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In this Mob Mentality Show episode, we dive into the journey of Jeff “Cheezy” Morgan, a coach in Continuous Delivery (CD) and lean thinking. Known for his role in advocating for CD within companies, Jeff shares how his experiences with software development and his recent shift into the café business have shaped his philosophy on people and just-in-time. This discussion explores how Jeff’s approach to Agile and CD evolved, his journey into Extreme Programming (XP), and how mob programming impacted his perspective on teamwork and Continuous Integration (CI).
**Jeff’s Agile and CD Journey**
We start with Jeff’s introduction to Agile, discussing the early days of his career when dev practices didn’t include CD and the impact of adopting CD in high-stakes projects like Y2K. Jeff describes how learning from Thoughtworks influenced his views on XP and CD, and how he became an advocate, eventually taking CD to different organizations. He also shares what it was like discussing with Woody Zuill and Llewellyn Falco and reflects on the transformative role mob programming has played in his career.
**From Pairing to Mobbing**
For Jeff, mob programming was not initially appealing, but over time it became his preferred approach for helping teams. We explore how mobbing enhances CI, tightens communication, and fosters collective learning. Jeff explains how mobbing enables "just-in-time" discussions that align teams on what to build and how it allows real-time feedback on other team members’ learning. Jeff also examines the transition from pairing to mobbing, the challenges of mob programming with CI/CD, and why mobbing helps him “get the whole system in the room” for tackling complex problems.
**Quality Without QA?**
We dive into the controversial idea of achieving high quality without traditional Quality Assurance (QA). Jeff opens up about years spent wrestling with the role of QA in Agile/CD environments and shares experiments with “test-infected” developers—who took full ownership of quality. He reflects on the pitfalls of relying on “heavyweight” traditional QA processes and automated tests, which often create lean waste, add handoffs, and introduce brittle, flakey tests. Jeff and hosts Austin and Chris discuss whether “shift left” is merely a shift away from QA, the Deming Red Bead experiment’s relevance, and whether there’s a happy journey for QA professionals on CD teams.
**Applying Lean to Cafés**
Outside the tech world, Jeff has found a second passion—running cafés. We discuss how owning two cafés influenced Jeff’s perspective on Lean thinking and Agile principles. From supply chain issues during COVID to needing backup suppliers, Jeff discusses if “just-in-time” challenges in the café world mirror software development. He shares valuable insights about hiring, managing consistent delivery, and applying Lean principles to run a resilient business. Additionally, Jeff and Chris exchange stories on chip shortages and if Lean can help address real-world supply chain issues.
**More from Jeff**
Finally, we tackle some big questions: What does DevOps mean in today’s Agile world? Should “DevOps” be responsible for shielding organizations from developers? How does Test-Driven Development (TDD) factor into DevOps scripts, and can mobbing help break down silos that traditionally separated devs, ops, and QA?
Join us for this wide-ranging conversation with Jeff “Cheezy” Morgan to uncover actionable insights for anyone involved in Agile, CD, DevOps, or Lean. Whether you're in software, QA, or running a small business, this episode is packed with valuable takeaways on quality, learning, and resilience.
Video and Show Notes: https://youtu.be/OJ5d6qLIQRY
