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:08.940
them, because they walk in and they kind of have
00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:12.950
that presence of... being this ruthless gang
00:32:12.950 --> 00:32:15.750
and finding out, no, actually, it wasn't. They
00:32:15.750 --> 00:32:20.109
were trying to do the right thing and how they
00:32:20.109 --> 00:32:23.049
get pulled into doing the wrong thing because,
00:32:23.130 --> 00:32:24.450
hey, if they're going to think we're going to
00:32:24.450 --> 00:32:26.690
do the wrong thing anyways, might as well. So
00:32:26.690 --> 00:32:30.450
I did like that aspect and their dynamic together
00:32:30.450 --> 00:32:35.049
to how they had each other's back but to a certain
00:32:35.049 --> 00:32:38.720
point and how it was a bit, you know. How they
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:41.539
had a lot of rivalry within that group as well.
00:32:41.779 --> 00:32:44.160
So that, I thought, was effective. And I thought
00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:46.900
Sterling Hayden, I thought he hit it beyond not
00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:49.740
having chemistry with Joan Crawford. I thought
00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:53.559
he was a good presence. I've loved him in so
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.480
many other performances, but I don't think he
00:32:56.480 --> 00:33:02.680
had an opportunity really to do much. Like I
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.900
mentioned, his character... we don't know that
00:33:05.900 --> 00:33:09.420
much about like the little song he does do sure
00:33:09.420 --> 00:33:11.200
like i couldn't tell he didn't know how to play
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:14.680
guitar i also don't know how to play guitar either
00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:18.920
so perhaps that's that's why but i thought like
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:21.140
he has you know he has certainly a presence to
00:33:21.140 --> 00:33:25.339
him he has the the cowboy look but it's not necessarily
00:33:25.339 --> 00:33:27.279
a performance i would go to is like oh we want
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:30.460
to see certain hayden being that iconic actor
00:33:30.460 --> 00:33:33.160
i didn't think that he had even the opportunity
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.240
to even do that here It says that he was offered
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.539
the role of Quentin Jaws, but turned it down.
00:33:39.220 --> 00:33:42.140
That's an interesting note. The other person
00:33:42.140 --> 00:33:44.539
we didn't, I guess I kept saying three, but one
00:33:44.539 --> 00:33:48.119
fourth member of that gang that, you know, spoiler
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:51.279
alert, doesn't make it to the end, is Turkey
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.900
Ralston, played by Ben Cooper, who also apparently
00:33:53.900 --> 00:33:58.640
has a, supposed to be a love angle with Joan
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:00.759
Crawford, even though they're like, I don't know,
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:03.730
40 years, or not 40, they're like. 20 years,
00:34:03.809 --> 00:34:05.569
at least an age difference. But what did you
00:34:05.569 --> 00:34:08.250
think of, I kind of liked Ben Cooper in general,
00:34:08.289 --> 00:34:09.889
just as a presence on there. It's kind of like
00:34:09.889 --> 00:34:16.090
the young guy who's kind of unable to be bottled
00:34:16.090 --> 00:34:18.070
up or like, you know, he's kind of like the loose
00:34:18.070 --> 00:34:19.929
cannon, so to speak, or, you know, the emotional
00:34:19.929 --> 00:34:22.730
punk kid. I don't know if I really enjoyed the
00:34:22.730 --> 00:34:25.190
romance connection between him and Joan Crawford,
00:34:25.250 --> 00:34:28.030
but I did enjoy him as just an extra person who
00:34:28.030 --> 00:34:30.449
didn't fit the mold of everybody else in the
00:34:30.449 --> 00:34:32.190
film. But what did you think of Turkey Rolston's
00:34:32.190 --> 00:34:34.699
character? yeah and we've seen this role a lot
00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:37.619
right the young gun trying to prove himself and
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:39.260
often those characters can come off as really
00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:41.380
annoying and i never thought that was the case
00:34:41.380 --> 00:34:43.480
here there was a bunch more tragedy to his character
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:48.880
uh in a bit like the first time he has guns he
00:34:48.880 --> 00:34:51.460
gets them blown out of his hands then you you
00:34:51.460 --> 00:34:54.920
kind of can understand like the put in a situation
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.199
where he is trying to save himself in a way and
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:02.199
you could kind of criticize that character for
00:35:02.199 --> 00:35:06.860
that but also just the fact that he he succumbs
00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:09.079
to this this group and then pays the ultimate
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:11.679
price even though he told was told that he didn't
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:14.119
have to just like the tragedy he plays in that
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.699
scene like he told me I would be okay like you
00:35:16.699 --> 00:35:21.920
can see like just the utter defeat within his
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:23.940
character so I agree I think he was a really
00:35:23.940 --> 00:35:28.659
like a character that often can be the weak link
00:35:28.659 --> 00:35:31.059
in a lot of other westerns I thought worked here
00:35:31.059 --> 00:35:34.539
I think he was a good looking kid too he had
00:35:34.539 --> 00:35:37.619
a lot going for him for this one I was pleasantly
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.320
surprised because he could easily have come across
00:35:39.320 --> 00:35:42.519
as somebody that was kind of an eye roller in
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:44.639
this film especially with as large as they were
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:46.280
allowing everybody to act I could have seen him
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:48.760
trying to seize the moment and make every scene
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:51.480
about him but I thought he did a decent job this
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.449
film was uh nominated for a couple of the different
00:35:54.449 --> 00:35:57.449
afi lists so it got a nomination for when they
00:35:57.449 --> 00:36:01.210
were compiling the list for afi's 10 top 10 for
00:36:01.210 --> 00:36:04.550
westerns and emma small also got nominated for
00:36:04.550 --> 00:36:07.809
an appearance on the 100 heroes and 100 villains
00:36:07.809 --> 00:36:11.869
um list as well so uh some love out there i think
00:36:11.869 --> 00:36:14.449
it has like a 94 on rotten tomatoes and like
00:36:14.449 --> 00:36:19.590
a 80 something on on metacritic but uh i guess
00:36:19.949 --> 00:36:21.829
not necessarily a polarizing film, but I feel
00:36:21.829 --> 00:36:25.949
like there is people on both sides of it. I am
00:36:25.949 --> 00:36:28.289
glad I watched it. I was entertained enough that
00:36:28.289 --> 00:36:31.710
while I watched it, I'm glad I've seen it. And
00:36:31.710 --> 00:36:33.909
I can see, like I said, where some of the other
00:36:33.909 --> 00:36:36.429
films may or may not have seen certain things
00:36:36.429 --> 00:36:38.469
and kind of grabbed towards it. I do, like I
00:36:38.469 --> 00:36:40.269
said, it broke a lot of the conventions with
00:36:40.269 --> 00:36:42.809
the way that they treated the two main female
00:36:42.809 --> 00:36:45.610
characters. So I think there is enough to appreciate.
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:50.380
like a easy recommend for like somebody who's
00:36:50.380 --> 00:36:51.840
really trying to get like a full picture of all
00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:54.519
the westerns like i do feel like from an execution
00:36:54.519 --> 00:36:56.400
standpoint there are some misses and probably
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:59.219
a lot of that is due to this filming back and
00:36:59.219 --> 00:37:01.880
forth whether they're on location or on set for
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:06.559
mrs crawford or the the lack of chemistry in
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:09.039
real life between sterling hayden and joan crawford
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:11.360
probably didn't help that where i guess it probably
00:37:11.360 --> 00:37:14.380
helped with her and emma but like it's one of
00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:15.820
those like i know you said like it's kind of
00:37:15.820 --> 00:37:17.519
a cop -out to say it's in the middle but like
00:37:17.820 --> 00:37:19.619
I can totally see that, and I feel like that's
00:37:19.619 --> 00:37:23.699
kind of where I'm at as well. Yeah. Like I said,
00:37:23.780 --> 00:37:26.760
I do think it's ambitious. It's going for a lot
00:37:26.760 --> 00:37:28.360
of things that, especially at that time, you
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:30.619
didn't see Westerns do. So I do think it plays
00:37:30.619 --> 00:37:32.840
an important part in that aspect. I also think
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.920
it looks really intriguing. The use of color,
00:37:37.019 --> 00:37:40.519
even in Joan Crawford's outfits, they're very
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:43.420
striking. It's a very different style and look
00:37:43.420 --> 00:37:46.130
in a lot of ways. I know when it came out, it
00:37:46.130 --> 00:37:48.429
was not well -received, because I think because
00:37:48.429 --> 00:37:51.050
it was so different and a bit ambitious, at least
00:37:51.050 --> 00:37:53.130
in the sense of United States audiences didn't
00:37:53.130 --> 00:37:58.949
know what to do with it. I read a lot of the
00:37:58.949 --> 00:38:01.969
contemporary reviews at the time, and some of
00:38:01.969 --> 00:38:04.190
them are very, very harsh, especially to Joan
00:38:04.190 --> 00:38:06.949
Crawford, the way she looked. I can understand
00:38:06.949 --> 00:38:11.969
why some of these actresses were the way they
00:38:11.969 --> 00:38:14.900
are. they like went after her pretty strongly
00:38:14.900 --> 00:38:16.820
regarding the way she looks like there was an
00:38:16.820 --> 00:38:19.860
uh critic who called it like basically like beauty
00:38:19.860 --> 00:38:22.159
and the beast with joan crawford being the beast
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.019
i'm like wow that is yeah they were pretty vicious
00:38:25.019 --> 00:38:30.500
uh with with with her um so yeah but i i think
00:38:30.500 --> 00:38:33.320
that's far too far too harsh for a number of
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:38.760
reasons but uh and i so like i said i think there's
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:40.400
a lot to take out of it also it's intriguing
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:42.159
too because i think originally this was designed
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:44.519
to be in 3d like they were thinking which i don't
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:47.360
know how that would understand how that would
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:50.860
work i mean maybe that fire sequence could look
00:38:50.860 --> 00:38:52.880
pretty cool but you know it was like the you
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.059
know the gimmick at the time but i don't know
00:38:55.059 --> 00:38:57.400
if that's why it had some of the color choices
00:38:57.400 --> 00:39:00.159
it did because it had a lot of like flat colors
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:03.480
a lot of like a lot of monochromatic colors i
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:05.420
think or is that i don't know my color that'd
00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:07.280
be something research like what how they were
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:11.300
doing a 3d option in 1954 or whatever year this
00:39:11.300 --> 00:39:14.960
was yeah but yeah like i said i'm glad we watched
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:17.500
it and i think it is worth a watch just to see
00:39:17.500 --> 00:39:23.420
its place within history and and seeing these
00:39:23.420 --> 00:39:26.539
seeing some of these performances and just even
00:39:26.539 --> 00:39:29.920
if they are a little bit big at times and i think
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.599
it gives you a lot to look at and like i said
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:35.059
i think too especially speaking toward to the
00:39:35.059 --> 00:39:37.840
time obviously with this going on at the red
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:41.960
scare and the you know with all the concerns
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:44.199
about communism and all that stuff certainly
00:39:44.199 --> 00:39:47.820
speaks to that and it being written by a a writer
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:50.260
who was on the blacklist you can certainly see
00:39:50.260 --> 00:39:53.980
a lot of the impact of like what was trying to
00:39:53.980 --> 00:39:56.159
be said and having that context i think adds
00:39:56.159 --> 00:40:00.090
a little bit to it as well i just think it you
00:40:00.090 --> 00:40:02.769
know sometimes it just and everything works which
00:40:02.769 --> 00:40:06.929
is which is okay but yeah no absolutely i totally
00:40:06.929 --> 00:40:10.550
agree so but what do we what are we going to
00:40:10.550 --> 00:40:12.989
next so we're going backwards a year actually
00:40:12.989 --> 00:40:15.610
so this was 1954 we're going to go back to 1953
00:40:15.610 --> 00:40:17.849
which should put us you know in the same time
00:40:17.849 --> 00:40:19.789
period same it's going to be interesting seeing
00:40:19.789 --> 00:40:21.349
these back to back and knowing that they were
00:40:21.349 --> 00:40:25.719
filmed kind of at the same time ish uh yeah i
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:27.780
the name of this one's called the naked spur
00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:32.380
uh from 1953 and the only thing i know about
00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:34.300
this film dan is the fact that i just pulled
00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:36.159
it up and i can see that two of the stars are
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:39.000
people that were obviously pretty well familiar
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.880
with which would be jimmy stewart and janet lee
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.099
that is all i know about this other than the
00:40:45.099 --> 00:40:47.940
poster has jimmy stewart holding a spur and has
00:40:47.940 --> 00:40:50.219
a couple guys punching each other and that is
00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:52.639
it says it's packed with technicolor thrills
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:56.150
so like Sign me up. I'm ready. What do you know
00:40:56.150 --> 00:40:59.530
about the Naked Spur, Dan? What you just said.
00:40:59.610 --> 00:41:01.969
That's basically what I know. I know the year.
00:41:02.909 --> 00:41:05.630
And I know it has Jimmy Stewart. And like you
00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:08.230
mentioned, Janet Leigh. So, you know, it's nice
00:41:08.230 --> 00:41:13.289
to see two actors from the Hitchcock retrospective
00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:16.190
coming together for Western. So I don't, again,
00:41:16.269 --> 00:41:19.550
know much. Don't know much about. Wow. Don't
00:41:19.550 --> 00:41:23.260
know what it's about, which I like. I like that,
00:41:23.300 --> 00:41:25.039
going in not knowing anything, especially for
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:28.599
a movie that's as old as this. So, intrigued
00:41:28.599 --> 00:41:30.659
to see. I know it's, like I said, this is the
00:41:30.659 --> 00:41:33.980
overlooked western section, so I'm seeing if
00:41:33.980 --> 00:41:37.500
it deserves to be overlooked, or maybe it'll
00:41:37.500 --> 00:41:40.239
be a surprise hit. We'll see. I'm definitely
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:41.820
interested, like you said, to see the two of
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:44.500
the people we saw in the Hitchcock retrospective
00:41:44.500 --> 00:41:46.599
now completely in a different environment in
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:48.219
the westerns. Obviously, we already saw Jimmy
00:41:48.219 --> 00:41:52.010
Stewart in one of the westerns we covered. so
00:41:52.010 --> 00:41:54.829
far but we have not seen janet lee so i'm interested
00:41:54.829 --> 00:41:57.210
to see how how that works out and you know we
00:41:57.210 --> 00:41:59.250
just came off of a film that kind of had two
00:41:59.250 --> 00:42:01.630
females like front and center so i'm interested
00:42:01.630 --> 00:42:04.909
to see like how janet lee's character is portrayed
00:42:04.909 --> 00:42:07.130
in this one is it another strong female or is
00:42:07.130 --> 00:42:10.230
it taken more of a traditional kind of stereotypical
00:42:10.230 --> 00:42:12.469
female role from this era like that'll be interesting
00:42:12.469 --> 00:42:16.210
to see for sure so i'm excited to uh see this
00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:20.590
as kind of a the last of our three is this the
00:42:20.590 --> 00:42:23.210
last of our three in the overlooked we've edited
00:42:23.210 --> 00:42:27.869
it a few times and then we we did after where
00:42:27.869 --> 00:42:30.670
are we going after this so we're in the overlooked
00:42:30.670 --> 00:42:33.050
western section the naked despair was the last
00:42:33.050 --> 00:42:37.679
one and then we did make some additional additions
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.800
additional additions that's that's about english
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:43.239
but we went and we added some we have like a
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:45.579
more classic western section i couldn't think
00:42:45.579 --> 00:42:48.000
of a better name for it but we're gonna go back
00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:50.239
and get some more of the classic westerns we
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.840
haven't included like red river high noon shane
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.960
rio bravo so um that's gonna be interesting too
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:58.219
because it gives us a chance to like go back
00:42:58.219 --> 00:43:01.739
to that classic era now after watching a bunch
00:43:01.739 --> 00:43:04.579
of these other kind yeah or like these other
00:43:04.579 --> 00:43:06.670
like subgenres so i think it's going to be an
00:43:06.670 --> 00:43:08.210
interesting way to do that versus watching just
00:43:08.210 --> 00:43:11.349
all of them straight in the beginning um so i'm
00:43:11.349 --> 00:43:13.550
intrigued to see how this this all goes what
00:43:13.550 --> 00:43:15.329
else are we going to be like sending out into
00:43:15.329 --> 00:43:18.210
the the episodes for people to watch recently
00:43:18.210 --> 00:43:21.469
for those that uh are not western fans yeah so
00:43:21.469 --> 00:43:23.289
we were thinking about like okay we've been doing
00:43:23.289 --> 00:43:24.929
this western retrospective and we're adding much
00:43:24.929 --> 00:43:27.230
more and we're like whoa what about people who
00:43:27.230 --> 00:43:29.860
don't like westerns they might have No interest
00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:32.500
in all this. So we thought, OK, well, let's try
00:43:32.500 --> 00:43:34.679
to do something on the completely other end of
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:36.840
the spectrum. We're going to pick a franchise
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:39.900
and we pick the franchise to kind of go through.
00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:43.219
And one, I think that we've had some experience
00:43:43.219 --> 00:43:45.719
with in the past. And we're going to start that
00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:49.559
very shortly with Planet of the Apes retrospective
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:53.539
going through all of those movies from the first
00:43:53.539 --> 00:43:57.860
until the most recent. So I'm curious. Kevin,
00:43:57.860 --> 00:43:59.679
what's your experience with Planet of the Apes?
00:43:59.679 --> 00:44:01.519
I know we've talked about the more recent ones
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:04.340
a few times, but what about the franchise as
00:44:04.340 --> 00:44:09.159
a whole? So yeah, so it was probably, I'm guessing
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:13.239
about 15 years ago now. Man, that makes me feel
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:17.219
old. It was before the modern ones. I don't remember
00:44:17.219 --> 00:44:20.300
when the very first of the most recent films
00:44:20.300 --> 00:44:23.920
was on, but I think it was probably somewhere
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:27.699
around 2009, 2010, around that time. okay so
00:44:27.699 --> 00:44:29.840
that's if my math's correct that's about 15 years
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:34.280
ago um and so uh probably 17 years ago if i can
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:36.340
do math correctly but it was somewhere around
00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:39.739
there that uh my wife and i actually went through
00:44:39.739 --> 00:44:43.019
i believe we hit all of them so we watched all
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:46.300
of the classics uh planet of the apes films we
00:44:46.300 --> 00:44:49.380
watched the mark walberg film and then we started
00:44:49.380 --> 00:44:52.800
in on the modern films and i've seen so i've
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:54.960
seen every planet of the apes film at least once
00:44:55.500 --> 00:45:00.460
And I've probably seen the modern films multiple
00:45:00.460 --> 00:45:02.500
times. The first one I know I've seen three or
00:45:02.500 --> 00:45:04.719
four times. And then the other ones I know I've
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:08.699
seen at least twice. So I actually do have some
00:45:08.699 --> 00:45:11.119
experience with all of the Planet of the Apes
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:13.320
films. The thing that I'm interested in, though,
00:45:13.340 --> 00:45:16.639
is when we did that all those years ago, we watched
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:19.539
them in chronological order. And we finished
00:45:19.539 --> 00:45:22.800
with the more modern ones. So now that I've seen
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.869
those, I'm very interested. to go back and watch
00:45:25.869 --> 00:45:28.210
the originals again to see like what other stuff
00:45:28.210 --> 00:45:30.409
i pick up on or connections i can make which
00:45:30.409 --> 00:45:32.170
i know a lot of people probably written written
00:45:32.170 --> 00:45:35.010
ad nauseum on on all that but like i haven't
00:45:35.010 --> 00:45:36.969
experienced myself so i'm i'm definitely intrigued
00:45:36.969 --> 00:45:39.269
to like go back at this point and watch them
00:45:39.269 --> 00:45:41.289
now that i've seen all of them but what's your
00:45:41.289 --> 00:45:44.349
experience with the franchise i've seen the original
00:45:44.349 --> 00:45:47.210
uh it's been a it's been a very long time since
00:45:47.210 --> 00:45:50.170
i've watched it though probably similar to you
00:45:50.170 --> 00:45:54.000
so the rise came out 2011 so i guess 15 years
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:56.119
ago, which makes sense. Makes me feel better,
00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:58.579
Dan. Yeah, sorry I gave you some more time back.
00:45:59.059 --> 00:46:02.679
But I've never seen the movies after that. I've
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:05.840
seen here and there. They'd often be back when
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:07.940
I had cable. They would come on cable and I'd
00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:12.059
see scenes popping in and out. Why are they playing
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:14.820
under the apes in modern times? I know ideas
00:46:14.820 --> 00:46:16.400
of where the other movies went, but I've never
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.179
seen them start to finish. I'm not really sure
00:46:18.179 --> 00:46:23.400
much about where they go or what happens. I love
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:25.119
the newer films. It's crazy. I can tell you that
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:28.980
much. I can imagine. I love the newer films.
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:32.360
I remember when Rise was coming out and thinking,
00:46:32.460 --> 00:46:36.420
why are they doing Son of the Apes? They tried
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:39.679
that. It failed. I think if I'm looking at my
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:43.260
favorite franchises of the 2010s, that might
00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:48.320
be on top of my list. I get that seeing the 2001
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.920
version with Tim Burton and Mark Wahlberg was
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:54.719
like, they did that, it didn't work. I don't
00:46:54.719 --> 00:46:56.079
know what happened in those 10 years between
00:46:56.079 --> 00:47:00.199
2001 and 2011 or if it was just who was involved
00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.480
with it or what, but my goodness, I don't think
00:47:04.480 --> 00:47:06.940
any other film has made 10 years feel like 50
00:47:06.940 --> 00:47:10.619
more than the difference between the 2001 and
00:47:10.619 --> 00:47:13.739
the 2011 version. I remember seeing the 2011
00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:17.449
one and like, going bananas for it like it was
00:47:17.449 --> 00:47:19.550
definitely in my top 10 films of the year that
00:47:19.550 --> 00:47:22.929
year I proceeded to like every movie since then
00:47:22.929 --> 00:47:25.769
and I just think there's so much there like I
00:47:25.769 --> 00:47:28.289
really wish that it would have successfully gotten
00:47:28.289 --> 00:47:31.210
like mocap into the Academy Awards and things
00:47:31.210 --> 00:47:33.929
of that nature but it's definitely interesting
00:47:33.929 --> 00:47:37.030
so now that everything that has come out has
00:47:37.030 --> 00:47:38.909
come out and I know there could be more or something
00:47:38.909 --> 00:47:40.670
that would come on down the road but we're at
00:47:40.670 --> 00:47:45.849
10 of them 10 films so far so Nice round number.
00:47:45.969 --> 00:47:48.849
So out of the 10, you've fully seen how many?
00:47:49.710 --> 00:47:54.030
I've seen the first and then the next, the three.
00:47:54.110 --> 00:47:56.750
I actually have not seen the most recent one.
00:47:57.230 --> 00:47:59.389
And you haven't seen the Tim Burton one or no?
00:47:59.889 --> 00:48:01.670
I've seen the Tim Burton one. Yeah. I saw that
00:48:01.670 --> 00:48:03.949
in theaters actually. You've seen five of the
00:48:03.949 --> 00:48:07.329
10. Yeah. So I've not seen half of them. So that's
00:48:07.329 --> 00:48:11.190
exciting. I have read some of the comics. Yeah.
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:13.760
I have read some of the comics, because there's
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.039
been a lot of Planet of the Apes comics, and
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:18.639
I'll talk about that when we get into the first
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:22.179
movie, because there's actually a comic that
00:48:22.179 --> 00:48:25.239
is an adaptation of Roger Sterling's original
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:29.059
draft for the Planet of the Apes, which was going
00:48:29.059 --> 00:48:31.219
to be much different than the movie itself, but
00:48:31.219 --> 00:48:33.139
had to be changed because it would have been
00:48:33.139 --> 00:48:36.699
far too expensive to do, because it was more
00:48:36.699 --> 00:48:39.199
of like... Planet of the Apes in more like modern
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:48.760
time. So I've always loved the franchise. So
00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:50.639
I've always wanted to go back and watch those
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:52.480
movies. So now it's a good opportunity to do
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:54.320
that. And then, of course, like we mentioned,
00:48:54.400 --> 00:48:56.619
if you're someone who doesn't like Westerns,
00:48:56.639 --> 00:49:00.579
perhaps you'll like science fiction. And also,
00:49:01.239 --> 00:49:02.840
I don't think we've ever talked about them or
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:05.710
done reviews of them, even the newer ones. I
00:49:05.710 --> 00:49:07.050
think we've talked about them as they've come
00:49:07.050 --> 00:49:09.409
up in year -end awards or top tens or stuff like
00:49:09.409 --> 00:49:10.829
that, but that's probably about it. The other
00:49:10.829 --> 00:49:12.309
thing that's interesting is that there's ten
00:49:12.309 --> 00:49:14.909
films and there's eight different directors.
00:49:16.030 --> 00:49:20.469
So it's always a different flavor. Yeah, true.
00:49:21.710 --> 00:49:24.929
So yeah, you can either get to our Western love
00:49:24.929 --> 00:49:26.429
and continue on with us there, or you can switch
00:49:26.429 --> 00:49:29.530
over to sci -fi, or you can do both. Just mix
00:49:29.530 --> 00:49:31.869
it up and watch both and listen to us if you
00:49:31.869 --> 00:49:34.469
can't get enough of us. I don't know if that's
00:49:34.469 --> 00:49:38.929
possible. And you can keep up with all that stuff.
00:49:38.969 --> 00:49:41.750
Dan, do you want to give them a heads up on how
00:49:41.750 --> 00:49:44.110
they can interact with us online? Yeah, and hopefully
00:49:44.110 --> 00:49:47.170
I'll get back to doing more. I've been on vacation.
00:49:47.369 --> 00:49:51.210
But check out our Facebook page at the Cinema
00:49:51.210 --> 00:49:53.429
Geekcast podcast. We've been putting hopefully
00:49:53.429 --> 00:49:55.650
more stuff up on there. I'm going to put some
00:49:55.650 --> 00:49:59.349
stuff about our box office draft, how that's
00:49:59.349 --> 00:50:01.610
going, and other things like that. You can also
00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:05.219
follow Dan. i am getting crushed i am doing horrible
00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:09.860
so we'll see well i still got some coming yeah
00:50:09.860 --> 00:50:14.280
well but like supergirl did not help me no but
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:19.179
animal like animal farm i think lost somehow
00:50:19.179 --> 00:50:21.559
like has negative money i don't know there's
00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:23.219
a couple picks we wish we could have back that's
00:50:23.219 --> 00:50:26.010
for sure Yeah. And certain ones I wish I definitely
00:50:26.010 --> 00:50:28.309
picked, like I really underestimated some of
00:50:28.309 --> 00:50:29.829
the horror films. We'll talk about it another
00:50:29.829 --> 00:50:34.090
time, but yeah. So, but I am not, it's, if this
00:50:34.090 --> 00:50:36.309
was a fantasy football season, I'd be like, Oh,
00:50:36.369 --> 00:50:40.769
an eight at this point. So, but yeah, I can also,
00:50:40.769 --> 00:50:42.630
and you can find me on social media platforms
00:50:42.630 --> 00:50:45.199
at comic concierge. Yeah, and you can find me
00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:47.559
at Optimus Solo. We also may be putting out an
00:50:47.559 --> 00:50:49.420
episode soon that gives you some more modern
00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:52.940
takes on 2026 films as we have crossed the halfway
00:50:52.940 --> 00:50:54.760
point. We might give you guys a little update
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:56.599
on the stuff that we've seen. I know Dan's been
00:50:56.599 --> 00:51:00.179
hitting the pavement hard with film watching
00:51:00.179 --> 00:51:03.340
this year. You have me destroyed. I think I accidentally
00:51:03.340 --> 00:51:06.400
let myself get wrapped up into like... four or
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:08.440
five different tv series that really started
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:10.860
dominating my time and i need to i need to catch
00:51:10.860 --> 00:51:12.960
up on some movies so uh but i know you've seen
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:14.679
a bunch and i probably have some great recommendations
00:51:14.679 --> 00:51:17.059
so we'll try to get that out for people to listen
00:51:17.059 --> 00:51:20.400
to soon as well so um if you have any ideas or
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:22.119
comments for the show dan just gave you the ways
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:24.579
to to search us out and and drop those comments
00:51:24.579 --> 00:51:26.239
and we definitely will listen to all comments
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:28.500
and take all feedback and as we go forward but
00:51:28.500 --> 00:51:30.599
and that does it for this episode so tune in
00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:32.380
next time for another chance to listen to more
00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:33.579
of the cinema geeks