WEBVTT
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Hey, welcome back to the Lars Larson Show.
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It's a pleasure to be with you.
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It has now been three years to the day since October 7th, three years ago, when more than 1,100 Israelis were killed, 251 were taken hostage, and now we have, well, we have a strange era in the United States where even Major League politicians like the mayor of New York City, Zoran Mamdani, has got people more than a little bit angry by using the third anniversary of the October 7th slaughter of Israelis to instead attack Israel for what he calls war crimes and ongoing genocide.
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I thought we'd talk about that with Natasha Pine, who is the co-founder and executive director of Stop Anti-Zionism and created the three-stage framework.
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Natasha, welcome to the program.
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What should we make of the fact that this is where we are three years later?
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It is unfortunate to hear that, but it's it's not, it's actually not surprising coming from Mamdami.
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Mamdami is represent is the representation of the Green, the Red and the Green Alliance.
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October 7th is not just an isolated terrorist attack.
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.840
Hamas attacked communities inside Israel, right?
00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.319
There were civilians and the two hostages.
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.079
But what happened immediately afterwards is equally important.
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:38.480
Before Israel had even fully responded, we saw demonstrations around the world celebrated Russia, rationalized and contextualized the savage atrocities.
00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:45.040
That tells us something that October 7 didn't create the anti-Zionist ideologies that we're seeing today.
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:46.719
October 7 exposed it.
00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:52.959
So Mamdami is one of the Israel is a figure, is a symbol of he's basically part of it.
00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.920
He's part of the system that is actually, we see it as an exposure.
00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:07.439
So at Stop Anti-Zionism, we educate how anti-Zionism is a third era of Jew hatred, which is at the end the three-era of Jew hatred was developed by Dr.
00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:08.560
Nayelech.
00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:13.280
The language changes across history, but the mechanism is remarkably the same.
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:15.360
How it demonizes the Jews.
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:16.879
And the target is the same.
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:25.280
So first Jews are accused and demonized, then they are delegitimized, and then exclusions and hostilities become morally acceptable.
00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.800
So what Mamdani is doing is that he is exactly doing that.
00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:38.719
He's demonizing the in this case, it's demonizing Israel, and it's because it's using Israel as he says, I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm just anti-Zionist.
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And that's what he does.
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He's demonizing Israel in order to delegitimize it.
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Because he's using the genocide libel to delegitimize it so it can so Israel can be excluded from the nations, and basically, and hostility then becomes morally acceptable.
00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:07.360
But how do how Natasha, how do we explain to people why American voters, in this case voters in America's biggest city, are willing to vote for somebody who supports that?
00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:13.599
That's because how what they're doing is this is all part of the cycle of libels.
00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.639
That is the demonization, demonization mechanism.
00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.599
So the essence of the Jew hatred has always been the libels and conspiracy theories.
00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:32.960
So when they're libeling Jews throughout the history, or in this case in the history of anti-Zionism here, because the Jew was coded in that this is actually all a playbook from a Soviet time.
00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:37.759
And I was born in the Soviet Union, but to me, I still have the trauma from the Soviet Union.
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:46.400
And this they're they're actually creating what the Soviets did in order, so they didn't want people to know that you know that they're anti-Semitic.
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:47.680
So how did they hide it?
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:54.240
They coded after 19 in the late 1960s, after the Six-Day War, because they knew they could not defeat the West.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.719
They could not defeat Americans and Israel.
00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.680
So they needed to change something, they needed to change the narrative.
00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:04.960
So what they've done in 1969, they actually coded a Jew to a Zionist.
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:10.080
And then they hid all of their anti-Semitic feel under anti-Zionism.
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:10.960
They created it.
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.599
And this is why in 1975 there was a resolution.
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Zionism is racism.
00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:16.639
That was intentional.
00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:27.439
And also, if you've noticed what happened in UK, that is that that is actually a Green Party who actually decided to also establish Zionism as racism.
00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.399
Now, after so many years anti-1975.
00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:38.399
So what this demonization cycle does is repeating the libels consistently throughout, you know, it will continue to repeatingly.
00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.160
And when it's repeated, even if it's a lie, people think it's true.
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.560
And people know it's that's how it's normalized.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:52.399
It's infested in the society, people think it's real, and then people feel, oh, but it's virtuous, I want to save the world.
00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.759
I want, I don't want to be part of this genocidal people, right?
00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.879
We know it's a libel, but other people don't know that.
00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:00.959
They think they're doing something virtuous.
00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.240
In each era, Jew hatred is a virtuous hate.
00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:12.240
It's people always demonize Jews and accuse of something that is basically as it is very virtuous to the society.
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:17.439
So in our case, human rights and decolonization is virtuous.
00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:22.480
This is part of the important in the society because we're living in a post-colonizing world.
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:29.040
So in this case, they're demonizing Israel as genocidal for even existing, they're demonizing it in the Middle East.
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:37.680
And because Israel is actually representing, when you look at what it is, is the only country in the Middle East that is democratic.
00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.839
So it by definition represents the the West.
00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:48.959
So the way it's seen, so anti-Zionists see Israel is as the as a West, and that's the s symbolism of it.
00:05:49.040 --> 00:06:01.360
And Natasha, you know, one of the things that's always troubled me about this is that we now have the phenomenon in America that uh Protestant Christians like me are accused of being uh white nationalists.
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:16.879
Well, I believe in my country, and I believe that my country is a proud supporter of a pluralistic society where everybody can believe in whatever faith they want, but it was a a country founded by Christians, but one that was careful to safeguard the rights of everybody of every faith.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.040
And you say, so what's wrong with being a nationalist?
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:24.879
Well, you know, Zionists are basically just people who believe there ought to be a country of Israel.
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.120
And there's 6,000 years of history that supports the existence of that.
00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:40.800
So when I see them attack people for saying there ought to be an Israel, I wonder, well, if I don't stand up for that, are they going to stand up for me when people say there shouldn't be an America anymore?
00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.519
Uh, because maybe it should be a Sharia country?
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.160
And I've I've feared that that's where we're headed.
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.399
But we are heading towards this way.
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:55.680
And the reason we're heading towards, and this is why I always it's one of the things we do, we actually teach that also, and that's part of Let's Stop Anti-Zionism.
00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:57.600
We teach the ideologies.
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:03.120
We educate about ideologies that create anti-Zionism and create this civilizational crisis.
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:08.399
So where we are right now is we're actually in civilized, like this is literally an inversion.
00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.360
So October 7 actually exposed this inversion.
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:18.240
It shows that one such essential tactics of the anti-Zionist and the red and green alliance is inversion.
00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:22.879
So when Hamas attacked Israel, they deliberately murdered civilians.
00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:31.360
But yet, Israel was soon accused of a very crime historically committed against Jews, like the genocide, the Nazism, and even creating ghetto.
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:35.199
So the victims all of a sudden they turned into aggressors.
00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:41.839
So Jewish suffering was inverted from Holocaust on October 7 and turned against the Jews themselves.
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:51.759
So, and now, even October 7, a day of to remember for us, the victims, is being inverted into a day to accuse the very people who actually were attacked.
00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:53.600
This is what they're doing in America as well.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:55.040
Exactly the same tactics.
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:57.279
Yeah, and that's the thing I'm concerned about.
00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.480
That's Natasha Pine, who is co-founder and executive director of Stop Anti-Zionism and created the three-era framework.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.480
Uh Natasha, thank you very much.
00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.040
Back in a moment, I'll get to your phone calls and emails.
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.279
You've got the Lars Larson show.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:14.400
Hey, welcome back to the Lars Larson Show.
00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:15.519
It's a pleasure to be with you.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:46.399
It has now been three years to the day since October 7th, three years ago, when more than 1,100 Israelis were killed, 251 were taken hostage, and now we have, well, we have a strange era in the United States where even Major League politicians like the mayor of New York City, Zoran Mamdani, has got people more than a little bit angry by using the third anniversary of the October 7th slaughter of Israelis to instead attack Israel for what he calls war crimes and ongoing genocide.
00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:55.759
I thought we'd talk about that with Natasha Pine, who is the co-founder and executive director of Stop Anti-Zionism and created the three-stage framework.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:58.320
Natasha, welcome to the program.
00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:02.320
What should we make of the fact that this is where we are three years later?
00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:08.799
It is unfortunate to hear that, but it's it's not, it's actually not surprising coming from Mamdami.
00:01:08.879 --> 00:01:14.640
Mamdami is represent is the representation of the Green, the Red and the Green Alliance.
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:18.480
October 7th is not just an isolated terrorist attack.
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:21.840
Hamas attacked communities inside Israel, right?
00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.319
There were civilians and the two hostages.
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.079
But what happened immediately afterwards is equally important.
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:38.480
Before Israel had even fully responded, we saw demonstrations around the world celebrated Russia, rationalized and contextualized the savage atrocities.
00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:45.040
That tells us something that October 7 didn't create the anti-Zionist ideologies that we're seeing today.
00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:46.719
October 7 exposed it.
00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:52.959
So Mamdami is one of the Israel is a figure, is a symbol of he's basically part of it.
00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.920
He's part of the system that is actually, we see it as an exposure.
00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:07.439
So at Stop Anti-Zionism, we educate how anti-Zionism is a third era of Jew hatred, which is at the end the three-era of Jew hatred was developed by Dr.
00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:08.560
Nayelech.
00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:13.280
The language changes across history, but the mechanism is remarkably the same.
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:15.360
How it demonizes the Jews.
00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:16.879
And the target is the same.
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:25.280
So first Jews are accused and demonized, then they are delegitimized, and then exclusions and hostilities become morally acceptable.
00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.800
So what Mamdani is doing is that he is exactly doing that.
00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:38.719
He's demonizing the in this case, it's demonizing Israel, and it's because it's using Israel as he says, I'm not anti-Semitic, I'm just anti-Zionist.
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:39.680
And that's what he does.
00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:42.960
He's demonizing Israel in order to delegitimize it.
00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:55.680
Because he's using the genocide libel to delegitimize it so it can so Israel can be excluded from the nations, and basically, and hostility then becomes morally acceptable.
00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:07.360
But how do how Natasha, how do we explain to people why American voters, in this case voters in America's biggest city, are willing to vote for somebody who supports that?
00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:13.599
That's because how what they're doing is this is all part of the cycle of libels.
00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:16.639
That is the demonization, demonization mechanism.
00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:21.599
So the essence of the Jew hatred has always been the libels and conspiracy theories.
00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:32.960
So when they're libeling Jews throughout the history, or in this case in the history of anti-Zionism here, because the Jew was coded in that this is actually all a playbook from a Soviet time.
00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:37.759
And I was born in the Soviet Union, but to me, I still have the trauma from the Soviet Union.
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:46.400
And this they're they're actually creating what the Soviets did in order, so they didn't want people to know that you know that they're anti-Semitic.
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:47.680
So how did they hide it?
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:54.240
They coded after 19 in the late 1960s, after the Six-Day War, because they knew they could not defeat the West.
00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.719
They could not defeat Americans and Israel.
00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.680
So they needed to change something, they needed to change the narrative.
00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:04.960
So what they've done in 1969, they actually coded a Jew to a Zionist.
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:10.080
And then they hid all of their anti-Semitic feel under anti-Zionism.
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:10.960
They created it.
00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:13.599
And this is why in 1975 there was a resolution.
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:15.199
Zionism is racism.
00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:16.639
That was intentional.
00:04:16.959 --> 00:04:27.439
And also, if you've noticed what happened in UK, that is that that is actually a Green Party who actually decided to also establish Zionism as racism.
00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.399
Now, after so many years anti-1975.
00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:38.399
So what this demonization cycle does is repeating the libels consistently throughout, you know, it will continue to repeatingly.
00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:42.160
And when it's repeated, even if it's a lie, people think it's true.
00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.560
And people know it's that's how it's normalized.
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:52.399
It's infested in the society, people think it's real, and then people feel, oh, but it's virtuous, I want to save the world.
00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.759
I want, I don't want to be part of this genocidal people, right?
00:04:56.480 --> 00:04:58.879
We know it's a libel, but other people don't know that.
00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:00.959
They think they're doing something virtuous.
00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.240
In each era, Jew hatred is a virtuous hate.
00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:12.240
It's people always demonize Jews and accuse of something that is basically as it is very virtuous to the society.
00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:17.439
So in our case, human rights and decolonization is virtuous.
00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:22.480
This is part of the important in the society because we're living in a post-colonizing world.
00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:29.040
So in this case, they're demonizing Israel as genocidal for even existing, they're demonizing it in the Middle East.
00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:37.680
And because Israel is actually representing, when you look at what it is, is the only country in the Middle East that is democratic.
00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.839
So it by definition represents the the West.
00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:48.959
So the way it's seen, so anti-Zionists see Israel is as the as a West, and that's the s symbolism of it.
00:05:49.040 --> 00:06:01.360
And Natasha, you know, one of the things that's always troubled me about this is that we now have the phenomenon in America that uh Protestant Christians like me are accused of being uh white nationalists.
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:16.879
Well, I believe in my country, and I believe that my country is a proud supporter of a pluralistic society where everybody can believe in whatever faith they want, but it was a a country founded by Christians, but one that was careful to safeguard the rights of everybody of every faith.
00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:19.040
And you say, so what's wrong with being a nationalist?
00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:24.879
Well, you know, Zionists are basically just people who believe there ought to be a country of Israel.
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:29.120
And there's 6,000 years of history that supports the existence of that.
00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:40.800
So when I see them attack people for saying there ought to be an Israel, I wonder, well, if I don't stand up for that, are they going to stand up for me when people say there shouldn't be an America anymore?
00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.519
Uh, because maybe it should be a Sharia country?
00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.160
And I've I've feared that that's where we're headed.
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.399
But we are heading towards this way.
00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:55.680
And the reason we're heading towards, and this is why I always it's one of the things we do, we actually teach that also, and that's part of Let's Stop Anti-Zionism.
00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:57.600
We teach the ideologies.
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:03.120
We educate about ideologies that create anti-Zionism and create this civilizational crisis.
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:08.399
So where we are right now is we're actually in civilized, like this is literally an inversion.
00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.360
So October 7 actually exposed this inversion.
00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:18.240
It shows that one such essential tactics of the anti-Zionist and the red and green alliance is inversion.
00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:22.879
So when Hamas attacked Israel, they deliberately murdered civilians.
00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:31.360
But yet, Israel was soon accused of a very crime historically committed against Jews, like the genocide, the Nazism, and even creating ghetto.
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:35.199
So the victims all of a sudden they turned into aggressors.
00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:41.839
So Jewish suffering was inverted from Holocaust on October 7 and turned against the Jews themselves.
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:51.759
So, and now, even October 7, a day of to remember for us, the victims, is being inverted into a day to accuse the very people who actually were attacked.
00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:53.600
This is what they're doing in America as well.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:55.040
Exactly the same tactics.
00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:57.279
Yeah, and that's the thing I'm concerned about.
00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:04.480
That's Natasha Pine, who is co-founder and executive director of Stop Anti-Zionism and created the three-era framework.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.480
Uh Natasha, thank you very much.
00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.040
Back in a moment, I'll get to your phone calls and emails.
00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.279
You've got the Lars Larson show.
