WEBVTT
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00:00:01.199Hello everyone.
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00:00:04.559Got a good one for you today.
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00:00:06.480Hi God.
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00:00:07.519I need that.
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00:00:10.080How are you doing?
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00:00:12.800Doing really well.
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00:00:18.960All right.
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00:00:20.079Look at what time is that.
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00:00:22.079We've got a little bit longer to go here.
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00:00:25.760People will keep coming in as we're after we start.
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00:00:28.320And this will how long will this last on?
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00:00:29.519An hour.
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00:00:33.600Okay, because I do actually have another meeting at four, exactly.
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00:00:36.560Yeah.
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00:00:39.520Thank you.
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00:00:44.240We're gonna go ahead and get started.
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00:00:45.679Welcome everyone.
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00:00:53.840And today we have a special guest, Mark Dermont, and he is from the Touching Hearts franchise system.
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00:00:55.920He has owned his own.
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00:00:57.119When did you start, Mark?
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00:00:58.799I don't even have a start date for you.
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00:00:59.520When did you start?
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00:01:01.4392007 is our start date.
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00:01:03.6792007, so a long time.
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00:01:08.239He is a seasoned, very successful owner of Touching Hearts.
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00:01:14.239We're gonna have a candid discussion with him today about how to run a highly successful home care agency.
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00:01:26.319He said we're gonna pull back the curtain and learn a little bit about how he's grown his agency, some of the hard stuff, some of the things maybe were easier, when to hire staff, all of the things.
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00:01:29.120So we're so glad you're here today with us, Mark.
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00:01:30.719We really appreciate you being here.
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00:01:36.560Can you tell us a little bit about your background and what brought you into this industry to begin with?
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00:01:40.319Don, I actually began my career as a lawyer.
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00:01:51.599For about 10 years, I practiced labor and employment law and migrated into in-house, being in-house counsel, and then migrated into a corporate HR position.
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00:01:56.480I was director of HR at Converse, the sneaker company.
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00:02:02.959And then went into a family business with two other brothers and my dad, a manufacturing business.
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00:02:11.360And finally in 2007, I joined Touching Hearts with my brother Tom, and we are still partners today.
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00:02:12.479Wow.
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00:02:15.680So you have that entrepreneurial spirit, right?
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00:02:16.479It sounds like.
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00:02:53.520And that was the first real personal experience I had with seeing home care.
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00:02:58.639My brother had actually begun the business, and I had joined him a little bit after that.
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00:03:01.680And I was really motivated by that experience.
00:03:01.840 -->
00:03:12.960I witnessed some home care folks coming into her home being amazing, and other home carers not so my dad was an amazing caregiver.
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00:03:22.000So it was really that experience that sort of galvanized my view of really wanting to provide excellence with the care that we do, the touching hearts.
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00:03:23.199Oh, that's great.
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00:03:35.919Today we're gonna talk about the early days, how you build momentum, the marketing and sales piece of it, and any lessons and advice you would have for the people here today.
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00:03:40.159We have probably a lot of brand new agency owners with us today.
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00:03:45.039There's probably some seasoned owners that are stuck at a level and they can't seem to.
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00:03:50.400And Mark, you've probably experienced that too and learned how to break through to the next level.
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00:03:52.080So we're all really excited.
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00:03:57.199And you're in New York, if that helps anybody there with his background and where he's coming from.
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00:03:59.120So we're gonna go ahead and get started.
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00:04:00.879So every agency has a story.
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00:04:03.039You've told us a little bit about that.
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00:04:13.039So, what were your biggest challenges in the early days, would you say, from cash flow all the way to caregiver recruiting, building trustbook referral services?
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00:04:15.120What were some of those early challenges?
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00:04:16.959You certainly named a few, Don.
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00:04:21.680And I would add to that that my brother and I were figuring out our roles.
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00:04:32.000And for folks who are beginning this business with other people, really finding roles and your own strengths and your own sandbox in that business is really important.
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00:04:35.920So it took my brother Tom and I a little bit to figure that out.
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00:04:41.759Big challenges were that Tom and I had a lot of good business experience.
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00:04:46.319He particularly in sales and mine more in law and operations.
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00:04:48.319But we did not have experience.
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00:04:51.600We were not knowledgeable in caring for older adults.
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00:04:55.920We wanted to be, and it took some time at the beginning for us to learn that piece.
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00:05:10.639And we did that through our through touching hearts and Renee Peterson, who's the founder, but also by hiring the right people early on and balancing our business experience with people who really understood how to care for older adults.
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00:05:26.720So that was a challenge for us just to learn more about that and about the community of care, the nursing homes, the geriatric care managers, and who are these folks who we have to really develop relationships with, starting from scratch.
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00:05:29.600And that took a lot of a lot of time and effort.
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00:05:35.439We did we did hire some people to help us with administration early on.
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00:05:40.800And it was an expense that probably delayed our turning to profitability.
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00:05:50.240But in the long run, I think it was the right decision because I think it set the foundation for growth, even though it delayed the paycheck, but set the right foundation.
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00:06:01.279I do get that question because I talk to a lot of new agency owners and they're like, I'm trying to recruit and I'm trying to be out in the field, and I also am signing the clients and I'm scheduled.
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00:06:02.480They're trying to do all of it.
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00:06:04.720And they're like, when do I hire someone?
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00:06:08.800And so to that person, Mark, I know you you hired ahead of time.
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00:06:16.639So but what would be the first role you think you would have hired had you done it the other way, where you wore all the hats in the beginning?
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00:06:20.639What roles do you think are important to hire early on or role?
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00:06:29.040Maybe it's just one that might be a good role to hire as the steps are going, as the time is moving on, and you're starting to get clients.
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00:06:30.800What would that first role be?
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00:06:36.720Do you think that you would I'm only half kidding in saying whatever role it would take to get me off on call?
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00:06:40.399Oh, do I hear that in my bones?
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00:06:40.720Yeah.
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00:06:47.439That was that's that was painful working hard all day long and then having the phone at night and on weekends.
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00:06:49.759So I'm only half kidding when I say that.
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00:06:54.560I do think it depends on an owner's strengths and weaknesses and desires.
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00:06:58.560You know, it there's some new owners who you really don't have a choice.
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00:07:00.720You just have to do everything at the beginning.
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00:07:04.079There's not enough money to do anything otherwise.
00:07:04.319 -->
00:07:11.120And for owners who have a little bit more capital, they can be a little bit more proactive in terms of hiring.
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00:07:14.319And so I do think it depends on what you want to do.
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00:07:21.600I do advocate the owner being involved in the sales and marketing efforts in the community from the very beginning.
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00:07:32.800I don't think you ever want to remove yourself, particularly at that stage, from getting to know the right people in the community, even if you do want to hire somebody else to do the sales and marketing.
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00:07:38.079But I think at the beginning, you know, for the most part, we hired two folks.
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00:07:43.839We hired somebody who was a care who could be a care manager, and we hired a person who could do scheduling and admin.
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00:07:48.000And my brother and I really focused on developing the relationships in the community.
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00:07:48.800That's good.
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00:07:51.120And if that's some your strength, right?
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00:07:55.120And I do think the owners that should have some something to do with the community.
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00:07:58.879Go to some of the networking meetings, know the people, and get really involved in that.
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00:08:03.680Even if they're not going to be the face of their company later on, I think you're, I agree with you.
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00:08:05.759They do need to be out there and meet everyone.
00:08:05.920 -->
00:08:07.519So, how did you land your first client?
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00:08:11.360Do you remember the first client and what that looked like?
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00:08:17.600Yeah, I'm I'm honestly don't remember the first client as much as I do the first really good referral source we had.
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00:08:21.759And it was a geriatric care manager in in our area.
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00:08:32.000And we really got some good quality referrals pretty early on because we formed that relationship and relationships with other care managers early on.
00:08:32.240 -->
00:08:54.399I also remember that we did a pretty good job of penetrating some home health providers in our area, not so much as an organization, but meeting individual nurses and social workers because you know their volume is such that if you can meet and form a good relationship with one or two of them in each organization, it's really highly beneficial.
00:08:54.559 -->
00:08:55.919So we did well with that.
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00:09:01.600And there was a nonprofit organization in our area in here in Rochester, New York, called LifeSpan.
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00:09:08.240And uh great organization, and they really ended up giving us a lot of referrals early on.
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00:09:09.519Okay, that's great.
00:09:09.600 -->
00:09:17.120And what do you wish you had known if you were to go back and talk to Mark in 2000, way back then, 2008?
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00:09:22.399What do you wish you had known starting the agency that you might tell somebody new?
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00:09:27.039I could summer summarize that in one word, and that would be focus.
00:09:27.279 -->
00:09:32.960At the beginning, we were all over the place looking for leads wherever in the grocery store.
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00:09:34.240We could find them.
00:09:34.399 -->
00:09:42.159And you might run into leads at the grocery store, but when you only have so much time, you're trying to be the chief cook and bottle washer.
00:09:42.399 -->
00:09:51.519I really think focusing on the really the well-known potential referral sources that can really generate good quality leads would be important.
00:09:51.679 -->
00:10:03.440We spent some time and money on things like direct-to-consumer advertising and too much time at senior centers going trying to directly appeal to older adults.
00:10:03.600 -->
00:10:07.840And nothing wrong with those things, but we really have more important bases to cover.
00:10:07.919 -->
00:10:11.440So focus in the sales and marketing area is, I think, really important.
00:10:11.919 -->
00:10:13.200Yeah, I would agree with that.
00:10:13.360 -->
00:10:19.440So building the business, moving from survival mode to sustainable growth requires intentional decisions.
00:10:19.679 -->
00:10:21.759And so, how did you navigate that?
00:10:21.919 -->
00:10:25.600Where did you start to feel like the agency had a pulse of its own?
00:10:25.759 -->
00:10:27.200And what led you to that?
00:10:27.519 -->
00:10:35.360And then the consistent growth and the game changer and first office hires, you hired early on, but where did you feel in hours?
00:10:35.440 -->
00:10:41.440Maybe we got to this many hours, and I just felt more solid and stable and like this is gonna work.
00:10:41.600 -->
00:10:43.360It has a pulse of its own.
00:10:43.759 -->
00:10:46.960Yeah, I would say all of those things were considered.
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00:11:00.799I do remember very clearly thinking between year three and four, probably closer to the beginning of year three, that all of the efforts we had made in the community to relationship sales, to meet people, that was starting to pay off.
00:11:00.960 -->
00:11:10.559And we would hear of people asking us to provide services who didn't really know exactly where they heard about us, but they heard about us.
00:11:10.720 -->
00:11:17.360And that was a strong indication to me that all of the groundwork we had laid with sales and marketing was paying off.
00:11:17.600 -->
00:11:31.759I think from the perspective of starting to hire additional people, that we did want to, after our original investment, get to the point where we were cash flow positive before we started to add to staff because after all, I did need a salary.
00:11:33.840 -->
00:11:35.679Younger kids and that sort of thing.
00:11:36.000 -->
00:11:42.480So I think once that started to happen and we feathered in adding staff, and some of those were part-time.
00:11:42.720 -->
00:11:49.679And it wasn't for the other thing, Don, I would say that I would do differently is I would have hired a salesperson sooner.
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00:11:53.679We didn't do that until we were probably in year six, maybe year six.
00:11:53.919 -->
00:11:54.320Oh, wow.
00:11:54.559 -->
00:11:54.799Okay.
00:11:55.039 -->
00:11:56.080And that was a mistake.
00:11:56.240 -->
00:12:05.440That was a mistake because we we were doing, I think, a pretty good job of it ourselves as owners, but I think I'm not a professional salesperson.
00:12:05.759 -->
00:12:07.120I'm not trained that way.
00:12:07.360 -->
00:12:12.879I can do it, but I would have done that sooner, especially if I could have hired somebody like Annette sooner than this.
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00:12:14.399Yes, she's brilliant.
00:12:14.559 -->
00:12:15.679I'm sure she was.
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00:12:19.120I'm I can just imagine what she did out there in the field.
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00:12:20.159I'm sure of that.
00:12:20.399 -->
00:12:22.639What would you say about hiring a marketer?
00:12:22.799 -->
00:12:25.919What do you look for in that person when you hire them?
00:12:26.000 -->
00:12:27.440What are the characteristics?
00:12:27.679 -->
00:12:28.799Are they driven?
00:12:29.120 -->
00:12:32.879What is it that you're because you've hired a lot of marketers at this point.
00:12:33.120 -->
00:12:35.279And I get that question a lot myself.
00:12:35.440 -->
00:12:36.639How do you know it's the right person?
00:12:36.720 -->
00:12:40.080Or I've wasted thousands of dollars hiring the wrong person.
00:12:40.240 -->
00:12:41.759I just am not going to have a salesperson.
00:12:42.159 -->
00:12:46.799That's where they get to that point where they're just not going to have one because it's not, it's too hard.
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00:12:47.360Yeah.
00:12:47.519 -->
00:12:56.799And there I, boy, if I knew the secret sauce to hiring salespeople and be very happy because I certainly have hired some people who didn't work out.
00:12:57.039 -->
00:13:06.799I would say what's evolved for me is the focus on trying to hire people who I think have a sales mentality as opposed to a marketing mentality.
00:13:07.120 -->
00:13:15.440And someone who sees themselves as both when the sort of sales part of a hunter as well as a farmer.
00:13:15.679 -->
00:13:19.440Whereas I think I've hired probably too many people who are farmers.
00:13:19.600 -->
00:13:23.440There are community relations versus sales.
00:13:23.519 -->
00:13:25.440And I think that's an important distinction.
00:13:25.759 -->
00:13:38.639Sales being someone who follows more of the traditional sales protocols, asking for the sale, repeated focus on certain targets instead of generally networking and forming general friendships.
00:13:39.120 -->
00:13:40.559There's a real difference.
00:13:40.879 -->
00:13:50.559And I think in our industry, there's a lot of people who can do community relations very well, but who may not be particularly good at really driving sales growth.
00:13:50.879 -->
00:13:51.600I would agree.
00:13:51.679 -->
00:13:54.240We have I I call the networkers, that's what I call them.
00:13:54.320 -->
00:13:56.960They they're at every meeting, everyone knows who they are.
00:13:57.440 -->
00:14:01.200They love to be with everyone and enjoy that piece of it.
00:14:01.360 -->
00:14:07.200But when it comes down to do you have anyone discounting this week that we can help, that's difficult for them.
00:14:07.279 -->
00:14:13.440Or they haven't built the relationship to the point where that's a comfortable question, even to ask.
00:14:13.679 -->
00:14:16.799So yeah, I hear what you're saying there, definitely.
00:14:18.080 -->
00:14:27.120Yeah, and and I think with your help, I we've developed a more professional way of managing folks in that position.
00:14:27.360 -->
00:14:30.799And that's something that we evolved to early on.
00:14:30.879 -->
00:14:37.679Again, not really knowing the industry, wanting to hire from within the industry because we wanted those relationships.
00:14:38.000 -->
00:14:54.080We did have more of a community relations mentality, and we learned over time we're better served, analyzing the sales force, training, hiring people with drive, really drive to get results rather than just to be liked in the community.
00:14:54.399 -->
00:14:55.120Yeah, yeah.
00:14:55.279 -->
00:14:59.360And so what the referral sources, you mentioned the geriatric care managers.
00:14:59.600 -->
00:15:10.799Out of all of the referral sources, do you have a top three that sent you the big needy clients, the clients that have had high billing, and that they were consistent referral sources for you?
00:15:10.960 -->
00:15:14.639Are there any categories that that stand out for you?
00:15:14.960 -->
00:15:15.919Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:16.080 -->
00:15:21.360And of course, we tracked this pretty closely now, as which we which we did even from the beginning.
00:15:21.519 -->
00:15:29.279But I would say, in terms of quality of leads, geriatric care managers and care management folks who've given us the highest quality leads.
00:15:29.600 -->
00:15:33.120Private geriatric care managers, they get the most difficult cases.
00:15:33.360 -->
00:15:37.919They get situations where they you have folks who just really have a lot of needs.
00:15:38.080 -->
00:15:40.639And home care is often a piece of that.
00:15:40.879 -->
00:15:44.000You might not get the volume, but you certainly get the quality.
00:15:44.320 -->
00:15:53.519Secondly, I would say discharge planners and social workers in skilled nursing, and particularly short-term rehab facilities.
00:15:53.759 -->
00:16:04.080Whether they're part of a continuing of care community or not, those I'd say those two different positions are the ones that we focus on the most.
00:16:04.399 -->
00:16:07.200But finally, the continuum of care communities.
00:16:07.440 -->
00:16:19.759They're really important because if you can really form a relationship with one person there, you've got a pretty good chance of getting an entree to meet the other people who are in charge of care and discharges in those communities.
00:16:19.919 -->
00:16:28.480So I would really say those three areas are, you know, the areas that we focus on the most and get the best results from.
00:16:28.960 -->
00:16:29.519That's good.
00:16:29.679 -->
00:16:30.000That's good.
00:16:30.080 -->
00:16:32.639We I would say that's what we teach in our sales training too.
00:16:32.720 -->
00:16:36.320They're those are really important places to be marketing to.
00:16:36.639 -->
00:16:40.799So your referral strategy, deep dive, your top referral sources.
00:16:40.960 -->
00:16:42.639We kind of talked about that a little bit.
00:16:42.879 -->
00:16:44.080Do you work with elder law?
00:16:44.240 -->
00:16:45.200You're an attorney yourself.
00:16:45.360 -->
00:16:49.440Did you ever go after the elder law attorneys and did you have any luck there?
00:16:50.000 -->
00:16:51.519We did, and we didn't.
00:16:51.679 -->
00:16:54.879So we did think we would have some luck there, and we really didn't.
00:16:54.960 -->
00:17:05.599And what we learned is a lot of the elder law attorneys referred to private care managers, and they let the care managers decide how to find the home care as one piece of the picture.
00:17:06.079 -->
00:17:09.920Also, went after financial planners thinking that was a natural too.
00:17:10.240 -->
00:17:11.680Same sort of situation.
00:17:11.839 -->
00:17:13.359We didn't have luck there.
00:17:13.519 -->
00:17:24.400I think you can get referrals from those places, but again, if focus is really the key, and I really think it is, they don't make the first tier of tar of targets in terms of referral relationships.
00:17:24.559 -->
00:17:30.559They might be in the third tier or even the fourth, in my experience and in our area.
00:17:30.960 -->
00:17:31.200Okay.
00:17:31.359 -->
00:17:38.400And what would you say to someone who says, I'm out marketing all the time, I'm doing the things, but I'm not getting referrals yet?
00:17:38.799 -->
00:17:39.599What would you say?
00:17:39.759 -->
00:17:40.799Because we get that a lot.
00:17:40.960 -->
00:17:46.720And I know a lot of people listening are probably feeling that way or have felt that way in the past.
00:17:47.039 -->
00:17:48.720Yeah, it certainly does take time.
00:17:48.799 -->
00:17:55.839All the data indicates you have to have a lot of contacts before you can begin, before you usually begin a relationship.
00:17:56.079 -->
00:18:08.960So certainly for people starting out, it's really frustrating not to frustrating to meet somebody who you think you've got a rapport with and something in common and they like what you do, and then you don't get a referral.
00:18:09.200 -->
00:18:10.000I think so.
00:18:10.079 -->
00:18:14.480Determination, perseverance, and just continuing to do the right things.
00:18:14.640 -->
00:18:17.359I think if you do the fundamentals, they will come.
00:18:17.680 -->
00:18:28.319I I would also, for somebody who says, I'm doing all the things and I'm still not getting something, two questions that immediately come to mind to me is okay, let's look at your time.
00:18:28.480 -->
00:18:33.119Let's look at who exactly you're talking to, who you're seeing.
00:18:33.279 -->
00:18:36.880And when you say all the right things, what exactly are those things?
00:18:37.039 -->
00:18:41.200I did a lot of things that I thought were all the right things or the wrong things.
00:18:41.519 -->
00:18:54.079And then I think after a while, if you do look at that activity information and all the correct activities are there, then you start to, I think you'd start to say, is this person being effective at it?
00:18:54.240 -->
00:18:55.759Because not everybody is effective.
00:18:55.920 -->
00:19:01.359You can show up in all the right places and still not be particularly good at the sales piece.
00:19:01.440 -->
00:19:03.279And that doesn't make you a bad person.
00:19:03.680 -->
00:19:09.599You might operationally be an awesome operator, but that might not be the right fit.
00:19:09.839 -->
00:19:12.559I think of it sometimes like a billboard on a highway.
00:19:12.640 -->
00:19:19.039You get a lot of billboards get a lot of visibility, but if it's a lousing billboard, all you're doing is get a billboard.
00:19:21.839 -->
00:19:32.559So there are once the activity is there and a person really is doing everything right for a period of time if the results aren't there, then I st I would start to wonder: is this the right fit for this person?
00:19:32.960 -->
00:19:33.200Yep.
00:19:33.279 -->
00:19:35.039I yeah, I would agree with that too.
00:19:35.599 -->
00:19:38.160And the same done if an owner hires a salesperson.
00:19:38.640 -->
00:19:46.240In my mind, I think about what I'm really looking for in the first three months is does the person fit in into our organization?
00:19:47.359 -->
00:19:48.640Are we seeing the right ethics?
00:19:48.799 -->
00:19:52.160Are we seeing the right work ethics and ethics generally?
00:19:52.319 -->
00:19:54.640Are they and then I'm looking for the right activities?
00:19:54.799 -->
00:19:56.640Are they doing what we're asking them to do?
00:19:56.880 -->
00:20:10.480I don't expect big results in three months, but by six months, if all of those things are true and we're not seeing results, then it's to me it's likely we have an effectiveness problem rather than an activity problem.
00:20:10.720 -->
00:20:13.440And what does effectiveness look like in the first three months?
00:20:13.599 -->
00:20:15.039Should they be getting referrals?
00:20:15.200 -->
00:20:19.039Should those have turned into clients within the first three months?
00:20:19.279 -->
00:20:20.720How what are your thoughts on that?
00:20:20.880 -->
00:20:24.079When should they see some kind of result from a new marketer?
00:20:24.400 -->
00:20:29.759I think between the three and the six months, you're gonna you're gonna know, are we starting to get referrals?
00:20:29.920 -->
00:20:31.200And where are they coming from?
00:20:31.440 -->
00:20:36.640Are they coming from the people we already knew and knew us, or are we breaking some new ground?
00:20:36.880 -->
00:20:43.759I don't expect a person to within in three months to start getting so many referrals, they're paying for themselves.
00:20:44.000 -->
00:20:57.599I think by six months, you really should see it should be evident to you based on tracking where the referrals are coming from and paying close attention to how they got them, that they're paving their own path.
00:20:58.079 -->
00:20:58.480Yeah.
00:20:58.640 -->
00:20:58.880Yeah.
00:20:59.119 -->
00:20:59.279Okay.
00:20:59.440 -->
00:21:02.640And would you say by six months they should be paying for themselves?
00:21:04.400 -->
00:21:06.720I would think they should be well on their way.
00:21:06.880 -->
00:21:13.519I think I would I don't think necessarily, and that could depend too on it's a brand new organization.
00:21:13.759 -->
00:21:15.519That's that could be that can take time.
00:21:15.599 -->
00:21:15.759Yeah.
00:21:16.799 -->
00:21:23.839If you're established, though, maybe if you're established and you had a good reputation and you walk into that situation, it should be easier.
00:21:24.160 -->
00:21:28.640There are people who are buying franchises who didn't have a good reputation.
00:21:28.799 -->
00:21:30.960We did ourselves in one of our offices.
00:21:31.039 -->
00:21:34.799We bought a franchise and it had not been running well.
00:21:35.039 -->
00:21:38.240So we had a little bit of repair work to do in the community.
00:21:38.480 -->
00:21:42.240So in those situations, I think we are talking about general rules here.
00:21:42.319 -->
00:21:47.519So I do think six months, uh, you really should see some beginning to see some really good results.
00:21:47.839 -->
00:21:53.119And so we talked about your realization moment and you had hired earlier on.
00:21:53.359 -->
00:21:54.880When would you hire a marketer?
00:21:54.960 -->
00:21:57.200Because you said you wish you had done it sooner.
00:21:57.440 -->
00:21:59.759When maybe how many hours you have?
00:22:00.319 -->
00:22:03.680Under your belt, or is it a timeline on the first year?
00:22:03.839 -->
00:22:08.400When would you start looking at hiring that marketer if you waited too long?
00:22:09.119 -->
00:22:12.880So, me personally, I probably would have done it sometime a couple of years into it.
00:22:13.119 -->
00:22:23.359I would have wanted though, I think those first two years for me personally were very valuable in really getting to know the community and the refer and the community of referral sources.
00:22:23.599 -->
00:22:40.000And I needed to have that time to make my own sort of impression in the community and to understand it so that when I hired someone, I could be, I could have a pretty good gauge of whether there's effectiveness there and how to manage that person.
00:22:40.160 -->
00:22:42.240So I would say that that would be a time.
00:22:42.720 -->
00:22:46.480And I would have probably wish, I wish we would have done that.
00:22:46.960 -->
00:22:48.799And what would you say to someone?
00:22:49.039 -->
00:22:54.799Do they hire someone with experience that's a lot more expensive and comes with their own referral sources?
00:22:54.880 -->
00:22:56.559Because they always tell you they do.
00:22:56.960 -->
00:23:12.559Do you put the money down for someone like that, or do you hire someone maybe that has that great personality, has some charisma, seems driven, has the right character traits, you can pay them less, but it might take them a little bit longer to understand the industry and all that.
00:23:12.720 -->
00:23:18.079When you're a new company, you don't really maybe have the money for the salesperson who's been doing this for a while.
00:23:18.240 -->
00:23:19.839What are your thoughts on that?
00:23:20.720 -->
00:23:28.160One thing I'm pretty sure that nobody I ever hired brought nearly as much business with them as they sort of probably could.
00:23:28.960 -->
00:23:35.839The sort of people that I've encountered have way overestimated their ability to have that immediate impact.
00:23:36.000 -->
00:23:38.799So I don't really pay that much attention to that.
00:23:39.039 -->
00:23:51.920I do think that if you've been out there yourself and you know the community, then you can start to figure out which people are respected and effective and which ones aren't if you're going to hire from within that community.
00:23:52.160 -->
00:23:53.359So that makes it easy.
00:23:53.440 -->
00:24:03.759But I don't I've really become more of an advocate of looking for people, whether they're in the community or the when I say the community, I mean the elder care community.
00:24:04.000 -->
00:24:16.000I think people from outside who have had good backgrounds in sales training and have had to do the hunting and have had to be accountable for results.
00:24:16.160 -->
00:24:24.160Maybe folks who have used the CRM who are familiar with the data around sales tracking and sales management.
00:24:24.319 -->
00:24:29.039I would look for people that more than I would whether they're from the industry or not.
00:24:29.279 -->
00:24:35.039And and I do think you can get bargains with anything out there in the world.
00:24:35.279 -->
00:24:42.799And we've all probably experienced people who are inexperienced, relatively inexpensive, and who prove to be amazing.
00:24:42.960 -->
00:24:45.440But it is more difficult to do that.
00:24:45.519 -->
00:24:47.359So I more look for a track record.
00:24:47.519 -->
00:24:54.720It doesn't have to be necessarily long, but I'm really looking for a track record of success in sales before I want to hire anyone.
00:24:54.880 -->
00:24:57.279And that can be tricky to figure that out.
00:24:57.599 -->
00:25:01.119Salespeople are usually pretty good at selling their track records.
00:25:01.440 -->
00:25:01.839That's right.
00:25:02.000 -->
00:25:02.240Yeah.
00:25:02.880 -->
00:25:04.960They do very well in interviews most of the time.
00:25:05.119 -->
00:25:05.200Yeah.
00:25:05.519 -->
00:25:05.759Yeah.
00:25:05.839 -->
00:25:10.559But again, we've had some great had some great success hiring, and we've certainly made some mistakes.
00:25:10.640 -->
00:25:18.640And along those lines, I do think that when you do make a mistake, and the sooner you realize it and make a correction, the better.
00:25:18.799 -->
00:25:22.720It just I'm too many times in my career I've held on to people.
00:25:22.960 -->
00:25:28.559They weren't being well served by working with us, they weren't succeeding, and we weren't succeeding with them.
00:25:28.799 -->
00:25:35.200And I don't want to sound heartless, but I do think the sooner you figure that out and make a change, it's going to be better for everybody.
00:25:35.440 -->
00:25:35.759Yep.
00:25:35.839 -->
00:25:36.240Yeah.
00:25:36.480 -->
00:25:40.079And speaking of the, you had mentioned the CRM and accountability.
00:25:40.160 -->
00:25:44.160What what kind of KPIs do you have for your salespeople, your marketing people?
00:25:44.400 -->
00:25:45.920What do their KPIs look like?
00:25:46.079 -->
00:25:48.720How do you hold them accountable and manage them?
00:25:49.119 -->
00:25:53.759Yeah, we've certainly developed those over the years and increased the number of KPIs.
00:25:53.920 -->
00:25:59.200And I'm hoping to continue to do that under we have a new CRM system called Welcome Home.
00:25:59.279 -->
00:26:04.319And I think it'll give us some reporting capabilities that are beyond what we've had before.
00:26:05.119 -->
00:26:07.839I think the number one thing is qualified leads.
00:26:08.000 -->
00:26:12.079If I'm looking at one thing, that's what I'm looking for more than anything else.
00:26:12.319 -->
00:26:17.200Qualified leads that you can directly connect with that person's activity.
00:26:17.440 -->
00:26:22.720Also look at overall leads, but I really think qualified leads is the most important.
00:26:23.359 -->
00:26:34.079We track metrics like new new new lead sources, which how many times are we getting a referral and a new client from a brand new source?
00:26:34.400 -->
00:26:38.079We look at specific activities related to sales.
00:26:38.160 -->
00:26:43.039So on a monthly basis, we look at now our I said that's monthly is what I look at.
00:26:43.200 -->
00:26:48.160Our executive directors in our four offices look at things more on a weekly basis.
00:26:48.400 -->
00:26:50.000But how many meetings were held?
00:26:50.160 -->
00:26:51.759How many prescheduled meetings?
00:26:51.920 -->
00:26:53.359How many presentations?
00:26:53.519 -->
00:26:56.319How many sponsorships did we do?
00:26:56.559 -->
00:26:58.079How many drop bys?
00:26:58.400 -->
00:27:02.640And we have goals for each of those uh KPIs.
00:27:03.279 -->
00:27:12.799And we have weekly meetings to discuss with our sales folks what happened during the week that ended and what's going to be happening next week.
00:27:12.960 -->
00:27:16.400So a lot of discussion around those particular KPIs.
00:27:16.799 -->
00:27:17.920Yeah, for sure.
00:27:18.160 -->
00:27:20.720And sales and converting inquiries.
00:27:20.880 -->
00:27:23.200So families in crisis move fast.
00:27:23.519 -->
00:27:26.079So how do you guys respond to new inquiries?
00:27:26.240 -->
00:27:26.960What does that look like?
00:27:27.119 -->
00:27:35.440I was a family and I called your office, walk me through their journey from start to finish, not finish, but through signing, becoming a client.
00:27:35.599 -->
00:27:36.480What does that look like?
00:27:36.880 -->
00:27:40.240Urgency is certainly something we just work constantly on.
00:27:40.480 -->
00:28:00.720And our goal is to meet, is to quickly parlay that phone call into a face-to-face meeting at the soonest possible time, because the sooner we can physically get in front of somebody and form that human connection and explain, learn more about them and then explain what how we can add value the better.
00:28:01.039 -->
00:28:05.519So we try to have an intake meeting within a day or two.
00:28:05.759 -->
00:28:07.039We're usually pretty good at that.
00:28:07.279 -->
00:28:15.519And operationally, we really have worked very hard to be able to begin new cases within a day, even 24-7 cases.
00:28:15.680 -->
00:28:16.799It's not easy.
00:28:17.920 -->
00:28:34.079But I what I found is that there's nothing you can do as important operationally as be prepared to begin a new case quickly and meet the needs of both the person referring to you and the client who's often in a crisis situation.
00:28:34.400 -->
00:28:44.319When a call comes in or a website inquiry comes in, I like to think that everybody looks at that like somebody just walked in with a piece of gold in their hand.
00:28:44.720 -->
00:28:45.039That's right.
00:28:46.160 -->
00:28:50.079If you can't get excited about that, then they're probably not in the right place.
00:28:50.240 -->
00:29:05.680Now I'm not going to say we execute that perfectly every single time, in particular at the beginning when you might be, as a new owner, the only person in the office who can really talk effectively to a lead, and you're you're in, you're doing something else.
00:29:05.759 -->
00:29:09.680You're doing another intake or you're doing something else, you can't call back immediately.
00:29:09.839 -->
00:29:17.759But that's the goal is to immediately have a competent person, you know, have a good phone con initial phone conversation.
00:29:18.000 -->
00:29:24.240I know there's some folks who think that conversations should be very extensive and a lot of information gathered.
00:29:24.480 -->
00:29:41.279I'm more in the school of gather really important information, but try to get that to a face-to-face meeting as soon as possible, and not get too hung up on getting every detail at the beginning, which I think for some people calling in can be off-putting.
00:29:41.680 -->
00:29:44.799Too many questions, too many qualified questions.
00:29:47.359 -->
00:29:48.240I totally agree with you.
00:29:48.319 -->
00:29:50.960In our sales training, we call it the 10-second connect.
00:29:51.039 -->
00:29:56.480You connect in 10 seconds, make yourself the expert in the conversation, get the assessment booked.
00:29:56.559 -->
00:29:58.480And that the goal is just get it booked.
00:29:59.119 -->
00:29:59.680Absolutely.
00:29:59.839 -->
00:30:01.039I'm in full agreement.
00:30:01.359 -->
00:30:01.680Yeah.
00:30:01.920 -->
00:30:05.759And so you guys aren't the cheapest home care agency in town.
00:30:05.839 -->
00:30:08.319And I understand you have minimums.
00:30:08.559 -->
00:30:15.119And so, how have you managed to share to get them to see the value versus the price tag?
00:30:15.279 -->
00:30:16.720Because that's really what it takes.
00:30:16.799 -->
00:30:20.240You have to sell them value when you're not the least expensive.
00:30:20.319 -->
00:30:22.559And in home care, you do get what you pay for.
00:30:22.640 -->
00:30:25.440I've seen lots of things in 20 years happen.
00:30:25.599 -->
00:30:27.680And so, how have you managed to do that?
00:30:27.839 -->
00:30:33.359Where how are you teaching your salespeople to sell value versus the price tag?
00:30:34.160 -->
00:30:35.519Yeah, that's a big one.
00:30:35.599 -->
00:30:40.640I think at the beginning, we were at the beginning of there's a desperation around getting clients.
00:30:41.039 -->
00:30:43.039We certainly accepted clients.
00:30:43.279 -->
00:30:53.359I can remember accepting clients who wanted two hours every two weeks and being happy I got them because it was a client you could now talk about and you satisfied a referral source.
00:30:53.599 -->
00:30:58.079But I think very quickly you realize that's not a winning strategy.
00:30:58.400 -->
00:31:01.200And at the beginning, we tried to be price competitive.
00:31:01.359 -->
00:31:06.559We wanted to be level with the other players in the field so we weren't at a disadvantage.
00:31:06.799 -->
00:31:20.640Over time, I became very comfortable being either the most expensive or one of the most expensive in our area, not by a long shot, but I felt very comfortable being a little on the more expensive side.
00:31:20.880 -->
00:31:34.000And the reason is I found that if you are getting the right referrals, if you have the right referral partners and you're getting the right referrals, the difference between a dollar or two doesn't matter to the person on the other end.
00:31:34.160 -->
00:31:42.160For the clients we're trying to go for, they will take the trusted advice of that person and they'll look at the dollar or two.
00:31:42.240 -->
00:31:46.400When you're at$30,$40, it doesn't mean that much.
00:31:46.559 -->
00:31:50.720You can the the money doesn't mean that, the difference doesn't mean that much.
00:31:50.880 -->
00:31:59.359And if somebody says, hey, for your mother, I think this is the right company, my feeling is they're gonna, they're going to pay the extra.
00:31:59.599 -->
00:32:02.799And it is extra because we pay our caregivers a little more.
00:32:02.960 -->
00:32:06.640We offer benefits, we do things for our people.
00:32:06.799 -->
00:32:13.839We have the sort of company that does incur some expenses to make it price.
00:32:14.400 -->
00:32:19.839So I'm not shy about saying I realize we're not the most inexpensive alternative.
00:32:20.079 -->
00:32:21.599I do think the quality is there.
00:32:21.759 -->
00:32:22.720You have to prove it.
00:32:22.880 -->
00:32:25.039You can't everybody says that.
00:32:25.200 -->
00:32:27.119So I think you do have to prove it over time.
00:32:27.440 -->
00:32:29.359I think we've done that in our community.
00:32:29.440 -->
00:32:33.599And I also think pricing is one of the most important things an owner can do.
00:32:33.759 -->
00:32:37.039I'm really convinced that most donors leave money on the table.
00:32:37.279 -->
00:32:42.319They're too concerned of not being exactly even with their major competitors.
00:32:42.480 -->
00:32:47.279And I just don't, I've never believed we had to be as long as we were good at what we did.
00:32:47.599 -->
00:32:49.680Yeah, there and there's value just in that.
00:32:50.000 -->
00:32:58.160Just the fact that the caregivers are getting paid more, they're happier, they're going to be better caregivers because they're happy where they are, they have benefits.
00:32:58.640 -->
00:33:05.519And so, what was the hardest period, the most difficult stress stretch you faced as an agency owner?
00:33:05.680 -->
00:33:07.359What did it look like from the inside?
00:33:07.519 -->
00:33:12.079Was it financial, operational, personal, all three, all of the above?
00:33:12.480 -->
00:33:15.519I guess every day at the beginning I wasn't getting a paycheck out.
00:33:15.759 -->
00:33:17.119That was stressful.
00:33:17.359 -->
00:33:20.400Yeah, and then sorting out with my brother, how are we going to do this?
00:33:20.559 -->
00:33:23.599And that was the most stressful period then being the first year.
00:33:23.759 -->
00:33:24.400It really was.
00:33:24.559 -->
00:33:25.039It's hard.
00:33:25.200 -->
00:33:28.319It's hard that first year, I feel, for people going through that.
00:33:28.559 -->
00:33:37.680The other two things that I would cite as being very stressful were the time periods where we our revenue was dropping and we couldn't figure out why.
00:33:37.839 -->
00:33:42.079And that that's happened a couple of times, and not just for a month or two.
00:33:42.240 -->
00:33:49.119We've had we've had twice I can think of where over year over year we went in the wrong direction.
00:33:49.359 -->
00:33:55.200And I honestly can't figure out to this day necessarily why.
00:33:55.440 -->
00:33:58.960I think there is some randomness to this business.
00:33:59.279 -->
00:34:07.039I think there's I think over the long haul, if you're doing all the right things, that the growth growth curve will work for you.
00:34:07.200 -->
00:34:16.320But I think you can go through periods here where you may be doing absolutely nothing wrong, but you might not get the 24-7 cases you got the previous year.
00:34:16.480 -->
00:34:19.840You might have had changes in some key referral sources.
00:34:20.159 -->
00:34:21.760There could be a lot of things.
00:34:21.920 -->
00:34:29.039And those are very stressful periods because for me, in my mind, I was always wondering, did I really tick somebody off out there?
00:34:29.679 -->
00:34:32.800Is there something going on that I don't even understand?
00:34:32.960 -->
00:34:36.000And I think in retrospect, I've learned no, no, there wasn't.
00:34:36.079 -->
00:34:39.920And if we stick to the fundamentals, we'll get through those hardest times.
00:34:40.079 -->
00:34:42.800But they're very stressful when things aren't going the right way.
00:34:43.360 -->
00:34:43.599Yeah.
00:34:43.760 -->
00:34:46.239And what kept you motivated during those times?
00:34:46.400 -->
00:34:54.800I know as a business owner can feel very lonely when things drop like that and you don't know why, and you don't know when the next big job is going to come in.
00:34:55.039 -->
00:34:58.559How do you keep yourself motivated when those kinds of things happen?
00:34:59.119 -->
00:35:03.119I think having a good peer group is extremely important.
00:35:03.360 -->
00:35:08.000Having a support network for us, touching hearts is it's a franchise organization.
00:35:08.079 -->
00:35:10.159So it's a built-in support network.
00:35:10.400 -->
00:35:19.519I think there's other ways to get a good support network, but that was, I felt, really important because then you do realize that other people have very similar struggles.
00:35:19.679 -->
00:35:21.920And it's perseverance.
00:35:22.000 -->
00:35:29.760I think what I've learned is that you nothing, no career, nothing in life always goes in the right direction.
00:35:29.920 -->
00:35:35.039You just perseverance is one of the keys, grit, perseverance, grit.
00:35:35.199 -->
00:35:36.800It's just the key to success.
00:35:36.960 -->
00:35:42.559And you know, I'm a stubborn Irishman, so it came naturally to me just to hang in there.
00:35:42.880 -->
00:35:45.920Yeah, I think grit is an important word in home care.
00:35:46.320 -->
00:35:51.199I think every role needs to have, especially scheduling, maybe a lot of grit.
00:35:51.280 -->
00:35:54.320You just gotta get back up, wipe yourself off, and keep moving.
00:35:54.480 -->
00:35:56.719So it's a big, it's a big piece of it.
00:35:56.880 -->
00:35:58.719So, where is your agency today?
00:35:58.960 -->
00:36:06.480You don't have to share exact numbers, but active clients, caregivers on staff, how many office team members, how many years in business?
00:36:06.639 -->
00:36:08.559How's that evolved over the years?
00:36:08.880 -->
00:36:16.480Yeah, so we have four offices now, all across New York State, the Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, and Albany.
00:36:16.880 -->
00:36:24.559And probably a total of close to 400 caregivers total, probably around 300 clients, roughly.
00:36:24.960 -->
00:36:27.280Business is growing in each of those markets.
00:36:27.440 -->
00:36:33.599In in each office, we have anywhere from eight to five people, depending on the size.
00:36:34.000 -->
00:36:38.000Rochester is our biggest, is our original and our biggest office.
00:36:38.400 -->
00:36:52.639And yeah, and it's become more complex because we're in four different cities, and it's been it's harder when you expand territorially to really keep your finger on the pulse of everything going on in each office.
00:36:52.880 -->
00:36:56.800It becomes a the whole thing becomes more difficult to manage.
00:36:57.039 -->
00:37:02.400And of course, hiring the right people, it's as Jim Collins said, you got to get the right people on the bus.
00:37:02.559 -->
00:37:04.079That's the very first thing to do.
00:37:04.239 -->
00:37:10.320And in my experience, it's our success is directly related to having good people on the bus.
00:37:10.559 -->
00:37:16.400And when we have stumbled over time, at least part of the reason has has been not having the right people on the bus.
00:37:16.719 -->
00:37:24.239What would you say is the hardest role to hire in the office for the admin staff or office, the people that aren't caregivers?
00:37:24.880 -->
00:37:29.679I think the hardest, because in part it's the most important, is the sales or the sales folks.
00:37:30.000 -->
00:37:36.960I think I think another very difficult thing to find is a scheduler whoever can sustain the emotional object.
00:37:38.559 -->
00:37:38.960Exactly.
00:37:39.119 -->
00:37:39.199Yeah.
00:37:39.519 -->
00:37:52.800It's also very tricky because it's a highly detail-oriented job or a great organization is really important, but they're also the single most, probably the single most important contact with clients and caregivers.
00:37:53.039 -->
00:38:03.840And if that person doesn't have the interpersonal skills, all in the organization, the detail orientation in the world is it going to make them the most successful caregiver they or scheduler they can be.
00:38:04.159 -->
00:38:09.199We've been very lucky, but I realize in the industry it's kind of over and over.
00:38:12.639 -->
00:38:13.280Oops.
00:38:13.760 -->
00:38:15.840We're losing you there for a minute, Mark.
00:38:17.119 -->
00:38:17.599Oops.
00:38:17.760 -->
00:38:19.760It looks like maybe he's frozen.
00:38:20.639 -->
00:38:21.199Oops.
00:38:22.320 -->
00:38:22.639Okay.
00:38:23.679 -->
00:38:25.199Let me tell him he froze.
00:38:25.599 -->
00:38:25.920Okay.
00:38:26.880 -->
00:38:32.400I don't know if he'll need to come in and out or if it'll Maybe turn your camera off, Mark.
00:38:32.480 -->
00:38:33.760Sometimes that'll help.
00:38:34.800 -->
00:38:35.440How about now?
00:38:35.920 -->
00:38:36.320There we go.
00:38:36.400 -->
00:38:36.880Now you're good.
00:38:37.280 -->
00:38:38.000Okay, he's back.
00:38:38.239 -->
00:38:38.639Yay.
00:38:38.880 -->
00:38:42.480You marketing hardest, scheduling also very hard to hire.
00:38:42.639 -->
00:38:44.000And they do need to.
00:38:44.159 -->
00:38:49.039It's interesting because they are gritty, and the ones that I've hired have been almost pit bull.
00:38:49.199 -->
00:38:59.760They get in the ring and they're ready to go, but they also need to be able to communicate well with and be calm and rational and kind to the caregivers and the clients.
00:38:59.920 -->
00:39:01.920So it's a hard role for sure.
00:39:02.079 -->
00:39:03.360I would totally agree with that.
00:39:03.519 -->
00:39:03.679Yeah.
00:39:04.000 -->
00:39:06.239Any advice for every stage of growth?
00:39:06.400 -->
00:39:12.000So just brand new, stuck at the same revenue for a year in the first 90 days of a new agency.
00:39:12.320 -->
00:39:15.920Just what do you have to say about any of those or all those things?
00:39:16.480 -->
00:39:22.480Yeah, and in the 90 days, it's really setting the baseline of getting the right systems in place and understanding.
00:39:25.760 -->
00:39:26.639Oops.
00:39:27.519 -->
00:39:28.159Frozen again.
00:39:30.079 -->
00:39:31.920I'm sorry, it must be my internet.
00:39:32.320 -->
00:39:33.119Yep, we're good.
00:39:33.199 -->
00:39:33.920You're good again.
00:39:34.159 -->
00:39:34.400Okay.
00:39:34.800 -->
00:39:34.960Yeah.
00:39:35.119 -->
00:39:43.119So it's really it's really just understanding how the business will function on a systemic and sort of process level, probably in the first 90 days.
00:39:43.280 -->
00:39:48.079But I think immediately you really need to be out there in the community while you're doing that.
00:39:48.320 -->
00:39:53.760You can't possibly get that spigot of business turned on soon enough.
00:39:53.920 -->
00:39:58.800And you know, it should almost always be hiring and caregivers and marketing.
00:39:59.840 -->
00:40:04.079One big challenge is when you do get some clients in and they require a lot of attention.
00:40:04.239 -->
00:40:09.039I've made the mistake of we just can't market for the next two weeks, or we just can't hire the next two weeks.
00:40:09.280 -->
00:40:10.559That's a bit that's a bad idea.
00:40:11.440 -->
00:40:11.679Yeah.
00:40:11.840 -->
00:40:12.159Yeah.
00:40:12.320 -->
00:40:13.119I would agree with that.
00:40:13.360 -->
00:40:15.039I would at the same time.
00:40:15.440 -->
00:40:31.440And I think later on when you're established, it's it I think it having metrics is and KPIs is extremely important and really understanding what data to look at to see how how you're progressing in the business is really key.
00:40:31.679 -->
00:40:47.280And managing toward those metrics and having a good office process with regular meetings and getting everybody on board and really forming that team that's going to propel you to the next level is key, as well as hiring that right salesperson.
00:40:47.920 -->
00:40:59.760And I think as time goes on, in addition to just continuing to drive that presence in the community and the that referral sales process, as things become more complex, they do change.
00:40:59.840 -->
00:41:04.639And you've got to adapt to being able to, at some point you won't know all your clients.
00:41:04.800 -->
00:41:07.440At some point you won't know all your employees.
00:41:07.599 -->
00:41:11.360And even in a single office, that I found that to be true.
00:41:11.599 -->
00:41:17.360And there you have to do things a little differently to make sure you've still got your finger on the pulse of the business.
00:41:17.679 -->
00:41:18.079Yeah.
00:41:18.320 -->
00:41:23.679And so what would you say to people who are stuck at the same level for they just cannot break to the next level?
00:41:23.760 -->
00:41:25.280Do they need to hire another market?
00:41:25.360 -->
00:41:30.559Or what what have you been stuck at us at a level and had a hard time breaking through?
00:41:31.119 -->
00:41:35.039Yeah, that's happened a couple of times, as I mentioned, that year over year we didn't grow.
00:41:35.119 -->
00:41:36.159And it was really frustrating.
00:41:36.320 -->
00:41:38.639And to some degree, I still don't understand it.
00:41:38.800 -->
00:41:44.880But I've also encountered periods of time where we weren't being successful for months at a time.
00:41:44.960 -->
00:41:48.159And it turned out that there were some very specific causes of it.
00:41:48.239 -->
00:42:05.119And most of it led back to certain certain functions not operationally, including sales, being done particularly well, and really requires some diagnostic, diagnostic work within your company to really understand it.
00:42:05.360 -->
00:42:17.440So having mechanisms to understand when employees are happy rather than having a gut feel, it becomes very important to have sort of surveys and good a good understanding of are your people happy?
00:42:17.519 -->
00:42:19.119Are your caregivers happy?
00:42:19.360 -->
00:42:20.719Are they performing well?
00:42:20.960 -->
00:42:22.239What about your clients?
00:42:22.400 -->
00:42:23.039Are they happy?
00:42:23.199 -->
00:42:24.239How do you know?
00:42:24.559 -->
00:42:26.639What data are you gathering?
00:42:26.800 -->
00:42:28.320How about your referral sources?
00:42:28.719 -->
00:42:36.159Are you still in touch enough as an owner to understand how people are perceiving your salesperson or your service?
00:42:36.400 -->
00:42:38.079You won't always learn those things.
00:42:38.239 -->
00:42:43.599So you have to have ways of and it's a lot of it comes down to diagnostics and KPIs.
00:42:43.679 -->
00:42:45.039It's but not all of it.
00:42:45.199 -->
00:42:49.760You'd have to have a good understanding of how well are we doing this work here.
00:42:50.000 -->
00:42:56.639And if we're not doing it well, is it a process or is it a person or is it some combination of all of the above?
00:42:56.800 -->
00:42:59.440It usually is, usually a combination of things.
00:42:59.679 -->
00:42:59.920Yeah.
00:43:00.079 -->
00:43:00.719Yeah.
00:43:02.800 -->
00:43:04.000Rapid fire.
00:43:04.719 -->
00:43:06.639So we've hit on some of these.
00:43:06.719 -->
00:43:08.960So you've talked about the best referral stores.
00:43:09.280 -->
00:43:18.559Maybe a biggest business lesson was that much that I heard a marketer sooner, or is there another lesson you'd like to learn or teach us, talk to us about?
00:43:18.800 -->
00:43:27.519Yeah, I I think for in in this field, I think you as my dad used to say you have to what's it, rub your belly and scratch your head at the same time.
00:43:27.679 -->
00:43:31.599And what I mean by that is you've got to be good operationally.
00:43:31.760 -->
00:43:34.480You can't just market your way to success.
00:43:34.719 -->
00:43:43.119If you're operationally not sound and you're not really providing good care, you may get flashes in the pan, but over time it will not sustain.
00:43:43.599 -->
00:43:47.119And you've got to really be good at the sales piece as well.
00:43:47.440 -->
00:43:50.960And so it's about it's a balanced approach.
00:43:51.039 -->
00:43:53.679You can't just pay attention to one versus the other.
00:43:53.920 -->
00:43:57.599And I would say, again, on the sales side, I think it's focus.
00:43:57.760 -->
00:43:59.679I think you just have to fish where the big fish.
00:44:00.639 -->
00:44:07.360You can spend so much time on things in the outreach and sales and marketing that aren't productive.
00:44:07.440 -->
00:44:16.000And the focus on repeated referral sources who see a high volume of older adults in need is where it's at.
00:44:16.400 -->
00:44:22.639And the hardest part of ownership, what do you think the hardest part about running your agency that nobody warns you about?
00:44:23.119 -->
00:44:36.239For me, it's been when people have let me down, and every everything from the care partners who don't show up to the person you just hired who you think is awesome and they don't show up for their first shift or they quit after a week.
00:44:36.960 -->
00:44:41.440Or finding out, which has just happened to me at times, you're giving the wrong information.
00:44:41.920 -->
00:44:54.639The people are you're seeking accuracy and data and other things, and for various reasons, you get the wrong information from someone who you thought you could trust to give you the right information.
00:44:54.960 -->
00:44:56.880So that's when people disappoint you.
00:45:01.039 -->
00:45:03.440I used to, I'm losing my faith in humanity.
00:45:03.840 -->
00:45:05.519Something's gotta live here.
00:45:05.679 -->
00:45:06.559This is crazy.
00:45:06.719 -->
00:45:07.760Yeah, it's hard.
00:45:08.320 -->
00:45:15.679And if you're in business long enough, yes, one of your employees is likely to do something to a client that really is shameful.
00:45:15.840 -->
00:45:16.000Yeah.
00:45:16.480 -->
00:45:17.840There's no way to avoid it.
00:45:17.920 -->
00:45:21.599You do your best, but when that happens, it's devastating.
00:45:21.760 -->
00:45:37.119So I think dealing with the emotional roller coaster, particularly in the beginning of the ups and downs and the disappointments, that's really that it again it requires some perseverance and and a few glasses of wine help too.
00:45:38.079 -->
00:45:38.719For sure.
00:45:39.039 -->
00:45:39.599For sure.
00:45:39.760 -->
00:45:40.960I can understand that.
00:45:41.119 -->
00:45:43.760What would you say your best investment that you made?
00:45:44.320 -->
00:45:49.679Where you put the dollars in in the ROI and was came back, you it was good.
00:45:50.559 -->
00:45:51.760I'm glad I did that.
00:45:53.199 -->
00:45:58.960Yeah, I would say hiring good salesperson is probably that that best investment.
00:45:59.199 -->
00:46:07.920I think one of the things about our business that isn't that is true is that you can succeed greatly without a ton of investment.
00:46:08.079 -->
00:46:11.760I just I don't think this is really uh it's not a capital-intensive business.
00:46:11.920 -->
00:46:13.440There is no silver bullet out there.
00:46:13.599 -->
00:46:18.000You can't buy a machine that's going to give you a huge competitive edge over somebody else.
00:46:18.239 -->
00:46:23.679We don't have a technology that's brand new and therefore going to be adapted early.
00:46:23.920 -->
00:46:26.400I this is really an execution business.
00:46:26.559 -->
00:46:36.880I think investing in people, and particularly before it becomes your nightmare with your own workload is, I would say, probably in general the best investment you can make.
00:46:37.199 -->
00:46:46.079And for your salesperson or salespeople that you've hired, I know you've sent several of them through our training, and it's it's worked out really well for you.
00:46:46.159 -->
00:46:52.480And I don't know if you want to touch on that a little bit, but what else do you have someone go out on the field with them to also train?
00:46:52.639 -->
00:46:55.280What other kind of training are they getting?
00:46:55.679 -->
00:46:57.679Yeah, that's a lot of OJT.
00:46:57.840 -->
00:47:04.559Except it was a big step forward for us to use your organization for sales training because we didn't have a formal program.
00:47:04.719 -->
00:47:08.480Most small companies can't afford a formal sales training program.
00:47:08.719 -->
00:47:10.480And so you do your best.
00:47:12.320 -->
00:47:14.000And often you need more.
00:47:14.159 -->
00:47:21.440And so I I don't look back on our sales training prior to using your company and see that it was adequate, quite frankly.
00:47:21.679 -->
00:47:25.840I can certainly train people with certain things, but again, I'm not a professional salesperson.
00:47:26.320 -->
00:47:39.760What we've recently done is promoted somebody into the role of a regional sales manager, so now they're supervising as a very experienced person who's also been through your training who can now supervise other sales folks.
00:47:39.920 -->
00:47:40.559So yeah.
00:47:41.119 -->
00:47:53.199I can see where that would be a big benefit for your agent because you have the all four companies and having someone watching over all of them and watching the trends and all of that, where that could be really beneficial and bring them all together.
00:47:53.519 -->
00:47:54.880That's a great idea.
00:47:55.280 -->
00:47:56.800Thank you, Mark, for everything.
00:47:56.960 -->
00:48:03.920I don't know if you have anything else you want to share with us, but this has been just fabulous, a fabulous interview.
00:48:04.079 -->
00:48:08.000I think there's been so much really relatable content here.
00:48:08.159 -->
00:48:12.639I think the owners that are watching, you I don't know if we have any questions for Mark.
00:48:12.800 -->
00:48:14.159I see the chat's got something in there.
00:48:14.320 -->
00:48:15.519Any questions for Mark?
00:48:15.679 -->
00:48:16.880The chat is lit up.
00:48:17.039 -->
00:48:21.360If anybody does have any quick questions for Mark, I'm sure he's happy to answer them.
00:48:21.519 -->
00:48:22.719This was so thorough.
00:48:22.880 -->
00:48:23.519I don't know.
00:48:24.239 -->
00:48:30.320I just add, I would be remiss in not saying we're successful because we have hired some amazing people.
00:48:30.559 -->
00:48:33.039We've got very strong leaders in our offices.
00:48:33.199 -->
00:48:36.719Some of our caregivers are absolutely fantastic.
00:48:36.880 -->
00:48:45.199Tomorrow we're having a lunch celebration, or the next day we're having a lunch celebration for the people in our Rochester office who have been with us for 15 years.
00:48:45.440 -->
00:48:45.679Wow.
00:48:46.239 -->
00:48:50.880It really is get the right people on the bus and we have the people on the bus.
00:48:51.199 -->
00:48:56.000Yeah, the people are really, and I used to say every morning, okay, we're all getting on the train.
00:48:56.239 -->
00:49:00.800But as the train's chugging along, people are falling off and we're throwing them back on.
00:49:00.880 -->
00:49:02.719It really is that team effort.
00:49:02.880 -->
00:49:09.519It really, you all have to be moving in the same direction with the same mindset for it to be successful.
00:49:09.679 -->
00:49:12.559And I think that's a really important takeaway today.
00:49:13.039 -->
00:49:14.000The crazy train.
00:49:19.199 -->
00:49:21.280Which is why people are falling off constantly.
00:49:21.360 -->
00:49:22.800You're just get back on here.
00:49:22.880 -->
00:49:24.159I got you, get back on.
00:49:24.400 -->
00:49:26.559So we thank you very much, Mark, for your time.
00:49:27.039 -->
00:49:27.440You're welcome.
00:49:27.760 -->
00:49:28.400It's been my pleasure.
00:49:28.880 -->
00:49:31.039And I know you're gonna have to hop off.
00:49:31.199 -->
00:49:32.960We're gonna go into some more stuff here.
00:49:33.119 -->
00:49:34.800If you have to hop off, that's fine.
00:49:35.039 -->
00:49:36.320We someone said thank you.
00:49:36.480 -->
00:49:37.440This was lovely.
00:49:37.679 -->
00:49:38.000Thank you.
00:49:38.159 -->
00:49:39.840We're getting lots of thank yous coming in, Mark.
00:49:40.320 -->
00:49:40.400Right.
00:49:40.559 -->
00:49:41.679Uh, hopefully it was helpful.
00:49:41.840 -->
00:49:42.239Thank you all.
00:49:42.400 -->
00:49:42.719Bye-bye.
00:49:43.119 -->
00:49:44.320Thanks, Mark and Mark.
00:49:44.719 -->
00:49:45.440Bye-bye.
00:49:46.639 -->
00:49:47.599All right, Annette.
00:49:47.679 -->
00:49:53.119You're uh talking to us about he did such a great he no, I'm not surprised at all how successful he is.
00:49:53.280 -->
00:49:55.039You can just tell he's yeah, yeah.
00:49:55.199 -->
00:49:56.320So go ahead, Annette.
00:49:56.400 -->
00:49:58.559Go ahead and talk about hi everybody.
00:49:59.039 -->
00:50:01.360We're gonna talk about a really important lead behind.
00:50:01.599 -->
00:50:02.639Please stay on, guys.
00:50:02.800 -->
00:50:03.760Go ahead, Annette.
00:50:04.400 -->
00:50:08.079So we have next week is our September 30th.
00:50:08.239 -->
00:50:10.079We actually I have a couple spots open.
00:50:10.159 -->
00:50:18.000So if anybody's interested in the sales training, as Mark just said, I think I've had six of his marketers go through our training.
00:50:18.079 -->
00:50:22.000So it works, and we have a lot of people here today that have been taking the train.
00:50:22.079 -->
00:50:27.280It's 12 weeks once a week for an hour, and we are actually filling up October quickly.
00:50:27.440 -->
00:50:28.480So this is the time.
00:50:28.639 -->
00:50:30.000Get in before the holidays.
00:50:30.079 -->
00:50:32.079We would love to have you in the training.
00:50:32.400 -->
00:50:35.679So put in the chat if you want more information.
00:50:36.079 -->
00:50:38.320Get referrals by week six people.
00:50:38.639 -->
00:50:39.119Oh, yeah.
00:50:39.360 -->
00:50:40.079Yeah, yeah.
00:50:40.320 -->
00:50:44.800All right, Lisa, you're up for our October, leave behind.
00:50:45.039 -->
00:50:46.719You guys want November to be big?
00:50:46.960 -->
00:50:48.320This is how it starts.
00:50:48.480 -->
00:50:49.280Go ahead, Lisa.
00:50:49.519 -->
00:50:55.280It is time to get out and get this everywhere you can, or in a couple few places that you can get this out to.
00:50:55.360 -->
00:50:57.920But pumpkin decorating, we do this every single year.
00:50:58.000 -->
00:51:03.199It's very successful into breaking into those referral partners, definitely.
00:51:03.599 -->
00:51:09.280There's the on the left-hand side, you see a little flyer there, full page flyer, eight and a half by 11.
00:51:09.440 -->
00:51:15.280You can edit anywhere where you see a logo and the black, you can edit anywhere there.
00:51:15.599 -->
00:51:18.880And then if you can go to the next slide.
00:51:19.119 -->
00:51:21.280So kick off October 1st.
00:51:21.440 -->
00:51:22.639We need to go out now.
00:51:22.800 -->
00:51:32.719You guys need to start getting ready to go out now, dropping off pumpkins, of course, get permission and figure out a couple of places that you want to dedicate this time to.
00:51:32.880 -->
00:51:39.920You can make this into a little contest where the whoever's on that other end is texting you.
00:51:40.159 -->
00:51:40.719This is great.
00:51:40.880 -->
00:51:43.199They're texting you the any entries.
00:51:43.360 -->
00:51:47.679Anyone who's done pumpkins, they're texting you these so you can vote, basically.
00:51:47.840 -->
00:51:49.039But make sure to have fun.
00:51:49.119 -->
00:51:50.400You can do a whole thing with this.
00:51:50.480 -->
00:51:54.960You can dress up, you can bring I almost said Christmas Halloween music with you.
00:51:55.119 -->
00:51:56.800You can do all of these different things.
00:51:57.039 -->
00:51:58.719Make sure that you make it big.
00:51:58.880 -->
00:52:01.920Look at the flyer, look at the I guess the next page too.
00:52:02.000 -->
00:52:02.960May have oh, yeah.
00:52:03.280 -->
00:52:08.079So here's like he's decorating past some of them.
00:52:08.239 -->
00:52:11.840Really cool, like how creative these are, but really make this a day.
00:52:12.239 -->
00:52:16.800You can go into a sniff, you can even there was one like a wound care center.
00:52:16.960 -->
00:52:17.440Look at that.
00:52:17.599 -->
00:52:18.960There's a whole bunch of stuff there.
00:52:19.199 -->
00:52:24.880So anywhere that you know you're gonna get some really good referrals, or you have a good relationship, or you're trying to build one.
00:52:25.119 -->
00:52:35.519On the left hand side, a whole bunch of pumpkins, someone slapped their logo sticker on and the flyer with it and said, here, do this, and text us your pumpkin when you're done.
00:52:35.679 -->
00:52:41.760So there's so many different ways you can do this, but I would definitely make it some sort of activity that you can be a part of.
00:52:41.840 -->
00:52:43.599I think being there would be really fun.
00:52:43.840 -->
00:52:47.039But yeah, at least that I just did a oh, what are we calling it?
00:52:47.199 -->
00:52:48.800Home care of unfiltered.
00:52:49.199 -->
00:52:51.199I don't know if any of you have yet.
00:52:51.440 -->
00:52:57.440And we just talked about when you get on a texting basis with your referral source, it is a game changer.
00:52:57.519 -->
00:52:59.119And this is how you do that.
00:52:59.360 -->
00:53:04.639You're they're going to decorate it, they're gonna send you a picture via text, and then you're going to tell them the one.
00:53:04.880 -->
00:53:09.840So this is a great way to get on a texting basis with those referral sources.
00:53:10.000 -->
00:53:11.280It changes the whole name.
00:53:11.440 -->
00:53:12.639They it just really does.
00:53:12.800 -->
00:53:21.760If they have a 24-7 that's discharging that needs care tomorrow, texting you is much faster than picking up the phone and trying to reach somebody else.
00:53:21.920 -->
00:53:23.360So that's a piece of this.
00:53:23.440 -->
00:53:25.039It's not all of it, it's a piece of it.
00:53:25.119 -->
00:53:35.440It's about being fun and being different and bringing in the fall and the spirit of the holidays, and it really will change your November and your October, even what you say, guys.
00:53:36.239 -->
00:53:37.039Oh, yeah, for sure.
00:53:37.599 -->
00:53:45.440There's lots of things already going on for the trilogy October, November, December, but even into January, I feel like there's lots of celebrations.
00:53:45.519 -->
00:53:47.119But this one is going to be super huge.
00:53:47.199 -->
00:53:48.239It is every single year.
00:53:48.400 -->
00:53:50.719Anytime anyone uses it, it's a huge success.
00:53:50.880 -->
00:53:52.320So don't teach dry.
00:53:52.800 -->
00:54:00.159And you can literally just bring their four to six-inch pumpkins, stick them right like this if you want, or ask them to come out and talk to you.
00:54:00.239 -->
00:54:02.960It's a great way to get a face-to-face with these people, too.
00:54:03.039 -->
00:54:07.360Is I hear up with the gatekeeper, I want you guys to enter the pumpkin decorating contest.
00:54:07.440 -->
00:54:12.639All the sniffs in your area are, or all the memory cares in your area are wherever you are.
00:54:12.719 -->
00:54:16.239You can tell them that they will come out and talk to you, leave them the pumpkin.
00:54:16.400 -->
00:54:18.159We're not asking them to carve the pumpkin.
00:54:18.239 -->
00:54:20.000They're never gonna no knives.
00:54:20.400 -->
00:54:21.199No, no carving.
00:54:21.920 -->
00:54:28.000Look at these, these are real pumpkin submissions that have come in through the love this.
00:54:28.159 -->
00:54:32.159They would ask me in August, don't forget to bring me the pumpkin when it's time.
00:54:32.239 -->
00:54:33.360I can't wait to do this.
00:54:33.519 -->
00:54:34.960They really get into this.
00:54:35.119 -->
00:54:39.199This one here, this this little blue girl, she actually turned.
00:54:39.360 -->
00:54:41.119They put her on a battery operator.
00:54:41.280 -->
00:54:45.280Yeah, they actually turned and she was on a mirror and she was just beautiful.
00:54:45.360 -->
00:54:47.119And so they love this.
00:54:47.280 -->
00:54:49.599This kind of thing changes your relationship with them.
00:54:49.760 -->
00:54:51.440So we definitely wanted to touch on this.
00:54:52.320 -->
00:54:54.800Be sure you're getting your pumpkins, you're getting them out there.
00:54:54.880 -->
00:54:56.559And Lisa mentioned an activity.
00:54:56.800 -->
00:55:04.800You certainly could sit down with them in memory care or assisted living and decorate the pumpkins with with your seniors.
00:55:04.960 -->
00:55:08.880You are responsible though to bring the pumpkins and all the decorating and everything.
00:55:09.039 -->
00:55:12.559Yeah, all the cleanup, all the cleanup, it's all on you.
00:55:12.719 -->
00:55:19.199So you could do that too, or suggest that they have a community dump pumpkin decorating and bring all the things.
00:55:19.360 -->
00:55:21.920This is a really fun one, but you got to get started now.
00:55:22.320 -->
00:55:28.400Yeah, you want to get on that that activity director's calendar, ASAP, because they're probably filling up or already full.
00:55:28.480 -->
00:55:30.320So make sure that you get on there.
00:55:30.559 -->
00:55:30.880Yep.
00:55:31.199 -->
00:55:33.599And you will get all the PDFs with the replay.
00:55:33.679 -->
00:55:38.079And I just somebody had a question where do you order the stickers with your logo?
00:55:38.239 -->
00:55:44.079You can order them online, but I used to use a local printer in my town, and I was able to get stickers and magnets.
00:55:44.239 -->
00:55:51.199They're usually pretty cheap to purchase, and they're nice to have because then you could have your little sticker and stick the flyer on the pumpkin.
00:55:51.360 -->
00:55:54.480You can also buy the label paper, there's just label paper.
00:55:56.239 -->
00:55:56.880Blank stickers.
00:55:57.360 -->
00:55:57.840Yeah, yeah.
00:55:58.000 -->
00:55:59.519And then you just print right off there.
00:55:59.679 -->
00:56:01.679It's just labels that you would probably mail.
00:56:02.000 -->
00:56:05.119If you have a good yeah, if you have a good printer, the sizes are right.
00:56:05.199 -->
00:56:09.920They also have full page sticker paper that goes through the printer.
00:56:10.159 -->
00:56:12.400So you gotta be good at cutting straight if you do that.
00:56:12.719 -->
00:56:13.760I've done all kinds of things.
00:56:13.920 -->
00:56:28.320You should absolutely have sticky logo because when you bring in a brochure rack for that snip, when you bring your brochures to be on their time, if you don't have a rack to put those in with your sticky label logo on there, they're gonna end up in a drawer.
00:56:28.480 -->
00:56:31.760If your logo is on there and it's sticky, they know it's your company.
00:56:31.920 -->
00:56:33.519Only your brochures go in there.
00:56:33.760 -->
00:56:37.199When you're dropping off cookies or anything, you can slap that logo on there.
00:56:37.280 -->
00:56:38.960Make sure your phone number is there too.
00:56:39.280 -->
00:56:41.360That you just need to have those in your cart.
00:56:41.440 -->
00:56:43.360It's just something that should always be with you.
00:56:43.840 -->
00:56:44.159Yeah.
00:56:44.480 -->
00:56:48.639And the links to the candle link that bear, they'll be on the PDF as well.
00:56:48.719 -->
00:56:49.679And then the Google Doc.
00:56:49.840 -->
00:56:53.039So you can just go into the Google Doc and make a couple changes if you want.
00:56:53.360 -->
00:56:53.679Yep.
00:56:54.239 -->
00:56:54.480All right.
00:56:54.719 -->
00:56:58.079Any other questions about October, about Halloween?
00:56:58.320 -->
00:56:58.800We're good.
00:56:58.880 -->
00:57:00.239I don't see any more questions.
00:57:00.400 -->
00:57:00.639All right.
00:57:01.039 -->
00:57:03.119Also, October 1st is National Coffee Day.
00:57:03.199 -->
00:57:03.840Don't forget that.
00:57:04.000 -->
00:57:05.519You can use the coffee leave behind.
00:57:06.159 -->
00:57:06.400Yes.
00:57:06.639 -->
00:57:08.159There's a coffee leave behind for that.
00:57:08.239 -->
00:57:08.400I know.
00:57:10.400 -->
00:57:10.880Where is it?
00:57:10.960 -->
00:57:11.199It is.
00:57:11.440 -->
00:57:12.159Do we have it up?
00:57:12.239 -->
00:57:12.400Yeah.
00:57:12.639 -->
00:57:14.159Use the coffee leave behind.
00:57:14.320 -->
00:57:14.719Bam.
00:57:15.039 -->
00:57:17.679That's you can get a cell phone number easy with that as well.
00:57:17.920 -->
00:57:18.639All right, guys.
00:57:18.719 -->
00:57:19.440Thank you so much.
00:57:19.679 -->
00:57:20.800It was great seeing everybody.
00:57:21.599 -->
00:57:22.000Hi, everybody.
00:57:22.239 -->
00:57:22.800Let us know.
00:57:23.039 -->
00:57:23.360Bye bye.
00:57:23.760 -->
00:57:24.159See you next time.
00:57:24.400 -->
00:57:24.559Bye.
