Episode 024 - Interview Ray Lopez, author of "Lock Up: Professional Wrestling in Our World" (Part 1)

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If by some chance, some stroke of luck, or some act of God, you have stumbled upon this broadcast, you are listening to The Chivalry Chronicles with your host, Dr.
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DLH.
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I'm a damn doctor!
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David.
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We're going to bring the tea.
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I refuse to not drink during the podcast.
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Yeah.
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And me, Jaime.
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They need to make podcast equipment a lot more expensive to get some of these clowns off the air.
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Gather around as we discuss a modern manly approach to chivalry.
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So I hope you're ready because I know we are.
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So let's get into it.
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There you go.
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We're sitting here.
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I believe somebody's coming in from the green room, and I hope he was taken care of.
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Our guest today is Ray Lopez, attorney at law.
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Yeah.
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Where's the gavel?
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There it is.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So we were talking about this.
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Ray wrote a book about wrestling.
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And we decided, hey, come on the podcast and let's discuss.
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We have some listeners that are wrestling fans.
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We have MT with us who joined us for the Guadalupe Peak.
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Welcome.
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And David, you have anything or...
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No, I'm
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always
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here Let's get into it, right?
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Ray, you wrote a book.
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It's called Lock Up.
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It's on Amazon.
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Correct.
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Amazon, Barnes& Nobles, and wherever you find good books.
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Whenever, wherever.
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Hey, like at the Pearl downtown.
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It's there?
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It is at the Pearl downtown at the bookstore.
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Yeah, there's a bookstore right there.
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We go to that bookstore all the time, and...
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It just so happens every book that I want, they're like, we don't have it.
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We can order it.
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And I was like, no, I came to the bookstore to buy the damn book.
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I can order that shit from home.
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I'll get that shit tonight.
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I kind of just want to see it.
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But yeah, tell us a little bit about yourself.
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You are an attorney.
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You went to Baylor University.
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Is that where you got your law degree?
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No.
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Oh, good.
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It's at the Twig bookstore at the Pearl.
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The Twig.
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That's right.
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Down there.
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And yeah, it's always exciting when I see the Twig sends me an envelope with checks.
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That means a couple of books have flown off the shelf.
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Nice.
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So you do get an actual check?
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From bookstores, you do.
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Like from the big distributors, that's kind of like a direct bank transfer.
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But from the little bookstores that we're in, then yeah, they'll periodically send it.
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You don't do like Trump where you buy your own book to make it look like it's selling really well?
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I don't think Trump is alone in doing that.
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I think a lot of authors love to do that.
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They want the big spike out there.
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But no, I haven't done that.
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Yeah.
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So tell us a little bit about yourself.
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Tell us first what you do as a profession.
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We like to kid about professionals here.
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DLH, which isn't here, is our professional.
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But there are actual professionals that do professional work.
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So just tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we'll get into how you got into writing this book.
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Sure, absolutely.
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So I was born and raised in San Antonio, Texas, over here on the west side.
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Proud alumni of John F.
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Kennedy.
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And then after I finished my high school education, I did one year at San Antonio Community College here in town.
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And then eventually I transferred over to Baylor, where I finished my undergraduate degree.
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Took a year off, and then I ended up founding myself at Texas Tech for law school.
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Worked a few jobs.
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three or four different cities across Texas, going for different firms.
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Finally decided I think the best life for me would be just to do my own thing, be my own boss, and just go out on my own.
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So I returned home in 2013 to San Antonio, opened up my own little law firm, and, you know, it was a struggle at first, but things are great now.
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They've been steadily climbing.
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Got a good clientele basis.
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It's been very busy.
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So I've been blessed that things have been going great here.
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Great.
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Do you have a specialty in what type of lawyer you are?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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We handle personal injury cases, family law cases, and some criminal defense matters as well.
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Okay, so now you know DWIs.
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Yeah, I've handled lots of DWIs.
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Because,
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you know, David might need one.
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No, I've already used Ray for other services.
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Thank you.
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I do appreciate it, and I do love my repeat clients.
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I'm here whenever you need me.
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Keep getting in trouble.
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I'm here whenever you need me.
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Okay, so here's my questions, and then I'll give it to MT or David if you want to chime in.
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My question is because I'm really interested in what got you into writing.
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Did you do that in high school?
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Were you always like an avid– Did you love doing research papers?
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That type of stuff.
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Because I fancy myself wanting to write a book, but I'm always like, what about?
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You know what I'm saying?
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So what got you into this topic?
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What got you into writing?
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What gave you the audacity to think you could write a book?
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Well, I'll start with the writing in general.
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It did start when I was in high school.
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I did like to write then.
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And throughout high school and college, I was working on...
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unfinished, still unfinished novel.
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Totally different from the type of book I was writing.
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But I was writing that for, you know, several years off and on working on it.
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So you started another novel, like previously?
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Previously another novel.
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It was more of like a true crime fiction set in Latin America because I had...
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One of my degrees was in Latin American studies, so all that was fresh in my mind.
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So I figured we could use that, and we'd have a true crime type of story about an American that goes down there, and some of those things happen.
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I was really old school on that one.
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That one, I was literally writing pen to paper in a journal by hand.
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I still got that journal somewhere.
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So I was working on that for a while, and then I got into law school.
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Once I got into law school, I mean, we're talking about, like, Your first year, you're reading like 200 pages a day.
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So there was no mental energy to keep at it with the book.
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And so I kind of put my passion for writing on the back burner.
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That's kind of how I got my first experience getting into writing.
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As a lawyer, there's a lot of crossover as far as you have to write stuff and briefs and things like that, so do you get a lot of practice in that way, or is it a different type of writing that you have to do for law?
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I would say it's a totally different type of writing.
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I mean, you are telling a story to a certain degree, but of course you have to have it all in the proper formats and the proper rules and all that.
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It's totally different than creative writing.
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You're telling a story, but you're telling a story based off...
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what somebody told you and you're putting it down there.
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And most of it is in legal jargon and making sure you have all your legal T's and I's dotted and crossed, so to speak.
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And, you know, I think when you spend your time doing a lot of that legal writing, it can't drain you to where like, you know, trying to write creatively, you know, becomes that much more harder because you kind of already like you've exhausted your writing for the days.
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Like I've written enough, you know, I just wrote a 48 page divorce.
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So, so
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I don't want to write
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anymore.
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Outside of, outside of that, then would you say that you started more on the creative side growing up?
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Is it something that you just did randomly?
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Did you keep a journal or were you writing stories as part of a school project or something like that in general?
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Or is it just more, hey, I'm not busy or this is what I want to do with my time right now and...
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You would write stories?
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Yeah, when I had free time here and there, I would just write out.
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One of my things I used to do back then if I had a few free moments is I would head to my local coffee shop.
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There's a couple cool ones in town.
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Grab some coffee and sit there like old school style, pen and paper, and just sit there and try to write it down.
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And I could end up staying at some of those coffee shops all day just trying to write in different things, coming up with different things.
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Nowadays, things have changed more.
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It's more in front of a computer.
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There's a lot of advantages to doing it through the computer, through the phone, through all the technology we have.
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I used to love going to coffee shops, just sitting there with the journal and just trying to write something out.
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Getting
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that free coffee.
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Trying to look sophisticated so they'd come and notice me.
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Oh, an author.
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So how did you get into this topic?
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What made you kind of out of everything?
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Because there's so many things to write about.
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how did you get into just doing a book about wrestling?
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Right.
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Professional wrestling.
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You know, we got to, it's not like, you know, Nebraska.
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Yeah.
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Nebraska, you know, like wrestling.
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No, this is actual professional wrestling.
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You know, what you notice, you know, two guys in a ring, you know, in tights.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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The book's about professional wrestling in the world that is, you know, in it and all the things, professional wrestling.
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But I really got the idea once COVID hit and when COVID hit, I started, you know, I was at home all the time, especially during early days of COVID, trying to figure out what to do.
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So, you know, I got back into working out.
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I was starting to get on my machine, usually cranking out like 45 minutes to an hour a day.
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It was something I didn't do before COVID because I didn't have the time.
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I was trying to go down to town.
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I had to be at the office.
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You know, it totally changed a life.
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So I was looking for something that was easy to watch while I was working out that you could just go back to, easy.
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Periodic shows are kind of hard because if it's an hour long and, hey, I don't have an hour, I need to stop it because I got to get ready because I have to be on a Zoom or I got to meet with somebody or whatever the case is.
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So professional wrestling was kind of perfect in the way that you could watch it either in 15 minutes, 30 minutes, 45 minutes.
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You could just watch one match at a time and be like, okay, I watched that one match and then move on.
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So I was like, well, let me start watching old wrestling.
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So I went back and watched old wrestling pay-per-views and would just keep going periodically and follow the pay-per-views as I go through one pay-per-view over a span of two or three days and go to the next one.
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After watching enough of them, I'd be like, man, I should really do something with this because I still had a whole bunch of time on my hands.
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So I was like, why don't I write a book about professional wrestling?
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And so you're saying like old pay-per-views.
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Let's get to like, all right, what era...
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Because I think we both have the same era of watching wrestling, which is the Attitude Era.
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Were you watching that just that far back or further, 80s, 90s?
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Where were you at?
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Well, you know, I've been a lifelong fan.
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I've been following and seeing a lot of the classic stuff.
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But when I started this specific project...
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Chris Jericho was just on fire at that time.
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And I was a big Jericho-holic.
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I still am.
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And I was like, well, let me start from when Chris Jericho debuted on WWE.
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So I picked
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that as my...
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Okay, when he started in WWE.
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When he
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started in WWE or WWF at the time.
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So I picked that as my starting point.
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And I kind of started from there.
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The Y2J, the countdown.
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Oh, man, that was good stuff, bro.
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Yeah, I didn't want to go too far back because I'd watched a lot of the old ones multiple times.
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But yeah, I thought that was a good starting point for me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, and I tried to do the same thing around the same time because, I mean, at the time, we were still watching all wrestling on Peacock, right?
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Right.
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I think this was WWE Network.
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I think it was WWE Network when
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I started
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this.
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Oh, man, it was so...
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WWE Network, for those of you who don't know, so it was just this deep and wide, vast archive of every wrestling that there was, right?
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Because WWE or WWF at the time bought everybody up.
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They bought...
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All of their recordings.
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They bought all the WCW recordings.
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So you can watch everything.
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It used to be like you flip channels between WCW and WWF and check out what's going on.
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Yeah, I always remember growing up,
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it was USA Network for WWF and then WCW for on TBS.
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Yeah, TBS.
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Was that where for the longest time?
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Yeah.
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So I did the same thing.
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I was trying to kind of flip back and forth.
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Like, all right, let me watch this Nitro thing.
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This is WCW.
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And then let me jump over here and watch the corresponding WWF, like Monday Night Raw.
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And that's just, it was too big of a task.
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But yeah, that's something that I really like to do at that time too.
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Yeah, and it's still something that's carried over today.
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I mean, you know, I got in my morning workout today.
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Watched it, finished SmackDown from last night because I didn't get a chance to finish it.
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So put it on, you're by yourself.
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Like,
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okay.
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So are you watching reruns of matches or you're mainly sticking to the most recent?
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I mean, it depends how caught up I am, right?
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Yeah, like when you're saying caught up, this is your first time watching those then.
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Like this morning, for example, was my first time watching the SmackDown from last night, you know?
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Gotcha.
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I can't watch all the rest of the night.
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It's on, I mean, what, four days out of the night?
00:14:00.317 --> 00:14:00.836
All the time.
00:14:01.498 --> 00:14:02.799
I didn't realize it's that.
00:14:03.280 --> 00:14:04.942
I thought it was just like a Monday Night Raw.
00:14:05.123 --> 00:14:09.669
Like this is the best time to be a fan because it's everywhere.
00:14:10.114 --> 00:14:14.057
Tuesday night is NXT, which we kind of went over this beforehand.
00:14:14.097 --> 00:14:17.062
We don't watch NXT, but it's there.
00:14:17.121 --> 00:14:22.407
It's like WWE's, what do you call it, minor league talents.
00:14:23.128 --> 00:14:23.749
Developmental show.
00:14:23.769 --> 00:14:24.850
Yeah, developmental show.
00:14:25.291 --> 00:14:27.352
So they bring up a lot of their guys that come up from there.
00:14:27.373 --> 00:14:31.397
And then Wednesday nights is AEW, which I don't watch AEW either.
00:14:31.417 --> 00:14:31.437
I
00:14:32.778 --> 00:14:33.600
still watch AEW.
00:14:33.620 --> 00:14:34.159
You still watch it?
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:35.261
I still watch it.
00:14:36.863 --> 00:14:39.225
I was a lot more excited for it at the beginning, I'll tell you that.
00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:52.408
Because for us, it was like, oh, man, this is upstart company that's in a challenge WWE and make, you know, make all tides rise because competition is better programming.
00:14:52.929 --> 00:14:55.774
So I don't feel it's doing that anymore.
00:14:55.793 --> 00:14:57.316
So I don't really watch it.
00:14:57.736 --> 00:14:57.956
Right.
00:14:57.976 --> 00:14:59.298
So there's so much on TV.
00:14:59.418 --> 00:14:59.519
Right.
00:14:59.538 --> 00:15:01.522
And I can't just sit there and be watching all the time.
00:15:02.003 --> 00:15:03.926
Of course, we have a life and a family and.
00:15:04.258 --> 00:15:06.539
The wife wants to watch other things, too.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:08.422
It's just 100% understandable.
00:15:08.501 --> 00:15:09.462
And my daughter takes over the TV.
00:15:09.482 --> 00:15:10.683
Yeah, that's the thing.
00:15:10.943 --> 00:15:13.947
So I find a lot of the good time I get to watch this is when I get my morning workout in.
00:15:14.027 --> 00:15:15.828
I've got 35 minutes, 45 minutes.
00:15:16.289 --> 00:15:22.556
And now if I'll catch up and I'm caught up to everything, then I'll go back to the old pay-per-views and keep watching.
00:15:23.196 --> 00:15:24.518
Just so I can stay active.
00:15:24.658 --> 00:15:31.083
So with both of you, really, since you continue, and then maybe Jaime, chime in on your perspective.
00:15:31.884 --> 00:15:32.846
Like, I remember...
00:15:33.538 --> 00:15:39.527
about the time frame that I was watching, and I just, I shut wrestling off at a certain point.
00:15:39.547 --> 00:15:42.431
I'll tell you exactly the day I shut wrestling off.
00:15:43.091 --> 00:15:44.494
Did they get rid of all the Hispanics?
00:15:45.274 --> 00:15:47.477
No, but that would have gave me a good reason.
00:15:47.498 --> 00:15:50.501
Did you discover yourself?
00:15:50.522 --> 00:15:50.601
Yeah.
00:15:50.621 --> 00:15:51.884
Did you find out it wasn't real?
00:15:52.946 --> 00:15:56.230
No, that last one was why.
00:15:56.269 --> 00:16:05.162
So I remember being in elementary school, thinking this stuff is real, Come on, man.
00:16:05.883 --> 00:16:07.424
WWF was coming to Amarillo.
00:16:08.765 --> 00:16:10.028
My dad bought us tickets.
00:16:11.288 --> 00:16:16.775
I'm in the nosebleeds, but in Amarillo, it's only 5,000 seats, so nosebleeds is not that bad, right?
00:16:17.015 --> 00:16:18.577
And I had binoculars.
00:16:18.638 --> 00:16:19.399
It's open seating.
00:16:21.601 --> 00:16:31.573
Anyways, I had some binoculars, and I'm watching Brutus the Barber Beefcake punching millionaire...
00:16:31.937 --> 00:16:34.041
Ted DiBiase, right?
00:16:34.903 --> 00:16:43.576
And he's got him in the corner, and I put my binoculars to my eyes, and I'm watching, and those punches are just missing.
00:16:44.397 --> 00:16:49.985
And Ted DiBiase's head's just flying back, and I'm like, what the heck?
00:16:50.625 --> 00:16:52.027
And it destroyed me.
00:16:52.307 --> 00:16:56.812
So that was probably around fifth grade, fourth grade, fifth grade.
00:16:56.972 --> 00:17:02.719
And then after that, maybe if somebody, if I was at a friend's house and they had it on, it's not a big deal.
00:17:02.778 --> 00:17:04.980
But after that, I just lost all interest.
00:17:05.121 --> 00:17:10.946
All my little monos or my little figurines all went to the freaking toy box for the rest of their days.
00:17:12.048 --> 00:17:14.029
But yeah, I mean, that's mine.
00:17:14.069 --> 00:17:14.911
What year was
00:17:15.592 --> 00:17:15.751
that?
00:17:15.791 --> 00:17:17.233
Well, that would have been...
00:17:18.433 --> 00:17:23.681
Fifth grade, I would have been about 11 years old, so probably 90, 91, somewhere along
00:17:23.721 --> 00:17:24.162
that time.
00:17:24.301 --> 00:17:29.107
When did you realize that Arnold Schwarzenegger wasn't a
00:17:29.127 --> 00:17:29.228
robot?
00:17:29.248 --> 00:17:29.568
From Total
00:17:29.588 --> 00:17:30.009
Recall?
00:17:30.470 --> 00:17:31.932
Yeah, when did you...
00:17:31.951 --> 00:17:32.211
That
00:17:32.373 --> 00:17:33.334
movies aren't real.
00:17:33.354 --> 00:17:40.163
I mean, that's the big argument for all those wrestling fans, is when people say, it's not real, why would I even watch that?
00:17:40.282 --> 00:17:41.785
I don't want to watch that, it's not real.
00:17:42.346 --> 00:17:45.569
It's like, yeah, well, movies aren't real, and everything,
00:17:45.630 --> 00:17:47.432
TV shows...
00:17:48.609 --> 00:18:05.540
Greg Stossel?
00:18:12.993 --> 00:18:13.634
Right.
00:18:14.035 --> 00:18:14.915
Yeah, it was back in the day.
00:18:15.036 --> 00:18:15.817
There's a few of those.
00:18:15.856 --> 00:18:16.498
There's a few of them.
00:18:16.538 --> 00:18:23.586
Yeah, so seeing that, you would almost get into arguments in elementary school.
00:18:23.626 --> 00:18:24.488
Like, no, it is real.
00:18:24.548 --> 00:18:25.429
They're blah, blah, blah.
00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:26.931
Santa is real.
00:18:27.010 --> 00:18:30.755
And you had arguments in your third grade or whatever, second grade.
00:18:31.916 --> 00:18:33.258
But I think you're missing the point of it.
00:18:33.317 --> 00:18:34.298
Like, it's entertainment.
00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:36.020
No, and that's cool.
00:18:36.281 --> 00:18:36.903
But it
00:18:37.063 --> 00:18:37.603
destroyed
00:18:37.663 --> 00:18:37.903
my...
00:18:38.324 --> 00:18:39.645
I think David's point is probably not...
00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:40.250
No, a
00:18:41.073 --> 00:18:42.055
lot of people have that point.
00:18:42.095 --> 00:18:42.856
A lot of people when they
00:18:42.876 --> 00:18:51.419
were young kids and they grow up and they finally realize that it's all just a big show, they kind of feel like betrayed because they believe that they were all in it.
00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:57.074
I remember when I was a kid watching it and I saw Ultimate Warrior getting cursed by Pomposhango and he was...
00:18:57.665 --> 00:19:00.188
vomiting up this vile green stuff.
00:19:01.489 --> 00:19:03.530
The fakest thing that you could possibly imagine.
00:19:03.810 --> 00:19:05.051
But I was there as like a little kid.
00:19:05.071 --> 00:19:06.993
I don't remember how old I was, maybe like seven or younger.
00:19:07.734 --> 00:19:08.836
Believing that it was all real.
00:19:08.855 --> 00:19:10.497
I was like, holy shit, is he going to be okay?
00:19:11.417 --> 00:19:11.958
Is he going to be all right?
00:19:11.978 --> 00:19:13.279
What's going to happen?
00:19:13.299 --> 00:19:14.621
Can somebody get a doctor out there?
00:19:15.141 --> 00:19:15.902
And then when you finally...
00:19:16.221 --> 00:19:17.442
I'm going to become a doctor.
00:19:17.803 --> 00:19:20.165
When that light hits, it's like, hey, that whole thing was just fake.
00:19:20.546 --> 00:19:22.307
There is a little bit of betrayment on there.
00:19:22.627 --> 00:19:25.509
But, you know, I think most wrestling fans get over that.
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:26.530
Yeah.
00:19:26.550 --> 00:19:27.192
Oh, okay.
00:19:27.211 --> 00:19:27.632
Well, it's a show.
00:19:27.632 --> 00:19:28.792
And it's fun.
00:19:28.932 --> 00:19:29.334
It's still fun.
00:19:29.354 --> 00:19:30.055
And then they get back.
00:19:30.115 --> 00:19:34.920
So, I mean, so wrestling is when you're Hispanic, right?
00:19:35.019 --> 00:19:35.381
Growing up.
00:19:35.580 --> 00:19:37.061
And I was born in Mexico.
00:19:37.102 --> 00:19:39.345
So wrestling is big in Mexico, too.
00:19:39.464 --> 00:19:44.250
So they had movies, you know, El Santo, Mil Mascaras, Blue Demon.
00:19:44.530 --> 00:19:47.334
Like they had actual movies with their wearing the mask.
00:19:47.354 --> 00:19:48.795
And so you kind of grew up with that.
00:19:48.855 --> 00:19:50.636
And then I grew up in Dallas.
00:19:50.696 --> 00:19:52.819
So you had the Dallas Portatorium with the Von Erick.
00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:54.501
So when the movie came out, I was like, that's.
00:19:54.882 --> 00:19:56.364
it's a freaking homage to Dallas.
00:19:56.605 --> 00:19:57.826
Me and my brother were talking about it.
00:19:57.866 --> 00:20:00.750
And it's like, cause we went to the sportatorium to go see them.
00:20:01.372 --> 00:20:03.976
And so, I mean, we kind of followed that.
00:20:04.477 --> 00:20:09.423
And then I guess in the nineties, it got, it started getting bigger and bigger, right?
00:20:09.483 --> 00:20:14.211
That's when you started and produced like the NW, NWA, right?
00:20:14.692 --> 00:20:15.272
The NWO.
00:20:15.413 --> 00:20:28.200
Like they just, I mean, I think that's when I kind of dropped off is somewhere in the mid nineties because our whole fraternity was like, They would get together and watch every match, right?
00:20:28.259 --> 00:20:30.022
And I was like, okay, it's cool.
00:20:30.103 --> 00:20:30.824
I get it.
00:20:30.865 --> 00:20:32.928
But I'm like, I'm kind of over it.
00:20:33.067 --> 00:20:34.529
And I still followed it.
00:20:35.172 --> 00:20:41.642
And then it wasn't until probably in the 2000s when The Rock started getting bigger and bigger.
00:20:41.882 --> 00:20:43.885
And so my son kind of started getting into it.
00:20:44.165 --> 00:20:48.854
And so I was like, shit, I need to dust off all the old videos so we can start watching that again.
00:20:48.894 --> 00:20:51.357
So it's kind of like a roller coaster for me.
00:20:51.617 --> 00:21:05.403
specifically because in the 80s we watched it all the time you know late 80s in the 90s you know you go off to college you kind of don't watch it and then it picked up like somewhere between mid 90s to late 90s it was big business
00:21:05.503 --> 00:21:14.383
yeah and you missed you missed some good content there at that time like but i'm the same way like when i went to college i kind of stopped watching because yeah I was busy with other stuff.
00:21:15.544 --> 00:21:15.763
I mean,
00:21:15.784 --> 00:21:16.805
you're totally not alone in that.
00:21:16.845 --> 00:21:20.647
A lot of wrestling fans have come in and out of watching wrestling regularly.
00:21:20.667 --> 00:21:30.497
It's hard to keep up, and there's a lot of content out there, especially when you're busy, especially in college when you want to go out there and play to the rec or you're taking girls out on dates or you're studying.
00:21:30.696 --> 00:21:34.140
There's so many things that you're doing, and you also enjoy the social life aspect of it.
00:21:34.621 --> 00:21:36.182
It's real hard to keep up with it in college.
00:21:36.201 --> 00:21:38.304
I didn't really watch it in college.
00:21:38.503 --> 00:21:42.626
That's why I went back and watched all those pay-per-views that I missed on my college days because I never watched them before.
00:21:42.646 --> 00:21:43.248
They were all new to me.
00:21:43.248 --> 00:21:47.220
So like with you guys, what's your earliest memory of wrestling?
00:21:47.259 --> 00:21:52.234
Like what's the thing that comes to mind that got you into it?
00:21:52.496 --> 00:21:57.170
Well, for me, it was, I think I was about 10 years old.
00:21:57.506 --> 00:22:00.112
And my grandfather was very close to the end of his life.
00:22:00.653 --> 00:22:04.222
And he would pass on maybe within 30 days from this.
00:22:04.282 --> 00:22:05.526
But my birthday was coming up.
00:22:05.705 --> 00:22:10.979
But my mom and my tia and my tios and everybody would spend all the time in the hospital.
00:22:11.078 --> 00:22:14.247
Basically, he was in there for about a month saying goodbye to grandpa.
00:22:15.650 --> 00:22:18.932
The whole family did not, like, nobody was up for a big party, right?
00:22:19.953 --> 00:22:24.097
WWE was coming into town, and my parents, you know, they would always throw me a birthday party.
00:22:24.137 --> 00:22:24.979
They would throw all the kids.
00:22:25.398 --> 00:22:26.460
Everybody had their birthday party.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:27.701
It was just, you know, a thing that we did.
00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:32.445
And they said, well, you know, it's really, we're not, nobody's, we're not feeling up to it.
00:22:32.465 --> 00:22:36.690
I mean, we can't throw you a birthday party if you really want, but we know you like this wrestling stuff.
00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:38.131
You watch it on TV.
00:22:38.451 --> 00:22:39.291
They're coming to town.
00:22:39.913 --> 00:22:44.217
Would you rather, instead of us throwing you a birthday party, we'll just take you to the wrestling matches?
00:22:44.798 --> 00:22:48.028
I was like, That sounds 100 times better than a birthday party.
00:22:48.209 --> 00:22:49.471
It sounds like 100 times better.
00:22:49.691 --> 00:22:50.792
I was like, absolutely.
00:22:51.192 --> 00:22:53.596
So that was the first time they took me there when I was a kid.
00:22:53.616 --> 00:22:55.980
It was the first time I got to see it live.
00:22:56.059 --> 00:23:03.349
And it was just a house show, but I remember Jake the Snake was there and Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Earthquake, I think The Ultimate Warrior.
00:23:03.369 --> 00:23:09.357
It was just a fun show that really kind of got me all in from that experience.
00:23:10.298 --> 00:23:10.700
Interesting.
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:11.780
How about you, MT?
00:23:13.163 --> 00:23:15.085
I think the earliest I remember wrestling was...
00:23:15.682 --> 00:23:29.681
was the, what would they call it, the war, the wrestling war, you know, WCW, the Monday Night Wars, you know, WCW and WWF at the time and me just flipping back and forth between channels to see what's going on.
00:23:31.262 --> 00:23:40.695
Like Jaime said, when the NWO came up, that was a big thing to watch and so I was always flipping between there and WWF.
00:23:40.855 --> 00:23:42.218
On WWF, it was DX.
00:23:42.657 --> 00:23:43.499
DX is coming up.
00:23:44.059 --> 00:23:44.980
Xbox is coming up.
00:23:45.162 --> 00:23:50.248
Like, I loved X-Pac and Kane when they were in that tag team together.
00:23:50.268 --> 00:23:51.309
I thought that was the coolest thing.
00:23:51.829 --> 00:23:54.673
But that was kind of my era and when I remember watching.
00:23:54.713 --> 00:23:57.377
There may have been prior to that.
00:23:57.577 --> 00:23:59.641
But for us, it was always a family thing too.
00:24:00.481 --> 00:24:03.205
It wasn't something that my mom would sit down and watch.
00:24:03.705 --> 00:24:08.292
But all the rest of the family, that was kind of the only time where, oh shit, we're all in the same room.
00:24:08.752 --> 00:24:10.476
We're all kind of watching the same thing.
00:24:10.596 --> 00:24:12.077
And mom's right there even though...
00:24:12.642 --> 00:24:15.586
She's maybe not watching, but she's, she's around us.
00:24:16.386 --> 00:24:22.114
I mean, I, I think you, so moms are kind of funny like that.
00:24:22.153 --> 00:24:25.417
Like they're around, like I will call my mom.
00:24:25.978 --> 00:24:28.882
I can call her right now and ask her what's going on with Dallas sports.
00:24:28.922 --> 00:24:30.844
And she'll tell me everything about Dallas sports.
00:24:31.925 --> 00:24:37.271
I can ask her, you know, she, she's kind of always around.
00:24:37.571 --> 00:24:38.493
And so she knows what's that.
00:24:38.554 --> 00:24:39.894
She knows that you love wrestling.
00:24:39.934 --> 00:24:41.938
She knows that because my mom did the same thing.
00:24:42.306 --> 00:24:45.088
She understood what was going on, and so we would all get together.
00:24:45.108 --> 00:24:46.810
So all the kids are in the living room.
00:24:47.231 --> 00:24:53.078
And even my dad, as much as he's not at all interested, he would find it so hilarious.
00:24:53.138 --> 00:24:58.845
He'd be laughing there at all the nuttiness of it.
00:24:58.904 --> 00:25:01.307
And so it does become like a family thing.
00:25:02.048 --> 00:25:09.597
But I think moms are cool in the fact that they take interest because they know you're interested, so they want to stay interested.
00:25:09.698 --> 00:25:14.082
within your circle you know what I'm saying so that's a good point I didn't even think about that
00:25:14.201 --> 00:25:40.826
so I think with professional wrestling even if you're not a fan of it at all when you go see it live like my wife of course I dragged her to a few wrestling shows and she did not want to go but then when she got there she was all about she was having a great time because it was very entertaining it's a spectacle they got the music they got the good looking people coming out there they're doing all these flips they're doing these bodies they're talking smack to each other it's got a little comedy to it you know you don't have to follow storylines when you just go there and watch it I think most people will We'll be, we'll be entertained.
00:25:40.846 --> 00:25:41.026
Yeah.
00:25:41.046 --> 00:25:47.556
Ray and your chapter one of your book is talking about the gimmicks and of wrestling.
00:25:47.615 --> 00:26:02.196
And I think the gimmicks is what is a big draw for, for people, whether they're really paying attention or kind of like Jaime's father, just kind of watching it from the side, but getting a kick out of the, whether you call it silliness or whatever.
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:04.000
So
00:26:05.102 --> 00:26:09.971
I think, I think we talked about how like your book is, You don't need to read every chapter.
00:26:09.990 --> 00:26:11.233
You don't need to read it in order.
00:26:11.634 --> 00:26:23.165
But anybody that is not familiar with wrestling or has watched it, like David, I would say, you've probably already read it, but I'd suggest you read the gimmicks part first.
00:26:23.554 --> 00:26:24.997
Yeah, that's actually recommended, or
00:26:25.317 --> 00:26:26.861
you recommend that in the book, right?
00:26:27.142 --> 00:26:31.009
I think it sets up, you know, most of the hardcore fans will already know the gimmicks.
00:26:31.109 --> 00:26:41.932
But even with the hardcore fans, some of the feedback I've gotten is like, oh, it's fun to just read about the gimmicks and to try to even list more wrestlers that fall into that category of gimmick than I may have listed for you.
00:26:42.433 --> 00:26:44.297
But yeah, the gimmicks is the foundation.
00:26:44.336 --> 00:26:45.719
The story, you've got to have the characters.
00:26:45.798 --> 00:26:47.761
And out of the characters, you're making the stories.
00:26:48.282 --> 00:26:51.146
And back in the day, it used to be super easy to tell.
00:26:51.186 --> 00:26:56.655
There was the evil tax man versus the guy, the all-American hero.
00:26:57.115 --> 00:27:03.286
But as time progresses, and people kind of wanted more complex characters, some of the gimmicks progressed.
00:27:03.385 --> 00:27:05.710
But I think when you break down...
00:27:06.369 --> 00:27:07.392
any particular wrestler.
00:27:07.451 --> 00:27:18.750
I think nowadays, and this is what we do in the next chapter, which is the one directly after the gimmicks, the math and science of a wrestler, is because I think modern day, nobody's just one particular character.
00:27:19.372 --> 00:27:22.016
Most wrestlers are a combination of the traditional gimmicks, though.
00:27:22.376 --> 00:27:25.781
If you have them combine that, that's also something fun to think about.
00:27:25.801 --> 00:27:33.549
You'll see like, oh, I think of, you know, Pick a wrestler, Mercedes Monet or Will Ospreay or whoever.
00:27:33.589 --> 00:27:36.294
And you think, well, where do they fall into?
00:27:36.334 --> 00:27:38.356
What percentage of what gimmick and that gimmick?
00:27:38.718 --> 00:27:40.961
So, yeah, the characters are the foundation of it.
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.949
And the gimmicks chapter was, I believe, we had to lay the foundation for the rest of the book.
00:27:45.969 --> 00:27:48.932
Just in case there are people out there that knew nothing about professional wrestling,
00:27:49.173 --> 00:27:49.574
there was.
00:27:49.994 --> 00:27:52.278
Yeah, one of the things, and I'm just going to pick a little bit.
00:27:52.739 --> 00:27:57.286
So one of the profession gimmicks that you had was Hillbilly Jim.
00:27:57.761 --> 00:28:08.249
So is being a hillbilly his profession or should he fall within a racial stereotype of a hillbilly?
00:28:09.270 --> 00:28:10.334
That's a good question.
00:28:11.041 --> 00:28:14.666
I mean, I would say he falls into both because I think he was like Megan Moonshine.
00:28:14.747 --> 00:28:17.009
That kind of is professional.
00:28:17.090 --> 00:28:18.692
I mean, maybe it's just him.
00:28:18.853 --> 00:28:19.634
You know what I'm saying?
00:28:19.653 --> 00:28:22.097
He's kind of using his hillbilliness to make himself a living.
00:28:22.198 --> 00:28:23.720
But is he a reservoir?
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:24.381
Yeah, he's absolutely.
00:28:24.401 --> 00:28:27.184
I think we put him in the racial stereotypes one as well.
00:28:27.685 --> 00:28:28.165
Oh, did you?
00:28:28.346 --> 00:28:29.067
Yeah, I believe he did.
00:28:30.028 --> 00:28:31.550
Because a lot of these characters will
00:28:31.951 --> 00:28:32.311
cross over.
00:28:32.653 --> 00:28:33.693
And Ray kind of...
00:28:34.018 --> 00:28:39.002
Kind of alluding to that, so you have like this scorecard, I guess.
00:28:39.143 --> 00:28:40.023
I love that.
00:28:40.104 --> 00:28:41.625
A pie chart, which is really interesting.
00:28:42.046 --> 00:28:58.201
But how did you come up or what was your thought process in creating these categories for these wrestlers and then ranking or putting them out of 100% of their profile, 20% is this?
00:28:58.741 --> 00:29:02.465
And kind of give us the mindset that you had going into that.
00:29:02.817 --> 00:29:03.660
Yeah, absolutely.
00:29:03.861 --> 00:29:07.811
When I was creating the book, I knew I wanted it to be a visual experience as well.
00:29:07.893 --> 00:29:10.701
I knew it wasn't something that I wanted people just to put on audio.
00:29:11.142 --> 00:29:12.767
I wanted people to have graphs.
00:29:12.826 --> 00:29:13.469
I wanted charts.
00:29:13.528 --> 00:29:13.809
I wanted...
00:29:14.082 --> 00:29:14.563
I wanted tables.
00:29:14.603 --> 00:29:15.565
I wanted illustrations.
00:29:15.744 --> 00:29:16.005
Yeah.
00:29:16.226 --> 00:29:17.508
I wanted all that stuff.
00:29:17.528 --> 00:29:20.393
So I knew I had to make some charts for it.
00:29:20.534 --> 00:29:26.585
And then when I was doing the gimmicks chapter, I was thinking like, well, these modern, like, like Hillbilly Jim's a great example.
00:29:26.724 --> 00:29:29.609
He is a bit of a rich stereotype, but he's also a bit of a profession.
00:29:29.951 --> 00:29:32.434
And you might be able to put him in a few other categories as well.
00:29:32.976 --> 00:29:49.238
So I was thinking, well, Let's take some of 30 of the most iconic wrestlers, guys you expect from like John Cena to Roman Reigns to Bruno San Martino, Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, 30 of the real greats, and we're going to break down their careers in a number of ways.
00:29:49.878 --> 00:29:56.002
One, we're going to break it down is we're going to break down their essential gimmick, and what percentage they are of using the classic gimmicks to each one.
00:29:56.123 --> 00:29:58.468
And how did you come up with those percentages?
00:29:58.508 --> 00:30:02.294
Did you put it all on a spreadsheet and come up with some crazy formula?
00:30:02.355 --> 00:30:03.517
Did you use ChatGPT
00:30:03.537 --> 00:30:06.101
like David does?
00:30:06.121 --> 00:30:08.285
No, no artificial intelligence was used.
00:30:08.404 --> 00:30:09.406
And
00:30:09.487 --> 00:30:14.556
that's why I think, like this, when I was flipping through that...
00:30:16.162 --> 00:30:18.243
Guys are all about lists, I think.
00:30:18.503 --> 00:30:19.484
Lists, rankings.
00:30:19.585 --> 00:30:21.666
Like, we do that shit just for fun.
00:30:21.707 --> 00:30:27.011
And the fact that you went through it, man, that to me, I was like, man, this guy knows what he's doing.
00:30:27.051 --> 00:30:28.032
Like, I love that.
00:30:28.153 --> 00:30:30.935
Just take, for example, we're just going to read The Undertaker, right?
00:30:31.455 --> 00:30:33.478
You have 40% monster.
00:30:33.878 --> 00:30:34.499
Is that what it is?
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.181
He's definitely a monster character.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.323
I mean, he's a big, fatty, goth.
00:30:38.843 --> 00:30:40.984
Yeah, he fits all the criteria for being a monster gimmick.
00:30:41.025 --> 00:30:42.807
Yeah, 25% psychopath.
00:30:42.826 --> 00:30:45.609
20% blue-collar tough.
00:30:45.890 --> 00:30:49.057
Right, he had his whole biker gimmick thing.
00:30:49.558 --> 00:30:51.924
He was kind of a psychopath when he was leading the ministry.
00:30:52.066 --> 00:30:54.932
He almost transformed his character into like a cult leader.
00:30:55.113 --> 00:30:58.260
Yeah, and then what is it, 5% Profession?
00:30:58.882 --> 00:31:00.523
Because at the end of the
00:31:00.544 --> 00:31:01.526
day, an Undertaker is...
00:31:01.546 --> 00:31:02.346
It's a profession.
00:31:02.807 --> 00:31:03.147
It's a profession.
00:31:03.167 --> 00:31:03.888
Yes, it is.
00:31:03.909 --> 00:31:05.211
So shouldn't it be more than five?
00:31:05.451 --> 00:31:06.012
No, because
00:31:06.313 --> 00:31:07.193
he doesn't lean on it
00:31:07.213 --> 00:31:07.315
a lot.
00:31:07.355 --> 00:31:08.155
Yeah, that's true.
00:31:08.777 --> 00:31:09.917
He comes out of a casket.
00:31:09.958 --> 00:31:09.999
He
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:13.844
has evolved so much beyond what the simple basics
00:31:13.864 --> 00:31:13.903
is.
00:31:13.983 --> 00:31:18.691
And that music, I mean, when he comes on, you remember when he would just pop up behind people?
00:31:18.711 --> 00:31:19.192
Oh, yeah.
00:31:19.311 --> 00:31:20.314
Like, that is just...
00:31:20.577 --> 00:31:21.298
That's iconic.
00:31:21.318 --> 00:31:23.643
We use iconic all the time, but that is iconic.
00:31:23.702 --> 00:31:27.367
Some of his entrances, especially at the WrestleMania, were probably the best ever.
00:31:27.387 --> 00:31:29.711
You could just sit there and just watch the entrance and not even watch the match.
00:31:30.192 --> 00:31:30.633
That was great.
00:31:30.952 --> 00:31:32.715
And I think you have 10% comic book.
00:31:34.258 --> 00:31:36.701
Yeah, because he's got some supernatural powers.
00:31:36.922 --> 00:31:38.664
He can make the lightning appear.
00:31:38.704 --> 00:31:39.846
He can make the lights go off.
00:31:40.146 --> 00:31:42.509
So he can do kind of extra-worldly things.
00:31:42.790 --> 00:31:44.113
And
00:31:44.153 --> 00:31:50.321
I think this is what probably took your book to another level for me.
00:31:50.594 --> 00:31:53.136
Because you give me a chart, I'm all about it.
00:31:53.257 --> 00:31:55.220
I mean, the NFL draft is coming up.
00:31:55.579 --> 00:31:56.662
I do a draft board.
00:31:56.781 --> 00:31:58.663
I, you know, research all that stuff.
00:31:58.744 --> 00:32:01.667
And so they give you this for every athlete.
00:32:01.688 --> 00:32:09.258
So if you're, if you're, if you like football and yeah, if you like, yeah, if you're a data driven person, this is perfect.
00:32:09.357 --> 00:32:12.461
And so when, for me, I was like, this is greatness.
00:32:12.843 --> 00:32:18.289
And like my little brother is a big wrestling fan and we haven't gotten to that because I gave him the book.
00:32:18.690 --> 00:32:22.875
that I got from you and also gave it to my sister because she's a big wrestling fan.
00:32:23.917 --> 00:32:30.027
And I need to call them and just kind of go through it because this is a good topic to discuss.
00:32:30.086 --> 00:32:31.788
I mean, this is something that you can argue about.
00:32:31.849 --> 00:32:31.990
Well,
00:32:32.049 --> 00:32:47.973
and that was going to be my question to you is since writing this book and it getting into people's hands and some being fanatics, have some challenged you on some of these percentages or kind of brought up like, hey, I think you really...
00:32:48.513 --> 00:32:52.840
Miss this, or I think you shorted him.
00:32:53.603 --> 00:32:59.252
No, I've talked to several podcasters that are strictly professional wrestlers and stuff like that.
00:32:59.894 --> 00:33:03.179
People have different opinions as far as what is there.
00:33:03.239 --> 00:33:06.285
So it's an inexact science because the world of wrestling is kind of...
00:33:07.362 --> 00:33:14.587
One of the other graphs we have on that math and science of a wrestler chapter is we're computing what we call golden time.
00:33:15.909 --> 00:33:17.451
Let me break it down real quick.
00:33:17.490 --> 00:33:20.573
We're saying, how long was wrestler X a champion?
00:33:20.953 --> 00:33:22.595
How long was he an active wrestler?
00:33:23.036 --> 00:33:26.137
By active wrestler, I mean, say he had a 10-year career.
00:33:26.578 --> 00:33:34.125
During that 10-year career, he may have taken off six months on his second year for a vacation, however much for injury.
00:33:34.605 --> 00:34:11.126
We computed to the time where he's just, and we subtracted all that off time and just figuring out how much is he actually an active character on wrestling how much is he actively like an active wrestler and then from there we figured well how much a percentage of that was he a heavyweight champion the major gold champion how much of how much of a percentage of his career did he spend as a middle level champion the intercontinental US title mid-level titles how many did he spend as a third tier champion if at all you know your third belts your TV titles things like that and then how much did he spend as a tag champion and And how much time did he spend out of his career holding the gold at all?
00:34:11.768 --> 00:34:15.653
So that took a lot of equations and math and a lot of research.
00:34:15.673 --> 00:34:16.135
And it was.
00:34:16.195 --> 00:34:17.356
And we had to cross-check things.
00:34:17.436 --> 00:34:19.119
And there's websites that you can use.
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:20.101
And there's videotapes.
00:34:20.121 --> 00:34:21.523
And there's all these things that you can cross-check.
00:34:21.844 --> 00:34:27.012
But even then, like, OK, Ric Flair is the most easiest example.
00:34:27.650 --> 00:34:31.155
The WWE says he's a 16-time world champion.
00:34:31.175 --> 00:34:31.675
Some people
00:34:31.715 --> 00:34:33.358
say he's a 23-time world champion.
00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:39.849
I think in the book we put him down like a 21, because there's an inexact science to what counted as a title.
00:34:40.449 --> 00:34:41.871
Was that even a major title?
00:34:42.333 --> 00:34:42.954
And all that stuff.
00:34:42.974 --> 00:34:46.018
So sure, there's room for arguments in there, which I think is part of the fun for fans.
00:34:46.378 --> 00:34:49.623
Take a look at it, and by no means am I saying do not disagree with it.
00:34:49.943 --> 00:34:53.409
Go ahead, disagree with it and argue and be like, well, I think you got it wrong on this part.
00:34:53.449 --> 00:34:55.813
Well, because you should have counted that belt for Ric Flair.
00:34:56.481 --> 00:34:57.443
I get it.
00:34:57.724 --> 00:34:58.505
He's an exact.
00:34:58.764 --> 00:35:02.690
He's making that argument right now too, because Roman Reigns is, or no, I'm sorry.
00:35:02.831 --> 00:35:06.797
John Cena is possibly going to win his 17th championship.
00:35:06.878 --> 00:35:10.603
And they're saying WWE is saying, Oh, he's in a past flair.
00:35:11.043 --> 00:35:13.708
And flair is like, nah, he's, he's nowhere near.
00:35:14.528 --> 00:35:15.271
But what
00:35:15.311 --> 00:35:16.192
else would he say though?
00:35:18.255 --> 00:35:18.556
Yeah.
00:35:18.615 --> 00:35:18.916
Yeah.
00:35:19.336 --> 00:35:20.057
Some of those titles.
00:35:20.514 --> 00:35:23.137
exchanges and there's some title exchanges that were unauthorized
00:35:23.478 --> 00:35:28.306
well because there was a fight there you know between all of them right between the two the
00:35:28.445 --> 00:35:45.264
wrestlers just did a title exchange one time I think the wrestlers just did a title exchange on their own when they were overseas to help the local promotions over there sell tickets and all that stuff but that wasn't Like authorized by the NWA, the National Wrestling Alliance, like their corporate overseers.
00:35:45.284 --> 00:35:50.954
They used to lend talent out to these Japanese promoters, but they would still have to basically answer to their bosses back at home.
00:35:51.335 --> 00:35:54.701
But their bosses back at home didn't authorize that, so they didn't recognize that.
00:35:55.121 --> 00:35:56.963
So sometimes they don't recognize that.
00:35:57.023 --> 00:35:58.626
Title reign is a legit title reign.
00:35:59.188 --> 00:36:00.088
There's things like that.
00:36:00.489 --> 00:36:05.438
We break down Booker T's one of the guys, and sometimes he won the title.
00:36:05.826 --> 00:36:09.851
Because WCW back in the day used to have their tapings on TV.
00:36:10.572 --> 00:36:18.525
Well, sometimes he would be a tag team champion in a negative amount of days because they would film it in reverse order or something like that, which didn't make any logical sense.
00:36:18.565 --> 00:36:20.327
So we had to put some parameters on there.
00:36:20.608 --> 00:36:21.648
That's what we do in the chapter.
00:36:21.688 --> 00:36:27.958
We introduce all the parameters we're putting and kind of explain to people, like, here's why we're counting, here's what we're not counting, things like that.
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.322
So, I mean, it's all up for discussion.
00:36:30.382 --> 00:36:31.384
It's all inexact.
00:36:31.443 --> 00:36:32.164
But I think we tried to...
00:36:32.204 --> 00:36:33.586
A lot of research was done.
00:36:33.626 --> 00:36:34.768
We double-checked everything.
00:36:35.128 --> 00:36:35.369
So I think...
00:36:35.746 --> 00:36:36.887
Who
00:36:37.248 --> 00:36:41.891
is it in the background that's deciding who's going to win that night?
00:36:42.773 --> 00:36:43.333
The promoter.
00:36:44.074 --> 00:36:44.335
Yeah.
00:36:44.635 --> 00:36:46.677
Whoever the promoter is, the head guy.
00:36:47.358 --> 00:36:50.360
And so like these major championships.
00:36:51.481 --> 00:36:53.764
Yeah, the promoter slash booker, whoever's in charge.
00:36:53.784 --> 00:36:57.047
Yeah, because the booker is more the person who puts the thing together.
00:36:57.148 --> 00:36:59.050
But the promoter is like, I want this guy to win.
00:36:59.090 --> 00:37:01.032
This is who we're going to push.
00:37:01.132 --> 00:37:02.494
And then the booker figures out.
00:37:02.626 --> 00:37:04.309
The booker figures out a way to do it.
00:37:04.851 --> 00:37:06.775
Yeah, it could definitely go down that way.
00:37:06.815 --> 00:37:10.061
The booker's just, here's the big picture, and then the booker's like, okay, here's how we get there.
00:37:10.722 --> 00:37:13.208
Sometimes the promoter is the booker, like Tony Khan.
00:37:13.588 --> 00:37:17.978
He is everything and anything to that company, and he decides everything and how it's going to
00:37:17.998 --> 00:37:18.798
happen.
00:37:18.820 --> 00:37:23.409
Yeah, I mean, there's different ways you could do it, but basically whoever's the guy in charge is going to decide who's going to, you know.
00:37:24.193 --> 00:37:29.199
Who did you have helping you kind of sort through all the data, sort through all the titles?
00:37:29.501 --> 00:37:31.242
Or was it just you doing everything?
00:37:31.402 --> 00:37:32.443
Just me, myself, and I.
00:37:32.605 --> 00:37:34.427
That's why the book took a long process.
00:37:34.447 --> 00:37:37.349
You know, I started during COVID and it didn't come out until recently.
00:37:37.431 --> 00:37:40.494
I mean, we're talking about like four years of off and on working.
00:37:41.235 --> 00:37:43.398
I would just pick it up and go back to it every now and again.
00:37:43.418 --> 00:37:43.898
That's impressive.
00:37:44.398 --> 00:37:44.659
Yeah.
00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:48.905
And the graphs one, I'm very proud of that chapter because it did take a lot of time.
00:37:49.264 --> 00:37:52.769
No, that's probably one of my favorite things about the book is...
00:37:53.282 --> 00:37:54.324
pie charts.
00:37:56.728 --> 00:37:58.932
Because it's easy, it's quick, you can look at it.
00:37:59.253 --> 00:38:03.501
I mean, like I said, guys argue about everything and anything.
00:38:03.661 --> 00:38:12.592
Actually, the argument that you and I got into or that at David's house was that can Snoop beat Can you beat Snoop in a boxing
00:38:12.932 --> 00:38:13.534
match?
00:38:13.554 --> 00:38:16.659
I think we were talking about how tough is Snoop.
00:38:16.998 --> 00:38:17.719
I still stand by it.
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:18.981
You underestimate Snoop Dogg.
00:38:19.342 --> 00:38:19.983
He's a DOJ
00:38:20.164 --> 00:38:20.543
man.
00:38:20.864 --> 00:38:22.126
He weighs 100 pounds, dog.
00:38:22.387 --> 00:38:23.427
He dropped the elbow
00:38:23.447 --> 00:38:23.527
on.
00:38:24.369 --> 00:38:24.630
Yeah.
00:38:24.909 --> 00:38:25.050
He's
00:38:25.070 --> 00:38:26.793
got a real bony elbow, man.
00:38:26.952 --> 00:38:29.697
That's straight up bone going
00:38:29.757 --> 00:38:30.097
into that.
00:38:30.402 --> 00:38:31.222
Terrible argument.
00:38:31.262 --> 00:38:31.824
Shane McMahon
00:38:31.884 --> 00:38:32.585
blew his quads.
00:38:33.144 --> 00:38:35.869
I think it was The Miz that he dropped the elbow on, maybe.
00:38:35.969 --> 00:38:43.038
Yeah, whoever Shane McMahon was fighting, he was in the ring and he tries to jump over a guy and he blows out both his quads.
00:38:43.197 --> 00:38:45.481
Well, you remember in AEW when he did a frog splash?
00:38:45.561 --> 00:38:46.021
That's right.
00:38:46.101 --> 00:38:48.985
It was like the worst looking frog splash ever.
00:38:49.806 --> 00:38:50.286
He came down.
00:38:50.306 --> 00:38:53.931
He like squatted way down on the turnbuckle and then jumped.
00:38:54.192 --> 00:38:55.353
Snoop definitely was not helping
00:38:55.373 --> 00:38:56.074
my argument on
00:38:56.134 --> 00:38:56.233
his
00:38:56.835 --> 00:38:57.175
toughness.
00:38:57.456 --> 00:38:58.677
That was a terrible argument.
00:38:59.137 --> 00:39:03.483
Um, so let's talk about, uh, you have, uh, MT, you had mentioned that.
00:39:03.943 --> 00:39:06.206
Oh, the chapter on the Kaufman's.
00:39:07.007 --> 00:39:09.210
I think, uh, I think that's a great chapter.
00:39:09.271 --> 00:39:14.657
Like, cause again, this is, it breeds like discussion and arguments and what you think.
00:39:14.697 --> 00:39:22.548
So I wanted to read a couple of the Kaufman's and then just get the other guys in the room and see what, what they, uh, they thought of that.
00:39:22.768 --> 00:39:23.730
Yeah, absolutely.
00:39:24.291 --> 00:39:26.434
So, um, all right, so let's see.
00:39:26.614 --> 00:39:28.519
Um, Let's try this one.
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:30.601
So outstanding fight in a motion picture.
00:39:31.302 --> 00:39:34.827
So we have Hulk Hogan versus Sylvester Stallone in Rocky III.
00:39:35.327 --> 00:39:38.913
John Cena versus Vin Diesel in Fast 9.
00:39:40.134 --> 00:39:43.297
Dwayne Johnson versus the Rebels in the Rundown.
00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:50.467
Dave Bautista versus Chung Ting Chi in Master Z Ip Man.
00:39:50.567 --> 00:39:51.949
I really didn't see that one.
00:39:51.969 --> 00:39:52.409
Good job there.
00:39:52.509 --> 00:39:53.911
Is that good?
00:39:53.971 --> 00:39:55.012
My pronunciation is flawed.
00:39:55.032 --> 00:39:55.092
The
00:39:55.112 --> 00:39:56.094
fight scenes were really great.
00:39:56.802 --> 00:40:00.164
Roddy Piper versus Keith David in They Live.
00:40:00.626 --> 00:40:02.867
This is the fight scene featuring a wrestler.
00:40:03.047 --> 00:40:04.929
Yeah, this is the fight scene featuring a wrestler.
00:40:04.949 --> 00:40:06.311
Okay, so let me ask the other guy.
00:40:06.391 --> 00:40:08.072
Jaime, do you remember any of these movies?
00:40:08.092 --> 00:40:10.856
And what's your vote?
00:40:12.056 --> 00:40:14.480
So, yes, I remember They Live.
00:40:14.539 --> 00:40:15.199
I thought that was...
00:40:15.221 --> 00:40:23.168
I mean, when that movie came out, well, at the time, you know, at that age, I think I was a pretty big wrestling fan.
00:40:23.789 --> 00:40:24.489
So anytime...
00:40:24.802 --> 00:40:25.643
Hulk Hogan would come out.
00:40:25.682 --> 00:40:26.804
You're like, hey, that's Hulk Hogan.
00:40:28.206 --> 00:40:31.309
That They Live movie was really interesting.
00:40:32.751 --> 00:40:34.092
But I don't remember much of it.
00:40:34.112 --> 00:40:34.132
I
00:40:35.233 --> 00:40:37.976
don't think I've ever seen that movie, but I really want to see it.
00:40:38.177 --> 00:40:39.898
The John Cena versus Vin Diesel.
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:42.081
John Cena is just a huge person.
00:40:42.782 --> 00:40:45.686
You know what I'm saying?
00:40:46.746 --> 00:40:53.054
Just seeing two big-ass people go against each other is pretty cool to see.
00:40:54.050 --> 00:41:00.840
But if I'm going to say the most outstanding, you know, I was born in the 70s.
00:41:01.121 --> 00:41:02.583
So it's got to be Hulk Hogan for me
00:41:02.643 --> 00:41:04.106
just because it's, I mean, just
00:41:05.688 --> 00:41:06.871
how massive he was.
00:41:07.132 --> 00:41:08.813
And Stallone's not that big.
00:41:08.875 --> 00:41:11.699
So when he just picks him up and throws.
00:41:13.682 --> 00:41:13.983
Yeah.
00:41:16.827 --> 00:41:19.050
The Yip Man, I guess.
00:41:19.271 --> 00:41:20.032
Oh, yeah.
00:41:20.052 --> 00:41:20.434
Yeah.
00:41:20.494 --> 00:41:20.574
Yeah.
00:41:20.706 --> 00:41:25.251
I love those movies, but I mean, I don't think that was that memorable for me.
00:41:27.492 --> 00:41:30.496
I just, I love classic movies, so it has to be Rocky.
00:41:31.077 --> 00:41:34.420
All right, David, have you seen any of these or heard of any of these
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:34.559
movies?
00:41:34.699 --> 00:41:42.088
I definitely watched the Rocky one, and to me, the one that stands out top of mine is that Rocky, the Rocky, what, four?
00:41:42.347 --> 00:41:43.128
Was it Rocky?
00:41:43.248 --> 00:41:43.889
No, not Rocky IV.
00:41:43.929 --> 00:41:45.050
It was Rocky II,
00:41:45.490 --> 00:41:45.630
wasn't
00:41:45.650 --> 00:41:45.690
it?
00:41:46.211 --> 00:41:47.012
Yeah, I think it was II.
00:41:47.994 --> 00:41:48.253
No, it was III.
00:41:48.641 --> 00:41:49.003
Oh,
00:41:49.023 --> 00:41:49.123
okay.
00:41:49.163 --> 00:41:49.523
It was three?
00:41:50.003 --> 00:41:50.885
It was Rocky III.
00:41:50.905 --> 00:41:52.108
When he was fighting Mr.
00:41:52.168 --> 00:41:52.628
T, right?
00:41:52.909 --> 00:41:53.090
Yeah.
00:41:53.250 --> 00:41:53.971
Yeah.
00:41:54.110 --> 00:41:55.112
In the pre-fight.
00:41:55.132 --> 00:41:55.853
Hulk Hogan.
00:41:55.875 --> 00:41:56.976
Hulk Hogan was in the same movie.
00:41:56.996 --> 00:41:58.378
That's why they met each other.
00:41:58.398 --> 00:41:58.478
Yeah.
00:41:59.900 --> 00:42:01.063
Well, you're all wrong.
00:42:01.503 --> 00:42:05.231
It's Dwayne The Rock Johnson versus the Rebels in the rundown.
00:42:05.331 --> 00:42:06.753
And I know...
00:42:06.773 --> 00:42:06.974
I'm a huge...
00:42:06.994 --> 00:42:07.434
I know...
00:42:08.036 --> 00:42:10.960
I'm a huge rock mark.
00:42:10.981 --> 00:42:11.061
Yeah.
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:11.521
Like...
00:42:11.842 --> 00:42:17.106
In wrestling terms, I'm a mark for The Rock, for Dwayne Johnson, whatever.
00:42:17.166 --> 00:42:19.969
Anything that he does, any movie he's in, it's pretty fucking cool.
00:42:21.411 --> 00:42:25.335
But that was his first entrance into action movies.
00:42:26.036 --> 00:42:30.141
Besides, yeah, he had already done The Mummy, I think, and he had maybe done something else.
00:42:30.621 --> 00:42:35.326
But the thing about that I remember about that movie is that it was a handoff.
00:42:36.067 --> 00:42:39.090
Because at the beginning of the movie, The Rock is going into a club...
00:42:39.842 --> 00:42:45.514
And he passes Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Arnold tells him, have fun in there.
00:42:46.476 --> 00:42:49.782
Like, passing the torch, like, you're the new action star.
00:42:49.802 --> 00:42:51.045
It's one of the better rock movies.
00:42:51.326 --> 00:42:51.626
It is.
00:42:51.666 --> 00:42:52.427
It really is.
00:42:52.447 --> 00:42:53.168
It really is.
00:42:53.248 --> 00:42:55.193
And the guy that he's in there with, what's his name?
00:42:55.842 --> 00:42:56.943
Ryan Austin Green?
00:42:57.003 --> 00:42:58.085
No, that's not it.
00:42:58.346 --> 00:42:59.387
No, it's not David Silver.
00:42:59.768 --> 00:43:00.469
Sean William Scott?
00:43:00.929 --> 00:43:02.713
I knew it was a three-name.
00:43:02.813 --> 00:43:03.074
Yeah,
00:43:03.134 --> 00:43:03.614
Stifler.
00:43:04.036 --> 00:43:04.976
Yeah, Sean William Scott.
00:43:05.378 --> 00:43:07.101
You know, I love that fight scene.
00:43:07.121 --> 00:43:11.106
When I was doing that chapter, I've seen all the movies before.
00:43:11.146 --> 00:43:12.809
I would went back and watch them all again.
00:43:12.829 --> 00:43:18.639
And then I would even go back and just go on YouTube and just watch the fight scene to make sure.
00:43:18.659 --> 00:43:22.025
I mean, that rock fight scene...
00:43:22.530 --> 00:43:25.554
One, I don't even know if it was as good as the one with the football players at the beginning.
00:43:25.614 --> 00:43:28.038
The one with the football players at the beginning was pretty fantastic.
00:43:28.077 --> 00:43:29.099
Why didn't you choose that one then?
00:43:29.440 --> 00:43:35.829
Well, because I think this one was the better one, but it was also kind of super unrealistic.
00:43:36.208 --> 00:43:36.570
It had like...
00:43:37.110 --> 00:43:39.673
Rock was just basically doing flying kicks all over.
00:43:39.693 --> 00:43:40.335
I mean, it was...
00:43:40.795 --> 00:43:42.597
It defied physics and gravity.
00:43:42.617 --> 00:43:44.882
It's like, okay, that's not humanly possible.
00:43:44.961 --> 00:43:46.603
Yeah, that was Rock with hair, right?
00:43:46.903 --> 00:43:47.746
Yeah.
00:43:47.766 --> 00:43:48.306
It was really...
00:43:49.568 --> 00:43:50.009
It was, yeah.
00:43:50.570 --> 00:43:50.710
And...
00:43:51.074 --> 00:43:53.016
We'll give a spoiler.
00:43:53.197 --> 00:43:58.826
I gave the award to John Carpenter's classic sci-fi, They Live, with Rowdy Rod Piper.
00:43:59.326 --> 00:44:13.447
If you go back and look at the fight on YouTube, five, seven minutes, whatever it is, it's very gritty, very realistic, and the incorporation of wrestling moves just had to be acknowledged.
00:44:13.606 --> 00:44:18.014
They really used all these wrestling moves and made it look like a legitimate fight.
00:44:18.146 --> 00:44:18.326
I
00:44:18.385 --> 00:44:19.327
think we watched it at the movies.
00:44:19.347 --> 00:44:19.588
Somebody's
00:44:19.628 --> 00:44:20.789
Gonna Die Fight.
00:44:20.929 --> 00:44:22.552
Wasn't that like 1985
00:44:22.632 --> 00:44:23.253
or something like that?
00:44:23.414 --> 00:44:24.556
It was in the 80s.
00:44:24.815 --> 00:44:26.958
Yeah, I think I went to the movies to watch it.
00:44:26.980 --> 00:44:27.099
I
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:27.559
want
00:44:27.820 --> 00:44:28.061
to say like
00:44:28.081 --> 00:44:28.240
late 80s.
00:44:28.260 --> 00:44:33.048
Because Roddy Piper's in his classic white t-shirt with the print on it and then that kilt.
00:44:33.610 --> 00:44:34.530
Yeah, I think it was 88.
00:44:35.652 --> 00:44:36.934
Not in the movie.
00:44:36.994 --> 00:44:37.936
Not in the movie.
00:44:37.956 --> 00:44:38.757
Oh, okay.
00:44:38.818 --> 00:44:39.057
There was
00:44:39.097 --> 00:44:41.481
a movie or a show where he's wearing his...
00:44:41.826 --> 00:44:43.307
His outfit that he wears for wrestling.
00:44:43.389 --> 00:44:44.510
Yeah, he probably came on Tool Time
00:44:45.411 --> 00:44:45.652
or something.
00:44:45.672 --> 00:44:45.773
Right.
00:44:45.853 --> 00:44:46.894
I mean, Rod, he's done a whole bunch of
00:44:46.974 --> 00:44:48.697
appearances on TV.
00:44:48.757 --> 00:44:49.798
He's got to get paid, dog.
00:44:49.818 --> 00:44:50.760
He's got to get that check.
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:51.081
Nothing
00:44:51.101 --> 00:44:51.762
wrong with those guys' pay.
00:44:51.862 --> 00:44:53.885
I say this was his best work on film.
00:44:54.146 --> 00:44:55.869
I got to check it out, yeah.
00:44:55.889 --> 00:44:56.891
Have you not seen that?
00:44:56.951 --> 00:44:58.293
I've never seen it.
00:44:58.494 --> 00:44:58.574
Yeah.
00:44:58.594 --> 00:44:59.376
I've seen clips of it.
00:44:59.496 --> 00:45:00.818
Man, it's really good.
00:45:00.918 --> 00:45:03.943
I think I've only watched it like two or three times.
00:45:03.963 --> 00:45:05.365
I think we went to the movies to watch it.
00:45:05.730 --> 00:45:07.713
And I've seen it one other time and it's been a while.
00:45:07.934 --> 00:45:08.815
I have the Blu-ray.
00:45:08.954 --> 00:45:09.255
I can't.
00:45:10.998 --> 00:45:12.000
It's part of my research.
00:45:12.019 --> 00:45:12.581
I had orange.
00:45:13.161 --> 00:45:15.166
It's like, why are we watching all these movies or feature wrestlers?
00:45:15.226 --> 00:45:15.987
Like I got to do
00:45:16.047 --> 00:45:18.110
research.
00:45:18.811 --> 00:45:19.333
That's awesome.
00:45:19.472 --> 00:45:24.902
I love that when they incorporate like the wrestlers moveset into the movie that they're in.
00:45:25.503 --> 00:45:25.583
Yeah.
00:45:25.603 --> 00:45:30.170
And the one I remember also is Sasha Banks in the Mandalorian.
00:45:30.831 --> 00:45:35.333
She's in the Mandalorian and she's, I don't remember what she gave the other Mandalorian.
00:45:36.375 --> 00:45:37.016
The
00:45:37.056 --> 00:45:37.235
bank
00:45:37.255 --> 00:45:37.815
statement or whatever.
00:45:37.836 --> 00:45:38.577
The bank statement.
00:45:38.597 --> 00:45:38.838
The crack
00:45:38.858 --> 00:45:39.739
back or something.
00:45:39.759 --> 00:45:40.018
What's
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:44.284
the one where she shoots off the top of the turnbuckle and gives him both knees?
00:45:44.423 --> 00:45:46.226
Yeah, Meteora.
00:45:46.266 --> 00:45:47.869
Yeah, the Meteora or something like that.
00:45:47.929 --> 00:45:49.831
So that's always fun when you see those things.
00:45:49.871 --> 00:45:54.056
They use their move set like, oh, that's a move that he uses in the ring and it's in a movie.
00:45:55.097 --> 00:46:02.085
Now, Ray, kind of piggybacking off of females, you do write a full chapter on females in wrestling.
00:46:02.434 --> 00:46:08.902
provide a little bit of context of how women became part of the show.
00:46:12.885 --> 00:46:13.706
Thank you for listening.
00:46:14.288 --> 00:46:19.773
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00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:29.485
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