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Welcome to Unlocking Human Potential.
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With me, Andy Hosgood, a show dedicated to exploring what it really takes psychologically, behaviourally and practically to help humans thrive through conversations with leaders, founders, coaches, behavioural experts and people shaping how humans perform and grow.
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Is this for you?
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But if you're a leader, a founder, a business owner or an ambitious professional who wants to do more than just perform, they want to grow, inspire, and bring the best out in themselves and their people, then keep listening because the mission is simple to explore how individuals and teams unlock potential in themselves, in others, and the organizations they shape.
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Every episode is a deep but relaxed conversation built around three core questions.
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How do you optimise yourself?
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How do you unlock potential in others?
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And the best advice for you, the listener.
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Now over to the episode.
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Really hope you find it helpful and insightful.
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Just before we introduce our next guest, please make sure you press the follow button to keep updated with the latest episodes.
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Additionally, special thanks to 246 Photography and PixelMate Brands for making this podcast a reality.
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Now over to the episode.
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Matty, thank you for joining me.
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Thanks for having me on board, Andy.
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All the way from Melbourne, which I believe is the original capital of Australia.
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Well, some may have us believe so, but um it's uh it's a point of conjecture.
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So for for our listeners, um Mike Lloyd is a former professional cyclist whose career reached the highest level of world sport, an Olympian, Australian national road champion, and winner of both the stage of the King of the Mountains classification of the Giro d'Italia.
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He experienced the extraordinary heights that few athletes ever reach.
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But his most significant education came after sport.
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In 2014, Matthew suffered a catastrophic hit-and-run accident in the United States that left him with a traumatic brain injury and multiple life-threatening injuries.
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What followed was a decade-long battle with addiction, identity loss, and the painstaking process of rebuilding a life from the ground up.
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My welcome to unlocking human potential.
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I we connected because I did a podcast with Susie Kindred.
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We put it on Instagram.
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Um, you'd commented on the post, and for confession of most people, I'm a bit of an Instagram stalker.
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When people comment, I'm going, right, who's this guy?
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Um, so I looked at your profile, I looked at things you'd done, and I reached straight out saying I'd love to have a conversation.
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And I'll be honest, from I didn't know where the conversation was going to go really go when we first met.
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It really impacted me.
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In fact, I think I've been telling your story, knowing that we we had this book, Jen.
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I think I've been telling your story for the last two weeks since we got it in.
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Um, because I think there's gonna be a lot of stuff that listeners can take away from uh your story, your journey, and obviously a lot of the lessons that you've learned along the way.
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So I really appreciate you uh taking the time to do this.
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Yeah, thanks so much, Andy.
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Um it's it's one of those things with you know, whether it be Instagram or generally internet these days, if we're to investigate the things that just take our interest, um often enough through that we can find um the things that that really draw us in.
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Um so uh whether it's happenstance or just uh the way things work, um, I'm really fortunate to to have got in contact with you and um yeah, really looking forward to to our discussion.
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Brilliant.
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So one of the things that kind of underpins the podcast, and I would probably say the majority of guests, and certainly my kind of outlook in life is curiosity.
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So we always ask guests what is it, what's something that you're curious about right now.
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Yeah, I suppose one of the things um that I'm continually drawn to or provides the most curiosity for me is people's capacity um to recognize their own potential, which sounds quite broad and you know, um I suppose open-ended, but that's the beauty of it, because we're in a time particularly right now where we don't actually know where the global trajectory is going.
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Um, but for me that draws into um our own personal potentials.
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Um and if we're to really lock in and focus on those optimistically, of course, we'll be heading in the right trajectory um in the in the macro sense.
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So uh yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, but um yeah, I suppose draws a bit of interest for me.
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So it's uh it's pretty cool.
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I think it's really cool.
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It's my I I love the topic, so you know you're in you're in good company with that.
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So for our first time listeners, and just might just to set the scene of what we're gonna go through, you know, we kind of bring this into three sections.
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This podcast, it's around unlocking ourselves, and you know, how do we make ourselves as optimal as we can, depending on where you want to take that?
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You know, how do we unlock others and get the best out of others and best best potential?
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And then I think it's always important that when people have given up you know, an hour of their time to listen to us, that we kind of try and bring it together and you know the so what piece, what can people then do with the with parts of the conversation and the insights that we've had during this?
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Um so we'll do it that and we'll bring it all together at the end with some advice.
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Does that sound okay for you?
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Sounds awesome.
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So when we talk around kind of unlocking our own potential, you know, even in your bio and the bit that I got, you know, I see I'll certainly allow you to go where you go with this.
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I certainly kind of see three avenues that where we could touch on if you feel comfortable, is obviously to achieve what you achieved as an athlete is I think what most people would dream of, if that's fair to say, you know, and getting to the heights that you got to is a phenomenal achievement.
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I think to manage to deal with the catastrophe that happened to you in 2014, you know, and how you navigated that journey and that part of your or that chapter of your life, if you feel comfortable exploring that, that would be, you know, and how you how you kind of re found your potential or you know, dubbed it, whatever, wherever that goes.
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And then obviously what you're doing now in your career and you know, helping supporting others, and you kind of retrained and stuff.
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Um so I kind of leave it to you where you want to start.
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If you want to start from the beginning and you know, and go that way, or if you want to dip in and out, then feel free to take it where you go.
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Yeah, I suppose um, yeah, just looking back um at uh where it all started for for me um during my my career, I find it most interesting because I came from the sort of um the mindset that you know the harder I was to push um the things would eventually get better.
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Um and people could put that down to an athletic mindset or you know, even a business type mindset.
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Um but now I think more about reducing the distance between you know what you know about yourself and more of what you're consistently able to do.
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So in the career space, I wasn't able to differentiate um between those two things.
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So the outcome was often enough what I really, really wanted, and whether that provided the inner satisfaction or not.
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I didn't know.
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Um throughout the the time piece, if we're to draw it out over the the long term, I was able to um recognise and understand um those bits and pieces that were taking place throughout my career, but also in the following years to come.
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Um that uh go in and thrash yourself sort of set up um wasn't really a great example to set for myself or for others.
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Um because it just ended up being a full-on catastrophe.
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Um and yeah, interestingly enough, you know, if I'm to look at it now, it's it's a clear differentiation between you know an outcome-based mindset um versus a process-driven, purpose-oriented mindset, um, which fortunately I'm now able to take full advantage of, well, optimistically so.
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But um, yeah, I suppose it all comes through about timing, um, patience.
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Can can you just share?
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So, you know, I listen there's a kind of very eat and all over from kind of sport leadership um coaching backgrounds.
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Can you just expand on the difference between the outcome and that process-based mindset just for those people that maybe are unfamiliar?
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Yeah, definitely.
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Um, so say, for example, you've got um a bunch of kids and they're playing basketball.
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Um, and they love what they're doing, they're so associated with all the interaction and the games, um, and the joy that they're receiving from their own performance and looking forward to the victory that they'll get, um, or how many points they'll be able to shoot in the game.
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Um, and all of that energy is directed into you know the outcome itself.
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Um whereas if we're to look at what purpose that's serving, it's more of an internal sensation that people can get.
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So you put the same kids on the court and you think about you know, what does that connection mean to your friends?
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Does it make you know Jimmy and Jessica feel good that you've rocked up to training today?
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You know, will it make them want to come back the next time?
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So the difference in the purpose of what you're doing versus the the outcomes um is really significant.
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Um because when it gets to the you know, the big time, um often enough with huge victories like Olympics, um, you know, Tour de France, the duo at Italia, etc.
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You know, if your purpose and your identity is separate from just what you do, um it really turns into a I suppose a deeper connection um with yourself and often enough with the environment around you as opposed to you know I've got the gold medal or the trophy um and all the aesthetic things that come with that.
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Um so yeah, it's it's quite challenging to to put that across to you know really young people because they they see the the flashing lights and um the things that are are really cool.
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Um but it avoids the process and the um the integral steps that are required to get to that point and the satisfaction overall that one can get from acknowledging and sticking to you know the diligence of of what you're gonna reward yourself in the end.
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Um so just kind of playing that back a little.
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So is there a because we we've had quite a few guests that have have said something very similar, where when you're very outcome focused, then your outcome might be to be a world champion, you know, in second win the Tour de France, winning a gold medal, but very limited people will ever do that.
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So actually, then if you're very outcome, this is my assumption of what you're saying.
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So please correct me if if if there's a you know, and you you we we had um we had an ex MMA fighter on now into a coach and leadership, and one of the things he was saying, and we've had a few UFC fighters have come on and said, look, they wanted to be champion, that was their outcome, but they didn't achieve it, so the part of them was you know dissatisfied with who they were as a person with their career and everything else.
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Whereas actually, when we look at them from an outsider, they've achieved some phenomenal things, but that only in hindsight have they gone back and went what we forget or failed to do is just enjoy the process of getting there.
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Enjoy the actually, we love this.
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The reason why we got into this is because we enjoy combat sports, we enjoy the competitive edge, we enjoy getting in there and pushing ourselves and challenging ourselves, and part of that process is doing that every single day.
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Is that what we're if I have I understood that correctly?
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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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Um it's about the connectedness that you feel um within yourself, um and uh I suppose a certain amount of um you know self-gratitude that you you receive um through accomplishing um smaller, medium, large size things.
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Um so yeah, definitely Ferraris don't you know don't turn around and give you a hug after you've done really well.
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Um it's uh it's just one of those things, I guess.
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But I think it's a really I think it's a really important topic because you know, I guess in the world of that I sit myself now as an executive coach, mainly working with founder-based business owners, you know, they set these big goals of what they want their business to do at the start, and then along the way they get these moments where when they're not achieved or what not where they are, where they want to be, that they do, you know, that becomes disheartened, becomes disillusioned, becomes putting themselves in, am I not good enough?
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Self-belief goes, all of those things that you know, where again, you know, if you were to maybe and when you play it back, saying if you were to start your business and you if if if you were to start your business today and you were to say you were going to be turning over this amount of money in this amount of time, would you be happy?
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Well, yeah, but I'd set my goal at this, okay.
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So it's so if you were to roll back, you know, what you've achieved is an amazing achievement.
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But because you're always, like you've said, looking at the outcome and the outcome focused, and they haven't achieved the outcome.
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Actually, when they're looking at it, they're looking through a very negative lens that actually makes them suboptimal, you know.
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Whereas, you know, if we can get in, that the whole point of we go into business is to enjoy the freedom of working for ourselves or the ability to make our own decisions or take things in the direction we want to do without being told, you know.
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So that is the the process, isn't it, that we're trying to kind of say.
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So there's there's so much similarities from what you're saying that I think also that we can take into a kind of into a business as well.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Um the uh I suppose the the major thing um with sports and um and I'm definitely gonna say with business is the the perception that we formulate from the outset um is often enough attached to um the objectives that you know we foresee or imagine.
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Um but that neglects um the the nerve the sort of work that's required to get there.
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Um and that work in itself, as you said, provides the inner sense of of satisfaction, um, the real reward.
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Um and that's the thing that um that we're able to to look back on and say, yeah, you know, that's that's where I was at that point in time, and that's what I achieved.
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Um and that's where the quality is.
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Um regardless of how you know how huge the the outcome was at all.
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And it was that is that a reflection in hindsight reflection of you as an athlete?
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Were you quite an outcome-focused person and not process driven or and what and if if when when was there a shift?
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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
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Um, I think from the very, very outset, um, I had uh this this set of objectives, uh two of which um formulated perfect for me.
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You know, winning the national championship was um a huge priority.
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Um and I say priority because it it really had nothing to do with all the other elements, for example, just making it to turn professional in itself, which is quite a you know a massive thing to do.
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But that was not in my vision.
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Um it was just the one day race in Australia to gain the victory, which would supersede everything.
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Um and secondary to that, when I eventually went into the world tour, um I think it would have been in the first couple of months.
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Um, I'd set this objective one day looking at other guys performing at the Tour of Italy, and I said, I'd really love to win the climber's jersey at that race.
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Probably because I was living in Italy at that point in time, it's a magical race in itself.
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Um that was on my mind, and I'd let the directors know, and they said, Okay, well, if you want to do that, then that's your race, and that's where it's going to be.
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Um, and interestingly enough, you know, a couple of years later, um, that was me on that spot.
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Um, and I think through our discussion the other day, I was telling you about how I'd formulated training plans on track lists to music to work out my cadence and the distance and the climbs and every microfactor imaginable just for a three-week period in May 2010.
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While neglecting life itself on the exterior, there was no existence, it was all about that race, and that's what took place.
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Um, which yeah, um, was purely outcome focused.
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Um and um yeah, I think um as I'd also mentioned upon the completion of that race, I sort of sat there and thought to myself, you know, is that is that it?
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Is that everything?
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And it just wasn't.
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So um it was a massive contrast to what I'd imagined or perceived it to be.
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Um I think that that really brought it home at that point in time.
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Is there a and I guess I think that from the conversations I've had, I think one I think you're not alone in that, isn't it?
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You you set your goal on this, and when you've achieved it, actually, that feeling isn't what what you assumed it would be, which is kind of the vibe I'm getting, which then kind of leaves you with a bit of a okay.
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I guess the question that and I'm gonna ask it because the listeners can't ask it for do you think there's a world where if you weren't so focused everything around your world for those three months that you would have you would have won that it's a challenging question, um and it really peers deep into um into the characteristics of um the attributes of of a certain person's um mental capabilities, um physiological side of things too.
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Um because often enough in sports we find ourselves you know in awe of these high performers who've got a certain amount of um you know possibility that's open to them purely because of their um physiological um advantages for their particular sports.
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Um and I think at the at the top level um there's a certain bracket of individuals who are capable of holding themselves um within that zone or framework.
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Um it's very challenging because to imagine, particularly for myself, um in a place where I could live a completely normal life or existence without that top-end performance.
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Yeah, I think it'll be really, really challenging.
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Okay.
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And and again, it was coming from a place of curiosity, is because the you know, obviously, you were able to I think the life lesson I'm taking from this, and all I'm hearing and and I'm interpreting is you know, you can spend your whole life just focusing on one thing to the sacrifice of every so you know you sacrifice everything else in your life to focus on a three-week waste to win um stage where you think okay, that's the goal, I've achieved that goal, but actually I also get the vibe, but for what?
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Because actually what I thought I'd get from that I didn't get, so I don't know if I've assumed that correctly, you know, and and so there's there's almost the question of okay, it's great that you've done it and you've you know you've got that title which no one will ever take away from you, but what did it actually bring better to your life?
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Yeah, I think um it's probably for me at least there was almost a flip side to to that coin as well, um which has always interested me um just as much so as the as the performance-oriented mindset too, and it's that during the time I was racing as a as a professional, I'd always been hyper aware of the world itself in um in the external.
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I wasn't engaging with it um probably as much as I would have normally, of course.
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But it was always taking away the attention from the I suppose the severity or the hard nature that the professional sport it was in itself.
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Um, could be said now as you know, my own justification for not continuing on a high level of performance or whatever.
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But I know for myself, um, and particularly those close to me, that I probably wasn't capable of performing at the level throughout my career purely because I didn't attach enough psychological um you know, people would call it determination into establishing a process um with you know enough you know rigidity or intensity as it was deserved.
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Um so it's it's it's it's it's a really dynamic interface to play with now.
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Um maybe a lot of that's you know, considering it's only natural to feel as if you sold yourself short uh after you've finished any career, I think.
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Yeah.
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But from the conversations I've certainly had it that that's certainly uh I think a lot of especially high performing athletes, you know, because the career is always short, isn't it?
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Relatively.
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Um we had a fellow Australian Matthew Innens on and he was saying that you know he played you know first class cricket for Australia but never managed to play for actual Australia just because of where he was and there were people better than him, and he saw that as a as a bit of a failure during his career, but you know, and now he's got into performance and he's working with he's working with athletes and helping them kind of realize that you know unfortunately not everybody is gonna always get the highs.
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Um and what do you do after that career, you know, because they are short.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.759
So I think a lot of athletes do seem to feel that, don't they?
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I've never been skilled enough to say I was a high level athlete of anything, so I can't I certainly can't embrace that feeling.
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Um but there's certainly for the conversations I've experienced, you know, that is quite common after that after um high-level athletic career.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Um it's quite a seldom occurrence that you know um you'll get really deep with someone who's been um performing at the at the highest level, um who can't think of moments or you know certain amounts of time in which they felt um a hundred percent um you know either engaged or you know fulfilled in what they did.
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There's always something else.
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Um and uh the interesting thing too is as you said, you know, if if it takes for someone to be at that level um never to represent the country, um that's gotta be a really, really, you know, challenging thing just to conceptualize, but you know, it doesn't dismiss the effort and the passion that's involved with it.
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Um yeah, and a lot of the time that sort of thing's forgotten, so yeah, it's uh it's an interesting one.
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Yeah, it definitely is.
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But after your career, there was a different chapter, wasn't there?
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It was.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:47.440
Shall we move on to 2014 then?
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:50.079
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:56.240
So you're living in Italy, you've moved to the States.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:03.759
So just for listeners, just to bring them up to your story, and I know he touched on it in the intro.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:08.559
So what then happens in that part of your life?
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:22.639
Yeah, I'd um I'd moved um to just outside of Denver.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:38.320
Um and uh the Rocky Mountains um in Colorado are a really magical place to be living.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:56.639
Um and I'd gone there in preparation for um the tour of Utah and then the tour of Colorado uh racing for a team named Jelly Belly.
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:02.320
Not too sure if you're familiar with the confectionery, but um it was a tasty trip.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:28.480
Anyway, um what had happened was in the second day of the the tour of Utah, um I'd gotten really sick with pneumonia um and didn't really know how that had happened.
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:44.639
I could only assume that it was the probably two months of altitude training in Evergreen at about you know 2,500 meters altitude.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:52.000
I was living um remorselessly preparing myself to do these two races.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:26.559
Um was rushed to hospital and woke up the next day and they said, Oh look, you've turned septic and you've got you know a number of these infections, so we'll uh we'll just hit you up with all the antibiotics, and um and I interestingly thought to myself, oh this would be a great opportunity to get a few days' rest, um, fly back to you know to Denver and then get ready for the tour of Colorado.
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:56.719
Um so after two days, booked my flight, um, which was an early morning flight the next day um and was discharged from the hospital, made my way to the hotel um relatively close to the airport, and by the time I got there, the uh the restaurant at the hotel was closed.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.119
So I asked the receptionist, uh, is there any food available?
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:08.239
And they said, No, well, that place is closed, but there's a few restaurants just across the intersection and down the road.
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:10.480
So I thought, oh, cool.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:42.320
I stepped out of the hotel, made a left, and uh well, well, I presumed to be across the road, um woke up six, seven days later um with people dressed in lab coats peering over me, and I sort of thought to myself, this wasn't the hotel room I was booked into, was it?
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:59.119
And uh discovered shortly afterwards that um I'd been hit by someone um who'd driven off um into the night.
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:17.360
So amid that confusion, um yeah, I was uh I was one sort of in an immediate sense questioning that you know, can I walk?
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.039
Um, can people understand what I'm trying to say?
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:26.079
Um all those sorts of things that you'd be you know freaking out about.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:58.960
Um but after my family had flown over from Australia and um they were able to you know recognize and understand what had taken place, then started the journey of you know the the physiological rehabilitation, um which took about six to eight weeks, still in Utah at a facility there um where they re-taught me how to you know function.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:13.039
And um as is with the case a lot of the time when you're in that sort of environment, um part of the rehabilitation process is movement.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:22.960
Um and they'd done all the brain scans and recognized the damage that had uh occurred.
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:40.800
Um so it was sort of a mix between you know making sure that I was able to articulate um my sentence structure as a normal person would, um, and also the physical side of things too.
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:52.719
Um and unfortunately, um a part of that involved massive amounts of medication.
00:39:53.119 --> 00:40:10.719
Um as you can imagine, over the months accumulating numerous operations and whatnot, um I formulated uh huge dependence on uh on these drugs.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:39.920
Um yeah, I I suppose it's one of those things where you know you can reconcile reconcile the the fact of what had happened um and justify the behaviors of you know taking the substance to mitigate you know the the angst or the discomfort that you're in.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:50.079
Um but that was coupled with the sense of I don't really know who I am anymore.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:41:14.000
Um I'd lost the purpose of what I had been doing up until that point in my life, um and just substituted it with you know a day-to-day bunch of survival mechanisms, um which yeah, which didn't really end up functioning that well.
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:24.079
Um so yeah as you said in the intro, that sort of lasted for ten to twelve years.
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:50.000
I mean there's a pause for me because I think just not that I don't think I ever could imagine what that's like or understand what it was like, but there's a part of you that just goes and goes, Oh wow.
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:58.480
How much do you feel comfortable sharing about what that 10 years was like?
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.719
Because there's a lot in that, isn't there?
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:24.719
There's a there's obviously like you've said, you know, you've openly said around some dependency, and then there's also you also talked about the loss of identity, and each one of those are very big things in most people's lives, but combined together.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:56.320
You know, can you give us you don't have to go as deep as you feel like you want to go, but I guess it's you know, what was that what was what was that like and examples for people out there that maybe because people listening to this are gonna, you know, that's the great thing with these conversations is there might be people that listen to this that have got a dependency or have got a loss of identity, and actually your story will be resonating with them.
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:31.920
You know, this is the great, you know, and this is why I appreciate you sharing your story because you know, we don't know whoever listens to this, you know, and that's the bit of the lovely part of me, and the bit I enjoy having these conversations because people listening, you never know who's gonna land with what I guess and just be curious again from a place of curiosity and share what you feel comfortable sharing, but what was that kind of that period of your life like?
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:42.880
And then how did you then obviously um I want to say the word to take control, but I don't know if that's that's that that lands well.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:51.119
But again, how did you you know m get okay, get from where you that that journey into this next chapter?
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:09.199
Yeah, I guess um there's there's certain sort of Phases that um that you that I I went through.
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:22.400
Um one of which was the initial denial um of what had happened um in the incident itself.
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:58.000
Um and to be so dismissive of that um was you know really really self-neglectful because I wasn't paying attention to um to the correct recovery process, um, which would have provided the self-discovery necessary um to reestablish who I was as a person.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:19.039
But what I did in fact was avoid the self-confrontation um in and of itself to say, look, this is potentially going to be the most life-changing experience um, if any, that you're going to have.
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:54.480
Um because at that point in time um I turned it into, as I said before, just a whole bunch or ball of defense mechanisms to to basically mitigate any harm or perceived, you know, catastrophic outcomes.
00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:06.239
The flip side to that, of course, is that you know the further down the rabbit hole you go, um the harder it is to get out.
00:46:07.119 --> 00:47:11.199
And that would mean not getting in touch with people who would have been massively helpful, um, not connecting to people who often enough are there to provide the best support and care, um, and gradually falling into a hole, um which I experienced in a way that it was so self-destructive, and it was all under the guise of you know uh maybe no one no one can understand, given what I had been previously and now nothing, and you know, no one walks into the street and gets hit by cars, doesn't happen, so people just won't be able to comprehend.
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:38.559
Um and all those factors just led to more denial um and that complete disconnection um from what was in fact reality um led to a I think I said the other day a really good set of examples on how not to live your life.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:49:09.199
Um so and then I suppose in the the second phase was attempts that I'd formulated in order to re-establish myself, um and they were really misdirected, um trying to do things with my time, getting certifications um as a you know a personal trainer and helping people out, which others could see as you know someone doing the best that they could at that point in time, but they too were just things that I were doing um to avoid putting into context what had actually taken place, um so they just provide avenues for me to be doing things that weren't really meaningful to me, um and then I think after about the eighth year or so, um I put myself through such a ring of incidents and sort of re-traumatizing myself too.
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:52.320
Um not in a psychological way of remembering the incident because I couldn't, um, but reflecting back on elements of of my career that I couldn't relive again, um which caused like continual rumination about things that I couldn't change because you know the past couldn't have happened any other way because it didn't, and I was just trying to fix holes that you know I couldn't mend.
00:49:52.880 --> 00:50:12.320
Um so I think it was probably the third time I'd been woken up from uh overdosing on medication at a friend's place.
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:29.039
Um I woke up again, um hospitalized, being told the stories about how someone had found me and how it sort of ruined their life.
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:44.559
Um it was enough damage to me that made me think, no, this is the point in time in which I need to change.
00:50:46.000 --> 00:51:45.519
Um and that sort of brought me to the third phase, um, which was having the support and accepting the goodwill of those I was associated with and my family and close friends to say now would be a really good time to go into full-time rehabilitation for as long as it takes in order to really recognize and understand who I was, what my purpose in life is, and to reset everything.
00:51:46.800 --> 00:52:21.679
Um, and I think through taking that step it was what I really needed, um, and sort of finds myself now nearly three years on able to to really appreciate that that took place um and how fortunate I am um being able to speak to it, um which is in like it's important, you know.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.440
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:39.679
Um I could really feel you kind of a lot of the emotion through, even though you're halfway around the world and more via Zoom.
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:51.679
Um I guess then where's that, you know, when what have you learned?
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:57.599
Is there any lessons that you've taken from that experience?
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:15.519
You say there over the last three years you kind of now you're and I I want to also move into what you're doing now because you you know you you're moving into helping support others now, so it's you know, there is a there's a happy ending, isn't it, to the you know, and the to this next chapter.
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:17.599
But I guess is there any lessons about that?
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:22.639
Because you know, you broke it down really, really articulately the three phases you went through.
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:38.320
And you know, I guess for anyone listening now that it might not be them, it might be somebody they know that they've they're aware of, you know, that that they're in some kind of struggle.
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:50.960
Um you know what what could you what can you take from your kind of experiences that you think would be helpful for others maybe listening?
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:56.320
Yeah, definitely.
00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:33.519
Um I think I think one of the the most fundamental things that I was able to pick up um while in um I guess you'd call it the the sanctuary of rehabilitation away from the world completely, um that it's gonna be okay.
00:54:34.320 --> 00:55:13.440
Um and I know that that gets said around the place continually, but I was only able to really recognize the power of that when I'd actually been killed temporarily, but waking up from that experience and then magnified countless other times being woken up again in the hospital environment.
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:28.480
Um through honesty with yourself, um and it's about accepting that reality before trying to change it.
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:45.840
Um often enough, the gravity of what we're experiencing or perceiving isn't really reflective of uh what's actually happening.
00:55:46.639 --> 00:56:06.000
Um and it's through the experiences of um you know the challenge that we're faced with that brings us to the present.
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:46.559
So, yeah, often enough when speaking to people about how bad it is that I've wound up here, or you know, I'm not putting out this significant data that is in any way reflective of who I am, it's like, well, if you're in a position to be here right now, and we're talking about it, then what whatever you've overcome has been achieved.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:50.960
Which is pretty awesome.
00:56:52.800 --> 00:57:16.400
Um so it's just about I guess reminding people of their you know their capacity um in any instance to provide the resilience to themselves, um which you know sort of supersedes everything.
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:18.880
I love that.
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:27.440
So you've retrained.
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:29.119
Yeah.
00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:31.519
So do you want to expand on that?
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:34.079
Yeah, for sure.
00:57:34.400 --> 00:58:03.440
Um what I found was that um in speaking about the the pure elements of um what it feels like to be um completely fulfilled in an athletic sense and you know, rich with life and experiences and whatnot, um, for that to be taken away.
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:26.480
Is a really, really similar occurrence for people um in high performing sport, high performing business, um, and a lot of elements of day-to-day life because it's it juxtaposes what we're used to and then what isn't there anymore.
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:44.559
Um so what it found was that after I'd been able to speak about my journey um more openly and um getting people availability of myself.
00:58:44.719 --> 00:59:07.039
Um the amount of people who wanted to reach out um and share, you know, how they felt so alone and almost useless in a way was quite a frequent occurrence.
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:31.440
So what was most important for me was to reintroduce the skills that I was able to pick up along my way in professional sport at the highest level to then use um in basically what I try to do now.
00:59:32.079 --> 01:00:17.920
And that's encourage people to increase their awareness and utilize all those little things um which they probably took for granted during their you know their time at the top level or you know in different positions and re-engage because it's really um it's really important to feel as if um you know you're you're useful um because everyone is at the end of the day.
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:41.599
Um you know there's there's so many you know different strategies and ways we can break down finding your purpose, but it's a part of the the adventure that we're all on, which basically gives us the the purpose on a platter.
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:53.360
Um and it's just that reaching out and and reconnecting with people, which often enough provides the the ways in which we can facilitate that unfolding.
01:00:56.079 --> 01:00:58.800
Do you think that is some of the strength of the work you're doing now?
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:20.400
Is almost you know, there's a lot resonating for me just in that way you were saying about how you know people don't even stop to think about you know what they've achieved or what the purpose is, or they're just sometimes it's going along with the grind, don't they?
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:26.480
So you know, bringing it back to that self-awareness can be really, really powerful, can't it?
01:01:28.960 --> 01:02:07.039
Yeah, it's huge to you know appreciate the magnitude of what we've been through in anyone's life um is massively empowering um because we can find so much utility and and um and strength from you know what we've been able to overcome, um whether that be you know in uh in sports or or business, um in anything.
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:21.599
Um if we really sit back and appreciate um the most simple of things, um it makes the rest of it unfold a whole lot easier.
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:25.599
Yeah, and it's interesting, there's a few things that come from that.
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:32.159
I love the fact that you know this is this adventure we're all on, and I think it's a nice reframe of life, isn't it?
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:39.360
If you see it as an adventure, okay, what what's you know, it makes you come you know, I smile at that thinking, okay.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:43.280
And it certainly made me think, okay, that's exciting, actually, because it it feels exciting.
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:45.519
Well, what's next around the corner?
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:58.960
Or you know, you know, maybe without worrying about the outcome but the processor, but if it is an adventure, you know, let's just hope that it's uh open it up to the world to hope that the next adventure is going to be exciting.
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:04.639
Um yeah, I really like that.
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:09.599
And you just and you've retrained, so you've is it psychotherapy?
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:31.119
You've yeah, um for the time being, I think by the end of this year um I'll have my my qualifications in um in psychotherapy, or what I'd sort of prefer to to call general counseling.
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:31.920
Okay.
01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:59.519
And also addictive behavior therapy, um which is it's one of those things where if you're in the environment where um you're so frequently um bombarded with information about treatment modalities and whatever, um a lot of it becomes second nature.
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:19.760
Um, but what I'd found through these two disciplines um with the experience of what I'd had previously is my ability to really listen to people.
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:50.159
Um because if I'm just sit across from anyone and provide them with you know so much information that they're not capable of downloading or absorbing themselves, that's going to neglect their story and what they have to provide for themselves essentially to get the most out of what they they really want.
01:04:51.119 --> 01:05:19.599
Um so yeah, optimistically by I think by the end of this year I'll be able to um to really start um at least from a at least from a public perspective, be able to engage with people um in a uh in a really productive way.
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:55.679
Um what I don't want to do is walk into the scene, you know, acting as if I've got all this credibility, um, when in fact I'd prefer to just come in as myself in a position where I'm prepared to listen to anyone's story and find for them the best opportunities that they can get for themselves out of themselves.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:00.559
Love that.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:01.840
I love that.
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:09.199
I guess being a little bit conscious of time.
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:56.159
I guess if I could just start bringing it together thinking about what you've learned about yourself through the many chapters um of your adventure, what would we, you know, if we think about what you've learned about yourself and then what you're now doing, helping support others, you know, is there anything that we've not really talked about around optimizing ourselves or optimizing others that you think is important to share before we kind of move into some deep advice stuff?
01:07:00.880 --> 01:08:22.399
Yeah, I suppose from a personal perspective, um, when it comes to the uh the optimization piece, it's pretty much for me at least identifying with the information that really is relevant um to you because um it's also easy to get bombarded by um so many different formulas and um different contexts or ways in which to do things, which is all great, but it's all just information and very dismissive of what it actually is to act out these things in real life, um so I suppose you could say that's just really getting to know yourself as a person is fundamentally, at least for me, key to to optimizing your own game.
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:26.479
Uh I I I couldn't I don't think I can agree more.
01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:42.560
And I think the other thing for me, what I heard from you earlier is, you know, and then supporting others, it's taking that time to listen to people understand, you know, helping others to maybe understand themselves and then what they can be doing to support themselves as well, isn't it?
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:50.560
You know, I think that's what I I've I've certainly picked up from this conversation.
01:08:50.960 --> 01:09:05.119
Um so if we just delve into a little bit of advice or kind of summer sum it up rather than advice of kind of just maybe some things that people could consider.
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:10.319
So we'll just ask a question: what are three practical things that people could try today?
01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:58.880
Yeah, I think um probably one for me essentially is um when you get the chance to reflect, um whether it's you know a daily practice or even weekly, identify the behaviors that you can see yourself repeating that'll actually work or have worked, and normally they're a really good indicator of what's actually going to function for you.
01:09:59.119 --> 01:09:59.439
Okay.
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:05.760
Um, and also a really good example of what not to do, okay.
01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:21.760
Which sounds remarkably simple, but uh often enough there are things that we just go amiss, like uh that didn't count, or oh that was really cool, and then the next time you do it, it's just by fortune.
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:29.199
But it's not because it you know, if it's effective, normally it's going to be functional and it works, so that's important.
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:47.600
Um secondly, I'd say uh allowing yourself to giving yourself permission to get curious and ask questions about why I'm thinking a particular way.
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:54.960
Um because often enough our perception leads us to believe things that are just stupid.
01:10:55.760 --> 01:11:14.960
Um, we've got our cortex so well figured out that we can tell ourselves all kind of magical things, but in fact, a lot of it is bullshit, so we need to you know uh ascertain um what's effective, what's not.
01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:39.359
Um and yeah, I suppose thirdly would be um get some intentionality, um which works into the whole purpose deal.
01:11:39.520 --> 01:12:04.880
Um if you find what you are actually intentional about doing, um another one of those things that sounds quite blasé or whatever, but as a gut instinct, um forget about what the the brain can analyze and you know provide data for and all that sort of jazz.
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:24.000
If you know internally, you actually really know, uh which some might call just the general reality check, but it's about what's uh what's really lighting that fire for you.
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:30.960
Um, and often enough that's going to suggest you know where the true intention is.
01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:42.640
Um so giving yourself this the sort of time to to just you know sit back and reflect on where that sits for you is important.
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:47.359
I I completely agree, and I think it all does start.
01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:53.760
There's a there's a prerequisite of giving you you almost giving yourself permission to time to reflect sometimes as well, isn't there?
01:12:54.960 --> 01:13:07.279
You know, we live in these lives of busyness and where busyness is often seen as a badge of honour, and it can be seen as a badge of honour to be, oh yeah, I'm really busy, you know.
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:16.319
Um sometimes just giving yourself permission to have that that time to sit, reflect, and ask yourselves those good questions.
01:13:17.039 --> 01:13:18.720
Now I really love them.
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:31.359
I was when I was listening to them, and where I see the power in what you've just said is we do loads of things unconsciously, don't we?
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:43.359
And we have these habits unconsciously by actually taking the time, like you've said, to kind of become aware to bring them into our conscious awareness and analyse sometimes.
01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:49.039
Oh, actually, this is a helpful trait that's keep this, or what on earth am I doing this for?
01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:56.000
Maybe that's the or you know, being curious about why you are doing certain things by bringing them into the conscious.
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:58.479
No, really powerful and agree with all of them.
01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:00.159
I think they're really lovely.
01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:07.359
So, what's one principle you wish every leader understood?
01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:47.359
Um Yeah, I suppose it's it's really, really difficult um for people in leadership, particularly, you know, um as you said before, these days when we're continually bombarded by um information.
01:14:47.680 --> 01:15:12.239
Um so it's quite possible for you know, whether it's employees or you know, team members that you're, you know, um in a leadership position of to be you know influenced by different forms of information.
01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:25.359
Um so I guess it's just important to really stick with the process.
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:52.880
Um which is one of those things that it's sort of it gets mega thrashed, um you know, in most sports these days, um and just in the whole global sphere, um it's just that word process.
01:15:54.720 --> 01:16:14.640
But I've found within myself that it's only throughout that process that you're able to find the the ways in which to actually modulate or change what's required, um, and that's where the gold is.
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:32.960
Um so as mundane or you know monotonous as it might appear to Yeah, but if we put a sexy title on it, create passion for the process or something, then it'll then it'll yeah, that's what I'm saying.
01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:37.199
But but the I everything you're saying, I think, is really strong.
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:47.359
And I think it is, you know, and that's the you know, a lot of people are looking for the you know, you've just said that actually the gold is in that, you know.
01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:59.520
The gold sometimes it, you know, we've already and most people listening to this are already doing that, they're just not searching for the gold in that, they're searching for the gold in something different, you know.
01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:02.000
Definitely so I think it's really good.
01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:07.680
Just before we wrap it up, is there anything we've not covered that you feel that you'd like to share?
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:10.560
You can obviously say no, don't worry.
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:32.640
Um maybe just on a last point, um, which for me counts across the globe for everyone, is not to rely on motivation alone.
01:17:33.439 --> 01:18:04.000
Okay, it's a really good way to isolate yourself, um identify and recognize the behaviors that are going to make life easier because it's through doing that that we be happy in ourselves and reflect that to other people, and that gets reciprocated, so it just becomes a more user-friendly environment for everyone, I guess.
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:07.760
No, I love that, I love that too.
01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:16.880
So the people who are listening and want to follow you and know more about you, where can they where do you hang out?
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:18.560
Where can they follow you?
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:40.000
Um I've actually yet to release this website, and part of that is because I don't want to I'm reluctant to attempt saturating the environment with too much information.
01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:44.560
So I'm trying to trim it down and keep it as simplistic as possible.
01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:45.039
Yeah.
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:52.319
Um, but when I do so, I'll be able to reach out to you and yes, yeah, let me know and we we we can add it onto the pod.
01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:53.279
That's fine.
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:58.720
Um otherwise, yeah.
01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:04.880
Um I think on on Facebook it's just Maddie Lloyd.
01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:07.199
There should be a picture of a cyclist on there.
01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:11.199
I'll add all the links in with everything that you want them to have, yeah.
01:19:11.279 --> 01:19:11.840
Don't worry.
01:19:12.159 --> 01:19:12.640
Yeah.
01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:19.039
Um but I'll be able to fill people in on um what it is that that I'll be doing.
01:19:19.279 --> 01:19:44.000
And um, of course, you know, if anyone wants to to reach out to me, I'm more than you know comfortable to to speak to people, um, particularly about issues that they're facing, um, and ways in which they can find you know the best you know uh the best ways through it.
01:19:44.239 --> 01:19:54.640
Um and often enough that's that's the first step is just reaching out, having someone to listen and to recognize what it is that they're going through.
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:56.880
So, you know, that's always important.
01:19:57.279 --> 01:19:59.680
I agree, and that's that's an amazing thing.
01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:01.840
Um what are you working on next?
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:03.920
Sounds like the website.
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:10.720
Um yeah, um, as I said, it'll be it'll be relatively simplistic.
01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:53.279
Um and um once I've uh once I've been able to accrue enough um I suppose practical work that's you know obviously documented and um taking care of the uh the psychotherapy side of things, I'll be able to, you know, uh get amongst it in um in a recognised or registered fashion, um which will be productive, hopefully.
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:54.960
Yes, no, definitely so.
01:20:55.039 --> 01:20:56.800
I think uh I think you're gonna be awesome.
01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:57.680
I generally do.
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:03.119
I think I think you've I think you are awesome already.
01:21:03.199 --> 01:21:12.720
I think on what you what you're gonna go on to create and what you are looking to do, I think will be very helpful in the world.
01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:14.880
Very, very helpful in the world.
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:20.800
Is it one final challenge you'd like to set our audience and our guests and our listeners?
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:26.159
One final challenge.
01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:32.159
Um This is actually the best one of all.
01:21:37.039 --> 01:21:45.600
It's it sounds ridiculous, but to sit with yourself.
01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:53.840
No objective, no music, no soundtrack, no mantra, whatever.
01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:57.279
Just sit there.
01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:20.640
Even at the point where you don't have to time it, acknowledge that space and from what you get inside is often enough to get you through you know the next day, the next half hour, whatever it might be.
01:22:21.119 --> 01:22:26.399
Um acknowledging the self is crucial.
01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:31.279
Beautiful.
01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:34.560
Marty, thanks ever so much.
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:37.920
I've really enjoyed it to all of our listeners.
01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:42.399
Oh mate, honestly, this is uh I've been so looking forward to this.
01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:45.520
It's been it's been I'm really really looking forward to getting it out.
01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:49.760
And for our listeners, make sure you are following when you will follow this.
01:22:49.840 --> 01:22:52.479
We'll all your episodes will come straight into you.
01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:57.279
Um any questions, queries, anything, feel free to reach out.
01:22:57.439 --> 01:22:59.359
Any feedback, feel free to reach out.
01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:01.920
For now, Matty, listen, thank you ever so much.
01:23:02.079 --> 01:23:04.239
It's been a privilege to have you on.
01:23:04.399 --> 01:23:08.960
It's been a privilege to to listen to your story and your honesty.
01:23:09.039 --> 01:23:09.840
So thank you.
01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:12.960
Thank you so much, Eddie.
01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:14.159
Thank you.
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:14.080
Welcome to Unlocking Human Potential.
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With me, Andy Hosgood, a show dedicated to exploring what it really takes psychologically, behaviourally and practically to help humans thrive through conversations with leaders, founders, coaches, behavioural experts and people shaping how humans perform and grow.
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Is this for you?
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But if you're a leader, a founder, a business owner or an ambitious professional who wants to do more than just perform, they want to grow, inspire, and bring the best out in themselves and their people, then keep listening because the mission is simple to explore how individuals and teams unlock potential in themselves, in others, and the organizations they shape.
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Every episode is a deep but relaxed conversation built around three core questions.
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How do you optimise yourself?
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How do you unlock potential in others?
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And the best advice for you, the listener.
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Now over to the episode.
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Really hope you find it helpful and insightful.
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Just before we introduce our next guest, please make sure you press the follow button to keep updated with the latest episodes.
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Additionally, special thanks to 246 Photography and PixelMate Brands for making this podcast a reality.
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Now over to the episode.
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Matty, thank you for joining me.
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Thanks for having me on board, Andy.
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All the way from Melbourne, which I believe is the original capital of Australia.
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Well, some may have us believe so, but um it's uh it's a point of conjecture.
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So for for our listeners, um Mike Lloyd is a former professional cyclist whose career reached the highest level of world sport, an Olympian, Australian national road champion, and winner of both the stage of the King of the Mountains classification of the Giro d'Italia.
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He experienced the extraordinary heights that few athletes ever reach.
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But his most significant education came after sport.
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In 2014, Matthew suffered a catastrophic hit-and-run accident in the United States that left him with a traumatic brain injury and multiple life-threatening injuries.
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What followed was a decade-long battle with addiction, identity loss, and the painstaking process of rebuilding a life from the ground up.
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My welcome to unlocking human potential.
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I we connected because I did a podcast with Susie Kindred.
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We put it on Instagram.
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Um, you'd commented on the post, and for confession of most people, I'm a bit of an Instagram stalker.
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When people comment, I'm going, right, who's this guy?
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Um, so I looked at your profile, I looked at things you'd done, and I reached straight out saying I'd love to have a conversation.
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And I'll be honest, from I didn't know where the conversation was going to go really go when we first met.
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It really impacted me.
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In fact, I think I've been telling your story, knowing that we we had this book, Jen.
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I think I've been telling your story for the last two weeks since we got it in.
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Um, because I think there's gonna be a lot of stuff that listeners can take away from uh your story, your journey, and obviously a lot of the lessons that you've learned along the way.
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So I really appreciate you uh taking the time to do this.
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Yeah, thanks so much, Andy.
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Um it's it's one of those things with you know, whether it be Instagram or generally internet these days, if we're to investigate the things that just take our interest, um often enough through that we can find um the things that that really draw us in.
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Um so uh whether it's happenstance or just uh the way things work, um, I'm really fortunate to to have got in contact with you and um yeah, really looking forward to to our discussion.
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Brilliant.
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So one of the things that kind of underpins the podcast, and I would probably say the majority of guests, and certainly my kind of outlook in life is curiosity.
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So we always ask guests what is it, what's something that you're curious about right now.
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Yeah, I suppose one of the things um that I'm continually drawn to or provides the most curiosity for me is people's capacity um to recognize their own potential, which sounds quite broad and you know, um I suppose open-ended, but that's the beauty of it, because we're in a time particularly right now where we don't actually know where the global trajectory is going.
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Um, but for me that draws into um our own personal potentials.
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Um and if we're to really lock in and focus on those optimistically, of course, we'll be heading in the right trajectory um in the in the macro sense.
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So uh yeah, it's an interesting dynamic, but um yeah, I suppose draws a bit of interest for me.
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So it's uh it's pretty cool.
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I think it's really cool.
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It's my I I love the topic, so you know you're in you're in good company with that.
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So for our first time listeners, and just might just to set the scene of what we're gonna go through, you know, we kind of bring this into three sections.
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This podcast, it's around unlocking ourselves, and you know, how do we make ourselves as optimal as we can, depending on where you want to take that?
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You know, how do we unlock others and get the best out of others and best best potential?
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And then I think it's always important that when people have given up you know, an hour of their time to listen to us, that we kind of try and bring it together and you know the so what piece, what can people then do with the with parts of the conversation and the insights that we've had during this?
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Um so we'll do it that and we'll bring it all together at the end with some advice.
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Does that sound okay for you?
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Sounds awesome.
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So when we talk around kind of unlocking our own potential, you know, even in your bio and the bit that I got, you know, I see I'll certainly allow you to go where you go with this.
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I certainly kind of see three avenues that where we could touch on if you feel comfortable, is obviously to achieve what you achieved as an athlete is I think what most people would dream of, if that's fair to say, you know, and getting to the heights that you got to is a phenomenal achievement.
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I think to manage to deal with the catastrophe that happened to you in 2014, you know, and how you navigated that journey and that part of your or that chapter of your life, if you feel comfortable exploring that, that would be, you know, and how you how you kind of re found your potential or you know, dubbed it, whatever, wherever that goes.
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And then obviously what you're doing now in your career and you know, helping supporting others, and you kind of retrained and stuff.
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Um so I kind of leave it to you where you want to start.
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If you want to start from the beginning and you know, and go that way, or if you want to dip in and out, then feel free to take it where you go.
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Yeah, I suppose um, yeah, just looking back um at uh where it all started for for me um during my my career, I find it most interesting because I came from the sort of um the mindset that you know the harder I was to push um the things would eventually get better.
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Um and people could put that down to an athletic mindset or you know, even a business type mindset.
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Um but now I think more about reducing the distance between you know what you know about yourself and more of what you're consistently able to do.
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So in the career space, I wasn't able to differentiate um between those two things.
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So the outcome was often enough what I really, really wanted, and whether that provided the inner satisfaction or not.
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I didn't know.
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Um throughout the the time piece, if we're to draw it out over the the long term, I was able to um recognise and understand um those bits and pieces that were taking place throughout my career, but also in the following years to come.
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Um that uh go in and thrash yourself sort of set up um wasn't really a great example to set for myself or for others.
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Um because it just ended up being a full-on catastrophe.
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Um and yeah, interestingly enough, you know, if I'm to look at it now, it's it's a clear differentiation between you know an outcome-based mindset um versus a process-driven, purpose-oriented mindset, um, which fortunately I'm now able to take full advantage of, well, optimistically so.
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But um, yeah, I suppose it all comes through about timing, um, patience.
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Can can you just share?
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So, you know, I listen there's a kind of very eat and all over from kind of sport leadership um coaching backgrounds.
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Can you just expand on the difference between the outcome and that process-based mindset just for those people that maybe are unfamiliar?
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Yeah, definitely.
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Um, so say, for example, you've got um a bunch of kids and they're playing basketball.
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Um, and they love what they're doing, they're so associated with all the interaction and the games, um, and the joy that they're receiving from their own performance and looking forward to the victory that they'll get, um, or how many points they'll be able to shoot in the game.
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Um, and all of that energy is directed into you know the outcome itself.
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Um whereas if we're to look at what purpose that's serving, it's more of an internal sensation that people can get.
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So you put the same kids on the court and you think about you know, what does that connection mean to your friends?
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Does it make you know Jimmy and Jessica feel good that you've rocked up to training today?
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You know, will it make them want to come back the next time?
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So the difference in the purpose of what you're doing versus the the outcomes um is really significant.
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Um because when it gets to the you know, the big time, um often enough with huge victories like Olympics, um, you know, Tour de France, the duo at Italia, etc.
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:42.000
You know, if your purpose and your identity is separate from just what you do, um it really turns into a I suppose a deeper connection um with yourself and often enough with the environment around you as opposed to you know I've got the gold medal or the trophy um and all the aesthetic things that come with that.
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Um so yeah, it's it's quite challenging to to put that across to you know really young people because they they see the the flashing lights and um the things that are are really cool.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:22.080
Um but it avoids the process and the um the integral steps that are required to get to that point and the satisfaction overall that one can get from acknowledging and sticking to you know the diligence of of what you're gonna reward yourself in the end.
00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:28.080
Um so just kind of playing that back a little.
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:46.240
So is there a because we we've had quite a few guests that have have said something very similar, where when you're very outcome focused, then your outcome might be to be a world champion, you know, in second win the Tour de France, winning a gold medal, but very limited people will ever do that.
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:53.039
So actually, then if you're very outcome, this is my assumption of what you're saying.
00:15:53.120 --> 00:16:17.919
So please correct me if if if there's a you know, and you you we we had um we had an ex MMA fighter on now into a coach and leadership, and one of the things he was saying, and we've had a few UFC fighters have come on and said, look, they wanted to be champion, that was their outcome, but they didn't achieve it, so the part of them was you know dissatisfied with who they were as a person with their career and everything else.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:32.159
Whereas actually, when we look at them from an outsider, they've achieved some phenomenal things, but that only in hindsight have they gone back and went what we forget or failed to do is just enjoy the process of getting there.
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.000
Enjoy the actually, we love this.
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:46.000
The reason why we got into this is because we enjoy combat sports, we enjoy the competitive edge, we enjoy getting in there and pushing ourselves and challenging ourselves, and part of that process is doing that every single day.
00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:50.480
Is that what we're if I have I understood that correctly?
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:53.360
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:17:23.440
Um it's about the connectedness that you feel um within yourself, um and uh I suppose a certain amount of um you know self-gratitude that you you receive um through accomplishing um smaller, medium, large size things.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:34.160
Um so yeah, definitely Ferraris don't you know don't turn around and give you a hug after you've done really well.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:40.640
Um it's uh it's just one of those things, I guess.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:18:16.880
But I think it's a really I think it's a really important topic because you know, I guess in the world of that I sit myself now as an executive coach, mainly working with founder-based business owners, you know, they set these big goals of what they want their business to do at the start, and then along the way they get these moments where when they're not achieved or what not where they are, where they want to be, that they do, you know, that becomes disheartened, becomes disillusioned, becomes putting themselves in, am I not good enough?
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:36.400
Self-belief goes, all of those things that you know, where again, you know, if you were to maybe and when you play it back, saying if you were to start your business and you if if if you were to start your business today and you were to say you were going to be turning over this amount of money in this amount of time, would you be happy?
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:38.960
Well, yeah, but I'd set my goal at this, okay.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:48.480
So it's so if you were to roll back, you know, what you've achieved is an amazing achievement.
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:53.680
But because you're always, like you've said, looking at the outcome and the outcome focused, and they haven't achieved the outcome.
00:18:53.839 --> 00:19:01.440
Actually, when they're looking at it, they're looking through a very negative lens that actually makes them suboptimal, you know.
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:13.920
Whereas, you know, if we can get in, that the whole point of we go into business is to enjoy the freedom of working for ourselves or the ability to make our own decisions or take things in the direction we want to do without being told, you know.
00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:17.599
So that is the the process, isn't it, that we're trying to kind of say.
00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:25.119
So there's there's so much similarities from what you're saying that I think also that we can take into a kind of into a business as well.
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:28.400
Yeah, definitely.
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:54.720
Um the uh I suppose the the major thing um with sports and um and I'm definitely gonna say with business is the the perception that we formulate from the outset um is often enough attached to um the objectives that you know we foresee or imagine.
00:19:54.960 --> 00:20:04.000
Um but that neglects um the the nerve the sort of work that's required to get there.
00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:14.240
Um and that work in itself, as you said, provides the inner sense of of satisfaction, um, the real reward.
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:27.279
Um and that's the thing that um that we're able to to look back on and say, yeah, you know, that's that's where I was at that point in time, and that's what I achieved.
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.079
Um and that's where the quality is.
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:37.680
Um regardless of how you know how huge the the outcome was at all.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:44.720
And it was that is that a reflection in hindsight reflection of you as an athlete?
00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:52.960
Were you quite an outcome-focused person and not process driven or and what and if if when when was there a shift?
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.079
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:10.240
Um, I think from the very, very outset, um, I had uh this this set of objectives, uh two of which um formulated perfect for me.
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:15.680
You know, winning the national championship was um a huge priority.
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:33.519
Um and I say priority because it it really had nothing to do with all the other elements, for example, just making it to turn professional in itself, which is quite a you know a massive thing to do.
00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.880
But that was not in my vision.
00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:48.480
Um it was just the one day race in Australia to gain the victory, which would supersede everything.
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:59.759
Um and secondary to that, when I eventually went into the world tour, um I think it would have been in the first couple of months.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:13.759
Um, I'd set this objective one day looking at other guys performing at the Tour of Italy, and I said, I'd really love to win the climber's jersey at that race.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:19.440
Probably because I was living in Italy at that point in time, it's a magical race in itself.
00:22:20.160 --> 00:22:34.000
Um that was on my mind, and I'd let the directors know, and they said, Okay, well, if you want to do that, then that's your race, and that's where it's going to be.
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:42.640
Um, and interestingly enough, you know, a couple of years later, um, that was me on that spot.
00:22:43.200 --> 00:23:07.039
Um, and I think through our discussion the other day, I was telling you about how I'd formulated training plans on track lists to music to work out my cadence and the distance and the climbs and every microfactor imaginable just for a three-week period in May 2010.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:20.799
While neglecting life itself on the exterior, there was no existence, it was all about that race, and that's what took place.
00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:28.960
Um, which yeah, um, was purely outcome focused.
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:50.880
Um and um yeah, I think um as I'd also mentioned upon the completion of that race, I sort of sat there and thought to myself, you know, is that is that it?
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.720
Is that everything?
00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:57.119
And it just wasn't.
00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:03.920
So um it was a massive contrast to what I'd imagined or perceived it to be.
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:09.680
Um I think that that really brought it home at that point in time.
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:22.160
Is there a and I guess I think that from the conversations I've had, I think one I think you're not alone in that, isn't it?
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:34.799
You you set your goal on this, and when you've achieved it, actually, that feeling isn't what what you assumed it would be, which is kind of the vibe I'm getting, which then kind of leaves you with a bit of a okay.
00:24:36.400 --> 00:25:39.599
I guess the question that and I'm gonna ask it because the listeners can't ask it for do you think there's a world where if you weren't so focused everything around your world for those three months that you would have you would have won that it's a challenging question, um and it really peers deep into um into the characteristics of um the attributes of of a certain person's um mental capabilities, um physiological side of things too.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:26:07.039
Um because often enough in sports we find ourselves you know in awe of these high performers who've got a certain amount of um you know possibility that's open to them purely because of their um physiological um advantages for their particular sports.
00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:24.319
Um and I think at the at the top level um there's a certain bracket of individuals who are capable of holding themselves um within that zone or framework.
00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:54.480
Um it's very challenging because to imagine, particularly for myself, um in a place where I could live a completely normal life or existence without that top-end performance.
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:01.440
Yeah, I think it'll be really, really challenging.
00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:02.079
Okay.
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:43.680
And and again, it was coming from a place of curiosity, is because the you know, obviously, you were able to I think the life lesson I'm taking from this, and all I'm hearing and and I'm interpreting is you know, you can spend your whole life just focusing on one thing to the sacrifice of every so you know you sacrifice everything else in your life to focus on a three-week waste to win um stage where you think okay, that's the goal, I've achieved that goal, but actually I also get the vibe, but for what?
00:27:43.839 --> 00:28:03.680
Because actually what I thought I'd get from that I didn't get, so I don't know if I've assumed that correctly, you know, and and so there's there's almost the question of okay, it's great that you've done it and you've you know you've got that title which no one will ever take away from you, but what did it actually bring better to your life?
00:28:07.599 --> 00:29:02.960
Yeah, I think um it's probably for me at least there was almost a flip side to to that coin as well, um which has always interested me um just as much so as the as the performance-oriented mindset too, and it's that during the time I was racing as a as a professional, I'd always been hyper aware of the world itself in um in the external.
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:09.359
I wasn't engaging with it um probably as much as I would have normally, of course.
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:24.960
But it was always taking away the attention from the I suppose the severity or the hard nature that the professional sport it was in itself.
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:35.839
Um, could be said now as you know, my own justification for not continuing on a high level of performance or whatever.
00:29:36.799 --> 00:30:11.920
But I know for myself, um, and particularly those close to me, that I probably wasn't capable of performing at the level throughout my career purely because I didn't attach enough psychological um you know, people would call it determination into establishing a process um with you know enough you know rigidity or intensity as it was deserved.
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:21.920
Um so it's it's it's it's it's a really dynamic interface to play with now.
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:35.039
Um maybe a lot of that's you know, considering it's only natural to feel as if you sold yourself short uh after you've finished any career, I think.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:30:35.920
Yeah.
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:56.000
But from the conversations I've certainly had it that that's certainly uh I think a lot of especially high performing athletes, you know, because the career is always short, isn't it?
00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:58.079
Relatively.
00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:43.440
Um we had a fellow Australian Matthew Innens on and he was saying that you know he played you know first class cricket for Australia but never managed to play for actual Australia just because of where he was and there were people better than him, and he saw that as a as a bit of a failure during his career, but you know, and now he's got into performance and he's working with he's working with athletes and helping them kind of realize that you know unfortunately not everybody is gonna always get the highs.
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:48.720
Um and what do you do after that career, you know, because they are short.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:53.759
So I think a lot of athletes do seem to feel that, don't they?
00:31:53.920 --> 00:32:01.039
I've never been skilled enough to say I was a high level athlete of anything, so I can't I certainly can't embrace that feeling.
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:11.920
Um but there's certainly for the conversations I've experienced, you know, that is quite common after that after um high-level athletic career.
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:15.599
Yeah, definitely.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:50.079
Um it's quite a seldom occurrence that you know um you'll get really deep with someone who's been um performing at the at the highest level, um who can't think of moments or you know certain amounts of time in which they felt um a hundred percent um you know either engaged or you know fulfilled in what they did.
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:52.640
There's always something else.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:23.119
Um and uh the interesting thing too is as you said, you know, if if it takes for someone to be at that level um never to represent the country, um that's gotta be a really, really, you know, challenging thing just to conceptualize, but you know, it doesn't dismiss the effort and the passion that's involved with it.
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:31.119
Um yeah, and a lot of the time that sort of thing's forgotten, so yeah, it's uh it's an interesting one.
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:32.799
Yeah, it definitely is.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:38.079
But after your career, there was a different chapter, wasn't there?
00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:41.680
It was.
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:47.440
Shall we move on to 2014 then?
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:50.079
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:56.240
So you're living in Italy, you've moved to the States.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:03.759
So just for listeners, just to bring them up to your story, and I know he touched on it in the intro.
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:08.559
So what then happens in that part of your life?
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:22.639
Yeah, I'd um I'd moved um to just outside of Denver.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:38.320
Um and uh the Rocky Mountains um in Colorado are a really magical place to be living.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:56.639
Um and I'd gone there in preparation for um the tour of Utah and then the tour of Colorado uh racing for a team named Jelly Belly.
00:34:56.880 --> 00:35:02.320
Not too sure if you're familiar with the confectionery, but um it was a tasty trip.
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:28.480
Anyway, um what had happened was in the second day of the the tour of Utah, um I'd gotten really sick with pneumonia um and didn't really know how that had happened.
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:44.639
I could only assume that it was the probably two months of altitude training in Evergreen at about you know 2,500 meters altitude.
00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:52.000
I was living um remorselessly preparing myself to do these two races.
00:35:52.719 --> 00:36:26.559
Um was rushed to hospital and woke up the next day and they said, Oh look, you've turned septic and you've got you know a number of these infections, so we'll uh we'll just hit you up with all the antibiotics, and um and I interestingly thought to myself, oh this would be a great opportunity to get a few days' rest, um, fly back to you know to Denver and then get ready for the tour of Colorado.
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:56.719
Um so after two days, booked my flight, um, which was an early morning flight the next day um and was discharged from the hospital, made my way to the hotel um relatively close to the airport, and by the time I got there, the uh the restaurant at the hotel was closed.
00:36:56.960 --> 00:37:01.119
So I asked the receptionist, uh, is there any food available?
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:08.239
And they said, No, well, that place is closed, but there's a few restaurants just across the intersection and down the road.
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:10.480
So I thought, oh, cool.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:42.320
I stepped out of the hotel, made a left, and uh well, well, I presumed to be across the road, um woke up six, seven days later um with people dressed in lab coats peering over me, and I sort of thought to myself, this wasn't the hotel room I was booked into, was it?
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:59.119
And uh discovered shortly afterwards that um I'd been hit by someone um who'd driven off um into the night.
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:17.360
So amid that confusion, um yeah, I was uh I was one sort of in an immediate sense questioning that you know, can I walk?
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.039
Um, can people understand what I'm trying to say?
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:26.079
Um all those sorts of things that you'd be you know freaking out about.
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:58.960
Um but after my family had flown over from Australia and um they were able to you know recognize and understand what had taken place, then started the journey of you know the the physiological rehabilitation, um which took about six to eight weeks, still in Utah at a facility there um where they re-taught me how to you know function.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:13.039
And um as is with the case a lot of the time when you're in that sort of environment, um part of the rehabilitation process is movement.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:22.960
Um and they'd done all the brain scans and recognized the damage that had uh occurred.
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:40.800
Um so it was sort of a mix between you know making sure that I was able to articulate um my sentence structure as a normal person would, um, and also the physical side of things too.
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:52.719
Um and unfortunately, um a part of that involved massive amounts of medication.
00:39:53.119 --> 00:40:10.719
Um as you can imagine, over the months accumulating numerous operations and whatnot, um I formulated uh huge dependence on uh on these drugs.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:39.920
Um yeah, I I suppose it's one of those things where you know you can reconcile reconcile the the fact of what had happened um and justify the behaviors of you know taking the substance to mitigate you know the the angst or the discomfort that you're in.
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:50.079
Um but that was coupled with the sense of I don't really know who I am anymore.
00:40:50.400 --> 00:41:14.000
Um I'd lost the purpose of what I had been doing up until that point in my life, um and just substituted it with you know a day-to-day bunch of survival mechanisms, um which yeah, which didn't really end up functioning that well.
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:24.079
Um so yeah as you said in the intro, that sort of lasted for ten to twelve years.
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:50.000
I mean there's a pause for me because I think just not that I don't think I ever could imagine what that's like or understand what it was like, but there's a part of you that just goes and goes, Oh wow.
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:58.480
How much do you feel comfortable sharing about what that 10 years was like?
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.719
Because there's a lot in that, isn't there?
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:24.719
There's a there's obviously like you've said, you know, you've openly said around some dependency, and then there's also you also talked about the loss of identity, and each one of those are very big things in most people's lives, but combined together.
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:56.320
You know, can you give us you don't have to go as deep as you feel like you want to go, but I guess it's you know, what was that what was what was that like and examples for people out there that maybe because people listening to this are gonna, you know, that's the great thing with these conversations is there might be people that listen to this that have got a dependency or have got a loss of identity, and actually your story will be resonating with them.
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:31.920
You know, this is the great, you know, and this is why I appreciate you sharing your story because you know, we don't know whoever listens to this, you know, and that's the bit of the lovely part of me, and the bit I enjoy having these conversations because people listening, you never know who's gonna land with what I guess and just be curious again from a place of curiosity and share what you feel comfortable sharing, but what was that kind of that period of your life like?
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:42.880
And then how did you then obviously um I want to say the word to take control, but I don't know if that's that's that that lands well.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:51.119
But again, how did you you know m get okay, get from where you that that journey into this next chapter?
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:09.199
Yeah, I guess um there's there's certain sort of Phases that um that you that I I went through.
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:22.400
Um one of which was the initial denial um of what had happened um in the incident itself.
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:58.000
Um and to be so dismissive of that um was you know really really self-neglectful because I wasn't paying attention to um to the correct recovery process, um, which would have provided the self-discovery necessary um to reestablish who I was as a person.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:45:19.039
But what I did in fact was avoid the self-confrontation um in and of itself to say, look, this is potentially going to be the most life-changing experience um, if any, that you're going to have.
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:54.480
Um because at that point in time um I turned it into, as I said before, just a whole bunch or ball of defense mechanisms to to basically mitigate any harm or perceived, you know, catastrophic outcomes.
00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:06.239
The flip side to that, of course, is that you know the further down the rabbit hole you go, um the harder it is to get out.
00:46:07.119 --> 00:47:11.199
And that would mean not getting in touch with people who would have been massively helpful, um, not connecting to people who often enough are there to provide the best support and care, um, and gradually falling into a hole, um which I experienced in a way that it was so self-destructive, and it was all under the guise of you know uh maybe no one no one can understand, given what I had been previously and now nothing, and you know, no one walks into the street and gets hit by cars, doesn't happen, so people just won't be able to comprehend.
00:47:11.679 --> 00:47:38.559
Um and all those factors just led to more denial um and that complete disconnection um from what was in fact reality um led to a I think I said the other day a really good set of examples on how not to live your life.
00:47:38.719 --> 00:49:09.199
Um so and then I suppose in the the second phase was attempts that I'd formulated in order to re-establish myself, um and they were really misdirected, um trying to do things with my time, getting certifications um as a you know a personal trainer and helping people out, which others could see as you know someone doing the best that they could at that point in time, but they too were just things that I were doing um to avoid putting into context what had actually taken place, um so they just provide avenues for me to be doing things that weren't really meaningful to me, um and then I think after about the eighth year or so, um I put myself through such a ring of incidents and sort of re-traumatizing myself too.
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:52.320
Um not in a psychological way of remembering the incident because I couldn't, um, but reflecting back on elements of of my career that I couldn't relive again, um which caused like continual rumination about things that I couldn't change because you know the past couldn't have happened any other way because it didn't, and I was just trying to fix holes that you know I couldn't mend.
00:49:52.880 --> 00:50:12.320
Um so I think it was probably the third time I'd been woken up from uh overdosing on medication at a friend's place.
00:50:13.760 --> 00:50:29.039
Um I woke up again, um hospitalized, being told the stories about how someone had found me and how it sort of ruined their life.
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:44.559
Um it was enough damage to me that made me think, no, this is the point in time in which I need to change.
00:50:46.000 --> 00:51:45.519
Um and that sort of brought me to the third phase, um, which was having the support and accepting the goodwill of those I was associated with and my family and close friends to say now would be a really good time to go into full-time rehabilitation for as long as it takes in order to really recognize and understand who I was, what my purpose in life is, and to reset everything.
00:51:46.800 --> 00:52:21.679
Um, and I think through taking that step it was what I really needed, um, and sort of finds myself now nearly three years on able to to really appreciate that that took place um and how fortunate I am um being able to speak to it, um which is in like it's important, you know.
00:52:24.480 --> 00:52:27.440
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that.
00:52:27.760 --> 00:52:39.679
Um I could really feel you kind of a lot of the emotion through, even though you're halfway around the world and more via Zoom.
00:52:40.639 --> 00:52:51.679
Um I guess then where's that, you know, when what have you learned?
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:57.599
Is there any lessons that you've taken from that experience?
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:15.519
You say there over the last three years you kind of now you're and I I want to also move into what you're doing now because you you know you you're moving into helping support others now, so it's you know, there is a there's a happy ending, isn't it, to the you know, and the to this next chapter.
00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:17.599
But I guess is there any lessons about that?
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:22.639
Because you know, you broke it down really, really articulately the three phases you went through.
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:38.320
And you know, I guess for anyone listening now that it might not be them, it might be somebody they know that they've they're aware of, you know, that that they're in some kind of struggle.
00:53:38.880 --> 00:53:50.960
Um you know what what could you what can you take from your kind of experiences that you think would be helpful for others maybe listening?
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:56.320
Yeah, definitely.
00:53:56.559 --> 00:54:33.519
Um I think I think one of the the most fundamental things that I was able to pick up um while in um I guess you'd call it the the sanctuary of rehabilitation away from the world completely, um that it's gonna be okay.
00:54:34.320 --> 00:55:13.440
Um and I know that that gets said around the place continually, but I was only able to really recognize the power of that when I'd actually been killed temporarily, but waking up from that experience and then magnified countless other times being woken up again in the hospital environment.
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:28.480
Um through honesty with yourself, um and it's about accepting that reality before trying to change it.
00:55:30.079 --> 00:55:45.840
Um often enough, the gravity of what we're experiencing or perceiving isn't really reflective of uh what's actually happening.
00:55:46.639 --> 00:56:06.000
Um and it's through the experiences of um you know the challenge that we're faced with that brings us to the present.
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:46.559
So, yeah, often enough when speaking to people about how bad it is that I've wound up here, or you know, I'm not putting out this significant data that is in any way reflective of who I am, it's like, well, if you're in a position to be here right now, and we're talking about it, then what whatever you've overcome has been achieved.
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:50.960
Which is pretty awesome.
00:56:52.800 --> 00:57:16.400
Um so it's just about I guess reminding people of their you know their capacity um in any instance to provide the resilience to themselves, um which you know sort of supersedes everything.
00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:18.880
I love that.
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:27.440
So you've retrained.
00:57:28.559 --> 00:57:29.119
Yeah.
00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:31.519
So do you want to expand on that?
00:57:32.639 --> 00:57:34.079
Yeah, for sure.
00:57:34.400 --> 00:58:03.440
Um what I found was that um in speaking about the the pure elements of um what it feels like to be um completely fulfilled in an athletic sense and you know, rich with life and experiences and whatnot, um, for that to be taken away.
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:26.480
Is a really, really similar occurrence for people um in high performing sport, high performing business, um, and a lot of elements of day-to-day life because it's it juxtaposes what we're used to and then what isn't there anymore.
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:44.559
Um so what it found was that after I'd been able to speak about my journey um more openly and um getting people availability of myself.
00:58:44.719 --> 00:59:07.039
Um the amount of people who wanted to reach out um and share, you know, how they felt so alone and almost useless in a way was quite a frequent occurrence.
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:31.440
So what was most important for me was to reintroduce the skills that I was able to pick up along my way in professional sport at the highest level to then use um in basically what I try to do now.
00:59:32.079 --> 01:00:17.920
And that's encourage people to increase their awareness and utilize all those little things um which they probably took for granted during their you know their time at the top level or you know in different positions and re-engage because it's really um it's really important to feel as if um you know you're you're useful um because everyone is at the end of the day.
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:41.599
Um you know there's there's so many you know different strategies and ways we can break down finding your purpose, but it's a part of the the adventure that we're all on, which basically gives us the the purpose on a platter.
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:53.360
Um and it's just that reaching out and and reconnecting with people, which often enough provides the the ways in which we can facilitate that unfolding.
01:00:56.079 --> 01:00:58.800
Do you think that is some of the strength of the work you're doing now?
01:00:58.960 --> 01:01:20.400
Is almost you know, there's a lot resonating for me just in that way you were saying about how you know people don't even stop to think about you know what they've achieved or what the purpose is, or they're just sometimes it's going along with the grind, don't they?
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:26.480
So you know, bringing it back to that self-awareness can be really, really powerful, can't it?
01:01:28.960 --> 01:02:07.039
Yeah, it's huge to you know appreciate the magnitude of what we've been through in anyone's life um is massively empowering um because we can find so much utility and and um and strength from you know what we've been able to overcome, um whether that be you know in uh in sports or or business, um in anything.
01:02:07.599 --> 01:02:21.599
Um if we really sit back and appreciate um the most simple of things, um it makes the rest of it unfold a whole lot easier.
01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:25.599
Yeah, and it's interesting, there's a few things that come from that.
01:02:25.679 --> 01:02:32.159
I love the fact that you know this is this adventure we're all on, and I think it's a nice reframe of life, isn't it?
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:39.360
If you see it as an adventure, okay, what what's you know, it makes you come you know, I smile at that thinking, okay.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:43.280
And it certainly made me think, okay, that's exciting, actually, because it it feels exciting.
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:45.519
Well, what's next around the corner?
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:58.960
Or you know, you know, maybe without worrying about the outcome but the processor, but if it is an adventure, you know, let's just hope that it's uh open it up to the world to hope that the next adventure is going to be exciting.
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:04.639
Um yeah, I really like that.
01:03:05.199 --> 01:03:09.599
And you just and you've retrained, so you've is it psychotherapy?
01:03:09.679 --> 01:03:31.119
You've yeah, um for the time being, I think by the end of this year um I'll have my my qualifications in um in psychotherapy, or what I'd sort of prefer to to call general counseling.
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:31.920
Okay.
01:03:32.559 --> 01:03:59.519
And also addictive behavior therapy, um which is it's one of those things where if you're in the environment where um you're so frequently um bombarded with information about treatment modalities and whatever, um a lot of it becomes second nature.
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:19.760
Um, but what I'd found through these two disciplines um with the experience of what I'd had previously is my ability to really listen to people.
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:50.159
Um because if I'm just sit across from anyone and provide them with you know so much information that they're not capable of downloading or absorbing themselves, that's going to neglect their story and what they have to provide for themselves essentially to get the most out of what they they really want.
01:04:51.119 --> 01:05:19.599
Um so yeah, optimistically by I think by the end of this year I'll be able to um to really start um at least from a at least from a public perspective, be able to engage with people um in a uh in a really productive way.
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:55.679
Um what I don't want to do is walk into the scene, you know, acting as if I've got all this credibility, um, when in fact I'd prefer to just come in as myself in a position where I'm prepared to listen to anyone's story and find for them the best opportunities that they can get for themselves out of themselves.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:00.559
Love that.
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:01.840
I love that.
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:09.199
I guess being a little bit conscious of time.
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:56.159
I guess if I could just start bringing it together thinking about what you've learned about yourself through the many chapters um of your adventure, what would we, you know, if we think about what you've learned about yourself and then what you're now doing, helping support others, you know, is there anything that we've not really talked about around optimizing ourselves or optimizing others that you think is important to share before we kind of move into some deep advice stuff?
01:07:00.880 --> 01:08:22.399
Yeah, I suppose from a personal perspective, um, when it comes to the uh the optimization piece, it's pretty much for me at least identifying with the information that really is relevant um to you because um it's also easy to get bombarded by um so many different formulas and um different contexts or ways in which to do things, which is all great, but it's all just information and very dismissive of what it actually is to act out these things in real life, um so I suppose you could say that's just really getting to know yourself as a person is fundamentally, at least for me, key to to optimizing your own game.
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:26.479
Uh I I I couldn't I don't think I can agree more.
01:08:26.560 --> 01:08:42.560
And I think the other thing for me, what I heard from you earlier is, you know, and then supporting others, it's taking that time to listen to people understand, you know, helping others to maybe understand themselves and then what they can be doing to support themselves as well, isn't it?
01:08:42.800 --> 01:08:50.560
You know, I think that's what I I've I've certainly picked up from this conversation.
01:08:50.960 --> 01:09:05.119
Um so if we just delve into a little bit of advice or kind of summer sum it up rather than advice of kind of just maybe some things that people could consider.
01:09:05.680 --> 01:09:10.319
So we'll just ask a question: what are three practical things that people could try today?
01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:58.880
Yeah, I think um probably one for me essentially is um when you get the chance to reflect, um whether it's you know a daily practice or even weekly, identify the behaviors that you can see yourself repeating that'll actually work or have worked, and normally they're a really good indicator of what's actually going to function for you.
01:09:59.119 --> 01:09:59.439
Okay.
01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:05.760
Um, and also a really good example of what not to do, okay.
01:10:06.640 --> 01:10:21.760
Which sounds remarkably simple, but uh often enough there are things that we just go amiss, like uh that didn't count, or oh that was really cool, and then the next time you do it, it's just by fortune.
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:29.199
But it's not because it you know, if it's effective, normally it's going to be functional and it works, so that's important.
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:47.600
Um secondly, I'd say uh allowing yourself to giving yourself permission to get curious and ask questions about why I'm thinking a particular way.
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:54.960
Um because often enough our perception leads us to believe things that are just stupid.
01:10:55.760 --> 01:11:14.960
Um, we've got our cortex so well figured out that we can tell ourselves all kind of magical things, but in fact, a lot of it is bullshit, so we need to you know uh ascertain um what's effective, what's not.
01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:39.359
Um and yeah, I suppose thirdly would be um get some intentionality, um which works into the whole purpose deal.
01:11:39.520 --> 01:12:04.880
Um if you find what you are actually intentional about doing, um another one of those things that sounds quite blasé or whatever, but as a gut instinct, um forget about what the the brain can analyze and you know provide data for and all that sort of jazz.
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:24.000
If you know internally, you actually really know, uh which some might call just the general reality check, but it's about what's uh what's really lighting that fire for you.
01:12:24.159 --> 01:12:30.960
Um, and often enough that's going to suggest you know where the true intention is.
01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:42.640
Um so giving yourself this the sort of time to to just you know sit back and reflect on where that sits for you is important.
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:47.359
I I completely agree, and I think it all does start.
01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:53.760
There's a there's a prerequisite of giving you you almost giving yourself permission to time to reflect sometimes as well, isn't there?
01:12:54.960 --> 01:13:07.279
You know, we live in these lives of busyness and where busyness is often seen as a badge of honour, and it can be seen as a badge of honour to be, oh yeah, I'm really busy, you know.
01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:16.319
Um sometimes just giving yourself permission to have that that time to sit, reflect, and ask yourselves those good questions.
01:13:17.039 --> 01:13:18.720
Now I really love them.
01:13:19.439 --> 01:13:31.359
I was when I was listening to them, and where I see the power in what you've just said is we do loads of things unconsciously, don't we?
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:43.359
And we have these habits unconsciously by actually taking the time, like you've said, to kind of become aware to bring them into our conscious awareness and analyse sometimes.
01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:49.039
Oh, actually, this is a helpful trait that's keep this, or what on earth am I doing this for?
01:13:49.520 --> 01:13:56.000
Maybe that's the or you know, being curious about why you are doing certain things by bringing them into the conscious.
01:13:56.399 --> 01:13:58.479
No, really powerful and agree with all of them.
01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:00.159
I think they're really lovely.
01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:07.359
So, what's one principle you wish every leader understood?
01:14:09.920 --> 01:14:47.359
Um Yeah, I suppose it's it's really, really difficult um for people in leadership, particularly, you know, um as you said before, these days when we're continually bombarded by um information.
01:14:47.680 --> 01:15:12.239
Um so it's quite possible for you know, whether it's employees or you know, team members that you're, you know, um in a leadership position of to be you know influenced by different forms of information.
01:15:13.680 --> 01:15:25.359
Um so I guess it's just important to really stick with the process.
01:15:26.399 --> 01:15:52.880
Um which is one of those things that it's sort of it gets mega thrashed, um you know, in most sports these days, um and just in the whole global sphere, um it's just that word process.
01:15:54.720 --> 01:16:14.640
But I've found within myself that it's only throughout that process that you're able to find the the ways in which to actually modulate or change what's required, um, and that's where the gold is.
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:32.960
Um so as mundane or you know monotonous as it might appear to Yeah, but if we put a sexy title on it, create passion for the process or something, then it'll then it'll yeah, that's what I'm saying.
01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:37.199
But but the I everything you're saying, I think, is really strong.
01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:47.359
And I think it is, you know, and that's the you know, a lot of people are looking for the you know, you've just said that actually the gold is in that, you know.
01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:59.520
The gold sometimes it, you know, we've already and most people listening to this are already doing that, they're just not searching for the gold in that, they're searching for the gold in something different, you know.
01:16:59.840 --> 01:17:02.000
Definitely so I think it's really good.
01:17:02.239 --> 01:17:07.680
Just before we wrap it up, is there anything we've not covered that you feel that you'd like to share?
01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:10.560
You can obviously say no, don't worry.
01:17:12.479 --> 01:17:32.640
Um maybe just on a last point, um, which for me counts across the globe for everyone, is not to rely on motivation alone.
01:17:33.439 --> 01:18:04.000
Okay, it's a really good way to isolate yourself, um identify and recognize the behaviors that are going to make life easier because it's through doing that that we be happy in ourselves and reflect that to other people, and that gets reciprocated, so it just becomes a more user-friendly environment for everyone, I guess.
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:07.760
No, I love that, I love that too.
01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:16.880
So the people who are listening and want to follow you and know more about you, where can they where do you hang out?
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:18.560
Where can they follow you?
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:40.000
Um I've actually yet to release this website, and part of that is because I don't want to I'm reluctant to attempt saturating the environment with too much information.
01:18:40.079 --> 01:18:44.560
So I'm trying to trim it down and keep it as simplistic as possible.
01:18:44.720 --> 01:18:45.039
Yeah.
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:52.319
Um, but when I do so, I'll be able to reach out to you and yes, yeah, let me know and we we we can add it onto the pod.
01:18:52.399 --> 01:18:53.279
That's fine.
01:18:53.600 --> 01:18:58.720
Um otherwise, yeah.
01:18:58.800 --> 01:19:04.880
Um I think on on Facebook it's just Maddie Lloyd.
01:19:04.960 --> 01:19:07.199
There should be a picture of a cyclist on there.
01:19:07.520 --> 01:19:11.199
I'll add all the links in with everything that you want them to have, yeah.
01:19:11.279 --> 01:19:11.840
Don't worry.
01:19:12.159 --> 01:19:12.640
Yeah.
01:19:12.800 --> 01:19:19.039
Um but I'll be able to fill people in on um what it is that that I'll be doing.
01:19:19.279 --> 01:19:44.000
And um, of course, you know, if anyone wants to to reach out to me, I'm more than you know comfortable to to speak to people, um, particularly about issues that they're facing, um, and ways in which they can find you know the best you know uh the best ways through it.
01:19:44.239 --> 01:19:54.640
Um and often enough that's that's the first step is just reaching out, having someone to listen and to recognize what it is that they're going through.
01:19:54.720 --> 01:19:56.880
So, you know, that's always important.
01:19:57.279 --> 01:19:59.680
I agree, and that's that's an amazing thing.
01:19:59.840 --> 01:20:01.840
Um what are you working on next?
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:03.920
Sounds like the website.
01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:10.720
Um yeah, um, as I said, it'll be it'll be relatively simplistic.
01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:53.279
Um and um once I've uh once I've been able to accrue enough um I suppose practical work that's you know obviously documented and um taking care of the uh the psychotherapy side of things, I'll be able to, you know, uh get amongst it in um in a recognised or registered fashion, um which will be productive, hopefully.
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:54.960
Yes, no, definitely so.
01:20:55.039 --> 01:20:56.800
I think uh I think you're gonna be awesome.
01:20:56.880 --> 01:20:57.680
I generally do.
01:20:57.760 --> 01:21:03.119
I think I think you've I think you are awesome already.
01:21:03.199 --> 01:21:12.720
I think on what you what you're gonna go on to create and what you are looking to do, I think will be very helpful in the world.
01:21:13.039 --> 01:21:14.880
Very, very helpful in the world.
01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:20.800
Is it one final challenge you'd like to set our audience and our guests and our listeners?
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:26.159
One final challenge.
01:21:26.960 --> 01:21:32.159
Um This is actually the best one of all.
01:21:37.039 --> 01:21:45.600
It's it sounds ridiculous, but to sit with yourself.
01:21:46.640 --> 01:21:53.840
No objective, no music, no soundtrack, no mantra, whatever.
01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:57.279
Just sit there.
01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:20.640
Even at the point where you don't have to time it, acknowledge that space and from what you get inside is often enough to get you through you know the next day, the next half hour, whatever it might be.
01:22:21.119 --> 01:22:26.399
Um acknowledging the self is crucial.
01:22:30.000 --> 01:22:31.279
Beautiful.
01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:34.560
Marty, thanks ever so much.
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:37.920
I've really enjoyed it to all of our listeners.
01:22:39.199 --> 01:22:42.399
Oh mate, honestly, this is uh I've been so looking forward to this.
01:22:42.479 --> 01:22:45.520
It's been it's been I'm really really looking forward to getting it out.
01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:49.760
And for our listeners, make sure you are following when you will follow this.
01:22:49.840 --> 01:22:52.479
We'll all your episodes will come straight into you.
01:22:52.800 --> 01:22:57.279
Um any questions, queries, anything, feel free to reach out.
01:22:57.439 --> 01:22:59.359
Any feedback, feel free to reach out.
01:22:59.600 --> 01:23:01.920
For now, Matty, listen, thank you ever so much.
01:23:02.079 --> 01:23:04.239
It's been a privilege to have you on.
01:23:04.399 --> 01:23:08.960
It's been a privilege to to listen to your story and your honesty.
01:23:09.039 --> 01:23:09.840
So thank you.
01:23:11.439 --> 01:23:12.960
Thank you so much, Eddie.
01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:14.159
Thank you.
