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Speaker 1: All right, welcome back, Ramse's Jah still in the Saddle. Today's guest. Amy Horwitz is an American conservative documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and director of the Amy al LUs, the satirical short film series. He's also the host of a recent documentary, The Art of War, looked into the practices of the IDF. Recently, Amy went to Los Angeles Southwest College to ask too he's to take a blind taste test challenge to see if they lean or Republican or Democrat. I'm thank you for hanging out with us, and again, full disclosure of folks and mss versus half. Amy is a friend of the show. Ammy and I see the world in very different ways, but we confer a few times a year. We like to do it for the show, but we also do it in person. Omy is actually my friend. I do care about him, I care about his family, and he is my conservative friend. He gives me insight into a world that I don't fully understand, and I hope that I do the same. And so this is the conversation we're having. It's going to sound like we're not the best of friends, but I can assure you that I love Amy with my whole heart and feels the same way about me. Don't let me speak for you can certainly flatter me all you like on me, But let's get back to the conversation. So the next question that you asked, and we got to get through these little quicker because I want to MA, sure I get them all in. But should parents have more control over education or less control over education? And I think that assigning one of those answers yes or no to Republicans and the other one to Democrats that might be a less than accurate way of determining who value what values a person have. So here's what I'll share, and then of course I want your response. But of course, in this country, parents have the right to homeschool their children or supplement their children's education as they see fit. That is just a general statement I wanted to make. Republicans generally want less federal control over education and more state and parental control, whereas Democrats are more favorable toward federal oversight and public school regulations. And the two parties approach control quote unquote in very different ways, but of course they do approach control right, and that and that and across the different levels of government, local, state, federal. You know, there's different approaches to that. Again, generally speaking, Republican support decentralized power by abolishing or reducing the federal Department of Education and shifting authority back to states and local school districts. Democrats generally view the federal government as an important guaranteur of civil rights, equitable funding, standard support for public institutions. So the the issue isn't necessarily education as a whole.
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Speaker 2: One question I would redo that's probably that's part of this one. So that's a fair that's a very fair pushback, and I I think if I had to redo it in like concis is twenty twenty, obviously I probably would have focused more on charter schools as a question.
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Speaker 3: Okay, because you know, it's so funny.
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Speaker 2: I find that particularly among the black this is everybody, it's not just the black community, but obviously applies to black community.
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Speaker 3: That everyone.
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Speaker 2: The lived experiences that you have obviously color your perspective on the world. And I think that when it comes to the live experiences of the Black community with education and crime in particular, I think that those are two things they tend to have more conservative beliefs on because that's been their experience, and not about the argument whether not charter schools are better or not better.
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Speaker 3: That's not debate on it.
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Speaker 2: The reality is that most black people support charter schools because they perceive it as a better school than the local public school. And yeah, all that data and asturity, I've seen that overwhelming support in the inner city for charter schools. Again, not debating which one's more effective, but it's perceived by the black community is more effective and they and they are they are more likely than not to say, hey, yeah, we'd rather apricate in charge school.
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Speaker 3: Okay, that's the one one.
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Speaker 2: I think that if I had to do a do over, i'd probably do over the language of that one.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then just between me and you, of course, and I don't I don't expect you to do it, but yeah, just me and you, that's it. Man, forget the whole world. But uh, but this question just you can push back if you, if you so choose. With this question, I think in the general sense, in terms of Republicans Democrats, has a lot more to do with history. How is history taught? Then it has to do with really anything else with mathematics and algebra and language arts and you know, all the you know sciences and all the sorts of really history the way history is taught, and and watch this. I was very fair here, Amy, So watch this. Democrats generally speaking, want the full history taught, and Republicans generally speaking, prefer selective lessons rolled out at intervals that they deem appropriate. Right, So I don't think I was unkind. You could, of course push back, maybe there's a better way to say it, But I think that that is the difference, the fundamental difference that causes this question to even have the gravity about it that it does. It's really a history question. And so if you wanted to get again to the moral center of a person to determine what they value, what their community values, what they feel is appropriate for not just them but the country in which they live, I think that if we get a little closer, and again, you've already admitted this is a question you would reapproach. But I think that somewhere a little closer to that, I think we might find really what the moral center of these moral is the wrong word. I don't want to say it, because that makes it seem like one group is immorl on the other is moral, and I don't believe that. Yeah, how about ideologically aligned?
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Speaker 3: Right?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, so so yeah, that's a fair play. And I appreciate you know, the pushback here.
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Speaker 3: By the way, I don't know, I don't know if I agree with you.
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Speaker 2: I think that the issue with Republican versus Democrat on curriculum is not that one wants to teach one history versus another history. I think it's more about Republicans just believe, hey, local communities know better than the federal government or what to teach your particular community. And if the black community or charter school whatever it was like, hey, we want to do it with a larger focus on slavery rather than something else, I think republic go, hey, that's look your kids, that you're educating your community.
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Speaker 3: And that's fine. I may or may not disagree with that.
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Speaker 2: But it's really more about decentralized control and more local control than federal control than actually specifically about how we want to teach history.
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Speaker 1: If and when the day comes and we can get into the whys of that, I will welcome that. I will welcome that day because the white I know that you have friends that praguer you, and around here we know fully that praguer you is exceptionally problematic. But I know you to be a decent man, and so I know that you will mount a masterful defense of that, and so I look forward to the day when we can have that conversation. Next question, should there be Okay, this one, I mean you're gonna you're gonna hear it right when I say it. You asked children who have no money on a college campus, should there be generally higher taxes or generally lower taxes? Mike in their face, go give me the answer so you can hear.
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Speaker 3: That's so yeah, I don't know, that's so wild.
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Speaker 1: I think didn't defend it. Hell, go ahead, man, I'm from here.
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Speaker 2: Look, I mean I was a poor student, so I can totally understand that what that's like. Now, the truth is they so they actually don't really pay taxes, right, So the truth is is that the poor you are, the less taxes you're actually paying.
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Speaker 3: Are you paying more? Is a percentage of you know, obviously, the argument.
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Speaker 2: That a billionaire feels a forty percent tax rate less than a poor person who feels a ten percent tax rate is one hundred percent true by the way, right that, Yeah, forty percent is higher than ten percent of your income. But the truth is, if you're making millions of dollars, forty percent doesn't affect you in a real way like ten percent does and you're poor, totally true. But when you're that young, you're not really paying taxes at the end of the day, you don't make that threshold usually to get over that that number, some do because if some have to work for like for real and pay for for real for like their parents and their families, and that's a different story. And I don't obviously I don't presume to know what each one of their individual situations are like. But look, I think that p I think that sounds like an overly simplistic question, and it is one hundred percent, but I think it does cut to the heart of, Hey, do we want to have a higher tax society in order to pay for things versus a lower tax society with the government's paying for less.
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Speaker 1: That would have been a question that I think.
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Speaker 3: And yes, okay, I could have yes, there it is. I did kind of toe. You're right, I did kind of touch that.
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Speaker 2: But with the should we have again, you had the question from haven't reviewed there in a while? The higher taxes for more social programs?
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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I'll get to that.
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Speaker 3: I'll get to those two kind of blended. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, So so give me a second. Okay, So, so my thoughts here were exactly what you said. You know, generally speaking, everyone's going to answer that question, should there generally be higher taxes or lower taxes? Everyone's going to ask that question the same way. The question really is, as you mentioned, what does society look like when there are higher taxes? Are there? Is there better health care, more more accessible health care for more people? Are there less homeless people? Because taxes? You know, what is that? What are the taxes going to? How the taxes improve the health of the general society? And how much of your personal fiscal autonomy do you want to give up in order to live in a society that has less in the way of things that might uh you might want to see or might not want to see, whatever the case is. And so again, just do you want to pay more or less taxes to anybody, even people that don't pay a lot of taxes that you know? And then of course, you know for a person like me with a lot in the way of context, I would point to a lot of the To be fair, they are capitalist countries, but they have exceptionally robust socialist programs and ideologies in terms of the framing of their society. Think you know Norway, Thanks, you know all those places exactly, and they do.
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Speaker 2: But wait, if I ask you the question, you would say, higher taxes, right, generally higher taxes right.
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Speaker 1: Well, again, it's it's contingent upon like, do I want to give this administration more taxes? No? This administration don't.
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Speaker 3: I don't has made you a fiscal concer.
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Speaker 1: Perhaps perhaps in this moment you can say that, yeah, but I think you can do better. Man, keep trying, man, But yeah, in the moment, you got me. Okay, But you know, I think your point is well made. And again it's sort of circumstantial just asking that question. I don't think it gets to the thrust of where a person's ideas and who they are as a person would be. So okay, So Amy, there's a handful of questions here leftover. I don't know if we'll get to them, but I do want to make sure that we get in uh sort of your you know, uh ten thousand foot overview of you know, where the black community is or where in your estimation the black community is versus where the black community thinks they are. Are really just some conclusions that you have from this this you know, study, case study on this college campus. So so again, bring us into your experience here and what you've learned.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so again, the video itself is obviously anecdotal. It's not you know, it is a data point obviously, but it's it doesn't it doesn't prove or disprove anything in particular, but it's fine as interesting and it does.
00:12:18
Speaker 3: But then the data does show.
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Speaker 2: Something very similar to what the video is trying to imp which is so okay. Obviously, black people have voted overwhelming a Democrat of the last few decades, ninety percent, like it's a very very high number. And what's fascinating is while they vote Democrat, they tend to be against the more progressive movements, right. And a great example is so when you know, obviously we're talking about the DSA real quick but you know, when Bertie Sanders was running against Joe Biden, Bertie Sanders, we kind of forget, but he was running away with the selection. He won I think the first three primaries, and what happened was it went to South Carolina and Jim Clyborne said, no, no, no, no, no, no no, We're not having a comrade Bernie run this party. We're gonna have Uncle Joe run this party. And he put his foot down and the South Carolina voted for Joe Biden and it was lights out for Bernie after that, because I think the black community is like, we're not down with Bernie Sanders, we are not down with the hard left. And look, the DSAS is three maybe four percent Black right over overall community of thirteen to fifteen percent around the country. And again it goes back to the lived experiences, and they're particularly conservative issues, particularly conservative on issues that affect the community. And I we talk education and crime, high belief in God. Something that surprised me a data point by the Brennan Institute, which still get a liberal think tank, was that the majority of not a huge majority, but a majority of black people polled were against Medicare for all. They were for a public choice right and there werefore having medicaid for people who are poor. Medicare people are old. They like the system as it is, but they were against medicare for all, you know, maybe the most. And by the way, I well, I can talk about after I did find the Gotten Mocker Institute, which is the one on later abortion.
00:14:15
Speaker 3: Nice, but.
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Speaker 2: It's there's some so for example, some interesting Uh there was a gallop pole done that showed that black people who were identified seventy five percent as liberal twenty years ago now identify at forty eight percent liberal, So a significant decrease.
00:14:31
Speaker 1: And yet and yet do they still vote overwhelming? Okay, all right, continue.
00:14:37
Speaker 2: And I'll take you the most fascinating part of this whole equation is Mom Donnie. Okay, So when Mom Donnie was running for the primary right against I'm donning round the primary against.
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Speaker 1: Uh, it doesn't matter. I know you're talking about it.
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Speaker 2: I can't think of the name, you know, a a center left candidate versus Mo'm donnie, a hard left candidate. For the primary. Mamdanni got crushed in the black communities. I'm Donnie, what's upo Cuomo? Yes, Cuomo one beat him in all of the Hispanic and most of the black and Hispanic communities, and Madonna got crushed when they ran against each other. As for the for the general election when I'm Donnie ran as a Democrat and Cuomo as an independent. Mom Donnie won the black vote, which was so fascinating and confusing to me, and then I realized it's because he had a d and that they were voting party line right, which again that the Mamdani kind of like explained that the Tani phenomenon explains the black community's voting patterns.
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Speaker 3: Right.
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Speaker 2: They don't agree with Mam Donnie's position, They prefer the center left positions, but ultimately still reverted back to Democrat right, which I found fascinating.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: Do do you think you know why that is? Because I could tell you.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I'll I mean you I opposit at Somebody in my in the video said, I mean, they said a lot of fascinating things. One said, they're voting for Republicans in his communities, like voting for whiteness, right, and they conflate Republican and white, and then the other one another woman said it's political inheritance. But yeah, of course I want to I want the answer.
00:16:22
Speaker 1: I understand why they would say that in the video, and I remember the gentleman you were interviewing saying that I think that they're on the right track, but in terms of which party has actively tried to do things for the black community or gotten behind or supported endeavors intended to benefit the black community. You mentioned the shift away from black people voting Republican to black people voting Democrat. That actually started during the Great Depression and then it culminated in the sixties with Lyndon Johnson. But there started to be a shift away, and it was because the Republicans in power during the Great Depression. There were local and state laws, mostly local laws, but again these were Republicans, and they were prioritizing giving assistance to white families over black families, and Democrats did not have that, or they were campaigning on the fact that that was wrong and that was immoral and unjust. And so that's where you see the shift begin, right and then over the years, the Civil Rights Movement, the BLM protests, you know, these sorts of things, you see a pushback whenever there's this, I guess push forward. You see this push for the advancement of a black agenda, the remedying, the rectifying of past injustices, you know, the teaching of the full accurate history so that white people have context, so they don't grow up and be as racist as the people that we had to grow up with. Right, So all of that stuff happens, and Democrats is the only ones that are actually putting to our Democrats perfect absolutely not. Democrats is the reason why black men and black women aren't married at the same rates. Right, Democrat, I could go through a lot of problems that stem from Democratic legislation, but it's the Republicans that actively, at every point in history over the past one hundred years plus years, pushed back against the decidedly progressive agenda that benefited black people. And so if you have a Democrat running for a Republican you can find black people that say, you know what, my values align with the Republican Party, at least what the Republican Party purports to espouse. My values are there. I believe in Jesus, I believe in God. I don't think that men should do this and women shouldn't do that, and blah blah blah. All there were questions that we haven't gotten to, but that group is the same group with the clan with the Nazis and everybody over there voting is voting for a world that the clan wants to live in and the Nazis want to live in, and they're all helping bring the Nazis vision to life. And the Democrats are the only ones that I see that actually don't have a problem with CRT, with DEI, with any of that Sagan currently or historically both.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: Okay, So obviously differ on that, although not not this by the way, we differ on that to an extent. There is no question that there is that there is a push on a certain portion of the conservative Republican agenda, the isolation's agenda, which is no question.
00:20:15
Speaker 3: Pushing for things like that, Right, And.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: So I don't one hundred percent agree, but I agree a little bit right, more certainly more nastar than was ten.
00:20:26
Speaker 3: Twenty years ago.
00:20:27
Speaker 2: Right, I look, you're everything you said is obviously a hundred century except that I would argue that it depends on how you view on what's better for the black community.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: Right, one would argue, is is.
00:20:41
Speaker 1: Voter disenfranchisement.
00:20:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, again, I don't know. I don't know if Aha lot of people agree with you on voters and franchise.
00:20:49
Speaker 1: So have you seen the response in Alabama and Mississippi and so forth and all those Republican states. How black people have been mobilized and they're turning out in record numbers in response, literally in response to the voter suppression initiatives, the packing, the cracking and packing that was done to weaken the black vote in all those Southern states. This is stuff that we have to cover here for sure.
00:21:11
Speaker 2: But but I by the way, I would but I would say most black people in the and I obviously I did. One of my more famous videos was on voter ide laws in the black community. I would say, if you're if you're north of the Mason Dixon line, I think most black people were like, yeah, I don't see this enfranchise.
00:21:26
Speaker 3: And I want to I'm down with it. I don't.
00:21:29
Speaker 2: I don't feel like maybe some folks in the in the South might feel for it. But I do think that again, the issues that are important to a black family. And by the way, when I say black family, this this goes really large for any family. Right, every family votes based on their lived experiences. Yeah, I think Look, I think you and I are agreement. You do agree with my overall premise that black people are more conservative that most people think they are.
00:21:58
Speaker 1: What I agree with is that black people, I think are more diverse than they're as diverse as any group of people. I would go with that. However, black people's options in a binary will support what the history, the historical and current record suggests is Like. Again, if there's a group talking about reparations to address past injustices, and black people feel that there have been pasted injustices, that's the group that we align with in terms of that category. And if there's a group that says, nope, everything's equal. Everybody's always been equal and we don't have to look past because blah blah blah, and there's no such thing as a head start. And that does not reflect the reality of black people's lives or the data. And it's not as ideological. It's very scientific this stuff. There's a reason ninety was ninety two percent Black women voted for Kama Harrison, probably more ninety three somewhere in there. I don't think that ninety two percent of black women are uninformed. I don't think that they're wrong whatever duped tricked. I think that that aligns with again, the lived experience. Now do those are their conservative values in.
00:23:13
Speaker 3: Their convers So black men vote for Trump yeah.
00:23:18
Speaker 1: Fair, but you know, to be to be fair, men are the entrepreneurs. Trump is an entrepreneur. Men that didn't vote for a Kamala Harris. You know there there's most most of the black conservatives you're going to find are going to be men, right, So there's always going to be.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: A live experienced also, you're right, were working for the last thing I'm going to say, live experience even than black women.
00:23:40
Speaker 1: But last thing I'm going to say here is that in that election, the two most pronounced voting trends by race were Black women and of course black men. Everybody else was in the middle. But I think that still shows the point that I'm making, which is Black people overwhelmingly. I don't think black people are stupid. I don't think you think that, Amy. I don't think black people are uneducated. I don't think you think that, Amy. I think that black people overwhelmingly understand that of the two parties in this country of that binary, whether or not I identify with some of the values over here, I will support the push and the effort that these people are putting in to actually do something, anything to change the outcomes that we're seeing in the data, and that I don't think it has to be more complicated than that. If Republicans really want to court the black vote, hey, how do you really feel about this, that or the other thing? And what are you going to do about it? Do black people have a different experience in this country? Yes or no? If the Republicans say no, then black people are not going to just be like, all right, well, all ninety three percent of us need to go vote for Republicans. No. Absolutely have a different experience, not just in the data, but in our real lives. You know.
00:25:05
Speaker 2: Look, I think a point of difference obviously between us. How can any group you know succeed or fail? And what are the what are the building blocks for that success or that failure? And I would argue, and I think you would argue. Part of the other side is that I think the more even the playing field. Get out of my way, let me be me, let me do what I need is best for me and my family, You the state, get the l on my way. I think that that's a building block for any.
00:25:36
Speaker 3: Group, right, any group.
00:25:38
Speaker 2: Look, by the way, what you know a staff that I that I love, And I've said a whole bunch of times the price on your show before. Is that one of the most successful if not yeah, if not one of the if not the most successful one the top five most successful immigrant groups in this country are Nigerians, right.
00:25:58
Speaker 3: They don't have the baggage of the the black.
00:26:02
Speaker 2: Community in America who were born here or have you know, generations here right there, they were, They're devoid of that. They came here as from an immigrant experience in Nigeria and there's like, hey man, just let me do my business and I will do for my family. And they're incredibly successful, right, And I think that's a and and they're the they're the largest black immigroup in this country. And I would suggest humbly that that's the model, right, and that I think that you are seeing, Yes, you're there's nothing Obviously you're right about how the legacy of the parties have been toward the black community, although I would argue the Democrats in their history have been just as bad, if not worse.
00:26:41
Speaker 3: A lot of you you know, to.
00:26:44
Speaker 2: Know, even the Dixiecrats in the early in the early twentieth century, you know, I think you know, in the even up to the forties and.
00:26:50
Speaker 1: Well in the last hundred years, I think we have the last hundred years. In the last hundred years, I think we've seen what we're seeing now. But but go ahead, no, But I I think that.
00:27:02
Speaker 2: I do suspect that over the next twenty five years. I think you're going to see the diversity of vote that you see in every other community happen in the black community because you have the diversity of thought in the black community.
00:27:14
Speaker 3: Like we have in any other community.
00:27:16
Speaker 2: Like you just said, is that it's not ninety ten liberal versus conservative in the black community right, In fact, the data shows differently. I think that you will see I think you'll see it more as the DSA gets stronger. I think you're going to see a pushback in the Black community sooner rather than later, because they're gonna say those values.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: Are not my values.
00:27:37
Speaker 2: And given the binary choice between a generic Republican or a DSA candidate, I think you're gonna see a significant wing to Republicans.
00:27:47
Speaker 1: Well, I Ammy, you might be right. There are three hundred thousand black women that lost their jobs last year because Trump put pressure on the private sector to roll back diversity with in initiative conclusions that those three hundred thousand black women professionals would argue with that, but you know, you might be right. But I know that we're short on time. We've been for a long time. We're going over. In fact, I might have to edit this, but I would love for you to keep coming back. I'd love for you to keep having these conversations. I'm really sorry I couldn't get to all the questions, but I love you so much. You're still my brother. You always will be doing if forever. Let everybody know where they can go and see the video of you on the college campus, and of course we're going to make sure that we provide a soft place for you to land next time. You want to come on to the show and we'll keep talking.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure. Just bom Horo it's black political test and Google and it'll all come up. But they go to Ami Horo, it's do they need to socials and.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: They can file o brother Ammy. I love you brother, all right, but well come back anytime.
00:28:50
Speaker 2: Man.
00:28:50
Speaker 1: We'll talk soon, okay.
00:28:51
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:28:52
Speaker 1: Thank you day and be sure to follow us on all social media at Civic Cipher And until next time, y'all. Peace,
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back, Ramse's Jah still in the Saddle. Today's guest. Amy Horwitz is an American conservative documentary filmmaker and activist. He is the writer, producer, and director of the Amy al LUs, the satirical short film series. He's also the host of a recent documentary, The Art of War, looked into the practices of the IDF. Recently, Amy went to Los Angeles Southwest College to ask too he's to take a blind taste test challenge to see if they lean or Republican or Democrat. I'm thank you for hanging out with us, and again, full disclosure of folks and mss versus half. Amy is a friend of the show. Ammy and I see the world in very different ways, but we confer a few times a year. We like to do it for the show, but we also do it in person. Omy is actually my friend. I do care about him, I care about his family, and he is my conservative friend. He gives me insight into a world that I don't fully understand, and I hope that I do the same. And so this is the conversation we're having. It's going to sound like we're not the best of friends, but I can assure you that I love Amy with my whole heart and feels the same way about me. Don't let me speak for you can certainly flatter me all you like on me, But let's get back to the conversation. So the next question that you asked, and we got to get through these little quicker because I want to MA, sure I get them all in. But should parents have more control over education or less control over education? And I think that assigning one of those answers yes or no to Republicans and the other one to Democrats that might be a less than accurate way of determining who value what values a person have. So here's what I'll share, and then of course I want your response. But of course, in this country, parents have the right to homeschool their children or supplement their children's education as they see fit. That is just a general statement I wanted to make. Republicans generally want less federal control over education and more state and parental control, whereas Democrats are more favorable toward federal oversight and public school regulations. And the two parties approach control quote unquote in very different ways, but of course they do approach control right, and that and that and across the different levels of government, local, state, federal. You know, there's different approaches to that. Again, generally speaking, Republican support decentralized power by abolishing or reducing the federal Department of Education and shifting authority back to states and local school districts. Democrats generally view the federal government as an important guaranteur of civil rights, equitable funding, standard support for public institutions. So the the issue isn't necessarily education as a whole.
00:02:51
Speaker 2: One question I would redo that's probably that's part of this one. So that's a fair that's a very fair pushback, and I I think if I had to redo it in like concis is twenty twenty, obviously I probably would have focused more on charter schools as a question.
00:03:06
Speaker 3: Okay, because you know, it's so funny.
00:03:09
Speaker 2: I find that particularly among the black this is everybody, it's not just the black community, but obviously applies to black community.
00:03:16
Speaker 3: That everyone.
00:03:17
Speaker 2: The lived experiences that you have obviously color your perspective on the world. And I think that when it comes to the live experiences of the Black community with education and crime in particular, I think that those are two things they tend to have more conservative beliefs on because that's been their experience, and not about the argument whether not charter schools are better or not better.
00:03:37
Speaker 3: That's not debate on it.
00:03:39
Speaker 2: The reality is that most black people support charter schools because they perceive it as a better school than the local public school. And yeah, all that data and asturity, I've seen that overwhelming support in the inner city for charter schools. Again, not debating which one's more effective, but it's perceived by the black community is more effective and they and they are they are more likely than not to say, hey, yeah, we'd rather apricate in charge school.
00:04:04
Speaker 3: Okay, that's the one one.
00:04:06
Speaker 2: I think that if I had to do a do over, i'd probably do over the language of that one.
00:04:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then just between me and you, of course, and I don't I don't expect you to do it, but yeah, just me and you, that's it. Man, forget the whole world. But uh, but this question just you can push back if you, if you so choose. With this question, I think in the general sense, in terms of Republicans Democrats, has a lot more to do with history. How is history taught? Then it has to do with really anything else with mathematics and algebra and language arts and you know, all the you know sciences and all the sorts of really history the way history is taught, and and watch this. I was very fair here, Amy, So watch this. Democrats generally speaking, want the full history taught, and Republicans generally speaking, prefer selective lessons rolled out at intervals that they deem appropriate. Right, So I don't think I was unkind. You could, of course push back, maybe there's a better way to say it, But I think that that is the difference, the fundamental difference that causes this question to even have the gravity about it that it does. It's really a history question. And so if you wanted to get again to the moral center of a person to determine what they value, what their community values, what they feel is appropriate for not just them but the country in which they live, I think that if we get a little closer, and again, you've already admitted this is a question you would reapproach. But I think that somewhere a little closer to that, I think we might find really what the moral center of these moral is the wrong word. I don't want to say it, because that makes it seem like one group is immorl on the other is moral, and I don't believe that. Yeah, how about ideologically aligned?
00:06:04
Speaker 3: Right?
00:06:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so yeah, that's a fair play. And I appreciate you know, the pushback here.
00:06:10
Speaker 3: By the way, I don't know, I don't know if I agree with you.
00:06:11
Speaker 2: I think that the issue with Republican versus Democrat on curriculum is not that one wants to teach one history versus another history. I think it's more about Republicans just believe, hey, local communities know better than the federal government or what to teach your particular community. And if the black community or charter school whatever it was like, hey, we want to do it with a larger focus on slavery rather than something else, I think republic go, hey, that's look your kids, that you're educating your community.
00:06:41
Speaker 3: And that's fine. I may or may not disagree with that.
00:06:44
Speaker 2: But it's really more about decentralized control and more local control than federal control than actually specifically about how we want to teach history.
00:06:53
Speaker 1: If and when the day comes and we can get into the whys of that, I will welcome that. I will welcome that day because the white I know that you have friends that praguer you, and around here we know fully that praguer you is exceptionally problematic. But I know you to be a decent man, and so I know that you will mount a masterful defense of that, and so I look forward to the day when we can have that conversation. Next question, should there be Okay, this one, I mean you're gonna you're gonna hear it right when I say it. You asked children who have no money on a college campus, should there be generally higher taxes or generally lower taxes? Mike in their face, go give me the answer so you can hear.
00:07:43
Speaker 3: That's so yeah, I don't know, that's so wild.
00:07:46
Speaker 1: I think didn't defend it. Hell, go ahead, man, I'm from here.
00:07:49
Speaker 2: Look, I mean I was a poor student, so I can totally understand that what that's like. Now, the truth is they so they actually don't really pay taxes, right, So the truth is is that the poor you are, the less taxes you're actually paying.
00:08:03
Speaker 3: Are you paying more? Is a percentage of you know, obviously, the argument.
00:08:06
Speaker 2: That a billionaire feels a forty percent tax rate less than a poor person who feels a ten percent tax rate is one hundred percent true by the way, right that, Yeah, forty percent is higher than ten percent of your income. But the truth is, if you're making millions of dollars, forty percent doesn't affect you in a real way like ten percent does and you're poor, totally true. But when you're that young, you're not really paying taxes at the end of the day, you don't make that threshold usually to get over that that number, some do because if some have to work for like for real and pay for for real for like their parents and their families, and that's a different story. And I don't obviously I don't presume to know what each one of their individual situations are like. But look, I think that p I think that sounds like an overly simplistic question, and it is one hundred percent, but I think it does cut to the heart of, Hey, do we want to have a higher tax society in order to pay for things versus a lower tax society with the government's paying for less.
00:09:09
Speaker 1: That would have been a question that I think.
00:09:13
Speaker 3: And yes, okay, I could have yes, there it is. I did kind of toe. You're right, I did kind of touch that.
00:09:18
Speaker 2: But with the should we have again, you had the question from haven't reviewed there in a while? The higher taxes for more social programs?
00:09:26
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I'll get to that.
00:09:27
Speaker 3: I'll get to those two kind of blended. Yeah.
00:09:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, So so give me a second. Okay, So, so my thoughts here were exactly what you said. You know, generally speaking, everyone's going to answer that question, should there generally be higher taxes or lower taxes? Everyone's going to ask that question the same way. The question really is, as you mentioned, what does society look like when there are higher taxes? Are there? Is there better health care, more more accessible health care for more people? Are there less homeless people? Because taxes? You know, what is that? What are the taxes going to? How the taxes improve the health of the general society? And how much of your personal fiscal autonomy do you want to give up in order to live in a society that has less in the way of things that might uh you might want to see or might not want to see, whatever the case is. And so again, just do you want to pay more or less taxes to anybody, even people that don't pay a lot of taxes that you know? And then of course, you know for a person like me with a lot in the way of context, I would point to a lot of the To be fair, they are capitalist countries, but they have exceptionally robust socialist programs and ideologies in terms of the framing of their society. Think you know Norway, Thanks, you know all those places exactly, and they do.
00:10:41
Speaker 2: But wait, if I ask you the question, you would say, higher taxes, right, generally higher taxes right.
00:10:47
Speaker 1: Well, again, it's it's contingent upon like, do I want to give this administration more taxes? No? This administration don't.
00:10:58
Speaker 3: I don't has made you a fiscal concer.
00:11:00
Speaker 1: Perhaps perhaps in this moment you can say that, yeah, but I think you can do better. Man, keep trying, man, But yeah, in the moment, you got me. Okay, But you know, I think your point is well made. And again it's sort of circumstantial just asking that question. I don't think it gets to the thrust of where a person's ideas and who they are as a person would be. So okay, So Amy, there's a handful of questions here leftover. I don't know if we'll get to them, but I do want to make sure that we get in uh sort of your you know, uh ten thousand foot overview of you know, where the black community is or where in your estimation the black community is versus where the black community thinks they are. Are really just some conclusions that you have from this this you know, study, case study on this college campus. So so again, bring us into your experience here and what you've learned.
00:12:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, so again, the video itself is obviously anecdotal. It's not you know, it is a data point obviously, but it's it doesn't it doesn't prove or disprove anything in particular, but it's fine as interesting and it does.
00:12:18
Speaker 3: But then the data does show.
00:12:19
Speaker 2: Something very similar to what the video is trying to imp which is so okay. Obviously, black people have voted overwhelming a Democrat of the last few decades, ninety percent, like it's a very very high number. And what's fascinating is while they vote Democrat, they tend to be against the more progressive movements, right. And a great example is so when you know, obviously we're talking about the DSA real quick but you know, when Bertie Sanders was running against Joe Biden, Bertie Sanders, we kind of forget, but he was running away with the selection. He won I think the first three primaries, and what happened was it went to South Carolina and Jim Clyborne said, no, no, no, no, no, no no, We're not having a comrade Bernie run this party. We're gonna have Uncle Joe run this party. And he put his foot down and the South Carolina voted for Joe Biden and it was lights out for Bernie after that, because I think the black community is like, we're not down with Bernie Sanders, we are not down with the hard left. And look, the DSAS is three maybe four percent Black right over overall community of thirteen to fifteen percent around the country. And again it goes back to the lived experiences, and they're particularly conservative issues, particularly conservative on issues that affect the community. And I we talk education and crime, high belief in God. Something that surprised me a data point by the Brennan Institute, which still get a liberal think tank, was that the majority of not a huge majority, but a majority of black people polled were against Medicare for all. They were for a public choice right and there werefore having medicaid for people who are poor. Medicare people are old. They like the system as it is, but they were against medicare for all, you know, maybe the most. And by the way, I well, I can talk about after I did find the Gotten Mocker Institute, which is the one on later abortion.
00:14:15
Speaker 3: Nice, but.
00:14:17
Speaker 2: It's there's some so for example, some interesting Uh there was a gallop pole done that showed that black people who were identified seventy five percent as liberal twenty years ago now identify at forty eight percent liberal, So a significant decrease.
00:14:31
Speaker 1: And yet and yet do they still vote overwhelming? Okay, all right, continue.
00:14:37
Speaker 2: And I'll take you the most fascinating part of this whole equation is Mom Donnie. Okay, So when Mom Donnie was running for the primary right against I'm donning round the primary against.
00:14:51
Speaker 1: Uh, it doesn't matter. I know you're talking about it.
00:14:54
Speaker 2: I can't think of the name, you know, a a center left candidate versus Mo'm donnie, a hard left candidate. For the primary. Mamdanni got crushed in the black communities. I'm Donnie, what's upo Cuomo? Yes, Cuomo one beat him in all of the Hispanic and most of the black and Hispanic communities, and Madonna got crushed when they ran against each other. As for the for the general election when I'm Donnie ran as a Democrat and Cuomo as an independent. Mom Donnie won the black vote, which was so fascinating and confusing to me, and then I realized it's because he had a d and that they were voting party line right, which again that the Mamdani kind of like explained that the Tani phenomenon explains the black community's voting patterns.
00:15:43
Speaker 3: Right.
00:15:43
Speaker 2: They don't agree with Mam Donnie's position, They prefer the center left positions, but ultimately still reverted back to Democrat right, which I found fascinating.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: Do do you think you know why that is? Because I could tell you.
00:15:56
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll I mean you I opposit at Somebody in my in the video said, I mean, they said a lot of fascinating things. One said, they're voting for Republicans in his communities, like voting for whiteness, right, and they conflate Republican and white, and then the other one another woman said it's political inheritance. But yeah, of course I want to I want the answer.
00:16:22
Speaker 1: I understand why they would say that in the video, and I remember the gentleman you were interviewing saying that I think that they're on the right track, but in terms of which party has actively tried to do things for the black community or gotten behind or supported endeavors intended to benefit the black community. You mentioned the shift away from black people voting Republican to black people voting Democrat. That actually started during the Great Depression and then it culminated in the sixties with Lyndon Johnson. But there started to be a shift away, and it was because the Republicans in power during the Great Depression. There were local and state laws, mostly local laws, but again these were Republicans, and they were prioritizing giving assistance to white families over black families, and Democrats did not have that, or they were campaigning on the fact that that was wrong and that was immoral and unjust. And so that's where you see the shift begin, right and then over the years, the Civil Rights Movement, the BLM protests, you know, these sorts of things, you see a pushback whenever there's this, I guess push forward. You see this push for the advancement of a black agenda, the remedying, the rectifying of past injustices, you know, the teaching of the full accurate history so that white people have context, so they don't grow up and be as racist as the people that we had to grow up with. Right, So all of that stuff happens, and Democrats is the only ones that are actually putting to our Democrats perfect absolutely not. Democrats is the reason why black men and black women aren't married at the same rates. Right, Democrat, I could go through a lot of problems that stem from Democratic legislation, but it's the Republicans that actively, at every point in history over the past one hundred years plus years, pushed back against the decidedly progressive agenda that benefited black people. And so if you have a Democrat running for a Republican you can find black people that say, you know what, my values align with the Republican Party, at least what the Republican Party purports to espouse. My values are there. I believe in Jesus, I believe in God. I don't think that men should do this and women shouldn't do that, and blah blah blah. All there were questions that we haven't gotten to, but that group is the same group with the clan with the Nazis and everybody over there voting is voting for a world that the clan wants to live in and the Nazis want to live in, and they're all helping bring the Nazis vision to life. And the Democrats are the only ones that I see that actually don't have a problem with CRT, with DEI, with any of that Sagan currently or historically both.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: Okay, So obviously differ on that, although not not this by the way, we differ on that to an extent. There is no question that there is that there is a push on a certain portion of the conservative Republican agenda, the isolation's agenda, which is no question.
00:20:15
Speaker 3: Pushing for things like that, Right, And.
00:20:19
Speaker 2: So I don't one hundred percent agree, but I agree a little bit right, more certainly more nastar than was ten.
00:20:26
Speaker 3: Twenty years ago.
00:20:27
Speaker 2: Right, I look, you're everything you said is obviously a hundred century except that I would argue that it depends on how you view on what's better for the black community.
00:20:37
Speaker 3: Right, one would argue, is is.
00:20:41
Speaker 1: Voter disenfranchisement.
00:20:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, again, I don't know. I don't know if Aha lot of people agree with you on voters and franchise.
00:20:49
Speaker 1: So have you seen the response in Alabama and Mississippi and so forth and all those Republican states. How black people have been mobilized and they're turning out in record numbers in response, literally in response to the voter suppression initiatives, the packing, the cracking and packing that was done to weaken the black vote in all those Southern states. This is stuff that we have to cover here for sure.
00:21:11
Speaker 2: But but I by the way, I would but I would say most black people in the and I obviously I did. One of my more famous videos was on voter ide laws in the black community. I would say, if you're if you're north of the Mason Dixon line, I think most black people were like, yeah, I don't see this enfranchise.
00:21:26
Speaker 3: And I want to I'm down with it. I don't.
00:21:29
Speaker 2: I don't feel like maybe some folks in the in the South might feel for it. But I do think that again, the issues that are important to a black family. And by the way, when I say black family, this this goes really large for any family. Right, every family votes based on their lived experiences. Yeah, I think Look, I think you and I are agreement. You do agree with my overall premise that black people are more conservative that most people think they are.
00:21:58
Speaker 1: What I agree with is that black people, I think are more diverse than they're as diverse as any group of people. I would go with that. However, black people's options in a binary will support what the history, the historical and current record suggests is Like. Again, if there's a group talking about reparations to address past injustices, and black people feel that there have been pasted injustices, that's the group that we align with in terms of that category. And if there's a group that says, nope, everything's equal. Everybody's always been equal and we don't have to look past because blah blah blah, and there's no such thing as a head start. And that does not reflect the reality of black people's lives or the data. And it's not as ideological. It's very scientific this stuff. There's a reason ninety was ninety two percent Black women voted for Kama Harrison, probably more ninety three somewhere in there. I don't think that ninety two percent of black women are uninformed. I don't think that they're wrong whatever duped tricked. I think that that aligns with again, the lived experience. Now do those are their conservative values in.
00:23:13
Speaker 3: Their convers So black men vote for Trump yeah.
00:23:18
Speaker 1: Fair, but you know, to be to be fair, men are the entrepreneurs. Trump is an entrepreneur. Men that didn't vote for a Kamala Harris. You know there there's most most of the black conservatives you're going to find are going to be men, right, So there's always going to be.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: A live experienced also, you're right, were working for the last thing I'm going to say, live experience even than black women.
00:23:40
Speaker 1: But last thing I'm going to say here is that in that election, the two most pronounced voting trends by race were Black women and of course black men. Everybody else was in the middle. But I think that still shows the point that I'm making, which is Black people overwhelmingly. I don't think black people are stupid. I don't think you think that, Amy. I don't think black people are uneducated. I don't think you think that, Amy. I think that black people overwhelmingly understand that of the two parties in this country of that binary, whether or not I identify with some of the values over here, I will support the push and the effort that these people are putting in to actually do something, anything to change the outcomes that we're seeing in the data, and that I don't think it has to be more complicated than that. If Republicans really want to court the black vote, hey, how do you really feel about this, that or the other thing? And what are you going to do about it? Do black people have a different experience in this country? Yes or no? If the Republicans say no, then black people are not going to just be like, all right, well, all ninety three percent of us need to go vote for Republicans. No. Absolutely have a different experience, not just in the data, but in our real lives. You know.
00:25:05
Speaker 2: Look, I think a point of difference obviously between us. How can any group you know succeed or fail? And what are the what are the building blocks for that success or that failure? And I would argue, and I think you would argue. Part of the other side is that I think the more even the playing field. Get out of my way, let me be me, let me do what I need is best for me and my family, You the state, get the l on my way. I think that that's a building block for any.
00:25:36
Speaker 3: Group, right, any group.
00:25:38
Speaker 2: Look, by the way, what you know a staff that I that I love, And I've said a whole bunch of times the price on your show before. Is that one of the most successful if not yeah, if not one of the if not the most successful one the top five most successful immigrant groups in this country are Nigerians, right.
00:25:58
Speaker 3: They don't have the baggage of the the black.
00:26:02
Speaker 2: Community in America who were born here or have you know, generations here right there, they were, They're devoid of that. They came here as from an immigrant experience in Nigeria and there's like, hey man, just let me do my business and I will do for my family. And they're incredibly successful, right, And I think that's a and and they're the they're the largest black immigroup in this country. And I would suggest humbly that that's the model, right, and that I think that you are seeing, Yes, you're there's nothing Obviously you're right about how the legacy of the parties have been toward the black community, although I would argue the Democrats in their history have been just as bad, if not worse.
00:26:41
Speaker 3: A lot of you you know, to.
00:26:44
Speaker 2: Know, even the Dixiecrats in the early in the early twentieth century, you know, I think you know, in the even up to the forties and.
00:26:50
Speaker 1: Well in the last hundred years, I think we have the last hundred years. In the last hundred years, I think we've seen what we're seeing now. But but go ahead, no, But I I think that.
00:27:02
Speaker 2: I do suspect that over the next twenty five years. I think you're going to see the diversity of vote that you see in every other community happen in the black community because you have the diversity of thought in the black community.
00:27:14
Speaker 3: Like we have in any other community.
00:27:16
Speaker 2: Like you just said, is that it's not ninety ten liberal versus conservative in the black community right, In fact, the data shows differently. I think that you will see I think you'll see it more as the DSA gets stronger. I think you're going to see a pushback in the Black community sooner rather than later, because they're gonna say those values.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: Are not my values.
00:27:37
Speaker 2: And given the binary choice between a generic Republican or a DSA candidate, I think you're gonna see a significant wing to Republicans.
00:27:47
Speaker 1: Well, I Ammy, you might be right. There are three hundred thousand black women that lost their jobs last year because Trump put pressure on the private sector to roll back diversity with in initiative conclusions that those three hundred thousand black women professionals would argue with that, but you know, you might be right. But I know that we're short on time. We've been for a long time. We're going over. In fact, I might have to edit this, but I would love for you to keep coming back. I'd love for you to keep having these conversations. I'm really sorry I couldn't get to all the questions, but I love you so much. You're still my brother. You always will be doing if forever. Let everybody know where they can go and see the video of you on the college campus, and of course we're going to make sure that we provide a soft place for you to land next time. You want to come on to the show and we'll keep talking.
00:28:38
Speaker 2: It's always a pleasure. Just bom Horo it's black political test and Google and it'll all come up. But they go to Ami Horo, it's do they need to socials and.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: They can file o brother Ammy. I love you brother, all right, but well come back anytime.
00:28:50
Speaker 2: Man.
00:28:50
Speaker 1: We'll talk soon, okay.
00:28:51
Speaker 2: I love it.
00:28:52
Speaker 1: Thank you day and be sure to follow us on all social media at Civic Cipher And until next time, y'all. Peace,
