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[SPEAKER_01]: hello everyone welcome to next level humanity podcast another episode another guest masters on plug-t I have dear ono chabra here hello welcome ono hi how are you?
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[SPEAKER_00]: how good are you?
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[SPEAKER_01]: yeah yeah thanks for being here and you had me now I have you yes yes we share together in a couple of
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[SPEAKER_01]: Women in finance gatherings.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I would love to dive into no-serah capital Your view have built an amazing platform and our theme today will be capital Women changing the world of, you know, finance and woman empowerment as well And we will also speak about your platform and what you have built
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[SPEAKER_01]: What first drew you into the finance and investment world?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm Yeah, actually I've been thinking about this question a lot because it sounds like a you know just a very regular basic question But actually you really as an individual have to go into your past actually what was it that moment where you thought and obviously in hindsight I know a lot about why I made that decision
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[SPEAKER_00]: And today, but back then obviously you just go with what you're interested in and actually what it really drills down to is that I had no idea that I had ADHD when I was younger.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was before things where you were just called hyperactive or two talkative or different labels and actually I found.
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[SPEAKER_00]: certain subjects at school quite hard history.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't remember dates.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I like stories, but I couldn't remember dates.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't remember dates, you don't know when the war happened, and then you're not going to score very well on exam.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, same with other subjects, when you have ADHD, if you're not interested in something, your memory doesn't really retain the information.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas when it came to numbers,
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[SPEAKER_00]: I like that it was logical.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I like the fact that you don't have to remember a formula.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you understood how to calculate an equation, that was it and that meant that I actually had in my eyes found a shortcut if I could understand concepts, numbers and concepts then I wouldn't have to put an hours and hours and hours of work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: to get a good result.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously that meant I did very well at maths and things like a count and see, you know, as I got into A levels, but not very well at history and also sciences because it just didn't find it that interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then another moment in my life where I thought that actually, so there's a numbers side but actually what will I do with numbers is that I think when I was about 11 years old, I really had set my eyes on buying something.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and my mother said actually you only have ex pocket money and therefore you'll have to wait till you have enough money.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I came up with this ingenious idea I found a bunch of catalogs at home.
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[SPEAKER_00]: These were sort of recipe leaflets or not leaflets but booklets that were
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[SPEAKER_00]: Some reason we had acquired a number of those and I thought it would be a good idea to knock on my neighbor's door and start selling these recipe But some of I went at the age of 11 knocking doors and I managed to sell pretty much all of them It was sort of you know a few hours and I actually that may now explain why I am ended up in sales numbers sales
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, there are many moments, but those two I thought would be interesting to share, so they're thinking behind wine numbers, but also how did I go about becoming a saleswoman?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a salesman.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think for people to be a natural salesman or saleswoman, you know, you have to have this innate wisdom and also love for sales.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm a natural bold, born saleswoman as well, because, and quite often, I find myself selling
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[SPEAKER_01]: things I love the most and and I see I see that in you as well I think when we love something when we're truly inspired about something it's we we like we tend to sell that as well and early in your career what's the experience is most shaped how you think about risk and capital and decision making today
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, earlier in my career, um, yeah, so a few moments, you know, as I, I've always been very ambitious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's never enough what I'm doing, you know, and I always want to, my, my benchmark is myself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I, I think that's, um, an era of some people may, they, they look at others, they compete with others.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I always want to be better than I, what I, what I did last time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and whether I'm and so it is it is ambition, but it's balanced ambition, you know, I'm only Comprehensive myself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm only pushing myself.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I found why I feel very familiar with very good drawn to you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have the same thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't care about it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's where I do today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's where people fall into a trap because you're never going to be enough.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you always
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[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't know their life starting point.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know what they were given, what cards they were dealt with.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And also you don't know the field picture.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You just see what you see on the surface.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think, as I mentioned, I was very ambitious.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that one day, as I get promoted, I worked in asset management for most of my life, what most of my working life, what would happen when I reached the top?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What would happen then?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what happens for most people, men or women,
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[SPEAKER_00]: the top job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you own the business, right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: So the CEO or the founder or the business, you can never take over their job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can obviously go out and sell up your own company and become the founder of your own company and we'll come obviously come to that in a minute.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But you can never take that job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the alternative?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You can move to another company.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you can move to another company.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you may even get a better job
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[SPEAKER_00]: proving yourself at work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You'll have to start all over again because you're going to be working with a new set of people with new processes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You need to then re-establish your credibility.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So almost it feels like you plateau in your career and then you go down again.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The final shoot don't go down but in terms of your authority proving yourself.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in most cases, unless you go in with a huge equity partnership, you know, you put in money into a business or you're given that, you're starting not from the same level you started.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that has been on the back of my mind for a very long time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that sort of you knew that's going to happen one day.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So my problem was I didn't know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: what I would do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, you know, I would love to work for myself and would love to, you know, create something.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But for many years, I had no idea.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I tried a number of things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I would, I would, in my spare time, I decided I would learn about wine.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In my spare time, I thought I'd be a food connoisseur.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I would build those and then, you know, they would take over my day job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That never happened.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good at eating food, but forget to describe it because I'm too busy having a good time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: When I came to wine, I thought it was...
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how transparent you want us to be on this podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But please, please edit out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot of BS, when it comes to certain, I would include, I would throw art into that, too, when people describe art, certain types of art.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, wine is another one.
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[SPEAKER_00]: People use a lot of words, a lot of adjectives describe.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but you're like, what does that really mean?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so I thought that wasn't true to me, you know, I, I, I did a much worse and too much.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I did come across from my wine horses coming across more confidence.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So when I now go into restaurants or bars, people think I know a thing or two about wine.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not because I learned that much.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, of course, you learn about various things.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's because I became more confident in talking about wine.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that translated to, she must be an expert.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that happens in,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Most industries around the world.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So sorry.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've lost track of what question you are.
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's about your career and what shaped you to think.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you know, I sort of decided I wanted to do all these things, but then really the pivotal point came a few years ago in both founding not so our capital, but also the women in finance organization.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I started three years ago not so our capital became that actually
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[SPEAKER_00]: rather than fundraising.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I'm still in asset management.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My early part of career was in hedge funds.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And now, part seven years, last seven years, I've been working in private markets.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're helping the funding.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I exactly, but I've always done that, but working in house as an employee.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But decided actually that if I set up my own fundraising platform, that would make more sense.
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[SPEAKER_00]: A.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You cut out a lot of bureaucracy.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you've got an idea, you can put it into action a lot quickly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have layers and layers of meetings talking about nothing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That happens unfortunately in lots of large organizations.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it's necessary, some of it's waste of time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But everybody sort of goes along with that corporate style of working.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing is that you get a chance to represent
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[SPEAKER_00]: strategies that you truly believe in, that you truly believe in either I am impactful or actually are a good diversifier from a portfolio allocation point of view in investor portfolios.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But when you work for somebody you only have one product or two products to sell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But when you work for yourself, you can pick and choose what you think, based on the current market environment, or what you think will be a good product to take to the market.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of, and then on the women in finance front.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been very beneficial for the investors as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I would think so because you're not then biased to one product.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're almost independent because you're picking and choosing who to work with.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And just maybe one final point on the women in finance is that,
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[SPEAKER_00]: There are many communities out there and so when I set this community up three years ago, it was purely to bring senior women, so you know, there are a lot of communities out there that either
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[SPEAKER_00]: are quite niche so you must work in private equity or real estate or hedge funds to be part of it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So people who are out slightly outside of that don't get to be part of these communities and some of these communities are for all ages.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What I wanted to create was a community for senior women and there are several reasons that I'm sure will show them as we as we go through this and across the financial ecosystem because
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[SPEAKER_00]: It is an ecosystem, meaning companies do not operate in silos, so you know, banks work with insurance, companies insurance and companies are allocating to asset management firms, there's brokerage firms, so they all are interconnected to why keep them in separate silos.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Why not connect them?
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[SPEAKER_00]: and why not bring them all together?
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[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, I'll stop at that and then I'm sure we'll revisit that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Before finding Nassurah capital, what principles were you already guiding your approach to leadership and the finance world?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm don't know if I would call it principles, but I would say that in the last probably five years of my career before setting up Nassurah capital, I was asking a lot of wise.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, why are we doing it this way or why do we have extra?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Why do we have to go through five layers of approval and and I've been working for a lot of mid-tier companies So not the largest companies are where you understand why things happen a certain way So I think I was asking a lot of wise and I think that why let me to think actually maybe I do have a solution maybe Maybe there is another way there is another way and the other way is by actually
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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, sort of, extricating yourself from the, from that infrastructure form, that system and creating your own system.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So when evaluating the fundraising opportunities, what signals do you prioritize most?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so a number of things actually.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, I'm thinking from fundraising point of view, but I'm also thinking it from the investor side because they are the ones investing, IE allocating to these strategies.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I work with generally alternatives strategies.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So these could be anything from hedge funds to private markets.
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[SPEAKER_00]: they could be put.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The whole array of private debt strategies from infrastructure directly lending all the way to the liquid and or microfinance trade finance.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now a number of things really because these are not the more established names where people have heard even if you're not in the finance world you may have heard of Black Rock or the you know the legal in general or the M&G that the large names.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Here we're really evaluating a number of factors you know the track record
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[SPEAKER_00]: The founders background, what is their expertise in the strategy they've put together because ultimately they kind of go deeper You have to go a lot deeper because they are not the ones facing the investor It is your reputation and it is the investor that you're thinking of them That they are actually allocating to the strategies that are resilient that have a really good process in place So you're looking at a number of dynamics as I say from
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[SPEAKER_00]: track record, found his background, you know, just the founder of any skin in the game.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They say they can generate 3x on this strategy, have they actually put any of their own capital, have they put their money where their mouth is, you know, what kind of a team have they hired, what are their backgrounds, what compliance procedures do they have in place, what risk manager oversight do they have,
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[SPEAKER_00]: when we limit some breached or transactions on the private side don't go through the full underwriting process.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you look at all of that with a fine tooth comb to make sure because you don't want to be associated with a firm where risk is poor, there might be vulnerable to fraud.
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[SPEAKER_00]: These are quite key because they can be, because of social media blowing up very quickly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And once investors are banned, they certainly won't be looking at that strategy, but they certainly won't be, would not want to work with the individual who's representing, you know, a particular strategy, a particular manager.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So those are the sort of things, obviously, it goes a lot deeper, but just as high level, those are the things that you would look at.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, more on the safe side, to fill in the safe side.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And over the years, what patterns have you observed in companies or leaders that consistently create a long-term value?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so let me give you a fundraising view because many businesses, investment businesses fell for a number of reasons, bad performance, not being able to generate enough AUM as it's on the management.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't I focus on two, which is fundraising and investments, because there I have the most insight.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you have complied speeches, cyber security speeches, the list goes on and on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But those two, from a fundraising perspective, I see the managers who understand the fundraising cycle have patience.
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[SPEAKER_00]: have realistic goals.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Are the ones that actually are in, you know, make it to the long run and I'll give you one quick example.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That can wait.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, manager, you know, has an undermelicing expectation today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There are 200 million.
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[SPEAKER_00]: they want to go to five, let's say a billion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Within 12 months, we'll be raising a billion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't really thought out the trajectory of how they're going to get to that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I have to say having unrealistic expectations of themselves and of the team, realizing that this is a long-term game.
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[SPEAKER_00]: many of these mandates are institutional and when investors commit, they commit for the long-term and having that understanding and having that patience and having those realistic expectations to when they need to present to the board as to how quickly and how soon they can raise the capital.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I would like or when I say like but also what I've seen and found as
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[SPEAKER_00]: those are actually truly listen, you know, because not every founder or leader has expertise across all business areas, but being a good listener, you know, if your team is telling you actually this will take longer or this is what's missing in us to actually be able to market this particular strategy so that, so some of those things are important.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And just maybe a quick point on the investing side, having conviction and believing in a system
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[SPEAKER_00]: There are warning signals to abandon it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So one example would be I work for a hedge fund, back in the day, don't want to name them, but they were systematic, effects macro.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they started to use a lot of discretionary overlay when markets became volatile.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they started to lose a lot of credibility because the strategy was marketed as systematic, haunt driven, yet there was a lot of human overlay.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now in this case, the human overlay was justified.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because the portfolio was losing significant chunks of money, but the strategy was quite haphazard rather than having a full in-depth analysis of the systematic models.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then saying actually we may change the ratio of systematic versus discretionary.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was done.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there were many other factors that led to the downfall of this particular company, but one of them was this fight between discretionary overlay and systematic models.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And what I was going to actually ask what's the most common mistake you see in the founders and or investors make when raising and allocating capital.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I feel like I've now covered this answer in the previous one, but as I say, you know, not having patience and unrealistic expectations of themselves and all the people that are working with them.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, you know, I would say there's many, but those two from a fundraising point of view are probably I would say the key ones.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And to come to the topic, to change the topic of it, woman in finance platform, which are highly interested in alongside your company, you also found that the woman in finance platform.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What problem were you trying to solve in this platform?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Many, many problems, many problems.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it's senior women, and you're in the finance.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as I see, it's like,
18:47.903 --> 19:14.550
[SPEAKER_00]: you're bringing all the general, you know, women in the finance world together together, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
19:15.170 --> 19:28.633
[SPEAKER_00]: if you don't look at the core problems, and if you don't look at it more holistically, because not, I mean, men are included too, you know, men also need support and guidance throughout their careers, but it's not one fixed solution.
19:28.814 --> 19:31.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we'll just promote more women, so they will lead companies.
19:31.914 --> 19:33.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what is preventing them?
19:33.055 --> 19:35.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's, let's focus on what's preventing them.
19:35.895 --> 19:38.516
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it that they in the past have not had
19:39.397 --> 19:40.598
[SPEAKER_00]: good work life balance.
19:41.279 --> 19:45.825
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes that obviously contradicts with running a company because you can't really have a work life balance.
19:46.506 --> 19:48.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it that they lack a bit of confidence?
19:48.588 --> 19:51.772
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, not every woman lacks the same skill, right?
19:52.253 --> 19:53.354
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it lacks confidence?
19:53.514 --> 19:54.856
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it that she's not very visible?
19:54.996 --> 19:57.760
[SPEAKER_00]: Does she not put a hand up when there's a public speaking opportunity?
19:58.180 --> 20:01.402
[SPEAKER_00]: whether it's recording a podcast or whether it's introverts.
20:01.442 --> 20:07.265
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and men are introvert too, but you know, you could still, these are learnable skills.
20:07.485 --> 20:09.246
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what is my brand?
20:09.286 --> 20:16.029
[SPEAKER_00]: When people, when people ask a new chabra, is she defined by the last company she worked for or does she have her own brand?
20:16.490 --> 20:22.853
[SPEAKER_00]: My own brand I would say is I found in Nasserak Capital, even if I didn't found a company, we all have a brand.
20:23.113 --> 20:24.855
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we all have an expertise.
20:24.875 --> 20:26.897
[SPEAKER_00]: We all and do we focus on that?
20:26.997 --> 20:36.727
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like women more than men don't focus on that Are do not put their hands up for public speaking not necessarily the best they go I think we have a hard time understanding our values.
20:36.827 --> 20:44.354
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and understanding our value and also our general like experience our worth
20:45.135 --> 20:47.697
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm putting it out there, I think we're having a done talk.
20:47.737 --> 21:06.488
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also because if we look at historical structures, you know, men went out to work and women stayed at home and as that dynamic changes of course it brings out a lot of adjustments in society in the workplace and it's not to really blame men because you know men are just being men.
21:07.028 --> 21:18.726
[SPEAKER_00]: they are now obviously making room for women, but women see working in the industry whether it's finance or another industry differently, they present themselves differently.
21:19.182 --> 21:21.403
[SPEAKER_00]: and how do we integrate the two?
21:21.463 --> 21:22.584
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they end?
21:22.624 --> 21:25.285
[SPEAKER_01]: Can it also be that we, our system is different.
21:25.305 --> 21:27.546
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like our principles and the way we...
21:27.566 --> 21:28.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:28.587 --> 21:29.147
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:29.167 --> 21:30.428
[SPEAKER_01]: Approach to things.
21:30.548 --> 21:31.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:31.048 --> 21:32.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more intuitive.
21:32.649 --> 21:33.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different.
21:33.209 --> 21:38.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that can be another reason because we can't put those into systems and words.
21:39.132 --> 21:41.994
[SPEAKER_01]: It will be very hard for men to understand that.
21:42.094 --> 21:42.555
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:42.735 --> 21:44.796
[SPEAKER_00]: And women are more teen players.
21:44.836 --> 21:47.058
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to sort of because they are not yours.
21:47.178 --> 21:47.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
21:47.618 --> 21:49.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas men are hunter-gatherers.
21:49.660 --> 21:53.442
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going out, you know, and I take higher risks and we're more and more.
21:53.462 --> 21:54.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:54.463 --> 21:55.704
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a combination of things.
21:55.724 --> 21:58.586
[SPEAKER_00]: So really the part for my setup is to bring women together.
21:59.106 --> 22:09.269
[SPEAKER_00]: to pick and choose what it is that they need to improve, or enhance, or get better at, is it, as it's a negotiation skills, that's a third one, we focus a lot on that.
22:10.009 --> 22:15.950
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're in that meeting room, having that performance review, are you able to ask for that pair of eyes?
22:16.030 --> 22:21.632
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you able to articulate in an asserting way rather than saying, it's okay, I'm happy with what I have,
22:22.893 --> 22:23.753
[SPEAKER_00]: just like men do it.
22:23.774 --> 22:28.978
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we do not need to become like men, but we do need to understand how the workplace operates, right?
22:29.779 --> 22:32.781
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still a majorly dominated by men.
22:33.522 --> 22:37.726
[SPEAKER_00]: And in many cases, most of us may have mailed bosses if we're working for others.
22:38.766 --> 22:41.269
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's also good to understand things from their perspective.
22:41.289 --> 22:47.934
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not good enough to say, I'm a woman making allowance for me because we want to work with them, not against them.
22:48.355 --> 22:50.697
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to work in the industry with them, not against them.
22:50.717 --> 22:54.580
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I... And we would like, and we want to build a bridge.
22:55.022 --> 22:55.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
22:55.943 --> 22:56.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
22:56.885 --> 22:59.027
[SPEAKER_00]: We certainly shouldn't be pushing the man out of the industry.
22:59.067 --> 23:01.811
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise we'll be doing the all the childcare and all the work, right?
23:02.071 --> 23:02.972
[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't want that.
23:03.213 --> 23:06.256
[SPEAKER_00]: We want a good, we want to get good mix of the two, right?
23:06.277 --> 23:10.542
[SPEAKER_00]: So coming back to that, so the platform looks at a personal growth, personal development.
23:10.782 --> 23:12.443
[SPEAKER_00]: and then professional growth.
23:12.643 --> 23:14.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Personally, we talked about all of these things.
23:14.463 --> 23:16.704
[SPEAKER_00]: To add to that is personal finance.
23:16.724 --> 23:21.406
[SPEAKER_00]: We're out living men by at least five years on an average.
23:22.346 --> 23:25.207
[SPEAKER_00]: We also need to build better bonds with other women.
23:25.667 --> 23:27.688
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have introduced a women in sports series.
23:28.108 --> 23:29.649
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is all on the personal side.
23:29.689 --> 23:34.270
[SPEAKER_00]: Now on the professional side, do you need to enhance your knowledge on ESGN impact?
23:34.310 --> 23:36.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it geopolitics, is it macroeconomics?
23:36.771 --> 23:43.575
[SPEAKER_00]: is it private markets investing or fundraising and there are a plethora of topics within that sphere.
23:43.755 --> 23:58.064
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this platform really offers you both educational content and personal growth content and women come together over these one of these areas and build a strong network because network is your network.
23:58.424 --> 24:02.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and it's quite key that we, and you built an amazing network.
24:03.173 --> 24:03.693
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
24:03.914 --> 24:04.515
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
24:04.555 --> 24:05.697
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you do.
24:05.757 --> 24:10.125
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you see communities and network shaping the next generation of financial leaders?
24:10.740 --> 24:35.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, interesting because I feel like we're at a bit more of a level of pale plane field within that works and communities because networks often open doors to opportunities, you know, because when you meet people is when you gain knowledge and information opportunities, it could be a, it could be a new business idea, it could be a new opportunity to work in a certain far.
24:35.514 --> 24:36.675
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you get in the front post.
24:36.915 --> 24:38.096
[SPEAKER_00]: different perspectives.
24:38.216 --> 24:42.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, it could be online communities, it could be social media.
24:43.219 --> 24:45.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's a lot more accessible, right?
24:45.780 --> 24:52.364
[SPEAKER_00]: You could have, you could be part of online communities, you could be part of physical communities such as women and finance, and there's obviously many others.
24:52.864 --> 25:01.769
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is an advantage, the younger generation, compared to some of the older generations, both men and women, because of access to information.
25:02.296 --> 25:12.968
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's going to be it's kind of like when I when I look at what's happening in the world with AI and everything Yes, and you stop I think that's going to be the core of our you know daily routine.
25:13.048 --> 25:18.494
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's going to like be just networking and being with humans and spending more time at Would that be great.
25:18.514 --> 25:19.275
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would be great.
25:19.435 --> 25:19.996
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would be great.
25:20.036 --> 25:30.940
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I mean, it feels like we've got kind of got a little bit the other way with a lot of the Gen Zs and the general for spending a lot more time on digital technology and not really interacting with with other humans.
25:31.380 --> 25:35.181
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be great if we can switch up because humans need that.
25:35.201 --> 25:36.702
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what humans were designed to do.
25:36.902 --> 25:42.964
[SPEAKER_01]: And when the rest of the stuff is done by Robert Robertson, you know, yeah, we'll have more time to, you know.
25:43.573 --> 25:46.836
[SPEAKER_00]: to build, yeah, so yeah, be together and build a relationship.
25:46.916 --> 25:47.076
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:47.196 --> 25:53.081
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a question I usually ask to anyone in the finance world or the leadership.
25:53.141 --> 25:57.485
[SPEAKER_01]: What belief about finance and leadership have you personally outgrown over the years?
25:57.925 --> 25:59.346
[SPEAKER_00]: Have I outgrown?
25:59.366 --> 26:01.128
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that.
26:03.363 --> 26:28.215
[SPEAKER_00]: If a structure is in place, it must have been carefully thought through an investment process or a structure, whether it's compliance or a risk management, be curious and be questioned it because you'll find that sometimes these structures can be outdated and so don't be afraid to ask the why, you know, why are we doing something this way?
26:28.816 --> 26:37.992
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes it's a very good answer and if it sounds plausible and you've checked and that's great, but if it's not always asked the why because it may be a better
26:38.535 --> 27:02.168
[SPEAKER_00]: wait or more efficient way to do something and that's one thing I think about the Gen Z they may not have all the answers because obviously they still have a lot of learning to do an experience to gain but they are more likely to ask the why compared to the older generations and that's a great quality that we should not shut down you know ask the why I agree I agree I let them ask the why yeah yeah yeah yeah I think we're
27:03.108 --> 27:12.312
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we move away from all the markets and investment decisions, what helps you reset your own perspective, how do you reset yourself?
27:12.452 --> 27:17.915
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, actually, having some alone time and it doesn't even matter where the alone time is.
27:18.475 --> 27:22.518
[SPEAKER_00]: It's either a long shower, it could be a walk along the river near my house.
27:23.338 --> 27:24.419
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a face.
27:25.019 --> 27:34.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sorry, just away from everyone because I find like because, you know, when you're fundraising, you're constantly around people, you're obviously going up to pitch.
27:34.586 --> 27:40.690
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're women in part of the women in finance, it's a network so you're constantly meeting, you know, new people.
27:41.310 --> 27:43.712
[SPEAKER_00]: You're either organizing events, attending events.
27:44.452 --> 27:46.054
[SPEAKER_00]: and then when you're home, you're with family.
27:46.395 --> 27:48.417
[SPEAKER_00]: In my case, my 12-year-old and my husband.
27:49.138 --> 27:51.121
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, actually my mother.
27:51.241 --> 27:52.963
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's a lot of people around me.
27:52.983 --> 27:58.610
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I just think having the space for just to be on your own even for short bursts of time.
27:58.710 --> 28:00.292
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I find that quite therapeutic.
28:01.053 --> 28:01.833
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm quite relax.
28:01.913 --> 28:02.354
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
28:02.374 --> 28:03.294
[SPEAKER_01]: I fully.
28:03.354 --> 28:08.415
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't sometimes, it doesn't even matter where I am because I'm on my own in my head and that's full I need.
28:08.455 --> 28:09.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Just quietness.
28:10.116 --> 28:10.396
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:11.056 --> 28:17.238
[SPEAKER_01]: And what lesson from your career in finance have shaped you your approach to life beyond business?
28:18.218 --> 28:18.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:19.659 --> 28:20.239
[SPEAKER_00]: Speak up.
28:21.104 --> 28:22.405
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
28:22.605 --> 28:23.565
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid.
28:24.566 --> 28:43.894
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid because I have had a number of times both that work which I then obviously the learnings from that I applied my personal life is that I had a lot to say in several scenarios and maybe I can give you a small example because it's always nice to tell a little story and going home and internalizing that stress.
28:44.454 --> 28:46.695
[SPEAKER_00]: and actually that's not good for your health, right?
28:46.735 --> 28:54.819
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're like, well, I'm fully capable of expressing my view, I just didn't, because I'm worried too much about the fallout, the consequence.
28:55.220 --> 28:59.402
[SPEAKER_00]: If I respond to this scenario, what will be the fallout?
28:59.442 --> 29:01.563
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not really my responsibility.
29:01.883 --> 29:08.086
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I've learned to speak up, obviously, you don't have to be confrontation,
29:09.868 --> 29:16.720
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be a situation where you're looking to fight, but you can't put your point across.
29:17.421 --> 29:20.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Straight out, but you can put it across very diplomatically.
29:20.547 --> 29:22.230
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't necessarily, but...
29:23.446 --> 29:27.449
[SPEAKER_00]: how the other side or the other person takes it is not your responsibility.
29:27.469 --> 29:29.931
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's taken me some time to learn that.
29:29.951 --> 29:32.753
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what's the same reaction is not my responsibility.
29:32.773 --> 29:33.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very action.
29:33.654 --> 29:43.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I suppose a story is, it's been so many years that it's actually okay to share is that I work for a manager, an asset management.
29:43.641 --> 29:47.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just put it a sort of a broad effects management firm in London.
29:47.064 --> 29:51.508
[SPEAKER_00]: I worked for two, so that way you know, their name doesn't need to be disclosed.
29:52.489 --> 29:54.611
[SPEAKER_00]: And I bought a very, very big deal to the table.
29:54.992 --> 29:57.814
[SPEAKER_00]: I've probably haven't talked about this in public ever before.
29:58.395 --> 30:05.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, by laterally, within individuals, I bought a really, really big deal to the table from a French client.
30:06.602 --> 30:09.145
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had been involved in the whole process from
30:09.685 --> 30:35.549
[SPEAKER_00]: the initial contact with the several meetings through submitting tender documents to win this mandate, but when everything was sort of signed and dusted as my boss at the time was walking out and I was walking out for a lunch with this investor to just say thank you to them and I was told not to join the lunch and I was told not to join the lunch it's because I didn't speak any French.
30:38.282 --> 30:46.552
[SPEAKER_00]: And my boss at the time did speak French, so he thought for a relationship building it would be useful that only he is at the lunch.
30:46.693 --> 30:53.982
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously he did that because he wanted to prove to senior management that he was responsible for bringing that client over the line.
30:54.502 --> 31:00.326
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, in that moment, I should have said, actually, I'm going to admit it for the last two years that I worked on this relationship.
31:00.986 --> 31:20.057
[SPEAKER_00]: We did not need to speak in English, sorry in French, we spoke in English, and the tender was done in French, but to do the tender, one of my very close friends from the industry did, so not only did I run the relationship in English, I then found a French individual to do the tender, so I had, of course, you're the boss, I get it, and you
31:20.598 --> 31:22.199
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, helped and supported the deal.
31:22.579 --> 31:30.004
[SPEAKER_00]: But to then, you know, in that manner, to exclude me, so that aesthetically it looks like you're taking it.
31:30.384 --> 31:34.366
[SPEAKER_00]: And I internalized a lot of that stress over the, over the next several months.
31:34.727 --> 31:40.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And that wasn't good for my health because what could have happened if I had said, well, I had presented my reasons.
31:40.690 --> 31:48.660
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the outcome would have been similar but actually I would have felt much better because I would have made known my values and what I thought of that.
31:48.940 --> 31:58.872
[SPEAKER_00]: So that actually has been a huge that lesson has taught me a lot and that I think had gave me the fire and the belly to set up the community.
31:59.172 --> 32:13.962
[SPEAKER_00]: because they didn't want anyone to suffer and I hear women all the time investing in fundraising where they have been sideline for promotions for bonuses in some cases because the bosses and secure no it couldn't be a female as well in my case it just happens to be a man.
32:14.482 --> 32:29.091
[SPEAKER_00]: but the ability to speak up, the ability to feel like you can do it, you're enough, you know, those sort of things gave me the far and the belly to be like, I would never want that to happen to me again, and I would never want anyone to, you know, go through that.
32:29.571 --> 32:37.316
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just feel like when you have a community where you can discuss these things and if you're, and teach women and teach them on their worth.
32:37.576 --> 32:41.018
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and it's relatable, you know, they can relate to it, they don't feel alone
32:44.408 --> 32:47.702
[SPEAKER_00]: to be like, well, I'm not going to be putting up with that sort of behavior.
32:47.742 --> 32:49.369
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love it, I love it.
32:50.180 --> 33:03.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a great community of women, like I've gotten to the last event, one of the last events in powerful and brilliant women.
33:03.330 --> 33:04.771
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you for coming to that event.
33:04.791 --> 33:07.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, women, they're just absolutely amazing.
33:08.333 --> 33:16.079
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you currently learning in finance philosophy or leadership approach?
33:16.592 --> 33:16.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:17.053 --> 33:19.055
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we never stop learning.
33:19.115 --> 33:20.657
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that we're always learning.
33:20.757 --> 33:30.168
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for now, my focus is actually other than obviously running the business day to day and you know, finding sponsors and new content and mountain.
33:30.618 --> 33:45.329
[SPEAKER_00]: and enhancing my marketing skills because even though I have people working with me, you feel like you have to start learning about skills, you didn't think you needed, you know, because you can't really work with others or manage others if you don't understand what sort of work you're doing.
33:45.349 --> 33:49.792
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think a core learning focus for me at the moment is leadership skills.
33:50.172 --> 33:59.699
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, leadership skills evolve, you know, when you're working in a large team within infrastructure, managing people versus running your own company and managing people.
34:00.199 --> 34:16.455
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a constant learning curve also because the generation above me who I've worked with for most of my life are not the generation I'm now managing which are below me and younger and the way they come to work and their expectations and how they want to work.
34:17.416 --> 34:44.459
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm still navigating that because there's a bit of a gap, you know, how I worked and how they were and trying to sort of meet halfway because, you know, we have our, you know, we all have our own way of working, we want to make room for others, but I think it's almost sort of a balancing act, you know, where you meet halfway, but also being a clear and transparent and genuine communicator.
34:45.099 --> 34:47.924
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, actually sets the seeds for good leadership.
34:48.425 --> 34:51.410
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so leadership really I would say is my call.
34:52.197 --> 34:55.019
[SPEAKER_00]: co-scale that I can tell proof.
34:55.099 --> 34:56.540
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can tell and I can see.
34:57.861 --> 35:02.345
[SPEAKER_01]: As we are moving towards the end of our podcast, thank you very much for joining me, Anna.
35:02.405 --> 35:08.990
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate you coming here being here with us and love everything you shared.
35:09.410 --> 35:10.771
[SPEAKER_01]: I have one final question.
35:10.811 --> 35:17.897
[SPEAKER_01]: What advice would you give to young women who are aspiring to build careers in finance?
35:18.137 --> 35:18.317
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
35:19.178 --> 35:20.919
[SPEAKER_01]: And then to finance in general.
35:21.326 --> 35:22.707
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no such crazy idea.
35:22.747 --> 35:23.248
[SPEAKER_00]: Just do it.
35:23.748 --> 35:24.609
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't overprepared.
35:24.649 --> 35:25.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't overplan.
35:25.469 --> 35:29.252
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't wait till you're perfect at whatever skill you're looking to build.
35:29.293 --> 35:30.073
[SPEAKER_00]: Just go for it.
35:30.654 --> 35:34.377
[SPEAKER_00]: Go for it and you'll figure it out because sometimes we wait too much.
35:34.497 --> 35:36.999
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for example, I'll give you an example.
35:37.419 --> 35:40.482
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who wants to launch a business in my in my network.
35:41.382 --> 35:45.507
[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't launched it yet because their marketing is not on point.
35:46.188 --> 35:48.370
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to put a presentation back together.
35:48.811 --> 35:51.314
[SPEAKER_00]: They need more marketing collateral.
35:51.354 --> 35:52.635
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to rehearse their pitch.
35:55.245 --> 35:56.045
[SPEAKER_00]: What are they waiting for?
35:56.405 --> 35:57.085
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
35:57.125 --> 36:00.506
[SPEAKER_00]: That will all come because you put yourself up.
36:00.666 --> 36:02.487
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, step up just, just start.
36:03.107 --> 36:04.567
[SPEAKER_00]: And you might be rusty in the beginning.
36:04.587 --> 36:08.148
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's for business owners, but also for the next promotion or the next job.
36:08.748 --> 36:14.409
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think I need to spend another year in this job perfecting my, I don't know, whatever skill that is.
36:14.469 --> 36:16.110
[SPEAKER_00]: Compliance, legal, it doesn't matter.
36:16.570 --> 36:23.192
[SPEAKER_00]: But why don't you put your hand up for that role because let's think about it, mentor it all the time and then you learn on the job.
36:25.372 --> 36:29.933
[SPEAKER_00]: is expecting, even though they say tense things on a CV that you have.
36:30.153 --> 36:31.654
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an ideal wishlist.
36:31.934 --> 36:32.154
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:32.474 --> 36:36.575
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you have five or six of them, put your hand up because men are doing it all the time.
36:36.755 --> 36:36.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:37.015 --> 36:39.736
[SPEAKER_00]: Put your hand up and get that job and then you'll go for it.
36:39.776 --> 36:40.656
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
36:40.736 --> 36:41.356
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
36:41.376 --> 36:41.816
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
36:41.896 --> 36:42.556
[SPEAKER_01]: Be brave.
36:43.236 --> 36:44.177
[SPEAKER_01]: Be brave ladies.
36:47.418 --> 36:58.907
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening, thank you for watching, if you like our videos, click on like and subscribe to our YouTube channel or Spotify accounts, thank you, thank you, and I'll see you in the next episode.
00:09.808 --> 00:21.740
[SPEAKER_01]: hello everyone welcome to next level humanity podcast another episode another guest masters on plug-t I have dear ono chabra here hello welcome ono hi how are you?
00:21.780 --> 00:22.862
[SPEAKER_00]: how good are you?
00:23.222 --> 00:30.750
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah yeah thanks for being here and you had me now I have you yes yes we share together in a couple of
00:32.231 --> 00:34.513
[SPEAKER_01]: Women in finance gatherings.
00:34.754 --> 00:54.112
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and I would love to dive into no-serah capital Your view have built an amazing platform and our theme today will be capital Women changing the world of, you know, finance and woman empowerment as well And we will also speak about your platform and what you have built
00:55.413 --> 00:58.616
[SPEAKER_01]: What first drew you into the finance and investment world?
00:58.736 --> 01:16.893
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm Yeah, actually I've been thinking about this question a lot because it sounds like a you know just a very regular basic question But actually you really as an individual have to go into your past actually what was it that moment where you thought and obviously in hindsight I know a lot about why I made that decision
01:17.453 --> 01:27.806
[SPEAKER_00]: And today, but back then obviously you just go with what you're interested in and actually what it really drills down to is that I had no idea that I had ADHD when I was younger.
01:28.226 --> 01:35.115
[SPEAKER_00]: It was before things where you were just called hyperactive or two talkative or different labels and actually I found.
01:35.655 --> 01:38.556
[SPEAKER_00]: certain subjects at school quite hard history.
01:39.296 --> 01:40.457
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't remember dates.
01:40.537 --> 01:42.357
[SPEAKER_00]: I like stories, but I couldn't remember dates.
01:42.417 --> 01:47.479
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't remember dates, you don't know when the war happened, and then you're not going to score very well on exam.
01:48.379 --> 01:56.362
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, same with other subjects, when you have ADHD, if you're not interested in something, your memory doesn't really retain the information.
01:56.822 --> 01:58.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas when it came to numbers,
01:59.187 --> 02:00.888
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that it was logical.
02:00.988 --> 02:03.889
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the fact that you don't have to remember a formula.
02:03.909 --> 02:19.375
[SPEAKER_00]: If you understood how to calculate an equation, that was it and that meant that I actually had in my eyes found a shortcut if I could understand concepts, numbers and concepts then I wouldn't have to put an hours and hours and hours of work.
02:19.855 --> 02:20.716
[SPEAKER_00]: to get a good result.
02:21.096 --> 02:32.244
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously that meant I did very well at maths and things like a count and see, you know, as I got into A levels, but not very well at history and also sciences because it just didn't find it that interesting.
02:33.105 --> 02:45.754
[SPEAKER_00]: And then another moment in my life where I thought that actually, so there's a numbers side but actually what will I do with numbers is that I think when I was about 11 years old, I really had set my eyes on buying something.
02:46.225 --> 02:54.630
[SPEAKER_00]: and my mother said actually you only have ex pocket money and therefore you'll have to wait till you have enough money.
02:55.190 --> 02:59.693
[SPEAKER_00]: And I came up with this ingenious idea I found a bunch of catalogs at home.
03:00.053 --> 03:05.016
[SPEAKER_00]: These were sort of recipe leaflets or not leaflets but booklets that were
03:06.397 --> 03:27.757
[SPEAKER_00]: Some reason we had acquired a number of those and I thought it would be a good idea to knock on my neighbor's door and start selling these recipe But some of I went at the age of 11 knocking doors and I managed to sell pretty much all of them It was sort of you know a few hours and I actually that may now explain why I am ended up in sales numbers sales
03:28.237 --> 03:36.444
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there are many moments, but those two I thought would be interesting to share, so they're thinking behind wine numbers, but also how did I go about becoming a saleswoman?
03:36.944 --> 03:37.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a salesman.
03:38.265 --> 03:47.452
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for people to be a natural salesman or saleswoman, you know, you have to have this innate wisdom and also love for sales.
03:47.472 --> 03:54.138
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm a natural bold, born saleswoman as well, because, and quite often, I find myself selling
03:54.818 --> 04:13.205
[SPEAKER_01]: things I love the most and and I see I see that in you as well I think when we love something when we're truly inspired about something it's we we like we tend to sell that as well and early in your career what's the experience is most shaped how you think about risk and capital and decision making today
04:14.148 --> 04:23.772
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, earlier in my career, um, yeah, so a few moments, you know, as I, I've always been very ambitious.
04:24.272 --> 04:28.854
[SPEAKER_00]: It's never enough what I'm doing, you know, and I always want to, my, my benchmark is myself.
04:29.094 --> 04:33.896
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I think that's, um, an era of some people may, they, they look at others, they compete with others.
04:34.337 --> 04:37.198
[SPEAKER_00]: I always want to be better than I, what I, what I did last time.
04:37.858 --> 04:45.841
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, and whether I'm and so it is it is ambition, but it's balanced ambition, you know, I'm only Comprehensive myself.
04:46.181 --> 04:47.041
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm only pushing myself.
04:47.101 --> 04:50.923
[SPEAKER_01]: I found why I feel very familiar with very good drawn to you.
04:51.023 --> 04:53.083
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the same thing.
04:53.263 --> 04:54.724
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't care about it.
04:54.784 --> 04:57.645
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's where I do today.
04:57.805 --> 04:58.225
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
04:58.245 --> 05:01.486
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where people fall into a trap because you're never going to be enough.
05:01.906 --> 05:02.466
[SPEAKER_00]: If you always
05:07.328 --> 05:09.070
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't know their life starting point.
05:09.090 --> 05:11.832
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know what they were given, what cards they were dealt with.
05:12.152 --> 05:13.433
[SPEAKER_00]: And also you don't know the field picture.
05:13.834 --> 05:15.315
[SPEAKER_00]: You just see what you see on the surface.
05:15.715 --> 05:18.277
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think, as I mentioned, I was very ambitious.
05:18.417 --> 05:30.487
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that one day, as I get promoted, I worked in asset management for most of my life, what most of my working life, what would happen when I reached the top?
05:30.828 --> 05:31.588
[SPEAKER_00]: What would happen then?
05:31.668 --> 05:33.830
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what happens for most people, men or women,
05:37.113 --> 05:37.733
[SPEAKER_00]: the top job.
05:38.293 --> 05:40.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you own the business, right?
05:40.754 --> 05:44.615
[SPEAKER_00]: So the CEO or the founder or the business, you can never take over their job.
05:46.455 --> 05:51.857
[SPEAKER_00]: You can obviously go out and sell up your own company and become the founder of your own company and we'll come obviously come to that in a minute.
05:52.237 --> 05:53.297
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can never take that job.
05:53.317 --> 05:54.457
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the alternative?
05:54.577 --> 05:55.918
[SPEAKER_00]: You can move to another company.
05:56.198 --> 05:58.458
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you can move to another company.
05:59.499 --> 06:00.879
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you may even get a better job
06:05.340 --> 06:06.301
[SPEAKER_00]: proving yourself at work.
06:06.321 --> 06:11.385
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll have to start all over again because you're going to be working with a new set of people with new processes.
06:12.206 --> 06:14.408
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to then re-establish your credibility.
06:14.728 --> 06:18.432
[SPEAKER_00]: So almost it feels like you plateau in your career and then you go down again.
06:19.292 --> 06:22.936
[SPEAKER_00]: The final shoot don't go down but in terms of your authority proving yourself.
06:23.376 --> 06:33.419
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in most cases, unless you go in with a huge equity partnership, you know, you put in money into a business or you're given that, you're starting not from the same level you started.
06:33.439 --> 06:37.041
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that has been on the back of my mind for a very long time.
06:38.201 --> 06:41.782
[SPEAKER_01]: And that sort of you knew that's going to happen one day.
06:41.802 --> 06:43.623
[SPEAKER_00]: So my problem was I didn't know.
06:44.223 --> 06:45.064
[SPEAKER_00]: what I would do.
06:45.084 --> 06:49.909
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, you know, I would love to work for myself and would love to, you know, create something.
06:50.389 --> 06:52.011
[SPEAKER_00]: But for many years, I had no idea.
06:52.051 --> 06:53.432
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tried a number of things.
06:53.452 --> 06:58.477
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would, I would, in my spare time, I decided I would learn about wine.
07:00.600 --> 07:02.962
[SPEAKER_00]: In my spare time, I thought I'd be a food connoisseur.
07:03.182 --> 07:06.466
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would build those and then, you know, they would take over my day job.
07:06.746 --> 07:07.727
[SPEAKER_00]: That never happened.
07:08.528 --> 07:14.035
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good at eating food, but forget to describe it because I'm too busy having a good time.
07:15.256 --> 07:17.739
[SPEAKER_00]: When I came to wine, I thought it was...
07:19.142 --> 07:22.523
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how transparent you want us to be on this podcast.
07:22.543 --> 07:23.264
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
07:23.324 --> 07:25.525
[SPEAKER_00]: But please, please edit out.
07:25.645 --> 07:34.789
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a lot of BS, when it comes to certain, I would include, I would throw art into that, too, when people describe art, certain types of art.
07:34.869 --> 07:36.990
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, wine is another one.
07:37.290 --> 07:42.332
[SPEAKER_00]: People use a lot of words, a lot of adjectives describe.
07:43.292 --> 07:44.694
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but you're like, what does that really mean?
07:44.714 --> 07:49.898
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so I thought that wasn't true to me, you know, I, I, I did a much worse and too much.
07:50.138 --> 07:53.821
[SPEAKER_00]: I did come across from my wine horses coming across more confidence.
07:53.841 --> 07:58.165
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I now go into restaurants or bars, people think I know a thing or two about wine.
07:58.545 --> 08:00.367
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not because I learned that much.
08:00.447 --> 08:02.289
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, of course, you learn about various things.
08:02.589 --> 08:05.071
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because I became more confident in talking about wine.
08:05.511 --> 08:08.194
[SPEAKER_00]: And that translated to, she must be an expert.
08:08.514 --> 08:09.375
[SPEAKER_00]: And that happens in,
08:09.955 --> 08:11.356
[SPEAKER_00]: Most industries around the world.
08:12.036 --> 08:12.436
[SPEAKER_00]: So sorry.
08:12.497 --> 08:14.057
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I've lost track of what question you are.
08:14.277 --> 08:17.579
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, it's about your career and what shaped you to think.
08:17.599 --> 08:29.285
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you know, I sort of decided I wanted to do all these things, but then really the pivotal point came a few years ago in both founding not so our capital, but also the women in finance organization.
08:30.026 --> 08:34.548
[SPEAKER_00]: I started three years ago not so our capital became that actually
08:35.075 --> 08:36.356
[SPEAKER_00]: rather than fundraising.
08:36.376 --> 08:38.617
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, I'm still in asset management.
08:39.017 --> 08:40.698
[SPEAKER_00]: My early part of career was in hedge funds.
08:41.239 --> 08:45.321
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, part seven years, last seven years, I've been working in private markets.
08:45.841 --> 08:47.803
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're helping the funding.
08:47.823 --> 08:52.405
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I exactly, but I've always done that, but working in house as an employee.
08:52.686 --> 08:53.246
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
08:53.686 --> 08:59.590
[SPEAKER_00]: But decided actually that if I set up my own fundraising platform, that would make more sense.
08:59.910 --> 08:59.950
[SPEAKER_00]: A.
09:00.645 --> 09:02.265
[SPEAKER_00]: You cut out a lot of bureaucracy.
09:02.465 --> 09:05.246
[SPEAKER_00]: If you've got an idea, you can put it into action a lot quickly.
09:06.226 --> 09:09.887
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't have layers and layers of meetings talking about nothing.
09:10.547 --> 09:12.968
[SPEAKER_00]: That happens unfortunately in lots of large organizations.
09:12.988 --> 09:15.828
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it's necessary, some of it's waste of time.
09:16.268 --> 09:20.849
[SPEAKER_00]: But everybody sort of goes along with that corporate style of working.
09:21.289 --> 09:24.230
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing is that you get a chance to represent
09:24.690 --> 09:37.386
[SPEAKER_00]: strategies that you truly believe in, that you truly believe in either I am impactful or actually are a good diversifier from a portfolio allocation point of view in investor portfolios.
09:37.606 --> 09:41.090
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you work for somebody you only have one product or two products to sell.
09:41.711 --> 09:51.374
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you work for yourself, you can pick and choose what you think, based on the current market environment, or what you think will be a good product to take to the market.
09:51.835 --> 09:54.596
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of, and then on the women in finance front.
09:54.616 --> 09:57.076
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been very beneficial for the investors as well.
09:57.337 --> 09:57.837
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
09:57.917 --> 10:00.378
[SPEAKER_00]: I would think so because you're not then biased to one product.
10:00.938 --> 10:03.559
[SPEAKER_00]: You're almost independent because you're picking and choosing who to work with.
10:03.999 --> 10:06.960
[SPEAKER_00]: And just maybe one final point on the women in finance is that,
10:07.601 --> 10:17.332
[SPEAKER_00]: There are many communities out there and so when I set this community up three years ago, it was purely to bring senior women, so you know, there are a lot of communities out there that either
10:18.080 --> 10:24.345
[SPEAKER_00]: are quite niche so you must work in private equity or real estate or hedge funds to be part of it.
10:25.366 --> 10:32.851
[SPEAKER_00]: So people who are out slightly outside of that don't get to be part of these communities and some of these communities are for all ages.
10:33.312 --> 10:42.699
[SPEAKER_00]: What I wanted to create was a community for senior women and there are several reasons that I'm sure will show them as we as we go through this and across the financial ecosystem because
10:43.339 --> 10:57.976
[SPEAKER_00]: It is an ecosystem, meaning companies do not operate in silos, so you know, banks work with insurance, companies insurance and companies are allocating to asset management firms, there's brokerage firms, so they all are interconnected to why keep them in separate silos.
10:58.016 --> 10:59.318
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not connect them?
10:59.578 --> 11:01.439
[SPEAKER_00]: and why not bring them all together?
11:01.459 --> 11:04.081
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyways, I'll stop at that and then I'm sure we'll revisit that.
11:04.641 --> 11:13.406
[SPEAKER_01]: Before finding Nassurah capital, what principles were you already guiding your approach to leadership and the finance world?
11:13.866 --> 11:26.233
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm don't know if I would call it principles, but I would say that in the last probably five years of my career before setting up Nassurah capital, I was asking a lot of wise.
11:26.879 --> 11:27.079
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
11:27.219 --> 11:30.541
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, why are we doing it this way or why do we have extra?
11:30.981 --> 11:51.714
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do we have to go through five layers of approval and and I've been working for a lot of mid-tier companies So not the largest companies are where you understand why things happen a certain way So I think I was asking a lot of wise and I think that why let me to think actually maybe I do have a solution maybe Maybe there is another way there is another way and the other way is by actually
11:53.215 --> 11:59.959
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, sort of, extricating yourself from the, from that infrastructure form, that system and creating your own system.
12:01.860 --> 12:07.383
[SPEAKER_01]: So when evaluating the fundraising opportunities, what signals do you prioritize most?
12:07.795 --> 12:09.417
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so a number of things actually.
12:09.557 --> 12:18.807
[SPEAKER_00]: So obviously, I'm thinking from fundraising point of view, but I'm also thinking it from the investor side because they are the ones investing, IE allocating to these strategies.
12:19.387 --> 12:23.171
[SPEAKER_00]: And I work with generally alternatives strategies.
12:23.191 --> 12:26.535
[SPEAKER_00]: So these could be anything from hedge funds to private markets.
12:26.995 --> 12:27.695
[SPEAKER_00]: they could be put.
12:27.875 --> 12:35.696
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole array of private debt strategies from infrastructure directly lending all the way to the liquid and or microfinance trade finance.
12:36.097 --> 12:50.659
[SPEAKER_00]: Now a number of things really because these are not the more established names where people have heard even if you're not in the finance world you may have heard of Black Rock or the you know the legal in general or the M&G that the large names.
12:51.639 --> 12:55.220
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we're really evaluating a number of factors you know the track record
12:57.040 --> 13:23.735
[SPEAKER_00]: The founders background, what is their expertise in the strategy they've put together because ultimately they kind of go deeper You have to go a lot deeper because they are not the ones facing the investor It is your reputation and it is the investor that you're thinking of them That they are actually allocating to the strategies that are resilient that have a really good process in place So you're looking at a number of dynamics as I say from
13:24.095 --> 13:27.498
[SPEAKER_00]: track record, found his background, you know, just the founder of any skin in the game.
13:27.819 --> 13:46.016
[SPEAKER_00]: They say they can generate 3x on this strategy, have they actually put any of their own capital, have they put their money where their mouth is, you know, what kind of a team have they hired, what are their backgrounds, what compliance procedures do they have in place, what risk manager oversight do they have,
13:46.696 --> 13:53.000
[SPEAKER_00]: when we limit some breached or transactions on the private side don't go through the full underwriting process.
13:53.300 --> 14:07.109
[SPEAKER_00]: So you look at all of that with a fine tooth comb to make sure because you don't want to be associated with a firm where risk is poor, there might be vulnerable to fraud.
14:08.770 --> 14:13.813
[SPEAKER_00]: These are quite key because they can be, because of social media blowing up very quickly.
14:14.533 --> 14:26.656
[SPEAKER_00]: And once investors are banned, they certainly won't be looking at that strategy, but they certainly won't be, would not want to work with the individual who's representing, you know, a particular strategy, a particular manager.
14:27.016 --> 14:32.818
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are the sort of things, obviously, it goes a lot deeper, but just as high level, those are the things that you would look at.
14:33.213 --> 14:36.656
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, more on the safe side, to fill in the safe side.
14:36.696 --> 14:44.241
[SPEAKER_01]: And over the years, what patterns have you observed in companies or leaders that consistently create a long-term value?
14:44.901 --> 15:01.113
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so let me give you a fundraising view because many businesses, investment businesses fell for a number of reasons, bad performance, not being able to generate enough AUM as it's on the management.
15:02.674 --> 15:09.316
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't I focus on two, which is fundraising and investments, because there I have the most insight.
15:09.336 --> 15:13.338
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you have complied speeches, cyber security speeches, the list goes on and on.
15:13.618 --> 15:21.181
[SPEAKER_00]: But those two, from a fundraising perspective, I see the managers who understand the fundraising cycle have patience.
15:23.616 --> 15:24.977
[SPEAKER_00]: have realistic goals.
15:25.578 --> 15:31.284
[SPEAKER_00]: Are the ones that actually are in, you know, make it to the long run and I'll give you one quick example.
15:31.864 --> 15:32.545
[SPEAKER_00]: That can wait.
15:32.926 --> 15:36.910
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, manager, you know, has an undermelicing expectation today.
15:36.930 --> 15:37.470
[SPEAKER_00]: There are 200 million.
15:38.476 --> 15:41.079
[SPEAKER_00]: they want to go to five, let's say a billion.
15:41.820 --> 15:43.962
[SPEAKER_00]: Within 12 months, we'll be raising a billion.
15:44.703 --> 15:49.089
[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't really thought out the trajectory of how they're going to get to that.
15:49.449 --> 15:56.898
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have to say having unrealistic expectations of themselves and of the team, realizing that this is a long-term game.
15:57.718 --> 16:14.222
[SPEAKER_00]: many of these mandates are institutional and when investors commit, they commit for the long-term and having that understanding and having that patience and having those realistic expectations to when they need to present to the board as to how quickly and how soon they can raise the capital.
16:14.762 --> 16:19.924
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I would like or when I say like but also what I've seen and found as
16:21.404 --> 16:41.074
[SPEAKER_00]: those are actually truly listen, you know, because not every founder or leader has expertise across all business areas, but being a good listener, you know, if your team is telling you actually this will take longer or this is what's missing in us to actually be able to market this particular strategy so that, so some of those things are important.
16:41.354 --> 16:47.797
[SPEAKER_00]: And just maybe a quick point on the investing side, having conviction and believing in a system
16:50.374 --> 16:52.515
[SPEAKER_00]: There are warning signals to abandon it.
16:52.615 --> 16:59.560
[SPEAKER_00]: So one example would be I work for a hedge fund, back in the day, don't want to name them, but they were systematic, effects macro.
17:01.441 --> 17:06.464
[SPEAKER_00]: And they started to use a lot of discretionary overlay when markets became volatile.
17:07.805 --> 17:17.390
[SPEAKER_00]: And they started to lose a lot of credibility because the strategy was marketed as systematic, haunt driven, yet there was a lot of human overlay.
17:17.650 --> 17:20.012
[SPEAKER_00]: Now in this case, the human overlay was justified.
17:20.512 --> 17:31.016
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the portfolio was losing significant chunks of money, but the strategy was quite haphazard rather than having a full in-depth analysis of the systematic models.
17:31.356 --> 17:36.418
[SPEAKER_00]: And then saying actually we may change the ratio of systematic versus discretionary.
17:36.918 --> 17:37.478
[SPEAKER_00]: It was done.
17:38.419 --> 17:46.742
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there were many other factors that led to the downfall of this particular company, but one of them was this fight between discretionary overlay and systematic models.
17:47.562 --> 17:47.782
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:49.043 --> 17:59.385
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I was going to actually ask what's the most common mistake you see in the founders and or investors make when raising and allocating capital.
18:00.080 --> 18:12.904
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I feel like I've now covered this answer in the previous one, but as I say, you know, not having patience and unrealistic expectations of themselves and all the people that are working with them.
18:12.924 --> 18:20.806
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, you know, I would say there's many, but those two from a fundraising point of view are probably I would say the key ones.
18:22.126 --> 18:33.714
[SPEAKER_01]: And to come to the topic, to change the topic of it, woman in finance platform, which are highly interested in alongside your company, you also found that the woman in finance platform.
18:34.234 --> 18:38.077
[SPEAKER_01]: What problem were you trying to solve in this platform?
18:38.137 --> 18:40.358
[SPEAKER_01]: Many, many problems, many problems.
18:41.219 --> 18:44.681
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's senior women, and you're in the finance.
18:45.262 --> 18:47.423
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I see, it's like,
18:47.903 --> 19:14.550
[SPEAKER_00]: you're bringing all the general, you know, women in the finance world together together, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
19:15.170 --> 19:28.633
[SPEAKER_00]: if you don't look at the core problems, and if you don't look at it more holistically, because not, I mean, men are included too, you know, men also need support and guidance throughout their careers, but it's not one fixed solution.
19:28.814 --> 19:31.614
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we'll just promote more women, so they will lead companies.
19:31.914 --> 19:33.015
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what is preventing them?
19:33.055 --> 19:35.775
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's, let's focus on what's preventing them.
19:35.895 --> 19:38.516
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, is it that they in the past have not had
19:39.397 --> 19:40.598
[SPEAKER_00]: good work life balance.
19:41.279 --> 19:45.825
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes that obviously contradicts with running a company because you can't really have a work life balance.
19:46.506 --> 19:48.568
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it that they lack a bit of confidence?
19:48.588 --> 19:51.772
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, not every woman lacks the same skill, right?
19:52.253 --> 19:53.354
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it lacks confidence?
19:53.514 --> 19:54.856
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it that she's not very visible?
19:54.996 --> 19:57.760
[SPEAKER_00]: Does she not put a hand up when there's a public speaking opportunity?
19:58.180 --> 20:01.402
[SPEAKER_00]: whether it's recording a podcast or whether it's introverts.
20:01.442 --> 20:07.265
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and men are introvert too, but you know, you could still, these are learnable skills.
20:07.485 --> 20:09.246
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what is my brand?
20:09.286 --> 20:16.029
[SPEAKER_00]: When people, when people ask a new chabra, is she defined by the last company she worked for or does she have her own brand?
20:16.490 --> 20:22.853
[SPEAKER_00]: My own brand I would say is I found in Nasserak Capital, even if I didn't found a company, we all have a brand.
20:23.113 --> 20:24.855
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we all have an expertise.
20:24.875 --> 20:26.897
[SPEAKER_00]: We all and do we focus on that?
20:26.997 --> 20:36.727
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like women more than men don't focus on that Are do not put their hands up for public speaking not necessarily the best they go I think we have a hard time understanding our values.
20:36.827 --> 20:44.354
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and understanding our value and also our general like experience our worth
20:45.135 --> 20:47.697
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm putting it out there, I think we're having a done talk.
20:47.737 --> 21:06.488
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also because if we look at historical structures, you know, men went out to work and women stayed at home and as that dynamic changes of course it brings out a lot of adjustments in society in the workplace and it's not to really blame men because you know men are just being men.
21:07.028 --> 21:18.726
[SPEAKER_00]: they are now obviously making room for women, but women see working in the industry whether it's finance or another industry differently, they present themselves differently.
21:19.182 --> 21:21.403
[SPEAKER_00]: and how do we integrate the two?
21:21.463 --> 21:22.584
[SPEAKER_01]: How do they end?
21:22.624 --> 21:25.285
[SPEAKER_01]: Can it also be that we, our system is different.
21:25.305 --> 21:27.546
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like our principles and the way we...
21:27.566 --> 21:28.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:28.587 --> 21:29.147
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:29.167 --> 21:30.428
[SPEAKER_01]: Approach to things.
21:30.548 --> 21:31.028
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:31.048 --> 21:32.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more intuitive.
21:32.649 --> 21:33.169
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different.
21:33.209 --> 21:38.332
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that can be another reason because we can't put those into systems and words.
21:39.132 --> 21:41.994
[SPEAKER_01]: It will be very hard for men to understand that.
21:42.094 --> 21:42.555
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:42.735 --> 21:44.796
[SPEAKER_00]: And women are more teen players.
21:44.836 --> 21:47.058
[SPEAKER_00]: They want to sort of because they are not yours.
21:47.178 --> 21:47.598
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
21:47.618 --> 21:49.640
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas men are hunter-gatherers.
21:49.660 --> 21:53.442
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm going out, you know, and I take higher risks and we're more and more.
21:53.462 --> 21:54.343
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
21:54.463 --> 21:55.704
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a combination of things.
21:55.724 --> 21:58.586
[SPEAKER_00]: So really the part for my setup is to bring women together.
21:59.106 --> 22:09.269
[SPEAKER_00]: to pick and choose what it is that they need to improve, or enhance, or get better at, is it, as it's a negotiation skills, that's a third one, we focus a lot on that.
22:10.009 --> 22:15.950
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're in that meeting room, having that performance review, are you able to ask for that pair of eyes?
22:16.030 --> 22:21.632
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you able to articulate in an asserting way rather than saying, it's okay, I'm happy with what I have,
22:22.893 --> 22:23.753
[SPEAKER_00]: just like men do it.
22:23.774 --> 22:28.978
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we do not need to become like men, but we do need to understand how the workplace operates, right?
22:29.779 --> 22:32.781
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still a majorly dominated by men.
22:33.522 --> 22:37.726
[SPEAKER_00]: And in many cases, most of us may have mailed bosses if we're working for others.
22:38.766 --> 22:41.269
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's also good to understand things from their perspective.
22:41.289 --> 22:47.934
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not good enough to say, I'm a woman making allowance for me because we want to work with them, not against them.
22:48.355 --> 22:50.697
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to work in the industry with them, not against them.
22:50.717 --> 22:54.580
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I... And we would like, and we want to build a bridge.
22:55.022 --> 22:55.543
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
22:55.943 --> 22:56.704
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
22:56.885 --> 22:59.027
[SPEAKER_00]: We certainly shouldn't be pushing the man out of the industry.
22:59.067 --> 23:01.811
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise we'll be doing the all the childcare and all the work, right?
23:02.071 --> 23:02.972
[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't want that.
23:03.213 --> 23:06.256
[SPEAKER_00]: We want a good, we want to get good mix of the two, right?
23:06.277 --> 23:10.542
[SPEAKER_00]: So coming back to that, so the platform looks at a personal growth, personal development.
23:10.782 --> 23:12.443
[SPEAKER_00]: and then professional growth.
23:12.643 --> 23:14.303
[SPEAKER_00]: Personally, we talked about all of these things.
23:14.463 --> 23:16.704
[SPEAKER_00]: To add to that is personal finance.
23:16.724 --> 23:21.406
[SPEAKER_00]: We're out living men by at least five years on an average.
23:22.346 --> 23:25.207
[SPEAKER_00]: We also need to build better bonds with other women.
23:25.667 --> 23:27.688
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have introduced a women in sports series.
23:28.108 --> 23:29.649
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is all on the personal side.
23:29.689 --> 23:34.270
[SPEAKER_00]: Now on the professional side, do you need to enhance your knowledge on ESGN impact?
23:34.310 --> 23:36.331
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it geopolitics, is it macroeconomics?
23:36.771 --> 23:43.575
[SPEAKER_00]: is it private markets investing or fundraising and there are a plethora of topics within that sphere.
23:43.755 --> 23:58.064
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this platform really offers you both educational content and personal growth content and women come together over these one of these areas and build a strong network because network is your network.
23:58.424 --> 24:02.772
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and it's quite key that we, and you built an amazing network.
24:03.173 --> 24:03.693
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
24:03.914 --> 24:04.515
[SPEAKER_00]: I think so.
24:04.555 --> 24:05.697
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you do.
24:05.757 --> 24:10.125
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you see communities and network shaping the next generation of financial leaders?
24:10.740 --> 24:35.494
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, interesting because I feel like we're at a bit more of a level of pale plane field within that works and communities because networks often open doors to opportunities, you know, because when you meet people is when you gain knowledge and information opportunities, it could be a, it could be a new business idea, it could be a new opportunity to work in a certain far.
24:35.514 --> 24:36.675
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you get in the front post.
24:36.915 --> 24:38.096
[SPEAKER_00]: different perspectives.
24:38.216 --> 24:42.578
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, it could be online communities, it could be social media.
24:43.219 --> 24:45.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's a lot more accessible, right?
24:45.780 --> 24:52.364
[SPEAKER_00]: You could have, you could be part of online communities, you could be part of physical communities such as women and finance, and there's obviously many others.
24:52.864 --> 25:01.769
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is an advantage, the younger generation, compared to some of the older generations, both men and women, because of access to information.
25:02.296 --> 25:12.968
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's going to be it's kind of like when I when I look at what's happening in the world with AI and everything Yes, and you stop I think that's going to be the core of our you know daily routine.
25:13.048 --> 25:18.494
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's going to like be just networking and being with humans and spending more time at Would that be great.
25:18.514 --> 25:19.275
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would be great.
25:19.435 --> 25:19.996
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would be great.
25:20.036 --> 25:30.940
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I mean, it feels like we've got kind of got a little bit the other way with a lot of the Gen Zs and the general for spending a lot more time on digital technology and not really interacting with with other humans.
25:31.380 --> 25:35.181
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be great if we can switch up because humans need that.
25:35.201 --> 25:36.702
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what humans were designed to do.
25:36.902 --> 25:42.964
[SPEAKER_01]: And when the rest of the stuff is done by Robert Robertson, you know, yeah, we'll have more time to, you know.
25:43.573 --> 25:46.836
[SPEAKER_00]: to build, yeah, so yeah, be together and build a relationship.
25:46.916 --> 25:47.076
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:47.196 --> 25:53.081
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a question I usually ask to anyone in the finance world or the leadership.
25:53.141 --> 25:57.485
[SPEAKER_01]: What belief about finance and leadership have you personally outgrown over the years?
25:57.925 --> 25:59.346
[SPEAKER_00]: Have I outgrown?
25:59.366 --> 26:01.128
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that.
26:03.363 --> 26:28.215
[SPEAKER_00]: If a structure is in place, it must have been carefully thought through an investment process or a structure, whether it's compliance or a risk management, be curious and be questioned it because you'll find that sometimes these structures can be outdated and so don't be afraid to ask the why, you know, why are we doing something this way?
26:28.816 --> 26:37.992
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes it's a very good answer and if it sounds plausible and you've checked and that's great, but if it's not always asked the why because it may be a better
26:38.535 --> 27:02.168
[SPEAKER_00]: wait or more efficient way to do something and that's one thing I think about the Gen Z they may not have all the answers because obviously they still have a lot of learning to do an experience to gain but they are more likely to ask the why compared to the older generations and that's a great quality that we should not shut down you know ask the why I agree I agree I let them ask the why yeah yeah yeah yeah I think we're
27:03.108 --> 27:12.312
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we move away from all the markets and investment decisions, what helps you reset your own perspective, how do you reset yourself?
27:12.452 --> 27:17.915
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, actually, having some alone time and it doesn't even matter where the alone time is.
27:18.475 --> 27:22.518
[SPEAKER_00]: It's either a long shower, it could be a walk along the river near my house.
27:23.338 --> 27:24.419
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a face.
27:25.019 --> 27:34.206
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sorry, just away from everyone because I find like because, you know, when you're fundraising, you're constantly around people, you're obviously going up to pitch.
27:34.586 --> 27:40.690
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're women in part of the women in finance, it's a network so you're constantly meeting, you know, new people.
27:41.310 --> 27:43.712
[SPEAKER_00]: You're either organizing events, attending events.
27:44.452 --> 27:46.054
[SPEAKER_00]: and then when you're home, you're with family.
27:46.395 --> 27:48.417
[SPEAKER_00]: In my case, my 12-year-old and my husband.
27:49.138 --> 27:51.121
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, actually my mother.
27:51.241 --> 27:52.963
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's a lot of people around me.
27:52.983 --> 27:58.610
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I just think having the space for just to be on your own even for short bursts of time.
27:58.710 --> 28:00.292
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I find that quite therapeutic.
28:01.053 --> 28:01.833
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm quite relax.
28:01.913 --> 28:02.354
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
28:02.374 --> 28:03.294
[SPEAKER_01]: I fully.
28:03.354 --> 28:08.415
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't sometimes, it doesn't even matter where I am because I'm on my own in my head and that's full I need.
28:08.455 --> 28:09.836
[SPEAKER_01]: Just quietness.
28:10.116 --> 28:10.396
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:11.056 --> 28:17.238
[SPEAKER_01]: And what lesson from your career in finance have shaped you your approach to life beyond business?
28:18.218 --> 28:18.558
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:19.659 --> 28:20.239
[SPEAKER_00]: Speak up.
28:21.104 --> 28:22.405
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
28:22.605 --> 28:23.565
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid.
28:24.566 --> 28:43.894
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be afraid because I have had a number of times both that work which I then obviously the learnings from that I applied my personal life is that I had a lot to say in several scenarios and maybe I can give you a small example because it's always nice to tell a little story and going home and internalizing that stress.
28:44.454 --> 28:46.695
[SPEAKER_00]: and actually that's not good for your health, right?
28:46.735 --> 28:54.819
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're like, well, I'm fully capable of expressing my view, I just didn't, because I'm worried too much about the fallout, the consequence.
28:55.220 --> 28:59.402
[SPEAKER_00]: If I respond to this scenario, what will be the fallout?
28:59.442 --> 29:01.563
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not really my responsibility.
29:01.883 --> 29:08.086
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I've learned to speak up, obviously, you don't have to be confrontation,
29:09.868 --> 29:16.720
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be a situation where you're looking to fight, but you can't put your point across.
29:17.421 --> 29:20.286
[SPEAKER_00]: Straight out, but you can put it across very diplomatically.
29:20.547 --> 29:22.230
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't necessarily, but...
29:23.446 --> 29:27.449
[SPEAKER_00]: how the other side or the other person takes it is not your responsibility.
29:27.469 --> 29:29.931
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's taken me some time to learn that.
29:29.951 --> 29:32.753
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what's the same reaction is not my responsibility.
29:32.773 --> 29:33.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very action.
29:33.654 --> 29:43.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I suppose a story is, it's been so many years that it's actually okay to share is that I work for a manager, an asset management.
29:43.641 --> 29:47.004
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just put it a sort of a broad effects management firm in London.
29:47.064 --> 29:51.508
[SPEAKER_00]: I worked for two, so that way you know, their name doesn't need to be disclosed.
29:52.489 --> 29:54.611
[SPEAKER_00]: And I bought a very, very big deal to the table.
29:54.992 --> 29:57.814
[SPEAKER_00]: I've probably haven't talked about this in public ever before.
29:58.395 --> 30:05.681
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, by laterally, within individuals, I bought a really, really big deal to the table from a French client.
30:06.602 --> 30:09.145
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had been involved in the whole process from
30:09.685 --> 30:35.549
[SPEAKER_00]: the initial contact with the several meetings through submitting tender documents to win this mandate, but when everything was sort of signed and dusted as my boss at the time was walking out and I was walking out for a lunch with this investor to just say thank you to them and I was told not to join the lunch and I was told not to join the lunch it's because I didn't speak any French.
30:38.282 --> 30:46.552
[SPEAKER_00]: And my boss at the time did speak French, so he thought for a relationship building it would be useful that only he is at the lunch.
30:46.693 --> 30:53.982
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously he did that because he wanted to prove to senior management that he was responsible for bringing that client over the line.
30:54.502 --> 31:00.326
[SPEAKER_00]: But actually, in that moment, I should have said, actually, I'm going to admit it for the last two years that I worked on this relationship.
31:00.986 --> 31:20.057
[SPEAKER_00]: We did not need to speak in English, sorry in French, we spoke in English, and the tender was done in French, but to do the tender, one of my very close friends from the industry did, so not only did I run the relationship in English, I then found a French individual to do the tender, so I had, of course, you're the boss, I get it, and you
31:20.598 --> 31:22.199
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, helped and supported the deal.
31:22.579 --> 31:30.004
[SPEAKER_00]: But to then, you know, in that manner, to exclude me, so that aesthetically it looks like you're taking it.
31:30.384 --> 31:34.366
[SPEAKER_00]: And I internalized a lot of that stress over the, over the next several months.
31:34.727 --> 31:40.310
[SPEAKER_00]: And that wasn't good for my health because what could have happened if I had said, well, I had presented my reasons.
31:40.690 --> 31:48.660
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the outcome would have been similar but actually I would have felt much better because I would have made known my values and what I thought of that.
31:48.940 --> 31:58.872
[SPEAKER_00]: So that actually has been a huge that lesson has taught me a lot and that I think had gave me the fire and the belly to set up the community.
31:59.172 --> 32:13.962
[SPEAKER_00]: because they didn't want anyone to suffer and I hear women all the time investing in fundraising where they have been sideline for promotions for bonuses in some cases because the bosses and secure no it couldn't be a female as well in my case it just happens to be a man.
32:14.482 --> 32:29.091
[SPEAKER_00]: but the ability to speak up, the ability to feel like you can do it, you're enough, you know, those sort of things gave me the far and the belly to be like, I would never want that to happen to me again, and I would never want anyone to, you know, go through that.
32:29.571 --> 32:37.316
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just feel like when you have a community where you can discuss these things and if you're, and teach women and teach them on their worth.
32:37.576 --> 32:41.018
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, and it's relatable, you know, they can relate to it, they don't feel alone
32:44.408 --> 32:47.702
[SPEAKER_00]: to be like, well, I'm not going to be putting up with that sort of behavior.
32:47.742 --> 32:49.369
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love it, I love it.
32:50.180 --> 33:03.310
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and a great community of women, like I've gotten to the last event, one of the last events in powerful and brilliant women.
33:03.330 --> 33:04.771
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you for coming to that event.
33:04.791 --> 33:07.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, women, they're just absolutely amazing.
33:08.333 --> 33:16.079
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you currently learning in finance philosophy or leadership approach?
33:16.592 --> 33:16.912
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:17.053 --> 33:19.055
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we never stop learning.
33:19.115 --> 33:20.657
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that we're always learning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for now, my focus is actually other than obviously running the business day to day and you know, finding sponsors and new content and mountain.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and enhancing my marketing skills because even though I have people working with me, you feel like you have to start learning about skills, you didn't think you needed, you know, because you can't really work with others or manage others if you don't understand what sort of work you're doing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think a core learning focus for me at the moment is leadership skills.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, leadership skills evolve, you know, when you're working in a large team within infrastructure, managing people versus running your own company and managing people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a constant learning curve also because the generation above me who I've worked with for most of my life are not the generation I'm now managing which are below me and younger and the way they come to work and their expectations and how they want to work.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm still navigating that because there's a bit of a gap, you know, how I worked and how they were and trying to sort of meet halfway because, you know, we have our, you know, we all have our own way of working, we want to make room for others, but I think it's almost sort of a balancing act, you know, where you meet halfway, but also being a clear and transparent and genuine communicator.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, actually sets the seeds for good leadership.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so leadership really I would say is my call.
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[SPEAKER_00]: co-scale that I can tell proof.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can tell and I can see.
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[SPEAKER_01]: As we are moving towards the end of our podcast, thank you very much for joining me, Anna.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I really appreciate you coming here being here with us and love everything you shared.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have one final question.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What advice would you give to young women who are aspiring to build careers in finance?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then to finance in general.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There is no such crazy idea.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just do it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Don't overprepared.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Don't overplan.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Don't wait till you're perfect at whatever skill you're looking to build.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just go for it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Go for it and you'll figure it out because sometimes we wait too much.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know, for example, I'll give you an example.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who wants to launch a business in my in my network.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't launched it yet because their marketing is not on point.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They need to put a presentation back together.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They need more marketing collateral.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They need to rehearse their pitch.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What are they waiting for?
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
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[SPEAKER_00]: That will all come because you put yourself up.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, step up just, just start.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you might be rusty in the beginning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's for business owners, but also for the next promotion or the next job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think I need to spend another year in this job perfecting my, I don't know, whatever skill that is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Compliance, legal, it doesn't matter.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But why don't you put your hand up for that role because let's think about it, mentor it all the time and then you learn on the job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: is expecting, even though they say tense things on a CV that you have.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's an ideal wishlist.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you have five or six of them, put your hand up because men are doing it all the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Put your hand up and get that job and then you'll go for it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Be brave.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Be brave ladies.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening, thank you for watching, if you like our videos, click on like and subscribe to our YouTube channel or Spotify accounts, thank you, thank you, and I'll see you in the next episode.
