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Welcome to The Human Code, the podcast where technology meets humanity, and the future is shaped by the leaders and innovators of today.
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I'm your host, Don Finley, inviting you on a journey through the fascinating world of tech, leadership, and personal growth.
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Here, we delve into the stories of visionary minds, Who are not only driving technological advancement, but also embodying the personal journeys and insights that inspire us all.
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Each episode, we explore the intersections where human ingenuity meets the cutting edge of technology, unpacking the experiences, challenges, and triumphs that define our era.
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So, whether you are a tech enthusiast, an inspiring entrepreneur, or simply curious about the human narratives behind the digital revolution, you're in the right place.
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Welcome to The Human Code.
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Today, we're joined by Derek Lundsten.
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A transformative leader, passionate about the intersection of humanity and technology.
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As the president and chief culture officer at life guides, Derek is redefining how technology connects people through mentorship and shared human experiences.
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His career spans innovative ventures, including his leadership of scrimmage and advisory roles in healthcare technology, startups, where he focuses on empowering individuals and teams to thrive.
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In this episode, Derek shares his journey of combining spiritual exploration with technological innovation.
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We'll dive into the founding of life guides and its mission to harness technologies, to match individuals with mentors, providing empathetic support during life's challenges.
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Derek also explores the delicate balance of leveraging technology while maintaining meaningful human connections in a rapidly digitalizing world.
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Join us for an inspiring conversation about the future of technology, the enduring importance of human connection and how we can navigate a world increasingly shaped by AI and innovation.
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I'm here with Derek Lundsten and Derek and I have just had a nice little pre show conversation.
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I'm really digging what we're going to talk about today, but Derek, first question for you.
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What got you interested in the intersection of humanity and
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Well, thanks for having me on, Don, and the topic is very relevant.
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So I think on a simple level, I've always been more interested in humanity and what drives people as at the core, and the technology piece, I think, happened.
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Circumstantially, just in many ways, based on the time that we live in.
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but from a young age, I've been, interested in pursuing what drives people, their purpose, their interests, and why we're here.
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And that's something that I've personally explored.
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and then spending a considerable amount of time in my education, studying that from a philosophical and a psychological perspective, really what makes people tick and like I said, as I, Entered the workforce, following studying in university.
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I ended up working in consulting and technology businesses that were focusing specifically the time in the healthcare space.
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And so that lent itself to a natural convergence of where humanity and technology come together.
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And over the last couple of decades, That's only really accelerated, As we've seen the ad, the renaissance of technology as I'm going to refer to it and what we're seeing now, on the topic of artificial intelligence and personalization, it's just getting more and more accelerated from that point of view.
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So I think we're at a really fascinating moment of the convergence of humanity and technology.
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and I've had the privilege over the last couple of decades of building businesses and starting companies.
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that have been in that space.
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And even the one that I'm working in now, which on my shirt, life guides, which we'll talk a bit about, but at the core, the entire essence of that business is about the intersection of humanity and technology using technology specifically for the purposes of connecting people to other people who can be mentors or guides, in navigating life experiences, life events, and life challenges.
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Helping people to be at their best or in moments of challenge or struggle to be there and be supportive and empathetic resources and drive efficiencies.
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of accessing those resources to improve their life circumstances.
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That's what we do.
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and that's really core to what I am doing in my life's work.
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so yeah, great question, Don.
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And I love this and I feel if I ask you questions about your personal journey, we're going to end up hitting on life guide as well.
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And like in both sides of it, but when you spoke about people's drive, their purpose, and like what are their interests, how does that process look for you?
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Or what was the most insightful thing that you got from that
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I'll just share a little story.
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So I added at the age, and I've shared this on a few other podcasts, the age of seven, for whatever reason, I was already asking myself, the question that many people ask at some point in their life or persistently in their life.
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Why am I here?
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And that was the, and I remember it vividly just being in my childhood bedroom and having, for lack of a better term a conversation with myself or with God or whatever saying what am I here for?
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What am I here to do?
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What am I here to learn?
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And that question has driven me for my entire life in terms of, Things that I've pursued or studied or just been interested in.
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And similar to this idea of connecting with guides, the idea, I can't imagine, or, I know for certain that I'm not the only person that experienced that question or experiences that question either, like I said, consistently, or at some moment in their life where they have an awakening and they're like, what are we doing here?
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What am I doing here?
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And yeah, I've just always been fascinated by.
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That question in other people's lives as well.
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Like, why do people do what they do?
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why are they interested in what they're interested in?
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Why are we connected in the certain ways that we are?
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And as I said, I studied as a spiritual seeker for most of my, early teens and early twenties.
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That question, from a spiritual lens, studying philosophy, and I was particularly interested in existentialism and eastern philosophy.
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I've gone on a whole faith journey, that's brought me back to a true personal relationship and where I look at that from my intersection with God.
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but at the end of the day, it's, we're here in this temporal realm of the world.
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Connections and relationships and lots of possibilities and things to explore.
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And so I have always been fascinated by people and by that aspect and how that layers through generations and through our kind of existence as a species about what makes people tick and technology has been an accelerator of information.
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of knowledge, of the ability to apply that knowledge and reorganize how power structures and organizational structures are formed.
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And there's been many instances along that journey, Don, that have been important for me.
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but I also think that I get that question to your point, I was in an entrepreneur's group, that was specifically focusing on this idea of, okay, we live in a world of exponential technologies.
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Think, Genomics.
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Think artificial intelligence.
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Think robotics.
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Think longevity.
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This was 10 years ago.
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And the question was, okay, if those technologies are going to influence the trajectory of human innovation and potentiality, the question that myself and my business partners that we met through that group were asking is, what does not change?
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What makes people?
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What makes humanity?
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What is unique to us in terms of that spiritual, that emotional, that desire for love, that desire for purpose, that sharing of empathy, that sharing of life experience, that sharing of wisdom, that sharing of struggle, that's what makes humanity.
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And we said that those things are not going to transition.
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And so with that as the foundation, what business, what we build that would still be there, regardless of how we change from a technological standpoint.
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So if we develop.
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revolutionary technologies related to how we can feed people or to manage our, the crises that we never really face or that we could heal diseases or that we can reverse aging or that we can travel into interplanetary realities.
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Like what's still going to make humanity.
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And that was part of the driving question of this particular group.
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and more specifically for the business partners that I met and we created with.
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And that's really where Lifeguides was birthed was through that network.
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now coming back to life guides because you like guides, you briefly mentioned it's basically using technology in order to match people based on like their needs.
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And so how does that look for you?
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yeah, so I'll share in the context of that group that it was, there was actually a specific topic.
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So my business partner and another one of our partners, they were sharing their experience that they had both become caregivers for their parents who had dementia.
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And these at the time, these are, mid fifties, late fifties year old or early fifties, mid fifties, general gentlemen.
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So That had experienced financial success.
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They were well educated.
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They were well networked.
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They experienced the world.
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And even with all those privileges and even with all that opportunity, there was still this acknowledgement that it's really hard to be a caregiver, because of their demands on your emotions, on your identity, on seeing your parent go through that evolution in their life, their eventual, degradation of their quality of life and transitioning of their life.
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And Let alone the emotional, there's also the financial and the practical considerations that you have in a caregiving relationship.
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And so they had this question of acknowledgement.
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So imagine, for us, it's this challenging.
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How much harder is it for people that don't have the means, the education, the financial resources, the connections that we've been blessed to have?
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What if we could build and, one of those partners actually was a founder of match.
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com.
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What if we could build a match.
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com like experience, not for dating, but for caregivers to find their person who'd been through that so they could pick their brain, not through searching on Google for hours and hours on end, but talk to someone and get real world firsthand experience and counsel from someone who'd been through that.
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And I had, secondhand seen this.
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I was not a caregiver directly for my grandparents, but I'd seen my dad and my stepmom be that for my grandparents.
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And so I had a lens removed of saying, okay, I can empathize.
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I can relate to what these gentlemen are going through.
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Having been caregivers, I've seen it secondhand.
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So I understand it.
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And what I saw as well was that same model applies not just for caregiving, but for any life experience, whether it be, becoming a parent for the first time, Going through a relationship transition or a divorce or relocating across the country for a promotion or transitioning from active duty military to civilian life.
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These are all examples of hundreds of unique experiences that people go through every day where they may or may not have the resources, the knowledge, the network or the experience to figure it out.
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And so it's invaluable to be able to talk with someone or some people about who know personally and have been through it and successfully been through it.
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These are the things that I wish I had known at the time.
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These are the things that you should be aware of.
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Here's things, there's resources and places that you can go and access information to improve the efficiency or the taxing of the emotions or mental taxation that happens in that way.
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And so that's really what Lifeguides is doing.
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And the cool part about it is because we are all human beings and we all are experiencing these challenges and these moments of struggle and triumph.
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All of us has a story or experiences or attributes that we are able to then share.
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And so we're tapping into this unrealized potential of human wisdom and insight to be communicated in real time in a moment of someone's need or opportunity for growth where they've chosen that and they've sought that.
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And think back to where we were in tribal natures, Where you'd go seek your elders, you would seek your Those in the village who'd been through the situation.
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We now have an internet like you and I are talking across the country right now, as if we're sitting in the same room and same thing.
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You could talk to someone on the other side of the world.
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Who had been a caregiver, who had been through a certain situation that might have a knowledge or experience, and you can learn from them in a very rare and unique way that is now becoming more and more accessible because of this technology innovation,
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I love what you're talking about.
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And when you were speaking, one of the things that came to me is I have a spiritual teacher who says, your experience is unique.
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Your story And basically what he's getting at is There's other people out there who have been a father.
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There's other people who have been entrepreneurs, Your experience though is 100 percent unique and valuable in that space, but there are people who have gone through this in the past.
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And it sounds like Lifeguides is really helping to align with the community that goes there.
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And another human trait that we've talked about is the tribalism and, feeling belongingness.
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and knowing that there's somebody else out there who has gone through and been a caregiver successfully and being able to pull that information out or to rely on, that, that voice to be able to help you.
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It sounds like Lifeguide's really staged to help a lot
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That's it.
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So that's a very profound statement that you and your teacher made, and that's exactly what we're doing.
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That there are many people who have similar stories and yet all of us has our own experiences and.
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Values and limitations and beliefs and just uniqueness that makes that slightly different.
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And that provides that, that nuance that provides that sense of personalization, that provides that deeper level of connection when you start to unravel some of those threads that are special to you, but also are transferable, frankly, to other people that are going to help on their experience and how they reflect in that shared story, And there's power in that.
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And that's also, to your point, We believe, and we see this firsthand, that when you go through something challenging or even traumatic, the, that the reason for that, the purpose of that is one to help you, but also to help others to be shared, to be transformed and transmuted in service so that it is recycled and repurposed and reused.
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To help other people on their way.
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And I believe that at a core level, that's what we're doing.
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And so it is an exciting time.
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And we can only do it right now because of the technological advances that have happened in how people, are now comfortable in the sharing economy, if you will.
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They're more comfortable in connecting and being more open in this kind of format that you and I are speaking in right now, or virtual tools.
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They're more comfortable in, in confronting.
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Mental health or what were historically stigmatized topics that people didn't go there, but now we see that and social media and the way we're doing this are normalizing and bringing awareness to that way that we all are experiencing life.
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And there, there are certainly, shadow and challenging sides of that as well, but there's also a massive gift and opportunity that we see that we're capitalizing on or sharing on.
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That's fantastic.
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And I love that you brought up the shadow side of this because there's The shadow that we know, or the shadow is never anything that we know, but there's the good shadow and then the shadow that harms us, on an individual level.
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But I'd like to go to the technology side of this.
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your mission is powerful, there's direct benefit that millions of people can see from the work that you're doing.
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not just the people that work with you, but additionally the people that they interact with as well.
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Where do you see technology is hindering?
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Like our mental health and then additionally, where's technology helping to align us with our own
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Yeah.
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so back to social media for a second, I'll comment on that and also talk to hardware, So what social media has done, that is both a blessing and a curse, if I can put it that way, is that it's accelerated everyone's information access and awareness of other people in real time.
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it's also created, What I'll call more people are much more surface level.
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like you hear about this concept all the time.
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We're more connected and more lonely than ever.
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The reason for that is because everyone is like a mile wide and an inch deep.
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and you see the highlights and you see what's people, the story that people construct, for that platform.
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And it's not necessarily representative of reality in the day to day mundane things that we all do as people.
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That's part of being human.
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It's just that moment by moment.
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Reality of living and it does not capture that well.
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And so that's one aspect of where I think it's social media has done a disservice and partly where we're trying to counterbalance that by saying, go deeper in an interaction with a person or people.
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In a way that you may not typically have done with someone you didn't know that well, or a quote unquote stranger in the sense of a guide, you build a relationship.
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So that's one aspect of it.
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And then secondarily, to back to technology, because we have access to cell phones and devices round the clock, again, back to the beauty of information and access and everything can be, consumed at the matter of a click or two, and everybody, we now have this conditioning for instant gratification.
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And we're constantly on our phones, distracting ourselves from being present.
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And I think that's another element and that's causing, frankly, that looping, frankly better term of people's presence or lack of presence.
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And they're living in a way that is not helping them and they're, and they are, frankly, addicting themselves mentally to these devices and, not necessarily aware of that fully.
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and if you're not careful, If you run in, if you allow the software to run you, quote unquote, you will surround yourself into echo chambers and it's easy to go into places that are, not conducive to people's best selves or past potential coming through.
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And so those are, we can have a whole conversation around just this topic, frankly, and I've, I am passionate about this, but I think that's a key driver of, mental health.
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And then in addition, getting into the real world, we.
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Beyond numbing ourselves, it is, people are not as physically active.
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They are not as, interactive with one another in real life.
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That's also undermining them.
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our diets and how we consume, not just digital information, but all sorts of information, food and otherwise are not helping, that.
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And I just think there's a lot of contributing factors in society, but this is an element of it.
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And Yeah, that's a symbol of what we are trying to do with lifeguides.
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Again, is bring people back to using this to connect, to talk with someone, to refine and define healthier habits and usage of technology, and hopefully go back into the real world and apply that in their day to day lives to have healthier relationships, have healthier mindsets and to make better decisions.
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In the type of content and the type of, contents that we consume in every aspect of our life.
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And we're definitely going to dive deeper into that because the one thing I just want to touch on is while you were speaking about the aspects of where technology has led us down a path that isn't in our best interest and no fault of technology, but really it comes down to everything you are, what you eat and everything is food.
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And today I'm literally walking around with junk food in my pocket or like the easiest accessible, but I could also have it, it could be carrots.
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It could be, something else that actually helps to serve it.
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And the vision that you've outlined here is how do we actually bring ourselves to using technology to bring us closer to other people or to connect us to the people that we can, relate with as well?
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in the ideal state, let's see, even 20 years down the line, go total Jetsons on us.
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how does Lifeguides fit into, your daily life?
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And my daily life as well as a
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to your point, I think that, everybody, so just to comment, everyone's going to have a unique experience of how they, live their life.
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and, But I believe that in an ideal situation, you are going on using lifeguides on a regular, if not daily, basis to have a session.
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To get some insight and perspective on something that you're doing in your life that you want to improve upon, And it could be everything from your career to your relationships, to your mindset, to your parenting, to your struggles.
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there's the idea that you can go on and you can, much how people use Google today to search on something, you can go on and you can access the collective wisdom and insight of the crowd and work will be better and better at doing that.
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and to your point, there is no reason that anyone should.
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have to be suffering in silence, if you will, knowing that there's someone out there that they can access almost instantaneously to talk with them and get some perspective on this.
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And so I think that, but I think at the same time there is this, you can call it dystopian or utopian environment where you meant, in our pre call we're talking about artificial or augmented reality and virtual reality.
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If you like.
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Where is that intersection between the temporal world and the digital world?
00:20:02.944 --> 00:20:04.454
And what is the right balance of that?
00:20:04.454 --> 00:20:09.625
And, it's a really challenging spot to be in because I, for, from our perspective, we have, we do have young children.
00:20:10.085 --> 00:20:13.484
We give them very limited technology access, like very limited.
00:20:13.795 --> 00:20:19.555
people would probably say it's on the extreme, And that's intentional considering that I'm in, the technology business.
00:20:19.724 --> 00:20:27.144
And I have other peers that are, their kids are literally with, wrapping headsets around and they're gaming multiple hours a day.
00:20:27.144 --> 00:20:31.275
And, that there's an, there's a use case that says that's part of the reality that we're moving towards.
00:20:31.275 --> 00:20:35.164
And so there's a lot of research on both sides and I, there's no clear answer.
00:20:35.164 --> 00:21:02.380
Although my gut says that For the mental health and long term, best of what makes human beings human, you need to give a healthy dose of nature, of genuine human connection and, non digital interventions, to then be supplemented with the best of technology, access to speed of information, and to be doing it in a way that, you are in discernment and I'm not going to use control, but you are calling the shots on how technology.
00:21:02.684 --> 00:21:11.365
is playing a role and a supportive role and a tool as opposed to you are the, you are at the control of the technology and the information itself.
00:21:12.565 --> 00:21:15.545
I, I love this conversation for a couple of reasons.
00:21:15.555 --> 00:21:18.424
One, it's going to be really impactful for the people that are listening.
00:21:18.515 --> 00:21:39.634
knowing that you have to be able to walk away from it, get nature, get exercise, have connection with people because we're both sitting down here in offices and there's a lot of connection that you can do in this space, but there's something to be said about that in person, that like direct human to human contact that we can go.
00:21:40.275 --> 00:21:44.434
And I know for myself, like I have an AI that I've trained as Carl Young.
00:21:45.144 --> 00:21:49.255
so I can do lightweight therapy with Carl Young.
00:21:49.275 --> 00:21:53.555
And at the same time, like it can be really insightful for what I can share.
00:21:53.904 --> 00:22:01.019
and also it's not a human, Like it's not that level of empathy, compassion, connection that you can go.
00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:01.920
it's still grounded
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:02.490
Yes.
00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:06.279
what are some of the warning signs that people can be aware of?
00:22:06.289 --> 00:22:10.529
if the technology is driving them, like how do you wake up from that
00:22:10.653 --> 00:22:13.978
so that's a whole, let me share something that kind, that supports what you just said.
00:22:13.978 --> 00:22:14.817
Then I'll answer your question.
00:22:14.907 --> 00:22:17.067
So there's some research that shows right now.
00:22:17.508 --> 00:22:32.038
with like chatbots or AI therapy type of interventions, that the initial experience of chatting with a bot, for example, or, with even an avatar of, Carl Jung, for instance, which is super cool, by the way, that we can do that.
00:22:32.518 --> 00:22:39.157
While your initial experience of that will generate positive outcomes that drops and dips quickly.
00:22:39.298 --> 00:22:46.502
so whereas with a human intervention, you're going to receive a consistency and potentially a gradual upswing.
00:22:46.752 --> 00:22:49.232
What you're going to see with digital is this up and then down.
00:22:49.303 --> 00:22:50.623
that's what they're seeing right now.
00:22:50.972 --> 00:23:03.532
And specifically related to mental health, for example, that there's an acute moment where it's helpful in the moment, but it does not provide sustained relational support because we know on a core level that it's not humanity.
00:23:03.923 --> 00:23:22.542
At the same time, I read an article the other day and it was talking about sadly, this team that had literally built a relationship for another term with an AI woman and was like, I'm going to leave and committed suicide because he felt that he was going to connect with this digital woman that he had built a relationship with.
00:23:22.542 --> 00:23:37.353
like that's the level of extreme that we have at risk of how this technology when not, I don't want to say what not being fully aware of how it can be utilized for young impressionable minds in particular can be distorted and, misplaced.
00:23:37.373 --> 00:23:39.182
And there's risk of that in every aspect of life.
00:23:39.192 --> 00:23:57.363
But that's a particularly profound example, And I think that to your point, we, there are ways even in a device that notifies you of when you've exceeded your intended interaction with a device, like you can, I'm highly, encouraging of using time setting and limits on certain apps.
00:23:57.363 --> 00:24:05.542
especially when it comes to social media or other pieces, I think it's important to step away and examine your thoughts, so I do this a lot.
00:24:05.593 --> 00:24:10.143
even in debating politics, for example, taking a step back, what is this really about?
00:24:10.192 --> 00:24:12.692
asking a lot of that deeper level of why is this important?
00:24:12.813 --> 00:24:13.663
What's driving this?
00:24:13.682 --> 00:24:14.353
Is this value?
00:24:14.353 --> 00:24:16.893
Is this serving this relationship?
00:24:16.893 --> 00:24:18.442
Is it serving my interests?
00:24:18.442 --> 00:24:19.673
Is it serving that other person?
00:24:19.732 --> 00:24:27.903
it requires another level of just awareness of the interface between you as a person, your thoughts.
00:24:28.198 --> 00:24:32.688
You're in outward expression with that technology as well as how that affects your relationship with others.
00:24:32.948 --> 00:24:39.278
And I don't know, in fact, I'm quite certain that we've not done an effective job yet of helping to teach the next generation how to do that.
00:24:39.278 --> 00:24:46.857
And in fact, we hear oftentimes from this generation, this emerging generation of youth that they feel more comfortable talking with their devices than they do talking to real people.
00:24:47.057 --> 00:24:48.288
And how alarming is that,
00:24:48.458 --> 00:24:56.567
Oh, it's scary, Like just to think that your kids are growing up in a world where this is their comfort and there's so much beauty out there that they're missing.
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.900
and also at the same time, think you and I are probably around the same age.
00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:01.720
We grew up without cell phones.
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:13.720
We grew up pre internet actually my internet was hitting us right around high school, like comparison, So we had touched grass, Like we were out there, we were in nature, we were lost for hours.
00:25:13.992 --> 00:25:16.222
There was like no connectivity.
00:25:16.232 --> 00:25:22.212
And at the same time that gave us some grounding and there's no way to walk away from that.
00:25:22.367 --> 00:25:31.988
And in fact, from like 2006 to probably 2015, every vacation I chose to go on was a place where my cell phone wouldn't work.
00:25:32.748 --> 00:25:33.498
I no longer
00:25:33.538 --> 00:25:33.917
Yeah.
00:25:34.137 --> 00:25:35.877
that's basically, like the cell phone works.
00:25:36.298 --> 00:25:41.438
I have one more vacation that I can do that, but I have to go into the Amazon three day trip.
00:25:42.458 --> 00:25:47.067
And I'm starting to think that they're probably a year or two away of actually being fully connected.
00:25:47.218 --> 00:25:50.367
which then means you have to take responsibility to turn it off,
00:25:50.627 --> 00:25:51.637
exactly.
00:25:51.692 --> 00:25:59.303
and that's where the shift is going back to is the individual has to take responsibility to disconnect, not because you can no longer.
00:25:59.303 --> 00:26:01.732
Just circumstantially disconnect at that point.
00:26:02.032 --> 00:26:03.353
I remember back to your comment.
00:26:03.383 --> 00:26:04.492
So yes, I think it's fascinating.
00:26:04.502 --> 00:26:20.232
I believe our generation that moment like in time of the pre post actually has a really important role to play in this time because it's almost like the transition of a new an old age and a new age, the pre and the post of technology playing the role of ubiquitous access.
00:26:20.803 --> 00:26:21.343
And you know what?
00:26:21.383 --> 00:26:24.282
AI has that same sort of transition point.
00:26:24.282 --> 00:26:44.952
I think it's even more important for what you're doing at Lifeguides now, to take those lessons that we've learned from the last 20, 30 years of this, into this new space of now you have a technology that's so advanced that if its goals aren't aligned with yours, You have to recognize that because it will manipulate you into getting its
00:26:45.768 --> 00:26:47.198
there's certainly a risk of that.
00:26:47.542 --> 00:26:52.823
even social media, We've seen this with social media, like optimizing for attention.
00:26:53.682 --> 00:27:02.140
It figured out that fear and anger are great ways to get you engaged, but living in those states isn't healthy for you and I.
00:27:02.542 --> 00:27:07.603
And we're talking about technology that's probably going to be a hundred times, a thousand times more sophisticated.
00:27:07.603 --> 00:27:13.502
So how would you recommend that people connect to themselves, in this space?
00:27:13.532 --> 00:27:15.692
And additionally, how do you sign up for life
00:27:15.803 --> 00:27:21.282
So, that former question, so one, I'm not big on giving advice.
00:27:21.323 --> 00:27:21.682
That's right.
00:27:21.702 --> 00:27:25.363
just to be clear, that's even part of the guide's model, We don't tell you what to do.
00:27:25.752 --> 00:27:34.623
We ask questions to help you figure out what is important to you and to help mirror Information that would be useful in that.
00:27:34.643 --> 00:27:40.222
And also to share, from my experience or from that person experience, what might be helpful to know, For instance.
00:27:40.553 --> 00:27:53.663
to that point, I have personally experienced a lot of, value in being very intentional with Create Windows, where I am disconnected from technology that I am present with my children, with my wife, with my family, that I am.
00:27:54.123 --> 00:28:27.847
Prioritizing physical exercise and, prioritizing my dietary choices and how I show up in the 3D world independent of technology and that, I am seek out opportunities to be around people and to be around, both trusted relationships and new relationships and to learn about that and to put myself in environments that Might even make me uncomfortable with the intention to work that muscle, if you will.
00:28:28.147 --> 00:28:31.508
And then to be able to use that and apply that in the lens of technology.
00:28:31.778 --> 00:28:36.538
And so in some ways it is simple to, to understand it, but it's not easy to do.
00:28:37.018 --> 00:28:40.288
And that is something that I have made it a practice and I track it.
00:28:40.448 --> 00:28:42.998
I hold myself accountable to these things, right?
00:28:43.067 --> 00:28:44.288
on a day by day basis.
00:28:44.288 --> 00:28:52.357
I see we're both wearing aura rings and that's just one example, but It's got to the point where even all those other things outside of technology are being tracked.
00:28:52.407 --> 00:28:53.607
And that's my suggestion.
00:28:53.607 --> 00:28:54.817
and if, and seek counsel.
00:28:55.038 --> 00:29:00.438
Not advice, but seek other people who have a perspective on this, and get their point of view on it.
00:29:00.708 --> 00:29:05.688
Particularly if you're challenged or believe there's something that, that there's, that you don't know.
00:29:06.097 --> 00:29:06.478
let's do it.
00:29:06.557 --> 00:29:12.758
And and then to your question about life guides, at the present moment, we only offer life guides through employers.
00:29:12.768 --> 00:29:20.798
So at some point in the future, we will offer this as a consumer product, but right now, and there's a whole of a reason why we've done it this way, which is a whole other conversation.
00:29:21.167 --> 00:29:22.877
We offer it through employers.
00:29:22.948 --> 00:29:31.597
and if you want it, talk to your manager or talk to your team and say, can we buy life guides for some subset of our population or the whole company.
00:29:31.847 --> 00:29:33.268
So that you can have access to it.
00:29:33.607 --> 00:29:42.157
and the reason why we do this, cause we believe that the intersection of work and life is a really important fulcrum point and that's because we spend considerable time in our work.
00:29:42.488 --> 00:29:48.178
that's a place where that starts to, outside into both spheres of influence of people's lives.
00:29:48.528 --> 00:29:50.307
And yeah, seek, go to lifeguides.
00:29:50.307 --> 00:29:50.788
com.
00:29:50.788 --> 00:29:57.853
put in a demo request, ask for a subscription, Get your boss to buy it and you'll get access to this network of lifeguides.
00:29:58.452 --> 00:30:06.306
yeah.
00:30:06.407 --> 00:30:13.538
We've been running FINdustries for 12 years now and in 2018 I had a little bit of a midlife crisis myself in which
00:30:13.627 --> 00:30:21.480
Yeah.
00:30:21.554 --> 00:30:25.663
But at the same time, I'm missing out on connections with friends and family.
00:30:26.253 --> 00:30:34.013
And so what we ended up doing is after, the story's longer, but really the end result of it was we're only going to work with friends.
00:30:34.844 --> 00:30:37.723
And so that means changing how we interacted with each other.
00:30:37.733 --> 00:30:40.243
It changed half of our clients.
00:30:40.263 --> 00:30:44.530
We ended up having to end some relationships, in a peaceful manner.
00:30:44.983 --> 00:30:47.094
But at the same time, we changed it that way.
00:30:47.094 --> 00:30:55.314
And so your angle of going through the employer employee relationship in that is a really impactful spot in people's lives.
00:30:55.324 --> 00:30:57.013
So really awesome.
00:30:57.594 --> 00:30:58.503
Lifeguides.
00:30:58.503 --> 00:31:00.413
com is the website.
00:31:00.473 --> 00:31:02.584
And Derek, thank you so much for
00:31:02.749 --> 00:31:03.439
you for having me, Don.
00:31:03.439 --> 00:31:06.898
It's been a pleasure, and I appreciate your curiosity and your enthusiasm for this topic.
00:31:07.608 --> 00:31:13.798
Thank you for tuning into The Human Code, sponsored by FINdustries, where we harness AI to elevate your business.
00:31:14.219 --> 00:31:19.858
By improving operational efficiency and accelerating growth, we turn opportunities into reality.
00:31:20.838 --> 00:31:25.989
Let FINdustries be your guide to AI mastery, making success inevitable.
00:31:26.689 --> 00:31:28.628
Explore how at FINdustries.
00:31:29.048 --> 00:31:29.368
co.
00:00:00.380 --> 00:00:08.259
Welcome to The Human Code, the podcast where technology meets humanity, and the future is shaped by the leaders and innovators of today.
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:15.919
I'm your host, Don Finley, inviting you on a journey through the fascinating world of tech, leadership, and personal growth.
00:00:16.469 --> 00:00:26.219
Here, we delve into the stories of visionary minds, Who are not only driving technological advancement, but also embodying the personal journeys and insights that inspire us all.
00:00:26.739 --> 00:00:37.130
Each episode, we explore the intersections where human ingenuity meets the cutting edge of technology, unpacking the experiences, challenges, and triumphs that define our era.
00:00:37.579 --> 00:00:47.350
So, whether you are a tech enthusiast, an inspiring entrepreneur, or simply curious about the human narratives behind the digital revolution, you're in the right place.
00:00:47.630 --> 00:00:49.590
Welcome to The Human Code.
00:00:50.530 --> 00:00:52.661
Today, we're joined by Derek Lundsten.
00:00:53.021 --> 00:00:56.981
A transformative leader, passionate about the intersection of humanity and technology.
00:00:57.250 --> 00:01:05.740
As the president and chief culture officer at life guides, Derek is redefining how technology connects people through mentorship and shared human experiences.
00:01:06.230 --> 00:01:16.611
His career spans innovative ventures, including his leadership of scrimmage and advisory roles in healthcare technology, startups, where he focuses on empowering individuals and teams to thrive.
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In this episode, Derek shares his journey of combining spiritual exploration with technological innovation.
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We'll dive into the founding of life guides and its mission to harness technologies, to match individuals with mentors, providing empathetic support during life's challenges.
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Derek also explores the delicate balance of leveraging technology while maintaining meaningful human connections in a rapidly digitalizing world.
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Join us for an inspiring conversation about the future of technology, the enduring importance of human connection and how we can navigate a world increasingly shaped by AI and innovation.
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I'm here with Derek Lundsten and Derek and I have just had a nice little pre show conversation.
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I'm really digging what we're going to talk about today, but Derek, first question for you.
00:02:03.875 --> 00:02:06.224
What got you interested in the intersection of humanity and
00:02:06.415 --> 00:02:10.544
Well, thanks for having me on, Don, and the topic is very relevant.
00:02:10.555 --> 00:02:20.405
So I think on a simple level, I've always been more interested in humanity and what drives people as at the core, and the technology piece, I think, happened.
00:02:20.650 --> 00:02:24.000
Circumstantially, just in many ways, based on the time that we live in.
00:02:24.330 --> 00:02:31.949
but from a young age, I've been, interested in pursuing what drives people, their purpose, their interests, and why we're here.
00:02:31.949 --> 00:02:33.819
And that's something that I've personally explored.
00:02:34.090 --> 00:02:47.634
and then spending a considerable amount of time in my education, studying that from a philosophical and a psychological perspective, really what makes people tick and like I said, as I, Entered the workforce, following studying in university.
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I ended up working in consulting and technology businesses that were focusing specifically the time in the healthcare space.
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And so that lent itself to a natural convergence of where humanity and technology come together.
00:03:00.284 --> 00:03:15.819
And over the last couple of decades, That's only really accelerated, As we've seen the ad, the renaissance of technology as I'm going to refer to it and what we're seeing now, on the topic of artificial intelligence and personalization, it's just getting more and more accelerated from that point of view.
00:03:15.830 --> 00:03:21.659
So I think we're at a really fascinating moment of the convergence of humanity and technology.
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and I've had the privilege over the last couple of decades of building businesses and starting companies.
00:03:26.500 --> 00:03:27.310
that have been in that space.
00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:48.199
And even the one that I'm working in now, which on my shirt, life guides, which we'll talk a bit about, but at the core, the entire essence of that business is about the intersection of humanity and technology using technology specifically for the purposes of connecting people to other people who can be mentors or guides, in navigating life experiences, life events, and life challenges.
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Helping people to be at their best or in moments of challenge or struggle to be there and be supportive and empathetic resources and drive efficiencies.
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of accessing those resources to improve their life circumstances.
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That's what we do.
00:03:59.965 --> 00:04:03.944
and that's really core to what I am doing in my life's work.
00:04:04.044 --> 00:04:05.775
so yeah, great question, Don.
00:04:05.824 --> 00:04:12.264
And I love this and I feel if I ask you questions about your personal journey, we're going to end up hitting on life guide as well.
00:04:12.305 --> 00:04:19.935
And like in both sides of it, but when you spoke about people's drive, their purpose, and like what are their interests, how does that process look for you?
00:04:19.995 --> 00:04:23.214
Or what was the most insightful thing that you got from that
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I'll just share a little story.
00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:36.189
So I added at the age, and I've shared this on a few other podcasts, the age of seven, for whatever reason, I was already asking myself, the question that many people ask at some point in their life or persistently in their life.
00:04:36.569 --> 00:04:37.509
Why am I here?
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And that was the, and I remember it vividly just being in my childhood bedroom and having, for lack of a better term a conversation with myself or with God or whatever saying what am I here for?
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What am I here to do?
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What am I here to learn?
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And that question has driven me for my entire life in terms of, Things that I've pursued or studied or just been interested in.
00:05:00.795 --> 00:05:17.704
And similar to this idea of connecting with guides, the idea, I can't imagine, or, I know for certain that I'm not the only person that experienced that question or experiences that question either, like I said, consistently, or at some moment in their life where they have an awakening and they're like, what are we doing here?
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What am I doing here?
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And yeah, I've just always been fascinated by.
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That question in other people's lives as well.
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Like, why do people do what they do?
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why are they interested in what they're interested in?
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Why are we connected in the certain ways that we are?
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And as I said, I studied as a spiritual seeker for most of my, early teens and early twenties.
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That question, from a spiritual lens, studying philosophy, and I was particularly interested in existentialism and eastern philosophy.
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I've gone on a whole faith journey, that's brought me back to a true personal relationship and where I look at that from my intersection with God.
00:05:51.875 --> 00:05:55.524
but at the end of the day, it's, we're here in this temporal realm of the world.
00:05:56.014 --> 00:06:00.454
Connections and relationships and lots of possibilities and things to explore.
00:06:00.824 --> 00:06:16.805
And so I have always been fascinated by people and by that aspect and how that layers through generations and through our kind of existence as a species about what makes people tick and technology has been an accelerator of information.
00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:24.430
of knowledge, of the ability to apply that knowledge and reorganize how power structures and organizational structures are formed.
00:06:24.930 --> 00:06:29.970
And there's been many instances along that journey, Don, that have been important for me.
00:06:30.230 --> 00:06:39.240
but I also think that I get that question to your point, I was in an entrepreneur's group, that was specifically focusing on this idea of, okay, we live in a world of exponential technologies.
00:06:39.250 --> 00:06:40.240
Think, Genomics.
00:06:40.250 --> 00:06:41.689
Think artificial intelligence.
00:06:41.689 --> 00:06:42.600
Think robotics.
00:06:42.620 --> 00:06:43.439
Think longevity.
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.069
This was 10 years ago.
00:06:45.089 --> 00:06:58.480
And the question was, okay, if those technologies are going to influence the trajectory of human innovation and potentiality, the question that myself and my business partners that we met through that group were asking is, what does not change?
00:06:58.529 --> 00:06:59.579
What makes people?
00:06:59.589 --> 00:07:00.649
What makes humanity?
00:07:00.709 --> 00:07:13.589
What is unique to us in terms of that spiritual, that emotional, that desire for love, that desire for purpose, that sharing of empathy, that sharing of life experience, that sharing of wisdom, that sharing of struggle, that's what makes humanity.
00:07:13.790 --> 00:07:16.680
And we said that those things are not going to transition.
00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:24.870
And so with that as the foundation, what business, what we build that would still be there, regardless of how we change from a technological standpoint.
00:07:24.870 --> 00:07:25.569
So if we develop.
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:38.579
revolutionary technologies related to how we can feed people or to manage our, the crises that we never really face or that we could heal diseases or that we can reverse aging or that we can travel into interplanetary realities.
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Like what's still going to make humanity.
00:07:40.449 --> 00:07:43.199
And that was part of the driving question of this particular group.
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and more specifically for the business partners that I met and we created with.
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And that's really where Lifeguides was birthed was through that network.
00:07:51.560 --> 00:08:00.680
now coming back to life guides because you like guides, you briefly mentioned it's basically using technology in order to match people based on like their needs.
00:08:00.709 --> 00:08:02.420
And so how does that look for you?
00:08:02.747 --> 00:08:08.187
yeah, so I'll share in the context of that group that it was, there was actually a specific topic.
00:08:08.187 --> 00:08:16.038
So my business partner and another one of our partners, they were sharing their experience that they had both become caregivers for their parents who had dementia.
00:08:16.038 --> 00:08:21.788
And these at the time, these are, mid fifties, late fifties year old or early fifties, mid fifties, general gentlemen.
00:08:21.788 --> 00:08:25.307
So That had experienced financial success.
00:08:25.317 --> 00:08:26.468
They were well educated.
00:08:26.468 --> 00:08:27.247
They were well networked.
00:08:27.257 --> 00:08:28.228
They experienced the world.
00:08:28.668 --> 00:08:46.628
And even with all those privileges and even with all that opportunity, there was still this acknowledgement that it's really hard to be a caregiver, because of their demands on your emotions, on your identity, on seeing your parent go through that evolution in their life, their eventual, degradation of their quality of life and transitioning of their life.
00:08:46.658 --> 00:08:52.847
And Let alone the emotional, there's also the financial and the practical considerations that you have in a caregiving relationship.
00:08:53.307 --> 00:08:55.798
And so they had this question of acknowledgement.
00:08:55.798 --> 00:08:58.057
So imagine, for us, it's this challenging.
00:08:58.357 --> 00:09:06.738
How much harder is it for people that don't have the means, the education, the financial resources, the connections that we've been blessed to have?
00:09:07.077 --> 00:09:11.128
What if we could build and, one of those partners actually was a founder of match.
00:09:11.307 --> 00:09:11.758
com.
00:09:12.087 --> 00:09:13.197
What if we could build a match.
00:09:13.427 --> 00:09:29.697
com like experience, not for dating, but for caregivers to find their person who'd been through that so they could pick their brain, not through searching on Google for hours and hours on end, but talk to someone and get real world firsthand experience and counsel from someone who'd been through that.
00:09:29.707 --> 00:09:31.577
And I had, secondhand seen this.
00:09:31.577 --> 00:09:37.057
I was not a caregiver directly for my grandparents, but I'd seen my dad and my stepmom be that for my grandparents.
00:09:37.307 --> 00:09:40.288
And so I had a lens removed of saying, okay, I can empathize.
00:09:40.288 --> 00:09:42.557
I can relate to what these gentlemen are going through.
00:09:42.798 --> 00:09:45.587
Having been caregivers, I've seen it secondhand.
00:09:45.587 --> 00:09:46.697
So I understand it.
00:09:46.927 --> 00:10:05.133
And what I saw as well was that same model applies not just for caregiving, but for any life experience, whether it be, becoming a parent for the first time, Going through a relationship transition or a divorce or relocating across the country for a promotion or transitioning from active duty military to civilian life.
00:10:05.163 --> 00:10:16.572
These are all examples of hundreds of unique experiences that people go through every day where they may or may not have the resources, the knowledge, the network or the experience to figure it out.
00:10:16.602 --> 00:10:24.993
And so it's invaluable to be able to talk with someone or some people about who know personally and have been through it and successfully been through it.
00:10:25.373 --> 00:10:27.832
These are the things that I wish I had known at the time.
00:10:27.842 --> 00:10:29.753
These are the things that you should be aware of.
00:10:29.763 --> 00:10:38.903
Here's things, there's resources and places that you can go and access information to improve the efficiency or the taxing of the emotions or mental taxation that happens in that way.
00:10:38.913 --> 00:10:41.442
And so that's really what Lifeguides is doing.
00:10:41.442 --> 00:10:48.613
And the cool part about it is because we are all human beings and we all are experiencing these challenges and these moments of struggle and triumph.
00:10:49.128 --> 00:10:54.488
All of us has a story or experiences or attributes that we are able to then share.
00:10:54.488 --> 00:11:07.538
And so we're tapping into this unrealized potential of human wisdom and insight to be communicated in real time in a moment of someone's need or opportunity for growth where they've chosen that and they've sought that.
00:11:07.577 --> 00:11:15.363
And think back to where we were in tribal natures, Where you'd go seek your elders, you would seek your Those in the village who'd been through the situation.
00:11:15.523 --> 00:11:22.253
We now have an internet like you and I are talking across the country right now, as if we're sitting in the same room and same thing.
00:11:22.263 --> 00:11:24.173
You could talk to someone on the other side of the world.
00:11:24.427 --> 00:11:35.918
Who had been a caregiver, who had been through a certain situation that might have a knowledge or experience, and you can learn from them in a very rare and unique way that is now becoming more and more accessible because of this technology innovation,
00:11:36.457 --> 00:11:37.298
I love what you're talking about.
00:11:37.298 --> 00:11:44.697
And when you were speaking, one of the things that came to me is I have a spiritual teacher who says, your experience is unique.
00:11:44.778 --> 00:11:51.163
Your story And basically what he's getting at is There's other people out there who have been a father.
00:11:51.163 --> 00:11:59.562
There's other people who have been entrepreneurs, Your experience though is 100 percent unique and valuable in that space, but there are people who have gone through this in the past.
00:11:59.562 --> 00:12:04.763
And it sounds like Lifeguides is really helping to align with the community that goes there.
00:12:04.763 --> 00:12:10.033
And another human trait that we've talked about is the tribalism and, feeling belongingness.
00:12:10.557 --> 00:12:21.457
and knowing that there's somebody else out there who has gone through and been a caregiver successfully and being able to pull that information out or to rely on, that, that voice to be able to help you.
00:12:21.457 --> 00:12:25.388
It sounds like Lifeguide's really staged to help a lot
00:12:25.418 --> 00:12:25.668
That's it.
00:12:25.908 --> 00:12:30.577
So that's a very profound statement that you and your teacher made, and that's exactly what we're doing.
00:12:30.648 --> 00:12:36.618
That there are many people who have similar stories and yet all of us has our own experiences and.
00:12:36.988 --> 00:12:42.778
Values and limitations and beliefs and just uniqueness that makes that slightly different.
00:12:42.778 --> 00:13:02.868
And that provides that, that nuance that provides that sense of personalization, that provides that deeper level of connection when you start to unravel some of those threads that are special to you, but also are transferable, frankly, to other people that are going to help on their experience and how they reflect in that shared story, And there's power in that.
00:13:02.868 --> 00:13:25.143
And that's also, to your point, We believe, and we see this firsthand, that when you go through something challenging or even traumatic, the, that the reason for that, the purpose of that is one to help you, but also to help others to be shared, to be transformed and transmuted in service so that it is recycled and repurposed and reused.
00:13:25.543 --> 00:13:27.403
To help other people on their way.
00:13:27.503 --> 00:13:30.222
And I believe that at a core level, that's what we're doing.
00:13:30.613 --> 00:13:32.283
And so it is an exciting time.
00:13:32.283 --> 00:13:41.702
And we can only do it right now because of the technological advances that have happened in how people, are now comfortable in the sharing economy, if you will.
00:13:41.712 --> 00:13:48.712
They're more comfortable in connecting and being more open in this kind of format that you and I are speaking in right now, or virtual tools.
00:13:48.722 --> 00:13:51.722
They're more comfortable in, in confronting.
00:13:52.307 --> 00:14:06.748
Mental health or what were historically stigmatized topics that people didn't go there, but now we see that and social media and the way we're doing this are normalizing and bringing awareness to that way that we all are experiencing life.
00:14:06.788 --> 00:14:15.248
And there, there are certainly, shadow and challenging sides of that as well, but there's also a massive gift and opportunity that we see that we're capitalizing on or sharing on.
00:14:15.347 --> 00:14:16.518
That's fantastic.
00:14:16.668 --> 00:14:27.857
And I love that you brought up the shadow side of this because there's The shadow that we know, or the shadow is never anything that we know, but there's the good shadow and then the shadow that harms us, on an individual level.
00:14:27.857 --> 00:14:30.768
But I'd like to go to the technology side of this.
00:14:30.817 --> 00:14:37.873
your mission is powerful, there's direct benefit that millions of people can see from the work that you're doing.
00:14:38.342 --> 00:14:42.503
not just the people that work with you, but additionally the people that they interact with as well.
00:14:42.932 --> 00:14:45.472
Where do you see technology is hindering?
00:14:46.288 --> 00:14:52.317
Like our mental health and then additionally, where's technology helping to align us with our own
00:14:52.533 --> 00:14:52.832
Yeah.
00:14:52.883 --> 00:15:06.182
so back to social media for a second, I'll comment on that and also talk to hardware, So what social media has done, that is both a blessing and a curse, if I can put it that way, is that it's accelerated everyone's information access and awareness of other people in real time.
00:15:06.182 --> 00:15:10.763
it's also created, What I'll call more people are much more surface level.
00:15:10.773 --> 00:15:12.192
like you hear about this concept all the time.
00:15:12.192 --> 00:15:13.893
We're more connected and more lonely than ever.
00:15:14.253 --> 00:15:18.863
The reason for that is because everyone is like a mile wide and an inch deep.
00:15:19.442 --> 00:15:26.442
and you see the highlights and you see what's people, the story that people construct, for that platform.
00:15:26.472 --> 00:15:31.942
And it's not necessarily representative of reality in the day to day mundane things that we all do as people.
00:15:31.942 --> 00:15:33.182
That's part of being human.
00:15:33.182 --> 00:15:34.773
It's just that moment by moment.
00:15:35.177 --> 00:15:38.337
Reality of living and it does not capture that well.
00:15:38.347 --> 00:15:50.038
And so that's one aspect of where I think it's social media has done a disservice and partly where we're trying to counterbalance that by saying, go deeper in an interaction with a person or people.
00:15:50.408 --> 00:15:57.077
In a way that you may not typically have done with someone you didn't know that well, or a quote unquote stranger in the sense of a guide, you build a relationship.
00:15:57.077 --> 00:15:58.388
So that's one aspect of it.
00:15:58.697 --> 00:16:16.077
And then secondarily, to back to technology, because we have access to cell phones and devices round the clock, again, back to the beauty of information and access and everything can be, consumed at the matter of a click or two, and everybody, we now have this conditioning for instant gratification.
00:16:16.432 --> 00:16:20.763
And we're constantly on our phones, distracting ourselves from being present.
00:16:21.052 --> 00:16:28.052
And I think that's another element and that's causing, frankly, that looping, frankly better term of people's presence or lack of presence.
00:16:28.322 --> 00:16:37.903
And they're living in a way that is not helping them and they're, and they are, frankly, addicting themselves mentally to these devices and, not necessarily aware of that fully.
00:16:37.952 --> 00:16:52.243
and if you're not careful, If you run in, if you allow the software to run you, quote unquote, you will surround yourself into echo chambers and it's easy to go into places that are, not conducive to people's best selves or past potential coming through.
00:16:52.482 --> 00:17:01.523
And so those are, we can have a whole conversation around just this topic, frankly, and I've, I am passionate about this, but I think that's a key driver of, mental health.
00:17:01.552 --> 00:17:05.413
And then in addition, getting into the real world, we.
00:17:05.843 --> 00:17:09.403
Beyond numbing ourselves, it is, people are not as physically active.
00:17:09.712 --> 00:17:13.692
They are not as, interactive with one another in real life.
00:17:13.762 --> 00:17:15.093
That's also undermining them.
00:17:15.452 --> 00:17:22.432
our diets and how we consume, not just digital information, but all sorts of information, food and otherwise are not helping, that.
00:17:22.432 --> 00:17:26.593
And I just think there's a lot of contributing factors in society, but this is an element of it.
00:17:26.722 --> 00:17:30.403
And Yeah, that's a symbol of what we are trying to do with lifeguides.
00:17:30.403 --> 00:17:49.903
Again, is bring people back to using this to connect, to talk with someone, to refine and define healthier habits and usage of technology, and hopefully go back into the real world and apply that in their day to day lives to have healthier relationships, have healthier mindsets and to make better decisions.
00:17:50.248 --> 00:17:55.667
In the type of content and the type of, contents that we consume in every aspect of our life.
00:17:56.863 --> 00:18:16.403
And we're definitely going to dive deeper into that because the one thing I just want to touch on is while you were speaking about the aspects of where technology has led us down a path that isn't in our best interest and no fault of technology, but really it comes down to everything you are, what you eat and everything is food.
00:18:17.009 --> 00:18:25.150
And today I'm literally walking around with junk food in my pocket or like the easiest accessible, but I could also have it, it could be carrots.
00:18:25.150 --> 00:18:28.799
It could be, something else that actually helps to serve it.
00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:42.160
And the vision that you've outlined here is how do we actually bring ourselves to using technology to bring us closer to other people or to connect us to the people that we can, relate with as well?
00:18:42.317 --> 00:18:47.367
in the ideal state, let's see, even 20 years down the line, go total Jetsons on us.
00:18:47.367 --> 00:18:50.917
how does Lifeguides fit into, your daily life?
00:18:51.327 --> 00:18:53.018
And my daily life as well as a
00:18:53.049 --> 00:18:59.920
to your point, I think that, everybody, so just to comment, everyone's going to have a unique experience of how they, live their life.
00:19:00.289 --> 00:19:11.065
and, But I believe that in an ideal situation, you are going on using lifeguides on a regular, if not daily, basis to have a session.
00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:23.059
To get some insight and perspective on something that you're doing in your life that you want to improve upon, And it could be everything from your career to your relationships, to your mindset, to your parenting, to your struggles.
00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:33.849
there's the idea that you can go on and you can, much how people use Google today to search on something, you can go on and you can access the collective wisdom and insight of the crowd and work will be better and better at doing that.
00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:36.759
and to your point, there is no reason that anyone should.
00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:46.279
have to be suffering in silence, if you will, knowing that there's someone out there that they can access almost instantaneously to talk with them and get some perspective on this.
00:19:46.569 --> 00:19:57.589
And so I think that, but I think at the same time there is this, you can call it dystopian or utopian environment where you meant, in our pre call we're talking about artificial or augmented reality and virtual reality.
00:19:57.589 --> 00:19:57.815
If you like.
00:19:58.244 --> 00:20:02.944
Where is that intersection between the temporal world and the digital world?
00:20:02.944 --> 00:20:04.454
And what is the right balance of that?
00:20:04.454 --> 00:20:09.625
And, it's a really challenging spot to be in because I, for, from our perspective, we have, we do have young children.
00:20:10.085 --> 00:20:13.484
We give them very limited technology access, like very limited.
00:20:13.795 --> 00:20:19.555
people would probably say it's on the extreme, And that's intentional considering that I'm in, the technology business.
00:20:19.724 --> 00:20:27.144
And I have other peers that are, their kids are literally with, wrapping headsets around and they're gaming multiple hours a day.
00:20:27.144 --> 00:20:31.275
And, that there's an, there's a use case that says that's part of the reality that we're moving towards.
00:20:31.275 --> 00:20:35.164
And so there's a lot of research on both sides and I, there's no clear answer.
00:20:35.164 --> 00:21:02.380
Although my gut says that For the mental health and long term, best of what makes human beings human, you need to give a healthy dose of nature, of genuine human connection and, non digital interventions, to then be supplemented with the best of technology, access to speed of information, and to be doing it in a way that, you are in discernment and I'm not going to use control, but you are calling the shots on how technology.
00:21:02.684 --> 00:21:11.365
is playing a role and a supportive role and a tool as opposed to you are the, you are at the control of the technology and the information itself.
00:21:12.565 --> 00:21:15.545
I, I love this conversation for a couple of reasons.
00:21:15.555 --> 00:21:18.424
One, it's going to be really impactful for the people that are listening.
00:21:18.515 --> 00:21:39.634
knowing that you have to be able to walk away from it, get nature, get exercise, have connection with people because we're both sitting down here in offices and there's a lot of connection that you can do in this space, but there's something to be said about that in person, that like direct human to human contact that we can go.
00:21:40.275 --> 00:21:44.434
And I know for myself, like I have an AI that I've trained as Carl Young.
00:21:45.144 --> 00:21:49.255
so I can do lightweight therapy with Carl Young.
00:21:49.275 --> 00:21:53.555
And at the same time, like it can be really insightful for what I can share.
00:21:53.904 --> 00:22:01.019
and also it's not a human, Like it's not that level of empathy, compassion, connection that you can go.
00:22:01.069 --> 00:22:01.920
it's still grounded
00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:02.490
Yes.
00:22:03.259 --> 00:22:06.279
what are some of the warning signs that people can be aware of?
00:22:06.289 --> 00:22:10.529
if the technology is driving them, like how do you wake up from that
00:22:10.653 --> 00:22:13.978
so that's a whole, let me share something that kind, that supports what you just said.
00:22:13.978 --> 00:22:14.817
Then I'll answer your question.
00:22:14.907 --> 00:22:17.067
So there's some research that shows right now.
00:22:17.508 --> 00:22:32.038
with like chatbots or AI therapy type of interventions, that the initial experience of chatting with a bot, for example, or, with even an avatar of, Carl Jung, for instance, which is super cool, by the way, that we can do that.
00:22:32.518 --> 00:22:39.157
While your initial experience of that will generate positive outcomes that drops and dips quickly.
00:22:39.298 --> 00:22:46.502
so whereas with a human intervention, you're going to receive a consistency and potentially a gradual upswing.
00:22:46.752 --> 00:22:49.232
What you're going to see with digital is this up and then down.
00:22:49.303 --> 00:22:50.623
that's what they're seeing right now.
00:22:50.972 --> 00:23:03.532
And specifically related to mental health, for example, that there's an acute moment where it's helpful in the moment, but it does not provide sustained relational support because we know on a core level that it's not humanity.
00:23:03.923 --> 00:23:22.542
At the same time, I read an article the other day and it was talking about sadly, this team that had literally built a relationship for another term with an AI woman and was like, I'm going to leave and committed suicide because he felt that he was going to connect with this digital woman that he had built a relationship with.
00:23:22.542 --> 00:23:37.353
like that's the level of extreme that we have at risk of how this technology when not, I don't want to say what not being fully aware of how it can be utilized for young impressionable minds in particular can be distorted and, misplaced.
00:23:37.373 --> 00:23:39.182
And there's risk of that in every aspect of life.
00:23:39.192 --> 00:23:57.363
But that's a particularly profound example, And I think that to your point, we, there are ways even in a device that notifies you of when you've exceeded your intended interaction with a device, like you can, I'm highly, encouraging of using time setting and limits on certain apps.
00:23:57.363 --> 00:24:05.542
especially when it comes to social media or other pieces, I think it's important to step away and examine your thoughts, so I do this a lot.
00:24:05.593 --> 00:24:10.143
even in debating politics, for example, taking a step back, what is this really about?
00:24:10.192 --> 00:24:12.692
asking a lot of that deeper level of why is this important?
00:24:12.813 --> 00:24:13.663
What's driving this?
00:24:13.682 --> 00:24:14.353
Is this value?
00:24:14.353 --> 00:24:16.893
Is this serving this relationship?
00:24:16.893 --> 00:24:18.442
Is it serving my interests?
00:24:18.442 --> 00:24:19.673
Is it serving that other person?
00:24:19.732 --> 00:24:27.903
it requires another level of just awareness of the interface between you as a person, your thoughts.
00:24:28.198 --> 00:24:32.688
You're in outward expression with that technology as well as how that affects your relationship with others.
00:24:32.948 --> 00:24:39.278
And I don't know, in fact, I'm quite certain that we've not done an effective job yet of helping to teach the next generation how to do that.
00:24:39.278 --> 00:24:46.857
And in fact, we hear oftentimes from this generation, this emerging generation of youth that they feel more comfortable talking with their devices than they do talking to real people.
00:24:47.057 --> 00:24:48.288
And how alarming is that,
00:24:48.458 --> 00:24:56.567
Oh, it's scary, Like just to think that your kids are growing up in a world where this is their comfort and there's so much beauty out there that they're missing.
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.900
and also at the same time, think you and I are probably around the same age.
00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:01.720
We grew up without cell phones.
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:13.720
We grew up pre internet actually my internet was hitting us right around high school, like comparison, So we had touched grass, Like we were out there, we were in nature, we were lost for hours.
00:25:13.992 --> 00:25:16.222
There was like no connectivity.
00:25:16.232 --> 00:25:22.212
And at the same time that gave us some grounding and there's no way to walk away from that.
00:25:22.367 --> 00:25:31.988
And in fact, from like 2006 to probably 2015, every vacation I chose to go on was a place where my cell phone wouldn't work.
00:25:32.748 --> 00:25:33.498
I no longer
00:25:33.538 --> 00:25:33.917
Yeah.
00:25:34.137 --> 00:25:35.877
that's basically, like the cell phone works.
00:25:36.298 --> 00:25:41.438
I have one more vacation that I can do that, but I have to go into the Amazon three day trip.
00:25:42.458 --> 00:25:47.067
And I'm starting to think that they're probably a year or two away of actually being fully connected.
00:25:47.218 --> 00:25:50.367
which then means you have to take responsibility to turn it off,
00:25:50.627 --> 00:25:51.637
exactly.
00:25:51.692 --> 00:25:59.303
and that's where the shift is going back to is the individual has to take responsibility to disconnect, not because you can no longer.
00:25:59.303 --> 00:26:01.732
Just circumstantially disconnect at that point.
00:26:02.032 --> 00:26:03.353
I remember back to your comment.
00:26:03.383 --> 00:26:04.492
So yes, I think it's fascinating.
00:26:04.502 --> 00:26:20.232
I believe our generation that moment like in time of the pre post actually has a really important role to play in this time because it's almost like the transition of a new an old age and a new age, the pre and the post of technology playing the role of ubiquitous access.
00:26:20.803 --> 00:26:21.343
And you know what?
00:26:21.383 --> 00:26:24.282
AI has that same sort of transition point.
00:26:24.282 --> 00:26:44.952
I think it's even more important for what you're doing at Lifeguides now, to take those lessons that we've learned from the last 20, 30 years of this, into this new space of now you have a technology that's so advanced that if its goals aren't aligned with yours, You have to recognize that because it will manipulate you into getting its
00:26:45.768 --> 00:26:47.198
there's certainly a risk of that.
00:26:47.542 --> 00:26:52.823
even social media, We've seen this with social media, like optimizing for attention.
00:26:53.682 --> 00:27:02.140
It figured out that fear and anger are great ways to get you engaged, but living in those states isn't healthy for you and I.
00:27:02.542 --> 00:27:07.603
And we're talking about technology that's probably going to be a hundred times, a thousand times more sophisticated.
00:27:07.603 --> 00:27:13.502
So how would you recommend that people connect to themselves, in this space?
00:27:13.532 --> 00:27:15.692
And additionally, how do you sign up for life
00:27:15.803 --> 00:27:21.282
So, that former question, so one, I'm not big on giving advice.
00:27:21.323 --> 00:27:21.682
That's right.
00:27:21.702 --> 00:27:25.363
just to be clear, that's even part of the guide's model, We don't tell you what to do.
00:27:25.752 --> 00:27:34.623
We ask questions to help you figure out what is important to you and to help mirror Information that would be useful in that.
00:27:34.643 --> 00:27:40.222
And also to share, from my experience or from that person experience, what might be helpful to know, For instance.
00:27:40.553 --> 00:27:53.663
to that point, I have personally experienced a lot of, value in being very intentional with Create Windows, where I am disconnected from technology that I am present with my children, with my wife, with my family, that I am.
00:27:54.123 --> 00:28:27.847
Prioritizing physical exercise and, prioritizing my dietary choices and how I show up in the 3D world independent of technology and that, I am seek out opportunities to be around people and to be around, both trusted relationships and new relationships and to learn about that and to put myself in environments that Might even make me uncomfortable with the intention to work that muscle, if you will.
00:28:28.147 --> 00:28:31.508
And then to be able to use that and apply that in the lens of technology.
00:28:31.778 --> 00:28:36.538
And so in some ways it is simple to, to understand it, but it's not easy to do.
00:28:37.018 --> 00:28:40.288
And that is something that I have made it a practice and I track it.
00:28:40.448 --> 00:28:42.998
I hold myself accountable to these things, right?
00:28:43.067 --> 00:28:44.288
on a day by day basis.
00:28:44.288 --> 00:28:52.357
I see we're both wearing aura rings and that's just one example, but It's got to the point where even all those other things outside of technology are being tracked.
00:28:52.407 --> 00:28:53.607
And that's my suggestion.
00:28:53.607 --> 00:28:54.817
and if, and seek counsel.
00:28:55.038 --> 00:29:00.438
Not advice, but seek other people who have a perspective on this, and get their point of view on it.
00:29:00.708 --> 00:29:05.688
Particularly if you're challenged or believe there's something that, that there's, that you don't know.
00:29:06.097 --> 00:29:06.478
let's do it.
00:29:06.557 --> 00:29:12.758
And and then to your question about life guides, at the present moment, we only offer life guides through employers.
00:29:12.768 --> 00:29:20.798
So at some point in the future, we will offer this as a consumer product, but right now, and there's a whole of a reason why we've done it this way, which is a whole other conversation.
00:29:21.167 --> 00:29:22.877
We offer it through employers.
00:29:22.948 --> 00:29:31.597
and if you want it, talk to your manager or talk to your team and say, can we buy life guides for some subset of our population or the whole company.
00:29:31.847 --> 00:29:33.268
So that you can have access to it.
00:29:33.607 --> 00:29:42.157
and the reason why we do this, cause we believe that the intersection of work and life is a really important fulcrum point and that's because we spend considerable time in our work.
00:29:42.488 --> 00:29:48.178
that's a place where that starts to, outside into both spheres of influence of people's lives.
00:29:48.528 --> 00:29:50.307
And yeah, seek, go to lifeguides.
00:29:50.307 --> 00:29:50.788
com.
00:29:50.788 --> 00:29:57.853
put in a demo request, ask for a subscription, Get your boss to buy it and you'll get access to this network of lifeguides.
00:29:58.452 --> 00:30:06.306
yeah.
00:30:06.407 --> 00:30:13.538
We've been running FINdustries for 12 years now and in 2018 I had a little bit of a midlife crisis myself in which
00:30:13.627 --> 00:30:21.480
Yeah.
00:30:21.554 --> 00:30:25.663
But at the same time, I'm missing out on connections with friends and family.
00:30:26.253 --> 00:30:34.013
And so what we ended up doing is after, the story's longer, but really the end result of it was we're only going to work with friends.
00:30:34.844 --> 00:30:37.723
And so that means changing how we interacted with each other.
00:30:37.733 --> 00:30:40.243
It changed half of our clients.
00:30:40.263 --> 00:30:44.530
We ended up having to end some relationships, in a peaceful manner.
00:30:44.983 --> 00:30:47.094
But at the same time, we changed it that way.
00:30:47.094 --> 00:30:55.314
And so your angle of going through the employer employee relationship in that is a really impactful spot in people's lives.
00:30:55.324 --> 00:30:57.013
So really awesome.
00:30:57.594 --> 00:30:58.503
Lifeguides.
00:30:58.503 --> 00:31:00.413
com is the website.
00:31:00.473 --> 00:31:02.584
And Derek, thank you so much for
00:31:02.749 --> 00:31:03.439
you for having me, Don.
00:31:03.439 --> 00:31:06.898
It's been a pleasure, and I appreciate your curiosity and your enthusiasm for this topic.
00:31:07.608 --> 00:31:13.798
Thank you for tuning into The Human Code, sponsored by FINdustries, where we harness AI to elevate your business.
00:31:14.219 --> 00:31:19.858
By improving operational efficiency and accelerating growth, we turn opportunities into reality.
00:31:20.838 --> 00:31:25.989
Let FINdustries be your guide to AI mastery, making success inevitable.
00:31:26.689 --> 00:31:28.628
Explore how at FINdustries.
00:31:29.048 --> 00:31:29.368
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