Episode 7: They Haven't Even Tried Penetration Yet!

[Garageband version of Buddy Holly’s “Everyday” plays]
C: Hello! My name is Crystal.
G: And my name is Grey.
C: And this is Rubbish and Probably a Podcast, a Good Omens commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show too many times…
G: And I, someone who only knows this show through Crystal, discuss every single episode of Good Omens.
C: For today’s episode, we are discussing Season 2, Episode 1: “The Arrival.” It's not as bad as I thought it would be.
G: Season 2, baby! I think it's really bad. [C laughs] I sincerely think it's really bad.
C: Yeah, no, that is how that goes. I think, 'cause it's like, due to the having seen it multiple times-
G: You're immune, yeah.
C: It's like, all the issues with it sorta just flatten out 'cause you expect them already. So I was just like, "Wow! I smiled one time? [G laughs] I thought I would smile zero times. Yay!"
G: No, I feel like- I mean, I rewatched this episode. I watched it twice. So the first time, you don't really know when you're allowed to disengage, 'cause, you know, it's your first time watching so you think everything is going to be relevant or whatever. So I really like, hated it 'cause like, it was forcing me to pay attention to things that I did not give a shit about. [C laughs] But like, in my second watch, when I can just zone out completely when I don't care what's happening on screen because I already know what's happening, it was fine. So maybe that's what was happening with you also.
C: Yeah, probably. I watched this episode three times this week. Twice, with no notes, and then once with, and it's just 'cause I missed them, so it was nice to see them.
G: Yeah. I didn't even bother with notes. That's how much I did not give a shit about this one. Okay, I did give a shit about it. The episode made me think, but it's bad. Like, it's a bad watching experience. [G laughs] That's so mean. That's so mean.
C: Yeah, I think just due to the unanswered questions about where the characters are now, it's like, "Okay, how did they get here?"
G: Yeah. Implications, Yeah. Neil Gaiman has a writing partner this season. John Finnemore.
C: Yes. I have not experienced any of John Finnemore's work, but I believe that he did Cabin Pressure, which is a radio drama that a lot of people have found amusing. I think Benedict Cumberbatch is in it, though [G laughs], so I think that strikes out any amusingness it could have. So the summary for this episode, as per Jeff Bezos's personal, whatever, vanity project, is: "Retired angel Aziraphale and retired demon Crowley’s lives are upended when a visitor arrives on the doorstep of Aziraphale’s bookshop, bringing chaos. Local shopkeepers Maggie and Nina get locked in to Maggie’s-" Sorry. "Local shopkeepers Maggie and Nina get locked in to Nina's coffee shop when Crowley loses his temper. Heaven and Hell are suspicious, and Crowley and Aziraphale have a disagreement." [laughing] You can tell the writers were on strike when this was written.
G: God. I don't even want to start talking about this episode. Okay, should I say like, what I mean by "I don't like it"? It's unfunny. It's so terribly unfunny. Like, they debuted number 1 in Amazon Prime. Why is it so unfunny? Like, number one in comedy. That's like, the pinned Tweet in their Twitter. And it's so funny.
C: Yeah. I mean, that's the genre that they're in, but all of their views are from people who heard about the kiss, so.
G: It's, 1) It's unfunny, 2) It's so fucking corny. It is corny.
C: Yeah. You said it was a fanfiction-ass episode after the first time you watched it.
G: Yeah. I kept on saying it, actually I kept going back and forth because I would see Crowley and Aziraphale's face, and I'm like, "Oh my god, it's amazing!" And then they start talking, and I'm like, "This is a fanfiction-ass episode."
C: Well, you know, my theory that Neil Gaiman became bad at writing because of all the Tumblr asks he had to answer [G laughs] - Not "had to." He fully chose that life for himself. - really stands strong right now.
-
C: Well, we open before the beginning. The thing about this scene is that I first heard about it on July 18th via, like, some article about Season 2 of Good Omens and it was like, "Oh, yeah, they meet as angels building stars together," blah blah blah. And immediately, I messaged Danica, "i just don't like the idea that he knew angel crowley bc it makes the always knew there was good in you line feel cheaper like i knowww the last chapter of any fic where this happens is aziraphale going no i love you as a demon and how you do mean things sometimes i don't just like you bc i'm acquainted w your former pure self but still boo." And you know what? You know fucking what? I was right. My fears were so correct and right. So yeah. This is- they made this so that the "Enchanted" AMV could happen. [G laughs] Also, I don't know. To get it out of the way, I dislike this retconning of their first meeting. I liked that Eden was their first meeting. What did you think, Grey?
G: I disliked this meeting because- I think maybe a part of it is also because when I first watched the show, I didn't know anything, and I didn't know these people. So this is like, really my first introduction, right? In Season 1, the Eden scene, I didn't know what the story is going to be about, and the Eden scene, while revealing some stuff about what it is about, it feels natural in the way it does it. Like, it really does feel like there is a principality of the Eastern Gate and the wily serpent of Eden just happened to meet up, and they would legitimately have this conversation, you know? This one, it feels like, "Oh, this is trying to tell me something." There is a point to this that isn't just us seeing how they are. There's no narration this episode, and I'm assuming the entirety of Season 2. We win some, truly, and we fucking lose some, also. [C laughing] Yeah. And the whole- the reason I'm bringing that up right now is that you would think that God bringing up the Eden scene is like, because it's going to be relevant to the story. But like, even now, after watching the entirety of Season 1, like, it is thematically relevant in that it brings up the sword, but, like, it also just feels very much like they met, and we're just seeing how they met. This one, like, it feels so wrong. Like, if God was narrating this, I would be like, "Yeah, that's reasonable." Like, I will be shown this by someone who knows how the story will progress in this way, and like, is intending for the start to progress this way. But because this is just something we're like, privy to for no narrative reason, I mean, you know, like, inside the narrative, it just feels so like, "Man, why?" Why?
C: It's like, I don't know, I feel like all the historical things in this season, like, I don't actually believe that they happened at that point during their timeline. Like, it was clearly written by someone who already knew all the other things that were gonna happen. Which, like, yes, it was written by someone who already knew all the other things that were gonna happen., but like, don't write it like you know it 'cause like, they don't know it yet.
G: Yeah! They don't.
C: I liked Eden 'cause I thought it was nice that, like, they were able to immediately establish a rapport, and it just seemed like they were just both sort of friendly people. But now it's like, "No, like, they used to know each other, so like, that's why they were able to have a casual convo." And it's like, well, [laughs] that's not what I thought. Give me back what I thought!
G: I mean, I probably am just, you know. But the feeling I got from this is that like, not that it didn't happen, just that they forgor. [laughs] Like, they don't remember this. So, I don't know. I still believe that like, when they met that time in Eden, it was like, the first to them because they just forgot this.
C: That would be nice.
G: I don't even- Why do I even think that? Is there anything in the story that will verify that in any way, shape, or form? Or like, dispute that?
C: That they forgot? I mean, you can believe it, but [G groans] there's nothing that really says anything either way about it.
G: Is there anything that says that they definitely remember?
C: That they d- eh, probably not.
G: Yeah. Well, then, they forgot, baby! [laughing] They forgot.
C: Okay, that would be- well, the wing thing.
G: Why? Why would you just say that and go silent completely? What's the wing thing?
C: I mean, like, you noticed the wing thing at the end of the scene.
G: Of course.
C: So like, that implies some amount of remembering if it was reenacted, right?
G: No! No.
C: No? Okay. Cool. I mean, I'd like to believe your thing.
G: [laughing] I believe so hard and so raw.
C: Okay. I'll try to believe so hard and so raw. I'll try my best.
G: I mean, Crowley is so cute. Crowley is so, so, so beautiful.
C: I know! I know! Every time, before I pressed play on this scene, I'm like, "I hate that it exists," [G laughs] and then I see them, and it's like, "Oh my god! Maybe everything's fine and everything's okay and everything's beautifully-written in this world."
G: Yeah, god.
C: One thing I like about them having known each other for so long is when Crowley says in Episode 3 of Season 1, like, "How long have we been friends? 6000 years?" I like that they weren't friends until Eden, at least.
G: Cares. Yeah.
C: Yeah, alright. So let's start with the actual scene. So we have angel!Crowley floating in space, which is like, darkness with lights and branches. CGI this scene, not great.
G: Holding a tires thing.
C: Yeah, holding a tire iron.
G: What's the fucking point of that?
C: The tire iron thing? I don't know. I guess just like, to connect some of their former self to their present self.
G: No but like, that's what you were saying, right? Like, you're writing this as if you already know what will happen, and that's why I hate it. That's why I hate that fucking tire whatever thing.
C: Well, it allowed them to have Hays Code-era gay sex, so that's something. [G sighs, then laughs]
G: The way that I just sighed so loud. [C laughs] But that is how I feel.
C: So they're wearing, like, these white robes with gold trim. They have their wings out. They're white, and they have silly Teletubby hair, which I love so much. It's like, short, but like, I don't know how to describe the style, but there is like, a large curl on the top of their head that bounces around a lot when they move their head, and it's very cute. They're very cute. They see like, a shooting star-looking thing and shout like, "Excuse me. Oi!" And it turns out to be Aziraphale, who lands next to Crowley and looks up at them, like, sort of like- I don't know how to d- Like, Aziraphale's such a fucking slut this scene [G laughs] is how I feel about every single facial expression he has. But is that just me?
G: No. Massive crush on this guy. Massive.
C: Yeah, yeah. 100%. Yeah. So he lands and is like, looking up, very eager to please, like, "Yes, was that you?" Crowley's just like- Crowley DGAF. Crowley's just focused on their job. And they have Aziraphale hold up this scroll while they crank up the nebula.
G: Have Hays Code sex? Yeah.
C: Yes. [G laughing] 'Cause they, like, Aziraphale holds the scroll like, in front of himself, like, around the like, abdomen, little lower, area. And then Crowley sticks the tire iron in the middle of the scroll, and then like, cranks it around a bunch. Yeah, like, alright. Good for you guys! They're both very young and new-seeming, and it's sweet. It is sweet. Crowley explains that that was priming the engine for creating something and is talking about how they've been waiting for this since forever. Both of them are very smiley, and it's kind of like, an awkward like, coworker-you-just-met kind of smiley, but like, they also are having fun. And yeah. Aziraphale is like, "Um, hello! I'm... Aziraphale!"
G: And Crowley's like, "Okay." [laughing]
C: And Crowley DGAF. Is just like, [dismissively] "Nice meeting you."
G: Crowley does not give a shit.
C: Yeah. Aziraphale looks so cute in his robes. Crowley is a stronger person than I'll ever be. He like, says some shit to conjure up matter, and also, "Let there be light."
G: Like, there's a music cue and everything.
C: Yeah, there's a whole music cue and everything. It's like, all of the cosmos, like, magic, whatever vibes. And then colors burst in, and it's bad CGI, and then Crowley like, fucking squees. [laughs] Like, I don't know what a better word for the sound they made is.
G: There's a word for it in Filipino. It's kilig, and it's like, the feeling that you feel when you're like, super happy or like, oftentimes, it's related to romance, but you can experience kilig in another avenues too. And he literally is experiencing kilig in this scene, and I'm so sad there's no English translation to it.
C: Yeah! It's so wonderful. Like, she does it multiple times. Yeah. So good. And then [laughs] we get the corniest fucking thing in the history of corn, which is that Crowley, looking at her nebula, goes, "Look at you. You're gorgeous."
G: [laughing] It's so corny! It's a fanfiction-ass episode! Fanfiction-ass episode.
C: And Aziraphale, smiling, [laughs] realizes, "Oh, you weren't talking about me." and then frowns a little and-
G: It's so corny!
C: Like, he would not fucking do that.
G: He would not fucking do that.
C: No one in the world would fucking do that. I guess in the world without the kiss, it's like, "We have to announce straight up that Neil Gaiman has renounced his ways [G laughing] and is gonna do a romance this season." But like, there's got to be better ways to do it. But you know, we saw him with Anathema and Newt, and we saw him with Madame Tracy and Shadwell. He can't write romance. He has to do this shit. They have like, a conversation where it's just like, they're so awkward but so cute! Where it's like, yeah, I don't know. They really feel like they're at like, some awkward office dinner party where you're trying to socialize and be nice, but you don't know how to-
G: That's not how you do that.
C: - so you just smile and do things to your voice about it.
G: I mean, I said "This is not how you do that!" [laughing] But that feels so mean because you- [laughing] Well, Aziraphale specifically is doing like, "You did a good job. It's very pretty." And it's so bad! It's so bad! [both laughing] Every single person who has talked to me like this in any setting whatsoever, I have vehemently hated. Crowley is so strong.
C: [laughing] Wait, what did you dislike about Aziraphale's thing?
G: Like, him going, "Well, it's very pretty! And I think you've done an excellent job." [laughing] Like, it's so bad. Shut the fuck up!
C: [still laughing] Wait, I still haven't heard the actual objection to it. Does it feel patronizing?
G: Not even that. It's, just shut up! I mean, I have personal hang-ups to talking to people in any situation [C laughs], so maybe that's why. [both laugh]
C: Yeah, it just seems like, "We're not friends, but we still have to be in this room together. I really like your shirt."
G: They don't! The universe is so massive! Aziraphale can just run off!
C: Yeah. But like, he already wants to fuck Crowley so bad it's unreal. He asks Crowley, like, what this does and all that. And, okay. So first, Crowley says that they weren't the original concept designer, but worked very closely with upstairs on it, and on the "very closely," like, they do like, a little crossing the fingers to show how tight they were thing, and that's so cute. They're so cute. And she's very excited to explain the nebula, saying that, you know, most stars in the universe are gonna come pre-aged, but these ones are new, and the dust and gas is making 5000 stars and protoplanets which will eventually like, happen over the next few million years, and goes, "And then, boom! Stars! Everywhere!" in like, the same tone as like, the bookshop drunk scene.
G: Yeah, "Stars crashing down everywhere."
C: Yeah, "Stars crashing down, what are they putting in bananas these days?" etc. And it's like, there's like, this nice atmospheric choral music going the whole time, right? And then Aziraphale starts- Aziraphale looks kinda awkward, and then starts talking, and the music like, does this thing where it like-
G: Record scratch.
C: - distorts and winds down. Record scratch. And it's like, it's not funnay!
G: I think I messaged you several times in this episode like, "I haven't laughed once yet." [C laughs] And you know what? I did not laugh here.
C: It was like, a really odd choice. Because the only time this happens in Season 1 is during the bookshop drunk scene when they sober up and like, that's 'cause it's like, a comedic scene, and this is like, a sudden tone shift in like, their mentalities. But like, this is like, a fairly serious scene, I would say. Like, it just felt incredibly out of place and like, bad. So.
G: Here? I mean, I wouldn't say that it's like, this is a serious scene, but it is still bad. So I'm not gonna protest that much.
C: Yeah. I think when Danica and I were watching this at the time on July 27, this was our first, "Huh? What the fuck? This season's gonna be bad" moment. So Aziraphale says that "The current word from upstairs is that we'll be shutting this all down again in about 6000 years."
G: "6000 years?"
C: Yeah. I feel we haven't really talked about the fact that if everyone knew about the Great Plan, like, they knew the specific deadline for the universe, like, in Season 1.
G: Yeah. So like, why is Crowley so surprised when that baby showed? I mean, maybe because, you know, she wasn't expecting that the baby is going to be her responsibility, but okay.
C: Well, I mean, they also say, like, "Already?" And I think it is because- okay, 4004 BC plus 6000 is actually like, 1996, right? I keep fucking up on this math throughout the podcast. [G laughing] So it's 1996, right? So it's like, they probably spent this- probably around, it was "about 6000," right? So probably around like, 5500, they started getting nervous. And then, like, they got really nervous in 1996. And then it passed. And they were like, "Oh, so like, is it even gonna happen anymore? Or is it like, just between 6000 and 6500 years?" Like, I feel like they probably got a bit tired of being so scared about it. And then, like, 20 years later, it's like, "No, it's time."
Crowley looks so so disappointed about this and goes, "But that's nothing! Aww! I mean, what's the point in creating an infinite universe with trillions of star systems if you're only gonna let it run for a few thousand years?" And "What's the point?" is what they say during their giant depression era talk with Shax later, so that's something. And- aw. Aw. They always needed a higher purpose and someone to answer their questions, and they're not getting either of them ever. I don't- I feel like- so we know in Season 1 that like, Crowley built the stars, but I guess, like, not the extent to which, like, he cares about them. And it's like, I think that they've changed in the last 6020 years and stuff. But like, do they just- do they ever want to just go to Alpha Centauri for like, vacation or something? Do they ever long for the universe beyond Earth? Like, what's up? [silence] No thoughts?
G: Sorry. [laughing]
C: That's cool.
G: [laughing] It is a testament to how much I do not give a shit about this episode that I don't want to engage with that.
C: Alright, yeah.
G: I'm sure Crowley- I mean, look at him, having so much fun, enjoying, etc etc.
C: Yeah. But it's also been a long time. Currently, Crowley fucking hates Earth and the concept of Earth, which I think is so cute. So [G laughs] people change.
G: No, but like, throughout the years, I'm sure that that feeling happened at some point. Yeah.
C: Yeah. So Aziraphale's like, "Oh, yeah, so the point. So you've heard of Earth?" And Crowley's like, "No? [both laugh] What the fuck is that?"
G: No, what's funny, is like, at first, Crowley was trying to be like, "Uhhh," and then just goes like, "No."
C: "Not as such." Which, agh. That's so nice. That's so nice. They don't even know! They're gonna risk their entire life defending this planet and dedicate like, 11 years to trying to save it, and they don't even know yet. Also, I love how out of the loop Crowley is. Like, Aziraphale knows all this shit. Like, I feel like- I don't know. People talk about like, angel rankings and angel jobs a lot. I feel like Crowley's like, I don't know. I guess the fact that Crowley was able to ask Aziraphale to come to her assistance, and I feel like angels are pretty hierarchical, probably means that they're like, about equal or Aziraphale's, like, maybe like, one order lower or something, but yeah, I guess Crowley's just been floating out here in space, having a good time, and Aziraphale’s been more involved in, like, the Earth Division, which is cool. I still want to know what he designed. So Aziraphale says that like, "Okay, so like, Earth is like, this blue-green planet that's going to be over there. Now, that's where the 'people' [laughs] that we're currently designing are going to be." He says that he has seen the plans, so he hasn't been directly involved, but like, he is like, in that office space, or whatever, I'm assuming. He says the word "breed" a lot, [G laughs] which, very painful to listen to. But basically, he says that they're gonna start out with two people, they're gonna spread out across the Earth, and the point of Crowley's nebula is that- specifically, Aziraphale's like, "I get the impression that the stars, and your, um-" and Crowley goes, "Call it a nebula." which implies that- Did Crowley come up with that word?
G: Why not?
C: Why not?
G: [laughing] Why the fuck not? Yeah. How does language even work?
C: I'm trying to relate this to the naming scene is the fic you sent me, but-
G: No, that shit is crazy. That shit is so crazy. Everybody- I need somebody to ask me so hard and so raw on Tumblr to reveal my list of lesbian Aziraphale and Crowley fanfiction. Please do. Thank you!
C: I mean, it's possible that the time that this episode comes out, someone will already have done it, let's hope.
G: [laughing] What, you? [C laughing] on anon from your other account to appease me? [both laughing] Sure, why not?
C: No, okay, I'm gonna wait like, two days, [G laughing] and then if no one asks, I will- yes, I will go on on anon and ask for you. So yeah. I think Crowley came up with this name. But yeah, the whole time Aziraphale's talking, Crowley is just looking slightly devastated and hanging on to Aziraphale's every word and like, nodding like, "Yes? Yes? And then?" like, each time, like, "Okay, and now you're gonna say something that makes me feel better?" But this does not occur. Aziraphale says that the stars and the nebulas exist just so that "the 'people' can look up into the night sky and marvel at the illimitable vastness of the Almighty's creation." and sort of clasps his hands and smiles, beatifically. And Crowley is not fucking having it. Crowley goes, "But that's idiocy! It's the universe, not just some fancy wallpaper. Most of it won't even be visible from 'Earth'!" which [laughs], ah! Ah! He hates Earth so fucking much. I love him. [G laughs] Love him!
G: Yeah. God! Now I remember the fucking "you can't kill kids" line again. [C laughs] God! When's that one happen? Is it-
C: Noah's ark. Is it 3004 BC?
G: Oh, yeah, it's been a thousand years, yeah. A thousand years, all it took. That he cares so, so, so, so much.
C: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, a thousand years during which, like, she never met up with Aziraphale, so this is like, fully a solo thing which is very important to me.
G: And I mean, I guess there is something to the whole like, "Here, we see that, you know, Crowley, like, is the one who like, likes stuff." And like, we don't really see that in Crowley in recent times, right? Like, that's a very, very, very Aziraphale trait.
C: Yeah.
G: I don't know, I think it's nice. Crowley was attached to things and stuff. I mean, I think, really, what we were supposed to get the most is that Crowley, like, takes pride in doing the things that, you know, they ought to do.
C: Ought to?
G: You know, like, they like the stars. Yeah, like, the stars was- and now, in recent times, they like, well, in Season 1, I suppose, like, they took pride of the M25 stuff. They took pride of the cell phone tower stuff, like, you know. There's pride in there.
C: Crowley's an engineer and enjoys being an engineer.
G: So like, when we start this episode in present times and like, Crowley is purposeless and disconnected from Hell.
C: Yeah. Not even funemployed.
G: Not even funemployed, you guys! [C laughs]
C: Yeah, fully miseryemployed. Very sad.
G: Yeah. Devastationemployed.
C: Yeah. Crowley's upset, and then starts saying, like, "Yeah, like, why don't you put Earth in the middle of the universe so that the view's better?" And Aziraphale starts getting very- yeah, I don't know.
G: Nervous.
C: Teacher's pet in your elementary school class [G laughs] who like, won't let you copy off their homework. Yeah, which, I mean, that was me.
G: Just like Crystal for real.
C: That was me. Yeah. I repent. Aziraphale goes, "It's not our job to advise Almighty on the details of creation." Crowley just steamrolls on, going like, "Well then, whose job is it? I mean, someone has to say, 'Look, boss, this is a really, really terrible idea.'" And, you know, Aziraphale just gets more and more pointed with his "Don't do that" sentences, but, you know, Crowley's like, "I think that I should put a note in the suggestion box and all that. If I was the one running at all, I'd like, it if someone asked questions. Fresh point of view." And at this point, Aziraphale- Aziraphale's already like, pretty alarmed, like, in a tizzy. But after this sentence, he starts looking around nervously, like checking in on if someone's listening. I guess first, I'm wondering, like, has the Fall begun already? Like, what are the punishments that exist right now? Has something bad happened to some other angels for questioning already? Or is Aziraphale just like, in general nervous that like, surely this can't be an allowed sentence? I guess. Yeah. Don't know
G: Hm. Don't know.
C: I don't think it's started yet. I think that Aziraphale just has a general sense of dread and anxiety, and this makes me sad. I sort of just assumed that before the Fall, like, no one was that afraid of, like, the Heaven surveillance state and all that shit, but like, no. Aziraphale’s had anxiety from like, the very beginning. He has always been like this. Like, yeah. Like, he's never gotten a break.
G: I mean, I think, like, maybe I'm way off, and we don't really see other angels from this time, anyway. But from how I interpreted the scene, like, Crowley is the odd one out. Like, Crowley being displaced is weird. Or, I don't know, maybe because I already know that, like, Crowley is the one who's going to Fall, I just assumed, you know, whatever. But Crowley acting this way, I interpret it as like, "Nobody acts this way, and that's why Aziraphale was so scared." Like, this is a new thing that somebody is doing.
C: Perhaps so, yeah.
G: Also, because the way Crowley talks about it, right, like, the way God is spoken about. Like, with Aziraphale, he is very much on the side of, "Oh, like, me and the angels are planning something," or "I was in the room where the angels were planning something," but like, it's never directly to God. But like, you hear Crowley say, like, "Oh, me and God are tight." I think maybe Crowley just thinks that God- like, they're closer to God than they actually are. This is like, you know, "What if the head of your office is like, your best friend, and then they fire you?" [both laugh] Like, this is what it feels like.
C: [laughs] Yeah, it kind of does. Sorry, babe. Crowley continues by saying, like, you can't just create a universe, run it for a few thousand years, and then stop." And, like, Aziraphale, panicked, tries to like, redirect by going like, "I like that pinky blue bit in the corner." Trans rights. [G laughs] And then, "It's very, um, ah!" Like, I think he's trying to imitate Crowley's squee to be like, "I, too, am a connoisseur of nebulas," [both laugh] but like, it's not working. And then he goes, "But look, word to the wise, I'd hate to see you getting into any trouble." And Crowley, DGAFing, goes, "Thanks for your help. And thanks for your advice. I wouldn't worry, though. How much trouble can I get into just for asking a few questions?"
G: And then, like, the world fucking darkens. Or like, the color changes or whatever.
C: Yes, specifically, his wings get a little grayer.
G: Is that for real? Okay, I'll check.
C: Yes, it's like- okay, I didn't really notice the first few times, but okay, like-
G: Oh, yeah.
C: I mean, fucking Neil Gaiman recently answered an ask. Someone was like, "Did his wings get greyer like? Was that 'cause he was starting to Fall?" And Neil Gaiman, who never answers a question just like, head-on, but like, I guess implies an answer strongly, just goes, "It's something we worked very hard on." [G laughs] Like, okay, Neil Gaiman, that was a yes or no question, but like, good job for working hard on it, I guess. But yeah.
G: It's before the "word to the wise" part.
C: Do you think Aziraphale noticed and was like, "Oh, no, I can't just redirect. I do have to say something."
G: Yeah. Probably. Aww. [similar tone to Hastur and Ligur in Episode 4] Crowley.
C: Yeah. Sowwy. Cro- [laughs]
G: You know, every time I say "Crowley," I imagine in your voice, while you mimic Hastur saying "Crowley" in Episode 5.
C: I think it was mostly-
G: It was in Episode 4.
C: Episode 4, yeah. Well, most times, when I say Crowley in caps, it's just my voice. The thing about this is, we hear Crowley's account of her Fall in Season 1, and it's that Lucifer came up to her, ask her to join his friend group 'cause they all had a few complaints about Heaven, and they just sort of sauntered vaguely downward without meaning to do anything or taking a particular stand on anything. I feel like it's very characterized as a "Oh, I was young and stupid, and didn't know anything like, but like, eh. And now look where we are now." But like, now, we're learning that like, this is what did it, right? Like, I guess the Lucifer thing could still happen after this, but I feel like the implication is that after this, Crowley went over, suggested a suggestion box and then got fucked, right?
G: No. Not necessarily.
C: Not necessarily?
G: I think it happened the way Crowley describes it as happening. Like, the Lucifer and the gang show up and like, "Oh my god, we have some questions. You want to join us?" And Crowley's like, "Oh yeah, I have some questions, too," and then they're Falling- I don't know. I forgot the line. I was gonna quote it in Crowley's voice, but I forgot!
C: Something- "doing a million lightyear dive into [overlapping] a pool of boiling sulfur" or something like that? Yeah.
G: Poor Crowley.
C: Yeah. Though I guess Crowley's account is somewhat more humorous. Like, well, at least, they do say it's like, "Lucifer in the gang came over and asked me to join their friend group, and like, I was like, well, you know, food hadn't been so good lately," blah blah blah, so like, I guess, like, he is leaving out the fact that, like, it, came from like, a place of deep love for this nebula, and like, a strong belief that like, God did need this specific suggestion. Like, he did leave that part out. Which, yeah. I guess- what does Crowley stand to gain by purposefully like, fudging some of the details of it?
G: I don't think there's anything to gain. I think Crowley's just drunk and miserable.
C: I suppose so.
G: He wasn't talking to anyone in that scene.
C: No, I don't mean stand to- like, stand to gain like, for, like, her own emotional like, stability, or whatever. [G laughs] You DGAF? [G laughs]
G: You know, a big frustration I have this episode is we don't see what Aziraphale is feeling. Like, there's no like, insight on how is Aziraphale's doing. You feel like that?
C: At any point?
G: Not at any point. But it's very Crowley-heavy.
C: Is it really?
G: Yeah. I don't know why I'm bringing this up after you asked me [both laughing] what Crowley stands to gain, but I'm just trying to convey my mindset right now of like, "I am a little bit upset that Aziraphale is not given time, and you forcing me to think about Crowley [both laughing harder] is making me miserable."
C: Alright! Alright! You don't have to talk about Crowley anymore. I'll do all the talking about Crowley.
G: [laughing] No, it's fine. I'm just mostly kidding.
C: I think it hurts less if they think that they Fell because of like, basically a clerical error instead of like, something that they felt deeply and still feel deeply.
G: But, like, you know, episode before that, they did go like, "I was just asking questions." And that's like, you know, like, that's taking- not the blame, but like, claiming the action that led to the Fall. Like, "I did actually do that."
C: Yeah. that's true. They allude to the "Lucifer and the boys" thing during a more miserable part of their life.
G: Yeah. Maybe the point was, it was nothing. It was a nothing action. And then suddenly, this is happening. And it's less about like, you know, feeling guilty and more like feeling betrayed.
C: Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense.
G: Hell yeah!
C: And then there's like, a meteor shower thing, and Crowley covers Aziraphale with their wing. And like, this ball of fire hits it and reflects off. The wing thing is what I find the worst about this scene existing personally, 'cause it recontextualizes Aziraphale’s wing thing in Eden in a way that I like, am not interested in in any way whatsoever. 'Cause like, what I see about Aziraphale in the Eden scene, like, his two acts of goodness, are like, giving away the sword and like, covering Crowley with the wing during the first rains. And, like, the unifying idea of both of those are like, "These are things that he, as an angel and his role as guardian of the Eastern Gate is not supposed to do, but like, his instinct is for kindness, so like, he just does both of these things without thinking." And then, like, once, he thinks, he probably like, has to justify it himself, or renounce what he did or whatever. But like this scene turns it more into like, a paying-Crowley-back sort of vibe, or like, returning-the-favor sort of vibe, which, like, I want the wing thing in Eden to be like, a completely unprompted act of kindness that, like, establishes Aziraphale more as a character, and I feel like this undoes some of that, so I don't like it.
G: I don't think Aziraphale even noticed the fucking wings.
C: Mm. [G laughing]
G: Do you know what I mean? No, because the fucking meteor shower, whatever, like, fine. Like, the rain, you can feel. Do you understand what I mean? So like, with Crowley, there's no more reason-
C: If he got hit by that ball of fire, [G laughs] I think that would have been felt.
G: Yeah, but you don't get hit by rain. It just falls on you, no matter what. So like, if you get covered from the rain, you're like, "I'm being covered from the rain." If you get covered from meteors, you're like, "Lucky me. I didn't get hit."
C: Wait, what's the- what's the difference?
G: You know, to me, this scene isn't even real. [C laughing] This scene isn't even real. As I've said earlier, like, it doesn't matter to me because they don't remember it.
C: I just feel like if you show that something happened, the characters have to explicitly say they don't remember it-
G: No.
C: - for you to think that they didn't remember in canon, right? 'Cause like, the point of showing it is that this happened.
G: But how can they say they don't remember it if they already don't remember it? Are they just remembering that they don't remember it?
C: I just- like, any kind of line about how like, "I mean, whatever happened in Heaven during all of my time as an angel is very fuzzy," but like, it's not, 'cause like, she remembers the Fall, so like-
G: Remember when they were asked who they were and Aziraphale goes, "Oh, I was on apple tree duty, and he is a wiley serpent." So this is like, the beginning of their story for them. Maybe they remember that this happened with someone-
C: No! But Anathema asked for an explanation. Like, this is the human-centered explanation of how we came to the end of the world. Like, you wouldn't need the stars prequel thing. [G groans] Like, it's not about- like, Aziraphale wasn't answering a question about their story. He was answering a question about the story of the Earth and humanity
G: I'm going to fact-check that.
C: That that's what Anathema asked?
G: Yes.
C: Well, she asked, "Can somebody explain what's going on here?" And the "what's going on" is the Apocalypse, [G groans] so obviously, you'd like, start with humanity.
G: Fine. I guess.
C: I mean, again, you're fully free to believe that the scene didn't happen, [G laughing] or that they don't remember it, but I think the canon implication is that they did -
G: [laughing] "Your headcanon is valid. To you."
C: - that it did happen, and that they do to some extent remember it.
G: [laughing] Don't fucking "Your headcanon is valid. To you." me. [C laughing] Don't fucking do this to me! [both laughing]
C: Yeah, okay, I guess I couldn't tell if you were engaging in this as like a "This is just what I choose to believe for my personal well-being," [G laughs] or like, "I think that in canon, they don't remember it genuinely."
G: No, I genuinely don't think they remember it.
C: Okay, in that case I'm gonna continue arguing. [both laughing]
G: [laughing] Okay.
C: But yeah. You know what? Your headcanon IS valid. For you. [both laughing] Alright. And then we get the theme song. Animation is a bit different from the previous. Last time they were walking off a cliff which was the end of the world. This time it starts with Crowley climbing out of a valley back onto a path.
G: Yeah, and Aziraphale lying down.
C: Yeah. And they just head up some mountain and end up at like, a lighthouse, and they pass through a bunch of scenes, and there's a bunch of humans following them, etc. Yep. Alright.
-
G: Well, we go to present day. We're in London. Aziraphale receives a letter. Well, first, I want to talk about Aziraphale’s outfit. There has been a change, which is that he switched out his long coat- not long. I don't know what you call it? Trenchcoat? Who give a shit. He switched it out for like, a coat that looks like a cardigan. He is so cute.
C: I did not notice that.
G: Like, I mean, it's shaped like a jacket, you know, like a- what's that? Like a- when you're wearing a suit thing. What do you call that? Suit jacket? Probably.
C: Blazer?
G: A blazer. It's shaped like a blazer, but like, the texture of the material, the textile, like, the- what do you call it? the fabric looks plush, so it does look like a cardigan, and I love it so much!
C: Wait, what did his jacket last ep/season look like?
G: It looked like, I don't know. Like, not plush? [laughs]
C: Okay, yeah. I see it, I see it. It's like, a smoother or like, smaller thread sort of situation in the first person.
G: Yeah, versus second season, where it's- it's a cardigan, you guys. It's so cute. It's grey also. So cute. I love you, Aziraphale. The way the shot starts. It's like, it's going down from the sky, and there's like, a slow-mo thing, but like- or, I don't know. Is it fast motion? I have no idea. They're like, playing with the speed of the everything.
C: All this was CGI.
G: And my first thought was, "They have a budget."
C: Well, okay - I don't wanna defend Season 2. - It was filmed during COVID, so they spent a lot of money on that, and yeah, I think the entire opening shot was CGI because they couldn't actually have all those people walking in the streets and shit.
G: Yeah, that was my first thought. Because I know that this set was built in a different area, like, it's not- Where did they build the first one?
C: 'Cause they burned the other one.
G: No, like, location. It's a different location.
C: They did all the filming of Season 2 in Scotland.
G: It does feel different. Like, Season 2 does feel different. Like, the locations feel different. Don't you feel? And like, I'm sure a big part of it is that it was COVID, so, you know, not going to be an asshole about that [C laughs], but it does look weird. And I was, like, throughout this episode, I was thinking, "I'm sure that they rebuilt this library wonderfully."
C: The bookshop. Yeah, probably.
G: Yeah. [laughs] "Library." Well, they rebuilt the bookshop wonderfully, and, like, you know, I've seen like, a post where, like, even the sink was like, I don't know, like, they traced it back to like, get the same model and stuff. And like, that's wonderful. Yeah, I think that's wonderful. Great attention to detail. It does feel different, though. And I don't know enough about cinematography or anything to figure out why, but I think a part of it is like, the way it is directed, so. I don't know! I think also, a part of it is that Season 1 dialogue, which we'll get into later, how the characters this season are. Like, well, Maggie and Nina, specifically. Also, are Maggie and Nina's characters named- like, their actors are named Maggie and Nina also?
C: Yeah, the actors are Nina Sosanya and Maggie Service. Neil Gaiman said he did that because he wanted them for the roles really badly, [G laughs] and he thought that by making the character names the actor names, like, Amazon wouldn't make him cast someone new.
G: Oh, that's sweet. I think that's sweet.
C: Yeah, I mean, both of them were nuns last season, and Shax is played by the actress for Madame Tracy.
G: Yeah! For Madame Tracy. I actually- like, Nina acts so different that, like, I did not recognize at all for a while until like, I remembered what you said that like, "Oh, she's in Season 1 and 2 of-" what's that?
C: Good Omens? [both laughing] The show Good Omens?
G: [laughs] But she is, she is in Season 1 and Season 2. And I was like, "Oh. It's her." But I recognized Madame Tracy's actor immediately, but like, not because it's like, not well-acted or anything. I was just like, "That looks familiar," and then I Googled it and I figured out. But what I was saying was, the way the characters are this episode, the way they speak, it is a lot less stilted, and I think that also contributes to the different vibe of this season, like, last season, you know, whenever Pepper spoke, Adam, like, the Youngs. Like, anyone, anyone who is a human being, whenever they spoke, it was very obviously, "There's a gimmick, and they are acting accordingly to how they would because of the gimmick," but this season, I feel like they are just acting like people like you said they would last episode. So, quite nice.
C: Yeah. Yeah. And the women are not saying, "I'm a woman!" to the camera every second.
G: Yeah!
C: So there were a few improvements in that section. I don't like how Maggie is directed, though.
G: We'll get into it. Well, we go to the shop, and Aziraphale gets a note from the mailbox, and the note says, "Dear Mr. Fell, There is something about which I need to speak with you with on a matter of some-" and then urgency, but, like, misspelled. "Yours very faithfully, Maggie."
C: Why did they point out the misspelling so hard and so raw? Like, are we on a Google+ forum, like, as 11-year-olds in middle school trying to one-up each other in a comments section of a fandom post? Like, I don't think misspelling jokes have been funny for like, ten years.
G: Yeah, but you see, Aziraphale is the kind of asshole who will-
C: [laughing] Who would read it out loud and pretend to not understand what it's saying.
G: Yeah. Defi-fucking-nitely. So you know what? I'll give them a pass. We cut to the record shop. We go to a record shop-
C: Oh, the background music during this scene is "You Don't Own Me" by Lesley Gore, who also did the "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" song.
G: Whoo! And you would cry too if it happened to you.
C: Wouldn't you also. And she's a lesbian, which I think was probably a purposeful choice.
G: Why is that- Why? No no no-
C: Just 'cause Maggie's a lesbian?
G: No, like, how do you know?
C: How do I know that Lesley Gore is a lesbian?
G: Ah! [laughing]
C: She said it? What? What do you mean?
G: [laughing] Nevermind. 'Cause you said, "And she's a lesbian," and I was like, "Well, I know that. Maggie is a lesbian, probably-"
C: [laughing] No, Lesley Gore.
G: "- but like, is there like, anywhere in the episode where they put like, a lesbian flag on her or something?" So yeah.
C: Oh, Maggie. I mean, we know she's into women, but
we don't know that she's exclusively-
G: Yeah. Could be bisexual.
Aziraphale enters, and Maggie is like, "Oh."
C: She's crying, but like, actor-crying, 'cause it's like, you don't even see anything on her face after she stops actor-crying. Like, at least when Anathema was crying in Season 1, like, her eyes remain wet, and you could see tears on her lashes, and she was like, sniffling. Like, Maggie's got nothing going on. I don't know if that's Maggie Service's fault or like, hair and makeup's fault, but like, I think it did immediately make me go, "I don't think I'm going to see this character as like, that strongly a real person to me."
G: We established here that the lockdowns happen, so, COVID, baby. I don't like that.
C: That COVID happened?
G: I mean, in general, yeah-
C: [laughing] It'd be great if people didn't die, yeah. What?
G: When TV shows do the whole, "And there was COVID," I do feel like "Oh, come on."
C: You feel like the Good Omens world is removed enough from ours, like, the Apocalypse didn't happen here, so it doesn't make sense for them to continue with the history of our current selves or whatever you mean?
G: Yeah, I suppose so. Like, it feels disconnected enough from our world, our universe.
C: I mean, the fucking lockdown video happened in a kind of canon limbo, I suppose.
G: She's saying that she can get the hell out of there in like, two weeks.
C: 'Cause she can't pay rent.
G: Yeah, 'cause she can't pay the rent. And Aziraphale is doing the thing where it's like, "Oh, well, it's not your fault that you are not paying rent because I'm not collecting," and, you know, stuff like that. He just goes towards the end, like, "I'll just take these records that I requested from you, and, you know I won't pay for it, and that'll be your rent." I found that so interesting, because, like, whenever we see Aziraphale trying to do good, it's always like, "They can't do it because, like, there's a bad thing that-" like, you know, it's not like, Heaven's orders or whatever. But now it's like, not even like, a Heaven mandate to not forgive rent or whatever. But he still does this because it's like, to save Maggie some face or something, which I quite like.
C: Is it? Huh. I think I had a very uncharitable reading of Aziraphale during this- both of them during the scene, because Maggie was being like, a total bootlicker loser. Like, every time he was like, hinting that it's fine that she didn't pay rent, she's like, "No, I must! I must lose my business right now, oh, you landlord, you!" and I don't know, I feel like- I just think that should read "Justice and the Limits of Charity" by David Hilfiker. It's a pretty short article. And then I think Aziraphale should read Evicted by Matthew Desmond, which is a longer book. And then maybe he should like, just sign the fucking lease over to Maggie. Like, the only reason I can see for him doing this that's kind is that he doesn't want her to have to pay the property tax on this place, so like, this is like, more free if he keeps doing this. But like, this is clearly something that's like, eating at her.
G: It's bothering her, yeah.
C: It's not like he's like, "Okay, and your rent will be zero." It's like, every single month, she does the whole "I can't pay! Oh my god, you're gonna kick me out!" thing, and he's like, "Nah. For one month, you can stay on." [G laughs] You know? It's like, stupid. I just- it's not a good thing. Like, the thing about forgiveness and charity is that it is at the whim of the person in power, and Aziraphale's continuing to wield that power, he's just being like, benevolent about it, which like, isn't a guarantee of having the shop the way that signing the land over to her would be so. So, it's annoying. I'm annoyed. You can't read this fic yet until the end of Season 2, but in "long distance" by thingswithwings, which is one of my favorite post-Season 2 fics, there is a scene where Crowley signs ownership of all the shops on Whickber Street over to the owners, so there. I think that something that you- that I would would point out is when Maggie says, "You can't just forgive me eight months' rent!" Aziraphale goes, "Oh, I can. I'm very good at forgiveness. It's one of my favorite things." [laughs] Which seems like, it will be relevant and is relevant. [G laughs] We've talked about forgiveness in Season 1 already, and there sure will be a line that happens in Season 2, won't there?
G: I guess. [laughs] It's so bad! I hate this- remember how I watched Season 1, Episode 1, and immediately was like, "I need to watch the next season immediately afterward."
C: You're like, dreading watching the next episode?
G: I am. I don't want to! Jesus Christ.
C: Okay. I think that you're going to like some of the next episode.
G: Ugh! Okay.
C: Or you'll like, hate it so bad it's unreal. It's gonna be like, one of those. But I don't know.
G: [laughs] Opposite ends of the spectrum. Yeah, why not?
C: I think that there's a possibility that you're going to like some of the next one. Yeah, okay. Three things I like. Costume and set design. Maggie is dressed like if a gingerbread woman was like, turned human.
G: Yeah, I do love her outfit. I love her outfit.
C: Which is pretty fun. Her shop is fun. Like, her desk, like, there's the front of an entire truck on it, so like, once she's standing behind it, it's like she's behind the wheel of a truck or something. I think that's cool. And then I do, from a character perspective, enjoy that Aziraphale bought and legally owns, like, a lot of this land in Soho, which I think he's had since, like, the 1700s because I think it shows that he like- I think it's, okay, his love of like, material goods and human things. It also shows that he sort of wants to have assets that aren't dependent on his powers, or like, being in the good graces of Heaven. Like he will always have some kind of an income source or whatever, and like, a place to stay by owning this property.
G: Unlike Crowley.
C: Yeah, exactly, unlike Crowley, who like, lives in his car now 'cause that's the only thing that they own.
G: Well, Crowley has that banger watch. [C laughs] He can sell it, you guys.
C: That's true. [both laughing] Yeah, exactly. Does Aziraphale have a cool watch? No? Okay, I think we know who won this one.
G: I mean, it is a beautiful watch, though, is the thing.
C: It is a very nice watch. I think the fact that he bought this land in the 1700s, like, I don't know how conscious it was, it was probably some kind of a subconscious thing, but it didn't mean that he sort of did want a contingency plan for if he falls out with Heaven entirely, to me, at least. And the third thing I love is that as Aziraphale sort of spins his way out the door, like, giving Maggie a smile and a giddy little laugh, I'm hit again with the realization that, like, people around him in Soho know him, like him, and also definitely see him as gay. And that's a lovely thing. That's a lovely thing. They like him and feel safe around him, and he is gay to them.
G: I think it's wonderful that like, he's an institution in this place, you know? Like, he is Mr. Fell, and everybody knows him. And I do wonder, like, I mean, he has acted this way throughout his entire existence. So like, where people just like, "Oh, yeah. His father is also gay, and his grandfather's also gay, and the one before that's also gay-" [laughing]
C: [laughing] Yeah. "How do they keep getting kids that look exactly like them? Like, I guess they're just really good at fucking trans guys." [G laughs]
G: For fucking real.
C: Yeah. Yeah, it's nice.
G: I like Aziraphale. I like that people know him. I don't know.
C: I don't think anyone in Crowley's apartment, like, ever talked to her once, so it's nice that Aziraphale has this. And [laughs] Crowley has fucking nothing right now. Crowley's having the worst life in the world. [G laughs] Sorry, girl.
-
C: Crowley's sitting in St. James's Park. Her hair is atrocious, you guys.
G: It's not that bad.
C: This new hair dye, it's not good. Last season, he looked like he could just sort of be a redhead. This season, it's fully like, "What if you juiced a plum and then like, mixed it with Kool-Aid, and then like, dunked your head in it." Which, like, I mean, I don't know. I feel like Crowley did that thing where you change your hair over the pandemic, so if you hate it, you can go back to how it was before, and no one has to see it, but like, then, like, he just got stuck with it. Sorry, girl. But you think it's fine?
G: I like it.
C: You like it better than the previous season?
G: I mean, depends on what you mean by previous season. If we're saying like, Episode 1-
C: I guess short hair previous season, 'cause, you know, long hair previous season trumps all.
G: Yeah. God! I looked up "Crowley hair" on- ah! [laughs] Sorry. I looked up "Crowley hair" on Google, and now I'm looking at a picture of Crowley wearing his hair with the little half pony, and it's so wonderful. I love you so much.
C: Yeah. She's sitting in the park. There's like, a joke bit about how some government secret agent sits next to them and thinks that like, they're who he's meeting with. Whatever. And also, he's reading a newspaper with the headline, "Is Tadfield the Best Village in England?" which I guess means that Adam has continued making it nice there. Shax appears. I love Shax's voice.
G: I do as well.
C: She has a very specific way of talking, which I find quite fun. And so basically, we learn that four years after the Apocalypse, Crowley is still regularly meeting with someone from Hell. She's brought Crowley's mail, so Crowley no longer has an apartment, which is so miserable. Like, he went through COVID in his car. No wonder he's depressed. We learn that Crowley's bills get sent to Hell's finance office, which is so funny, like, Crowley, you can miracle money, but yeah, I guess she relies on Hell to pay for gas and electricity. So they're talking, and Crowley notices the agent from earlier is feeding ducks bread, and goes like, "Don't give them bread, you idiots! Ducks shouldn't eat bread!" but ignores when Shax asks what you should give ducks.
G: I hated that part so much.
C: Yeah, it's a bit much. Crowley asks if Hell knows that Shax is checking in with her, and Shax doesn't really reply directly, just says that, you know, I have your role now. Hell doesn't care how jobs get done. They just care that somebody does them, which like, so is Crowley sort of acting like, as a consultant for her in any way? Or is it just like, exchanging information occasionally?
G: I don't know. Maybe she just cares?
C: Who's she in this situation?
G: Shax. Why not?
C: Okay. Cares about what?
G: About Crowley!
C: She does? [both laugh]
G: Well, why not? Why the fuck not?
C: Sure. Why not? Right after this, Crowley just sort of looks off and goes, "Do you ever think, what's the point? What's the point of it all? Heaven, Hell, demons, angels... it's all, well, pointless." Crowley, if you were an Uber driver- [laughs] I really think-
G: You will be funemployed.
C: Yeah. This is sad, though. I am sad. Like, yeah. They don't have a job anymore. They don't have anything to do. Like, they don't even feel comfortable enough with Aziraphale to tell him that, like, they lost their apartment. Like, yeah, what is even going on? Yeah. Crowley asks for information from Shax, and she mentions that something's going up in Heaven, and "If you get wind of anything through your contact in the bookshop, let me know." Which, yeah, I think this is where we realize like, "Oh, this meeting is 'cause, despite the entire holy water gambit last season, Crowley still doesn't trust that they're safe." Like, he's keeping an ear to the ground constantly and still following like, the same patterns as he did four years ago. Like, yeah. And the contact in the bookshop thing is like, well, yeah, I mean, it's like, oh, like, he's also hiding that he's friends with Aziraphale from Hell still. And I mean, that's probably so that like- They were like, at the airfield together, like, Beelzebub would know that they're like, at least allied. But I guess, like, them being friends is still too much. 'Cause- I don't know. Like, what's the reasoning here? Just like habit, and then like, fear that then they'll figure out that they switch bodies and then like-
G: I think sometimes, it's just very difficult to get out of a situation that has been going on for a long time.
C: Yeah. So miserable. It's been four years, and Crowley doesn't feel safe, doesn't feel happy. Like, the whole, like, "on our own side" thing, like, means that she can hang out at the bookshop some more, but like, that's about it. Like, yeah, nothing that she wanted from her life is happening. And yeah. Sorry, babe!
G: This episode made me so sad about Crowley, I started fucking quoting Antigone to myself. [laughs] Like, I legitimately, was like, sitting there like- What's that Antigone quote? The one that's like, "All of this, just to be here, like a man, as you said, and so happy to just be alive," and like, that is what's happening with Crowley right now. Like, all of that, just to be grateful to just be alive. Ugh!
C: Aghh. God, it's so miserable. It's so miserable.
G: Okay, let's talk about why they didn't tell Aziraphale. Is- I don't know. What do you think? Is it like, shame?
C: Why Crowley didn't tell Aziraphale? Yeah. First off, I think that Neil Gaiman actually needs to show things in canon instead of answering Tumblr asks. [G laughing] But because I read his Tumblr asks, I know that he said that Crowley never told Aziraphale that she lost the flat. So okay, fine. I've read that, so now I guess I have to think of it as canon. I don't have to, but like, it's in my brain already. I mean, I think I already told you that like, due to just projecting my own communication style onto Crowley, it just seems like a "When it first happened, it didn't seem big enough of a deal to bother Aziraphale about it, and then, after a few months had passed, like, every time it could have come up in conversation, it's like, 'Well, if I say I lost my flat, he'll be like, "When did you lose your flat?" and I'll have to be like, "Five months ago." So I'm just gonna continue lying my ass off about it.'" But I don't know if that's Crowley's communication style. What do you think?
G: I think because- I don't know. The way they talk about how they carved a life out for themselves together, it's like, I don't know. Maybe it's like, preservation of the whole- I'm not saying that Crowley regrets saving the Earth or whatever, but like, with the way it is presented here, it feels like Aziraphale didn't really sacrifice that much, and Crowley had to sacrifice so much, and I just feel like if that is the case for me, I wouldn't want the other person to know, because I wouldn't want them to feel guilty. And also, it's such a reveal of like, "This is what I was willing to lose." So maybe it's like, showing your heart on your sleeve a little bit too much. God, Crowley makes me so miserable this episode.
C: Yeah. It's also the fact that he never bothered finding a new apartment, though. Like, why not?
G: I don't know. It's very difficult to find an apartment, you guys. [both laugh] There's like, a minimum salary and stuff. I mean, I know-
C: Yeah. No, yeah. I mean, he can do miracles, though. I don't know. They say something later that makes me wonder, like, if they aren't- like, Aziraphale's not doing miracles anymore. It's hard. I don't know. Yeah, anyway, but I feel like what people on the Internet-
G: You can Photoshop, I feel like. You can Photoshop. You can Photoshop like, [laughing] a fucking-
C: Offer letter, yeah.
G: - I don't know, employment certificate or whatever.
C: Yeah, you can. But yeah, I think that what people have said on Tumblr that I think I agree with is just that, like, I mean, we see here that like, Crowley does not feel safe, and maybe like, it feels better to be living in your car where you can always run away. Like, it's the equivalent of having the packed suitcase under your bed.
G: Yeah. And, you know, Crowley doesn't have similar needs, so like, doesn't need to shower or whatever, doesn't need- So like, it's not the same as a person living out of their car. Like, a human being.
C: Yeah. He doesn't even have a TV in the car, though. Like, what are you doing all day, Crowley?
G: Looking at his beautiful watch, probably. [laughing]
C: Probably! And yeah.
G: What is that watch? I'm gonna Google it while you speak.
C: I think it was custom-made, probably, for the show. Shax asks if Crowley has any info for her, and Crowley doesn't answer. He says, "Frozen peas. That's what you feed ducks. They love them, and it's good for them, too."
G: Franck Muller Vanguard watch.
C: How many thousands of dollars is it?
G: It is $6800 for sale from a trusted seller on chrono24.com. [laughs]
C: Should have been $6900,
G: $6800. I'm going to [overlapping] convert that. Yeah. [laughs] It's not that bad. Like, for an expensive watch, that's not super expensive.
C: I guess I don't really know how luxury goods are priced. I know that there exists a purse that's $10,000 dollars, but that's it.
G: Expensive watches are ungodly expensive. Also, the way this Redditor says it is "This is the yachting watch," which is honestly hilarious, and I don't know why. Why is it funny? I wanna know.
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G: Our next scene features Maggie going into the coffee shop, and, you know-
C: Give Me Coffee or Give Me Death is the name of the shop.
G: Nina is there, and Nina is played, again, by the actress who played- what the fuck was her name?
C: Sister Mary Loquacious, also known as Mary Hodges.
G: Yeah, Sister Mary Loquacious.
C: Yeah, and I think it is fun that, like, you know, Maggie Service played that other nun, and they were the ones who did the wink during the baby exchange, and in the book, they were the ones that Mr. Young thought were lesbians. And, you know what? Now they're back. being lesbians.
G: We learn that Nina kind of recognizes Maggie as a regular, and that she orders a skinny latte. I don't know. A bit of banter.
C: The banter is just like, "I think your business is stupid." "Hello, you're a regular at my coffee shop. You work in that business, right? That business sucks!" [laughs] Like, I just don't think they're friendly enough for this to be like, a fun, okay conversation to have. Or I don't know. I think it's a bit mean.
G: I don't think Nina is particularly being portrayed as friendly. I think that's the intention, so.
C: Yeah. Yeah. And like, she disparages the record shop, like, twice more this episode, and it's like, I don't really see how this could go anywhere that good, romance-wise. And you know what? It doesn't.
G: I don't know. Outside, there's car honkings, and, you know, Nina and Maggie notice this. And we go out, and it's John Hamm [laughs], aka Gabriel, naked, walking down the street, holding a box. It's dick in a box. [C laughs] I don't know. The thing is, all the Gabriel bits this episode go on for so long. So long.
C: Yup. It's annoying.
G: So yeah. Walking through Soho, walking through the street.
C: Everyone's staring.
G: Yeah, all cars are stopped. Everybody's on the fucking streets. He goes to Aziraphale's place.
C: Yeah. Aziraphale’s been having a lovely time with the Shostakovich record. I love that he has his little glasses on when he's listening to music. [G laughs] Like, he has his eyes closed, and he's conducting-
G: He's just like me for real.
C: - but he still has his glasses on. He's like, "I wanna see the music better." Also, he's sitting with like, his legs crossed, which I think is very nice, 'cause I feel like in- like, whenever he's like, on a bench in Season 1 or whatever, right, it's like, both feet planted firmly on the ground, like, hands in lap, but like, he's chillaxin' now!
G: Gabriel shows up in Aziraphale's door. Aziraphale comes out. There's this whole bit. I don't know. Gabriel hugs him.
C: Yeah. But I mean, what is going through Aziraphale’s head right now? Like, do you have any thoughts on his reactions here?
G: Surprised.
C: 'Cause like, we see him do giant gasps about like, anything in Season 1. Like, how fucking scared is he, though, right now, right? Like, we're to assume that this is his first time coming into contact with Heaven since, like, four years ago. Like, did he think that was gonna be the end of it, or is this like, "I figured that this was like, I was like, on a time-" whatever. You know, what is his immediate reaction, emotion-wise?
G: Surprise. [laughing]
G: Yeah, I guess. I guess he's surprised. But, like, [G laughing] you know what I'm asking, though, right?
G: [laughing] Yeah! Well, what I'm trying to say is like, I don't think there's any room to think in this situation. Gabriel is in front of you, completely naked.
C: Yeah. The primary point of the scene is "Isn't it funny that John Hamm is naked?" I feel like they didn't think that much about what Aziraphale's going through. Aziraphale also like, looks down at Gabriel's dick, like, way more times than necessary.
G: I was thinking whether Gabriel- what's the term? Manifested-
C: Made an effort?
G: Yeah.
C: Yeah, I don't know.
G: I feel like maybe Nina and Maggie would comment if it was like a Ken doll.
C: Yeah.
G: Gabriel has forgotten things. Everything, actually. [laughs] I don't know why I said things. Yeah. And then Aziraphale lets him in. That's what happens.
C: What does everyone think is going on? Is this like, a situationship's, like, grand gesture after a breakup?
G: No.
C: Like, if you saw this, what would you think was going on?
G: I would think, "Poor guy, something must be wrong." Like, mentally, with this guy.
C: Yeah, yeah. Like, probably, like, this is a family member, and they're like, going through something mental health-wise. Yeah. They've showed up to Aziraphale's for shelter.
G: At the end of it, there's like, a moment between Maggie and Nina, where it's like-
C: Just so unfunny.
G: Maggie makes a joke that is so not funnay! And then, like, you know, they laugh a bit about it, but like, a bit awkwardly. And Maggie introduces herself, and Nina does as well, but like, very snappily.
C: Yeah. She says, like, she basically tells Maggie that she doesn't need to know her name after Maggie introduces herself. I wish that we got more of what Aziraphale's thinking. It's like, I can't tell from his face.
G: This is what I'm saying.
C: Yeah, what's happening? Like, is it like, does he think that this is a trick at first? Or like, is he taking all the forgetting everything at face value? Is he like, snapping back into like, soldier mode? What is- yeah, what's happening in his head?
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C: In Heaven. Michael's on the phone with an unfamiliar voice, but later, we realize that it's Beelzebub with a new actor. And she's just saying that whoever helped Gabriel escape will be met with "Extreme sanctions. Book of Life." Back at the bookshop, Gabriel's been put in a towel or like, a blanket that he continues wearing for the entire episode is- Aziraphale did not want to give him any of his clothes. He's made him a hot chocolate. There's like, a questioning scene that drags on for an incredibly long time, and I'm not gonna reenact it because it's so unfunny, and it drags on for so long, but like, anyone who hasn't seen the episode, I just need you to understand that it's like, it takes forever, and it sucks. But yeah, again, it's just that he doesn't remember anything at all. And he says that he felt compelled to come to the shop. He says, "You know what it's like when you don't know anything at all, and yet you're totally certain that everything would be better if you were just near one particular person?"
G: And Aziraphale does a-
C: At first he's like, sort of lost in the sentence, it seems like. He's like, smiling slightly to himself. And then he quickly startles, and goes, "No! Certainly not!" And then he literally like, jumps up out of his chair and backs away, and goes, "I have no idea what that feels like! What makes you say that?" which is like, maybe he does think it's a trick right now, right? or something? Like, he thinks that this is like, some kind of thing to throw him off balance and like, surveil him. So yeah, one thing I will say about the Season 2 trailer [laughs] is that this line that Gabriel says is in the trailer, and it is a voiceover. I give you one guess for what it's a voiceover over.
G: What?
C: It's Aziraphale and Crowley like, cheersing each other like, and smiling at each other at a table.
G: Man, who give a shit? [laughs] I hate trailers so much.
C: I give a shit in that, when I watched it, I was like, "Great. More bait. Looking forward to being baited so hard some more," [laughs] and then the kiss dropped.
It's sad that he's still so scared. And other thing Gabriel reveals is that there's something terrible that's gonna happen to him, and coming here was the only way to prevent it. And we eventually find out that, like, he was bringing something there to prevent it, and that it was probably in the box, and that he like, carried over here, and Aziraphale heads out to get said box.
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C: So Crowley's like, in the Bentley. It's like, parked on this cobblestone street where we see it later, so it seems like Crowley sort of has a permanent spot for it.
G: Parking spot, yeah.
C: So Shax calls, Crowley picks up and is like, "Hey, like, some advice. Either call or appear mysteriously. Don't do both." And the camera swivels around and shows that Shax is also there. And I think it is fun that, like, they're giving her advice, like, you know, Crowley's searching for purpose in wherever, and if like, currently, that means like, training his replacement like, oh, well. So be it. Shax gives an update that the whatever's up with Heaven involves Gabriel, and Crowley goes, "Oh, no! His Royal smugness is in trouble. That's so sad." while like, quirking up his mouth. And yeah, I feel like Crowley didn't get over what she saw during the body swap. The way Aziraphale got over what he saw at the body swap, so yeah, no. Crowley fucking hates Gabriel's ass. And then, you know, Shax doesn't understand sarcasm. Crowley says they'll work on it, and Shax disappears. At the book shop, I don't know, there's like, a scene where, like, Gabriel goes like, "You're funny. I love you." Okay. And Aziraphale's like, "Thank you. I... mmh!" Which yeah, Aziraphale's just like me for real, except I do usually go through with saying it back even if I don't want to. Aziraphale's right for not doing it.
And then Aziraphale sort of- Gabriel picks up that Aziraphale keeps calling him Gabriel, and Aziraphale says, "No, no, no, you've gotta go by Jim."
G: Yeah. [laughs] I actually- I did laugh, finally, at the "Jim, short for Gabriel." And Aziraphale going like, "No no no. Jim is short for James."
C: He goes, "James, long for Jim, and short for Gabriel."
We cut to Crowley rushing to Soho in the car, and we finally see that the plants are in her backseat. That's nice.
G: Also, they do the same, like, zoom-in from Episode 5.
C: Ah, yeah. And Aziraphale's calling like, "Hey, can we meet up?" but like, Crowley's already driving. So was Crowley already planning to tell Aziraphale the news about Gabriel, and now, like, there's just a call coming? I don't know.
G: No. Probably. I don't know.
C: I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. They have a fun exchange where Aziraphale's like, "Hello! It's me. Don't say anything." and then pauses and goes, "Are you there?" And Crowley's like, [G laughs] "Should I say something now?"
G: [giggling] Yeah. Look how like, the entirety of this episode, in present day, I was like, so completely silent, no reaction whatsoever, and now they're talking, and I'm giggling, twirling my hair. But like, literally! Whenever they're together, it's so much fun!
C: It is. It is. In Heaven, there's a match box on the ground, and the editing makes sure to highlight the words on the side, which are "Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out." from Job 41:19. Do you know the context of that line? Does that- Is there anything there? No?
G: No, I don't know, yeah. I meant to look it up. Like, when I first watched this episode, I was like, "I should reread the Book of Job, probably." But like, I didn't, so, tough luck! I was too busy being absolutely miserable.
C: I understand. We meet a new angel, who, we later find out, is Muriel, who touches the matchbox and freaks out.
G: I love the styling of Muriel so much. So cute.
C: I mean, I like their outfit. I don't like their hair very much.
G: Aw. I think it fits!
C: I don't- I just think there's a lot of bad hair this season. Like, Michael's hair? Bad. Muriel's hair?
G: I like it!
C: You like Michael's hair?
G: No, I like Muriel's hair. And also, their shoes are quite wonderful. I like them. I like them a lot.
C: Oh, yeah, fun shoes. I agree. I agree about the shoes.
G: Wonderful shoes.
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C: In Give Me Coffee or Give Me Death, this dramatic music's playing as Crowley like, zooms into Soho and sits down at the table. Aziraphale is not forthcoming about what's happening. I feel like it's because he's afraid Heaven's surveying him. What I don't get is- okay. What happens, right- Aziraphale's like, "Oh, shit! Gabriel's in my shop. I need to call Crowley for help. Crowley, meet me at this coffee shop so we can talk without Gabriel being here." And then in the coffee shop, he's like, "I'm not gonna say a single fucking thing. And then I'm just gonna go back to the bookshop that I was trying to get away from without explaining the situation to Crowley at all." Like, what was the point of meeting in the coffee shop?
G: Crowley does need to be told that, like, there is something going on, so brace yourself.
C: He could have said that on the fucking phone!
G: In terms of the whole like, "I'm not gonna tell you anything," I actually like that. I like that. Haven't you done that with anyone? Like, instead of telling them something, you like, make them guess, but like, not like, as a fun thing, but like, because you cannot say the thing?
C: Yeah. But like, he doesn't even have Crowley guess.
G: No! Crowley is like- no, it's like, "You ask me, and I will answer, but I won't say it directly," which is very much a thing for them.
C: Sure. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. It just seemed-
G: Contrite.
C: Like, the change of set just seemed- yeah, it was just very trivial.
G: They're just trying to incorporate this fucking coffeeshop.
C: Yeah, exactly. It's just so that like, Crowley and Nina can meet, and also like, we know that Aziraphale and Nina can like, see each other. There's not a point to it. They very easily could have just-
G: Well, because they did that whole bit with John Hanm being naked, and there needs to be some acknowledgement from Aziraphale and Crowley, I feel like that's the thinking. Like, "We need to have a situation where Crowley is made aware that [laughing] Gabriel was naked on the streets of Soho." Yeah. So like, they had to put this scene in. 'Cause it's not like, I don't think, you know, Aziraphale will volunteer that information. So it needs to be revealed by another person.
C: I think if Crowley went in and saw that Gabriel was wearing a sheet, he would just automatically be like, "Well, that's your blanket. Was he naked?"
G: Well, obviously, Crowley is not in a mindset where that is the first thing, you know, he would ask.
C: That's fair. That's fair. Crowley asks, "What's wrong?" Aziraphale's like, "How'd you know that there's something wrong?" And Crowley goes, "You have three reasons for calling me. You're bored, you need to tell someone about something clever you did before you pop, or something's wrong. This was your 'something's wrong' voice." And he does a little Aziraphale voice imitation on the words "something's wrong." That's sweet. Oh, to be known. Oh, to be loved. But- I don't know. Do you have thoughts on this line?
G: Don't even.
C: You don't give a shit?
G: No, [laughing] I was gonna say, "They don't even love each other!" which is such a mean thing to say. I'm just kidding.
C: Whoa! Wait, what do you mean? [G laughs]
G: [laughing] No, I'm just- I'm fucking going through it. I'm fucking going through it.
G: Okay. Is it just because of the ultimatum?
G: Let's talk about it when we get to it.
C: Yeah, okay, okay, okay. I feel like some people have read this line as like, "Oh, Crowley thinks that like, he only exists to be useful to Aziraphale" or something, like-
G: No!
C: Yeah, exactly. I think that this is like, perfectly cute and fine and lovely. Like, yeah. You do call your friends when you're bored. Like, yeah.
We get a hint of Aziraphale also missing Heaven, where he says, "It's nice to tell someone about the good things you've done now that I'm not reporting to Heaven." These two truly are praise kink 4 praise kink. I am surprised that we don't get more of this from him this season or this episode. 'Cause like, it was a huge part of his identity that he was an angel, and he was on the side of good, and supposedly doing good things all the time. So like, this line makes sense, like, he would want outside reassurance about that. But like, I don't- it's strange that didn't come into play with his decision to help Gabriel, or anything like that.
G: Well, what do you mean? 'Cause there is definitely that aspect of, "He's trying to be a nice and kind person to Gabriel right now."
C: Yeah, I guess it's more like- I guess I'm more asking about like, him dealing with the loss of his identity as like, an angel who works for Heaven, specifically. I feel like that wasn't part of the Gabriel thing.
G: Why would it be?
C: I don't know. I just- like, the fucking Amazon Prime summary for Aziraphale's character like, ends with like, "He feels like Heaven could do with a great deal of improvement, but he loves God and the ideals of Heaven, and will do everything in his power to do good." And I don't know if, like, the ideals of Heaven are like, something we see him thinking much about in this episode.
G: Yeah.
C: I mean, it's good that he doesn't think about it in this episode, but I guess I was expecting more about him dealing with his new existence without his job.
Nina comes up and takes their orders. Crowley orders a cup with just six shots of espresso in it. Aziraphale orders Eccles cakes 'cause he wants something that'll calm people down. Nina asks about how Aziraphale's "naked man friend" is. I mean, basically, Aziraphale's just like- Well, Crowley's like, "Naked man friend?" and Aziraphale's like, "Well, he's certainly not naked anymore." Does Crowley at any point think this is a human hookup, or is he just immediately like, "There must be something else going on." Like, what's going on in his head?
G: I don't think he thinks there's a human hookup situation. I don't know!
C: Mm. I don't know. He probably doesn't think it's a human hookup. Like, 'cause he asks if it's related to the-
G: I mean, Aziraphale obviously calls Crowley for something that is- you know. Like, something is happening. So like, I think it's easy to connect the dot that, like, "a naked man showed up in front of the bookshop," also, "something is happening" is related.
C: Yeah, probably. But yeah, Nina smiles and goes, "You're a dark horse, Mr. Fell." They all think he's gay, 'cause he is. Isn't that nice? Nina, like, asks about Crowley, and Aziraphale says, "This is Crowley. He and I go back a long time." And that's nice. He's not denying that they're friends anymore. He's not saying "This is my friend, Crowley" but like, whereas before, not saying "friend" felt like, it was like, covering up "friend," not saying "friend" here feels like it's covering up like, "There is, like, other things beyond friendship going on right now." So yeah. It's very different from "I've never even met him" in 1601. It's nice that Aziraphale is okay with saying certain things now. But yeah, like you said- or it's like, Crowley's asking the questions. 'Cause Crowley's like, "I heard something's going on in Heaven. Do you know about it?" "Like, possibly a little." "Okay. So like, why aren't we talking about in your shop? Is it 'cause of the naked man? Does this have anything to do with why we're not in your bookshop right now?" And then finally, "Is this something I can help you with?" And Aziraphale just sort of shrugs on the last one, and then Crowley downs all six shots of espresso and runs out. Aziraphale follows behind him, taking the entire plate of Eccles cakes.
G: Yeah!
C: Including the plates that Nina owns.
G: Entire plate! Entire plate.
C: Yeah, entire fucking plate. Did they even pay? [G laughing] I don't think they did.
G: God. Would've been so funny if Crowley brought the mug also. Just bring the mug, dude.
C: Yeah. They're just here to fucking steal your ceramic. [G laughs] And while they're going down the street, ugh, cornyass line! Maggie stops Aziraphale and is like, "Oh, Mr. Fell, I just wanted to say about the rent, you're an angel." And Aziraphale's like, "No? Nah." Like, [sighs] okay. Why? You guys could have just not had Maggie Service have to be like, on set for that day. Like, you didn't need that joke.
G: Do they end this- like, Maggie and Nina, do they end this season aware of what Crowley and Aziraphale are?
C: Yeah.
G: Really? Okay.
C: Okay. So Crowley goes, "Doing good, again, angel?" and Aziraphale says, "A purely selfish action. Hardly counts." You're right. It doesn't count, Aziraphale. [both laugh] Maggie goes inside the coffee shop. It is like- Like, Nina's only employee has, like, packed up and left. Like, this is like, past closing hours. Maggie, you're so rude. I know you just wanted to be alone so that you could like, do your whole thing, but like, come on! I mean, it's not good to ask service workers out like, on the job, but it's also not nice to like come in after hours. [G laughs] Like, it's not good. It's very- yeah. Just don't do it, man. So she comes in, says that she wants get to something. Nina does the whole like, "I thought it was my charming personality," blah blah blah. And Maggie's brought her a gift, which is the record for The Best of Nina Simone, even though Nina doesn't own a record player. And she just does this 'cause her name is Nina. [laughing] I would be so annoyed. [G laughing] And you know what? Nina is so annoyed. Like, I don't know. Was she not listening? Like, their last conversation was just Nina going like, "Who the fuck owns records these days? I hate records. I would never have a record player ever in my life." And Maggie's like, "Here you go." But, you know. Whateber. I guess she's just like, awkward, and doesn't think things through entirely, whatever whatever. This is something that would only work if Nina was already into her. And she's not, I don't think.
G: Yeah. I mean, to be fair, the thing is like, if this was not like, during this time, it wouldn't be as bad. But like, what you said, like, I mean, at some point right like, Maggie says, like, "Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't think it through." And Nina's just like, "Look. I just want to go home. And like, you are the last customer. So let's just chop chop." I don't know. It is not a good look.
C: Yeah. She's really inconveniencing her right now. Maggie orders an herbal tea so that she's not up all night. They have an exchange where Nina's like, "Oh, you know, like, we used to party like crazy when we were kids," and Maggie's like, "I never did that, 'cause I'm an Aziraphale parallel. Oh my god!"
G: We never even brought that up. Like, she has like, blonde hair, she dresses up like Aziraphale [laughs], you know. And I don't know. Okay, fine.
C: Fine. [both] Fine. I mean, it's not fine. I'm gonna complain about it a lot in episode 6. [G laughs]
G: Alright.
C: But at least that's like, Nina sort of trying to make friendly small talk, which I guess is what causes Maggie to like, be a little more emotionally open next. But, like, her whole thing is just like, "Oh, I'm so sorry. I shouldn't have brought over the record without asking!" And Nina - I mean, I think Nina fully sees this for what it is, and she's just like, "I have to get home to my partner soon." Like, that's a clear rejection. Like, "Okay, we're done."
G: Yeah. And the way Maggie reacts is like, "Oh. [overlapping] You have a partner?" Shut the fuck up!
C: Like, you're a regular here. You didn't know her name until today. You are not friends. You're not even friendly acquaintances. Like, just like, okay. Get out. The end! Come on!
G: [laughs] Yeah.
C: So yeah. And then Nina starts dropping hints so that her partner kind of sucks, like, 'cause they really don't like it when she's late. And yeah, that's when we cut to the bookshop.
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G: Crowley and Aziraphale enter the bookshop, and like, the first thing Crowley says is-
C: Yes!
G: I wasn't gonna mention it out there.
C: So like, why meet out there, then?
G: Is the bookshop protected?
C: Didn't he already say something's going on with Heaven? Didn't he already say that in the coffee shop that something's going on with Heaven?
G: No, I think the reveal here is not that. It's just that it involved Gabriel.
C: Okay. Sure. Is the bookshop protected? Yes, I think in some ways.
G: Is the bookshop protected? It is?
C: Okay, yeah. But okay, what I was focused on was that the first thing-
G: What do you mean, "Okay, yeah"? Like, the bookshop is protected
C: It's protected from Hell. I don't know about from Heaven.
G: Oh, because sigils and stuff?
C: Yeah, like, in Supernatural. Okay, the reason I said, "yes" excitedly was 'cause I thought you were gonna talk about the first thing Crowley does, which is take off her sunglasses!
G: Take off the glasses. I like that. She puts it in the horse-
C: - on the horse statue, right by the door.
G: I love that. And they make a point of showing that like, when Crowley walks out, that's where he takes it, from the- like, it's like a specific shot where the whole point is to show Crowley taking the glasses from the horse statue, and I liked it.
C: It's so nice. Yeah. 'Cause in Season 1, he keeps them on in the bookshop until, like, he's very drunk, so like, things haven't changed that much for them, but they have changed a little, and I just- I love just the horse statue of it. Like, the horse statue by the door. I don't know if that's like, the designated place for them every time, or Crowley just sort of sets them down wherever, 'cause the next time he comes in, he just like, throws them onto the table dramatically. But like, it's like, when you take off your glasses or sunglasses, in most situations, like, you either put them in like, your pocket, or like, your bag, or like, you like, hook it on your shirt, right? But like, doing this is like, "The only reason I would put these back on is if I left this place." And that's like, what you do when you come home. So yeah. It's nice. It's nice.
G: Aziraphale is closing the blinds by the door. And then Aziraphale goes like, "I think I can actually guess what Hell told you. Is it... Jim?" And like, you know, Crowley's like, "Jim? We know a Jim?" And then, like, in the back, Gabriel is moving to the forefront and says, "Hi," and Crowley is very shocked, very angry, very upset that Gabriel's here. And like, we start
the whole "Crowley is mad, and like, shouting," raising voice, blah blah blah. This is like, a bit where like, they ask, like, "What are you doing here?" and Gabriel's like, "I'm dusting." This episode is so nothing!
C: Well.
G: But we are about to come to the something, which is that we are in our- what? Fourth divorce of the show? [both laughing]
G: 4 over 7. Pretty good number.
G: Aziraphale and Crowley enter like, a backroom of the bookshop.
C: Yeah, the walls are orangey, and they really bring out Crowley's eyes.
G: Yeah, it's lit a specific way. Crowley is, you know, upset, says that we should bring Gabriel away, and Aziraphale is like, "Where are we going to take him?" And Crowley's like, "The taking him somewhere is not the point. It's making sure that he doesn't come back." And Aziraphale is doing the, you know, "Crowley, he's in trouble. We should help him. He said something terrible was going to happen to him." So, you know, and all this time, Crowley is like, "Well, if he's in trouble, then should, you know, get the fuck away. Something terrible is gonna happen? Even more so we should get away," and all that. Crowley finally says, like, the thing that I think bothers them the most, which is that, "This is the angel who tried to kill you. Like, why are you sticking your neck up for this guy. He's not our friend." And Aziraphale says, "I don't think he really has any friends." And Crowley goes, "Well, exactly." And Aziraphale's like, "Yes, yes! Exactly!" And this episode got the second laugh that it got from me when Crowley replies with, "Wait, what does your 'exactly' mean, exactly? I feel like your exactly and my exactly are two different exactlys." [C laughs] And you know what? They are. Aziraphale says, "If he doesn't have any friends, even more so that he needs us." Crowley says [C screams] the line. "What I need is for him to be nowhere near me and the precious, peaceful, [both] fragile existence that I have carved out for myself here." [C screams] It's precious, peaceful, and fragile. Imagine. 6000- more than 6000 years old. You existed before time was a concept. And you now think of your life as something that is precious, peaceful, and fragile. Oh, buddy.
C: Oh, buddy. God.
G: And, you know, Aziraphale says, "I thought we carved it out for ourselves." And Crowley goes, [both] "So did I!" [C screams]
C: Ah! Oh, god. They are so- They don't understand each other right now. It's so- Like, yeah, like, okay, so Crowley's "So did I" shows that like, the fragile part is like, the most important part. Specifically, he thought that, like, this existence, like, the first and foremost most important part about it is like, being safe and that Aziraphale doing this endangers, like, both of them, but like, also like, endangering Aziraphale endangers Crowley emotionally, etc etc. And like, but like, I guess Aziraphale's reading the refusal to help as like, sort of just like, overly focused on self-preservation, and also like, his idea of like, the existence that they would have after the Apocalypse is that like, they would like, do things together, I guess, is like, his main thing, whereas Crowley's is like, "Even if it means being apart, like, safety's number one." Like, they never sat down and like, talked about what they wanted or anything. And now they have to divorce again over it.
G: So Aziraphale, king of ultimatums, [both laugh] truly.
C: Yeah, they were talking for like, a minute. And it's like, "Okay. Well. Are we getting a divorce?" [G laughs]
G: He goes, "If you refuse to help me, then, of course, you're at liberty to go." Liberty to go. You're at liberty to go. Crazy thing to say.
C: It's like, "No matter what, it will be your fault, 'cause I'm just giving you the option."
G: Yeah, no, it's like, offloading the choice to Crowley when like, it is Aziraphale who is, you know, putting that line there of like, "You're either helping me or you're getting the fuck out of here."
C: Yeah, though, like, did he read the "So did I"- 'cause like, I know what the "So did I" means. But like, what does Aziraphale think the "So did I" means?
G: Okay. So like, what is trying to be said with the "I've carved it out for myself here." So after that, Aziraphale says, "I thought we carved it out for ourselves." What you said, like, "We're in it together. We're supposed to do things together and stuff." And I think now, when Crowley says, "So did I," Aziraphale receives it as like, "Well, I thought we were gonna do things together, but I don't wanna do this with you, so fuck off."
C: Yeah, I feel like Aziraphale reads this as- I think he thinks that Crowley rejected him first.
G: [sighs] Yeah. Well.
C: So the ultimatum isn't as mean as you might automatically think. Like, it is like a- "Oh, you don't want this anywhere? Okay, you can go if you want."
G: The thing is, everything I will say onwards, from here on onwards about Aziraphale may seem like I think Aziraphale is a bad person or is doing a bad thing here. He isn't, though. Like, he's doing something hurtful, but like, [laughs] it makes perfect sense for him to be doing this. And they just can't communicate. This is how they talk. They talk in ultimatums, they talk in like, in a tempter-temptee dialog. They just refuse to say what they mean so everything is misunderstood. And I do think Aziraphale is trying. It's just, he gets scared so easily to stop the trying. Because, like, if you actually put your heart on your sleeve like that, and then it gets stomped at anyway, then it's like, a double blow.
C: I mean, do you that he knows that Crowley misunderstands him, though?
G: For which part?
C: I just- whenever it seems like Crowley misunderstands him. I don't know if Aziraphale knows that what he's saying is being taken the way it is.
G: Okay, here's the thing. I think Aziraphale misunderstands Crowley. I don't think, necessarily, that Crowley misunderstands Aziraphale. I think Crowley just takes like, the worst possible way to understand the situation. And, like, the thing is, a lot of the times, the worst possible way to understand the situation is what Aziraphale means it for it to be.
C: But like, at least Aziraphale’s responding to like, an incorrect idea of what Crowley said. So that's still- It's still like, a, "If he knew that I meant this, then like, it means that then, like, there would be a different response." The one-sided misunderstanding begets other side misunderstanding just 'cause it's like, "Yeah, okay, that is what he meant, but like, he wouldn't have actually said that or thought that if-"
G: Meant that if you- yeah.
C: In the tempter-temptee, like, script that they use sometimes, like, it relies on like, Crowley knowing what Aziraphale wanted the whole time, and just like, leading him to it. And like, for that to work out like, Aziraphale has to be- Aziraphale has to assume that Crowley does know what he wants. I feel like Aziraphale thinks that Crowley does understand him pretty well.
G: Definitely. Both of them think that of each other.
C: Yeah. Yeah. So I guess that just compounds the hurt.
G: Yeah. Both of them are like, "You're the person who understands me the most in the world." But like, that doesn't mean shit, you know? Like, the person who understands you most in the world still probably cannot fathom the complexity of your being. Yeah. And like, that's where they keep on bumping. It's like, yes, they are, you know, a mirror for each other to show you who you are, if you forget. But like, they are also their own people, and- What comes after Aziraphale saying, "You're at liberty to go." Is Crowley just looking at him and like, softly going, "To go?" [laughs] Hoo. And he goes, "Alright. This is how you want to do it?" [C winces audibly] which is my best line of this episode. [laughs] "This is how you wanna-" [screams] Saying, "This is how you want to do it?" is like- it's not even like, surprise that it's happening, you know? Crowley isn't like, "Oh my god! You're asking me to go? Like, you want us to separate? What's wrong with you?" It's like, "Ah. This was always going to happen. But this is how you wanna do it? This is how it's gonna happen? We haven't even tried penetration yet!" [C laughing] Yeah. And they haven't.
C: They haven't. [G laughing]
G: Do I need to explain that?
C: Sure, man.
G: "We haven't even tried penetration yet" is my shorthand with myself about like, you know, like, when, you know, you lose something, and you understand that the grief of losing it is so big, and what you lost is so big, but you're like, "I don't wanna think about that, so I'll just think about the fact that I'm sad because we haven't even tried penetration yet." [laughing]
C: And they haven't even tried penetration yet! It's so awful.
G: [laughing] And they didn't! They didn't! God. They haven't!
C: That tire iron did not pierce that scroll at all!
G: Exactly. No, but like, the point- the reason why this scene makes me so emotional is like, it's just waiting for the other shoe to drop, then. Like, four years, right? Four years between this and the Apocalypse that wasn't. So in those four years, like, was Crowley just sitting there like, "Well, a shoe was going to drop at some point. And whether it will drop- I will hope that it will drop towards something nice, something positive. A good change. But if it drops the other direction, I have fully expected it." And this is like, what this line feels like. It's like, "Yeah, it was always going to happen." And, like, you know, like, in Episode 6, Aziraphale does threaten Crowley. The like, "I'm never gonna speak to you again." And we've talked about that sentence a lot last episode. But, like, you know, like, "Was it actually meant?" etc etc. And I was like, "The point isn't that Aziraphale meant it in the moment. The point is that he even said it in the first place. That it was a threat that was willingly made." And, I don't know. I feel like I was Crowley in this situation, I would think to myself like, "Oh, he said he won't ever talk to me again if I don't do- if I didn't do that thing. And I did it. But one day, there is going to be something that I can't do, and there is going to be an ultimatum that I can't possibly fulfill. And that threat is going to be there. This one seems to be it!" Horrible. Devastating.
C: I am more bolstered by the "I don't even like you!" "You do!" I just- I feel like Crowley has more faith in this relationship than I think you do. [G sighs]
G: Faith can only get you so much. The thing is like, that seed is planted, you know? Like, yeah, they have so much history, and yeah, like, you know from what you see in Aziraphale's actions and stuff that he likes you. But like, there are other actions that say otherwise. And they're also happening.
C: Yeah. I mean, I think that Aziraphale should be nicer just for the sake of being fair within the relationship, but I don't necessarily translate that to like, a lot of Crowley insecurity. But, I mean, I can definitely see where your reading comes from, and I feel like Season 2 might be leaning into that more, [G groans] so you may be more correct in the mind of Neil Gaiman, which is, of course, all of our ultimate goals. [both laugh]
G: I think, you know, insecurity is not something that is constant. So like, one moment you can be so sure about someone. And the next, you're like, "Oh. No. I'm not."
C: Yeah. And I guess, like, things like depression can definitely up your insecurity. Yeah, I guess if Crowley spent all this time without stability, constantly looking over their shoulder, like, they probably do rely more on like, "Well, at least there's Aziraphale. Oh god, is there still Aziraphale?" a lot. So yeah, okay. I'm coming around to your side of things. I mean, Aziraphale's point of view, though, he wouldn't do this unless he was sure Crowley was gonna come back, right?
G: I mean, okay, the very next line. Crowley asks, like, "This is how you wanna do it?" The very next line, Aziraphale goes, "No!" [both laugh] He says, "No!" And here, this is what I'm saying earlier, where it's like, Aziraphale, I think, is trying. He is trying. Like, he says here, like, "No, I do sincerely want you to help me. And I'm asking you to help me take care of him." And then we see like, a shot of Crowley's face kind of like, just looking. And I tried to watch it again to see if it's like, a disbelieving look of like "How could you even ask this?" or like, whatever. I couldn't really read it, so. But I guess Aziraphale couldn't either, 'cause he panics, and he goes back to the ultimatum.
C: Yeah, he doesn't give Crowley a chance to respond to the genuine question. He just like, sits down, and goes. "But if you won't, you won't."
G: I mean, I get it. You ask someone like this, sometimes you're scared to even hear whether they'll say yes or no. Like, it's better to just presume it, you know. But, I mean, Aziraphale. Last season, Crowley asked you to run away with them to fucking Alpha Centauri, and you said "No" so vehemently. So like, let Crowley say "No" so vehemently.
C: Well, he does.
G: Well, he does, but like, again, it's the illusion of choice, you know? It's an ultimatum. And like, the way it's presented is, "Oh, but it's your choice if you leave." But, like, the way the conversation is going, Crowley doesn't seem to be presented with an actual choice.
C: Yeah. Though, I mean, I guess again, reiterating that I think Aziraphale thinks that Crowley's already rejected him with the "So did I," so he's just operating off of that place.
G: Just say "Please," man. [C laughs] Please? It works a lot. It works so much more than you expect it to. Say please. So Crowley, you know, gets upset with this and leaves.
C: Yeah, he says, "Yeah, I won't. You're on your own with this one." I'd say this is also a dick move! Like, I know that this is a situation engineered by Aziraphale, but like, [laughs] he could die. I don't know. I don't know.
G: Well, I mean, Crowley isn't that sure about that yet.
C: Yeah, yeah. After a clear and present danger is like, communicated, like, she does leg it back. So, yeah.
-
C: They go outside. They're very, very angry. And the anger's- what? Like, a mix of anger at Gabriel, for, like, all the shit he pulled, and then like, anger at Aziraphale for like, still- like, for what? Like, for being like, too nice for his own good, or like- Is Crowley reading this as like, Aziraphale being too nice that it makes him stupid, or like, still having some kind of loyalty to Heaven? Or like, what's the- Why does he think Aziraphale's doing this?
G: You know what you said earlier, like, Crowley's priority is that they're safe. I think it is very much a matter of "You're going to throw away what we have right now?" I don't think, you know, Crowley is unaware of how big of a deal this is that Gabriel is here and etc etc. But everybody's fucking panicking. And I'm so miserable we don't ever get to see like, a "before the shit goes down." Like, why can't they like, hang out for a bit at the beginning of this episode? And then shit goes down. Like, what are they even like when it's a normal day?
C: Neil Gaiman just was really excited about getting John Hamm naked. He couldn't wait any longer. But yeah, I wish. I wish we got them hanging out
G: Like, what is there to lose now? We don't even know.
C: Agh. I think it's also probably just generalized anger at the universe for like, "Why did this happen to us?"
G: This scene- 'cause you asked me like, when you were asking like, "Why is Crowley angry?" I was like, "There doesn't need to be like, a specific reason for Crowley to be feeling this emotion." And then, at the end of that statement, you pivoted to [laughs] "What does Crowley think Aziraphale is doing?" And that's what I answered. But in terms of what Crowley is angry about, I don't think it's anything specific. It's just frustration at the everything.
C: Yeah, yeah. "Things were okay, and now they're not. What the hell?"
G: Guess again.
C: She goes outside, and she's like seething. All that shit. She tells herself, "Just breathe. That's what humans do. Then they count to 10 before they do anything stupid." Maggie and Nina notice that there's literal smoke coming off of him. And then they say, "Oh, I can't do this! I'm just so angry! 10!" [laughs] and then gets struck by lightning.
G: This is funny. This is funny. This is cute. It's fun.
C: It's fun. Yeah, I love how Crowley's still like, "I need to adhere to that rule somehow. I'm just gonna say 10." And then the lightning that strikes automatically [laughs] turns all the security systems on, which traps Maggie and Nina in the coffee shop-
G: It's so corny.
C: - and also saps all of the juice from their phones. Okay.
G: Damn.
C: If you say so. We get a scene where Michael and Uriel are discussing who's gonna carry out Gabriel's duties now. They're a bit antagonistic, both of them. Michael's being like, "Oh, yeah, you know, like, of course, I'm not trying to replace Gabriel, but like, I am the duty officer, and I think the person in charge should be like, all of us. But led by me." And Uriel seemed more happy with the just "all of us" part of it. And Seraqael appears, and Saraqael's outfit is sort of like, a tracksuit situation, which I think is fun. And Muriel's is- it's like, this pleated skirt, and then I don't remember the top very well, 'cause I just remember the skirt being fun. And then you said that you liked their shoes. What are their shoes?
G: They're gold and white. Very cute.
C: Muriel introduces himself as, "No one. I mean, Muriel! 37th order scrivener." And presents the matchbox to the Archangels. And they're like, both very alarmed, because apparently, it is impossible for a material object to be in Heaven. How did Aziraphale keep his clothes those times, then?
G: Yeah, I don't know. Do you think Muriel is going to be a character I end up liking more?
C: Eh, if you currently don't like them, probably not.
G: Well, I currently like them.
C: Oh, then, sure. [G laughs]
G: Alright! I like that like, you know, they're like, basically the Eric of Heaven now. That's the vibe, right?
C: Kinda. Yeah.
G: I like that. They saw Eric, like, four years ago, and they were like-
C: "Just like me for real."
G: - we gotta get a guy who's like that in here.
C: Yeah. So we see a bit more of the matchbox as Michael fiddles around with it. It's for a pub called the Resurrectionist in Edinburgh. And, you know, she clearly doesn't know what to do with it. She just pokes around at it, and is like, "Okay." And Uriel concludes that Gabriel must have gone to Earth.
-
G: So we go to Crowley, who is like, entering her car and stuff. And as soon as he enters, there's like, bugs everywhere. Flies. And it's, you know, obviously, it's Beelzebub.
C: Yeah. Also, this happens after she hangs up her sunglasses on the car, so now she's in Hell without her glasses, and I feel like all of the times we've seen her there, she has had her sunglasses on. So it must be a disorienting experience.
G: Huh. Really?
C: Hasn't it? Like, every time she's giving a report, I think that she has her sunglasses on.
G: Oh, yes, yes, you're right. Yeah. Beelzebub manifests like, from the flies, but like, as soon as the manifesting ends, they are both in Hell. And they're like, in a- It's like they're in a room that's like, an observation room or whatever. And there's like, you know, demons outside, walking about, but it's just the two of them here. I like that choice, actually, to put them both like, in a place where you can see that there are people buzzing around. Pun not intended. But it's fun. But like, they are separate from the situation.
C: Yeah, they're also sitting on matching thrones.
G: Yeah. I find it fascinating. Because the last time we see, quote "Crowley" in Hell, everybody was threatened as hell, right? I do wonder, what would it be like to like, have Crowley walking around downstairs?
C: Yeah, people would be scared
G: And okay. Beelzebub is played by a different person.
C: Yes, Shelly Conn. When Beelzebub got recast, Danica was like, "Oh, it's 'cause like, Neil Gaiman accidentally said that like, ze was nonbinary on Tumblr, so like, he had to recast her- like, a nonbinary person to play them."
G: Oh, really?
C: But, no. Shelly Conn is not nonbinary. I was like, "No. That's not why. I have no clue why he got like, why he recast Beelzebub. It makes no sense." But, you know, I mean, I like the new actress. You don't?
G: Well, I really like Beelzebub's speaking pattern, and I am a bit sad that it's gone.
C: Yeah. But this new one's also fun. I like the rotting teeth and the way that ze moves like, zir mouth around.
G: I need to be convinced further.
C: Okay.
G: I don't know. Most of this conversation is like, "Oh, yeah, I changed my corporation."
C: Yeah, well Crowley opens with, "I thought we had a generalized understanding," which I think confirms that this is the first time the two of them have talked in four years.
G: Huh. I mean, Crowley is not aware of what- I mean, they must be.
C: Aziraphale told her what the-
G: Yeah. But he wasn't like, actually there to understand what like, the rapport is supposed to look like.
C: Well, yes, but-
G: Do you think there's like, a little bit of panic there?
C: Oh, like, of like, Crowley showing up? Is he panicked right now? Yeah. Or are you asking is Beelzebub panicked?
G: No, no, no. The other way around. If Crowley.
C: I mean, yeah.
G: Obviously.
C: Beelzebub just manifested in their car.
G: Yeah, that's true.
C: Like, brought them down to Hell. Like, are they even gonna get brought back to Earth? Who knows? And this Gabriel thing has just happened, so clearly, like, something is up.
G: If the bookshop is banned from demons-
C: Without invitation.
G: Ah. Well, I mean, Crowley wasn't invited when the bookshop was burning down.
C: Okay, Neil Gaiman answered this on Tumblr, [G laughing] and this is another thing where he loves to gloss over plot points by being like, "They're in love." And everyone's like, "Oh my god, they're in wuv!" But I think- what- I think he said, like, Aziraphale banned it from demons without invitation, like, on day one, but like, Crowley, was never like, part of that. Like, Crowley was like, written into the sigils as like, "He can come in," like, upon the bookshop's building.
G: Banger sigil, that one? Very specific.
C: Yeah, yeah. Just like the one that Melanie Crowley does in "A Glittering Instrument" by malicegeres. [laughs]
G: Hell yeah!
C: Hell yeah.
G: Beelzebub relays that Gabriel has vanished from Heaven, and then, like, Hell wants Gabriel. So like, "Give him to us!"
C: Yeah. I mean, ze offers Crowley like, a big ol', like, a promotion, a raise. Like, "Hell will take you back, no questions asked. How about that?" And Crowley is very noncommittal with every answer. It's like, "I don't think you're gonna do that." "What, Gabriel? I've never- who's Gabriel? I'm sure he's just having fun somewhere. Huh? Okay. Whatever." Like, yeah, he is being nervous and trying not to give info away.
G: Do you think- [sighs] Are you allowed to spoil me? Are you willing to do it?
C: They're- Beelzebub and Gabriel are already in love at this point if that's the-
G: No no no. I don't give a shit.
C: No? Goddammit, did I just spoil you with something you weren't asking?
G: No no no. I don't give a shit about that. Like, Crowley has a strengthening relationship with Hell onwards?
C: No. I don't think so.
G: No? So this offer doesn't go anywhere?
C: No.
G: The threat does.
C: Yeah.
G: Okay. So the offer is Duke of Hell. Blah blah blah. The sanction is Extreme Sanctions, so. And Beelzebub says that this specifically means you will be erased from the Book of Life. And we heard that earlier, but like, I don't know what the fuck that meant. Apparently, it means that you won't just be like, dead. You will be gone from existence like, from the very beginning.
C: Yep. You'll never have existed. You'll be erased from history, etc.
G: Oof. Who? Who gets fucking Booked of Life?
C: Huh? What?
G: Somebody gets Booked of Life in Season 2?
C: No?
G: Okay. [laughs]
C: I cared so much about not spoiling you for Season 1, [both laughing] and now it's just like, "No. Yeah. Mm-hm." [G laughs] But yeah, okay. When Beelzebub brings up extreme sanctions, Crowley goes like, "That's like, not a real thing."
G: Not real, yeah.
C: "Like, that's just something we used to joke about to frighten the cherubs." And I think that- that was fun. And I also think that that- Okay, I mean, that does mean that like, Crowley's probably higher ranking than the cherubs, which I think we could guess sort of from the beginning. And I'm not sure exactly who the "we" are, but I think that maybe implies that he and Beelzebub were friends, or at least acquaintances in Heaven, right? Which is sort of fun. And also, it proves that Crowley remembers his time in Heaven, which includes the opening scene. But, you know.
G: Just because- okay. Listen to me. They're like, random to each other at this point. So like, they don't necessarily have to remember like, "Oh, I was hanging- like, that specific moment, I was with Crowley." "That specific moment, I was with Aziraphale."
C: I just assumed that they had really good memories.
G: Perfect memory?
C: Yeah, like, perfect memory. But I guess there's no proof of that.
G: You can have perfect memory and still not recognize people, I feel.
C: Yeah, it could be like, "Oh, wait, that was you? No way."
G: Yeah, like, "I remember the entire interaction, but I did not connect the dots."
C: Yeah, yeah. I think Aziraphale remembers, though, due to how down bad he was immediately.
G: So horrible.
C: Yeah. Fanfiction-ass episode.
G: Yeah. Anyway, Crowley like, is still talking, but then, like, is back in the car. So RIP.
C: RIP. Crowley is just like, "I don't know anything. But like, yeah, I'll totally tell you if I find out anything."
G: Also, like, the wording here, by the way, isn't like, Crowley, specifically, will be erased. It's that anyone involved will be erased.
C: Yeah, anyone who helps Gabriel.
G: Specifically, Aziraphale in this situation will be.
C: Yeah. And Beelzebub says, like, "Yeah, if you hear anything, come to me first." I mean, yeah, it just ends with Crowley being like, "No, no, no, no, Aziraphale! What have you done?" And then starts driving back.
-
C: So now we're back in the coffee shop. It's dark out. Maggie and Nina clearly have been waiting here for a while because they've made signs to hold up in the window to ask for help and everything. Not working. Maggie is upset about how her store is completely unlocked. She goes, "Anyone could just come in there and take records!" And Nina goes, "If I owned a record shop, I'd be more worried about people breaking in and leaving more records behind." [G laughs] Objectively hilarious sentence. Not a very nice thing to say.
G: She's not very niceys.
C: [laughs] Yeah. But, you know, Maggie immediately pays her back for being not very niceys as well. Nina offers her wine, and Maggie's like, "No, I don't really drink." And then Nina's like, "Okay, well, I'm gonna have a drink."
G: [laughing] I forgot that this scene happens!
C: And then Maggie crosses her arms and goes, "No judgment!" What? You're like, a fully-grown adult. Like, you have to have gotten over that at some point, Maggie. What was your upbringing? How is this something that you're doing? How incredibly annoying.
G: This is how I talk to people who drink coffee. [both laughing]
C: What's wrong with coffee?
G: [laughing] I'm just kidding. But like, literally though. [laughing] "Wow, you need a coffee? No judgment." [both laughing]
C: God bless. Yeah. It's just, I think at this point, I was like, "Yeah, I don't want them together in any way, shape or form." Like, they don't even respect each other!
G: I think- am I misremembering? I think you told me that they like, don't get together.
C: They don't. I don't care about spoilers. But it is implied that they are still into each other, which I don't believe.
G: Is it like a "We need like, time" situation?
C: Yeah. [sighs] Am I being overly critical of their relationship? Like, I feel like if I like, looked at them and tried to like, give as much care as I give to Aziraphale and Crowley to them, I probably could get some good content, especially 'cause like-
G: No.
C: - I know Nina Sosanya is a good actress. Like, should I be trying harder to open my heart to love?
G: I have already said earlier that, like- No, [laughing] I think I said this about the first scene between Aziraphale and Crowley this season. Like, this kind of interaction is like, so offputting when it happens in real life, don't you feel? Like, if somebody was acting like Maggie around me, I will be deeply irritated. And I also wouldn't want to talk to someone who is acting like Nina. [laughs] You know what I mean? So it's like, I cannot conceptualize- and I know not everything is about me and who I want to talk to, but like [laughing] I cannot conceptualize a situation where, you know, it happens, so RIP.
C: Yeah, I mean, like, being physically attracted to each other can only take you so far, and also, I'm not getting that much chemistry from them.
G: They're not.
C: I think that we're supposed to like, understand that they are physically attracted to each other, but like, I'm not seeing it. It's not happening.
G: Yeah, they don't have that much chemistry. I don't think anybody in this show has had chemistry. [laughing] Why am I suddenly turning into an Aziraphale/Crowley hater?
C: You see, I also ended Season 2 being like, "I feel like they don't like each other that-" [laughs] Like, the first time I watched through Season 2, I did end it with like, "So like, do they like each other?" [both laughing] Like- I-
G: Well, did they?
C: Probably. [both laugh] Yeah. I just- yeah. Their interactions this season, anyone's interactions this season, it's not really working for me. And I get that this is the start of Nina and Maggie's relationship, and that like, it can definitely- like, things can develop from here. Except they don't in this show. So like, yeah. They don't. So there.
G: I mean, I know that a part of this season is about getting them together, and it just feels off putting when you see them, like, before they're getting together, and they don't seem to like each other.
C: Yeah. I mean the next part, it's like, we're supposed to think there's chemistry. But like. is there? Nina goes like, "Okay, good, 'cause I have enough judgment in my life already. When my phone comes back on, there's gonna be like, a hundred texts from Lindsay." And, like, Maggie, starts like- she smiles at her- like, what? Kind of like, what? Like, wistfully? And walks closer whilst saying, "Must be nice to have someone at home who cares where you are." Is this an attempted seduction? Because that's not the move here, girl.
G: No, no, I don't think it's an attempt at seduction. It's just, it's like, an attempt of like, connection, I suppose.
C: Yeah. Yeah. I guess. And then Nina's like, "Okay, well, Lindsay, like, wants me to text if I'm more than ten minutes late." And then Maggie, just like, completely ignoring this, like, just walks closer, and goes, "It's funny. I was sort of hoping we'd have a chance to talk. And now, here we are, locked in." Yeah, because you came in after closing, and then like, didn't head out after she gave you like, a clear like, "I have a partner. Back off."! And like, they're like, making like, heavy eye contact, or whatever, and like, I feel like the lighting is like- there's a bit of like, a softness to the camera that's supposed to make us be like, "Wow! They're having a moment." But like, they're not, you guys! They aren't. And Nina goes, "Here we both are." What? Like, what? What's happening here? Like, do they think they're gonna fuck in the backroom? Well, they're not, and they don't. Like, when we cut back to them after this, they're just like- [laughs] they went nowhere after this. The last time I was on call with my friend Fi and complaining about Season 2 again, [G laughs] she was like, "These lesbians must be really awful if you don't even support them a little bit." And I was like, "Well. They are." And they're not even awful. They're just incredibly mid. There's just nothing there. There's nothing. It's nothing. It's a nothing season, and it's a nothing relationship.
And then we see Crowley doing 110 miles per hour down London to get to Soho. And I should care about this. Everyone was like, "I should care about this." But I just don't. The song playing is "Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy" by Queen. And the entire hiatus, this was like, the song that everybody was like, making AMVs to, titling their fics after, begging and hoping for it to be in Season 2, and like, it is, but it's not utilized well. It's not really anything. It's just happening. It's, "Hey, boy, where'd you get it from? Hey, boy, where did you go? I learned my passion in the good old-fashioned school of lover boys." Okay, like, what does that mean in the context of this scene? Nothing.
G: Can you believe "Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy" plays in the Bentley in Good Omens, and I feel absolutely nothing.
C: Like, while Crowley is driving over to like, rescue Aziraphale or whatever.
G: Yeah! It's just, how do you fuck this up?
C: Exactly. Oh well.
G: You know where they should have fucking put this song?
C: Where?
G: Is the aforementioned scene prior to the events of this episode, [laughing] where they're just hanging out! [C laughs] There should have-
C: Oh my god, there should have been a montage! [G laughing] And then, like, they literally are dining at the Ritz, and there's a ding on Crowley's watch on the d- Yeah!
G: [laughing] We are so horrible. We just complained to hell and back that this is [both laughing, overlapping] a fanfiction-ass episode. But you know what? If they're going to make a fanfiction-ass episode, they should have committed to the fucking bit!
C: Exactly! Yeah. As- I was gonna quote something Danica says, but I don't actually remember. I think the gist of it is just like, "If this is fan service, then why am I not being serviced?" [G laughing] Yeah. Do a better job. [laughing] Do a Supernatural Season 12 market research before you write, but I should be the only market you research. You used "Bohemian Rhapsody" a bunch in Season 1, so let's have the fucking reprise to "Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy" scene.
G: Also, they do like, a lot of Queen songs that are playing in the background in like, a saxophone or whatever. You know what I mean. Like, instrumental this episode.
C: I didn't notice any of that. What were they?
G: There's like, a lot of like, I think "Bohemian Rhapsody" was playing in the cafe at some point.
C: Oh, wow, really?
Crowley like, talks out loud as they drive, like, to the bus like, "There's only room for one person in this lane, and it's not you!" and also talks to the traffic light. And you know what? My main takeaway from this is that Crowley has to be a Twitch streamer. It's so important.
We cut back to Maggie and Nina, and, you know, after that charged - or we were supposed to think it was charged - moment, they just went right back to chatting normally.
G: Charged with fucking negativity. [C laughs]
C: Yeah, yeah. They are ions for real. Nina, again, is like, "You know, records fucking suck, bro. Why do you have your store?" How many times has it been? 3?
G: I think it's four times. The first time- yeah, it's four. This is the fourth time! [C laughs] There's the first one when they were meeting. There's the one when the record was given. There's the one about stealing.
C: Yeah. And now there's this!
G: And then there's this one.
C: Yeah, though, I mean, when the record was given, she just said, "I don't have anything to play this on." Like, it was more of a stunned thing than like, a judgey thing that one time. So that's only half.
G: No, but I want it to be four so it's the equal amount of number that Aziraphale and Crowley have gotten divorced. [both laughing]
C: Maggie and Nina have also gotten divorced four times.
G: Yeah. Four is the magic number.
C: Yeah. And it's the death number.
Yeah, Maggie says that the store was originally owned by her great-grandmother and was in a corner of Aziraphale's grandfather's shop, so that's why Aziraphale lets her stay on without rent. Sometimes. She didn't say sometimes, but like, I'm assuming that she still has to pay rent some months. Ugh. Aziraphale sucks. He doesn't. He kinda does. [G laughs] For this. So yeah, Crowley parks on the line "Driving back and style to my saloon," which, okay, that one's a little fun. Or "Driving back in style in my saloon," right? 'Cause a saloon was a type of car at the time, and the Bentley is that type of car, I think I read somewhere. That's fun. Maggie and Nina are holding up the signs, and he's like, "Oh, was that me? My bad." And with a snap of her finger, unlocks everything and recharges the phones. And [laughs] we see a bunch of texts show up on Nina's phone. And it's like, what kind of fucked up messaging app is Lindsay using? [both laughing] Is there an app to turn all of your texts into the aesthetic of Jackbox Party Pack 3: Trivia Murder Party? Like, [laughing] what? What is this?
G: It looks, like, demonic in nature.
C: For real. When Season 3 opens with Lindsay showing up as a demon and fucking up everyone's life, well, that'll really show me. But yeah. It's like, the texts appear as like, they're like, these, like, paper rectangles, but it's like, grimy paper, right? Like, butcher paper. Like, there's stains on them. And then all the words are written in like, messy red crayon with like, scribbly underlines and all that shit. What messaging app is this? What is this? And, I mean, I paused to look at some of them, and it's all like, you know, it's all like, things that make you worried about Nina. Just like, shit like, "I am a real person. I matter. Why don't you care?", her name a lot in caps with exclamation points, "You have a great deal of explaining to do," "I've had enough of this," "At least one of us takes this relationship seriously." And then I think the funniest one is "Please remember what we agreed about mutual respect." This is how toxic lesbians are. Sorry about your relationship, Nina. I don't know. Maybe I should be a little nicer to Nina's unfriendly behavior or whatever because it's like, she's dealing with a lot of shit at home. Like, yeah. If she needs to take that frustration out by saying four times that your record store is like, stupid, [G laughs] I mean, I don't know. Maybe Lindsay likes records, you know?
-
G: Well, inside the bookshop, Crowley enters, and obviously, Aziraphale has heard this, but Aziraphale isn't looking.
C: Yeah. Did you notice specifically, before Crowley entered, Aziraphale was like, just sitting there doing nothing, sort of looking at the door, and as soon as Crowley goes in there, Aziraphale, like, puts his glasses on and pretends to be like, reading something?
G: That's so real of him. Fucking real.
C: Also, he's not wearing the jacket. Is this the first time we've seen him in just the waistcoat?
G: Yeah. I think so! So cute.
C: The back of it is green, it's dark green, which I think is so fun. I love when, like, men's section formal wear has like-
G: A little thing, yeah.
C: - hints of color. And the main thing I am thinking about regarding this is the dance scene at the end of Much Ado About Nothing (2011) when Benedick shrugs his jacket off, and you can see that the back of his vest is like, this sort of red plum color. I want that suit so much. David Tennant, like, if you have it like, can I have it? And also like, can we like, chat about other things? Or, you know. Anyway. [laughs] It's a good suit.
G: While you were talking, I rewatched the scene to see Aziraphale like, literally looking at the fucking door, [C laughs] and he being like, "Oops! He's here!" [laughing] It's so funny! God, that's hilarious. That's so funny.
C: Yeah, I mean, I hope that sorta does mean that he suffered a bit, though, right? Like, maybe he was like, "Oh, what if she doesn't come back?" Like, Aziraphale wasn't able to just go back to regular functioning. Though I'm sure part of the door watching was like, watching out for Heaven, so it's probably a mix.
G: Crowley enters, rings the bell on the desk that, last season, Shadwell rang. He goes, "I'm back."
C: Yeah. As you may be able to guess, that was the first scene in the Season 2 trailer. [G sighs] You don't care about the trailer. Sorry, continue.
G: No, it's not that I don't- Like, I don't care about the trailer, but every time you tell me something about the trailer, I'm like, "Ugh." That's an "ugh" about like, the trailer, not about knowing about the trailer, you know? Aziraphale just keeps on doing whatever the fuck he's doing.
C: [laughing] Pretending that he's working.
G: I'm assuming he is cataloging a book or other. With an index card and everything.
C: Yeah! How sweet.
G: Ignoring- I mean, not ignoring. He goes like, "Yeah, I can see that." But like, not looking, not interacting. And Crowley asks, like, "Oh, do you want like, a big 'I think I said the wrong thing' sort of apology? Or can we take that as said?" [laughs]
C: Oh, god, they're so fucked in the head. Like, okay, like, what was the wrong thing, though? Like, what did you say wrong? What are you apologizing for? Do you have an answer for that? No, there isn't anything.
G: No, exactly! The thing is, like, when you- I've had a friend once tell me that you should never get back together with someone who you broke up with for a reason. Like, if there's like, an actual thing that they did or didn't do, and that's the reason that you broke up with them, you shouldn't get back together with them. Because if you do, it basically means like, "I will be the one adjusting." Like, "Whatever you did is fine. I'm the one who's going to adjust in this situation." And it does remind me of how every single time they fight, Crowley is the one who's crawling back. And like, I don't know.
C: Well, okay, wait. Let's go through their divorces in order, right? Okay, St. James's Park. Crowley shows up to save Aziraphale. I wouldn't call that crawling back, right? Like that one's not. Would you call that one crawling back? What would you characterize the first one, the Crowley coming back during 1941?
G: I wouldn't call it crawling back, but it's very much a "We're putting it past us," and the thing is, if Aziraphale did the quote "crawling back," to ask for Crowley's forgiveness, it meant giving him the holy water, right?
C: Which he did.
G: He did later. But like, here, in the 1941 scene, the implication is that, "Okay. You won't get me the holy water. Fine. It's all right." So that one. Second divorce, bandstand, right?
C: Yeah. [laughs] Crowley crawls back so hard after that one, yes.
G: So hard and so raw. Even says, "Whatever it is I said, I apologize."
C: "I didn't mean it" also.
G: And then the third one is leaves after the apology and then comes back to Aziraphale's bookshop.
C: That's not a crawling back, though.
G: In that one, he goes, "I'm going to Alpha Centauri. Come with me." And Aziraphale says no. And like, Crowley doesn't go. And I do think that is like, a concession to Aziraphale’s side, right?
C: But Crowley was never gonna go.
G: Yeah, exactly.
C: But it's not a crawling back if it was already in place. And wouldn't-
G: Okay, forget the crawling back. The crawling back is not the point. The point is adjusting.
C: But okay, Aziraphale tells Crowley that he knows where the boy is after that breakup. Isn't that a concession?
G: After! But it's Crowley who, like, runs back to the bookshop.
C: Because Aziraphale said that he knew where the boy was.
G: Oh, I completely forgot about that!
C: Yeah, I mean, this is Aziraphale going back again- like, during the bandstand, he's like, "Even if I knew, I wouldn't tell you because we're enemies." Like, the act of telling Crowley is like-
G: [laughs] I completely misunderstood that scene.
C: - "We're back on each other's side. Come over." Isn't it?
G: Yeah, I suppose so, [both laugh] now that I think about it.
C: Like, it does get glossed over a bit, because a lot of it's just like, "Oh, holy water! Oh, Hastur! Oh, like, telephone line."
G: I for real- yeah. Yeah.
C: But like, that is a thing. You had a whole thing about Aziraphale and faith and deciding to put it in Crowley and then call her. Like, Aziraphale is taking back the explicit, like, "We're not friends, and I wouldn't tell you because we're not friends and not on the same side."
G: But who concedes? Who concedes? Who concedes in that situation? Because the ask is "run away with me," and the answer is still no.
C: Yes. But I mean, before the "run away with me" ask, the ask was, "work with me to help save the world," and Aziraphale's like, "It's the great plan." Isn't the ask more of like, "Work with me and help me save the world. And then, if that doesn't happen, run away with me."
G: Okay, yeah, you're right.
C: Yeah! [laughs] Sorry. That was bitchier than I wanted it to sound. [both laugh]
G: [laughing] No it's not. It's fine.
C: Yeah, I don't know. I just have- I have an investment in Aziraphale- Like, Aziraphale, it's harder for Aziraphale, and I think that Crowley is getting more- Crowley is a more sympathetic character, I think, because the ways in which he is hurt are like-
G: In the TV show, yeah.
C: - very obvious and relatable to us, but like, Aziraphale's going through pretty much the exact same shit at all times, and that sometimes, Aziraphale does concede. I'd say that the show does do its work to be like, "And Crowley so sopping wet and pathetic and Aziraphale's so so mean to him," though. Like, I get the impression that people have 'cause Neil Gaiman was like, "I'm gonna make my self-insert the blorboiest blorbo you've ever seen."
G: I mean, to be clear. To be perfectly, perfectly clear, I completely agree with you. Like, Aziraphale is going through shit, etc etc. And like, it's just we don't get as much from his side. So like, I think it's harder to-
C: To sympathize?
G: Not sympathize. I completely understand him. [C laughs] Whatever souls are made of [both laughing], his and I are exactly the same. No, but like, it's harder to like, talk about in this way. Because, like, you know, with Crowley, we're able to be like, "Oh, but what does Crowley think?" With Aziraphale, it's a bit more difficult because we're given less. Remember, like- what is it? A couple episodes ago, I went on this tangent where I talked about Aziraphale and Crowley, and like, willingness to experience love and blah blah blah.
C: Oh, the Giovanni's Room conversation.
G: Yeah. The Giovanni's Room one. And like, immediately, I think, like, a day after we recorded that, I was like, "I think I was so mean to Aziraphale! I didn't even explain properly that, like, Aziraphale is like, also suffering!" And the thing is, he is, though. He is, though, you guys.
C: Yeah. It's harder to be an Aziraphale understander in this economy.
G: So the proper apology is a dance. The "I was wrong" dance. And Aziraphale claims that he did it in-
C: 1650, 1793, and 1941. Now we didn't see them in 1650. We did see them in 1793 and 1941. What did Aziraphale have to apologize for with those?
G: Like, getting into trouble?
C: That's weird! [laughs] Isn't that so weird to do?
G: No, because the apology is not an apology.
C: It's also not an apology, yes, it's not- But, okay, like, it's a really strange dynamic here. 'Cause like, it's like, Crowley says, "I don't do the dance" before this happened. Like, this whole negotiation thing. Like, who came up with this? Supposedly Crowley, if he doesn't do it but Aziraphale does.
G: Yeah. I don't think Aziraphale volunteered, like- [laughs]
C: What is this? [both laughing] Like, it's also the way that Aziraphale looks at Crowley like a giant pervert the whole time. [G laughs] Like, at the end of it, especially, like, what fucked up thing is this dance? Like, I just cannot imagine a situation where Crowley's like, "Oh, you got in trouble, and I had to rescue you? Do a dance about it. Like, I'm gonna sit here and cross my arms and you have to do a dance about it." Like, huh? [Glaughing] Who agreed to that? Presumably Aziraphale. Why? Why did Crowley come up with it? I just don't get it. I don't get how this dance could have ever come into being.
G: No also, but like, the fact that they're supposed to be apologizing.
C: Yeah, it's not.
G: But it's not. Not a single "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" is uttered in that fucking song.
C: Yeah, no. [laughing]
G: It goes, "I was wrong."
C: It starts, "You were right, you were right, I was wrong, you were right." [G laughs] What? They're so fucked in the head.
G: They're so weird!
C: It's so weird! There can never be a flashback scene of the origin of this dance because there is no believable way that it ever could have happened. Like, the only reason I'm letting it play out on my screen right now is that they claim they've had it for hundreds of years, but like, no, they didn't, 'cause it never would have happened. Also, yeah, what happened in 1793 and 1941. Like, what did Aziraphale have to apologize- like, what is the purpose of it? Like, humiliation? Like, that doesn't seem right. But, like, what else could it be? This does feel like some kind of weird BDSM thing.
G: It may as well be.
C: What is this? Like, okay, if I wanna like, really immerse myself in the canon and be like, "Okay, this is real. And this is like, Good Omens, and like, this is how Neil Gaiman writes it." I guess, like, the charitable reading of this is that they just came up with this as like a "Aziraphale can't say thank you, but he can say sorry." But also, he didn't do anything wrong, so he's not gonna say sorry; he's just gonna say this thing. And the dance is just a way to make it like, light-hearted so that they can be like, "What a silly, stupid thing we just did," and then move on. And it probably helps lighten the mood if it's like, a genuine apology, too, 'cause it's like, "Well, we did the ritual, so now we don't have to talk about it again, and if we think about it, we'll just think about how you did a fun curtsy, so it'll be like, 'Why are we even thinking about it?'" Like, sure. Fine. I can see the purpose that it like, plays. But also like, they would not fucking do this.
G: I don't think they wouldn't do it. It's just incredibly odd. [laughs]
C: Aziraphale is such a fucking pervert about it. [G laughs] After he, like, wheedles Crowley into doing it, right? He takes off his glasses and stands up with his hands clasped in front of himself, watching, with his head tilted slightly up, right? And when it ends, Aziraphale just looks at Crowley, like, steely-eyed, like, not moving, and then just says, "Very nice." But like, I can't do the voice. But it is like- this is some kind of- this is some weird BDSM thing, you guys! That is the voice being used. What is he doing? What's happening here?
G: And so now they're back to plot. [laughs] After a really weird segue, we're back to the plot. And they decide that what they need to do is perform a little miracle to protect Gabriel. It' just they each do half a miracle so that, you know, it won't be powerful at all.
C: Yeah, Aziraphale will hide him from Hell, and Crowley will hide him from Heaven. Yeah. Aziraphale said, "I think Heaven would notice if I was to perform even a very minor miracle." And we don't actually see him- Do we see him do a miracle this episode? I feel like we don't.
G: No, absolutely not. Crowley, too.
C: Crowley? No, Crowley does the driving shit. Snaps the traffic lights.
G: Oh, yeah yeah yeah.
C: But like, yeah, Aziraphale's the one who's like, "Heaven would notice if I performed even a minor miracle." So it's- has Aziraphale spent these last four years just living like, fully like, power- not even using his powers?
G: People? Like, human? Yeah. Probably.
C: Yeah. Man.
G: Where's he getting the money?
C: Yeah. Like, does he have to sell his books now? He could just ask Crowley to just miracle money for him, I guess. [G laughing]
G: No, that's funny as hell. And probably true!
C: Sugar daddy AU where they haven't even tried penetration and also there's none of that dynamic in any way whatsoever. And he's doing- he seems fine with that, I guess. He seems to be enjoying himself. Crowley is the one who's depressed to hell and back. Huh. I feel like I didn't really notice this my earlier watches, and I have always- one of the reasons I've disliked the "they turn human" AUs is that, like, I feel like I was like, "Aziraphale is not gonna be able to cope with like, not be able to get a reservation at the Ritz every single time he goes." But like, maybe he would be able to cope. But Crowley can't.
G: So they sit Gabriel down in a chair, and it's like, they're both holding one hand each, and it is very much a case of like, "Oh, it's supposed to be an Adam parallel," I think. So, you know, they performed a miracle, and they both comment on, "Oh, like, it's so little! Nobody's gonna notice a thing!" And then there's a bit where Gabriel's like, "Wow, I have two friends now." Crowley is like, "You are not our friend," and you know.
C: He goes, "I am not your friend." He doesn't speak for Aziraphale there.
G: Yeah. And then, you know, they're like, "Wow! This miracle we did was so good and so unnoticeable." Cut to Heaven. Alarm blaring. And it's like, you know, the typical, like, red light going in and out. And then apparently, this happens when something is afoot. And then they go to the Earth globe in the middle of Heaven, zoom in, zoom in, zoom in. There is just this glaring- is it purple? Purple beam fucking beaming out of Soho, beaming out of Aziraphale's bookshop.
C: Yep. And then it's the outro theme music, and it starts as a choral rendition of the regular theme, and then it turns into "Everyday" by Buddy Holly.
-
C: Alright. Well, we've talked words.
G: Sure did.
C: Grey. [laughs] What'd you think about this episode?
G: It's- you know, it's less than fine. I love to say "It's fine" about things. [C laughs] But I think this is a little bit less than that.
C: Yeah.
G: You?
C: It's fine. I'm annoyed at the Maggie/Nina things, and I feel like a lot of my frustration is the stuff that I noticed that I don't like and then I also know that it doesn't get changed within the season. So yeah. I think if I was watching this without knowing the rest, I'd be like, "Mm. Kind of an unsteady opening, but some fun moments. Looking forward to seeing what they're gonna do next!" But now I'm not looking forward to seeing what they're gonna do next.
G: Yeah. I feel like- you know how last season, I kept on saying, "It's a good thing that I'm watching this week-by-week." I think it's a bad thing that I'm watching this season week-by-week. Like, let's just get it over with. Like, I am curious as to what happens, 'cause it is still Aziraphale and Crowley, you know, but let's get it over with. [laughs] Okay, Best Line/Worst Line.
C: I haven't thought of one yet, wait.
G: You know what's fascinating is like, last episode- last season, we didn't do a Best Line/Worst Line because it was a bit difficult to do, because most of the lines are okay, and like, lots of good lines in a single episode. Very packed, you know. This one, [laughs] we can do a Best Line/Worst Line because [laughs] the best lines are few and far in between, [C laughs] and the worst lines are sure there. For me, my best line is what I said earlier. The- after Aziraphale says, "You're at liberty to go," Crowley's reply of, "To go? This is how you want to do it?" Really fucking got to me.
C: Yeah. I mean, I'm very fond of "Most of it won't even be visible from 'Earth'!" which is not particularly deep best line, but it also is to me because it's like, you don't even know yet. You don't even know yet.
G: For me, my worst line is the frozen peas joke. So corny.
C: Yeah, I mean, it was an attempt to recreate the magic of "Ducks! That’s what water slides off of." But you will never be "Ducks! That's what water slides off."
G: But that's different. Because the wonderful thing about "Ducks!" is that Crowley genuinely forgot, and then, like, you know, remembers.
C: Yeah, this one is not telling her.
G: And this one "I'm evading the conversation." So it's a different feel.
C: Yeah. I think my worst line- this is probably not like, the worst line, but the first moment of like, incredible annoyance I felt is when Maggie and Nina are discussing what the Gabriel situation is, and Maggie goes, "Maybe it's a new delivery service. A stripperdeliverogram." And then Nina goes, "You just made that up." and Maggie goes, "Yeah," and they laugh. Like, huh? Like, yeah, she just made it up. Like, what is- It's just such a pointed way of like, forcing them to be like, "Oh, they think the other person is funny," but like it's like, not funnay, and also like, why would you respond with "You just made that up." Like, everyone needs to talk exactly like me, and that means that the only response to that is either saying "So true" or repeating her sentence to get cut out in Audacity later when it's uploaded to Anchor. [both laughing] I don't think you understand how dialogue works, Neil Gaiman.
G: What's our next portion?
C: Gayest/transest.
G: I don't even remember a single moment in this episode. [C laughs] We are so back. We are so back, like, BABPod-
C: To BABPod levels of caring?
G: Yeah. [both laughing] We are so back.
C: Is this a back or a crover? [G laughing] I really have hope for next episode. I really do. But we'll see. I don't wanna hype you up too much because I don't think it's that good. I just have hope that there will be parts of it that you like. Okay. Gayest- gayest moment. I liked when Crowley talked about the three reasons that Aziraphale has for calling her, and how she can tell the different tones of voice. I think that's a nice moment. And I think that taking the sunglasses off and putting them on the horse was also gay.
G: This is not a gay moment. I just- I think it's nice that Cro- okay, this is completely unrelated to what we're talking about. I don't want this to be portrayed like, I'm saying it's a gay moment. I'm just scrolling through our podcast guide [laughs], and I noticed it and I want to point it out. I think it's nice that Crowley, like, when he was mad, was like, "I'm going to count to 10," and like, even though they failed, like, I think it's nice.
C: Yeah, it is nice. I mean, Aziraphale did invent being the first ever gay person when he showed up and saw Crowley.
G: [laughs] For real.
C: Okay. Transest moment. I have two. First one, Aziraphale saying that he likes the pinky-blue bit in the corner. So true. Trans pride win.
G: Trans rights, yeah.
C: Second one, I think when- [laughing] I think Beelzebub switching an actor is trans, even though the switching didn't happen transgenderly. Like, I liked when Crowley was like, "Oh, is that a new face?" and like, Beelzebub's like, "Oh, this old thing? I've had it for ages." Like, that's fun. That's fun. I'm happy for zem.
G: Yeah. Yeah! [laughs] I'm not even gonna say anything. [C laughs]
C: Great. Love it. Alright. Grey, predictions for next episode? Why do you think I think you'll like it?
G: [sighs] I know that there are minisodes. Maybe there's a good minisode next episode?
C: Maybe there is.
G: I don't know. Every time you talk about the main plot of Season 2, you're always like, [frat bro voice] "It sucks."
C: [laughing] It does!
G: But the thing is, whenever you talk about the minisodes- well, the one time you talked about the minisodes, you also said they sucked. [both laugh] So I'm not sure. I don't know. They're probably gonna be hunted down. Well, don't answer this, but I am curious when the Gabriel/Beelzebub reveal happens and how and, you know, like, what does it mean? How does it affect- Also, I'm curious why there needs to be a setting-Nina-and-Maggie-up situation. I think maybe they're gonna set that up next episode. Because the next episode is called- what's it called? "The Case"?
C: "The Clue." It's called "The Clue."
G: "The Clue." I don't know. Probably gonna get a fucking clue. [laughing] That's my prediction.
C: Perhaps so. Alright.
G: I've been saying that we're so back, and we are. [C laughs]
C: Oh, God, we literally- we like, did this partly because we were like, we were divorced from BABPod, and this was like, to rekindle our love for Supernatural, and yeah, no, I mean, I did end Season 2 saying out loud to Danica multiple times on the phone, "Supernatural's better than this." So you know what? Maybe we'll be so back when we return to BABPod.
G: I mean, after I finished episode 1, the first thing I told you, [C laughs] "Let's go back to Supernatural." [both laughing]
C: I'm so sorry for like, fans of Good Omens who liked Season 2 who are like, "Oh my god! Like, they're so passionate about Season 1. Like, that's so fun. Like, I look forward to seeing them bring that to Season 2-" Sorry. Sorry.
G: Sowwy.
C: We complained a lot in Episodes 5 and 6, though, so like, there was buildup, there was foreshadowing, things Neil Gaiman has never learned to do in his life in Season 2. [G laughs] So, you know. Sorry, guys. I am sorry. Please keep talking to us. I won't be mean if you're like, enthusiastic about this season in our inbox. I'm not gonna like, shoot you down, or whatever. But yeah.
G: No, like, it is fun to hear what other people liked about- 'cause, you know, we all take different things from it.
C: Well, that is it for this week’s episode of Rubbish and Probably a Podcast. Next time, we will be talking about Season 2, Episode 2: “Chapter 2: The Clue featuring the minisode A Companion to Owls.” Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.
G: Huh. Companion to owls. Why does it not say that title in the-
C: The whole episode is still called "The Clue," but they have separate names for the minisodes.
G: Okay. Episode 2 is "Companion to Owls," Episode 3 is "The Resurrectionists." Which is, isn't that the name of the fucking-
C: Pub?
G: Yeah, from the matchbox. "Nazi Zombie Flesheaters" in Episode 4.
C: Yeah.
G: Oh, Episode 5 is called "The Ball." I'm assuming this is the one where that they're dancing-
C: Ugh.
G: - or playing basketball. [C laughing] One or the other.
C: Yeah, probably that one.
G: Oh, yeah, we interact through our social medias at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com, and you can email us at bustyasianbeautiespod@gmail.com. Again, thank you so much for all of your interactions. It is really wonderful, even if we are haters now.
C: And if no one asked Grey for his lesbian Aziraphale and Crowley fic recs yet, then you should probably ask Grey for his lesbian Aziraphale and Crowley fic recs.
G: Yeah. Yeah, or scroll through our Tumblr and find that I already said it because Crystal has already asked it. Hell, yeah!
C: Yeah. Hell, yeah. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod. See you guys next time! Bye!
G: Buh-bye!
[Garageband "Everyday" plays]
-
[beep]
G: And I mean, that's fun in and on of it- [enunciating] in and of itse- What the fuck is that phrase? [C laughs] In and of its- What?
C: In and of itself?
G: In and off?
C: Yeah. In and of-
G: It's in an- [laughs] Oh, okay.
C: - of itself. [G laughing]
G: What a stupid fucking sentence! Well, anyway- yeah. That's my point. I don't- I don't even know what I was saying prior.
C: Well, so true, whatever you said. [G laughs]
[beep]
G: Wait, I have to read the summary! Wait, that's- I don't think that's what happens. Well, anyway. [both laughing] I don't know if this is- Okay, our synopsis for this episode is, "Cr-OW-" Our synopsis for this episode is [C laughing] "Crowley becomes-" [laughing] Shut the fuck up! [both laughing]
C: Wow! After six episodes! But yeah, continue. [G laughing]
G: At least I repeated myself! Other times, I didn't even notice I was doing it. Well.
C: True true true. You are Aziraphale in Rome and not Aziraphale in Wessex.
G: Exactly. So, the synopsis for this episode is "Crowley becomes a heavenly bee and learns-" [laughing]
C: Wait. No, no! That is the sixth one. What? No! Where are you? Go away. Don't be on that page. What?
G: I'm on "The Arrival!" I'm in "The Arrival"! [C laughing]
C: [laughing] We’re so bad at podcasting! Okay. [G laughing] Did you find the right one?
G: [laughing] This is what the- This is what the- This isn't the right synopsis! [laughing] God!
C: How many spoilers did you just r-? Oh, wait, no. Oh, yeah. Oh my god, yeah, no, it's wrong on here. Okay. I'm just gonna read the Amazon Prime one. [G laughing] Okay, yeah. That's the plan.
[beep]
G: So horrible. I was the teacher's pet in that when there was like, a misbehaving student in class, and they're like being- they have like, detention, so they have to stay behind for lunch, they'll make me stay with the student! [laughing]
C: Noo! [laughing] What a horrible system!
G: So like, [laughing] I'll watch the kid! Isn't that so horrible?
C: So the teacher can just run off to lunch.
G: [laughing] I was also in fucking detention! Yeah, basically. And they tell it to me like, "Well, because, you know, this is a troublesome student. Like, we need to like, keep an eye on them," or whatever. So it's my job to do that. I didn't go down lunch for a fucking month one time! So horrible. [laughing]
[beep]
G: Who made this podcast summary? We're meeting Maggie, dude.
C: What? Oh, did I say Nina?
G: Yeah.
C: Oh. Sorry. Yeah.
G: Slay. [laughing] I can’t believe I said, “Who made this podcast summary?” [C laughing]-
C: Who told that jurnalist?
G: - knowing full well I didn't and you're the only person that's do- [C laughing]
C: So I think I definitely got their names mixed up in my notes a lot, too.
G: You know what? That's fair. I mix up Aziraphale and Crowley a lot.
C: Yeah, yeah. That’s valid.
G: I always delete it happens in the podcast, but sometimes I can’t, so there are just moments in the podcast where I say Crowley and I'm just fully talking about Aziraphale.
[beep]
G: Whenever people ask me about my name, like, "Where's it come from?" I say it's short for something. And then- [laughing] Never mind. I don't wanna say this story.
C: Yeah. It's short for Gregory House. [G laughing]
G: I do say that. I do solemnly say that. And then, like, they go through like, the five stages of grief or something, and I feel like in their head, they're like, "Am I allowed to make fun of this person? Or is that transphobic?" [C laughs] And, you know. It's fun.
C: Yeah. Yeah.
G: Grey's short for Gregory fucking House. [both laughing]
[beep]
G: This episode, like, made me so miserable, because I have a very optimistic view of romance. A friend of mine once told me, “God, Grey, you’re such a hopeless romantic!” And I went, “I disagree with that phrase. I don't think I'm hopeless. I think I'm very hopeful.” And he goes, “Yeah, and that's what makes you so hopeless. It's because you want it to work so bad, and you're so hopeful.” And like, when this- after I watched this episode, and like, this scene specifically, I'm so vividly reminded by that conversation and also the fact that, like, by the end of Season 1, I was just so convinced that it's going to work out. Like, they're going to be okay, you guys. And like, I knew for a fact that they're going to divorce by the end of Season 2, but I still like- After our recording, right? You asked me, "What do you think is the relationship going to be?" And I was like, "I don't know. Probably gonna need some more. I think it will be kind of like, a 'Before the events of the season, which will evidently turn their relationship sour towards the end,' it's like, a good thing that they have going." Obviously, that's not the case. I don't know. It's like, a little bit a slap in the face to see this and be like, “Oh, yeah, that is how it works. It's how it have worked for me before, and it's how it has worked for them. And no matter how optimistic I am about these things, the reality of the situation is, most people do experience romance in this way, or at least have experienced it in this way at some point.” And [laughs] I legitimately was having like, an existential crisis after this episode. Because of this. Like, I mean, not to be whatever whatever, but like, my optimism for romance is so out of place, given my history with it. But like, I always just like, "You know, that's in the past. But moving forward, I'll be better. I'll meet better people," blah blah blah. And like, I don't know. Seeing this is like, "Oh, maybe it really is just like that." Like, what if it's just horrible all the time? [laughing]
C: Oh, boy.
G: So that's fun.
C: I mean, I don't have a counterargument for that, so, I guess it is.
[beep]
G: What pronouns are we sticking with for Beelzebub?
C: I mean, I don't- I stick to the ze ones out of like, hatred for Neil Gaiman, mostly.
G: Sure. Let's hate on Neil Gaiman so bad it's unreal. But also, neopronouns are fun! And I think, you know. It's just, this is like a- not sensitive, but like, it's an annoying topic for me, because every cis person in my life, like, just at some point in their life, decide that this is a topic they want to bring up to me.
C: No, exactly!
G: It's like, shut the fuck up! [both laugh]
C: Like, every cis person in your life learns that you're trans-
G: [laughing] I'm so, so- I know I have friends who listen to this episode-
C: Wait, you do? That's fun.
G: And they were like, "What do you think of neopronouns?" [C laughs] And it's like, "I think it's fine. I think it's great." And then, they would do this thing where it's like-
C: Yeah. Like, "What's the deal?" Like, it's wonderful and everyone should use them? Like, next?
G: The worst part is when they start doing the whole, "My god, it's just- Normal trans people just want to live their lives [C screams], and like, look at you! Like, you use-" 'Cause I use he/him exclusively, and like, there was a time where I used he/they, but like, I didn't like it, so I stick with he/him, right? So they're like, “Look at you! Like, you stick with one pronoun, [C laughing] blah blah blah, and like, you're a good trans person! And like, you look masculine, and you look the-" And I'm like, "I hope we all die. [C laughing] Thanks, Will Wood." And it's so- it's so unbearable.
C: Yeah, yeah. No. I feel like every cis person I've talked to has gotten into the like, "And some people use it?" like, part of the conversation, and it's like, I just- [both] Shut up! Who give a shit?
G: Yeah. It's so annoying.
C: Yeah, so in canon, I think Crowley refers to Beelzebub using they ones, so we can mix it up between the two if we want.
G: Who?
C: Crowley refers to Beelzebub using they/them pronouns one time, so we can mix it up if we like.
G: Alright.
[beep]
G: [singing absently] Dining at the Ritz, we’ll meet at 9, precisely. Just take me back to yours, that will be fine. Ooh. Ooh, lover boy.
[beep]
G: Chemistry is fake, you guys, the only people who ever have chemistry ever is like the person who played Aladdin and Jasmine in the [both laughing] live action Aladdin movie. No, that shit is crazy. You guys need to watch that. Like, they have insane chemistry.
C: [laughing] Really? [G laughs] Okay. I mean, I probably won't watch it. I might wa- if you send me a clip, I'll watch it.
G: Okay. I'll send you clips later. Don't worry about it.
C: Okay. I think that all of the friendships on Elementary have very strong friendship/queerplatonic energy. Everyone, watch Elementary. I'm getting back into it. [G laughs] But yeah. Also, if, like, the host of the podcast LMNOP, which has been on break since last October [G laughs] ever wants to pick up again, this is my audition. Please let me be co-host.
G: Slay.
C: Anyway.
[beep]
G: What's the website that you check?
C: Tunefind?
G: You, specifically? Tunefind. [laughs]
C: "You, specifically."
G: What's the song? Good Omens.
C: Did you say, "What's the song? Good Omens"?
G: [laughing] I literally asked-
[beep]
G: [singing absently] Every day, it’s a gettin’ closer, [both] going faster than- Oh, we have a new theme! I don’t know why I’m bringing that up now.
C: Oh, yeah. I mean, they already heard it. [G laughs]
G: I mean, maybe I'm putting this at the end, in which case they have heard it twice.
C: Hell yeah! Okay.
[beep]
C: And you know what? My main takeaway from this is that Crowley needs to be a Twitch streamer. It's so important.
G: You know what? Why not? What game?
C: Oh. I don't know. The only video game I've played is Disco Elysium, basically. So, um, Hades?
G: Nah.
C: What do you think Crowley would play?
G: Why are you asking me like I know anything about gaming?
C: Why'd you ask me when I don't know anything about gaming? [G laughs]
G: You know, there are people who like, Twitch stream - or like, stream, I guess. I watch them on YouTube Live - that aren't like, you know, games. I watch a lot of streamers who like, knit on stream, and they just knit and talk, and like, they have different camera angles to show like, their face, and then, like, the knitting in detail. I like it. It's fun.
C: Yeah. Would Crowley be a knitting streamer?
G: Do you think Crowley would knit? You know this is very important to me. [laughs]
C: Yeah, it is important to you. Yeah. Crowley is an engineer, Crowley liked making the stars. I think that this is a small-scale way of doing a similar thing. I think Crowley would come up with a lot of patterns.
G: You know what? I don't think Crowley would knit. I think Crowley would crochet. Like, I think Crowley specifically would be like, the person who's like, “Crocheting is better than knitting, [C laughs] and if you think knitting is better than crocheting, you're an elitist.” And you know what? It well may be.
C: Well, Grey, what do you think is better? [G laughing]
G: I like to knit more.
C: Woww.
G: Hell yeah! Apologies, Crowley.
C: I mean, I think that in some ways, crocheting is more versatile. My sister’s made a lot of crocheted stuffed animals, 'cause, you know, you just do the circles for heads and shit.
G: Oh, yeah. Yeah, crocheting is, like, what you can make with knitting like, the structure, everything that you can knit, you can crochet, but not everything you can crochet, you can knit, so.
C: Yeah. Crowley had the right idea.
G: But it's a different, you know, it's a different type of fabric that gets- that's the result of it. I tend to like the fabric of knitting better. Hell yeah! I'm a clothesmaker, that's why. Like, if I was a toymaker, I would definitely be crocheting more.
[beep]
G: [laughing] God, maybe all those fucking Nanny Ashtoreth fics were right after all? [C laughing]
C: Oh, yeah, okay, I guess to explain- [G laughing] Every Nanny Ashtoreth fic on AO3 is just about her spanking Aziraphale. I personally have a problem with that, for like, I mean, the transmisogyny reasons, and also like, mostly just because it's like, Crowley just dressed up as evil Mary Poppins. Like, that was the outfit inspiration. Like, that's cute. That's fun. All we see of Nanny Ashtoreth is like, her being like, singing Warlock a lullaby to go to sleep, and like, generally just being like a-
G: Yeah!
C: It's nice. Like, she's nice-ish. Whatever. Go focus on that instead. But yeah, [laughing] this feels like this weird fucking-
G: There are some fics in the tag that are nice.
C: There are some fics in the tag that are nice, yes. Though, yeah.
G: Also, it's so funny to me that you went to explain this to everyone and God when I said I was fully intending to delete it in the edit, but okay.
C: Oh my god. [laughs] Wait. [both laughing] You can put it at the end, maybe. Or you can just delete it. Who cares? But anyway-