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00:00:02.640Good morning, good evening, uh good afternoon.
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00:00:05.519This is a podcast Go Global, Personal Braining Beyond Borders.
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00:00:15.839My name is Tatiana Kohl, and in our podcast I meet with three experts from a different part of the world and discuss a topic about personal brain, about uh successful uh career building.
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00:00:29.359And today I uh meet this one uh wonderful expert from outside, and the person who helps the other experts become more visible and build their personal employer, uh personal brand and attract uh more clients, etc.
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00:00:30.640Hi Emily.
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00:00:31.920Hi, good to see you.
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00:00:33.520Thanks for having me, Tatiana.
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00:00:39.039Yeah, Emily, I remember you as a uh a founder of Truth Work.
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00:00:45.359It's for me, it's a really a great platform for the experts uh from a different part of the world.
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00:00:51.840So before we start in our conversation about personal brand, could you give a uh short explanation about this platform?
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00:01:04.480Because I think all the experts who are interested to track for clients, who are interested to connect with colleagues uh globally, who are interested to promote their personal branding globally, and also could participate in your platform.
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00:01:06.159Could you share a little bit more about it?
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00:01:07.359Yeah, sure.
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00:01:08.799Sure, I'd love to.
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00:01:18.959So TruthWorks is indeed a platform, a marketplace for experts all over the world and clients to connect with their services and skills.
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00:01:23.120We exclusively work with experts who are in the people and culture space.
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00:01:34.079So that's everything from communications, indeed, personal branding for leadership, employer brand, changecoms, DEI, uh traditional sort of HRBP, etc.
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00:01:38.560So we work across the full spectrum of people and culture breeds.
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00:01:40.959And every expert is independent.
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00:02:01.519They can come on the platform and they can be found by clients, but we also run a community for hundreds of experts around the world, sharing knowledge, sharing insights, sharing ideas, currently talking about everything from sort of AI governance to building a personal brand to feeling insecure about going after certain opportunities to getting clients to say yes.
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00:02:09.360All sorts of topics we cover, and it's nice to be able to connect everyone around the world in this space.
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00:02:19.439And we could really recommend to the professionals to join the platform, at least for the great, really great community.
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00:02:23.919I know a lot of people who participate, uh who are participating in this community.
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00:02:40.639I know what we are very active in Europe and different cities, and uh I know what you built this platform, also based on your personal brand, because your personal brand is uh really so strong, it helps you to attract the people now become a core uh of the community.
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00:02:45.280From your perspective, how could you assess what is your personal branding?
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00:02:50.879That is the role of your personal brand in building this community, in building these projects.
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00:02:57.599Uh, did it really help you as I sort of outside or in the how if yes to have how?
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00:02:58.879So could you share that?
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00:03:06.159It's always funny to me this expression of personal brand or this sort of phrase that we use, personal brand.
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00:03:19.120And I think it's it's sort of a buzzword for something which is inherently human and natural, which is just being a people person, being someone who cares about creating trust through their reputation.
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00:03:21.199And I think people trust people, right?
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00:03:30.560We all inherently trust, you know, someone we see recommending a service or a product more than we trust that brand right away.
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00:03:44.000Um, we trust the people that represent that brand, we trust, we trust faces, we trust names, and we trust people who share views similar to ours or share something about themselves as well and make themselves a person that you can get to know.
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00:03:47.840Um so I've always sort of believed in relationships.
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00:04:01.120I guess personal branding is taking that to another level and building it intentionally, building it online, building it kind of in the public eye, which is a bit more unnerving, I think, for a lot of people and where that leap feels big.
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00:04:16.160But actually, if you're the kind of person that just tries to leave a good impression wherever you are, tries to add value in a room, then all that personal branding is, especially on a platform like LinkedIn, is just doing that at scale and trying to do that in a memorable way that that adds value.
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00:04:18.800So I always started from that position.
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00:04:28.720I never set out to build a personal brand, but I always wanted people to hear what I had to say and hope that it would be useful to some people.
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00:04:30.800I always wanted to start conversations.
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00:04:44.879And what better place to do that than in a big global room where you get access to leaders and thought leaders and business owners at a scale that you're not getting usually when you're sat in your home office or you know, you're going to work every day.
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00:04:49.600You don't get that exposure unless you're flying to global conferences every week.
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00:04:57.920So, what really struck me when I first started using LinkedIn, which is sort of my platform that I build my personal brand on, was wow, I have access to all these people.
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00:05:00.000I can see what Richard Branson's posting.
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00:05:05.600I can see, you know, and it doesn't matter if those people talk back to you or not, you're still able to learn from them.
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00:05:10.000And so I thought, what better place to explore and experiment?
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00:05:12.560I absolutely agree.
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00:05:20.399What personal branding is just a way for developing uh your your business based on a connection with other people.
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00:05:25.839So I know what you uh really have a very huge network in a professional community.
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00:05:47.519What helps, what is really helps you to build your network, to develop your network, to to really to get recommendations from other people, to connect with uh others from owners, founders, as you mentioned, for different different experts globally, and all what you do globally, not only in one particular country, but in a different country, different continents.
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00:05:49.519What is what helps you?
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00:05:59.279Maybe what is uh your strategy, maybe what maybe some some tips could it could give to people who want to really be connected with the professional level.
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00:06:00.480Yeah, of course.
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00:06:07.600Well, first of all, I think there are global communities, pockets of global communities happening everywhere, you just have to look for them.
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00:06:17.920I think increasingly there are communities that are a bit underground because I think some of us have got bored of the kind of open, I guess the gameplay of of being on LinkedIn.
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00:06:26.240So I'm also on a lot of WhatsApp groups, a lot of communities on circle, like the one that we've built, which is where we built Truth Work, to be more of a closed community.
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00:06:29.839That doesn't mean closed in terms of people can't enter it.
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00:06:46.639It more means that you create a circle, you create a space where there's a bit more of an intimate conversation going on because sometimes it feels like it's difficult to have some of the more vulnerable conversations out in public, especially when people feel like they have to constantly be building a certain image of themselves.
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00:06:54.160I also see more people sort of writing on Substack and platforms like that where they can be maybe more open behind a gate.
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00:06:59.199So I do think that there are that there are limits to what people are happy to share publicly.
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00:07:04.000I do also think that that network is there for you to seek out and they do exist.
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00:07:14.720And I would just say ask friends what networks they're in and get introductions and just start joining those communities of conversation because I think that's where a lot of magic is happening.
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00:07:16.720People get introduced to other people.
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00:07:18.879A lot of my network have always been global.
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00:07:21.680I guess I started out working in global companies.
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00:07:27.680What was interesting for me was when I worked in in booking.com, of course, they have offices all around the world.
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00:07:33.279A lot of my former colleagues then went on to work elsewhere or work in different markets.
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00:07:37.519Also, because I was running employer brand, I got to support a lot of those markets.
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00:07:42.079So I was quite active in outreach, in meeting colleagues from around the world.
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00:07:46.879I traveled quite a lot with booking and I really made sure to try and retain those connections.
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00:07:52.639A lot of them are people who've helped me in my business since, or I've been able to help them, or I've recommended them for panels.
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00:08:02.560So I think staying in contact with people, especially when you leave that last corporate job that I guess you're doing, is really critical because people go on to have other careers and other roles.
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00:08:06.160And I like to think of network as a multiplier as well.
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00:08:11.199So you have your circle, but then every single person in your circle has their own circle.
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00:08:22.240So if you start to think about that multiplying effect, you realize actually you have access by third or second, you know, second, third or first degree to so many people around the world.
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00:08:28.959You just have to ask those questions and get those introductions and start looking at who your um who your followers follow.
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00:08:36.159So I'll look at someone, for example, that I admire on LinkedIn and I'll be interested to see who they follow, who they're connected with, start following those people.
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00:08:40.080You have to kind of actively expand those circles yourself as well.
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00:08:44.240And then if I meet people anywhere, I'm always adding them on LinkedIn.
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00:08:45.759I invite them to add me on LinkedIn.
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00:08:57.840If I do a talk, I will put links to my YouTube that we have with Truthworks, obviously to the platform, to LinkedIn, to anywhere that I can connect with them afterwards because I want to retain that connection.
00:08:58.080 -->
00:09:03.600And often after you've spoken at an event, people want to come and talk to you afterwards because of your ideas.
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00:09:12.240They want to have a conversation, they want to pick up on something you said, but not everyone gets the opportunity, or not everyone is brave enough to come up to a speaker after an event.
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00:09:25.440So I'll always say, DM me, and I always try and respond and make a deeper connection with people who've seen me speak because they feel like they've met you then and you feel like you've met them and you've created that longer lasting connection.
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00:09:27.679Um so I always try and make time for that.
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00:09:32.879I can't now answer some of the DMs that I get, but I try to.
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00:09:36.080I try to, and I try to also help people if I can.
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00:09:40.720Um it's not always possible everyone wants to have a 30-minute conversation or pick your brains.
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00:09:46.799And I think as a female founder in particular, you have to be quite strict as well about the free brain picks.
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00:09:54.159I think people think women are naturally more generous to give that time and that, you know, you're a mean girl or you're not a nice person if you don't.
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00:10:02.399But the reality is we work a four-day week, we have kids, we have a scale up, it's really stressful and hectic, and we don't have any hours in the day.
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00:10:03.840You know, we we work in the evenings.
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00:10:10.080So my partner and I are always trying to be me mindful of making connections, but also protecting our MPs a little bit as well.
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00:10:12.159Most people understand that, some don't.
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00:10:15.200Absolutely.
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00:10:21.679I want to uh absolutely mentioned in the beginning also people work with other people.
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00:10:28.960And it's really important to build our reputation, build on our personality, uh the authenticity, and so on.
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00:10:40.240And I have s have two interesting questions from my network, from your network, who want to ask you during the RA conversation, and they want to use these two uh the wonderful questions.
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00:10:47.759And you mentioned about you have a uh big connections, you a well-known person for some communities, people know you.
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00:10:59.120So when uh sometimes people uh they become to uh the personal become grow, grow, grow, grow, and in some situation you uh need to find the right balance and that right extra questions.
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00:11:05.840And uh, how do you measure authentic usability, authentic usability versus vanity metrics?
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00:11:15.840So, what it's really means for your visibility for your brand, for your business, or it's just uh vanitarism to say interesting questions.
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00:11:17.600It's a great question.
00:11:17.679 -->
00:11:27.279I think your question is how much do you write for yourself and be authentic, and how much do you need to be always driving traffic to your business and converting?
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00:11:28.960And I think that's the question, right?
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00:11:30.960What's the balance between the two?
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00:11:34.799Yeah, I think it's it's it's this I think it's about this.
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00:11:45.360So it's because in some situations people uh look to other people who are everywhere and think it's maybe is it about sovereignty or it's about real business needs?
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00:11:48.720So what Yeah, I understand your answer about this question.
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00:11:49.759I understand.
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00:11:52.000I don't think I've fully cracked that yet.
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00:12:02.639And actually, I was writing about this this week because I was thinking LinkedIn asks you a question, right, which has been there since the dawn of time, I think, which is what do you want to talk about today?
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00:12:06.240And for me, that's such a it's almost like your diary, right?
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00:12:07.759It's just what's on your mind.
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00:12:17.200But it's a bit of a misleading question because they don't necessarily want to know what my stream of you know consciousness today or what I want to talk about to the ether.
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00:12:26.559Really, you know, the way LinkedIn works is what's of interest to your community, what's gonna get shared, what's clickbait, what's gonna mention the buzzwords that are trending this week.
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00:12:30.159They don't really want you to write necessarily about what you want to talk about.
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00:12:32.559So there is a there is a tension there.
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00:12:38.480And recently, I think along with other people, I've felt that tension of the algorithm being really cruel.
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00:12:46.399I think sometimes, you know, realizing that you've written something really thoughtful or you think is high value or really interesting and it doesn't hit.
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00:12:54.399I guess I'm trying to remain true to enjoying LinkedIn because I don't want it to be a chore.
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00:13:09.120I want it to be something I enjoy, and what I'm enjoying usually is when something I write starts a debate with other people or it gets poor thinking, and the comments you can feel in the comments that it's captured people's attention for the right reasons.
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00:13:15.279They're not just repeating what you've said because they're trying to build their own, they're trying to feed their own algorithm rhythm.
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00:13:22.000They are genuinely commenting because they're surprised or angry or confused or they want to know more or it sparked something.
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00:13:34.799And like those are usually the posts that do really well, but they're also the ones where I get excited because I think, gosh, I've shared something that made someone think, or I've shared something that really got a valuable debate going or a valuable conversation going.
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00:13:47.600And I know that LinkedIn still values that, so I try and stay true to writing things that I that I think are cutting edge or are something that I know I've heard a lot of people talking about.
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00:13:54.159One of the advantages I have now, I guess, is being in this community of amazing independent HR experts from around the world.
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00:13:59.919There are such interesting conversations going on there in that community that I instantly get inspired.
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00:14:03.919You know, it it's things that have come up in the community this week that have got me thinking.
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00:14:10.240Um, and I'm much more switched on to, I guess, what what people are thinking, what they're feeling, than maybe I was.
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00:14:12.159Before it was probably just things that were in my head.
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00:14:13.840So I think that's been a benefit.
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00:14:19.120I always try and be authentic, and I I feel like people who follow me can feel when I'm not.
00:14:19.279 -->
00:14:31.919The company name TruthWorks came inherently from the idea that we wanted to build a business that was was built on truth and built on being candid, both with clients, with ourselves, with the market.
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00:14:37.840And we've done some pretty bold things that people don't always love, but they do remember us for them.
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00:14:56.799Um so, for example, when we were starting out, we were really frustrated with the the narrative around investment in women um and female founded businesses, which I think is about 0.1% or something ridiculous, depending on which market you're looking at, but it's not pretty wherever you look, uh, especially all female teams, which we are female-founded teams.
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00:15:09.120And we did a campaign called Dressed for the S, which was us dressing like what the typical founder looks like, which, well, you can look it up for yourself, which really flew, really went viral.
00:15:09.279 -->
00:15:14.720I think that post at last count was on like 150,000 impressions with no media budget.
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00:15:16.240So things can really fly.
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00:15:18.960They got picked up by the press, you know, it really got talked about.
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00:15:31.120I think sometimes when you do something bold, it really stands out because I think, as we've seen from the AI slop tagging on LinkedIn, it is becoming a generic sea of sameness.
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00:15:37.120So, in our in a very long-winded answer to your previous question, I think authenticity will always win out.
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00:15:39.039I think the algorithm will come and go.
00:15:39.279 -->
00:15:43.840I think people see who you are and they follow you because of who you are, and they want to see more of that.
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00:15:46.000That's why they're following you in the first place.
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00:15:50.240I think learning what resonates with people is more important than the vanity metrics.
00:15:50.399 -->
00:15:57.440I have slightly reframed what I talk about now because I know my audience is changing because of our business.
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00:16:08.000So I now have a lot more freelancers following me, a lot more people who are independent practitioners, but also clients who are looking for different models and different ways of working and something a bit disruptive in the industry.
00:16:08.159 -->
00:16:15.679So, whereas before I had a big employer brand crowd follow me, and then maybe more of an HR crowd following me, I also have a big freelance following now.
00:16:15.759 -->
00:16:20.720So I'm also conscious of tailoring my content to my audience and thinking, what's going to help them?
00:16:20.799 -->
00:16:22.480What did I learn when I was freelancing?
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00:16:27.200What's on freelancers' mind in a slow August where they're worrying about their pipeline?
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00:16:29.120You know, things that would genuinely help.
00:16:29.200 -->
00:16:31.600But I think that also helps tie back to your product.
00:16:31.679 -->
00:16:33.120You know, why do you do what you do?
00:16:33.440 -->
00:16:40.240How can you do what you do at scale and how can you support people through your content that are following you because of what you do as a business?
00:16:41.200 -->
00:16:47.360Emily, uh may ask you also about your maybe your recommendation because you mentioned about your businesses.
00:16:47.600 -->
00:16:53.600It's really you uh now we are working with a lot of uh independent professionals uh globally.
00:16:53.759 -->
00:16:55.840And uh what recommendation could you give?
00:16:55.919 -->
00:17:01.279It's about the connection, it's it's my question is about connection between your personal branding, your visibility.
00:17:01.679 -->
00:17:06.000Because you could have a lot of visibility, a lot of connection with one side, and your business results.
00:17:06.079 -->
00:17:13.119So, how to convert your personal brand, your visibility, your network into a real business case.
00:17:13.440 -->
00:17:15.440Yeah, maybe could you share your ideas?
00:17:16.400 -->
00:17:22.480I think sometimes people can share their ideas without pushing it to a conclusion.
00:17:22.640 -->
00:17:27.920So I think if people are liking what you're sharing, you have to think about cross-selling.
00:17:28.000 -->
00:17:32.559You have to think about smartly bringing into play what it is you do.
00:17:32.720 -->
00:17:38.799So, for example, if you're talking about trust in a business, that's amazing as a topic, it's so interesting.
00:17:39.039 -->
00:17:42.000But how do you specifically build that in a business?
00:17:42.160 -->
00:17:43.599How do you build that with clients?
00:17:43.759 -->
00:17:48.559What's an example you can share of how you built that when you were in-house and it changed the game, you know?
00:17:48.799 -->
00:17:52.880So I think just remembering that you're also trying to sell is also helpful.
00:17:53.119 -->
00:17:58.640But I think making that sale authentic as well, offer something of value and then offer to do more of it.
00:17:58.799 -->
00:18:04.400So, for example, we have people in the community who offer to do sessions for free for the community often.
00:18:04.640 -->
00:18:10.160And I always say, look, I don't mind if you want to offer more paid time on this topic.
00:18:10.240 -->
00:18:13.599You know, we have people who are coaches, for example, who want to also coach freelancers.
00:18:13.680 -->
00:18:25.519And I said, Well, I don't think it goes down well if you hard sell in a community session that's supposed to be for mutual, for the generosity of the community, uh, for the the benefit of the community.
00:18:25.839 -->
00:18:29.279But at the end, there will definitely be people who are interested in hearing more.
00:18:29.359 -->
00:18:37.680So of course you should naturally say, um, if you want to find out more information, or I've got this resource, or you can do this course with me, of course, that's completely normal.
00:18:37.920 -->
00:18:46.000I think maybe sometimes people feel uncomfortable with the sell if they're doing something that is purely authentic or purely value add.
00:18:46.160 -->
00:18:52.880And I don't think we should ever be uncomfortable with the cell because remember, if what you're selling is good, it helps someone.
00:18:53.039 -->
00:18:54.960You're not asking for money for nothing.
00:18:55.200 -->
00:19:01.119You are genuinely saying, if you found this useful, you will find this course or working with me even more useful.
00:19:01.200 -->
00:19:03.200And we can continue the conversation.
00:19:03.359 -->
00:19:06.079Um and I'd love to book a you know a formal session with you.
00:19:06.240 -->
00:19:08.079Can I put together a scope of work for you?
00:19:08.240 -->
00:19:24.640I think all of that upselling shouldn't be uncomfortable if the way you're doing it is coming from a genuine place of wanting to help, and if it's also coming from a genuine place of having listened to your connections, having read a comment and saying, look, actually, I've done this before with another business.
00:19:24.720 -->
00:19:26.720I'd love to chat to you about it on the side.
00:19:26.880 -->
00:19:28.960Um, but it is a two-way dialogue.
00:19:29.200 -->
00:19:35.920I think what a lot of freelancers don't realize straight away is how long it can take to build up to convert new business.
00:19:36.160 -->
00:19:42.240I think they think it's something that happens overnight, especially people who've left big corporate jobs or jobs with a big brand.
00:19:42.400 -->
00:19:49.680I think they leave and they think being ex-Nike or being ex Netflix or being ex is gonna instantly open a door for them.
00:19:49.839 -->
00:19:51.279And it does to an extent.
00:19:51.440 -->
00:19:53.440Certainly being ex-booking helped me.
00:19:53.680 -->
00:19:57.839At the same time, people don't know what you're capable of yet without that big brand name.
00:19:57.920 -->
00:20:02.799They don't know exactly what you're selling, they don't know what you stand for as an individual without that name.
00:20:02.960 -->
00:20:04.400And it can take time.
00:20:04.640 -->
00:20:07.920It can also take a very long time to convert a lead.
00:20:08.079 -->
00:20:25.359You know, a lead could be someone that you met three years ago at a conference, but what I learned over time was by nurturing those leads continually, staying in touch, tagging people in your posts, DMing them occasionally, sending them an email out of the blue when you see something they're interested in, it really pays off.
00:20:25.440 -->
00:20:35.599I've had people come back to me after three, four years, or people that I've done outreach to who've said, I saw you on a stage four years ago, or I remember this post or this campaign that you did.
00:20:35.839 -->
00:20:47.519And I don't think you realize how much things stay with people, but you're not necessarily meeting them at the serendipitous moment where you have the perfect thing to sell and they are in the perfect position to buy.
00:20:47.680 -->
00:20:50.000People move jobs every two, three years now.
00:20:50.240 -->
00:20:57.759It might be that when you approach that one organization, it wasn't right, but you stay in contact and then they start a new job and they realize they need external support.
00:20:57.920 -->
00:21:04.079So I think just being patient with your network, trusting that that network will eventually pay dividends.
00:21:04.240 -->
00:21:11.759But if you're building a network and you're building a personal brand and you're building connections in order for a quick convert, you're doing it the wrong way.
00:21:12.160 -->
00:21:13.839It's it's not gonna quick convert.
00:21:13.920 -->
00:21:14.960You might get lucky.
00:21:15.440 -->
00:21:30.079And I think you also have to realize that it takes time and nurture and and genuinely staying in touch with people because you believe in the power of that reciprocal benefit over time, not because you are trying to hard sell them.
00:21:30.400 -->
00:21:31.680Yes, I'm totally agree.
00:21:31.920 -->
00:21:39.680It's it's uh it's very difficult when I usually discuss about personal branding like a long way, like a marathon.
00:21:40.480 -->
00:21:45.359The people it's difficult for people to understand it's everybody wants to have it very quick, quick results.
00:21:45.440 -->
00:21:53.759It's also about experts who want to sell their services, it's also about the person who wants to change their career, we want to have a quick results.
00:21:53.920 -->
00:21:59.039They just want to start and have uh quick results in one, two months or weeks.
00:22:01.759 -->
00:22:12.880The other mistake I see freelancers making, you just made me think about this, is and also okay, and also in-house professionals is when they are working, they go quiet on their personal brand.
00:22:13.039 -->
00:22:20.240Especially especially with freelancers or independents, they get a job and then all of a sudden they're nowhere and they'll work on this project for six months.
00:22:20.480 -->
00:22:26.720It'll be nice, it'll be comfortable, and then they'll come out the other side thinking, I better get back on LinkedIn.
00:22:26.960 -->
00:22:28.559And it doesn't work like that.
00:22:28.720 -->
00:22:30.960Like you you've let it go fallow.
00:22:31.119 -->
00:22:33.599It it's something that you have to feed and nurture.
00:22:33.680 -->
00:22:44.960And actually, when you're in work, it's a great time to do it because you're doing interesting things that you can hopefully talk about, even if you don't have permission to talk about that client or that project, talking about it in the abstract.
00:22:45.119 -->
00:22:47.039Like today, I had a difficult conversation.
00:22:47.119 -->
00:22:48.240Here's how I handled it.
00:22:48.319 -->
00:22:52.559It doesn't have to be saying I did this project at this company.
00:22:52.960 -->
00:23:00.799So I think people forget that actually when they're in the work, that's when the sparks should be flying, that's when you should be sharing, and that it requires that constant nurture.
00:23:00.960 -->
00:23:06.240And equally, I see this from people who are in-house who think, well, I'm in-house, I don't need a personal brand.
00:23:06.319 -->
00:23:08.160I've got the brand name behind me.
00:23:08.400 -->
00:23:14.960But you never know in this climate or this market if you're going to be laid off, if that's going to be your job forever, if there's going to be a restructure.
00:23:15.200 -->
00:23:20.640So I do find now I myself telling people who are in-house, please build a personal brand.
00:23:20.799 -->
00:23:22.640I tell all my clients to do it.
00:23:22.880 -->
00:23:42.880You know, what are you talking about that that tells people who you are as a professional and is building a kind of live impression for future employers about what you stand for, what you're capable of, because it is not enough in this climate to work hard in a job or in a gig and expect that everyone knows it.
00:23:43.119 -->
00:23:51.279And some of the best people that I've helped on their personal branding journey, on their storytelling journey, have been people who are really, really good at their job.
00:23:51.359 -->
00:24:00.000And they say, Oh, well, you know, my boss always gave me great reviews, and everyone who's worked with me thinks I'm great, and you know, I know I do a good job, I know I'm top of my game.
00:24:00.240 -->
00:24:04.960But if no one else knows that, you know, then you're stuck.
00:24:08.880 -->
00:24:09.680Yeah, absolutely.
00:24:09.759 -->
00:24:10.240Absolutely.
00:24:10.400 -->
00:24:21.599It's much more easier when you're working in a big corporation, start to build your personal brand because it helps you later to find a new interesting job or start your own career as in a dependent.
00:24:22.000 -->
00:24:23.440It also helps you in-house.
00:24:23.839 -->
00:24:28.400It also helps you in-house because there is so much power in employee advocacy.
00:24:28.559 -->
00:24:41.920And if the business that you work for sees how well you are building the reputation both of yourself and of your employer, as long as you do it right and you do it in a way that feels right for you, you're now an even more valuable asset to your employer.
00:24:42.319 -->
00:24:52.160One of the reasons that people said what I don't have time for promoting my personal brand because it really takes time for publishing something in social media, in LinkedIn.
00:24:52.400 -->
00:25:08.160And Emily, I want to ask you, uh, what your what is your recommendation about the social media, not only maybe about LinkedIn, what is a strategy for social media could people use for promoting themselves and how to keep from one side authenticity through a different platform?
00:25:08.319 -->
00:25:10.880Maybe you should differentiate for different platforms.
00:25:10.960 -->
00:25:16.640So for my for example, from my perspective, it's I'm working on different markets in three languages.
00:25:16.799 -->
00:25:19.519And it's very interesting how that we have a different platform.
00:25:19.759 -->
00:25:29.119One platform common is a LinkedIn, it's much more easier, but I understand what for some particular markets in one market uh also Facebook is very, very popular as a business platform.
00:25:29.279 -->
00:25:31.279So I need to use it for my visibility.
00:25:32.160 -->
00:25:37.279And now the markets uh here in Brazil, for example, the second business platform is Instagram.
00:25:37.680 -->
00:25:39.920So I need to start to work on this platform.
00:25:40.000 -->
00:25:42.640So it's yeah, yeah now it's a real city.
00:25:42.799 -->
00:25:57.599So what uh could you recommend to people, uh especially who want to go globally about working on different platforms, training the experience in different platforms, then that keep themselves and what is maybe you share your own experience, but is your own strategy?
00:25:58.160 -->
00:26:09.279I think so the I don't have time or I'm not confident are two of the biggest excuses I hear, or biggest reasons, blockers I hear from from leaders, people and companies.
00:26:09.440 -->
00:26:11.200It's it's a challenge to overcome.
00:26:11.359 -->
00:26:15.279But I think what helps mitigate that is knowing why you're doing it.
00:26:15.519 -->
00:26:23.599Because if you feel like it's an obligation or something that you're dragging yourself through like a dentist appointment, then you're not gonna do it.
00:26:23.759 -->
00:26:37.279If you know that there is an objective at the end of it, which is, you know, I want to build my reputation in this specific way, or I want to demonstrate my growth in this area, or I really want to become an advisor on this.
00:26:37.440 -->
00:26:40.000You know, it's a bit like being asked to plan out your career.
00:26:40.079 -->
00:26:48.319You know, if you think one day I might like to, you know, be someone who trains others on leadership development, okay, great.
00:26:48.400 -->
00:27:14.160Well, you've been an in-house leadership expert, but the world doesn't necessarily know that you are developing different training methods or you have different ideas on the topic or you're challenging the industry, you know, thinking about what your long game is and then building a narrative around that is really helpful because then you feel like you're investing in your future role or in your exit strategy or whatever it happens to be, um, which I think makes the time feel like time well spent.
00:27:14.319 -->
00:27:16.640I do think the multi-platform thing is interesting.
00:27:16.799 -->
00:27:22.079I would say if time is an issue, spreading yourself too thin and trying to be everywhere is not going to be possible.
00:27:22.240 -->
00:27:26.160You know, I've tried spending time on Instagram and it's touch and go for me.
00:27:26.400 -->
00:27:33.680I do think figure out what feels most intuitive to you, but also figure out where your audience is, the audience you're actually targeting.
00:27:33.759 -->
00:27:38.559And again, if you know why you're doing it, then you also know who you're speaking to and who you're trying to connect with.
00:27:38.640 -->
00:27:42.160And then you have to figure out where that audience is because they won't always be in the same place.
00:27:42.319 -->
00:27:45.920I always say to people like, some people are writers, some are better on camera.
00:27:46.079 -->
00:27:49.839Um, also figure out what kind of content medium works better for you.
00:27:50.000 -->
00:27:56.720Some people are really comfortable with a photography medium or yeah, jumping on to do quick reels.
00:27:56.880 -->
00:28:00.240I'm increasingly confident on camera, but I I prefer to write.
00:28:00.319 -->
00:28:10.240I like to sit down and write out my thoughts and write it in a sort of dry, sometimes funny tone of voice, and which I think people can relate to, hopefully.
00:28:10.400 -->
00:28:16.160Um but I enjoy doing that a little bit more, so that's why I prefer a platform that is more writing-based.
00:28:16.240 -->
00:28:19.599Um, but increasingly most platforms are becoming video-based as well.
00:28:19.680 -->
00:28:26.000So yeah, getting comfortable practicing, learning what you're good at and where your audience is is worthwhile.
00:28:26.079 -->
00:28:30.400But the the being everywhere all at once, I think, unless you're going to really maintain it, don't bother.
00:28:30.480 -->
00:28:33.839Um, just focus on one channel and do it well and grow over time.
00:28:34.000 -->
00:28:36.079Of course, you can repurpose content.
00:28:36.240 -->
00:28:48.000You know, we regularly do, we have a YouTube channel, for example, and we we do cut downs that we then put on LinkedIn and put on Instagram, and there's a lot of cross-promotion across channels, which is really smart if you've got the time and the resources.
00:28:48.160 -->
00:28:55.599But realistically, most people I speak to are just desperately trying to make one thing work and do it well.
00:28:55.920 -->
00:29:01.200That's absolutely it's one of the bad about the fun channel, but do it in a constant way.
00:29:01.359 -->
00:29:04.960So don't have any excuses for you.
00:29:05.200 -->
00:29:14.720And look, we we haven't talked about the dreaded AI and yeah, it's it's my my my question is about AI, the next step, because now it's very interesting.
00:29:14.799 -->
00:29:25.359Uh now a lot of people talk about what now in LinkedIn you see what you could talk to LinkedIn, what this content was generated with AI.
00:29:25.759 -->
00:29:34.160And now it's all the marketing trends told us what in the era of AI, the human touch become more and more valued, valuable.
00:29:34.480 -->
00:29:42.960So, from your perspective, what is the best way to using AI if you want to develop your personal brand as a profession?
00:29:44.640 -->
00:30:02.960There was a there was a quote that went viral, I think, last week, that was about, and I can't attribute it, I'm sorry, but it was about, you know, before you start lending your voice or putting it through AI, make sure you've sort of done the work to like create your own voice in the first place, you know, and that is a process.
00:30:03.119 -->
00:30:15.359I'm still finding my own voice and finding the way I write, and I love to write, so I don't ever want to lose that bil ability, and I feel it, I feel it wane when I start outsourcing my brain.
00:30:15.599 -->
00:30:24.640What I do think is powerful is being able to refine your ideas, being able to put more content out more quickly, and that's great.
00:30:24.880 -->
00:30:40.160However, I think we slowly end up with the lowest common denominator, which is AI slot, and I think what's been quite interesting is seeing um obviously the backlash on platforms like LinkedIn, where people are doing it more at scale than perhaps on some other platforms.
00:30:40.400 -->
00:30:46.319And then you see LinkedIn having to react by allowing people to flag when something's AI slot, and I think that's very telling.
00:30:46.640 -->
00:30:48.559Content makes the platform, right?
00:30:48.799 -->
00:30:58.960So if the content is poor, people don't want to read it, then they're all just shouting into a void at each other with boring, repurposed content, and no one wants that.
00:30:59.200 -->
00:31:08.960And I think LinkedIn probably got very scared in the last couple of weeks, thinking maybe engagement levels are down, people are, you know, there's a load of more bots on here responding to stuff.
00:31:09.119 -->
00:31:26.720And I think that's a smart catch because certainly the stuff that I want to read is the stuff where there is depth of human insight, and you can see more people creating Substacks, things like that as well, where there is less AI-generated content, more quality of thought, more depth of thought.
00:31:26.799 -->
00:31:32.720I think we're seeing a big increase in newsletters and off-platform subscribing to newsletters.
00:31:32.799 -->
00:31:40.720We've created one as well where we really try and add value, create something of quality, and you know that people are subscribing to receive something that's a bit more curated.
00:31:40.880 -->
00:31:48.319So I would just say I think as with anything, it has to be interesting to generate interest.
00:31:48.480 -->
00:31:58.079So great if you want to refine your writing, but if it's boring to read, it doesn't make people feel anything, they're not gonna react in the way that you want.
00:32:03.599 -->
00:32:14.319Uh then the about offline and online, and also what other strategies could be useful when you try to join the market that's not maybe close to you in new new markets.
00:32:14.640 -->
00:32:24.880Uh, because for example, you're living in Europe and I know what you are those who are directive, who could participate in in uh events in different countries.
00:32:25.599 -->
00:32:34.240Another way, for example, you talk about any other continents, about Asia, about the US, Latin America, so it's much more difficult to join these to these markets.
00:32:34.319 -->
00:32:45.359And so what uh helped you in the past, maybe you could share some ideas, uh the last right, help you to join the new markets, and maybe a recommendation from your network, maybe people would share it.
00:32:45.440 -->
00:33:02.160Um it's much more difficult when you are in a one market, which why I focus on a go global, because when you are on a one market, you just need the time, especially if you're a home market, you usually have a big network here, people could know you from school, from university, so from your network.
00:33:02.559 -->
00:33:12.000But when you try to join the new market, absolutely, you have a zero network, you and you are not an all-known person, but for example, you decided to grow a personal brand.
00:33:12.079 -->
00:33:14.880I know a lot of people who are now have this interest.
00:33:15.599 -->
00:33:19.599What could you recommend from these uh from this perspective?
00:33:19.839 -->
00:33:20.319Yeah.
00:33:20.880 -->
00:33:25.119If you have the resources to do so, going in person is always helpful.
00:33:25.279 -->
00:33:34.240I think you meet a lot of people at big global events and you suddenly don't feel like you're from one market, you feel like you're part of something bigger than yourself.
00:33:34.559 -->
00:33:44.480If you don't, I mean, I think what I've noticed increasingly is local markets are more open to bringing speakers from around the world there as well.
00:33:44.720 -->
00:33:52.400So, like I spoke in Bucharest uh a couple of months ago and met loads of great people, connected with all of them.
00:33:52.559 -->
00:34:00.559But also I thought they were interested to connect with me because obviously it's a different network, it's you know interesting to hear from someone who's from a different market.
00:34:00.880 -->
00:34:13.360So I'd also encourage people to connect with speakers when they travel and then make sure you're following up, make sure you're reaching out, ask them who they follow, ask them what communities they're in, you know, because they can help open doors for you as well.
00:34:13.599 -->
00:34:29.280Being respectful, obviously, with a person's time, but I think really putting yourself out there when you meet internationals and and sort of being explicit in the fact that you are trying to break into an international community, I think if you don't express clearly what you're what you're trying to gain, people can't fully help you.
00:34:29.360 -->
00:34:31.599So I think it's always great to put yourself out there.
00:34:31.840 -->
00:34:42.960Also helps if you can try and get those speaking opportunities, you know, whether that's reaching out and offering to speak or be on panels or do things where maybe unfortunately you might not get paid the first time.
00:34:43.039 -->
00:34:49.199But if your goal is I actually want to network and I want to be have more of a global presence, that obviously really helps.
00:34:49.280 -->
00:35:19.760Um and then I think back to the community point I made earlier, following people from different markets, like deliberately training algorithms to not just serve you the same content from your you can tell if your, you know, your your network is constantly serving you things from people you went to university with, you know, and I've deliberately retrained LinkedIn by following people, for example, that I want to hear more from and being really intentional about how I train the algorithm to show me people who are outside of my original sphere.
00:35:20.000 -->
00:35:21.440I think that really helps as well.
00:35:21.599 -->
00:35:28.559We can get stuck in a cycle of liking the same people's posts and being served the same kind of content from the same local connections.
00:35:29.440 -->
00:35:34.159Emily, to sum up the hour discussion uh because they're coming so so fast.
00:35:34.400 -->
00:35:38.639I hope we could discuss some more and more and more about personal brand, about the your community.
00:35:38.880 -->
00:35:44.480I have two uh two questions before before some up, I want one more question, additional, and I want to sum up.
00:35:44.719 -->
00:35:45.599It's about community.
00:35:45.760 -->
00:35:59.920You mentioned uh when you talk about territory, you also mentioned the community, and uh for me it's one of the very important tools for building your presence, for building your uh personal branding, for building your reputation, for connecting with other people and so on.
00:36:00.239 -->
00:36:13.599What uh is the best strategy from your sites about community, how to find the appropriate community, how to join them, how to become visible in this community, what would you bring to the community, how to understand what community really could give to you?
00:36:13.679 -->
00:36:18.960So it's about uh community as a tool for a personal being this global global community.
00:36:19.039 -->
00:36:20.639What could you recommend?
00:36:21.039 -->
00:36:30.559The first thing I would say is in joining a community, if you're only going to a community to take from the community, then you won't last long.
00:36:30.800 -->
00:36:33.920The whole point of community is it's two-way.
00:36:34.239 -->
00:36:39.119I think the more you give and the more you put into community, the more you will see people reciprocating.
00:36:39.199 -->
00:36:42.320And I certainly feel and notice that with our community.
00:36:42.559 -->
00:36:47.519There are people who are definitely there just to see what's in it for them.
00:36:47.679 -->
00:36:49.280And I think you notice.
00:36:49.519 -->
00:36:54.800And that's okay, but I always say to them, I think you won't get out as much as you, you know, you expect to.
00:36:55.039 -->
00:37:06.079And then there are people who are busy championing others who, if someone asks a question, they're the first to jump on it and help them or send them a link or make an introduction um or try and help them in some way.
00:37:06.239 -->
00:37:08.800And I I do think that that really pays off.
00:37:09.039 -->
00:37:12.960I also believe that community is more important than it's ever been.
00:37:13.199 -->
00:37:15.679Um, I think we're living in a really difficult time.
00:37:15.840 -->
00:37:32.000I think there are a lot of people who come into our community who have lost their jobs and who are not freelancing by choice, or they are in a position where they really need to try and generate income, or they're having a low spell, or their confidence has been not for some reason.
00:37:32.159 -->
00:37:36.000And I never want those people to feel inferior in our space.
00:37:36.079 -->
00:37:38.079I really want them to feel like they can get help.
00:37:38.239 -->
00:37:47.360We do a lot of sessions that are practical, that are around, you know, different disciplines and around growing your business and you know, m self-promotion and marketing, all those things.
00:37:47.599 -->
00:37:51.199But we've also been doing sessions recently which are a lot more introspective.
00:37:51.360 -->
00:38:06.079So, you know, understanding your block of how to sort of deal with your emotions when, you know, freelancing gets tough, and how to sort of navigate through periods of feast and famine, you know, and deal with those uh, you know, in the same way.
00:38:06.239 -->
00:38:10.000And we've got a lot of coaches in the network, we've got a lot of people who are very empathetic.
00:38:10.159 -->
00:38:17.679And I think being able to be vulnerable in a community space gives you so much more access to the help and support that you need.
00:38:17.840 -->
00:38:24.079Whereas if you're only going in there to sell or to see what people can do for you, I don't think you get as much back, to be honest.
00:38:24.239 -->
00:38:26.639And I think you're missing the point of community.
00:38:27.519 -->
00:38:53.519Emily, and to sum up, my last question is traditional questions I really like to sum up with all of our conversation and a lot of thoughts with you shared during uh the our this episode what are three main tips that you could give to all the professionals who start to build their personal brand or who need to be encouraged for developing their personal brand for the next year, for example.
00:38:53.760 -->
00:39:03.360Three main tips which could you give me I would say um know why you're doing it in the first place, like have a an end goal or something you want to achieve through doing it because it's gonna take time.
00:39:03.599 -->
00:39:07.119So put you know, make it worth your while to put in the effort.
00:39:07.199 -->
00:39:14.320Um remember that it's two-way, it's not about you broadcasting your thoughts or showing all your wins.
00:39:14.559 -->
00:39:19.519It's about you giving back as much as you're putting in and helping others and and connecting with them.
00:39:19.599 -->
00:39:21.039So it's a two-way street.
00:39:21.360 -->
00:39:26.639And the third one is you know, understand and think about what you want to be known for.
00:39:26.800 -->
00:39:29.199You know, what think about it as reputation.
00:39:29.360 -->
00:39:50.639Think about what is the one thing I want people to say about me when I'm not in the room, and what would I want them to understand or know about me from just encountering one of my posts or one interaction with me at a conference and try and be consistent in them because I think your reputation outlasts any post you've written or any any sort of one piece of video you make.
00:39:51.280 -->
00:40:01.360Thanks a lot for for your advice for for for sharing your knowledge so we I also could invite it you at to join the uh truth rock community as a platform.
00:40:01.599 -->
00:40:08.880Uh and I think I could share the link to a truth rock in uh podcast in that episode of our podcast.
00:40:09.280 -->
00:40:10.800So thanks for participation.
00:40:11.440 -->
00:40:12.159Thanks so much.
00:40:12.400 -->
00:40:13.920Lovely to speak to you, Tatiana.
00:40:14.000 -->
00:40:15.280I'll stay on for a couple of minutes.
00:40:15.760 -->
00:40:15.920Yeah.
00:40:16.400 -->
00:40:19.280So this is not Gasco Global, personal bringing your brothers.
00:40:19.599 -->
00:40:20.239Stay connected.
