Dr. McGee, John Calvin and the Apostle Paul Discuss Ongoing Sovereignty Theology

1
00:00:02,068 --> 00:00:05,071
Hey everyone,
welcome to this virtual podcast.

2
00:00:05,238 --> 00:00:08,808
I am your host, Mike Mathis,
and I'm thrilled to be joined

3
00:00:08,808 --> 00:00:12,779
by some incredible voices
from across history to talk about ongoing

4
00:00:12,779 --> 00:00:16,116
sovereignty theology through the amazing
technology of grok three.

5
00:00:16,683 --> 00:00:18,151
With me are doctor J.

6
00:00:18,151 --> 00:00:21,287
Vernon McGee, John Calvin,
and the Apostle Paul.

7
00:00:21,855 --> 00:00:26,826
Guys, thanks for being here or well,
for letting me imagine you here today.

8
00:00:26,826 --> 00:00:31,097
We're exploring this idea that God's
sovereignty is a living, ongoing process,

9
00:00:31,498 --> 00:00:34,200
not just a fixed plan set before time.

10
00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,237
Doctor McGee, you've preached on God's
sovereignty a lot.

11
00:00:37,704 --> 00:00:39,639
What's your first take on this?

12
00:00:39,639 --> 00:00:42,642
Well, Mike,
and glad to be here with you folks.

13
00:00:42,742 --> 00:00:45,745
You know,
I've always said the Bible is clear.

14
00:00:45,979 --> 00:00:47,580
God's in control of everything.

15
00:00:47,580 --> 00:00:50,316
Psalm 103 19.

16
00:00:50,316 --> 00:00:53,219
The Lord has prepared his throne
in the heavens.

17
00:00:53,219 --> 00:00:56,289
And his kingdom rulers,
over all this ongoing

18
00:00:56,289 --> 00:00:59,292
sovereignty idea you're talking about,
it's got a ring of truth.

19
00:00:59,292 --> 00:01:02,295
If it means God's actively ruling
right now,

20
00:01:02,429 --> 00:01:05,365
not just sitting back
after winding up the clock.

21
00:01:05,365 --> 00:01:08,701
But I'd want to know,
does it leave room for God's eternal plan?

22
00:01:09,302 --> 00:01:12,806
I mean, Ephesians chapter one, verse 11

23
00:01:13,106 --> 00:01:16,443
says, he work at all things
after the Council, his own will.

24
00:01:17,043 --> 00:01:20,080
How do you square that with his ongoing
business?

25
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,715
Allow me to weigh in, Michael.

26
00:01:22,715 --> 00:01:26,820
I'm John Calvin,
and I must say this concept intrigues me.

27
00:01:27,187 --> 00:01:29,456
Yet it raises questions

28
00:01:29,456 --> 00:01:33,159
in my institute roots, I argued
that God's providence governs all events.

29
00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:37,597
Nothing occurs by chance, for
his decree is eternal and unchangeable.

30
00:01:38,198 --> 00:01:41,534
If this ongoing sovereignty suggests
that God's rule

31
00:01:41,534 --> 00:01:45,572
unfolds dynamically,
as you say, with human participation,

32
00:01:46,106 --> 00:01:49,776
does it not risk implying
that God's will is contingent upon man?

33
00:01:50,410 --> 00:01:54,314
That would be a perilous departure from
the divine majesty I see in Scripture,

34
00:01:54,514 --> 00:01:59,486
such as Romans chapter nine, verse 21,
where the potter has power over the clay.

35
00:02:00,053 --> 00:02:02,021
Greetings, brothers.

36
00:02:02,021 --> 00:02:04,357
I am Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus.

37
00:02:04,357 --> 00:02:05,859
By the will of God,

38
00:02:05,859 --> 00:02:08,862
I rejoice to hear you wrestling
with the sovereignty of our Lord.

39
00:02:09,129 --> 00:02:13,266
Mike, this ongoing theology you speak of,
I see echoes of it in my own words

40
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,803
in Philippians chapter two, verse
12 to 13,

41
00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:21,040
I wrote, work out your own salvation
with fear and trembling, for

42
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,178
it is God who works in you both to will
and to work for his good pleasure.

43
00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:29,649
God's sovereignty is active, alive in us,
not merely a decree from afar.

44
00:02:30,250 --> 00:02:33,453
Yet I also proclaimed in Ephesians
chapter one, verse four,

45
00:02:33,887 --> 00:02:36,923
that he chose us in him
before the foundation of the world.

46
00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:39,559
How does your view hold these together?

47
00:02:39,559 --> 00:02:41,494
Great points, all of you.

48
00:02:41,494 --> 00:02:44,497
Let me clarify what I mean
by ongoing sovereignty theology,

49
00:02:44,764 --> 00:02:46,966
based on some thinking I've been doing.

50
00:02:46,966 --> 00:02:49,969
It's not
that God's will changes or depends on us,

51
00:02:50,270 --> 00:02:53,973
but that his sovereignty is expressed
dynamically, like a story unfolding.

52
00:02:54,574 --> 00:02:56,342
God's ultimate purpose is set.

53
00:02:56,342 --> 00:02:59,846
But the details, the how of it involve
real time interaction with us.

54
00:03:00,413 --> 00:03:03,416
Think of it like a master artist
painting a masterpiece.

55
00:03:03,650 --> 00:03:07,654
The final image is in his mind, but
each brushstroke happens in the moment.

56
00:03:08,221 --> 00:03:11,691
Doctor McGee, does that fit with your view
of God working all things out?

57
00:03:13,359 --> 00:03:14,661
I like that picture.

58
00:03:14,661 --> 00:03:16,229
Made the master artist.

59
00:03:16,229 --> 00:03:18,932
It's folks and it kind of fits.

60
00:03:18,932 --> 00:03:21,668
You're saying
God's got the endgame settled.

61
00:03:21,668 --> 00:03:24,571
But he's working it out day by day
with us in the mix.

62
00:03:24,571 --> 00:03:27,574
I can see that in Romans chapter
eight verse 28.

63
00:03:27,774 --> 00:03:31,277
All things work together for good to them
that love God.

64
00:03:31,477 --> 00:03:33,646
It's active, not just a blueprint.

65
00:03:33,646 --> 00:03:37,784
Collecting dust I'd be careful not to make
it sound like God's in provision.

66
00:03:37,850 --> 00:03:39,586
He's not surprised by anything.

67
00:03:39,586 --> 00:03:41,487
He's omniscient after all.

68
00:03:41,487 --> 00:03:44,490
I concur with Doctor McGee on God's
omniscience.

69
00:03:44,891 --> 00:03:47,894
Yet, Michael,
your analogy troubles me somewhat.

70
00:03:47,994 --> 00:03:52,265
A painter may adjust his strokes,
but God's decree is perfect from eternity.

71
00:03:52,865 --> 00:03:56,869
If this ongoing aspect means his
sovereignty engages with human freedom,

72
00:03:57,203 --> 00:04:00,840
I might see it as his ordained means
to his ordained ends, provided

73
00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:04,944
we affirm, as I did, that even
our wills are under his governance.

74
00:04:05,578 --> 00:04:08,982
In book three of my institutes,
I wrote that God's providence

75
00:04:08,982 --> 00:04:12,485
directs all things, even the actions
of the wicked, to his glory.

76
00:04:13,086 --> 00:04:17,290
Could your theology be a way of describing
this divine orchestration?

77
00:04:17,857 --> 00:04:21,394
Yes, John and Mike, I think you're both
touching on something vital.

78
00:04:22,061 --> 00:04:25,932
When I wrote in First Corinthians chapter
three, verse nine that we are God's

79
00:04:25,932 --> 00:04:29,969
fellow workers, I meant were part of his
ongoing work in the world.

80
00:04:30,570 --> 00:04:32,238
His sovereignty isn't a cold machine.

81
00:04:32,238 --> 00:04:34,173
It's personal, relational.

82
00:04:34,173 --> 00:04:38,611
In Romans chapter 11, verse 33 to 36,
I marveled at the depth of his wisdom

83
00:04:39,212 --> 00:04:42,582
from him and through him, and to him
are all things.

84
00:04:43,216 --> 00:04:46,919
This ongoing idea might just be
how we experience his eternal purpose

85
00:04:46,919 --> 00:04:50,323
in time, as he draws
all nations to himself through the gospel.

86
00:04:50,890 --> 00:04:53,393
I love that, Paul. Relational sovereignty.

87
00:04:53,393 --> 00:04:54,761
That's the heart of it.

88
00:04:54,761 --> 00:04:58,564
It's not about God being indecisive
or us running the show.

89
00:04:58,831 --> 00:05:02,902
It's about his active presence
with us shaping history as we go.

90
00:05:03,469 --> 00:05:06,806
Doctor McGee, you've talked about God's
sovereignty in everyday life.

91
00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,409
Does this feel like a practical way
to see it?

92
00:05:09,409 --> 00:05:13,880
You know, that night I've always said
God's not just up there in the clouds.

93
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:15,214
He's down here with us.

94
00:05:15,214 --> 00:05:17,083
If ongoing sovereignty means

95
00:05:17,083 --> 00:05:20,887
he's rulership is alive and kicking
in our daily walk, I'm all for it.

96
00:05:21,487 --> 00:05:24,490
Take Daniel chapter four, verse 35.

97
00:05:24,490 --> 00:05:27,493
He do us according to his will,
in the army of heaven,

98
00:05:27,727 --> 00:05:29,929
and among the inhabitants of the earth.

99
00:05:29,929 --> 00:05:31,331
That's not static.

100
00:05:31,331 --> 00:05:34,334
It's God moving and shaking things
right now.

101
00:05:34,334 --> 00:05:37,770
I remain cautious, yet
I see merit in this emphasis on

102
00:05:37,770 --> 00:05:42,342
God's living rule, provided
we do not diminish his eternal decree.

103
00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:46,145
I could interpret this as the outworking
of his providence in time.

104
00:05:46,713 --> 00:05:50,883
Still, I insist human participate in
must be subordinate to his will.

105
00:05:51,250 --> 00:05:56,689
As I argued in my commentary on Psalm
115 three, Our God is in the heavens.

106
00:05:57,023 --> 00:05:59,792
He hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

107
00:05:59,792 --> 00:06:04,230
And I'd add, brothers, that this ongoing
sovereignty shines brightest in Christ.

108
00:06:04,831 --> 00:06:07,467
Colossians chapter one, verse 17 says,

109
00:06:07,467 --> 00:06:11,070
he is before all things,
and in him all things hold together.

110
00:06:11,604 --> 00:06:14,674
His reign is active
now, sustaining and redeeming creation.

111
00:06:15,308 --> 00:06:18,945
Mike, your theology seems to celebrate
that ongoing victory, am I right?

112
00:06:19,545 --> 00:06:21,214
Exactly, Paul.

113
00:06:21,214 --> 00:06:24,984
It's about Christ's reign unfolding
not just in the future, but today.

114
00:06:25,585 --> 00:06:27,954
Okay, let's move on to the next topic.

115
00:06:27,954 --> 00:06:30,757
So let's wrap up after McGee.

116
00:06:30,757 --> 00:06:34,227
Final thought I'd say it's a fresh way
to see an old truth.

117
00:06:34,227 --> 00:06:36,996
God's run on the show,
and we're in it with him.

118
00:06:36,996 --> 00:06:38,998
Just keep it biblical, Mike.

119
00:06:38,998 --> 00:06:41,000
I'd urge precision.

120
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,302
God's sovereignty is eternal.

121
00:06:43,302 --> 00:06:45,972
But if ongoing means
his active governance,

122
00:06:45,972 --> 00:06:48,975
I can assent so long as his decree
stands firm.

123
00:06:49,242 --> 00:06:50,543
I rejoice in this.

124
00:06:50,543 --> 00:06:53,546
God's sovereignty is a mystery we live in,
not just ponder.

125
00:06:54,013 --> 00:06:56,416
To him be glory forever.

126
00:06:56,416 --> 00:06:57,984
Thanks everyone.

127
00:06:57,984 --> 00:06:59,619
This has been amazing.

128
00:06:59,619 --> 00:07:02,021
Now let's discuss
how this theological position

129
00:07:02,021 --> 00:07:04,457
works out in the context of prayer.

130
00:07:04,457 --> 00:07:07,360
Glad to make prayers
and my favorite subjects.

131
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,363
It's just talking to the Lord,
plain and simple.

132
00:07:10,663 --> 00:07:15,334
Now, if this ongoing sovereignty means God
is actively working in the world right

133
00:07:15,334 --> 00:07:20,139
now, not just following some dusty old
script, then prayer gets real exciting.

134
00:07:20,206 --> 00:07:22,375
It's like James chapter five verse 16

135
00:07:22,375 --> 00:07:26,312
says the effectual fervent prayer
of a righteous man availeth much.

136
00:07:26,579 --> 00:07:30,616
I've always taught that prayer is powerful
because that's listening and moving.

137
00:07:30,750 --> 00:07:35,087
This theology of yours might say he's
not just hearing us, but actually

138
00:07:35,087 --> 00:07:39,892
responding in the moment like he did
with Elijah calling down fire from heaven.

139
00:07:40,460 --> 00:07:41,894
What do you think, Mike?

140
00:07:41,894 --> 00:07:43,729
I love that doctor McGee.

141
00:07:43,729 --> 00:07:45,832
That's exactly what I'm getting at.

142
00:07:45,832 --> 00:07:49,202
If God's sovereignty is unfolding
dynamically, prayer isn't just us

143
00:07:49,202 --> 00:07:51,137
reciting requests to a fixed plan.

144
00:07:51,137 --> 00:07:53,806
It's us
joining him in what he's doing right now.

145
00:07:53,806 --> 00:07:55,808
It's a real conversation.

146
00:07:55,808 --> 00:07:58,110
You've written about prayer and God's
providence.

147
00:07:58,110 --> 00:08:00,980
How do you see this fitting in, Michael?

148
00:08:00,980 --> 00:08:03,916
I approach this with care, as always

149
00:08:03,916 --> 00:08:06,919
in my institute's book three, chapter 20.

150
00:08:06,986 --> 00:08:10,022
I teach that prayer is ordained
by God as a means

151
00:08:10,022 --> 00:08:13,025
whereby we receive what he has decreed
to give us.

152
00:08:13,192 --> 00:08:14,827
God's sovereignty is eternal.

153
00:08:14,827 --> 00:08:16,529
His will is immutable.

154
00:08:16,529 --> 00:08:19,432
As I see in Matthew chapter six,
verse ten.

155
00:08:19,432 --> 00:08:20,967
Thy will be done.

156
00:08:20,967 --> 00:08:23,936
Yet this ongoing notion you propose,

157
00:08:23,936 --> 00:08:27,707
if it means his providence engages us in
time, could align with my view.

158
00:08:28,307 --> 00:08:31,310
Prayer does not change God's mind, for
he is unchanging.

159
00:08:31,644 --> 00:08:35,414
Rather, it changes us
and brings us into his active governance.

160
00:08:36,015 --> 00:08:40,486
When we pray, we participate
in his sovereign will as he has appointed.

161
00:08:41,087 --> 00:08:44,724
But I caution we must not imagine
our prayers dictate to him.

162
00:08:45,324 --> 00:08:48,261
Brothers,
I greet you again in Christ's name.

163
00:08:48,261 --> 00:08:50,663
Mike, this question stirs my heart.

164
00:08:50,663 --> 00:08:53,399
When I wrote in Philippians chapter
four, verse six,

165
00:08:53,399 --> 00:08:56,702
do not be anxious about anything,
but in everything by prayer

166
00:08:56,702 --> 00:09:00,840
and supplication, with thanksgiving,
let your requests be made known to God.

167
00:09:01,507 --> 00:09:04,510
I saw prayer as a living connection
to the sovereign Lord.

168
00:09:04,844 --> 00:09:06,612
This ongoing sovereignty you speak of.

169
00:09:06,612 --> 00:09:10,383
It reminds me of how I urge the churches
to pray without ceasing.

170
00:09:10,416 --> 00:09:13,419
First
Thessalonians chapter five, verse 17.

171
00:09:13,653 --> 00:09:16,188
If God's rule is active and relational,

172
00:09:16,188 --> 00:09:19,492
then prayers are cried to him
in the midst of his work he hears.

173
00:09:19,926 --> 00:09:22,929
He acts and he draws us into his purposes.

174
00:09:23,396 --> 00:09:25,865
Think of acts 12 when the church prayed

175
00:09:25,865 --> 00:09:28,668
and God sent an angel to free
Peter from prison.

176
00:09:28,668 --> 00:09:30,069
That was no static plan.

177
00:09:30,069 --> 00:09:32,271
It was God moving with his people.

178
00:09:32,271 --> 00:09:34,440
Paul, that's a perfect example.

179
00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,976
Peter's release
feels like God responding in real time,

180
00:09:36,976 --> 00:09:39,779
weaving the church's
prayers into his sovereign action.

181
00:09:39,779 --> 00:09:43,583
I think ongoing sovereignty theology
suggests prayer is a two way street.

182
00:09:43,583 --> 00:09:47,353
God invites us to ask,
and he engages with us as we do.

183
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,124
Doctor McGee, does that resonate
with how you see prayer in everyday life?

184
00:09:52,725 --> 00:09:55,161
You bet it does, Mike.

185
00:09:55,161 --> 00:09:57,663
I've always said prayers. Practical.

186
00:09:57,663 --> 00:10:00,066
It's not just theology. It's living.

187
00:10:00,066 --> 00:10:03,436
That story of Peter's Abubakar
didn't just sit back.

188
00:10:03,636 --> 00:10:05,705
He heard the church and move.

189
00:10:05,705 --> 00:10:07,940
Your idea makes prayer
feel like a partnership.

190
00:10:09,041 --> 00:10:12,044
We talk, God listens and he works
it out his way.

191
00:10:12,411 --> 00:10:14,847
I think our nephew, chapter seven, verse

192
00:10:14,847 --> 00:10:17,984
seven and asked,
and it shall be given you.

193
00:10:18,584 --> 00:10:21,387
It's active now.

194
00:10:21,387 --> 00:10:23,656
I'd still say God's got the final say.

195
00:10:23,656 --> 00:10:25,424
He's not our errand boy.

196
00:10:25,424 --> 00:10:30,396
But this ongoing angle sure makes prayer
a lively thing, not just a formality.

197
00:10:30,930 --> 00:10:33,466
I must interject, doctor McGee.

198
00:10:33,466 --> 00:10:36,435
Partnership is a bold word,
and I hesitate that

199
00:10:36,669 --> 00:10:39,105
God's sovereignty bows to no man.

200
00:10:39,105 --> 00:10:43,275
Yet I grant this scripture shows prayer
as a means of his active rule.

201
00:10:43,876 --> 00:10:46,379
Consider Moses in Exodus 32,

202
00:10:46,379 --> 00:10:49,382
pleading for Israel after the golden Calf.

203
00:10:49,382 --> 00:10:52,385
God relented,
or so it seems in human terms.

204
00:10:52,418 --> 00:10:56,022
But I'd argue his relenting
was part of his eternal purpose.

205
00:10:56,555 --> 00:10:59,558
Using Moses prayer to manifest his mercy.

206
00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:03,262
If your ongoing sovereignty,
Michael, means God

207
00:11:03,262 --> 00:11:06,265
ordains our prayers
as instruments of his will.

208
00:11:06,332 --> 00:11:10,369
I can find common ground,
but the initiative remains his alone.

209
00:11:10,970 --> 00:11:13,005
John, I see your point.

210
00:11:13,005 --> 00:11:14,340
And yet I'd add this.

211
00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:17,276
In Christ we brought near to God's throne.

212
00:11:17,276 --> 00:11:20,279
Hebrews chapter four verse 16 says,

213
00:11:20,980 --> 00:11:24,483
let us then with confidence,
draw near to the throne of grace.

214
00:11:25,084 --> 00:11:25,785
Prayer.

215
00:11:25,785 --> 00:11:29,622
Under this ongoing
reign isn't just a duty, it's a privilege.

216
00:11:30,222 --> 00:11:32,958
Mike,
your theology seems to say God delights

217
00:11:32,958 --> 00:11:35,961
in our prayers,
weaving them into his living story.

218
00:11:36,195 --> 00:11:40,366
In my own life, when I was shipwrecked
or jailed, I prayed and God moved.

219
00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:43,369
Sometimes with miracles,
sometimes with strength to endure

220
00:11:43,836 --> 00:11:46,539
it as if he's sovereignly present,
not distant.

221
00:11:46,539 --> 00:11:49,308
That's beautiful, Paul,
God sovereignly present.

222
00:11:49,308 --> 00:11:51,243
I think that's the key shift here.

223
00:11:51,243 --> 00:11:54,246
Prayer is not about twisting God's arm
or just checking a box.

224
00:11:54,346 --> 00:11:56,716
It's about stepping into his ongoing work.

225
00:11:56,716 --> 00:12:00,786
If his sovereignty unfolds with us, then
when we pray, we're not outside the plan.

226
00:12:00,786 --> 00:12:02,054
We're part of it.

227
00:12:02,054 --> 00:12:05,124
John, does that ease your concern
about human initiative?

228
00:12:05,691 --> 00:12:06,192
Somewhat.

229
00:12:06,192 --> 00:12:07,326
To Michael,

230
00:12:07,326 --> 00:12:11,430
if you mean our prayers are decreed
by God as the means to his ends, I ascend.

231
00:12:11,997 --> 00:12:15,735
But I still guard against any hint
that God's will adjusts to ours.

232
00:12:16,268 --> 00:12:18,070
His sovereignty is the river.

233
00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:21,073
Our prayers are the current within it,
not the source.

234
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,143
Psalm 135 six whatsoever

235
00:12:24,143 --> 00:12:27,146
the Lord pleased did,
he remains my anchor.

236
00:12:27,179 --> 00:12:30,449
I reckon we're all saying something
similar, just with different accents.

237
00:12:31,016 --> 00:12:34,520
Might this ongoing sovereignty
makes prayer a daily adventure?

238
00:12:34,553 --> 00:12:37,556
God's running the show,
but he's got us on stage with him.

239
00:12:37,823 --> 00:12:41,727
I tell folks, pray like it matters
because it does.

240
00:12:42,128 --> 00:12:44,396
And this theology backs that.

241
00:12:44,396 --> 00:12:48,501
Yes. And I'd say pray with faith,
knowing the spirit intercedes for us.

242
00:12:48,501 --> 00:12:51,137
Romans chapter eight, verse 26.

243
00:12:51,137 --> 00:12:53,873
God's sovereignty
isn't a wall between us and him.

244
00:12:53,873 --> 00:12:56,242
It's the bridge we cross in prayer.

245
00:12:56,242 --> 00:12:58,277
I love that imagery, guys.

246
00:12:58,277 --> 00:13:02,581
So prayer in ongoing sovereignty
theology becomes a dynamic, relational act

247
00:13:02,581 --> 00:13:06,352
as joining God's active rule,
trusting he's weaving it all together.

248
00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:08,721
Now let's dig into how this perspective

249
00:13:08,721 --> 00:13:11,690
might influence
our understanding of God's omniscience.

250
00:13:11,724 --> 00:13:14,627
If God's sovereignty
is unfolding dynamically with us,

251
00:13:14,627 --> 00:13:17,062
what does that mean for his ongoing
nature?

252
00:13:17,062 --> 00:13:20,332
Doctor McGee, you have preached on
God's attributes a lot.

253
00:13:20,533 --> 00:13:22,101
Kick us off here.

254
00:13:22,101 --> 00:13:22,968
Absolutely.

255
00:13:22,968 --> 00:13:26,172
Like God's omniscience,
his knowing everything.

256
00:13:26,172 --> 00:13:27,807
Well, that's a bedrock truth.

257
00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:32,411
Psalm 147 five says, Christ is our Lord
and of great power.

258
00:13:32,611 --> 00:13:34,580
His understanding is infinite.

259
00:13:34,580 --> 00:13:38,584
Now, this ongoing sovereignty idea
you're tossing around,

260
00:13:38,584 --> 00:13:41,587
if it's saying God's
working things out in real time with us

261
00:13:41,887 --> 00:13:44,690
and still say he knows every move
before we make it.

262
00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:47,193
Take Isaiah chapter 46,

263
00:13:47,193 --> 00:13:50,262
verse ten,
declaring the end from the beginning

264
00:13:50,296 --> 00:13:53,332
and from ancient times
the things that are not yet done.

265
00:13:53,899 --> 00:13:56,902
To me is omniscience
means he's never caught off guard,

266
00:13:57,436 --> 00:14:01,073
even if he's painting that masterpiece
stroke by stroke, like you said.

267
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:02,775
How do you see it playing out?

268
00:14:02,775 --> 00:14:05,711
My good question, doctor McGee.

269
00:14:05,711 --> 00:14:08,214
I think ongoing sovereignty
theology doesn't challenge

270
00:14:08,214 --> 00:14:11,217
God's omniscience,
but reframes how we experience it.

271
00:14:11,383 --> 00:14:14,820
If God's sovereignty is a living process,
his all knowing nature isn't

272
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:16,755
just about foreseeing a static script.

273
00:14:16,755 --> 00:14:18,524
It's about knowing every possibility,

274
00:14:18,524 --> 00:14:21,527
every choice,
and weaving it perfectly into his purpose.

275
00:14:21,994 --> 00:14:23,095
It's like he's omniscient,

276
00:14:23,095 --> 00:14:26,398
not just of what will happen,
but of how he'll shape it as it unfolds.

277
00:14:26,999 --> 00:14:30,002
John, you've wrestled with God's
knowledge in your writings.

278
00:14:30,069 --> 00:14:31,303
What's your take?

279
00:14:31,303 --> 00:14:34,306
Michael
I approach this with my usual precision

280
00:14:34,406 --> 00:14:37,610
in my institute's book II, chapter 16.

281
00:14:38,143 --> 00:14:40,913
I affirm
that God's omniscience is absolute.

282
00:14:40,913 --> 00:14:45,618
He comprehends all things past, present,
and future in one eternal act

283
00:14:45,618 --> 00:14:48,988
of knowing Scripture, such as Psalm

284
00:14:48,988 --> 00:14:52,858
139 for before a word is on my tongue.

285
00:14:53,158 --> 00:14:54,493
You know it completely.

286
00:14:54,493 --> 00:14:58,163
Oh Lord leaves
no doubt your ongoing sovereignty.

287
00:14:58,764 --> 00:15:01,433
If it implies God's knowledge
adapts or evolves

288
00:15:01,433 --> 00:15:04,436
with events,
would undermine his perfection.

289
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:08,874
I'd argue his omniscience encompasses
every detail of this unfolding

290
00:15:08,874 --> 00:15:12,811
you describe, for his decree
includes all means and ends.

291
00:15:13,445 --> 00:15:16,782
If he engages dynamically, as you say,
it is

292
00:15:16,782 --> 00:15:19,018
because he has eternally known
and willed it.

293
00:15:19,018 --> 00:15:23,222
So does your theology
preserve this grace to you all?

294
00:15:24,023 --> 00:15:26,959
Mike, this is a rich question.

295
00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:31,597
When I wrote in Romans chapter 11,
verse 33, oh, the depth of the riches

296
00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:35,501
and wisdom and knowledge of God,
how unsearchable are his judgments!

297
00:15:35,534 --> 00:15:38,137
I marveled at his omniscience.

298
00:15:38,137 --> 00:15:41,874
Your ongoing sovereignty resonates
with how I saw God's knowledge at work.

299
00:15:41,874 --> 00:15:43,809
Active, not detached.

300
00:15:43,809 --> 00:15:47,079
In acts chapter 17, verse 26 to 27,

301
00:15:47,746 --> 00:15:50,683
I said, God determined allotted periods
and the boundaries

302
00:15:50,683 --> 00:15:54,019
of their dwelling place,
that they should seek God.

303
00:15:54,753 --> 00:15:58,524
He knows every step we take, yet he's
present, guiding history toward his glory.

304
00:15:59,124 --> 00:16:02,127
I'd say his omniscience is
what makes this ongoing aspect possible.

305
00:16:02,127 --> 00:16:05,130
He knows all
so he can work all things with us in time.

306
00:16:05,497 --> 00:16:07,066
What do you think, Mike?

307
00:16:07,066 --> 00:16:08,434
I love that, Paul.

308
00:16:08,434 --> 00:16:09,635
It's like God's omniscience

309
00:16:09,635 --> 00:16:12,638
is the foundation
that lets ongoing sovereignty breathe.

310
00:16:12,771 --> 00:16:16,575
I'm not saying God's knowledge changes or
that he's figuring things out as he goes.

311
00:16:17,176 --> 00:16:20,346
Instead, it's that his all knowing
nature is so vast

312
00:16:20,346 --> 00:16:23,415
he can hold every potential outcome
and still orchestrate it

313
00:16:23,415 --> 00:16:25,084
perfectly in the moment.

314
00:16:25,084 --> 00:16:27,753
Think of it like a chess grandmaster
who knows every possible

315
00:16:27,753 --> 00:16:28,854
move on the board.

316
00:16:28,854 --> 00:16:32,725
Not just the one that happens,
but all the ones that could and wins

317
00:16:32,725 --> 00:16:33,959
every time.

318
00:16:33,959 --> 00:16:37,229
Doctor McGee, does that
keep God's omniscience intact for you?

319
00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:38,664
Oh, it sure does.

320
00:16:38,664 --> 00:16:41,667
And like that chess grandmaster
picture is a good one.

321
00:16:41,667 --> 00:16:43,669
Folks can grab hold of that.

322
00:16:43,669 --> 00:16:46,672
God's not sitting there scratching
his head, wondering what we'll do next.

323
00:16:47,206 --> 00:16:48,073
He knows it all.

324
00:16:48,073 --> 00:16:51,043
Every checkmate, every pawn move.

325
00:16:51,243 --> 00:16:54,246
I think of one
John chapter three, verse 20.

326
00:16:54,513 --> 00:16:57,616
God is greater than our heart and knoweth
all things.

327
00:16:58,183 --> 00:17:01,387
Your ongoing sovereignty just makes it
lively.

328
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:06,225
He's using that infinite knowledge to work
with us right now, not us right now.

329
00:17:06,525 --> 00:17:08,060
He's already seen.

330
00:17:08,060 --> 00:17:10,562
It's practical and it keeps him big.

331
00:17:10,562 --> 00:17:13,365
I find your analogy intriguing, Michael.

332
00:17:13,365 --> 00:17:15,467
Yet I remain vigilant.

333
00:17:15,467 --> 00:17:18,470
A chess master implies strategy
within a fixed game.

334
00:17:18,704 --> 00:17:20,906
But God's omniscience transcends
even that.

335
00:17:20,906 --> 00:17:23,876
He authored the board, the pieces,
and the rules.

336
00:17:23,876 --> 00:17:27,246
If I'm going, sovereignty means he employs
his eternal knowledge

337
00:17:27,246 --> 00:17:29,782
in time, engaging with our actions.

338
00:17:29,782 --> 00:17:34,086
I can accept it, provided
we affirm, as I did in my commentary

339
00:17:34,086 --> 00:17:38,190
on Hebrews chapter four, verse 13,
that all things are naked

340
00:17:38,190 --> 00:17:42,895
and opened unto the eyes of him
with whom we have to do his dynamic rule

341
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:46,065
must flow from his unchanging awareness,
not react to it.

342
00:17:46,665 --> 00:17:48,934
Does this align with your intent?

343
00:17:48,934 --> 00:17:53,439
Yes. John and Mike, I build on that
in Ephesians chapter three, verse ten.

344
00:17:53,839 --> 00:17:56,708
I wrote that God's
wisdom is made known through the church

345
00:17:56,708 --> 00:17:59,711
to the rulers and authorities
in the heavenly places.

346
00:18:00,245 --> 00:18:03,248
His omniscience isn't just a fact,
it's a power at work in us.

347
00:18:03,749 --> 00:18:06,585
This ongoing view might mean
he knows not only what we'll do,

348
00:18:06,585 --> 00:18:09,655
but how he'll turn even our stumbles
like my thorn in the flesh.

349
00:18:10,255 --> 00:18:12,658
Second Corinthians chapter 12, verse
seven.

350
00:18:12,658 --> 00:18:14,426
Into his triumph.

351
00:18:14,426 --> 00:18:17,429
It's as if his knowledge is alive,
sustaining every moment.

352
00:18:17,796 --> 00:18:19,465
Does that fit your vision, Mike?

353
00:18:19,465 --> 00:18:20,432
That's exactly it.

354
00:18:20,432 --> 00:18:23,302
God's omniscience is alive, not static.

355
00:18:23,302 --> 00:18:25,804
It's not that he's learning or reacting.

356
00:18:25,804 --> 00:18:28,640
It's that his infinite knowledge embraces
every moment,

357
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,643
every choice, and shapes
it all toward his goal.

358
00:18:31,977 --> 00:18:35,013
John, I think this keeps
his eternal awareness intact.

359
00:18:35,614 --> 00:18:38,817
It's just that we see it playing out
dynamically from our side of eternity.

360
00:18:39,418 --> 00:18:40,953
Doctor McGee,

361
00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:44,123
does this make God's omniscience
feel more relatable in everyday faith?

362
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:46,091
You bet. Mike.

363
00:18:46,091 --> 00:18:50,762
It's like God's omniscience ain't just
a high falutin idea for theologians.

364
00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:55,234
It's in knowing me
right down to my coffee this morning.

365
00:18:55,834 --> 00:18:59,571
If ongoing sovereignty says he's
using that knowledge to guide me today,

366
00:19:00,572 --> 00:19:01,039
not just

367
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:04,409
a million years
ago, it makes me want to trust him more.

368
00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:07,880
Proverbs chapter 15, verse three.

369
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,482
The eyes of the Lord are in every place
feels like

370
00:19:10,482 --> 00:19:13,485
he's watching and working all at once.

371
00:19:13,719 --> 00:19:16,021
I'll concede this much, Michael.

372
00:19:16,021 --> 00:19:18,924
Your emphasis on God's living knowledge,
if grounded

373
00:19:18,924 --> 00:19:22,361
in his eternal decree, enhances
our awe of him.

374
00:19:22,895 --> 00:19:26,165
His omniscience is not diminished,
but magnified when we see it

375
00:19:26,165 --> 00:19:28,333
actively upholding all things.

376
00:19:28,333 --> 00:19:31,670
As Colossians chapter one, verse
17 declares of Christ

377
00:19:32,237 --> 00:19:34,706
till I anchor it in his immutability.

378
00:19:34,706 --> 00:19:37,709
He knows because he wills, not
because he waits.

379
00:19:38,043 --> 00:19:40,212
And I'd end with praise, brothers.

380
00:19:40,212 --> 00:19:43,015
God's omniscience in this ongoing
reign means he knows us

381
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:46,018
intimately, perfectly, and still loves us.

382
00:19:46,351 --> 00:19:48,754
Romans chapter eight, verse 29.

383
00:19:48,754 --> 00:19:52,024
Those whom he fought knew
he also predestined ties his knowledge

384
00:19:52,024 --> 00:19:53,525
to his purpose.

385
00:19:53,525 --> 00:19:56,528
Mike, your theology seems to make
that personal, not abstract.

386
00:19:57,062 --> 00:19:59,831
We've often assumed the stream
of existence kicked off with creation,

387
00:19:59,831 --> 00:20:00,299
like times.

388
00:20:00,299 --> 00:20:03,302
This cosmic clock
that started taking a Genesis one.

389
00:20:03,669 --> 00:20:06,538
But Scripture hints
God was acting before creation.

390
00:20:06,538 --> 00:20:09,541
So maybe time's just a measure,
not the whole show.

391
00:20:09,775 --> 00:20:12,377
No back to the future reruns here.

392
00:20:12,377 --> 00:20:15,380
God and all of us
exist in a singular present.

393
00:20:15,747 --> 00:20:18,784
Doctor McGee,
you're a straight shooter with the Bible.

394
00:20:19,117 --> 00:20:21,153
How do you see this shaking out?

395
00:20:21,153 --> 00:20:23,055
Glad to jump in. Right?

396
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:23,622
You're right.

397
00:20:23,622 --> 00:20:27,059
Folks tend to think time's this big river
that started flowing

398
00:20:27,059 --> 00:20:30,062
when God said, let there be light.

399
00:20:30,495 --> 00:20:32,965
But Scripture has got more to say.

400
00:20:32,965 --> 00:20:35,467
Ephesians chapter one, verse four.

401
00:20:35,467 --> 00:20:38,303
He chose us in him
before the foundation of the world.

402
00:20:38,303 --> 00:20:42,407
That's God acting before Genesis one
and is just his yardstick.

403
00:20:42,541 --> 00:20:45,544
Like you said, measure in days and seasons
for us.

404
00:20:45,644 --> 00:20:48,380
Genesis chapter one, verse 14.

405
00:20:48,380 --> 00:20:52,651
I reckon this singular present idea
fits Psalm 46 one.

406
00:20:53,018 --> 00:20:56,888
God is our refuge and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

407
00:20:57,422 --> 00:20:59,524
He is not rewind and tapes
or fast forward.

408
00:20:59,524 --> 00:21:01,293
And he's here now. Always.

409
00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:02,427
Let's get you thinking this way.

410
00:21:02,427 --> 00:21:04,930
My thanks, doctor McGee.

411
00:21:04,930 --> 00:21:08,533
It's this realization that we've led ideas
like a linear stream of time.

412
00:21:08,533 --> 00:21:13,705
Sneak in, maybe from Greek philosophy or
even sci fi vibes like back to the future.

413
00:21:14,239 --> 00:21:15,807
But if God was choosing and planning

414
00:21:15,807 --> 00:21:18,977
before creation, time
can't be the whole framework of existence.

415
00:21:19,578 --> 00:21:22,581
The ongoing sovereignty
point of view says time's a created tool,

416
00:21:22,748 --> 00:21:24,583
not the essence of reality.

417
00:21:24,583 --> 00:21:29,288
God's I am Exodus means he's in a singular
present and we're with him in it.

418
00:21:29,288 --> 00:21:32,124
No cosmic flux, just his active. Now.

419
00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:33,759
John, you've wrestled with eternity.

420
00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:35,560
Does this jive with your take?

421
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:36,328
Indeed.

422
00:21:36,328 --> 00:21:41,333
I've long contended that God's eternity
precedes and transcends creation.

423
00:21:41,867 --> 00:21:44,403
In my institute's book, chapter five,

424
00:21:44,403 --> 00:21:47,739
I write that God's being
is from everlasting to everlasting.

425
00:21:47,739 --> 00:21:48,774
Psalm 92.

426
00:21:48,774 --> 00:21:51,977
Not confined to the succession of moments
we experience

427
00:21:52,577 --> 00:21:56,281
your point that God acted prior
to creation as Ephesians

428
00:21:56,281 --> 00:22:00,419
chapter one verse
four affirms is sound time.

429
00:22:00,419 --> 00:22:03,221
Then as a measure within creation.

430
00:22:03,221 --> 00:22:06,224
Genesis chapter one, verse 1 to 5

431
00:22:06,792 --> 00:22:11,396
is not the substance of his existence,
but a framework for ours.

432
00:22:11,997 --> 00:22:16,268
This singular present he propose,
if it means God's eternal now encompasses

433
00:22:16,268 --> 00:22:20,005
all our moments without being bound
by them, accords with my view.

434
00:22:20,605 --> 00:22:23,809
Yet I'd ask, does this diminishes
for ordination

435
00:22:23,809 --> 00:22:27,145
of all events
which I see as eternal and immutable?

436
00:22:27,746 --> 00:22:29,848
Mike, this stirs my heart.

437
00:22:29,848 --> 00:22:34,486
When I wrote in Titus chapter one, verse
two of the hope of eternal life,

438
00:22:34,853 --> 00:22:38,323
which God, who never lies, promised
before the ages began,

439
00:22:38,590 --> 00:22:41,827
I saw God active before creation's
curtain rose.

440
00:22:42,427 --> 00:22:44,830
Time as a measure,
not a cosmic script, fits

441
00:22:44,830 --> 00:22:48,266
what I preached in Second Timothy
chapter one, verse nine.

442
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,237
His purpose and grace were
given us in Christ Jesus before the times.

443
00:22:53,071 --> 00:22:54,573
God's not writing a time machine.

444
00:22:54,573 --> 00:22:58,276
He's the I am present
with us, this singular present idea.

445
00:22:58,310 --> 00:23:01,947
It's like acts chapter 17, verse 28.

446
00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:05,150
In him we live and have our being.

447
00:23:05,417 --> 00:23:07,552
No past or future flux, just as now.

448
00:23:07,552 --> 00:23:09,654
How do you see this change in
how we live?

449
00:23:09,654 --> 00:23:11,556
Mike love that Paul.

450
00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:13,759
It's all about living in his now.

451
00:23:13,759 --> 00:23:15,527
This shift hits me hard.

452
00:23:15,527 --> 00:23:18,530
If time's not a sprawling timeline
starting at creation,

453
00:23:18,697 --> 00:23:21,800
but a measure God uses,
then reality is not a movie.

454
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,535
Real God's watching.

455
00:23:23,535 --> 00:23:26,538
It's a singular present
where he's sovereignly active.

456
00:23:26,638 --> 00:23:28,607
No. Back to the future flux.

457
00:23:28,607 --> 00:23:31,510
God's not bouncing between past
and future.

458
00:23:31,510 --> 00:23:34,112
He's here and we're here with him.

459
00:23:34,112 --> 00:23:36,415
It's why ongoing sovereignty
feels so alive.

460
00:23:36,415 --> 00:23:40,152
He's not locked in a recreation script,
but engaging us moment by moment.

461
00:23:40,752 --> 00:23:44,322
Doctor McGee, does this make God's
presence pop for you in daily faith?

462
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:47,058
You bet it does, Mike.

463
00:23:47,058 --> 00:23:52,330
If time's just God's ruler and he's
always in the now, that's a game changer.

464
00:23:52,597 --> 00:23:55,333
Matthew. Chapter 28, verse 20.

465
00:23:55,333 --> 00:23:58,036
Though I am with you
always ain't just poetry.

466
00:23:58,036 --> 00:23:59,604
It's real as rain.

467
00:23:59,604 --> 00:24:02,407
No cosmic episodes are time travel hijinx.

468
00:24:02,407 --> 00:24:04,109
God's right here running things.

469
00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:07,579
It makes me think of Hebrews chapter 13.

470
00:24:07,779 --> 00:24:08,547
Verse eight.

471
00:24:08,547 --> 00:24:11,550
He's saying yesterday, today and forever.

472
00:24:12,050 --> 00:24:13,552
He's not flipping through history books.

473
00:24:13,552 --> 00:24:15,921
He's present, working it out with us.

474
00:24:15,921 --> 00:24:18,723
And Greeks might have box time up fancy,

475
00:24:18,723 --> 00:24:21,793
but this keeps it
simple and close our way in.

476
00:24:21,793 --> 00:24:23,195
Doctor McGee.

477
00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:26,264
This singular present, Michael,
if it preserves

478
00:24:26,264 --> 00:24:30,669
God's eternal decree,
I find it compelling in my commentary

479
00:24:30,669 --> 00:24:35,307
on John chapter
eight, verse 58, Before Abraham was I am.

480
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,378
I note Christ's claim to timeless present
time is a measure for creation,

481
00:24:40,378 --> 00:24:43,815
not the essence of God's being aligns
with Genesis one

482
00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:47,018
and revelation chapter one, verse eight,

483
00:24:47,018 --> 00:24:49,788
who is and who was who is to come?

484
00:24:49,788 --> 00:24:52,891
Yet I insist his acting before creation.

485
00:24:52,891 --> 00:24:57,429
Ephesians chapter one, verse four means
all history is within his eternal will.

486
00:24:58,063 --> 00:25:00,632
Does your theology insure this,
or does it risk

487
00:25:00,632 --> 00:25:03,268
making his sovereignty seem reactive?

488
00:25:03,268 --> 00:25:05,837
John, I hear you and Mike. I'd add this

489
00:25:06,771 --> 00:25:09,207
God singular present doesn't shrink
his power.

490
00:25:09,207 --> 00:25:10,709
It magnifies it.

491
00:25:10,709 --> 00:25:13,712
In Romans chapter eight, verse 38 to 39,

492
00:25:13,979 --> 00:25:18,917
I wrote that nothing not time, not height,
not depth separates us from his love.

493
00:25:19,518 --> 00:25:20,819
This now isn't a limit.

494
00:25:20,819 --> 00:25:22,354
It's where he meets us.

495
00:25:22,354 --> 00:25:23,989
Think of Pentecost, acts two.

496
00:25:23,989 --> 00:25:26,525
The spirit didn't wait for a future cue.

497
00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:30,228
He came when God willed in that moment,
ongoing

498
00:25:30,228 --> 00:25:33,932
sovereignty with a singular present
means God's not playing catch up.

499
00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:37,903
He's the Lord of the now,
weaving all things to his glory.

500
00:25:38,570 --> 00:25:40,672
That's it. Paul, Lord of the now.

501
00:25:40,672 --> 00:25:44,209
John, to your point,
this doesn't make God reactive.

502
00:25:44,576 --> 00:25:47,479
His eternal will holds every possibility.

503
00:25:47,479 --> 00:25:51,650
Like that chess master, we talked
about Ephesians chapter one, verse 11.

504
00:25:52,817 --> 00:25:55,820
All things after
the counsel of his will still stands.

505
00:25:56,054 --> 00:25:58,056
But time's not a sprawling stream.

506
00:25:58,056 --> 00:25:59,691
It's his measure for the singular present.

507
00:25:59,691 --> 00:26:00,692
We share.

508
00:26:00,692 --> 00:26:04,529
Doctor McGee, does this cut through
the clutter for folks in the pews?

509
00:26:05,363 --> 00:26:08,199
Does my folks don't need a PhD
to get this.

510
00:26:08,199 --> 00:26:11,036
God's here
now. Always has been, always will be.

511
00:26:11,036 --> 00:26:14,806
No fancy time travel nonsense,
just the present tense God.

512
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,709
Psalm 118 24.

513
00:26:17,709 --> 00:26:19,945
This is the day the Lord has made
feels like his hand.

514
00:26:19,945 --> 00:26:24,015
And as each moment
fresh, it's practical, eye level faith.

515
00:26:24,616 --> 00:26:28,086
I'll concede, Michael,
if time is God's measure

516
00:26:28,086 --> 00:26:31,089
and his sovereignty reigns
in this singular present,

517
00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:34,526
it exalts his nearness
without compromising his eternity.

518
00:26:35,126 --> 00:26:37,529
Provided his decree remains the source.

519
00:26:37,529 --> 00:26:40,031
I see merit and it end with joy.

520
00:26:40,031 --> 00:26:43,001
Revelation chapter four, verse eight.

521
00:26:43,234 --> 00:26:46,438
The creatures cry, Holy, holy, holy,

522
00:26:46,438 --> 00:26:50,709
holy is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is, and is to come.

523
00:26:50,909 --> 00:26:52,344
His now is our home.

524
00:26:52,344 --> 00:26:55,113
Praise him amazing guys.

525
00:26:55,113 --> 00:26:57,148
Time is a measure, not a cosmic episode.

526
00:26:57,148 --> 00:27:00,285
God singular present ties
ongoing sovereignty together.

527
00:27:00,919 --> 00:27:03,488
Next,
let's hit freewill in this framework.

528
00:27:03,488 --> 00:27:07,993
Here's the angle ongoing sovereignty says
God's decrees are perfectly accomplished.

529
00:27:07,993 --> 00:27:09,494
He's got authority over all,

530
00:27:09,494 --> 00:27:12,497
but he's chosen to give his creatures
a ton of autonomy.

531
00:27:12,497 --> 00:27:17,068
He only steps in when our actions might
derail his plans, like with Jonah or Noah.

532
00:27:17,636 --> 00:27:21,973
And just to be clear, when I say freewill,
I'm not denying total depravity.

533
00:27:21,973 --> 00:27:24,976
I still see salvation
as the work of the Triune God.

534
00:27:25,010 --> 00:27:28,079
Doctor McGhee, you've preached on
God's control and our choices.

535
00:27:28,246 --> 00:27:30,348
How does this strike you? Mike?

536
00:27:30,348 --> 00:27:32,350
I like how you're tying this together.

537
00:27:32,350 --> 00:27:35,020
Scriptures plain as day. God's in charge.

538
00:27:35,020 --> 00:27:37,922
Daniel, chapter four, verse 35.

539
00:27:37,922 --> 00:27:40,692
He do us according to his will,
in the army of heaven

540
00:27:40,692 --> 00:27:42,560
and among the inhabitants of the earth.

541
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,762
Nobody's stopping him.

542
00:27:43,762 --> 00:27:45,030
But you're right.

543
00:27:45,030 --> 00:27:46,865
He lets us run along leash.

544
00:27:46,865 --> 00:27:49,467
Okay, Jonah, God said, go to Nineveh.

545
00:27:49,467 --> 00:27:52,470
Jonah said, nope and headed for Tarshish.

546
00:27:52,904 --> 00:27:54,372
God didn't stop him.

547
00:27:54,372 --> 00:27:57,242
He sent a storm and a fish to nudge him
back.

548
00:27:57,242 --> 00:27:58,843
That's your ongoing sovereignty.

549
00:27:58,843 --> 00:28:03,915
God's decrees win, but he's working with
our choices, not yanking puppet strings.

550
00:28:04,315 --> 00:28:05,817
I'd say it's practical.

551
00:28:05,817 --> 00:28:09,087
Folks got freedom,
but God's got the final say.

552
00:28:09,387 --> 00:28:10,522
What's cooking in your head?

553
00:28:10,522 --> 00:28:13,124
My thanks, doctor McGee.

554
00:28:13,124 --> 00:28:15,160
That's the vibe I'm getting at.

555
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,097
God's authority is absolute,
but he's woven autonomy into the fabric of

556
00:28:19,097 --> 00:28:20,298
creation.

557
00:28:20,298 --> 00:28:23,301
His decrees are like guardrails,
not a straitjacket.

558
00:28:23,568 --> 00:28:26,938
He steps in, like with Noah
building the ark, or Jonah preaching

559
00:28:26,938 --> 00:28:28,940
when our moves could mess
with his big picture.

560
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:31,543
But day to day, we've got real choices.

561
00:28:31,543 --> 00:28:32,877
you're the predestination guy.

562
00:28:32,877 --> 00:28:35,880
Does this clash with your view,
or can it fit?

563
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:40,518
Michael, I consider this with solemn care
in my institute's book

564
00:28:40,518 --> 00:28:45,857
three, chapter 21st, I teach that God's
eternal decree governs all things.

565
00:28:45,857 --> 00:28:48,693
Proverbs chapter 16, verse 33.

566
00:28:48,693 --> 00:28:52,797
The lot is cast into the lap,
but its every decision is from the Lord.

567
00:28:53,398 --> 00:28:56,134
You are ongoing. Sovereignty intrigues me.

568
00:28:56,134 --> 00:28:59,404
If God grants autonomy yet ensures
his will prevails,

569
00:28:59,871 --> 00:29:02,173
it echoes my view of providence.

570
00:29:02,173 --> 00:29:04,809
Consider Jonah. His fight was real, yet

571
00:29:04,809 --> 00:29:08,279
God ordained the storm
and the fish to fulfill his purpose.

572
00:29:08,847 --> 00:29:12,617
I'd say this faster autonomy is real,
but bounded by his sovereign will.

573
00:29:13,218 --> 00:29:14,619
Man's depravity remains.

574
00:29:14,619 --> 00:29:17,021
Romans chapter three, verse 11.

575
00:29:17,021 --> 00:29:18,890
There is none that seeketh after God.

576
00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:21,392
So salvation is wholly God's act.

577
00:29:21,392 --> 00:29:25,263
Does your theology affirm
that our freedom never thwarts his decree?

578
00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:28,566
Mike. This stirs my spirit.

579
00:29:28,566 --> 00:29:31,569
In Philippians chapter two, verse
12 to 13, I wrote,

580
00:29:31,636 --> 00:29:35,106
work out your own salvation
with fear and trembling, for it is

581
00:29:35,106 --> 00:29:38,643
God who works in you both to will
and to work for his good pleasure.

582
00:29:39,277 --> 00:29:40,712
That's your autonomy and sovereignty.

583
00:29:40,712 --> 00:29:44,682
Dance God's decrees,
like saving the Gentiles, always stand,

584
00:29:44,783 --> 00:29:46,651
but he uses all steps.

585
00:29:46,651 --> 00:29:48,453
Take me in acts 16.

586
00:29:48,453 --> 00:29:51,055
I plan to go to be a senior.

587
00:29:51,055 --> 00:29:52,557
But the spirit blocked me.

588
00:29:52,557 --> 00:29:54,859
God steered when it mattered.

589
00:29:54,859 --> 00:29:57,829
Jonah's a beauty who ran from God yet
preached in Nineveh

590
00:29:57,829 --> 00:30:02,333
because God's will ruled on this ongoing
sovereignty feels alive.

591
00:30:02,367 --> 00:30:03,835
God's not micromanaging.

592
00:30:03,835 --> 00:30:05,737
But he's not asleep either.

593
00:30:05,737 --> 00:30:08,006
How do you see this
playing out in us, Mike?

594
00:30:08,006 --> 00:30:10,175
Perfect. Paul. That's the heartbeat of it.

595
00:30:10,175 --> 00:30:13,311
In ongoing sovereignty,
God's decrees are rock solid.

596
00:30:13,311 --> 00:30:16,981
Ephesians chapter one, verse 11,
all things after the council of his will.

597
00:30:17,382 --> 00:30:19,651
But he's given us real space to act.

598
00:30:19,651 --> 00:30:20,919
Think of Noah.

599
00:30:20,919 --> 00:30:22,620
God said, build an ark.

600
00:30:22,620 --> 00:30:24,989
And Noah could have said no,
but he didn't.

601
00:30:24,989 --> 00:30:27,392
His choice aligned with God's plan.

602
00:30:27,392 --> 00:30:27,992
God steps

603
00:30:27,992 --> 00:30:31,796
in like the flood or Jonah's fish,
when our autonomy might veer off his path.

604
00:30:32,463 --> 00:30:34,566
John, I'm with you on depravity.

605
00:30:34,566 --> 00:30:35,333
We're dead in sin.

606
00:30:35,333 --> 00:30:39,404
Ephesians chapter two, verse one
and only father, son and spirit, save us.

607
00:30:40,038 --> 00:30:41,339
This isn't plagiarism.

608
00:30:41,339 --> 00:30:43,775
Our wills free, but it's not ultimate.

609
00:30:43,775 --> 00:30:46,778
Doctor McGee,
does this balance feel biblical to you?

610
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:47,812
You bet.

611
00:30:47,812 --> 00:30:50,815
My, it's got that good old Bible
ring to it.

612
00:30:50,815 --> 00:30:53,518
God's running the show. Psalm 115 three.

613
00:30:53,518 --> 00:30:56,487
He does all that he pleases,
but he ain't squashing us flat.

614
00:30:56,487 --> 00:31:02,327
I think of Joshua chapter 24, verse 15,
choose you this day whom he will serve.

615
00:31:02,327 --> 00:31:04,095
Real choice right there.

616
00:31:04,095 --> 00:31:05,563
Yet when Pharaoh got uppity

617
00:31:05,563 --> 00:31:08,566
in Exodus, God hardened his heart
to keep the plan on track.

618
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:12,937
Your ongoing sovereignty says God's
watching, letting us move and stepping in.

619
00:31:12,937 --> 00:31:16,608
When I counsel like a shepherd
with a flock, it's folksy and faithful.

620
00:31:16,608 --> 00:31:17,942
Keeps us responsible.

621
00:31:17,942 --> 00:31:20,912
But him in charge. I'll press this.
Michael.

622
00:31:21,012 --> 00:31:22,480
Your examples. Noah.

623
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,450
Jonah, show
God's will prevailing, which I affirm

624
00:31:25,917 --> 00:31:29,020
in my commentary on Romans chapter
nine, verse 16.

625
00:31:29,354 --> 00:31:33,191
It is not of him that wealth,
but of God, that she with mercy I argue

626
00:31:33,191 --> 00:31:37,428
our wills are free and scope, yet
captive to sin and subject to his purpose.

627
00:31:38,029 --> 00:31:42,667
If this vast autonomy means
we act genuinely, yet God intervenes

628
00:31:42,667 --> 00:31:46,638
to secure his decrees like Ninevites,
repentance or the floods timing.

629
00:31:46,638 --> 00:31:49,807
I can reconcile it with Providence,
but I'd guard

630
00:31:49,807 --> 00:31:52,810
against implying our freedom rivals
his authority.

631
00:31:53,177 --> 00:31:56,147
Does this theology keep his primacy clear?

632
00:31:56,147 --> 00:32:01,252
John, I see your caution, and Mike,
I build on it in first Corinthians

633
00:32:01,252 --> 00:32:05,423
chapter three, verse nine, I called us
God's fellow workers, real partnership.

634
00:32:05,657 --> 00:32:07,158
But under his hand

635
00:32:07,158 --> 00:32:11,429
this ongoing sovereignty shines
in how God used my shipwrecks and detours.

636
00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:14,732
Second Corinthians chapter 11, verse 25.

637
00:32:14,732 --> 00:32:17,936
My choices were mine, but his purpose
did the outcome.

638
00:32:18,469 --> 00:32:22,807
It's like Galatians chapter five, verse
13, you were called to freedom, brothers.

639
00:32:22,807 --> 00:32:24,075
We've got room to breathe.

640
00:32:24,075 --> 00:32:28,379
But when it's crunch time, like
with Jonah's storm, God's decree trumps.

641
00:32:28,513 --> 00:32:30,315
It's relational, not robotic.

642
00:32:30,315 --> 00:32:31,215
Does that hit your mark?

643
00:32:31,215 --> 00:32:32,984
Mic dead on Paul.

644
00:32:32,984 --> 00:32:35,086
Relational, not robotic.

645
00:32:35,086 --> 00:32:35,386
John.

646
00:32:35,386 --> 00:32:37,488
This keeps God's primacy front and center.

647
00:32:37,488 --> 00:32:41,159
His decrees aren't negotiable, but he's
crafted a world where our choices matter.

648
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:43,628
Noah's obedience, Jonah's rebellion.

649
00:32:43,628 --> 00:32:44,195
They're real.

650
00:32:44,195 --> 00:32:46,898
But God's authority
weaves them into his plan.

651
00:32:46,898 --> 00:32:48,967
Total depravity holds.

652
00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:50,868
We're lost without the Trinity's work.

653
00:32:50,868 --> 00:32:53,871
Romans chapter eight,
verse 30, whom he predestined,

654
00:32:53,871 --> 00:32:57,642
he also called ongoing sovereignty,
just says God sovereignly chosen

655
00:32:57,642 --> 00:33:01,512
to let us roam within his pasture,
stepping in when the sheep stray too far.

656
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,083
Doctor Mickey
does this make faith practical?

657
00:33:05,183 --> 00:33:06,918
Sure does. Mike.

658
00:33:06,918 --> 00:33:09,487
It's like God saying, don't live,
choose love.

659
00:33:09,487 --> 00:33:11,255
But I got the reins.

660
00:33:11,255 --> 00:33:14,258
Folks can grab that
freedom to pray, to act.

661
00:33:14,392 --> 00:33:17,395
No one. God's got the stuff locked down.

662
00:33:17,628 --> 00:33:20,298
Matthew chapter six, verse ten.

663
00:33:20,298 --> 00:33:23,301
Thy will be done. Needs our daily grind.

664
00:33:23,401 --> 00:33:26,337
It's a living faith, not a script.

665
00:33:26,337 --> 00:33:30,141
I'll assent Michael, if
this autonomy serves his immutable will.

666
00:33:30,675 --> 00:33:33,244
Proverbs chapter 19, verse 21.

667
00:33:33,244 --> 00:33:38,016
Many other plans in a man's heart, but
it is the Lord's purpose that prevails.

668
00:33:38,616 --> 00:33:41,019
That's my anchor, and I'd end with praise.

669
00:33:41,019 --> 00:33:42,954
Romans chapter 11, verse 36.

670
00:33:42,954 --> 00:33:45,957
From him and through him
and to him are all things.

671
00:33:46,257 --> 00:33:47,558
Our freedom is a gift.

672
00:33:47,558 --> 00:33:49,594
His sovereignty is the giver.

673
00:33:49,594 --> 00:33:52,563
Glory be awesome guys.

674
00:33:52,830 --> 00:33:55,833
Free will and ongoing sovereignty
be autonomy,

675
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,003
ultimate authority,
all under God's dynamic rule.

676
00:33:59,404 --> 00:34:02,673
Next, let's explore
sin and redemption in this light.

677
00:34:03,207 --> 00:34:06,210
Now we will explore sin and redemption
through this lens.

678
00:34:06,744 --> 00:34:09,914
Here's the twist
if God's ruling in a singular present,

679
00:34:09,914 --> 00:34:13,284
not just a fixed past decree,
he can still make decisions today.

680
00:34:13,885 --> 00:34:16,087
Scripture
calls us to pray for everyone. Salvation.

681
00:34:16,087 --> 00:34:19,457
First Timothy chapter two, verse
1 to 4, saying God desires

682
00:34:19,457 --> 00:34:22,927
all to be saved, yet
not all are ruling out universalism.

683
00:34:23,061 --> 00:34:26,164
So God's actively
working now, electing people

684
00:34:26,164 --> 00:34:29,834
for salvation as his saints pray,
all according to his good pleasure.

685
00:34:30,368 --> 00:34:33,237
Doctor McGee,
you've preached on sin and grace.

686
00:34:33,237 --> 00:34:34,972
How's this strike you?

687
00:34:34,972 --> 00:34:38,176
Good to be here, my,
this says needy staff.

688
00:34:38,776 --> 00:34:43,648
Then mess Romans chapter three, verse 23.

689
00:34:44,248 --> 00:34:48,019
All have sinned
and come short of the glory of God.

690
00:34:48,653 --> 00:34:50,688
Redemption's God's answer.

691
00:34:50,688 --> 00:34:53,991
And I love that he's not just sitting on
an old throne watching it play out.

692
00:34:54,592 --> 00:34:57,228
If ongoing sovereignty
means he's ruling and rain

693
00:34:57,228 --> 00:35:00,364
and right now, making calls today
that fits.

694
00:35:00,364 --> 00:35:03,034
First Timothy chapter two, verse four.

695
00:35:03,034 --> 00:35:05,636
But we'll have all men to be saved, or

696
00:35:05,636 --> 00:35:08,673
he's not locked into some cosmic
guest list from way back.

697
00:35:08,673 --> 00:35:11,642
He's here in our prayers
and save saving folks as we speak.

698
00:35:11,642 --> 00:35:14,645
Look at acts chapter 16, verse 31.

699
00:35:14,846 --> 00:35:18,816
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ
and thou shalt be saved.

700
00:35:18,816 --> 00:35:22,453
It's happening
now, not just decreed way back when.

701
00:35:23,054 --> 00:35:24,522
Well, that's got you thinking this.

702
00:35:24,522 --> 00:35:27,191
My thanks, doctor McGee.

703
00:35:27,191 --> 00:35:28,659
It's this tension.

704
00:35:28,659 --> 00:35:30,561
God desires all to be saved.

705
00:35:30,561 --> 00:35:31,496
Yet not all are.

706
00:35:31,496 --> 00:35:34,499
So his sovereignty must be active,
not static.

707
00:35:34,699 --> 00:35:37,301
Ongoing sovereignty sees
God's present tense.

708
00:35:37,301 --> 00:35:38,636
Reign is dynamic.

709
00:35:38,636 --> 00:35:42,373
He's not bound to a single procreation
decree that locks everything in.

710
00:35:42,940 --> 00:35:46,177
Instead, he's electing people today,
responding to prayers

711
00:35:46,744 --> 00:35:49,747
like in Second Chronicles
chapter seven, verse 14.

712
00:35:49,914 --> 00:35:52,483
If my people pray, I will hear Zinn's

713
00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:55,486
real redemption's ongoing
and God still at work.

714
00:35:56,053 --> 00:35:57,622
John, you're big on election.

715
00:35:57,622 --> 00:36:00,491
How does this fit with your view of God's
decrees?

716
00:36:00,491 --> 00:36:02,860
Greetings, Michael, and all present.

717
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:07,165
I approach this with care, as sin
and redemption are central to God's glory.

718
00:36:07,732 --> 00:36:10,201
In my Institute's book three,

719
00:36:10,201 --> 00:36:14,005
chapter 21st,
I teach that God's selection is eternal.

720
00:36:14,338 --> 00:36:16,007
He predestined us unto adoption.

721
00:36:16,007 --> 00:36:18,409
Ephesians chapter one, verse five.

722
00:36:18,409 --> 00:36:20,011
Sin. Enter to Adam.

723
00:36:20,011 --> 00:36:24,982
Romans chapter five, verse 12,
and redemption is through Christ alone.

724
00:36:25,550 --> 00:36:29,253
Your ongoing sovereignty,
if it suggests God decrees

725
00:36:29,253 --> 00:36:32,423
salvation today
rather than eternally troubles me,

726
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:36,360
Scripture says he chose us
before the foundation of the world.

727
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,462
Ephesians chapter one, verse four.

728
00:36:38,462 --> 00:36:43,634
Tight yet first Timothy chapter two, verse
four shows his desire for all,

729
00:36:43,701 --> 00:36:48,172
which I've held as his revealed will,
distinct from his secret decree.

730
00:36:48,773 --> 00:36:52,009
If you mean
he applies election in time, as we pray,

731
00:36:52,276 --> 00:36:55,846
I might find ground
provided his eternal purpose stands.

732
00:36:56,447 --> 00:36:59,150
How do you avoid universalism here?

733
00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:00,651
Grace to you brothers.

734
00:37:00,651 --> 00:37:02,820
Mike. This stirs my spirit.

735
00:37:02,820 --> 00:37:04,589
Zinn's a universal chains.

736
00:37:04,589 --> 00:37:08,259
Romans chapter six, verse 23.

737
00:37:08,793 --> 00:37:11,329
The wages of sin is death,

738
00:37:11,329 --> 00:37:14,432
but redemption's
God's gift through Christ.

739
00:37:15,032 --> 00:37:19,570
I wrote in first Timothy chapter two,
verse 1 to 4 to pray for all, because

740
00:37:19,570 --> 00:37:23,441
God desires all people to be saved
and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

741
00:37:24,008 --> 00:37:26,777
This ongoing sovereignty you're unpacking.

742
00:37:26,777 --> 00:37:28,913
It's like what I saw in the churches.

743
00:37:28,913 --> 00:37:32,617
God's not done
electing in acts chapter 13, verse 48

744
00:37:33,150 --> 00:37:36,354
as many as were appointed to eternal life
believed.

745
00:37:36,554 --> 00:37:39,557
That's active, present tense grace.

746
00:37:40,024 --> 00:37:40,558
He's reigning

747
00:37:40,558 --> 00:37:44,829
now, calling people as we pray like
when I prayed for the jailer in Philippi.

748
00:37:44,829 --> 00:37:46,197
Acts 16.

749
00:37:46,197 --> 00:37:48,933
Universalism is off the table
since too real.

750
00:37:48,933 --> 00:37:51,936
But God's saving who he wills
when he wills.

751
00:37:52,169 --> 00:37:54,805
Mike, how? How's this tied to prayer?

752
00:37:54,805 --> 00:37:56,507
Perfect setup. Paul.

753
00:37:56,507 --> 00:37:57,875
Prayers the key.

754
00:37:57,875 --> 00:38:02,780
God's present tense sovereignty means he's
acting on our pleas since the problem.

755
00:38:03,047 --> 00:38:04,048
It broke everything.

756
00:38:04,048 --> 00:38:07,752
Genesis three redemptions to fix Christ's
blood.

757
00:38:07,752 --> 00:38:10,755
First Peter chapter one, verse 18 to 19.

758
00:38:10,821 --> 00:38:14,592
But ongoing sovereignty says,
God's not just executing an old script.

759
00:38:14,592 --> 00:38:19,530
He's ruling now, electing now
first Timothy chapter two, verse 1 to 4

760
00:38:19,563 --> 00:38:20,464
isn't a wish.

761
00:38:20,464 --> 00:38:23,334
It's a call to join his desire
through prayer.

762
00:38:23,334 --> 00:38:26,704
He didn't decree universal salvation
or all would be saved,

763
00:38:27,138 --> 00:38:29,974
but he's actively saving as his people
intercede like Ninevites.

764
00:38:29,974 --> 00:38:30,808
Turn turnaround.

765
00:38:30,808 --> 00:38:33,110
In Jonah chapter three, verse ten.

766
00:38:33,110 --> 00:38:36,747
Doctor McGee, does this make redemption
feel alive in the pews?

767
00:38:37,348 --> 00:38:39,083
You bet it does, Mike.

768
00:38:39,083 --> 00:38:40,251
It's ugly.

769
00:38:40,251 --> 00:38:42,320
Psalm 51 A fifth.

770
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,689
Ensign, did my mother conceive me?

771
00:38:44,689 --> 00:38:46,324
But God's grace is bigger.

772
00:38:46,324 --> 00:38:49,894
If he's still deciding to get saved today
based on his good pleasure

773
00:38:49,894 --> 00:38:52,330
in our prayers,
that's a kick in the pants to get.

774
00:38:52,330 --> 00:38:58,469
Brian, I think of Luke 15, the lost sheep,
the lost coin, the prodigal son.

775
00:38:58,469 --> 00:39:00,871
God's out there saving folks right now.

776
00:39:00,871 --> 00:39:02,373
It ain't universalism.

777
00:39:02,373 --> 00:39:04,375
It's personal.

778
00:39:04,375 --> 00:39:06,210
John chapter three, verse 16.

779
00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:09,547
Whosoever believeth means he's picking
them one by one and we're in on it.

780
00:39:10,047 --> 00:39:12,049
John,
you're sticking to that eternal decree.

781
00:39:12,049 --> 00:39:14,051
Does this mess with it too much?

782
00:39:14,051 --> 00:39:16,320
Doctor McGee, I stand firm.

783
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,190
God's decree is eternal, not piecemeal.

784
00:39:19,190 --> 00:39:22,927
Romans chapter nine, verse 15
I will have mercy

785
00:39:22,927 --> 00:39:25,930
on whom I have mercy
shows his sovereign choice.

786
00:39:26,097 --> 00:39:28,599
Yet, Michael,
your focus on prayer intrigues

787
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:33,070
me in my commentary on one Timothy two,
I note, God's desire

788
00:39:33,070 --> 00:39:36,507
for all reflects his goodness,
not a universal decree.

789
00:39:37,141 --> 00:39:40,444
If ongoing sovereignty means
he applies his eternal election

790
00:39:40,444 --> 00:39:43,714
in time using our prayers,
this means I can reconcile it.

791
00:39:44,281 --> 00:39:46,283
Consider Moses interceding. Exodus

792
00:39:47,618 --> 00:39:48,753
God relented.

793
00:39:48,753 --> 00:39:53,023
Yet I'd say it fulfilled his purpose,
since penalties paid,

794
00:39:53,124 --> 00:39:55,025
redemption unfolds now.

795
00:39:55,025 --> 00:39:57,361
But the elect were known eternally.

796
00:39:57,361 --> 00:39:59,563
Does this preserve his freedom?

797
00:39:59,563 --> 00:40:02,633
John, I see your anchor and Mike.

798
00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:04,268
I'd build on this.

799
00:40:04,268 --> 00:40:06,971
God's freedom shines in his present reign.

800
00:40:06,971 --> 00:40:08,739
Since chains are broken by the cross.

801
00:40:08,739 --> 00:40:10,741
Galatians chapter one, verse four.

802
00:40:10,741 --> 00:40:12,977
He gave himself for our sins.

803
00:40:12,977 --> 00:40:15,813
Redemption is not a done deal
sitting on a shelf.

804
00:40:15,813 --> 00:40:17,047
It's alive.

805
00:40:17,047 --> 00:40:21,285
In Second Corinthians chapter six,
verse two, now it's the day of salvation.

806
00:40:21,585 --> 00:40:25,055
I saw God saving folks
as we preached and prayed.

807
00:40:25,656 --> 00:40:29,593
This ongoing sovereignty means he's
elected today, not just checking a list.

808
00:40:30,161 --> 00:40:33,964
First Timothy chapter two, verse
four is no empty hope.

809
00:40:33,964 --> 00:40:37,902
He acts when his saints cry out like in
Romans chapter ten, verse 13,

810
00:40:38,068 --> 00:40:41,071
whoever calls on
the name of the Lord will be saved.

811
00:40:41,572 --> 00:40:43,974
That's it. Paul redemption's alive.

812
00:40:43,974 --> 00:40:46,210
John, your eternal decree holds.

813
00:40:46,210 --> 00:40:47,478
God's not scrambling.

814
00:40:47,478 --> 00:40:49,914
He's sovereign,
but his freedom lets him act.

815
00:40:49,914 --> 00:40:53,184
Today sin's defeated
and he's applying salvation as we pray.

816
00:40:53,751 --> 00:40:54,785
No universalism.

817
00:40:54,785 --> 00:40:57,788
He elects who he wills.
But it's not static.

818
00:40:57,922 --> 00:41:00,257
Think James chapter five, verse 16.

819
00:41:00,257 --> 00:41:02,893
The prayer of a righteous person
has great power.

820
00:41:02,893 --> 00:41:04,995
God's reigning now, saving now.

821
00:41:04,995 --> 00:41:06,497
Doctor McGee.

822
00:41:06,497 --> 00:41:08,899
Final thought on this for the everyday
believer.

823
00:41:08,899 --> 00:41:09,800
Robert.

824
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,772
sins a beast, but God's bigger one
John chapter one, verse nine.

825
00:41:14,872 --> 00:41:18,576
He is faithful
and just to forgive if he's still pagan.

826
00:41:18,576 --> 00:41:20,578
Folks today here in our prayers.

827
00:41:20,578 --> 00:41:22,680
That's a live wire for faith.

828
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:24,348
Tell folks to pray like it matters.

829
00:41:24,348 --> 00:41:25,816
Does it does.

830
00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:27,017
That is not done yet.

831
00:41:27,017 --> 00:41:28,752
He's the king right now.

832
00:41:28,752 --> 00:41:30,120
I'll end thus. Michael.

833
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,123
God's sovereignty over
sin and redemption is sure

834
00:41:33,524 --> 00:41:37,061
if his present reign uses prayer
to save the elect, I sense,

835
00:41:37,061 --> 00:41:42,299
so long as his eternal will governs
all Romans chapter eight, verse 30.

836
00:41:42,299 --> 00:41:46,737
Whom he predestined, he also called,
and I rejoice, Christ reigns now

837
00:41:47,338 --> 00:41:49,807
Ephesians chapter three, verse 11,

838
00:41:49,807 --> 00:41:53,644
the eternal purpose realized in Christ
Jesus unfolds today.

839
00:41:54,245 --> 00:41:58,749
To him be glory, wow, sin and redemption
in God's present tense.

840
00:41:58,749 --> 00:42:00,918
Rule, dynamic. Not done.

841
00:42:00,918 --> 00:42:03,854
Finally, let's consider
the impact of this understanding

842
00:42:03,854 --> 00:42:05,556
on our eternal relationship with God.

843
00:42:05,556 --> 00:42:09,093
We've been unpacking
ongoing sovereignty theology, and today

844
00:42:09,093 --> 00:42:12,196
we're wrapping up with how the shapes
our eternal relationship with God.

845
00:42:12,763 --> 00:42:15,599
This whole journey started for me
with a light bulb moment.

846
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,869
We're created to glorify God
and enjoy a relationship with him forever.

847
00:42:19,470 --> 00:42:20,304
That got me thinking.

848
00:42:20,304 --> 00:42:24,408
If God's all knowing in outside time,
like Greek philosophy often frames it,

849
00:42:24,675 --> 00:42:28,212
our eternal bond feels one sided,
like he's just watching a done deal.

850
00:42:28,812 --> 00:42:32,950
But scripture shows real two way
relationships, dynamic, alive,

851
00:42:32,950 --> 00:42:34,818
that live for me.

852
00:42:34,818 --> 00:42:39,390
Knowing God the great
I am exists in this singular present.

853
00:42:39,390 --> 00:42:42,359
And once an ongoing relationship
with us forever.

854
00:42:42,359 --> 00:42:43,928
It's pure joy.

855
00:42:43,928 --> 00:42:46,597
Doctor McGee,
you've preached on God's nearness.

856
00:42:46,597 --> 00:42:48,432
How does this land for you?

857
00:42:48,432 --> 00:42:51,335
Might. You're singing my tune.

858
00:42:51,335 --> 00:42:53,737
I've always said
God ain't some distant land.

859
00:42:53,737 --> 00:42:55,406
Lord is family.

860
00:42:55,406 --> 00:42:59,009
Isaiah chapter 43, verse seven.

861
00:42:59,410 --> 00:43:03,948
Everyone that is called by my name,
I have created him for my glory.

862
00:43:04,381 --> 00:43:08,485
That's our purpose,
sure, but John, chapter 17, verse three,

863
00:43:08,786 --> 00:43:11,388
this is life eternal, that they might know

864
00:43:11,388 --> 00:43:15,125
the ties it to relationship,
your ongoing sovereignty.

865
00:43:15,125 --> 00:43:17,861
Take God in the present,
not stuck outside.

866
00:43:17,861 --> 00:43:20,397
Tie makes it feel like a real friendship.

867
00:43:20,397 --> 00:43:23,400
I think of Moses chatting with God
face to face

868
00:43:23,834 --> 00:43:26,370
as a man speaketh unto his friend.

869
00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:27,071
Exodus

870
00:43:28,906 --> 00:43:31,075
eternity with him in a museum tour.

871
00:43:31,075 --> 00:43:33,010
It's a live and breathe and bond.

872
00:43:33,010 --> 00:43:34,278
What sparked this for you?

873
00:43:34,278 --> 00:43:36,747
My thanks, doctor McGee.

874
00:43:36,747 --> 00:43:38,215
It was wrestling with that Greek idea.

875
00:43:38,215 --> 00:43:41,952
God has this timeless observer knowing
everything in a static all at once.

876
00:43:42,486 --> 00:43:43,320
It made eternity

877
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,757
feel like a script I'm locked into,
not a relationship I'm part of,

878
00:43:47,324 --> 00:43:50,361
but ongoing sovereignty rooted in stuff
like ongoing

879
00:43:50,361 --> 00:43:53,797
sovereignty
talk, theology of time sees God as I am.

880
00:43:53,797 --> 00:43:57,001
Exodus 314 fully present, not detached

881
00:43:57,568 --> 00:44:00,437
relationships in the Bible
like Abraham bargaining for Sodom.

882
00:44:00,437 --> 00:44:03,073
Genesis 18,
or Jesus weeping with Mary and Martha.

883
00:44:03,073 --> 00:44:06,577
John 11 there two way dynamic eternity

884
00:44:06,577 --> 00:44:09,580
with a God who's engaged,
not aloof, fires me up.

885
00:44:10,147 --> 00:44:12,383
John, you've thought hard about eternity.

886
00:44:12,383 --> 00:44:13,917
Does this fit your view?

887
00:44:13,917 --> 00:44:15,386
Greetings, Michael and all.

888
00:44:15,386 --> 00:44:20,524
Here in my Institute's book
three, chapter 25, I write that

889
00:44:20,524 --> 00:44:25,062
our eternal state is to glorify and enjoy
God beholding his majesty.

890
00:44:25,062 --> 00:44:28,065
Revelation chapter 22, verse four.

891
00:44:28,132 --> 00:44:30,200
They shall see his face.

892
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,203
The Greek notion of a detached,
timeless deity

893
00:44:33,303 --> 00:44:36,707
indeed risks
reducing our union to a passive gaze.

894
00:44:37,274 --> 00:44:38,909
Your emphasis on God's present.

895
00:44:38,909 --> 00:44:40,177
I'm intrigues me.

896
00:44:40,177 --> 00:44:43,180
If it means his eternity embraces
our every moment.

897
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:44,715
It aligns with some

898
00:44:45,883 --> 00:44:48,385
in thy presence is fullness of joy.

899
00:44:48,385 --> 00:44:52,790
Yet I'd insist his omniscience
and transcendence ensure

900
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:57,027
he knows as fully as first
Corinthians, chapter 13, verse 12.

901
00:44:57,227 --> 00:45:00,931
Promises,
then shall I know, even as also I'm known.

902
00:45:01,565 --> 00:45:05,836
Does this theology preserve his unchanging
nature in this ongoing bond?

903
00:45:06,470 --> 00:45:08,972
Peace to you all in Christ, Mike.

904
00:45:08,972 --> 00:45:10,908
This sings to my soul.

905
00:45:10,908 --> 00:45:13,911
When I wrote in first Thessalonians
chapter four, verse 17,

906
00:45:13,977 --> 00:45:15,946
so we will always be with the Lord.

907
00:45:15,946 --> 00:45:19,049
I saw eternity as intimacy,
not a cold checklist.

908
00:45:19,583 --> 00:45:22,586
Your ongoing sovereignty,
God in the singular present, echoes

909
00:45:22,586 --> 00:45:26,490
how I experienced him in Philippians
chapter three, verse ten.

910
00:45:27,124 --> 00:45:29,393
I long to know him
and the power of his resurrection.

911
00:45:29,393 --> 00:45:31,428
This two way alive

912
00:45:31,428 --> 00:45:35,399
Greek philosophy might look God outside
time, but Scripture shows him stepping in.

913
00:45:35,399 --> 00:45:37,167
Like with me on the Damascus Road.

914
00:45:37,167 --> 00:45:41,338
Acts nine eternity
as an ongoing relationship with the I am.

915
00:45:41,972 --> 00:45:44,108
That's the gospel is heartbeat.

916
00:45:44,108 --> 00:45:44,708
How's this shift?

917
00:45:44,708 --> 00:45:47,711
Your hope,
Mike Powell it's transformed it.

918
00:45:48,145 --> 00:45:52,049
If God's not a bystander, but the I am
who's present revelation chapter 21,

919
00:45:52,049 --> 00:45:55,953
verse three, behold
the dwelling place of God is with man.

920
00:45:55,953 --> 00:45:57,788
Eternities not static.

921
00:45:57,788 --> 00:46:00,224
It's a growing, joyful dance with him.

922
00:46:00,224 --> 00:46:01,525
That's what hit me.

923
00:46:01,525 --> 00:46:02,726
We're made to glorify him.

924
00:46:02,726 --> 00:46:05,696
Isaiah chapter 43,
verse seven, and enjoy him.

925
00:46:05,696 --> 00:46:08,699
Psalm 37 four
delight yourself in the Lord.

926
00:46:09,199 --> 00:46:12,236
Greek timelessness made it feel like he's
done with me once the plan set.

927
00:46:12,536 --> 00:46:15,539
But biblical relationships
like David, Psalms or Jesus praying.

928
00:46:15,539 --> 00:46:18,008
And yet so many show give and take.

929
00:46:18,008 --> 00:46:18,942
Doctor McGee.

930
00:46:18,942 --> 00:46:21,545
Does this make heaven feel more like home?

931
00:46:21,545 --> 00:46:23,580
You bet. My heavens.

932
00:46:23,580 --> 00:46:24,882
No stuffy lecture hall.

933
00:46:24,882 --> 00:46:29,186
It's a hoedown with the Lord
John chapter 14, verse two.

934
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,723
In my father's house are many mansions.

935
00:46:32,723 --> 00:46:34,391
Sounds like a place for living.

936
00:46:34,391 --> 00:46:35,993
Not just sitting.

937
00:46:35,993 --> 00:46:40,097
Your idea, God in Joanna's back,
not just staring at him.

938
00:46:40,097 --> 00:46:42,533
Fits one John chapter three, verse two.

939
00:46:42,533 --> 00:46:45,736
We shall be like him, for
we shall see Him as He is.

940
00:46:46,303 --> 00:46:49,306
That's real fellowship on going forever.

941
00:46:49,473 --> 00:46:53,243
Then Greeks missed the heart of it,
but this keeps it warm and close.

942
00:46:53,877 --> 00:46:57,481
I'll reflect, Michael,
if this singular present means God's

943
00:46:57,481 --> 00:47:00,818
eternity meets us relationally,
it enriches my view.

944
00:47:01,451 --> 00:47:05,989
In my commentary on revelation 21,
I note God's presence with us

945
00:47:05,989 --> 00:47:10,160
is the consummation of all promises,
his unchanging nature.

946
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,430
Malachi chapter three, verse six
I am the Lord.

947
00:47:13,864 --> 00:47:18,268
I change not grounds this ongoing joy,
ensuring it's no fleeting whim.

948
00:47:18,802 --> 00:47:21,572
Yet I ask, does his foreknowledge

949
00:47:21,572 --> 00:47:25,542
of our eternal state enhance,
not diminish this two way bond?

950
00:47:26,176 --> 00:47:27,411
John? I'd say yes.

951
00:47:27,411 --> 00:47:31,949
And Mike, this lifts my wings in Ephesians
chapter two, verse seven,

952
00:47:32,249 --> 00:47:36,386
I wrote of the coming ages where God shows
the immeasurable riches of his grace.

953
00:47:37,020 --> 00:47:38,322
That's not a one sided show.

954
00:47:38,322 --> 00:47:41,358
It's him with us forever
unfolding relationships

955
00:47:41,358 --> 00:47:44,461
like mine with the Philippians,
praying, weeping, rejoicing.

956
00:47:44,461 --> 00:47:46,597
Philippians chapter one, verse four.

957
00:47:47,831 --> 00:47:48,365
Mirror what's

958
00:47:48,365 --> 00:47:52,302
come in the I am wants us,
not just our applause.

959
00:47:52,302 --> 00:47:55,305
Second Corinthians chapter six, verse 16

960
00:47:55,539 --> 00:47:58,542
I will be their God
and they shall be my people.

961
00:47:58,909 --> 00:48:00,844
That's eternity's pulse.

962
00:48:00,844 --> 00:48:02,980
That's it. Paul. Eternity's pulse.

963
00:48:02,980 --> 00:48:05,616
John.
His foreknowledge doesn't flatten it.

964
00:48:05,616 --> 00:48:06,316
It deepens it.

965
00:48:06,316 --> 00:48:09,319
He knows every step of this forever dance
and still delights in it.

966
00:48:09,720 --> 00:48:15,259
Doctor McGee, this ongoing relationship,
does it preach like a hallelujah chorus.

967
00:48:15,259 --> 00:48:17,294
My folks need to hear this.

968
00:48:17,294 --> 00:48:20,297
God's not done with us
at the pearly gates.

969
00:48:20,764 --> 00:48:22,900
He starting something eternal.

970
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:25,202
Zephaniah chapter three, verse 17.

971
00:48:25,202 --> 00:48:29,339
He will rejoice over you
with singing that same and join us too.

972
00:48:29,940 --> 00:48:33,644
It's a sermon that sticks out
a Saint Michael.

973
00:48:33,810 --> 00:48:36,680
If ongoing sovereignty frames eternity
as God's

974
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,750
present to relational reign,
it glorifies him.

975
00:48:40,317 --> 00:48:43,587
Hebrews chapter 13, verse eight
Jesus Christ

976
00:48:43,587 --> 00:48:47,124
the same yesterday and today
and forever secures it.

977
00:48:47,724 --> 00:48:48,725
And I'd end in worship.

978
00:48:48,725 --> 00:48:51,194
Romans chapter 11, verse 36.

979
00:48:51,194 --> 00:48:53,096
To him be glory forever.

980
00:48:53,096 --> 00:48:55,565
And ongoing relationship with the I am.

981
00:48:55,565 --> 00:48:57,434
That's our forever joy.

982
00:48:57,434 --> 00:48:59,169
Wow guys. This seals it.

983
00:48:59,169 --> 00:49:02,306
Ongoing sovereignty
makes our eternal relationship with God

984
00:49:02,673 --> 00:49:05,676
a living two way street,
not a Greek one way stair.

985
00:49:06,243 --> 00:49:08,278
Thanks for this journey. It's been epic.

986
00:49:08,278 --> 00:49:11,448
Let's call it here, but the conversations
just beginning in eternity.

987
00:49:11,715 --> 00:49:14,952
Thanks everyone for taking the time
to listen to this virtual podcast

988
00:49:14,952 --> 00:49:17,321
with people
from different parts of history.

989
00:49:17,321 --> 00:49:19,756
Please like and subscribe
and leave us your comments

990
00:49:19,756 --> 00:49:22,993
below of who you would like
to be added to the virtual interview.

991
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,068
In.