The Tradistan Wars Continue: The MadTrads Come for Avoiding Babylon

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I gotta say the taffy intro this week wasn't the greatest, and I didn't make him redo it.
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And we'll play it on locals.
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He did he did tell us he was gonna be too busy today to actually so like I don't know, it was all right.
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It just is that your hand, Anthony, pulling out the sword.
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Um I woke up this morning to Matt DMing me.
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Uh well, so we had Matt booked already, right?
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Like, so like me and Matt had have been speaking for weeks about getting him on, and I texted him last night and I was like, I have no idea what we're talking about tomorrow.
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I was like, I'll I'll find something during the day and I'll text you the topic.
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That was the last text you had sent me, too.
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You're like, I don't even know what we're gonna talk about tomorrow.
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And then I went to bed, and then I woke up this morning to uh like a group chat between me, Rob, and Matt.
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And Matt goes, Oh, look, they wrote an article about me.
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Chris Jackson wrote an article about you.
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So I started off by day like not reading the article, I was just like, they got the nerve to come.
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Really, boys, you guys think this is gonna go well for you?
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Like, that was my initial reaction.
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I'm like, You guys think you think this will go well for you?
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Okay, but then I read it and five minutes ago.
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I calmed down a bit.
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Well, yeah, but even just the I like I calmed down a bit, and I was like, you know, the um the the last episode we did, um, we had Wagner on, and he was probably like it was probably a in bad taste to have that conversation with Wagner on.
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Like Wagner's not a trad.
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It wasn't, it was we were supposed to talk about Lofton that night, and then Lofton made peace with Wagner behind the scenes.
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Yeah, kind of killed us, kind of killed the topic for that.
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Completely killed the topic, and I I had this stuff brewing in my mind, and I was like, maybe we'll just talk about that because I had this whole thing in my head that I was just mulling over just by watching like how Catholic media has been behaving since Leo got elected.
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By the way, welcome Matt Gaspers.
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It's been a while since we've seen you.
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Thank you guys.
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Congrats, by the way, on getting to 50,000.
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Thank you.
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Speaking of speaking of Michael Lofton, you're only 50,000 away from having the the silver what YouTube plaque.
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We need that plaque, guys.
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Remember when he made a video about that, a rap video?
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That was pretty sweet.
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My question is, do they do will they send each of you one or do you have to share one?
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We'll probably have to share.
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I think we'll have to we you probably have to buy.
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I think you can buy an additional.
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Oh, so you could probably buy more than one, yeah.
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Um, so all right, so so we had Wag Wagner on, Wagner, Wagner, whatever you guys want to say.
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Wagner, Wagner, Wagner.
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Um, and he was probably the wrong person to have on for that conversation.
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Now, where my thought process was when we had that, and I was very tired, I'd been sick for a week, I hadn't slept.
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My thought process wasn't actually about like how to handle Leo.
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My thought process was more holy cow, I'm watching outfits that like exploded during COVID and had this adversarial relationship to Francis and their their media empires, but like like life's like news was a juggernaut during the pandemic, like they were huge.
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That my i i remember speaking with John Henry Weston, and he and when it when he first lost his YouTube channel during COVID, and he had to start a new one.
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He was like, I would put up a video of anything and it would get 100,000 views.
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He goes, Then we had to start that new channel, and it was like you could barely get any views on it.
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And now I'm watching what's happening, and I just see there's no appetite for that kind of media, and that was where my and I was just thinking about like these guys have to change up their content because you're not going to get views doing the bash the Pope thing, like there's just no appetite for it in in the content space.
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That was where I was going.
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Wasn't thinking so much like it's in like that's a bad strategy for Leo, but it kind of did go there, and I and I'm still not a hundred percent sure which side of that debate I fall on.
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I see both sides of the argument in okay, you still have to attack the source of it at Vatican II because that clearly was a revolutionary event, and then I see the other side of it where it's like chill out, let's get our Latin mass, let's reposition, let's let's you know come up with a game plan and a long-term strategy.
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So, Matt, where are you falling in on this on this conversation?
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Well, on Monday of this week, Ryan Grant and I did like a three plus hour yeah, try watching that.
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It was it was long.
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It was way longer than I thought it would go.
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But I mean, we we dove pretty deep into the crux interview, and I'm kind of I'm basically running out of patience, I would say, with Pope Leo.
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I think it's becoming clearer by the day that he is in a certain sense a Francis the Second, uh better aesthetics, uh more polite and dignified, perhaps, but not really different substantially when it comes to doctrine.
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And I think those who are pretending otherwise are really being silly at this point.
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I mean, like you don't want one example I gave during our show, and I I greatly respect, I like Dr.
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Gavin Ashenden, but it's just gonna bring him up.
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Please stop with the with the Catholic Qon.
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It's so stupid.
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Just stop, just stop.
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Gavin's English, so he's like, he's like, you have to read him in code, and you have to understand he's speaking in code to us.
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It's like, no, he's not.
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No, no, he's not.
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The guy stinks.
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Not trusting the plan at this point.
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If you're trusting the plan at this point, you are you have lost the plot entirely, dude.
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It's man, the the point I'm at now.
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He here's where I really fall on it.
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And I've been trying to think about like what is my position on this.
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Um, and what what do I think of of Leo and Rob?
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I sent a picture of uh oh, it didn't go through.
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I wonder why.
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Um, I I I've been mulling over this in my head, and I just see uh the church since the council as the church in its passion.
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And when you see Christ after he scourged at the pillar, and Pilate brings him before the crowd and he says, Eche homo, it's like behold the man.
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Like you you're looking at the messiah, but it doesn't look like it, it doesn't look like the messiah.
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You're looking at God, you're looking at God, and when you how many people believe that he was God at that moment?
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At that moment, many, and when I look at when I look at the church right now, that's what I see.
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It's very difficult to say this is the church.
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This is the church, this is the body of Christ, and it's it's it's a hard.
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I'm trying to figure out what my best approach is to bring young people to the church when the church is in that state, because to point out everything wrong with it, I don't know if that sends them down the Sede Road, if that sends them to Eastern Orthodoxy.
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I'm trying to figure out how to like bring people in and help them gain faith.
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One other element that I think is very important for people to understand about that analogy, and this is stressed by John Salza and Robert Sisko in the introduction to their book, True or False Pope, which I highly recommend.
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Who did that?
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Who was the ultimate cause of our Lord?
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I forget there are different kinds of causes, like the instrumental cause, it was the old testament hierarchy who did that to him.
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Oh, we're doing the Jew thing already.
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I thought we were gonna wait for locals.
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We're doing that now, all right.
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We can do it now.
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Meaning that the the old you know, the the Israel of the Old Testament, the hierarchy of Israel did that to our Lord, so it that means that it's possible for the New Testament hierarchy to do the same thing to his mystical body.
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Typologically, that's exactly how I see it.
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I see it as and and you're going to have the old testament, the people of the old testament, mixed in with that, and you're gonna see there's going to be a Judas element, there's going to be the I mean, if you think that the the high priest and the Sanhedrin prefigure the Pope and the Cardinals, you will see elements of that typology play out in the end.
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Um, but it is still the church, and I still do think Leo is a valid pope.
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I think he is I think he is the embodiment uh of uh the council.
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Like I don't think Leo, I don't think Francis was.
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I think Francis was like way out there, he was a nut.
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And I think Leo is more the embodiment of the council, which is this timid Catholicism, unsure of itself, afraid to preach the truth boldly.
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And it's embodied in Leo the same way Peter denies Christ.
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Not that he ever says he's not the Messiah, he just denies knowing him.
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And it and there's elements of seeing that in the in the hierarchy since the council, where they're almost like ashamed to, you know, and I've I've gotten I've gotten heat from people for saying this before, but uh it's the only way I can make sense of it, I think something because we all can see like the Catholicism that was taught before the council is very different than the Catholicism that is taught now.
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Something revolutionary happened at that council and in the the following decades, right?
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Like the we're all seeing it, and I think I under under Francis, I took the position where it was like, all right, I'm gonna give leeway to people who fall on different sides of the argument here on where they end up.
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Like, okay, maybe Francis is an anti-pope, maybe Benedict didn't resign, maybe you know, I I allowed for people to ponder that and come to a different conclusion than myself.
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And what I'm seeing under Leo is which is kind of funny because there's a whole group of new guys who are calling calling some guys trad inc, which it's like well, they won't they won't actually name who they meet.
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That's kind of the funny thing.
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Yeah, guys, man up, come on, say names, let's go.
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We like a little beef.
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Like Catholic Esquire.
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What level of heresy does Leo have to teach before anyone can conclude he cannot possibly be the Pope?
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How bad does the heresy have to get?
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Well, okay, so I was JP2 Pope then.
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My like I ask Bellerman, Catholic Esquire.
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Bellerman says warnings are necessary per Titus chapter three, verses 10 to 11.
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So so what I'll say is um, so Chris Jackson wrote this article, right?
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I love Chris Jackson's writings, like I really do.
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Catholic Esquire.
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I watch every one of his videos, like I actually enjoy them all.
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I'm still just not settled on where I come down on it, but this just is how I this is I want this is where I'm making sense of it right now.
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See Steven is in the chat as well.
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Hello, Steven.
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Good to see you.
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He says, Yes, we have Matt.
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So who do you mean?
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Say in the chat who do you mean when you say they mean Dr.
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Marshall, Dr.
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Kwasnevsky, Michael Matt are the three musketeers of Trad Inc.
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That's that's their is that does it stop there?
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Who else are you guys talking about?
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I prefer three amigos personally, but um I okay.
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So look, here what I was trying to get at in that last episode, though, wasn't that um you guys shouldn't continue criticizing.
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I I like you guys are the new guys trying to like start a platform, and and for for guys like me and Rob and even Matt, we have day jobs.
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This is kind of like a side gig, right?
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So for me, it kind of I it doesn't matter.
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It's for me.
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Like me and Rob just are having fun on a podcast talking about this stuff.
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We like to discuss what's going on in the Catholic world, but for an outfit like Life Site, they have to make a decision like where do we move forward with our content?
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Because what position you take on this can determine whether your outfit survives or not.
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Um, I I laughed at Stephen Cox when he said originally that um Michael Matt and Marshall maybe got orders from uh Cardinal Burke.
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And then the more I thought about that, I was like, maybe maybe I mean it's it I don't know because I know Michael Matt has a good relationship with Cardinal Burke, like it is possible, it's not like completely out of the realm of possibility.
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I'm sure you don't think it's I think it's unlikely, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
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Yeah, I it's not like they got a call on the backbone television.
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I have a sincere question for all in relation to all the Trad Inc stuff.
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If if that's Trad Inc.
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seriously, isn't there a said ink also?
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Nova Sordo Watch, the WM review.
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I mean, they they use the similar talking points.
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Um Steven seems to be very sympathetic to seducantism, perhaps even I think all three seems guys.
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I mean, I when I read when I read Chris Jackson, and look, I here's the thing like even I don't want to get certain people who still have um valid orders in their diocese in trouble, but like very good friends, priests that I know fall in that category as well.
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They don't think Leo is a valid pope.
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Um I I would I mean from listening to Father Isaac, I would I would imagine he holds that position too.
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I don't know, he hasn't like I he hasn't flat out said it, but like these are all guys I love and respect and I listen to and pay attention to what they're saying and take their arguments into account.
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I also do listen to what Michael Matt is saying, and and I'm and I'm watching Taylor's position, and I'm seeing uh like they're trying to develop a strategy for the long term, and uh these guys are saying like the the indult position is stupid, but I'm also looking at I'm watching the older guys have absolutely no ability to connect to the younger generation, like it's just they're just incapable of it.
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There's some there's something missing there.
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So you you guys are gonna continue speaking to the Gen X crowd and and the boomer crowd, but the younger generation isn't connecting with with that.
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So I don't know, I don't know.
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I mean, I'm I'm just kind of here watching all this go down, and um I'm not I'm not trying I'm not trying to like I'm not trying to play all sides.
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I genuinely have not figured out like the correct answer to this.
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I just know what happened at the councils is insane.
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Everything that's happened since then seems completely bonkers, but I also know or I also believe that Christ made a promise that the gates of hell would not prevail, and I think that it will look like the gates of hell prevailed, and then at the last minute, God's going to do something incredible that will shock us all.
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I think the main difference between myself and those who are using the the trad ink pejorative is that I even if I disagree, like I don't agree with everything Michael Matt says.
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He's a friend of mine.
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Yeah, I don't even necessarily agree with everything uh Taylor Marshall says, another friend of mine, but I'm not gonna go on the attack against them publicly.
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That's just I don't that's in very bad taste.
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It's in very bad taste, but I do remember like when you're coming up and you're trying to make a name for yourself, you go, you know, you punch up, right?
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And I think that's what those guys are doing.
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They're punching up, like in a in a way, those guys have controlled the conversation for a very long time, right?
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Like, like and frankly, rightfully so.
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Michael Matt has been in this fight longer than some of these people have even been alive.
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Yeah, he's been doing this since you're dying.
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Settled down his his family's been doing it for generations, so get you know, he deserves some respect, whether you agree completely with him or not.
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That that deserves some respect, yeah.
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And what'll happen, and this is what I was kind of getting at last episode, also, is you guys will get some traction by punching up and call and doing the trading thing, but you're gonna be you're gonna be like put into a corner and you're never going to escape that corner, you're just not.
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It's I mean, it's just gonna be you're gonna pigeonhole yourself into a very specific situation, and you're gonna find yourself having very few people who want to collaborate with you because of that, and you're going to be like persona non grata for anybody who might actually enjoy you, but it has a relationship with those guys, too.
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Because I mean, similar to how relationship with them, similar to how so-called Trad Inc.
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was was kind of uh put in a corner over the you know, over the the Francis pontificate.
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Like it literally took for a Pope to die for Dr.
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K to get on Matt Fred, yeah.
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You know, it like in they're having a the that group or whatever you want to call it is having a hard time breaking out of the I don't know what you want to call it, the the not Pope Splainer, the Pope complainer, I guess.
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I think you don't need like like so yeah, you gotta yeah, not I don't want to say you gotta be careful doing that because you should stick to whatever principles you know you do hold, but uh that well you gotta be aware of the consequences.
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That's that's that's what I'm that's what I'm getting at, right?
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So and and I do think those guys are paying attention to these to the to the new guys because I I see they're they're reacting without saying their names, also right now.
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Now the I don't mind saying you guys' names because I nobody you mind putting them in a thumbnail.
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Like I don't mind saying people's names because I don't care.
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I actually like I want to see everybody succeed at this thing, and I know how difficult it is to like make a name for you.
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Like it was hard getting our channel to have any kind of like noticeability and stuff.
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So I don't like I'm always gonna try and bring up the new guys.
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Um, not that you guys are younger than me or anything, it's just the guys new in the content arena.
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Now I know Stephen Cox has been doing this for 15 years, but he's now on his own and he's you know doing a channel on his own.
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Catholic Esquire.
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I just came across recently, like in the past few months.
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Um, and then uh Chris Jackson I came across uh with the Baron interview.
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That was the first time I read Chris Jackson.
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It was the band we read his substance.
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That was a very good, very good article, really well right, like a really good writer, yeah.
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Right?
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Like it's just I I'm not trying to do the ecumenism thing here, right?
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Like I'm just uh I don't know, man.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:46.160
I I'm I'm trying to figure out like the way forward under Leo.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:46.960
I don't know what it is.
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.000
Who would have thought Anthony would be the voice of moderation?
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:55.279
Well said he did ever since he was in high school, starting fights so he can moderate him.
00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:01.279
I'm I'm sure Chris has I'm sure Chris has been around for a long time, but he hasn't come across my radar, right?
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.359
So that was the first time Chris came across my radar.
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:04.559
Let me just be clear.
00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:07.359
I still consider Stephen Cox a friend.
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.200
I still consider Chris Jackson a friend.
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.160
They're both very good writers, jerk, good journalists.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:18.000
Um, so it's not personal, I just don't agree with the the crusade against trading.
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:19.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:24.960
Well, Chris Jackson used to write for the remnant, and I'm sure the remnant took all his stuff down since he's been on the Trad Inc.
00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:26.319
Crusade, I would I would imagine.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:38.799
I mean, I don't know, but that actually came up recently that um a Nova Sordo watch Mario Dirksen posted about that, and um I checked, tried to find Chris's old articles.
00:20:38.960 --> 00:20:40.799
They do appear to have been scrubbed.
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.880
Um yeah, it is what it is.
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:48.079
I mean, I don't know, and I don't necessarily agree with that decision either, but it is what it is.
00:20:48.480 --> 00:21:02.559
But it's a it's I mean it's a pretty obvious consequence to the I would assume I would assume that there is a very direct cause and effect relationship between the Trading Crusade and his articles no longer being accessible, yes.
00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:18.960
Yeah, the the thing is I do I do like I I do want to have this conversation about the like the proper way forward in this because something needs to there something needs to be done.
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:26.799
There needs to be some kind of a plan for opposing some of this crazy stuff we're seeing in the church.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:41.680
I mean, you have it's kind of odd that you finally actually had six bishops come out and condemn Supic for what he's doing with this this award on seven now, seven, seven bishops now come at coming out against Supic, but I don't think that would have happened under France on under Francis.
00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:54.559
I'm not saying that means Leo is whatever, it's just I I just think there's a different temperature in the room under Leo, and he does seem like he kind of wants to unify things in some way, whatever that means.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:22:06.799
But I also know, like I I was making fun of the Charlie Kirk memorial, and then people were like, Yeah, but dude, look at Nova's look at the Nova Sordo, and it's like the yeah, like the Nova Sordo is just as silly.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:17.200
Yeah, I mean, it's basically that what they did there was more or less I've seen it many times a Steubenville conference or any other kind of retreat, like diocesan style retreat.
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:18.799
It's pretty much what happens.
00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:23.039
Just substitute um the artists that were there.
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:24.319
I forget some.
00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:26.240
I mean, and I enjoy some of that music.
00:22:26.319 --> 00:22:27.839
I don't think it's bad music.
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:32.079
I mean, I listen to it when I'm driving for work and stuff sometimes.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:39.680
Um, I don't obviously it's not appropriate for well, it kind of takes me back to my my heyday and my rock nostalgia.
00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:41.039
Yeah, nostalgic.
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:43.759
Um, what was I gonna say?
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.279
It's obviously not appropriate for Holy Mass or the liturgy.
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.680
That doesn't mean that it's evil either, though.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:56.400
I mean, and those people, if that's all they know and they are truly sincerely worshiping God.
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:04.400
I mean, several of them, several of the artists have come out and said, Man, that was a really powerful experience, and who knows if it was just an emotional high.
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.799
I don't know, but hopefully some people are actually going to convert as a result of this.
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:12.480
Convert to what, though, is I think their position, right?
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:13.680
Convert to what?
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:24.400
Like you you convert, and like there are there are versions of Catholicism that are presented to people that they convert to that aren't truly Catholic, right?
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:39.759
Like some of it's such silliness that you just you're like, man, this is this is this is so foreign and alien to what was taught to the generations before that you have to say, like, is this Catholic at this point?
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:41.759
You know, so why don't we go through Chris's article, Rob?
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:42.799
You want to bring it up?
00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:47.440
Yeah, let me find it here.
00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:52.319
It's in the it's in the thread between Matt and and uh the between the three of us.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.200
Um, and yeah, I did I did see uh how do you pronounce his name?
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:55.920
Vadi Basham?
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:56.720
Basham.
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:58.319
Who is that?
00:23:58.480 --> 00:23:59.839
Vadi Bocam, I don't know.
00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:03.200
He's a Protestant minister that everybody's saying went straight to heaven.
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:15.599
Um, it after we discussed this article, I do want to talk about the Protestant canonization of Charlie Kirk, like because some of the stuff that they're doing is so Catholic and they're and it's insane.
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.440
Yeah, I saw your post about that.
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:23.759
They want to make some kind of commemorative coin of him or something, and you were like razzing them about their idolatry or something.
00:24:23.920 --> 00:24:32.079
It's but it's like they're so blind to what they're doing that they man, we'll do it after because I that deserves its own segment.
00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:38.480
Like I mean, they're doing they're just doing what American Protestants have always done.
00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:45.920
Yes, get rid of the heroes of the Catholic faith and replace them with uh secular heroes, like that's what they've always done.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.240
But like kid like do the same exact thing, but say it's not it's different when they do it, basically.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:57.200
But um, we will get to super chats also, but uh all right, you got the article?
00:24:57.759 --> 00:25:07.839
Uh so from Chris Jackson, in a recent Avoiding Babylon episode entitled Will Pope Leo Kill the Trad movement, the hosts argued that traditional Catholics should move on from constant criticism of Leo.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:17.759
Their counsel was clear, turn down the outrage machine of the Francis years, lower your voice, receive the supposed olive branch, and trust that quiet deference might secure broader access to the Latin.
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:19.839
I don't think we argued that at all, though.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:23.440
I I I did well, kind of not.
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:29.359
I mean, my my my broader point was more about like the Catholic media stuff, but I did kind of say this.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:37.839
Um, and uh they even warned that Rome watches Anglo-Catholic media, implying that too much agitation could cost families their sacraments.
00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:38.799
And I did say that.
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.599
I'm like, I think that's a possibility, yeah.
00:25:41.920 --> 00:26:06.720
I I still do think that, so like too much agitation from I mean, not from guys like us, we're too small, but if Marshall and and Michael Matt are continuing the same thing as they did under Francis, I do think it would be very I mean we we've we've seen more more than enough examples of vindictive bishops who if they have a especially if they have a big influencer in their diocese.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.079
Uh you can't tell me the bishop of Charlotte wouldn't, yeah.
00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:17.519
I mean, he's already done it, obviously, but someone like that is vindictive enough to kill a TLM because of uh a YouTube video.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.319
You can't tell me that's not necessarily the case.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:21.440
Yeah, 100%.
00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:26.000
So it was in effect a manifesto for silence, silence in exchange for stability.
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.079
Silence is a new strategy for survival.
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:29.200
No, it wasn't.
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:30.960
Um, but they framed it.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:34.400
But what they framed as prudence is in reality a trap.
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:40.400
It recasts vigilance as disloyalty and asked parents to buy liturgical crumbs at the cost of doctrinal surrender.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:48.400
That is not mercy, it's a devil's bargain designed to guarantee 20 years of muzzled preaching while the revolution cements itself as official Catholicism.
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:57.759
So I would argue that what it actually is is allows parents to have the traditional liturgy and then form their children themselves.
00:26:59.039 --> 00:26:59.359
Yeah.
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:01.839
Like it's not, it's not that.
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:06.960
Like you're going to oh, you're you it's nothing, and you guys aren't proposing a better plan.
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:12.720
Like your your your approach is not doing anything.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:31.440
But it can I give you some insight as to why they think the way that they do, at least I think in in Steven's case, I don't know about the others, but I mean, I'm pretty sure I remember him saying publicly, uh, you know, you don't there's no you have no need of being in commute any kind of communion with your local bishop.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:47.200
I mean, I think the presumption is that every diocesan bishop is a heretic, basically, and you don't, you know, so you go to the SSPX, you don't need an approved traditional Latin mass, but the problem is that there aren't the SSPX isn't everywhere, you know.
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:58.319
Yeah, and or also they I think they would uh they would say go to a said chapel, and that has a whole other set of problems with it because and they're not everywhere either.
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:07.119
Well, yeah, practically speaking, first of all, but you know, more spiritually speaking, like that's my main concern with this new crusade against Trad Inc.
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:12.480
I think it's really about trying to legitimize 1958 set of contism.
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:16.319
I know obviously I know that's the case with the WM review.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:19.359
Uh yeah, I'm not buying that thesis either.
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:25.599
Like, I'm sorry, like I do like you guys, and I do um I do think you guys make a lot of good points.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.240
I'm not buying the 1958 SETA thesis, it's just not convincing to me.
00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:41.119
It's too much um it's too much like theory, like it's a good theory, but too much theory, and there's no proof to it, and there's no solutions offered.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:56.880
There's no solution to it, and then if you start getting and I try talking to um Mario and Kevin about this, like if if your position is that the novus ordo sacraments and the novus ordo orders are invalid, like the church is done.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.319
Exactly, and that is part and part that's what people need to understand.
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:03.759
That is part and parcel with 1958 Cedivicantism.
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:11.519
A lot of people don't realize that Cedivicantists hold that there are no legitimate diocesan bishops anywhere in the world.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:19.839
Anyone ordained after the council is invalid, uh the new rites are completely invalid, there is no more visible church.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.160
That is the logical end of their system.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.440
And and and Gregory, it's not oh no evil sedes.
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:31.599
Like, I have conversations with you guys, I just like I just don't buy the theory.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:32.559
I'm sorry.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:37.200
Like it's there's a bit of Gnosticism in it.
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:38.400
It just is.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:44.240
It's like, oh, I know this secret thing happened, and that the Pope was a Freemason and that invalidated the papacy.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:46.799
It's like, no, like I don't I don't I don't buy it.
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:47.440
I'm sorry.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:49.839
Maybe you do, and I'm not judging you for it.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:51.359
I I think there's evidence for it.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.000
I just it's not enough proof for me.
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:59.839
Um so um the claim on the table, thesis, stop naming error.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:03.440
And Leo will be freer or more inclined to expand the old right.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:08.079
Implied cost, criticism endangers permissions, silence purchases them.
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:11.519
It's not like you're saying I'm implying that, but I'm not.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.640
I'm just saying slow down for a little bit and let's see where this goes before you go into full attack mode.
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:20.640
It's more just a bit of it is a bit of prudence in this area.
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:32.960
Um, goals spare families from driving four hours for a TLM baptism right, uh, for traditional right baptism and rotating chapels by strategic deference for the length of Leo's reign.
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:34.079
This is what they nice.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:45.759
The thing is, like I know most of like the online sets that we deal with don't go.
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:48.079
So, in other words, set ink you're talking about, yeah.
00:30:48.160 --> 00:31:02.880
SETA ink, and it's really there's like a handful of them online, they don't go to mass, like, and I'm not like I've I've left the sacraments under Francis because I was what do you mean they don't go to mass because they have nowhere to go, right?
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:07.359
So they're like, Well, if there was a valid mass, I would go, but there's no valid mass, so they don't go.
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.079
I know what happened to my life when I left the and that was leaving the Novus Ordo.
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:19.440
So well, there was one famous said, I don't know if you've heard of him, Jerry Metatics, I think is how uh forgive me if I mispronounce his name.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:29.359
He was a Protestant minister, as I recall, converted to Catholicism, got into traditionalism, but then went way off the rails into set of contas, eventually became a home aloner.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:32.000
Like he didn't think anywhere, he couldn't go anywhere.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:34.400
Nowhere was valid, nowhere was legitimate.
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:36.720
So he would just read from the missile at home.
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:38.640
That's my under that's my understanding.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:39.759
That's so sad.
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:47.440
Yeah, I don't I I I don't I I just know what happened to me in my life, so I can only go by experience.
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:48.000
I don't know.
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:54.319
I mean, maybe that maybe it's anecdotal, but it's it's my experience when I left the sacraments.
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:56.720
What happened, and I'm not doing that again.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:32:06.559
And not even the SS, like other a lot of people seem to be under the impression that um the SSPX holds that the new rights of ordination are invalid.
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:07.920
That is absolutely false.
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:13.920
The SSPX, you can search on online Google SSPX New Rite Ordination Consecration.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:20.960
They hold that both the new right of priestly ordination and episcopal consecration are both valid.
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:27.759
So there, these people are going even way beyond what Archbishop Lefebvre and the society goes.
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:38.720
Yeah, it's uh um so uh let's see if there's anything else worth the trap of indult for quiet.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.680
The bait is obvious.
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:48.319
Speak deferentially, keep a low profile, and a new indult will appear, perhaps devolved to bishops, perhaps dressed in unity, but the unwritten price is silence about the revolution.
00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:50.400
I don't think we need to be silent about the revolution.
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:55.759
I think we still should be talking about the catastrophic changes since the council.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:03.119
I think that we shouldn't be circular firing, calling this one trad ink, calling them cowards for not speaking the truth.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:06.640
I think it's just a difference of how we go about this.
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:10.240
I don't think anybody is saying ignore the revolution.
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:15.680
Um uh even without a formal oath, the leash will be enforced by fear.
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:22.720
The moment a priest preaches against fiducias, fiducia, amora, synodality, ecumenism, etc., permissions can be revoked.
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:28.240
As Leo said, such things are polarizing and the use and use the liturgy as a political tool.
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:33.680
In doing so, Leo has reduced the traditional Catholic faith and its defense to a mere foreign ideology.
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:48.720
Okay, so look, the other thing is under traditionis, there were tons of bishops who just chose to ignore traditionus, they just chose to ignore it, and then Rome interfered and like forced them to enact it, right?
00:33:49.119 --> 00:34:17.280
Now if you get if you get releases on Traditionis, or if it gets, I mean, I don't think it will, but if it totally gets you know scrapped and everybody gets their mass back, mass back, and then the bishops allow it, like then I don't think the podcast arena is such a big deal because most of these parishes are stable on the ground, and most bishops didn't want to cause any trouble with these parishes, like for the for the most part, they didn't.
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:36.800
They were kind of put in a position, and then the the problem is Leo is putting people into like as bishops in these dioceses that are now like what which which was it Garcia on his way out of California, just just tossed four TLMs, I think.
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:39.840
Um in Monterey.
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:48.320
In Monterey, yeah, like on his way out, he's like four days from going into Austin, and on his way out, he's like, Yep, we're gonna squash your TLM before I go.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:53.920
Like these these men are being elevated to positions within the within the episcopate.
00:34:54.000 --> 00:34:54.960
So I don't I don't know.
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:56.639
I'm like I don't know.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:05.519
I don't know what I'm not I'm not trying to be some some uh like trad icon that tells everybody what to do.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:12.000
I'm just kind of surveying the Catholic, you have publicly said you want to rule Tradistan.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:22.400
You did I knew I'm gonna rule Tradistan one day.
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.400
I will rule Tradistan.
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:26.320
Oh, that is funny.
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:31.119
Oh, don't call me out on my uh that's why he wants to keep it together.
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:33.519
Keep it together and it breaks apart.
00:35:33.599 --> 00:35:36.559
He's got little yeah, you're not gonna have a kingdom to rule pretty soon.
00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:38.639
Oh man, we gotta keep it together, guys.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:41.679
Come on, I don't want to be king of the ashes.
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:46.559
I don't want to roll rule over a dust heap.
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:55.599
Come on, um, you'd be like uh Romulus Augustus and be just the last emperor of the uh the Roman Empire, basically.
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:56.480
Oh man.
00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:12.719
I don't know, I don't know what the answer is, but all right, the plea is always framed as compassion, stay quiet for the sake of parents and children, but at best it offers an illusory of safe, an illusion of safety, a state room on the Titanic floating for now while the ship still sinks.
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:16.400
But the ship here's my all right, here's the thing you can take it off screen.
00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:22.079
Like, this ship is sinking, like I don't know what to tell you guys, and nothing we do is going to change that.
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:26.559
Like, I am at a point where I think things are so apocalyptic.
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:28.880
I think we are at the end of the story.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:32.559
I don't, I know you guys hate when I blackpill, Rob hates when I blackpill.
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:37.599
I don't see how we're not at the end of the story, and I do think something is going to happen.
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:48.639
I see Israel having you know the Jewish people being called back to Israel and having their tentacles throughout the world the way they are, being a transnational nation the way they are.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:52.079
I don't see how this all isn't leading to the end of the story.
00:36:52.159 --> 00:37:02.320
I know what the story of Christianity is, I understand the enmity between the older brother and the younger brother, I understand the way stories work, and we are coming to the end of the story.
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:05.440
So I I don't know.
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:08.559
I don't I don't think anything we do is going to change that.
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:17.440
There's no amount of complaining on Substack that is going to change the position that is happening in the church.
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:18.960
I don't, I just isn't.
00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:31.360
So, yes, I do think we have to figure out a way to just find an enclave to be Catholic and live a Catholic life and raise our children Catholic in the meantime while we're waiting for something.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.519
All I ask is if the rapture happens, that it you get taken.
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.800
Oh yeah, you'll be left behind, my friend.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.119
In peace and quiet, all the mean things you say about people on this site.
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:49.920
Well, I think what we're going to see in one form or another, we're going to see the fulfillment of the third secret of Fatima.
00:37:50.000 --> 00:37:51.039
We haven't seen that yet.
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:57.679
There's going to be the reign of there's going to be the triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary before the second coming of Christ.
00:37:57.760 --> 00:37:59.840
I think that's very well established.
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:10.480
And 2029 is a big year because that's seems to be the hundred-year deadline for doing the actual consecration of Russia, which has yet to be done correctly.
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:21.920
Um and our Lord seemed to indicate in a in a locution to Sister Lucia in 1931, he made a comparison between you know his instructions to St.
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:36.480
Margaret Mary Alcock regarding the consecration of France, which was in 1689, and almost to the day, a hundred years later, it hadn't been done right, and the ball started rolling towards the French, you know, the beginnings of the French Revolution.
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:49.119
So he said to Sister Lucia, you know, if if my min tell my minister, I'm paraphrasing a little bit, if my ministers, if they follow the example of the king of France, they will follow him into misfortune, you know.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:49.679
Yeah.
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:54.159
So yeah, and almost a hundred years to the day it happened back then, right?
00:38:54.239 --> 00:39:07.440
Right, when when when the king finally does consecrate, and it was like too late, and it's going to be a similar situation in in in our somebody says in the chat, uh Gaspers doesn't think Francis' consecration was legit, even though Bishop Schneider does.
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:08.400
Clearly, it wasn't.
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.519
And I do, I I think Bishop Schneider is probably a living saint.
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:18.079
He probably will be, you know, one day possibly canonized.
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:19.840
I think he's a very holy man.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:25.679
I do respectfully disagree with him on that because we haven't seen the promised fruit of the consecration.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.079
Our lady made it very clear.
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.199
She says, In the end, my immaculate heart will triumph.
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:38.639
The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and it shall be converted, and the and a period of peace will be granted to the world.
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:40.239
What does conversion mean?
00:39:40.480 --> 00:39:42.239
It doesn't mean the fall of communism.
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:54.400
Sister Lucia made that very clear to a priest named Father Joaquin Alonso, who was the Fatima official Vatova archivist for many years, had many private conversations with her.
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:10.320
It doesn't even mean a return to the practice of Russian Orthodoxy, which is schismatic.
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.920
It means a return of Russia to the Catholic faith.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.719
It doesn't mean they have to become Roman Catholic.
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:25.760
They'll probably have some sort of a Russian, there's already actually a Russian Catholic Church over there, an Eastern Rite Church, but they do have to be in communion with Rome.
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:28.000
That is what the conversion of Russia means.
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:32.800
But doesn't that's a little too spicy?
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:33.519
What?
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:41.280
No, come on, what the Catholic bishops have to become Catholic before Russia becomes Catholic.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:42.400
Well, that's a fair point.
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:44.000
That's a fair point.
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:52.400
But I personally I think that that the con the actual real consecration is going to unopen the floodgates of grace for that to happen.
00:40:52.559 --> 00:40:52.880
Yeah.
00:40:53.039 --> 00:41:04.239
See, yeah, I I'm just look, I know the story of Christianity, and I know we are building up to something so apocalyptic right now.
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.760
Like the council itself was an apocalyptic moment.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:14.400
Paul the sixth laying down his papal tiara is so symbolic of the church laying down her authority.
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:19.280
Doesn't mean that her sovereignty passes to another people, but she lays down her authority.
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:23.760
The Pope is the catacomb, essentially.
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.760
He's the last he's the pontifex maximus.
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:31.920
Like he is the Roman Emperor laying down his crown and his authority.
00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:43.679
And there's something to that happening that is related to the apocalypse where a star falls from heaven and the key, the key to the bottomless pit is opened.
00:41:43.840 --> 00:41:44.800
Like who has the key?
00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:45.760
It's the Pope.
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:52.719
So the key to the bottomless pit is open and the earth is flooded with demons, and that time period is what we're living in right now.
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.960
I I can't do you know who are gonna be the most insufferable converts, though.
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:03.280
It's gonna be all the Rokour people when the when the conversion happens telling us about our faith.
00:42:04.239 --> 00:42:12.239
The uh there's going to be look, I mean, I Trump ran on, and and that's the other thing.
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:21.199
I see a lot of these guys are like so pro-MAGA, and I'm just like, do you guys really not see uh what is going on with politics right now?
00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:24.400
There is no Republican and Democrat.
00:42:24.559 --> 00:42:26.559
It's not, it's all one entity.
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:38.079
Everything we're watching right now, you're seeing Republicans come out and say the same thing leftists did about censorship, about um like all of this stuff.
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:40.000
It's still the deep state running everything.
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:42.719
Trump has not gutted the deep state, none of it.
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:46.320
It's all the same apparatus working the same way.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:48.239
It just has a different person in.
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:52.719
You have Trump in, and that's getting MAGA to go along with a lot of this stuff.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:54.639
Like, I voted for Trump.
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:58.480
I wanted Trump to be the guy they think he is, he's just not.
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:12.719
Like he just it it the people have such a a false hope in political means it's not happening, like like we're not getting out of this through politics.
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:17.840
This whole thing is leading up to something, and you're going to see the world at war soon.
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:18.639
Like, I don't care.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:23.440
You're seeing the Russia war escalate, you're just is the country is falling apart.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:28.480
You look at like we're always talking about a two-state solution in Israel.
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:43.440
And if you really think about why they're even having that conversation, is because if there was a one-state solution in Israel, that would mean Israel would have to make the Gaza Strip all citizens and they would have equal voting rights, and they would vote the Israel, the Jews out of Israel.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:45.119
And that's what they did in our country.
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:53.199
They opened the floodgates to let the Mohammedans in so that the Mohammedans would then elect their own people, and that's what you see happening in Minnesota, right?
00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:56.480
You see Minnesota, you're seeing them elect their own mayors.
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:58.239
That's what's happening throughout the world.
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:12.719
They've managed to convince former Christendom to open the gates of their country to the Mohammedans, and they're all coming in, and you're going to you're going to see things pop off soon.
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:14.079
I'm I don't know, man.
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:21.280
I'm seeing another reason why I think we need Russia to convert and become an ally of the Catholic Church is to, and that's also like St.
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:24.239
John Bosco talks about that in one of his visions.
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:47.119
I remember Father Nicholas Gruner mentioning that in one of his conference talks many years ago about salvation coming uh from the north, uh evil coming up from the like the Mohammedans coming up into Europe from the south, and Russia after the conversion of Russia, them being there in Europe to defeat the Mohammedans, many of whom will actually embrace the Catholic faith.
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:50.639
Yeah, like like salvation will come from the East again.
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:51.599
Exactly.
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:57.920
Yeah, that's the and that's the phrase that uh Father Malachi Martin also used in some of his interviews toward the end of his life.
00:44:58.159 --> 00:44:59.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:06.400
Look, the the whole the whole idea of of um allowing migrants into our country was never about votes.
00:45:06.559 --> 00:45:13.119
I mean, it is about votes, but it's more about making it so that we are no longer a people, right?
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:16.480
It's making it that we have nothing in common with one another.
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:22.800
So when World War II happened, you had an American culture, and the Americans went because they they but you did.
00:45:23.119 --> 00:45:28.320
There was no culture, there was enough patriotism where people wanted to fight for their country.
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:32.880
Like if our country went to war right now, would you want to fight for your country?
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:37.199
We would be so screwed if we were right, but but that's all that's all I'm saying.
00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:43.039
So, yeah, there's nothing that unites us as a people where you fight for Americans wanted to fight World War II.
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:47.280
Did they fight the right fight?
00:45:47.920 --> 00:46:02.480
No, maybe not, but they were still united enough as a people in towards evil in a sense, like as far as the whole as far as the holy land is concerned, maybe we should just go back to the kingdom of Jerusalem.
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:16.320
All in favor of that, say uh yeah, but that but but that's the thing, it was a Christian land, like all of the the whole Middle East was a Christian land at one point, and then Islam came in and wiped it out.
00:46:16.480 --> 00:46:26.000
And when you allow Islam to come into Europe and into America and into Canada and all these different places, it's only a matter of time before they just do the same thing, right?
00:46:26.320 --> 00:46:32.159
Um, this is why you can't just say I'll stay at home and teach my family and not worry about the church.
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:36.159
Civilization is crumbling because the church is not defending worry about the church.
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:42.800
No, but the thing is, I don't I just don't think anything we're doing is going to change these events.
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:43.760
That's all I'm saying.
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:51.199
Like right, it's not we need a Catholic version of Charlie Kirk doing what he was doing for the social kingship of Jesus Christ.
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:53.840
That's what we need in the church right now, in my opinion.
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:54.800
That would help.
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:59.119
I mean, it would help, but it's still not like.
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:02.880
Do you see how silent our hierarchy was on the Charlie Kirk thing?
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:09.519
Yeah, so I don't think they've said anything, other than I mean, Bishop Strickland has has said some good things.
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:13.599
I don't remember who all else has said things, but very few.
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:20.159
Uh Archbishop Vigano's Archbishop Vigano posted about it, so so kudos to him for that.
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:24.159
Uh, I can't remember if I've seen any other bishops posting about it.
00:47:24.239 --> 00:47:29.199
Oh, Cardinal Mueller said some nice things in his interview with Diane Montagna.
00:47:29.599 --> 00:47:31.599
So there have been a few, but not.
00:47:31.760 --> 00:47:38.800
I mean, the USCCB, I don't think they've they certainly haven't rolled out the red carpet like for George Floyd or anything like that.
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:40.320
It's but that's what I mean.
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:44.800
Like it's inside look, there's no earthly solution to how bad things are.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:46.400
It is so bad.
00:47:46.559 --> 00:47:56.960
There have been so many wicked men raised to the to the ranks of of the episcopate at this point that like it's going to take an act of God.
00:47:57.119 --> 00:47:59.760
Oh, it depends what you mean by earthly solution.
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:10.800
I I think if if if we had great saints rise up, you know, a a a modern Saint Dominic, right?
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:22.559
To to to preach a new Albigenzian crusade against the the issues we have, um, you know, a new um Bernardo Claveau to to preach a crusade against the Mohammedans, things like that.
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:27.519
If you had great saints rise up like that, um and maybe they're out there.
00:48:27.599 --> 00:48:29.280
I'm I'm sure maybe they probably are.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:37.840
But I mean here's the other thing I think that's or that could be a solution, whether or not you call that an act of God or earthly, you know, through man.
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:38.480
Yeah, right, right.
00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:48.400
I think the other thing we have to keep in mind regardless, you know, sanctity, we all need to be pursuing sanctity in our own daily lives.
00:48:48.639 --> 00:49:11.679
I know Father Ripperger talks often about the fact that I forget exactly how he puts it, but um, you know, the the power, the spiritual power of the church in a certain sense is dependent on the the holiness of the members of the church and the the virtue and the merits that we have, you know, because we're cooperating with God's grace and living a holy life.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:20.079
That's one reason why it takes so much longer for pre for exorcists to complete a major exorcism.
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:42.320
You know, decades ago it maybe would take a few days, now it takes months to years to liberate someone, and it's because the church is spiritual, the human element of the church is very spiritually weak right now because so many of her members are either dead or lukewarm, you know, we're not living our faith fervently, and that has real consequences.
00:49:42.719 --> 00:50:05.519
Yeah, and I also think that like the the allure of that the church had in the early church, especially like you had all these miracles happening, the church was like at its brightest in the early centuries, and then it goes through a period where you'd always have saints performing miracles and having mass conversions and stuff.
00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.960
You're constantly hearing this debate about is the church growing, is it shrinking?
00:50:09.039 --> 00:50:22.559
It's like it's shrinking, like I and especially in in the west, it's shrinking, like it might be growing in certain regions and other places, but in the west, Christianity is on the decline, uh, completely on the decline.
00:50:22.719 --> 00:50:41.360
You might have pockets of growth, and there might be some fervor in those pockets, but overall, the church is in the in the decline, it doesn't have these great miracles to show anymore, it doesn't look like the church of the like it doesn't look like it.
00:50:41.440 --> 00:50:44.400
It doesn't, it's it looks like Christ after he was scourged.
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:46.000
That's just what I see right now.
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:46.960
So I don't know.
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:52.480
Look, I I don't know how God is going to fix this, but I do think God is going to fix this, and I don't know.
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:54.400
And Andrew, no, that's not true.
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:58.480
It's not like you'd reject the great saints for being mouthy and rejecting apostate bishops.
00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:02.000
If I see great saints doing this, we'll we'll go from there.
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:07.760
It's not I'm I'm watching people like my peers doing this, and I'm talking to my peers.
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:11.440
If one of them's a great saint, I I defer, I'll follow your lead.
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:14.159
But I think all of us are trying to figure this thing out.
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:27.599
Well, the other thing that they need to keep in mind is that saints defer to the authority of the church, they don't make themselves the private judge of who's an apostate and who's not, they defer to the judgment of the authorities in the church.
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:31.840
Yeah, look, this is this is a complicated issue.
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:32.400
I don't know.
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:38.880
I you know, I want to at least address the article, um, and uh and address these guys.
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:41.119
Like, I I I I I like all these guys.
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:42.960
I think that we're all on the same team.
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:49.599
Like, I don't, you know, I think it's I think it's it's not like any of us don't believe the Catholic faith.
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:54.239
We all see there's a major issue that happened with the council.
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:57.840
That is the source of 90% of the problems.
00:51:58.000 --> 00:52:00.880
We're seeing it play out, it's played out over decades.
00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:03.760
The the conversation is now what is the approach?
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:04.639
What do we do?
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:09.519
Now, you guys, I'm not saying don't continue to point out the errors of Leo.
00:52:09.599 --> 00:52:18.400
I'm saying might want to go about a different strategy than than taking shots at your fellow Catholics who believe the same thing as you, or even have a disagreement.
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:30.480
Like there's ways to have this conversation where it's not where it's where it's not trying to like ruin somebody else's reputation or credibility because they're they're doing something out of cowardice or something like that.
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:32.000
I just don't think that's what it is.
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:33.920
I don't think anybody got some memo.
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:40.159
It's not like trad ink exists, it's not like trading got a memo, you guys are gonna do this now, and everybody's following marching orders.
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:48.559
I think everybody's kind of just trying to readjust under the new papacy, see what the strategy should be to go from there.
00:52:48.639 --> 00:52:51.599
I I don't think there's some somebody leading this thing.
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.079
That's all I that's that's all I'm thinking.
00:52:54.559 --> 00:53:02.559
Well, if people if people want to know where I stand on Leo, they can listen to my uh my discussion I had with Ryan Grant on Monday of this week.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:12.000
We went for uh over three hours on my channel, Very Tati's Vox, dissecting in great detail his recent interview with Crux.
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:29.199
And I have we had plenty of criticisms, we're certainly not holding back, but we also don't need to uh go to the other extreme and say, well, you know, Leo's not the Pope because I personally think he's guilty of heresy, like that's just not how it works.
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:38.000
Well, trad inc exists in as much as there are people who made their living by being trad and presenting the trad position.
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:49.199
That is like if you're gonna say who's trad inc, if somebody is making their livelihood on presenting themselves as a trad, that is what you could say is trad ink, I guess, right?
00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:50.880
Like that's that they're making a living.
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.679
I'm just Stephen Cox is trad inc.
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:56.480
Yes, yeah, that's the thing.
00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:57.920
Like, where do you draw the line?
00:53:58.079 --> 00:54:01.199
I was managing editor of Catholic Family News for over seven years.
00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:02.800
Does that mean I'm trad inc?
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:07.119
Because I mean, that's basically saying that journalism is not a legitimate profession.
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:08.159
That's what you're saying.
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:11.280
I'm not gonna go there, Matt.
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:15.440
It's absolutely a legitimate profession.
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:16.880
I know people need to read.
00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:29.199
Ken Kennedy Hall wrote an outstanding article a couple years ago for the uh New Oxford Review, where he distinguished between a professional Catholic, which is the pejorative, versus a Catholic professional.
00:54:29.360 --> 00:54:32.480
I I would highly recommend people find that article and read it.
00:54:32.559 --> 00:54:34.320
I forget the title of it.
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:40.960
Trad ink and someone who does three hour podcasts, shouldn't someone who does three hour podcasts with Ryan Grant.
00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:42.719
That's what you were supposed to say.
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:44.960
You were supposed to accuse Matt of being trading.
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:47.599
I don't even monetize my channel, people.
00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:48.960
It's all free.
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:50.960
I don't even have any paid supporters.
00:54:51.119 --> 00:54:53.039
You're seriously that you should.
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:57.519
If you're gonna be called trad ink, man, you might as well make money.
00:54:57.760 --> 00:54:59.280
You may as well cash in on it, bro.
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:00.079
Come on.
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:07.199
Um, all right, so we're gonna go over to locals and we're gonna we're gonna do the Protestant canonization of Charlie Kirk because I have a lot of thoughts on that.
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:10.559
Um, I didn't think this would go an hour, I didn't know where it was gonna go tonight.
00:55:10.639 --> 00:55:15.679
But I yeah, look, um I I hope to have conversations with these guys.
00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:16.559
Like, I really do.
00:55:16.639 --> 00:55:18.960
I I I would like to have conversations with them.
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:24.320
I I'm I'm probably gonna do another one with Mario and Kevin.
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:33.760
Um I I Joshua Charles said he was open to discussing the passion of the church with the set of acantists, so that's a possibility too.
00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:36.000
Like, I'm not I I I'm I don't know.
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:38.480
I'm I'm open to all conversations, man.
00:55:38.559 --> 00:55:40.239
Like, I and I'm gonna get a lot of things wrong.
00:55:40.320 --> 00:55:45.599
Like that last show we did, I said a bunch of things when I was tired, and then I went back and I and I was thinking about it.
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:51.199
I'm like, yeah, there's a little soft pedal in that because I was probably trying to be too cordial or something.
00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:53.519
Like, I I am I'm too amiable.
00:55:53.760 --> 00:56:04.400
I like to I I want like I fall into that mode of not wanting to to argue with people, and it I don't it's it's hard for me.
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:08.400
I'm an Italian and I like everybody to get along and stuff, so you know it's one of my faults.
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:10.480
That's an Italian thing, yeah.
00:56:10.719 --> 00:56:19.360
Yeah, we just want everybody to get along, be happy, and I'm not yeah, you know, unless somebody like directly confronts you, and then it's just you'll go for their throat, right?
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:24.800
So this morning I woke up and I saw that Chris wrote that article, and I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna go for his throat.
00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:27.599
And I was Chris, I almost lost it if you're watching.
00:56:27.760 --> 00:56:29.760
Like, and then I calmed down a bit.
00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:32.480
I was like, All right, I'll settle down a bit.
00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:39.840
Uh um, it's uh it's it's not just using your brain, it is that, yeah, absolutely.
00:56:40.159 --> 00:56:49.280
It's actually using your intellect, it's using your it's using your intellect, but it's also looking at um looking at the promises of Christ as well.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:56:55.519
And like a lot of actors use their brain too, so you can't just say that.
00:56:56.159 --> 00:56:56.960
Yeah, that's true.
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.440
Yeah, everybody claims they're using their intellect, right?
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:01.599
There's gotta be there's gotta be something to it.
00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:05.280
So um, all right, we're gonna head over to locals.
00:57:05.360 --> 00:57:07.280
Um, we'll see where this conversation goes.
00:57:07.360 --> 00:57:09.679
Uh, we'll probably give it a rest for next week.
00:57:09.840 --> 00:57:13.519
It was, you know, just on my mind this week.
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:21.119
Uh, I hope everybody uh does figure out a good a good game plan and that everybody could come to the table and have a conversation.
00:57:21.360 --> 00:57:23.360
That's that's my position on it.
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:24.800
How about you, Matt?
00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:27.199
You got any got any final thoughts before we go?
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:29.840
Oh, I'm not sure.
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:32.480
I think I've said what I wanted to say about it.
00:57:32.559 --> 00:57:38.800
I mean, um I just I think it's in poor taste to use the pejorative constantly.
00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:41.360
I mean, and it's almost getting obsessive at this point.
00:57:41.440 --> 00:57:43.760
I think that's what really strikes me as odd.
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:47.920
Like, is that I I have to agree with you.
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:55.360
Like, if I were building a platform, I wouldn't want it to be about obsessing about my enemies or those who I perceive to be my enemy.
00:57:55.440 --> 00:58:05.840
Like, you gotta be pursuing something good, it can't just be attacking other people, and and I think it's also about like building relationships is very important.
00:58:06.559 --> 00:58:07.440
It just is well.
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:08.960
Should we do super chats before we go, Rob?
00:58:09.039 --> 00:58:12.400
We we we definitely should read super chats before we go, sure.
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:14.000
Um okay.
00:58:14.159 --> 00:58:22.400
Uh, I think two two biggest issues as one interfaith church replacing missionary church necessary for salvation, and two changes to the mass.
00:58:22.639 --> 00:58:27.920
Yeah, like uh ecumenism is by far the most baffling thing since the council.
00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:40.719
Um, the idea that Muslims and Jews worship the same God as us, I am completely baffled by I I the way I see it is Jesus goes and tells the Pharisees they worship the devil.
00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:42.880
I don't know how we make sense of that.
00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:47.280
Um Bobby says, uh, the point of the council was to meet the world where it is.
00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:51.280
The post-conciliar popes, in that spirit of the council, have been afraid to offend the world.
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:53.280
I agree wholeheartedly with that.
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:58.400
Um, and then papal monarchist enjoyer.
00:58:58.639 --> 00:59:08.800
The issue that I had with that article when I read through it is that by proxy, it leaves young trads like me in a difficult spot of feeling like traitors to the cause that we were never a part of.
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:10.960
The art meaning Chris Jackson's article.
00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:12.159
Chris Jackson's article, yeah.
00:59:12.400 --> 00:59:13.199
I assume so.
00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:20.880
Yeah, like the yeah, yeah, like I can I kind of get that, right?
00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:30.559
Like you read through it, and it's like any anybody that takes that position, it's like you're betraying some movement or something.
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:32.000
I I don't I don't know.
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:34.719
I just think it's a disagreement on on approach.
00:59:34.880 --> 00:59:35.760
That's what I think of it.
00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:53.599
And like I think a more constructive way to approach the whole issue would be to be exhorting if you if you think Michael Matt doesn't have the right strategy, if you think Taylor Marshall doesn't have the right strategy, share respectfully share your disagreement and exhort them to maybe reconsider.
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:56.159
Don't start trashing them as trad ink.
00:59:56.719 --> 01:00:02.239
That's just gonna that's just gonna turn them off to you and It's not gonna do anything, it's not gonna help.
01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:05.760
Yeah, they're not like me, they're not gonna get down in the mud and talk to you guys.
01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:09.360
Like, like I don't know.
01:00:09.440 --> 01:00:12.639
I like I like I like getting in the mud and talking to everybody.
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:15.599
Like, I don't those guys aren't gonna they don't even talk to me usually.
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:17.760
Michael Matt, Michael Matt doesn't talk to me.
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:22.719
Oh, I was gonna say the person I feel most sorry for right now is Michael Matt.
01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:29.440
That's because he's gonna make one of two mistakes on Sunday when you're at mass with him.
01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:36.880
He's either going to acknowledge you and then have to listen to you, or he's gonna ignore you and then have a video made about him.
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:40.400
He's gotta know who we are.
01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:43.199
He has to know who we are.
01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:47.039
It's it's virtually impossible for Michael Matt to not know who we are.
01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:49.679
I've never had a conversation with the guy, but come on.
01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.239
If he pretends he doesn't know me, you're right.
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:53.760
There's gonna be a video afterwards.
01:00:54.639 --> 01:00:55.920
I know I brought it.
01:00:58.559 --> 01:01:00.639
Yes, you guys are the rip rap.
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:08.000
Yeah, if I go and I and I meet Michael Matt or I see him at Mass and he pretends he doesn't know me, there's gonna be an episode after that.
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:09.519
I'm joining the Mad Trads.
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:12.480
I was gonna say I'm writing an article for Chris Jackson.
01:01:13.039 --> 01:01:14.800
Trad Inc is a problem.
01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:16.719
Yes, absolutely.
01:01:17.039 --> 01:01:21.360
I will absolutely I'm gonna write an article for Chris Jackson Substack if that happens.
01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:22.639
I'll tell you right now.
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:28.880
He doesn't even have a silver YouTube play button and wants Michael Matt to acknowledge him.
01:01:29.199 --> 01:01:33.280
Oh you think Brad would have us on if we had a silver play button?
01:01:33.519 --> 01:01:34.320
I don't know.
01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:35.119
I don't know.
01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:36.320
I can't figure Matt out.
01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:36.960
I like Matt.
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:38.960
I actually talked to him the other day.
01:01:39.840 --> 01:01:41.360
We'll uh we'll see how that goes.
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:46.480
We're gonna we're gonna try and uh keep keep keep keep all channels open for dialogue.
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:47.679
We'll see how that goes.
01:01:47.840 --> 01:01:48.880
I know it'll happen.
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:52.239
We'll get Kevin James on, and then everybody will want to talk to us.
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:53.519
That's how it's gonna go.
01:01:54.239 --> 01:01:55.679
Kevin James is Catholic.
01:01:56.719 --> 01:01:57.599
I just heard that.
01:01:57.679 --> 01:01:58.400
It's so crazy.
01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:02.400
Somebody just mentioned Kevin James is Catholic, and I can't I can't get over it.
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:03.119
It's wild.
01:02:03.599 --> 01:02:05.840
Next, you're gonna tell me like Rob Schneider's Catholic, too, or something.
01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:07.519
Rob Schneider's Catholic?
01:02:08.239 --> 01:02:11.760
Um, no, but Father Rippiger is joining us on Tuesday, right?
01:02:13.519 --> 01:02:14.000
I don't know.
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:17.920
You're the one that made it so the 29th, right?
01:02:18.079 --> 01:02:22.880
Yes, father Ripper on the Monday's the 29th, Monday's the 20th or the 30th.
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:23.599
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:24.079 --> 01:02:26.800
The next show we're on, Father Rippiger will be on with us.
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:27.679
Nice.
01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:29.280
Let's talk about Trading.
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:33.360
No matter how many times you pull that joke, someone falls for it.
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:34.639
Every time.
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:39.440
I'm happy to say I'm gonna be having Father on my channel as well pretty soon.
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:41.360
Father Ripper is the Catholic.
01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:46.159
When do you have Father coming on?
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:49.440
Uh October 13th, Fatima anniversary.
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:51.920
I'm glad we got him first.
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:53.679
We're gonna get the juicy sound bites out of them.
01:02:53.760 --> 01:02:55.119
We'll leave you with nothing.
01:02:55.360 --> 01:02:57.760
Um all right, guys.
01:02:57.840 --> 01:02:58.800
We're heading over to locals.
01:02:58.880 --> 01:03:00.239
If you guys aren't members, come over there.
01:03:00.320 --> 01:03:04.159
That's where we have all the fun and we uh we get pretty fun so far.
01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:05.679
It's always fun on our show.
01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:06.719
We always have a good time.
01:03:06.800 --> 01:03:08.239
But all right, we'll see you guys on the other side.
01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:09.199
Take us out, Rob.
01:03:28.480 --> 01:03:29.599
Hello everyone.
01:03:29.679 --> 01:03:48.239
Uh, this is Ryan here, your host at Preconciliar Radio, uh, doing my first broadcast uh today on a topic that unfortunately um I'm deeply, deeply saddened.
01:03:48.559 --> 01:03:58.239
And I'm deeply saddened for uh my day job uh is that of an attorney, and I am suing someone for monetary gain.
01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:01.039
Thanks a lot, Anthony.
01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:06.159
Oh man.