Episode 2b. Negotiation with Reverend Dr. Christopher Carter

I'm excited to welcome Reverend Dr. Christopher Carter—someone who's been both teacher and guide for me in learning how to breathe into spiritual formation. 

I met Christopher in late 2019 at a Racial Resilience Workshop he co-led with Seth Schoen. What struck me immediately was how they held something almost impossible in our polarized times: seeing racism's deep complexities and harms while never dehumanizing anyone. They offered a rare path through troubled times rooted in love and grace.

Christopher and Seth became key teachers in navigating not just racial dynamics, but my own struggles with my Lutheran lineage. They provided spiritual guidance when I needed it most (their role in my spiritual development is in a text-only post on the negotiating reality substack page entitled: Music: My Anchor to Sacred Love).

But Christopher isn't just a gifted spiritual guide—he's the perfect guest for today's negotiation because of his scholarly depth. He's Associate Professor of Theology, Ecology, and Race at Methodist Theological School in Ohio, wrestling with pressing questions: How do we understand our relationship with Earth? How do we reckon with ongoing racism? How do we create spaces for genuine healing?

His work weaves contemplation and action, spirituality and justice. His book The Spirit of Soul Food explores connections between what we eat, how we live, and liberation we seek—making a compelling case for Black Veganism with excellent recipes to boot. He also serves as Lead Pastor at The Loft, sits on Farm Forward's board, working to end factory farming AND is co-host of the Progressive Christian Podcast. 

And, as a bit of foreshadowing, Christopher and I went broad and deep. Christopher immediately connects my "Life Breathing Together" story to his son's traumatic birth—that moment when breath meant life itself—and we then go deeper into why we're all literally breathing the same air and dealing with the same consequences. We explore how the ancient Babylonian myth of redemptive violence pops up in "might makes right" thinking, from capitalism to our climate crisis, and why we collectively in the U.S. have been drawn to become super apex predators who hoard rather than balance with life as in healthy ecosystems. But this isn't just diagnosis—we map out practical frameworks for refusing false binaries, practicing hope as an active discipline rather than passive waiting, playing with and fleshing out three ways of knowing, and learning to flow between fusing fully with our experiences and de-fusing from them to be able to observe oneself and the situation. It's a conversation about courage, community healing, and what it actually takes to breathe together shifting towards both/and grace.

Three books Christopher Recommended:

Richard Rohr’s Falling Upward

Arline T Geronimus’s Weathering: The Extraordinary Stress of Ordinary Life in an Unjust Society

Jason Stanley’s How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them