WEBVTT
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This episode is sponsored by SmurFit Westrock.
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Doing business in Bentonville means understanding how shoppers behave in real retail environments.
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SmurfFit Westrock delivers sustainable retail displays and packaging design to perform at Chef.
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And locally, our Bentonville sales and design team brings that to life with full color markups, award-winning concepts, and retail style guide expertise.
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You can learn more at SmurfFitWestrock.com.
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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome back to the Marketplace Code.
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Today is a super exciting episode.
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We have Sylvia here joining us today from the Dr.
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Squatch team.
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She's been a valuable client, worked with us for a number of years, and I can't wait to dive in to some of the things that she's been seeing from her perspective on Walmart.
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And, you know, our favorite subject is incrementality and looking at growth.
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So this is going to be some of the topics we're discussing today.
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Obviously, more about beauty as a whole and really just Walmart and CPG.
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And yeah, I'll throw it over to Sylvia to give us a little bit about your background.
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Tell us what you do and uh how it's been.
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Sure.
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Hi, Sylvia.
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Um, director of retail shopper marketing at Dr.
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Squatch.
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Um, what does that mean?
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So there, um, rate retail shopper, I consider this role is um building the connection between the brand and retail.
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Really, what I do is bring this brand exciting moment that people see on TV, um, commercial, in ads, bring to Walmart Shelf.
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How does that translate from a brand moment to people picking out our products at Walmart Shelf or buying on Walmart.com?
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Okay.
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I mean, that's that's definitely massive for especially CPGs.
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It's interesting specifically for Walmart because many brands or you know, companies in the space, they typically think of e-com traffic more towards, let's say, Amazon or more towards the D2C versus thinking of Walmart purely as just a retail, like and maybe you know, some of the shopper marketing and store activations, but to think from your perspective of how can you activate more digitally and using those dollars to drive more traffic in store really is Walmart's goal, right?
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Walmart's trying to evolve within the e-commerce world, really, you know, go head to head with Amazon in e-comm.
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And the fun thing about that is what they really reward is as brands invest more in the digital side and they invest in the e-commerce, it rewards and improves their ability to compete in store.
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This is like what buyers are looking for.
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They're looking for digital penetration, obviously, but then they might also look at things like, hey, how are you driving external traffic to the shelf, right?
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What are you doing as a brand to really highlight your Walmart business instead of just like thinking of Walmart purely as you know a retailer?
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So it's definitely I love to see that, and especially from you know, Dr.
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Squatch's, you know, I would say like a digital native brand, right?
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More like that's where they're known, that's where the peak is, are not, you know, this historical old national brand that's been around for you know forever.
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And just to see like your emphasis and on digital growth for Walmart is really great to see, and Walmart's rewarding that clearly.
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So uh I'd love to learn a little bit more, maybe if you could share about Dr.
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Squash's evolution, you know, give a little bit of a rundown for those who may not know, and then how your relationship with Walmart has been.
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Yeah, a little bit about that.
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Yeah, um, Dr.
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Squash being uh has been founded in back in 2013 um by the founder Jack Haldup.
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He started the brand actually because he has a unique skin condition called um uh psoriasis.
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So that made his skin very sensitive to a lot of traditional chemical-filled products.
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So he's desperately looking for products that could help him to clean himself.
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As a man, he outdoor person, he loves to go out, explore the world, um, of course, get get himself dirty.
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But then he's been challenging trying to find a product that's able to be suitable for his skin.
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So uh he found this cold-pressing soap, this whole process.
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The cold press soap really will help him always full full of natural work, natural um sourced pro ingredients will help his skin, make his skin feel better instead of traditional chemical-filled stuff.
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So that's how he started from started with Dr.
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Squatch and with his initial mission in Dr.
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Squatch until today kept that to the heart.
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Naturally uh sourced uh orange products.
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So as of today, Dr.
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Squatch still holds over 98% of our naturally sourced ingredients.
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It is really hard as we're expanding to multiple categories.
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Our product team could tell you all about it.
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It's extremely difficult to source these natural ingredients, but because the mission, the brand is built on that, that's how the brand wanted to maintain until today.
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Um, star from the 2013, uh very fun funding story.
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He um he grew the brand naturally, start first step, D2C, directly to shopper consumers.
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And that's most shoppers initially know about Dr.
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Squatch.
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We developed a solid team to grow this brand digitally directly to consumer.
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About uh five, six years ago, the brand realized um they needed a next phase, next leap.
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So they discussed with a couple retailers, Walmart and Kroger became the first two retailers Dr.
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Squatch worked with.
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And start from the same year, Dr.
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Squatch launched the very first Super Bowl ads to help to sell in all the Walmart products.
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Of course, the product flew off the shelf, start from that year.
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And every single year, you'll hear Dr.
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Squatch getting into more and more retailers.
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As of today, pretty much all the retail places you could see, you could shop at United States, you got to see Dr.
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Squatch.
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Most definitely.
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Wow, that's a that's a cool story.
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I love sticking to the mission.
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Super, super important.
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I I love that.
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I I could resonate not quite on the natural side, but definitely on like the the Walmart focus and you know the the importance of like, you know, that's your goal.
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That's really what got you started as a company.
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Yeah, be happy.
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Yeah, for sure.
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For sure.
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I like that.
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My daughter, her skin is is really like I don't know, her her legs are all messed up.
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I don't know what what's going on.
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So maybe I have to get her some.
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I know maybe I'll get on the on the jukebox line.
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Uh so super.
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We just launched on Walmart.com about like a week and a half ago.
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It's called like a baby squatch.
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Okay, awesome.
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Well, there you go.
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Okay.
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Yeah, we actually just put paid search behind these, performed very well.
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I should know.
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I should know this.
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Honestly, I should know this.
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That's really good.
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Okay, that's really good to know.
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I'll get it for her, for her legs.
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I don't know what's what's going on over there.
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But yeah, that's that's really cool.
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I loved I love to hear that story.
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I'm curious, when did like uh Amazon start?
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Was that also something that's been from the start?
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Was that like after the D the C?
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Did that come in at some point?
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Uh Amazon started in between the past about four or five years during the retail launches.
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Oh, okay.
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So it's also been more of a recent thing.
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It's it's interesting.
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I remember, I don't even know, maybe 10 years ago, seeing like the Dr.
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Squatch on a YouTube ads, maybe like for mostly the bar soap.
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So it's definitely cool to see.
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Remember seeing that as like uh, you know, as a kid, like, oh, here's something, here's a brand that's like coming out and really coming into the space, and now it's like, okay, they have a massive Walmart business now, and I get to, you know, get to help out, help out with running that.
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So obviously, yeah, go ahead.
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I I like how you mentioned that because that's a lot of time um most of shoppers initially we we hear, like before our retail growth.
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So we hear a lot of shoppers heard um tried of us or heard of us like through ads.
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Dr.
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Squatch, known within the CPG industry for its unique, culture-relevant ads and funny humor type of ads.
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So that's where initially helped it boot it up organically, digitally, people having conversation online, chat rooms.
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You gotta see people talk about hey, have you heard of Dr.
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Squatch?
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But most recently, after our success retail expansion, I've heard a lot of people mention, oh yeah, I actually saw you at Walmart, I saw you at Costco.
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I think that's another thing like really proves us our retail success way we're able to transfer a brand from a digital only brand to more retail brick and mortar stores.
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Oh, most definitely.
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I mean, that's that's definitely such a great, such a great way to put it.
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Um and yeah, now I I do see it, you know.
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I've you know been it's been late night in a CVS, just trying to pick up some some uh prescription or something, and they're you know, prominently on the shelf.
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Tot your Dr.
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Squatch over there.
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Um I also like to the point of the the visibility outside, I I always see like you know, the don't tell comedy, you know, that that that I always see those those, yeah.
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And that's like that's some good stuff.
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I like the uh you know, I'm I enjoy I enjoy a lot of comedy, so it's definitely cool to see like the the mix of the of the work and the and the personal is uh is always fun.
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Um so obviously, you know, you've seen this great success over these past few years.
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Um obviously the goal is always to continue to grow.
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You bring in new lines, new, new, new different products.
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You mentioned expansion to all these different areas.
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What, you know, what I guess what do you look at that really drive success?
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Like let's get let's get technical with it.
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Like what how do you look at success?
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What does growth look like to you?
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I know you're you're want to really get into the weeds of the data, which is you know something I really appreciate.
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What are what are some of those biggest levers or the biggest the biggest goals you really look for to identify what growth means?
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Yeah, so way I mentioned that we're in pretty much all the retail.
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That's that's to me as a retail background person, that's step one.
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It's not the end goal.
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The step two is how to grow within our retail space.
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And retailers are evolving every day as well.
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Um, Walmart, Target, they have their own uniqueness.
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We hear talk so much about Walmart.
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Sometimes I a lot I cover all the retailers.
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So I get to see what's going on at Target side, what's going on at like Costco's side, Sam's Club side.
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So all these different things.
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Um, something I noticed that retailer involving traditional way think of retailers is physical broken mortar stores, right?
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Walmart, Target, you have to physically go to that store.
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But as retailer more involving to younger shoppers, Gen D shopping behavior, they consume media online, they make the purchase online.
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So I've seen retailers purposefully driving, making that decision to encourage the online shopping.
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As for Walmart, we know every day it is like EDLP, every day is low price.
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Um, funny enough, lately on the Target side, I've noticed if you make a purchase on the app online, the price is quite different than the in-store.
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Um, I actually talked to Target customer service inside the store.
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I was like, hey, what's going on?
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I see$4 less online, but when I decide to show up in-store, why it's like the original price, they have to mention to me that, oh, it's because we're encouraging you to uh place an order and pick up in-store.
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This consider when this consider like Walmart, consider digital purchase, right?
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It's a pickup in-store, consider digital purchase.
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And Target purposefully using price uh to drive shopper, to incentivize shopper to consciously making that dot-com decision.
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And on the Walmart side, I see the company for as a brand, we want to grow with the retailer together, follow their direction.
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Wherever they are gonna grow, we need to go with them.
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And on Walmart side, we're seeing a lot more digital expansion, purposefully changing their strategy to make their ads more capable, doing more things, just like all other competitors, in industry leaders, continue to re-innovated themselves, continue to making the measurement more accurate across all different tactics Walmart is offered.
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I think a conscious decision such such as this, uh retailers are making really encourages shoppers to purposefully making the online decision as a for brand.
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We're not only need to understand what are these changes, what are these trends, how they're changing, and adopting go with them.
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And also we need to understand a shopper when how these are impact shoppers' normal shopping behaviors.
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How can we provide that convenience to shopper at their the point of making decisions?
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Right.
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That's that's super interesting.
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Uh, the dynamic, you know, between these, how these different retailers are approaching it.
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Obviously, it's a big race right now, e-commerce as a whole, and to see that, you know, Target taking obviously different methods than than Walmart is.
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Um, obviously, Amazon kind of, you know, being obviously the historical or today is still the e-commerce leader and king, um, how they view the omnibusiness and curious how that's how that's going to move.
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Um, what I find fascinating for Dr.
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Squatch specifically is you have like, I don't know, would you is it considered like premium?
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Would it be a premium brand in terms of like value versus premium?
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And then you consider that versus how Walmart is.
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We call it Mass Teach.
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It's a Pur Steach brand for Wisney Mass Market.
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Call it Mass Teach brand.
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Snow Cork is a full service agency exclusively for Walmart, helping brands maximize digital self-penetration through omni-channel strategies that span both in-store and online, from content and advertising to retail media and social proof, Cell Core gives brands everything they need to grow across the full Walmart ecosystem.
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Okay, that's great.
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And that's the having that prestige is like compared to maybe what you consider the cheaper products that you would expect to have in Walmart.
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But the fact that you guys are a brand who is in this mass teach uh you know space, but yet you are still seeing a lot of the success in Walmart really shows, I think, even how Walmart has evolved too is you would maybe expect this to be a target brand, or maybe you know, some of these other maybe, you know, e-com obviously makes a lot of sense, but not to see that Walmart's evolution.
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We've seen this across many spaces, um, many spaces, especially I think within you know personal care and beauty, specifically, those are areas that Walmart's really pushing for and driving for.
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And even the customer base, right?
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You mentioned your customer base today, more around Gen Z, kind of like the style of like what they're of what they're really hitting on.
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Um, is something that maybe that's an area that Walmart can use more of those, that more of that demographic to shop with them, right?
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They've been pushing historically.
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You could think of a Walmart shopper.
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Historically, it's been a little bit of an older demographic, but as they continue to evolve now and they need to win in dot com, it's multifaceted.
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Is they need, say, they need the shoppers who are going to shop, you know, that are, you know, more digital native, who are going to be shopping more from an e-commerce lens, but they also need the brands who these shoppers buy, right?
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They may not want some of these more traditional, you know, older brands that maybe are not as not don't really work as well with it with a younger audience, especially a very natural, a very, you know, a very organic and healthy brand uh like yourselves, which is you guys are really pushing for this health conscious, which is obviously a really big, a really big right now amongst amongst the younger generation.
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So it's really cool to see the uh like that's I I think where a lot of success is.
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You know, a lot of brands who we've you know, we've come to us over the years, they maybe are have this uh certain stigma about what Walmart is, and they're like, oh, I don't think this is the right fit for us, you know, or we're we're we're premium, we're we have this prestige, and we're not, you know, we're not gonna go into this.
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And it's like, no, you could see now the brands that have leaned in, you know, yourselves, you could see again a number of other ones.
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I know obviously La Roche-Possay was one of the more popular ones their CFO announced um in the recent earnings.
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That's another premium beauty brand that has come to the market to really, you know, bring it brings with the customers, it brings with the demographic, it just is it's showing where the direction is that Walmart's going.
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So I definitely love to see that because that is how Walmart wins in e-commerce.
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They win from having these, from having these brands.
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I think one thing as a brand, regardless to what's your position, we we know Walmart is one of the biggest retailers in the United States.
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And we often, when we talk with our Walmart merchant, they often say, you know, Walmart means America.
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Like Walmart represents America shoppers, which is true based, we all be in the business with Walmart for years.
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We know traditional Walmart and we're seeing Walmart involving and engaging.
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So um now I see more and more ads on Walmart that's more fashion-driven, like instead of more like a grocery, like everyday trip.
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Europeans are slowly thinking Walmart more cool, more fashion.
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They offer different, you know, one year on Walmart app, I've saw Tiffany Bricelet, love bristle, and that's like a couple thousand dollars, probably it somewhere could go ten thousand dollars, and that's being on Walmart as well.
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So that's why I don't think if your prestige brand, Walmart is not your place.
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That's not true.
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Because if if your brand served for American shoppers, then here it's largest place for you to play with.
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:55.039
I love that.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:00.240
That is that is that is so so much of the truth that Walmart's really just pushing out today.
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.160
And you could see, I mean, even the evolution of the stores and how they look now.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.599
I think there's you know some naming they have for the background, store 2.0 or something.
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.559
I don't know, something like that.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.200
And you could see the actual stores just look so much more, you know, premium now.
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:17.839
Like they have like even even like the beauty section, like you could just see they've really made it look good.
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.400
They're really leaning in more to the trends, you know.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.920
They are they are doing a lot of work to really capture this demographic.
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:34.319
And I guess, you know, these brands are who are really not engaging, they're the ones that are gonna eventually be like, oh, I realize I my mistake, and now you have to play catch up.
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:46.240
You're no longer in a position of these brands who are coming to the space, and you have the ability now to really win against if we think of like the evolution of where Walmart's going with e-commerce, we're still very much in the early stages.
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.720
It's only going to evolve drastically, right?
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.680
I mean, just let's think from the digital penetration number, right?
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.160
This is obviously what merchants are pushing for today.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:19:01.359
Um, Walmart's really aiming to get to that 50%, let's say, digital penetration number as you know, as a whole, something along those lines.
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:08.000
You know, we've heard some from some merchants, but you look at the reality, and some of these brands are, you know, in that still in the in the single digits, yeah.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:21.440
And you have some in the low tens, some of them, some of the, you know, the more maybe newer ones to the market are in that in the 20s, but like you don't really see so much of that bigger at the bigger, um, the bigger numbers because the evolution is really still growing.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:30.240
Today, Walmart is still super strong and dominating within the retail, and they continue to do that, but like they need and they are working on evolving into e-commerce.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:45.200
So what that equals is now there is the investment you have to make in e-commerce is not necessarily as strong as it's going to need to be in a number of years if you're launching at that point, because there's let's say there's low fewer comp competitors, the bids are let's say lower, whatever the specifics are.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.920
There's when there's less competition because it's not as much of a market, it's cheaper to invest.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:59.200
Versus if a brand comes to Walmart in five years, suddenly when you know the e-commerce piece is significantly larger than it is today, as we've seen drastic year-over-year growth, it's only going to be more expensive.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:13.920
So, really, this is a really call to action for these brands to you know, don't have don't worry about this stigma that you know it doesn't really exist today and really come to the platform and really start to engage with the customers and seeing that there is actually America over here purchasing your products.
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:15.839
So I really like that.
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:28.559
I'm curious, you guys, obviously being a CPG, you have you know significant budgets that you're investing within, you know, advertising, off-site, but specifically in Walmart, um, how do you kind of view?
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:35.200
I'm a big proponent of looking at a dollar you invest in Walmart today is not the same as a dollar you invest in Amazon.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:40.400
And like when you invest in Amazon a dollar, you're getting that five dollar OS, you're getting that return.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:40.960
That's it.
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.400
You're that is the dollar you're getting.
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:43.680
There is some incrementality to it.
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:57.680
Versus in Walmart, when you're investing that dollar today, even if you get that$5 OS or whatever the ROS is, you're also investing in that store business, which doesn't directly relate to that dollar you're spending here, but it shows you can now go to your merchant and you can have that conversation.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:11.200
Look, I invested, you know, 500k in the last couple of months here in in Walmart to drive X amount of digital sales, unlock more one-piece inventory, unlock more stores, unlock you know, more product lines.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:16.799
You could see that I'm investing in you as a company, and that should unlock and then further omnibusin.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:23.359
And I think this is like a perspective that you know a lot of brands are starting to develop, and they realize that that's not necessarily apples to apples.
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.799
When you think of Amazon sales or or advertising versus Walmart advertising.
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:35.279
So I'm really curious from your perspective, you know, being the one to really, you know, finalize hey, here's what we're gonna be spending, here's and here's you know how we're gonna measure success.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.160
What do you what do you take a look at when you're making those decisions?
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.200
Yeah.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:51.359
So one thing within our team, we constantly uh we realize we don't talk too much, and a lot of other brands, company tend to talk a lot is ROS.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:58.880
So we don't focus on ROS and why the reason is that is what is our goal.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.759
Our goal.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.960
Is not truly get higher return on ad spends, right?
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.920
Like if if you give uh spend ads on someone who is going to buy Dr.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.680
Squatch 100% Dr.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.920
Squatch fanatic, a loyalist, your return is going to be extremely high.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.319
Sure.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.920
And that could make the stories number look so much beautiful.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.880
And that's not our goal as a marketer, and particularly within the retail business.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.880
Our goal is how can we see drive that incrementality?
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:29.839
We know Dr.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.440
Squatch is a very trendy brand.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:44.960
It's a brand that young people naturally talk about because the brand awareness, because that that brand is creating funny humor, like you said, content that people relate to.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.519
So there's this upper level conversation.
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.200
We know that's happening.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:59.519
And how can we use our media dollar to drive that conversation, to convert that conversation to incremental dollar, to incremental return?
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:14.400
So that's where I'm thinking way naturally, organically going to have a group shopper because they're engaging on the ads, because they're engaging overall conversation, they won't buy on Walmart or somewhere else.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.920
They pick their channel.
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:23.440
Then what we want an investment on particular retail platform is really driving that incrementality.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.799
And what is the right way to look at incrementality?
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:28.480
Um, there's different ways.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:40.400
Definitely ROS, I would not recommend that's the right way to look at um look at total business growth, how we're looking at year over year, organic growth, paid growth.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:47.519
And but overall, for us, we wanted to truly find and look at that incrementality.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.680
That's how we measure success, not just simply based on ROS.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:53.680
So I think that's very important.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.480
That is, it is, that is extremely important.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.319
I really like that point of the loyalist.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:02.799
And we've we've had customers historically, like all they care about is ROAS.
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:04.720
And I'm like, yeah, there is a place.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.920
ROAS has a place.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:13.680
I think it's more of a more granular metric that you can use if you're have specific keywords that you need some success with understanding one versus the other.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:22.400
But to purely just have an overall ROS number that is important to you, to your point, is you might just be cannibalizing on sales that you could be having today.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.640
You could just purely, you want a good ROAS?
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:26.640
I'm just gonna bid on Dr.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.519
Squatch as a keyword, and I will have the best ROAS ever.
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.680
Am I gonna have any increase in my sales?
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:33.519
My tacos is probably gonna go up.
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:36.319
I'm not gonna see my new to brand is probably gonna shrink.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.680
These are just your conversion rates are gonna be beautiful and your ROS is gonna be great.
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.240
But obviously, you would have those sales anyways.
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.440
And these are just kind of some of the problems that we notice.
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:51.599
And unfortunately, I think a lot of agencies are also incentivized incorrectly to chase ROAS.
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.359
And like we've seen this where you know we've audited or you know, work with other accounts.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.759
It's like, why are you bidding so much on branded terms?
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.880
And it's like, well, uh, it gives us a much better ROAS.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:05.519
No kidding, it gives you much better ROAS than everything else, but it's not actually driving any incrementality.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.119
So that's that's very interesting.
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:19.839
And now, what I really like one of the new strategies today is with negation, that's now with negative targeting in auto campaigns, is making sure that all these campaigns are just fully restricted on any branded terms.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.440
Like we want to have nothing in that.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:26.319
I still believe it's important to bid on branded terms from a defensive measure, right?
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.240
That's important, but you are the most relevant to those terms, and you could you should be winning those at base bids.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:45.519
Oftentimes we see silly enough, the brand will compete against itself if you have multiple campaigns both going for branded terms, especially if you have an auto campaign and a manual campaign going against branded terms, you're now competing with yourself and you're driving up your own CPCs.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:46.559
I hijack surprise.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:46.960
Yeah.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.279
Yeah, it's just it's just it's just yeah, it's it's not good.
00:25:49.359 --> 00:26:14.400
So that's why like it's important, like negate the auto, use the auto negate, and just purely leave auto really on the terms that you want, maybe new placements or just identifying new new areas to work and have the manual, very low bids for your for your branded terms, and even for the terms that you that you have good relevancy on, terms that you want to be always on, having the manual campaigns over there structured and leaving them negated on auto.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:20.000
I don't think like I think it's bad to have a keyword in both auto and a manual because you're just fighting for each other.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:28.720
Could be branded, could be not branded, and that's what really allows you to now really be highly focused on your spends for these for these um for these keywords.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.319
And I think not every category probably performs the same.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:39.200
And where I do like auto, particularly on Walmart's platform, is they are having a lot of auto-exclusive placement.
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:39.599
Yes.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:46.079
So these are almost in order to win in these places, you need to place within autospace.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:46.400
Yeah.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:47.920
And for us, Dr.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:57.920
Squatch, uh, we just need to find out what is the right balance between auto manual, now sponsor brand, all of this video content that comes to play.
00:26:58.079 --> 00:26:59.200
What is the right balance?
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:06.720
What is the right amount, that's the right mix, you're doing the right ratio to reach our incrementality goal.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:07.599
Yes, yes.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.839
I I I think that's that's that's a really good point for the auto placements.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:28.000
Like that's I think it's important to have it always on auto, but like as really using that purely as like a source to either harvest new keywords that we then put into a manual, unless the bid is so low that it's worth just keeping in the auto, but you know, and that's uh out out for debate.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.599
And just really just using it as a source to harvest and gain additional placements.
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:37.839
But really, every keyword that we know is doing well for these products, they should be structured properly properly in those manual campaigns.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.759
And then this is an interesting point you mentioned, like we're out, we're else, right?
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:47.599
There's obviously sponsored brands, sponsored video, you know, you know, some some up more upper funnel tactics that exist.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:54.960
There it's an interesting one because I think also there, if we look purely at ROS, it's not gonna be as good.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:00.000
The placements cost more, they're more premium, you're not, you know, they do have a better placement on site, obviously.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:05.599
But if you again, if you're purely looking at it from a Ross perspective, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be as good a sponsored product.
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:11.519
But if you look at it from the bigger perspective, that oh, I would need to get more eyes in front of my merchant, right?
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:22.240
I need I need to make sure that for let's say a new line that I'm launching, that if a merchant in that space is looking it up, that they're gonna see my product is prominently displayed over there with a ver with a brand and a video.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:30.240
Again, maybe you didn't make that two dollars uh or whatever that your raw ass is terrible on it, but what if that your conversation with your line review you have the following week?
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.319
They're like, Oh yeah, I did see your product over there.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:37.599
Now suddenly you're getting, you know, you're getting on you're getting a massive placement in store or whatever it is, you're getting a test.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.200
So really every dollar you invest goes significantly further.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:58.720
And it's kind of hard to measure that incrementality because most brands, you know, are not if you take a look at your total, total tacos, like not just your e-com tacos, but your total sales tacos, it's always going to be very small, especially where Walmart is massively in store today, but there still is obviously some sort of factoring to that.
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:04.319
And I think that's where like it's important, like from your like I love like from your perspective, you're not like siloed.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.119
It's not like, oh, retail is one thing, e-commerce is another thing.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.240
We have to think about two different things.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:12.079
It's like, no, this is one Walmart business, and I need to think of both of those things together.
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.359
And I think that brands who look at it from that lens really see the most success.
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.440
Yeah, because I I think coming from like you and me are shoppers.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:23.119
We we buy things, we buy things randomly on Amazon, Walmart.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.920
We don't consider ourselves, I'm an Amazon shopper, I'm a Walmart in-store shopper.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.640
We consider we're shoppers, we're looking for this and that.
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.920
We're looking for a shampoo or looking for a body wash.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:41.119
So whatever's convenience for me at that moment, I'm too lazy, don't want to go out, I shop online, right?
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:46.000
So I don't think uh we need a separate uh in-store and dot-com business.
00:29:46.079 --> 00:30:02.000
I do think an army shopper, army business, how retailer approaches their army business, they are leveraging dot com to drive more foot traffic and leverage physical space to drive more dot-com um impact.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:10.559
So they are purposely trying to combine this to build this army, army image, army shopping experience for shoppers.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.400
As a brand, we should consider that's an army business as well.
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:23.359
And like you said, when we talk a little bit in details, that dive into the detail metrics, is this driving incrementality?
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:27.920
Is that giving me uh more eyeballs, like upper final tactics?
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:32.559
Yeah, how to measure that something I look at is new to brand.
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.880
We mentioned it's a very important metrics.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:42.000
If you look at sponsor brand videos, maybe that's one of the highest uh bit in terms CPM, CPC.
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:43.680
But look at new to brand.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.720
Does that help your brand bring into new shoppers?
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:50.640
If the answer is yes, then I think that that's really a good placement.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.319
You should continue to put your ads there.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.200
Yeah, and another interesting point, specifically on like sponsor brand and video, is it may not always be about the dollar that you make over there.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.079
Sometimes a customer searches on a body wash, right?
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.240
Right.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.920
And then they just watch the video, yeah, and then they click on the sponsor search or they click on organic placement, they buy it.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.000
Like it's hard to really tell.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:15.759
There's it's it's not like a display ad where you get a CPM and like, oh, you were impacted by this.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:26.960
Like, you don't really have as much of that clarity into the path of purchase from like, oh, they were an impression was received of the sponsored brand and video at the same time that they also clicked.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:28.480
Like it would I would love to see, honestly.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:34.559
I think uh Walmart's done some work out with Connect to give kind of like that full like cross, uh I forget what they call it.
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.359
There's like a there is a page that does show you like the full measurement.
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:44.160
Um, if you are running some of the more ARPO funnel tactics, but I think from a sponsored brand and video, I don't think they're Cintella decision tree, yeah.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:51.279
Oh yeah, that that that there definitely is, yeah, from the Scintilla perspective, which oh man, that's a whole other that's a whole other can't can't open on Cintilla's side.
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.359
Yeah, I I think look at it this way.
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:58.559
Um as brand, understand your shopper's um lifetime value, right?
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:07.359
Uh a shopper you bring in, like cost cost of bringing shopper, either through um sponsor brand or through other tactics.
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:15.920
Um what however that much cost, consider a lifetime value of this shopper, like what that's gonna balance out.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.799
So I think that's another interesting point to look at.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:33.119
If the life uh value of shopper is much, much, much higher to that afford and their shopper sticky, more sticky, you as a brand, you probably could afford a little bit higher to acquire these shoppers.
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:33.920
Most definitely.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:34.640
Most definitely.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:35.519
It's actually interesting.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:36.960
I have a question on this.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:46.960
As a whole, do you find like most of your shoppers are using subscriptions to purchase your products, or most of them really just kind of one-off as they need the products?
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:53.599
Um, on our D2C business, we could see a lot of time it's subscription-based.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.200
And even we are launching um like a limited edition.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:58.640
That's where another thing Dr.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.359
Squatch gets shopper gets super excited about Dr.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.000
Squatch.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:06.799
We've no we've seen that it's come out as a baker bundle.
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.559
It's not individual soaps.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:18.640
So we eventually want shopper to experience everything and drive them that into a more uh recurring revenue type type of like a funnel.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:29.359
Um the Walmart side, we notice Walmart starts having more subscription options as well, just like any other like Amazon giant, e-commer giants do.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:37.039
So uh because they shop uh retailer and everyone knows that they once a shopper starts subscribed, right?
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.880
How how often they cancel subscription.
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:46.000
There are so many businesses that like trying to guess how many subscription you have, a lot of the time people get wrong because they forget to renew.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:53.440
And also that shows uh when people click that button to subscribe, it shows the loyalty they demonstrate to your brand.
00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:00.319
They're willing to continue, at least continue to receive more than one, um, whatever that that will be.
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:15.119
Um, I would say from a retail perspective, um, even though we don't have the subscription right now turned on for Walmart, um, but how to drive shopper back, that's another interesting task.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.320
We all need to know.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.599
We know when shopper first shop at Dr.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:21.199
Scratch, a lot of them excited.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.280
Wow, you have beautiful packaging.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:29.679
I love your collaboration with um Star Wars, Harry Potter, they're different fanatics.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:38.000
They we we know that these limitation that drive excitement of the brand and drive a lot of new shoppers into our brand.
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:55.280
And since as a brand, next thing we need to figure out is how to maintain the shopper, not only buy this new cool once a month or like less uh more frequent drops, uh, limitation, but also stick to our core business.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:02.719
As your everyday, you're using the core business because you love the scent or you believe the brand, you want the natural soap products.
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.760
And limititions are fun, engaging.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.360
It's limited.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.079
You buy once, you may not want to use it.
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:21.280
You could collect it, you could save it, and but core still that traditional core bread and butter type of um business, that's what a brand that truly supports the brand.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.159
Super interesting.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.960
I'm curious, like there's obviously like you have like retargeting campaigns that you could run directly to hit like you know, past purchasers.
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:44.159
I think even like even beyond just the expansion into like other, you know, these these uh these limited editions, there's also as you guys expanding or continuously expanding into other product lines, like how you could just hit continuously shoppers from that angle.
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:51.119
Like let's say someone's purchasing your shampoo, boom, you hit them with a conditioner, hit them with the body wash, the deodorant, you know, whatever, any of the other, any of the other product lines.
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:52.800
I think that's also something that's very interesting.
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.639
Really bringing the full ecosystem together is you know so impactful.
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:57.679
Yeah.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:35:58.239
Yeah.
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.559
Well, no, this is any any other thoughts.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.559
You have any like like closing ideas or thoughts you want to share around Dr.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.960
Squatch, IUC Walmart, uh, just any anything final?
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.119
Um, I think Walmart as one of the largest retail partners Dr.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:18.800
Squatch has um definitely, I would say, grow with how the retailer wanted to grow.
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:21.199
Stick with them, grow together.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.119
That's one super important thing.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:33.519
Second is understand your shopper, knows when they entry, where the entry, and how much they spend, and try how to convert the shopper to loyal shopper.
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:41.440
These are things that marketer, retail marketers need to figure out particular that fits for your business within that certain retailer.
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:42.559
Awesome, awesome.
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:43.519
Well, thank you so much.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.679
I don't think we've ever on the show gotten into the weeds of campaign structure.
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.639
So I like that, like, you know, we're able to get you know, a level of depth, a level of like high level over here.
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.719
This has been, you know, super fun, super interesting.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.960
Obviously, thank you so much for coming out, Sylvia.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.880
And yeah, this has been this has been great.
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.719
Everyone, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Marketplace Code.
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.960
Make sure to subscribe and we'll see you next time.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.679
Thank you.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:12.000
This episode is sponsored by SmurFit Westrock.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:19.199
Doing business in Bentonville means understanding how shoppers behave in real retail environments.
00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:26.480
SmurfFit Westrock delivers sustainable retail displays and packaging design to perform at Chef.
00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:38.240
And locally, our Bentonville sales and design team brings that to life with full color markups, award-winning concepts, and retail style guide expertise.
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From concept through production, POP and fulfillment, we help brands win where decisions are made.
00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.479
You can learn more at SmurfFitWestrock.com.
00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:49.439
Hello, everyone.
00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:51.039
Welcome back to the Marketplace Code.
00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:52.719
Today is a super exciting episode.
00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:55.200
We have Sylvia here joining us today from the Dr.
00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:56.240
Squatch team.
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She's been a valuable client, worked with us for a number of years, and I can't wait to dive in to some of the things that she's been seeing from her perspective on Walmart.
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And, you know, our favorite subject is incrementality and looking at growth.
00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:10.239
So this is going to be some of the topics we're discussing today.
00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:14.719
Obviously, more about beauty as a whole and really just Walmart and CPG.
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And yeah, I'll throw it over to Sylvia to give us a little bit about your background.
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Tell us what you do and uh how it's been.
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Sure.
00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:22.879
Hi, Sylvia.
00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:25.760
Um, director of retail shopper marketing at Dr.
00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:26.879
Squatch.
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Um, what does that mean?
00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:38.239
So there, um, rate retail shopper, I consider this role is um building the connection between the brand and retail.
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Really, what I do is bring this brand exciting moment that people see on TV, um, commercial, in ads, bring to Walmart Shelf.
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How does that translate from a brand moment to people picking out our products at Walmart Shelf or buying on Walmart.com?
00:01:58.959 --> 00:01:59.200
Okay.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:03.120
I mean, that's that's definitely massive for especially CPGs.
00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:29.280
It's interesting specifically for Walmart because many brands or you know, companies in the space, they typically think of e-com traffic more towards, let's say, Amazon or more towards the D2C versus thinking of Walmart purely as just a retail, like and maybe you know, some of the shopper marketing and store activations, but to think from your perspective of how can you activate more digitally and using those dollars to drive more traffic in store really is Walmart's goal, right?
00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:35.120
Walmart's trying to evolve within the e-commerce world, really, you know, go head to head with Amazon in e-comm.
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And the fun thing about that is what they really reward is as brands invest more in the digital side and they invest in the e-commerce, it rewards and improves their ability to compete in store.
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This is like what buyers are looking for.
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They're looking for digital penetration, obviously, but then they might also look at things like, hey, how are you driving external traffic to the shelf, right?
00:02:55.280 --> 00:03:02.240
What are you doing as a brand to really highlight your Walmart business instead of just like thinking of Walmart purely as you know a retailer?
00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:06.000
So it's definitely I love to see that, and especially from you know, Dr.
00:03:06.159 --> 00:03:10.800
Squatch's, you know, I would say like a digital native brand, right?
00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:18.400
More like that's where they're known, that's where the peak is, are not, you know, this historical old national brand that's been around for you know forever.
00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:25.680
And just to see like your emphasis and on digital growth for Walmart is really great to see, and Walmart's rewarding that clearly.
00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:29.280
So uh I'd love to learn a little bit more, maybe if you could share about Dr.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:35.840
Squash's evolution, you know, give a little bit of a rundown for those who may not know, and then how your relationship with Walmart has been.
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:37.439
Yeah, a little bit about that.
00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:38.800
Yeah, um, Dr.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:46.479
Squash being uh has been founded in back in 2013 um by the founder Jack Haldup.
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:54.080
He started the brand actually because he has a unique skin condition called um uh psoriasis.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:04:01.439
So that made his skin very sensitive to a lot of traditional chemical-filled products.
00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:06.240
So he's desperately looking for products that could help him to clean himself.
00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:13.919
As a man, he outdoor person, he loves to go out, explore the world, um, of course, get get himself dirty.
00:04:14.080 --> 00:04:20.800
But then he's been challenging trying to find a product that's able to be suitable for his skin.
00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:26.000
So uh he found this cold-pressing soap, this whole process.
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The cold press soap really will help him always full full of natural work, natural um sourced pro ingredients will help his skin, make his skin feel better instead of traditional chemical-filled stuff.
00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:41.759
So that's how he started from started with Dr.
00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:44.720
Squatch and with his initial mission in Dr.
00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:48.240
Squatch until today kept that to the heart.
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Naturally uh sourced uh orange products.
00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:54.560
So as of today, Dr.
00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:59.360
Squatch still holds over 98% of our naturally sourced ingredients.
00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.800
It is really hard as we're expanding to multiple categories.
00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.519
Our product team could tell you all about it.
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It's extremely difficult to source these natural ingredients, but because the mission, the brand is built on that, that's how the brand wanted to maintain until today.
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:21.519
Um, star from the 2013, uh very fun funding story.
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He um he grew the brand naturally, start first step, D2C, directly to shopper consumers.
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And that's most shoppers initially know about Dr.
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:32.079
Squatch.
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:38.720
We developed a solid team to grow this brand digitally directly to consumer.
00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:47.360
About uh five, six years ago, the brand realized um they needed a next phase, next leap.
00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:52.879
So they discussed with a couple retailers, Walmart and Kroger became the first two retailers Dr.
00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:54.399
Squatch worked with.
00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:56.560
And start from the same year, Dr.
00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:02.399
Squatch launched the very first Super Bowl ads to help to sell in all the Walmart products.
00:06:02.639 --> 00:06:05.920
Of course, the product flew off the shelf, start from that year.
00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.480
And every single year, you'll hear Dr.
00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:11.199
Squatch getting into more and more retailers.
00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:18.480
As of today, pretty much all the retail places you could see, you could shop at United States, you got to see Dr.
00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:19.120
Squatch.
00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:19.920
Most definitely.
00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:21.199
Wow, that's a that's a cool story.
00:06:21.279 --> 00:06:22.480
I love sticking to the mission.
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Super, super important.
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I I love that.
00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:32.480
I I could resonate not quite on the natural side, but definitely on like the the Walmart focus and you know the the importance of like, you know, that's your goal.
00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:34.160
That's really what got you started as a company.
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Yeah, be happy.
00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:36.319
Yeah, for sure.
00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:36.800
For sure.
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:37.279
I like that.
00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:41.199
My daughter, her skin is is really like I don't know, her her legs are all messed up.
00:06:41.279 --> 00:06:42.160
I don't know what what's going on.
00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:43.279
So maybe I have to get her some.
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I know maybe I'll get on the on the jukebox line.
00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:46.160
Uh so super.
00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.399
We just launched on Walmart.com about like a week and a half ago.
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It's called like a baby squatch.
00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:54.879
Okay, awesome.
00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:55.439
Well, there you go.
00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:55.680
Okay.
00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:00.079
Yeah, we actually just put paid search behind these, performed very well.
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:01.120
I should know.
00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:02.000
I should know this.
00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:03.360
Honestly, I should know this.
00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:04.079
That's really good.
00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:05.120
Okay, that's really good to know.
00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:06.480
I'll get it for her, for her legs.
00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:08.160
I don't know what's what's going on over there.
00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:09.439
But yeah, that's that's really cool.
00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:10.959
I loved I love to hear that story.
00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:13.279
I'm curious, when did like uh Amazon start?
00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:15.279
Was that also something that's been from the start?
00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:16.720
Was that like after the D the C?
00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:17.759
Did that come in at some point?
00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:23.199
Uh Amazon started in between the past about four or five years during the retail launches.
00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:23.839
Oh, okay.
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:25.279
So it's also been more of a recent thing.
00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:26.480
It's it's interesting.
00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.920
I remember, I don't even know, maybe 10 years ago, seeing like the Dr.
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.839
Squatch on a YouTube ads, maybe like for mostly the bar soap.
00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:35.439
So it's definitely cool to see.
00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:47.439
Remember seeing that as like uh, you know, as a kid, like, oh, here's something, here's a brand that's like coming out and really coming into the space, and now it's like, okay, they have a massive Walmart business now, and I get to, you know, get to help out, help out with running that.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:49.519
So obviously, yeah, go ahead.
00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:57.519
I I like how you mentioned that because that's a lot of time um most of shoppers initially we we hear, like before our retail growth.
00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:02.959
So we hear a lot of shoppers heard um tried of us or heard of us like through ads.
00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:03.439
Dr.
00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:12.560
Squatch, known within the CPG industry for its unique, culture-relevant ads and funny humor type of ads.
00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:22.480
So that's where initially helped it boot it up organically, digitally, people having conversation online, chat rooms.
00:08:22.639 --> 00:08:25.199
You gotta see people talk about hey, have you heard of Dr.
00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:25.839
Squatch?
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:35.360
But most recently, after our success retail expansion, I've heard a lot of people mention, oh yeah, I actually saw you at Walmart, I saw you at Costco.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:47.919
I think that's another thing like really proves us our retail success way we're able to transfer a brand from a digital only brand to more retail brick and mortar stores.
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:48.960
Oh, most definitely.
00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.840
I mean, that's that's definitely such a great, such a great way to put it.
00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:54.240
Um and yeah, now I I do see it, you know.
00:08:54.320 --> 00:09:01.039
I've you know been it's been late night in a CVS, just trying to pick up some some uh prescription or something, and they're you know, prominently on the shelf.
00:09:01.279 --> 00:09:01.919
Tot your Dr.
00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.039
Squatch over there.
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:11.840
Um I also like to the point of the the visibility outside, I I always see like you know, the don't tell comedy, you know, that that that I always see those those, yeah.
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:13.279
And that's like that's some good stuff.
00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:21.919
I like the uh you know, I'm I enjoy I enjoy a lot of comedy, so it's definitely cool to see like the the mix of the of the work and the and the personal is uh is always fun.
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:26.480
Um so obviously, you know, you've seen this great success over these past few years.
00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.440
Um obviously the goal is always to continue to grow.
00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:32.480
You bring in new lines, new, new, new different products.
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:35.039
You mentioned expansion to all these different areas.
00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:38.799
What, you know, what I guess what do you look at that really drive success?
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.559
Like let's get let's get technical with it.
00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:42.080
Like what how do you look at success?
00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:43.600
What does growth look like to you?
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.639
I know you're you're want to really get into the weeds of the data, which is you know something I really appreciate.
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:54.960
What are what are some of those biggest levers or the biggest the biggest goals you really look for to identify what growth means?
00:09:55.279 --> 00:10:00.159
Yeah, so way I mentioned that we're in pretty much all the retail.
00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:05.360
That's that's to me as a retail background person, that's step one.
00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:06.639
It's not the end goal.
00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:10.159
The step two is how to grow within our retail space.
00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:13.600
And retailers are evolving every day as well.
00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.120
Um, Walmart, Target, they have their own uniqueness.
00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.600
We hear talk so much about Walmart.
00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.480
Sometimes I a lot I cover all the retailers.
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:28.879
So I get to see what's going on at Target side, what's going on at like Costco's side, Sam's Club side.
00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:30.559
So all these different things.
00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:39.120
Um, something I noticed that retailer involving traditional way think of retailers is physical broken mortar stores, right?
00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.840
Walmart, Target, you have to physically go to that store.
00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:51.519
But as retailer more involving to younger shoppers, Gen D shopping behavior, they consume media online, they make the purchase online.
00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:58.799
So I've seen retailers purposefully driving, making that decision to encourage the online shopping.
00:10:58.960 --> 00:11:03.519
As for Walmart, we know every day it is like EDLP, every day is low price.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:13.279
Um, funny enough, lately on the Target side, I've noticed if you make a purchase on the app online, the price is quite different than the in-store.
00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:17.679
Um, I actually talked to Target customer service inside the store.
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:19.600
I was like, hey, what's going on?
00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:36.399
I see$4 less online, but when I decide to show up in-store, why it's like the original price, they have to mention to me that, oh, it's because we're encouraging you to uh place an order and pick up in-store.
00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.960
This consider when this consider like Walmart, consider digital purchase, right?
00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.440
It's a pickup in-store, consider digital purchase.
00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:52.720
And Target purposefully using price uh to drive shopper, to incentivize shopper to consciously making that dot-com decision.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:12:01.279
And on the Walmart side, I see the company for as a brand, we want to grow with the retailer together, follow their direction.
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:04.480
Wherever they are gonna grow, we need to go with them.
00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:29.039
And on Walmart side, we're seeing a lot more digital expansion, purposefully changing their strategy to make their ads more capable, doing more things, just like all other competitors, in industry leaders, continue to re-innovated themselves, continue to making the measurement more accurate across all different tactics Walmart is offered.
00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:42.399
I think a conscious decision such such as this, uh retailers are making really encourages shoppers to purposefully making the online decision as a for brand.
00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:51.039
We're not only need to understand what are these changes, what are these trends, how they're changing, and adopting go with them.
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:58.080
And also we need to understand a shopper when how these are impact shoppers' normal shopping behaviors.
00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:04.720
How can we provide that convenience to shopper at their the point of making decisions?
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:05.279
Right.
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:06.960
That's that's super interesting.
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:10.480
Uh, the dynamic, you know, between these, how these different retailers are approaching it.
00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:18.639
Obviously, it's a big race right now, e-commerce as a whole, and to see that, you know, Target taking obviously different methods than than Walmart is.
00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:29.840
Um, obviously, Amazon kind of, you know, being obviously the historical or today is still the e-commerce leader and king, um, how they view the omnibusiness and curious how that's how that's going to move.
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:32.399
Um, what I find fascinating for Dr.
00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:38.879
Squatch specifically is you have like, I don't know, would you is it considered like premium?
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.399
Would it be a premium brand in terms of like value versus premium?
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.559
And then you consider that versus how Walmart is.
00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:46.320
We call it Mass Teach.
00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.679
It's a Pur Steach brand for Wisney Mass Market.
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:51.519
Call it Mass Teach brand.
00:13:52.000 --> 00:14:21.840
Snow Cork is a full service agency exclusively for Walmart, helping brands maximize digital self-penetration through omni-channel strategies that span both in-store and online, from content and advertising to retail media and social proof, Cell Core gives brands everything they need to grow across the full Walmart ecosystem.
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:24.159
Okay, that's great.
00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:30.879
And that's the having that prestige is like compared to maybe what you consider the cheaper products that you would expect to have in Walmart.
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:50.799
But the fact that you guys are a brand who is in this mass teach uh you know space, but yet you are still seeing a lot of the success in Walmart really shows, I think, even how Walmart has evolved too is you would maybe expect this to be a target brand, or maybe you know, some of these other maybe, you know, e-com obviously makes a lot of sense, but not to see that Walmart's evolution.
00:14:50.879 --> 00:15:00.000
We've seen this across many spaces, um, many spaces, especially I think within you know personal care and beauty, specifically, those are areas that Walmart's really pushing for and driving for.
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:01.759
And even the customer base, right?
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:08.879
You mentioned your customer base today, more around Gen Z, kind of like the style of like what they're of what they're really hitting on.
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:15.440
Um, is something that maybe that's an area that Walmart can use more of those, that more of that demographic to shop with them, right?
00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:16.879
They've been pushing historically.
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:18.559
You could think of a Walmart shopper.
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:25.200
Historically, it's been a little bit of an older demographic, but as they continue to evolve now and they need to win in dot com, it's multifaceted.
00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:36.639
Is they need, say, they need the shoppers who are going to shop, you know, that are, you know, more digital native, who are going to be shopping more from an e-commerce lens, but they also need the brands who these shoppers buy, right?
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:58.960
They may not want some of these more traditional, you know, older brands that maybe are not as not don't really work as well with it with a younger audience, especially a very natural, a very, you know, a very organic and healthy brand uh like yourselves, which is you guys are really pushing for this health conscious, which is obviously a really big, a really big right now amongst amongst the younger generation.
00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.960
So it's really cool to see the uh like that's I I think where a lot of success is.
00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:16.720
You know, a lot of brands who we've you know, we've come to us over the years, they maybe are have this uh certain stigma about what Walmart is, and they're like, oh, I don't think this is the right fit for us, you know, or we're we're we're premium, we're we have this prestige, and we're not, you know, we're not gonna go into this.
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:22.080
And it's like, no, you could see now the brands that have leaned in, you know, yourselves, you could see again a number of other ones.
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:27.519
I know obviously La Roche-Possay was one of the more popular ones their CFO announced um in the recent earnings.
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:38.559
That's another premium beauty brand that has come to the market to really, you know, bring it brings with the customers, it brings with the demographic, it just is it's showing where the direction is that Walmart's going.
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:43.440
So I definitely love to see that because that is how Walmart wins in e-commerce.
00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:45.360
They win from having these, from having these brands.
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:54.559
I think one thing as a brand, regardless to what's your position, we we know Walmart is one of the biggest retailers in the United States.
00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:00.720
And we often, when we talk with our Walmart merchant, they often say, you know, Walmart means America.
00:17:00.879 --> 00:17:07.759
Like Walmart represents America shoppers, which is true based, we all be in the business with Walmart for years.
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:12.640
We know traditional Walmart and we're seeing Walmart involving and engaging.
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:22.640
So um now I see more and more ads on Walmart that's more fashion-driven, like instead of more like a grocery, like everyday trip.
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:26.400
Europeans are slowly thinking Walmart more cool, more fashion.
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:41.039
They offer different, you know, one year on Walmart app, I've saw Tiffany Bricelet, love bristle, and that's like a couple thousand dollars, probably it somewhere could go ten thousand dollars, and that's being on Walmart as well.
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:45.680
So that's why I don't think if your prestige brand, Walmart is not your place.
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:46.720
That's not true.
00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:54.319
Because if if your brand served for American shoppers, then here it's largest place for you to play with.
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:55.039
I love that.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:00.240
That is that is that is so so much of the truth that Walmart's really just pushing out today.
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.160
And you could see, I mean, even the evolution of the stores and how they look now.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.599
I think there's you know some naming they have for the background, store 2.0 or something.
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:08.559
I don't know, something like that.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:13.200
And you could see the actual stores just look so much more, you know, premium now.
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:17.839
Like they have like even even like the beauty section, like you could just see they've really made it look good.
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.400
They're really leaning in more to the trends, you know.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.920
They are they are doing a lot of work to really capture this demographic.
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:34.319
And I guess, you know, these brands are who are really not engaging, they're the ones that are gonna eventually be like, oh, I realize I my mistake, and now you have to play catch up.
00:18:34.400 --> 00:18:46.240
You're no longer in a position of these brands who are coming to the space, and you have the ability now to really win against if we think of like the evolution of where Walmart's going with e-commerce, we're still very much in the early stages.
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:48.720
It's only going to evolve drastically, right?
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.680
I mean, just let's think from the digital penetration number, right?
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.160
This is obviously what merchants are pushing for today.
00:18:54.319 --> 00:19:01.359
Um, Walmart's really aiming to get to that 50%, let's say, digital penetration number as you know, as a whole, something along those lines.
00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:08.000
You know, we've heard some from some merchants, but you look at the reality, and some of these brands are, you know, in that still in the in the single digits, yeah.
00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:21.440
And you have some in the low tens, some of them, some of the, you know, the more maybe newer ones to the market are in that in the 20s, but like you don't really see so much of that bigger at the bigger, um, the bigger numbers because the evolution is really still growing.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:30.240
Today, Walmart is still super strong and dominating within the retail, and they continue to do that, but like they need and they are working on evolving into e-commerce.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:45.200
So what that equals is now there is the investment you have to make in e-commerce is not necessarily as strong as it's going to need to be in a number of years if you're launching at that point, because there's let's say there's low fewer comp competitors, the bids are let's say lower, whatever the specifics are.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.920
There's when there's less competition because it's not as much of a market, it's cheaper to invest.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:59.200
Versus if a brand comes to Walmart in five years, suddenly when you know the e-commerce piece is significantly larger than it is today, as we've seen drastic year-over-year growth, it's only going to be more expensive.
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:13.920
So, really, this is a really call to action for these brands to you know, don't have don't worry about this stigma that you know it doesn't really exist today and really come to the platform and really start to engage with the customers and seeing that there is actually America over here purchasing your products.
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:15.839
So I really like that.
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:28.559
I'm curious, you guys, obviously being a CPG, you have you know significant budgets that you're investing within, you know, advertising, off-site, but specifically in Walmart, um, how do you kind of view?
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:35.200
I'm a big proponent of looking at a dollar you invest in Walmart today is not the same as a dollar you invest in Amazon.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:40.400
And like when you invest in Amazon a dollar, you're getting that five dollar OS, you're getting that return.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:40.960
That's it.
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.400
You're that is the dollar you're getting.
00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:43.680
There is some incrementality to it.
00:20:43.759 --> 00:20:57.680
Versus in Walmart, when you're investing that dollar today, even if you get that$5 OS or whatever the ROS is, you're also investing in that store business, which doesn't directly relate to that dollar you're spending here, but it shows you can now go to your merchant and you can have that conversation.
00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:11.200
Look, I invested, you know, 500k in the last couple of months here in in Walmart to drive X amount of digital sales, unlock more one-piece inventory, unlock more stores, unlock you know, more product lines.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:16.799
You could see that I'm investing in you as a company, and that should unlock and then further omnibusin.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:23.359
And I think this is like a perspective that you know a lot of brands are starting to develop, and they realize that that's not necessarily apples to apples.
00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:26.799
When you think of Amazon sales or or advertising versus Walmart advertising.
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:35.279
So I'm really curious from your perspective, you know, being the one to really, you know, finalize hey, here's what we're gonna be spending, here's and here's you know how we're gonna measure success.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:38.160
What do you what do you take a look at when you're making those decisions?
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:39.200
Yeah.
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:51.359
So one thing within our team, we constantly uh we realize we don't talk too much, and a lot of other brands, company tend to talk a lot is ROS.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:58.880
So we don't focus on ROS and why the reason is that is what is our goal.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.759
Our goal.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.960
Is not truly get higher return on ad spends, right?
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.920
Like if if you give uh spend ads on someone who is going to buy Dr.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.680
Squatch 100% Dr.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.920
Squatch fanatic, a loyalist, your return is going to be extremely high.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:16.319
Sure.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:19.920
And that could make the stories number look so much beautiful.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.880
And that's not our goal as a marketer, and particularly within the retail business.
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.880
Our goal is how can we see drive that incrementality?
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:29.839
We know Dr.
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:33.440
Squatch is a very trendy brand.
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:44.960
It's a brand that young people naturally talk about because the brand awareness, because that that brand is creating funny humor, like you said, content that people relate to.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:47.519
So there's this upper level conversation.
00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:49.200
We know that's happening.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:59.519
And how can we use our media dollar to drive that conversation, to convert that conversation to incremental dollar, to incremental return?
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:14.400
So that's where I'm thinking way naturally, organically going to have a group shopper because they're engaging on the ads, because they're engaging overall conversation, they won't buy on Walmart or somewhere else.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:15.920
They pick their channel.
00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:23.440
Then what we want an investment on particular retail platform is really driving that incrementality.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.799
And what is the right way to look at incrementality?
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:28.480
Um, there's different ways.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:40.400
Definitely ROS, I would not recommend that's the right way to look at um look at total business growth, how we're looking at year over year, organic growth, paid growth.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:47.519
And but overall, for us, we wanted to truly find and look at that incrementality.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.680
That's how we measure success, not just simply based on ROS.
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:53.680
So I think that's very important.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.480
That is, it is, that is extremely important.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:58.319
I really like that point of the loyalist.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:02.799
And we've we've had customers historically, like all they care about is ROAS.
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:04.720
And I'm like, yeah, there is a place.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:05.920
ROAS has a place.
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:13.680
I think it's more of a more granular metric that you can use if you're have specific keywords that you need some success with understanding one versus the other.
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:22.400
But to purely just have an overall ROS number that is important to you, to your point, is you might just be cannibalizing on sales that you could be having today.
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:24.640
You could just purely, you want a good ROAS?
00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:26.640
I'm just gonna bid on Dr.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:29.519
Squatch as a keyword, and I will have the best ROAS ever.
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:31.680
Am I gonna have any increase in my sales?
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:33.519
My tacos is probably gonna go up.
00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:36.319
I'm not gonna see my new to brand is probably gonna shrink.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.680
These are just your conversion rates are gonna be beautiful and your ROS is gonna be great.
00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.240
But obviously, you would have those sales anyways.
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:45.440
And these are just kind of some of the problems that we notice.
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:51.599
And unfortunately, I think a lot of agencies are also incentivized incorrectly to chase ROAS.
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.359
And like we've seen this where you know we've audited or you know, work with other accounts.
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.759
It's like, why are you bidding so much on branded terms?
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.880
And it's like, well, uh, it gives us a much better ROAS.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:05.519
No kidding, it gives you much better ROAS than everything else, but it's not actually driving any incrementality.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.119
So that's that's very interesting.
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:19.839
And now, what I really like one of the new strategies today is with negation, that's now with negative targeting in auto campaigns, is making sure that all these campaigns are just fully restricted on any branded terms.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:21.440
Like we want to have nothing in that.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:26.319
I still believe it's important to bid on branded terms from a defensive measure, right?
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.240
That's important, but you are the most relevant to those terms, and you could you should be winning those at base bids.
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:45.519
Oftentimes we see silly enough, the brand will compete against itself if you have multiple campaigns both going for branded terms, especially if you have an auto campaign and a manual campaign going against branded terms, you're now competing with yourself and you're driving up your own CPCs.
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:46.559
I hijack surprise.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:46.960
Yeah.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:49.279
Yeah, it's just it's just it's just yeah, it's it's not good.
00:25:49.359 --> 00:26:14.400
So that's why like it's important, like negate the auto, use the auto negate, and just purely leave auto really on the terms that you want, maybe new placements or just identifying new new areas to work and have the manual, very low bids for your for your branded terms, and even for the terms that you that you have good relevancy on, terms that you want to be always on, having the manual campaigns over there structured and leaving them negated on auto.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:20.000
I don't think like I think it's bad to have a keyword in both auto and a manual because you're just fighting for each other.
00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:28.720
Could be branded, could be not branded, and that's what really allows you to now really be highly focused on your spends for these for these um for these keywords.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.319
And I think not every category probably performs the same.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:39.200
And where I do like auto, particularly on Walmart's platform, is they are having a lot of auto-exclusive placement.
00:26:39.359 --> 00:26:39.599
Yes.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:46.079
So these are almost in order to win in these places, you need to place within autospace.
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:46.400
Yeah.
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:47.920
And for us, Dr.
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:57.920
Squatch, uh, we just need to find out what is the right balance between auto manual, now sponsor brand, all of this video content that comes to play.
00:26:58.079 --> 00:26:59.200
What is the right balance?
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:06.720
What is the right amount, that's the right mix, you're doing the right ratio to reach our incrementality goal.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:07.599
Yes, yes.
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:11.839
I I I think that's that's that's a really good point for the auto placements.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:28.000
Like that's I think it's important to have it always on auto, but like as really using that purely as like a source to either harvest new keywords that we then put into a manual, unless the bid is so low that it's worth just keeping in the auto, but you know, and that's uh out out for debate.
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.599
And just really just using it as a source to harvest and gain additional placements.
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:37.839
But really, every keyword that we know is doing well for these products, they should be structured properly properly in those manual campaigns.
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.759
And then this is an interesting point you mentioned, like we're out, we're else, right?
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:47.599
There's obviously sponsored brands, sponsored video, you know, you know, some some up more upper funnel tactics that exist.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:54.960
There it's an interesting one because I think also there, if we look purely at ROS, it's not gonna be as good.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:00.000
The placements cost more, they're more premium, you're not, you know, they do have a better placement on site, obviously.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:05.599
But if you again, if you're purely looking at it from a Ross perspective, it's not gonna, it's not gonna be as good a sponsored product.
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:11.519
But if you look at it from the bigger perspective, that oh, I would need to get more eyes in front of my merchant, right?
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:22.240
I need I need to make sure that for let's say a new line that I'm launching, that if a merchant in that space is looking it up, that they're gonna see my product is prominently displayed over there with a ver with a brand and a video.
00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:30.240
Again, maybe you didn't make that two dollars uh or whatever that your raw ass is terrible on it, but what if that your conversation with your line review you have the following week?
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.319
They're like, Oh yeah, I did see your product over there.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:37.599
Now suddenly you're getting, you know, you're getting on you're getting a massive placement in store or whatever it is, you're getting a test.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:41.200
So really every dollar you invest goes significantly further.
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:58.720
And it's kind of hard to measure that incrementality because most brands, you know, are not if you take a look at your total, total tacos, like not just your e-com tacos, but your total sales tacos, it's always going to be very small, especially where Walmart is massively in store today, but there still is obviously some sort of factoring to that.
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:04.319
And I think that's where like it's important, like from your like I love like from your perspective, you're not like siloed.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.119
It's not like, oh, retail is one thing, e-commerce is another thing.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.240
We have to think about two different things.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:12.079
It's like, no, this is one Walmart business, and I need to think of both of those things together.
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:15.359
And I think that brands who look at it from that lens really see the most success.
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.440
Yeah, because I I think coming from like you and me are shoppers.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:23.119
We we buy things, we buy things randomly on Amazon, Walmart.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.920
We don't consider ourselves, I'm an Amazon shopper, I'm a Walmart in-store shopper.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:30.640
We consider we're shoppers, we're looking for this and that.
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.920
We're looking for a shampoo or looking for a body wash.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:41.119
So whatever's convenience for me at that moment, I'm too lazy, don't want to go out, I shop online, right?
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:46.000
So I don't think uh we need a separate uh in-store and dot-com business.
00:29:46.079 --> 00:30:02.000
I do think an army shopper, army business, how retailer approaches their army business, they are leveraging dot com to drive more foot traffic and leverage physical space to drive more dot-com um impact.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:10.559
So they are purposely trying to combine this to build this army, army image, army shopping experience for shoppers.
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:14.400
As a brand, we should consider that's an army business as well.
00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:23.359
And like you said, when we talk a little bit in details, that dive into the detail metrics, is this driving incrementality?
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:27.920
Is that giving me uh more eyeballs, like upper final tactics?
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:32.559
Yeah, how to measure that something I look at is new to brand.
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:34.880
We mentioned it's a very important metrics.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:42.000
If you look at sponsor brand videos, maybe that's one of the highest uh bit in terms CPM, CPC.
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:43.680
But look at new to brand.
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:46.720
Does that help your brand bring into new shoppers?
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:50.640
If the answer is yes, then I think that that's really a good placement.
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.319
You should continue to put your ads there.
00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:59.200
Yeah, and another interesting point, specifically on like sponsor brand and video, is it may not always be about the dollar that you make over there.
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.079
Sometimes a customer searches on a body wash, right?
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:02.240
Right.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.920
And then they just watch the video, yeah, and then they click on the sponsor search or they click on organic placement, they buy it.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.000
Like it's hard to really tell.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:15.759
There's it's it's not like a display ad where you get a CPM and like, oh, you were impacted by this.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:26.960
Like, you don't really have as much of that clarity into the path of purchase from like, oh, they were an impression was received of the sponsored brand and video at the same time that they also clicked.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:28.480
Like it would I would love to see, honestly.
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:34.559
I think uh Walmart's done some work out with Connect to give kind of like that full like cross, uh I forget what they call it.
00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:37.359
There's like a there is a page that does show you like the full measurement.
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:44.160
Um, if you are running some of the more ARPO funnel tactics, but I think from a sponsored brand and video, I don't think they're Cintella decision tree, yeah.
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:51.279
Oh yeah, that that that there definitely is, yeah, from the Scintilla perspective, which oh man, that's a whole other that's a whole other can't can't open on Cintilla's side.
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.359
Yeah, I I think look at it this way.
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:58.559
Um as brand, understand your shopper's um lifetime value, right?
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:07.359
Uh a shopper you bring in, like cost cost of bringing shopper, either through um sponsor brand or through other tactics.
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:15.920
Um what however that much cost, consider a lifetime value of this shopper, like what that's gonna balance out.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.799
So I think that's another interesting point to look at.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:33.119
If the life uh value of shopper is much, much, much higher to that afford and their shopper sticky, more sticky, you as a brand, you probably could afford a little bit higher to acquire these shoppers.
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:33.920
Most definitely.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:34.640
Most definitely.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:35.519
It's actually interesting.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:36.960
I have a question on this.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:46.960
As a whole, do you find like most of your shoppers are using subscriptions to purchase your products, or most of them really just kind of one-off as they need the products?
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:53.599
Um, on our D2C business, we could see a lot of time it's subscription-based.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.200
And even we are launching um like a limited edition.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:58.640
That's where another thing Dr.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.359
Squatch gets shopper gets super excited about Dr.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.000
Squatch.
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:06.799
We've no we've seen that it's come out as a baker bundle.
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:08.559
It's not individual soaps.
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:18.640
So we eventually want shopper to experience everything and drive them that into a more uh recurring revenue type type of like a funnel.
00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:29.359
Um the Walmart side, we notice Walmart starts having more subscription options as well, just like any other like Amazon giant, e-commer giants do.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:37.039
So uh because they shop uh retailer and everyone knows that they once a shopper starts subscribed, right?
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:38.880
How how often they cancel subscription.
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:46.000
There are so many businesses that like trying to guess how many subscription you have, a lot of the time people get wrong because they forget to renew.
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:53.440
And also that shows uh when people click that button to subscribe, it shows the loyalty they demonstrate to your brand.
00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:00.319
They're willing to continue, at least continue to receive more than one, um, whatever that that will be.
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:15.119
Um, I would say from a retail perspective, um, even though we don't have the subscription right now turned on for Walmart, um, but how to drive shopper back, that's another interesting task.
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:16.320
We all need to know.
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:19.599
We know when shopper first shop at Dr.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:21.199
Scratch, a lot of them excited.
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.280
Wow, you have beautiful packaging.
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:29.679
I love your collaboration with um Star Wars, Harry Potter, they're different fanatics.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:38.000
They we we know that these limitation that drive excitement of the brand and drive a lot of new shoppers into our brand.
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:55.280
And since as a brand, next thing we need to figure out is how to maintain the shopper, not only buy this new cool once a month or like less uh more frequent drops, uh, limitation, but also stick to our core business.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:02.719
As your everyday, you're using the core business because you love the scent or you believe the brand, you want the natural soap products.
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:05.760
And limititions are fun, engaging.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.360
It's limited.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.079
You buy once, you may not want to use it.
00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:21.280
You could collect it, you could save it, and but core still that traditional core bread and butter type of um business, that's what a brand that truly supports the brand.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:22.159
Super interesting.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:28.960
I'm curious, like there's obviously like you have like retargeting campaigns that you could run directly to hit like you know, past purchasers.
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:44.159
I think even like even beyond just the expansion into like other, you know, these these uh these limited editions, there's also as you guys expanding or continuously expanding into other product lines, like how you could just hit continuously shoppers from that angle.
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:51.119
Like let's say someone's purchasing your shampoo, boom, you hit them with a conditioner, hit them with the body wash, the deodorant, you know, whatever, any of the other, any of the other product lines.
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:52.800
I think that's also something that's very interesting.
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:56.639
Really bringing the full ecosystem together is you know so impactful.
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:57.679
Yeah.
00:35:57.920 --> 00:35:58.239
Yeah.
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.559
Well, no, this is any any other thoughts.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:04.559
You have any like like closing ideas or thoughts you want to share around Dr.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:08.960
Squatch, IUC Walmart, uh, just any anything final?
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.119
Um, I think Walmart as one of the largest retail partners Dr.
00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:18.800
Squatch has um definitely, I would say, grow with how the retailer wanted to grow.
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:21.199
Stick with them, grow together.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.119
That's one super important thing.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:33.519
Second is understand your shopper, knows when they entry, where the entry, and how much they spend, and try how to convert the shopper to loyal shopper.
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:41.440
These are things that marketer, retail marketers need to figure out particular that fits for your business within that certain retailer.
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:42.559
Awesome, awesome.
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:43.519
Well, thank you so much.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.679
I don't think we've ever on the show gotten into the weeds of campaign structure.
00:36:47.760 --> 00:36:52.639
So I like that, like, you know, we're able to get you know, a level of depth, a level of like high level over here.
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.719
This has been, you know, super fun, super interesting.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.960
Obviously, thank you so much for coming out, Sylvia.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:36:58.880
And yeah, this has been this has been great.
00:36:59.039 --> 00:37:02.719
Everyone, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Marketplace Code.
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.960
Make sure to subscribe and we'll see you next time.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:05.679
Thank you.
