Realtime, Dev Tooling, AWS Pain, and Sleep Resets

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Adam: Oh, I gotta share my screen.
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It's just my face.
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Hang on.
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Dax: Man.
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It is crazy how far we can fall.
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How far we can fall.
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I.
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Adam: This is the best
stream I've ever done.
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This hurts my soul Dax.
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Dax: Your title on Twitch is building
a Slack app with AWS Bedrock.
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That was so long ago.
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Adam: Okay.
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How do I change the title?
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Let's change the title.
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Dax: Welcome to the podcast.
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Adam: I, uh, I guess we don't
really have like a structure to,
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to shift into, do we, I have things
I wanna talk to you about today.
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Dax: Fire it off.
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Adam: So sleep.
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Have we talked about sleep?
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I'm in the middle of like a sleep rutt.
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Dax: Hmm.
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Adam: uh, do you ever, uh,
you're in your thirties, right?
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At least.
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I know I'm older than you, but Okay.
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I'm not that much older.
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I am that much older trash.
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It's up.
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Uh, so, I have the this has
happened a couple times before
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and I can't remember how long it
lasted, but I'm in like a week.
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Uh, it's been about a week of this where
I get up in the middle of the night.
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It's like the middle of my
sleep, my total sleep window.
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It's like two o'clock right now.
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Two to three.
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I basically cannot sleep from
the hours of two to three.
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Every night I wake up and I'm
just stuck awake for like an hour.
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Sometimes I take some
melatonin to fall back asleep.
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Sometimes I just wait long enough
and I eventually fall back asleep.
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But it's been a week now
of this and I can remember.
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This happening before, and Casey's
saying it was like cortisol levels,
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like your stress during the day
can lead to this where you can't
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sleep in the middle of the night.
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It's like a thing.
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I don't remember the name for
it, but have you ever had this?
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Dax: Okay, so this is really crazy
because I was literally talking to Liz
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an hour ago and she's, for the past
week, has had basically the same thing
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where she's randomly out of nowhere,
has been getting terrible sleep and
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Adam: Is she stressed?
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Dax: I don't know.
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I don't think so.
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I think, I can't think of anything
specifically that changed.
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and yeah, she says she
keeps waking up for her.
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It's not that time for her.
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It's like around like four or five.
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Adam: But it's the same time every night.
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Dax: Yeah.
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And then she'll start, she'll
feel terrible when she wakes up.
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Also, like she does not feel good.
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Adam: Yeah.
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Okay.
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So
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Dax: on?
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Is it
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Adam: I don't know.
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It must be the aliens.
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What was the alien thing in Miami?
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I did not get filled in
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Dax: Oh, there were aliens here.
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There were giant 30 foot tall aliens.
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Adam: And it's just as normal as
like those recordings that came out
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and they're like, there's aliens.
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It's, it's fine.
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Dax: it's Miami.
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You do, you know,
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Adam: aliens in Miami,
and it's just a thing.
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Now we just all accept that
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Dax: It's so funny.
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I can't believe that blew up as big
as it did because it's literally
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like three frames of a video
where it kind of looks like it.
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It's from so far away.
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It's like it's someone
filming from the top.
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Like they're in an apartment
and like a high rise.
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Down to the ground and it's a
night and it's like kind of like
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foggy and like w with there's some
light cutting through the fog.
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Yeah.
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And like for like three frames in the
clip, it looks like there's like a kind of
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an alien that like walks like a giant one
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Adam: Yeah.
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And that's what this all
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Dax: and that was it.
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And that everyone, everyone
started messaging me being
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like, are there aliens there?
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Like, what's going on?
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Adam: huh?
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Dax: There was also like
a thousand cop cars.
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It was like an insane number of cop
cars on the road, but it was just a
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bunch of kids like fighting in the mall.
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Adam: Oh, that's what it was.
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The police, that's the story,
is that there were just kids
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Dax: That's the story.
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That's the official story.
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Yes.
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It was just kids fighting in the
mall and then people were like
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running away and the cop showed up.
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Adam: And somebody got a, a
short video clip that looked
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like an alien, and here we are
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Dax: It's a long video clip and
there's, you watch the whole thing
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for the payoff of three frames where
it kind of looks like an alien.
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So.
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Adam: So it sounds less exciting
than maybe I thought it would be
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Dax: Yeah.
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But anyway, going back to your sleep.
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So I personally am the annoying person
that has never had sleep issues.
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Like, I fall asleep
within 10 minutes and I,
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Adam: I fall asleep fast.
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I've always done that.
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Doesn't matter what happened that day.
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I didn't have to work out.
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I didn't have to do anything.
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I can lay down and go to sleep when I
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Dax: Nice.
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Yeah.
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And then I'm just like
completely blacked out.
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Zero consciousness, no
dreams until, until I
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Adam: Well, so you wake, you go to
sleep and the next thing you know
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you're waking up in the morning
with no wake-ups in between.
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Dax: Yep.
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I
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Adam: Are you
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Dax: remember them.
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I might wake up 'cause, because
Liz sometimes says like, we
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have interactions at night and I
just don't remember them at all.
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But yeah, I have like no
recollection of waking up.
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Adam: So I, I was telling Casey
yesterday, I don't remember the last
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time that I went to sleep at night, even
before this, like this is an extreme
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issue where I'm literally up for like
an hour in the middle of the night.
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But even before that, I get
up every night at some point.
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Like I'm conscious, like I don't just
kind of come to, I like mostly 'cause
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I have to pee if I'm being honest.
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We really, I gotta
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Dax: what, what,
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Adam: there's something, I dunno,
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Dax: smallest bladder?
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Adam: issue maybe.
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I don't know.
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I feel like there's something
that it would explain it.
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It's gonna be really sad when
I die of like prostate cancer.
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And you guys all listen
to these episodes fondly.
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Dax: Oh no, that one's
like easy to manage.
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Like just take your prostate out
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Adam: Oh, yeah.
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Easy
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Dax: and then you get a
little, a little penis
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Adam: take it, take it out yourself.
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Like just go ahead and just make
an, an incision there and just
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pop the prostate out real quick.
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Dax: I am just saying of
the spectrum of cancers.
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I think that one is not bad.
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Adam: uh, uh, in terms of cancer,
it's the least horrible cancer.
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Got it.
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Okay.
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Dax: I'm just trying
to stay positive, Adam.
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Adam: Yeah, no.
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Okay.
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So I always at least have to pee,
but even aside from peeing, I
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feel like I'm up a couple times.
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I don't remember, literally in my
adult life, I don't remember the
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last time I went to bed at night and
then woke up and it was morning, and
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it was like I just slept all night.
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I know I did it as a kid, like I
can remember growing up that was
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just a thing I took for granted.
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And at some point in
adulthood it just went away.
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Never to come back.
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Dax: That's really weird.
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I've been like this since I was a baby.
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Like, you know how everyone is like
they have a newborn and is like a
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nightmare for several months, my
parents like, never had that with me.
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I would just go to sleep and then I,
they would put me down and I would
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just go to sleep and I wouldn't move
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Adam: Your parents are the
people that I hate, like
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Dax: Yeah.
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Well, no.
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My, my,
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Adam: our baby just sleeps.
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We don't know.
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I'm like, I love you, I hate you.
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Dax: got, they got karma.
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The, my brother was like
a colic baby, and that was
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Adam: Yeah.
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It's usually how it works.
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If you have more than one, one will
be way, way harder than the other.
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That's what I've gathered from
like anecdotal survey of like
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six families, mine included.
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Dax: Well.
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So what about sleeping?
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So another place is like when you
like travel on planes, like do you,
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are you able to sleep on planes or
is that not something that you do?
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Adam: I don't sleep
well in cars or planes.
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No, I just can't get comfortable.
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Maybe it's my height, like
I've never been able to get my
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Dax: Oh yeah.
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Adam: even with like a pillow in a plane.
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I just can't do it.
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I've tried, 'cause I've had
some overnight flights and
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Dax: So I have no problem
sleeping on a plane.
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Like I've had situations where I've fallen
asleep before the plane took off and I
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woke up 'cause I felt the plane land.
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Yeah.
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And it feels like time traveling or
it feels like teleportation, I guess.
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But there is one weird thing with
me where I don't know what it is,
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but you know how like when you fall
asleep on a plane or whatever, like
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your head like like rolls around?
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Adam: Sure it does.
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Yeah.
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I'm, I'm
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Dax: if, if you've never experienced it.
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Okay.
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But like.
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Everyone experiences this, but
for me it is like 10 times crazy.
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Like my head is like swinging around,
like knocking into the people next to me.
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Yeah.
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And it's people that have flowed with me,
I've probably like, smashed my head into,
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into them when they're sitting next to me.
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And it's, it's like always
a stranger, you know?
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So I have to get one of those like
neck pillow things just so it, like,
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Adam: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Dax: constraints how much my neck moves.
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'cause I'm like totally not in control.
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Adam: I think I've gotten those, like,
I've gotten like three different ones
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because I never actually take it with me.
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Once I get one,
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Dax: Yeah,
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Adam: comes home and then
I'm not gonna like take it.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So I've bought like three of
'em at the airports in case he's
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always like, we have two of these.
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Why do you keep buying these?
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And I don't even fall
asleep, so it's stupid.
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Dax: So do you have an eight sleep?
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A
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Adam: I don't have an eight sleep.
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I have a, uh, I'm gonna mess this up.
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A ChiliPad.
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Yeah.
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I think the company is ChiliPad,
but it's called an Oler maybe.
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And the app is called Sleep Me.
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Can I just go on a little tiny rant?
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It's very small about these smart product
companies and their naming of things.
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I have blinds, they're called, I thought
they were called Tilt Blinds, but
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they're made from a company, it used to
be my Smart Roller Blinds or something.
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Or no Tilt shades.
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They're roller shades.
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They were my Smart Roller shades
and the app, there's two apps.
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They didn't get really the old one.
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There's still a My Smartt Roller
Shade app and a Tilt app, and there's
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HomeBridge connectors for both of them.
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But then the company is like a whole
different, it's like Smarter Home.
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It's like, why can't they
just one name for the thing?
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And all the products
I, it drives me crazy.
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Dax: Think we have the same scale too.
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'cause I started talking about this and
I have the same issue with the scale
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where it's like a we thing scale, but
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Adam: but it's like Nokia now.
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Yes.
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Dax: And then I can
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Adam: get it together.
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Dax: the app and I know
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Adam: The app is always
something totally different.
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I have to open my Sleep Me app to
change my ER made by Chili Pad.
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Just like I cannot remember those things.
00:09:21.607 --> 00:09:23.437
And then the passwords, its a whole thing.
00:09:23.557 --> 00:09:24.547
Do you use a password manager?
00:09:24.547 --> 00:09:25.687
That's another conversation I wanna
00:09:25.822 --> 00:09:26.752
Dax: I use Bit Warden.
00:09:27.187 --> 00:09:27.757
Adam: Bit Warden.
00:09:27.817 --> 00:09:28.207
Okay.
00:09:28.552 --> 00:09:32.152
Dax: But you're in the Apple world, so
I'm assuming you just iCloud everything.
00:09:32.437 --> 00:09:33.997
Adam: You would think
that would be a good idea.
00:09:33.997 --> 00:09:37.087
But I use the worst possible thing,
which is LastPass, which I get made
00:09:37.087 --> 00:09:38.767
fun of every time I admit publicly.
00:09:39.727 --> 00:09:39.847
Dax: I
00:09:39.907 --> 00:09:42.577
Adam: once you have all your passwords,
well, it's had like a big breach.
00:09:42.577 --> 00:09:42.877
I think
00:09:42.937 --> 00:09:42.967
Dax: Oh,
00:09:42.972 --> 00:09:45.037
Adam: did like the one thing you
can't do as a password manager
00:09:45.037 --> 00:09:46.237
is like leak all the passwords.
00:09:47.827 --> 00:09:51.037
But when you and your spouse Bose
use it on all your devices, you know
00:09:51.037 --> 00:09:52.477
how hard it is to change a password
00:09:52.507 --> 00:09:52.837
Dax: Yeah.
00:09:52.867 --> 00:09:53.797
No, it is hard.
00:09:54.097 --> 00:09:54.877
It is difficult.
00:09:55.207 --> 00:09:57.697
So with your thing, have you tried
like cranking down the temperature
00:09:57.697 --> 00:10:00.187
so it just like freezes you at night?
00:10:00.307 --> 00:10:02.917
Adam: So this is what
Casey said to me yesterday.
00:10:03.427 --> 00:10:05.137
She said, is your uler low enough?
00:10:06.847 --> 00:10:08.137
I said, lemme check the Sleep Me app.
00:10:08.137 --> 00:10:09.277
No, I didn't really say that.
00:10:09.697 --> 00:10:11.182
I, I get so cold.
00:10:11.302 --> 00:10:14.602
I don't know, like I feel like I've
been so cold at night and I thought
00:10:14.602 --> 00:10:18.382
I ran hotter than, I mean, I'm a
big male and she's a small female.
00:10:18.382 --> 00:10:20.692
I thought I ran hotter, but
she, I found out hers is like
00:10:20.692 --> 00:10:21.802
10 degrees colder than mine.
00:10:22.027 --> 00:10:23.467
Dax: Li Liz runs hotter than I do.
00:10:23.557 --> 00:10:26.092
Like she usually wants
everything colder than I do.
00:10:26.692 --> 00:10:29.452
Adam: So I, maybe I should turn mine
down 'cause I have it pretty high
00:10:29.452 --> 00:10:32.842
compared to hers, but I feel like
I'm already cold and the fan's going
00:10:33.712 --> 00:10:35.212
and I'm like a little old lady.
00:10:35.422 --> 00:10:36.682
I've got my two blankets.
00:10:36.907 --> 00:10:37.807
Dax: Well try going the other way.
00:10:37.867 --> 00:10:38.797
Just like jack it up.
00:10:38.802 --> 00:10:39.337
Make it hot
00:10:39.442 --> 00:10:40.732
Adam: I'll go really hot.
00:10:40.942 --> 00:10:41.212
Well,
00:10:41.287 --> 00:10:42.367
Dax: gotta try stuff at this
00:10:42.442 --> 00:10:43.882
Adam: try to just mix it up.
00:10:44.032 --> 00:10:46.762
I might just need to sleep like
on a couch and just see how I do.
00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:47.279
I might
00:10:47.354 --> 00:10:47.654
Dax: Oh, may.
00:10:48.014 --> 00:10:49.514
Oh, maybe your bed's too fancy.
00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:50.699
Adam: maybe.
00:10:51.029 --> 00:10:53.459
Yeah, we've done all
kinds of, oh man, our bed.
00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:55.889
You're gonna make fun of me so
much for so many of these things.
00:10:56.219 --> 00:11:01.799
So, the layers that our bed is, so we have
like a latex mattress, which is already
00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.309
like five layers because you buy the
individual layers and you build up like a
00:11:05.314 --> 00:11:07.139
firmness profile for your side of the bed.
00:11:07.719 --> 00:11:09.789
So there's like five layers
that make up the mattress.
00:11:10.029 --> 00:11:13.559
And then we have the uler, I
think directly on top of that.
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.419
And then we have a mattress pad.
00:11:16.064 --> 00:11:19.724
Then we have sheets that are like
conductive, grounding sheets.
00:11:20.114 --> 00:11:24.194
I dunno if they work, but I love the idea
that my sheets are plugged into the wall.
00:11:24.254 --> 00:11:25.334
Like it's just awesome.
00:11:26.024 --> 00:11:28.447
Dax: but like not, they're
plugged into the wall.
00:11:28.507 --> 00:11:30.277
Like, what do you mean to the ground?
00:11:30.282 --> 00:11:31.387
Like they're not like
plugged into a, like a
00:11:31.597 --> 00:11:33.997
Adam: Not, yeah, not the
whole socket, just the ground.
00:11:34.032 --> 00:11:34.322
Dax: Yeah.
00:11:34.327 --> 00:11:34.777
Yeah.
00:11:34.837 --> 00:11:35.227
Okay.
00:11:35.227 --> 00:11:35.677
Adam: what I'm talking about?
00:11:35.677 --> 00:11:35.887
Yeah.
00:11:37.387 --> 00:11:39.937
Wait, and Casey and I don't
sleep in the same sheets.
00:11:39.937 --> 00:11:42.507
Is that weird or not in
the same like blanket.
00:11:42.777 --> 00:11:44.697
She uses different blankets than me.
00:11:45.267 --> 00:11:45.567
Is that
00:11:45.627 --> 00:11:46.227
Dax: Wait, hang on.
00:11:46.317 --> 00:11:46.767
So
00:11:47.246 --> 00:11:48.356
Adam: It's like we're on the same bed.
00:11:48.566 --> 00:11:49.666
It's a king-sized bed.
00:11:49.666 --> 00:11:49.756
Dax: Okay?
00:11:50.426 --> 00:11:51.686
Adam: California king, actually.
00:11:51.776 --> 00:11:54.326
Dax: And you have separate blankets
so you can't physically touch.
00:11:55.136 --> 00:11:59.156
Adam: I mean, we, we could, but,
but it's work, you know, like
00:11:59.161 --> 00:12:01.016
there's, there's pillows in the way.
00:12:01.016 --> 00:12:01.766
There's blankets.
00:12:02.096 --> 00:12:05.096
We have like our own little
fort on each side of the bed.
00:12:05.846 --> 00:12:07.016
Yeah, we use different blankets.
00:12:07.176 --> 00:12:08.346
I don't know at what point I.
00:12:08.886 --> 00:12:11.766
At what point we started, but it almost
feels like we sleep in different rooms.
00:12:12.216 --> 00:12:14.466
'cause like different bedding entirely.
00:12:14.646 --> 00:12:16.746
It's very hard to make the bed also.
00:12:16.806 --> 00:12:17.946
Sorry, this is getting really weird.
00:12:18.036 --> 00:12:18.816
I should probably stop.
00:12:18.906 --> 00:12:19.236
I'm just gonna
00:12:19.281 --> 00:12:20.721
Dax: I don't want to
comment on your marriage.
00:12:20.726 --> 00:12:21.441
So like,
00:12:21.511 --> 00:12:22.351
Adam: Yeah, let's not go there.
00:12:22.351 --> 00:12:23.101
I don't know why.
00:12:23.101 --> 00:12:23.221
Yeah,
00:12:23.301 --> 00:12:23.746
Dax: not.
00:12:25.351 --> 00:12:26.221
Adam: I'm like asking for
00:12:26.416 --> 00:12:28.816
Dax: There's already been
rumors that Casey hates you, so
00:12:29.881 --> 00:12:30.781
Adam: That was a big rumor.
00:12:30.871 --> 00:12:32.191
I think you started that rumor though.
00:12:32.866 --> 00:12:33.916
Dax: No, I think you said it.
00:12:34.361 --> 00:12:35.021
Adam: What were we talking about?
00:12:35.021 --> 00:12:35.411
Sleep.
00:12:35.441 --> 00:12:37.091
Okay, so I'm gonna try
something different tonight.
00:12:37.091 --> 00:12:38.861
I'm gonna try something
00:12:38.996 --> 00:12:42.716
Dax: Maybe just, yeah, I think go on
the couch and like, just go primitive.
00:12:43.346 --> 00:12:44.666
Sleep on the, sleep on the floor.
00:12:44.666 --> 00:12:45.476
Sleep outside.
00:12:45.821 --> 00:12:47.111
Adam: Maybe I'll just stay up all night.
00:12:47.711 --> 00:12:50.621
Maybe I'll just like see if I can
get so tired that I sleep good the
00:12:50.621 --> 00:12:54.011
next night and then I'll start a
trend of sleeping good or something.
00:12:54.071 --> 00:12:55.421
My body will figure out how to do it.
00:12:55.768 --> 00:12:56.158
We'll see.
00:12:56.893 --> 00:12:59.533
Dax: Am I gonna get one of those videos
from you again where you like record
00:12:59.533 --> 00:13:02.413
yourself at 3:00 AM You just look insane.
00:13:03.583 --> 00:13:07.933
Adam: That video that you've only
seen no one will ever, ever see
00:13:08.143 --> 00:13:09.043
Dax: Man, one day.
00:13:09.283 --> 00:13:12.913
Adam: Unless I decide I'm leaving the
internet and then everyone will see it.
00:13:13.243 --> 00:13:15.163
Dax: Once you die from
prostate cancer, I'll,
00:13:15.313 --> 00:13:15.793
Adam: Oh my.
00:13:16.363 --> 00:13:19.123
Dax: I'll post that
video as a final tribute.
00:13:19.673 --> 00:13:20.153
Adam: It's funny.
00:13:21.773 --> 00:13:21.983
Dax: Okay.
00:13:21.983 --> 00:13:23.303
So your sleep is messed up,
00:13:23.543 --> 00:13:24.143
Adam: It's messed up.
00:13:24.143 --> 00:13:24.353
Yeah.
00:13:24.563 --> 00:13:27.113
Dax: which means nothing
in your life can go well.
00:13:27.743 --> 00:13:27.983
Adam: Yeah.
00:13:27.988 --> 00:13:31.133
And I'm trying to sleep more, but I'm
like training with a personal trainer now.
00:13:31.193 --> 00:13:34.553
I do two private lessons
with Jiujitsu every week.
00:13:34.763 --> 00:13:37.803
Like I'm doing so much physical
activity, I'm doing the knees
00:13:37.808 --> 00:13:39.123
over toes guys workouts.
00:13:39.303 --> 00:13:39.783
Dax: Oh yeah.
00:13:40.173 --> 00:13:41.943
Adam: 'cause my knees are both swollen.
00:13:42.813 --> 00:13:44.373
I'm doing like cardio stuff.
00:13:44.553 --> 00:13:47.043
Do you do four by fours
for vo two max training?
00:13:47.253 --> 00:13:50.193
Like I'm doing all this stuff and I'm 37.
00:13:50.553 --> 00:13:51.483
I'm not young anymore.
00:13:51.573 --> 00:13:52.893
Dax, I'm not 31.
00:13:55.645 --> 00:13:56.455
I need sleep.
00:13:56.515 --> 00:13:59.845
I think like sleep is a big part
of being active and recovering.
00:13:59.845 --> 00:14:00.145
Right.
00:14:00.445 --> 00:14:01.255
Dax: Yeah, yeah.
00:14:01.255 --> 00:14:03.715
I mean, do you have a whoop
or did you have, have you ever
00:14:03.745 --> 00:14:04.975
Adam: Have an or an aura
00:14:05.005 --> 00:14:05.815
Dax: Oh, yeah, similar.
00:14:05.815 --> 00:14:06.205
Yeah.
00:14:06.595 --> 00:14:06.775
Yeah.
00:14:06.775 --> 00:14:10.015
No, that, that recovery stuff
is like extremely accurate even
00:14:10.020 --> 00:14:11.275
if you're not a pro athlete.
00:14:11.275 --> 00:14:14.975
Like when I was working out more
there were days where I would just
00:14:14.975 --> 00:14:18.425
have terrible performance in the
gym and it always lined up with
00:14:18.545 --> 00:14:18.905
Adam: Yeah.
00:14:19.055 --> 00:14:20.735
The recovery score thing.
00:14:20.735 --> 00:14:21.095
Yeah.
00:14:21.185 --> 00:14:22.685
So the whoop does that too.
00:14:23.135 --> 00:14:23.825
I love that.
00:14:24.365 --> 00:14:26.585
I like, I wake up and it's like
when I feel like garbage, it's
00:14:26.585 --> 00:14:28.205
like, oh, 78 on the recovery.
00:14:28.235 --> 00:14:29.045
That makes sense.
00:14:29.195 --> 00:14:32.285
And when I feel really good, it's
like I'm ready to do a workout today.
00:14:32.825 --> 00:14:33.965
Something about that's motivating.
00:14:34.140 --> 00:14:36.810
Dax: I've just been doing the
sandbag workout that I mentioned.
00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:37.840
Adam: I got a sandbag.
00:14:38.193 --> 00:14:41.223
Dax: I actually got the idea from you,
'cause you mentioned that a while ago.
00:14:41.228 --> 00:14:44.163
And then I started looking into
it and I was like, all you need
00:14:44.163 --> 00:14:46.413
is a sandbag and you can do all
this stuff in your front yard.
00:14:46.443 --> 00:14:46.893
That's great.
00:14:46.983 --> 00:14:48.243
And I canceled my gym membership.
00:14:48.693 --> 00:14:50.163
Adam: Yeah, it's a totally
different kind of workout.
00:14:50.163 --> 00:14:52.503
Like if it's it's good.
00:14:53.043 --> 00:14:53.523
It's hard.
00:14:53.523 --> 00:14:54.753
It's hard to hold a sandbag.
00:14:55.083 --> 00:14:58.053
Dax: Yeah, I, I like that,
the lack of precision with it.
00:14:58.083 --> 00:15:00.153
'cause I feel like those types
of workouts are very good.
00:15:00.453 --> 00:15:01.353
Yeah, exactly.
00:15:01.443 --> 00:15:04.113
Where you're like lifting over your
head and like one sideways too much.
00:15:04.113 --> 00:15:06.273
And the other side it's
like not balanced perfectly.
00:15:06.383 --> 00:15:06.903
Adam: Yeah, yeah.
00:15:06.953 --> 00:15:08.153
Dax: And yeah, you can do so much with it.
00:15:08.153 --> 00:15:11.183
So I've just been doing these
like daily workouts with them.
00:15:11.370 --> 00:15:12.540
Adam: I got my sandbag.
00:15:12.690 --> 00:15:17.010
I did some workouts, and then I
joined this gym where I'm do like
00:15:17.010 --> 00:15:20.130
working with a personal trainer and
this entire gym, they've got like
00:15:20.160 --> 00:15:22.200
everything you can imagine, no sandbags.
00:15:22.770 --> 00:15:24.810
So I can't do any sandbags
with my personal trainer.
00:15:25.410 --> 00:15:27.570
He looked at me funny when I
asked him if they had sandbags,
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:29.070
like, wow, we have sandbags.
00:15:29.215 --> 00:15:29.845
Dax: I get that.
00:15:29.875 --> 00:15:34.825
'cause if you have all the like, like
the specific equipment that's the same.
00:15:34.825 --> 00:15:37.435
A sandbag that approximates all
that, it's like a versatile thing.
00:15:37.705 --> 00:15:38.335
Adam: Yeah, I guess so.
00:15:38.905 --> 00:15:39.715
Dax: Yeah, it's been great.
00:15:39.745 --> 00:15:43.465
'cause now I just walk out, like I just
wait till it's sunny and I just walk out
00:15:43.465 --> 00:15:46.345
and I do my workout and I can go back in.
00:15:46.345 --> 00:15:47.455
It's like super efficient.
00:15:47.455 --> 00:15:48.835
I can fit it in anywhere.
00:15:49.045 --> 00:15:51.355
I was already only walking like
three minutes to the gym anyway.
00:15:51.355 --> 00:15:53.995
But now it's, now it's
down to like 10 seconds.
00:15:54.325 --> 00:15:56.185
Adam: I'm just so jealous that
you can go outside right now.
00:15:56.275 --> 00:15:57.625
It's been so gross here.
00:15:58.045 --> 00:16:00.715
Like cold, sleet, snow.
00:16:01.705 --> 00:16:03.715
It's gonna be like minus 15, a
00:16:03.865 --> 00:16:04.890
Dax: Minus 15.
00:16:05.155 --> 00:16:05.875
Adam: Over the weekend.
00:16:05.875 --> 00:16:08.485
Yeah, there's gonna be a night
that the low is minus 15.
00:16:08.555 --> 00:16:08.715
That's
00:16:08.715 --> 00:16:10.045
Dax: What happens if you go outside?
00:16:10.045 --> 00:16:10.075
Oh
00:16:10.795 --> 00:16:11.395
Adam: I don't know.
00:16:11.395 --> 00:16:12.145
I'm not going to.
00:16:13.285 --> 00:16:14.065
Dax: My god.
00:16:14.275 --> 00:16:15.025
Adam: it's too cold.
00:16:15.625 --> 00:16:18.895
I'm going to Kansas City for a
tournament and it's even colder up there.
00:16:18.900 --> 00:16:20.335
Like it's three hours north.
00:16:21.115 --> 00:16:22.795
It's gonna be, it's gonna be brutal.
00:16:23.141 --> 00:16:25.571
Dax: It dropped at 60 degrees
for a week and I got sick.
00:16:26.716 --> 00:16:27.401
Adam: You suck.
00:16:27.521 --> 00:16:31.511
I hate you doing sandbag
workouts in your front lawn.
00:16:31.691 --> 00:16:33.581
We should talk about something
in, uh, there's some stuff
00:16:33.581 --> 00:16:35.301
going on in tech layoffs.
00:16:35.301 --> 00:16:36.591
How about the, there's been so
00:16:36.681 --> 00:16:37.191
Dax: oh, man.
00:16:37.191 --> 00:16:38.031
These layoffs again.
00:16:38.031 --> 00:16:38.301
I can't
00:16:38.451 --> 00:16:39.471
Adam: I thought the layoffs were done.
00:16:39.476 --> 00:16:42.951
I thought the rates were going
down and life was good again.
00:16:43.191 --> 00:16:46.791
We're gonna start seeing all the, like,
tiktoks from the project managers again.
00:16:47.361 --> 00:16:50.121
Like I thought all that was coming
back and then suddenly Google
00:16:50.121 --> 00:16:52.341
laid off like a ton of people.
00:16:52.551 --> 00:16:54.801
Dax: Wait, did they, okay, so
00:16:54.951 --> 00:16:55.281
Adam: Google?
00:16:55.281 --> 00:16:56.541
It was like 30,000 or
00:16:56.631 --> 00:16:57.081
Dax: no, no.
00:16:57.081 --> 00:16:58.341
That was fake news.
00:16:58.846 --> 00:17:02.566
It sounds like they are doing layoffs,
but that 30,000 number was like, was fake.
00:17:02.596 --> 00:17:02.986
Okay.
00:17:02.986 --> 00:17:07.396
Just to recap though, the Twitch
thing is crazy because I feel like
00:17:07.396 --> 00:17:12.406
they've had so many rounds of it and
it's like every X number of months,
00:17:12.406 --> 00:17:16.876
you just have like a day where you're
stressed out and then maybe you survive.
00:17:16.876 --> 00:17:20.086
But then like a bunch of people, you know,
it's just like, it's so brutal to have to
00:17:20.086 --> 00:17:21.976
go through that over and over and over.
00:17:22.336 --> 00:17:24.616
Adam: Could they not just tell
their employees about the layoffs
00:17:24.621 --> 00:17:26.416
before they read it on Twitter?
00:17:26.566 --> 00:17:27.886
Like, why can't they get this right?
00:17:27.886 --> 00:17:31.246
I feel like it's just like, I don't
really have big opinions about layoffs
00:17:31.246 --> 00:17:35.896
and about the, like, ethical, whatever,
implications, but just like sending
00:17:35.896 --> 00:17:40.156
an email and saying, Hey, we're gonna,
whatever the, the PR thing is gonna say
00:17:40.156 --> 00:17:44.056
whatever the thing that's gonna leak
and tell everybody there's layoffs.
00:17:44.056 --> 00:17:45.706
Just say that in an email first.
00:17:45.706 --> 00:17:48.346
So they don't learn about it
on Twitter because they just
00:17:48.346 --> 00:17:49.216
learn about it on Twitter.
00:17:49.216 --> 00:17:49.516
Right.
00:17:49.516 --> 00:17:49.846
Like
00:17:49.876 --> 00:17:50.266
Dax: Yeah.
00:17:50.266 --> 00:17:51.106
I mean, 'cause it leaked.
00:17:51.106 --> 00:17:51.586
Yeah.
00:17:51.586 --> 00:17:56.956
It's so crazy and everyone's just stressed
for a day and then, yeah, it just like, I.
00:17:57.586 --> 00:18:00.046
Man, that's like such a motivation killer.
00:18:00.226 --> 00:18:03.886
And I feel like even if you survive
all the rounds, you're like,
00:18:04.156 --> 00:18:05.416
probably want to quit anyway.
00:18:05.686 --> 00:18:05.956
Adam: Yeah.
00:18:06.046 --> 00:18:09.316
I think one of our friends on
Twitter, I think you, well, I,
00:18:09.316 --> 00:18:10.666
I would've met her at TwitchCon.
00:18:10.666 --> 00:18:12.466
I don't know if you know
her works at Twitch.
00:18:12.496 --> 00:18:13.816
Her entire team got let go.
00:18:14.026 --> 00:18:15.136
Dax: I saw, I saw that tweet.
00:18:15.196 --> 00:18:15.556
Yeah.
00:18:15.556 --> 00:18:17.266
It's just her, but her whole team is let
00:18:17.431 --> 00:18:18.391
Adam: Then what do you do?
00:18:18.481 --> 00:18:19.081
You don't know.
00:18:19.081 --> 00:18:21.841
Like, do I, like, where
am I going in the org?
00:18:21.871 --> 00:18:22.121
Yeah.
00:18:22.121 --> 00:18:23.011
That's a mess.
00:18:23.041 --> 00:18:23.611
Dax: It's tough.
00:18:23.641 --> 00:18:23.821
Yeah.
00:18:23.821 --> 00:18:27.421
And I did, and I did see something
about the other, like Google and
00:18:27.421 --> 00:18:29.251
a few other big companies today.
00:18:29.251 --> 00:18:33.481
I saw people talking about people are
getting notified, they're laid off.
00:18:33.661 --> 00:18:37.741
That 30,000 number was confusing
because they're restructuring an
00:18:37.741 --> 00:18:42.211
org that has 30,000 people in it,
because the last 10 years of them
00:18:42.211 --> 00:18:45.331
automating stuff with machine learning
and, uh, has, has made that like.
00:18:45.496 --> 00:18:45.676
Adam: Yeah.
00:18:45.676 --> 00:18:47.956
The headline made it like AI takes
00:18:48.331 --> 00:18:51.241
Dax: It's not any of like the new
AI stuff, it's just stuff that
00:18:51.241 --> 00:18:52.891
they've been doing for forever.
00:18:53.261 --> 00:18:56.771
I think it's like they're like
recommending tweaks to ads
00:18:56.771 --> 00:18:57.851
automatically or something.
00:18:57.851 --> 00:19:02.321
So the whole like service part of like
servicing someone that's running ads
00:19:02.321 --> 00:19:03.671
on Google, which is less important.
00:19:04.211 --> 00:19:06.281
So they're like restructuring it's,
and I'm sure like they're gonna
00:19:06.281 --> 00:19:09.281
let some people go as a result of
that, but it's not like they're
00:19:10.241 --> 00:19:11.621
letting go of 30,000 people.
00:19:11.891 --> 00:19:12.241
Adam: Right.
00:19:12.311 --> 00:19:12.601
Okay.
00:19:13.031 --> 00:19:13.211
Dax: Yeah.
00:19:13.211 --> 00:19:18.478
But I did see, like, I think I
saw today was there more Google
00:19:18.478 --> 00:19:21.088
Huts, hundreds of jobs, yeah.
00:19:21.088 --> 00:19:21.628
Today.
00:19:21.718 --> 00:19:22.558
So
00:19:22.753 --> 00:19:23.623
Adam: so what is your,
00:19:23.698 --> 00:19:24.328
Dax: still going down.
00:19:25.033 --> 00:19:30.883
Adam: like the current technology
landscape, like economy, all of it.
00:19:30.943 --> 00:19:32.503
Like, are we on the way down?
00:19:32.508 --> 00:19:33.343
Are we on the way up?
00:19:33.523 --> 00:19:34.328
Where, where are we headed?
00:19:35.218 --> 00:19:35.488
Dax: Yeah.
00:19:35.488 --> 00:19:39.168
I think the thing is like, with the,
this type of thing, like there's
00:19:39.168 --> 00:19:42.828
so many specifics that matter, like
one company doing layoffs versus
00:19:42.828 --> 00:19:44.178
another company doing layoffs.
00:19:44.628 --> 00:19:47.928
The fact that they're doing at the
same time is like a trend, but the
00:19:47.928 --> 00:19:50.118
reasons are, like the background
behind is completely different.
00:19:50.508 --> 00:19:56.628
With Google, I feel like their cuts are
like meaningful in that I think the CEO
00:19:56.628 --> 00:20:00.138
has been a bad CEO and I think they've
like missed out on a ton of opportunities
00:20:00.138 --> 00:20:03.888
and like they're like kind of having to
really like reckon with who they are and
00:20:03.888 --> 00:20:05.988
what their future is, but their cuts,
00:20:05.988 --> 00:20:08.328
I'm like, I don't know if
those jobs are coming back.
00:20:08.688 --> 00:20:12.288
There's other companies like, I dunno,
like Amazon that does cuts and I
00:20:12.288 --> 00:20:15.558
think that's just them like taking the
opportunity to like reset and I'm sure
00:20:15.558 --> 00:20:18.948
they're gonna grow back up to that
size, you know, at, at some point.
00:20:19.458 --> 00:20:22.938
I can't imagine that there's still like
a lot of layoffs that are incoming.
00:20:23.528 --> 00:20:28.838
Adam: There's also not layoffs, but
all the exodus from AWS have you
00:20:28.993 --> 00:20:29.693
Dax: The people leaving.
00:20:29.698 --> 00:20:30.173
Yeah, I did.
00:20:30.173 --> 00:20:30.383
Yeah.
00:20:30.383 --> 00:20:31.823
Like it's another one today.
00:20:32.018 --> 00:20:35.888
Adam: That's been framed that like
really the back to office thing was
00:20:35.888 --> 00:20:40.058
to just, it was like a way of doing
layoffs without the negative publicity.
00:20:40.088 --> 00:20:41.498
Like they knew people would leave.
00:20:42.413 --> 00:20:45.263
Nobody wanted to come back
to the office and it worked.
00:20:45.383 --> 00:20:50.223
And like very high profile people with
large social media followings have been
00:20:50.223 --> 00:20:52.533
leaving and announcing that they left.
00:20:53.463 --> 00:20:54.363
That's a whole nother thing.
00:20:54.858 --> 00:20:55.148
Dax: Yeah.
00:20:55.323 --> 00:20:58.863
Adam: There's some really great people
at AWS like people I've loved interacting
00:20:58.863 --> 00:21:01.113
with that are seem like great people.
00:21:01.233 --> 00:21:02.733
And then there's some weird stuff.
00:21:02.763 --> 00:21:03.543
There's some weird stuff.
00:21:03.543 --> 00:21:08.193
I've heard stories I've heard about
just like weird power dynamics within
00:21:08.193 --> 00:21:13.383
AWS, and then this has kind of been
more of those cracks showing publicly.
00:21:13.383 --> 00:21:17.073
Like it used to be that it felt
like there's this impenetrable wall.
00:21:17.103 --> 00:21:21.393
They were all on the same page
and I don't know, morale was very
00:21:21.393 --> 00:21:25.053
high at AWS and that's changed a
lot I feel like in the last year.
00:21:25.878 --> 00:21:26.988
Dax: Yeah, I can see that.
00:21:27.018 --> 00:21:32.268
Like I, even just in my time interacting
and using AWS I feel like it's just
00:21:32.268 --> 00:21:37.278
gotten more and more, it's like just
become a much more political organization.
00:21:37.278 --> 00:21:39.708
It feels like, it feels like there's
like a lot of complexity behind the
00:21:39.708 --> 00:21:43.578
scenes, that are like not related
to the technology or the product.
00:21:43.578 --> 00:21:45.018
Just like corporate complexity.
00:21:46.008 --> 00:21:49.748
I can see that the return to
office thing is interesting.
00:21:49.778 --> 00:21:52.448
I don't know, like, I don't fully
understand the strategy there.
00:21:52.448 --> 00:21:54.468
Like, you wanna do layoffs?
00:21:54.948 --> 00:21:56.988
Staying return to office is a good way.
00:21:56.993 --> 00:21:59.718
Like it is like a
convenient way to like cut.
00:21:59.748 --> 00:22:04.008
'cause people will self-select out, but
you have no control over who self-selects
00:22:04.203 --> 00:22:04.773
Adam: Right.
00:22:05.508 --> 00:22:08.718
Dax: Uh, and they're not stupid
enough to like not understand that.
00:22:08.718 --> 00:22:10.218
I'm sure they understand that.
00:22:10.968 --> 00:22:17.438
So to me that means like, it, they don't
care who leaves and maybe they really
00:22:17.438 --> 00:22:20.348
feel like they just need like a full
reset and like, you know, new people
00:22:20.348 --> 00:22:22.658
will come in that are great probably.
00:22:23.318 --> 00:22:24.218
Yeah, I don't fully get it.
00:22:24.218 --> 00:22:26.258
Like everyone tries to explain
the return to office thing in
00:22:26.263 --> 00:22:27.878
such like, simplistic ways.
00:22:27.878 --> 00:22:31.268
Like, oh, managers want to like,
feel powerful so they can like, see
00:22:31.268 --> 00:22:32.408
people in the office or something.
00:22:33.068 --> 00:22:36.308
I don't know if it's that simple
like I, I, but I just don't get it.
00:22:36.578 --> 00:22:38.018
I haven't seen an adequate explanation.
00:22:38.351 --> 00:22:41.441
Adam: Yeah, the article I saw, 'cause
I just, I read something yesterday
00:22:41.446 --> 00:22:44.441
after I saw a couple of people
that left that I've surprised left.
00:22:44.861 --> 00:22:50.741
That like they were trying to specifically
cut a lot of the like high earners and
00:22:50.741 --> 00:22:55.601
that they thought those high earners would
be the most put off by like coming into
00:22:55.601 --> 00:22:57.761
the office, which is interesting like
00:22:57.866 --> 00:23:02.416
Dax: That kind of makes sense though
because the salaries you pay, like
00:23:02.416 --> 00:23:06.036
having been at a company that did a
lot of hiring the salaries you end
00:23:06.036 --> 00:23:07.626
up paying people are like so random.
00:23:07.776 --> 00:23:12.876
Like it's completely based off of
like they got into the right time and
00:23:12.876 --> 00:23:15.876
people at the company were stressed
in a certain way at the right time.
00:23:16.146 --> 00:23:17.676
And like the market looked a certain way.
00:23:17.886 --> 00:23:21.246
And then like if you like play, if you
like, do hiring for two years and look
00:23:21.251 --> 00:23:24.006
back, like the pay scales are so random.
00:23:24.006 --> 00:23:26.196
Like you'll have people that suck,
that are making a lot people that
00:23:26.196 --> 00:23:27.606
are good, that aren't making as much.
00:23:28.066 --> 00:23:31.066
And I can see how like at a company that's
been around for that long that, you know,
00:23:31.066 --> 00:23:33.286
pays high salaries, it probably was like.
00:23:33.676 --> 00:23:37.696
A complete mess in terms of,
and yeah, in terms of that, so
00:23:37.801 --> 00:23:41.821
Adam: but Amazon specifically for a
long time was kind of like a low salary,
00:23:41.896 --> 00:23:42.136
Dax: yeah.
00:23:42.166 --> 00:23:43.936
But it was like high stock compensation.
00:23:43.996 --> 00:23:45.317
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:45.776 --> 00:23:49.406
But they did, I mean, even then
they upped their salary floor
00:23:49.466 --> 00:23:51.446
during like the crazy covid times.
00:23:51.896 --> 00:23:56.396
So I'm sure a lot of people got in during
then that they're like, eh, this isn't
00:23:56.396 --> 00:23:57.536
really worth paying them that much.
00:23:57.536 --> 00:23:57.896
So,
00:23:58.041 --> 00:24:01.971
Adam: I saw you, you tweeted something
the other day about about salaries.
00:24:02.051 --> 00:24:06.041
It was on the other side of it, like
from an individual perspective, like
00:24:06.551 --> 00:24:10.931
there's such a ceiling on what you
can make from a company on a salary
00:24:10.931 --> 00:24:12.581
versus like consulting or whatever.
00:24:13.346 --> 00:24:13.646
Dax: Yeah.
00:24:13.646 --> 00:24:17.066
It's just like, it's just so inappropriate
for a company to have two people
00:24:17.066 --> 00:24:21.356
on the same team and like pay one
person like double that's like, so
00:24:21.361 --> 00:24:24.836
like outside the realm of anything
that anyone would ever consider.
00:24:25.841 --> 00:24:29.021
But it's not unreasonable to say
that a person is like, twice as,
00:24:29.741 --> 00:24:31.541
like, if you actually analyze
it, other twice is more valid.
00:24:31.541 --> 00:24:34.481
Even more like sometimes they're
like doing 90% of the work.
00:24:35.361 --> 00:24:37.731
So the asymmetry is always there,
and if you're capable of being an
00:24:37.731 --> 00:24:38.931
independent, you can just capture them.
00:24:38.936 --> 00:24:41.601
I mean, you, you, you know,
there's like, you did that as well.
00:24:41.601 --> 00:24:45.476
So it's just like, yeah, it's
just like the salary thing
00:24:45.476 --> 00:24:47.306
is, it's all again, so random.
00:24:47.306 --> 00:24:48.926
Like it's, it's timing.
00:24:48.926 --> 00:24:52.316
It's all these weird things that
are just lucky in a lot of ways.
00:24:53.201 --> 00:24:53.411
Adam: yeah.
00:24:53.411 --> 00:24:56.561
I have a totally unrelated question,
but just bringing up your Twitter, when
00:24:56.561 --> 00:24:59.741
are you gonna run out of things to say,
when are you gonna like not have this
00:24:59.746 --> 00:25:05.261
like just steady stream of, you have
like four th, I don't know, four or
00:25:05.261 --> 00:25:08.801
five tweets a day that are like, where
does this come from in your brain?
00:25:08.951 --> 00:25:10.511
Like, how do you have
this much in your brain?
00:25:11.156 --> 00:25:12.026
Dax: You know what's funny?
00:25:12.076 --> 00:25:17.386
It's funny you bring that up because
almost every day I'm like, oh, that's it.
00:25:17.386 --> 00:25:20.806
I'm run, I'm outta stuff like every day.
00:25:20.806 --> 00:25:21.616
I'm just like.
00:25:22.111 --> 00:25:24.481
I don't like, I think I, this is
all the stuff that I know about.
00:25:24.481 --> 00:25:28.291
These are like all the good thoughts I
have and I, I really can't see myself
00:25:28.291 --> 00:25:29.491
coming up with like anything else.
00:25:29.491 --> 00:25:32.521
And sometimes it lasts like a couple
days where I'm just like, yeah,
00:25:32.581 --> 00:25:33.931
no good thoughts about anything.
00:25:34.501 --> 00:25:38.281
But eventually, like there's just more
stimulus that like triggers something.
00:25:38.821 --> 00:25:40.501
But yeah, I, I feel that same way too.
00:25:40.501 --> 00:25:41.941
Like I'm just like, I'm out.
00:25:42.001 --> 00:25:42.481
I'm done.
00:25:42.481 --> 00:25:43.921
I don't have anything
smart to say anymore.
00:25:44.446 --> 00:25:47.776
Adam: I think I actually did run
out like two years ago, and that's
00:25:47.776 --> 00:25:48.736
why I just don't tweet anymore.
00:25:50.416 --> 00:25:51.976
I just had a lot less to work with.
00:25:52.318 --> 00:25:52.588
Dax: Yeah.
00:25:52.588 --> 00:25:54.358
I think I just have a lot of stimulus.
00:25:54.418 --> 00:25:56.398
Like I just have like a
crazy amount of stimulus,
00:25:56.953 --> 00:25:57.193
Adam: yeah.
00:25:57.298 --> 00:25:57.898
Dax: of my work.
00:25:58.363 --> 00:25:59.893
Adam: You get on Hacker
News and stuff, don't you?
00:26:00.658 --> 00:26:03.598
Dax: no, it's like I'm talking with
Jay and Frank all the time and they're
00:26:03.598 --> 00:26:06.748
both like really smart and they have
like a lot of thoughts a lot of times.
00:26:06.748 --> 00:26:10.468
Like the stuff that I'm posting about
is really just stuff that they've said
00:26:10.468 --> 00:26:11.728
and we've like discussed together.
00:26:11.938 --> 00:26:13.318
Adam: You talk with me a lot.
00:26:13.378 --> 00:26:14.248
I'm really smart.
00:26:14.278 --> 00:26:14.698
Yeah.
00:26:14.823 --> 00:26:14.943
I,
00:26:14.968 --> 00:26:15.448
Dax: Talk with you.
00:26:15.448 --> 00:26:15.508
Yeah.
00:26:17.593 --> 00:26:17.833
And
00:26:17.833 --> 00:26:19.303
that does something for
00:26:19.303 --> 00:26:19.783
sure.
00:26:19.785 --> 00:26:19.948
Adam: lot.
00:26:19.953 --> 00:26:20.878
It does something,
00:26:22.063 --> 00:26:23.083
Dax: there's that.
00:26:23.083 --> 00:26:25.873
Then I get like all the inbound
from like a community saying
00:26:25.873 --> 00:26:27.283
stuff, talking about stuff.
00:26:27.313 --> 00:26:29.173
Um, I'm always talking
with other founders.
00:26:29.293 --> 00:26:30.973
Like I had a meeting with
another founder yesterday.
00:26:30.973 --> 00:26:31.723
We had coffee.
00:26:32.263 --> 00:26:32.623
Ton of,
00:26:32.668 --> 00:26:33.838
Adam: Like a YC thing.
00:26:33.898 --> 00:26:36.118
You just like get together with YC people?
00:26:36.828 --> 00:26:37.048
Dax: no,
00:26:37.648 --> 00:26:37.948
Adam: No.
00:26:37.978 --> 00:26:38.368
Okay.
00:26:38.368 --> 00:26:39.208
Just founders got
00:26:39.253 --> 00:26:40.033
Dax: Just, yeah, I don't know.
00:26:40.063 --> 00:26:41.053
Just like, yeah.
00:26:41.053 --> 00:26:43.723
So I feel like I just come across a lot
of people talking about different things.
00:26:43.723 --> 00:26:47.893
Like the guy I talked to yesterday
was, is, uh, a really smart guy.
00:26:47.893 --> 00:26:52.513
Like, you know, several exits already
starting a new company, uh, in ai, but
00:26:52.513 --> 00:26:54.763
like, not like a stupid AI company.
00:26:54.763 --> 00:26:57.343
Like he's really like putting in a lot of
work to think about what he wants to do.
00:26:57.643 --> 00:27:00.643
So I talked to him for like two, like
almost two hours about, I asked like
00:27:00.703 --> 00:27:06.013
every possible question that I had about
the space and he's, he's, he spent like
00:27:06.013 --> 00:27:07.243
so much time just thinking about it.
00:27:07.713 --> 00:27:08.433
Oh, you know who it is.
00:27:08.438 --> 00:27:11.193
It's actually a, a Raffa Raffa's boss.
00:27:11.793 --> 00:27:14.463
He just left his job and,
uh, he lives in Miami.
00:27:15.378 --> 00:27:15.618
Adam: Huh.
00:27:15.633 --> 00:27:20.313
Dax: uh, yeah, so like that was like two
hours of like such interesting stuff.
00:27:21.168 --> 00:27:23.808
Adam: Why did I think he was
independent or something?
00:27:23.853 --> 00:27:26.223
Dax: He was for a while, like
he was at Steady for a while.
00:27:26.223 --> 00:27:29.553
Then he, then he left and was kind
of independent and he joined, uh,
00:27:29.553 --> 00:27:31.953
this company called Vendor, uh,
00:27:32.613 --> 00:27:35.193
which this guy Aaron's, a CTO of.
00:27:35.463 --> 00:27:36.363
And, uh, yeah.
00:27:36.363 --> 00:27:39.063
So, you know, it's just like,
it just comes down to stimulus.
00:27:39.063 --> 00:27:39.603
Like if you're
00:27:41.148 --> 00:27:41.568
Adam: Yeah.
00:27:41.643 --> 00:27:43.893
Dax: that stuff, eventually you'll
have something interesting to say.
00:27:43.968 --> 00:27:47.208
Adam: I do have more interesting
thoughts when I'm like listening
00:27:47.208 --> 00:27:48.318
to a good book or something.
00:27:48.728 --> 00:27:49.018
Dax: Yeah,
00:27:49.908 --> 00:27:51.108
Adam: I mean, I guess
I don't have thoughts.
00:27:51.108 --> 00:27:55.698
I just, I'm regurgitating things I read
in the book, but my, my brain is like more
00:27:55.863 --> 00:27:56.583
Dax: stimulus.
00:27:56.583 --> 00:27:57.483
That's stimulus.
00:27:57.573 --> 00:27:58.263
Don't, don't cut.
00:27:58.293 --> 00:27:58.953
Don't sell yourself
00:27:59.178 --> 00:27:59.658
Adam: Oh wow.
00:27:59.658 --> 00:28:02.868
I do, I go, I can go weeks at a
time without any stimulus, can't I?
00:28:03.548 --> 00:28:07.478
I have stimulus from like the
team I work with, like the people.
00:28:07.838 --> 00:28:09.158
You do have a lot of stimulus.
00:28:09.158 --> 00:28:10.088
I need more stimulus
00:28:10.193 --> 00:28:12.083
Dax: I think I have
above average stimulus.
00:28:12.113 --> 00:28:14.723
You might have like an average
amount, like people from like work and
00:28:14.798 --> 00:28:16.688
Adam: I think I have
below average stimulus.
00:28:16.868 --> 00:28:20.378
I think, uh, I have above
average CO2 in my office.
00:28:20.408 --> 00:28:21.518
Do you have one of these things now?
00:28:21.523 --> 00:28:23.018
Because it's like flashing at me.
00:28:23.528 --> 00:28:24.818
I'm, I'm getting into the red.
00:28:25.448 --> 00:28:25.688
It's all
00:28:25.793 --> 00:28:26.723
Dax: it's cause you're talking.
00:28:27.293 --> 00:28:27.983
That's funny.
00:28:28.583 --> 00:28:30.743
Uh, Liz made a joke today 'cause
she was talking about how she
00:28:30.748 --> 00:28:33.143
couldn't sleep well and she was
like, should we open the window?
00:28:33.143 --> 00:28:34.043
Is it the CO2?
00:28:34.343 --> 00:28:36.413
But I was like, didn't
CO2 make you sleepy?
00:28:36.653 --> 00:28:37.073
Uh,
00:28:38.078 --> 00:28:38.588
Adam: It should help.
00:28:40.268 --> 00:28:42.938
Um, man, it, it does though.
00:28:43.058 --> 00:28:44.018
The window helps.
00:28:44.858 --> 00:28:45.068
Like
00:28:45.083 --> 00:28:45.383
Dax: okay.
00:28:45.383 --> 00:28:50.663
My question is, I am, I am like
in the worst room possible for
00:28:50.668 --> 00:28:53.483
this and I, I refuse to get one.
00:28:53.543 --> 00:28:54.893
I refuse to get a CO2 monitor.
00:28:54.893 --> 00:28:57.113
Like I can't, I just refuse to get one.
00:28:57.483 --> 00:28:58.323
I just think it's dumb.
00:28:58.353 --> 00:28:59.223
I think it's dumb.
00:29:00.648 --> 00:29:04.758
Adam: I mean, to be fair, like whatever
the number, I've never felt effects
00:29:04.758 --> 00:29:06.828
where I'm like, oh, my brain is foggy.
00:29:06.833 --> 00:29:07.788
It must be CO2,
00:29:08.268 --> 00:29:11.388
Dax: Well the other thing is I have air
conditioning running all year round.
00:29:11.418 --> 00:29:12.648
Does that make a difference?
00:29:12.948 --> 00:29:13.398
Adam: Maybe
00:29:13.758 --> 00:29:15.738
Dax: Because my air, the air
is circulating technically.
00:29:15.768 --> 00:29:20.838
So I'm wondering if it's like
a AC in a room situation.
00:29:21.468 --> 00:29:25.008
Adam: I'll tell you one thing I did
learn yesterday, uh, that it was
00:29:25.008 --> 00:29:28.608
very helpful to know, uh, because
we have one of these monitors.
00:29:29.058 --> 00:29:33.108
If you put dry ice in the bathtub
for your kids to just poke at and see
00:29:33.108 --> 00:29:38.508
the fog and stuff, critical levels of
CO2 in the room, like it hit numbers.
00:29:38.538 --> 00:29:40.158
It was like 2,500 or something.
00:29:40.488 --> 00:29:41.628
Dax: Were you carrying around with you?
00:29:41.688 --> 00:29:41.988
Like what?
00:29:42.288 --> 00:29:42.528
Why
00:29:42.708 --> 00:29:42.858
Adam: No.
00:29:42.858 --> 00:29:44.118
We set it in the bathroom while,
00:29:44.148 --> 00:29:47.058
'cause they just, whenever we
get like, uh, we get like food
00:29:47.058 --> 00:29:49.368
delivery and it'll be like dry ice
00:29:49.758 --> 00:29:49.998
Dax: Yeah.
00:29:49.998 --> 00:29:51.048
No, it's so fun to play with.
00:29:51.258 --> 00:29:52.188
Adam: Yeah, they love it.
00:29:52.248 --> 00:29:54.618
It's like steaming over the
bathtub walls, you know?
00:29:55.068 --> 00:29:58.218
Uh, so we did that, but we put the
thing in there just to see, 'cause
00:29:58.218 --> 00:30:00.048
it's like basically CO2, right?
00:30:00.078 --> 00:30:02.718
Like it's what dry ice is, I guess.
00:30:02.974 --> 00:30:03.424
Dax: Yeah.
00:30:04.024 --> 00:30:04.444
Yeah.
00:30:04.834 --> 00:30:05.494
Adam: It's like hardened.
00:30:05.524 --> 00:30:05.974
I don't know.
00:30:06.454 --> 00:30:09.874
Dax: There's a place by me that we get
ice cream from sometimes it's like a
00:30:09.904 --> 00:30:11.584
liquid nitrogen ice ice cream place.
00:30:11.764 --> 00:30:12.754
I dunno if you've ever had this.
00:30:13.324 --> 00:30:15.604
It's ice cream that's
made with liquid nitrogen.
00:30:15.909 --> 00:30:18.754
Adam: It's made with it or like made cold
00:30:19.124 --> 00:30:21.164
Dax: The process involves liquid nitrogen.
00:30:21.794 --> 00:30:22.484
But like, I don't know.
00:30:22.724 --> 00:30:24.074
I remember how exactly it works.
00:30:24.134 --> 00:30:27.554
I, I've done this as like, when I was
a kid, I was like a science experiment
00:30:27.554 --> 00:30:28.904
before, but I don't remember how it works.
00:30:29.504 --> 00:30:33.644
But the result is like the
smoothest creamiest ice cream.
00:30:33.644 --> 00:30:35.474
It, like, it's, it's so good.
00:30:35.474 --> 00:30:38.564
And we get this like like, like
Nutella mixed in there too.
00:30:38.714 --> 00:30:39.254
Adam: Yeah.
00:30:39.794 --> 00:30:41.054
Dax: It is, uh, it is insane.
00:30:41.114 --> 00:30:43.364
I haven't had it in a while
'cause I'm on keto, but.
00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:44.999
It's very good.
00:30:45.344 --> 00:30:50.084
Adam: So one of, uh, our dreams, Casey
and I, is to like retire and have a little
00:30:50.084 --> 00:30:52.184
food truck and sell banana ice cream.
00:30:52.334 --> 00:30:53.624
We make banana ice cream.
00:30:53.684 --> 00:30:54.494
Have you ever had banana ice
00:30:54.809 --> 00:30:57.479
Dax: No, you've told me about it and
it's how simple it is and how good it is.
00:30:57.479 --> 00:30:57.719
I haven't
00:30:57.824 --> 00:30:57.914
Adam: Yeah.
00:30:57.914 --> 00:30:59.444
We make it almost like every day.
00:30:59.774 --> 00:31:03.854
Uh, we just have a constant
supply of bananas ripening
00:31:03.854 --> 00:31:04.964
and going into the freezer.
00:31:05.121 --> 00:31:07.431
and we've gotten it
down and it's delicious.
00:31:07.701 --> 00:31:10.311
I mean, it really, it like, I don't
know if it tastes just like ice cream.
00:31:10.551 --> 00:31:12.771
I haven't had dairy ice
cream in a long time.
00:31:13.111 --> 00:31:15.631
But it's just like this smooth,
it's like vanilla ice cream.
00:31:15.691 --> 00:31:17.821
I mean it really, you take frozen
bananas, you blend them up.
00:31:18.121 --> 00:31:20.581
It's amazing how the texture
and everything else, it's
00:31:20.581 --> 00:31:21.571
like soft serve ice cream.
00:31:21.721 --> 00:31:21.871
It's
00:31:21.946 --> 00:31:22.456
Dax: Yeah.
00:31:22.666 --> 00:31:23.116
I have to try.
00:31:23.116 --> 00:31:23.236
It.
00:31:23.251 --> 00:31:27.151
Adam: love to like sell it out of a stand
or something and like expose people.
00:31:27.181 --> 00:31:31.051
'cause there's so many people
that can't do dairy now or ever,
00:31:31.561 --> 00:31:33.916
and that's a lot more common.
00:31:33.916 --> 00:31:37.066
Like people are realizing they
shouldn't consume dairy, they
00:31:37.066 --> 00:31:38.266
don't do well with it or whatever.
00:31:38.746 --> 00:31:40.306
Uh, you have all these alt melts.
00:31:40.593 --> 00:31:42.213
Dax: What about, all the
people that can't eat bananas?
00:31:42.903 --> 00:31:43.503
What about them?
00:31:44.238 --> 00:31:45.768
Adam: Are there people
that can't eat bananas?
00:31:45.933 --> 00:31:46.923
Dax: Yeah, it drives them bananas.
00:31:47.863 --> 00:31:49.098
Adam: Oh wow.
00:31:50.538 --> 00:31:51.443
I didn't see that one coming.
00:31:53.178 --> 00:31:55.098
Just doesn't seem on brand for Dex
00:31:55.628 --> 00:31:55.988
Dax: it is not.
00:31:56.088 --> 00:31:59.853
But I saw the opportunity, uh,
you know what I want, you know, I
00:31:59.853 --> 00:32:04.563
actually really want to get, uh,
banana trees because you know, those
00:32:04.563 --> 00:32:07.773
like smaller bananas that are like
freaking delicious, but like you never
00:32:07.773 --> 00:32:08.283
get those.
00:32:09.093 --> 00:32:09.333
Yeah.
00:32:09.333 --> 00:32:10.683
Yeah, My, so that's, yeah.
00:32:10.848 --> 00:32:11.778
Adam: We order 'em from your
00:32:12.063 --> 00:32:12.453
Dax: Right.
00:32:12.513 --> 00:32:13.173
Exactly.
00:32:13.713 --> 00:32:16.113
So we want to, I want to get those,
because those are so, they're so
00:32:16.118 --> 00:32:17.463
much better than normal bananas.
00:32:17.553 --> 00:32:19.233
Do you make ice cream out of
those or do you just use a
00:32:19.578 --> 00:32:23.358
Adam: No, we just use Cavendish, just the
normal 'cause we can get 'em at the store.
00:32:23.418 --> 00:32:26.868
We used to buy literal boxes of
bananas even before we had kids.
00:32:26.868 --> 00:32:28.488
We ate so many bananas.
00:32:29.088 --> 00:32:31.518
Now, I guess we, we eat
less, which is weird.
00:32:31.878 --> 00:32:34.788
Uh, but we would buy, like, we'd go
to the grocery store and walk out
00:32:34.788 --> 00:32:39.798
with an entire box, which is like,
I don't know, 20 bunches of bananas.
00:32:39.798 --> 00:32:40.368
It's a lot.
00:32:40.908 --> 00:32:43.488
And people would always be like, what
are you doing with those bananas?
00:32:44.028 --> 00:32:45.888
We're freezing 'em or making ice cream.
00:32:48.328 --> 00:32:52.828
But yeah, the, the small ones, we just
get those to eat, like the miso and
00:32:52.828 --> 00:32:54.388
there's like the praying hands, bananas.
00:32:54.568 --> 00:32:56.188
There's a lot of good banana varieties.
00:32:56.338 --> 00:32:56.578
Wow.
00:32:56.578 --> 00:32:59.878
This episode, I mean, we never
really have a train of thought, but
00:32:59.883 --> 00:33:01.498
this is, we're all over the place.
00:33:01.903 --> 00:33:03.433
Dax: well, I'm about to pivot hard.
00:33:03.718 --> 00:33:04.138
Adam: Oh, good.
00:33:04.138 --> 00:33:07.768
Let's pivot, but don't
just pivot Dax, pivot hard.
00:33:07.873 --> 00:33:08.563
Dax: Pivot hard.
00:33:08.623 --> 00:33:10.303
It's only, only kind of
pivot that's worth it
00:33:10.588 --> 00:33:11.308
Adam: Plant that foot.
00:33:11.368 --> 00:33:11.728
Yeah.
00:33:11.758 --> 00:33:12.658
Let's really pivot.
00:33:13.183 --> 00:33:16.153
Dax: Rotates 90, maybe 180 degrees.
00:33:16.306 --> 00:33:19.396
So, I've been doing a bunch of
CloudFlare work for the past week
00:33:19.771 --> 00:33:20.641
Adam: this is good.
00:33:20.866 --> 00:33:23.716
Dax: and I've been having
a really good time with it.
00:33:24.046 --> 00:33:24.556
It is a.
00:33:25.321 --> 00:33:26.101
It's a fun platform.
00:33:26.221 --> 00:33:27.751
Adam: SST ion, right?
00:33:27.751 --> 00:33:30.871
You like it's gonna be deployed
from SST, so now we can have
00:33:30.871 --> 00:33:32.851
like the mix of cloud providers.
00:33:33.271 --> 00:33:33.571
Dax: Yeah.
00:33:33.571 --> 00:33:37.668
So one of the reasons we started
doing it is because, uh, we're like
00:33:37.668 --> 00:33:40.608
doing all the binding stuff and we
wanna make sure, like this version of,
00:33:41.028 --> 00:33:42.228
we're actually renaming to linking.
00:33:42.228 --> 00:33:46.038
So you can link, uh, when you link
resources together, uh, we want
00:33:46.038 --> 00:33:48.798
to, we want to make sure that our
implementation isn't too coupled to
00:33:48.798 --> 00:33:52.668
AWS so if having CloudFlare worker
support means like, we're kind of
00:33:52.668 --> 00:33:56.538
forced to support it in a better way,
but we're gonna have, we're gonna be
00:33:56.538 --> 00:33:58.398
able to do, do like, like our demo,
00:33:58.398 --> 00:34:01.878
we'll be able to do something like
create an S3 bucket and then link it to a
00:34:01.878 --> 00:34:03.408
CloudFlare worker and then upload a file.
00:34:03.468 --> 00:34:06.018
Like you can go across
stuff easily that way.
00:34:06.558 --> 00:34:09.468
Uh, and 'cause I really wanna
get to a place where people can
00:34:09.468 --> 00:34:11.658
incrementally try workers for stuff.
00:34:12.318 --> 00:34:16.818
So if you look at like our bills, uh,
Lambda is the highest part of our bill.
00:34:16.818 --> 00:34:16.878
I.
00:34:17.388 --> 00:34:20.718
And there's one function that is
probably like 80% of that bill,
00:34:21.438 --> 00:34:25.068
and it's just something that's like
reacting to an event, bridge event.
00:34:25.908 --> 00:34:29.178
So we want to have a way to just
swap that out with the CloudFlare
00:34:29.183 --> 00:34:30.618
worker 'cause it's way cheaper.
00:34:31.008 --> 00:34:31.908
And just experiment with that.
00:34:31.908 --> 00:34:33.558
Having to like move everything over.
00:34:33.993 --> 00:34:35.463
Adam: It's got that different
billing model, right?
00:34:35.463 --> 00:34:39.513
Like you only are billed for
active compute, not like idle.
00:34:39.948 --> 00:34:40.188
Dax: Yeah.
00:34:40.188 --> 00:34:41.868
It, it's cheaper to begin with.
00:34:41.988 --> 00:34:45.648
And then you, you're not billed
for IO waiting and this function
00:34:45.653 --> 00:34:46.578
does a lot of IO waiting.
00:34:47.043 --> 00:34:48.303
Adam: So that was one of my questions.
00:34:48.303 --> 00:34:51.663
Like for traditional web app, like
let's say you're building a next JS
00:34:51.663 --> 00:34:56.763
app and you're using Open Next and s
SST to deploy it, it would a future
00:34:56.763 --> 00:35:02.133
ideal infrastructure look like you're
using CloudFlare to replace CloudFront?
00:35:02.163 --> 00:35:04.923
I assume you're not also setting up
a CloudFront distribution, right?
00:35:05.733 --> 00:35:07.233
Just CloudFlare is your CDN.
00:35:07.968 --> 00:35:10.758
Dax: So there's like, the reality is
when you start to say, okay, I'm gonna
00:35:10.758 --> 00:35:14.658
use two different cloud providers,
even within AWS there's kind of
00:35:14.658 --> 00:35:18.138
an infinite number of ways you can
configure a NextJS site or Astro site.
00:35:18.378 --> 00:35:21.498
You add in another cloud provider,
now there's like, you know, infinite
00:35:21.498 --> 00:35:24.198
times, infinite number of ways that
you can configure the combination.
00:35:24.963 --> 00:35:27.243
Adam: And that's why I, I'm
asking sort of from like the
00:35:27.243 --> 00:35:30.543
perspective of next JS specifically,
00:35:31.323 --> 00:35:34.503
like is there an ideal infrastructure
when you blend these different, if
00:35:34.508 --> 00:35:37.263
you have all the providers at your
disposal, what does it look like?
00:35:37.293 --> 00:35:39.423
I assume it's something
similar to what Vercel does.
00:35:40.068 --> 00:35:41.808
Dax: It's actually not weirdly enough
00:35:42.273 --> 00:35:42.573
Adam: oh yeah.
00:35:42.573 --> 00:35:43.563
'cause they're slow
00:35:43.908 --> 00:35:44.208
Dax: yeah.
00:35:44.238 --> 00:35:45.948
'cause they have the extra hop in between.
00:35:46.008 --> 00:35:46.788
Um,
00:35:47.133 --> 00:35:49.923
Adam: And that was my next question
too, follow up if you wanna just go and
00:35:49.923 --> 00:35:54.423
get into this, is like, when you start
blending different providers, what kind of
00:35:54.428 --> 00:35:56.073
latency issues do you have to think about?
00:35:56.073 --> 00:35:58.533
Like when it's database
connections and stuff?
00:35:58.593 --> 00:35:59.073
Go ahead.
00:35:59.418 --> 00:36:03.048
Dax: So we're bas I think, I think our
approach is we're gonna do two extremes.
00:36:03.138 --> 00:36:08.223
So today we have the extreme of
Next.js on AWS using all AWS stuff.
00:36:08.463 --> 00:36:12.423
Uh, we're gonna do a version of
next Js that is like very, very
00:36:12.423 --> 00:36:16.503
CloudFlare oriented, um, which
is like the kind of pretty much
00:36:16.503 --> 00:36:18.333
entirely running on, on CloudFlare.
00:36:18.603 --> 00:36:21.753
So the question is like, what about
the in-between step where you mix
00:36:21.753 --> 00:36:25.113
two, we're not a hundred percent sure
if people actually want this, but
00:36:25.143 --> 00:36:26.673
it could actually be pretty simple.
00:36:27.063 --> 00:36:31.473
Uh, it could just be dropping CloudFront
and then putting CloudFlare as as a CDN in
00:36:31.473 --> 00:36:31.893
front.
00:36:32.373 --> 00:36:32.823
Um,
00:36:33.048 --> 00:36:35.748
Adam: workers or lambda
functions at that point for
00:36:35.763 --> 00:36:37.593
Dax: You're still using Lambda functions.
00:36:37.653 --> 00:36:39.993
Uh, maybe you can do that.
00:36:39.993 --> 00:36:41.913
Like you can flag certain routes as
00:36:42.558 --> 00:36:42.738
Adam: as
00:36:42.843 --> 00:36:46.473
Dax: edge or whatever, and then
those can get deployed, but
00:36:47.388 --> 00:36:49.728
Adam: But CloudFlare workers,
I've never worked with them.
00:36:49.728 --> 00:36:51.348
They're not node, right?
00:36:51.468 --> 00:36:51.978
They're
00:36:52.028 --> 00:36:52.773
Dax: They're not Node.
00:36:52.863 --> 00:36:53.043
Yeah.
00:36:53.043 --> 00:36:54.693
And a lot of dependencies
do not work with them.
00:36:54.813 --> 00:36:56.373
You pretty much have
the architect for them.
00:36:56.778 --> 00:36:57.108
Adam: Yeah.
00:36:57.573 --> 00:36:57.903
Dax: Yeah.
00:36:58.383 --> 00:36:59.103
Um,
00:36:59.898 --> 00:37:01.038
Adam: functions or whatever.
00:37:01.743 --> 00:37:02.013
Dax: yeah.
00:37:02.043 --> 00:37:03.333
It's better than, I mean, it's not as
00:37:03.348 --> 00:37:04.308
Adam: It's more, yeah.
00:37:04.308 --> 00:37:05.298
Less limited than that.
00:37:05.313 --> 00:37:05.553
Dax: Yeah.
00:37:05.553 --> 00:37:06.483
And it's expanding.
00:37:06.543 --> 00:37:07.623
It's like constantly expanding.
00:37:07.623 --> 00:37:09.543
Like they're adding more and
more node APIs, kinda like how
00:37:09.543 --> 00:37:11.133
BUN is doing the same thing.
00:37:11.478 --> 00:37:11.628
Adam: yeah.
00:37:11.628 --> 00:37:12.588
So who's doing that work?
00:37:12.618 --> 00:37:16.398
That's just a CloudFlare team that's
kind of doing what the BUN team is doing.
00:37:16.688 --> 00:37:17.138
Sort of?
00:37:17.138 --> 00:37:17.868
Dax: Yep, yep.
00:37:17.883 --> 00:37:18.513
Exactly.
00:37:18.708 --> 00:37:23.688
Adam: Like building this other JavaScript
runtime that also supports node APIs.
00:37:24.023 --> 00:37:24.263
Dax: Yeah.
00:37:24.323 --> 00:37:25.883
But it's, it's like a narrower focus.
00:37:25.888 --> 00:37:27.923
Like they're not trying to be
like a hundred percent drop
00:37:27.923 --> 00:37:29.153
in compatibility with Node.
00:37:29.393 --> 00:37:31.433
Um, there's more constraints.
00:37:31.433 --> 00:37:34.133
'cause their goal is just to
host it really efficiently
00:37:34.133 --> 00:37:35.123
on their infrastructure.
00:37:35.643 --> 00:37:36.633
I mean they're working on that.
00:37:36.633 --> 00:37:40.323
And I think at this point it's it,
to be honest, it's a lot like moving
00:37:40.323 --> 00:37:43.293
from not serverless to serverless.
00:37:43.293 --> 00:37:47.193
Like you can try and just drop in your
old applications until end of function,
00:37:47.193 --> 00:37:50.493
but it's gonna be like, either not work
or it's gonna be an efficient Yeah.
00:37:50.493 --> 00:37:53.193
So people got to a place where they
were like architecting specifically
00:37:53.193 --> 00:37:54.543
for a Lambda architecture.
00:37:55.173 --> 00:37:58.833
Uh, it's kind of like that, like you would
architect specifically for CloudFlare.
00:37:59.298 --> 00:38:01.158
And all the primitives are there.
00:38:01.218 --> 00:38:05.808
And it, it's kind of interesting because
I've discovered that there are people
00:38:05.808 --> 00:38:07.668
building full applications on CloudFlare.
00:38:07.758 --> 00:38:10.278
Um, it's, it's happening like
people are already doing this
00:38:10.283 --> 00:38:11.178
or proving you can do it.
00:38:11.748 --> 00:38:13.188
They're all extremely pro.
00:38:13.338 --> 00:38:16.908
Like, they're all like, they all like
really know this stuff because you have
00:38:16.908 --> 00:38:19.038
to right now to like, use this stuff well.
00:38:19.528 --> 00:38:23.278
That's what's exciting to me 'cause I
feel like they've proven it's possible.
00:38:23.338 --> 00:38:26.668
I can see how it's possible and
it's really just missing something
00:38:26.668 --> 00:38:29.638
that like, brings it into the
hands of like the average person.
00:38:30.283 --> 00:38:33.328
Adam: Yeah, that's, that's what I
wondered, like what are the existing
00:38:33.328 --> 00:38:35.128
infrastructures, code options?
00:38:35.128 --> 00:38:36.538
Is it just Terraform right now
00:38:36.538 --> 00:38:38.038
Dax: It's just Terraform.
00:38:38.098 --> 00:38:41.518
Uh, and they have their own
Wrangler thing, which is uh, which
00:38:41.518 --> 00:38:44.698
is their like take on helping
you build stuff in CloudFlare.
00:38:45.058 --> 00:38:46.888
It's not infrastructure as code approach.
00:38:47.448 --> 00:38:50.748
And it's kind of like really focused
on building like a single worker
00:38:50.753 --> 00:38:52.368
as opposed to a whole application.
00:38:52.893 --> 00:38:56.523
Um, not to say you can't do that and
everyone doing CloudFlare stuff today is
00:38:56.523 --> 00:39:02.853
using Wrangler, but I think our approach,
what we did for AWS and Lambda and like
00:39:02.858 --> 00:39:06.543
the live debug and having your whole
application defined there and things
00:39:06.543 --> 00:39:11.823
connecting together, I think if we bring
that over it'll be really compelling.
00:39:12.258 --> 00:39:12.648
Adam: Yeah.
00:39:12.678 --> 00:39:15.258
Best dev experience on
CloudFlare, probably.
00:39:15.723 --> 00:39:16.173
Dax: Exactly.
00:39:16.173 --> 00:39:17.763
And the team has been
super, super helpful.
00:39:17.763 --> 00:39:21.183
Like they set up a Slack channel
with us and really proactive and
00:39:21.183 --> 00:39:22.743
like trying to like help us take over
00:39:23.328 --> 00:39:23.778
Adam: Yeah.
00:39:23.868 --> 00:39:26.358
You kind of had a similar
Lummi experience too, right?
00:39:26.418 --> 00:39:26.568
All
00:39:26.643 --> 00:39:26.883
Dax: Yeah.
00:39:26.883 --> 00:39:29.043
It's so weird when people
actually want to be helpful.
00:39:29.388 --> 00:39:30.048
Adam: What is this like?
00:39:30.048 --> 00:39:34.128
You started with just AWS and it's like,
man, working with companies is hard.
00:39:34.713 --> 00:39:35.193
Dax: Yeah.
00:39:35.463 --> 00:39:35.883
I know.
00:39:35.883 --> 00:39:39.903
AWS literally instead of just working with
us, they like spun up a team to copy SST.
00:39:39.903 --> 00:39:43.323
Like, it just like, why, it
just doesn't make any sense.
00:39:43.323 --> 00:39:44.853
Like no one on that team is motivated.
00:39:45.018 --> 00:39:46.638
Adam: I mean, that's
kind of how they operate.
00:39:46.728 --> 00:39:49.248
When you think about the open
source ecosystem, they've
00:39:49.248 --> 00:39:52.083
Dax: Like serverless framework and
Sam is kind of the same story I.
00:39:52.203 --> 00:39:52.863
Adam: Yeah.
00:39:53.133 --> 00:39:56.913
And then even outside of tooling, like
you look at runtime stuff with Elastic
00:39:56.913 --> 00:40:00.543
and there's been other stuff, right,
where they just kind of like, we'll just
00:40:00.543 --> 00:40:02.313
build a team that builds this stuff too.
00:40:02.973 --> 00:40:06.603
Dax: Yeah, it's, and it's fine for
stuff like that, but it just doesn't
00:40:06.608 --> 00:40:09.453
work for like last mile tools.
00:40:09.523 --> 00:40:11.953
It's like, why would it just,
not that it's not a good fit.
00:40:11.953 --> 00:40:15.373
So, uh, but yeah, it's nice
to have companies that one
00:40:15.373 --> 00:40:16.753
naturally do that stuff better.
00:40:17.053 --> 00:40:20.143
Like Cloudflare's stuff is
just so simple and, and nice.
00:40:20.403 --> 00:40:23.583
And on top of that, they're
like really excited about us
00:40:24.063 --> 00:40:25.473
building stuff for their eco.
00:40:25.473 --> 00:40:30.063
So what, as one as you would expect, one
would be when you're like, you know, you
00:40:30.063 --> 00:40:32.553
put something out there and other people
put it on top, that should excite you.
00:40:32.553 --> 00:40:32.853
Right?
00:40:33.543 --> 00:40:37.413
But it, uh, yeah,
surprisingly not with AWS.
00:40:37.923 --> 00:40:40.983
We need to get like the live
debug, so like, live, well we, we
00:40:40.983 --> 00:40:43.803
always called it live lambda, but
I guess it doesn't make sense here.
00:40:43.863 --> 00:40:45.003
We need a new name for it.
00:40:45.768 --> 00:40:48.378
Adam: Live functions or live something.
00:40:49.023 --> 00:40:52.533
Dax: Uh, once we get that working, then
yeah, people will be able to use workers.
00:40:52.538 --> 00:40:56.403
And I want, I need to find a way to
like subscribe a worker to an SQSQ.
00:40:56.403 --> 00:40:56.913
Like an event
00:40:57.078 --> 00:40:58.068
Adam: Oh, wow.
00:40:58.248 --> 00:40:58.848
Yeah.
00:40:59.478 --> 00:41:02.628
You're bringing it to people
like me who would've probably, it
00:41:02.628 --> 00:41:04.818
would've been a long time before
I really broke into CloudFlare.
00:41:05.133 --> 00:41:08.133
Dax: 'cause right now it's all or nothing,
but we think we can make an incremental
00:41:08.793 --> 00:41:10.953
pathway to using CloudFlare stuff.
00:41:11.398 --> 00:41:12.478
Adam: Hmm.
00:41:12.538 --> 00:41:14.008
All very fascinating stuff.
00:41:14.178 --> 00:41:17.478
I'm trying to, I'm teaching this, I'm
trying to like teach this stuff and it's
00:41:17.478 --> 00:41:23.778
a very moving target, like I want to teach
SST is a big part of, I think, bridging
00:41:23.778 --> 00:41:25.698
the gap between modern web devs and.
00:41:27.333 --> 00:41:31.353
things that you have to think about
for 10 seconds with infrastructure.
00:41:31.353 --> 00:41:33.423
Like they've just never
had to think about it.
00:41:33.423 --> 00:41:37.593
And they're like kind of coddled
with some of the other companies
00:41:37.593 --> 00:41:38.583
and tools that are out there.
00:41:39.573 --> 00:41:39.723
Yeah.
00:41:39.728 --> 00:41:44.013
So I feel like SST is this linchpin and
you guys just move so fast, it's very
00:41:44.163 --> 00:41:45.183
Dax: Yeah, I know.
00:41:46.143 --> 00:41:49.623
Adam: training materials and it's like,
I don't want to teach the old thing.
00:41:49.923 --> 00:41:51.483
Do I even consider stacks?
00:41:51.543 --> 00:41:53.103
Like those are gonna go away?
00:41:53.673 --> 00:41:56.013
Uh, now I'm just, I'm thinking out loud,
00:41:56.378 --> 00:41:56.668
Dax: Yeah.
00:41:56.883 --> 00:41:57.393
No, I know.
00:41:57.393 --> 00:41:58.743
It's, it's like, it's like a weird time.
00:41:58.743 --> 00:42:02.493
But I mean, AWS is still like our
big focus, the CloudFlare stuff
00:42:02.493 --> 00:42:04.263
is more to just make like harden
00:42:04.923 --> 00:42:09.123
our design so we're not like
so coupled to one thing.
00:42:09.843 --> 00:42:10.383
Yeah.
00:42:10.443 --> 00:42:14.373
Um, but the AWS stuff
on, on ion is also great.
00:42:14.373 --> 00:42:16.383
Like we've been deploying
stuff through that and
00:42:16.443 --> 00:42:16.623
Adam: Yeah.
00:42:16.623 --> 00:42:19.443
If you move past the, I know you
were working on the, the open
00:42:19.443 --> 00:42:21.093
next, the next JS construct.
00:42:21.153 --> 00:42:23.073
Have you gone into any
other constructs yet, or
00:42:23.313 --> 00:42:23.553
Dax: yeah.
00:42:23.558 --> 00:42:25.833
So we've got, uh, we've
got our function construct.
00:42:25.833 --> 00:42:27.933
We've got the new Aurora V two stuff.
00:42:27.933 --> 00:42:28.533
We've got,
00:42:28.863 --> 00:42:31.503
Adam: You got, the new Aurora
V two stuff with the data API.
00:42:32.163 --> 00:42:32.493
Dax: Yeah.
00:42:32.733 --> 00:42:33.843
Adam: That's all on ion now.
00:42:34.353 --> 00:42:34.833
Dax: Yeah.
00:42:34.923 --> 00:42:37.713
Uh, I mean, we haven't, we haven't like
released or documented any of this stuff.
00:42:37.713 --> 00:42:40.023
But the thing that I,
the thing that, yeah,
00:42:41.703 --> 00:42:43.533
Adam: I'm like, Dax,
gimme a new build today.
00:42:43.743 --> 00:42:44.373
I don't care.
00:42:44.463 --> 00:42:46.083
Just give it to me and then you do, and
00:42:46.293 --> 00:42:50.343
Dax: I, so the thing that I worked on the
last couple days was we have a new secret
00:42:50.343 --> 00:42:53.223
system and it's like so much better,
uh, the, all the stuff that you've been
00:42:53.223 --> 00:42:56.343
waiting for, like the pre fetcher for
astro, like, it, that's just how that
00:42:56.343 --> 00:43:01.293
works by default now in the, in, in ion
and a lot of stuff is like really clean.
00:43:01.473 --> 00:43:01.953
Um,
00:43:02.143 --> 00:43:02.703
Adam: when can I
00:43:02.823 --> 00:43:03.543
Dax: a lot simpler.
00:43:03.758 --> 00:43:04.623
Adam: for playing around?
00:43:04.683 --> 00:43:04.923
Dax: Yeah.
00:43:04.923 --> 00:43:06.093
So we actually talked about this.
00:43:06.098 --> 00:43:10.598
We're actually gonna use your
project as like, let's, like,
00:43:10.598 --> 00:43:12.248
help Adam successfully move over.
00:43:12.248 --> 00:43:15.848
And that'll be like a good test bed
of what the, the migration looks like.
00:43:16.088 --> 00:43:17.168
Adam: Let's, let's do that.
00:43:17.168 --> 00:43:18.488
Let's help Adam move over.
00:43:18.518 --> 00:43:19.028
I like it.
00:43:19.388 --> 00:43:19.778
Dax: yeah.
00:43:20.303 --> 00:43:24.563
Um, 'cause yours like between,
between your thing and our console,
00:43:24.563 --> 00:43:25.733
which also has to move over.
00:43:25.853 --> 00:43:27.563
That's like, I think that covers like a
00:43:27.563 --> 00:43:29.573
pretty, pretty good amount of things.
00:43:30.113 --> 00:43:30.353
Yeah.
00:43:30.353 --> 00:43:33.383
Soon I think we're, I think by end of
January we'll have like a stable release
00:43:33.383 --> 00:43:34.943
where I'm not breaking stuff all the time.
00:43:35.543 --> 00:43:36.623
Adam: That's insane to me.
00:43:36.803 --> 00:43:39.623
I remember thinking this was gonna
be like summer when you first talked
00:43:39.623 --> 00:43:44.453
about ion, like, like a whole new
rewrite, six months something, but it
00:43:44.453 --> 00:43:45.863
feels like it's moving really fast.
00:43:46.583 --> 00:43:47.093
Dax: Yeah.
00:43:47.183 --> 00:43:47.633
Yeah.
00:43:47.663 --> 00:43:50.423
It's this funny thing where, and
Jay talks about this all the time.
00:43:50.428 --> 00:43:53.633
I, I actually don't, I don't have
examples that come to mind right away,
00:43:53.633 --> 00:43:59.243
but this is like a common thing where
you'll have a team that has built a
00:43:59.243 --> 00:44:03.413
product and gained expertise in something
and they'll like launch a new, more
00:44:03.413 --> 00:44:06.503
focused thing using their expertise.
00:44:06.923 --> 00:44:09.623
And it usually comes out really
nice 'cause like the first X
00:44:09.623 --> 00:44:12.173
years were basically research
to build that expertise.
00:44:12.683 --> 00:44:16.103
And you just nail it on
that, uh, on that second try.
00:44:16.913 --> 00:44:19.043
Um, we're hoping that's how it pans out.
00:44:19.823 --> 00:44:19.973
Adam: Yeah.
00:44:19.973 --> 00:44:23.603
What, what is that adage that
the takes three implementations
00:44:23.603 --> 00:44:24.443
to get anything right.
00:44:25.163 --> 00:44:25.343
This is
00:44:25.403 --> 00:44:26.423
Dax: It really feels like that.
00:44:26.753 --> 00:44:27.653
Adam: of SST, right?
00:44:27.653 --> 00:44:28.073
Dax: Yeah.
00:44:28.163 --> 00:44:28.553
Yeah.
00:44:29.003 --> 00:44:29.963
Adam: SST two, and then
00:44:30.083 --> 00:44:31.073
Dax: One, two, and three.
00:44:31.133 --> 00:44:31.523
Yeah.
00:44:33.988 --> 00:44:34.278
Yeah.
00:44:35.153 --> 00:44:36.923
Adam: Never been a better
time to be a web developer.
00:44:37.193 --> 00:44:37.793
We really do.
00:44:37.823 --> 00:44:41.663
We really do have it made, like,
as much as Twitter can get really
00:44:41.663 --> 00:44:46.853
annoying and sometimes it just
feels like we spend a lot of time
00:44:47.213 --> 00:44:48.563
talking about the stupidest stuff.
00:44:49.193 --> 00:44:53.513
It really is, there's just so many ways to
do things today, and it's, it's exciting.
00:44:53.993 --> 00:44:56.093
Dax: I have a, this brings
up something for me.
00:44:56.123 --> 00:44:58.973
I dunno if you saw, I posted the other
day where I'm like, everything people
00:44:58.973 --> 00:45:00.593
talk about on Twitter's just so boring.
00:45:00.623 --> 00:45:02.633
Like it's just the most
boring, irrelevant stuff ever.
00:45:03.083 --> 00:45:04.043
Uh, Yeah.
00:45:04.043 --> 00:45:07.493
Talking to this guy yesterday that,
so, hi his, he's starting this
00:45:07.493 --> 00:45:12.113
company and he's not like trying
to do like, oh, like just the next
00:45:12.953 --> 00:45:15.443
iterative AI thing that like
generates a lot of buzz.
00:45:15.803 --> 00:45:21.863
He's imagining like, what could the
world look like in five years and given
00:45:21.863 --> 00:45:25.403
like x things exist in five years, like
what company would need to exist then?
00:45:25.853 --> 00:45:28.763
And he's trying to build, he's like
trying to end run it and build that now.
00:45:29.393 --> 00:45:32.393
Um, and it's talking about what
he's working on and it's like,
00:45:32.963 --> 00:45:34.313
obviously it's a massive bet.
00:45:34.313 --> 00:45:39.893
Like he's predicting like a lot of, uh,
really optimistic advancements in the
00:45:39.893 --> 00:45:42.503
next five years, like the most optimistic
case and he is building for that.
00:45:43.073 --> 00:45:44.453
But it obviously, it seems really crazy.
00:45:45.413 --> 00:45:49.523
And then I go on Twitter and people are
like arguing about ternary just like,
00:45:50.258 --> 00:45:52.188
Adam: That is a thing
in the last couple days.
00:45:52.188 --> 00:45:53.068
What, where'd that come from?
00:45:53.303 --> 00:45:53.603
Dax: yeah.
00:45:53.603 --> 00:45:58.583
I'm just like, like this guy is
imagining a world where you literally
00:45:58.583 --> 00:46:02.243
like onboard an AI agent the same way
you onboard an employee and give them
00:46:02.243 --> 00:46:05.213
access to like their Okta account,
their Google Drive account, and you
00:46:05.218 --> 00:46:08.303
like train them and then you like work
with them as like a real employee.
00:46:08.828 --> 00:46:12.368
And then people are like debating like,
ternary I'm just like, you guys, there's
00:46:12.368 --> 00:46:13.808
a, there's like a bulldozer coming.
00:46:13.813 --> 00:46:16.328
Like, you have no idea
what's, what's on the way.
00:46:16.328 --> 00:46:19.088
And this is like, you know, if this
is what we're gonna talk about.
00:46:19.088 --> 00:46:19.448
Yeah.
00:46:19.508 --> 00:46:21.218
I think we deserve to get squished,
00:46:21.233 --> 00:46:21.623
Adam: need to be
00:46:21.788 --> 00:46:23.108
Dax: squished by that.
00:46:23.558 --> 00:46:27.998
Um, yeah, obviously he's like you
extremely, he represents like the
00:46:27.998 --> 00:46:30.548
maximal like AI maximalist scenario.
00:46:30.608 --> 00:46:33.548
Uh, and even for that, like there's
still so much work to be done in the
00:46:33.548 --> 00:46:37.638
world he's envisioning, but not by
the people arguing about ternary.
00:46:37.958 --> 00:46:38.768
I guarantee that.
00:46:39.018 --> 00:46:39.068
Like,
00:46:40.703 --> 00:46:41.813
Adam: Oh man.
00:46:42.628 --> 00:46:42.778
Dax: Yeah.
00:46:42.783 --> 00:46:46.708
I just feel like stuff just
feels like boring or like
00:46:46.708 --> 00:46:47.938
kind of out of touch or Yeah.
00:46:47.938 --> 00:46:49.938
I just feel a little like detached
00:46:50.323 --> 00:46:50.623
Adam: Yeah.
00:46:50.623 --> 00:46:54.343
It does feel like there's just a lot
of manufacturing stuff to talk about,
00:46:54.433 --> 00:46:59.263
'cause we're all just kind of in this
collective space of Twitter and I.
00:46:59.988 --> 00:47:00.373
I don't know.
00:47:00.703 --> 00:47:04.123
You can only, like, I just don't
really talk about tech anymore,
00:47:04.243 --> 00:47:06.163
maybe because of these things.
00:47:06.643 --> 00:47:12.403
Uh, I feel like you can only talk
about what you ate and how you
00:47:12.703 --> 00:47:14.413
worked out today so many times.
00:47:14.503 --> 00:47:15.823
And then it's just kinda like, I'm bored.
00:47:16.063 --> 00:47:17.143
I don't have a reason to be here.
00:47:18.073 --> 00:47:19.023
Let's talk about ternary.
00:47:19.803 --> 00:47:20.093
Dax: Yeah.
00:47:20.338 --> 00:47:23.128
Well, I was even reading my, it was
like going through like some of my
00:47:23.133 --> 00:47:25.588
tweets for the past week, and I'm
like, yeah, I don't really talk
00:47:25.588 --> 00:47:28.168
about programming that much anymore.
00:47:28.718 --> 00:47:31.183
Adam: Is it more like, I'm
trying to think what you tweet.
00:47:31.183 --> 00:47:35.503
Is it more like, uh, higher
level, like thought processes and
00:47:35.508 --> 00:47:37.303
organizational philosophies and
00:47:37.313 --> 00:47:40.948
Dax: I, I don't even know, like, I, I
don't, I don't know if the stuff I talk
00:47:40.948 --> 00:47:45.568
about has a category, but I just know
I'm not talking about like programming.
00:47:45.718 --> 00:47:46.228
Really.
00:47:46.788 --> 00:47:47.008
Adam: no.
00:47:47.008 --> 00:47:49.543
Yeah, it's still tech related.
00:47:49.543 --> 00:47:49.783
It's,
00:47:49.978 --> 00:47:50.458
Dax: Yeah.
00:47:51.043 --> 00:47:51.283
Adam: it, yeah.
00:47:51.283 --> 00:47:52.413
It's Daxism.
00:47:52.753 --> 00:47:56.683
It's just every tweet is like a,
it's like a Dax view of the world.
00:47:57.353 --> 00:48:00.673
Dax: It's either that or it's
a troll or it's an insult.
00:48:00.913 --> 00:48:01.753
Those are my three.
00:48:02.143 --> 00:48:02.473
Adam: people.
00:48:02.473 --> 00:48:03.373
There's a lot of that too.
00:48:03.373 --> 00:48:03.703
Yeah.
00:48:04.273 --> 00:48:05.713
Dax: You know, people love being insulted.
00:48:05.983 --> 00:48:06.703
Adam: they really do.
00:48:06.793 --> 00:48:10.903
I think people like you, you come
off a certain way at first, and
00:48:10.903 --> 00:48:13.123
then they're like, man, I kind of
like being talked to like that.
00:48:13.123 --> 00:48:13.753
Like I like that
00:48:13.753 --> 00:48:14.503
Dax is mean to me.
00:48:16.273 --> 00:48:18.313
Dax: Everyone just wants someone
to be a little mean to them.
00:48:18.493 --> 00:48:19.543
That's what I'm convinced of.
00:48:19.543 --> 00:48:20.473
People love it every time.
00:48:20.473 --> 00:48:21.673
I'm like aggressively mean.
00:48:21.673 --> 00:48:24.403
Those tweets are the ones that
go like, get the most likes.
00:48:24.463 --> 00:48:25.513
I'm like, you all love this.
00:48:25.513 --> 00:48:26.053
I know it.
00:48:26.803 --> 00:48:27.733
Adam: That's so funny.
00:48:28.033 --> 00:48:28.363
Dax: Yeah.
00:48:28.693 --> 00:48:31.303
I wonder if it's because everyone
reads it and they're like,
00:48:31.813 --> 00:48:32.923
he is not talking about me.
00:48:32.923 --> 00:48:34.303
He's talking about everybody else.
00:48:36.313 --> 00:48:39.073
Adam: You tweeted something,
you tweeted something yesterday.
00:48:39.073 --> 00:48:41.803
I had the opposite thought where
I was like, he's talking about me.
00:48:41.833 --> 00:48:43.723
It was something you said.
00:48:43.723 --> 00:48:44.323
Uh.
00:48:45.193 --> 00:48:46.033
What was it?
00:48:46.273 --> 00:48:49.483
It was something about like upfront
pain, like work, you only wanna work
00:48:49.483 --> 00:48:53.503
with people anytime you say you only
wanna work with people that do x.
00:48:53.623 --> 00:48:56.533
I think, oh man, I did something
that's the opposite of that.
00:48:56.533 --> 00:48:58.183
And he's like, I'm so
tired of working with Adam.
00:48:58.818 --> 00:49:02.053
That's, that's when I asked you if
I was annoying you because I really
00:49:02.053 --> 00:49:02.953
thought that tweet was about me.
00:49:03.458 --> 00:49:04.033
And it
00:49:04.183 --> 00:49:08.053
Dax: but no, that, it's funny 'cause I
think you're a good example of that tweet.
00:49:09.223 --> 00:49:09.703
Like you take
00:49:09.703 --> 00:49:09.973
a lot of
00:49:10.333 --> 00:49:10.933
Adam: the upfront.
00:49:11.203 --> 00:49:12.283
Oh, I do do that.
00:49:12.343 --> 00:49:13.903
'cause I don't know if I do or not.
00:49:13.933 --> 00:49:14.953
I mean, I do cold plunges.
00:49:14.953 --> 00:49:16.873
That's upfront pain, so.
00:49:17.293 --> 00:49:19.693
Dax: I'm definitely not, I'm definitely
not encouraging your cold plunges.
00:49:19.693 --> 00:49:19.993
Don't,
00:49:20.203 --> 00:49:20.563
Adam: Okay.
00:49:20.983 --> 00:49:22.393
That's why I was late today, by the way.
00:49:22.543 --> 00:49:23.398
I was in the cold plunge,
00:49:23.773 --> 00:49:24.703
Dax: And you like almost died.
00:49:24.733 --> 00:49:26.353
You like, you like froze.
00:49:26.743 --> 00:49:28.363
Adam: Yeah, it's like 20 degrees outside.
00:49:28.363 --> 00:49:29.443
It really sucks when there's
00:49:29.473 --> 00:49:29.743
Dax: Okay.
00:49:29.743 --> 00:49:32.653
You know, here's my
suggestion for your sleep.
00:49:32.653 --> 00:49:37.963
Maybe just like reset everything
and be like, go back to not doing
00:49:37.963 --> 00:49:38.443
anything.
00:49:38.533 --> 00:49:40.633
Adam: like stop listening
to huberman and like
00:49:40.708 --> 00:49:43.628
Dax: You just have like, so you have
so many variables going on here.
00:49:43.778 --> 00:49:44.128
Adam: do
00:49:44.638 --> 00:49:45.718
Dax: it, it's a lot.
00:49:46.318 --> 00:49:48.298
So I feel you just need to cut and
00:49:48.748 --> 00:49:49.048
Adam: Yeah.
00:49:49.048 --> 00:49:51.718
I have introduced like a
ton of new supplements, a
00:49:51.718 --> 00:49:53.548
ton of new workout routines.
00:49:53.608 --> 00:49:56.848
It's just a lot of different
things in the last few weeks maybe.
00:49:56.878 --> 00:49:57.688
Maybe it is.
00:49:57.778 --> 00:50:00.148
It's one of those things and
I need to just chill out.
00:50:01.168 --> 00:50:04.168
Maybe I've just seen a
little like reset, just
00:50:04.198 --> 00:50:04.378
Dax: Yeah.
00:50:04.378 --> 00:50:06.178
I mean you can bring these
things back in, but maybe it'll
00:50:06.178 --> 00:50:07.378
give you some clarity on what,
00:50:07.798 --> 00:50:08.218
Adam: yeah.
00:50:08.398 --> 00:50:09.058
Dax: what it is.
00:50:10.228 --> 00:50:11.668
Adam: Casey's convinced it's just stress.
00:50:11.938 --> 00:50:13.438
I don't feel extra stressed.
00:50:13.978 --> 00:50:17.548
I feel normal stress, which is
like, I always feel stressed.
00:50:17.553 --> 00:50:20.698
I always just assume like,
we're never gonna make another
00:50:20.698 --> 00:50:22.288
dollar and I have to do.
00:50:22.288 --> 00:50:23.398
You do, do you have that feeling?
00:50:23.398 --> 00:50:26.218
Like just constantly feel
like it's all gonna go away.
00:50:26.218 --> 00:50:27.628
I'm never gonna be able
to make money again.
00:50:27.628 --> 00:50:29.998
And it's like every month is like a new,
00:50:30.418 --> 00:50:33.808
Dax: I feel it's funny like the
further I get my career like.
00:50:34.993 --> 00:50:37.963
Like, of course your fallbacks
and your floor increases, but like
00:50:37.963 --> 00:50:39.073
never actually feels that way.
00:50:39.403 --> 00:50:39.763
Adam: Never.
00:50:39.763 --> 00:50:41.023
Yeah, you never feel safe.
00:50:41.083 --> 00:50:41.413
You never
00:50:41.413 --> 00:50:41.833
Dax: Yeah.
00:50:42.583 --> 00:50:43.663
Adam: things are just set.
00:50:44.143 --> 00:50:46.063
It's always this feeling of
00:50:46.213 --> 00:50:47.533
Dax: The world just keeps changing.
00:50:47.983 --> 00:50:48.763
Adam: yeah, Uhhuh.
00:50:49.273 --> 00:50:50.413
Dax: Stuff just keeps changing.
00:50:50.473 --> 00:50:53.953
Like if, if, if the world froze
where it was like three or four
00:50:53.953 --> 00:50:55.513
years ago, I'd probably feel like
00:50:55.843 --> 00:50:56.173
Adam: Yeah.
00:50:57.103 --> 00:50:58.243
Dax: something, but
00:50:58.303 --> 00:51:01.603
Adam: But now I can't help but think
about the AI agents that somebody's gonna
00:51:01.603 --> 00:51:05.473
unleash and like, knowledge workers are
just all gonna lose our jobs en mass.
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:06.399
Okay.
00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:07.269
I am breathing good.
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:10.179
I'm gonna lower that cortisol.
00:51:12.069 --> 00:51:13.989
Dax: Maybe you can't sleep
'cause of fear of ai.
00:51:14.769 --> 00:51:19.384
Adam: maybe AI has
scared me sleepless, huh?
00:51:20.724 --> 00:51:22.239
Well, I don't know what to do about that.
00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:26.499
The cold plunge isn't, I can't cut
that out and see any improvement.
00:51:27.433 --> 00:51:28.753
All right, this just got really dark.
00:51:28.813 --> 00:51:30.163
I feel like we need to end.
00:51:30.163 --> 00:51:31.933
Can we end on some kind
of a high note here?
00:51:32.233 --> 00:51:33.103
Dax: uh.
00:51:33.463 --> 00:51:34.933
I hung out with Ken Wheeler,
00:51:35.713 --> 00:51:35.983
Adam: Oh
00:51:36.073 --> 00:51:37.363
Dax: uh, on Tuesday.
00:51:37.603 --> 00:51:38.383
Adam: Yeah,
00:51:39.163 --> 00:51:39.283
that
00:51:39.283 --> 00:51:39.733
was good.
00:51:39.733 --> 00:51:41.173
What was What was, the drink?
00:51:41.203 --> 00:51:44.203
What was the, I saw the tweet
with the, like, came out in a
00:51:44.863 --> 00:51:45.673
Dax: He, he shows
00:51:45.678 --> 00:51:50.383
up and he is like, he messages me being
like, oh, I have to get drinks with, he is
00:51:50.383 --> 00:51:52.543
got, got skip level meeting or whatever.
00:51:52.963 --> 00:52:00.193
Um, and he shows up and he's had six
old fashions already and he's showing
00:52:00.198 --> 00:52:02.533
me texts from the guy he met with.
00:52:02.533 --> 00:52:06.853
And the guy just like done, he's
like back at the hotel room,
00:52:06.853 --> 00:52:08.983
like just completely just done.
00:52:09.523 --> 00:52:12.283
And Ken is like, like, you would
never even think he's drunk.
00:52:12.283 --> 00:52:15.583
He just seems like jolly, like he
doesn't really seem like anything.
00:52:16.273 --> 00:52:20.683
Uh, and then we sit down and then
he gets, he talks like we're talking
00:52:20.683 --> 00:52:23.563
to the waiter and then he's like,
oh, do you like old fashioned?
00:52:23.653 --> 00:52:24.793
And he goes, I just had six of them.
00:52:24.973 --> 00:52:26.743
And then the waiter's like,
okay, well you want more?
00:52:27.388 --> 00:52:30.508
And it's like some fancy old fashioned,
and they brought it out in a box
00:52:30.508 --> 00:52:32.398
full of, maybe it was dry ice.
00:52:32.473 --> 00:52:33.073
Adam: dry ice.
00:52:33.268 --> 00:52:34.978
Dax: it was that, uh, steam thing.
00:52:35.578 --> 00:52:36.928
Um, the fog thing.
00:52:36.928 --> 00:52:38.488
So yeah, he ordered two of those.
00:52:38.548 --> 00:52:39.538
So he had eight total.
00:52:40.118 --> 00:52:40.898
Adam: Oh my word.
00:52:41.428 --> 00:52:41.878
Dax: And again,
00:52:41.923 --> 00:52:42.673
Adam: Did you drink?
00:52:42.673 --> 00:52:44.053
Did you drink anything or were you
00:52:44.053 --> 00:52:44.233
just
00:52:44.238 --> 00:52:45.133
completely sober?
00:52:45.268 --> 00:52:48.148
Dax: I had one drink and I was driving.
00:52:48.148 --> 00:52:52.348
So I, I couldn't, I didn't wanna
drink too much, but, uh, yeah, I was
00:52:52.348 --> 00:52:56.248
like, if I think if I had like two,
I would definitely be like, obviously
00:52:56.253 --> 00:52:59.578
drunk and three, I would be like very
00:52:59.583 --> 00:53:00.058
drunk.
00:53:00.568 --> 00:53:01.078
Yeah.
00:53:01.318 --> 00:53:04.888
And yeah, he just like, he's just
a very functioning alcoholic.
00:53:04.888 --> 00:53:08.248
It just, it is impressive.
00:53:08.263 --> 00:53:09.493
Adam: Uh, it's funny.
00:53:10.153 --> 00:53:10.303
Um,
00:53:10.798 --> 00:53:12.508
Dax: Uh, he made fun of you.
00:53:12.958 --> 00:53:13.558
I brought you up.
00:53:13.558 --> 00:53:16.078
He made fun of you as
you as you would expect.
00:53:16.393 --> 00:53:17.443
Adam: I would expect, yeah.
00:53:18.103 --> 00:53:22.183
I've only had the one Ken experience
in Atlanta, but I'm sure he
00:53:22.188 --> 00:53:23.173
had plenty of material to work
00:53:23.218 --> 00:53:25.138
Dax: Very intense place to meet him.
00:53:25.603 --> 00:53:26.443
Adam: Yeah, right.
00:53:26.503 --> 00:53:28.603
He's got a, a lot going on in Atlanta.
00:53:30.373 --> 00:53:30.553
Um.
00:53:31.333 --> 00:53:32.563
Dax: Yeah, it was fun.
00:53:32.563 --> 00:53:34.453
He just told me like a million
stories because he has just
00:53:34.453 --> 00:53:35.863
like the craziest, craziest
00:53:35.868 --> 00:53:36.403
stories.
00:53:37.003 --> 00:53:39.583
Uh, and I was just
laughing the whole time.
00:53:40.813 --> 00:53:40.873
Adam: Yeah.
00:53:40.873 --> 00:53:43.003
That's how my experience with Ken is gone.
00:53:43.093 --> 00:53:44.353
Dax: and then I dropped
him off at his hotel.
00:53:44.503 --> 00:53:45.643
He actually might move here.
00:53:45.943 --> 00:53:46.483
Like, seriously?
00:53:46.513 --> 00:53:48.163
Not even, not even as a joke.
00:53:48.583 --> 00:53:50.653
Adam: Yeah, he, I mean,
he belongs in Miami.
00:53:50.743 --> 00:53:50.863
He
00:53:50.983 --> 00:53:52.483
Dax: yeah, he fits in perfectly.
00:53:52.603 --> 00:53:54.493
Uh, his company's HQ is here.
00:53:55.183 --> 00:53:57.943
They probably want him to be
around here to begin with.
00:53:58.543 --> 00:53:58.753
Adam: Yeah.
00:53:58.783 --> 00:53:59.443
Keep tabs.
00:53:59.863 --> 00:54:00.193
Dax: Yeah.
00:54:00.193 --> 00:54:02.203
And if he moves here,
he's actually gonna move.
00:54:02.293 --> 00:54:05.203
I think he would move to a neighborhood
like five minutes away from me.
00:54:05.803 --> 00:54:10.783
So how weird would it be if the
two people that were, that, the
00:54:10.788 --> 00:54:13.933
two engineers from Tech Twitter,
that from Miami are Me and Ken.
00:54:13.993 --> 00:54:14.653
It's just like,
00:54:16.813 --> 00:54:17.353
Adam: Uh, two
00:54:17.506 --> 00:54:18.839
Dax: Jersey, so there's
like, there's a, there's a,
00:54:18.844 --> 00:54:20.773
there's some like,
there's some like history.
00:54:21.043 --> 00:54:21.283
Yeah.
00:54:21.283 --> 00:54:22.423
There's something going on here.
00:54:24.288 --> 00:54:25.788
He's giving a talk at React Miami.
00:54:26.073 --> 00:54:27.603
Adam: I was gonna say, I'm
excited about React Miami.
00:54:27.603 --> 00:54:30.483
I guess all the speaker that I've
been seeing, the people post like
00:54:30.483 --> 00:54:33.843
I'm speaking or I'm not speaking,
so I guess that's all happened now.
00:54:33.858 --> 00:54:34.098
Dax: Yeah.
00:54:34.098 --> 00:54:37.938
The official posts with the speakers
are gonna be in five days or
00:54:37.938 --> 00:54:39.708
think something I think next week,
00:54:39.768 --> 00:54:40.158
mid next
00:54:40.293 --> 00:54:42.693
Adam: some disappointment, like I've
been disappointed in some of the people
00:54:42.693 --> 00:54:45.873
that won't be speaking, and I guess
like those people just don't come
00:54:45.933 --> 00:54:47.403
when they're not speaking, which is
00:54:47.418 --> 00:54:47.568
Dax: know.
00:54:47.628 --> 00:54:48.528
'cause it's expensive.
00:54:48.588 --> 00:54:49.158
Yeah.
00:54:50.118 --> 00:54:50.328
Yeah.
00:54:50.328 --> 00:54:50.448
It
00:54:50.553 --> 00:54:52.753
Adam: As someone who's not trying
to speak, I'm just planning on going
00:54:52.753 --> 00:54:55.233
to React Miami, and then I learn
like, oh, these people won't be there
00:54:55.238 --> 00:54:56.583
because their talk didn't get accepted.
00:54:56.583 --> 00:54:57.213
That sucks.
00:54:57.283 --> 00:54:57.573
Dax: Yeah.
00:54:58.158 --> 00:55:02.538
So I saw the full speaker list and
I think it was a conservative pick.
00:55:02.658 --> 00:55:10.488
I think It wasn't like, there wasn't
many like weirder choices for talk.
00:55:10.488 --> 00:55:11.748
I think it was like kind of conservative.
00:55:11.983 --> 00:55:12.103
I.
00:55:12.243 --> 00:55:12.513
Which I
00:55:12.513 --> 00:55:12.843
get
00:55:12.873 --> 00:55:13.653
Adam: it's a hard thing.
00:55:13.653 --> 00:55:13.803
You've
00:55:13.833 --> 00:55:14.223
Dax: there's like,
00:55:14.253 --> 00:55:18.333
yeah, so many spots and there's like
a lot of eyeballs on it this year.
00:55:18.333 --> 00:55:22.953
So it definitely, probably feels difficult
to make, like bets on weird things.
00:55:23.433 --> 00:55:29.313
Um, so it's, it's like very much
like anything tech related is
00:55:29.313 --> 00:55:31.413
like, pretty much react related.
00:55:31.448 --> 00:55:35.553
Um, there's like not too much like
outside the bounds of that, uh,
00:55:36.303 --> 00:55:37.533
but it'll still be a good time.
00:55:37.563 --> 00:55:37.683
I
00:55:38.013 --> 00:55:39.063
Adam: Oh, it's gonna be such a good time.
00:55:39.603 --> 00:55:42.123
Dax: there's still a good amount of
people that are going, regardless
00:55:42.128 --> 00:55:46.383
of they're talking, except it or
not, um, my party's gonna be fun.
00:55:46.413 --> 00:55:47.163
I'm excited about
00:55:47.433 --> 00:55:49.413
Adam: Oh, I'm so excited about your party.
00:55:49.413 --> 00:55:50.913
If I'm invited, I'm excited.
00:55:51.303 --> 00:55:52.023
I can come, right?
00:55:52.683 --> 00:55:55.233
Dax: Did I tell you about
the funny detail about
00:55:55.425 --> 00:55:56.265
that situation?
00:55:56.745 --> 00:55:57.105
Adam: No.
00:55:57.365 --> 00:55:57.815
Dax: Do you know?
00:55:58.085 --> 00:55:58.955
This is so high school.
00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:00.245
It's the most high school thing ever.
00:56:00.250 --> 00:56:02.435
But, uh, if they
00:56:02.580 --> 00:56:04.145
Adam: Is there a rival party
00:56:04.265 --> 00:56:08.225
Dax: and we're, yes, not really,
not really a rival party, but
00:56:08.225 --> 00:56:09.515
it's during Guillermo's keynote.
00:56:10.775 --> 00:56:14.015
Adam: What your, wait, your party's
gonna be during his keynote?
00:56:14.330 --> 00:56:14.720
Dax: Yeah.
00:56:14.750 --> 00:56:18.350
Because like, you know how React,
react Miami is like inside a bigger
00:56:18.515 --> 00:56:19.175
Adam: Oh, yeah.
00:56:19.175 --> 00:56:19.685
The,
00:56:19.940 --> 00:56:20.210
Dax: Yeah.
00:56:20.210 --> 00:56:22.610
And they wanted to do like
something with React Miami.
00:56:22.615 --> 00:56:25.910
So having Guillermo give a talk
at the main conference, and I'm
00:56:25.910 --> 00:56:29.900
pretty sure my thing is during
it and I'm like, this is perfect.
00:56:30.560 --> 00:56:31.310
This is perfect.
00:56:31.790 --> 00:56:34.130
Adam: I thought you were saying
there was another party going on
00:56:34.220 --> 00:56:34.910
Dax: I mean, it's sort Yeah.
00:56:34.910 --> 00:56:36.950
It's like, there's like a
conflict at the same time.
00:56:36.980 --> 00:56:37.610
Adam: a conflict.
00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:38.210
Dax: Yeah.
00:56:39.530 --> 00:56:41.180
So people are gonna have to choose pick.
00:56:41.360 --> 00:56:42.140
Adam: Choose between.
00:56:42.145 --> 00:56:42.590
Yeah.
00:56:42.680 --> 00:56:42.830
I
00:56:43.130 --> 00:56:43.430
Dax: Pick
00:56:43.790 --> 00:56:46.100
Adam: The tension between
you and the triangle company.
00:56:46.100 --> 00:56:47.570
It's one of my favorite
things on the internet.
00:56:48.290 --> 00:56:48.770
Dax: Yeah.
00:56:48.860 --> 00:56:49.700
It is funny.
00:56:50.022 --> 00:56:51.012
I just love the asymmetry.
00:56:51.012 --> 00:56:51.492
It's, it's
00:56:51.642 --> 00:56:55.692
Adam: Well, 'cause like you're a person
and they're like a venture-backed entity.
00:56:55.962 --> 00:56:57.972
So like they could have an ending.
00:56:57.972 --> 00:57:01.452
I guess you could have an ending too,
but like, I dunno, you eat pretty good.
00:57:01.452 --> 00:57:02.952
You seem like you're
taking care of yourself.
00:57:03.252 --> 00:57:03.462
So
00:57:03.912 --> 00:57:04.872
Dax: I will outlast them.
00:57:04.872 --> 00:57:05.292
Yes.
00:57:05.532 --> 00:57:05.952
Adam: I would think
00:57:06.087 --> 00:57:06.627
Dax: I think it's a good
00:57:06.672 --> 00:57:08.562
Adam: Most companies
don't make it very long.
00:57:08.562 --> 00:57:11.292
That's not, I'm not gonna
have to put like shame on them
00:57:11.472 --> 00:57:12.537
Dax: No, that's, yeah, just like
00:57:12.617 --> 00:57:14.382
Adam: like most companies
don't last that long.
00:57:15.012 --> 00:57:16.692
So yeah, it's an interesting.
00:57:17.037 --> 00:57:17.367
Dax: Yeah.
00:57:17.367 --> 00:57:22.017
So, yeah, Stefan was saying the other
day, like, are you like worried because
00:57:22.017 --> 00:57:25.857
there's like, you know, people invested
like hundreds of millions of dollars
00:57:25.857 --> 00:57:27.237
into this thing and like,
00:57:27.362 --> 00:57:27.687
Adam: Yeah.
00:57:27.687 --> 00:57:29.007
And you're like the antagonist.
00:57:29.067 --> 00:57:30.147
Dax: if I, yeah, like
00:57:31.077 --> 00:57:34.467
Adam: There are like movies
with less crazy plots where
00:57:34.467 --> 00:57:37.047
like your character gets killed.
00:57:37.467 --> 00:57:38.127
Dax: Yeah, I know.
00:57:38.127 --> 00:57:38.517
It's,
00:57:38.697 --> 00:57:39.177
Adam: you've said.
00:57:39.597 --> 00:57:41.427
Wow, you're really brave, Dax.
00:57:41.427 --> 00:57:41.967
You're so brave.
00:57:42.507 --> 00:57:45.657
Dax: People bring that one up, but
nobody, everyone forgets Prisma.
00:57:45.662 --> 00:57:48.747
Prisma is really the one
that I'm the most proud of.
00:57:49.017 --> 00:57:51.717
Adam: Like you're the most proud
of your stance on Prisma and
00:57:51.807 --> 00:57:53.967
Dax: well, 'cause they were just
such an annoyance for me personally,
00:57:53.967 --> 00:57:55.077
every single day of my life.
00:57:55.077 --> 00:57:57.447
'cause of all the support we had
to do, trying to get Prisma working
00:57:57.447 --> 00:58:01.227
inside Lambda and just
everything around that.
00:58:01.347 --> 00:58:02.637
Uh, and then.
00:58:03.987 --> 00:58:06.147
Guillermo built his new demo with Drizzle.
00:58:07.287 --> 00:58:08.007
Adam: Ooh.
00:58:08.277 --> 00:58:10.587
So even Vercel has moved away.
00:58:10.587 --> 00:58:10.857
Sorry.
00:58:10.857 --> 00:58:13.467
Even the triangle company
has moved away from Prisma.
00:58:13.737 --> 00:58:14.037
Yeah.
00:58:14.037 --> 00:58:17.637
Does I feel like everyone just kind of
collectively, and you were a big part of
00:58:17.637 --> 00:58:22.767
the, the wave here, like everyone just
sort of collectively did away with Prisma.
00:58:23.217 --> 00:58:25.317
Like obviously Drizzle done really well.
00:58:25.557 --> 00:58:26.997
A lot of people just moved to Drizzle.
00:58:26.997 --> 00:58:30.027
But even aside from that, just
like people stopped using Prisma,
00:58:30.027 --> 00:58:32.997
it became known like Prisma bad.
00:58:33.507 --> 00:58:35.367
And mostly because like, it was so tight.
00:58:35.367 --> 00:58:39.747
People, everyone that uses Vercel
takes up the majority of the,
00:58:39.957 --> 00:58:41.577
the discourse on Twitter already.
00:58:42.027 --> 00:58:46.017
Uh, so they're the most vocal and
they were all like using Prisma,
00:58:46.107 --> 00:58:47.847
which was just a terrible combination.
00:58:48.297 --> 00:58:49.617
And yeah, it's
00:58:49.827 --> 00:58:50.247
Dax: Yeah.
00:58:50.607 --> 00:58:52.317
And that, that's like that, you
know, that company raised like
00:58:52.317 --> 00:58:53.037
a hundred something million
00:58:53.037 --> 00:58:53.337
dollars
00:58:53.397 --> 00:58:54.597
Adam: the, like, they're big, right?
00:58:54.597 --> 00:58:56.367
They have like a lot of people, a
00:58:56.457 --> 00:58:58.917
Dax: or they used to at least, I don't
know what's going on with them lately.
00:58:59.127 --> 00:59:00.807
But yeah, I never see
anyone talking about.
00:59:01.617 --> 00:59:03.657
Like rarely see people
talking about Prisma anymore.
00:59:04.287 --> 00:59:04.857
Um,
00:59:05.832 --> 00:59:07.842
Adam: Yeah, there's a lot of
venture dollars at stake here.
00:59:07.842 --> 00:59:11.652
Dax, you, you've kind of been like
on a heater, you should probably
00:59:11.652 --> 00:59:12.522
look over your shoulder a little
00:59:12.657 --> 00:59:12.957
Dax: Okay.
00:59:12.957 --> 00:59:14.937
But hey, here's the thing.
00:59:15.837 --> 00:59:17.097
I just love money.
00:59:17.157 --> 00:59:18.597
If you want me to stop, just pay me.
00:59:18.792 --> 00:59:19.332
Adam: Just pay.
00:59:19.707 --> 00:59:20.007
Dax: Just pay.
00:59:20.007 --> 00:59:20.877
You don't have to kill me.
00:59:20.967 --> 00:59:23.637
You don't have to do anything
that's, you know, risking you go
00:59:23.712 --> 00:59:25.242
Adam: just pay you and you'll be nice.
00:59:25.247 --> 00:59:27.402
You'll start saying
positive things about Prisma
00:59:27.402 --> 00:59:28.917
Dax: I won't say positive
things, but I'll shut up.
00:59:29.292 --> 00:59:30.222
Adam: You just won't say bad
00:59:30.222 --> 00:59:30.462
things.
00:59:30.522 --> 00:59:31.092
Oh, right.
00:59:31.092 --> 00:59:31.212
You
00:59:31.257 --> 00:59:31.407
Dax: It's
00:59:31.512 --> 00:59:33.732
Adam: have to, oh, you haven't
said anything about Prisma in a
00:59:33.732 --> 00:59:35.232
while if I'm thinking about it.
00:59:36.852 --> 00:59:38.682
Is that because everyone stopped
using it and you don't feel like
00:59:38.682 --> 00:59:40.512
you need to or because a little,
00:59:40.677 --> 00:59:41.697
Dax: Wish they were paying me.
00:59:41.907 --> 00:59:42.927
I wish they were paying me.
00:59:43.227 --> 00:59:49.677
Honestly, it just takes, I think it's
worth like a hundred K a year to have me
00:59:49.677 --> 00:59:51.237
shut up and never talk about your company.
00:59:51.882 --> 00:59:51.972
Adam: I
00:59:52.077 --> 00:59:53.637
Dax: Just a couple of
those companies like,
00:59:53.847 --> 00:59:56.547
Adam: If you're Prisma, it really is,
the economics actually makes sense.
00:59:56.727 --> 00:59:58.257
Dax: yeah, it makes a
hundred percent sense.
00:59:58.467 --> 00:59:59.727
Adam: it really does make sense.
00:59:59.907 --> 01:00:02.877
I'm sure you've caused that much
in damages, not to just keep
01:00:02.907 --> 01:00:07.437
beating this drum and don't need
to really get somebody after you.
01:00:07.437 --> 01:00:07.917
But
01:00:08.262 --> 01:00:08.742
Dax: Yeah.
01:00:08.982 --> 01:00:14.052
So that's, I mean, that's like a reverse
dev, re reverse sponsorship or something.
01:00:14.127 --> 01:00:17.307
Adam: Yeah, I say, well, so I started
doing the math and then I realized,
01:00:17.307 --> 01:00:19.227
wait, does pe, do people pay for Prisma?
01:00:19.287 --> 01:00:20.097
Who pays for Prisma?
01:00:20.097 --> 01:00:21.267
How did they raise so much money?
01:00:21.807 --> 01:00:22.407
Who pays for
01:00:22.422 --> 01:00:25.222
Dax: of like, that was like
my first tweet ever about them.
01:00:25.222 --> 01:00:26.962
I was like, the year is 2022.
01:00:26.962 --> 01:00:27.832
And your ORM has
01:00:27.832 --> 01:00:28.012
just
01:00:28.017 --> 01:00:29.332
raised $75 million.
01:00:29.332 --> 01:00:29.632
Yeah.
01:00:31.182 --> 01:00:31.402
Adam: Oh,
01:00:31.832 --> 01:00:35.067
Do you know anybody that's
paying, like their credit card is
01:00:35.397 --> 01:00:36.957
entered into the Prisma website.
01:00:37.152 --> 01:00:41.172
Dax: Well, yeah, because people that
are, that are using it and had all
01:00:41.177 --> 01:00:45.282
the, or the, like, the performance
issues and they're kind of stuck paying
01:00:45.302 --> 01:00:48.237
Adam: The, the issues they
caused, here's a solution.
01:00:48.597 --> 01:00:50.667
Dax: yeah, it's like a, it's like
a, until they figure out how to move
01:00:50.672 --> 01:00:53.397
off of it, like it's a easy solution.
01:00:53.787 --> 01:00:55.467
Uh, yeah.
01:00:55.467 --> 01:00:58.947
Then they have this like new real
time thing that like sends you real
01:00:58.947 --> 01:01:02.127
time updates from, changes in your
01:01:02.127 --> 01:01:02.937
database.
01:01:02.967 --> 01:01:06.117
Adam: there's a space, the
real time space is heating up.
01:01:06.687 --> 01:01:06.837
There's a
01:01:06.987 --> 01:01:07.707
Dax: don't know about that
01:01:07.707 --> 01:01:08.247
space.
01:01:08.427 --> 01:01:10.707
Adam: that a space that can
support multiple startups?
01:01:11.067 --> 01:01:15.987
Dax: I feel like people have been entering
that space for like my entire like career.
01:01:16.137 --> 01:01:20.217
I've just been seeing like real
time made easy forever, like ever.
01:01:20.812 --> 01:01:21.102
Adam: Yeah.
01:01:22.562 --> 01:01:22.782
Huh?
01:01:22.797 --> 01:01:23.997
Dax: and yeah, no one's really won it.
01:01:24.027 --> 01:01:26.697
So I guess there's still an opportunity,
01:01:26.727 --> 01:01:29.667
Adam: Is it, is it because, like,
is part of the problem, the inherent
01:01:29.667 --> 01:01:33.327
issue that like not everything needs
real time or There's very, is it
01:01:33.327 --> 01:01:37.257
just very few use cases, very few
apps that really need real time.
01:01:37.662 --> 01:01:40.302
Dax: I was talking to Sunil about
this because he's working on Party
01:01:40.307 --> 01:01:42.162
Kit and which is in the space.
01:01:42.522 --> 01:01:47.982
And my point to him was, I think
the problem with the marketing of
01:01:47.987 --> 01:01:54.312
all these solutions is they focus on
the most real time cool demos, which
01:01:54.312 --> 01:01:58.032
are like whiteboarding or like some
like crazy collaborative situation.
01:01:58.452 --> 01:01:58.932
Yeah.
01:01:59.112 --> 01:02:02.202
Which all like looks cool and like
shows that their product is powerful,
01:02:02.202 --> 01:02:06.192
but that just makes people think like,
oh, it's for one, I need to build one.
01:02:06.192 --> 01:02:07.542
Like those apps, those
01:02:07.647 --> 01:02:08.067
Adam: Yeah.
01:02:08.127 --> 01:02:11.427
As opposed to like thinking in terms of
the thing they're already working on, how
01:02:11.442 --> 01:02:11.892
Dax: Yeah.
01:02:12.012 --> 01:02:13.482
Which every app should
01:02:14.007 --> 01:02:14.217
Adam: Yeah.
01:02:14.222 --> 01:02:14.997
Could benefit.
01:02:15.222 --> 01:02:17.442
Dax: Yeah, if you have two tabs
open, you add stuff in one tab,
01:02:17.442 --> 01:02:20.082
the other tab should be updated
if someone else edits something.
01:02:20.082 --> 01:02:22.482
It's not like real time
collaborative stuff, but like
01:02:22.512 --> 01:02:23.772
things should get pushed to you.
01:02:23.772 --> 01:02:25.362
Like the internet should be pushed based.
01:02:25.947 --> 01:02:26.067
Adam: yeah.
01:02:26.067 --> 01:02:29.007
You shouldn't have to refresh
the page to get the latest.
01:02:29.187 --> 01:02:29.937
Dax: Yeah, exactly.
01:02:29.937 --> 01:02:34.257
So I think every app fundamentally needs,
should have this as a component, but
01:02:34.377 --> 01:02:34.767
Adam: yeah.
01:02:35.037 --> 01:02:37.107
Dax: it doesn't feel that
way with these solutions.
01:02:37.152 --> 01:02:40.392
Adam: With your local first stuff with
like Replicache and that architecture, are
01:02:40.392 --> 01:02:44.472
you doing, is there like a push component
to that where you're pushing changes if
01:02:44.612 --> 01:02:48.387
Dax: funny 'cause uh, it's,
it's, it's this exact thing.
01:02:48.417 --> 01:02:50.397
Nothing I build is collaborative.
01:02:50.757 --> 01:02:56.517
So my realtime architecture is just a
poke that comes over web socket that
01:02:56.517 --> 01:02:58.257
tells the front end to re fetch to
01:02:58.257 --> 01:02:58.737
resync.
01:02:58.747 --> 01:02:59.027
Adam: I see.
01:02:59.257 --> 01:02:59.547
Yeah.
01:02:59.702 --> 01:03:01.707
Dax: like no data comes
in over the web socket.
01:03:01.712 --> 01:03:03.177
There's no diffs, there's no patches.
01:03:03.182 --> 01:03:03.297
It's
01:03:03.297 --> 01:03:03.627
just
01:03:04.032 --> 01:03:04.782
Adam: you're stale.
01:03:04.947 --> 01:03:05.907
Dax: Yeah, like, do it, do it.
01:03:06.117 --> 01:03:06.357
Yeah.
01:03:06.357 --> 01:03:08.607
And it's like, you know, it's
not the most real time thing.
01:03:08.607 --> 01:03:11.247
It's gonna be maybe like a
second or two delayed, but
01:03:12.027 --> 01:03:13.497
it's perfect for what I build.
01:03:13.632 --> 01:03:17.922
Adam: Yeah, most apps don't need
like seeing the mouse cursor update
01:03:17.922 --> 01:03:19.392
in real time of somebody else.
01:03:20.247 --> 01:03:20.937
Dax: yeah, exactly.
01:03:20.942 --> 01:03:23.097
And that's usually what the
demos are, are focused around.
01:03:23.532 --> 01:03:27.522
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's why I
think the Replicache company like
01:03:27.942 --> 01:03:30.612
picked a very good set of constraints.
01:03:30.822 --> 01:03:36.522
Um, like even them, their like demo is
this, like, if you go to reflect.com.net,
01:03:36.552 --> 01:03:40.392
which is like their hosted solution,
it is that it is like this crazy 60
01:03:40.397 --> 01:03:42.582
frames per second realtime thing.
01:03:43.152 --> 01:03:43.662
Yeah.
01:03:43.752 --> 01:03:49.152
But Replicache itself, it's like not, it's
like the demo, there is a boring demo.
01:03:49.152 --> 01:03:52.332
It's of like, like a, like
a ticket tracker, like a
01:03:52.332 --> 01:03:54.402
linear type thing where Yeah.
01:03:54.402 --> 01:03:57.402
Like, you know, stuff updates,
someone changes the status.
01:03:57.402 --> 01:03:58.332
You see the status change.
01:03:58.332 --> 01:04:00.252
You're not seeing their
cursor or any of that.
01:04:00.812 --> 01:04:02.912
And there's so many
solutions in, in that space.
01:04:02.917 --> 01:04:05.942
Like live blocks was such like
when they were like going through
01:04:05.942 --> 01:04:08.462
YC and first launching, like
they were everywhere for a while.
01:04:08.462 --> 01:04:11.582
I don't, I don't know what, I
don't know what they're up to.
01:04:11.582 --> 01:04:13.112
I'm sure they're doing fine, but
01:04:13.607 --> 01:04:15.467
Adam: All those companies
have the coolest landing pages
01:04:15.572 --> 01:04:15.992
Dax: I know
01:04:16.247 --> 01:04:18.737
Adam: do something that you're not
used to seeing in a landing page.
01:04:18.737 --> 01:04:18.977
Yeah.
01:04:18.977 --> 01:04:20.297
It's like interactive in some way.
01:04:20.552 --> 01:04:20.732
Dax: Yeah.
01:04:20.732 --> 01:04:22.742
Like Refle is a, like a, like a puzzle.
01:04:22.742 --> 01:04:26.072
There's like a puzzle that spells out
the future is real time or something.
01:04:26.072 --> 01:04:27.782
And you do the puzzle with everyone there.
01:04:27.842 --> 01:04:30.182
Um, yeah.
01:04:30.197 --> 01:04:30.767
Adam: interesting.
01:04:30.977 --> 01:04:35.387
It's like that Reddit, there is
some like itch that, that or Yeah.
01:04:35.387 --> 01:04:39.407
Itch that, that scratches like the
Reddit, uh, what was that thing?
01:04:39.437 --> 01:04:42.047
The where everybody's
painting the picture together.
01:04:43.652 --> 01:04:44.493
Dax: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:04:44.552 --> 01:04:46.892
Uh, I forgot what it was called.
01:04:47.357 --> 01:04:48.047
Adam: Yeah.
01:04:48.107 --> 01:04:49.697
It was, oh, pi uh, pixels.
01:04:49.907 --> 01:04:50.087
Is that
01:04:50.132 --> 01:04:50.972
Dax: Is that what it's, I don't
01:04:50.972 --> 01:04:51.332
remember
01:04:51.437 --> 01:04:56.867
Adam: like the one big canvas and like
everyone was, that was amazing actually.
01:04:56.897 --> 01:05:02.597
That it, that kind of stuff that really
makes me like, uh, like proud of humanity.
01:05:03.167 --> 01:05:04.637
Like, look what we can do.
01:05:04.697 --> 01:05:07.847
Like to see people paint like
corners of that thing in a
01:05:07.847 --> 01:05:09.887
certain way sounds so hard to me.
01:05:10.325 --> 01:05:10.985
Dax: But people do it.
01:05:11.400 --> 01:05:15.360
Going back to this real time thing, the
other thing that I've like been acutely
01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:20.753
understanding is, I think everyone in the
dev tool space has vastly underestimated
01:05:20.753 --> 01:05:24.023
how big you need to be to survive.
01:05:24.573 --> 01:05:27.063
Like these days whenever I see a
dev tool, I'm just like, too small,
01:05:27.123 --> 01:05:28.653
too small, too small, too small.
01:05:28.653 --> 01:05:32.973
It's just like you need to be so
big before you can make enough
01:05:32.973 --> 01:05:34.803
money to like sustain yourself.
01:05:35.463 --> 01:05:40.803
Um, and a lot of these tools are
like, they're useful and they're good,
01:05:40.803 --> 01:05:44.103
but is every company in the world
gonna drop that end to their stack?
01:05:44.108 --> 01:05:44.523
No.
01:05:45.063 --> 01:05:47.253
And I literally think the only
things are that can survive are
01:05:47.253 --> 01:05:51.543
things that like, theoretically,
every company could drop into their
01:05:52.743 --> 01:05:55.143
Adam: Somebody brought this
up, maybe you brought it up.
01:05:55.143 --> 01:05:58.593
I remember seeing people on Twitter
like call out examples of dev
01:05:58.598 --> 01:05:59.673
tool companies that have made it.
01:05:59.733 --> 01:06:01.383
It was definitely in
response to a tweet of yours.
01:06:01.773 --> 01:06:04.473
Uh, and it was like people
brought up the mega companies.
01:06:04.473 --> 01:06:07.623
Like Microsoft is a great example
of like, they're basically just a
01:06:07.623 --> 01:06:09.963
giant dev tools company now, right?
01:06:09.963 --> 01:06:12.303
I don't know actually I don't
know anything about the revenue.
01:06:12.333 --> 01:06:12.843
They probably still have
01:06:12.843 --> 01:06:14.508
Dax: I mean, dev dev is a huge part of it.
01:06:14.508 --> 01:06:14.928
Yeah.
01:06:15.003 --> 01:06:15.813
Adam: it's a huge part of it, right?
01:06:15.843 --> 01:06:18.410
'cause like they do these huge
acquisitions, GitHub, yeah.
01:06:18.415 --> 01:06:22.550
So they've got this like VS code,
TypeScript, all these things
01:06:22.550 --> 01:06:26.240
that are so prevalent in the dev
community, but they're like this
01:06:26.270 --> 01:06:28.310
giant mega corp with a ton of history.
01:06:28.460 --> 01:06:31.160
What are some like startups
that have made it in the
01:06:31.175 --> 01:06:33.635
Dax: So the, the question I
asked was like, what dev tool
01:06:33.635 --> 01:06:34.505
companies are doing well?
01:06:34.505 --> 01:06:35.375
I should have been more clear.
01:06:35.375 --> 01:06:38.075
I meant like startups that were like
founded in the last couple years.
01:06:38.135 --> 01:06:40.685
Uh, so some, some people said stuff
like Microsoft, but that's not
01:06:40.690 --> 01:06:41.705
exactly what I was looking for.
01:06:42.155 --> 01:06:45.785
Most answers were just companies
that people liked and I was
01:06:45.785 --> 01:06:47.585
like, they're not doing well.
01:06:47.900 --> 01:06:49.010
Adam: They haven't made it yet.
01:06:49.025 --> 01:06:49.475
Dax: Yeah,
01:06:49.535 --> 01:06:53.315
Like I don't, I I, there's
very few responses.
01:06:53.555 --> 01:06:57.665
I think, uh, I feel like Supabase
might be doing decently well.
01:06:57.665 --> 01:07:01.355
The only reason I say that is because,
they're in such an interesting situation.
01:07:01.355 --> 01:07:05.825
So they built a product
that is theoretically niche.
01:07:05.855 --> 01:07:09.875
It's like people that want to use,
that want like a full backend as a
01:07:09.875 --> 01:07:13.715
service built on top of Postgres, kind
of like flesh out that architecture
01:07:13.715 --> 01:07:16.475
as much as, as you can, and make
the best possible experience of
01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:18.845
that, which is like a narrow space.
01:07:19.385 --> 01:07:24.455
But they accidentally also built
the best Postgres hosting service.
01:07:24.965 --> 01:07:27.905
So a lot of people just use them
as like a generic Postgres host and
01:07:27.905 --> 01:07:28.085
like.
01:07:28.565 --> 01:07:32.675
And those other tools are like nice for
like debugging and things and especially,
01:07:32.885 --> 01:07:37.235
and there's been like new entrance into
this space, like Neon, uh, and like Nile
01:07:37.235 --> 01:07:38.255
and there's been like a bunch of them.
01:07:38.285 --> 01:07:42.828
And Supabase is still like a good,
like the best default Postgres host.
01:07:43.458 --> 01:07:46.548
So you like never you, I like
never see a company where they like
01:07:46.548 --> 01:07:49.788
focus narrow and accidentally get a
bigger market and they kind of did.
01:07:50.418 --> 01:07:53.088
Um, I dunno if it's, I dunno if they're
doing well enough to say that okay,
01:07:53.088 --> 01:07:56.808
they're gonna be around for a long
time, but literally outside of that,
01:07:56.898 --> 01:07:57.378
Adam: the path.
01:07:57.528 --> 01:08:00.648
What about like, HashiCorp,
what about does that fit your
01:08:00.708 --> 01:08:04.098
Dax: So HashiCorp was, is I would
say like they are a little bit
01:08:04.103 --> 01:08:05.538
like the previous generation.
01:08:05.598 --> 01:08:05.898
Like,
01:08:06.018 --> 01:08:06.798
Adam: Okay, so not
01:08:06.828 --> 01:08:10.518
Dax: they Yeah, but even them,
like they're not doing super well.
01:08:11.028 --> 01:08:11.598
Adam: Oh really?
01:08:11.778 --> 01:08:13.638
Dax: Like they're a public
company and they're past Yeah.
01:08:13.643 --> 01:08:14.298
They're past the point
01:08:14.298 --> 01:08:15.738
of like making it for the founder.
01:08:15.903 --> 01:08:16.968
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:16.998 --> 01:08:17.598
So definitely.
01:08:17.988 --> 01:08:18.378
Yeah.
01:08:18.534 --> 01:08:23.088
David, the Sentry CEO actually
quantified it in a good way.
01:08:23.088 --> 01:08:23.958
They were like, he was like.
01:08:24.603 --> 01:08:27.153
You should have said, who can
forecast a hundred million dollars
01:08:27.153 --> 01:08:29.193
in revenue in the next five years?
01:08:29.883 --> 01:08:30.333
Adam: Okay.
01:08:30.453 --> 01:08:32.763
Dax: And I'm like, yeah, that's
actually exactly what I was looking for.
01:08:33.303 --> 01:08:37.053
And I don't, I, I don't know if anything,
anything that I use, anything that I,
01:08:37.268 --> 01:08:37.558
Adam: Yeah.
01:08:38.643 --> 01:08:39.093
Dax: I don't know.
01:08:39.273 --> 01:08:42.933
It's like HashiCorp did well
because some of their tools were
01:08:42.938 --> 01:08:45.693
literally like anyone in the world.
01:08:45.693 --> 01:08:48.273
Any code base in the world could
use it, whether they did it or not.
01:08:48.543 --> 01:08:53.343
Terraform, anything can drop into anywhere
and on, on all the other products as well.
01:08:54.093 --> 01:08:56.433
Like who's building at that level.
01:08:57.123 --> 01:08:57.333
Adam: Yeah.
01:08:57.333 --> 01:09:01.773
It, there was such a peak at the
peak interest rate phenomenon period
01:09:01.778 --> 01:09:04.953
here where the, the most money was
slushing around where there's just
01:09:04.953 --> 01:09:09.663
so much of the space, like so much of
the venture dollars flowing into dev
01:09:09.663 --> 01:09:15.063
tools and it is interesting how few of
those dollars will probably pan out.
01:09:15.813 --> 01:09:16.323
Dax: Yeah.
01:09:16.503 --> 01:09:18.833
You really have to be like, huge.
01:09:19.073 --> 01:09:22.733
So I think most companies
ambition was, wasn't high enough.
01:09:22.733 --> 01:09:23.063
Adam: enough.
01:09:23.153 --> 01:09:23.483
Yeah.
01:09:23.618 --> 01:09:24.098
Dax: Yeah,
01:09:24.653 --> 01:09:26.393
Adam: Gotta shoot for the stars so
01:09:26.468 --> 01:09:27.278
Dax: Yeah, exactly.
01:09:27.788 --> 01:09:28.358
Yeah, exactly.
01:09:28.358 --> 01:09:29.618
I mean, but actually, like that's,
01:09:30.278 --> 01:09:31.478
you really have to overshoot.
01:09:32.028 --> 01:09:33.258
Adam: I, that actually made sense.
01:09:33.258 --> 01:09:34.398
I'm gonna tweet it if it did.
01:09:34.638 --> 01:09:37.128
Did that what I just said
actually applied to a situation.
01:09:37.728 --> 01:09:38.148
Hang on.
01:09:38.328 --> 01:09:39.408
What was, what did I say?
01:09:40.008 --> 01:09:40.608
Shoot for
01:09:40.713 --> 01:09:44.133
Dax: you just, you, you just,
you just, you just said a quote.
01:09:44.628 --> 01:09:45.258
Adam: Oh, okay.
01:09:45.438 --> 01:09:46.188
I can't tweet that then.
01:09:46.953 --> 01:09:48.843
Dax: It's not like you
didn't invent that, did you?
01:09:48.903 --> 01:09:50.373
I mean, you can tweet it as a
01:09:50.478 --> 01:09:50.688
Adam: not
01:09:50.733 --> 01:09:52.953
Dax: but I'm like, I feel like
your excitement level isn't
01:09:52.953 --> 01:09:53.613
matching.
01:09:53.838 --> 01:09:54.618
Adam: anonymous.
01:09:54.798 --> 01:09:56.358
I just don't have a lot of thoughts, Dax.
01:09:56.358 --> 01:09:56.658
Okay.
01:09:56.658 --> 01:10:00.198
When I, when I have a thought,
I gotta start putting 'em down.
01:10:02.223 --> 01:10:05.703
Dax: Maybe you should just start
complaining a lot on Twitter.
01:10:06.408 --> 01:10:06.888
Adam: I do.
01:10:06.888 --> 01:10:08.028
I did that a lot.
01:10:08.238 --> 01:10:09.348
I probably still do that a lot.
01:10:09.408 --> 01:10:11.928
That's kind of the only thing I've ever
done on Twitter is just complaining.
01:10:13.278 --> 01:10:14.208
Uh,
01:10:14.223 --> 01:10:15.018
Dax: like, oh, I can't sleep.
01:10:15.978 --> 01:10:16.308
Adam: no.
01:10:16.308 --> 01:10:16.488
Yeah.
01:10:16.493 --> 01:10:17.268
Yeah, exactly.
01:10:17.478 --> 01:10:19.848
And I'm, I'm gonna switch into teaching.
01:10:20.058 --> 01:10:20.718
That's gonna be my
01:10:20.823 --> 01:10:21.213
Dax: Oh yeah.
01:10:21.243 --> 01:10:21.933
I'm excited for that.
01:10:21.933 --> 01:10:22.293
I'm excited.
01:10:22.413 --> 01:10:22.533
Do
01:10:22.608 --> 01:10:23.148
Adam: I'm excited
01:10:23.163 --> 01:10:24.093
Dax: sense of when you're gonna
01:10:24.108 --> 01:10:24.798
Adam: for being on the internet.
01:10:24.933 --> 01:10:26.223
Dax: start to get that going?
01:10:26.283 --> 01:10:26.463
Like
01:10:26.568 --> 01:10:27.078
Adam: I mean, I'm
01:10:27.213 --> 01:10:27.663
Dax: can see
01:10:28.083 --> 01:10:33.333
Adam: I am going, uh, there'll be
a free, free thing first coming.
01:10:33.513 --> 01:10:36.903
It's basically just like all the
stuff people need to know before
01:10:36.903 --> 01:10:39.333
I can really get into the meat
of what I'm trying to teach.
01:10:39.693 --> 01:10:42.573
And it's stuff that people who are just
getting started shouldn't have to pay for.
01:10:42.573 --> 01:10:46.073
It's just like fundamental,
getting started on AWS.
01:10:46.153 --> 01:10:49.233
A lay of the land, sort of a lot of theory
around the different services that you
01:10:49.233 --> 01:10:52.743
may not even really have to dive that
deep in when you start dealing with SST.
01:10:52.743 --> 01:10:55.953
Like it's a lot of, it's abstracted
but having that foundational
01:10:55.953 --> 01:10:57.543
understanding can be really helpful.
01:10:57.543 --> 01:11:01.593
It's like going to college and learning
about, like I know stuff about assembly.
01:11:01.833 --> 01:11:04.353
I don't write assembly,
but like I know stuff.
01:11:04.923 --> 01:11:10.353
So that's basically like a free kind of
half practical, half very theoretical
01:11:10.563 --> 01:11:13.233
grounding in AWS for web developers.
01:11:13.593 --> 01:11:17.283
Uh, I'd say in the next couple
months that's probably on track.
01:11:17.583 --> 01:11:21.363
And then, uh, I think the better part
of this year it's gonna be working
01:11:21.363 --> 01:11:26.643
on the broader effort of teaching
this view of the world that I see.
01:11:27.183 --> 01:11:27.663
Dax: Nice.
01:11:27.753 --> 01:11:32.673
Yeah, it's, uh, it's funny 'cause uh,
trash yesterday was in hell trying to
01:11:32.678 --> 01:11:37.233
sign up for AWS because he's trying
to set up, uh, the organizations and
01:11:37.233 --> 01:11:39.003
the I Am identity center and all that.
01:11:39.573 --> 01:11:41.643
Uh, he didn't do that bad.
01:11:41.673 --> 01:11:44.493
He like almost got it right, but,
01:11:45.048 --> 01:11:46.878
Adam: Did he reach out to
you on Discord or something?
01:11:46.878 --> 01:11:48.198
Or was this, you saw it on Twitter
01:11:48.363 --> 01:11:51.033
Dax: well, he, he, he was like,
yeah, he did post on Discord,
01:11:51.033 --> 01:11:51.963
like, I am as confusing.
01:11:51.963 --> 01:11:53.613
And I was like, oh, talk to me baby.
01:11:54.288 --> 01:11:54.468
Adam: Yeah,
01:11:56.073 --> 01:12:01.473
Dax: and like it, he got
close but not enough so that
01:12:01.473 --> 01:12:02.463
he didn't have to start over.
01:12:03.033 --> 01:12:06.063
And I sent him my, that, that, that
document I wrote about signing up
01:12:06.063 --> 01:12:07.773
for organizations and, and all that.
01:12:07.773 --> 01:12:08.643
And then it's just like.
01:12:09.918 --> 01:12:12.108
Like why I, it, it like
actually bummed me out.
01:12:12.138 --> 01:12:16.218
'cause I'm like, here's someone that
like wants to use AWS and we rely
01:12:16.218 --> 01:12:17.748
on people that are trying to use AWS
01:12:18.468 --> 01:12:21.678
and this was his first experience and
he like, almost, he didn't have the
01:12:21.678 --> 01:12:25.368
option of actually churning, but like, he
could've just like given up at some point.
01:12:25.373 --> 01:12:25.728
Right.
01:12:26.328 --> 01:12:28.008
Uh, yeah.
01:12:28.008 --> 01:12:31.758
And it's like, damn, like this is what
we're like, the only people we ever
01:12:31.758 --> 01:12:33.918
see are people that make it past that
01:12:33.918 --> 01:12:34.428
funnel.
01:12:35.268 --> 01:12:35.658
Yeah.
01:12:36.348 --> 01:12:36.498
Adam: Yeah.
01:12:36.498 --> 01:12:38.028
I hope, I hope what I'm doing will help
01:12:38.418 --> 01:12:38.598
Dax: Yeah.
01:12:38.598 --> 01:12:39.168
Exactly.
01:12:39.918 --> 01:12:40.788
Adam: uh, efforts.
01:12:41.268 --> 01:12:41.628
Dax: Yeah.
01:12:41.958 --> 01:12:44.418
Just signing up for AWS super hard, the
01:12:44.418 --> 01:12:44.778
thought,
01:12:45.048 --> 01:12:45.528
Adam: first step.
01:12:45.528 --> 01:12:45.648
Yeah.
01:12:47.418 --> 01:12:48.258
Uh, all right.
01:12:48.258 --> 01:12:50.358
This, this podcast has been
like an hour and a half long.
01:12:50.598 --> 01:12:51.018
This is new.
01:12:51.018 --> 01:12:52.128
This, we've gone
01:12:52.158 --> 01:12:55.638
Dax: well, the first 20 minutes
were just debugging, but Yeah.
01:12:55.698 --> 01:12:56.448
It's a long one.
01:12:56.838 --> 01:12:57.138
Adam: Twitch.
01:12:57.138 --> 01:12:57.768
It is a long one.
01:12:57.798 --> 01:12:58.278
It's okay.
01:12:58.608 --> 01:13:00.048
There's no, there's no rules here.
01:13:00.798 --> 01:13:02.208
People can just say they
don't wanna listen anymore.
01:13:02.358 --> 01:13:03.918
I actually like recording on Thursday.
01:13:03.948 --> 01:13:07.488
It feels like it's gonna come out on
Monday, which is like a little fresher.
01:13:07.908 --> 01:13:12.348
We talked about stuff, you know,
that maybe like was topical.
01:13:13.368 --> 01:13:13.668
I don't know.
01:13:14.433 --> 01:13:14.763
Dax: Yeah.
01:13:14.763 --> 01:13:18.453
I guess the thing is it gives us stuff
to reflect on from the past couple days.
01:13:18.798 --> 01:13:19.398
Adam: Yeah.
01:13:19.878 --> 01:13:23.958
If it's not too little time for Chris
to edit this mess of a, of a podcast.
01:13:24.288 --> 01:13:24.618
Okay.
01:13:24.648 --> 01:13:25.488
Well this has been good.
01:13:25.488 --> 01:13:27.528
I feel like we do need like
a sign off or something.
01:13:27.528 --> 01:13:31.878
So it's not just like me having
to use the restroom every time.
01:13:32.178 --> 01:13:33.108
Dax: No, that's perfect.
01:13:33.168 --> 01:13:33.558
It's great.
01:13:33.558 --> 01:13:34.098
Do you have to use the
01:13:34.098 --> 01:13:34.458
bathroom?
01:13:34.968 --> 01:13:36.468
Adam: is that, no, I
actually don't have to pee.
01:13:36.618 --> 01:13:36.798
Have I
01:13:36.803 --> 01:13:37.278
not drank
01:13:37.488 --> 01:13:37.788
Dax: the hell?
01:13:38.568 --> 01:13:39.138
No, this is good.
01:13:39.138 --> 01:13:40.368
Now you're, now you're being normal.
01:13:41.118 --> 01:13:41.928
Adam: I'm being normal.
01:13:41.928 --> 01:13:43.068
Maybe I'll sleep good tonight.
01:13:43.908 --> 01:13:44.298
Who knows?
01:13:44.958 --> 01:13:45.408
We'll see.
01:13:45.528 --> 01:13:45.948
We'll see.
01:13:45.948 --> 01:13:47.148
Okay, I guess.
01:13:47.148 --> 01:13:47.568
Goodbye.
01:13:48.408 --> 01:13:48.738
Dax: All right.
01:13:49.368 --> 01:13:49.758
But yeah.
01:13:50.208 --> 01:13:50.598
Adam: friend.
01:13:50.628 --> 01:13:52.128
Dax, I, this is so awkward.
01:13:52.128 --> 01:13:52.493
I dunno.
01:13:52.903 --> 01:13:53.413
Dunno what to
01:13:53.478 --> 01:13:55.578
Dax: we just, we just go
fuck off when we leave.
01:13:55.963 --> 01:13:56.253
Adam: Okay.
01:13:56.478 --> 01:13:57.288
Dax: All right, Adam, fuck
01:13:57.318 --> 01:13:58.278
Adam: that'll be a little aggressive.
01:13:58.278 --> 01:13:58.608
Yeah.
01:13:59.088 --> 01:14:00.678
Uh, I'm gonna stop the recording.
01:14:01.548 --> 01:14:02.028
How about that?
01:14:02.418 --> 01:14:03.288
That's not a good ending.
01:14:03.348 --> 01:14:03.588
No.
01:14:03.828 --> 01:14:04.008
All right.
01:14:04.008 --> 01:14:04.218
See it.
01:14:04.218 --> 01:14:07.938
X You gotta say buyback.
01:14:08.058 --> 01:14:08.808
Just please do that.
01:14:09.408 --> 01:14:09.768
Dax: Bye.
01:14:10.638 --> 01:14:10.908
Adam: There we
01:14:11.028 --> 01:14:11.503
Dax: Bye, Adam.