Your Client Isn’t the Devil: The Myths Keeping Account Leaders Stuck

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each week, we ponder the
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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
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all want, working on purpose. Now, here's your host, Dr.
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Elise Cortez.
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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has
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been brought to you with Passion Enterprise since February of 2015.
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Thanks for tuning in this week.
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Great to have you. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez.
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I'm an organizational psychologist, workforce advisor, Vistage chair, and the
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founder of The Gusto Now Foundation. your partner in growing
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your people, leadership, and culture. We are all about helping
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you unleash the energy and capacity of your people by
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accessing their gusto and unleashing it. The very life force
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performance as we see it that drives commitment, perseverance, and
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genuine ownership of a shared mission. You can learn more
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about us and how we can work together at EliseCortez.com,
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my personal site, or our regular site is gusto-now.com. Getting
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into today's program, we have with us Paul Drew. He's
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a technology executive, program leader, and and a seven-time entrepreneur
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whose career has centered on business process improvement, scaling teams,
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and delivering large infrastructure programs. He leads Inertia Labs, where
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he applies an operator's discipline to complex infrastructure and business challenges.
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Paul is the co-author of My Client is the Devil
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and Other Myths Revisited, an updated field guide to leadership,
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client relationships, and professional effectiveness in the modern workforce. We'll
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be talking about what he's learned through his years of
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starting and running businesses, and several of the myths he
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and his co-authors address in their book.
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He joins us today from Dallas. Paul, welcome to Working
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on Purpose.
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Hi. Thanks for having me.
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It's so great to have you, and I really appreciate
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that we have known each other for well over 10 years,
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and I have watched you do all these things. I've
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watched you start these businesses, grow them, and move on
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to the next. So we'll be extracting as much wisdom
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as we can from this conversation.
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You ready?
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Yes, ma'am.
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Okay, well, let's start.
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With, you know, the fun, provocative title that you chose
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for your book.
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I think it's delightful. My client is the devil.
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So let's just start with, you know, why did you
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choose such a provocative title?
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What's under that?
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Well, I love that you started there. And it's kind
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of where we start on this whole thing is that
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it's easy to look at your client and think of
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all the things that go with that word and And
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then think of it in a devilish way. They're there
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to make our life hard. They're there to cause us trouble.
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But the reality is the client is a person. It's
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a person that you're trying to connect with with some
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shared goals. Now, that person happens to come with a
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budget and a schedule and pressures and their own brand
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and their own baggage, their own achievements they want to get,
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whether it's a gold star or a promotion or hitting
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some KPIs. That's where the real friction comes in between
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the people is all those things that they bring to
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that relationship. And part of why we chose the cover
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of the book that we did, which is a Rorschach inkblot,
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is to show the idea that you see what you
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want to see out of this. So if you choose
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to see the client as a devil, that's how you're
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going to interpret what they do. But if you choose
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to look at it through different lenses and realize they're
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a person just like you trying to accomplish the goals,
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you'll have a much higher chance of hitting the goals
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and connecting with the person and getting beyond the devil
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monochrome into a strong relationship over time.
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Beautifully explained.
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And you're reminding me of some of the work I've
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done over the years around breakthrough and innovation. And there's
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this idea that everyone starts to develop a listening for
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someone else. And so you're anticipating what who this person
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is and what they're doing. You have a listening for
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what they're going to bring forward according to what you
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expect because of your past experiences and that lens and
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all the projecting stuff you're talking about. And it is
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incredibly powerful. And many times we have to learn how
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to intervene in that because sometimes that listening is really
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strong and positive, but other times it becomes a very,
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very negative.
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Downward spiral.
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Yeah, I like to think about Epictetus and Stoicism. He
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talks about every situation as two handles, one that you
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can carry and one that you can't. And that idea
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and concept is really helpful to recognize which handle you're
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trying to grab from. If you're trying to grab from
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the broken one that's not going to work for you,
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you're going to grab from the one that actually you
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can carry it with, take it with you, and resolve
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it with. I really love that. It helps the same
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duality of a situation.
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Mm-hmm. You know, of course, so much of your book,
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of course, I resonate with because so many of the
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things that you're teaching in that book are also part
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of what we teach in our consulting in our programs. So,
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of course, I have to celebrate the inside-out shift that
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you talk about. And you talk about it in the book,
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and you argue that the goal is not simply to
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make the client easier, but to help the account lead
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to feel better and function better. So this emotional self-management
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is the foundation for better business results, you argue, and
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I would agree. And I think you might be just
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saying that, just writing that, because you know it would
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actually melt my heart.
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But let's dive into that.
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Well, there's another phrase that comes after that sentence that
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we use a lot in the book. It's about managing
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the damage. All throughout the day, we're taking shrapnel and
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we're dealing with a lot of cognitive load, a lot
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of emotional labor that comes up throughout the day in
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how you interact with other people. But your brain... And
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your thoughts is the one thing in this world that
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you can control. I know many people are going to
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listen to this and argue, I can't control my brain.
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And I'll say, well, that's part of the problem. You
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got to be able to get control of your brain.
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It's the one thing that you can influence. You can
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influence your body to be healthy and strong by treating
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it well, feeding it well, going to the gym. But
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you can't stop something from happening to it. The one
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thing we can control is our actions and how we
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respond to the situation. So this whole premise around that
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is you got to get your head right before you're
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going to get anything else right, because otherwise you're going
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to be in for a really long, painful adventure.
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100% Paul, 100%.
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Okay.
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Now we've been talking about how the client is the devil,
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but we do know that there are some difficult clients, right?
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That we just have to deal with. It's part of
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the package.
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I can think of a couple of clients years ago
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when we had this online feedback portal for the HR space,
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and we were recording some of them, and I was
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amazed at the size of some of these egos. So
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what I'd like to explore here is what can a demanding, vague,
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or unpleasant client actually teach us about our own blind spots,
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these assumptions we've been talking about, and even habitual reactions?
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Yeah, I love this question. I'm reminded of Marcus Aurelius
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in his meditations journal. You know, he wasn't attending for
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other people to read it, but he wrote to himself
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about today. He was going to meet dishonest people. He
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was going to meet liars. He was going to meet
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people that were up to no good. And so, therefore,
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it should be no surprise when he encountered them and
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shouldn't be offended. Like, how did these people exist? We
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know these people exist. But taking that and putting it
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aside and thinking about where the imbalance might be from
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what a client wants and where you're at and ready
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to be able to service them. A mentor earlier in
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my career told me that every time that I come
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with a tough situation, it's like going to the gym
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and hitting a new muscle group. You got to tear
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it down before you can build it up. And that
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process has to repeat. Every time that you're in front
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of a customer or working on engagement is a rep.
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It's a batting average. No one hits perfect. But every
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time you get up, you want to swing a little
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bit more. So if you got this client that, oh,
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my God, they're pushing this compliance on you and you
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don't have time and nobody wants compliance, have news for you.
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That's going to make your business better. That's going to
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make it stronger, more defensible, and it may actually let
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you learn a lot more about what you didn't know.
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And so every area of opportunity is really what those
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challenges become. If we're only brave enough to see it
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as an opportunity to grow and become better, because otherwise
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we're just doing the same thing over and over again.
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And that's pretty boring, isn't it? So I started like
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leaning into customer challenges. And I'd say one of the
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hallmarks of my career is I like talking to customers
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and saying, what's keeping you up at night? What's going
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on with you? And I kind of like poke and
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pick around to find their hard spots because that's where
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I know there's going to be some real value, not
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only in my own growth, but helping them with something
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maybe they haven't even surfaced yet because they don't know
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how to. So that is real. The real, I think,
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metal of a relationship comes in is really tackling the
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hard things, not the easy things. Everyone can deal with
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the easy things, especially in perfect circumstances. But when is
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life perfect circumstances?
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Yeah, so true. So true.
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You said something really powerful there, Paul, that I want
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to go down this track just a little bit. Something
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about helping them articulate what they maybe didn't even know themselves,
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something like that. I am convinced, 100% convinced, that so
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much of the work that we do around helping to
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grow individuals and leaders and culture, the problems that are
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underneath that are really, really difficult to talk about and
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to get connected to. And I think so much of
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the work, your work, what you're just now describing there
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with your clients, and the work that we do too,
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is really getting faster and more efficient and effective at
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helping them to connect with that problem, articulate it for themselves.
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so they understand it and then therefore it's addressable yeah.
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I agree yeah there's a lot of challenge particularly in
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2026 as we're recording this with the ever-present feeling that
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we have to be perfect and we have to be
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fast And those two things are not in congruence with
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each other.
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Boy, isn't that the truth.
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Well, that gets us to start jumping in some of
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these myths here. There's a cluster here, and one of
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them is perfection, truth, and failure, which I want to
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get into those to the extent that we don't need
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to go heavy dive into them. But I think that
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you've done a beautiful job, and I love watching what
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you're doing on LinkedIn, too, where you're taking these myths
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and sharing them as well. But perfection, truth, and failure.
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So these beliefs, I must be flawless. My way is
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the right way. Boy, that's one of my favorites, by
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the way. And criticism means I'm a failure. So they
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reinforce each other. So let's talk about these myths, however
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you want to address them and help bring them to
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life for us and why they're actually myths. What's a
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better way for us to view them?
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Well, myths are really... are takeaways from society. They're things
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that we've heard or interpreted or sometimes we're explicitly told
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to do. When it comes to parents, for example, a
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lot of parents are like, I said so, that's why.
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And we get into, well, that's the way we do
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it because that's the way mom said it. What I
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like to do instead is say, you know, we can
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all agree there's more than one right ways to do things.
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And I encourage people to be open-minded and curious. But
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most professionals are adapting imperfectly to what's happening based on
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these myths that they're bringing into situations. And they don't
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feel like they have the opportunity to make a failure.
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We've heard people say, go fast, break things, you know,
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fail fast. I don't want to feel fast. Do you
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want to feel fast? I don't want to look silly.
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That's for the other guy. And so there's this ego
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preservation that kind of steps into that. But if you're
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not learning, you're not growing. And my wife is, she
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summed this up perfectly for me one time. She said,
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how can you learn anything if you know it already?
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And so, especially as a leader, It's important for me
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to start asking a lot of questions instead of saying, no,
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my job is to lead people to where I think
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there might be trouble and they can help me figure
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out if they've thought about it or not. And sometimes
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that helps them get there without me having to call
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their baby ugly. So also making it safe to your
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teams and everyone involved you that it's okay. This is
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an imperfect art. But I think that it really needs
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to literally be said out loud to allow people to
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feel safe to make mistakes. But feedback from others becomes
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data that helps us improve at the end of the day.
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In the absence of that, how do you know? How
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do you know? I've talked to a lot of people
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that have been doing this for 25 years, and I
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start talking to them. It's the same year 25 times.
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There's been no growth. There's been no learning because they've
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got their way of doing things. And it doesn't move
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us forward as people.
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No, it doesn't. And that's so much of the work
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that we do as well, Paul.
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And I want to go back to what you just
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said there on the criticism and feedback loop. I know
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we've had the privilege of working with some companies to
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help them develop their culture so that it does include
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this notion that, you know, we're, we're an organization that
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thrives on feedback and we give it in a way
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that's intended to honor the other person, to care for
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the other person, to extend the other person and support
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that person in their growth. And when you create an
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environment where that's how feedback is experienced and You're going
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to always have to deal with people that experience feedback
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as a form of rejection or removal of love as
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they were growing up. That's just part of the human condition.
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But where it gets so exciting is when you see
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these organizations where they really have created a psychologically safe
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space for people to give feedback that's supportive, it's real,
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it's constructive, and for the other person to receive it
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in a way that it's the gift that they got
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from their colleague.
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It's not a condemnation.
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I agree. Sorry, someone called me and I had to
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cancel it.
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You're so good. Just running a company while I'm doing
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the podcast, that's all.
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Just bear with me at least. I got you, Paul.
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That is just priceless. And it's perfect for people that
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are listening, knowing that you've started seven companies.
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And we'll get to that at some point as well.
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Okay, so we have to hit the, there's an exhaustion
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cluster as well that I thought was really interesting. The martyrdom,
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the productivity, the visibility factor.
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Oh my gosh.
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And so, so many professionals are equating suffering and constant
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output and being seen with, with having, with being valued
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and providing value. So let's talk about those kinds of myths.
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I would love to, I am very guilty about this.
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I work myself a lot and there's no one meaner
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in this world to me than me. I'm working on that.
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And I know that most people listening feel that, um,
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There's a million things I could point out to why
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our society, particularly in America, has turned into hustle culture.
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Everywhere you look is crying for greatness. Just do it.
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Everything is screaming at us to go harder, go faster.
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We've watched everyone have to sink to multiple income streams
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and everyone is trying to achieve their new idealistic version
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of success. And everyone says, you got to just work
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real hard for it. You have Elon saying he works
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100 hours a week and It's just omnipresent everywhere is
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that it's more, more, more, never less. But as I've
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gotten older in my career, less is certainly more. I
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find that as I continue to work harder, that work
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is actually just me cleaning up my own mess from
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fatigue and lazy decisions that should have been thought through more.
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And then I'm in a cycle of cleaning up my
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own mess. So slowing down to speed up, it's been
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one of the greatest gifts I gave myself. Sometimes I
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sit here at the computer and I've got something on
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my heart, you know, my head. I'm trying to figure
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out how to solve something. There's a lot of distractions.
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There's a lot of screens. And I get up and
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I'll go start a little laundry or empty the dishwasher
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or go for a walk. And sometimes just the act
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of walking downstairs, go pet my cat, come back up,
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I'll get the answer. But it's the space. As a
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species in society, there is no space anymore. Right. I
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know when you were younger, when I was younger, I
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had to entertain myself for hours and days on end
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and come up with ideas and things. And now there's
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no shortage of things to have our attention. So what
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we haven't done is allow that space to come back
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in to give us the freedom to make decisions.
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I will comment on that a bit more, but let's
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grab our first break. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez.
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We're on the air with Paul Drew.
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He's a technology executive, program leader, and a seven-time entrepreneur
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whose career has centered on business process improvement, scaling teams,
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and delivering large infrastructure programs. He leads inertial labs where
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he applies an operator's discipline to complex infrastructure and business challenges.
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We've been diving into the myths in his book and
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also extracting some knowledge and perspective from his business ventures.
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After the break, we will continue discussion on these myths
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as well as talking about the fractured workplace.
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We'll be right back.
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Thank you.
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Dr.
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Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose,
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an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for
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greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused
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cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.
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To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to
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your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about
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how to get your employees working on purpose. This is
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Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our
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program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send
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00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:47.630
an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to
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Working on Purpose.
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Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working
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on Purpose. I am your host, Dr.
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Elise Cortez.
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As I am dedicated to helping create a world where
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organizations thrive because their people thrive and they're led by
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inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness.
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And we do business that betters the world. I keep
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researching and writing my own books. So one of my
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latest came out, it's called The Great Revitalization, How Activating
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Meaning and Purpose Can Radically Enliven Your Business. And I
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wrote it to help leaders understand today's very diverse and
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discerning workforce. What do they want and need from you
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to give their best and stick around? And then I
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give you 22 best practices to equip you to provide
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that for them through your leadership and your culture. You
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can find my books on Amazon or my personal site, EliseCortez.com.
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If you are just now tuning in, my guest is
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Paul Drew. He's the co-author of My Client is the
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Devil and Other Myths Revisited, an updated field guide to leadership,
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client relationships, and professional effectiveness in the modern workplace. So
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going back to what we were talking about before the break,
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I want to go down two different lanes here. One
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is that space to think that you mentioned. When you
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go to start a load of laundry or go down
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and spend some time and pet the cat.
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I love cats, by the way. So one of the
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things we.
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Consistently hear, Paul, from the people or the organizations we
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work with, and we do a lot of work with leaders,
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is they say that the time that they have with
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us is that crucial time critical time that gives them
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that space to think, holds that space for them to
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be able to think and therefore come to more valuable,
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complete decisions. And so I just wanted to echo what
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you said there and carving out time to do that
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or having a discipline or having some awareness for that
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is really, really important.
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Yeah, there's two things I want to make on this,
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two top points. One is we have a lot of
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remote employees. I work remote myself. And we talk a
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lot about it in the book, and the story's a
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lot of work from my own personal perspective about how
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challenging it is to work from home because work becomes
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a gas. It fills every crack and crevice. When you
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go to the bathroom, you're still working. When you're downstairs
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in the kitchen, you may have your phone clutched with
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you because you're still working. Used to work had boundaries
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and walls that you could escape from. So as a
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broker to our team, we send them a purple LED
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lamp like you see in my background here. And what
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we ask them to do is be prepared, present, and
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professional during the workday. They turn on the light like
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they're on the air. And when their shift is over,
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and I don't keep track of when that hour is,
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by the way, we measure results, not body temperature, they
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turn it off. That's their permission to not check Slack,
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not check their email, not to worry that somebody's going
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to message them if something's come up. Nope, your home
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is now just your home. The light's off, you go home.
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And that's our deal that we have with them is
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if it's important, I'll call their cell phone. But rarely
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is there ever a need for me to contact somebody
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after hours.
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I really appreciate that because otherwise, that's where we get
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into the fractured workplace when otherwise it's just a constant flow.
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So I appreciate how you address that.
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Now, since you all work remotely, you don't necessarily have, well,
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you still do, I guess, the visibility myth problem that
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I have to be seen or both individuals believing that
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they have to be seen to believe that they're showing
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that they're adding value. But from our vantage point, we
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think the bigger problem is when leaders think that people
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have to be seen to believe that they're working.
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I agree exactly with your sentiment. The visibility myth is
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particularly prone to remote workers who feel out of sight,
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out of mind. I talk about it, Joe in the book,
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he's invisible. He's a highly paid overworked ghost. And he's
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not in the office with the rest of his colleagues.
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And he knows that there are meetings that happen in
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the hallway or the meeting before the meeting or the
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meeting after the meeting. So you slip into some performative
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ways theatrics to make yourself seen where you're sending messages,
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maybe after hours or early hours or scheduling emails to send.
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And then you get into this arm with your employer
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where they're looking to see if you're moving your mouse
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and you buy a mouse jiggler. None of that is
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helping actually solve the problems that you were hired for. Yeah.
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And so it does start with trust and enabling your people,
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but it is a constant battle of trying to deliver
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value to in a world that sometimes necessarily doesn't value, um,
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quality more than it does presence. And when you have
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mixed environments, those can be really hard to navigate.
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We've had many other guests on Paul, um, talking about the, the,
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how a focus on output or results is, is better
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than a focus on, on visibility. Um, so finding ways
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to track, what are you actually producing versus can I
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actually see them? I think that one of the worst,
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I can't, In terms of human dignity, the idea of
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having to buy a mouse jiggler to prove that I'm working,
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to me, that is desecration of a human being.
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It's tough. It's really tough. Activity is not the same
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as output value.
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Right.
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And we have to just really recognize that. And, you know,
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also going back to before, hustle culture rewards busyness appearance. Mm-hmm.
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Mm-hmm. Yeah, so we are totally out to change that
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as well in cultures and help create a place where
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people can actually breathe and have a whole semblance of
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a full life, but be really proud of the incredible
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contribution that they're making and feeling great about being part
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of an organization that they feel good about. It's just
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such an important part of life. It's considering how much
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we work. If we can get that, if we can
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just improve that, even.
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Just 10%, it would make a huge difference.
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Absolutely agree.
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So, you know, I can't let you off the show
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without talking about AI. You know, you of all people,
483
00:24:42.069 --> 00:24:45.000
you have spent your whole career in technology. I have
484
00:24:45.059 --> 00:24:48.680
many fond memories of you talking about having your daughters
485
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:52.039
build computers so that they knew technology would.
486
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:55.960
Be close to you and knew your world. So this
487
00:24:56.049 --> 00:24:58.809
idea of human value in the age of AI.
488
00:24:58.890 --> 00:25:01.490
So there's an obsolescence myth that you talk about that
489
00:25:01.549 --> 00:25:06.609
machines determine our worth. And so now, I think there
490
00:25:06.630 --> 00:25:09.039
are still so many people who are reticent and they
491
00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:10.079
don't understand AI.
492
00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:11.259
They're scared by it, whatever.
493
00:25:11.299 --> 00:25:14.700
So how can account leads or business people in general
494
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.700
use AI to think better while doubling down on their
495
00:25:17.779 --> 00:25:21.299
own judgment, their own ethics, their own creativity, and their relationships?
496
00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:25.990
Yeah, I love this question because it's very easy to
497
00:25:26.470 --> 00:25:30.519
realize how powerful these platforms are. how intelligent they are.
498
00:25:30.539 --> 00:25:35.200
I was showing my father-in-law AI, and he's in the
499
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:37.490
oil business, and he has this one special thing that
500
00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:41.329
he's known, his company's been known for, and I showed
501
00:25:41.369 --> 00:25:43.089
him what it said about that, and his answer was,
502
00:25:43.150 --> 00:25:46.230
who told him? He was very confused at how all
503
00:25:46.289 --> 00:25:50.730
his secrets were out there. It levels the playing field
504
00:25:50.750 --> 00:25:53.150
when it comes to knowledge, but the reality is, is
505
00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:59.500
AI is an enabler, for you to have more judgment.
506
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:06.319
As we've matured as a society and projects get more complicated,
507
00:26:06.380 --> 00:26:12.420
the administrative and governance and pageantry of running programs is exhaustive.
508
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:18.089
It's a burden. The PowerPoints, the Excel files, the KPIs,
509
00:26:18.890 --> 00:26:23.170
the exports, there's so much time that gets put into
510
00:26:23.630 --> 00:26:29.519
humans generating data for others, that we lost the actual
511
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:32.839
value of a real project and program manager. They've been
512
00:26:32.900 --> 00:26:38.980
delegated to administrative handlers and people who schedule calls. But really,
513
00:26:39.460 --> 00:26:42.579
that's where the real operational value lives is in that
514
00:26:42.660 --> 00:26:46.200
experience that's lived across all those projects and programs within
515
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:50.970
a company. And so by leveraging AI as your partner
516
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:54.119
to help you produce more of those artifacts at a
517
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.599
higher quality than you've ever been able to do, frees
518
00:26:57.700 --> 00:27:02.549
up time. This is the trick. Everyone thinks that they
519
00:27:02.589 --> 00:27:05.940
have to fill that extra time with more volume of work,
520
00:27:06.019 --> 00:27:10.019
and it's the opposite. So what you're seeing is everyone's
521
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.150
so overwhelmed with AI slop, is what you call it.
522
00:27:13.569 --> 00:27:16.450
People with these huge documents, and you get a reading
523
00:27:16.529 --> 00:27:21.240
assignment instead of actually something you could understand. The real
524
00:27:21.299 --> 00:27:24.279
value is turning them into actionable insights that you can
525
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:27.849
deliver value and you can spend more time asking, what's
526
00:27:27.890 --> 00:27:29.930
going on with the program? Let's get into it a
527
00:27:29.950 --> 00:27:33.450
little bit more detail. Let's actually hold the retros that
528
00:27:33.470 --> 00:27:35.369
we always say we're going to do but never really
529
00:27:35.410 --> 00:27:38.130
get around to it. Are we going to have the postmortem?
530
00:27:38.150 --> 00:27:42.319
What are the learnings? How about we actually develop training
531
00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:46.400
material ahead of time? These are enablers to the things
532
00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.859
we all know we want done. that we should get
533
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:52.509
and we deserve so that we could be successful. But instead,
534
00:27:52.549 --> 00:27:55.710
somehow we turned it into hyper fast factory of content.
535
00:27:55.750 --> 00:28:00.130
That's not going to be helpful to anyone. So restoring
536
00:28:00.210 --> 00:28:04.440
back judgment, you can get a lot of value out
537
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:09.160
of your existing staff because now they're like superheroes. Now
538
00:28:09.220 --> 00:28:13.039
they can truly preside over a project, not just barely
539
00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:16.210
get the PowerPoint done in time for your meeting. Because
540
00:28:16.230 --> 00:28:19.099
they have three other PowerPoints to do. So the trick
541
00:28:19.170 --> 00:28:22.200
is learning how to use it for your job and
542
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:25.819
not in a way that makes you feel vulnerable. And
543
00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:28.640
one last story on this is my aunt was very, very,
544
00:28:28.660 --> 00:28:32.309
she's a poet. She's a published poet. Very against AI.
545
00:28:32.869 --> 00:28:36.049
And she let me know all the ways that AI
546
00:28:36.069 --> 00:28:40.250
was bad. And so I got her, installed it, and
547
00:28:40.329 --> 00:28:44.680
we have found dozens of of poetry competitions that she
548
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.319
has submitted all her human poetry and now she has
549
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:50.680
an income stream, thanks AI, that had nothing to do
550
00:28:50.769 --> 00:28:54.069
with taking over poetry and it making it be, you know,
551
00:28:54.089 --> 00:28:57.490
a null human act. So learning to harness it in
552
00:28:57.529 --> 00:29:00.230
the way that can make you a superhero is the
553
00:29:00.269 --> 00:29:02.420
most powerful thing you can do. But I will remind
554
00:29:02.500 --> 00:29:04.740
everyone listening to this, it doesn't matter if it was
555
00:29:04.779 --> 00:29:08.700
Chad GPT, Perplexity, Claude, whoever, your name is on it.
556
00:29:10.099 --> 00:29:13.359
So now it's afforded you the time to slow down
557
00:29:13.420 --> 00:29:16.140
and get it right. If you're only brave enough to
558
00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:19.180
master it like you did with Excel and Word and
559
00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.059
Outlook and all the things that the rest of us
560
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:26.220
had to do, you will be extremely valuable and potent
561
00:29:26.299 --> 00:29:28.809
within your organization about being able to execute swiftly.
562
00:29:29.710 --> 00:29:30.450
Beautifully said.
563
00:29:30.470 --> 00:29:33.849
You know, way back in 2020 during the pandemic, Paul,
564
00:29:33.950 --> 00:29:37.029
I had on Christian Krom on my show and his
565
00:29:37.069 --> 00:29:40.509
book is called Humanification. And essentially it he was putting
566
00:29:40.569 --> 00:29:43.109
forth is that we, and just like we've been saying
567
00:29:43.190 --> 00:29:45.809
for the last couple years now, that, you know, AI
568
00:29:45.890 --> 00:29:50.230
is what allows humans to extend their capacity, their capabilities
569
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:52.660
not be replaced by that. And so when you do
570
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.299
it well, like just what you just explained to us,
571
00:29:55.740 --> 00:29:59.200
and really partner with it, you really can extend yourself
572
00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:01.789
like your aunt did Absolutely.
573
00:30:02.869 --> 00:30:03.089
Okay.
574
00:30:03.109 --> 00:30:06.650
You mentioned a very, very interesting word earlier that we
575
00:30:06.690 --> 00:30:08.910
have to go down this path and it was vulnerability.
576
00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:13.500
And I appreciate that, especially, you know, it's becoming more
577
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:16.779
and more a common, you know, word to gather around
578
00:30:16.859 --> 00:30:21.240
in leadership, in relationships, in culture, for sure. But what's,
579
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:23.339
and of course you do talk about it as a
580
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.880
working strength, but I wanted to distinguish between the grounded
581
00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:31.180
honesty and emotional overexposure, as you talk about it in
582
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:34.319
the book, and using this in an appropriate way to
583
00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:38.400
reduce guessing, defensiveness, rework, which you kind of alluded to earlier.
584
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.880
Yeah, I think there's a lot of value in that.
585
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:46.640
And let me give you the why of the value
586
00:30:46.660 --> 00:30:51.589
before I give you the how on the execution. Tenure
587
00:30:51.619 --> 00:30:54.950
in the country and all around the world at companies
588
00:30:55.029 --> 00:30:58.869
is dropping rapidly. It like peaked in 91 at 5.1 years.
589
00:30:59.509 --> 00:31:02.930
You're working with a kaleidoscope of musical chairs of people
590
00:31:02.990 --> 00:31:07.119
coming in and out faster than ever, which means all
591
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.059
that tribal knowledge is going. A lot of history is gone.
592
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:15.400
And in the pressure to do more with less, it's
593
00:31:15.549 --> 00:31:19.410
real easy to start bumping against the other people. And
594
00:31:19.470 --> 00:31:22.720
the way that you can recognize that this is going
595
00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:25.519
to be a burden and an opportunity for you is
596
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.460
that you're going to have to, like, intentionally build relationships
597
00:31:29.500 --> 00:31:32.200
with those people that you work with. And it starts
598
00:31:32.319 --> 00:31:37.400
by recognizing facts from emotions, to your point. So some
599
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.049
things happen. And Crucial Conversations is a great book that
600
00:31:41.089 --> 00:31:45.289
talks about this, right? Yeah. You observe some facts that happen.
601
00:31:45.869 --> 00:31:48.490
You tell yourself a story about those facts, and then
602
00:31:48.509 --> 00:31:53.009
you select an emotion to have against your story. If
603
00:31:53.049 --> 00:31:55.730
you can short circuit that and just stick with the facts,
604
00:31:56.970 --> 00:31:58.910
your life will be a lot easier because you don't
605
00:31:58.950 --> 00:32:00.579
have to go dig somebody out of a hole. My
606
00:32:00.619 --> 00:32:03.940
favorite thing of asking somebody what's going on is what's up?
607
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.450
I noticed this. I noticed that something's weird. What's up?
608
00:32:11.170 --> 00:32:13.069
I don't tell them my conclusion because that's going to
609
00:32:13.109 --> 00:32:15.150
mean that they're going to have to defend themselves from that.
610
00:32:15.589 --> 00:32:20.309
So that vulnerability is, you know, in asking what happened,
611
00:32:20.329 --> 00:32:26.450
the situation, but sometimes the vulnerability is saying, I don't know. Yep.
612
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:28.539
Can I have some help?
613
00:32:28.970 --> 00:32:29.990
Yeah. Powerful words.
614
00:32:30.619 --> 00:32:32.980
My business partner and I, we, we, we have a lot.
615
00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:34.740
He's like, Hey, can I just be raw? And I'm like,
616
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:36.940
let's do it. Let's go. And like nothing that gets
617
00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:40.740
said there, gets turned into anything else because we are
618
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:43.759
deciding to have a vulnerable moment. We've decided not to
619
00:32:43.779 --> 00:32:46.480
punish each other for whatever comes out of that. But
620
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:50.859
some of our best conversations happen that way. Best conversations
621
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:53.500
when you can actually get through the problem. And I
622
00:32:53.539 --> 00:32:58.039
mentioned earlier about your clients. Sometimes your clients are acting
623
00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:01.500
irregular and some, the story changed and you're like, what's
624
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:05.339
going on here? You're like, it's hard to like tell
625
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:09.579
somebody be vulnerable with me, but you could express, Hey,
626
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:14.119
something seems wrong here. Is there something going on? How
627
00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:17.500
can I help this? And like just kind of an
628
00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:20.119
administrative timeout. Cause we get so wrapped into what we're
629
00:33:20.140 --> 00:33:22.380
supposed to be talking about. Let's just take a pause
630
00:33:22.420 --> 00:33:25.500
real quick. Are you good? Do you need to talk?
631
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:26.440
What's going on?
632
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:27.039
Yeah.
633
00:33:27.970 --> 00:33:32.710
That yields sometimes the best relationships over time than talking
634
00:33:32.730 --> 00:33:35.420
about what the project was because sometimes it's just never
635
00:33:35.460 --> 00:33:37.619
about the project. It's something else that's going on in
636
00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:39.440
the background. 100%.
637
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.000
Back to what we said at the beginning of the show,
638
00:33:42.339 --> 00:33:43.740
the client is, at the end of the day, a
639
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:44.480
human being.
640
00:33:44.900 --> 00:33:45.119
They are.
641
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.269
All right, let's grab our next break. I'm your host,
642
00:33:48.309 --> 00:33:50.950
your Elise Cortez. We are on the air with Paul Drew.
643
00:33:50.970 --> 00:33:54.329
He's a technology executive, program leader, and a seven-time entrepreneur
644
00:33:54.630 --> 00:33:58.130
whose career has centered on business process improvement, scaling teams,
645
00:33:58.190 --> 00:34:01.650
and delivering large infrastructure programs. He leads Inertia Labs, where
646
00:34:01.710 --> 00:34:05.599
he applies an operator's discipline to complex infrastructure and business challenges.
647
00:34:06.170 --> 00:34:08.739
We've been talking about more of the myths in this
648
00:34:08.780 --> 00:34:10.579
last segment. After the break, we're going to get him
649
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:12.159
to talk about scaling teams.
650
00:34:12.500 --> 00:34:28.789
We'll be right back. Dr.
651
00:34:28.849 --> 00:34:32.630
Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose,
652
00:34:32.860 --> 00:34:36.659
an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for
653
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:41.260
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused
654
00:34:41.300 --> 00:34:45.420
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.
655
00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:47.960
To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to
656
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:52.710
your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about
657
00:34:52.769 --> 00:35:01.019
how to get your employees working on purpose. This is
658
00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:04.369
Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our
659
00:35:04.409 --> 00:35:07.510
program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send
660
00:35:07.550 --> 00:35:13.880
an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to
661
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:15.059
Working on Purpose.
662
00:35:20.340 --> 00:35:22.030
Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working
663
00:35:22.070 --> 00:35:23.610
on Purpose. I am your host, Dr.
664
00:35:23.630 --> 00:35:24.309
Elise Cortez.
665
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:26.719
As you know by now, this program is dedicated to
666
00:35:26.780 --> 00:35:29.179
empowering you and inspiring you along your journey to realize
667
00:35:29.239 --> 00:35:31.469
more of your potential as an individual and as a leader.
668
00:35:31.489 --> 00:35:32.750
If you want to learn more.
669
00:35:32.630 --> 00:35:35.269
About where you are on our Gusto Leadership Spectrum, go
670
00:35:35.309 --> 00:35:38.409
to LinkedIn, find me, Elise Cortez, go to the featured
671
00:35:38.469 --> 00:35:40.650
section in the middle there, and you will find the
672
00:35:40.730 --> 00:35:43.739
Gusto Leadership Spectrum assessment. It's free, and you will learn
673
00:35:43.780 --> 00:35:46.300
a lot about yourself, where you are, and what potential
674
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:48.780
is awaiting you along the journey. And while you're there,
675
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:50.369
if you haven't already, be sure to connect with me.
676
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.800
If you are just now tuning in, my guest is
677
00:35:52.860 --> 00:35:55.179
Paul Drew. He's the co-author of My Client is the
678
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.739
Devil and Other Myths Revisited, an updated field guide to leadership,
679
00:35:58.820 --> 00:36:03.059
client relationships, and professional effectiveness in the modern workplace. So
680
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:08.199
somebody who's actually started and grown seven businesses, it would
681
00:36:08.219 --> 00:36:10.070
be a disservice to our listeners and viewers for me
682
00:36:10.119 --> 00:36:15.050
not to ask you these questions, but scaling teams without confusion.
683
00:36:16.949 --> 00:36:19.269
thinking about how in the world can you do this
684
00:36:19.489 --> 00:36:23.050
to multiply your team without some of those major pitfalls
685
00:36:23.070 --> 00:36:24.789
that come along the way. What can we learn from you?
686
00:36:26.929 --> 00:36:28.590
I would say that not all seven of those companies
687
00:36:28.630 --> 00:36:30.869
have been super successful, but I would say that I
688
00:36:30.929 --> 00:36:34.610
learned a lot throughout each one of them and their journeys.
689
00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:37.190
But I have done quite a bit of scaling of companies.
690
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.980
And I would say that first, when you start a
691
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.820
little team, it's great. Everybody knows everybody. You can cast
692
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:45.880
a vision really easily. Everybody's in. But every person you
693
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:50.619
add to that. starts to dynamically change the orientation. Every
694
00:36:50.659 --> 00:36:53.260
person now has a relationship with every other person, and
695
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:57.059
every time you add, that creates all kinds of complexion issues.
696
00:36:57.079 --> 00:37:01.849
That tribal knowledge and that shared vision goes away real quick.
697
00:37:02.250 --> 00:37:04.269
And the thing is, it was never static in the
698
00:37:04.349 --> 00:37:10.829
first place. It's an evolving shared vision that grows over
699
00:37:10.889 --> 00:37:15.210
time with everyone. And so you have to be really
700
00:37:15.289 --> 00:37:19.920
diligent about Spending the time to document where it is
701
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:24.019
and continue to share that vision with people and update
702
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:27.699
it as appropriate. You have to have... One of the
703
00:37:27.739 --> 00:37:30.690
tricks I learned early, my first company scaled where I
704
00:37:30.730 --> 00:37:33.489
worked for 11 years. I scaled from... I was like
705
00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:37.349
employee 100 to 12,000. It went pretty gangbusters, went public
706
00:37:37.369 --> 00:37:39.570
on the New York Stock Exchange. And one of the
707
00:37:39.610 --> 00:37:42.199
things that I learned during that process is that we
708
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:45.739
started tracking decision logs. When we hit the major points
709
00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:49.280
in the company... Um, we got tired of revisiting cause
710
00:37:49.340 --> 00:37:51.360
new people come along. We're like, why'd you do this?
711
00:37:51.420 --> 00:37:55.030
So we spent so much time looking backwards and reinventing
712
00:37:55.070 --> 00:37:59.510
the wheel. instead of looking forward because we didn't document it,
713
00:37:59.619 --> 00:38:01.780
we didn't have the why. So it just was a
714
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:06.139
lot of organizational molasses that wasn't very productive at moving
715
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:11.510
things forward. So having systems and investing in internal application teams,
716
00:38:11.570 --> 00:38:15.409
internal development, whether it's how you onboard people, how you
717
00:38:15.449 --> 00:38:18.469
pay people, how you get feedback from your team, it's
718
00:38:18.510 --> 00:38:21.070
one of the most overlooked things because it's not connected
719
00:38:21.090 --> 00:38:23.889
to revenue and it will make or break your company's
720
00:38:23.929 --> 00:38:28.219
ability to scale 100%. It also makes it much more
721
00:38:28.380 --> 00:38:31.019
or less likely to be an acquisition target, depending on
722
00:38:31.059 --> 00:38:33.739
how clean and organized your back office is, too. So
723
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:35.219
those are the things that I would say that get
724
00:38:35.420 --> 00:38:39.000
very overlooked. That is your unique opportunity. So if you
725
00:38:39.019 --> 00:38:43.409
can keep and update a shared vision, if you can make...
726
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:46.449
logs and records of your decisions along the way, and
727
00:38:46.969 --> 00:38:49.179
then you keep moving it forward, I think you'll find
728
00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.469
much higher chance of success. But again, it has all
729
00:38:52.489 --> 00:38:55.130
the other myths have to continually be in balance and
730
00:38:55.409 --> 00:38:58.130
understanding where your new people are coming in and bringing
731
00:38:58.170 --> 00:38:58.829
them this too.
732
00:39:01.030 --> 00:39:03.769
Well, you mentioned this earlier that each time you add
733
00:39:03.809 --> 00:39:05.750
a new person to the team, now you're adding another
734
00:39:05.829 --> 00:39:09.829
element of difference. And this, of course, is really near
735
00:39:09.849 --> 00:39:12.190
and dear to our heart as well. So Speak to
736
00:39:12.269 --> 00:39:16.340
us a little bit about how active listening, assertiveness, personality, awareness, culture,
737
00:39:16.780 --> 00:39:20.159
curiosity can create, which is what I love, what you
738
00:39:20.179 --> 00:39:23.860
call in your book, relationship capital, especially across remote teams.
739
00:39:25.530 --> 00:39:33.630
Yeah. um so trust begins with respectful curiosity and people
740
00:39:33.670 --> 00:39:38.590
have different views program failures and scaling failures often begin
741
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:41.780
with relationships at the end of the day what happens
742
00:39:41.860 --> 00:39:44.340
is particularly the more layers in an organization you get
743
00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:47.449
you get a lot of information asymmetry So the people
744
00:39:47.510 --> 00:39:50.349
on the ground are now disconnected from the leadership and
745
00:39:50.389 --> 00:39:54.170
leadership is trying to make some very important, likely expensive
746
00:39:54.230 --> 00:39:57.730
decisions and they're not getting the feedback they want because
747
00:39:57.789 --> 00:40:00.869
it's not consistently being brought up to them. And I
748
00:40:00.909 --> 00:40:04.849
like to coach my team. One outbound update stops 10 questions.
749
00:40:05.610 --> 00:40:08.769
So making sure that communications are flowing both ways is
750
00:40:08.989 --> 00:40:14.789
really helpful. And, uh, I think that does that answer
751
00:40:14.809 --> 00:40:15.530
the question? I'm sorry.
752
00:40:15.889 --> 00:40:16.250
It does.
753
00:40:16.659 --> 00:40:19.340
No, no, you're multitasking. And I really appreciate that. That's
754
00:40:19.460 --> 00:40:23.019
a true, true, you know, Paul drew fashion.
755
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:24.500
Okay.
756
00:40:24.579 --> 00:40:26.199
So I wanted to have just a little bit deeper though,
757
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.260
because when you, when you, you brought this out in
758
00:40:28.300 --> 00:40:31.829
your book, those personality differences that could the cultural curiosity,
759
00:40:32.289 --> 00:40:35.059
especially when you're working across time zones, you know, this is,
760
00:40:35.110 --> 00:40:37.889
this becomes really, really intense. So if you could just
761
00:40:37.929 --> 00:40:39.809
speak to a little bit about how over the years,
762
00:40:40.300 --> 00:40:43.000
Have you done training? Do you have conversations around this?
763
00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:46.179
Because people aren't necessarily aware, oh, that's my personality. Oh,
764
00:40:46.219 --> 00:40:47.800
this is my preferred way of doing things. Oh, it
765
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:50.940
sounds chafing to somebody else. How have you situated that
766
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:51.960
over the years in your teams?
767
00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:56.280
So I've been fortunate enough to do business across 26 countries.
768
00:40:56.409 --> 00:40:59.789
That includes Africa, Middle East, Asia, all throughout Europe and
769
00:40:59.969 --> 00:41:02.730
South America. You learn a lot about people when you're
770
00:41:02.750 --> 00:41:05.590
face to face with them, particularly having meals and spending
771
00:41:05.630 --> 00:41:07.920
any time with them. So I started picking up a
772
00:41:07.969 --> 00:41:10.769
lot of different things over time about how to be
773
00:41:10.809 --> 00:41:13.110
more culturally aware. And then I did some intentional reading
774
00:41:13.190 --> 00:41:17.070
on it. And there's part of, as you read the book,
775
00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:19.690
is we're trying to help other people understand that people
776
00:41:19.750 --> 00:41:23.969
bring different things to conversations. And as you can understand that,
777
00:41:24.030 --> 00:41:26.170
you can have a much higher chance of being able
778
00:41:26.190 --> 00:41:29.690
to be successful in developing a relationship with them. Some
779
00:41:29.769 --> 00:41:31.469
countries are more laid back and they want to get
780
00:41:31.510 --> 00:41:33.510
to know you first. Some of them are all business.
781
00:41:34.070 --> 00:41:35.760
That just really depends on who you know.
782
00:41:37.929 --> 00:41:40.170
I want to celebrate that you have done business and
783
00:41:40.230 --> 00:41:42.380
worked across 26 different countries.
784
00:41:42.409 --> 00:41:43.949
That is phenomenal.
785
00:41:44.380 --> 00:41:49.699
That is incredible experience. I mean, just really incredible. Like
786
00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:52.500
you can't buy that. You can't learn that in school.
787
00:41:52.579 --> 00:41:53.320
That's incredible.
788
00:41:53.880 --> 00:41:56.239
I really think all of us are better. As you know,
789
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:57.800
I lived in Spain and Brazil in my mid-20s, went
790
00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:00.519
all over Western Europe, South America. We are so much
791
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:03.110
better when we have those kinds of experience. They expand us.
792
00:42:03.929 --> 00:42:07.429
Absolutely. As part of that, I've taken my kids with
793
00:42:07.489 --> 00:42:12.130
me to the Middle East, to APAC, to Europe, and
794
00:42:12.610 --> 00:42:14.989
I'm pretty proud of my kids. They're both in college now,
795
00:42:15.130 --> 00:42:17.840
highly successful, and I just can't help but feel that
796
00:42:17.860 --> 00:42:20.059
international exposure has really been beneficial to them.
797
00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:22.179
I've seen some of your posts on them. You are
798
00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:27.139
definitely a proud dad. Okay, so let's move on to
799
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.579
this next group here. So from unfairness and helplessness to agency,
800
00:42:30.619 --> 00:42:33.940
these final myths here. The They tell us about how
801
00:42:33.980 --> 00:42:37.219
life should be fair. People can't change. Individual action does
802
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.889
not matter. So then if we turn that over, if
803
00:42:40.929 --> 00:42:44.210
we look at resilience and experimentation and small, consistent actions,
804
00:42:44.849 --> 00:42:48.610
that can really reshape situations and even stubborn people along
805
00:42:48.630 --> 00:42:50.070
the way, if you could speak to those a bit.
806
00:42:51.190 --> 00:42:54.010
It is tricky. We got a lot of feedback that
807
00:42:54.150 --> 00:42:58.630
hopelessness is not too different from helplessness, but they are different. And,
808
00:42:58.869 --> 00:43:00.889
you know, a lot of times some of those come
809
00:43:01.110 --> 00:43:04.760
in the feeling that, you know, things won't change. And
810
00:43:06.860 --> 00:43:09.139
the biggest thing I think to learn is that imperfect
811
00:43:09.619 --> 00:43:15.119
systems still permit leadership to change. to help or to
812
00:43:15.179 --> 00:43:18.980
hurt the situation, depending on how heavy the hand of
813
00:43:19.019 --> 00:43:22.159
the rule is. Because some people may not feel empowered,
814
00:43:22.179 --> 00:43:24.079
and maybe the manager doesn't want them to feel empowered.
815
00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:26.360
But as a manager, you want to make them feel
816
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:29.960
empowered and that they do make a difference. And so
817
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:32.530
part of that, particularly if you have employees that are
818
00:43:32.550 --> 00:43:36.090
maybe resistant to ideas that you're bringing to the table,
819
00:43:36.570 --> 00:43:38.710
is spending a lot of time to understand the why
820
00:43:38.769 --> 00:43:42.469
behind the resistance. And I talked earlier about the asymmetry
821
00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:45.449
between what the executives think and what the employees know.
822
00:43:46.230 --> 00:43:48.789
As a consultant, I've been hired many, many times or
823
00:43:48.809 --> 00:43:54.530
my firms have to go figure out a problem. 95%
824
00:43:54.530 --> 00:43:57.179
of the time, we just go ask the employees. We
825
00:43:57.219 --> 00:44:00.059
package it back up as a unique insight and the
826
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:03.480
executives are happy. And we may bring our own 5%
827
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:05.800
of that. And I'm probably overdramatic on this, but at
828
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.739
the end of the day, the employees know what's going on.
829
00:44:09.260 --> 00:44:12.039
It's just that there's that power imbalance. The power myth
830
00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:14.440
is reeling its head there because I can't be vulnerable
831
00:44:14.860 --> 00:44:17.300
because my job is on the line. And so you
832
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:21.190
get this real mismatch between reality on the ground and
833
00:44:21.510 --> 00:44:26.130
and what the executives think. And so promoting agency means
834
00:44:26.250 --> 00:44:29.199
running lots of small experiments that help people get the
835
00:44:29.239 --> 00:44:31.840
feeling they're not going to be squished on for having opinions.
836
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:35.260
It lets them have some things that it's okay to
837
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:39.550
fail on and build that resilience up, but it has
838
00:44:39.590 --> 00:44:42.929
to be an actual effort to get your team to
839
00:44:43.909 --> 00:44:47.329
act on their own. One of the chapters we talk
840
00:44:47.389 --> 00:44:50.760
about how there's a, and it's actually written after me,
841
00:44:50.780 --> 00:44:52.880
I have a lot of heroic tendencies. I want to
842
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:54.659
jump in and save the day. I know how to
843
00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:59.519
do it. And I noticed that People stopped bringing their
844
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:01.659
own solutions. They would just show up on the call
845
00:45:01.699 --> 00:45:03.239
and expect me to solve it. And I would get
846
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:06.510
so frustrated. Why do I have to do everything? And
847
00:45:06.550 --> 00:45:08.329
it's because I didn't leave the door open for them
848
00:45:08.369 --> 00:45:14.949
to have opinions. So I picked up this phrase. What's
849
00:45:14.989 --> 00:45:19.030
your idea? What's your suggestion? And I try to start
850
00:45:19.110 --> 00:45:22.530
every conversation with that to get them going. And so
851
00:45:22.630 --> 00:45:25.489
now they're bringing solutions, and I just get to approve
852
00:45:26.070 --> 00:45:29.349
or redirect or tweak and tune, and I don't have
853
00:45:29.369 --> 00:45:31.050
to carry the load. And I can't tell you how
854
00:45:31.130 --> 00:45:33.929
liberating that is as a leader to see the entire
855
00:45:34.010 --> 00:45:37.170
company hum without me and to realize in the past,
856
00:45:37.750 --> 00:45:39.780
it was me. I was the problem.
857
00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:43.099
I want to so celebrate that, Paul.
858
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:45.900
I mean, this thing called leadership and business is so
859
00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.119
human at the end of the day, and I so
860
00:45:48.139 --> 00:45:51.320
appreciate that. And it's hard to learn these things about ourselves.
861
00:45:51.460 --> 00:45:52.719
So Kudos.
862
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:55.000
Well, we've come to the end of the show already.
863
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.139
It goes by so very fast. So let's finish like this. So,
864
00:45:58.260 --> 00:46:01.079
you know, we'll end by bringing this directly into the
865
00:46:01.099 --> 00:46:03.019
heart of the show. This is called working on purpose.
866
00:46:03.659 --> 00:46:05.860
So what does it mean for you personally to work
867
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:09.210
on purpose? And what do you believe becomes possible for
868
00:46:09.250 --> 00:46:12.269
a human being and organization and openly society when we
869
00:46:12.309 --> 00:46:14.690
learn to scale business that matters to us and address
870
00:46:14.730 --> 00:46:15.510
these 15 myths?
871
00:46:17.150 --> 00:46:19.590
Ooh, that's a lot of questions in one question, but
872
00:46:19.610 --> 00:46:23.780
I'm going to start with purposes. Um, People saw potential
873
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:25.469
in me when I was younger before I saw it
874
00:46:25.489 --> 00:46:29.369
in myself. And they were pretty creative about getting me
875
00:46:29.389 --> 00:46:34.250
to try and flex and grow into that. And I've heard,
876
00:46:34.309 --> 00:46:37.289
you know, are leaders made or are they born? You know,
877
00:46:37.329 --> 00:46:41.719
I think everyone is born. You may have some exposure
878
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:43.760
that makes it more natural, but I think everyone at
879
00:46:43.780 --> 00:46:46.260
the end of the day learns a set of skills.
880
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:51.940
And that's what the takeaway I hope is is, Great leadership, mentorship, parenting,
881
00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:53.940
all of these are sets of skills that can be
882
00:46:54.019 --> 00:46:56.349
acquired by anyone with a true desire to do it.
883
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:00.480
And when you look at how you scale companies and
884
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:04.829
how do you bypass the myths, it comes from that
885
00:47:05.849 --> 00:47:09.389
desire to work on yourself, the desire to improve, the
886
00:47:09.409 --> 00:47:12.570
realization that you don't have all the answers, and that
887
00:47:12.630 --> 00:47:15.150
some of the things that you've been telling yourself may
888
00:47:15.210 --> 00:47:18.719
not be true. And if they're not true, wow, that's
889
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:23.070
pretty exciting, the possibility. Because some of these myths have
890
00:47:23.110 --> 00:47:25.309
been holding people back for so long, they don't even
891
00:47:25.429 --> 00:47:27.989
recognize that they're a myth or that they've been saying
892
00:47:28.030 --> 00:47:31.230
it to themselves. So that's how you can break free
893
00:47:31.269 --> 00:47:35.360
of that and really grow as a team is when
894
00:47:35.489 --> 00:47:38.880
everybody has that ability to be vulnerable, that has the
895
00:47:38.940 --> 00:47:44.739
empowerment and has the opportunity to grow. And they want to.
896
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:50.000
You are singing some of my favorite phrases. Thank you, Paul.
897
00:47:50.119 --> 00:47:52.440
And thank you for writing the book, Being You, coming
898
00:47:52.480 --> 00:47:55.199
on and sharing your years of expertise. It has been
899
00:47:55.219 --> 00:47:57.179
a delight. I've gotten to know you on another level
900
00:47:57.199 --> 00:47:59.019
here in this conversation. So thank you for joining me
901
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:00.000
on Working on Purpose.
902
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.199
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.
903
00:48:02.659 --> 00:48:03.289
So welcome.
904
00:48:03.889 --> 00:48:06.150
Listeners and viewers, you are going to want to learn
905
00:48:06.170 --> 00:48:08.429
more about Paul Drew, the work he and his team
906
00:48:08.449 --> 00:48:11.590
do at Inertia Labs, and his new book, My Client
907
00:48:11.630 --> 00:48:17.789
is the Devil. You can start by visiting the website MyClientIsTheDevil.com.
908
00:48:17.809 --> 00:48:21.269
It's the name of the book, MyClientIsTheDevil.com. You can also
909
00:48:21.329 --> 00:48:27.210
find him on LinkedIn. You'll find him through Paul M.
910
00:48:27.909 --> 00:48:28.070
Drew.
911
00:48:28.110 --> 00:48:29.699
There are many other Paul Drews, so make sure you
912
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.519
get the middle initial in there as well. Last week,
913
00:48:32.539 --> 00:48:34.119
if you missed the live show, you can always catch
914
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:37.099
it via recorded podcast, wherever you find them. We were
915
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.480
on air with Daniel Como. He's the current chief of
916
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:41.880
police for the city of Dallas. He brings more than
917
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:45.000
30 years of law enforcement experience. We talked about how
918
00:48:45.500 --> 00:48:47.920
what he learned all the years he was playing baseball
919
00:48:47.940 --> 00:48:51.050
growing up has taught him about leadership and culture as
920
00:48:51.090 --> 00:48:53.769
an adult. It was really a fascinating conversation, really beautiful
921
00:48:53.809 --> 00:48:56.250
what he learned along the way. Next week, we'll be
922
00:48:56.349 --> 00:48:59.769
on air with Ross Blankenship talking about his book, Everyday Leadership,
923
00:48:59.889 --> 00:49:01.849
a guide for developing your mindset as a leader.
924
00:49:02.309 --> 00:49:02.710
See you then.
925
00:49:02.769 --> 00:49:06.150
Let's continue learning how to help more people flourish, elevate
926
00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:09.090
your operating system as a leader, and create destination workplaces
927
00:49:09.110 --> 00:49:12.079
where legendary business takes place. Let's work on purpose.
928
00:49:15.230 --> 00:49:17.849
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
929
00:49:17.889 --> 00:49:21.539
tune into Working on Purpose, featuring your host, Dr. Elise Cortez,
930
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:25.460
each week on W4CY. Together, we'll create a world where
931
00:49:25.519 --> 00:49:30.400
business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires in passion performance, and employees
932
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:32.980
are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose
933
00:49:33.019 --> 00:49:33.579
they crave.
934
00:49:34.070 --> 00:49:34.619
See you there.
935
00:49:34.929 --> 00:49:36.289
Let's work on purpose.