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Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the Eur Nation. We pay our respects to their elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Speaker 1: Hi, it's Sarah Davidson here. I'm a corporate lawyer turned entrepreneur, writer, and most importantly in this instance, podcast host. I'm dropping into your feed today to share with you a brand new Momma mea podcast called Pivot Club, which is all about unpacking professional plot twists. It's a new year, and if you've been thinking about how to make your own pivot happen in twenty twenty six, this is the ideal podcast to give you some inspo and real world advice on how to make it your new reality. We'll be serving you a new episode every Wednesday and Friday in your restart feed, So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode. Enjoy. Have you ever been deep into a life you've spent years building, only to have this nagging feeling that it's just not right anymore, that feeling when you look at the path you're on and say, this isn't where or who I'm meant to be. This is Pivot Club, and I'm your host. Sarah Davidson, a fellow member of the Pivot Club. In a past life, I was an m and a lawyer. I'd done the exams, I'd ticked all the boxes, and then I decided to change course completely and run my own business matcha maiden. That one decision put me on a totally new path as an entrepreneur, content creator, and podcast host. But today isn't about my story. It's about someone who didn't just wonder what life would be like if they changed course. It's about someone who actually did it. Here we get inside those moments of rewriting history and unpacking professional plot twists. So let's dive into their story of courage, of uncertainty, and of what happens when you decide to join the Pivot Club. You will know today's guest as National treasure Jessica Watson. We all watched holding our breath as she became the youngest person to sale solo, NonStop and unassisted around the world. She was sixteen, and when she returned we all asked, what's next. The unspoken expectation was more, more adventure, more record breaking, something bigger and more dramatic. But Jessica's biggest pivot wasn't what any of us expected. On paper, her next steps look almost ordinary. She finished school, went to UNI, did an MBA, and got a corporate job, and for the last seven and a half years she's been building a career as a management consultant. And that's the pivot we're talking about today. What happens when you achieved the biggest stream of your life before you were even legally eligible to vote. How do you build an identity separate from the one thing everyone knows you for? And how do you find genuine fulfillment in the received ordinary in an office, in a routine when the world expects you to be extraordinary. Twenty four to seven years after her voyage, jess faced a challenge far greater than any storm at sea, the sudden, catastrophic loss of her long term partner, Can that she says, was her real pivot. Jess's story is a profound reminder that sometimes the bravest thing you can do isn't to sail around the world, but to find joy in a quiet life right where you are. Jess, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. It is so surreal to be sitting in front of what has been You know, you're a national treasure, your Australia's sweetheart, and I've followed your journey for so long, so it is a true privilege to be sitting with you today. Oh, thank you very much. That's very generous, and in your sailor stripes as well, which is very very special for the occasion, of course, said Sa We standard, well, of course we are here today to talk about the power of the pivot, and I feel like before you even turned eighteen, you had been through more pivots than most of us have or we'll have in a lifetime. But I think it makes sense to maybe go back to the very beginning to your past life and have a little look at how it all began. So I think you've talked about growing up really outdoorsy, which does make sense. Who introduced you to sailing and tell us about your life growing up? It was a family thing, I suppose. I mean we'd always spent our holidays and weekends doors and camping, and then as an eight year old it was actually for my brother's birthday that we were sent down to the local yacht club as a sort of present for him. And it was then my older sister who really took to it, so she became a great sailor, loved it, and you know, me and my brother and little sister were kind of following along a little bit reluctantly. Actually to start with, I found it quite scary and intimidating. No wait, scary, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was not the confident, kind of outgoing kid with all the courage you'd expect. Gosh, that is so fascinating because now I look at you and think, truly, you are just unstoppable. And it's fascinating to me that you began scared of the thing that you embraced. And so it was only at twelve years old when you first decided that you would embrace sailing and become the youngest person to sail around the world. How did you go from scared of being on the water to such a huge, ambitious goal. I mean, there were lots of things happening in the background right in terms of you know, as a family, we'd really taken to sailing. We were spending our weekends at a yacht club, and we actually went on to live on a boat for a number of years, so we were sort of very much surrounded by this world and perhaps it was having more of an influence on me than I necessarily realized for a while there. And then, of all things, it was a bedtime story that Mum read to me about Jesse Martin, who sailed around the world aged eighteen, another young Australian and Victorian, and that book just sort of didle the damage for me to just put this plan into the CIA exactly. You'll be careful what you read your kids. I'm always telling parents, and you know, be careful of telling them you can do anything you set your mind too, because you know that's what they might go and do it. He told me, and look what happened, and he was like, oh, okay, maybe not that, but yeah, to your point, how do you go from that scared, fearful girl to someone who wants to sail around the world and goes on to do that. Well, the funny thing was I probably wasn't a confident person still when I decided I wanted to do it, it was actually kind of consciously going, well, if I want to do that. I need to change who I am. I can't be this fearful tiard kid who falls apart as soon as the weather turns a bit bad and it's a bit scary. So it was actually a very conscious choice to go, all right, I've got to change, you know, start pretending, start kind of faking it, and then actually, well I do have the experience and I can do this, and actually it's scary, but it's you know, manageable. So yeah, it was actually kind of the reverse of what you might imagine. Yeah, I actually think that's really powerful for our listeners that we do really silo ourselves and think I'm a shy kid, or I don't like public speaking, or you know, I'm really introverted, and I don't think we believe you can decide to change. But you're an incredible example of at such a young age, just deciding actually that's what I need to be. I'll be it. Yeah, I mean, oh gosh, I mean, I think, like one thing about me, I love to simplify things. And if you go we'll work backwards. You know, what are the things you've got to do to make this thing possible? And if one of those things is that you know, you've got to be a slightly more courageous person. Then it's not not to say it's easy. Yeah, if you really want to do something, you know, who do you need to be to do that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And obviously I think a lot of people at twelve do come out with these big exciting dreams like become an astronaut or you know, fly to the moon, and not many of us actually go ahead and do it. Let alone. Again, as I mentioned before, they're eighteen. And yet you actually did go on to spend two hundred and ten days at sea and grew up very very quickly, a massive challenge. How did you deal with that growth? I mean, I can't actually fathom a twelve to sixteen year old having the mental strength to even put together this plan. How did you do that? I would have growl inside your brain. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you'll discover some screws loose, were going to get a long just fine. Yeah, It is really interesting because quite often I kind of feel like I get kind of stuck in these conversations where some people get it and some people, you know, maybe the parents or something, and they just cannot understand it. And I think there are some kids that maybe are really driven and clear on what they want to do at a young age. I mean, look at the incredible amount of athletes who are so focused from a young age. And then there's others who aren't. And that's great, you know, be that kid to have a childhood heart and child like please be care exactly. But there are those examples of kids who and some people kind of go, oh, yeah, I can I know a kid like that who was really determined and clear on what they wanted to do from an early age. And for whatever reason that was, that was me, and you know that's why my parents reluctantly went along with it. And obviously a lot of other people became part of it along the way, and they think snowball, Yes, what they do for you, Yeah, not for every kid. But what was really wonderful and why I very much feel privileged to be sitting with you today, is that I did follow along very much. Most of Australia followed along, watching you go from sort of expressing this stream and having you know your training sales and getting prepared to then that enormous amount of time out in open water and not just that, but on your own at an age where a lot of us aren't used to solitude and maybe don't have the sort of mental power to sit in that. What was that like for you? And then also when you came back going straight into the opposite, Yes, in a big way, and you know to your early point about like that growth and how do you prepare for something like that? Well, actually I feel like mentally had done it before setting off, because so much of it was visualizing and imagining what it's going to be, like, do I really want to do that? How's that going to feel? So getting out there was almost a bit of a case of okay, time to get on with it. A lot of the growth and learning I think had actually come beforehand, because obviously it was years of preparation too, and so much of that with a huge, amazing team of people. That's really I think the bigger piece of growth way the voyage itself. Yeah yeah, I mean, maybe maybe we're not all capable of spending childred and ten days alone. It's supposed to be. It's supposed to be this terrible thing when we lock people up. But when you want to do it, you've got a purpose you don't feel alone. It's that classic kind of idea of you know, you can feel alone in a crowd of people. I did not feel lonely out there. I felt like I was part of a team of people, and I felt connected with people all around the world following the trip. And yeah, just I don't know. Humans are incredibly adaptable, and for me it's maybe a bit of a case of don't overthinking. Yeah, I mean, they truly are adaptable. And that was one of the incredible things about watching you was going from watching you sit on this incredibly peaceful water and look out and just marvel at the beauty of the environment at an age where most of us are sort of watching TV and not really paying much attention to the beauty of the environment. But then you know, a couple of weeks later, in the throes of the wilder storm, genuinely wondering whether you might make it through, and again at such a young age facing that kind of fear, were there moments where you were like, I can't do this and how do you pivot? In those moments? There were those moments though, the wondering whether like how my boat and I going to sort of withstand the force of what we were experiencing in terms of you know, waves and knockdowns, the boat being rolled upside down. So yeah, there were There was really probably only the worst storm where there was a period of hours where it was really hard to comprehend how we could survive. But my head was probably quite blanking in those few hours. It was that was good like it was. It was the time after that where I was really able to kind of comprehend how how Diocee was. But in terms of a moment of kind of I've had enough. And I think that was so funny. When I was working with Netflix on the movie, they really wanted me to have had this moment right because it would have just been passed such good to me and you need that clear, distinct moment where you're like gonna give up and what was that thing that kept you going? And they really there really wasn't. It's not to say it was incredibly hard. I wasn't really miserable and you know, good old crying sessions and all of that sort of messy stuff and felt miserable, but there were a lot of positive kind of strategies for coping, and I got better at it. And also when it really comes down to it, I didn't have a choice. Yeah, so you had to keep going. So people ask for advice on really li ins and stuff, and it's like, like, please, please, like balance this advice with the good things where you do need to look after yourself and the rest when you can, and all of those things. But put yourself in a situation where the easiest thing to do or the only thing to do, is to keep going, and believe it or not, you'll probably keep going. Oh my goodness, And it really does seem like you have continued to do that. You have just kept on keeping on and like you said, been so incredibly adaptable, which makes you such an amazing candidate for this podcast. You are literally a walking pivot. And I mean, if anyone hasn't, I think most of Australia probably has. But if anyone hasn't engaged with the details of your incredible journey, I could watch and listen, you know, over and over again. So please do go back and revisit that what I'm fascinated to talk to you about is really that kind of messy middle, which is what came next, because I think what happens when we set these huge goals, especially ones that are kind of unlikely or against some serious odds that we might achieve them. Is it then when you do, like what comes next? Who are you when your identity isn't sailing around the world or when it is sailing around the world and suddenly you've got this media scrum at you that you didn't necessarily sign up for. It was like, you know, what's next? What are you going to do better that? And it's like, oh, yes, there's one play that we the second Navigate, you have a driver's license, you know, some things like that. Yeah, so it was it was funny, but there really was that. And the thing is about this what's next and what are you going to do to better that? Is it's we want something dramatic and like, you know, media worthy. It wasn't kind of a people weren't really that enthusiastic when they're like, okay, you're going to go finish and yeah you want to go study what like? That's we wanted something dramatic and spectacular. That's the sense I had. And it was obviously then really interesting to kind of navigate what do I really want to do compared to what what do other people want for me. In a way though, I was sort of maybe it was lucky that I had this whirl and incredible couple of years of book tours all around the world Young Australian of the Year and what an humbling extraordinary experience that was, you know, to actually win that against finalists who are doing these incredibly selfless, amazing things and spend time with people like that. So there was these couple of years of just extraordinary things that probably did give me a bit of a period to kind of try things, to be very busy and enjoy a lot of things before I really had to kind of go what do I actually want to do next? And it's really interesting because I think most people's pathways, and particularly in that kind of chapter of your life, are like the decisions we make are equal parts being influenced by societal expectations or family or other people's you know, external factors, and then half of that is also what do I want to do? And I think the rest of your life really is the balance of that. And for that first two years it was on such a high. Did you ever have a bit of a come down when you suddenly weren't doing the big you know, record breaking thing or did you seek something quieter? I didn't. And it is interesting because so many other athletes and fellow adventurers have kind of done similar things, have experienced that, but I really didn't. Wow. I think it was just so extraordinary the world wind of experience that got to be part of and then kind of quite quickly jumping into things like a youth Sye Hobat campaign and some pretty big things like that that were really challenging me in new and different ways quite quickly, was probably good. There's probably a few points through that where I was probably a bit like I look back now and realize it's probably a bit of kind of burnout from them the pace of it all. But it wasn't. It really wasn't that kind of moment that I think a lot of people experience. If anything, it was kind of later when I realized, oh, I've got to keep putting challenges in front of myself and keep having things that are going to keep me fulfilled. And that's kind of the point where I started looking to study and to going oh, what snakes, Well, actually, I think I do want to go back to school, which is so interesting because you're right so many people who are adventurers as their sort of default title do live off the adrenaline of continuing on that pathway and do have a bit of a coutdown when they reach that goal and then wait for the next thing. When you were sort of planning what the other avenues were and then you kind of were thrust into the spotlight, but also in the background, shying away from fame and working out what you wanted. How did you work that out? Did you sit down? Did you ask people? Did you get any therapy? Like did you have a careers counselor no, there's no careers counselor no? No, actually there was no. Yeah, I kind of psych at that point in life either. I mean, I was definitely trial and error. I think was probably one of my bigger methods. BoA's found that fairly effective. It was a great one. Yeah. I love that you don't overthink it. Yeah, but no, I do. I do actually recognize that I'm, for whatever reason, I'm quite lucky, and that I've never struggled with kind of indecision. I've probably more thrown myself into everything and gone, oh my gosh, now, how how do I keep up? So lucky? In that regard, because I do see a lot of people really struggle with that. You know, what do I do?
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Speaker 2: Then?
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Speaker 1: Obviously that's for me as a place of real privilege. I had an incredible you know, number of different directions I could have taken life and career as well. Can you give us a bit of an overview of the timeline of your education after the voyage and how it all kind of unraveled. Yeah, the timeline was interesting. Probably wasn't too long after getting back that I did start this sort of night school thing. Got a few subjects done, cut a few corners in all honesty, but I certainly didn't kind of get the perfect grades and do it the way you're supposed to. But I kind of wanted to do something that represented finishing school for me. Yeah, if it wasn't really required, So it was actually probably within six months or something where I'd kind of gone and done that, you know, at the same time as the book was being written and all these other things as well. And then after that it would have been a good year maybe if things like you Sidney Hobalt, which was extraordinary learning in terms of leadership and other skill sets. And after that I found my way to university, possibly also in large part because it's what friends around me were doing, influencing in a good way. Yeah, I think what I found with university was that I was actually really enjoying it. I think another thing that influenced that was being a youth representative of the in that Nations World Food Program and getting to see some extraordinary but very challenged parts of the world, and you know, talking to young people who were not much younger than me and how much education meant to them and how much would have meant to them to be able to continue and kind of, yeah, a bit of a sort of slap in the face in terms of wake up call of what apprivileged education was. So so, yeah, I did a Project Management diploma and then I suppose got to the end of the study and kind of went, well, I'm I'm really enjoying this and I do want to keep challenging myself in this regard. So ended up going down the path of doing an MBA as well, which I really thoroughly enjoyed. Kind of again quite a general way to study, which was really interesting to me to be able to study a bit of everything. So I think that there are these other sort of pathways that may work better for some people. I love that reminder because I do think that we have this view of what's the conventional way to get into UNI or to do a certain pathway, and then once you've missed that, I think people self select themselves out of it because they're worried that they can't keep up, or they won't know what to do, or they've been out of the game for so long. And I mean, you're such an amazing example that it's not their way at all. Absolutely not. You seem like an amazing advocate for doing things slightly differently. Yeah. Probably. I think going back to education is already quite overwhelming when you've had some time away from it, but experiencing dyslexia can often add another layer of apprehension or challenge or maybe fear for someone people, particularly for some of our listeners who might be experiencing justlexro as well. Was that how it sort of manifested for you or do you have any tips that have helped you along the way to manage it or to even you know, coel the fear that you have going back into the education system.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I think luckily I found the ability to kind of study in your own ways, and the great tools out there to help meant that it was fairly easy through study. I think it's a really cool thing to come back to higher education kind of on your own terms, you know, studying because you want to. Yeah, that initial fear and that kind of desire to prove myself that I could do this was quite significant and very significant then going into a career, and that was something I was very kind of wary of and I wasn't quite sure how it was going to work, you know, because my colleagues are incredibly bright people, and then you know, there's a little world dislexing me to can really finish school. And I suppose I think I knew it a little bit to start with, by I wish I'd got this sooner. And you see this with a lot of people, you know, starting out in anything in terms of a career or a job that do back what you do have in terms of your different experiences and you can bring to the table. And for me, you know, I probably should have even sooner kind of trusted myself in terms of my experience, and you know, now I'm at this amazing place where I really don't care about my dislexingness and sometimes the ridiculous spelling errors and kind of things that do happen. And you had the fear of taking notes in front of people in the early days and so significant, But now I'm like, I really don't care, because I really trust what I have to bring to the table. And yeah, of course there's probably a bit of an element of credibility that might be undermined if if you can't write some fairly basic words. But at the same time, there's such great technology and ways around it these days, and I just really have kind of confidence in and what I can bring and what I can bring because of being dyslexic as well. Well. I definitely want to chat about what that incredible basis now in your MBA has done for you. And again another huge pivot, but still while we're in this messy middle, another major major life change that has happened to you, and that perhaps people who followed you earlier on and haven't caught up might not know about, and that is the loss of your long term partner, Cam, which was obviously a huge shock, quite out of the blue. He passed away from a catastrophic stroke at the age of twenty nine, which is just so young and so young for you as well in your life after ten years together adventuring. That's a life pivot I don't think many people ever have to face. Can you talk to us a bit about that redirection in your life? Yeah, it's really really significant, and it's kind of crazy for me to obviously talk about life pivots without acknowledging that this is the biggest of them all and far more significant to me then obviously the sailing around the world thing that everyone knows me for. But yeah, you know, we had that ten years together and had just assumed that there was the future forever. So that was the sort of life plan and pathway, and the extent to which that has shaped me is just extraordinary. Obviously shaped me in terms of who I was and growing up together, but also I suppose that period of grief and learning to cope through that has really really shaped who I am today, and in quite an incredible way. I would never have imagined it. And there's no silver lining or anything like that. There's absolutely nothing that sort of makes it okay in a way. But gosh, that cliche around being grateful and leaning into the good things for me is just so powerful. Yeah, just really realizing you have to kind of take life and really grab it and squeeze everything good it gives you because you just don't know what's around the corner. Yeah, And obviously being able to sort of get to this place is just so much because of the extraordinary people had around me who really helped me up through the worst of that period and then sort of helped me find my feet again through that. I think you have such extraordinary strength, and I've shown that, I mean many many times. But most people, when they have circumnavigated the world solo at such a young age, probably think they've had their fair share of challenge and that there might not be no another huge, extraordinary pivot around the corner. Do you have any advice for the fact that a pivot does sometimes involve grieving the loss of expectations, grieving the loss of a direction you thought you'd have and that you can't get back, because that's I mean, something lots of people face in different forms. Yeah, absolutely, and that was very significant. That was such a big part of it, as grieving at the future that I just know in mindsight obviously just naively assumed because at that age and having not really experienced a lot of loss, I just I didn't know that what the sort of thing was kind of possible, which is very lucky and naive. But yeah, in terms of advice, I don't know. I mean, there's I know, other things that worked for me. Yeah, I suppose there's that the things around you, letting yourself feel good stuff and enjoy you when you can, obviously, but it was just in terms of, yeah, that expectation around the future, it was a complete rebuilding and to slowly kind of put things back in place, and you know, early days it was kind of quite short term to give myself short term things to look forward to, and goodness, my siblings were amazing with putting a lot of good holidays in no plan and things I realized I realize now, but then going oh, actually what's important and sort of you know, shorter term, and then that gradually built back to longer. I think one thing that was also just really extraordinary for me is that I was so lucky that I was a place I was really enjoying my work, so I had this ability to kind of step back in and treat work as this helpful thing, which is kind of a it's just great and that gave me, I suppose the stability and kind of routine through the kind of period where I was re orientating, because it really was like in sailing, we probably another other kind of sports and things too, if this idea of calibrating a compass, and for me, that's what it felt like. It was just like I've got to re establish all these connections and sensor direction and relationships in the world, which is a beautiful way to look at it. And I think it. You know, the pain of grief and loss is something that perhaps from the outside before you've experienced it, you do look at it as something that you can come through and that can kind of get better. And I think it's something that doesn't go away. It's just something that you learn to work through or to work with. How did you give yourself grace for how long it might take? Oh gosh, that cliche about your heart getting stronger, like the grief doesn't change, it's still there, but you know your heart growing around That is so true, And gosh, it's extraordinary how strong your heart can grow. I'm not sure I gave myself like I didn't think much in terms of timelines and things, I suppose, but one thing I certainly did was kind of give myself the grace just to I don't know, like I not not care. I still cared deeply, but just oh, I didn't take things seriously and I didn't put the pressure on, and I just felt like I had no energy to be anything other than just the honest raw self. That was so actually incredibly liberating, Like I don't have energy for kind of a mask and pretending to be this polished professional. Yes, I'm just gonna be me, and yeah, it turns out that's actually really great. That's so. I feel like it's such a well adjusted human being. And you've done all this like de before. Most people ever have to have this depth of emotional resilience, but you seem so good at it. Yeah. I mean it comes with the very very messy but yeah, no, highly highly recommend that I just like completely take the pressure off yourself. Do not go around pretending to be okay, yeah, and to be someone you're not. It's just too much energy. Yeah, And I think that is something that people do in any form of challenging time is definitely masked and there's something about the expectation of stoicism as well. I think maybe it's cultural that we're quite like she'll be right, and I think that that sometimes we do need to give ourselves a little bit more. Yeah, liberty, as you said, freedom to feel what we feel and for it to take some time. Yeah, absolutely, because I mean I do look back at that period and I know talk about work being such a positive thing, but I was also working part time, and yeah, had that time to just grieve as well, and that was obviously a big part of being able to cope in a constructive way. Yeah. Well, I mean you are again. I thought you were my hero before, but you are. You are truly one of the strongest people I think any of us have ever come across now. I mean, I've loved reading about the journey that you have turned your MBA into because, as you mentioned, you had a big outlet in your work. Can you explain to anyone who hasn't kept up what you now do, because it does seem a little bit incongruous for someone who spent so much time out on the open waters to now be in an office. Yeah, those people sitting in corporate Yeah, it's been seven and a half years Why no, right, which is yeah, I didn't really imagine as Yeah, started at Deloitte seven and a half years ago, so in human capital consulting, so HR type consulting, and these days, as the rest of the world is, I suppose it is very focused on HI technology and I love it. I'm this widow who loves my job. Of course, it's tough at times, and you know, I don't always love that the hours are quite as you know, as long as would be ideal, but genuinely enjoy it. And I suppose all those years ago, seven and a half years ago, did come to it with this kind of real drive to want to have something that was separate from that sixteen year old me. I think I was, particularly at that point, going through a real period of being pretty over myself and my own story. Still am to be clear, Really you've heard it, but you've spoken about it, so yeah, it's fascinating to me every time I hear it. I don't think we'll ever get sick of it. Unfortunately, I'm it's like, honestly, it's like you pull hairs out of my head or something. It's like it's literally like, oh, but I've got a lot better at just kind of embracing that. But yeah, that's that's one of the things I think A Camp's death has also really taught me is just like, get out of your own way. Just tell people the stories they want to hear. And it's not actually about me. It's let other people enjoy it. So, you know, do speak a lot. I sill of a lot of corporate speaking, and I just go there. I'm so privileged to have the attention of you know, sometimes hundreds of people. It's not about you just because you don't want to tell the same old story, like they actually want that classic the good story about the boat rolling upside down and so ye like just give it to them. Just play the people about you. Actually, you know, it's about the thing. You're so privileged to have these people's time and attention. Oh that's a beautiful way to see it. But I mean it is also incredible to see that you have found such a different chapter and that you are loving it so much because it does seem not the direction I think we would expect when you do think of a sailor out on the open water. So what does your weak look like now? And are you getting out on the water because another thing that I loved in I think it was Australian story that was talking about that sort of a couple of years wading your way through the grief, was that it was honoring Cam to keep sailing and that the whole team kind of felt that way. Yeah, yeah, gush, I'm so so lucky the group of friends we have, And yeah, sailing obviously such a big part of all our lives and day to day these days it's often weekends racing and then in summer twilight sailing on a Thursday night. So yeah, it's gorgeous, and you know, it's actually not kind of there's no big dramatic adventures or anything too serious on the cards right now, but life revolves around Thursday night sailing. I'm very serious about a casual sale. You take your hobbies very seriously. So yeah, no, love it more than ever and kind of life does revolve around it. But yeah, obviously I'm not spending all day every day doing it anymore exactly, but I think that's a really for me right now. It's a really wonderful, wonderful way to enjoy sailing. Yeah, yeah, around the busyness of other aspects of life, and yeah, in terms of what a week looks like, they're not often the same, which is probably a big part of what I'm enjoying it for. And you know, I do find myself sort of getting to fly off to some pretty amazing parts of the world to speak. And then for weeks I actually really enjoy I just week at home in the office. I'm formally four days, which to me really is incredible. I think it means that I come in, I get just as much done as I would have full time. But that bit of flexibility is just magic, that bit of variety for anyone who possibly can. I know it's not possible for a lot of people, but if you can get to those four days, it's just just an incredible thing too. I think it's a big part of why I love work too, And I love the idea that it's often the things that are the opposite of your work, or that are so unrelated to it that balance often makes you so much better at what you do. So, I mean, you've completely changed on your life by taking on a corporate role, and obviously it has been a big chapter already, but you've done it so many times now for someone who's just in their very early thirties, for anyone else who is perhaps scared to take such big leaps, I think it seems to feel really natural for you, But I think the average person is quite overcome by fear when they step into a new environment or a foreign environment like an office if you've never worked in one before. What is that initial phase like for you of a pivot and how are you adapting so effortlessly into completely new environments? Oh? And it was pretty bad in my early weeks. Yeah, was it rough? Is it like a rough adjustment? Do you have kind of a bumpy start or do you just are you just like so adaptable that it's not fun? No, I mean it's yeah, it's interesting. I've done so many different things up until that point, and worked a lot with the corporate world, but this was the first real experience in it. And when I say it's bad, I'm particularly thinking how great play arem So the people was so generous in those first weeks and months. But yeah, I mean I think I suppose everything through life. It's kind of in a way. The first few weeks of a sea voyage are often gonna be very tough, especially solo one, you might be kind of a bit seasick and kind of really getting your sea legs, getting used to sort of bad sleep cycles, and then actually learning to get enough sleep, and obviously the whole being alone thing and adjusting to that as well. So I think I went into the voyage being very prepared for the first kind of months to be kind of grim and to just sort of mentally slog it out. And I think I probably did approach, you know, starting at Deloitte with that same mentality of that it's going to be a tough first few months, you know, that adjustments, just all the things there learning and just kind of the important thing there is it's going to get better, because yeah, it is tough right now, but that doesn't mean it's going to be always this tough. I love that expect the discomfort and know that it's a process, and then it's not such as a yeah, because I think they judge really quickly as well, Like if we feel a little bit uncomfortable, it's like, oh, I hate this or I'm not built for this, and it's like, no, you're just doing something new. Give it a minute before you judge, exactly, And the judge obviously, but let that adjustment happen first. Do you foresee any other big pivots? Like it sort of looks like your life has gone in these big chapters. Are you looking for new chapters? Is that how? Or are you kind of passive and you wait until a new chapter falls upon your lap? Like, I think they'll be wrong? What do you want? Maybe? Maybe? Who knows? The funny thing is right, there's so many people who talk, you know, especially my circles and sailors and things, talk about your dream about heading off and sailing the world, you know, the Pacific, And how do you full it down and feel like I did that? I'm like, no, I love life. I like the routines and the privilege of, like, you know, being around friends and family and things. There's so many good things in life that it's like, I don't want to throw it all away and go sailing in the tropics or something that's supposed to be the idea heal and they're all striving for Yeah, no, so right now, very contents more than enough variety in life, oh, all sorts of new and beautiful things and just enjoying that. Who knows what the future holds, But I'm not worrying aheads too much, but they do often say, you know, you meant to create a life that you don't want to run away from. Like, the reason why people are hanging out for the holidays is usually because they're not as happy in what they're doing. And I love that you've built a life for yourself that you love and that you're content with. But I mean, in that sense, and in many senses, you are, as I mentioned at the beginning, my hero. I think you famously, Like you're often quoted as saying this to the then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, that you don't consider yourself a hero, That you're an ordinary girl who just believed in her dream. You've just got to have a dream, believe in it and work hard. That's profound for an adult, little a teenager. Is that still the ideology that you live by? Yeah, yeah, it is. And I mean, of course there's the layers of adult realism that come as well layers of reality, like, yeah, of course I do realize. Obviously there's a degree of privilege. I was, you know, not like the whole voyage was not financially possible because my parents or anything like that. It was sponsors and other amazing people, but obviously there was still some privilege that enabled me to you know, be int a yacht club in the first place and things like that. So I definitely recognize that that, and then I also recognize I suppose that, yeah, anything's possible, but it's more the question of, but are you willing to actually sacrifice what it'll take to get there? Yeah, And like a lot of the time that answers no. And that's fair because you know so, I definitely still still believe in that. It's not to say it's easy, that's for sure. It is pretty extraordinary what we can do well. You certainly don't shy away from a challenge. But it is interesting then that you mentioned the financial side of things, because I also think that's something that we skate over a lot when we're talking about big dreams and big life pivots. Can you talk a bit about the financial side of becoming an author and doing the speaking gigs. Is it financially viable? Because I know that a lot of the time writing books seems a lot more lucrative than perhaps it is. How does the money side work out for you? Yeah? I mean the first book around the voyage was incredible because the publisher was as much a sponsor of the voyage than any So that was an amazing and probably quite a unique experience in that regard. But then, yeah, my second book, novel for young adults, was definitely a process of realizing, Wow, this is an amazing thing to do, but it's not actually a steady, solid career. Yeah. Yeah, Luckily it's a career that I enjoy, but it's obviously also some stability, and that's a wonderful thing to pay boat bills. Yeah, and you're juggling so many different things, so I mean it's wonderful, as you said, the diversity that you have. How do you juggle it energy wise or chaotically? And this is probably an area of life I should I've just like, how are you not chronically burnt out from all the things that you're doing? And have you learnt through from such a young age taking on so many high profile, big things. How do you self manage if you do it all? Yeah? Because I certainly don't thinking about what my sister or like mum or something would I would say, you hear me talking about this, because I think they often you know, and I suppose they see the side to me where I turn up back at their place in it in a bit of a heape, you know, you know where you've given every last bit of energy and you're kind of a mess. So that's probably, yeah, an area for improvement in terms of not just kind of giving it everything and then kind of falling apart. Yeah, the crash and burn. I mean, it's it's effective. Sometimes you get a lot done and right that adrenaline is an amazing thing. Was also kind of a coping strategy for a while too, so kind of had its place. But that's probably something I should spend some more time working on and have a little bit too, I think in terms of yeah, wellness, etc. Well, just as a last question to finish up, there's a saying that I always come back to, which is the idea that we can only ever connect the dots looking back, and that they do often connect in such a beautiful, sometimes unexpected way when you look back at all the various experiences that you've had and are still having. I think another thing about pivoting is that the things you do in life often set you up really well for the things that you do next, even if they don't relate. Is there anything from sailing that you've acquired or actually from any of your experiences that make you really great at what you do? Now? Maybe, I mean there is obviously something and the kind of sheer resilience like getting going actually setbacks, that's they're great. Yeah, I think you got really good at those really young. Yeah. Just remember that little debacle with the ship where yeah, like that's the ultimate example of your mask was crushed in half before you started. We are real bad, like sort of global media storm situation, real grim, but it's pretty incredible to look back on that and go, you got through that. Yeah, you can get through this as well. Yeah, So things you survive can be quite powerful. But yeah, there's loads of things that have been transferable. Like, you know, it was an uncle who taught me the idea of a grunt chart and project management as this fifteen year old, and like, obviously that's just kind of so fundamental to work in things these days. So there are there's concepts that have been really powerful and useful throughout for me. Yeah, and then some of those mental fools, And I think for me that probably the thing that's remained consistently useful is kind of this weird ability to sort of simplify a lot of the time, which probably is in large part thanks to being quite dyslexic. That's something I've always really needed to do, and it actually it's proved to be what I feel like is probably the thing I bring most useful to work these days. In this really complex environment and fast moving world. I've just got to simplify things, and turns out a lot of other people want that to so it's octically really useful. Well that is, I mean, an incredibly useful piece of advice to finish on because I think, as I said before, we over complicate things and overthink things all the time so often get in our own way, and to be able to simplify things is truly a valuable, invaluable, actually life skill, just as you are a truly extraordinary walking life skill and incredible person. So thank you so much for sharing so generously today. It's been wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Pivot Club. There'll be a new app dropping next week, so make sure you hit follow ever you're listening so you don't miss it. And if you love the show, Please tell a friend or give it a rating and a review in your podcast app. It means the world, and it really is the best way to help us spread the word. This episode of Pivot Club was produced by Sally Best with audio production by Jacob Brownd. The executive producer is Courtney Ammenhauser. See you next time.
Speaker 1: You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
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Speaker 2: Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land. We have recorded this podcast on the Gadigul people of the Eur Nation. We pay our respects to their elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Speaker 1: Hi, it's Sarah Davidson here. I'm a corporate lawyer turned entrepreneur, writer, and most importantly in this instance, podcast host. I'm dropping into your feed today to share with you a brand new Momma mea podcast called Pivot Club, which is all about unpacking professional plot twists. It's a new year, and if you've been thinking about how to make your own pivot happen in twenty twenty six, this is the ideal podcast to give you some inspo and real world advice on how to make it your new reality. We'll be serving you a new episode every Wednesday and Friday in your restart feed, So without further ado, let's dive into today's episode. Enjoy. Have you ever been deep into a life you've spent years building, only to have this nagging feeling that it's just not right anymore, that feeling when you look at the path you're on and say, this isn't where or who I'm meant to be. This is Pivot Club, and I'm your host. Sarah Davidson, a fellow member of the Pivot Club. In a past life, I was an m and a lawyer. I'd done the exams, I'd ticked all the boxes, and then I decided to change course completely and run my own business matcha maiden. That one decision put me on a totally new path as an entrepreneur, content creator, and podcast host. But today isn't about my story. It's about someone who didn't just wonder what life would be like if they changed course. It's about someone who actually did it. Here we get inside those moments of rewriting history and unpacking professional plot twists. So let's dive into their story of courage, of uncertainty, and of what happens when you decide to join the Pivot Club. You will know today's guest as National treasure Jessica Watson. We all watched holding our breath as she became the youngest person to sale solo, NonStop and unassisted around the world. She was sixteen, and when she returned we all asked, what's next. The unspoken expectation was more, more adventure, more record breaking, something bigger and more dramatic. But Jessica's biggest pivot wasn't what any of us expected. On paper, her next steps look almost ordinary. She finished school, went to UNI, did an MBA, and got a corporate job, and for the last seven and a half years she's been building a career as a management consultant. And that's the pivot we're talking about today. What happens when you achieved the biggest stream of your life before you were even legally eligible to vote. How do you build an identity separate from the one thing everyone knows you for? And how do you find genuine fulfillment in the received ordinary in an office, in a routine when the world expects you to be extraordinary. Twenty four to seven years after her voyage, jess faced a challenge far greater than any storm at sea, the sudden, catastrophic loss of her long term partner, Can that she says, was her real pivot. Jess's story is a profound reminder that sometimes the bravest thing you can do isn't to sail around the world, but to find joy in a quiet life right where you are. Jess, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. It is so surreal to be sitting in front of what has been You know, you're a national treasure, your Australia's sweetheart, and I've followed your journey for so long, so it is a true privilege to be sitting with you today. Oh, thank you very much. That's very generous, and in your sailor stripes as well, which is very very special for the occasion, of course, said Sa We standard, well, of course we are here today to talk about the power of the pivot, and I feel like before you even turned eighteen, you had been through more pivots than most of us have or we'll have in a lifetime. But I think it makes sense to maybe go back to the very beginning to your past life and have a little look at how it all began. So I think you've talked about growing up really outdoorsy, which does make sense. Who introduced you to sailing and tell us about your life growing up? It was a family thing, I suppose. I mean we'd always spent our holidays and weekends doors and camping, and then as an eight year old it was actually for my brother's birthday that we were sent down to the local yacht club as a sort of present for him. And it was then my older sister who really took to it, so she became a great sailor, loved it, and you know, me and my brother and little sister were kind of following along a little bit reluctantly. Actually to start with, I found it quite scary and intimidating. No wait, scary, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was not the confident, kind of outgoing kid with all the courage you'd expect. Gosh, that is so fascinating because now I look at you and think, truly, you are just unstoppable. And it's fascinating to me that you began scared of the thing that you embraced. And so it was only at twelve years old when you first decided that you would embrace sailing and become the youngest person to sail around the world. How did you go from scared of being on the water to such a huge, ambitious goal. I mean, there were lots of things happening in the background right in terms of you know, as a family, we'd really taken to sailing. We were spending our weekends at a yacht club, and we actually went on to live on a boat for a number of years, so we were sort of very much surrounded by this world and perhaps it was having more of an influence on me than I necessarily realized for a while there. And then, of all things, it was a bedtime story that Mum read to me about Jesse Martin, who sailed around the world aged eighteen, another young Australian and Victorian, and that book just sort of didle the damage for me to just put this plan into the CIA exactly. You'll be careful what you read your kids. I'm always telling parents, and you know, be careful of telling them you can do anything you set your mind too, because you know that's what they might go and do it. He told me, and look what happened, and he was like, oh, okay, maybe not that, but yeah, to your point, how do you go from that scared, fearful girl to someone who wants to sail around the world and goes on to do that. Well, the funny thing was I probably wasn't a confident person still when I decided I wanted to do it, it was actually kind of consciously going, well, if I want to do that. I need to change who I am. I can't be this fearful tiard kid who falls apart as soon as the weather turns a bit bad and it's a bit scary. So it was actually a very conscious choice to go, all right, I've got to change, you know, start pretending, start kind of faking it, and then actually, well I do have the experience and I can do this, and actually it's scary, but it's you know, manageable. So yeah, it was actually kind of the reverse of what you might imagine. Yeah, I actually think that's really powerful for our listeners that we do really silo ourselves and think I'm a shy kid, or I don't like public speaking, or you know, I'm really introverted, and I don't think we believe you can decide to change. But you're an incredible example of at such a young age, just deciding actually that's what I need to be. I'll be it. Yeah, I mean, oh gosh, I mean, I think, like one thing about me, I love to simplify things. And if you go we'll work backwards. You know, what are the things you've got to do to make this thing possible? And if one of those things is that you know, you've got to be a slightly more courageous person. Then it's not not to say it's easy. Yeah, if you really want to do something, you know, who do you need to be to do that?
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Speaker 2: Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. And obviously I think a lot of people at twelve do come out with these big exciting dreams like become an astronaut or you know, fly to the moon, and not many of us actually go ahead and do it. Let alone. Again, as I mentioned before, they're eighteen. And yet you actually did go on to spend two hundred and ten days at sea and grew up very very quickly, a massive challenge. How did you deal with that growth? I mean, I can't actually fathom a twelve to sixteen year old having the mental strength to even put together this plan. How did you do that? I would have growl inside your brain. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe you'll discover some screws loose, were going to get a long just fine. Yeah, It is really interesting because quite often I kind of feel like I get kind of stuck in these conversations where some people get it and some people, you know, maybe the parents or something, and they just cannot understand it. And I think there are some kids that maybe are really driven and clear on what they want to do at a young age. I mean, look at the incredible amount of athletes who are so focused from a young age. And then there's others who aren't. And that's great, you know, be that kid to have a childhood heart and child like please be care exactly. But there are those examples of kids who and some people kind of go, oh, yeah, I can I know a kid like that who was really determined and clear on what they wanted to do from an early age. And for whatever reason that was, that was me, and you know that's why my parents reluctantly went along with it. And obviously a lot of other people became part of it along the way, and they think snowball, Yes, what they do for you, Yeah, not for every kid. But what was really wonderful and why I very much feel privileged to be sitting with you today, is that I did follow along very much. Most of Australia followed along, watching you go from sort of expressing this stream and having you know your training sales and getting prepared to then that enormous amount of time out in open water and not just that, but on your own at an age where a lot of us aren't used to solitude and maybe don't have the sort of mental power to sit in that. What was that like for you? And then also when you came back going straight into the opposite, Yes, in a big way, and you know to your early point about like that growth and how do you prepare for something like that? Well, actually I feel like mentally had done it before setting off, because so much of it was visualizing and imagining what it's going to be, like, do I really want to do that? How's that going to feel? So getting out there was almost a bit of a case of okay, time to get on with it. A lot of the growth and learning I think had actually come beforehand, because obviously it was years of preparation too, and so much of that with a huge, amazing team of people. That's really I think the bigger piece of growth way the voyage itself. Yeah yeah, I mean, maybe maybe we're not all capable of spending childred and ten days alone. It's supposed to be. It's supposed to be this terrible thing when we lock people up. But when you want to do it, you've got a purpose you don't feel alone. It's that classic kind of idea of you know, you can feel alone in a crowd of people. I did not feel lonely out there. I felt like I was part of a team of people, and I felt connected with people all around the world following the trip. And yeah, just I don't know. Humans are incredibly adaptable, and for me it's maybe a bit of a case of don't overthinking. Yeah, I mean, they truly are adaptable. And that was one of the incredible things about watching you was going from watching you sit on this incredibly peaceful water and look out and just marvel at the beauty of the environment at an age where most of us are sort of watching TV and not really paying much attention to the beauty of the environment. But then you know, a couple of weeks later, in the throes of the wilder storm, genuinely wondering whether you might make it through, and again at such a young age facing that kind of fear, were there moments where you were like, I can't do this and how do you pivot? In those moments? There were those moments though, the wondering whether like how my boat and I going to sort of withstand the force of what we were experiencing in terms of you know, waves and knockdowns, the boat being rolled upside down. So yeah, there were There was really probably only the worst storm where there was a period of hours where it was really hard to comprehend how we could survive. But my head was probably quite blanking in those few hours. It was that was good like it was. It was the time after that where I was really able to kind of comprehend how how Diocee was. But in terms of a moment of kind of I've had enough. And I think that was so funny. When I was working with Netflix on the movie, they really wanted me to have had this moment right because it would have just been passed such good to me and you need that clear, distinct moment where you're like gonna give up and what was that thing that kept you going? And they really there really wasn't. It's not to say it was incredibly hard. I wasn't really miserable and you know, good old crying sessions and all of that sort of messy stuff and felt miserable, but there were a lot of positive kind of strategies for coping, and I got better at it. And also when it really comes down to it, I didn't have a choice. Yeah, so you had to keep going. So people ask for advice on really li ins and stuff, and it's like, like, please, please, like balance this advice with the good things where you do need to look after yourself and the rest when you can, and all of those things. But put yourself in a situation where the easiest thing to do or the only thing to do, is to keep going, and believe it or not, you'll probably keep going. Oh my goodness, And it really does seem like you have continued to do that. You have just kept on keeping on and like you said, been so incredibly adaptable, which makes you such an amazing candidate for this podcast. You are literally a walking pivot. And I mean, if anyone hasn't, I think most of Australia probably has. But if anyone hasn't engaged with the details of your incredible journey, I could watch and listen, you know, over and over again. So please do go back and revisit that what I'm fascinated to talk to you about is really that kind of messy middle, which is what came next, because I think what happens when we set these huge goals, especially ones that are kind of unlikely or against some serious odds that we might achieve them. Is it then when you do, like what comes next? Who are you when your identity isn't sailing around the world or when it is sailing around the world and suddenly you've got this media scrum at you that you didn't necessarily sign up for. It was like, you know, what's next? What are you going to do better that? And it's like, oh, yes, there's one play that we the second Navigate, you have a driver's license, you know, some things like that. Yeah, so it was it was funny, but there really was that. And the thing is about this what's next and what are you going to do to better that? Is it's we want something dramatic and like, you know, media worthy. It wasn't kind of a people weren't really that enthusiastic when they're like, okay, you're going to go finish and yeah you want to go study what like? That's we wanted something dramatic and spectacular. That's the sense I had. And it was obviously then really interesting to kind of navigate what do I really want to do compared to what what do other people want for me. In a way though, I was sort of maybe it was lucky that I had this whirl and incredible couple of years of book tours all around the world Young Australian of the Year and what an humbling extraordinary experience that was, you know, to actually win that against finalists who are doing these incredibly selfless, amazing things and spend time with people like that. So there was these couple of years of just extraordinary things that probably did give me a bit of a period to kind of try things, to be very busy and enjoy a lot of things before I really had to kind of go what do I actually want to do next? And it's really interesting because I think most people's pathways, and particularly in that kind of chapter of your life, are like the decisions we make are equal parts being influenced by societal expectations or family or other people's you know, external factors, and then half of that is also what do I want to do? And I think the rest of your life really is the balance of that. And for that first two years it was on such a high. Did you ever have a bit of a come down when you suddenly weren't doing the big you know, record breaking thing or did you seek something quieter? I didn't. And it is interesting because so many other athletes and fellow adventurers have kind of done similar things, have experienced that, but I really didn't. Wow. I think it was just so extraordinary the world wind of experience that got to be part of and then kind of quite quickly jumping into things like a youth Sye Hobat campaign and some pretty big things like that that were really challenging me in new and different ways quite quickly, was probably good. There's probably a few points through that where I was probably a bit like I look back now and realize it's probably a bit of kind of burnout from them the pace of it all. But it wasn't. It really wasn't that kind of moment that I think a lot of people experience. If anything, it was kind of later when I realized, oh, I've got to keep putting challenges in front of myself and keep having things that are going to keep me fulfilled. And that's kind of the point where I started looking to study and to going oh, what snakes, Well, actually, I think I do want to go back to school, which is so interesting because you're right so many people who are adventurers as their sort of default title do live off the adrenaline of continuing on that pathway and do have a bit of a coutdown when they reach that goal and then wait for the next thing. When you were sort of planning what the other avenues were and then you kind of were thrust into the spotlight, but also in the background, shying away from fame and working out what you wanted. How did you work that out? Did you sit down? Did you ask people? Did you get any therapy? Like did you have a careers counselor no, there's no careers counselor no? No, actually there was no. Yeah, I kind of psych at that point in life either. I mean, I was definitely trial and error. I think was probably one of my bigger methods. BoA's found that fairly effective. It was a great one. Yeah. I love that you don't overthink it. Yeah, but no, I do. I do actually recognize that I'm, for whatever reason, I'm quite lucky, and that I've never struggled with kind of indecision. I've probably more thrown myself into everything and gone, oh my gosh, now, how how do I keep up? So lucky? In that regard, because I do see a lot of people really struggle with that. You know, what do I do?
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Speaker 2: Then?
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Speaker 1: Obviously that's for me as a place of real privilege. I had an incredible you know, number of different directions I could have taken life and career as well. Can you give us a bit of an overview of the timeline of your education after the voyage and how it all kind of unraveled. Yeah, the timeline was interesting. Probably wasn't too long after getting back that I did start this sort of night school thing. Got a few subjects done, cut a few corners in all honesty, but I certainly didn't kind of get the perfect grades and do it the way you're supposed to. But I kind of wanted to do something that represented finishing school for me. Yeah, if it wasn't really required, So it was actually probably within six months or something where I'd kind of gone and done that, you know, at the same time as the book was being written and all these other things as well. And then after that it would have been a good year maybe if things like you Sidney Hobalt, which was extraordinary learning in terms of leadership and other skill sets. And after that I found my way to university, possibly also in large part because it's what friends around me were doing, influencing in a good way. Yeah, I think what I found with university was that I was actually really enjoying it. I think another thing that influenced that was being a youth representative of the in that Nations World Food Program and getting to see some extraordinary but very challenged parts of the world, and you know, talking to young people who were not much younger than me and how much education meant to them and how much would have meant to them to be able to continue and kind of, yeah, a bit of a sort of slap in the face in terms of wake up call of what apprivileged education was. So so, yeah, I did a Project Management diploma and then I suppose got to the end of the study and kind of went, well, I'm I'm really enjoying this and I do want to keep challenging myself in this regard. So ended up going down the path of doing an MBA as well, which I really thoroughly enjoyed. Kind of again quite a general way to study, which was really interesting to me to be able to study a bit of everything. So I think that there are these other sort of pathways that may work better for some people. I love that reminder because I do think that we have this view of what's the conventional way to get into UNI or to do a certain pathway, and then once you've missed that, I think people self select themselves out of it because they're worried that they can't keep up, or they won't know what to do, or they've been out of the game for so long. And I mean, you're such an amazing example that it's not their way at all. Absolutely not. You seem like an amazing advocate for doing things slightly differently. Yeah. Probably. I think going back to education is already quite overwhelming when you've had some time away from it, but experiencing dyslexia can often add another layer of apprehension or challenge or maybe fear for someone people, particularly for some of our listeners who might be experiencing justlexro as well. Was that how it sort of manifested for you or do you have any tips that have helped you along the way to manage it or to even you know, coel the fear that you have going back into the education system.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I think luckily I found the ability to kind of study in your own ways, and the great tools out there to help meant that it was fairly easy through study. I think it's a really cool thing to come back to higher education kind of on your own terms, you know, studying because you want to. Yeah, that initial fear and that kind of desire to prove myself that I could do this was quite significant and very significant then going into a career, and that was something I was very kind of wary of and I wasn't quite sure how it was going to work, you know, because my colleagues are incredibly bright people, and then you know, there's a little world dislexing me to can really finish school. And I suppose I think I knew it a little bit to start with, by I wish I'd got this sooner. And you see this with a lot of people, you know, starting out in anything in terms of a career or a job that do back what you do have in terms of your different experiences and you can bring to the table. And for me, you know, I probably should have even sooner kind of trusted myself in terms of my experience, and you know, now I'm at this amazing place where I really don't care about my dislexingness and sometimes the ridiculous spelling errors and kind of things that do happen. And you had the fear of taking notes in front of people in the early days and so significant, But now I'm like, I really don't care, because I really trust what I have to bring to the table. And yeah, of course there's probably a bit of an element of credibility that might be undermined if if you can't write some fairly basic words. But at the same time, there's such great technology and ways around it these days, and I just really have kind of confidence in and what I can bring and what I can bring because of being dyslexic as well. Well. I definitely want to chat about what that incredible basis now in your MBA has done for you. And again another huge pivot, but still while we're in this messy middle, another major major life change that has happened to you, and that perhaps people who followed you earlier on and haven't caught up might not know about, and that is the loss of your long term partner, Cam, which was obviously a huge shock, quite out of the blue. He passed away from a catastrophic stroke at the age of twenty nine, which is just so young and so young for you as well in your life after ten years together adventuring. That's a life pivot I don't think many people ever have to face. Can you talk to us a bit about that redirection in your life? Yeah, it's really really significant, and it's kind of crazy for me to obviously talk about life pivots without acknowledging that this is the biggest of them all and far more significant to me then obviously the sailing around the world thing that everyone knows me for. But yeah, you know, we had that ten years together and had just assumed that there was the future forever. So that was the sort of life plan and pathway, and the extent to which that has shaped me is just extraordinary. Obviously shaped me in terms of who I was and growing up together, but also I suppose that period of grief and learning to cope through that has really really shaped who I am today, and in quite an incredible way. I would never have imagined it. And there's no silver lining or anything like that. There's absolutely nothing that sort of makes it okay in a way. But gosh, that cliche around being grateful and leaning into the good things for me is just so powerful. Yeah, just really realizing you have to kind of take life and really grab it and squeeze everything good it gives you because you just don't know what's around the corner. Yeah, And obviously being able to sort of get to this place is just so much because of the extraordinary people had around me who really helped me up through the worst of that period and then sort of helped me find my feet again through that. I think you have such extraordinary strength, and I've shown that, I mean many many times. But most people, when they have circumnavigated the world solo at such a young age, probably think they've had their fair share of challenge and that there might not be no another huge, extraordinary pivot around the corner. Do you have any advice for the fact that a pivot does sometimes involve grieving the loss of expectations, grieving the loss of a direction you thought you'd have and that you can't get back, because that's I mean, something lots of people face in different forms. Yeah, absolutely, and that was very significant. That was such a big part of it, as grieving at the future that I just know in mindsight obviously just naively assumed because at that age and having not really experienced a lot of loss, I just I didn't know that what the sort of thing was kind of possible, which is very lucky and naive. But yeah, in terms of advice, I don't know. I mean, there's I know, other things that worked for me. Yeah, I suppose there's that the things around you, letting yourself feel good stuff and enjoy you when you can, obviously, but it was just in terms of, yeah, that expectation around the future, it was a complete rebuilding and to slowly kind of put things back in place, and you know, early days it was kind of quite short term to give myself short term things to look forward to, and goodness, my siblings were amazing with putting a lot of good holidays in no plan and things I realized I realize now, but then going oh, actually what's important and sort of you know, shorter term, and then that gradually built back to longer. I think one thing that was also just really extraordinary for me is that I was so lucky that I was a place I was really enjoying my work, so I had this ability to kind of step back in and treat work as this helpful thing, which is kind of a it's just great and that gave me, I suppose the stability and kind of routine through the kind of period where I was re orientating, because it really was like in sailing, we probably another other kind of sports and things too, if this idea of calibrating a compass, and for me, that's what it felt like. It was just like I've got to re establish all these connections and sensor direction and relationships in the world, which is a beautiful way to look at it. And I think it. You know, the pain of grief and loss is something that perhaps from the outside before you've experienced it, you do look at it as something that you can come through and that can kind of get better. And I think it's something that doesn't go away. It's just something that you learn to work through or to work with. How did you give yourself grace for how long it might take? Oh gosh, that cliche about your heart getting stronger, like the grief doesn't change, it's still there, but you know your heart growing around That is so true, And gosh, it's extraordinary how strong your heart can grow. I'm not sure I gave myself like I didn't think much in terms of timelines and things, I suppose, but one thing I certainly did was kind of give myself the grace just to I don't know, like I not not care. I still cared deeply, but just oh, I didn't take things seriously and I didn't put the pressure on, and I just felt like I had no energy to be anything other than just the honest raw self. That was so actually incredibly liberating, Like I don't have energy for kind of a mask and pretending to be this polished professional. Yes, I'm just gonna be me, and yeah, it turns out that's actually really great. That's so. I feel like it's such a well adjusted human being. And you've done all this like de before. Most people ever have to have this depth of emotional resilience, but you seem so good at it. Yeah. I mean it comes with the very very messy but yeah, no, highly highly recommend that I just like completely take the pressure off yourself. Do not go around pretending to be okay, yeah, and to be someone you're not. It's just too much energy. Yeah, And I think that is something that people do in any form of challenging time is definitely masked and there's something about the expectation of stoicism as well. I think maybe it's cultural that we're quite like she'll be right, and I think that that sometimes we do need to give ourselves a little bit more. Yeah, liberty, as you said, freedom to feel what we feel and for it to take some time. Yeah, absolutely, because I mean I do look back at that period and I know talk about work being such a positive thing, but I was also working part time, and yeah, had that time to just grieve as well, and that was obviously a big part of being able to cope in a constructive way. Yeah. Well, I mean you are again. I thought you were my hero before, but you are. You are truly one of the strongest people I think any of us have ever come across now. I mean, I've loved reading about the journey that you have turned your MBA into because, as you mentioned, you had a big outlet in your work. Can you explain to anyone who hasn't kept up what you now do, because it does seem a little bit incongruous for someone who spent so much time out on the open waters to now be in an office. Yeah, those people sitting in corporate Yeah, it's been seven and a half years Why no, right, which is yeah, I didn't really imagine as Yeah, started at Deloitte seven and a half years ago, so in human capital consulting, so HR type consulting, and these days, as the rest of the world is, I suppose it is very focused on HI technology and I love it. I'm this widow who loves my job. Of course, it's tough at times, and you know, I don't always love that the hours are quite as you know, as long as would be ideal, but genuinely enjoy it. And I suppose all those years ago, seven and a half years ago, did come to it with this kind of real drive to want to have something that was separate from that sixteen year old me. I think I was, particularly at that point, going through a real period of being pretty over myself and my own story. Still am to be clear, Really you've heard it, but you've spoken about it, so yeah, it's fascinating to me every time I hear it. I don't think we'll ever get sick of it. Unfortunately, I'm it's like, honestly, it's like you pull hairs out of my head or something. It's like it's literally like, oh, but I've got a lot better at just kind of embracing that. But yeah, that's that's one of the things I think A Camp's death has also really taught me is just like, get out of your own way. Just tell people the stories they want to hear. And it's not actually about me. It's let other people enjoy it. So, you know, do speak a lot. I sill of a lot of corporate speaking, and I just go there. I'm so privileged to have the attention of you know, sometimes hundreds of people. It's not about you just because you don't want to tell the same old story, like they actually want that classic the good story about the boat rolling upside down and so ye like just give it to them. Just play the people about you. Actually, you know, it's about the thing. You're so privileged to have these people's time and attention. Oh that's a beautiful way to see it. But I mean it is also incredible to see that you have found such a different chapter and that you are loving it so much because it does seem not the direction I think we would expect when you do think of a sailor out on the open water. So what does your weak look like now? And are you getting out on the water because another thing that I loved in I think it was Australian story that was talking about that sort of a couple of years wading your way through the grief, was that it was honoring Cam to keep sailing and that the whole team kind of felt that way. Yeah, yeah, gush, I'm so so lucky the group of friends we have, And yeah, sailing obviously such a big part of all our lives and day to day these days it's often weekends racing and then in summer twilight sailing on a Thursday night. So yeah, it's gorgeous, and you know, it's actually not kind of there's no big dramatic adventures or anything too serious on the cards right now, but life revolves around Thursday night sailing. I'm very serious about a casual sale. You take your hobbies very seriously. So yeah, no, love it more than ever and kind of life does revolve around it. But yeah, obviously I'm not spending all day every day doing it anymore exactly, but I think that's a really for me right now. It's a really wonderful, wonderful way to enjoy sailing. Yeah, yeah, around the busyness of other aspects of life, and yeah, in terms of what a week looks like, they're not often the same, which is probably a big part of what I'm enjoying it for. And you know, I do find myself sort of getting to fly off to some pretty amazing parts of the world to speak. And then for weeks I actually really enjoy I just week at home in the office. I'm formally four days, which to me really is incredible. I think it means that I come in, I get just as much done as I would have full time. But that bit of flexibility is just magic, that bit of variety for anyone who possibly can. I know it's not possible for a lot of people, but if you can get to those four days, it's just just an incredible thing too. I think it's a big part of why I love work too, And I love the idea that it's often the things that are the opposite of your work, or that are so unrelated to it that balance often makes you so much better at what you do. So, I mean, you've completely changed on your life by taking on a corporate role, and obviously it has been a big chapter already, but you've done it so many times now for someone who's just in their very early thirties, for anyone else who is perhaps scared to take such big leaps, I think it seems to feel really natural for you, But I think the average person is quite overcome by fear when they step into a new environment or a foreign environment like an office if you've never worked in one before. What is that initial phase like for you of a pivot and how are you adapting so effortlessly into completely new environments? Oh? And it was pretty bad in my early weeks. Yeah, was it rough? Is it like a rough adjustment? Do you have kind of a bumpy start or do you just are you just like so adaptable that it's not fun? No, I mean it's yeah, it's interesting. I've done so many different things up until that point, and worked a lot with the corporate world, but this was the first real experience in it. And when I say it's bad, I'm particularly thinking how great play arem So the people was so generous in those first weeks and months. But yeah, I mean I think I suppose everything through life. It's kind of in a way. The first few weeks of a sea voyage are often gonna be very tough, especially solo one, you might be kind of a bit seasick and kind of really getting your sea legs, getting used to sort of bad sleep cycles, and then actually learning to get enough sleep, and obviously the whole being alone thing and adjusting to that as well. So I think I went into the voyage being very prepared for the first kind of months to be kind of grim and to just sort of mentally slog it out. And I think I probably did approach, you know, starting at Deloitte with that same mentality of that it's going to be a tough first few months, you know, that adjustments, just all the things there learning and just kind of the important thing there is it's going to get better, because yeah, it is tough right now, but that doesn't mean it's going to be always this tough. I love that expect the discomfort and know that it's a process, and then it's not such as a yeah, because I think they judge really quickly as well, Like if we feel a little bit uncomfortable, it's like, oh, I hate this or I'm not built for this, and it's like, no, you're just doing something new. Give it a minute before you judge, exactly, And the judge obviously, but let that adjustment happen first. Do you foresee any other big pivots? Like it sort of looks like your life has gone in these big chapters. Are you looking for new chapters? Is that how? Or are you kind of passive and you wait until a new chapter falls upon your lap? Like, I think they'll be wrong? What do you want? Maybe? Maybe? Who knows? The funny thing is right, there's so many people who talk, you know, especially my circles and sailors and things, talk about your dream about heading off and sailing the world, you know, the Pacific, And how do you full it down and feel like I did that? I'm like, no, I love life. I like the routines and the privilege of, like, you know, being around friends and family and things. There's so many good things in life that it's like, I don't want to throw it all away and go sailing in the tropics or something that's supposed to be the idea heal and they're all striving for Yeah, no, so right now, very contents more than enough variety in life, oh, all sorts of new and beautiful things and just enjoying that. Who knows what the future holds, But I'm not worrying aheads too much, but they do often say, you know, you meant to create a life that you don't want to run away from. Like, the reason why people are hanging out for the holidays is usually because they're not as happy in what they're doing. And I love that you've built a life for yourself that you love and that you're content with. But I mean, in that sense, and in many senses, you are, as I mentioned at the beginning, my hero. I think you famously, Like you're often quoted as saying this to the then Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, that you don't consider yourself a hero, That you're an ordinary girl who just believed in her dream. You've just got to have a dream, believe in it and work hard. That's profound for an adult, little a teenager. Is that still the ideology that you live by? Yeah, yeah, it is. And I mean, of course there's the layers of adult realism that come as well layers of reality, like, yeah, of course I do realize. Obviously there's a degree of privilege. I was, you know, not like the whole voyage was not financially possible because my parents or anything like that. It was sponsors and other amazing people, but obviously there was still some privilege that enabled me to you know, be int a yacht club in the first place and things like that. So I definitely recognize that that, and then I also recognize I suppose that, yeah, anything's possible, but it's more the question of, but are you willing to actually sacrifice what it'll take to get there? Yeah, And like a lot of the time that answers no. And that's fair because you know so, I definitely still still believe in that. It's not to say it's easy, that's for sure. It is pretty extraordinary what we can do well. You certainly don't shy away from a challenge. But it is interesting then that you mentioned the financial side of things, because I also think that's something that we skate over a lot when we're talking about big dreams and big life pivots. Can you talk a bit about the financial side of becoming an author and doing the speaking gigs. Is it financially viable? Because I know that a lot of the time writing books seems a lot more lucrative than perhaps it is. How does the money side work out for you? Yeah? I mean the first book around the voyage was incredible because the publisher was as much a sponsor of the voyage than any So that was an amazing and probably quite a unique experience in that regard. But then, yeah, my second book, novel for young adults, was definitely a process of realizing, Wow, this is an amazing thing to do, but it's not actually a steady, solid career. Yeah. Yeah, Luckily it's a career that I enjoy, but it's obviously also some stability, and that's a wonderful thing to pay boat bills. Yeah, and you're juggling so many different things, so I mean it's wonderful, as you said, the diversity that you have. How do you juggle it energy wise or chaotically? And this is probably an area of life I should I've just like, how are you not chronically burnt out from all the things that you're doing? And have you learnt through from such a young age taking on so many high profile, big things. How do you self manage if you do it all? Yeah? Because I certainly don't thinking about what my sister or like mum or something would I would say, you hear me talking about this, because I think they often you know, and I suppose they see the side to me where I turn up back at their place in it in a bit of a heape, you know, you know where you've given every last bit of energy and you're kind of a mess. So that's probably, yeah, an area for improvement in terms of not just kind of giving it everything and then kind of falling apart. Yeah, the crash and burn. I mean, it's it's effective. Sometimes you get a lot done and right that adrenaline is an amazing thing. Was also kind of a coping strategy for a while too, so kind of had its place. But that's probably something I should spend some more time working on and have a little bit too, I think in terms of yeah, wellness, etc. Well, just as a last question to finish up, there's a saying that I always come back to, which is the idea that we can only ever connect the dots looking back, and that they do often connect in such a beautiful, sometimes unexpected way when you look back at all the various experiences that you've had and are still having. I think another thing about pivoting is that the things you do in life often set you up really well for the things that you do next, even if they don't relate. Is there anything from sailing that you've acquired or actually from any of your experiences that make you really great at what you do? Now? Maybe, I mean there is obviously something and the kind of sheer resilience like getting going actually setbacks, that's they're great. Yeah, I think you got really good at those really young. Yeah. Just remember that little debacle with the ship where yeah, like that's the ultimate example of your mask was crushed in half before you started. We are real bad, like sort of global media storm situation, real grim, but it's pretty incredible to look back on that and go, you got through that. Yeah, you can get through this as well. Yeah, So things you survive can be quite powerful. But yeah, there's loads of things that have been transferable. Like, you know, it was an uncle who taught me the idea of a grunt chart and project management as this fifteen year old, and like, obviously that's just kind of so fundamental to work in things these days. So there are there's concepts that have been really powerful and useful throughout for me. Yeah, and then some of those mental fools, And I think for me that probably the thing that's remained consistently useful is kind of this weird ability to sort of simplify a lot of the time, which probably is in large part thanks to being quite dyslexic. That's something I've always really needed to do, and it actually it's proved to be what I feel like is probably the thing I bring most useful to work these days. In this really complex environment and fast moving world. I've just got to simplify things, and turns out a lot of other people want that to so it's octically really useful. Well that is, I mean, an incredibly useful piece of advice to finish on because I think, as I said before, we over complicate things and overthink things all the time so often get in our own way, and to be able to simplify things is truly a valuable, invaluable, actually life skill, just as you are a truly extraordinary walking life skill and incredible person. So thank you so much for sharing so generously today. It's been wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Pivot Club. There'll be a new app dropping next week, so make sure you hit follow ever you're listening so you don't miss it. And if you love the show, Please tell a friend or give it a rating and a review in your podcast app. It means the world, and it really is the best way to help us spread the word. This episode of Pivot Club was produced by Sally Best with audio production by Jacob Brownd. The executive producer is Courtney Ammenhauser. See you next time.
