SuperHanniFiles

Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:00
I'm Marie Vigouroux,



Jeremy Greer:
00:00:01
I'm Jeremy Greer,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:03
and this is Rude Eats, a delicious podcast



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:05
where we sink our teeth into every episode of the show



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:08
Jake Lionheart (intro music): I want Will Graham, I really do



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:08
Hannibal.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:16
and I think that we could have some fun. Then you can do



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:20
anything you like. I might even go and help you catch the



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:24
Shrike. I want Will Graham, I want that man for every meal and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:29
on demand. His mind shines and his body's cut. I know that he



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:34
works for the FBI, but what other man has pure empathy and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:39
the ability to see my mind. Jack. What other thing have I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:44
ever asked you for besides never looking into my pantry? And I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:50
won't get that. Damn. I want Will Graham. I want him so and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:00:58
he really doesn't need to know what's in my meals or on my



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:02
mind. I just want Will Graham to be mine. I want him, and I want



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:08
him now. I said before, I don't care how. I'll give him tests.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:13
He'll draw a clock, and then his dark desires I will unlock.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:17
We'll be together, Willll and me. We'll throw some brand in



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:20
the parties. We'll cut the flesh. We'll cook the meat.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:23
He'll eat the food just like me. Give me goddamn Will Graham.



Jeremy Greer:
00:01:34
Well, well, well, Mary, as we get into deeper to



Jeremy Greer:
00:01:40
season one. I can't tell you how excited I am to hear your



Jeremy Greer:
00:01:44
reactions to this show, specifically this episode where



Jeremy Greer:
00:01:48
some things are revealed that you have kind of been guessing



Jeremy Greer:
00:01:51
that for quite some time.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:53
Yeah. I mean, listen, I think the first time



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:55
that I watched this episode, usually I'm like, live tweeting



Marie Vigouroux:
00:01:58
to you, right, like when I watched them, and this time, I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:00
didn't, and I just, I watched it, I like, closed my computer,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:06
and I just, I just went to bed, and I was like, that's enough. I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:09
need. I think I'm good. That's enough.



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:13
There's a, there's a meme that goes around Twitter



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:15
from a guy named Austin Walker, where he tweeted out, have you



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:18
ever seen a take so bad? It just makes you immediately want to go



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:21
to sleep. And have you ever seen a Hannibal episode that had so



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:25
much that just makes you immediately want to go to sleep?



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:28
It's very much, so much. It's I'm so like, you've been



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:32
guessing at some of the stuff that's revealed here for a



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:35
while. And I'm curious, does it feel good to be right?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:40
No, Jeremy, it feels awful. I didn't want to be



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:43
right about any of this.



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:46
Why don't you tell everybody what episode we're



Jeremy Greer:
00:02:47
covering, and then we'll get into it.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:50
All right. Today we are covering Hannibal,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:52
season one, episode nine, Trou Normand, a totem pole of human



Marie Vigouroux:
00:02:56
bodies ranging from freshly killed to decades old, are found



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:00
on a beach, and while Graham is investigating the crime scene,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:03
he suddenly finds finds himself in lecters office, three and a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:07
half hours away, with no recollection of how he got



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:09
there. That was a very long sentence. My English teacher



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:12
would have been like, run on, run on. Lecter theorizes that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:15
Graham's mind is trying to escape from having to



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:18
investigate such brutal murders. This episode was directed by



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:22
Guillermo Navarro, written by Steve Lightfoot, and it



Marie Vigouroux:
00:03:26
originally aired on May 23 2013



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:29
Absolutely, the episode description doesn't does



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:32
a, I think, a disservice to this episode, which is packed full of



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:36
character revelations and just just just a lot of stuff to get



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:40
into. And it's interesting. Rewatching Hannibal for this



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:44
podcast has been interesting. The thing that I keep taking



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:47
away from it is just how, like, unimportant the monster of the



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:52
week kind of killer stuff is, and the grand scheme of things



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:54
like how they just really use it as, like a bed to, like, grow



Jeremy Greer:
00:03:57
this relationship between all of these different characters. But



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:00
at the same time, if I think, if you asked people, this episode



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:04
specifically, with this enormous totem pole of human bodies that



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:07
we're going to see at the very beginning is one of the most



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:09
memorable things from the show. So like, when you talk to people



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:12
like, they'll tell you about the kills because they're like, so



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:15
over the top and crazy. But like, if you really dig into the



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:17
episodes from a critical perspective, like you and I are



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:19
doing, they don't matter at all.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:22
None of that matters. I, like, have zero



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:25
notes about this.



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:27
It's so funny all of the science stuff, like, I



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:30
don't even think I wrote down how they found the killer, and



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:32
then, like, the twist with the killer thing, I just was like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:34
Yeah, sure, okay, I see what they're doing there, but



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:36
whatever, it's just so funny that none of this stuff actually



Jeremy Greer:
00:04:39
matters.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:40
Yeah, exactly. It's kind of one of those things



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:42
where I've noticed so far that the the monster of the week is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:45
kind of like, it's really created in order to, like, be a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:49
mirror to what's going on with with the characters and like, of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:52
course, a lot of those, like cases, like case by case, like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:04:57
weekly cases, procedurals are about that, but like Hannibal,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:01
particularly, like it is only made for that, you know, like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:06
it's and so I'm looking at this particular storyline with that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:11
in mind, and I'm like, okay, so what does that say about our



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:14
characters? Like, this particular situation, this



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:16
particular case, like, what does it say about Hannibal, about



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:19
Abigail, about will, about Jack, about, you know, everybody?



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:22
All of our little weirdos that show up in this



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:25
episode, including, including our fave, Freddie Lowndes, we



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:28
love Freddie.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:30
Oh, my God, anyway. Oh, that last scene.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:05:34
Okay, okay, okay.



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:38
We had some difficulty, I think, yeah,



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:41
coming up with a theme for this episode, because I did not know



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:44
what a - is it Trou Normand - am I doing it right? I did not know



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:48
what a Trou Normand was when we started, because I am not fancy



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:52
like that, and then, and you'll describe what it is here in a



Jeremy Greer:
00:05:56
second. But we it didn't really, I didn't I felt like it didn't



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:00
really fit the episode, because the episode felt real twisty,



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:02
like, it felt real like, gotcha, almost like, oh, we thought You



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:06
thought this was going to be a thing, but actually it's this.



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:08
And so I was kind of thinking like, oh, maybe there's



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:11
something weird in the way this is made. And then that didn't



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:13
work out, and then you had the suggestion of boundaries, and



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:17
that's when we kind of like seized on something. And I'll



Jeremy Greer:
00:06:21
kind of let you explain it from there.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:24
Well, yeah, I think that there's, there could



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:26
have been a lot of ways to go about this, to be honest,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:28
because I was re watching it after we set we, like, set



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:31
ourselves on boundaries. And I was like, oh yeah, we could have



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:33
done, like, depending on how you look at this episode, there's,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:36
like, a bunch of ways that you can relate it, but they're all,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:40
like, pretty thin, and it's getting harder, like, we



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:41
actually have to think. Now, I'm like, oh my god, thinking, what?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:48
Okay, so Trou Normand is the title of this episode, and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:52
traditionally un trou Normand, is simply like having a shot of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:55
Calvados, which is an apple brandy made from the region of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:06:59
Calvados in France. Actually, it's an it's an AOC. I did not



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:02
know that. I thought that that was kind of like a thing, like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:04
just a generic thing, but it's not. And so it's basically



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:09
having a shot of Calvados between dishes and a meal,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:13
because people thought that the alcohol would dilate your



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:15
stomach so that you could then eat more and ignore your hunger



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:18
cues. And it comes from a very, very old French tradition that,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:23
like people don't really use anymore of drinking three shots



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:27
during your meal called le coup d'avant, le coup du milieu, and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:31
le coup d'après, meaning literally the before shot, the



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:34
middle shot, and the after shot. And the trou Normand was that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:37
middle shot, so to speak, basically to make it so that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:41
even though you were probably not hungry anymore, you could



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:43
eat more after having it. Today, though, people will usually have



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:49
like apple sorbet with Calvados, and that's your modern trou



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:52
Normand. With that in mind, we figured that a good theme for



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:56
this episode, like you said, would be boundaries or limits,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:07:58
particularly ignoring or stretching those boundaries or



Marie Vigouroux:
00:08:03
those limits, because, like, if a trou Normand is meant to make



Marie Vigouroux:
00:08:05
you stretch your stomach and ignore the limits of your



Marie Vigouroux:
00:08:08
appetite, this episode shows a lot of ignoring boundaries and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:08:12
stretching limits.



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:13
Sure does. I was rewatching the episode last



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:17
night with Autumn, and she pointed out too a thing that



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:20
I've started doing since you and I are making notes, and we're



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:22
kind of watching each episode twice, is sharing our theme with



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:25
Autumn, so that when we rewatch it, her and I can talk about it,



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:28
Autumn becoming like the Ghost Host of this podcast. And she



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:34
pointed out that like this could also be used as almost a palate



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:37
cleanser, in some cases, just as a way for a lot of these



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:40
characters to having expressed everything that they've been



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:43
hiding, not everything, but like to get stuff off their chest and



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:46
to kind of reset the table, almost right. Like to kind of,



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:49
like lay out a different course, essentially, before the before



Jeremy Greer:
00:08:54
the next meal, before the next food begins.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:08:56
For the next dish. Yeah. Well, you know



Marie Vigouroux:
00:08:58
what's really funny is that, when I rewatched it, I was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:01
oh, man, this could be about like, things coming to light,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:04
because, like, trou is hole, right? So like things coming out



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:07
of the hole, literally, things are coming out of holes.



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:12
Yeah, people knowledge, or, you know, holes



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:14
in the ground that hide corpses or any number of things.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:18
Exactly. And so I'm like, and so I completely



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:21
agree with Autumn that, like this is definitely like a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:23
palette cleanser, like a leveling of a lot of things,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:09:26
right?



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:27
And it's exciting too. I think that there's quite



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:32
a bit we learn about the characters on here. Obviously,



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:35
like, the stuff with Abigail is finally confirmed, like, we



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:37
finally know what the secret she's been happening having



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:40
Hannibal be honest with will when the time comes. I think



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:42
it's almost shocking, because it's so casual, and seeing the



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:49
unfortunate side effect of Jack be just absolutely brutal and



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:54
crossing boundaries with Abigail, but also be correct is



Jeremy Greer:
00:09:57
just really difficult to watch, so it's gonna be fun as we go.



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:00
Through our episode to actually kind of apply these different



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:03
themes that we've been talking about to each of these



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:05
characters.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:10:07
I was so mad that Jack was right, by the way,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:10:09
like, actually mad. I was like, No! No!



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:14
Our mutual friend Mike sent me like, a three



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:16
minute voicemail the other day, and it was just like, he was



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:22
just like, I'm having a hard time remembering the time where



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:25
Jack was wrong. And I'm not sure if he was just talking about the



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:32
first season or the whole show, or I'm not sure where he is in



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:34
his rewatch but it was just fun to get that and to have you DM



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:37
me, like, a couple of weeks later, I'd be like, I hate that



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:39
Jack is right.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:10:42
Like, I really hate that he was right about



Marie Vigouroux:
00:10:44
this.



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:45
Do you have any last kind of comments on our



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:47
theme before we jump into our beat by eat section?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:10:51
Just that, I'm very excited to get to the beat



Marie Vigouroux:
00:10:53
by eat because there's so much I want to talk about.



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:55
Yeah, I'm excited to finish this podcast so that



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:57
you can DM me about episode 10, because you're gonna lose your



Jeremy Greer:
00:10:59
mind. Oh, no, let's get into it.



Jeremy Greer:
00:11:02
Going to start with Jack and will who are on a beach in West



Jeremy Greer:
00:11:43
Virginia, and they're at the scene of a grotesque display.



Jeremy Greer:
00:11:47
This is a literal totem of bodies. Our our ERT group, are



Jeremy Greer:
00:11:53
kind of making jokes about this being a puzzle, about puzzle



Jeremy Greer:
00:11:56
pieces needing corners. Corners being the heads. Beverly says,



Jeremy Greer:
00:12:00
We have too many corners, seven grades and way too many heads.



Jeremy Greer:
00:12:03
There are little, literal graves dug up around this. So whoever



Jeremy Greer:
00:12:06
did this, planted bodies came back, pulled the bodies out of



Jeremy Greer:
00:12:10
the ground, combined them with other bodies, and then built



Jeremy Greer:
00:12:12
this, like I said, grotesque, beautiful display of bodies.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:17
and Jeremy, no matter how accurate your



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:20
description is like, it is nowhere near what it actually



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:25
looks like like. There is no way that I could have imagined what



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:29
that thing really looked like if somebody had just described it



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:32
to me. So I don't know. I just needed to say that. And I also



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:37
have just a little comment that I want to get out of the way,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:39
just because that is just who I am. But, like, totem poles are



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:42
an indigenous tradition of the peoples of what we call today



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:44
the pacific northwest of the US. But as well as British Columbia



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:48
in Canada, and totem poles are basically meant to commemorate,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:51
like, stories, families and ancestors. So I, you know, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:56
this is a TV show, like their job is not to educate us. But I,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:12:59
I'm definitely so I'm definitely not wanting to kind of fall



Marie Vigouroux:
00:13:02
within, like, the white savior trope here. But I did cringe a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:13:05
little bit when I saw this, like, super meaningful



Marie Vigouroux:
00:13:08
indigenous custom being used for, like, esthetics on a murder



Marie Vigouroux:
00:13:11
show without any kind of context. So just do it that way



Marie Vigouroux:
00:13:15
you will.



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:17
Yeah, I think it's important to mention that



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:18
because it's, you know, something that's not really used



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:20
correctly in the grand scheme of things, right? They there's a



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:26
all of these corpses look like they're old, except for the one



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:28
at the very top. And Jack says something about these graves



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:32
being desecrated, and will correct some these graves



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:34
weren't desecrated. They were exposed. And it's time for Jack



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:38
to excuse me, time for will to do his thing. So the pendulum



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:40
starts. The scene rewinds. Will kind of wakes up, and he



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:44
describes himself, kind of narrates himself, as we've seen



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:47
him do, like I've planned this monument with precision,



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:50
collected all of my raw materials in advance. I did a



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:52
little did a little happy dance when he said raw materials,



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:54
having put together the raw materials thing in the last



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:56
episode between Tobias and Hannibal, collecting raw



Jeremy Greer:
00:13:59
materials for their passion. And I was like, oh, so the show just



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:02
underlined that for me. Thank you, show that helps a lot.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:14:07
It'slike they're gonna do something awful



Marie Vigouroux:
00:14:08
with that, thanks.



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:09
It's, it's becoming more difficult, I think



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:12
to watch will reenact these murders, and I think that that's



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:16
very specifically done as we watch like him, positioning the



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:19
bodies, like tying these tying these bodies up in a specific



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:22
shape with like, rope and rebar, right? And I think it's



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:26
difficult for us to watch, and it's obviously difficult for



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:29
will to do, as we're going to find out over the course of the



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:31
episode. And his last victim is tied up on the beach. He's not



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:37
dead yet. And, you know, Will says, This is my design. I



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:40
wanted him to know my design. And he walks over and he stabs



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:44
the dude in the chest. And we we see the guy die as blood pools



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:47
below. And we get this incredibly slow pan up of this



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:52
grotesque totem, starting from the bottom going all the way to



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:55
the top, where you can just see how much detail, how much care



Jeremy Greer:
00:14:58
went into this display of corpses tied up and butchered,



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:02
and it's the show is reveling in it, right? Like they obviously



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:05
spent a lot of time working on this, like they wanted to shock



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:08
and awe you. And I think we ask people about Hannibal, this is



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:12
one of the most memorable things about the show, and this is one



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:15
of the things that I keep coming back to, because it's also one



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:17
of the least important things in Hannibal, if you talk about the



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:20
show, but it's one of the most memorable things, and I find



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:23
that just fascinating.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:24
I you know how last week, we were talking about



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:27
how I would probably have, like, a grossed out reaction to



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:31
something really benign, like that. I was fine with somebody



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:35
playing a human being, but, like, I hated this totem pole so



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:40
much. I was so grossed out by it in so many ways. And I was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:45
This is it? This is my point. I hate this.



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:49
It gets worse. This is a warning. It's gonna



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:51
get worse.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:15:51
Okay, great, thank you.



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:53
Will says that this is his resume. This is my



Jeremy Greer:
00:15:56
body of work. This is my legacy. And he wakes up, and instead of



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:00
being at the beach, he's at Hannibal's office, very



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:03
confused, and Hannibal comes out to meet him, and was not



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:06
expecting will to be here. And obviously will is freaking out



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:09
right now, and Hannibal is very calm. He says that will is



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:13
disassociating, that he's hiding from the abuse that he's putting



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:17
himself through, that Jack is forcing him to look at these



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:20
bodies, forcing him to use his quote, empathy disorder, and



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:24
it's basically amounts to abuse, even if he's abusing himself.



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:27
And will rejects this. He goes, No, no, I'm saving lives. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:31
Hannibal says, Well, what about your life? I don't care about



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:34
the lives you save. I care about your life. And your life is



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:37
separating from reality at this point. Will admits to



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:42
sleepwalking and hallucinating, which is,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:16:44
and it's the first time he does that.



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:47
This is the first time I think he's told anybody.



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:50
And he's like, maybe I should get my brain scanned. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:52
Hannibal is like, will no stop looking at in the wrong corners



Jeremy Greer:
00:16:57
for your answers. And this is so telling. This is, this is



Jeremy Greer:
00:17:00
Hannibal giving away himself so badly.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:04
Listen. So okay, so you and I had a DM



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:07
conversation about this, because one thing that I've written



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:12
about in my academic career is called testimonial injustice in



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:16
medicine. So it's this idea that doctors don't always listen to



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:18
their patients because of the like unconscious bias that they



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:21
have against different aspects of their patient's identity. So



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:25
I'm particularly interested in moments when doctors dismiss the



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:28
concerns of patients who are like young women who are



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:31
disabled, particularly by chronic pain. And so all of my



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:36
red flags came up when Will said, I think there's something



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:39
wrong with me. I want a brain scan. And Hannibal was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:42
nah, this is a psychiatric problem. Like, big fuck you,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:46
Hannibal, because I can excuse cannibalism, but I draw the line



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:51
at medical gaslighting. Like, I mean, will has insurance, right?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:17:57
Like, get him a brain scan. Like, you've got a man who's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:00
hallucinating a brain scan isn't actually a crazy request, it's a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:04
completely valid one. And if the MRI comes back clean, then you



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:08
then you investigate other options. But like, I was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:12
this is, this is a big no no. And, and while I was watching



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:17
this, I was also transcribing the episode with the angel



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:20
maker, who has, like, this brain tumor, right? And, like, I was



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:24
noticing how many similarities there were between this episode



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:29
and, like, what's happening to the angel maker? And I'm like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:31
is will sick? Like, is he actually sick? And, like, and I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:34
came back to this, and I was like, yes, something's wrong



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:37
with Will. Like, something is physically wrong with this man,



Jeremy Greer:
00:18:42
any I mean, do you want to guess anything? Do you



Jeremy Greer:
00:18:44
want to, do you want to do a prediction of any kind?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:46
I mean, I don't know. I mean, I feel like it



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:48
would be really cheesy if they did, like a brain tumor, but



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:52
maybe, like some kind of growth, like, I don't know, did he get a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:55
concussion or something? But that, I don't know. I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
00:18:58
know. I'm not a doctor. I have no idea.



Jeremy Greer:
00:18:59
Sure. I'm fascinated by this idea. Like I



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:03
didn't know this that you had written about this in your



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:05
academic career when we started this podcast. If I did, I would



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:08
not have been able to shut the fuck up about it. So the fact



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:10
that it just comes up naturally within the course of this the



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:13
show, and it's gonna be something, I think that you're



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:17
gonna your red flags are going up, and they're probably gonna



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:20
stay up for a few episodes, so we're just gonna listen, gonna



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:23
keep rolling. It is, it is a lot for Hannibal. And I think it's



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:28
just, you know, this is another sign of Hannibal manipulating



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:30
will, right? Like this is, we've talked a lot about him, his



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:33
ability, his desire, to control the things around him. And this



Jeremy Greer:
00:19:36
is just another one of those of pointing will in a direction.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:19:40
In a different direction. And also, like, one



Marie Vigouroux:
00:19:42
thing that I, I, I thought back to, is the fact it's is, like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:19:46
his sense of smell, right? So, like, if will is sick, then he



Marie Vigouroux:
00:19:49
must know, and he's there, therefore, like, purposely



Marie Vigouroux:
00:19:53
pointing him elsewhere, which is, like, awful, like, I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
00:19:59
know it - can Will die of whatever it is that he has, like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:20:02
is, anyway, I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
00:20:04
know. I don't know.



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:06
Poor will is all I will say. Poor will. Hannibal



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:10
changes the subject, not flirtatiously this time, but he



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:12
asked about the crime scene. And will describes this killer



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:17
building this totem pole as marking his achievements. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:20
Hannibal is getting worried. He says that will empathize is so



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:22
completely with the murders that Jack has him looking at that



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:24
it's breaking his mind. And he goes so far to say, I don't want



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:27
you to wake up looking at a totem of your own making. And I



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:31
feel like this works in a couple of different ways. Like, there's



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:33
the there's like, the metaphor of a totem of this, like, gross



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:38
monument to your quote, unquote achievements, right, that he's



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:41
talking about, but then also, like, kind of insinuating that



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:45
will could be a murderer, right? Because that's one of the things



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:48
that will is worried about having killed Garrett Jacob



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:50
Hobbs, and played into Will's fear of how much he like



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:55
responded to that emotionally. Is, again, fuck you. Hannibal is



Jeremy Greer:
00:20:59
the -



Marie Vigouroux:
00:21:01
that is also something that I was mentioning



Marie Vigouroux:
00:21:03
in that specific in the angel maker episode, where I was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:21:05
did will kill those people, because it sounds like he could



Marie Vigouroux:
00:21:08
have and I just ah, this show!



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:12
Makes you want to scream. We're gonna catch up



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:17
with our with our girl, Abigail. We get our intro to the show,



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:20
and then we're gonna catch up with Abigail, who we haven't



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:22
really seen significantly in a while. She showed up in one of



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:25
Will's dreams, and that's really about it. She's in group



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:28
therapy. She's describing hearing her dad's voice every



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:31
day whispering into her ear, saying that he told her to kill



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:34
girls again and again so that he told me that he killed girls



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:40
again and again so that he wouldn't have to kill me. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:42
she wants to know why, like, what it is about her that was so



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:46
bad that he had to kill that he wanted to kill her so bad. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:50
when she looks up, we realize all of the group therapy



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:52
participants have turned into her father's victims, and



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:55
there's basically just yelling at her, like, you know, he



Jeremy Greer:
00:21:58
should have killed you. He should have killed you because



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:00
he wouldn't have killed me. And then they all disappear, and we



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:03
see Nick, the person that she actually killed, and he says he



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:08
should have killed you so that you wouldn't have killed me. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:11
then she wakes up in bed, sweaty, having from this



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:14
nightmare.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:22:16
Yeah, this is one of those scenes where I just



Marie Vigouroux:
00:22:19
couldn't take notes, even on rewatch, because I just was just



Marie Vigouroux:
00:22:21
so fascinated with what was happening on screen, and I have



Marie Vigouroux:
00:22:24
nothing else to say except, wow, that's, that's what I have in my



Marie Vigouroux:
00:22:27
notes. Like, that's it.



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:30
Intense. It's extremely intense. Will arrives



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:35
at Jack's office, and he's there to apologize rather steepestly.



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:38
And Jack is like, what's about, what like, what's going on?



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:42
Like, are you? Are you? Are you okay? And Jack's and will is



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:46
confused. He assumed that when he blacked out and drove three



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:49
and a half hours to see Hannibal that he left some sort of



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:52
impression on Jack. And Jack was like, No, I didn't even notice



Jeremy Greer:
00:22:55
anything. Jack even, will even go so far to say, like, I seem



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:00
fine to you. And Jack presses him on this and boy, if Hannibal



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:05
is a manipulator, Jack is in the same fucking class, because he's



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:10
like, you know, if there's a problem, you need to tell me



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:13
there's a problem. Is there a problem? Will and will is like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:16
no, no, no. And this is just such a huge example of



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:21
manipulating somebody, because it's obvious there's a problem.



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:24
Like, you can't look at will and go, like, that's normal. Like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:29
Alana looks at will and is, like, I want to date that, but I



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:31
gotta fix it first. Like, I mean, like, you can easily tell



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:34
that he is under some sort of mental and emotional duress.



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:37
Like, he's obviously not at optimum performance level, like



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:41
he's not, he shouldn't be at work, right? Like you can kind



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:43
of tell that. And instead of taking the responsibility as a



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:47
leader and as a mentor, Jack pushes that responsibility back



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:51
onto will and says, Well, you have to tell me if you're sick.



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:55
And I don't, I don't know anything about, like, kind of



Jeremy Greer:
00:23:57
medical stuff, really at all. I'm not a trained expert, but I



Jeremy Greer:
00:24:00
would imagine that it's much more difficult for someone to



Jeremy Greer:
00:24:03
admit they have a problem than for someone to reach out and



Jeremy Greer:
00:24:06
help them with that problem. And it just feels really icky that



Jeremy Greer:
00:24:10
Jack is doing this.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:12
Of course, like, I mean, I mean, that's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:14
something that we've talked about a lot in this podcast,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:16
about how, like, Jack uses similar manipulation technique



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:19
tactics than Hannibal, and here it's no different, like, because



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:24
Jack doesn't actually want will to tell him that there's a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:27
problem, right? Because then he wouldn't be able to use him



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:29
anymore in his investigation.



Jeremy Greer:
00:24:31
Exactly.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:31
He wouldn't be able to use him to close cases



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:33
for his own advantage, right? For his own advancement within



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:37
the FBI. And so he's making sure that will won't tell him, right?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:42
By putting the exact kind of pressure on will that he knows



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:46
will make him not want to tell him, which is particularly awful



Marie Vigouroux:
00:24:52
given that, like, Will was there for Jack when Jack needed help.



Jeremy Greer:
00:24:57
Like, yeah, just showed up with a. Questions



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:00
unasked. Just was there for his boy, right? And now, and now you



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:04
have this, which is Jack, just like, oh, I have, I can't help



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:07
you, because I have to use you.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:25:09
I need Beverly to intervene, frankly.



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:12
This whole show needs Beverly. Look, we need way



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:14
more Beverly to be honest with you. We should. We should always



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:18
be asking, where Beverly is when she's not on the screen.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:25:21
Because, again, like, because the ERT team is,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:25:23
like, so, like, I don't know loosey goosey with their roles



Marie Vigouroux:
00:25:26
and responsibilities. Like, I don't really know what



Marie Vigouroux:
00:25:28
Beverly's, like training is, but she would know that something's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:25:32
wrong with will. And I just, I need her to intervene now.



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:35
We need her. We need her now. We're gonna jump



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:40
back over to Abigail, who is meeting with Freddie Lowndes.



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:43
She tells Freddie that she sold her parents house, but didn't



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:46
really get a good price for it, because, you know, it's a it's a



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:49
murder house, and Freddie says it doesn't matter anyway, that



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:51
they're there, she's being sued, and that the victims families



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:55
are probably going to get all of that money, but she could get



Jeremy Greer:
00:25:57
her own money if she helps Freddie write a book about her



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:00
father. Freddie says, like, there's nobody else that's that



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:04
knows more about what your father did than I do. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:07
Abigail says, Well, what about will Graham? He's like, Well,



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:12
let's not talking about Will she and Abigail says, Will avoids me



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:17
because I make him feel like my father. And Freddie says,



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:20
feeling like your father makes him feel like a killer. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:22
Abigail is just like, I'm gonna ignore that statement too. I



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:24
don't really know how to respond to that.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:26:27
Such a piece of shit, honestly. Like, I dislike



Marie Vigouroux:
00:26:31
her so much.



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:33
And Abigail agrees finally, to to tell to allow



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:36
Freddie to tell her story, to write this book. And you're



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:39
right, like, it's interesting because in the show, she's such



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:43
a, like, a carefully coiffed and poised character, but she's got



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:49
this kind of, like scumbag, like profession situation happening.



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:53
And in the books, like the scumbag is just full present,



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:56
like in the books, like this is like a described as, like, a



Jeremy Greer:
00:26:59
short, fat, greasy, kind of, like, scumbag dude, reporter



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:03
guy. It's an interesting twist, the way that they did Freddie



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:06
Lowndes. And I kind of love it, because, like, you look at her



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:09
and you think, like, Oh, she can do this and she could do this,



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:12
respectively. But like, she's also, like, getting into the



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:14
dirt.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:16
But that's the thing like to me, even though,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:18
no matter how pretty she is, no matter how, like, you know, well



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:23
groomed she is, she, she is such a scumbag. Like, the way she is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:27
with Abigail, like, I don't even care, like, it's one of those



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:31
things. Like, you know how sometimes, like, really



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:33
beautiful people are really, really awful, yes, and you're



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:36
just like, you can no longer see their beauty just because of how



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:40
awful they are, and you're just like, you smell like vinegar to



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:43
me. Now, like, I don't know if that's just me, but like, I get



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:46
that. No, no,



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:47
No, no, I think that's a really good - I think



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:49
that's a really good way to put it, of just like they smell like



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:52
vinegar, like they're just off putting, absolutely.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:27:54
And, and I'm kind of torn here, because



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:54
Yeah, you're like that Tiktok guy, the red flag



Jeremy Greer:
00:27:57
obviously, like, autobiographical writing, like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:00
is actually, like, kind of a normal reaction to really big



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:03
life events, and particularly to trauma, and it's well documented



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:06
that like, it can help not only the person doing the writing,



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:09
but also the people reading in order to deal with the things



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:12
that they've been through. But this is Freddie Lowndes we're



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:15
talking about here like, that's partnering with Abigail and



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:19
again, like, my red flags, like there are not, I don't hands to



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:24
put them all up.



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:26
guy on Tiktok, he just runs back and forth with a giant red flag.



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:32
We're gonna jump to the morgue, which is now packed with the



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:36
bodies that they have pulled away from the Totem and also



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:38
picture the way that it was, pictures of the way it was



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:40
assembled. They've counted up a total of 17 bodies, and the most



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:45
recent one is special, as will describes the seven graves that



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:50
were around the totem pole are all wrong for wrongful deaths



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:53
that were attributed as accidents. And will just as like



Jeremy Greer:
00:28:56
they're all murders and turns around and walks away like It



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:00
must be really difficult working with this guy on a day to day



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:02
basis



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:03
for sure, for sure.



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:05
And we go to Will's classroom where he's



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:07
going through the list of victims that they've identified,



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:10
saying that every death was made to look like something else,



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:14
like the method of these murders is less important than the



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:17
simple fact that they die. Except for this latest one,



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:20
where you know this killer built in a literal monument to his to



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:24
his kills, and put this latest victim on top of his -



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:27
ostentatious is the word, I think, will uses. So something



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:30
changed, if the design was to remain unnoticed, why is this?



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:34
Why is he coming out to the light now?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:38
And it's interesting, you're using like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:41
the words, or like will uses the words, like coming out to the



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:45
light, because it made me think about that. This is also what



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:48
Abigail is doing right, like coming to the light by telling



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:51
her story, and also possibly unearthing some other secrets as



Marie Vigouroux:
00:29:54
well.



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:56
You know, we didn't specifically say this,



Jeremy Greer:
00:29:58
but to go back to that Jack and will conversation. Like, when we



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:00
talk about pushing boundaries, right? Like, think that I just



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:02
wanted to relate that back to our theme. I don't think we



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:04
specifically said that, even though it did, it does fit,



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:07
right? Like this is and also, like the killer is doing this.



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:09
Like the killer was, you know, was working within the confines



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:12
of his own design, and now he's pushing against that.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:30:15
Oh, yeah, definitely.



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:16
Alana steps in the room, and we realized that will



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:20
has just been talking to an empty classroom. Whether or not



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:23
he's been he finished his class and they all left and he's just



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:26
been sitting there this entire time, or he's just been doing



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:29
this the entire time. And Alana interprets this is, like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:32
rehearsing. Like, oh, what I mean to interrupt you, if you're



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:33
like, practicing your, you know your speech, I don't know what



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:37
you call it. With you, your



Marie Vigouroux:
00:30:38
your lecture



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:39
your lecture. There you go. That's the word



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:40
I'm looking for. Thank you.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:30:41
And like, and just like, Get this man a brain



Marie Vigouroux:
00:30:43
scan. Just get him to the nearest hospital, throw him into



Marie Vigouroux:
00:30:49
an MRI machine and get him a brain scan. Like that is all I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:30:52
want.



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:53
Yeah. And it's even worse, because Alana comes



Jeremy Greer:
00:30:57
in, and we talked a lot about Alana and will in their



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:02
relationship in the last episode, where they kiss the



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:04
first time, and she kind of did a well now that I can have you,



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:06
I don't want you thing. And we see the same thing here, where



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:08
she's like, Oh, I regretted the way that I left it. He and he's



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:12
like, regretted it and that you wanted to redo it like he's you



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:15
could tell he's just so fucking confused. And she says, like, I



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:18
don't want to mislead you, but I don't want to lie to you either.



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:20
And I'm like, Girl, like, pick a lane. Like, you gotta. You



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:24
can't. You can't. And she even says, like, oh, I, you know, I



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:28
have feelings for you, but like, I can't. I can't have these



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:30
feelings for you because you're unstable. And I guess that's



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:34
fine, and I guess I understand it, but like, keep it in your



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:36
pants Alana.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:31:38
Listen, listen, like, this is just so messy,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:31:41
right? Because, like, she, like you said, Now that she rejected



Marie Vigouroux:
00:31:45
him and she can't have him anymore, she wants him again.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:31:47
And I'm telling you, Alana bloom like, this is textbook comphet,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:31:52
go kiss a girl. You'll be fine. Like, it will be okay. Like, I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:31:55
promise you.



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:56
I've seen this phrase comphet toss around, and



Jeremy Greer:
00:31:59
I can kind of pick it up via context, but then it was



Jeremy Greer:
00:32:03
everyone's using it to describe Chappel Roan's VMA performance.



Jeremy Greer:
00:32:09
And I'm, I like it, I'm failing on my context clues to pick up



Jeremy Greer:
00:32:12
with this, I guess. I mean, can you give me just a brief



Jeremy Greer:
00:32:15
definition of it? Because I like educate them, educate the CIS,



Jeremy Greer:
00:32:18
white guy, or anything. I've never had an actual definition.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:24
Basically it's a portmanteau word for



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:26
compulsory heterosexuality. And it's this idea that is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:31
particularly affecting queer women, whether they're bisexual



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:36
or lesbians. And it's basically this idea that like girls are



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:43
are taught to want to get the attention of boys, but for girls



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:51
who like girls, when they get the attention of a boy, they're



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:53
like ew I don't want him anymore, because, you know, the



Marie Vigouroux:
00:32:58
goal is to just get the attention, but once you have it,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:00
you don't actually like boys. So you don't want



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:03
yeah, you don't, you don't want to do the



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:04
physical stuff. Okay.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:05
Exactly. You're like, I just want you to like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:07
me. But now that you like me, I find you disgusting, because I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:09
don't actually like boys, right? So that's, that's this idea, and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:14
that's why, like, Good Luck Babe, particularly, is, is is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:17
hailed as, like a comp, like a song about compulsory



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:20
heterosexuality, because it's about like a lesbian telling her



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:24
lesbian lover that, like you can kiss as many boys as you want,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:28
you're not going to be a straight woman ever.



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:32
One day. We need to, if Mads Mikkelsen is ever on



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:34
cameo, we need to pay him to do that face to face thing that she



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:37
does and during the during the bridge of that song, because I



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:41
just, every time I see her perform it, I'm like face to



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:43
face. I just love it so much.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:33:47
She's so good. I love this girl so much.



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:50
Alana asked, Will, very specifically, do you feel



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:53
unstable? And will does a thing that he's going to do later with



Jeremy Greer:
00:33:58
another potential romantic partner, where he just kind of



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:01
nods slowly, and she hugs him, and he kind of sinks into this



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:06
hug, and if the camera lingers on his face, I took a screenshot



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:09
of this with my phone, because he just just, I mean, he just



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:14
looks so miserable, like he just looks like, like this physical



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:17
contact is like, almost a lifeline for him, but it's also



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:21
miserable for him, because he realizes, like, as much as this



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:24
physical contact is like surrounding him and helping him,



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:26
it's not the physical contact that he wants, right from Alana,



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:28
he it's a there's a boundary there that he's not crossing, to



Jeremy Greer:
00:34:32
take this back to our theme.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:35
And this is, like, this moment really kind of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:38
made me realize that nobody has a baseline on will. And what I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:41
mean by that is that, like, Alana never spent time with him



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:45
alone right before the start of this season. Hannibal met him



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:50
when the season started, and Jack, like, frankly, has just no



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:52
interest in knowing him right. Like, I think we can say that,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:54
and that's fair, and even us as viewers, like we've only known



Marie Vigouroux:
00:34:59
Will Graham since the beginning of this season, so we don't know



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:02
what he was like before. And the reason this is important is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:07
that, like, when people are behaving oddly, it's like it's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:11
the people who have known them for a while, like the people who



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:13
have a baseline on them who are like, something's wrong with



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:17
you, like you need a brain scan. But here everyone is like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:22
you're unstable. Don't tell me anything is wrong, because I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:25
don't give a shit or like, it's all in your head, will and like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:28
Will could potentially be very sick, like I said earlier, and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:31
no one would know. No one would know, because nobody had a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:35:34
baseline on him.



Jeremy Greer:
00:35:36
Yeah, it's almost like he was isolated right



Jeremy Greer:
00:35:39
before Jack brought him into this world. And it's kind of



Jeremy Greer:
00:35:43
fascinating that he's he probably isolated himself as for



Jeremy Greer:
00:35:47
a reason, if we, if we talk about him being on the spectrum,



Jeremy Greer:
00:35:52
he probably had feelings like this and pulled away from the



Jeremy Greer:
00:35:57
world specifically to avoid situations like this, and then



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:01
being drawn out, and now he's going through all of this kind



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:03
of mental anguish, and also could be physically reacting to



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:06
something we don't know. Who knows. Get this man a brain



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:08
scan.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:36:09
Get this man a brain scan. Goddamn! Brain scan!



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:16
Will and Hannibal are visiting Abigail having



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:19
heard the news that she's going to write a book with with



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:21
Freddie and trying to convince her that this is an absolutely



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:23
terrible, terrible idea. And it's just, it's just very funny,



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:29
neither one of them are like this idea at all.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:36:32
No, no, no, no, like. That's like, because



Marie Vigouroux:
00:36:36
Abigail tells them that, like, Freddy wanted her to write about



Marie Vigouroux:
00:36:39
will and Hannibal in her book. And I can't tell which one of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:36:44
them hates the idea the most.



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:47
And will, kind of goes on this, like, weird speech



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:50
that ends with, like, you know, all of this will change. Things



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:53
are changing for me too. And I'm like, way to make it about you



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:55
will, like, what are you doing? Like, talk to Abigail, and



Jeremy Greer:
00:36:58
Abigail, like, kicks back at this too, saying just because



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:00
you killed my dad doesn't mean you get to be him, which is a



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:04
line that, like, only a certain amount of people can say to



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:06
somebody, that's a real it's a rare line that you get to it's a



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:10
rare burn. You know what I'm saying, like you got them.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:37:13
Right, right, rare burn.



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:15
And Abigail says, like, I don't need your



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:18
permission to do any of this. And I love Hannibal's response,



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:21
where he says, You don't need our approval, you know, you



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:24
don't need our permission. You don't need our approval. But I



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:26
like to think that that would be important to you. And I really,



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:29
really like that saying, like, you know, we were there to help



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:33
you, like, ostensibly, we have been here to help you. Like, you



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:35
haven't been in the last four episodes. We've been busy, but



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:38
you're still a guest star, and we're here to help you, and it's



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:44
and we hope that that relationship that we've



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:46
established is you know, enough for you to listen to what we



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:49
have to say. And I think layered in this, as Hannibal looks at



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:52
her like very specifically saying like the relationship



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:56
that you and I have established with one another outside that



Jeremy Greer:
00:37:59
anybody else knows which is, which is not good, which is also



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:03
No, no. The second, the second that Hannibal



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:03
a little creepy.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:06
starts talking, like, starts his double speak with Abigail, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:10
all like, like, just my heartbeat stops, like, I just, I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:13
can't deal with any of this. But what we're seeing here, like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:17
this conversation between Hannibal, well, Hannibal and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:20
will with Abigail. But particularly Hannibal is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:24
actually like a very real debate, like or conversation



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:27
about autobiography, autobiographical writing. And



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:32
let's take, I like to take the example of Prince Harry's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:34
memoir, just because it was so controversial and polarizing,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:39
like some people said, that, like, he should be able to



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:41
freely write about anything that happened in his life, because it



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:44
is his life. And then you've got the other side of that coin,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:47
where people argued that, like, the people he was writing about,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:50
like, hadn't consented to be in a published work and to have



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:53
their lives exposed in that way. And this is true of any memoir



Marie Vigouroux:
00:38:59
really, like, not just Prince Harry. Like, think if you had to



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:01
write a memoir like, I'm pretty sure that there are probably



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:03
some people in there who would be like, maybe not super happy



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:06
with the stuff that you would have to say.



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:09
Mostly Autumn.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:13
But the other argument is that it is your



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:16
life, and therefore you should be able to write about it



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:18
however you wish. And that's kind of the conversation that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:21
we're seeing between Abigail and her dads like, they're



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:24
literally, like, stretching each other's boundaries in that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:28
sense.



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:29
Love that you're already calling them her dad's



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:31
that's so good.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:32
But I mean, that's what they're calling



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:33
themselves.



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:34
It's absolutely true, yeah



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:36
I'm using their words.



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:39
I missed the prince, Harry memoir stuff.



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:42
Yeah, I can, I can only imagine the stuff that he would write



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:44
about people and have people be upset, because that's such a the



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:47
royal family is such an insular organization as a whole, like



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:51
having anything said that's not officially approved to the, you



Jeremy Greer:
00:39:53
know, official channels or whatever, would be vaguely bad.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:39:58
Oh, it was very bad. Yeah. It was very, very



Marie Vigouroux:
00:40:01
bad.



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:02
Abigail insists that she just wants people to



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:04
know that she she didn't help kill those girls. And Hannibal



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:08
kind of walks a little closer to her and is is threatening,



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:10
almost, when he says, like, are you ready for what will come



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:14
through that door when you open it, man, Hannibal is terrified.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:40:19
It's not, it's not vaguely threatening.



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:22
It's just an actual threat, okay.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:40:24
It's just an actual threat. Like, it's a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:40:26
thinly veiled one, but it's a threat, you know, that only



Marie Vigouroux:
00:40:30
Abigail can really understand. But it's, it's a fucking threat,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:40:33
man like, whew.



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:34
And and again, you know, we talk about pushing



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:37
boundaries, right? Like this is we cut from this to someone



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:40
literally opening up a grave. This is something that always



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:44
gets me on a rewatch. I think I've seen this episode probably



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:46
three or four times, and every single time I'm like, Well, this



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:49
is Hannibal digging up Nick to like, put Abigail in her place,



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:52
and it's gonna be revealed. That's absolutely not what is



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:54
not what, what's happening. But every single time it gets me, I



Jeremy Greer:
00:40:57
don't, don't know why.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:00
You know, it's funny, because I didn't get it



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:02
the first time that I watched it. So, like, in the scene where



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:04
that happens, like, I have trouble understanding Mads, so,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:07
like, I didn't quite understand what was going on exactly, but I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:10
was like, who knows? Who knows is it will has he understood it?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:14
What's going on? So anyway, yeah, there you go.



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:19
We go do some some, some criminal stuff.



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:21
They've identified some of the bodies, some the one of the



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:23
bottom is from 40 years ago, and will thinks that there's going



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:26
to be some sort of connection between the first and the last.



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:31
Jack interrupts, fortunately, we don't, we don't deal with



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:34
science stuff for too long. He brings will and to his office,



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:36
along with Hannibal and Alana, and tells them that Nick's body



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:40
has been found in Minnesota, and Jack has flown the body to the



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:45
morgue, and he wants Abigail to identify him, even though



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:47
they've already got an identification on him. He wants



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:50
Abigail specifically to look at the body to see her reaction.



Jeremy Greer:
00:41:54
And no one in the room agrees with Jack whatsoever.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:41:58
And I have to say here that Jack, Jack has



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:01
excellent boundaries, because he's like, I know what I'm



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:04
entitled to do, and I will do it regardless of what anyone tells



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:08
me. And Hannibal even says, like, that line that I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:10
absolutely love. And you can tell that Hannibal is just like,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:12
rolling his eyes as he says it. He's like, Jack has the look of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:15
a man with no interest in anyone's opinion but his own.



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:18
It's so good. It's so good.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:42:21
I love it.



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:21
And again, you know, you talk about him having



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:23
boundaries, but also, this is, this is him pushing boundaries,



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:26
right? Like, this is him. Like, there's, I don't think that



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:29
there's, I'm pretty sure Abigail is supposed to be 17 in this



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:32
like, I think she's a minor. And, like, having no reasonable



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:37
legal guardian would allow something like this to happen.



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:41
Like, you've already got an identification on the body, my



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:43
daughter, my this girl that who's my responsibility. I'm not



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:46
gonna allow her for you to barrage her with questions while



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:50
standing over the corpse of someone who attacked her.



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:53
There's no way this happens, right? Like this is definitely



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:55
crossing a line, and everybody knows it. And you can tell



Jeremy Greer:
00:42:58
because Alana's body language that she escorts Abigail into



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:01
the morgue where Jack is standing over the body of Nick



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:05
like her body language is like, I fucking hate this, and I hate



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:08
you for making me do this.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:09
Right? It's kind of funny. Actually, I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:13
never, I always thought that she wasn't a minor specifically



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:16
because, like, otherwise, she wouldn't have been staying in a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:21
in a psychiatric hospital where there would have been other



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:24
adults. But again, like this is such a like this. This show is



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:31
so loosey goosey with procedure, that it's very possible.



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:34
And I could be wrong too. Like, it could be one



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:36
of those things where, but like she, she's a schoolgirl, like, I



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:38
guess if we see her, like, recruiting college age student.



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:42
She's probably over 18 or something. And, like, you know,



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:44
but I don't know. I don't, I don't. But again, like, I don't



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:46
think any reasonable person that she had any reasonable fathers



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:50
in her life -



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:50
She was applying for college, so I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
00:43:53
know about that, how old that would make her, but -



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:55
So I graduated high school when I was 17, but



Jeremy Greer:
00:43:58
that was because my birthday was in November, and so, like, I



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:03
turned 18 that year. Most people, most most kids, are 18



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:05
when they graduate high school and start going to col.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:44:07
Okay, so, okay, so she might be, like, just a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:44:10
very young adult.



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:11
Yes, yeah. I think, I think they skewer her



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:14
young on purpose too, like they make her look a lot younger than



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:16
she is. Jack, kind of just barrages her with questions, you



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:21
know, asking her if she had anything to do with it, asking



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:25
her, you know, saying, Oh, he was killed by being gutted with



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:29
a hunter knife. Like, you know, how to do that. Your father, you



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:31
know, taught you how to do that. And Alana tries to stop this,



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:34
but Jack just overrules her, calling her Dr bloom, very



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:38
specifically, and saying, like, you know, this is you're invited



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:41
here, like, I can, I can just kick you out. And then he says



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:44
something really interesting that's easy to look over. I



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:47
think he asked her where she goes when she escapes from the



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:49
hospital. And we know that she's escaped once and went to



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:53
Hannibal, but this is a reveal that she's been escaping many



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:56
times, and we don't know what she's doing. She says that she's



Jeremy Greer:
00:44:59
just gotta get away, like she's just got to kind of decompress.



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:02
And he asked her, if you know, do you meet with anybody? Do you



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:05
did you know? Did you know Nick? Did you go meet Nick, or did you



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:08
go find Nick, or do anything with Nick while you were out?



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:11
And she's like, Absolutely not. And she just kind of keeps



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:14
insisting, like, I don't know anything. I know he was trying



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:17
to kill me. And all could think about is that I was going to die



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:19
in that house, after all, and she begins to cry as she



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:22
remembers this attack on her. And it's it's for as much as we



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:29
know that this is wrong or that this is a lie, like she's



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:31
putting on a very, very good performance.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:45:33
I mean, so she says with a lot of conviction,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:45:38
that she survived, right? And I wanted to note that, because I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:45:43
want to come back to it later. And this is also something that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:45:46
Hannibal had told her in an earlier episode that, like she



Marie Vigouroux:
00:45:49
did what she had to do in order to survive. Yeah, I'm just gonna



Marie Vigouroux:
00:45:54
leave it at that for now.



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:55
Okay, yeah. Jack says, you know, do you haven't



Jeremy Greer:
00:45:59
seen him since the attack, and she says only in my nightmares.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:05
So this moment, this is this is so anyway, in



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:10
this moment, I realized that Abigail is a very practiced



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:13
liar, because she knew exactly what she had to say so that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:18
nothing that she says was a lie, and yet she still wasn't telling



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:23
the truth, or the whole truth, and like that is really



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:26
practiced behavior. And I was like, oh, oh, no.



Jeremy Greer:
00:46:33
She's getting good at this. I wonder what she does



Jeremy Greer:
00:46:35
when she leaves that, when she escapes from the hospital.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:38
Well, it's not so much just that she's getting



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:40
good at this is that she had to have been really good at this



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:43
before. So, like, there were other things that were happening



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:46
before that made her really practice liar. And, you know,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:49
remember how I was, like, you know, I don't buy that. Her dad



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:52
was really loving and whatnot. Like, I just, yeah, there you



Marie Vigouroux:
00:46:55
go.



Jeremy Greer:
00:46:56
Abigail leaves, and Alana kinda escorts her out.



Jeremy Greer:
00:46:58
But Alana comes back and she yells at Jack, saying that,



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:01
like, Abigail is obviously working very hard to hide



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:04
something, but it isn't the murder of Nick. And he's like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:07
why do you why do you think she's telling the truth? And



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:09
Alana says, because if, even if I didn't trust Abigail, like



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:13
Hannibal, was there the whole time, any reservations I have



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:16
about Abigail do not extend to Hannibal. And I'm just like, ah.



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:20
And then she says, he has no reason to lie about any of this,



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:22
and I'm screaming on my couch, just literally screaming on my



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:25
couch.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:26
To be fair, from her point of view, it's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:30
very logical. Like, why would she be like distrusting of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:36
Hannibal? Right? Like she's established her own boundaries



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:39
in this quest, in this particular moment, right? Like



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:41
she doesn't fully trust Abigail, but she trusts Hannibal because,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:44
like, she's always felt safe around him. So why would she,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:49
why? Right?



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:50
Why would she distrust anything about



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:51
Hannibal? Right? Like there's no reason to right now, and it's



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:54
just, it's just -



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:55
For her. We know that she should distrust



Marie Vigouroux:
00:47:57
him.



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:57
It's like they were like, Let's make this show



Jeremy Greer:
00:47:59
as ironic as possible, as much as possible. Like, we just want



Jeremy Greer:
00:48:02
people to literally feast on the irony of everything that happens



Jeremy Greer:
00:48:05
in the show.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:48:07
Feast, indeed.



Jeremy Greer:
00:48:08
Hannibal is confronting Abigail, saying,



Unknown:
00:48:08
I think it's because we kind of see Abigail, like, as



Unknown:
00:48:12
kind of in his like, you know, Hannibal way, like, it can be a



Unknown:
00:48:14
comfort to see the corpse of a monster, like, to see it kind of



Unknown:
00:48:17
splayed in front of you, to know it's not going to attack you



Unknown:
00:48:18
you know, this idea of like, she projects her victimhood, or



Unknown:
00:48:19
again. And she says he wasn't the monster, but sometimes I



Unknown:
00:48:22
feel like one. And he asked her, is that why you uncovered the



Unknown:
00:48:26
body? And I think it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion



Unknown:
00:48:30
to come to that, like, as you're watching the show, for Hannibal



Unknown:
00:48:32
to have dug up the body specifically to like, put



Unknown:
00:48:34
Abigail in a position of defense, to like, get her to not



Unknown:
00:48:38
write this memoir, or to get her under back under his control or



Unknown:
00:48:40
whatever. But no, we find out it's exactly the opposite, like



Unknown:
00:48:44
she literally dug up the body, left it for the FBI to found.



Unknown:
00:48:47
And she did this because she wanted to control what comes



Unknown:
00:48:50
through the door to she says back to Hannibal, like no longer



Unknown:
00:48:54
does she have to really worry about them finding the body they



Unknown:
00:48:56
already have, like she's and she's already survived Jack



Unknown:
00:49:00
Crawford's questioning, like she's past this point, and it's



Unknown:
00:49:04
so this is such a twist. Like, I just every single time it gets



Unknown:
00:49:08
me, and I don't, I don't know why.



Unknown:
00:49:19
something like, I think Alana said that in one of the earlier



Unknown:
00:49:22
episodes. And I think that, like we as the audience do see her,



Unknown:
00:49:25
like, as a victim, you know, like she was manipulated by her



Unknown:
00:49:28
dad, she was manipulated by Hannibal. She was, she is being



Unknown:
00:49:30
manipulated by basically everyone around her, by Freddie



Unknown:
00:49:33
Lowndes, and here, like she's doing this one thing that



Unknown:
00:49:37
really, like gives her the upper hand, and it feels really



Unknown:
00:49:43
different from everything that we had seen her do before. Like,



Unknown:
00:49:45
she was always on the defensive, whereas here she's on the



Unknown:
00:49:48
offensive.



Jeremy Greer:
00:49:49
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important to



Jeremy Greer:
00:49:51
mention too, that, like, you can be a victim as well as a



Jeremy Greer:
00:49:54
perpetrator at the same time, right?



Jeremy Greer:
00:49:56
Like, you know, it doesn't - victimhood doesn't



Marie Vigouroux:
00:49:56
oh yeah.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:49:59
necessarily excuse behavior. Sometimes it can just explain



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:01
it. And I think it's perfectly reasonable to empathize and feel



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:06
sorry for what she's gone through, and then to also



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:07
realize, like, oh, this person that she is becoming, or has



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:10
become, is very scary. And so, yeah, it's it can be a little



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:14
terrifying. Hannibal says You betrayed my trust in such a way



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:19
that made me want to go hide behind my couch as I was



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:21
watching the show.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:22
I know I was like oh my God if Hannibal was



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:25
talking to me - but again, she doesn't know yet the extent of



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:30
Hannibal's like awfulness, right? And she is really testing



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:36
his boundaries here and seeing what he did to Franklin and



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:39
Tobias in the last episode, I'm just like, don't, don't betray



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:45
his trust. Because he says, like, I need to trust you,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:50:50
Abigail, what if I can't?



Jeremy Greer:
00:50:51
And I just knowing that he's trying to set himself



Jeremy Greer:
00:50:57
up as her father and doing this, I need to be able to trust you,



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:01
what if I can't kind of vague, threatening thing, and knowing



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:04
how much that she's already relying on him for, for comfort



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:08
and for mentorship and for, you know, safety, terrifying,



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:12
absolutely terrifying. I'm not sure will would be any better in



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:15
his current condition, but Hannibal is arguably worse, is



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:18
so much superior, yeah?



Marie Vigouroux:
00:51:20
Well, especially like with the twist



Marie Vigouroux:
00:51:22
of the totem killer, right? Like you're like, oh, oh no. We'll



Marie Vigouroux:
00:51:30
come back to that.



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:30
So we go back to the lab. They're doing police



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:33
stuff. They figure out some stuff, and it leads them to the



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:36
house of an old man who was the totem pole killer. This is



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:40
legendary actor, Lance, Lance Erickson. Hendrickson, excuse



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:43
me, who has been in everything and is just amazing. I want to



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:48
specifically call out like Bryan Fuller, apparently created this



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:51
character as a callback to a character that he plays, that



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:55
Lance Hendrickson plays in Millennium, which is a show from



Jeremy Greer:
00:51:58
Chris Carter, and also he shows up as that character from



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:02
Millennium and show X Files, which, of course, you have seen



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:05
multiple times, and I am currently, we're doing a podcast



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:07
about just love the connections. Just absolutely, like, I think I



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:11
told you last night, like, everybody talks about



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:12
Superwholock but like, really, it's Hannibal, X Files,



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:15
Supernatural. Like, those are the three that really should be



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:17
linked.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:52:19
Superhanifiles.



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:21
Superhanifiles, there we go.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:52:23
I mean, I love this because, like, it's so



Marie Vigouroux:
00:52:26
funny, because I saw his face, and I was like, Where do I know



Marie Vigouroux:
00:52:28
this actor from? And when you told me this, I was like, oh,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:52:31
it's that episode. Oh, okay, okay, cool, cool, cool.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:52:35
Yeah, like he says specifically, like, I could



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:35
Yeah, it's and, I mean, also, like, Terminator,



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:38
right? Like, he's in a bunch of different movies and stuff. So



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:41
here, he is, he's packed up his his entire house, he can see,



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:45
like the boxes and everything, and he's basically just waiting



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:49
with the door open for somebody to show up and catch him, and as



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:50
wave at a lady and smile, chew the fat with her in church



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:53
as will and Jack and no other police officers for some reason



Jeremy Greer:
00:52:57
come in. I don't, it doesn't matter, but it's just so funny,



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:01
the way that their place so loosey goosey with this stuff



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:04
like Will is, Will is obviously sick and he's a brain scan, but



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:08
like, here's a gun, come with me to the suspect's house.



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:12
Whatever. This guy says that he would have, he had faith that



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:16
they would find me, because he let them. Just says, I don't



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:19
have the fight anymore. And he says that he he basically killed



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:23
all of these people because he said he has, I had every reason



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:27
to kill them. They just had no reason to die. And he kind of



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:31
brags about just being this, like invisible killer, about



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:34
being able to blend into the community and kill without



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:38
anybody knowing, and then even, like, go to their funerals afterwards.



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:48
knowing that I killed her husband and like that is



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:51
literally Hannibal, right? Like in the episode where Abigail



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:54
kills Nick, he like, ends up like holding the grieving mother



Jeremy Greer:
00:53:58
of Abigail's best friend, knowing that he's the one who



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:01
killed his daughter. And again, I don't like these parallels.



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:06
It's even worse when you when you do a little



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:08
research and realize this was going to be a reoccurring



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:10
character at one point, really. And Bryan fuller specifically



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:14
wanted this character to be like somewhat of a father figure to



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:17
will and for that relationship to build in some sort of way.



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:20
And obviously it didn't happen. I guess not obviously to you.



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:23
But no, it does not happen. He doesn't show up again. But I can



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:26
imagine all sorts of fucked up things coming from that too. So



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:29
kind of, kind of glad we avoid that. He also says that, like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:33
you know, he's, he's not rich, so, like, he thinks that prison



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:36
will be a luxury compared to the retirement that he would get.



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:39
And he describes, you know, how popular he will be for having



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:43
been this, like, kind of famed killer in prison, which is



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:46
something that, like, I don't know that the books necessarily



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:49
get into, they get into a little bit about how, like, a lot of



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:50
these killers, like, crave the fame and the attention that they



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:52
get after the fact. And he says that he's securing his legacy.



Jeremy Greer:
00:54:57
And now it's time for a little bit of a twist. We didn't really



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:00
talk about all of the sciency stuff that's happening, but



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:02
essentially, the body at the top of the totem pole was the son of



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:08
the guy at the bottom of the totem pole. And when they



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:11
tracked it down, they realized, like, oh, wait, they're not



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:13
actually biologically related. And it turns out, this dude was



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:19
in love with the wife and had an affair with her before he killed



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:22
her, but he loved her too much to put her in the totem pole,



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:25
but assumed that the son was the first guy's son, and says that



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:29
he shouldn't exist, not knowing that it was his own son. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:32
will takes great glee in explaining this to him, that he



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:35
killed his own legacy. You didn't secure your legacy. You



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:37
murdered it. Will is very He's like, he's like, this, finally,



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:41
a good day, like I got a W in the corner. In the corner. This



Jeremy Greer:
00:55:44
has been a real shit week.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:55:48
And it's, it's so okay. So I've been talking



Marie Vigouroux:
00:55:51
about, like, the parallels between this killer and Hannibal



Marie Vigouroux:
00:55:54
and like, again, this idea that, like, he killed his own legacy,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:55:58
his own child. If Hannibal is positioning himself as Abigail's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:56:04
Dad, I don't trust this show.



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:08
Yeah, the show, especially because, like, we go



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:12
right into will, dreaming of Abigail right like we go from



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:15
you murdered your legacy, to will, tossing and turning,



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:20
sweating in bed. He sees Nick's dead body sit up on the table.



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:24
He sees himself stabbing Nick in the gut, and then all of a



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:27
sudden, Nick turns into Abigail, and now Abigail is stabbing him



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:31
in the gut, and will wakes up, and he's standing over Nick's



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:34
body at the morgue, and he rushes to Hannibal's office,



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:39
where Hannibal is just like sketching some stuff, like



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:41
sketching a bridge, like you do. He's just chilling out. And he



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:46
immediately tells Hannibal, Abigail killed Nick. And I think



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:50
one of the most shocking moments of the show, Hannibal just says,



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:53
Yeah, I know, yep. And you could tell will is just like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:56:57
motherfucker. I knew you knew. I didn't want you to know, but I'm



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:00
so glad you told like he's the amount of emotions that this man



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:03
runs through, and just like a brief second, all show on his



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:06
face. We don't talk enough, I don't think we mentioned, is it



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:10
Hugh Dancy? Hugh Darcy?Jjust the acting ability, the sheer acting



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:14
ability that he's, he's doing with will, I think this moment



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:17
in particular really got me of just he's, he's obviously like



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:21
not feeling well. He's been shook to his core because he



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:25
didn't believe that Abigail was responsible for really anything,



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:28
and now he's finding out. He kind of feels like he knows



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:30
this, and also his one of his best friends, right? His best



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:34
friend and confidant is in on it was also hiding this from him.



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:37
So like my dad and my daughter, my co-dad and my daughter were



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:41
hiding stuff from me, and it's just, it's just a moment. And



Jeremy Greer:
00:57:46
like, he goes through all of the emotions here



Marie Vigouroux:
00:57:49
Because I think he asks him, like, how did you



Marie Vigouroux:
00:57:51
know? And and Hannibal says, I helped her dispose of the body.



Marie Vigouroux:
00:57:55
It's like, Oh, my God, what are you doing? And it's, it's, it's



Marie Vigouroux:
00:57:58
like, kind of textbook like blackmail, I guess, or abuse, or



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:06
whatever, however you want to call it, of like, getting



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:08
somebody in on the secret so that now they're like, you know,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:12
they can't deny that they knew, right? So then they're like, a



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:17
part of the of the conspiracy as well. And I just, I think what



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:23
shocked me the most, though, in this exchange is when will goes,



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:27
evidently not well enough. Like that shook me because, like, I



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:33
was like, oh, okay, so it's not that he's mad like that



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:38
Hannibal, it basically, sorry. It's like, what he's mad about



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:43
here is that Hannibal didn't use his serial killer skills well



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:47
enough. And I just feel like the Overton window has dramatically



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:53
shifted here for will. I'm just like, What is going on? Get this



Marie Vigouroux:
00:58:57
man a brain scan.



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:00
I also want to talk a little bit about this



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:02
leap that will has made. Because obviously, will Will's, you



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:08
know, what Hannibal refers to as an empathy disorder, or what



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:12
Jack refers to as Will's abilities are this, this idea



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:16
that he can put himself in someone's point of view so well



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:21
that he can, kind of, he can pull information from that in



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:24
order to and then use that alongside he very he always



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:28
insists, alongside the evidence in front of him, right like he



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:31
always insists, like, it's not just me making up stuff, it's



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:33
the evidence telling me things to come to these conclusions and



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:37
then to work backwards from there to be able to prove that



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:39
that he was right here we see this, like he almost just has a



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:43
vision, right? Like, this is, this is, and I'm curious how



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:47
this, how this takes you, because it feels vaguely like,



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:50
not like supernatural, but like it's such a huge leap. And then



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:55
he believes it. And then I feel like, even though there's not



Jeremy Greer:
00:59:59
like physical evidence f this yet, when he goes to Hannibal,



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:01
and Hannibal confirms it, he's like, fuck. Like, it's almost



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:04
like this, this thing that I have, this ability that I have,



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:07
is almost out of my control at this point, where I'm literally



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:11
dream, walking, solving crimes. Like, that's fucking crazy,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:15
Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, again, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:18
it's it until we find out results of that brain scan?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:24
Like, it's, it's really hard to tell, but like, is the because



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:28
it seems like that empathy disorder, quote, unquote, was,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:32
was there before the season, right? So, like, it's something



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:35
that's, like, well documented. So I'm, like, I don't know.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:39
Like, again, it depends. It depends on so many things, but



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:42
it's like, is it part of like, the sickness? Is it like, I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:46
don't know. I don't know, but it feels like, right now, like he



Marie Vigouroux:
01:00:50
just needs a real doctor.



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:52
He just needs somebody to help, an actual



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:55
person that wants him to be better. Will says that he hasn't



Jeremy Greer:
01:00:59
told Jack, mostly because he did not want it to be true. You have



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:03
a note here, and me and autumn, like, rewrote this last night.



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:06
Like, yeah, Hannibal makes a decision here, right? Like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:09
because he looks down at his pencil sharpening scalpel and,



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:11
like, moves it like an inch to the left, like, he makes a



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:14
decision. Of, like, I I could do. I could deal with this two



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:17
ways. Like, this is, it's almost video gaming in the way that,



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:21
like, you know, press, press, press A to spare will press B to



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:25
kill Will. It's, it's so good, like, it's just a tiny little



Jeremy Greer:
01:01:30
moment too, and -



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:32
but it holds so much tension, right? Because,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:34
you know what he's capable of, and, like, he could make it



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:38
appear so that will, like, took his own life, right? I think it



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:42
would be like, I think nobody would question that, right? And



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:46
so, yeah, and the fact that he chooses to spare him, I think,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:51
is, is telling, of, like, how much attachment he has to him,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:01:56
because last episode, he didn't really care, or, no, he cared



Marie Vigouroux:
01:02:00
like, still sent him into danger. And this time he's like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:02:05
No, you know what? I'm keeping this one I'm keeping this stray.



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:09
I think he you know, it's that moment where the



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:12
stray becomes your pet, right? Not to like diminish this



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:16
relationship, because I think even Hannibal is having a hard



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:18
time. But it's that moment where you connect with something. So



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:20
last episode, leading up to last episode, he was almost kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:24
toying with will, to see what will would do, and then putting



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:27
will in harm's way with Tobias, and then having will come back



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:30
whole, and then sharing that moment together, was the moment



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:33
he was like, actually, now this is something I want to protect.



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:36
And this was exactly this was him fighting with his instincts



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:39
like and his instincts tell him, his instincts he's a killer, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:41
the reason that he hasn't been caught is probably because he's



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:43
been absolutely ruthless with having personal connections. And



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:47
so his instinct is to pick up that scalpel and to kill will



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:50
immediately, because he knows something that can damage him.



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:53
But he puts that aside to for that relationship, specifically



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:56
with will. And then he kind of underlines this a lot. He goes



Jeremy Greer:
01:02:59
over and he like places his hand on will shoulder. He says, you



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:03
know, he talks about how they're Abigail's father's now, did I



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:12
miss a line somewhere? There's something else in here.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:03:14
It's because So -



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:17
yeah. So this is what I wanted to bring up,



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:19
Hannibal. Hannibal says everything you know about that



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:21
night is true, except for the end. And he specifically hid it



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:25
because he knew what Jack would do to Abigail. And Will says,



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:29
like, this isn't our place to decide. And Hannibal is like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:31
no, but it is, if not, if it's not ours, who? Like, she doesn't



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:34
have anybody we are her fathers now. And then very specifically



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:38
tells will, you'll murder Abigail's future by going to



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:42
jack. And that use of murder, again, he used it earlier with



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:47
will, like bringing Will's attention to the idea that will



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:52
kind of enjoyed killing Garrett Jacob Hobbs maybe has a lot of



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:54
conflicted emotions about killing Garrett Jacob Hobbs



Jeremy Greer:
01:03:57
about potentially being a murderer, even though he didn't,



Jeremy Greer:
01:04:01
even know it was, quote, unquote justified. Murdering someone has



Jeremy Greer:
01:04:05
obviously affected will, and he's using that to manipulate



Jeremy Greer:
01:04:07
will and to hiding this from them. Hide this from Jack.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:11
Well, because, like, if he murders her future,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:13
then he might as well be murdering her, right? And so,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:15
and we know that will is so attached to Abigail that he



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:19
will, like, he doesn't want to do anything that's going to harm



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:22
her. And we see that actually in the next line where, you know,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:29
Hannibal asks, like, do I need to call my lawyer? Which, I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:35
don't know what I was expecting, but somehow, like, I didn't



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:39
expect, I don't know why, but I was like, Would you really be



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:43
fighting that in court? Like, I don't really believe that, but



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:49
like, I think, I think maybe it's just like, you know, the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:52
set dressing that Hannibal puts on to make Will believe that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:55
this is a decision that he has made, rather than one that he is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:04:59
being coerced into.



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:00
It's the human suit, right? Like, it's because



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:02
we know that he would probably just disappear into the wind. He



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:05
wouldn't call a lawyer and, like, fight in court, but like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:07
the human suit says, Oh, I would. I would need to protect



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:09
myself against legal, criminal action.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:13
Exactly. And it's, I think that that's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:15
because I have a line here that says, I'm amazed at the tension



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:17
in this scene. So good. And I think that's what it is, right?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:22
Because it's, it's not really the lines necessarily. It's the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:26
fact that, like, we know that Hannibal wouldn't be fighting



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:30
this in court. We know that he's coercing will. We know all of



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:36
his real and true intentions. And will doesn't, and that is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:40
the tension. It's that will doesn't know how much danger



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:43
he's actually in. And I feel like that's a recurring thing



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:46
for will. Poor Will.



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:48
Poor will, as the name of the story. Hannibal



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:49
What? What?! WHAT???



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:51
finished this by saying, like, we can tell no one. And then



Marie Vigouroux:
01:05:55
says, and this time in time, this will be the only story any



Jeremy Greer:
01:05:59
So for the book readers out there who think I



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:00
of us cares to tell. And I just want all of the book readers out



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:04
there to remember the end of the book Hannibal, which the series



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:09
is not based on, but, you know, maybe, maybe has some similarities.



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:15
don't see this, I do. It's there. Also want to call



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:19
attention to when Hannibal asked if he needs to call his lawyer,



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:24
will just kind of slowly shakes his head no. And I mentioned



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:28
this earlier, when in the conversation with Alana, where



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:32
she was like, or do you feel unstable? And he like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:34
reluctantly shakes his head yes, not to said yes. Like, it's



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:36
very, very similar. And the way that he just, like, reluctantly



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:40
responds, but kind of wants to, because he feels a connection



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:43
with the person that's asking. So he wants to be honest again,



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:45
where's Beverly? Please. Beverly would be so much better at all



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:48
of this.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:06:50
Like, please take him to get a brain scan?



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:53
What a powerful scene that just, I mean, just



Jeremy Greer:
01:06:56
underlines so much about why I love and hate this show. Because



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:00
it's, it's so delicious, like, it's just and delicious is the



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:03
word I keep coming back to that it's just you just, you just



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:07
feast upon all of this, like tension and irony and drama. And



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:10
I just, I love it so much.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:12
I mean, I just love how understated it is.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:15
Because really, like, it's, it's two men in a room, in a



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:18
beautiful room, right? Like, that's what it is. And and yet,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:22
like, this is the like, there's a totem pole of human parts that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:27
we barely spend a few minutes talking about. And here we are



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:31
spending like, minutes and minutes talking about, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:34
these two men in a room, right? And I just think that that's,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:38
that's the power of Hannibal. It's that, like, yes, some of it



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:42
is grotesque and, like, unforgettable visually, but what



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:46
really hits like the emotional parts of us is the relationships



Marie Vigouroux:
01:07:52
between these characters.



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:53
Absolutely, and that's why I keep coming back to



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:55
like, when you ask people about Hannibal, they don't tell you



Jeremy Greer:
01:07:58
about this episode unless they've truly been Hannibal



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:01
pilled, like most people when they watch Hannibal, nobody,



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:02
Hannibal, they'll tell you about the totem pole or the angel



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:06
wings or whatever, but like, it's, that's because that's



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:08
what's that's what sticks in your brain. And then you watch



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:11
the show, and you're like, oh, that's nothing about that at all



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:12
really matters. So, um, later, Hannibal is serving dinner to



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:19
Freddie, Abigail and will.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:08:22
But I have to say sorry before you start, I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:08:24
have to say that this is my favorite scene of the episode.



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:27
Oh yeah, just right off the top. We're getting



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:29
into it. Okay, hello, yeah.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:08:31
Oh yeah. I'm gonna tell you, like, right



Marie Vigouroux:
01:08:34
there.



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:34
So that sets the stage like we're and Hannibal is



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:38
bringing out a plate for Freddie, who, turns out, is



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:40
vegetarian, and he just, I think Hannibal says something like, I



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:44
had no idea. I would have never thought.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:08:48
So. Is it bad that I was like, damn it.



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:50
A little, yeah, a little. You did say earlier in



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:54
this episode that you could excuse cannibalism. I just want



Jeremy Greer:
01:08:57
you to know that.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:08:59
I can, I can, in this context I can.



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:02
And now you're like, Oh, dang, he didn't get to



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:04
feed human meat to somebody



Marie Vigouroux:
01:09:06
I know. I'm like, this is like, truly, is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:09:09
this what it means to be Hannibal pilled?



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:13
100% 100%



Marie Vigouroux:
01:09:14
Okay, officially, it's official.



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:16
This is a, this is a tense dinner as well, because



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:18
will and Freddie are kind of sparring over verbally sparring



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:21
over what the truth is and how to use it. And Freddie says



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:26
that, you know, she wants to tell Abigail's version of the



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:28
truth. And you know, Abigail says, like, I have no secrets to



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:33
hide. And Freddie's like, no, everybody's got secrets. And



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:36
during this conversation, I think Hannibal chimes into the



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:39
end here that everybody just wants to protect Abigail.



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:42
Several things happen in this conversation. The first that is,



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:45
as will is talking to Freddie, he's doing this thing that



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:49
Hannibal does, and it's like using double speak to talk to



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:51
Abigail. And Abigail realizes that will knows her secrets, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:09:55
then, and then Abigail takes a bite. Of her whatever meal this



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:02
is. I forget the name of it.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:03
It's actually I found it because I was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:06
that looks delicious. It's roasted tenderloin with



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:09
pomegranate blood splatter.



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:10
Yes, thank you. She takes a plate, she takes a



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:13
little bite of her tenderloin, and her eyes just flash over to



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:19
Hannibal in a moment that I am just fascinated with. I love



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:23
this so much.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:26
Okay, didn't I say that she would recognize the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:29
taste of human flesh? That was one of the first things that I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:32
said when I saw Hannibal cooking for her. I was like, this girl



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:36
has been fed human meat. She knows, she knows what it tastes



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:40
like and there we go, and there we go. And I just felt so



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:44
vindicated. I think I screamed. I was like, yes!



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:47
So, I asked you this at the top of the episode,



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:49
does it does it feel good to be right? Does it feel good?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:53
Oh, it feels so good. That felt so good. Also, I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:55
just want to highlight that this is the first time that will



Marie Vigouroux:
01:10:57
comes to one of Hannibal's dinner parties.



Jeremy Greer:
01:10:59
Yeah, it's the first time he said at the table,



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:01
right? Like we've seen him eat but, this is the first time that



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:03
he's actually sat down at the table.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:05
I feel like this is also like, I don't know,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:08
I don't know if, but it kind of shows that, like, Will has like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:12
because it was last episode or the episode before where he,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:15
like, refuses to go to the two episodes ago where he refuses to



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:19
sit at the table. He's like, no, no, take this bottle of wine and



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:22
I'm gonna go and I gonna go and smile at you awkwardly. And



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:26
whereas here, he's like, accepting this probably because



Marie Vigouroux:
01:11:29
now they're partners in crime, right?



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:31
Absolutely. Yeah. Also, I just want to note I had



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:35
to go. I just put the episode on so I could find this out. This



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:38
is also the first time that he's dressed appropriately for



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:40
Hannibal's office, like he's got a button up shirt, he's got like



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:43
an actual sport coat on, like it's, he's not in his normal,



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:46
like, outer wear or anything. So again, I just think that's kind



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:51
of shows a conformity, almost like now that he's now that he's



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:54
embraced Hannibal, and he knows this, like he's kind of not



Jeremy Greer:
01:11:57
necessarily becoming him, but like, you know, losing some of



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:00
himself in this process, which is probably exactly what



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:03
Hannibal wants.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:05
Oh, that phrasing, Jeremy.



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:07
Sorry. Sorry, sorry.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:11
You're right. You're absolutely right. I think



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:13
that's exactly what's going on. And he's like, yeah, like you



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:16
said, losing parts of himself and embracing more and more of



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:18
Hannibal's world. Little does he know what Hannibal's world



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:22
actually means?



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:23
And you know, let's take this back to the



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:26
boundary crossing, right? Like, this is, this is him crossing



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:29
boundaries that he wouldn't normally having, you know, be



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:31
associated with the FBI, not necessarily an agent, but like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:34
he wouldn't normally do this kind of thing. Like Hannibal has



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:37
pushed him to do this.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:40
And he wouldn't also, like, as silly as it



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:42
sounds, but he wouldn't sit at a fancy dinner party, like, for



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:47
any reason, right? Like, he's made that pretty clear. And so



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:49
already, like, this is being pushed, this is being challenged



Marie Vigouroux:
01:12:52
for him in so many ways, right? And Freddie



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:57
And Freddie has the last line here, which is



Jeremy Greer:
01:12:58
great, where she says, this is a - The salad is amazing. It's a



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:00
shame to ruin it with all of that meat. And I like that



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:04
phrase. I like this phrase a lot because obviously, like, the



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:06
meat is the - to her, it takes away from the salad to the



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:12
table. It can mean several different things, right? Like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:15
it's for Abigail and Hannibal we know. Like, it's a shame to ruin



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:19
it with all that meat. Like, it's a shame to have all of



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:21
these bodies on the table, like it's a shame to have all of this



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:23
baggage and then to will. It's like it's a literal body that



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:27
they're hiding. And it's just, again, I could be reading in too



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:31
much to this one little sentence, but it just, it just



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:33
feels so heavy. It feels so heavy with like metaphor that I



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:36
just, I have to talk about it.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:13:39
I don't think you're reading too much into it



Marie Vigouroux:
01:13:40
at all. I think that this show is exactly the kind of show that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:13:43
would put this little innocuous line and expect us to dig into



Marie Vigouroux:
01:13:47
it.



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:50
We jump ahead of time. Abigail and Hannibal are



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:53
washing dishes, and Abigail says, Will knows. And Hannibal's



Jeremy Greer:
01:13:56
like, yes, he knows, but it's okay. He's lied to Jack Crawford



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:00
about you, just as he's lied to himself. And we see her start to



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:05
have this kind of mental dam break as she starts feeling



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:12
stuff. And Hannibal walks over, he can sense this, and says,



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:15
you're free. No one will know the truth that you're trying to



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:19
avoid, the one you cannot admit, even to yourself. And her whole



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:25
face and body almost collapsed as she confesses, I helped him



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:29
and Hannibal. Hannibal, evil, evil. Hannibal says, I can't



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:33
hear you, and so she has to, like, gird herself and say it



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:36
louder. And it turns out that she was the one, after all, who



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:41
found these girls for her father, who befriended them and



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:45
found out where they lived and led him to them to kill them.



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:50
And this was, I think, a question throughout the last



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:52
nine episodes, and it's obviously been confirmed here



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:55
that she was a part. She knew what was happening the whole



Jeremy Greer:
01:14:58
time. And. Uh, which, again, going back to like, like, if



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:03
she's probably doing this over a year, so as a as a minor, even



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:06
if she's not necessarily a minor. Now, child abuse, very



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:10
minimum, right? Like, oh, awful, awful, awful, and probably



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:15
shouldn't be held responsible for that. I think there's



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:17
probably, you know, there's a lot of stuff, if you applied



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:20
real world rules to this, but just from our perspective on the



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:23
show, like it's, it's a confession, and it almost brings



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:26
her and Hannibal closer, which is just fucking terrifying,



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:30
right? Yeah, um.



Jeremy Greer:
01:15:38
I love that pregnant pause.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:15:40
Because, I think because, like, I wanted to



Marie Vigouroux:
01:15:43
get my thoughts down for this, because I didn't want to, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:15:45
ramble about it too much, and I think I rewrote it like three or



Marie Vigouroux:
01:15:52
four times yesterday, but like, she says that she couldn't say



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:03
no to her dad because she knew that it was them or her, right?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:07
And I this is where I kind of want to come back to this idea



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:11
of surviving here, because I think that it's very important



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:15
Abigail did really, really horrible things in order to



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:18
survive. I talked, I think a few like the episode where they go



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:24
back to her house about how I'm pretty sure that she had to do,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:28
she had to learn to survive in that house. And I cannot believe



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:32
how right I was without that. But then again, like, I think



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:37
that's why, like, I think I always sensed that this was the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:42
truth, but I just didn't want to kind of go there. I was like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:45
Oh, they're not gonna go there are they. But of course, of



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:47
course, this is this kind of show, right? So I wasn't, I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:51
guess I wasn't really surprised to find out that she helped her



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:54
dad. I think maybe, like, Will. I just didn't really want to see



Marie Vigouroux:
01:16:58
it. And I was also really, really mad that Jack was right



Marie Vigouroux:
01:17:01
all along. Like, like, legit. I think I was more mad that Jack



Marie Vigouroux:
01:17:05
was right than, like, sad to find out that Abigail did those



Marie Vigouroux:
01:17:09
things. Because I was like, ah, yeah, that tracks for Abigail,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:17:12
actually.



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:13
It's um, like, for all of Jack's manipulations and



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:17
for all of Jack's borderline abuse of will, and like the



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:21
people around him and the things that he put his his students in



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:25
right like when we talk about Miriam, he's still a good cop,



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:31
so like it that's proven over and over again, like last



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:34
episode, when he walked into Hannibal's office after in the



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:37
aftermath of Tobias and Tobias - the Tobias attack



Marie Vigouroux:
01:17:42
and Franklin



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:43
Franklin. Thank you. I was thinking Francine on



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:45
the brain because hurricane Francine just happened. I was



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:48
like, of course, that's not right.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:17:50
That's, that's his drag name.



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:51
That's his drag name, absolutely. He even said,



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:54
like, something smells differently here. Like, this



Jeremy Greer:
01:17:57
doesn't feel simple to me. And it's, it's, it's just kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:00
obnoxious that he's good at his job, while also being like this,



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:03
this bad. And to kind of finish this scene, she begins to cry.



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:08
Hannibal comforts her like she literally cries in his arms. And



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:12
he like whispers, like I wondered when you would tell me.



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:14
And she says that I'm a monster. And he says, No, I know what



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:18
monsters are, will and I are going to protect you. It's



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:22
awful. It's so terrifying that he would do this. It's so scary



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:27
like that, you would have this really impressionable woman who



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:32
has been through literal abuse and who has had to live with



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:38
what she has done and what her father has done, and had to



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:39
relive it, probably in the papers over and over again, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:42
had to, you know, kill herself for the first time, to actually



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:46
kill somebody herself, not kill herself. And have to hide that,



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:50
and then to go through Jack Crawford's questioning and all



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:52
of that stuff just kind of breaks and comes out as he's



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:55
holding her just absolutely cement in the idea that, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:18:58
he's her father now. And Bryan fuller even had a point. But



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:03
like throughout this episode, this is what Hannibal is wanting



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:05
to do. Is wanted to create this family around him, to create



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:10
that Abigail and will and he are different than everyone else,



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:13
and he wants to pull them together to see their



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:15
differences, to be able to allow them to live with themselves for



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:18
who they are and not who they want to be. And the whole idea



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:21
is just, frankly, just an awful little murder family. And I love



Jeremy Greer:
01:19:26
it, and I hate it. It's just, it's just so scary.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:19:31
can kind of say that like he, like you said,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:19:37
he's the one who wants to create this family, this murder family.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:19:46
And I, as, as bad as I feel about will, who is being coerced



Marie Vigouroux:
01:19:50
into doing these things, like Will is a grown adult, right?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:19:53
Like, perhaps one who is vulnerable, right? We can



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:01
definitely say that for a lot of reasons, he is a vulnerable



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:04
adult, but he's an adult, whereas Abigail, like is is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:09
like, she's still so young, and she is still like, at the mercy



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:16
of this man who you know, she says, like, one of her first



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:21
realizations is, like, you're just like my dad and like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:24
that's exactly what it is, because, like, was Garrett Jacob



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:27
Hobbs also not trying to create his own little murder family,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:31
right? And I just feel so much for Abigail, and I think that's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:39
me projecting, right? Because it there's like, as you know, like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:43
the Abigail storyline, like, hits me, like, right in the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:46
feels, like, I've said that before, and I just I hate that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:50
she's being manipulated, like, to lie for her father, to lie to



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:55
other people, and that creates, like, a situation where you



Marie Vigouroux:
01:20:58
can't create real relationships with others when you're



Marie Vigouroux:
01:21:03
constantly having to lie about the things that you've done.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:21:06
Like it's just like, you know, he says that will would murder



Marie Vigouroux:
01:21:12
her future if he told the truth. But the reality is that he's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:21:17
already murdered her future by making her lie about herself,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:21:23
right?



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:24
And about her, specifically about her kill -



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:26
her killing Nick. Because the moment that it happens, she's



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:29
she says, you know, it was self defense. And he goes, No, this



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:32
wasn't self defense. Like they won't look at it that way, like



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:34
he forces her into a lie and literally murders her future,



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:38
right? Like just literally crosses that boundary as we keep



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:41
going back to of forcing her into to live this lie that she



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:44
has to then pretend is, is okay, right? Like she has to pretend



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:49
that it didn't happen, to the point where she's, like, pulling



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:51
bodies out of the ground to try to get past the trauma that she



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:55
lives with, to get past all of this weight. And it's, it's very



Jeremy Greer:
01:21:58
terrifying. Like, it's, it's, if Hannibal is capable of doing



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:00
this? Like, what else is he capable of? Right? Like, that's,



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:03
that's the question we have to ask ourselves. And I think we'll



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:06
probably find out of the next three episodes, Mary.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:10
oh, my God, is there only three episodes left?



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:12
There's only three episodes left, my friends, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:15
we're gonna be, we're gonna be finished with Season One. And



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:17
like, people are not gonna even listen to Season Five yet. Like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:19
or Episode Five yet is going to be crazy.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:22
Oh, wow. You know, sometimes, just because,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:25
like, there were a few things on there that I was like, I kind of



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:28
wonder, I the number of times that I have, like, held myself



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:33
back from peeping into, like, the monster of the week server,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:36
like the rude eats spoilers channel, or because I am like, I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:40
want to know what people are saying about, like, my crazy



Marie Vigouroux:
01:22:44
like antics.



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:46
Well, I can, I can reassure you, if there's



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:48
anything in there that's specifically about the podcast,



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:51
that's not spoiler, if I'm sharing it with you, mostly



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:54
because people, like, like, one person today was like, Oh, I'm



Jeremy Greer:
01:22:57
watching the last episode. And then just came back and was



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:00
like, whoa. Everyone's like, yes, yes, yes. We know we've



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:04
been so it's a lot of actual spoilers, but the actual root



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:07
each channel, the non spoiler one, is really, really good.



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:09
People are talking about, like us talking about the podcast



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:12
there. So you're good.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:14
It's a lot of fun, actually, to be honest with



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:16
Yeah. It's a good amount of fun. Do you have any



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:16
you.



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:21
thoughts before we go into our review? Our review section? I



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:23
think I'm just we talk about it every time when we get to the



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:27
end of the episode where we're both just like, emotionally



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:29
drained about Hannibal. So I don't have any thoughts before



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:32
we get into our review setion.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:35
No, I'm just not entirely sure that we talked



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:37
about the last scene on the train.



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:39
Oh, we did. We forgot. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:42
No it's fine. Well, it's because there was an



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:44
interruption that people probably won't hear, but my



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:48
audio disconnected entirely. So that's why we were not thinking



Marie Vigouroux:
01:23:51
about this.



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:52
Yeah, we have a last scene. It's all in black



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:54
and white, which is what Hannibal uses to denote like



Jeremy Greer:
01:23:57
past activities. And Abigail is on a train with her father, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:01
they are literally scoping out victims. And she sees somebody



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:04
that looks quite a bit like herself, like young, long,



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:06
straight hair, brown hair. And she goes over to meet her and to



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:10
talk about, talk to her. And we see Garrett Jacob Hobbs sitting



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:13
there, kind of watching them and looking away and smiling in a



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:18
very, very creepy way. And yeah, but this is just further



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:21
underlying the fact that she she legitimately, like, recruited



Jeremy Greer:
01:24:25
victims for her father. Just very terrifying.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:27
And this is something that Nick accused her



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:31
of, right? When he confronted her, he's like, You were the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:33
bait, right? You made friends with them. And I remember at the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:37
time thinking, like, that's never been mentioned before. How



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:40
would he know that? And then I that's kind of what alerted



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:46
like, the red flags went up where I was like, Oh man, he



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:49
knows like, and I think he might be right about that, right? And



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:52
the thing is, like, Nick was not a likable character because he,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:55
like, was helping Freddie Lowndes, and just because he was



Marie Vigouroux:
01:24:58
so angry and whatnot. There were a lot of reasons why people



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:01
would have disliked him. He was an antagonist. But he was right,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:05
you know, he he was right about that.



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:07
Well, and I don't know if you remember, but the



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:10
person that got him all hyped up about that right was him - was



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:15
him meeting Freddie Lowndes, the person that wants to write



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:17
Abigail's story. And again, scumbag, scumbag behavior,



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:21
absolute scumbag behavior. Love, we love, we love our witchy



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:25
redheads in these shows, but also scumbag behavior.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:29
Such scumbag behavior, that's the thing.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:32
Yeah. So for final thoughts, I mean, like I said, I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:35
really have any thoughts. The only thing that I will say is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:37
that I'm terrified of the next episode because it's called



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:39
Buffet Froid, which is literally cold buffet, which, in a show



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:43
like Hannibal, is absolutely terrifying.



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:46
Oh, is that what that means?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:25:48
Yes.



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:49
Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating.



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:53
Obviously, I was gonna look that up. We're probably gonna watch



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:56
the episode this weekend, because I'm super excited about



Jeremy Greer:
01:25:58
Hannibal right now, so we're probably definitely gonna watch



Jeremy Greer:
01:26:00
it. I that is okay, cool. Let's go to reviews.



Jeremy Greer:
01:26:36
Why don't you start us off Mary?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:26:39
Of course. Oh, my God. Why did I agree to do



Marie Vigouroux:
01:26:44
this? Why am I putting myself through all this? Okay!



Jeremy Greer:
01:26:47
And why are you having so much fun about it,



Jeremy Greer:
01:26:49
right?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:26:49
Like, why am I liking it so much?



Jeremy Greer:
01:26:52
Why am I liking all of this misery? I don't



Jeremy Greer:
01:26:54
know. It's so hard.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:26:55
It's kind of like Will, where he's like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:26:57
hating, like he's hating being in cahoots with Hannibal, but at



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:02
the same time, it like gets him going. You know, he's like, Oh,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:05
I love this anyway. I guess we'll see that eventually,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:08
because for sure, it has to happen. So I will give this



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:11
episode four stars, because with its sweet and sour apple flavor,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:15
this trou Normand offered many unexpectedly icy twists to this



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:20
season, leaving me hungry for more.



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:22
And I'll also give it four stars, so as a



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:25
deceptively simple flavor, hiding all sorts of secrets



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:27
within, this trou Normand highlighted the previous courses



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:31
and set the stage for the meal to come.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:34
Oh yes, so true.



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:35
Thank you everybody for listening. Thank



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:38
you to all of the people leaving ratings reviews on Apple podcast



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:41
and for commenting on the episodes on Spotify. Again, I'll



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:45
mention I'm responding to all of those. So if you, if you wrote



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:48
something, more than likely, I've at least liked it. For some



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:51
reason, some reason, you can't like and comment, but I try to



Jeremy Greer:
01:27:54
comment or like all of them, so we're talking back to you.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:27:57
You can't like and comment, that's such a weird



Marie Vigouroux:
01:28:00
-



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:00
You can't, yeah, if you like it, it automatically



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:02
publishes it. And then I haven't figured out a way to comment on



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:04
it after that. And if you comment, you then publish it.



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:08
And I haven't, like, my it's Spotify, so weird. Like, I have



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:12
a separate Spotify account for podcast stuff that's not like



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:15
the one that I used to listen to music. So like, I can't, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:17
just go into the app and, like, see stuff like, as as monster of



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:21
the week, or as as Rude Eats, right? Like I have to anyway,



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:24
it's, it's a, it's a weird situation. Thank you everybody



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:26
for commenting. That's what I'm coming back to.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:28:28
Yeah, thank you for the comments. I actually



Marie Vigouroux:
01:28:30
really love them every time, every time you send a screenshot



Marie Vigouroux:
01:28:33
of them to me, I'm like, Oh, thank you guys!



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:36
The one this morning that someone and their



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:37
mom are watching the show together and listening to the



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:39
podcast is very, very, very dear to my heart. So thank you



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:44
everybody for listening. It's, it's so great. And it's, it's



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:47
means a lot to us, especially as a podcast that we're just doing



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:51
for fun. There's no There's no ads, there's no Patreon, there's



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:53
no there's no kofi. So let's tell everybody where we can be



Jeremy Greer:
01:28:57
found on the internet. Where are you nowadays?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:01
Well again, unfortunately, still on Twitter



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:04
@maryturner_. You can also find my carrying wayward podcast



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:09
about supernatural at carryingwayward.com and you can



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:12
find my our flag means death podcast at the gentleman pirates



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:17
library on Twitter and anywhere you listen to podcasts. What



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:21
about you, Jeremy?



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:21
I would highly recommend both of those shows,



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:23
by the way. You can find me on Twitter @jggreer. You can find



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:27
all of my podcasts about X Files, supernatural, Merlin,



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:31
cowboy, bebop, Game of Thrones, just about everything I'm doing,



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:34
all of the TV shows now



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:35
all of them, just all of them.



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:37
This is coming out - Oh, this is coming out way



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:39
after Halloween. So never mind, we've already, we've already



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:42
released all of our Halloween stuff. So if you, if you want to



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:45
lisen to -



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:45
But go check it out. There's a lot of Halloween



Marie Vigouroux:
01:29:47
stuff that's gonna be coming out, apparently.



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:48
Yeah, we drank three beers and talked over



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:52
Twilight with Chris, and that was an experience. So go listen



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:56
to that. And again. Thank you for listening until the next



Jeremy Greer:
01:29:59
episode. Bon appetit.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:30:01
Bon appetit, everybody.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:30:21
Jeremy, I'm so scared.



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:25
You're gonna come home exhausted tomorrow from the



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:28
from the 5k and be like, alright, this is the time when



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:31
all of my defenses are low. This is the time.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:30:33
Oh no. I think I'm gonna watch it today,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:30:35
because now I'm so scared. I'm so fucking scared right now.



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:40
It's intense. It's intense. It's one of my favorite



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:42
guest stars.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:30:45
Oh, who's guesting.



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:47
It's the it's the main star from Dead Like Me,



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:50
which I've mentioned to you a couple times, which is another



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:52
Bryan fuller show. So fun when they talked about Miriam Lass



Jeremy Greer:
01:30:59
being like the little sister to Georgia Lass and Dead Like Me.



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:02
This is the person that played Georgia Lass in Dead Like Me.



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:06
So, and there's no relation. There's no actual relation. It's



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:08
all just, like, you know, it's just all like, referential



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:11
stuff, like, there's no actual, like, lore or anything. It's



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:13
just that character.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:31:16
But it's Bryan fuller cinematic universe.



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:17
Exactly. Yeah.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:31:18
BFCU.



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:18
BFCU. Yeah 100% dude. I wonder what that dude is



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:23
doing nowadays. I don't know that he's done anything.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:31:25
I don't know.



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:27
But



Marie Vigouroux:
01:31:29
what has he done since Hannibal?



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:31
Yeah, I know he did the monsters remake. Oh,



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:38
American Gods. I forgot about American Gods, because there was



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:41
the weirdness after American Gods, like, the first season was



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:45
really, really good. Boy, you want to talk about a role for



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:49
Gillian Anderson. Holy shit. That's very but then, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:31:55
American Gods, apparently, Star Trek Discovery,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:31:58
oh wow.



Jeremy Greer:
01:31:59
It looks like it's about it. I didn't, I didn't



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:02
watch Star Trek Discovery. I'm not, like, a huge Star Trek guy,



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:05
like, I like it, and I've watched a bunch of it, but I'm



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:07
not like.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:16
Okay, sorry. I just saw it because I Googled



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:19
Bryan Fuller and, like, something comes up, and I'm just



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:21
like, Oh no, tell me, No, tell me, that's not true. But I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:24
know I'm gonna read the article, because I'm like, I don't, yeah,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:28
like, I don't love that.



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:30
Yeah, it's a lot. It's a Yeah, yeah. Enjoy. Yeah.



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:37
The next episode, it's going to be a lot of fun. And I'm curious



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:39
what's your feelings about it, and, yeah, it's going to be



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:43
intense. So enjoy it.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:44
You know, I'm really scared because when I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:46
said, Buffet Froid, is cold buffet, like you were, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:32:49
fascinating. I don't want this to be fascinating.



Jeremy Greer:
01:32:54
It's, I can't wait to watch the episode tonight.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:05
I'm so excited. I want to know what Autumn



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:07
thinks about it, too. I'm very excited about that.



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:09
I'll defenitely let you know. I hope you have a



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:13
good day, and if I I'm sure I'll talk to you between them, but



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:15
good luck on the 5k and I'm sure you'll do great.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:18
Thank you. I'm just hoping to make it before



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:20
the cutoff time. Like, that's all I'm hoping. And I just don't



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:23
know that I'm gonna be able to because I'm not feeling my at



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:26
the top of my shape. And I am very slow. I'm a slow runner. So



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:29
it is what it is. But there you go.



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:31
We were watching, there's this, like, murder



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:35
mystery show on Netflix called the perfect couple. It's kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:37
like a, it's almost like a glass oniony White Lotus kind of show,



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:42
but, like, not quite as good as either one of those. And there



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:45
was a girl like that went on a run for a beach and, like, it



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:47
was so obvious. This actress has never run in her life before,



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:50
like, because Autumn was, like, that's how I run. Like, that's



Jeremy Greer:
01:33:53
not good.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:56
It's really hard to run on a beach, by the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:33:57
way. Like, the sand is really, like, makes it particularly



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:00
hard, but yeah, all right, I am gonna go and watch the next



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:05
episode.



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:07
Excellent. Podcast for two hours about the show,



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:09
and then immediately, immediately watch the Next one.



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:12
I love it. Have a great day.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:18
Bye.



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:35
I like that idea, though. Just like our language



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:37
is better than yours, even if you even if your words are fine,



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:39
we're gonna, we're gonna dress it up a little bit like we



Jeremy Greer:
01:34:41
gotta, we gotta keep going.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:43
I mean, it's because, like, historically,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:44
Quebec is kind of like in a weird space, like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:48
geopolitically, right, like it's, it's in a very English



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:52
speaking continent, surrounded by a lot of English speakers,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:34:57
and so for a long, long time, like when you were French in



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:01
Quebec, you couldn't get, like, you couldn't get the same jobs



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:05
that you could if you spoke English, you know, like, there



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:07
was definitely, like, a class system associated with that, and



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:10
like, the lower class people were definitely the French



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:13
people. So there was, like, this effort by the government at one



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:19
point to be like, No, French is our language, and there will be



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:22
none of that like discrimination. And so they like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:25
put in a bunch of rules, and then they just really went



Marie Vigouroux:
01:35:28
overboard.



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:30
Oh, wow, that's interesting. Yeah, that's kind



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:32
of fascinating. I have a friend that lives in Quebec, an



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:35
internet not like a real friend, like an internet friend, but



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:38
like an internet friend that I've known for probably a decade



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:40
at this point. So it seems weird not a real friend, and he



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:44
comments from time to time about the the francification of Quebec



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:49
and kind of how sometimes it can be kind of annoying, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:52
sometimes it can be weird geopolitically, like you said.



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:54
So most of the times he just posts about video games, though,



Jeremy Greer:
01:35:57
so I don't get a lot.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:36:00
Well, that's the thing. Like, I just, I don't



Marie Vigouroux:
01:36:02
know it's, I find it super weird because, like, who the fuck



Marie Vigouroux:
01:36:06
cares if you use podcast instead of baladodiffusion? Like that is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:36:09
not, like, one thing that's gonna make the language



Marie Vigouroux:
01:36:11
disappear, right?



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:12
I'm just, you know, there's an effort down



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:14
here to maintain Cajun French, because it's, it's, it's



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:19
something that's dying out pretty quickly, although, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:23
you can go to the one was at the library the other day and was



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:26
like, she was texting me, so, like, there's these two old



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:28
people in the line in front of me, and I just, they're just



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:31
full on Cajun French, like, I cannot understand the word that



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:34
they're saying, and it was, and it's a really, like, it's a



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:37
charming thing, but it's and they, you Know, Like we teach



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:41
French in high school down here, I think to try to maintain some



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:44
of that, but it's one of those things that just like, if you



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:47
don't grow up with it, like you don't do you just don't grow up



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:50
with it, so you don't, it's hard to get into like I would feel



Jeremy Greer:
01:36:52
very so there's a thing down here Where Cajuns say SHA, or



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:00
SHA, like, sha babe. And with a Cajun accent, it like it's



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:05
perfectly normal, like, you know, I'm gonna, you know, sha



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:11
babe or whatever, but it's become such a thing, like, the



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:15
people have lost their accents. Autumn was complaining about



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:17
this. It's like, I'd hate when I hear these valley girl accents,



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:19
say sha babe. It just doesn't make any sense.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:25
Oh, wow, that's too funny.



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:26
Yeah, it's kind of funny living in South Louisiana



Jeremy Greer:
01:37:29
sometimes.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:32
And I mean, that's the thing. I feel like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:34
you know, if you wanted to be a champion for the French language



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:39
in North America, like, I think that makes complete sense,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:41
especially for those regions like it, like, I can't really



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:45
speak to, oh my goodness, what's happening with my voice. But



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:48
like, I can't really speak to what's happening in Louisiana,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:50
right? Like, with French, because I don't, I'm not there,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:52
but I know that, like in certain communities in like rural



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:56
Ontario or Manitoba, like, there's a lot of people who



Marie Vigouroux:
01:37:59
speak French and who don't receive the same services



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:03
because they don't like the services are not in French in



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:06
that part of Canada, right? Whereas, like in Quebec, they've



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:08
made it like they're a point to offer everything in French, and



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:12
so much so that they won't offer certain services in English,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:14
which is kind of like, completely besides the point.



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:17
Yeah, yeah. No, no, that's, that's awful. I



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:20
mean, I mean, just like, well -



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:21
There you go, one way or another, right? Like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:23
if, if you're not just, if you're not serving your



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:26
population in the language that they need to be served, then,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:28
like, What the fuck are you doing as the government, right?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:30
Like, and for both.



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:32
This just, it just smacks of, like, you know, you



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:35
need to speak English in this country or whatever. And like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:37
no, no, you don't. You can speak whatever, like, what you want to



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:42
exactly. People always forget about the melting pot. They



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:45
just, they just assume we were gumbo all along. That's not



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:48
true. I love that a lot of a lot of individual flavors went into



Jeremy Greer:
01:38:54
this, this whole pot situation.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:55
Exactly, and especially in Canada, because we



Marie Vigouroux:
01:38:58
don't have a melting pot policy. We have a different kind of of



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:01
policy, which is multiculturalism, which is



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:03
basically like anybody can, well, that's not true, but like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:09
anybody can come and live here and you can keep your your



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:11
culture, because we are a multicultural country. We're not



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:14
a melting pot, right? It's not. We're not. We don't all become



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:17
one culture with all of our cultures. Like, it's, it stays



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:21
pretty, like everybody keeps their culture when they come to



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:25
Canada. Obviously, when they talk about that, they don't talk



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:29
about the fact that, like, our immigration is so selective that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:31
basically only certain people can come here, right? We don't



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:35
talk about that. That's a big shhhhh we don't like to talk



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:39
about it, right?



Jeremy Greer:
01:39:43
Nobody, nobody talk about the obvious things.



Jeremy Greer:
01:39:45
That's cool.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:45
Yes, exactly nobody talk about the stuff that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:47
we don't want to talk about. Like, for a very long time,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:50
actually, Canada's immigration policy stated that people from



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:54
certain countries were just not suited to winter and therefore



Marie Vigouroux:
01:39:57
were not granted entry.



Jeremy Greer:
01:39:58
Okay, sure, sure. Sure, sure, sure.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:40:01
I will let you guess what exactly that meant in



Marie Vigouroux:
01:40:04
practical terms,



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:06
I can absolutely see that, probably that white



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:10
dudes from North America, I bet, I bet that wasn't bad.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:40:12
There you go. Yeah, that's fine, right?



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:15
Man, politics is a system. It's It's never good.



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:18
It's just like, we've gotten better, but we haven't really



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:20
gotten like, Great. I'm reading. I'm actually watching and



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:26
reading the expanse right now, which is a science fiction



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:30
series. People call it like Game of Thrones in space. But unlike



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:34
Game of Thrones, there's not like, a lot of sexual violence



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:36
or anything. So it's a little bit easier to read.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:40:39
I was actually gonna be, like, is there as much



Marie Vigouroux:
01:40:41
sexual violence?



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:44
As far as I know, there's none, like, there's



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:46
like, casual mentions of, like, crimes, but there's no, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:48
graphic depictions or anything. But it's interesting because



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:52
they there's kind of like three geopolitical parties, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:55
there's Earth, there's the colonies on Mars, and then



Jeremy Greer:
01:40:58
there's the Belters. And the thing I found fascinating about



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:01
the Belters who live on, like this asteroid belt, like in



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:04
space, mining materials for the inners, the inner planets, is



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:08
that they have in space, like, over time, over 100 years or so,



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:12
like, they've gotten taller. Their bones have extended, their



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:17
they can't they can't deal with 1g weight very well, things like



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:20
that, like, they've adapted. So it creates this, like, almost



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:23
like, like, Are you a different species, kind of racism, kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:25
thing. And the books deal with it like, as it is, right? Like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:30
they present this thing and like characters react to it, or have



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:33
different opinions, or whatever. And it's just, it's just really



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:35
fascinating, like, the way that it all kind of gels together and



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:38
everything. So it's also fun reading and watching a show at



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:42
the same time.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:41:45
You mean, kind of like what you did with



Marie Vigouroux:
01:41:47
Hannibal? Reading and watching and everything?



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:50
Where I binge three books between Episode One



Jeremy Greer:
01:41:52
and two.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:41:56
Oh my God, by the way, I completely skipped



Marie Vigouroux:
01:41:58
the whole like you guys talking about long legs. I was like, Am



Marie Vigouroux:
01:42:02
I allowed to listen to this? I don't know.



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:05
We spoil it pretty heavily, so you probably want to



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:07
watch the movie for beforehand. But yeah, if it's, it's, it's



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:12
such an interesting movie because it's very it's obviously



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:16
homage to silence of the lambs, right? Like, it pays off.



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:18
There's a jack Crawford, like, there's a, there's a guy that is



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:21
Jack Crawford in that movie, which is just fascinating to me,



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:25
but also, at the same time, it's, it's got some, it's got



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:29
some real spooky vibes, like, and people talked about it like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:33
Nicolas Cage's performance was, like, camp or whatever. And I



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:38
just, I don't, I don't know if you've seen, like, the previews



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:39
or anything, where he's, like, all in this, like, weird makeup



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:41
or whatever, but it's, it's an intense performance, and I



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:44
didn't get camp out of it at all. Like, I just got, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:47
terrifying psycho killer vibes.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:42:52
We have different definitions of camp.



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:54
I got saved the other day about tick tock. I had



Jeremy Greer:
01:42:58
been looking forward to a horror movie, trying to remember the



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:01
name of it now. I was looking forward to it so much I can't



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:03
remember the name. Oh no, but I saw the preview, and Brandy was



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:07
in it, like the singer Brandy. And I was like, Oh well, this



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:11
is, I haven't seen Brandy in like forever. This is going to



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:13
be great. And it's a, like, it looks like a cool, like, kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:15
spooky horror movie kind of situation. And then a reviewer



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:19
that I follow on Tiktok was like, hey, so I followed this. I



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:22
just have question, one question, why is there so much



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:25
poop in this? And I was like, Okay, well, I'm out. Like, don't



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:30
need, don't need this in my life whatsoever.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:43:34
Oh no.



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:35
Yeah. Just don't understand, why?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:43:38
Why?



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:39
Yeah, I don't know. I don't Yeah, and like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:42
she, she went on to, like, get it was, it was a lot, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:46
Okay, this is not, this is not me at all. I can't do it.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:43:50
Like, even listening to the review about



Marie Vigouroux:
01:43:52
this is grossing me out. I'm good.



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:54
Just, there's certain things, like in horror



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:56
movies, that I just, you know, I don't really, particularly like



Jeremy Greer:
01:43:59
torture porn stuff, like just gratuitous killing, for killing



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:03
sake, when it's like, hyper realistic, like, give me a



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:06
slasher movie any day. I watched a ridiculous slasher movie the



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:10
other day where the kill was like, this dude shoves his hand



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:13
through somebody's chest from the back, puts a hook on their



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:17
head from the front, and literally pulls their whole body



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:21
through the hole of the chest. Like it was the most over the



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:23
top, ridiculous, impossible thing you've ever seen. Like, it



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:25
doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but I was cheering



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:27
the entire time because I was like, Oh, this is this is



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:30
ridiculous. Like, this is impossible.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:34
At that point, you might as well, right? It's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:36
like, okay, all right, let's just forget everything about



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:38
physics and medicine and let's just enjoy this ridiculous



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:41
movie.



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:42
Yeah, just, let's just have some fun.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:43
I love it.



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:44
Yeah, I'm just gonna bug me that I can't the



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:46
front room is the brandy movie with, apparently, too much poop,



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:48
so watch out



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:50
the front room?



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:51
Front room, yeah, it's got Brandy's face on the



Jeremy Greer:
01:44:53
cover. Like, you can't miss it. It's a horror movie.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:44:58
okay, well, thank you for telling me. I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:00
wasn't gonna watch it, and I'm not gonna watch it now.



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:03
And you've got, you've got Jazz Fest playing



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:05
outside your house this weekend.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:06
Blues Fest, Yes, blues fest. It's, it's,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:11
yeah. So it's actually been a lot of fun. Like, every year,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:14
I'm like, oh my god, blues fest is coming up. It's gonna be so



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:16
much fun. And then at like, 11 o'clock at night, when I'm in



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:19
bed trying to see blues fest is playing. I'm like, Oh no, it's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:22
blues fest again, exactly.



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:26
I have friends that live kind of around the



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:28
area they do Jazz Fest every year, and it's a similar



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:30
situation where they like, invite you over, like a party,



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:33
and then like, we leave, but they have to stay all night.



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:36
Jazz Fest goes almost all night.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:40
yeah, luckily here, like, they have, they



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:42
can't go past 11. Like, that's the, the maximum that they can



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:44
go, Yeah, well, I mean, we're, I'm right next to, like, an old



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:49
folks home and whatnot. So, like, you can't, like, you know



Marie Vigouroux:
01:45:52
what? I mean, like, it's, it's, yeah,



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:56
I never thought about that. Living next to an



Jeremy Greer:
01:45:58
old folks home probably has some, like, passive benefits,



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:00
just in terms of, like, cops wanting to keep the noise level



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:03
down. I like that.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:05
Definitely. Like, I, I'm actually, I'm very,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:08
very lucky, because I live right next to all of the town



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:10
services. Like, I'm right next to the library, I'm right next



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:13
to the community center, I'm right next to the pool, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:16
right next to everything.



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:17
Never move.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:19
I really don't want to I love it there. Like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:22
there's the market every Wednesday. Like, you know, it's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:25
very, very cool. I like it,



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:27
Especially now that you've got your -



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:28
The churche is right across the street as well.



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:29
Yeah, as we learned last episode, the church



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:31
is there for your religion. And you got your brand new air



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:35
conditioner, right? Like, that's awesome.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:37
Yes, that was awesome. I got my brand new air



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:40
conditioner. It's been really cool. Like, literally, I can



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:43
just, like, turn it on and it works immediately. I don't need



Marie Vigouroux:
01:46:47
to wait, like, 24 to 48 hours actually cool my apartment.



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:52
yeah, having, living in the South, having,



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:55
like, we, I invest way too much money in ridiculous air



Jeremy Greer:
01:46:58
conditioning, because just like, we just need it. Like, you just,



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:01
you just want, you gotta, you gotta have it. So it's -



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:03
That's also the thing, like, I live on the third



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:06
floor of a of a three story building, like, it gets really



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:09
hot, because heat comes up, right? So, like, I get the heat



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:13
from all of the apartments downstairs, which is great in



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:15
the winter, like, I barely heat but like, in the summer it's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:19
awful.



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:22
Yeah, it's, it's pretty miserable we did when



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:26
Hurricane Delta hit. We did four days without power. And at the



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:29
time, I didn't have, like, a generator to run anything. I



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:31
had, like a little, tiny generator that I was keeping,



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:33
like, my freezer full of food and my refrigerator and my



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:37
switch charged. I had to get that guy to, you know, make sure



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:39
my priorities are in order,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:47:44
but not the AC, just the Switch.



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:46
No air conditioners, yeah, just fans



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:47
and and autumn, luckily, like, the Autumn was like, on a



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:51
business trip when delta landed, and she was like, I'm just gonna



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:53
stay up here. And I was like, that's a good idea. He shouldn't



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:55
come down here. There's nothing for you here. And it was, it was



Jeremy Greer:
01:47:59
like, literally, like me and her dad getting into my truck and,



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:03
like, cranking the air conditioner, just driving around



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:05
and seeing stuff just to have air conditioner like it was, it



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:07
was bad.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:48:08
And how do the dogs deal with that usually?



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:11
I mean, you know, basset hounds are pretty much



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:13
bumps in a log anyway, so this is just like them being even



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:17
lazier than they normally are. Oh, like I had all of the the



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:21
windows open in the living room and fans going to try to get,



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:23
like, a cross breeze going as much as possible. But you could



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:26
tell like they were just, like laying on the floor, kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:29
panting a little bit. I just try to keep them, you know, there's



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:33
some ice in the water bowl and everything like that. Just try



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:35
to keep them cool. But they survived. I guess, I think those



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:38
two survived, yeah, pretty sure.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:48:42
If we hear them like losing their minds during



Marie Vigouroux:
01:48:45
the podcast, they have survived.



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:47
Well, the - Penny, the Screamer, is curled up in



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:50
bed with autumn who is sleeping because she is she is sick.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:48:54
Oh no. Oh yeah. You guys were sick this week.



Jeremy Greer:
01:48:57
Yeah, my voice is a little, I don't know if you



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:00
can tell my voice is a little deeper than usual, because I



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:02
think I'm still on the other side. I think I'm still on the



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:04
other side of it. I'm not just talking like shredder because I



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:09
can. It's just what's happening.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:49:12
You're taking out your Dean Winchester voice.



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:20
Sammeh!



Marie Vigouroux:
01:49:21
Do that but with Will, Will



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:25
Tell me, will? Any demons in this area?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:49:33
Oh, my God.



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:33
Dean and will hanging out would be just an



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:36
experience, just two little weirdos just being weird they



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:40
get together in the same room. I feel like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:49:42
they would have trouble communicating, because



Marie Vigouroux:
01:49:44
they just would and they would probably not get each other, you



Marie Vigouroux:
01:49:51
know?



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:52
Yeah, I think, I think, like, in the fic in my



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:53
mind, like the premise is them, like, not quite like there's



Jeremy Greer:
01:49:58
only one bed at the end situation, but like we're - We



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:01
have to room with each other for a weekend, for like, you know,



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:03
reasons or something like, so they just have to be in this



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:05
small, confined space. So they have to interact with each



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:07
other. And like, of course, the first 24 hours, they barely



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:10
speak, and then, like, they finally, like, start, start



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:12
opening up to each other a little bit, but it's always



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:14
very, very awkward the entire time. What do you do for a



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:17
living?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:50:17
They have fishing in common.



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:19
They do have fishing in common. You're right,



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:20
yeah.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:50:20
I feel like maybe that could be like an



Marie Vigouroux:
01:50:23
opening, like in the fic that you're writing in your mind.



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:26
Yeah, of course, Tiktok told me that creating



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:31
internal fantasy worlds is a sign of like ADHD or something.



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:36
Now I'm just afraid to build these fics in my mind, because



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:38
I'm afraid I'm gonna get diagnosed with a mental disease



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:40
of some sort.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:50:42
Never be afraid to build the fics in your mind.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:50:45
That's how I survived my childhood.



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:47
Right? This is complex, you know, internal



Jeremy Greer:
01:50:51
fantasy structures that I'm living my life through.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:50:54
I know, right? I get that what - I'm running a



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:00
5k tomorrow.



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:02
You are, how is that? Yeah, so you've done a 5k



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:06
run, like, just this normal, right? Like, not in a race,



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:09
right?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:10
Yeah well, yeah, I've run 5k before, and I



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:12
also did, like, a race in April or May or something. But, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:17
I really wasn't ready to run 5k like, I had not run 5k before.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:22
So, like, technically, I really shouldn't have done that race,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:24
but whatever, I just did it because I could. And so I've



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:28
been, like, running all summer, and so I'm hoping that, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:31
this time I'm gonna it's gonna feel at least easier than it did



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:35
last time, because last time I ran the 5k and then I came home



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:38
and I didn't move for like, almost 24 hours.



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:41
I was about to say, I remember you posted on



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:43
Twitter about, like, just collapsing afterwards. So what's



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:46
the what's the preparation like for running a 5k like, are you



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:49
doing stuff today to prep for it, or is that like a morning



Jeremy Greer:
01:51:51
thing right before the race activity?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:54
So, I mean, the whole goal is to prep



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:56
beforehand. Now keep in mind that I was, like, super out of



Marie Vigouroux:
01:51:59
shape, like, for a while. Like, I did yoga last year, but that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:05
was pretty much it. And then before that, like, I think the



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:08
last time that I actually, like, properly exercised was, like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:12
2016 2017 or something, like, a while ago. So it took me a while



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:19
to, like, just get back to it. And the last week before a race,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:22
you're supposed to do what's called a taper, so you do a lot



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:25
less, so that you arrive at your race really fresh and rested.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:30
The issue was that I was sick this week as well, so we'll see



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:36
how it goes. And I've kind of like, let go of expectations.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:40
I'm like, You know what? Let's just treat it like any other 5k



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:43
and if you make the time cut off, then you make the time cut



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:46
off, and if not, then you don't and it's fine.



Jeremy Greer:
01:52:48
This sounds suspiciously like you're letting



Jeremy Greer:
01:52:49
Jesus take the wheel. Is that -



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:52
I know a little bit like, what was that thing



Marie Vigouroux:
01:52:56
that you said to me that I was like, that is so southern I love



Jeremy Greer:
01:52:59
Yeah, you were talking about somebody who



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:00
it.



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:01
couldn't sing, like she was, she could sing, but so she was



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:04
singing like, way out of her register. And that's something



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:06
about like, people take Scott people take God's gifts and as



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:09
an invitation to ask for more. And I don't know where it came



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:12
from. It's like, out of the boundaries of, like, backwoods



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:15
Mississippi grandma, like, Thank you mama for probably saying



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:18
that to me when I was three.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:53:22
That's the most southern thing I've ever heard



Marie Vigouroux:
01:53:24
you say.



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:26
You may not know this. My dad is my boss, so I



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:29
work for my dad in the quote, unquote family business. And we



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:33
had a business meeting the other day, and we were without going



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:38
into a lot of details, the the other party the business thing,



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:42
was like, No, you can't have this. And we were kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:44
arguing like, No, we should have this, right? And it kind of got



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:49
to the situation where the other party was like, we, we see you,



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:52
we understand that you feel this way. It's not going to happen.



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:56
And my dad kind of like, shrugged, and was like, Well,



Jeremy Greer:
01:53:58
you know, you know what they say, it's a poor frog that



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:00
doesn't croak for its own pond, and and the and the entire



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:06
place, like, there's like, six people in this meeting, and,



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:08
like a hotel, like lobby kind of situation, and we all like to



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:12
swiveled our heads with like, What in the fuck did you just



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:14
say?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:54:18
I love this so much



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:19
And I had to, like, repeat it, and I couldn't



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:21
even help myself, dude, sometimes you say to sometimes



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:22
you say the country is shit, like, I just couldn't even help



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:24
myself. And it's a relatively, like, casual meeting, right?



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:29
Like, we're, it's a business meeting, but like, we all know



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:31
one another and things like that. So like, everyone had a



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:33
good laugh. But like, everyone was like, What? What does that



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:37
even mean? And he was like, Well, yeah, if you're, it's a



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:40
toad that's croaking for his own pond, like he's speaking up for



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:43
what he what for what he makes is his own. And I was like, it



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:46
totally makes sense. And I've known you for 43 years, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:48
you've never said it once to me, so this is just a strange



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:51
experience.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:54:52
I love this so much because it makes so much



Marie Vigouroux:
01:54:54
sense, like I heard it, and I was like, Oh yeah, of course,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:54:57
yeah.



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:57
It's one of those really great phrases that just



Jeremy Greer:
01:54:59
like a. Soon as you hear it, you're like, well, course that



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:01
yeah, all of that makes sense. So yeah,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:03
all of that makes sense. Good job. Jeremy's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:05
dad, good job.



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:06
Good job, Dad, we're gonna work on your



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:10
parenting skills next, but your idioms, idioms are 10/10.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:16
Oh, I felt that in my heart. I felt that deep in



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:20
my chest.



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:21
You can make - anybody can make me laugh, but



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:23
you can't make me cry, but you can only make me cry. I give my



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:29
dad a lot of shit on podcast, and he doesn't deserve it at



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:31
all, but he also he doesn't listen. So it's never gonna be



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:34
Yeah, there you go. I, you know, I feel like



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:34
getting me in trouble.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:38
it's one of those things where, like, sometimes, like, you know,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:44
sometimes it's well deserved. Parents are like, Yeah, I guess



Marie Vigouroux:
01:55:47
so. You're not wrong there.



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:49
I have a new coworker, and we were riding



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:54
together this week, so we're doing like, the normal get to



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:56
know you thing, and he just straight up asked, like, what



Jeremy Greer:
01:55:58
are your What are your hobbies? And I was like, Is this a date?



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:01
Like, what do we it's just a weird, I mean, it's a fine



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:03
question, but it's just a very direct, like, you know,



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:06
obviously he's scraping the bottom of the barrel to come up



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:08
with anything to talk to me about. So, like, what are your



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:10
hobbies, right? And I was like, Well, I do a lot of podcasts.



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:12
And he gets excited. I can tell he's like, oh, what kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:15
podcast do you do? And I'm like, Oh, I do you know stuff about,



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:17
like, movies and TV shows and video games. Like, we cover a



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:20
lot of media. Like watch a long podcast, and I've never



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:22
podcasts, and I've never seen someone deflate so fast, like,



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:24
he was just like, oh, like, the most. And I was like, what kind



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:28
of podcast were you thinking that I did? Like, what kind of



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:30
podcast are there that she thought that you got so excited



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:33
about it?



Marie Vigouroux:
01:56:34
Yeah I was gonna say, like, what was he



Marie Vigouroux:
01:56:36
hoping?



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:37
We never the con we, like, got interrupted, and



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:39
the conversation never, never resumed. So I never I'll have to



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:41
find out what kind of podcast, like, I don't know if he thought



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:43
I was, like, on the Joe Rogan show or something like, that's



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:45
maybe something.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:56:46
So I was gonna say, like, do you think that he



Marie Vigouroux:
01:56:49
listens to, like, Joe Rogan and stuff? And he was like, Oh my



Marie Vigouroux:
01:56:52
God. Is that what you do?



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:54
Yeah, do you interview, you know, scientists



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:56
and talk about, you know, frogs or whatever? I don't know what



Jeremy Greer:
01:56:58
Joe Rogan talks about.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:56:59
I don't know either frankly



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:01
find that dude repulsive.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:04
I try not to the least I know about Joe



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:09
Rogan, the better my life is direct relationship, direct



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:13
inverse relationship.



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:14
Yeah, it's like using Twitter, right? Like, the



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:16
less I use Twitter, the better I am. The less I see Joe Rogan's



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:19
face on my phone, the better I am period.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:21
I agree. It's definitely one of those things.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:24
Oh, my God.



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:26
I guess we should talk about Hannibal, because I



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:28
have a feeling, as I'm scrolling through and seeing all of the



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:30
green text in the notes that this is going to be a long



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:33
episode. Okay, I am excited.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:37
Is there that much green text? Yeah, I wrote a



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:42
lot. Oh yeah, you wrote your review today.



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:45
I did. I was doing that while you were teaching me



Jeremy Greer:
01:57:48
French while talking to your mother on the phone.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:53
My mom is running the 5k race with me, so



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:55
that's awesome. I can't, I can't find the start time. I'm like,



Marie Vigouroux:
01:57:58
it's 10: 30 I told you this, like, mother!



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:03
can't find the start time. Google it. It's



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:05
easy.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:58:07
Like, okay, so the so just last thing before we



Marie Vigouroux:
01:58:10
get going, one thing that I do sometimes with Rachel is that



Marie Vigouroux:
01:58:13
I'll just, I'll just text her, Rochelle, my mother, and she's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:58:16
like, What? What did she do? My mother, like, that's it. That's



Marie Vigouroux:
01:58:22
just, that's a complete sentence for us.



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:24
Autumn's dad came to the door yesterday. So it's a



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:28
weird living setup where we're, like, we converted our garage



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:30
into an apartment, and then the garage and the house are



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:33
separated by like, a little breezeway area. So he has his



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:37
own little, like space. We have our space. There's like a mutual



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:40
space. So he comes over and knocks on the door last night,



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:43
and I opened the door. And usually he's like, something's



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:46
wrong. I need some help or whatever, like, whatever. But



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:48
now he was like, Hey, I just watched a TV show about cancer.



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:52
And I was like, okay.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:58:54
oh no.



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:55
He pulls his he pulls the neck of his shirt



Jeremy Greer:
01:58:57
over, and he's like, what's this? There's like, a spot on



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:00
his neck. And I'm like, I don't know, dude. Like, I don't think



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:03
that it's cancer. Like, I don't think that you got cancer in the



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:05
last day. But he's like, Well, I've told Autumn about this too.



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:09
And I'm like, Yeah, I could hear her, she's, she's asking me if



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:11
it's the spot. And I can, I can hear her from the other room



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:13
asking me. So I said, you know, you go to the doctor soon. We'll



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:16
get it checked out or cut off, whichever one he wants, which is



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:18
really funny. I'll watch a TV show about cancer. What's this?



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:26
Shout out to Mark, If you listen, he listens to all the



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:28
podcasts.



Marie Vigouroux:
01:59:29
Oh yay. All right, I'm ready.



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:34
I just finished my coffee. Accidentally made my



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:41
coffee, I gotta a newfancy coffee pot maker, and it does



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:43
cold foam, like you can do, like I got a slide iced lattes, and,



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:51
oh yes, I accidentally made cold foam this morning and put it in



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:54
my drink. And when I picked it up, I was like, why is my



Jeremy Greer:
01:59:56
espresso hot or cold? Like, why is it freezing cold? Old and



Jeremy Greer:
02:00:00
Yeah, still tasty, though, oh yeah,



Marie Vigouroux:
02:00:03
there You go. It's like It's cold-spresso



Jeremy Greer:
02:00:05
Exactly.