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Hey, friends.
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Welcome to the Divorce Clarity Studio on WGSNDB, Going Solo
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Network Radio Podcasts and TV. I'm your host, Lisa Lisser,
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CEO and founder of LZL Coaching, a boutique coaching firm
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focused on divorce, relationships, and life transitions. I created the
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Divorce Clarity Studio because I believe divorce is about so
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much more than the legal process. It's about identity, relationships, parenting, finances, healing,
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and and discovering who you really are. So whether you're
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considering divorce in the middle of the process, learning to co-parent,
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or rebuilding your life afterward, my hope is simple, that
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you'll leave each conversation feeling a little less alone, a
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little more grounded, and a lot more confident in taking
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your next clarity-informed move. So let's talk about love. Before, during,
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and after divorce, our expectations, experiences, and beliefs about love
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are chaotically broken. We grow up, or at least I
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grew up, believing the fairy tale. And in fact, real
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fairy tale princesses are an essential part of our society's
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perspective on love. The thing is, those stories end when
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the princess gets the prince. But we don't know much
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about this prince. We don't know his background, his financial prospects,
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or even his relationship with his mother. And we certainly
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don't know what happens next, how he treats her during
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their life together. We lose the story just before it
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gets real. And for many of us, that's our actual
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perspective about love. But real love, lasting love, is something
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very different. And it starts from the inside out. not
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from the outside in. Today's guest is incredible. She is
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an expert in bringing us back to love. So let
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me introduce Robin Vogel. Robin asks, oh, my pleasure. Robin asks,
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can a shattered heart become the doorway to your greatest
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love story? At 10, Robin lost her mom without warning.
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an ache that hijacked her self-worth, her trust, and every
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relationship that followed for decades. Now her book, Come Back
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to Love, braids Robyn's experiences with her proven healing roadmap,
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The Four Gates, a trauma-informed process that has already guided
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hundreds from repeating pain to receiving real love. The book
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is part memoir, part practical guide, And it reveals how
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Robin found her way back to wholeness and how we
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all can too. And so with that, I'd like to
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welcome Robin Vogel to the Divorce Clarity Circle. Welcome, Robin.
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Thank you so much, Lisa. It's a pleasure to be here.
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And I already love everything you said.
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Well, it's so much about all of our situations, right?
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Our settings for life. We are born into a setting.
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And society gives us a setting, like the setting for
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the 1960s and 70s, which is when I was born
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and grew up, is different than the setting for the 2000s, 2010s, 2020s.
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But it all is created with this story we have
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about love. So let's begin. You know, Robin, I always
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start by asking my guests to tell us your story.
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So please. Please.
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Tell us your story.
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Happy to. I want to say that in a session
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that I was just in with a client, she said
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something like, don't all women grow up wanting to be
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the princess, which is such a function of the time
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that she grew up in. And that that probably was
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true in the sixties and the seventies and the fifties.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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You know, but like you said, you know, those that
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are growing up, our kids, yours and mine that are
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growing up now have a different setting and different standards
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that they're trying to live up to. Yeah. So my
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story is like you said, And like you shared with
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our viewers already, my mother, she died when I was 10.
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She was sick for about four years. It was the
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time in life, the decade where the belief was, if
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you don't talk about it, it's not real. If you
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don't talk about it, we don't have to deal with it.
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And certainly don't tell the kids because those kids need
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to be protected. So my younger sister and I, my
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younger sister, she was quite young when my mother got sick.
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I was six years old. She was only three. So
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her experience is different than mine. But certainly I knew
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and felt something was going on that wasn't being talked about.
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And so as I was getting older and just dealing
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with the crisis of my mother dying at 10 years
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old and I was in fifth grade, as I got older,
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I realized it was more than that. I just felt
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intuitively like it wasn't just that she died. I mean,
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that's a massive thing to go through.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And a massive thing to go through as a child. Obviously,
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no doubt about that. But I just felt there's more.
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And then sort of these other pieces came in like, yeah,
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nobody talked about it. They basically lied to us for
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the four years. They lied to me for the four years.
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And I could feel, again, that something was happening and
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clearly something was wrong. There were so many things that
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showed that, but there were no words to put to
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what I was feeling or what I was confused by
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or what I was aware of that was then doubted
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because- it wasn't spoken about. So it got very complex
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and the, it, it's informed my whole life, you know, obviously,
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and it brought me to this work because honesty, communication,
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telling the truth, learning to be open and vulnerable and intimate.
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And I don't mean sexual, I mean, intimate with people, um,
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were things that were not at all demonstrated in my life.
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I didn't even really know they existed. And it took
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until my early 30s to realize that it was something
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I could actually also experience. Like, I just had no idea.
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I sort of went through the motions of the setting
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that you described and the expectation. I had some boyfriends
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and I had a husband.
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Yeah.
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And, and it all was fine and good, you know, but,
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but I wasn't myself yet through any of that because
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I was still so processing what had happened. And I
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really had no idea what happened until I understood that
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there were lies, that there were, that there was hiding,
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that there was like, once all of that got clear, I,
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I saw the picture of it, but it took, a
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long time to get there.
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Yeah.
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Like 20 years minimum, you know?
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Yeah. Well, that's like a very real experience, especially for
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people in our generation that, you know, things are, when
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you say things are not talked about and things are
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hidden by the people who are supposed to love you
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and protect you, then you have you you're trusting people
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and so now your relationship is with trust and love
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is conflicted right because you don't know how to trust
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because when you trust the people who are protecting you
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or who are say they're protecting you and they're they're
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keeping very big important information away from you um it
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makes it very hard to to take off your armor
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and to be able to like really experience another person,
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but also experience yourself. Because by not telling you, they
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didn't allow you to have the feelings that were coming up.
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And it must have been confusing for you. As you said,
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you knew that something was going on, but you weren't
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able to understand because no one explained it. So all
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of these emotions are swirling inside you and you can't
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process them because you're a child.
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Right. Without the words. Yeah. Yeah, that was a whole
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other piece. of really getting the very strong message. Do
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not speak of what is happening or what is real.
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That was such a strong message. I actually used to
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think in my young, young self that if I spoke
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the truth, the words, earth would sort of open up
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and swallow me into it. That was my visual. And
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so I swore like with every particle of my being
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that I would not speak about important things and how
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I felt.
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Yeah.
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The unwinding of that, you know, I'm just so grateful.
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I had good resources that I have that sort of
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inner strength that I have that I'm just, you know,
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this is, my time on the, I believe in this
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lifetime that I came in with a lot of, you know,
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capacity because unwinding that has been, you know, nothing short
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of a miracle. I always say to people when I'm
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standing in front of a room full of people, like
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full hundreds of people. And I tell my story in
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person in front of all of them without my voice cracking,
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without my heart racing, without going into a full on
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sweat and passing out.
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Yeah.
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I say like, this is a miracle. I didn't even
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like people singing happy birthday to me. I didn't want
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anybody looking at me. Oh, wow. So it's, you know,
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that's why I do the work because I know the
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miracle of healing and that it's entirely possible. Yeah. It's
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entirely possible to go from incredibly shut down to having
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love in my life that like fills my heart and,
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you know, over and over again.
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Um, You know, so many things are coming up in
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this conversation. And, you know, one thing that, that is
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really like sort of yelling in my ear is that
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when people don't tell you the truth and you know
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that you're missing some information, you feel like maybe you
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don't deserve the truth. Like maybe I'm not worthy, you know,
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maybe I'm not lovable or trustworthy enough to get what's real.
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And it, it becomes you start telling a story in
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your head. And then when you don't know if you
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are valuable, then it's very hard to release energy in
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the world that says you're valuable so that others should
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treat you with joy and love and respect. And that, yeah,
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I'm sure that was a big thing for you and
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for so many people.
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Yes, that was a huge thing for me. And thank
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you for weaving that into... you know, the realm of
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work that we both do, which is, you know, supporting
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people in really knowing their worth, you know, learning sort
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of where they are, assessing where they are in the
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moment would be like the first step. But then really understanding,
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you know, the impact that you just described and how
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when we don't hold ourselves in high esteem, that we're
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putting energy out, in that way we're putting that lower
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self-esteem energy out and then we're attracting to us a
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match for that lower self-esteem either somebody that wants to
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take advantage or somebody that also feels terrible about themselves
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and needs help uh you know so there's no rescuing
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that person might need but energy attracts energy you know
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there's nothing we can do about that and um and
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that's really, really helpful to know what you're putting out and,
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and for people that are either going through divorce or
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considering divorce to be able to look back and, and
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not from a place of blame and shame or anything,
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but just like information, you know, clarity.
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Clarity it's data, right? Like, so this thing happened to
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me and it's not because I was a bad person.
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It's not because I didn't deserve something different. And I
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went through a lot of years saying that no one
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promises you happiness. Like when people would say to me, oh,
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you deserve to be happy. And my response was like,
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who says? That was my initial response. Like who says
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you deserve to be happy? Like this life happens and
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we live the life that we're given. We choose how
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to show up in that life. And I think that's
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where the joy can come and the reconnection is like,
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we need to choose to find the love within us
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that we can then release. And then that becomes attraction.
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Yes.
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There are no guarantees.
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Right.
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Right.
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It's true. There are no guarantees. And it's like you said,
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you know, I write about this in my book, the
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moment where I was in a kind of a women's initiation,
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personal growth, deeply spiritual earth-based work that I did when
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I was 32, 33. And we had just completed a
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full day and I was looking across the room and
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there's all these beautiful women that, you know, all of
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us were just like glowing from the work that we
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had done. But I was watching these women and they
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were like cozy and connecting and loving on each other,
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just in such a, sweet, relaxed way. And I just
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heard myself say, that's for them, not me. And the
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point is, I heard it for the first time. It's
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not that I didn't know that I believed that because
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it wasn't a new thought. I was like, wow, I've
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heard a lot. But then I actually heard myself say it.
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And then that's when I realized, oh my gosh, I
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actually believe that. And where is that going to get
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me in life? Nowhere. Yeah.
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Yeah, nowhere. And so I have this Jewish spirituality practice
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that's part of who I am and it's part of
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my core. And the golden rule, as we call it,
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love your neighbor as yourself. There is an implication in
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there that you need to love yourself first. Because how
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can you love your neighbor if you don't love yourself?
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And I don't think people go there. I don't think
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people get that rule. that instruction. I won't call it
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a rule. It's an instruction because we need to learn
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how to love ourselves. And I think that's what your
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work does. Yeah.
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I see it as an invitation. I love the word instruction.
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And because of the culture that we're in, people typically,
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and I know I've been guilty of it myself, just
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leap over that implication and they hear, And I heard
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love my neighbor.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Don't love myself. Love my neighbor.
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Yeah. Very different. And the thing is, you know, what
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I go to, if we don't love ourselves, then whatever
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we can't, we can't, you know, we could put energy
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on our neighbor, but it's not love.
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Right.
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And so that's, that's a big thing. But we're actually
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already halfway. So, Wow. Let's take a quick break and
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we will be back after a word from our sponsor
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with our wonderful guest, Robin Vogel. And we'll be back.
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Thank you.
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And we're back with Robin Vogel, author of Come Back
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to Love. Um, Robin, we didn't talk all about your background,
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but you are a therapist and you have a lot
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of professional credentials. Um, I'm wondering, like, I know your backstory.
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We know a little bit about your backstory, but what
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led you to build your program and what are the
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four gates?
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Two questions.
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Yes, it's two questions.
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I love two questions at the same time because that's
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how my brain works. What led me to build my
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program is the desire to support others in not experiencing
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what I experienced. And it became clear at some point
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as I was divorcing my co-parent that I had a
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lot of experience and a lot of skill in order
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to bring that into the world. He was actually the
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one who said, you know, you really should bring this
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into your work. Like, you're a rock star. And I
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was like, wow, you're right.
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Nice.
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Yeah, totally nice. I give him credit always. Um, and so, yeah,
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so I, you know, took that on and, and I
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want to give back what I didn't have and what
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I didn't experience. And so my book come back to
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love after 20 years of working. I mean, I don't
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look at, but I'm 60 for anybody that's watching us
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live or watching the replay, the recording, um, you know,
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after 20 20, more than 20 years of doing this work,
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I started to feel into legacy.
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Okay.
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And I also have always wanted to, I've been writing
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books for the last 15 years. It's just, none of
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them actually got finished. Um, Which is about the book.
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But the part about the four gates came right before
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the book because I started to think like, what am
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I actually really doing? And I was walking down a path.
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I was going to a wedding of two people that
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met in one of my workshops and fell in love
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over the course of several workshops that they took with me.
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And I was invited to the wedding and I was
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walking down the path. And I just thought I was
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talking with somebody as we were walking together. And I
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would just sort of all came to me that what
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I'm bringing to people is is sort of laying out
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the red carpet of love. And what do we do
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on that path, on that red carpet? And I started
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to think about the different aspects of the work. Obviously,
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I'm a psychotherapist. We live in the United States. Emotional
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work is prime time. And so we spend a lot
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of time in the emotional realm. That's gate one. Okay.
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That's infused with internal family systems work and EMDR and
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trauma-based work, all the things that I've been studying over
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many years. Extremely effective. The goal is to find the obstacles,
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the things that are blocking your heart from love. That's
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the goal.
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Okay.
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At gate two, as you're walking down the path, Gate
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two has to do with what are the limiting beliefs
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that have been blocking you? Just like the example I
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just gave, this limiting belief I had been living with,
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but wasn't aware of that I was living with it
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on a truly conscious level. It wasn't an unfamiliar thought,
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but I wasn't giving it attention until that moment when
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I was like, it sort of, you know, highlighted itself
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in a big way. But there's, there's, so there's thoughts
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like that. And then there's really the unconscious thoughts that
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are living behind the scenes underneath everything that are running lives,
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making decisions that are wreaking havoc on people's lives. Because
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like we just said, if you don't really believe in yourself,
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you're going to attract all different experiences that prove that
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to be true.
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Right. So I just want to share that when you're
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talking about limiting beliefs, we may not understand the term
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limiting beliefs, but One thing that I know is common
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for strong women and for all women is that we
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think we're too much. People tell us we're too much. Yes.
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And so then we make ourselves smaller and then we're
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not actually being authentic to ourselves. And so think about
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if we make ourselves smaller to become attractive to a
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certain person and then we are with them. We're going
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to have to break out of that small box. And
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so now our real self comes through and maybe they
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didn't expect that. And there's so much that's part of
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that story. But I don't want to be too intimidating.
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That's like a message that I used to get all
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the time. And it made it hard to really honor
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my own gifts. And I'm sure that that's something that
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comes up a lot with people in your workshops. It's like,
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if we had to give ourselves away in order to
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feel like we were valuable, how do we come back?
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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So there's very, very potent work. Thank you for giving
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a specific example that resonates with our audience today. There's very, again,
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potent science-based work that has to do with rewiring the brain.
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And we hear about it in lots of places in
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the world these days. The work that I do is
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work that healed me about six, seven years ago when
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I had some things that were very, very stuck in
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my body and my mind. And nothing short of a miracle.
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And I was like, I'm including this because we really
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can't only do the emotional work because those beliefs will
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derail We can only get so far by doing the
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emotional work. So the piece of working with the mind
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at gate two goes hand in hand with gate one
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and allows us to actually move forward in our lives
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and heal. And then gates three and four address the
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other aspects that are a little broader. Well, especially gate three,
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we look at the soul's journey and what are the lessons?
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Why do we come this lifetime? What are the lessons
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that we decided to take on? That's my belief that
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we chose to take these on. and that they're gifts.
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And so there's a journey that I take my, my
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clients on. And if you read the book, you can,
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you can go on it somewhat yourself. That's gate three
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and gate four is about the body and befriending the body,
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including the body and our decisions and including the body
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in our lives. And, you know, love yourself, love your
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neighbor as you love yourself. It's like our bodies get,
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get sequestered off. And our bodies have, the wisdom and
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the impulses and the intuition and the guidance. And so
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that's just including the body and all the things that
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we do to heal and come back to love with ourselves.
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That's, it's so beautiful. It's really so powerful. You know, like,
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and I think I wanted to share with you that,
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you know, with my Jewish education, when I got my master's,
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I learned about this rabbi from the, 11th century Spain
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called Rabbi Bahya ibn Pakuda. And he wrote a book
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called Duties of the Heart. And it had 12 gates.
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And yes. And so when you talk about the gates,
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I'm thinking about Bahya and the fact that, you know,
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he believed that the people of his time became disconnected
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from their soul. And that they needed to reinforce their
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connection with their soul. And there were concrete steps and
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gates to go through.
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Yes.
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And that philosophy I really took to heart because it
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was like the distinction between our souls and our bodies.
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But as you say, the braiding of them together and
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so much informs the other. Like if our bodies aren't well,
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then our spirit is down. But when our spirit isn't well,
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then our bodies are down. So how do we learn
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to lift them up and walk through these gates? And
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so like, that's what has been coming up for me.
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You know, when I was reading your book, when I
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was reading that book, it's like, pow. So thank you.
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Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. I love that. It makes me feel like,
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you know, the word gates is the word that came
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to me and it feels very ancient now that you
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put that piece in. Yeah.
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Yeah. But it is. And I think that all of
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our learning comes like organically from lived experiences, not just
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of us, but of the people who came before us. And,
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you know, when we talk about collective memory or traumas
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that are familial traumas that happened before in our family,
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it's about, you know, we are in a link. You know,
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our gates are connected to other people's gates. And that's,
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you know, to me, all of this is really, you know,
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opening up different aspects of what it means to come
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back to love. How do we find ourselves?
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Right. Exactly. Yes.
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Yeah.
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Some people ask like, and you just answered it. A
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lot of people ask like, what do you mean come
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back to love? Like even, you know, workshop participants just
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recently asked like, well, what do you mean? What are
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we coming back to? And yeah. you know, back to ourselves,
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back to our divine selves, like where we are at
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the core is divine and God. And we forget, as
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you just said, we forget our soul. We disconnect from
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our soul, from our bodies. And so all of it
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for me is about remembering and creating spaces where people
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can remember.
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I love that.
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Yeah.
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And I think that it's really challenging for people to
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remember because it feels vulnerable to go back to an
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earlier space, to an earlier iteration of yourself. It feels
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really vulnerable. Who was I before I was six, right?
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Like everything changed in your life when you were six, really.
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And it just, you didn't know it was changing until
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you were 10. when you had this traumatic loss, this break.
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Right.
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But, you know, there was probably a lightheartedness in you
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as a child that is the light that shines out now.
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And it was, it didn't know where to go, right?
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And many of us have those experiences.
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Mm-hmm.
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So I feel like your work uncovers the light in
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all of us. Mm-hmm.
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Thank you. I always get teary when we connect.
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I know.
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Today is no different. Thank you.
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No, you're bringing so much into the world. That's I
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was like, you must come on. You must come on
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because we need to share these conversations because they're so big. And, and,
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you know, when you find people in the world that
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you have that resonance with, you, you need to recognize it. And,
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you know, we, We get afraid of like, can I
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reach out? What are they going to think of me?
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Like maybe they're not feeling the same thing I'm feeling.
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And again, that's about coming back to love because like,
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where do we find confidence? We need to practice it.
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Yes.
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To practice it. Confidence is a practice.
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Yes.
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And I'm not taking ownership of that one. I actually
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heard that on Mel Robbins. So thank you, Mel. But,
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you know, who is wise? One who learns from all.
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And like everyone can be your teacher.
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Yes.
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And that's another powerful thing.
477
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Yes, a whole other episode. But I want to emphasize
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what you said because it is so important. I mean,
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confidence is because we build a skill and we get
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good at it. And no matter who says it, like
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we've got that definition. Yeah. And the practice of loving...
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yourself as a verb is vital. The practice of noticing
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when something gets in the way and having a tool
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because things get in the way we fear shows up,
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you know, like you said, you know, like you reflected
486
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:19.509
in me, you know, I had all this armor because
487
00:31:19.549 --> 00:31:22.750
I was so afraid that people were going to leave
488
00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:27.960
like my mother, like other people left. Um, And so,
489
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.819
you know, having the right tools so that when that
490
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.529
comes up, you know what to do. That's a practice.
491
00:31:34.130 --> 00:31:34.470
Yeah.
492
00:31:35.069 --> 00:31:39.150
And then loving others is a practice. It's all just
493
00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:41.869
what you said. It's a practice that we get to
494
00:31:41.910 --> 00:31:46.069
learn and we get to strengthen that muscle over time. Yeah.
495
00:31:46.549 --> 00:31:49.079
But we have to like, we have to have the
496
00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:53.660
courage to even begin the practice, right? We can say,
497
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:56.549
because sometimes you get too close. You feel like, Like
498
00:31:56.829 --> 00:31:59.710
if we were different people and we connected and like
499
00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:02.430
for some reason we teared up every time we were
500
00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:05.319
near each other, we might choose not to be near
501
00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:08.880
each other, right? We might not be brave enough to
502
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.759
let the vulnerability come out. Right. And I think with
503
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.740
some people that happens. And like even with me and
504
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:19.339
some people that would happen because you don't feel safe.
505
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:23.680
Like and what does it take to feel safe? Yeah.
506
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:26.869
So we just have a few minutes left. I would
507
00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:30.630
love for you to talk about your retreats and your workshops. And,
508
00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:33.329
and I know it's just a few minutes, but. Sure.
509
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.660
Every year I take a group to Costa Rica and
510
00:32:39.819 --> 00:32:42.700
other really beautiful places. Last year we were in Italy.
511
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:46.640
This year we're back in Costa Rica, December 27th, and
512
00:32:46.700 --> 00:32:50.619
we've got an eight day retreat crossing into the new year.
513
00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:54.220
And this is where we get to immerse ourselves into
514
00:32:54.269 --> 00:32:57.950
this work of really looking at the hidden places or
515
00:32:57.990 --> 00:33:01.950
the obvious places that have armor and are protecting from love.
516
00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:05.029
And we do the work in a gentle way, in
517
00:33:05.069 --> 00:33:11.240
a beautiful location, lush, lush, lush Costa Rica. Yeah. Hundreds
518
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.299
of hummingbirds of all different colors and the river. It's
519
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:16.039
just amazing.
520
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:19.089
But what I love about it also is that we,
521
00:33:20.450 --> 00:33:23.549
we've mentioned God, we talked about the divine, and some
522
00:33:23.589 --> 00:33:27.759
people struggle with the idea of God. And for me,
523
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:33.759
being in a space in nature that is so grand
524
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.200
helps me feel God.
525
00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:37.099
Yes.
526
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:42.619
That's greater than ourselves. And so to be in that space,
527
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:47.309
we're creating a setting that gives us a better opportunity
528
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:49.329
to access love.
529
00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:54.940
A hundred percent what you said. Yes. Yes. A hundred percent.
530
00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:56.660
I don't even need to repeat it. Being in that
531
00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:01.220
location is a major contribution to the healing and the
532
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.299
growth and the play and the fun and the relaxation.
533
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.640
I mean, all of those things, when you spend eight
534
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:13.610
days in community in Costa Rica, you experience. So that's happening. Great.
535
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:16.409
Connect to love.com is my email address. So thank you
536
00:34:16.429 --> 00:34:19.019
for putting it up there. You can find information about
537
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:23.380
the retreat there. And you asked me about my book.
538
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:25.860
Maybe that was the next piece. And there it is
539
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:28.980
on Amazon. You can look up Robin Vogel, come back
540
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.360
to love and you'll find it. And thank you in
541
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.820
advance for listening and being present.
542
00:34:37.300 --> 00:34:40.780
Of course. It's a wonderful book. So I I've read
543
00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:42.719
it and I'm going to read it again because I
544
00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:44.980
think that you really need to sit with the gates
545
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:49.880
and understand them and, walk through them. Sometimes you want
546
00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:51.659
to read it and then you need to go back
547
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:55.099
to actually do the practice. Like what is the practice?
548
00:34:55.219 --> 00:34:58.940
And now I'll do the practice. So that's how.
549
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.400
I- There's a lot of exercises in there. So there's
550
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.400
a lot of opportunity to really do your own personal
551
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.019
growth work, which was my intention.
552
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:10.199
Yeah. Which is wonderful. So thank you so much, Robin.
553
00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:12.719
It was so great having you. This is such a
554
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:17.199
powerful conversation and I want to thank you, my audience,
555
00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:20.599
for listening to the Divorce Clarity Studio. If you like
556
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:24.199
what you've heard, please subscribe, like, and follow us. And
557
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:28.960
if someone you know could benefit from this episode, please share. Remember,
558
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:35.389
you're not alone. And you can find me at www.lzlcoaching.com.
559
00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:39.150
So see you next time on the Divorce Clarity Studio.
560
00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:47.440
You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, Singles Talk Radio Channel,
561
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:50.900
where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions
562
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.219
on the journey of relationship loss, divorce, parenting, being single,
563
00:35:55.530 --> 00:35:58.829
relationships building, dating, and yes, sex.
564
00:35:59.190 --> 00:36:02.329
Join our listeners and begin living your best life.
1
00:00:00.110 --> 00:00:00.350
Hey, friends.
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Welcome to the Divorce Clarity Studio on WGSNDB, Going Solo
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00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.899
Network Radio Podcasts and TV. I'm your host, Lisa Lisser,
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00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.439
CEO and founder of LZL Coaching, a boutique coaching firm
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00:00:41.500 --> 00:00:46.229
focused on divorce, relationships, and life transitions. I created the
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00:00:46.270 --> 00:00:49.850
Divorce Clarity Studio because I believe divorce is about so
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00:00:49.890 --> 00:00:57.310
much more than the legal process. It's about identity, relationships, parenting, finances, healing,
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00:00:57.329 --> 00:01:01.200
and and discovering who you really are. So whether you're
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00:01:01.229 --> 00:01:05.870
considering divorce in the middle of the process, learning to co-parent,
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00:01:06.269 --> 00:01:10.329
or rebuilding your life afterward, my hope is simple, that
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you'll leave each conversation feeling a little less alone, a
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little more grounded, and a lot more confident in taking
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your next clarity-informed move. So let's talk about love. Before, during,
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and after divorce, our expectations, experiences, and beliefs about love
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are chaotically broken. We grow up, or at least I
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00:01:37.969 --> 00:01:41.829
grew up, believing the fairy tale. And in fact, real
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fairy tale princesses are an essential part of our society's
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perspective on love. The thing is, those stories end when
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the princess gets the prince. But we don't know much
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00:01:54.730 --> 00:01:59.129
about this prince. We don't know his background, his financial prospects,
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00:01:59.569 --> 00:02:02.689
or even his relationship with his mother. And we certainly
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don't know what happens next, how he treats her during
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their life together. We lose the story just before it
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gets real. And for many of us, that's our actual
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perspective about love. But real love, lasting love, is something
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00:02:18.909 --> 00:02:23.020
very different. And it starts from the inside out. not
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from the outside in. Today's guest is incredible. She is
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an expert in bringing us back to love. So let
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00:02:32.069 --> 00:02:40.939
me introduce Robin Vogel. Robin asks, oh, my pleasure. Robin asks,
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can a shattered heart become the doorway to your greatest
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love story? At 10, Robin lost her mom without warning.
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an ache that hijacked her self-worth, her trust, and every
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relationship that followed for decades. Now her book, Come Back
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00:02:59.379 --> 00:03:04.639
to Love, braids Robyn's experiences with her proven healing roadmap,
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The Four Gates, a trauma-informed process that has already guided
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hundreds from repeating pain to receiving real love. The book
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is part memoir, part practical guide, And it reveals how
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Robin found her way back to wholeness and how we
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all can too. And so with that, I'd like to
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welcome Robin Vogel to the Divorce Clarity Circle. Welcome, Robin.
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Thank you so much, Lisa. It's a pleasure to be here.
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And I already love everything you said.
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Well, it's so much about all of our situations, right?
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Our settings for life. We are born into a setting.
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And society gives us a setting, like the setting for
46
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the 1960s and 70s, which is when I was born
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and grew up, is different than the setting for the 2000s, 2010s, 2020s.
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But it all is created with this story we have
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about love. So let's begin. You know, Robin, I always
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start by asking my guests to tell us your story.
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So please. Please.
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Tell us your story.
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Happy to. I want to say that in a session
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that I was just in with a client, she said
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something like, don't all women grow up wanting to be
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the princess, which is such a function of the time
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that she grew up in. And that that probably was
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true in the sixties and the seventies and the fifties.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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You know, but like you said, you know, those that
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are growing up, our kids, yours and mine that are
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growing up now have a different setting and different standards
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that they're trying to live up to. Yeah. So my
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story is like you said, And like you shared with
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our viewers already, my mother, she died when I was 10.
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She was sick for about four years. It was the
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time in life, the decade where the belief was, if
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you don't talk about it, it's not real. If you
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don't talk about it, we don't have to deal with it.
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And certainly don't tell the kids because those kids need
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to be protected. So my younger sister and I, my
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younger sister, she was quite young when my mother got sick.
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I was six years old. She was only three. So
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her experience is different than mine. But certainly I knew
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and felt something was going on that wasn't being talked about.
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And so as I was getting older and just dealing
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with the crisis of my mother dying at 10 years
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old and I was in fifth grade, as I got older,
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I realized it was more than that. I just felt
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intuitively like it wasn't just that she died. I mean,
81
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that's a massive thing to go through.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And a massive thing to go through as a child. Obviously,
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no doubt about that. But I just felt there's more.
85
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And then sort of these other pieces came in like, yeah,
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nobody talked about it. They basically lied to us for
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the four years. They lied to me for the four years.
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And I could feel, again, that something was happening and
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clearly something was wrong. There were so many things that
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showed that, but there were no words to put to
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what I was feeling or what I was confused by
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or what I was aware of that was then doubted
93
00:07:03.069 --> 00:07:09.769
because- it wasn't spoken about. So it got very complex
94
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and the, it, it's informed my whole life, you know, obviously,
95
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and it brought me to this work because honesty, communication,
96
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telling the truth, learning to be open and vulnerable and intimate.
97
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And I don't mean sexual, I mean, intimate with people, um,
98
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were things that were not at all demonstrated in my life.
99
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I didn't even really know they existed. And it took
100
00:07:43.410 --> 00:07:46.680
until my early 30s to realize that it was something
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I could actually also experience. Like, I just had no idea.
102
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I sort of went through the motions of the setting
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that you described and the expectation. I had some boyfriends
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and I had a husband.
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Yeah.
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And, and it all was fine and good, you know, but,
107
00:08:10.329 --> 00:08:13.949
but I wasn't myself yet through any of that because
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I was still so processing what had happened. And I
109
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really had no idea what happened until I understood that
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there were lies, that there were, that there was hiding,
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that there was like, once all of that got clear, I,
112
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I saw the picture of it, but it took, a
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long time to get there.
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Yeah.
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Like 20 years minimum, you know?
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Yeah. Well, that's like a very real experience, especially for
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people in our generation that, you know, things are, when
118
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you say things are not talked about and things are
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hidden by the people who are supposed to love you
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and protect you, then you have you you're trusting people
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and so now your relationship is with trust and love
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is conflicted right because you don't know how to trust
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because when you trust the people who are protecting you
124
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or who are say they're protecting you and they're they're
125
00:09:15.870 --> 00:09:20.529
keeping very big important information away from you um it
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makes it very hard to to take off your armor
127
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and to be able to like really experience another person,
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but also experience yourself. Because by not telling you, they
129
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didn't allow you to have the feelings that were coming up.
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And it must have been confusing for you. As you said,
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you knew that something was going on, but you weren't
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able to understand because no one explained it. So all
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of these emotions are swirling inside you and you can't
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00:09:51.769 --> 00:09:54.049
process them because you're a child.
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Right. Without the words. Yeah. Yeah, that was a whole
136
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other piece. of really getting the very strong message. Do
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not speak of what is happening or what is real.
138
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That was such a strong message. I actually used to
139
00:10:12.789 --> 00:10:16.679
think in my young, young self that if I spoke
140
00:10:16.740 --> 00:10:20.769
the truth, the words, earth would sort of open up
141
00:10:22.389 --> 00:10:26.850
and swallow me into it. That was my visual. And
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so I swore like with every particle of my being
143
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that I would not speak about important things and how
144
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I felt.
145
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Yeah.
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The unwinding of that, you know, I'm just so grateful.
147
00:10:43.340 --> 00:10:45.440
I had good resources that I have that sort of
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inner strength that I have that I'm just, you know,
149
00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.629
this is, my time on the, I believe in this
150
00:10:51.690 --> 00:10:54.490
lifetime that I came in with a lot of, you know,
151
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capacity because unwinding that has been, you know, nothing short
152
00:10:59.389 --> 00:11:01.350
of a miracle. I always say to people when I'm
153
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standing in front of a room full of people, like
154
00:11:04.009 --> 00:11:08.220
full hundreds of people. And I tell my story in
155
00:11:08.289 --> 00:11:11.799
person in front of all of them without my voice cracking,
156
00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:14.919
without my heart racing, without going into a full on
157
00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:16.559
sweat and passing out.
158
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Yeah.
159
00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:20.120
I say like, this is a miracle. I didn't even
160
00:11:20.139 --> 00:11:22.159
like people singing happy birthday to me. I didn't want
161
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anybody looking at me. Oh, wow. So it's, you know,
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that's why I do the work because I know the
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miracle of healing and that it's entirely possible. Yeah. It's
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entirely possible to go from incredibly shut down to having
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love in my life that like fills my heart and,
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you know, over and over again.
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Um, You know, so many things are coming up in
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this conversation. And, you know, one thing that, that is
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really like sort of yelling in my ear is that
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when people don't tell you the truth and you know
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that you're missing some information, you feel like maybe you
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don't deserve the truth. Like maybe I'm not worthy, you know,
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maybe I'm not lovable or trustworthy enough to get what's real.
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And it, it becomes you start telling a story in
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your head. And then when you don't know if you
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are valuable, then it's very hard to release energy in
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the world that says you're valuable so that others should
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treat you with joy and love and respect. And that, yeah,
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I'm sure that was a big thing for you and
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for so many people.
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Yes, that was a huge thing for me. And thank
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you for weaving that into... you know, the realm of
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work that we both do, which is, you know, supporting
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people in really knowing their worth, you know, learning sort
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of where they are, assessing where they are in the
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moment would be like the first step. But then really understanding,
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you know, the impact that you just described and how
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when we don't hold ourselves in high esteem, that we're
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putting energy out, in that way we're putting that lower
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self-esteem energy out and then we're attracting to us a
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match for that lower self-esteem either somebody that wants to
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take advantage or somebody that also feels terrible about themselves
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and needs help uh you know so there's no rescuing
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that person might need but energy attracts energy you know
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there's nothing we can do about that and um and
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that's really, really helpful to know what you're putting out and,
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and for people that are either going through divorce or
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considering divorce to be able to look back and, and
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not from a place of blame and shame or anything,
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but just like information, you know, clarity.
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Clarity it's data, right? Like, so this thing happened to
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me and it's not because I was a bad person.
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It's not because I didn't deserve something different. And I
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went through a lot of years saying that no one
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promises you happiness. Like when people would say to me, oh,
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you deserve to be happy. And my response was like,
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who says? That was my initial response. Like who says
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you deserve to be happy? Like this life happens and
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we live the life that we're given. We choose how
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to show up in that life. And I think that's
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where the joy can come and the reconnection is like,
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we need to choose to find the love within us
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that we can then release. And then that becomes attraction.
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Yes.
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There are no guarantees.
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Right.
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Right.
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It's true. There are no guarantees. And it's like you said,
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you know, I write about this in my book, the
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moment where I was in a kind of a women's initiation,
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personal growth, deeply spiritual earth-based work that I did when
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I was 32, 33. And we had just completed a
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full day and I was looking across the room and
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there's all these beautiful women that, you know, all of
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us were just like glowing from the work that we
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had done. But I was watching these women and they
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were like cozy and connecting and loving on each other,
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just in such a, sweet, relaxed way. And I just
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heard myself say, that's for them, not me. And the
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point is, I heard it for the first time. It's
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not that I didn't know that I believed that because
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it wasn't a new thought. I was like, wow, I've
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heard a lot. But then I actually heard myself say it.
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And then that's when I realized, oh my gosh, I
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actually believe that. And where is that going to get
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me in life? Nowhere. Yeah.
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Yeah, nowhere. And so I have this Jewish spirituality practice
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that's part of who I am and it's part of
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my core. And the golden rule, as we call it,
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love your neighbor as yourself. There is an implication in
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there that you need to love yourself first. Because how
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can you love your neighbor if you don't love yourself?
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And I don't think people go there. I don't think
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people get that rule. that instruction. I won't call it
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a rule. It's an instruction because we need to learn
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how to love ourselves. And I think that's what your
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work does. Yeah.
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I see it as an invitation. I love the word instruction.
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And because of the culture that we're in, people typically,
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and I know I've been guilty of it myself, just
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leap over that implication and they hear, And I heard
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love my neighbor.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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Don't love myself. Love my neighbor.
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Yeah. Very different. And the thing is, you know, what
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I go to, if we don't love ourselves, then whatever
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we can't, we can't, you know, we could put energy
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on our neighbor, but it's not love.
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Right.
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And so that's, that's a big thing. But we're actually
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already halfway. So, Wow. Let's take a quick break and
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we will be back after a word from our sponsor
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with our wonderful guest, Robin Vogel. And we'll be back.
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Thank you.
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And we're back with Robin Vogel, author of Come Back
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to Love. Um, Robin, we didn't talk all about your background,
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but you are a therapist and you have a lot
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of professional credentials. Um, I'm wondering, like, I know your backstory.
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We know a little bit about your backstory, but what
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led you to build your program and what are the
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four gates?
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Two questions.
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Yes, it's two questions.
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I love two questions at the same time because that's
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how my brain works. What led me to build my
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program is the desire to support others in not experiencing
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what I experienced. And it became clear at some point
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as I was divorcing my co-parent that I had a
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lot of experience and a lot of skill in order
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to bring that into the world. He was actually the
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one who said, you know, you really should bring this
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into your work. Like, you're a rock star. And I
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was like, wow, you're right.
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Nice.
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Yeah, totally nice. I give him credit always. Um, and so, yeah,
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so I, you know, took that on and, and I
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want to give back what I didn't have and what
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I didn't experience. And so my book come back to
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love after 20 years of working. I mean, I don't
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look at, but I'm 60 for anybody that's watching us
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live or watching the replay, the recording, um, you know,
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after 20 20, more than 20 years of doing this work,
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I started to feel into legacy.
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Okay.
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And I also have always wanted to, I've been writing
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books for the last 15 years. It's just, none of
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them actually got finished. Um, Which is about the book.
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But the part about the four gates came right before
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the book because I started to think like, what am
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I actually really doing? And I was walking down a path.
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I was going to a wedding of two people that
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met in one of my workshops and fell in love
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over the course of several workshops that they took with me.
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And I was invited to the wedding and I was
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walking down the path. And I just thought I was
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talking with somebody as we were walking together. And I
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would just sort of all came to me that what
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I'm bringing to people is is sort of laying out
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the red carpet of love. And what do we do
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on that path, on that red carpet? And I started
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to think about the different aspects of the work. Obviously,
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I'm a psychotherapist. We live in the United States. Emotional
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work is prime time. And so we spend a lot
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of time in the emotional realm. That's gate one. Okay.
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That's infused with internal family systems work and EMDR and
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trauma-based work, all the things that I've been studying over
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many years. Extremely effective. The goal is to find the obstacles,
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the things that are blocking your heart from love. That's
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the goal.
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Okay.
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At gate two, as you're walking down the path, Gate
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two has to do with what are the limiting beliefs
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that have been blocking you? Just like the example I
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just gave, this limiting belief I had been living with,
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but wasn't aware of that I was living with it
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on a truly conscious level. It wasn't an unfamiliar thought,
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but I wasn't giving it attention until that moment when
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I was like, it sort of, you know, highlighted itself
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in a big way. But there's, there's, so there's thoughts
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like that. And then there's really the unconscious thoughts that
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are living behind the scenes underneath everything that are running lives,
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making decisions that are wreaking havoc on people's lives. Because
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like we just said, if you don't really believe in yourself,
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you're going to attract all different experiences that prove that
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to be true.
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Right. So I just want to share that when you're
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talking about limiting beliefs, we may not understand the term
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limiting beliefs, but One thing that I know is common
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for strong women and for all women is that we
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think we're too much. People tell us we're too much. Yes.
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And so then we make ourselves smaller and then we're
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not actually being authentic to ourselves. And so think about
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if we make ourselves smaller to become attractive to a
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certain person and then we are with them. We're going
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to have to break out of that small box. And
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so now our real self comes through and maybe they
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didn't expect that. And there's so much that's part of
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that story. But I don't want to be too intimidating.
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That's like a message that I used to get all
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the time. And it made it hard to really honor
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my own gifts. And I'm sure that that's something that
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comes up a lot with people in your workshops. It's like,
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if we had to give ourselves away in order to
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feel like we were valuable, how do we come back?
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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So there's very, very potent work. Thank you for giving
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a specific example that resonates with our audience today. There's very, again,
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potent science-based work that has to do with rewiring the brain.
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And we hear about it in lots of places in
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the world these days. The work that I do is
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work that healed me about six, seven years ago when
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I had some things that were very, very stuck in
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my body and my mind. And nothing short of a miracle.
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And I was like, I'm including this because we really
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can't only do the emotional work because those beliefs will
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derail We can only get so far by doing the
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emotional work. So the piece of working with the mind
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at gate two goes hand in hand with gate one
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and allows us to actually move forward in our lives
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and heal. And then gates three and four address the
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other aspects that are a little broader. Well, especially gate three,
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we look at the soul's journey and what are the lessons?
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Why do we come this lifetime? What are the lessons
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that we decided to take on? That's my belief that
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we chose to take these on. and that they're gifts.
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And so there's a journey that I take my, my
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clients on. And if you read the book, you can,
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you can go on it somewhat yourself. That's gate three
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and gate four is about the body and befriending the body,
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including the body and our decisions and including the body
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in our lives. And, you know, love yourself, love your
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neighbor as you love yourself. It's like our bodies get,
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get sequestered off. And our bodies have, the wisdom and
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the impulses and the intuition and the guidance. And so
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that's just including the body and all the things that
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we do to heal and come back to love with ourselves.
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That's, it's so beautiful. It's really so powerful. You know, like,
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and I think I wanted to share with you that,
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you know, with my Jewish education, when I got my master's,
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I learned about this rabbi from the, 11th century Spain
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called Rabbi Bahya ibn Pakuda. And he wrote a book
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called Duties of the Heart. And it had 12 gates.
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And yes. And so when you talk about the gates,
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I'm thinking about Bahya and the fact that, you know,
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he believed that the people of his time became disconnected
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from their soul. And that they needed to reinforce their
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connection with their soul. And there were concrete steps and
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gates to go through.
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Yes.
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And that philosophy I really took to heart because it
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was like the distinction between our souls and our bodies.
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But as you say, the braiding of them together and
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so much informs the other. Like if our bodies aren't well,
405
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:33.220
then our spirit is down. But when our spirit isn't well,
406
00:26:33.259 --> 00:26:37.160
then our bodies are down. So how do we learn
407
00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:40.940
to lift them up and walk through these gates? And
408
00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:43.680
so like, that's what has been coming up for me.
409
00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:45.589
You know, when I was reading your book, when I
410
00:26:45.609 --> 00:26:49.210
was reading that book, it's like, pow. So thank you.
411
00:26:49.390 --> 00:26:52.730
Yeah. Beautiful, beautiful. I love that. It makes me feel like,
412
00:26:53.450 --> 00:26:55.529
you know, the word gates is the word that came
413
00:26:55.609 --> 00:26:57.789
to me and it feels very ancient now that you
414
00:26:57.809 --> 00:26:59.910
put that piece in. Yeah.
415
00:26:59.930 --> 00:27:03.089
Yeah. But it is. And I think that all of
416
00:27:03.109 --> 00:27:10.299
our learning comes like organically from lived experiences, not just
417
00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:13.920
of us, but of the people who came before us. And,
418
00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:18.720
you know, when we talk about collective memory or traumas
419
00:27:18.779 --> 00:27:22.279
that are familial traumas that happened before in our family,
420
00:27:22.859 --> 00:27:27.369
it's about, you know, we are in a link. You know,
421
00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:31.839
our gates are connected to other people's gates. And that's,
422
00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:35.140
you know, to me, all of this is really, you know,
423
00:27:35.309 --> 00:27:39.609
opening up different aspects of what it means to come
424
00:27:39.650 --> 00:27:41.470
back to love. How do we find ourselves?
425
00:27:42.109 --> 00:27:44.369
Right. Exactly. Yes.
426
00:27:45.089 --> 00:27:45.289
Yeah.
427
00:27:45.329 --> 00:27:48.329
Some people ask like, and you just answered it. A
428
00:27:48.369 --> 00:27:50.750
lot of people ask like, what do you mean come
429
00:27:50.789 --> 00:27:53.529
back to love? Like even, you know, workshop participants just
430
00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.470
recently asked like, well, what do you mean? What are
431
00:27:56.490 --> 00:28:00.720
we coming back to? And yeah. you know, back to ourselves,
432
00:28:00.779 --> 00:28:04.619
back to our divine selves, like where we are at
433
00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:13.880
the core is divine and God. And we forget, as
434
00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:17.750
you just said, we forget our soul. We disconnect from
435
00:28:17.829 --> 00:28:20.710
our soul, from our bodies. And so all of it
436
00:28:20.750 --> 00:28:25.529
for me is about remembering and creating spaces where people
437
00:28:26.430 --> 00:28:27.029
can remember.
438
00:28:27.049 --> 00:28:28.970
I love that.
439
00:28:29.380 --> 00:28:29.630
Yeah.
440
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:33.579
And I think that it's really challenging for people to
441
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.460
remember because it feels vulnerable to go back to an
442
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:42.519
earlier space, to an earlier iteration of yourself. It feels
443
00:28:42.579 --> 00:28:48.970
really vulnerable. Who was I before I was six, right?
444
00:28:49.210 --> 00:28:52.109
Like everything changed in your life when you were six, really.
445
00:28:52.130 --> 00:28:56.230
And it just, you didn't know it was changing until
446
00:28:56.269 --> 00:28:59.579
you were 10. when you had this traumatic loss, this break.
447
00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:00.420
Right.
448
00:29:00.940 --> 00:29:05.539
But, you know, there was probably a lightheartedness in you
449
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:10.440
as a child that is the light that shines out now.
450
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.849
And it was, it didn't know where to go, right?
451
00:29:16.309 --> 00:29:18.450
And many of us have those experiences.
452
00:29:19.210 --> 00:29:19.789
Mm-hmm.
453
00:29:20.430 --> 00:29:24.009
So I feel like your work uncovers the light in
454
00:29:24.069 --> 00:29:25.009
all of us. Mm-hmm.
455
00:29:25.680 --> 00:29:27.940
Thank you. I always get teary when we connect.
456
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:28.960
I know.
457
00:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.680
Today is no different. Thank you.
458
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:40.230
No, you're bringing so much into the world. That's I
459
00:29:40.450 --> 00:29:42.400
was like, you must come on. You must come on
460
00:29:42.420 --> 00:29:48.039
because we need to share these conversations because they're so big. And, and,
461
00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:51.480
you know, when you find people in the world that
462
00:29:51.619 --> 00:29:57.759
you have that resonance with, you, you need to recognize it. And,
463
00:29:57.940 --> 00:30:01.710
you know, we, We get afraid of like, can I
464
00:30:01.769 --> 00:30:04.109
reach out? What are they going to think of me?
465
00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:06.690
Like maybe they're not feeling the same thing I'm feeling.
466
00:30:06.730 --> 00:30:10.470
And again, that's about coming back to love because like,
467
00:30:11.269 --> 00:30:13.849
where do we find confidence? We need to practice it.
468
00:30:14.410 --> 00:30:14.869
Yes.
469
00:30:15.210 --> 00:30:18.069
To practice it. Confidence is a practice.
470
00:30:18.650 --> 00:30:19.089
Yes.
471
00:30:20.009 --> 00:30:23.630
And I'm not taking ownership of that one. I actually
472
00:30:23.670 --> 00:30:28.519
heard that on Mel Robbins. So thank you, Mel. But,
473
00:30:28.579 --> 00:30:32.720
you know, who is wise? One who learns from all.
474
00:30:33.180 --> 00:30:34.900
And like everyone can be your teacher.
475
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:35.900
Yes.
476
00:30:35.920 --> 00:30:38.680
And that's another powerful thing.
477
00:30:39.329 --> 00:30:42.200
Yes, a whole other episode. But I want to emphasize
478
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:44.630
what you said because it is so important. I mean,
479
00:30:44.690 --> 00:30:47.890
confidence is because we build a skill and we get
480
00:30:47.930 --> 00:30:51.289
good at it. And no matter who says it, like
481
00:30:51.630 --> 00:30:57.470
we've got that definition. Yeah. And the practice of loving...
482
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:06.380
yourself as a verb is vital. The practice of noticing
483
00:31:06.420 --> 00:31:11.119
when something gets in the way and having a tool
484
00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:13.880
because things get in the way we fear shows up,
485
00:31:14.299 --> 00:31:17.160
you know, like you said, you know, like you reflected
486
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:19.509
in me, you know, I had all this armor because
487
00:31:19.549 --> 00:31:22.750
I was so afraid that people were going to leave
488
00:31:23.410 --> 00:31:27.960
like my mother, like other people left. Um, And so,
489
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:30.819
you know, having the right tools so that when that
490
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.529
comes up, you know what to do. That's a practice.
491
00:31:34.130 --> 00:31:34.470
Yeah.
492
00:31:35.069 --> 00:31:39.150
And then loving others is a practice. It's all just
493
00:31:39.170 --> 00:31:41.869
what you said. It's a practice that we get to
494
00:31:41.910 --> 00:31:46.069
learn and we get to strengthen that muscle over time. Yeah.
495
00:31:46.549 --> 00:31:49.079
But we have to like, we have to have the
496
00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:53.660
courage to even begin the practice, right? We can say,
497
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:56.549
because sometimes you get too close. You feel like, Like
498
00:31:56.829 --> 00:31:59.710
if we were different people and we connected and like
499
00:32:00.089 --> 00:32:02.430
for some reason we teared up every time we were
500
00:32:02.470 --> 00:32:05.319
near each other, we might choose not to be near
501
00:32:05.380 --> 00:32:08.880
each other, right? We might not be brave enough to
502
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.759
let the vulnerability come out. Right. And I think with
503
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:15.740
some people that happens. And like even with me and
504
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:19.339
some people that would happen because you don't feel safe.
505
00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:23.680
Like and what does it take to feel safe? Yeah.
506
00:32:23.819 --> 00:32:26.869
So we just have a few minutes left. I would
507
00:32:26.950 --> 00:32:30.630
love for you to talk about your retreats and your workshops. And,
508
00:32:31.150 --> 00:32:33.329
and I know it's just a few minutes, but. Sure.
509
00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:39.660
Every year I take a group to Costa Rica and
510
00:32:39.819 --> 00:32:42.700
other really beautiful places. Last year we were in Italy.
511
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:46.640
This year we're back in Costa Rica, December 27th, and
512
00:32:46.700 --> 00:32:50.619
we've got an eight day retreat crossing into the new year.
513
00:32:51.619 --> 00:32:54.220
And this is where we get to immerse ourselves into
514
00:32:54.269 --> 00:32:57.950
this work of really looking at the hidden places or
515
00:32:57.990 --> 00:33:01.950
the obvious places that have armor and are protecting from love.
516
00:33:02.690 --> 00:33:05.029
And we do the work in a gentle way, in
517
00:33:05.069 --> 00:33:11.240
a beautiful location, lush, lush, lush Costa Rica. Yeah. Hundreds
518
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:15.299
of hummingbirds of all different colors and the river. It's
519
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:16.039
just amazing.
520
00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:19.089
But what I love about it also is that we,
521
00:33:20.450 --> 00:33:23.549
we've mentioned God, we talked about the divine, and some
522
00:33:23.589 --> 00:33:27.759
people struggle with the idea of God. And for me,
523
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:33.759
being in a space in nature that is so grand
524
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:36.200
helps me feel God.
525
00:33:36.700 --> 00:33:37.099
Yes.
526
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:42.619
That's greater than ourselves. And so to be in that space,
527
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:47.309
we're creating a setting that gives us a better opportunity
528
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:49.329
to access love.
529
00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:54.940
A hundred percent what you said. Yes. Yes. A hundred percent.
530
00:33:54.980 --> 00:33:56.660
I don't even need to repeat it. Being in that
531
00:33:56.700 --> 00:34:01.220
location is a major contribution to the healing and the
532
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:04.299
growth and the play and the fun and the relaxation.
533
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.640
I mean, all of those things, when you spend eight
534
00:34:06.660 --> 00:34:13.610
days in community in Costa Rica, you experience. So that's happening. Great.
535
00:34:13.619 --> 00:34:16.409
Connect to love.com is my email address. So thank you
536
00:34:16.429 --> 00:34:19.019
for putting it up there. You can find information about
537
00:34:19.039 --> 00:34:23.380
the retreat there. And you asked me about my book.
538
00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:25.860
Maybe that was the next piece. And there it is
539
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:28.980
on Amazon. You can look up Robin Vogel, come back
540
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.360
to love and you'll find it. And thank you in
541
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.820
advance for listening and being present.
542
00:34:37.300 --> 00:34:40.780
Of course. It's a wonderful book. So I I've read
543
00:34:40.860 --> 00:34:42.719
it and I'm going to read it again because I
544
00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:44.980
think that you really need to sit with the gates
545
00:34:45.159 --> 00:34:49.880
and understand them and, walk through them. Sometimes you want
546
00:34:49.900 --> 00:34:51.659
to read it and then you need to go back
547
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:55.099
to actually do the practice. Like what is the practice?
548
00:34:55.219 --> 00:34:58.940
And now I'll do the practice. So that's how.
549
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.400
I- There's a lot of exercises in there. So there's
550
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.400
a lot of opportunity to really do your own personal
551
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:06.019
growth work, which was my intention.
552
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:10.199
Yeah. Which is wonderful. So thank you so much, Robin.
553
00:35:10.389 --> 00:35:12.719
It was so great having you. This is such a
554
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:17.199
powerful conversation and I want to thank you, my audience,
555
00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:20.599
for listening to the Divorce Clarity Studio. If you like
556
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:24.199
what you've heard, please subscribe, like, and follow us. And
557
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:28.960
if someone you know could benefit from this episode, please share. Remember,
558
00:35:28.980 --> 00:35:35.389
you're not alone. And you can find me at www.lzlcoaching.com.
559
00:35:35.989 --> 00:35:39.150
So see you next time on the Divorce Clarity Studio.
560
00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:47.440
You're listening to WGSN-DB, Going Solo Network, Singles Talk Radio Channel,
561
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:50.900
where we take a lighthearted and candid approach to discussions
562
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.219
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563
00:35:55.530 --> 00:35:58.829
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564
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