Dr. Andrew Campbell:
00:00
instead of having to take pills, progress your life not feeling well not being cool you can be. I know that sounds hokey because it's an old adage, but really, every person should be able to live their lives fully and ensure it what they make of their life. And this is preventing them but it can be taken care of and done away
Emily Kiberd:
00:21
with what's up lovely ladies, Dr. Emily hybird. Here with thyroid strong podcast. I am a chiropractor, a mama to Elvis in Brooklyn and I have Hashimotos what is currently in remission. On this podcast I share simple, actionable steps with a little bit of tough love on how to lose that stubborn weight, get your energy, getting your life back and finally learn how to work out without burning out living with Hashimotos. Dr. Andrew Campbell was educated in Switzerland, where he graduated from preparatory school at age 14 and first in his class. He then completed college in three years. After graduating from medical school, Dr. Campbell trained at the Orlando Regional Medical Center and at the Medical College of Georgia. He was Medical Director of the medical center for immune and toxic disorders in Houston for more than 20 years. Dr. Campbell has published over 100 studies in peer reviewed medical journals and chapters in medical textbooks. Dr. Campbell has received awards from many organizations national and international. He lectures regularly at national and international medical conferences. He has lectured at medical schools including Harvard Medical School and Oxford University in England. He is currently the editor in chief of two peer reviewed medical journals, editor of five medical journals. And Dr. Campbell is a medical advisor for my Michael lab, a laboratory dedicated to serum antibody testing to mycotoxins. I hope you enjoy this episode. I really loved how deep we went, in terms of case studies and transformations of patients and just how many 1000s of patients he's helped over the years. Dr. Andrew Campbell, welcome to thyroid strong podcast. It is so great to have you here.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
02:20
Thank you for having me. Yeah, so
Emily Kiberd:
02:21
I've done a lot of research. And I've probably have watched more of your interviews than any other guests that I've had on. And I'd love to start so everyone who listened to the podcast has Hashimotos or a thyroid condition. And a lot of them don't know that exposure to mold and mycotoxins mimic symptoms of Hashimotos. And I'd loved for you to just start with what is the difference between mold and mycotoxins because I think a lot of us have heard mold, but mycotoxin might be a new verbiage and a new word that women have never heard of
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
02:56
molds are everywhere, mold spores, they're all over the planet, or there's recently they found it in the space station. Even up there. You know, when you go to the store and you buy a packet of seeds because you want to plant something and then you get a pot and you put some soil in it and then water the seeds and after a while you get something growing. Same way molds are the spores are everywhere. But it's not until they're wet for 24 hours or more that they start to spoil late with means grow. So wet means not moist, not humid, but actually water damaged. And so this point about molds and mycotoxins that mold spores carry mycotoxins with them. It's kind of like mold had gun and the mycotoxins are the bullet. Yeah. Why does that happen? And how did this happen? For example, many years ago, Dr. Alexander Fleming in Scotland was his doctor. He had two dishes in his laboratory, one had Staphylococcus aureus, a very nasty bacteria that causes diseases, and the other plate had Penicillium notato. On it, he left for vacation forgot to cover them when he came back from vacation. The Brits call it holiday, not vacation, and he noticed that my goodness, the Staphylococcus aureus was dead, so something that killed it. Six, seven years of experimentation, we finally got the first antibiotic called penicillin from Penicillium. So why didn't spores carry mycotoxins is to make sure that no other organism competes for that food at once. Survival of the fittest. Right now, the difference is, your hair is 100 microns thick, everybody's here about 100 microns. mold spores are two to four microns so they can go to the deepest parts of the sinuses from breathing and into your lungs and then go right into blood and into the brain. mycotoxins are 0.1 Lung microns, meaning they're the size of a virus, just like COVID and any of the other viruses. So they're very small, but they are the ones that cause problems. So the difference between one mold spores are living things, they have cell walls, they're alive, etc. Like, the toxins are toxins. They're not alive, mercury, their group of molecules, et cetera, et cetera. So all those things are basically one is alive and the other is a toxin. And because it's a toxin, it's very dangerous.
Emily Kiberd:
05:34
Got it. So how does someone get exposed? Because a lot of women don't know how do they get exposed to a mycotoxin.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
05:40
Anytime you're exposed to mold, you're exposed to mycotoxins every mold makes not only one microstructure and make several micro toxins, which if you're exposed to for, just as an example, to stack the buffers, which is the black frameless black mold, psyche, boxers makes several mycotoxins there's many, many mycotoxins, but there's only about a dozen or so that affect humans. Others affect agriculture, animals, ants, insects, etc. But there's only about a dozen that affect humans.
Emily Kiberd:
06:13
Yeah. So for the women who have been diagnosed with an autoimmune condition, who are just thinking, Oh, it's genetic, I just supposed to take this medication, there's nothing I can do, because a lot of them, that's what they've been told. I think it's important to know that if they've been exposed to mold, which is very likely, because there's a lot of water damaged buildings in the world that maybe mycotoxin exposure is a trigger or contributing to their autoimmune condition.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
06:42
Correct. And if you look at what's happening with global warming, the climate floods killing a load of more than 1300 people now in Pakistan, the issue of this new hurricane, destroying all kinds of things in Puerto Rico last year, floods all over Germany that they hadn't had hundreds and hundreds of years. I mean, there's been a lot of climate change, and that climate change, promotes more rain, more flooding, etc, of what public buildings, halls, schools, etc. And so we're getting more and more exposed to mold growth, because of the wetness and the water damage affecting us and water damage is worldwide, it's not only uncertain places, it's worldwide, and that water damage, makes mold and then from the mold, we get the mycotoxins and all these people with these disorders, the World Health Organization calls mycotoxins the great masquerader of this century, because people get they think they have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, fireroad issues, et cetera. But the real cause are mycotoxins.
Emily Kiberd:
07:56
Do you think someone can live in a water damage building or space and still do certain things and feel okay, maybe they're not fully healed. Maybe they're not removing the mycotoxins fully from their body, because I have a lot of women that like, I don't have money to remediate. I can't move at this time. Just my situation is like, what do you tell that person?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
08:19
That is the most difficult part of what I have to do as a medical doctor? And that is the first rule of toxicology is get the patient away from the toxin, or the toxin away from the patient? How do you tell a person who may not have the economic or situational possibilities? You've got to leave where you are? And I've had to say this to people all over this country and in many other countries? And what do you do Sam, a person and I have, I work out of somewhere and, and my wife has to work and we have two kids, or three kids or whatever, and we're making ends meet? What do you mean, move? What do you mean, throughout all the towels and sheets and blankets and pillows and buy new ones? Because they're all infested? How do you do that? Some studies even are saying now this is a public health problem. And governments need to get involved and help people. So how do you do it? Very, very, very difficult.
Emily Kiberd:
09:19
So, so you had some patients, I'm sure many, many patients that have been diagnosed with an autoimmune condition and you address the mycotoxin exposure, and they get better Correct. Can you share maybe a patient case
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
09:35
Sure, approaching almost 15,000 patients that I've treated for autoimmune disorders and mold and mycotoxins, so molds cause an infection, which is easy to take care of, because there's medication for that prescription medication, mycotoxins just like mercury or glyphosate or Roundup or any of those things. There's no medication, you have to go through a certain process to regrettable and So certain patients, typical mother, 36 years old, married with three boys. So she's busy, busy, busy, and she has a job and she's tired, she's fatigued. She's doesn't sleep well, just to read every paragraph twice to understand it. She has a little bouts here there of anxiety and a little depression. She also tells me that she has these horrible mood swings, and she discussed it with her husband that you think it could be multi says No way, which a lot of women jelly and comes to see me, I felt like the thyroid that slightly enlarge, and you palpate the thyroid from behind. You don't grow like this, you go behind the person and do this to do a good job to do it correctly. And then I asked the you know, your symptoms are symptoms of thyroid bubbles. Oh, yeah, I went to see my regular doctor and he did the steroid function tests on me. And he told me that first time that there was not abnormal enough. And then several months later, I went back to him again, I was feeling the same things and it kept on kept on. He gave me a Synthroid, which is L four levels Iraq's and something that felt a little better, but it didn't quite do it very much. I felt maybe 10 or 20%. That rest 80% still remains. So I heard that you do stuff about Molson, do you think I have moles? I said, Well, do you have a leak in your house anywhere? And if you really think about it today, we have a lot more places where we could have leaks. Long time ago, there was one bathroom in the house. Now there are several bathrooms half bath, washer and dryers in the house. There is a refrigerator spits out ice and iced water. And you have a dishwasher and all these things, all these things can possibly leak. So yeah, she found the leak. First of all, she found that her basement had mold. The other thing her roof had leaked. And the third one is her husband found a leak in one of the pipes and one of the bathrooms. And so he decided to fix that himself. Make a long story short, that was how she presented. I checked her for mycotoxins it's a blood test. The urine test only gives you what you ate that day. It's an excretion. And remember the mycotoxins of 0.1 microns the same size as a virus. You don't test the virus in urine, you test it by blood tests. So if you want Epstein Barr Virus, or any other kind of virus, you do an antibody Blitz. So the same thing for micro toxins. You do an antibody blood says she lit up like a Christmas tree. I told her that if her husband comes out, which he had very hesitant to do, I would see him for nothing. But he had to let me draw some blood he acquiesced. It came in had his blood drawn. He too had. And then when I was talking to him, not his words, to let me ask you something as a doctor, do you have this? Do you have this? You have this? Do you have this? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So obviously, he was trying to mask his symptoms, but he too had symptoms. Men typically do not like to talk about their symptoms, no matter what age even mine. And so I treated them about how did I treat them? First of all, I told the woman, let me check your thyroid with an antibody test. Sure enough, she had an autoimmune thyroiditis? Well, we know and we've known this for about 2530 years that mycotoxins cause an autoimmune reaction. Okay. So autoimmune diseases such as Hashimotos thyroiditis, such as MS, multiple sclerosis, and as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. It's a reaction, it's not a disease. That's the big difference. The disease you're treated with the usual medications that are used cortisone and those kinds of medications and for thyroid, etc. A reaction means if you take away what's causing the reaction, the reaction goes away. So in this case, I told the woman to continue taking her Synthroid and start treating her like her toxins. And I'll get into treatment later if you'd like. But I had treated the mycotoxins and after one month, I took her off the Synthroid, she felt much better, felt much, much better. And after six months, we checked for thyroid antibodies. They were gone.
Emily Kiberd:
14:41
Did she move out of her space? Did she change her space?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
14:43
That's the key question. Yes, she would move in with her mother and dad for the rest of time, because with a mold inspector came and although it's not regulated, some mold inspectors are Good and others are not so good. And there's a whole set of problems with this one said, You've got mold and you've got it in several areas. So that's when, because it was starting to affect the three boys. She decided, okay, it's okay to deal with me and my husband, we're adults, but not the children. I'm moving to mom's. You can come with me or not. And they all went to mom, because mom didn't live that far away. She got maybe 20 minutes, 25 minutes away. So they all move, Mom and Dad stayed on the one floor and the rest of them stayed in two bedrooms upstairs. It was difficult. It was a challenge. But during this time, they were fixing the leaks and remediating the house. And then they moved back in. This was a year ago, I last heard from her. And July, that she just sent me a little email, telling me how great she feels, and how the boys are doing and how her husband's doing and just as I get those emails, I get emails from patients from 20 to 25 years ago still, and it was so nice to hear from her, but she's fine. Now. What was the thing? One, she removed the cross she got away from what was causing it. Second, she was treated for mycotoxins. And there, she followed the directions.
Emily Kiberd:
16:20
Yeah. Can we talk about the testing? Because I think people have heard of the urine mycotoxin test. Obviously, you mentioned that doing it through bloodwork through serum draw is the gold standard, the gold
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
16:36
standard, and it's been that way this test for mycotoxins and blood has been around for over 25 years. It's not a new test. And what does it's very precise, it's very accurate. So what it tells me is, how much of each of 12 mycotoxins do you have in your body currently, that's what you want to know, what is my body dealing with? And on the other side, let me give you a for instance of a study because I'm very evidence based. If you tell me you had uncle Ralph, who lost all his hair, and then he rubbed walnut oil all over his scalp for a month in his hair grew back. Very happy drunkle Ralph, but that does not say that that's evidence you can't go out and tell everybody to do that. So evidence based medicine shows that last year in July, Dr. Frey and his group published a study showing that 91% of all milk that you drink from cows cow's milk that you get at the supermarket 91% contains mycotoxins. What does that mean? We can have cereal or milk products or yogurt or whatever cream or ice cream on it? No. Why? Because it's below what is called TDI tolerable daily inventory. And that's regulated very strictly by the FDA. The E FSA, which is European Food Safety Authority, United Nations committees and the committee's in the World Health Organization. How much of this is allowed and Sue? It's very little, it's parts per billion. I'm a visual, I don't know what a part per billion means. So I ask a physicist to explain to me what what is a part per billion? How do I visualize that? He says, Take 100 football fields, cover them with golf balls, remove one golf ball, that's a part per billion. Wow. That made sense to you? Well, the government regulates sent peanuts, how I look the peanuts have mycotoxins, coffee, beans, et cetera, et cetera. There's a lot of these, but these are regulated. And there's so little that it's 44 billion, and our body just excretes. That right away. It excretes that neuron. So what you're testing for in urine is what your body's getting rid of. So if you did a urine test Monday, yesterday, and you did another test Monday, next week, or Monday, the third week, you'd have three different results. In blood. It's an antibody test this very precise. How do you test for hepatitis A, B, and C? Just by an antibody test? How do you test for Epstein Barr cytomegalovirus all the viruses all the things that are very small, like a mycotoxin. You test through an antibody test, because it's very precise. It's used in all hospitals. And by the way, the laboratory my micro lab and why I'm why co lab because Miko means mold and let us mycology is the study so m y single line microlab is now getting has three studies going on with mycotoxins, one on autism and two others studies both from different university all three are from medical university medical centers. The other two are on mast cell activation syndrome. And I'm teaching mast cell activation syndrome at a medical school and send the San Francisco area starting in October, and this is for MDS and DRS because it's an accredited medical school. The point is, is that mycotoxins caused a lot of issues with autoimmunity. So autoimmune disorders, and the most common one in women is Hashimotos thyroiditis. The most common one in young people, especially males, is ms, multiple sclerosis. So you can actually cure multiple sclerosis. And this was done in a study at Rutgers University School of Medicine. They said 60% of MS is crossed by microphones. That's a very high percentage. That is, and Tufts University came out on autism, Tufts University School of Medicine up in Boston 60% of autism is crossbar. And the great thing is about all these autoimmune disorders, including Hashimotos, HyProCure, instead of having to take pills, progress, your life not feeling well, not being cool you can be I know that sounds hokey, because it's an old adage. But really, every person should be able to live their lives fully, and ensure it what they make of their life. And this is preventing them, but it can be taken care of, and got done, done away with.
Emily Kiberd:
21:36
So the Michael lab, let's say someone gets that draw, and they have the antibodies. How do you start to treat that person?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
21:46
First of all, anyone who does that test, it's a free zoom call with me to go over their test results.
Emily Kiberd:
21:53
I'm sitting on my kitchen counter upstairs waiting to get done.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
21:57
And so that helps them start to understand the process. Now, what how do you treat it? There's two parts to this. And it's a paradigm it's not a protocol. Protocol means one size fits all. So if it's a 25 year old female that weighs 110 pounds, or a 55 year old female that weighs 180 pounds, the treatment is the same. Well, that's not possible. That doesn't make sense. It has to be tailored to that person. Some people have more this mental fog issue, autoimmune sleep, migraine, those kind of things. Well, they fit into more of these kinds of treatments. What if it's all gut and a lot of gut issues? Well, that fits into this, okay, so you treat it different, but there's certain things that are established one is there certain very good and necessary vitamins and nutrients. And we've got to take one example, vitamin d3 is vital for the thyroid, for normal tharla Even if you don't have Hashimotos. Now once you have Arcimoto is even more important. So there's these supplements and or that and vitamins that should take and then on the other side, how do you kill and get rid of the mold spores that carry the mycotoxins you need an antifungal? What is an anti fungal spore knocks hydrocortisone? I've used it in almost 15,000 patients no problems. Everybody gets worried about liver enzymes. I did too when I first started. But after 15,000 Not seeing anything happened to the liver. I said, we'll check the liver every couple of months. It's not a problem. The other issue about treatment is what these mycotoxins cross the blood brain barrier that's well established in medicine that they affect the first place is the brain. And second, they start producing antibodies, antibodies against myelin, which copes, nerves, antibodies against the thyroid antibodies. So how do you get rid of antibodies, everybody gets on the internet and hears about all these binders, dates been tried and binders in laboratories they've used cheap piglets, chickens, rabbits, various other there's not a single study showing that it works in humans. I'm not going to give somebody a patient of mine who's put one of their most precious possessions in my hand, their health, something that has no proof behind it. That's like walnut oil for Uncle rouse head adductor is if there's no evidence, so I make sure that they take the right things where there is absolute evidence, medical science, evidence that it works, that it does what it's supposed to. Yeah. And then six months later, they're fine.
Emily Kiberd:
24:46
And the tests the my MiCollab How do you know if it's since his antibody reaction if it's a past exposure from 20 years ago, or a current exposure or maybe other than just like taking a subjective history of where it is in the timeline of their life?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
25:01
Sure. So in what we call microbiology, there's four pathogens, bacteria, viruses, parasites and pathogenic fungi. And let me mention pathogenic fungi. One fungus, Aspergillus is now to infect the thyroid. And the 3d symptoms are fever in large thyroid. So in some people even gets difficult to swallow. And third, huge fatigue, and that's an infection. So these four things infect people. Not only that, but there's medications for them. So if you have a urinary tract infection, or bronchitis, or virus or whatever, you can treat those with prescription medications. Let's go over here to another area. It's called toxicology. Toxicology is just molecules. They're not alive, they don't have cell walls. Now in pathogens and for pathogens, if you were infected I had when I was a kid, I'd had chickenpox. Right now as he tests my blood, I have antibodies to chickenpox. And that's from long time ago. And that's for living things. They leave that footprint and your immune system. So I have IgG antibodies to chickenpox over here, toxicology. You only have it when it's inside you and affecting you. For example, if you look at shampoo, which everybody uses on their hair and scalp is full of pores because we sweat through our skull, there's every bottle of shampoo has I don't tend to 20 long words that are chemicals but we don't get affected by it. They don't make us sick. We don't have antibodies against only when a chemical or a toxin it gets into mercury, arsenic, pesticides, mycotoxins get into you, that your immune system starts producing immunoglobulin G antibodies IgG antibodies. So the test means that currently your immune system is fighting these mycotoxins now couldn't've say six months ago, for two years you lived in a moldy apartment and then six months after you moved out, you could be colonized by mold. How do we know that? For example, Dr. panico chairman of the department of ear nose and surgery at the Mayo Clinic did a study on 210 patients who suffered from chronic sinus problem he took 210 of them all 210 to the operating room, removed and cleaned out their sinuses and scent. What he found in there to the lab had said what do you see 96% was molt he actually petition that the word chronic sinusitis be changed to chronic fungal sinusitis. So we know it lives in your sinuses, and people have sinus problems. Where else it goes into the lungs. And from the lungs. It spreads primarily to the brain. A lot of people talk about it goes to the liver and the gut and all those things. No, there's no evidence actually there are studies that show that the gut microbiome detoxes mycotoxins, so actually destroys. So all these people who take binders, they're actually doing themselves a disfavor and for longing, the disorder and I get about five or 10 emails a day that I've been on binders for two, three years, and I'm still sick, and so on and so forth. If it worked, I wouldn't be using it. But there's no evidence there's nothing. So what you do is your tests show that now there's two parts to the test. One is the IgG antibodies, which means at that time, your immune system is fighting off a toxic reaction, the other is IGE IGE. antibodies to mycotoxins indicate mast cell activation. And so we have these two tests and that's why University Medical Centers are using the IGE test for mycotoxins as a marker for mast cell activation syndrome.
Emily Kiberd:
29:13
For people who don't know what mast cell activation syndrome I know when I was first diagnosed, and I was told that I was like, I have never heard that. Can you share what that is and what some of the symptoms may be?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
29:23
Sure. Mast cells are what regulate your allergies say you are allergic to shrimp and unbeknownst to you, you a part of a shrimp in some kind of PE or something and you break out in hives, that's an mast cell. What they do is it releases Heparin, which makes your blood thinner and it releases histamine, which makes you have hives and itch everywhere and your throat scratchy and all these things. However, an IGE antibody to micro toxin makes those mast cells release other things as well. And those other things are what we call pro inflammatory cytokines. Cytokines. ABOR are what regulate the immune system, it's kind of like tells your immune system to slow down or stop or the opposite. It tells your immune system to go fight and fight harder and recruit cells, etc. So skin problems, psychiatric problems, anxiety, depression are very common issues with the gut, lot of gut problems with mast cell activation syndrome. So those are the most common types of symptoms you get from muscle activation. And then
Emily Kiberd:
30:38
how does mold exposure lead to that
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
30:42
because molds carry mycotoxins right. And it's the mycotoxins that trigger mast cell activation and rate all this inflammation that goes throughout the whole body. And so that's the mechanism.
Emily Kiberd:
30:56
So if you treat the mycotoxins, you get rid of the mast cell activation,
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
30:59
right, and actually, Washington University School of Medicine Department of gastroenterology, Dr. Weinstock, Leonard Weinstock and I have published a study already on this, and we're publishing two more and how IGE antibodies to mycotoxins trigger mast cell activation, and we have actual pictures of people scan and various things.
Emily Kiberd:
31:22
It feels very isolating, right, because there's so many water damaged buildings, climate change, more flooding. There's older buildings, more buildings with like flat tops with a water sits and doesn't drain. And I mean, I know this summer, I went into a gym, there was water damage, I went into the CVS, there was water damage, it just feels like it's everywhere. And it can feel isolating, and it can create that fight or flight response, like, am I gonna get exposed? And obviously, there's the treatment aspect. But how can we also strengthen our terrain such that we don't just totally go into brain fog and can't finish our sentence when we are exposed?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
32:02
Interestingly, a lot of my patients who are well, and then it takes me about six months to treat someone with mycotoxin issues, they get well, and they'll tell me, this is the little emails I get. I went to visit my best friend and I don't know where. And within five minutes, I had to leave her house because I knew there were mold. She didn't know she didn't see if she didn't know where but she started feeling bad. I've heard that about I've been to certain restaurants. And I had to leave within five minutes because I knew there was mold there are shops are aware of so yes, there's a lot of water damage everywhere. Now, how do you make sure you don't get affected? Once you've been treated, you're overweight, you're fine. Now you're living your life as you wish, what you do is you keep taking certain supplements, not a lot, just certain supplements that keep your immune system at best condition. Just like if you want to be your body to be in a great condition, you go to a gym, or some place like this, and workout and then your body after some time gets really you like how you look and the clothes fit better. And all those kind of nice things. It's the same with the immune system, you've got to keep it sharp. So if you're going to go I need it at the fast food places three times a week. And you're going to have two packs of Coca Cola overall, you know, and that inner every week, and eat poorly and not exercise very much, if any, and do all those things your immune system is going to slide downward. However, if you do choose your foods wisely, if you do, make sure you at least walk daily for 35 minutes, that's not a big walk and your pets will love it. And if you take certain supplements that strengthen your immune system, then you can walk into a CVS and be there 20 minutes getting things and walk out and your immune system will flick these off like a nasty fly bothering you.
Emily Kiberd:
34:07
I know you mentioned vitamin D, are there any other supplements you could share to strengthen the immune system in the way that you're speaking vitamin
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
34:14
d three 5000 units you don't need more is not always better. Right? So 5000 is enough. I would also make sure that you take vitamin A good B complex vitamin and I can share with you where I get these things if you so wish. But a good bit complex has been shown that our diets today even if you buy organic, and have your own farm and I don't know why we're deficient in B vitamins and whatever the government tells you is the maximum limit forget it's like 10 times that. That's an important one magnesium most of us are low in magnesium or marginally wrote low and mag magnesium is involved in over 350 Different enzymatic actions within the body that without magnesium doesn't work. You can't get anything out of protein. If you don't have enough magnesium. That's just one small example. Yeah, so, gotta take magnesium. And I always recommend that a person take three milligrams of melatonin at bedtime. Now everybody thinks that melatonin is for sleep. And yes, it will help sleep. However, a number of studies done at the University of Texas San Antonio branch have shown that it helps detoxify the brain, because regardless of what you do, you go outside, there's diesel particles in the air from trucks, your shampoos, things, cleansers, where people used to clean their kitchen, their clothes, or their shoes or bathrooms with all those are chemical products. And your brain is very sensitive. And melatonin helps give those things not affect your brain.
Emily Kiberd:
36:09
Yeah, do you have a favorite source or brand for your the magnesium in the BB complex?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
36:14
Yes, I don't have any interests of any kind, monetary or otherwise. And these companies, I've got to be upfront, let's you always I use clear laps with a K for melatonin and vitamin d3. For the B complex. It's called Vita B. And for magnesium, I use a company called Jigsaw Health. And it's called mag SR T. I published an article about 10 years ago or so on magnesium. I have over 100 publications and medical journals that have chapters in medical textbooks. But this one, when I wrote it was very interesting for me because if you take magnesium that peaks in your blood and two hours, and two hours later you excrete it. So close last a short time. This Mag SRT, magnesium sustained release lasts eight to 10 hours. So you only need one of the morning, one of the which is great. Lastly, very important to have a good, solid micro file. We are you and I are made up of about 35 trillion cells. The microbiome is 130 side, we have 23,000 genes, the microbiome has 8,000,080% of our immune system is in our gut. It makes all kinds of neurotransmitters. And for example, if you have a good microbiome, proteins are made with amino acids. Amino acids are like brick, and the protein is the house. l tryptophan is an essential amino acid meaning we don't make it we have to get it from outside chocolate, meat, eggs. So l tryptophan then becomes in a normal good microbiome gut become serotonin are happy neurotransmitter. That's what the psychiatrists use for depression. And from serotonin, you derive melatonin, so you sleep well. Depressed people don't sleep well, and feel off. So if you have a good microbiome that's essential, and I always recommend my patients take megaspore biotic and that's from microbiome labs.
Emily Kiberd:
38:24
Do you ever start treatment? If someone hasn't moved out of the space, that is the source?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
38:30
I don't because it's totally ineffective, and I don't want them to waste money. And a lot of people money is an issue these days. So why have them spend on supplements or medication? If it won't have any effect? Because one of the effects of mycotoxins is it dysregulates mitochondria? And the cell dives that are cell death going on all over the body? And until you don't separate yourself from that talks? No, nothing. No treatment will help. Unfortunate when someone
Emily Kiberd:
39:05
does the treatment of antifungals. Is there any sort of die off reaction or side effects to the treatment?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
39:12
Yeah, good old Herxheimer reaction described by two dermatologist in Germany in 1930. So a Herxheimer reaction does occur. I've had it occur in about 2% of patients that I see, it usually starts occurring at 10 days after they started treatment, and it lasts three or four days. I would just tell them to keep going and you'll get over it. So it's very short. And it's really important to get on the other side. Why do you think some
Emily Kiberd:
39:39
people have a strong reaction? So for example, the example you gave of someone going to their friend's house in five minutes they knew they were like brain foggy, whereas some people don't have that strong, immediate reaction in a space when they are exposed.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
39:56
Everybody's immune system is unique and different even And monozygotic twins, each one has different reaction if I took you and put you in a room with 10 other females the same age, height and weight as you and exposed all 10 of you to a substance, I did 10 different reactions. Yesterday I spoke doctor who had the my microlab test because her office was affected. And she tested herself a receptionist, the nurses, everybody. And at first she did the urine tests and she says the ones who felt pretty good, their urine test came out with real high mycotoxins and the ones who felt awful. I had very low mycotoxins and so I found out about you and I did your test. It's not my tests. I don't know that I'm just the medical adviser. But anyway, she did the test. And this time I had with her yesterday was to go over the test results. And she said, interestingly, she has two nurses who feel not too bad, they don't feel well, not too fat. And she says her receptionist and her assistant that goes into every room where they feel awful, like just like her. So there's always going to be some differences. I've treated families, mom, dad, five kids all under the age of 50. So obviously, little Suzy, whose room was next to that leaky bathroom felt bad. And her test results. Were sly, slightly elevated. Little Johnny the oldest other end of the house, longest exposure felt terrible. And he had really bad microtasks. So this is two people say mom and dad. One was close, but didn't feel so bad and had some mycotoxin show up in her blood. The other was furthest away. He felt awful. And he had a lot more Francorchamps it's called polymorphism. It's called genetic polymorphism we're all different.
Emily Kiberd:
42:04
So to wind down and wrap up before we started recording, you're telling me a story about a school where there was water damage? Can you share that story?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
42:12
Sure. This was a school with 50 children and 30 teachers, obviously 30 teachers, some of them were part time some were administrative. So they started all having symptoms, and found out that the school was moldy in the teachers 30% turned out to have autoimmune diseases. That is extremely high in medicine and medicine. We look at small single percentages, even fractions of percentages 30% autoimmune disorders, the other thing is once treated and moved away to a different school, they all got better and the autoimmune diseases went away. The children, okay, 5050 kids, the 50 kids had real issues with learning disabilities, the havior issues and they all tested positive when they left and were treated. All these learning disabilities and behavioral issues etc. All went away. Part of the treatment by the way was vitamin d3.
Emily Kiberd:
43:17
Yeah, Dr. Campbell thank you so much. I think everyone can learn something from listening to this episode and I always learn something new from listening to your past talks and then our conversation. Thank you so much. I'll attach the my micro lab into the show notes and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and for treating patients.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
43:38
Everybody's welcome anyone last thoughts on me on Zoom? have added I'll be happy to help everybody. I'm getting old enough that I can really enjoy teach you more than anything else. Love it. By the way I teach it to universities. So thank you. You're very welcome.
Emily Kiberd:
43:58
If you enjoyed this episode, or even learned just one new piece of information to help you on your Hashimotos journey. Would you do me a huge favor, rate and review thyroid strong podcast on iTunes, Spotify or whatever platform you used to listen to this podcast and share what you liked. maybe learn something new. And if you didn't like it, well shoot me a DM on Instagram Dr. Emily hybird I read and respond to every single DM I truly believe all feedback is good feedback, even the ugly comments if you're interested in joining the thyroid strong course a home workout program using kettlebells and weights where I teach you how to work out without the burnout. Go to Dr. Emily clyburn.com forward slash T 's waitlist you'll get all the most up to date information on when the course launches and goes live special deals and earn Early Access bonuses for myself and my functional medicine doctor friends again Dr. Emily khyber.com. Forward slash T SW weightless. Hope to see you on the inside ladies
00:00
instead of having to take pills, progress your life not feeling well not being cool you can be. I know that sounds hokey because it's an old adage, but really, every person should be able to live their lives fully and ensure it what they make of their life. And this is preventing them but it can be taken care of and done away
Emily Kiberd:
00:21
with what's up lovely ladies, Dr. Emily hybird. Here with thyroid strong podcast. I am a chiropractor, a mama to Elvis in Brooklyn and I have Hashimotos what is currently in remission. On this podcast I share simple, actionable steps with a little bit of tough love on how to lose that stubborn weight, get your energy, getting your life back and finally learn how to work out without burning out living with Hashimotos. Dr. Andrew Campbell was educated in Switzerland, where he graduated from preparatory school at age 14 and first in his class. He then completed college in three years. After graduating from medical school, Dr. Campbell trained at the Orlando Regional Medical Center and at the Medical College of Georgia. He was Medical Director of the medical center for immune and toxic disorders in Houston for more than 20 years. Dr. Campbell has published over 100 studies in peer reviewed medical journals and chapters in medical textbooks. Dr. Campbell has received awards from many organizations national and international. He lectures regularly at national and international medical conferences. He has lectured at medical schools including Harvard Medical School and Oxford University in England. He is currently the editor in chief of two peer reviewed medical journals, editor of five medical journals. And Dr. Campbell is a medical advisor for my Michael lab, a laboratory dedicated to serum antibody testing to mycotoxins. I hope you enjoy this episode. I really loved how deep we went, in terms of case studies and transformations of patients and just how many 1000s of patients he's helped over the years. Dr. Andrew Campbell, welcome to thyroid strong podcast. It is so great to have you here.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
02:20
Thank you for having me. Yeah, so
Emily Kiberd:
02:21
I've done a lot of research. And I've probably have watched more of your interviews than any other guests that I've had on. And I'd love to start so everyone who listened to the podcast has Hashimotos or a thyroid condition. And a lot of them don't know that exposure to mold and mycotoxins mimic symptoms of Hashimotos. And I'd loved for you to just start with what is the difference between mold and mycotoxins because I think a lot of us have heard mold, but mycotoxin might be a new verbiage and a new word that women have never heard of
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
02:56
molds are everywhere, mold spores, they're all over the planet, or there's recently they found it in the space station. Even up there. You know, when you go to the store and you buy a packet of seeds because you want to plant something and then you get a pot and you put some soil in it and then water the seeds and after a while you get something growing. Same way molds are the spores are everywhere. But it's not until they're wet for 24 hours or more that they start to spoil late with means grow. So wet means not moist, not humid, but actually water damaged. And so this point about molds and mycotoxins that mold spores carry mycotoxins with them. It's kind of like mold had gun and the mycotoxins are the bullet. Yeah. Why does that happen? And how did this happen? For example, many years ago, Dr. Alexander Fleming in Scotland was his doctor. He had two dishes in his laboratory, one had Staphylococcus aureus, a very nasty bacteria that causes diseases, and the other plate had Penicillium notato. On it, he left for vacation forgot to cover them when he came back from vacation. The Brits call it holiday, not vacation, and he noticed that my goodness, the Staphylococcus aureus was dead, so something that killed it. Six, seven years of experimentation, we finally got the first antibiotic called penicillin from Penicillium. So why didn't spores carry mycotoxins is to make sure that no other organism competes for that food at once. Survival of the fittest. Right now, the difference is, your hair is 100 microns thick, everybody's here about 100 microns. mold spores are two to four microns so they can go to the deepest parts of the sinuses from breathing and into your lungs and then go right into blood and into the brain. mycotoxins are 0.1 Lung microns, meaning they're the size of a virus, just like COVID and any of the other viruses. So they're very small, but they are the ones that cause problems. So the difference between one mold spores are living things, they have cell walls, they're alive, etc. Like, the toxins are toxins. They're not alive, mercury, their group of molecules, et cetera, et cetera. So all those things are basically one is alive and the other is a toxin. And because it's a toxin, it's very dangerous.
Emily Kiberd:
05:34
Got it. So how does someone get exposed? Because a lot of women don't know how do they get exposed to a mycotoxin.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
05:40
Anytime you're exposed to mold, you're exposed to mycotoxins every mold makes not only one microstructure and make several micro toxins, which if you're exposed to for, just as an example, to stack the buffers, which is the black frameless black mold, psyche, boxers makes several mycotoxins there's many, many mycotoxins, but there's only about a dozen or so that affect humans. Others affect agriculture, animals, ants, insects, etc. But there's only about a dozen that affect humans.
Emily Kiberd:
06:13
Yeah. So for the women who have been diagnosed with an autoimmune condition, who are just thinking, Oh, it's genetic, I just supposed to take this medication, there's nothing I can do, because a lot of them, that's what they've been told. I think it's important to know that if they've been exposed to mold, which is very likely, because there's a lot of water damaged buildings in the world that maybe mycotoxin exposure is a trigger or contributing to their autoimmune condition.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
06:42
Correct. And if you look at what's happening with global warming, the climate floods killing a load of more than 1300 people now in Pakistan, the issue of this new hurricane, destroying all kinds of things in Puerto Rico last year, floods all over Germany that they hadn't had hundreds and hundreds of years. I mean, there's been a lot of climate change, and that climate change, promotes more rain, more flooding, etc, of what public buildings, halls, schools, etc. And so we're getting more and more exposed to mold growth, because of the wetness and the water damage affecting us and water damage is worldwide, it's not only uncertain places, it's worldwide, and that water damage, makes mold and then from the mold, we get the mycotoxins and all these people with these disorders, the World Health Organization calls mycotoxins the great masquerader of this century, because people get they think they have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, fireroad issues, et cetera. But the real cause are mycotoxins.
Emily Kiberd:
07:56
Do you think someone can live in a water damage building or space and still do certain things and feel okay, maybe they're not fully healed. Maybe they're not removing the mycotoxins fully from their body, because I have a lot of women that like, I don't have money to remediate. I can't move at this time. Just my situation is like, what do you tell that person?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
08:19
That is the most difficult part of what I have to do as a medical doctor? And that is the first rule of toxicology is get the patient away from the toxin, or the toxin away from the patient? How do you tell a person who may not have the economic or situational possibilities? You've got to leave where you are? And I've had to say this to people all over this country and in many other countries? And what do you do Sam, a person and I have, I work out of somewhere and, and my wife has to work and we have two kids, or three kids or whatever, and we're making ends meet? What do you mean, move? What do you mean, throughout all the towels and sheets and blankets and pillows and buy new ones? Because they're all infested? How do you do that? Some studies even are saying now this is a public health problem. And governments need to get involved and help people. So how do you do it? Very, very, very difficult.
Emily Kiberd:
09:19
So, so you had some patients, I'm sure many, many patients that have been diagnosed with an autoimmune condition and you address the mycotoxin exposure, and they get better Correct. Can you share maybe a patient case
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
09:35
Sure, approaching almost 15,000 patients that I've treated for autoimmune disorders and mold and mycotoxins, so molds cause an infection, which is easy to take care of, because there's medication for that prescription medication, mycotoxins just like mercury or glyphosate or Roundup or any of those things. There's no medication, you have to go through a certain process to regrettable and So certain patients, typical mother, 36 years old, married with three boys. So she's busy, busy, busy, and she has a job and she's tired, she's fatigued. She's doesn't sleep well, just to read every paragraph twice to understand it. She has a little bouts here there of anxiety and a little depression. She also tells me that she has these horrible mood swings, and she discussed it with her husband that you think it could be multi says No way, which a lot of women jelly and comes to see me, I felt like the thyroid that slightly enlarge, and you palpate the thyroid from behind. You don't grow like this, you go behind the person and do this to do a good job to do it correctly. And then I asked the you know, your symptoms are symptoms of thyroid bubbles. Oh, yeah, I went to see my regular doctor and he did the steroid function tests on me. And he told me that first time that there was not abnormal enough. And then several months later, I went back to him again, I was feeling the same things and it kept on kept on. He gave me a Synthroid, which is L four levels Iraq's and something that felt a little better, but it didn't quite do it very much. I felt maybe 10 or 20%. That rest 80% still remains. So I heard that you do stuff about Molson, do you think I have moles? I said, Well, do you have a leak in your house anywhere? And if you really think about it today, we have a lot more places where we could have leaks. Long time ago, there was one bathroom in the house. Now there are several bathrooms half bath, washer and dryers in the house. There is a refrigerator spits out ice and iced water. And you have a dishwasher and all these things, all these things can possibly leak. So yeah, she found the leak. First of all, she found that her basement had mold. The other thing her roof had leaked. And the third one is her husband found a leak in one of the pipes and one of the bathrooms. And so he decided to fix that himself. Make a long story short, that was how she presented. I checked her for mycotoxins it's a blood test. The urine test only gives you what you ate that day. It's an excretion. And remember the mycotoxins of 0.1 microns the same size as a virus. You don't test the virus in urine, you test it by blood tests. So if you want Epstein Barr Virus, or any other kind of virus, you do an antibody Blitz. So the same thing for micro toxins. You do an antibody blood says she lit up like a Christmas tree. I told her that if her husband comes out, which he had very hesitant to do, I would see him for nothing. But he had to let me draw some blood he acquiesced. It came in had his blood drawn. He too had. And then when I was talking to him, not his words, to let me ask you something as a doctor, do you have this? Do you have this? You have this? Do you have this? Yes, yes, yes, yes. So obviously, he was trying to mask his symptoms, but he too had symptoms. Men typically do not like to talk about their symptoms, no matter what age even mine. And so I treated them about how did I treat them? First of all, I told the woman, let me check your thyroid with an antibody test. Sure enough, she had an autoimmune thyroiditis? Well, we know and we've known this for about 2530 years that mycotoxins cause an autoimmune reaction. Okay. So autoimmune diseases such as Hashimotos thyroiditis, such as MS, multiple sclerosis, and as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. It's a reaction, it's not a disease. That's the big difference. The disease you're treated with the usual medications that are used cortisone and those kinds of medications and for thyroid, etc. A reaction means if you take away what's causing the reaction, the reaction goes away. So in this case, I told the woman to continue taking her Synthroid and start treating her like her toxins. And I'll get into treatment later if you'd like. But I had treated the mycotoxins and after one month, I took her off the Synthroid, she felt much better, felt much, much better. And after six months, we checked for thyroid antibodies. They were gone.
Emily Kiberd:
14:41
Did she move out of her space? Did she change her space?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
14:43
That's the key question. Yes, she would move in with her mother and dad for the rest of time, because with a mold inspector came and although it's not regulated, some mold inspectors are Good and others are not so good. And there's a whole set of problems with this one said, You've got mold and you've got it in several areas. So that's when, because it was starting to affect the three boys. She decided, okay, it's okay to deal with me and my husband, we're adults, but not the children. I'm moving to mom's. You can come with me or not. And they all went to mom, because mom didn't live that far away. She got maybe 20 minutes, 25 minutes away. So they all move, Mom and Dad stayed on the one floor and the rest of them stayed in two bedrooms upstairs. It was difficult. It was a challenge. But during this time, they were fixing the leaks and remediating the house. And then they moved back in. This was a year ago, I last heard from her. And July, that she just sent me a little email, telling me how great she feels, and how the boys are doing and how her husband's doing and just as I get those emails, I get emails from patients from 20 to 25 years ago still, and it was so nice to hear from her, but she's fine. Now. What was the thing? One, she removed the cross she got away from what was causing it. Second, she was treated for mycotoxins. And there, she followed the directions.
Emily Kiberd:
16:20
Yeah. Can we talk about the testing? Because I think people have heard of the urine mycotoxin test. Obviously, you mentioned that doing it through bloodwork through serum draw is the gold standard, the gold
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
16:36
standard, and it's been that way this test for mycotoxins and blood has been around for over 25 years. It's not a new test. And what does it's very precise, it's very accurate. So what it tells me is, how much of each of 12 mycotoxins do you have in your body currently, that's what you want to know, what is my body dealing with? And on the other side, let me give you a for instance of a study because I'm very evidence based. If you tell me you had uncle Ralph, who lost all his hair, and then he rubbed walnut oil all over his scalp for a month in his hair grew back. Very happy drunkle Ralph, but that does not say that that's evidence you can't go out and tell everybody to do that. So evidence based medicine shows that last year in July, Dr. Frey and his group published a study showing that 91% of all milk that you drink from cows cow's milk that you get at the supermarket 91% contains mycotoxins. What does that mean? We can have cereal or milk products or yogurt or whatever cream or ice cream on it? No. Why? Because it's below what is called TDI tolerable daily inventory. And that's regulated very strictly by the FDA. The E FSA, which is European Food Safety Authority, United Nations committees and the committee's in the World Health Organization. How much of this is allowed and Sue? It's very little, it's parts per billion. I'm a visual, I don't know what a part per billion means. So I ask a physicist to explain to me what what is a part per billion? How do I visualize that? He says, Take 100 football fields, cover them with golf balls, remove one golf ball, that's a part per billion. Wow. That made sense to you? Well, the government regulates sent peanuts, how I look the peanuts have mycotoxins, coffee, beans, et cetera, et cetera. There's a lot of these, but these are regulated. And there's so little that it's 44 billion, and our body just excretes. That right away. It excretes that neuron. So what you're testing for in urine is what your body's getting rid of. So if you did a urine test Monday, yesterday, and you did another test Monday, next week, or Monday, the third week, you'd have three different results. In blood. It's an antibody test this very precise. How do you test for hepatitis A, B, and C? Just by an antibody test? How do you test for Epstein Barr cytomegalovirus all the viruses all the things that are very small, like a mycotoxin. You test through an antibody test, because it's very precise. It's used in all hospitals. And by the way, the laboratory my micro lab and why I'm why co lab because Miko means mold and let us mycology is the study so m y single line microlab is now getting has three studies going on with mycotoxins, one on autism and two others studies both from different university all three are from medical university medical centers. The other two are on mast cell activation syndrome. And I'm teaching mast cell activation syndrome at a medical school and send the San Francisco area starting in October, and this is for MDS and DRS because it's an accredited medical school. The point is, is that mycotoxins caused a lot of issues with autoimmunity. So autoimmune disorders, and the most common one in women is Hashimotos thyroiditis. The most common one in young people, especially males, is ms, multiple sclerosis. So you can actually cure multiple sclerosis. And this was done in a study at Rutgers University School of Medicine. They said 60% of MS is crossed by microphones. That's a very high percentage. That is, and Tufts University came out on autism, Tufts University School of Medicine up in Boston 60% of autism is crossbar. And the great thing is about all these autoimmune disorders, including Hashimotos, HyProCure, instead of having to take pills, progress, your life not feeling well, not being cool you can be I know that sounds hokey, because it's an old adage. But really, every person should be able to live their lives fully, and ensure it what they make of their life. And this is preventing them, but it can be taken care of, and got done, done away with.
Emily Kiberd:
21:36
So the Michael lab, let's say someone gets that draw, and they have the antibodies. How do you start to treat that person?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
21:46
First of all, anyone who does that test, it's a free zoom call with me to go over their test results.
Emily Kiberd:
21:53
I'm sitting on my kitchen counter upstairs waiting to get done.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
21:57
And so that helps them start to understand the process. Now, what how do you treat it? There's two parts to this. And it's a paradigm it's not a protocol. Protocol means one size fits all. So if it's a 25 year old female that weighs 110 pounds, or a 55 year old female that weighs 180 pounds, the treatment is the same. Well, that's not possible. That doesn't make sense. It has to be tailored to that person. Some people have more this mental fog issue, autoimmune sleep, migraine, those kind of things. Well, they fit into more of these kinds of treatments. What if it's all gut and a lot of gut issues? Well, that fits into this, okay, so you treat it different, but there's certain things that are established one is there certain very good and necessary vitamins and nutrients. And we've got to take one example, vitamin d3 is vital for the thyroid, for normal tharla Even if you don't have Hashimotos. Now once you have Arcimoto is even more important. So there's these supplements and or that and vitamins that should take and then on the other side, how do you kill and get rid of the mold spores that carry the mycotoxins you need an antifungal? What is an anti fungal spore knocks hydrocortisone? I've used it in almost 15,000 patients no problems. Everybody gets worried about liver enzymes. I did too when I first started. But after 15,000 Not seeing anything happened to the liver. I said, we'll check the liver every couple of months. It's not a problem. The other issue about treatment is what these mycotoxins cross the blood brain barrier that's well established in medicine that they affect the first place is the brain. And second, they start producing antibodies, antibodies against myelin, which copes, nerves, antibodies against the thyroid antibodies. So how do you get rid of antibodies, everybody gets on the internet and hears about all these binders, dates been tried and binders in laboratories they've used cheap piglets, chickens, rabbits, various other there's not a single study showing that it works in humans. I'm not going to give somebody a patient of mine who's put one of their most precious possessions in my hand, their health, something that has no proof behind it. That's like walnut oil for Uncle rouse head adductor is if there's no evidence, so I make sure that they take the right things where there is absolute evidence, medical science, evidence that it works, that it does what it's supposed to. Yeah. And then six months later, they're fine.
Emily Kiberd:
24:46
And the tests the my MiCollab How do you know if it's since his antibody reaction if it's a past exposure from 20 years ago, or a current exposure or maybe other than just like taking a subjective history of where it is in the timeline of their life?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
25:01
Sure. So in what we call microbiology, there's four pathogens, bacteria, viruses, parasites and pathogenic fungi. And let me mention pathogenic fungi. One fungus, Aspergillus is now to infect the thyroid. And the 3d symptoms are fever in large thyroid. So in some people even gets difficult to swallow. And third, huge fatigue, and that's an infection. So these four things infect people. Not only that, but there's medications for them. So if you have a urinary tract infection, or bronchitis, or virus or whatever, you can treat those with prescription medications. Let's go over here to another area. It's called toxicology. Toxicology is just molecules. They're not alive, they don't have cell walls. Now in pathogens and for pathogens, if you were infected I had when I was a kid, I'd had chickenpox. Right now as he tests my blood, I have antibodies to chickenpox. And that's from long time ago. And that's for living things. They leave that footprint and your immune system. So I have IgG antibodies to chickenpox over here, toxicology. You only have it when it's inside you and affecting you. For example, if you look at shampoo, which everybody uses on their hair and scalp is full of pores because we sweat through our skull, there's every bottle of shampoo has I don't tend to 20 long words that are chemicals but we don't get affected by it. They don't make us sick. We don't have antibodies against only when a chemical or a toxin it gets into mercury, arsenic, pesticides, mycotoxins get into you, that your immune system starts producing immunoglobulin G antibodies IgG antibodies. So the test means that currently your immune system is fighting these mycotoxins now couldn't've say six months ago, for two years you lived in a moldy apartment and then six months after you moved out, you could be colonized by mold. How do we know that? For example, Dr. panico chairman of the department of ear nose and surgery at the Mayo Clinic did a study on 210 patients who suffered from chronic sinus problem he took 210 of them all 210 to the operating room, removed and cleaned out their sinuses and scent. What he found in there to the lab had said what do you see 96% was molt he actually petition that the word chronic sinusitis be changed to chronic fungal sinusitis. So we know it lives in your sinuses, and people have sinus problems. Where else it goes into the lungs. And from the lungs. It spreads primarily to the brain. A lot of people talk about it goes to the liver and the gut and all those things. No, there's no evidence actually there are studies that show that the gut microbiome detoxes mycotoxins, so actually destroys. So all these people who take binders, they're actually doing themselves a disfavor and for longing, the disorder and I get about five or 10 emails a day that I've been on binders for two, three years, and I'm still sick, and so on and so forth. If it worked, I wouldn't be using it. But there's no evidence there's nothing. So what you do is your tests show that now there's two parts to the test. One is the IgG antibodies, which means at that time, your immune system is fighting off a toxic reaction, the other is IGE IGE. antibodies to mycotoxins indicate mast cell activation. And so we have these two tests and that's why University Medical Centers are using the IGE test for mycotoxins as a marker for mast cell activation syndrome.
Emily Kiberd:
29:13
For people who don't know what mast cell activation syndrome I know when I was first diagnosed, and I was told that I was like, I have never heard that. Can you share what that is and what some of the symptoms may be?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
29:23
Sure. Mast cells are what regulate your allergies say you are allergic to shrimp and unbeknownst to you, you a part of a shrimp in some kind of PE or something and you break out in hives, that's an mast cell. What they do is it releases Heparin, which makes your blood thinner and it releases histamine, which makes you have hives and itch everywhere and your throat scratchy and all these things. However, an IGE antibody to micro toxin makes those mast cells release other things as well. And those other things are what we call pro inflammatory cytokines. Cytokines. ABOR are what regulate the immune system, it's kind of like tells your immune system to slow down or stop or the opposite. It tells your immune system to go fight and fight harder and recruit cells, etc. So skin problems, psychiatric problems, anxiety, depression are very common issues with the gut, lot of gut problems with mast cell activation syndrome. So those are the most common types of symptoms you get from muscle activation. And then
Emily Kiberd:
30:38
how does mold exposure lead to that
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
30:42
because molds carry mycotoxins right. And it's the mycotoxins that trigger mast cell activation and rate all this inflammation that goes throughout the whole body. And so that's the mechanism.
Emily Kiberd:
30:56
So if you treat the mycotoxins, you get rid of the mast cell activation,
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
30:59
right, and actually, Washington University School of Medicine Department of gastroenterology, Dr. Weinstock, Leonard Weinstock and I have published a study already on this, and we're publishing two more and how IGE antibodies to mycotoxins trigger mast cell activation, and we have actual pictures of people scan and various things.
Emily Kiberd:
31:22
It feels very isolating, right, because there's so many water damaged buildings, climate change, more flooding. There's older buildings, more buildings with like flat tops with a water sits and doesn't drain. And I mean, I know this summer, I went into a gym, there was water damage, I went into the CVS, there was water damage, it just feels like it's everywhere. And it can feel isolating, and it can create that fight or flight response, like, am I gonna get exposed? And obviously, there's the treatment aspect. But how can we also strengthen our terrain such that we don't just totally go into brain fog and can't finish our sentence when we are exposed?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
32:02
Interestingly, a lot of my patients who are well, and then it takes me about six months to treat someone with mycotoxin issues, they get well, and they'll tell me, this is the little emails I get. I went to visit my best friend and I don't know where. And within five minutes, I had to leave her house because I knew there were mold. She didn't know she didn't see if she didn't know where but she started feeling bad. I've heard that about I've been to certain restaurants. And I had to leave within five minutes because I knew there was mold there are shops are aware of so yes, there's a lot of water damage everywhere. Now, how do you make sure you don't get affected? Once you've been treated, you're overweight, you're fine. Now you're living your life as you wish, what you do is you keep taking certain supplements, not a lot, just certain supplements that keep your immune system at best condition. Just like if you want to be your body to be in a great condition, you go to a gym, or some place like this, and workout and then your body after some time gets really you like how you look and the clothes fit better. And all those kind of nice things. It's the same with the immune system, you've got to keep it sharp. So if you're going to go I need it at the fast food places three times a week. And you're going to have two packs of Coca Cola overall, you know, and that inner every week, and eat poorly and not exercise very much, if any, and do all those things your immune system is going to slide downward. However, if you do choose your foods wisely, if you do, make sure you at least walk daily for 35 minutes, that's not a big walk and your pets will love it. And if you take certain supplements that strengthen your immune system, then you can walk into a CVS and be there 20 minutes getting things and walk out and your immune system will flick these off like a nasty fly bothering you.
Emily Kiberd:
34:07
I know you mentioned vitamin D, are there any other supplements you could share to strengthen the immune system in the way that you're speaking vitamin
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
34:14
d three 5000 units you don't need more is not always better. Right? So 5000 is enough. I would also make sure that you take vitamin A good B complex vitamin and I can share with you where I get these things if you so wish. But a good bit complex has been shown that our diets today even if you buy organic, and have your own farm and I don't know why we're deficient in B vitamins and whatever the government tells you is the maximum limit forget it's like 10 times that. That's an important one magnesium most of us are low in magnesium or marginally wrote low and mag magnesium is involved in over 350 Different enzymatic actions within the body that without magnesium doesn't work. You can't get anything out of protein. If you don't have enough magnesium. That's just one small example. Yeah, so, gotta take magnesium. And I always recommend that a person take three milligrams of melatonin at bedtime. Now everybody thinks that melatonin is for sleep. And yes, it will help sleep. However, a number of studies done at the University of Texas San Antonio branch have shown that it helps detoxify the brain, because regardless of what you do, you go outside, there's diesel particles in the air from trucks, your shampoos, things, cleansers, where people used to clean their kitchen, their clothes, or their shoes or bathrooms with all those are chemical products. And your brain is very sensitive. And melatonin helps give those things not affect your brain.
Emily Kiberd:
36:09
Yeah, do you have a favorite source or brand for your the magnesium in the BB complex?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
36:14
Yes, I don't have any interests of any kind, monetary or otherwise. And these companies, I've got to be upfront, let's you always I use clear laps with a K for melatonin and vitamin d3. For the B complex. It's called Vita B. And for magnesium, I use a company called Jigsaw Health. And it's called mag SR T. I published an article about 10 years ago or so on magnesium. I have over 100 publications and medical journals that have chapters in medical textbooks. But this one, when I wrote it was very interesting for me because if you take magnesium that peaks in your blood and two hours, and two hours later you excrete it. So close last a short time. This Mag SRT, magnesium sustained release lasts eight to 10 hours. So you only need one of the morning, one of the which is great. Lastly, very important to have a good, solid micro file. We are you and I are made up of about 35 trillion cells. The microbiome is 130 side, we have 23,000 genes, the microbiome has 8,000,080% of our immune system is in our gut. It makes all kinds of neurotransmitters. And for example, if you have a good microbiome, proteins are made with amino acids. Amino acids are like brick, and the protein is the house. l tryptophan is an essential amino acid meaning we don't make it we have to get it from outside chocolate, meat, eggs. So l tryptophan then becomes in a normal good microbiome gut become serotonin are happy neurotransmitter. That's what the psychiatrists use for depression. And from serotonin, you derive melatonin, so you sleep well. Depressed people don't sleep well, and feel off. So if you have a good microbiome that's essential, and I always recommend my patients take megaspore biotic and that's from microbiome labs.
Emily Kiberd:
38:24
Do you ever start treatment? If someone hasn't moved out of the space, that is the source?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
38:30
I don't because it's totally ineffective, and I don't want them to waste money. And a lot of people money is an issue these days. So why have them spend on supplements or medication? If it won't have any effect? Because one of the effects of mycotoxins is it dysregulates mitochondria? And the cell dives that are cell death going on all over the body? And until you don't separate yourself from that talks? No, nothing. No treatment will help. Unfortunate when someone
Emily Kiberd:
39:05
does the treatment of antifungals. Is there any sort of die off reaction or side effects to the treatment?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
39:12
Yeah, good old Herxheimer reaction described by two dermatologist in Germany in 1930. So a Herxheimer reaction does occur. I've had it occur in about 2% of patients that I see, it usually starts occurring at 10 days after they started treatment, and it lasts three or four days. I would just tell them to keep going and you'll get over it. So it's very short. And it's really important to get on the other side. Why do you think some
Emily Kiberd:
39:39
people have a strong reaction? So for example, the example you gave of someone going to their friend's house in five minutes they knew they were like brain foggy, whereas some people don't have that strong, immediate reaction in a space when they are exposed.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
39:56
Everybody's immune system is unique and different even And monozygotic twins, each one has different reaction if I took you and put you in a room with 10 other females the same age, height and weight as you and exposed all 10 of you to a substance, I did 10 different reactions. Yesterday I spoke doctor who had the my microlab test because her office was affected. And she tested herself a receptionist, the nurses, everybody. And at first she did the urine tests and she says the ones who felt pretty good, their urine test came out with real high mycotoxins and the ones who felt awful. I had very low mycotoxins and so I found out about you and I did your test. It's not my tests. I don't know that I'm just the medical adviser. But anyway, she did the test. And this time I had with her yesterday was to go over the test results. And she said, interestingly, she has two nurses who feel not too bad, they don't feel well, not too fat. And she says her receptionist and her assistant that goes into every room where they feel awful, like just like her. So there's always going to be some differences. I've treated families, mom, dad, five kids all under the age of 50. So obviously, little Suzy, whose room was next to that leaky bathroom felt bad. And her test results. Were sly, slightly elevated. Little Johnny the oldest other end of the house, longest exposure felt terrible. And he had really bad microtasks. So this is two people say mom and dad. One was close, but didn't feel so bad and had some mycotoxin show up in her blood. The other was furthest away. He felt awful. And he had a lot more Francorchamps it's called polymorphism. It's called genetic polymorphism we're all different.
Emily Kiberd:
42:04
So to wind down and wrap up before we started recording, you're telling me a story about a school where there was water damage? Can you share that story?
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
42:12
Sure. This was a school with 50 children and 30 teachers, obviously 30 teachers, some of them were part time some were administrative. So they started all having symptoms, and found out that the school was moldy in the teachers 30% turned out to have autoimmune diseases. That is extremely high in medicine and medicine. We look at small single percentages, even fractions of percentages 30% autoimmune disorders, the other thing is once treated and moved away to a different school, they all got better and the autoimmune diseases went away. The children, okay, 5050 kids, the 50 kids had real issues with learning disabilities, the havior issues and they all tested positive when they left and were treated. All these learning disabilities and behavioral issues etc. All went away. Part of the treatment by the way was vitamin d3.
Emily Kiberd:
43:17
Yeah, Dr. Campbell thank you so much. I think everyone can learn something from listening to this episode and I always learn something new from listening to your past talks and then our conversation. Thank you so much. I'll attach the my micro lab into the show notes and thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and for treating patients.
Dr. Andrew Campbell:
43:38
Everybody's welcome anyone last thoughts on me on Zoom? have added I'll be happy to help everybody. I'm getting old enough that I can really enjoy teach you more than anything else. Love it. By the way I teach it to universities. So thank you. You're very welcome.
Emily Kiberd:
43:58
If you enjoyed this episode, or even learned just one new piece of information to help you on your Hashimotos journey. Would you do me a huge favor, rate and review thyroid strong podcast on iTunes, Spotify or whatever platform you used to listen to this podcast and share what you liked. maybe learn something new. And if you didn't like it, well shoot me a DM on Instagram Dr. Emily hybird I read and respond to every single DM I truly believe all feedback is good feedback, even the ugly comments if you're interested in joining the thyroid strong course a home workout program using kettlebells and weights where I teach you how to work out without the burnout. Go to Dr. Emily clyburn.com forward slash T 's waitlist you'll get all the most up to date information on when the course launches and goes live special deals and earn Early Access bonuses for myself and my functional medicine doctor friends again Dr. Emily khyber.com. Forward slash T SW weightless. Hope to see you on the inside ladies
