Episode 153 - Avatar: Fire and Ash

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Welcome to the Note Paul team.
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Hello, and welcome to another episode of Missing Frames. This
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is the podcast where we watch all the movies we
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should have seen by this point in our lives. I'm
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your host, Johnny Stridge, and don't adjust your dial. We
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are we're recording this on the road. We are a
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gorilla podcasting team. We're professionals, and we know what we're doing.
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And we're on our way to see the new Avatar film.
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And when I say we, I mean myself and my
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lovely wife Sarah, who is joining me for I guess
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this is possibly the last episode of twenty twenty five.
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I thought eysweight Schett would be the last episode of
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twenty twenty five. Thanks for me, this is your last
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episode of twenty twenty five.
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I feel like the only episode we did together this
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year was we did Beetlejuice?
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Was that this year we did? I know we did
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them while you were sleeping in February?
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So how was this year? This whole year has been
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a fever dream?
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Yeah, I thought that was last year as well. It
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almost is last year because it is almost the new year.
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But I figured we should while we're driving record an episode.
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We so rarely with.
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Children and animals running wild in our home, we so
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rarely get to do missing frames episodes.
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And what better, I mean, what better film?
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There is no film more deserving, more epic, no filmmaker
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more deserving and incredible than James Cameron. So we are
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We're just gonna do the whole Avatar trilogy. It's a
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trilogy now so far, even though we have many more
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films coming.
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So Avatar here we go. How are you feeling.
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I feel good. I'm excited to see it. I feel
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like I've been waiting a long time.
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Yeah, we're going to go see it at the Mall
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of Georgia Imax, which is our true Imax theater in Georgia,
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at least the closest one to us. I think there
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are a couple. But we're seeing it in Imax three D,
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which is the same theater where we saw The Way
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of Water. We're seeing it with the same people we
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saw The Way of Water with, which also, by the way, I.
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Thought that was twenty twenty three. That was twenty twenty two,
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So that was three years ago.
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I'm telling you we've lost a year ever since COVID.
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I feel like it's time is just not making sense.
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Yeah, But as far as I guess, feelings about the
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Avatar movie franchise in general, starting with the first film
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two thousand and nine. Do you remember seeing Avatar? Do
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you remember how you felt about it?
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Yeah? I mean I remember being like totally enamored with it.
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It was just gorgeous looking. It was like something I
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had not seen before. It was a movie I could
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go see with my parents, which is fun, and we
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all and it's like everyone enjoyed that movie. It didn't
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matter your age, your background, like if even were a
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movie person or not. I feel like everyone was obsessed.
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With all all the demographs.
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Yeah, like it was really cool. I saw it a
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couple times again. I saw it with like friends. I
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saw it with you know, my parents, probably twice. I
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remember my parents were like really obsessed with three This
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was like three D was beginning and everyone was like,
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oh my gosh, we have to see it in three D. Yeah,
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but not only that, it was the three D was
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like in its infancy, but like.
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This was James Cameron, yes, and he was like, I've
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developed a new technologies, new ways of perceiving.
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Three So it was on another level.
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It was like, oh, everything that this new technology is
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capable of, We're going to see because all the money
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has been invested in making this film happen with like
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the biggest filmmaker in the world.
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So on many levels it was like, oh.
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There's a lot of there's a lot of a lot
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of excitement around the film. On top of it being
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in three D, it was like the ultimate display.
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Of three D.
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Yeah, it was serious business for sure.
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Yeah, and it was crazy how you know, people joke
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now like you never bet against James Cameron. And Titanic
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was the film he'd completed before Avat, so it had
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been that was ninety seven, so the Avatar was two
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thousand and nine, which meant this had been like it'd
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been twelve years since his last movie. And the whole
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thing was like, oh, this is a major investment, Like
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it cost so much money, it's such a major risk.
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Who knows, it may just completely bomb. And then it
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became bigger.
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Than Titanic and became, you know, the new greatest or
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the new biggest movie of all time. And I remember
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seeing it at it's not early screening.
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I was in film school.
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I saw it in Virginia Beach, and I remember being
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really blown away by it and just very immersed, very
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excited to have a new James Cameron film, to see
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that he was going back to sci fi after tight
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like you know, Titanic was a period p.
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And True Lies I think was the film before that.
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So it felt like, oh, finally returning to his nerdy roots,
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and I really enjoyed it. And it was only in
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retrospect watching Avatar at home that I had the experience
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that I think a lot of people have had with Avatar,
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which is suddenly like, oh, wait a second, is this
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movie that great?
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Or were we all just really really.
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Excited about what he was accomplishing on a technological level.
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Yeah, I think I've experienced that a little bit too,
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although I still enjoy it to date.
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I think a lot a couple of things happened, like
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because it got so big a lot of people.
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Of course, anything that's going to get big and.
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Be popular is going to get a backlash, So it
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had that backlash. That backlash was amplified by the fact that, oh,
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this is now the most profitable film of all time,
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and then there was all this talk about like, well,
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this is just the first of many films that James
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Cameron went to make and then The Way of Water
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the sequel, was something he kept talking about and he
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talked about it, and he talked about it, and he
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talked about it for years and years and years and years.
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So it gave audiences plenty of time to start to turn.
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On the movie. At least. I think what was.
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Funny is certainly I like felt kind of like, you
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know what, this film is kind of like, yeah, it
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was fun to see it in theaters, but watching it
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and even watching it today, I would say like it's
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kind of a bland movie. Like technology wise, the effects
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are solid, but don't hold up as well. You really
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kind of start to tune into like, oh, this is
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all animated.
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It kind of does look all animated, and without the
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three D effect, it really kind of.
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It makes it more pronounced when you see real people
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in these fake environments.
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It just feels like that separation.
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So watching Avatar at home in the theater, like, do
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you have that feeling?
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Feel different about it?
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Yeah? I mean I think they're just movies that are
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kind of meant to be in theaters, and it's great
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to watch them at home, but you're not gonna get
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the full picture unless you are in front of a
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huge screen like how he kind of intended it to be,
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and they.
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Never really perfected three D for home viewing, so it's.
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Like they tried and they gave up pretty fast. I'm
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pretty sure they're like, no, it's not working. But yeah,
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I agree. I mean, I remember the backlash didn't It
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didn't even take that long until people were like, oh,
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it's just Pocahontas with blue people like that was the big,
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the big thing, and it's not. It's not an I mean,
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the criticism is kind of valid.
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I think it's valid. I think I think as today
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watching it. We just rewatched it again. I remember we
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rewatched it before we went to see The Way of
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Water because I was kind of like, wow, it's been.
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A while since i've seen it, and I just remember thinking.
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Like, this is just not It's it's very blann in
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the way it tells its story, Like it's kind of
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like it hits all the plot beats you'd expect, Oh
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this like this shallow army guy comes in and learns
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to love the forest, nature, good, humans bad, like you know,
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just a lot of the beats it hits, like, you know,
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the the the love interest who.
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Is like his enemy, and then oh they fall in
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love with it.
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It felt like, on one level, we had this incredible
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immersive world and this amazing technology, these incredible effects that
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were developed. But on the other hand, what was frustrating
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about it for me as just a fan of film
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and also a James Cameron film as I was like,
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the story is really lazy. I mean just I think
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in the you know, we joke about like the unobtainium
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as like this is what we're here for.
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Unobtainium. It's like really like it felt like a placeholder
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and they forgot to go back to find her place
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later on with this.
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So there's just a lot of that where it almost
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felt as if James Cameron.
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And I.
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Wouldn't be surprised. It felt as if James Cameron was
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very much like, let's focus.
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On the technology.
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I just you know, I'll get a script. You know,
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I'll type out a script. I can do those in
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my sleep. We'll get a script in place. But then
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let's really like, let's focus on getting this technology. So
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I think like the journey the characters go on, the
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characters themselves. I think Zoe Saldana is the highlight of
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the film and the NAVI of course, or.
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The highlights of the film. Yeah, all the human human
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stuff is really annoying.
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I think Stephen Stephen Laying, who plays like the colonel,
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like the angry, Yeah, he's great, but I feel like
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Sam Worthington was just kind of a dull. I think
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Jake Sully is kind of a dull character in that
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first movie.
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Yeah, and you don't get like I feel like you
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could get a more powerful backstory from him, and we
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don't spend as much time with him as I as
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I would like. It's like, okay, you don't have use
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of your legs, your brother, like there's things. But then
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they just don't really go into it as much. And
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it's like that could be a really powerful jumping off
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point and they glaze right over it. And again I
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think James CAMRA's like, yeah, glaze over because we want
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to get to the NAVI when I get to the
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good stuff, right. But the jump in storytelling is great
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between the first and the second movie. I agree, like
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the world expands, it's a much tighter script. In my opinion,
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it was just more interesting.
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It was funny just remembering because talking about the backlash
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with the first film. Yeah, the backlash was, as you said,
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very quick. It kind of happened almost immediately, but it
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didn't stop the film from becoming the most profitable.
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Yeah, people still went. They just loved to complain about it.
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That loved it, and it was and again we're talking
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about the film nerves, like the nerdy people who are
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going to go on the internet, and like general audiences
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are probably like, you know, it's fine, Like all the
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family enjoyed it.
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We have to see a three d's really cool. You know,
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we forget that.
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James Cameron kind of understands it can tap into that
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that nerve that audiences have. He really understands the appeal.
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So we learned not to bet against James Cameron. But then,
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you know, in addition to this backlash, there was a
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ton of time where it just felt like, okay, are
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we we're getting not James Cameron was like, not only
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are we going to get an Avatar two and three,
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but I have four or five, six, seven, you know,
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like I have all these movies planned out, And it
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just started to feel like, okay, like you made this
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kind of mediocre movie that was really cool technology wise,
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but then we saw three d very quickly go the
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way of the Dodo. It just sort of disappeared. So
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it just felt like all this stuff James Cameron was
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talking about, it's like, okay, well that technology you were
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spearheading and championing with Avatar is gone. The innovations of
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Avatar the film itself really kind of leaned on that.
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Three D aspect, and now it just feels like, what
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do you have going for it?
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Because it wasn't that interesting, The story and characters weren't
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that compelling, and certainly was not the strongest film in
246
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his filmography.
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So it just kind of started to feel as the
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years went by, and.
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He kept insisting there's another one coming, but it's gonna
250
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take a while.
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Because we're developing all this technology. The water and you know,
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develop we.
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Made a whole ocean and like all this stuff, and
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00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:00.000
it kind of turned into like, you know, okay, let's
255
00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:02.679
go to bed, Grandpa, like, and I think that fed
256
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into the narrative of you know, why were we all
257
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:08.039
obsessed with Avatar? Why did we care so much? Why
258
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is this still the most profitable film of all time?
259
00:12:12.120 --> 00:12:15.360
It just started to feel a little wacky and silly,
260
00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:18.919
and when way of water. Finally it was like, oh,
261
00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:21.200
there's a poster. I guess it's a real movie now.
262
00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:23.840
I just remember feeling kind of like I didn't really
263
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care at first.
264
00:12:24.799 --> 00:12:26.799
Well, it's hard when you have it's been over ten
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years between, like for a direct.
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Sequel, and this had fifteen years.
267
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Yeah, it's hard. Well, you just you run the risk
268
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of losing your entire base that saw the first movie, And.
269
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Unlike Star Wars, it wasn't something where it felt like
270
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there it was picking up momentum.
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It felt like everyone had kind of like, oh, yeah,
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been there, done that, We're good.
273
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Yeah, I agree, I mean, I it is interesting. So
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when I watch it back now, I will say I
275
00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:56.639
still feel a little nostalgic in a good way though,
276
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Like I still yeah, like I can recognize that it's
277
00:13:00.440 --> 00:13:04.279
very simplistic with its story, but still kind of marvel
278
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.039
at what he pulled off at that time. But it
279
00:13:07.120 --> 00:13:09.960
is it is really hard in twenty twenty five, almost
280
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twenty twenty six, with like the amazing the standard that
281
00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:17.399
we have for special effects is insane and CG and
282
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like all this stuff. So going back, it's like your
283
00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.039
brain is also like I'm not impressed anymore. But at
284
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the time. You have to remember how freaking impressive it was.
285
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.000
It was insanely impressive. And I do remember that feeling
286
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of being like in awe and putting on those glasses
287
00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:34.799
and being like, oh my god, this is never I've
288
00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:36.639
never done this before. This is so cool.
289
00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.480
And then really there wasn't really an experience to compare
290
00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:40.960
it to a Well, there were a couple of like
291
00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:43.480
Gravity was kind of like, oh, the three D in
292
00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:48.639
Alfonso Korn's Gravity was incredible. Hugo was another one, Scorsese's Hugo.
293
00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:50.519
But really, I don't know that there were any other
294
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films that tried to take advantage of that technology.
295
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:57.840
They fly and Superman returns. There's like one one scene
296
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I remember putting the glasses up for that one.
297
00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:01.360
It was in two thousand and six.
298
00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.919
I remember it not being great. Yeah, it was.
299
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:06.519
It was like it was not designed, it was it
300
00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:09.519
was created afterwards. And Avatar was from the ground up,
301
00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.960
designed to be three D like Gravity and Hugo, you know,
302
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.960
And so I just remember feelings. I agree, like, I
303
00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.960
think Avatar is a good movie. I remember fondly seeing
304
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.279
it in theaters and that experience, but then felt very
305
00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:25.159
much like Oh, okay, here's another one, and Mike Simon
306
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.120
was really just like, what's gonna happen? Like, is this
307
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.240
gonna bum like is this gonna like what is gonna
308
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:36.200
going to happen here? And if James Cameron is planning
309
00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.720
to make more of these, you know that's this movie
310
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:42.639
cost five hundred million dollars to make, Like this is
311
00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.679
a huge, huge risk for a film that I don't
312
00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:48.000
know anybody who's really jumping.
313
00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:50.720
At the bit to see. And that was kind of
314
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:52.600
the narrative going into Way of Water. I remember the
315
00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:54.399
reviews started coming out and they were kind of.
316
00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.159
Like, oh, it's fine, and then we saw it and
317
00:14:58.240 --> 00:14:59.480
it was fantastic.
318
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:00.360
I love I.
319
00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.080
Thought it was like a huge improvement over the first one.
320
00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:05.720
I had a lot more emotional depth.
321
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.519
I thought, Yes, I found myself because of the.
322
00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:11.799
Family element, like them having kids.
323
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:17.559
I felt it gave those characters a lot more room
324
00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.679
and a lot more depth, like what you're saying, And
325
00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.840
I really, you know, as kind of worrying as I
326
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:26.000
found Sam Worthington and the first Avatar.
327
00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:30.440
I adore his performance in the second film.
328
00:15:30.600 --> 00:15:34.120
Yeah, I adore his performance like as a father, like
329
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.159
you know, being that father figure.
330
00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:37.360
I think he really nails it.
331
00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.759
But I think adding the family and adding those kids
332
00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:41.720
really gives.
333
00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:44.799
It that emotional element that was sort of missing.
334
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.120
It feels a little bit more like there's something at stake,
335
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.080
the emotional stakes are higher. But also it just feels
336
00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.960
more exciting to me, Like I think what's happening in
337
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.080
the film is more exciting.
338
00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:55.720
Yeah.
339
00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.399
I like that we as an audience didn't jump right
340
00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:01.320
back into five minutes later too. It's like we we
341
00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.639
spent the same amount of time in our world as
342
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.480
they did in their's essentially, maybe not the same, but you know,
343
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.120
ten over ten years minimum, right, just based on like
344
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.360
the age of those kids they were like what fifteen,
345
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:16.440
sixteen in human years whatever? That is a KNAVI But yeah,
346
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.960
I really enjoyed that too. And what year was it
347
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:22.200
did we see in theaters?
348
00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:23.120
Does?
349
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.039
Okay, so we had we had our son already, but
350
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.279
watching this most recent time felt a little different because
351
00:16:30.279 --> 00:16:32.120
now our son is four and a half and I
352
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.240
don't know why, but it really like kind of impacted
353
00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.519
me a little more like the emotional beats of the
354
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.519
family and stuff than when he was a baby. But yeah,
355
00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:43.799
I thought this one was really good. I would say
356
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.399
it's definitely. I mean, this is my favorite of the two.
357
00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:48.279
So we'll see what the third one brings.
358
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:51.840
I think it's like it's it is such a huge
359
00:16:51.919 --> 00:16:55.720
leap storytelling wise, technology wise over the first one. It's
360
00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.480
it's like to me watching it last night, we rewatched
361
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.360
it Prepare for Fire and Ash, and I, you know,
362
00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.359
the big thing for me was is this gonna hold up?
363
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.880
Because the first Avatar it was kind of like, you know,
364
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:09.359
the big experience seeing.
365
00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:10.759
It in three D, being in a movie.
366
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:14.480
Theater was part of that experience in crucial to the enjoyment,
367
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:17.039
and watching it at home, I was like, eh. And
368
00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:19.799
so I was kind of like almost not dreading, but
369
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:21.799
a little nervous of going back to Way of Water
370
00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.079
because I was like, I really loved that movie, and
371
00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.279
I really hope it holds up. But I think I
372
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.759
loved it even more this time without the I think
373
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:31.000
that speaks to where.
374
00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:34.079
James Cameron improved and was willing to like put the work.
375
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.640
In and make the story stronger and the characters more evolving.
376
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.319
Like it's just it works so much better.
377
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:45.279
And I was really really happy to find that I
378
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:46.279
still really enjoy it.
379
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:46.920
Oh yeah.
380
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.079
And if you're gonna if it's gonna take you know,
381
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:51.759
ten to fifteen years to make a Drugs sequel, you
382
00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:52.839
have to stick the landing.
383
00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:53.680
And he did.
384
00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:54.759
He did, He stuck that.
385
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.559
That was what was really cool about it, I think
386
00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:00.079
is that after over a decade of people kind of
387
00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:05.000
of teasing him and mocking him, myself included, and like,
388
00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.599
you know, who cares about Avatar? Like it's been so long,
389
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:11.680
I couldn't care less that it's turned into a franchise
390
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:14.079
that I'm like, if you told me ten years ago
391
00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:16.079
I would care more about seeing the Avatar movie than
392
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.400
a Marvel movie or Star Wars movie, I would have
393
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:22.440
been like, that is absurd, what universe are you living in?
394
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:25.640
But it's true, And I think it's because James Cameron
395
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:29.680
is an exciting filmmaker, is an octeur and does have
396
00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:32.680
the resources to make it happen. But as The Way
397
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.519
of Water proved, he's willing to put his money where
398
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.680
his mouth is, and he clearly heard the complaints about
399
00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:41.920
the first film and realized he had to raise the
400
00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.640
bar not only technically but emotionally.
401
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.359
And I think that's why the film did as well
402
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:49.599
as it did. Again, like knocked it out of the park.
403
00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:51.839
He was saying, like, in order for the film to
404
00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:53.960
be profitable, it had to be one of the top
405
00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.480
five highest grossing films of all time.
406
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:59.359
So all of these odds were put against it, and
407
00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:02.200
then eat it. It's even better than the first one.
408
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:02.880
It's so crazy.
409
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.359
So now we're here with the fire and ash. But
410
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:08.000
before we get there, what do we what do we
411
00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.119
want to give ratings? I want to do so let's
412
00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:14.000
just say how many how many navy do you see?
413
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.400
How many navy do you see? For Avatar? One with
414
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:17.759
one big lowest and five.
415
00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:18.720
I think a four.
416
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:23.319
Okay, yeah, I'd say three for the first one. What
417
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:24.319
about Way of Water?
418
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.079
I'm gonna go four point five. I want to do five,
419
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:30.920
but I feel like it's so hard to rate without
420
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.519
seeing the complete picture of all these like the complete
421
00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.240
picture these movies are gonna, you know, paint it. So
422
00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.319
I'm going to go with yeah, I think that's good.
423
00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:41.960
I think four point five one for me.
424
00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:43.759
When I saw Way of Water when we saw it
425
00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:45.680
in theaters, I would say it was a four, and.
426
00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:47.519
I'll bump it up to four and a half. I
427
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:49.240
don't feel the same way as you do.
428
00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:50.880
I kind of want to see the third one is
429
00:19:50.920 --> 00:19:53.519
maybe became revise our ratings.
430
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.759
So here's the thing. So here's the important thing.
431
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.039
I think that the reviews are out, the film has
432
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:01.559
been out a week. It's it's doing gangbusters at the
433
00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:05.839
box office. Everyone is like, my god, it's defying expectations again,
434
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:07.920
which you know, like at this point, it's kind of the.
435
00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:08.640
Same song a dance.
436
00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.359
James is like, yes, I love.
437
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.759
It, I love it, But I like, at this point,
438
00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:13.680
I'm like on board. I'm like, this is great. I
439
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:14.119
love this.
440
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:18.799
And I love that James Cameron knows he's amazing. He's amazing.
441
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:22.000
I love that he makes jokes about like that whoever
442
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.119
he was talking to that interview where they're like the failure,
443
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.480
what does that word mean to you? And he says,
444
00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:32.839
I don't know, it's ever happened to me. And so
445
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.960
I'm just excited for him. I'm excited that I was
446
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:39.480
excited to be proven.
447
00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:41.599
Wrong and kind of humbled, and now I'm like, great,
448
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:42.559
I can't wait.
449
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.920
So I think the most important thing to know going
450
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:50.319
into this is that originally Way of Water and Fire
451
00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:52.680
and Ash were supposed to be one movie, right, He
452
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.880
decided to split it into two because he realized Way
453
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:58.240
of Water was just too much movie and they they
454
00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:02.319
couldn't put them both into a I think based on
455
00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.119
the critical reception of this, which has been positive but
456
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:11.200
like less so than the first two films, it sounds
457
00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:14.039
like that may be the biggest complaint people have. It's like, oh,
458
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:15.720
it doesn't take as much of a leap as Way
459
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:20.039
of Water took from Avatar, the first Avatar, And there's
460
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:21.880
a part of me that's kind of like, okay, like
461
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:23.119
bracing myself for that.
462
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:27.079
But also I think having the context of knowing that.
463
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:29.599
These two films were filmed back to back and we're
464
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:33.000
kind of intended to be the same part of the
465
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:39.039
same story might be might be helpful going into it.
466
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:41.200
As far as tempering expectations.
467
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:43.640
I'm glad to know that going in, I think, yes.
468
00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.079
So I'm not going like I you know, I am
469
00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:49.279
hopeful that part of me feels like Way of Water.
470
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:52.799
Technically on paper, its reviews aren't as positive as the
471
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.759
first film, but I think it's head and shoulders about
472
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.880
the first film in terms of its quality. I think
473
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:01.119
the first one people give a pas because of all
474
00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.039
the amazing things it achieved. I think people are looking
475
00:22:04.039 --> 00:22:07.000
at these films as technological achievements and like grading them
476
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.400
as such. But I think the way of Water's strength
477
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:14.960
is that it actually increases technical stuff while increasing story content.
478
00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.640
And I just want that again.
479
00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:20.920
Really, I want to like see a big like on
480
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:22.160
a huge scale, as.
481
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:24.839
Only James Cameron can do. I want to see that.
482
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.000
I want to enjoy myself and I want to be
483
00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:30.000
involved in what's going on, and you know, there's a
484
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:32.119
feeling I think that this could just be like the
485
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:35.240
rounding out of a trilogy. James Cameron, who has said,
486
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:37.279
you know, been on the record saying I'm gonna make
487
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:39.480
Avatar movies for the rest of my life, is now
488
00:22:39.559 --> 00:22:40.400
kind of saying.
489
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.359
You know what, maybe I'm good.
490
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:45.079
Like maybe four and five somebody.
491
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.559
Else like really yeah, I don't think say he's outright
492
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:51.279
said it, but he has kind of changed is his
493
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:52.200
I can.
494
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.960
See how like this could uncap their story and you
495
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:57.480
could still follow other people or you know what I mean,
496
00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.160
and like, yeah, I think, but we'll say.
497
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.160
He can do whatever he wants. I think he's also
498
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:03.960
kind of like, let's see how this one does.
499
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.680
I just cannot imagine a world where an Avatar movie
500
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:12.119
would be done by someone other than him. It's crazy. Yeah,
501
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:14.400
I'd rather just be like, Okay, we're done. You know.
502
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.160
I do feel like it's kind of the same thing
503
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:19.920
as Tom Cruise Admission Impossible. I don't want to know
504
00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:23.599
a Mission Impossible movie that is not Tom Cruise putting
505
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:26.720
his life in danger. James Cameron is basically putting his
506
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:28.960
career on the line every time he makes one of these,
507
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:32.720
and I think that's part of the appeal of it
508
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:33.759
in a weird.
509
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.359
Way, Like I not that I.
510
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.839
Am rooting for him to fail, but in some way
511
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.559
it feels like James Cameron has become he you know,
512
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:46.960
he's the most profitable filmmaker of all time, and he
513
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:48.880
has all.
514
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.200
The resources available to him.
515
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:51.640
So I'm just kind of like, I just want to
516
00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:55.079
see him keep doing what he loves, and I like
517
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.480
would love to continue to see what he comes up with.
518
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.359
I also understand, like you at a certain point, how
519
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.519
much further can you push this technology?
520
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:05.720
What else do you have to offer? You know, the
521
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.319
way of Water all the ocean stuff was.
522
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:11.720
A new angle, But like, you know, I get like
523
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:15.720
coming to the end of this story and feeling creatively exhausted,
524
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.799
and I'm sure what else you can add to the technology,
525
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:20.200
But I don't know.
526
00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:23.599
I'm hopeful, so I think, do you think you'll enjoy it?
527
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.559
I hope i'll enjoy it. I feel I feel like
528
00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.200
I will. Yeah, I don't know. I'm more curious to
529
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:30.400
see if I'll enjoy more.
530
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.400
Than Way of Water.
531
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.839
Yeah, that's like, that's kind of my my bench point
532
00:24:34.920 --> 00:24:35.119
right now.
533
00:24:35.359 --> 00:24:35.920
I'm trying.
534
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:39.359
I'm I'm expecting, I want so I'm just kind of
535
00:24:39.359 --> 00:24:41.160
going and thinking, like, wait, I just want to be
536
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:42.160
if I can.
537
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:44.160
Enjoy it as much as Way of Water, that would
538
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:44.880
be really nice.
539
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:45.359
Yeah.
540
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:48.359
If it's like not on that level, but it's like
541
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:51.039
a solid follow up, I'm good. I just want to
542
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:55.240
enjoy it. It's three plus hours long. I expect on
543
00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:56.960
a spectacle level, it'll be really great.
544
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.440
But I'd love to see.
545
00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:01.559
I'd love to see actually care about these people now
546
00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:03.680
like I care about this family. I really want to
547
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:05.599
continue to see how they develop and grow.
548
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:08.119
So I'm kind of hoping this one isn't as sad, but.
549
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:10.720
I will see, Like I think, you know, we've got
550
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:14.720
tough thing that it's a brutal movie. I think if
551
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:17.559
I would criticize Way of Water for anything, it would
552
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.359
be I felt like, what is their name, Nay Tierney. Yeah,
553
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:23.920
she kind of got not shafted, but she's kind of
554
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.039
in the background for most of the film. It's very
555
00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:29.599
focused on the kids and the father's relationship to the kids,
556
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:32.240
and she's sort of relegated to the background until the
557
00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:34.960
end when the son is killed and then she goes
558
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:40.759
feral and you kind of realize it things will fundamentally change,
559
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:42.319
like the dynamic of the family.
560
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:42.920
Is fundamentally Yeah.
561
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:45.400
Well, something I know we're wrapping up, but something that
562
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.799
has kind of stuck with me on both watch of
563
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.480
both viewings I think have only seen it twice, and
564
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:55.319
that I'm hoping they'll talk about. But is her relationship
565
00:25:55.359 --> 00:25:58.440
with Spider, because they don't address the fact that she
566
00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:01.440
definitely would have killed him. Yes, Like I mean, it
567
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:03.880
was very she she would have you know what I mean,
568
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:07.480
like in that little hosted situation to get her child back,
569
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:10.319
a son for a son like that was a great scene,
570
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:11.880
but it was also like all this poor.
571
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:13.920
Kid, and how do you feel about the decision to
572
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:17.519
save that the colonel his decision, Spider's decision.
573
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:19.519
I mean, I understand why he did, and of course
574
00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:21.640
it's still his dad. I think.
575
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:24.559
For some reason, I remember the first time I watched
576
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:27.720
it thinking like, oh, come on, But this time I watched.
577
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:29.480
It, I understand which I thought s better. Is a
578
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:31.279
little more annoying the first time I watched it, but
579
00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:33.240
I kind of empathized with him more this time.
580
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:35.519
I agree, And I think part of it is the
581
00:26:35.559 --> 00:26:39.119
realization that the colonel I you call him.
582
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:42.400
Colonel, and I don't remember if he's actually a colonel, colonel.
583
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:47.480
Somebody, he's flonel if that is your real name, Stephen, Stephen,
584
00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:48.759
He and I go way back.
585
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.200
I love him. I think he's fantastic in this movie.
586
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:52.200
He's a great, great villain.
587
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:56.720
What occurred to me that I guess just I was
588
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:58.640
so enthralled with what I was seeing the first time
589
00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:04.200
around him, very overwhelmed, but I realized that character has
590
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.759
he's I don't care about that kid, he's not my kid,
591
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:07.720
but then makes.
592
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:08.839
The decision to save his life.
593
00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.799
Yeah, And I think that for Spider was like, I,
594
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:14.160
you know, I owe you, I owe you. I don't
595
00:27:14.240 --> 00:27:16.720
like you, I don't want to be with you. I
596
00:27:16.759 --> 00:27:18.960
think you're a terrible human. But you are my dad,
597
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:22.640
and you were given you have been totally like you.
598
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.720
I've understood this relationship and that you don't want to
599
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:28.079
have an emotional connection with me, but in that moment
600
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.319
it turned out he did like he did.
601
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:32.759
Have an emotional connection. Yeah, it's really interesting.
602
00:27:32.839 --> 00:27:36.319
I find that relationship really fascinating. I'm really curious and
603
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:38.640
excited to see what they do with that.
604
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:41.000
My hope is they don't drop the ball in that stuff.
605
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.359
There's a lot of really cool stuff that's been set up,
606
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.559
and I think what gives me hope is the fact that.
607
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:49.440
These films were one film.
608
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:51.680
Yeah, and it feels like we kind of have left
609
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:56.200
off and a semi empire strikes back way where we uh, well,
610
00:27:56.279 --> 00:27:58.720
unlike empire strikes back that in Return of the Jedi
611
00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.839
were not in vision as a single film.
612
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:02.640
They were sequels made three years apart.
613
00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:06.279
The difference here is that presumably this you know, Way
614
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:08.160
of Water ends at the midway point, and now what
615
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:08.920
we're about.
616
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:13.759
To see is the psychod half of this larger story.
617
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.720
So my hope is this is something more like Lord
618
00:28:16.759 --> 00:28:18.920
of the Rings, where because that was all a single.
619
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:20.519
Story, the story.
620
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:22.720
Has a natural arc that we hit in Return of
621
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.920
the King, we get that big finale, So I'm not saying.
622
00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:27.799
This is gonna be a return to the King. I
623
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:29.599
don't think any film is Return to the King.
624
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:33.799
But I hope as far as this story is concerned,
625
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:35.720
it's satisfying.
626
00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:37.279
Yeah, that's what I want.
627
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:39.240
Cool anything else?
628
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:43.119
We still we're almost there, so we will be back
629
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:45.240
after we watch it to give our thoughts.
630
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:59.240
Now available to own non video cassette. All right, we're out.
631
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:03.880
We just watched Avatar, Fire and Ash.
632
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:04.680
How do you feel?
633
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:09.319
I loved it. I'm so sleepy though, because it's midnight.
634
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:12.279
Well almost midnight. We will be you will take us
635
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:14.920
an hour home. So yeah, it was great.
636
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:20.519
I'm glad going into it that we had prepped ourselves
637
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:24.400
to think of it as kind of a part two too.
638
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:25.759
Way of Water.
639
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.039
Yeah, I mean it really picks up, you know, almost, yeah,
640
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:34.480
almost immediately. It's definitely a direct sequel. But I liked it.
641
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.480
I mean it was. It was pretty action packed too.
642
00:29:38.359 --> 00:29:41.160
To me, it felt like we had like just a
643
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:43.920
lot going on all the time, and it kept my attention.
644
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:46.119
So I didn't necessarily feel the length.
645
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.200
You do not feel the length. It's what three hours
646
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:49.920
and twenty minutes, Yeah, I mean longest.
647
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.079
It was long. I think the only thing that tuned
648
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:56.079
me in was like, oh, I'm getting sleepy.
649
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:59.920
Right, So but I think I think I understand what
650
00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:04.880
my critics and people are kind of like, wait a second,
651
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.920
this is sort of a repeat of the second one.
652
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:11.759
I think you should know going into it that it
653
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:14.200
was originally going to be one movie. Like, I think
654
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.480
that helps a lot, because this feels like it's kind
655
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:20.160
of concluding a lot of the stuff that was set
656
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:23.000
up in the second film. Like not that the second
657
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:25.720
film didn't feel like a conclusion, but it definitely feels
658
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:30.640
like certain plot points like Kirie Kitty, what's what's her name?
659
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.400
Sigourney Weaver and Blue Sigourney An.
660
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:35.559
I always call her kitty. I don't know if that's
661
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:37.359
what it is, but that's what it sounds like to me.
662
00:30:37.519 --> 00:30:39.640
That's what the little one call. It's like her nickname.
663
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:42.880
So yeah, kitty, we'll just say kitty. So I think
664
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.440
that am I, Yes, this is my exit, you know,
665
00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:49.279
things like what's the deal with her? Like why is she?
666
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:49.839
You know?
667
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:54.440
I thought, Oh, I don't want to go into spoilers yet,
668
00:30:54.640 --> 00:30:55.200
we'll keep it.
669
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:58.920
Non spoiler for now, but I there weren't like.
670
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:02.440
Questions about her, questions about Spider, you know, certain things
671
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:03.359
that were kind of like.
672
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.279
What's gonna happen with the Colonel, all of these things.
673
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:09.599
So this felt like kind of like what I was
674
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:13.960
hoping for, which is continuing that story. We get a
675
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:16.480
little bit more of the relationships with the family, We
676
00:31:16.519 --> 00:31:22.799
get more of Jake and his kids, and Natiri and
677
00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:26.799
her struggle and like, you know, coping with the grief
678
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:31.039
of losing his son. We get a lot of like
679
00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:34.000
we get the continuation of that, and then in some
680
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:38.799
ways we get almost some callbacks to the first movie,
681
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:40.759
Like it kind of comes full circle in the way
682
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:43.680
I wasn't expecting to the point where, you know, I
683
00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:47.000
know James Cameron is now kind of walking back his
684
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:50.640
statement about wanting to make Avatar movies for the rest
685
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.920
of his life. And you could kind of see this
686
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:57.079
as a sobbing point in some ways. At the same time, I.
687
00:31:58.599 --> 00:32:01.359
Would not. I don't really want him to stop.
688
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:04.039
No me neither. I mean, I think I think it's
689
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.240
crazy to be on the third one and kind of
690
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:08.119
be on top of his game like that. I mean
691
00:32:08.119 --> 00:32:12.599
it visually it was gorgeous. It looked so good. The
692
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.279
three D was fun. I thought it looked really good.
693
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.480
I mean, I have no I don't only have any complaints.
694
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:20.720
Like I had a really good time. It was you know,
695
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.400
it was funny, it was emotional, sad, it was like
696
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:25.960
very like I said, action packed. Like I felt like
697
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:30.039
the fighting scenes I think were some of the best
698
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:33.119
I've seen. I just really enjoyed them. They were just
699
00:32:33.480 --> 00:32:34.279
it was just sood.
700
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:35.119
The action was great.
701
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.920
I mean, it's great to see to I enjoy the
702
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:40.480
first Avatar, Like I think the First Avatar is fine,
703
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.680
but I feel like I'm kind of just.
704
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:44.400
Bored by the action scenes in that.
705
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:46.559
So it was really great that with the Way of
706
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:49.400
Water in this one, it feels like James Cameron really
707
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:50.440
hupped his game.
708
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:53.880
And it really feels like I felt with Avatar.
709
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.440
I was kind of watching it thinking, really, this is
710
00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:58.240
the guy who made Terminator too, this is the guy
711
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:00.799
who made Alien. It's like it's okay, I guess, but
712
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.319
I feel like the inventiveness in the sense of excitement
713
00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:07.839
and genuine thrills came back in the Way of Water
714
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.039
and definitely feel like a continuation in this one and
715
00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:14.440
I also feel like I'm I'm kind of like, if
716
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:16.839
you liked The Way of Water, I don't know why
717
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:18.039
you wouldn't enjoy this.
718
00:33:18.519 --> 00:33:21.279
No, I mean I think they're meant to be watched together, really,
719
00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:22.640
all six.
720
00:33:22.480 --> 00:33:24.480
Hours all yeah, it just buckle up.
721
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:27.359
Yeah, but really, I feel like the previous movies, it's like,
722
00:33:27.599 --> 00:33:30.319
you know, we had battles, but this movie was a war,
723
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:34.400
Like we got a three and a half hour war basically,
724
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.599
and I really, I really enjoyed that. I thought it
725
00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:40.440
was great and it was executed really well.
726
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.200
Okay, so we both think it's great. Do we want
727
00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:46.400
to now take jump into spoilers specific stuff. Yes, our
728
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.359
brains are kind of fried, but there you go. It's
729
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:50.559
great if you haven't seen it and don't want to
730
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:52.799
listen to spoiler stuff that you can jump out now,
731
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:54.640
but definitely go see it and come back and listen
732
00:33:54.680 --> 00:33:59.519
to the rest, so full spoiler mode like, this definitely
733
00:33:59.559 --> 00:34:02.079
feels like it could be a stopping point.
734
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:03.279
I don't.
735
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:07.920
I think it's it feels interesting and kind of inevitable
736
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:10.880
that it was like Sigourney Weaver, It's like, yes, you
737
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:13.599
were birthed by the great mother of the planet.
738
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:16.719
There was no father, you know, like that kind of stuff.
739
00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:19.199
It's like, ah, yes, here we go again, one of
740
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:21.400
these things where it's like she's the chosen one and dadada.
741
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:23.840
But it's like, as hokey as that sounds when I'm
742
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:27.039
saying it, it's not. It doesn't feel that hokey in
743
00:34:27.079 --> 00:34:29.800
the movie. It's not that ridiculous. But it does kind
744
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:33.119
of feel a little bit like, oh well, yeah, like
745
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:36.519
there's a big mystery around her for the second movie,
746
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.159
like how does she know these things?
747
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.119
And I guess where else can you go? But I
748
00:34:41.119 --> 00:34:41.400
don't know.
749
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:45.559
Something about that felt a little lazy, but almost kind
750
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:46.400
of like, oh well.
751
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:51.079
I think it was slightly predictable. But at the same time,
752
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:53.400
like you said, like when you're watching it on screen,
753
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:56.000
I didn't feel I wasn't like rolling my eyes or
754
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:57.880
anything like that. I was just like, Okay, yep, this
755
00:34:58.000 --> 00:34:59.840
is kind of going where I thought it was gonna go.
756
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:02.880
And you know, we need we need a savior at
757
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:05.519
the end here, and who's gonna pull through but her?
758
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.559
Yes, So yeah.
759
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.760
I mean it didn't bother me, but I did kind
760
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:12.559
of see it coming, I would say.
761
00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:17.719
Yeah, And I feel like the religious aspects were really.
762
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:20.280
Cranked up this time. It's always been a through like
763
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.440
a wah and the planet and dadda.
764
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:24.960
But I think by adding that layer of like, oh,
765
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:31.199
she's blue Jesus, she's the daughter of the planet, the
766
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:35.360
planet God, and she will intervene on humanity or not humanity,
767
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:39.159
on the planet's behalf, on her family's behalf to save
768
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:42.239
the world kind of felt like, oh wow, we're really
769
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:45.559
going out there. And then like you know, Spider at
770
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:47.760
the end when they have that ceremony and they're like
771
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.559
you will live in a wa forever and he's like,
772
00:35:50.599 --> 00:35:52.519
oh great, it's like they're all in heaven together.
773
00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:53.360
I was like, this is.
774
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.119
Very very feels very very religious, like it kind of
775
00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:02.000
it's a little hippie dippy but sweet, like the sentiment
776
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:04.760
is sweet, but it's definitely like all James camera, you know.
777
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.280
I agree. I think it's interesting because I was wondering
778
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.039
if it would be like a cliffhanger like The Way
779
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.320
of Water was, or kind of like Okay, this is
780
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:16.719
what's next and then roll credits. But this one felt
781
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.519
kind of like encapped in a sense, even though I
782
00:36:19.559 --> 00:36:22.119
do want more, it did kind of feel like and
783
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.239
here's the pretty bow at the end where they're kumbaya
784
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:29.400
and everyone's happy and in harmony, even though we lost
785
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:31.880
some big characters that we don't get to see the
786
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:37.000
fallout of that at all, really not amongst the you know,
787
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.760
the people grieving them, and I guess that's like different
788
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:41.920
people in a different story, but still it's like they
789
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:45.440
were side they pretty big side characters the whole movie.
790
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.239
Yeah, it's hard, like because we lose Kate Wins, let
791
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.239
you know, the chief's wife.
792
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.159
We couldn't even know that was, Oh my gosh, that's cool, and.
793
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:02.119
Like it's it's a great end, like great ending for
794
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:04.400
a character, Like I have no complaints about that, but
795
00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:06.280
you brought up something.
796
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.880
Interesting I wasn't really thinking about and kind of the
797
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:10.159
the post.
798
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:12.840
Viewing rush and just sort of absorbing everything that happened.
799
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:17.519
But it definitely the ending felt a little like we
800
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:20.360
don't see the fallout from you know, like how did
801
00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:22.360
the chief react to losing his wife?
802
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:24.719
How does the daughter who is his son?
803
00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:28.960
Yea, the son, like you lost family, he's lost the family,
804
00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:31.880
like the whole family, but like is now he is
805
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:35.880
his daughter and the other son they're the only ones alive.
806
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:37.320
And you know this is a.
807
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.159
Kind of the whole Yeah, the whole franchise is about
808
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:42.239
the Sullies, of course.
809
00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:44.920
So it's like, and I understand the film.
810
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.159
Has to have like a celebratory ending, so you don't
811
00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:50.000
want to kind of have this downer where it's like, oh,
812
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.400
by the way, your wife is dead and all that stuff.
813
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.320
So in a way, I get it, But we've spent
814
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.119
so much time with this family and they.
815
00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:58.280
Were like the main characters here, so I was a
816
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.159
little like, I wonder if they're gonna wrap that up.
817
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:02.199
But yeah, they kind of skipped over that and we're like,
818
00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:04.320
let's just skip to the end and everybody's happy.
819
00:38:04.679 --> 00:38:06.599
But I mean we're at three and a half hours,
820
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:09.679
so yeah, yeah, maybe it just got cut.
821
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:13.320
I don't know, maybe, And so that that's definitely something
822
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:17.679
I think felt a little weird. I also, I love,
823
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.719
you know, Stephen Lang, and I'm calling him Stephen Lang.
824
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:22.800
I'm pretty sure that's his name. We haven't looked it up.
825
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:26.719
We could have looked it up before we recorded this.
826
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:31.000
Part, but we're this is pretty pretty lack bluster.
827
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:34.519
Podcasting, but you'll have to deal with it. I love
828
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.360
the Colonel. I love that character. I think It's great
829
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:41.000
that his story throughout these three films has been really fun.
830
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:47.039
I felt in some ways like the Fire Tribe was
831
00:38:48.039 --> 00:38:53.840
the ash Tribe was almost maybe this is just a
832
00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:56.639
gut reaction and I'll feel differently watching it again, but
833
00:38:56.800 --> 00:39:00.960
I almost feel like they were under utilized in some way.
834
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.039
Am I crazy? Maybe it's because that relationship be had with.
835
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:11.079
The crazy lady who leads the ash Tribe was so
836
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.360
fascinating to me. And then it felt like she kind
837
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.960
of disappeared in the climax of the film, like there
838
00:39:17.239 --> 00:39:22.239
was sort of a fight and then they capture everyone
839
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:23.519
and then.
840
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:28.639
Then the ship kind of like she disappears.
841
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:30.480
I don't think she gets killed.
842
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:34.039
Yeah, it just don't like, in some ways I.
843
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:35.719
Thought we were gonna get a show down with her,
844
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.960
and yeah, I think that's maybe like Jake and the
845
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:42.760
Colonel get paired. You know, they're like the big arch
846
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:46.239
nemesis of those characters. But yeah, that was interesting. And
847
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:52.800
again I'm like, is there another movie like something? Yeah,
848
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:55.559
we don't. Yeah, so we see him fall to a
849
00:39:55.599 --> 00:39:58.280
fiery death, except we don't see his death, so we
850
00:39:58.360 --> 00:39:59.880
know what that means. And this guy is a cow
851
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:04.360
nine lives like I just I and I don't really
852
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:11.960
see him the type two you know, jump to his Yeah,
853
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:14.679
like he has not been that at all, Like especially
854
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:18.519
when Jake's giving him an out, like we're not you know,
855
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:20.360
hold your fire, don't shoot him.
856
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:21.920
Yes, where they're.
857
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:26.000
Basically join us, Yeah, like be with your son, join us,
858
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:27.000
let's figure this out.
859
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:29.840
Yeah, and maybe that's what where it will go.
860
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:33.239
I you know, I I kind of feel like I
861
00:40:33.320 --> 00:40:35.559
wish they'd sort of wrapped up the kernel in a
862
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:39.400
way like that it had kind of been more conclusive, because really,
863
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:41.800
all there is left to do with him is like
864
00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:45.559
you either go the repetitive route of like I'm still
865
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:50.199
trying to kill the Sullies, or you have him like, yeah,
866
00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:52.400
a good guy. And it's like, I don't know if
867
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:54.679
either are super interesting, Like I would have been okay
868
00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:59.280
if he like in the dust in this one. But
869
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:03.320
I all also think that to your point, I wanted
870
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:07.599
a Natere and Crazy ash Lady showdown.
871
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:10.280
Yeah, it felt a little. I think this is just
872
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:11.679
the downside of.
873
00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:16.239
Cameron's decision to split the one story into two movies,
874
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:18.039
where it was kind of like, well, it has to
875
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:21.079
it has to end this way, and these moments have
876
00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:23.039
to kind of mirror what happened in the Way of
877
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:26.800
Water's story, But because it's two separate movies, it really
878
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.039
calls attention to the fact that we are repeating a
879
00:41:29.079 --> 00:41:31.960
lot of the same beats as in.
880
00:41:31.960 --> 00:41:32.639
The Way of Water.
881
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.199
And it would have been more interesting to kind of
882
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.920
like really branch out and go in some different character
883
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:40.199
and story directions, like with Nateri.
884
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:41.599
Letting her take point at the end.
885
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:45.079
You know, we have another Jake and Clonel fight at
886
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:46.599
the end of this movie, which we had in the
887
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:48.440
Way of Water. It would have been more interesting. It's like, oh,
888
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:50.440
let's switch it up, Let's have a different fight this time.
889
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:54.960
But I also know why you know, what's his name?
890
00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:57.159
Why am I forgetting the boy's name the.
891
00:41:57.199 --> 00:41:59.119
Dreadlot's boys Spider Spider?
892
00:41:59.320 --> 00:42:02.320
Like it makes sense, Like, oh, it's about the father's
893
00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:04.679
fighting over him and Spider is the key.
894
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:06.599
To all of this and all that stuff.
895
00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.239
How did you feel about Spider in general in this
896
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:10.159
movie and.
897
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:16.480
Now he's nov basically I like Spider, Like, I actually
898
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:18.679
think he's great.
899
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:23.880
I how'd you feel about that decision, which decision to
900
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:25.039
turn him into a Novi?
901
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:27.039
Now he's that's.
902
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:29.360
Fine, I think. I mean, I think they had to
903
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:32.039
just come up with a way to make sure you
904
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:35.199
could breathe the air. Like I think the writers were
905
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:38.199
just like, damn it, you gotta do something. I mean,
906
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:40.800
that's fine. That doesn't really bother me. He basically was
907
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:45.519
noave anyway, Like he lived like them. He that was
908
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:48.239
his family, like nothing, you know. So to me, that's
909
00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.320
kind of a natural conclusion. So that makes sense. I
910
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:56.400
really enjoyed his character. But can we talk about Jake
911
00:42:56.480 --> 00:43:01.599
almost killing him? Yeah, because that scene was so disturbing, Yes,
912
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:04.239
and it really took me out. I was like, oh
913
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.239
my god, like what, well, I'm so dark?
914
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:08.000
I thought it was.
915
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:11.079
I mean, I loved the scene, and I understood logically
916
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:13.639
why he knew he like, it was like, we have
917
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:20.559
to do this because now this kid is basically he
918
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:24.239
could be the key to our this entire planet being
919
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:27.679
destroyed if the humans can figure him out, figure out
920
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:30.920
how to adapt their bodies so that they can breathe
921
00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:33.679
the Pandora's air.
922
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:36.119
And they can, so I understood why it was like,
923
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:37.440
let's get rid of him.
924
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.400
Can I also make the point that that logic could
925
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:44.239
be applied to their daughter yeah, who created him.
926
00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:48.039
Well, it could also basically like you know, the problem
927
00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:52.079
is there's well, there's an interesting moral dilemma there. I
928
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.679
think you're kind of delaying the inevitable because who's to
929
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:57.880
blame for everything that happens to these tribes?
930
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:01.400
You can say, oh, Jake hidden the t and you know.
931
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:06.320
Brought his battles to these other people, but ultimately it
932
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:09.760
comes down to the fact that humanity is invading this planet.
933
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.400
And is going to stop but nothing.
934
00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:14.920
So Jake's involvement really is the only thing that's prevented
935
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:16.480
that from.
936
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:18.079
Happening, like him and his family.
937
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:22.519
So it kind of I feel like it kind of
938
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:27.320
applies to this situation too, where like, yes, on one level,
939
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:29.920
you could look at it and say Jake is to
940
00:44:29.960 --> 00:44:31.840
blame for everything that happens here, but if you look
941
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:34.239
at the larger picture, you're like, well, no, Jake has
942
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:38.159
been the key to their survival. He's actually saved the
943
00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:41.840
planet from the sky people who are going to invade
944
00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:44.840
regardless and probably would have taken over by this point
945
00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:48.239
if it wasn't for Jake's efforts. And with Spider it's
946
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:50.960
the same thing where it's kind of like Jake is
947
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:54.639
looking in that narrow minded way of kind of like
948
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:57.719
the hateful, spiteful, like it's all about like we got
949
00:44:57.719 --> 00:44:59.400
to kill him, we got to put an end to it.
950
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:01.960
Because they study him and they get.
951
00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:05.400
Access to his DNA or whatever it is that is
952
00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:10.880
allowing him to live here comfortably, it's going to ruin everything,
953
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:12.519
and it's a valid concern.
954
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:14.639
But I think what he realizes, it's like, this is
955
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:16.639
not this is not the way.
956
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:19.039
This is a dark moment for them, I think because
957
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:22.519
they've been through so much and emotionally as an emotional
958
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:24.599
beat for the film, it's very powerful.
959
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.920
Oh yeah, so I really appreciate that.
960
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:30.159
I think, like Avatar, the first Avatar to me is
961
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:33.000
like a film that is so kind of like beat
962
00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:35.760
for me kind of plan that there aren't any moments
963
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:37.159
I find powerful.
964
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:40.159
It is. It's safe, Yeah, it's it plays it safe.
965
00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:42.760
But way of water and fire and ash kind.
966
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:45.639
Of like you know, it feels more like what you're
967
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:47.920
used to seeing from James camera, which is like some
968
00:45:48.079 --> 00:45:51.679
risk taking in the storytelling. It's some really interesting and
969
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:56.760
exciting stuff. So I like, I liked that scene a lot.
970
00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:58.800
I thought that was a really standout scene. And again
971
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:02.400
I think like this. The cast is really incredible. Sam
972
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:07.880
Worthington is amazing. I think what what's most interesting to
973
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.400
me about this is the way that the critical community
974
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:13.760
has sort of responded to it, where they're kind.
975
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:16.000
Of like, not negative about.
976
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:18.440
It, but they're almost like, oh, nothing new to see here, folks,
977
00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.360
And to me, I feel like, how is that?
978
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.239
What is so like? To me? The storytelling is more
979
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:25.159
compelling now.
980
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:27.480
But I also think there are new things to see,
981
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.639
Like we've got a really introspective look at grief from
982
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:33.639
different people and how they react, and I thought that
983
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:37.679
was really beautiful and complex, and like, yeah, I don't know,
984
00:46:37.960 --> 00:46:39.840
I feel like we got a lot of new stuff.
985
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:41.480
That's what I'm saying. They're looking at it.
986
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:44.679
They're not looking at Avatar as a story like a
987
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:49.480
worthy storytelling venture. They're looking at it from a technical standpoint.
988
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:52.519
What is impressive about it from a technical standpoint? And
989
00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:55.599
they're greeting it on that value alone, which I think
990
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:58.519
is really stupid because what they're saying is, well, the
991
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:02.079
first Avatar was the like the landmark film that really
992
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:05.960
changed the game. Therefore it's the best film, but it's
993
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:08.679
not the best film. It's the least interesting of the films.
994
00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:10.800
It just was the first one to play at the flag.
995
00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:13.239
I think there's a weird thing going on here where
996
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:16.119
like critics are kind of looking at it and saying,
997
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:18.760
what technical innovations have you brought to the table, Oh,
998
00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:20.559
there's nothing new since Way of Water.
999
00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:21.920
Well, in that case, we're going to.
1000
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:24.719
Just dismiss everything else you're doing, which is kind of
1001
00:47:24.840 --> 00:47:29.360
what I think film snobs and like the most arrogant
1002
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:33.119
of film criticism does with big blockbuster films or like
1003
00:47:33.199 --> 00:47:37.039
superhero films, they kind of dismiss them out right because they're.
1004
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:38.320
Like, oh, it's a big spectacle.
1005
00:47:38.920 --> 00:47:43.239
Unless there's something innovative happening from a cinema level, it
1006
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:43.920
doesn't matter.
1007
00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:48.559
But then they'll forgive every kind of low key indie.
1008
00:47:48.280 --> 00:47:50.400
Film for telling the same story over and over again,
1009
00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:53.199
because oh, it's like low key. I feel like James
1010
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:58.079
Cameron to me watching these films, He's raised his own
1011
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:02.280
storytelling bar. He recognize the weaknesses of the first film
1012
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:04.760
and it's like, okay, well let me do something that
1013
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:09.760
is more emotionally engaging and involving. And it's just with
1014
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:15.280
five hundred million dollars instead of one million dollars. That's
1015
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:18.360
really cool and I think that also for me personally,
1016
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:21.280
is why I wouldn't want to see him necessarily pass
1017
00:48:21.360 --> 00:48:24.039
this off to somebody else. I would like to see
1018
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:26.880
him kind of close things out in a way.
1019
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:29.679
Yeah, I agree. I'd rather him do it or it
1020
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:30.679
just be done.
1021
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:33.480
Yeah, I like, well, how do you feel? Do you want? Like,
1022
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:37.239
do we want more Avatar movies?
1023
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.360
So? I do, but I think they have to come up.
1024
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:44.360
I mean, I just don't think they could do the
1025
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:46.320
sky People against Avatar again.
1026
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:47.480
Yeah, we've had.
1027
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:50.159
Three movies and this felt definitive, as in, like they
1028
00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:54.519
defeated them, right, But I guess that's not how life works.
1029
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:59.360
So there probably will be more sky People yeah, to come.
1030
00:48:59.440 --> 00:49:03.000
But I think I would love to see something fresh,
1031
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.599
maybe like something that unites everyone because there's a bigger
1032
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:10.920
threat against all human I don't know, Like, yeah, I agree,
1033
00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:13.320
but I know that that's kind of trophy and that's
1034
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:16.079
you know what we see with like sequels and three
1035
00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:19.039
quels and stuff. But I do think that it could
1036
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:23.079
I don't know, it could just feel like boring if
1037
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:26.280
we get the same story again. This was a continuation,
1038
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.239
so it worked. Avatar one was its own film. The
1039
00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:32.079
second one was its own. It continued into the third
1040
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.679
and it booke ended that story. So it's kind of like,
1041
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.639
if you want to continue, I would want to have
1042
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:41.159
something more fresh, Like give me the same people. That's fine,
1043
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:46.559
but like what's the next threat or you know issue,
1044
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:47.760
like what do we have to deal with?
1045
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:51.199
Yeah, I think you're touching on like the bigger problem
1046
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:56.159
with blockbusters in general, and what the the marvel cinematic
1047
00:49:56.280 --> 00:50:01.639
universication of blockbusters where you know, it's no longer a
1048
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:04.199
mindset of telling a great story, it's how do we.
1049
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:05.880
Just keep this going and going and going?
1050
00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:08.199
If each one makes a billion dollars, we want to
1051
00:50:08.280 --> 00:50:09.920
keep making a billion dollars a pup.
1052
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:12.920
But we see what happens when the fatigue sets in
1053
00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:13.800
and the film.
1054
00:50:13.559 --> 00:50:18.400
Stopped being favorites of critics and audiences and they stop
1055
00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:22.480
making money. So Avatar is kind of walking this very
1056
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:25.880
fine line of like it struck. The balance of audiences
1057
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:30.119
are into it. They're they're putting out their their wallets,
1058
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.559
they're giving over their money to see these movies in
1059
00:50:32.599 --> 00:50:36.440
a big, big way. I don't know that that's sustainable,
1060
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:39.199
and I think James Cameron knows that. So then the
1061
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:42.760
question is, Okay, what's the endgame here? Are there going
1062
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:45.679
to be five Avatar movies? If so, like we've got
1063
00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:47.920
two more, and then what's like what is the story?
1064
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:49.920
And it would really be up to Avatar for to
1065
00:50:50.639 --> 00:50:53.079
kind of set the stage and like my question is
1066
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:55.199
your question, like what is the story?
1067
00:50:55.239 --> 00:50:56.079
Like, what's left to do?
1068
00:50:56.599 --> 00:51:01.159
It's been like Humans versus Novi, Humans versus Pandora, Earth
1069
00:51:01.239 --> 00:51:03.920
versus Pandora, and all you can kind of do is
1070
00:51:04.159 --> 00:51:10.280
keep scaling that up. And we've kind of established that, like, oh, humanity,
1071
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:14.599
there's value in Pandora has a sizable dollar amount attached
1072
00:51:14.599 --> 00:51:14.840
to it.
1073
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.719
So we're not gonna give up that easy. But you
1074
00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:19.320
can't just keep having it be like the.
1075
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.960
Humans came back with bigger guns than things like that.
1076
00:51:23.159 --> 00:51:26.920
So I don't know. We're in an interesting place right
1077
00:51:26.960 --> 00:51:27.840
now where.
1078
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.960
I think, well, we might get the plot if it underperforms,
1079
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:31.440
we might.
1080
00:51:31.320 --> 00:51:36.159
Find out, right, James just said, this movie underperforms, will
1081
00:51:36.159 --> 00:51:38.920
call a press conference and announce the plots of four
1082
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:43.000
and five. It's not gonna happen because this movie is
1083
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:44.639
gonna make another.
1084
00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:47.840
Two billion dollars and Disney is gonna be desperate for more.
1085
00:51:48.079 --> 00:51:51.840
Our theater was full, theater was packed a week after release.
1086
00:51:52.079 --> 00:51:54.679
Yeah, I mean it's gonna be doing it's doing great.
1087
00:51:55.159 --> 00:51:56.719
I think that the.
1088
00:51:56.800 --> 00:52:00.639
Drop the week the weekend drop is something insign like
1089
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:03.440
it's everyone's like, oh my god, we've never seen anything
1090
00:52:03.519 --> 00:52:06.119
like this before, and it's like, because you have. It
1091
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.320
was the last James Cameron movie. That was the last
1092
00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:10.360
time that's happened. So I just we're used to it
1093
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:14.480
by now. But I I think he was always saying
1094
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:16.199
he had a plan for five of them.
1095
00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:18.880
Yeah, but I don't think he's written the fourth and
1096
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:20.760
fifth one. Yeah. I think the second and.
1097
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:23.880
Third one he'd already written and they were kind of
1098
00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:26.800
made together. And now he's taken a rest. I think
1099
00:52:26.840 --> 00:52:30.679
he's making another movie in between, and maybe that'll give
1100
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:33.519
him some good perspective on whether he wants to continue
1101
00:52:33.639 --> 00:52:35.920
or not. But I think if this movie makes two
1102
00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:38.559
billion dollars, he'd be pretty hard pressed not to.
1103
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:41.760
Yeah. I just think we might see another like gap,
1104
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.320
like maybe another ten years go by, and then we'll
1105
00:52:44.320 --> 00:52:45.679
see what happens.
1106
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:46.360
Yeah.
1107
00:52:46.679 --> 00:52:50.039
But I enjoyed it, like I really enjoyed it. I
1108
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:52.559
think if you enjoyed way of water. You're gonna enjoy this.
1109
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.239
I understand why some people might be.
1110
00:52:56.159 --> 00:52:59.280
A little disappointed, but overall I thought it was pretty great.
1111
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:00.679
Yeah, I had a good time.
1112
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:01.119
I don't.
1113
00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:04.760
I'm real curious to see what we hear about. Maybe
1114
00:53:04.760 --> 00:53:06.199
another one, Yeah, I haven't.
1115
00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:09.719
I mean, as far as like trilogies go, the kind
1116
00:53:09.719 --> 00:53:12.760
of running gag is that the third one is easily
1117
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:16.880
the weakest of almost any trilogy. But in this case,
1118
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:19.039
I would say the first one is actually the weakest.
1119
00:53:19.079 --> 00:53:21.679
I think the third, second, and third ones are actually
1120
00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:22.480
really really great.
1121
00:53:22.599 --> 00:53:27.239
So always he's bucking the trends that James Cameron. He
1122
00:53:27.320 --> 00:53:29.880
knows what he's doing. So what do we what do
1123
00:53:29.920 --> 00:53:31.679
we say for our final ratings? How do we feel
1124
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:37.039
we'll do? Uh uh? I don't know how many?
1125
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:41.719
What are those orco whale looking? I can't remember the names.
1126
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:42.639
I need addictionary.
1127
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:48.239
Yeah, they're the best, They're really the superstars of this franchise. Oh,
1128
00:53:47.719 --> 00:53:50.320
I think those work o whale things?
1129
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:52.159
How many of those? On a scale from one to five,
1130
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:53.760
I would probably give this one four.
1131
00:53:54.360 --> 00:53:55.719
I think I'm at a four as well.
1132
00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:57.880
Yeah, yeah, four, solid four.
1133
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:00.519
I think I think my ratings still stay on our
1134
00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:03.920
way of water. I like a smitch more but this
1135
00:54:04.119 --> 00:54:06.000
was solid, Yes, really solid.
1136
00:54:06.119 --> 00:54:09.960
Yeah, agreed, So we will see fingers crossed.
1137
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:12.440
I'm sure we'll be hearing like after we're done.
1138
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:15.960
He'll probably make some big announcement about how this movie
1139
00:54:16.000 --> 00:54:18.519
is now like making on its way to three billion.
1140
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:22.719
James Cameron is chained to the desk until he writes
1141
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:26.159
all of the scripts and the spinoff TV show for
1142
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:28.800
Disney Plus and blah blah blah.
1143
00:54:28.880 --> 00:54:32.719
But I'm looking forward to I want more Pandora. I'll
1144
00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:34.079
take it so great.
1145
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:37.360
Thank you, we got to do this too, kind of
1146
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:41.639
this crazy haphazard recording in the car, and thanks everyone
1147
00:54:41.679 --> 00:54:45.599
for listening. I'm at a gendor Man on Twitter, seon
1148
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:50.280
Doormano vib on Letterbox, and at Seon Dorman on Instagram.
1149
00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:52.440
We will see you at the movies