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Hello and welcome to the Label Sessions Presents podcast.
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Label Sessions is the world's leading innovation expert network.
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In this series, you will meet some of the most interesting leaders anywhere from across
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the world's business, design, tech, culture and sustainability.
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All signed to the Label Sessions roster.
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To find out more about our work, helping brands and institutions around the world take on
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their big challenges for the future, head to LabelSessions.com to find out more.
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For now, enjoy the podcast.
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And we're alive.
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Absolutely.
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Good.
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Well, first of all, welcome Laura.
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It's great to have you on the podcast and part of Label Sessions.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Let's dive in.
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So, and actually go into the key topic.
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So, community, brands, how they work together, what's your view on that?
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What is a community around a brand?
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Oh, you put me on the spot there.
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So, community as, I mean, community in itself, I think is something that we grossly underestimate
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when it comes to its impact.
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It's become a bit of a buzzword.
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So, everyone talks about needing community, but then everyone's like, yeah, but what does
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that actually mean?
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And I think when it comes to being a brand, there are so many benefits to having a community
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from the ideation stage of maybe building something new, launching something, getting
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that initial feedback, building brand advocacy, having, you know, this community of, I like
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to use the example of Kevin Kelly's essay.
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He talks about the importance of having a thousand true fans.
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You know, gone are the days where we want to go viral and have millions of followers
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because those millions of followers might only equate to a very small portion of percentage
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of people who are actually willing to pot with their money to buy your brand, you know,
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buy into your mission, your values and all of that stuff.
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Whereas actually, if we approach community from this through the lens of building a tight
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community of true fans, you only need a thousand true fans who, let's say, want to pay £100
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across the year to generate £100,000 a year.
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So that feels much more accessible and realistic than trying to, you know, build a huge audience
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of people that aren't necessarily fully integrated into this movement you're trying to build
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and create.
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So for me, and you can probably tell I'm very passionate about community, I could talk about
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it all day.
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So I'll try and keep these answers as succinct as possible.
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But community is your audience, your social media following, your brand family, your advocates,
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or they're not just your customers.
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And I think when we can look at community as a key priority to building a brand, we're
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building it from the foundations of trust and values alignment and all the wonderful
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things that come hand in hand with prioritising building community around whatever business
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or brand or product or service you're looking to create.
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Okay, really interesting, and how did you come to be working in this field?
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How did that story all happen?
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So I definitely fell into it, like most people do, I think.
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I never grew up thinking I'm going to be a community builder when I'm older.
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But I'm a business strategist, a community builder.
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I'm a speaker, founder, founder and flourish.
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Now founder and flourish is a community for purpose-led founders on a mission to make
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money for good, to have an impact in the world, but to not neglect that profit element, which
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so many people who are looking to build wonderful, purposeful businesses tend to see as an afterthought.
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So that's definitely evolved over the last seven to eight years.
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I studied media and communication at university.
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I moved my way up the ladder in the media industry, found myself burning out just before
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I turned 30 and thought, right, that's it, I'm out.
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And I set up my first profitable business.
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I've had lots of ideas over the last 20 years, some awful, some not so awful, but I didn't
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have the resources, the community, the support that I needed to make those ideas into a reality
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that was going to work in the business world.
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So when I burned out and I left my job without Plan B, I was very excited.
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And then after my 30th birthday, I was like, what have I done?
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And I felt very lonely and isolated.
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So I set up my consultancy and about a year later, everything was going great, got pregnant,
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had a baby.
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And for me, everything changed then because I realized that not only am I meandering through
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the ups and downs of running a business, but I'm also bringing up a human.
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And I was thrown into a new world of challenges of loneliness.
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And so I decided I would go on the hunt of a community that I could be a part of, wanted
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to find something that really resonated with me.
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I'm very values driven.
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So if I don't see my values kind of at the forefront of anything I'm looking at, I'm
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not interested and completely disengaged.
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And very quickly, I realized this is back in 2018.
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And there wasn't really much of a, there weren't any communities that resonated with what was
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important to me.
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And so I decided to start one and that community is found and flourished.
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And it started as a newsletter.
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Then we moved into a founder sort of interview series.
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We partnered with different venues across London and we interviewed female founders who were
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braving the world of entrepreneurship.
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We called the series How She Did It and very quickly the community grew into what was then
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going to be my second business and my full-time job.
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And so I realized very early on the importance of community and how much people craved to
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feel connected and heard and seen and understood in different environments, offline and online,
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bearing minuses pre-COVID.
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And it kind of became a beast of itself.
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I realized within six to 12 months that it was something that I was either going to have
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to walk away from because I didn't have the capacity or put everything into it.
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I was also studying naturopathic medicine at the time.
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I was running my consultancy.
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So I made some difficult decisions and I put everything into found and flourished.
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And so yeah, we've kind of grown organically over the last seven years.
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We've got over 40,000 people within our network.
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We pivoted during COVID, which was an exciting time.
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And we turned into a fully online business.
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And now we're kind of obviously blending back into in real life experiences, offline events
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as well as online and then managing our platform online.
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So that's kind of something where there are like practical elements in the journey of
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how I've gone from having this initial kind of like challenge in my life and building
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community and then understanding through those experiences just how important community
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is.
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And since then, my passions have evolved into looking at micro communities, understanding
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the importance of third spaces.
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You know, there are so many community groups that have closed down and ceased to exist,
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whether that's, you know, community centers, YMCA's, town halls, physical spaces, but
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also online spaces.
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And I think a lot of the challenges people are facing now with, well, how do we make
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these spaces profitable?
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How can we keep them going?
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Because our time is money and running a community is costly and it takes a lot of time.
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So I see this as a big challenge and a problem to solve.
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And so I kind of weave in my own experiences of running and growing a community with my
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consulting, my business strategy and the community building work I do with startups, founders,
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et cetera, et cetera.
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And yeah, that's kind of where I'm at now.
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And that's sort of my journey and my interest in community.
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And now this not new mission, but this mission that I'm so passionate about, which is, yeah,
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to find the world of business and community building for people, educating people as young
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as like that student level all the way through to people running big corporations and whether
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we're talking about educating students on entrepreneurship cohorts, the importance of
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building community around a business idea, all the way through to businesses, building
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communities as part of company culture and then everything in between.
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So there's a real kind of like breadth to the way I see community and its importance
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in our world, society, cultures and businesses.
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So much in that to open up in different ways.
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One thing that's really interesting maybe in the founder of Flourish Story, people listening,
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that may come from a more traditional background of brand building because they might see how
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you start with a newsletter and you get to a position where you've got thousands of followers.
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But you see that very much as a community platform.
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I mean, how do you approach that differently?
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Are you conscious all the way through of making different choices?
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Are you trying to build a community brand rather than a more traditional one or is it different from that?
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So I think people misunderstand.
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The I think people get confused between, let's say, social media audiences and community.
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So it's a really good question because a lot of the time people will say they have a community
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but they just have followers on Instagram.
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And yes, there is this element of having a two way conversation, but there's a real like difference.
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So community, an audience is what you have on social media or on email list.
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You'll be talking to then you might get one or two responses, but it's very much like you're speaking to an audience.
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The difference between that and a community is there are multiple conversations happening.
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There's a real alignment in beliefs and values and mission and you're kind of working towards like a bigger mission together.
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It's almost part of a movement.
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So for me, I think community is very much, yes, you can start to attract a community through social media.
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But then it's about understanding, well, how are you bringing those people together to facilitate conversations,
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problem solving, brainstorming, creativity, innovation?
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What does that relationship look like beyond you facilitating a space?
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Like what are the conversations happening?
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So that could be, yes, starting as a newsletter, maybe Substack is a good example because I would say that is a community for email,
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newsletter writers, journalists, authors.
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It's fantastic because it allows that engagement, allow group engagement, questions, answers.
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I'm part of some really great communities on them that leverage this space by putting on lives and allowing people to problem solve together and ask questions.
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And that to me is a community.
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And so I think, yeah, when we're talking about brands and the considerations that they might want to have when it comes to building a community,
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I think first and foremost, it's really important to understand
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what does your community need and how can you meet them where they're at in their lives with the challenges that they have with the things that are keeping them up at night?
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And there are some really simple exercises you can do.
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One that I also just people to do is to write 50 questions that they may be asking.
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They may be Googling, they may have asked you in the past, it could be your FAQs.
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But really get a sense of what is it that you can do to provide value and to show that you have this level of authority and experience and knowledge and value to share.
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So that you are able to serve a purpose so that you're able to support them and serve them.
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And then the question is, how will you then manifest this?
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How will you offer this value?
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Are you going to put on events?
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Are you going to bring them into a room and create an experiential experience and events for them to engage and connect as a community?
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Is there going to be an online platform?
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We have so many brilliant platforms now, Discord, Circle, which is on IU's, Mighty Networks, etc.
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There are Facebook groups, which I wouldn't promote, but they're there and there are some amazing communities on Facebook as well.
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And then really thinking, yeah, how are we going to turn an audience into an engaged community?
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How are we going to get feedback from them?
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How are we going to find out how we can be doing things better?
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How can we make them feel special?
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How can we invite them to exclusively IP lists so they can be the first to know when we're launching this new thing?
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How can we invite them to become a founding member?
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So there's lots of stuff there that brands can consider beyond starting an email list and building an audience online on social media.
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Yeah, okay, interesting.
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And then you're conscious that you've learned over time as to how to spark a community or how to lead a community better.
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Have you sort of got advice for yourself if you were looking back?
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Oh, yes, that's a really good question.
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It takes time.
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It really takes time.
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And, you know, my mission hasn't necessarily changed, but it's evolved.
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And I think sometimes you can find yourself in a situation where if you're not fully honest with yourself or like transparent about everything you're trying to do,
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it won't translate in the things that you're doing externally.
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And therefore you might find yourself either not attracting the right kind of people or attracting the wrong kind of people.
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And so I think being really clear on your values and revisiting them often, having these as guiding principles and checking in and saying,
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am I still leading by example?
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Am I still doing the things that are really important to me?
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Am I falling into a trap of answering all the demands of, you know, multiple different people with multiple different needs?
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Because I fall into that trap a few times and I found myself overworked.
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And becoming resentful because I've wanted to please everyone.
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And that also comes, you know, that's down to me being a people pleaser, which I'm it's an ongoing like work in progress.
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But I think, you know, when you when you when you start a community, when you're building one, you do it because you're really passionate about something.
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And you want to serve people and you want to say yes to everyone.
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So I think actually understanding what those boundaries are would be really important and understanding what the do's and don'ts are,
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what your prepared to do, what you're not prepared to do.
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And also actually being quite fluid at the same time.
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So being open to feedback and actually saying, oh, I hadn't thought about that because we we're so sitting our ways.
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One of the most amazing things about having a community is you'll think they want a certain product or service.
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You'll go out and you'll test the market and it'll be signed totally different.
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And you'll be like, I'm so glad I asked my community because if you have a community, you can ask them this kind of stuff and save yourself months of wasted money in time.
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Because actually, if you're building for an engaged community that you've already got, it's much makes way more sense to have an engaged community,
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test a couple of ideas, hypotheses, you know, and get some validation about that idea and then roll something out that you know they're chomping at the bit for.
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And I always use the example of content Inc. Joe Polizzi has written a book that talked about, you know, how to build a community and engage and have deeper relationships with people through the content you're creating.
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And actually, he flips this idea of entrepreneurship on its head and says, if you approach entrepreneurship through community building and content creation first,
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you start to get a much better idea and quicker of what people need and where to direct your time and energy and money so that you're not wasting time building something that actually people don't want or need.
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Did that answer your question?
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I think so, absolutely. But it's interesting, lots of things in this world are kind of in a slight tension, right? So you're saying needs to be really clear on the values and the kind of the mission,
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but at the same time being quite fluid and responsive to things as they, as they come up.
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Yeah, you're always sort of, absolutely. It's being centered in your purpose and what you're doing. So if it's a brand, it's like, so what do we stand for? What do we try and do in the world?
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And I think actually the how is, is evolving, it's ever evolving. So what are we trying to do? What change do we want to see in the world?
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What's our vision for the world? Should always be pretty kind of clear. But how we do that, how that manifests, how we deliver value and how we serve our community will be ever evolving.
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I mean, just look at the last five years and how much the world has changed. I hadn't even heard of Zoom before lockdown.
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And then Zoom happened and I ran my business and generated six figures in 12 months through Zoom. You know, like, it's my mind is blown by that.
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And I think if we're so set in our ways about how we're going to do things and then something like that comes up again, we need to actually open our mind to different ways of doing things so that we can show up in a way that our community needs and we know is going to add value and work for them and our.
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It's interesting too, because I can hear some people listening to this, I suspect, will be coming from different angles because there will be some who will be thinking maybe they're a marketing leader in a more traditional brand or a more traditional band background.
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And they'll be thinking this community powered branding can feel like it's a long way from the bottom line, whereas you are very relaxed or very confident talking about the bottom line if you like this is turning into products and services and revenue.
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And on the flip side, there's also some people who may be thinking a community is a very interrelational thing and really uncomfortable when it starts to turn into transactions and business in that sense.
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So is that attention you're kind of conscious of managing or is it just something that comes very naturally to you as a kind of insight?
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Yes. Okay, that's a really good question.
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So I think to start with the initial, like potential reservations. I think if you're not building an engaged audience, you are missing a trick of having these true fans, people who will repeatedly buy from you because you've built this no like trust relationship, which is a framework I was used,
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especially in that initial attract phase. So if you're looking through the lens of building an engaged community of brand advocates, that can only be a good thing for building brand advocacy, repeat business, people who are going to recommend you to everybody else,
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that word of mouth marketing piece, there's so much more in this. And this is why I think the term community is so misunderstood, because it's so much more than just having a group of people that like what you do.
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It's so much more than that. And I think maybe it would be easier if we talked about it in the sense, you know, like customer client demographics and pipeline, you know, however you want to look at it.
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We want to build these brand advocates who want to keep coming back for more, right, that that's it. And the way I look at that is through well, how can we build an engaged community and look through the lens of what it means to build relationships beyond how can we sell to these people?
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Because then that can there can only be a good thing in that. And like I say, it's that feedback piece, it's the word of mouthpiece, it's the recommendations referrals, advocates, all of that is going to create more revenue for a brand.
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And then yes, on the flip side, which is the camp I was in, I really struggled for a very long time, because I built this community to feel connected to people.
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I wanted people to feel seen and heard and supported in a way that I didn't feel when I first embarked on my journey of building my first business and then having a baby.
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And actually, I probably prolonged the process of like actually monetizing the community platform for about six months and got myself into personal debt, because I was paying for nursery fees.
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I was building a business I'd realized needed to become a business because people are saying, can you do this? Can you do that? I want to, you know, can code tap and need a membership?
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How are we going to connect with people? And I was like, God, all these people like they need this, they're asking for it. But that's going to cost money, right?
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And I had to shift that mindset and think, well, this is a value exchange. Yes, I'm building a community and I build a community to connect people to support people on their own journeys and for them to feel less alone.
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But at the same time, they need a service. They're asking for more support. And this is the way I can do that.
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And I think there's different ways you can go about it. You can have free communities where you rely on sponsorship and partnerships.
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I know plenty of people who do that. They're struggling right now because they haven't been able to secure the sponsorships that they wanted to.
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I think the world of sponsorship and brand partnerships is changing all the time and it's changed quite a lot recently.
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You know, and I'm talking like big fintech companies and banks who are kind of tightening the purse strings on sponsorship and people who have been relying on that as a part of their business model are now saying, we don't know what we're going to do.
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I don't know how we're going to continue serving the community because, you know, our community members don't have the funds to pay for this and we're not getting a sponsorship.
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And then there are other people that charge a nominal fee. You know, our community membership as a standard fee is $19.99 a month or $195 for the year. And that seems accessible to people.
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If people message me and they say, I can't afford it anymore, or there are people on maternity leave or they're just starting out, we won't, we will have no questions asked.
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We will offer a discount. We'll give free access. You know, so we want it to be accessible and we want this to make a difference in people's lives.
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So I think it's also about understanding like, who are you serving? What do they need? And what do you need in order to make a success?
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And it's also about thinking if we need to, if we want to have more impact and serve these people in the way that they need, want, desire and deserve, then that will come at a price at some point.
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And I think it's down to the individual, the brand or the business to ask, OK, so what does that look like? You know, there are brands out there that have subscriptions.
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Pay 10, 5, 30 pounds, whatever it may be a month to be a member of our community. You get these products through the door.
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You get these services, you get discounts to this. You know, there's all sorts of ways you can do a value exchange and feel comfortable about monetising the community.
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So you can continue serving them and have the impact you want to see and have in the world.
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That's interesting.
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Now, you normally ask here some questions around the things that people leaders aren't talking about enough and you're in between so many different worlds, I guess.
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So let's pick up with that marketing thing, but first of all, I mean, are you conscious that there's a kind of conversation that you'd like marketing leaders to be talking about more or having more of them?
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Marketing, yes, I think it's such a noisy world. It is such a noisy world. Everyone is fighting people's attention. Everyone wants, you know, that kind of like, I don't know what the number of seconds is now that we have.
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I think it was seven at one point. I think it might even be less than that.
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We don't have no time at all to grab people's attention. And I think what really moves people is emotion is being personable, is being human. And actually, people are seeing through the bullshit.
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I don't know if we can spell on this podcast. People are seeing through the bullshit of smokes, mirrors, bells and whistles, you know, people don't want glossy, people want real life, people want to see the values behind the brand,
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people want to know that this business that they're investing their time, money, energy into is purposeful and building a better future.
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Because right now we are in a total global crisis of all kinds, humanitarian, social, governmental, policy based, environmental, economical.
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And I think people want to see genuinity and vulnerability and they want to see themselves in the brands that they're supporting.
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They want to see real life stories told. They want authentic experiences. They want opportunities to connect with other people within those spaces.
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I actually heard of a phrase the other day, a word that's been coined. People want to offset this idea of end shitification or crapification, which is where a platform essentially decays over time.
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So it's this pattern in which online products and services decline in quality, right? So they build something, they grow, they're like, yeah, we've made it.
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And then they start to like either they lose, they get complacent. I think people see through that and people want to know that their future, their lives, their well-being is being considered in the brands that they're supporting.
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So I think from a marketing perspective, it's kind of going back to this idea of what does our community need? What's keeping them up at night?
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How can we support them and how can we tell stories that are going to resonate with them and inspire them or motivate them or educate them or entertain them?
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There has to be something there hook. And actually, going back to the point about it being such a noisy world, if you've built an engaged community, they will continue seeing your content.
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They'll continue engaging with it because they are engaged and they believe in what you're doing. If you haven't got that relationship in place,
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they won't have any brand advocacy for you. And if something else shows up and their brand story resonates more, then they're not going to think twice about using another product or brand or service.
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It's interesting. I mean, I guess there's another part of your story, but it's very live for us just now because lots of companies and government agencies,
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there's all people label sessions just now about encouraging more female entrepreneurs. You talk about in Founder Flores, they're going to get 1.1 million missing businesses.
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Lots of people talk, maybe there's an element of seeing through the bullshit here. What do you think are some of the key things that can actually be done to go out?
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Oh my gosh. How long have you got? Well, do you know what? Eight years ago, I didn't see anything that really resonated with me and now there are so many amazing communities and networks.
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I think that's one of my challenges now. It's like, how do we continue to differentiate ourselves? Because there are so many other people on a similar mission, so many other people.
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And I think that can only be a good thing. I think more, do you know what? And I think it's happening, but it's just not happening quick enough.
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And the problem is like, you have too many, you don't have enough women in policy making roles. We don't have enough women in government.
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We don't have enough people making decisions on affordable childcare and things like that. So you've already got this barrier that a lot of women are facing when they're taking return to leave and having a baby and taking some time off.
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You know, it's harder to get back into work. It's harder to access the resources and support they need. I can't remember the stats off the top of my head. It's probably changed, but it's something like less than 0.03% black women get invested in by VCs.
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And there's an awful percentage of just women in general, not as bad as the initial stat, I just said, but there are huge issues here.
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Diversity issues, gender bias issues. And we need more women at the top everywhere. And this is why I'm so passionate about this idea of making money for good and really honing in on how we can support especially women and non-binary people to do this.
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Because money equals power. And I think if more women felt empowered with the tools and the support and the frameworks that they need to make a shit ton of money, then it kind of affords them to be in those positions of power where they can make more decisions, where they can have more impact, where they can
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lead, you know, policymaking decisions and things like that. I mean, that's not a black and white answer to solving this problem. But I think it's definitely one of many solutions.
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And I'm not an expert on all the other topics. So I won't even go there. But that, that from from my perspective, I think we're already creating more spaces, we're already talking about the fact we need more female founders being invested in.
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I think we just need to be having more of these conversations, which is why it's so great to see so many communities and networks out there on a similar mission, because we're kind of, you know, attacking at all different angles and sharing stories from all over the world.
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And, you know, people are starting to take notice. But I think I read somewhere that the gender gap has actually widened, which is quite terrifying. And when you have people like a certain someone coming into power overseas, people are very worried about that, what that means for women in general.
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And gender equality. And with new laws being introduced all over the world to take away women's rights, even more, it's quite a scary place to be as a woman. So I think having more support systems and people advocating for women and creating safe spaces for them to be vulnerable
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to say, hey, I don't actually know how to do this, but I really have this idea. And I think it's going to change lives. How do I do this? And knowing that there's enough support out there and money to invest in these women and their ideas to, yeah, elevate them and to increase their chances of success.
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Interesting. So to organize and mobilize, I guess, across all these different areas, this is going to fit in the, I want to, there's some quick fire quaffion questions in a minute, but I'll ask one more serious one, which is, you know, your story is an incredible story.
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And it's both like, in terms of you just throwing in dealing with COVID in terms of in the pandemic and having an event space Christmas that has to be online and all these kind of personal stories. How do you kind of manage your own resilience? Are you conscious of tools you go back to to kind of keep going?
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Yes, it is definitely a work in progress. I have not nailed this. But I think one of the things I'm so grateful for when it comes to being able to run a community is that we are in events. I don't even say we're in events business, but part of our offering is events.
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So we run a lot of workshops, masterclasses, panel events, we interview people. And I've been very fortunate to interview some amazing women, especially especially in the coaching world, who have imparted so much amazing wisdom.
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So for me, I think it's going back to understanding our energy levels, understanding when actually we need to close the laptop, stop bashing our head against the desk and take a beat, come back to another time. I think knowing that it's not, it's only personal to you.
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I am a very sensitive person. And I know that. And I think often, you know, if you hear and know, or things don't go your way, you take it personally and you think, what could I have done better?
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Come back to people pleasing tendencies, it might come back to just being a founder and being so feeling so exposed, running a community is also quite exposing when things don't go your way.
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Not assuming that it's your fault. And that actually it's probably that it wasn't right for that person, it wasn't the right timing for that business. It's not necessarily what people need right now.
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Or it is what people need, but just not those people. And so I think reminding myself of why I'm doing what I'm doing, going back to all the nice things that have been said to me and about me when I'm feeling a little bit like imposter syndrome is striking.
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And having a really tight network of supporters and mentors, that is so key. And I think that should not be underestimated. And that's why again, the power of community is so important.
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Having people that you can turn to who's been there and maybe their five, 10 steps ahead, maybe even one, just saying, I'm really struggling with this thing.
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Help me, it's not me, you know, and having advocates who will say, it's not you. This is normal.
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Go to bed, go and have a bath, go and see some friends, get up and do it again tomorrow. And I think that's what resilience is.
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It's also knowing actually when to take a step back and to find things that bring you joy outside of your work, spending time with family, going for a ride, going for a swim, drawing.
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I've got really into sculpting at the moment. So it's the one thing that I do that I'm fully immersed in where I'm not thinking about business, my phone, anything, you know, my hands are preoccupied.
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And for me that's...
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I'm not sure we've had a sculpting, but...
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Well, I don't know if sculpt... I don't know if it's the right word to use because when I mentioned that to a friend, she like burst out laughing.
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I was like, you're not a sculptor, but I do. I make pots like on a weekly basis. I would call that sculpting.
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And I actually use a clay from a brand called Sculpt, which is an incredible brand that I was introduced to during lockdown.
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I was sent a little package from my sister and she was like, do this, you'll love it. And I've been hooked ever since.
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So I think it's about finding your joy. It's about finding things that allow you to feel connected to the wider mission that you're on and being surrounded by people that are going to cheerlead you and support you when you might be feeling a bit depleted.
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That's pretty good advice, I think. I think it's really interesting as well, like the importance of stepping away sometimes.
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A lot of founders, you can get sucked into thinking that everything must be solvable with some more effort or with some more time. It's interesting. That's actually another way people work, but you become a really bad boss to yourself.
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Absolutely. That is so true. So treat yourself how you treat a friend. Talk to yourself how you talk to a friend.
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Yeah. Okay. Let's go into a few fun quickfire questions to get to know you a bit better. So just the first thing that pops into your head. The first one's interesting. Could your friends explain what you do?
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Yeah, I think so, to some degree. Yeah, community builder, problem solver, make shit happen, advocate for making money for good. I think they're the main things. Maybe firefighter as well.
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They all seem to be like firefighting something.
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What's the best advice you've ever been given?
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Your time is your most valuable asset. Spend it wisely and price it accordingly.
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Okay. There's a lot in that one. That's good. What could you not live without?
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So in life, that's a big question. The beach.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah, I live by the beach. I live in Worthing. So yeah, I'm on the coast. I think for me, just like being in open space, especially having lived in London, where there wasn't a huge amount of it, although I loved the parks.
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Yeah, the beach is a big one. I go there and I need to just let my thoughts kind of wonder. Workwise, it sounds so stereotypical, but yeah, I'd probably say my phone.
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I actually run most of my business on there now. It's mad how much you can do just with this tiny device. But yeah, boring arts, I'm afraid.
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I think that's a good answer. And the final one, which we asked everyone, which is on a scale of one to ten, how weird are you?
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Well, I have spent my whole life as an undiagnosed neurodivergent. So I would say pretty weird. And actually now I'm just fully embracing the weirdness. So I'll give it an eight.
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Pretty good. That's really nice.
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Yeah.
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Hello and welcome to the Label Sessions Presents podcast.
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Label Sessions is the world's leading innovation expert network.
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In this series, you will meet some of the most interesting leaders anywhere from across
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the world's business, design, tech, culture and sustainability.
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All signed to the Label Sessions roster.
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To find out more about our work, helping brands and institutions around the world take on
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their big challenges for the future, head to LabelSessions.com to find out more.
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For now, enjoy the podcast.
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And we're alive.
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Absolutely.
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Good.
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Well, first of all, welcome Laura.
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It's great to have you on the podcast and part of Label Sessions.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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Let's dive in.
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So, and actually go into the key topic.
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So, community, brands, how they work together, what's your view on that?
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What is a community around a brand?
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Oh, you put me on the spot there.
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So, community as, I mean, community in itself, I think is something that we grossly underestimate
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when it comes to its impact.
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It's become a bit of a buzzword.
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So, everyone talks about needing community, but then everyone's like, yeah, but what does
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that actually mean?
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And I think when it comes to being a brand, there are so many benefits to having a community
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from the ideation stage of maybe building something new, launching something, getting
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that initial feedback, building brand advocacy, having, you know, this community of, I like
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to use the example of Kevin Kelly's essay.
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He talks about the importance of having a thousand true fans.
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You know, gone are the days where we want to go viral and have millions of followers
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because those millions of followers might only equate to a very small portion of percentage
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of people who are actually willing to pot with their money to buy your brand, you know,
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buy into your mission, your values and all of that stuff.
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Whereas actually, if we approach community from this through the lens of building a tight
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community of true fans, you only need a thousand true fans who, let's say, want to pay £100
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across the year to generate £100,000 a year.
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So that feels much more accessible and realistic than trying to, you know, build a huge audience
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of people that aren't necessarily fully integrated into this movement you're trying to build
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and create.
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So for me, and you can probably tell I'm very passionate about community, I could talk about
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it all day.
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So I'll try and keep these answers as succinct as possible.
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But community is your audience, your social media following, your brand family, your advocates,
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or they're not just your customers.
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And I think when we can look at community as a key priority to building a brand, we're
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building it from the foundations of trust and values alignment and all the wonderful
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things that come hand in hand with prioritising building community around whatever business
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or brand or product or service you're looking to create.
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Okay, really interesting, and how did you come to be working in this field?
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How did that story all happen?
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So I definitely fell into it, like most people do, I think.
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I never grew up thinking I'm going to be a community builder when I'm older.
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But I'm a business strategist, a community builder.
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I'm a speaker, founder, founder and flourish.
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Now founder and flourish is a community for purpose-led founders on a mission to make
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money for good, to have an impact in the world, but to not neglect that profit element, which
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so many people who are looking to build wonderful, purposeful businesses tend to see as an afterthought.
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So that's definitely evolved over the last seven to eight years.
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I studied media and communication at university.
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I moved my way up the ladder in the media industry, found myself burning out just before
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I turned 30 and thought, right, that's it, I'm out.
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And I set up my first profitable business.
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I've had lots of ideas over the last 20 years, some awful, some not so awful, but I didn't
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have the resources, the community, the support that I needed to make those ideas into a reality
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that was going to work in the business world.
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So when I burned out and I left my job without Plan B, I was very excited.
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And then after my 30th birthday, I was like, what have I done?
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And I felt very lonely and isolated.
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So I set up my consultancy and about a year later, everything was going great, got pregnant,
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had a baby.
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And for me, everything changed then because I realized that not only am I meandering through
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the ups and downs of running a business, but I'm also bringing up a human.
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And I was thrown into a new world of challenges of loneliness.
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And so I decided I would go on the hunt of a community that I could be a part of, wanted
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to find something that really resonated with me.
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I'm very values driven.
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So if I don't see my values kind of at the forefront of anything I'm looking at, I'm
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not interested and completely disengaged.
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And very quickly, I realized this is back in 2018.
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And there wasn't really much of a, there weren't any communities that resonated with what was
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important to me.
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And so I decided to start one and that community is found and flourished.
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And it started as a newsletter.
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Then we moved into a founder sort of interview series.
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We partnered with different venues across London and we interviewed female founders who were
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braving the world of entrepreneurship.
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We called the series How She Did It and very quickly the community grew into what was then
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going to be my second business and my full-time job.
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And so I realized very early on the importance of community and how much people craved to
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feel connected and heard and seen and understood in different environments, offline and online,
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bearing minuses pre-COVID.
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And it kind of became a beast of itself.
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I realized within six to 12 months that it was something that I was either going to have
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to walk away from because I didn't have the capacity or put everything into it.
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I was also studying naturopathic medicine at the time.
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I was running my consultancy.
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So I made some difficult decisions and I put everything into found and flourished.
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And so yeah, we've kind of grown organically over the last seven years.
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We've got over 40,000 people within our network.
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We pivoted during COVID, which was an exciting time.
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And we turned into a fully online business.
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And now we're kind of obviously blending back into in real life experiences, offline events
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as well as online and then managing our platform online.
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So that's kind of something where there are like practical elements in the journey of
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how I've gone from having this initial kind of like challenge in my life and building
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community and then understanding through those experiences just how important community
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is.
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And since then, my passions have evolved into looking at micro communities, understanding
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the importance of third spaces.
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You know, there are so many community groups that have closed down and ceased to exist,
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whether that's, you know, community centers, YMCA's, town halls, physical spaces, but
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also online spaces.
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And I think a lot of the challenges people are facing now with, well, how do we make
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these spaces profitable?
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How can we keep them going?
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Because our time is money and running a community is costly and it takes a lot of time.
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So I see this as a big challenge and a problem to solve.
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And so I kind of weave in my own experiences of running and growing a community with my
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consulting, my business strategy and the community building work I do with startups, founders,
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et cetera, et cetera.
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And yeah, that's kind of where I'm at now.
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And that's sort of my journey and my interest in community.
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And now this not new mission, but this mission that I'm so passionate about, which is, yeah,
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to find the world of business and community building for people, educating people as young
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as like that student level all the way through to people running big corporations and whether
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we're talking about educating students on entrepreneurship cohorts, the importance of
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building community around a business idea, all the way through to businesses, building
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communities as part of company culture and then everything in between.
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So there's a real kind of like breadth to the way I see community and its importance
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in our world, society, cultures and businesses.
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So much in that to open up in different ways.
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One thing that's really interesting maybe in the founder of Flourish Story, people listening,
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that may come from a more traditional background of brand building because they might see how
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you start with a newsletter and you get to a position where you've got thousands of followers.
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But you see that very much as a community platform.
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I mean, how do you approach that differently?
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Are you conscious all the way through of making different choices?
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Are you trying to build a community brand rather than a more traditional one or is it different from that?
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So I think people misunderstand.
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The I think people get confused between, let's say, social media audiences and community.
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So it's a really good question because a lot of the time people will say they have a community
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but they just have followers on Instagram.
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And yes, there is this element of having a two way conversation, but there's a real like difference.
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So community, an audience is what you have on social media or on email list.
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You'll be talking to then you might get one or two responses, but it's very much like you're speaking to an audience.
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The difference between that and a community is there are multiple conversations happening.
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There's a real alignment in beliefs and values and mission and you're kind of working towards like a bigger mission together.
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It's almost part of a movement.
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So for me, I think community is very much, yes, you can start to attract a community through social media.
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But then it's about understanding, well, how are you bringing those people together to facilitate conversations,
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problem solving, brainstorming, creativity, innovation?
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What does that relationship look like beyond you facilitating a space?
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Like what are the conversations happening?
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So that could be, yes, starting as a newsletter, maybe Substack is a good example because I would say that is a community for email,
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newsletter writers, journalists, authors.
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It's fantastic because it allows that engagement, allow group engagement, questions, answers.
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I'm part of some really great communities on them that leverage this space by putting on lives and allowing people to problem solve together and ask questions.
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And that to me is a community.
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And so I think, yeah, when we're talking about brands and the considerations that they might want to have when it comes to building a community,
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I think first and foremost, it's really important to understand
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what does your community need and how can you meet them where they're at in their lives with the challenges that they have with the things that are keeping them up at night?
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And there are some really simple exercises you can do.
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One that I also just people to do is to write 50 questions that they may be asking.
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They may be Googling, they may have asked you in the past, it could be your FAQs.
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But really get a sense of what is it that you can do to provide value and to show that you have this level of authority and experience and knowledge and value to share.
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So that you are able to serve a purpose so that you're able to support them and serve them.
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And then the question is, how will you then manifest this?
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How will you offer this value?
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Are you going to put on events?
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Are you going to bring them into a room and create an experiential experience and events for them to engage and connect as a community?
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Is there going to be an online platform?
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We have so many brilliant platforms now, Discord, Circle, which is on IU's, Mighty Networks, etc.
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There are Facebook groups, which I wouldn't promote, but they're there and there are some amazing communities on Facebook as well.
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And then really thinking, yeah, how are we going to turn an audience into an engaged community?
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How are we going to get feedback from them?
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How are we going to find out how we can be doing things better?
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How can we make them feel special?
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How can we invite them to exclusively IP lists so they can be the first to know when we're launching this new thing?
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How can we invite them to become a founding member?
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So there's lots of stuff there that brands can consider beyond starting an email list and building an audience online on social media.
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Yeah, okay, interesting.
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And then you're conscious that you've learned over time as to how to spark a community or how to lead a community better.
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Have you sort of got advice for yourself if you were looking back?
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Oh, yes, that's a really good question.
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It takes time.
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It really takes time.
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And, you know, my mission hasn't necessarily changed, but it's evolved.
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And I think sometimes you can find yourself in a situation where if you're not fully honest with yourself or like transparent about everything you're trying to do,
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it won't translate in the things that you're doing externally.
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And therefore you might find yourself either not attracting the right kind of people or attracting the wrong kind of people.
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And so I think being really clear on your values and revisiting them often, having these as guiding principles and checking in and saying,
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am I still leading by example?
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Am I still doing the things that are really important to me?
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Am I falling into a trap of answering all the demands of, you know, multiple different people with multiple different needs?
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Because I fall into that trap a few times and I found myself overworked.
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And becoming resentful because I've wanted to please everyone.
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And that also comes, you know, that's down to me being a people pleaser, which I'm it's an ongoing like work in progress.
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But I think, you know, when you when you when you start a community, when you're building one, you do it because you're really passionate about something.
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And you want to serve people and you want to say yes to everyone.
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So I think actually understanding what those boundaries are would be really important and understanding what the do's and don'ts are,
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what your prepared to do, what you're not prepared to do.
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And also actually being quite fluid at the same time.
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So being open to feedback and actually saying, oh, I hadn't thought about that because we we're so sitting our ways.
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One of the most amazing things about having a community is you'll think they want a certain product or service.
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You'll go out and you'll test the market and it'll be signed totally different.
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And you'll be like, I'm so glad I asked my community because if you have a community, you can ask them this kind of stuff and save yourself months of wasted money in time.
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Because actually, if you're building for an engaged community that you've already got, it's much makes way more sense to have an engaged community,
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test a couple of ideas, hypotheses, you know, and get some validation about that idea and then roll something out that you know they're chomping at the bit for.
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And I always use the example of content Inc. Joe Polizzi has written a book that talked about, you know, how to build a community and engage and have deeper relationships with people through the content you're creating.
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And actually, he flips this idea of entrepreneurship on its head and says, if you approach entrepreneurship through community building and content creation first,
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you start to get a much better idea and quicker of what people need and where to direct your time and energy and money so that you're not wasting time building something that actually people don't want or need.
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Did that answer your question?
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I think so, absolutely. But it's interesting, lots of things in this world are kind of in a slight tension, right? So you're saying needs to be really clear on the values and the kind of the mission,
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but at the same time being quite fluid and responsive to things as they, as they come up.
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Yeah, you're always sort of, absolutely. It's being centered in your purpose and what you're doing. So if it's a brand, it's like, so what do we stand for? What do we try and do in the world?
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And I think actually the how is, is evolving, it's ever evolving. So what are we trying to do? What change do we want to see in the world?
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What's our vision for the world? Should always be pretty kind of clear. But how we do that, how that manifests, how we deliver value and how we serve our community will be ever evolving.
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I mean, just look at the last five years and how much the world has changed. I hadn't even heard of Zoom before lockdown.
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And then Zoom happened and I ran my business and generated six figures in 12 months through Zoom. You know, like, it's my mind is blown by that.
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And I think if we're so set in our ways about how we're going to do things and then something like that comes up again, we need to actually open our mind to different ways of doing things so that we can show up in a way that our community needs and we know is going to add value and work for them and our.
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It's interesting too, because I can hear some people listening to this, I suspect, will be coming from different angles because there will be some who will be thinking maybe they're a marketing leader in a more traditional brand or a more traditional band background.
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And they'll be thinking this community powered branding can feel like it's a long way from the bottom line, whereas you are very relaxed or very confident talking about the bottom line if you like this is turning into products and services and revenue.
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And on the flip side, there's also some people who may be thinking a community is a very interrelational thing and really uncomfortable when it starts to turn into transactions and business in that sense.
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So is that attention you're kind of conscious of managing or is it just something that comes very naturally to you as a kind of insight?
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Yes. Okay, that's a really good question.
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So I think to start with the initial, like potential reservations. I think if you're not building an engaged audience, you are missing a trick of having these true fans, people who will repeatedly buy from you because you've built this no like trust relationship, which is a framework I was used,
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especially in that initial attract phase. So if you're looking through the lens of building an engaged community of brand advocates, that can only be a good thing for building brand advocacy, repeat business, people who are going to recommend you to everybody else,
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that word of mouth marketing piece, there's so much more in this. And this is why I think the term community is so misunderstood, because it's so much more than just having a group of people that like what you do.
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It's so much more than that. And I think maybe it would be easier if we talked about it in the sense, you know, like customer client demographics and pipeline, you know, however you want to look at it.
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We want to build these brand advocates who want to keep coming back for more, right, that that's it. And the way I look at that is through well, how can we build an engaged community and look through the lens of what it means to build relationships beyond how can we sell to these people?
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Because then that can there can only be a good thing in that. And like I say, it's that feedback piece, it's the word of mouthpiece, it's the recommendations referrals, advocates, all of that is going to create more revenue for a brand.
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And then yes, on the flip side, which is the camp I was in, I really struggled for a very long time, because I built this community to feel connected to people.
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I wanted people to feel seen and heard and supported in a way that I didn't feel when I first embarked on my journey of building my first business and then having a baby.
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And actually, I probably prolonged the process of like actually monetizing the community platform for about six months and got myself into personal debt, because I was paying for nursery fees.
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I was building a business I'd realized needed to become a business because people are saying, can you do this? Can you do that? I want to, you know, can code tap and need a membership?
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How are we going to connect with people? And I was like, God, all these people like they need this, they're asking for it. But that's going to cost money, right?
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And I had to shift that mindset and think, well, this is a value exchange. Yes, I'm building a community and I build a community to connect people to support people on their own journeys and for them to feel less alone.
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But at the same time, they need a service. They're asking for more support. And this is the way I can do that.
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And I think there's different ways you can go about it. You can have free communities where you rely on sponsorship and partnerships.
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I know plenty of people who do that. They're struggling right now because they haven't been able to secure the sponsorships that they wanted to.
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I think the world of sponsorship and brand partnerships is changing all the time and it's changed quite a lot recently.
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You know, and I'm talking like big fintech companies and banks who are kind of tightening the purse strings on sponsorship and people who have been relying on that as a part of their business model are now saying, we don't know what we're going to do.
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I don't know how we're going to continue serving the community because, you know, our community members don't have the funds to pay for this and we're not getting a sponsorship.
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And then there are other people that charge a nominal fee. You know, our community membership as a standard fee is $19.99 a month or $195 for the year. And that seems accessible to people.
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If people message me and they say, I can't afford it anymore, or there are people on maternity leave or they're just starting out, we won't, we will have no questions asked.
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We will offer a discount. We'll give free access. You know, so we want it to be accessible and we want this to make a difference in people's lives.
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So I think it's also about understanding like, who are you serving? What do they need? And what do you need in order to make a success?
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And it's also about thinking if we need to, if we want to have more impact and serve these people in the way that they need, want, desire and deserve, then that will come at a price at some point.
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And I think it's down to the individual, the brand or the business to ask, OK, so what does that look like? You know, there are brands out there that have subscriptions.
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Pay 10, 5, 30 pounds, whatever it may be a month to be a member of our community. You get these products through the door.
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You get these services, you get discounts to this. You know, there's all sorts of ways you can do a value exchange and feel comfortable about monetising the community.
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So you can continue serving them and have the impact you want to see and have in the world.
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That's interesting.
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Now, you normally ask here some questions around the things that people leaders aren't talking about enough and you're in between so many different worlds, I guess.
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So let's pick up with that marketing thing, but first of all, I mean, are you conscious that there's a kind of conversation that you'd like marketing leaders to be talking about more or having more of them?
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Marketing, yes, I think it's such a noisy world. It is such a noisy world. Everyone is fighting people's attention. Everyone wants, you know, that kind of like, I don't know what the number of seconds is now that we have.
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I think it was seven at one point. I think it might even be less than that.
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We don't have no time at all to grab people's attention. And I think what really moves people is emotion is being personable, is being human. And actually, people are seeing through the bullshit.
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I don't know if we can spell on this podcast. People are seeing through the bullshit of smokes, mirrors, bells and whistles, you know, people don't want glossy, people want real life, people want to see the values behind the brand,
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people want to know that this business that they're investing their time, money, energy into is purposeful and building a better future.
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Because right now we are in a total global crisis of all kinds, humanitarian, social, governmental, policy based, environmental, economical.
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And I think people want to see genuinity and vulnerability and they want to see themselves in the brands that they're supporting.
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They want to see real life stories told. They want authentic experiences. They want opportunities to connect with other people within those spaces.
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I actually heard of a phrase the other day, a word that's been coined. People want to offset this idea of end shitification or crapification, which is where a platform essentially decays over time.
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So it's this pattern in which online products and services decline in quality, right? So they build something, they grow, they're like, yeah, we've made it.
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And then they start to like either they lose, they get complacent. I think people see through that and people want to know that their future, their lives, their well-being is being considered in the brands that they're supporting.
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So I think from a marketing perspective, it's kind of going back to this idea of what does our community need? What's keeping them up at night?
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How can we support them and how can we tell stories that are going to resonate with them and inspire them or motivate them or educate them or entertain them?
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There has to be something there hook. And actually, going back to the point about it being such a noisy world, if you've built an engaged community, they will continue seeing your content.
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They'll continue engaging with it because they are engaged and they believe in what you're doing. If you haven't got that relationship in place,
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they won't have any brand advocacy for you. And if something else shows up and their brand story resonates more, then they're not going to think twice about using another product or brand or service.
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It's interesting. I mean, I guess there's another part of your story, but it's very live for us just now because lots of companies and government agencies,
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there's all people label sessions just now about encouraging more female entrepreneurs. You talk about in Founder Flores, they're going to get 1.1 million missing businesses.
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Lots of people talk, maybe there's an element of seeing through the bullshit here. What do you think are some of the key things that can actually be done to go out?
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Oh my gosh. How long have you got? Well, do you know what? Eight years ago, I didn't see anything that really resonated with me and now there are so many amazing communities and networks.
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I think that's one of my challenges now. It's like, how do we continue to differentiate ourselves? Because there are so many other people on a similar mission, so many other people.
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And I think that can only be a good thing. I think more, do you know what? And I think it's happening, but it's just not happening quick enough.
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And the problem is like, you have too many, you don't have enough women in policy making roles. We don't have enough women in government.
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We don't have enough people making decisions on affordable childcare and things like that. So you've already got this barrier that a lot of women are facing when they're taking return to leave and having a baby and taking some time off.
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You know, it's harder to get back into work. It's harder to access the resources and support they need. I can't remember the stats off the top of my head. It's probably changed, but it's something like less than 0.03% black women get invested in by VCs.
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And there's an awful percentage of just women in general, not as bad as the initial stat, I just said, but there are huge issues here.
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Diversity issues, gender bias issues. And we need more women at the top everywhere. And this is why I'm so passionate about this idea of making money for good and really honing in on how we can support especially women and non-binary people to do this.
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Because money equals power. And I think if more women felt empowered with the tools and the support and the frameworks that they need to make a shit ton of money, then it kind of affords them to be in those positions of power where they can make more decisions, where they can have more impact, where they can
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lead, you know, policymaking decisions and things like that. I mean, that's not a black and white answer to solving this problem. But I think it's definitely one of many solutions.
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And I'm not an expert on all the other topics. So I won't even go there. But that, that from from my perspective, I think we're already creating more spaces, we're already talking about the fact we need more female founders being invested in.
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I think we just need to be having more of these conversations, which is why it's so great to see so many communities and networks out there on a similar mission, because we're kind of, you know, attacking at all different angles and sharing stories from all over the world.
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And, you know, people are starting to take notice. But I think I read somewhere that the gender gap has actually widened, which is quite terrifying. And when you have people like a certain someone coming into power overseas, people are very worried about that, what that means for women in general.
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And gender equality. And with new laws being introduced all over the world to take away women's rights, even more, it's quite a scary place to be as a woman. So I think having more support systems and people advocating for women and creating safe spaces for them to be vulnerable
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to say, hey, I don't actually know how to do this, but I really have this idea. And I think it's going to change lives. How do I do this? And knowing that there's enough support out there and money to invest in these women and their ideas to, yeah, elevate them and to increase their chances of success.
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Interesting. So to organize and mobilize, I guess, across all these different areas, this is going to fit in the, I want to, there's some quick fire quaffion questions in a minute, but I'll ask one more serious one, which is, you know, your story is an incredible story.
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And it's both like, in terms of you just throwing in dealing with COVID in terms of in the pandemic and having an event space Christmas that has to be online and all these kind of personal stories. How do you kind of manage your own resilience? Are you conscious of tools you go back to to kind of keep going?
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Yes, it is definitely a work in progress. I have not nailed this. But I think one of the things I'm so grateful for when it comes to being able to run a community is that we are in events. I don't even say we're in events business, but part of our offering is events.
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So we run a lot of workshops, masterclasses, panel events, we interview people. And I've been very fortunate to interview some amazing women, especially especially in the coaching world, who have imparted so much amazing wisdom.
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So for me, I think it's going back to understanding our energy levels, understanding when actually we need to close the laptop, stop bashing our head against the desk and take a beat, come back to another time. I think knowing that it's not, it's only personal to you.
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I am a very sensitive person. And I know that. And I think often, you know, if you hear and know, or things don't go your way, you take it personally and you think, what could I have done better?
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Come back to people pleasing tendencies, it might come back to just being a founder and being so feeling so exposed, running a community is also quite exposing when things don't go your way.
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Not assuming that it's your fault. And that actually it's probably that it wasn't right for that person, it wasn't the right timing for that business. It's not necessarily what people need right now.
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Or it is what people need, but just not those people. And so I think reminding myself of why I'm doing what I'm doing, going back to all the nice things that have been said to me and about me when I'm feeling a little bit like imposter syndrome is striking.
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And having a really tight network of supporters and mentors, that is so key. And I think that should not be underestimated. And that's why again, the power of community is so important.
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Having people that you can turn to who's been there and maybe their five, 10 steps ahead, maybe even one, just saying, I'm really struggling with this thing.
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Help me, it's not me, you know, and having advocates who will say, it's not you. This is normal.
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Go to bed, go and have a bath, go and see some friends, get up and do it again tomorrow. And I think that's what resilience is.
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It's also knowing actually when to take a step back and to find things that bring you joy outside of your work, spending time with family, going for a ride, going for a swim, drawing.
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I've got really into sculpting at the moment. So it's the one thing that I do that I'm fully immersed in where I'm not thinking about business, my phone, anything, you know, my hands are preoccupied.
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And for me that's...
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I'm not sure we've had a sculpting, but...
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Well, I don't know if sculpt... I don't know if it's the right word to use because when I mentioned that to a friend, she like burst out laughing.
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I was like, you're not a sculptor, but I do. I make pots like on a weekly basis. I would call that sculpting.
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And I actually use a clay from a brand called Sculpt, which is an incredible brand that I was introduced to during lockdown.
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I was sent a little package from my sister and she was like, do this, you'll love it. And I've been hooked ever since.
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So I think it's about finding your joy. It's about finding things that allow you to feel connected to the wider mission that you're on and being surrounded by people that are going to cheerlead you and support you when you might be feeling a bit depleted.
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That's pretty good advice, I think. I think it's really interesting as well, like the importance of stepping away sometimes.
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A lot of founders, you can get sucked into thinking that everything must be solvable with some more effort or with some more time. It's interesting. That's actually another way people work, but you become a really bad boss to yourself.
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Absolutely. That is so true. So treat yourself how you treat a friend. Talk to yourself how you talk to a friend.
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Yeah. Okay. Let's go into a few fun quickfire questions to get to know you a bit better. So just the first thing that pops into your head. The first one's interesting. Could your friends explain what you do?
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Yeah, I think so, to some degree. Yeah, community builder, problem solver, make shit happen, advocate for making money for good. I think they're the main things. Maybe firefighter as well.
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They all seem to be like firefighting something.
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What's the best advice you've ever been given?
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Your time is your most valuable asset. Spend it wisely and price it accordingly.
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Okay. There's a lot in that one. That's good. What could you not live without?
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So in life, that's a big question. The beach.
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Oh, okay.
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Yeah, I live by the beach. I live in Worthing. So yeah, I'm on the coast. I think for me, just like being in open space, especially having lived in London, where there wasn't a huge amount of it, although I loved the parks.
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Yeah, the beach is a big one. I go there and I need to just let my thoughts kind of wonder. Workwise, it sounds so stereotypical, but yeah, I'd probably say my phone.
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I actually run most of my business on there now. It's mad how much you can do just with this tiny device. But yeah, boring arts, I'm afraid.
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I think that's a good answer. And the final one, which we asked everyone, which is on a scale of one to ten, how weird are you?
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Well, I have spent my whole life as an undiagnosed neurodivergent. So I would say pretty weird. And actually now I'm just fully embracing the weirdness. So I'll give it an eight.
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Pretty good. That's really nice.
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Yeah.
