The Accountability Advantage: From Confusion to Clarity with Laura Hayes and Sarah Robinson

[00:00:01] Scott Eckart: I'm Scott Eckhart and this is Future Proof, a show for building something that lasts. Let's get into it.

[00:00:08] Scott Eckart: Hello everyone joining us on Future Proof today. We have Laura Hayes, the owner of Ground Rules Coaching, and Sarah Robinson, who is a team member and a senior coach and facilitator

[00:00:20] I love the Henry Ford quote, "If I asked people what they wanted, they would've said faster horses."

[00:00:25] Laura Hayes: I love it because if we just keep asking people what they want, we're never going to actually truly lead them.

[00:00:30] Scott Eckart: In this session, Laura and Sarah will get into the growth of Ground Rules Coaching and into the power of knowing your signature strengths.

[00:00:39] ​

[00:00:43] Welcome everyone to this edition of Future Proof. I am so excited to have Laura Hayes and Sarah Robinson on the show today. Can you say hello? Hello.

[00:00:51] Sarah Robinson: Hello, hello.

[00:00:54] Scott Eckart: Yeah, so, uh, Laura Hayes, owner of Ground Rules Coaching, thank you so much for being here. [00:01:00] And with her today, Sarah Robinson, who is her most valuable coach on staff.

[00:01:06] And, so excited to have you here. Uh, they are quite the dynamic duo, and so Laura wanted, uh, Sarah here, and, um, she's, not new to this relationship, but, uh, newer on, in the coaching platform. And so we're so excited to have you along here as well, Sarah, so.

[00:01:23] Sarah Robinson: I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much for having

[00:01:25] Scott Eckart: me.

[00:01:25] Of course. So as we get started, I think it's really important for our listeners who are, you know, this is a show by entrepreneurs, the three of us, for entrepreneurs. So let's just get started with a background. we're gonna get to Ground Ru- Ground Rules Coaching here in a second, but I'd love to start with an introduction of both of you.

[00:01:44] So Laura, I'm gonna have you go first, and let's just talk about Laura a little bit, and you've got this amazing background. And so let's talk about you and what you've done, and kind of bring us up to speed on, on, uh, Ground Rules.

[00:01:58] Laura Hayes: All right, Scott. [00:02:00] So I am a local Hoosier.

[00:02:03] Scott Eckart: Yay.

[00:02:03] Laura Hayes: Go, go Indiana, and- Go Bulldogs.

[00:02:05] Go... Well- Yes ... I, well I was gonna say that- Okay ... but I'm gonna come to that.

[00:02:08] Scott Eckart: All right.

[00:02:08] Laura Hayes: Okay. So I was like, all right. Okay. So yes- All right ... go, go Butler. Okay. So I'm from Indiana, went to school here, and then went to college up in Wisconsin, and you have to- Wisconsin. You have... Yep, it's required. The big- If you go to school in Wisconsin, you have to do that.

[00:02:21] And then came back to go to grad school at Butler. Go Dogs.

[00:02:26] Scott Eckart: And it's funny, my first job ever, so in family businesses there's no labor laws.

[00:02:34] Correct.

[00:02:35] Laura Hayes: Right.

[00:02:36] Scott Eckart: You could be 12.

[00:02:37] Laura Hayes: You know what? And I was.

[00:02:39] So we had a family business in landscaping, so up until I worked around the business, and then at 14, I remember the day school ended, it was a half day of school, and around the corner was a job site. Oh. And so carpool dropped me off at the local job site. Mm. And it had rained the night before, which is important to know [00:03:00] because we were laying rolls of sod. Wet sod is very heavy.

[00:03:03] Scott Eckart: Yes

[00:03:03] Laura Hayes: it is. So all day long I laid sod. I was a muddy mess. And so I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs, and then went to school. My undergrad is actually in education. I have a master's in education and leadership, and- That's kind of where I came from.

[00:03:20] Scott Eckart: did you kind of just think you were gonna just be a business owner?

[00:03:23] Laura Hayes: Absolutely not.

[00:03:24] Scott Eckart: Oh.

[00:03:25] Laura Hayes: I was going to be in education.

[00:03:28] I had the entrepreneurial drive. I was always the best. So I was the top teacher, I was the top salesperson. Mm-hmm. I was always the top.

[00:03:37] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:03:37] Laura Hayes: But I was never going to do this. Okay. This wasn't even in my-

[00:03:40] Scott Eckart: Yeah ...

[00:03:41] Laura Hayes: background of my brain. Oh,

[00:03:42] Scott Eckart: okay.

[00:03:43] Laura Hayes: And then as I got into doing this, what I do is coaching and leadership development, we did as a value add in my last company.

[00:03:50] Okay. And it grew, it grew on its own into what it is. It could be its standalone. So I did not see this coming, no, absolutely not.

[00:03:57] Scott Eckart: Where did you meet Sarah?

[00:03:58] Laura Hayes: Well, the first time we met was [00:04:00] Lapeep, but we met about nine years ago. We are local coaches, and we know lots of them around here. Right. So we got connected just through that network of- Okay ... we're here, we're Indy gals. So we got connected back then- Okay

[00:04:13] and just became fast friends. And I'll let you tell the rest, but that's how we met nine years ago as fellow strengths coaches.

[00:04:20] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:04:21] Sarah Robinson: So Sarah, your background.

[00:04:22] So my background is I had an undergraduate degree in psychology, and I grew up in Indy, um, went far away- to school on the East Coast, Mount Holyoke College, first woman's college in the United States of America- That's great

[00:04:37] established in 1837.

[00:04:38] Scott Eckart: and knew I didn't want to do therapy. But I was really interested in psychology. And I just thought, you know, what would be so cool is to up, you know, have something in business in psychology. So there was this emerging new field called industrial and organizational psychology.

[00:04:59] Sarah Robinson: [00:05:00] And now I know I'm an activator, and this was one of those activator things, which there weren't a lot of people encouraging me to go down that path because it was the path untaken. It was a brand-new field. but I decided that was my path. That's what I wanted. And so I got a master's degree in industrial organizational psychology at IUPY.

[00:05:22] Go Jags. And then what? Had, I had to find a real job.

[00:05:28] Scott Eckart: Right. Yeah. And for folks that don't know, activator, you and I share that, but that is a StrengthsFinder, uh, mode. And so for those people who haven't taken it, us three coaches here, uh, you gotta do it.

[00:05:41] Sarah Robinson: Oh, you gotta do it. Right. Yeah. And it's so, a- as you can tell just by the way I've added it into my own bio- Yeah

[00:05:48] is it's really critical to who I am.

[00:05:51] Scott Eckart: Um, my first job was at the Whistle Stop, which is now Brix. but it was a deli in Broad Ripple. And, I [00:06:00] started soon after school got out, it was race weekend. And as you know, restaurant industries are really busy. Um, that weekend there were lots of box lunches to make. Mm.

[00:06:10] Yes.

[00:06:11] Sarah Robinson: And there were lots of Yes, dishes to clean. And that was my first job, ladies and gentlemen. I was a really, really good dish cleaner

[00:06:23] Scott Eckart: But you took this path. Nobody knew what it was. Your... I think even your own family was like, "Sarah, what are you doing? This is not a thing."

[00:06:31] Sarah Robinson: This is not a thing.

[00:06:33] Scott Eckart: And, you know, let- let's pull it back here.

[00:06:36] Well- But you were not deterred. You-

[00:06:38] Sarah Robinson: I was not deterred No I was not deterred. And, my mom was an entrepreneur, so she, started her own private practice in therapy- Okay ... um, in her 40s.

[00:06:47] Scott Eckart: Wow.

[00:06:48] Sarah Robinson: And she figured it out, so how hard could it be,

[00:06:52] Scott Eckart: it was actually really hard,

[00:06:54] Yes. So did you have dream killers or dream makers? Who, who was on the sidelines for you [00:07:00] at that point?

[00:07:00] Sarah Robinson: obviously didn't start my business immediately. Mm-hmm. I, I worked inside for a little bit and, uh, became a bit disenchanted. I wanted to just really focus on... What I was doing at that time was what we called employee satisfaction surveys, and I wanted to only do that.

[00:07:15] Okay. I loved that work. Right And I was doing regular HR stuff, which I wasn't as excited about. And so I went out on my own to start doing that, maybe a little prematurely, but it, you know, it all worked out, and, um, and I just kept that ball rolling. and so I would say, you know, my husband has always been my cheerleader.

[00:07:37] I've had, uh, the privilege of Being in the same room frequently with t- terrific people- Mm ... like Martha Hoover.

[00:07:47] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:07:47] Sarah Robinson: Right? And our husbands were both lawyers at the same firm. Interesting. We were friendly. Okay. I got to see the very beginning days of Café Patachou, and jaw-dropping.

[00:07:59] Everything that [00:08:00] she had the vision for and then created and made- Right ... into a reality. Yeah, yeah. So again, it's demystifying- the scariness-

[00:08:10] Scott Eckart: Yeah ...

[00:08:11] Sarah Robinson: of creating your own business and, you know, seeing the ups and downs.

[00:08:16] Scott Eckart: So Laura, um, switching kind of to your, I guess, I love the word transformation, because that's a big deal for you.

[00:08:24] But, um, so you had some significant opportunities, and then you made the leap. And one of the things that people need to know about Ground Rules, and I love this tag phrase, transform your leadership potential, which is what you truly do. And if we brought FedEx and Hostess and Gorton's and Ryder and Cabby in, they would all line up, and they would say, this is why we work with Ground Rules, and it's amazing."

[00:08:51] but you didn't do that, you didn't wake up one day and, and they didn't invite you in. Like, ta-da. You went through a process.

[00:08:58] Let's talk about [00:09:00] what you learned before you started Ground Rules.

[00:09:02] Laura Hayes: Sure. So I started this reactively 12-ish years ago. We were trying to serve our community, which at that time was the industry of warehousing and manufacturing. And so the pain point of we grew up overnight, there was no onboarding plan- Mm

[00:09:20] for us. Literally look in Indiana's corn fields.

[00:09:22] Scott Eckart: Yeah. Full of warehouses.

[00:09:24] Laura Hayes: Uh-huh.

[00:09:24] Scott Eckart: Everywhere.

[00:09:25] Laura Hayes: And so, and leaving their building is really hard. I was talking to the guys at Ryder years ago, and they said, "Yeah, corporate said we can all send our leaders down for a week of training." He said, "We can't even leave the building for an hour."

[00:09:38] Scott Eckart: Mm.

[00:09:39] Laura Hayes: There was no option for them. And so I reacted to that. So one of my strengths is woo, I'm gonna win others over, but the other one is connectedness. So I see connections wherever I go.

[00:09:50] Scott Eckart: Yes, you do.

[00:09:51] Laura Hayes: And so I started writing content. I became a strengths coach and writing content for them where I came on site to them.

[00:09:58] And they said, "What's [00:10:00] next?" So I s- went and got certified in The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, and they said, "What's next?" And I went and got certified in Enneagram. And so slowly, just as a reaction to the customer need, I started to build a program that also had to fit their needs, but also their capacity.

[00:10:16] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:10:17] Laura Hayes: So could they come for a week? No. Could they stop for two hours? Yes. And then there's also the other side, I love the Henry Ford quote, "If I asked people what they wanted, they would've said faster horses."

[00:10:28] Scott Eckart: That's a great quote. I've never heard that before. Oh,

[00:10:30] Laura Hayes: I love it because if we just keep asking people what they want, we're never going to actually truly lead them.

[00:10:36] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:10:36] Laura Hayes: So although, for example, I've never had, ever, I've never had a manager come to me and say, "Laura, we need to work on trust." Not once in 12 years, and yet I know in the five dysfunctions of a team, you're always working on trust.

[00:10:50] Scott Eckart: Correct.

[00:10:50] Laura Hayes: Bar none.

[00:10:51] Scott Eckart: That's right.

[00:10:52] Laura Hayes: And so there's certain things I'm building and doing for them that they did not ask me.

[00:10:56] Mm-hmm. But I know I want to lead them. And [00:11:00] so there's a little bit give and take. I react to the industry that the customer need, but also I wanna look at the future and see what's coming and start preparing them for things they don't see. So it's both.

[00:11:09] Scott Eckart: How do you stop someone because they're so busy, right? Tyranny of the urgency, right? And say, "I'm gonna actually help you with something that you didn't ask for." How do you do that?

[00:11:23] Laura Hayes: I always say, just like in so many industries, I peddle hope.

[00:11:27] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:11:27] Laura Hayes: So if I have a leader who's willing to listen to the fact that I've just heard their problems and I have a solution-

[00:11:33] Scott Eckart: Mm-hmm

[00:11:35] Laura Hayes: how it gets done, they're not asking me. They're asking me, "Do you have a plan?"

[00:11:40] Scott Eckart: Okay. "

[00:11:41] Laura Hayes: I want to rest in your plan, and I want to sit down so you can stand up."

[00:11:44] Scott Eckart: But if I push back on you and say, "But I didn't, I didn't ask for that," and you say?

[00:11:48] Laura Hayes: I will tell them that what we know about team health is that everything starts with trust.

[00:11:55] I don't do the assessment very often anymore, but I would even have them fill out their own assessment in front of me, [00:12:00] and it would reveal- Mm-hmm ... that trust is low every time.

[00:12:02] Scott Eckart: But one of the fascinating things that I know about your business is that you can then go in and you can actually measure ROI, which is kind of amazing, and that's where you say, "See?" Without saying, "I told you so," but the proof is in the fact that your people have now gone up in productivity.

[00:12:23] There's something really special happening there. So these are the things that you've learned, right? Yeah. And then you can go and you can show them.

[00:12:29] Laura Hayes: Yeah. I had a team a few years ago now where I met them, and he was pulling things off the shelf, and he said, "I know I need to do something for my team. I'm literally pulling books from behind me."

[00:12:42] And so I presented, you know, the ground rules coaching accountability process, and he said, "I'm in." And I started coaching from their team leads all the way through their general manager. It'd been six months. We coached every week, had them all broken into three different groups, and he comes to me and says, "We went from 66 productivity to [00:13:00] 104% productivity."

[00:13:00] And when you look at, there's a lot of things you can measure. We do engagement surveys. Mm-hmm. You can... I always ask for qualitative data. Is this sticky? Are you starting to use the language that I'm teaching you when I'm not here? And over the years, I learned that they need posters and anchor charts, so now I pepper their room.

[00:13:18] Their room looks like I moved in. And so there's things all over the building as reminders to help it to be sticky. So between the data that they have to measure on their productivity, between engagement surveys, I do also do the five dysfunctions of a team assessment, and then their qualitative. I want them to know they have a strong OI- ROI, but also I want to prove it for their boss's boss.

[00:13:39] Scott Eckart: Hmm.

[00:13:40] Laura Hayes: Because someone down the line signed off on this.

[00:13:42] So that's kind of that measurement, but also it's also very satisfying to me to see, here's who you got to promote internally because now they're prepared. Here's the guys who stayed because they could easily go next door for 25 cents more.

[00:13:55] And I'll ask them, "Why do you stay?" I actually had one guy say, "I stay because of these [00:14:00] classes. No one's ever invested in me in my whole life. I'm 55."

[00:14:03] So these are the things, these are the things that show coaching of any regard, coaching works. Yes. In fact, we say it should be a three times, three times the amount of your investment- Okay

[00:14:11] should be your ROI.

[00:14:12] Scott Eckart: So Sara, what has attracted you now? So you're aligned with Ground Rules, which is very exciting. What has attracted to you about the system and what Laura's been doing, and of course, you've known, known her for many years, but, and your role now?

[00:14:27] Sarah Robinson: Laura has a really remarkable recipe, and I've been around coaching for decades.

[00:14:34] Scott Eckart: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:35] Sarah Robinson: And I can't put my finger on how she has created it. I don't know if it is her education background. what I know is that it works in a different way than lots of other coaching. And, but I've also seen how engaged people are without feeling bogged down.

[00:14:59] Crew: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:59] Sarah Robinson: There [00:15:00] is a heaviness in some coaching atmospheres,

[00:15:04] Scott Eckart: Early role models for me were two female coaches. I was in manufacturing at the time, and I was amazed. This is prior to ever even knowing Laura. I was amazed that all of these men paid attention to them-

[00:15:21] Crew: Hmm ...

[00:15:21] Sarah Robinson: and, and really would do what they were saying. I was so impressed.

[00:15:27] And so I was like, "I think I wanna do that," right? They tried to be really esoteric. They were trying to be kind of complicated and super smart and, you know, always have something weird up their sleeve. And quite frankly, Laura doesn't do that.

[00:15:43] Laura Hayes: Yeah.

[00:15:44] Sarah Robinson: What she does is connect people in ways that is accessible- Mm-hmm

[00:15:49] and repeatable. And that, I think, is a magic in and of itself.

[00:15:55] It's exciting. Exciting for me to, to feel, more [00:16:00] powerful this way.

[00:16:01] Scott Eckart: Right.

[00:16:01] Sarah Robinson: And to know the other steps in the process and the results that I know Laura delivers. We all, as coaches, hear the same questions. We hear the questions about deliverables. We hear, "Well, it's not really working. Well, we can't really carve out that much time. There are all... a million excuses out there.

[00:16:25] Scott Eckart: Right, right. Sure.

[00:16:26] Sarah Robinson: And Laura has done a great job of creating a plan and a system and really finding people that can go the distance. Because once they start kind of the phase one, they're hooked.

[00:16:44] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:16:45] Sarah Robinson: Which is, is what we know i- in coaching is getting them to continue on is the trick.

[00:16:52] So Laura, one of the questions that the show's kind of become known for, is who has [00:17:00] imprinted on you? I am so grateful for the mentors in my life, and people that saw something in me that I didn't even see myself.

[00:17:07] Scott Eckart: I think that's one of my definitions for, for mentorship, and it's still very much a passion project, you know, for me. talk to us a- about that. I know that you've had some pretty special people in your life.

[00:17:18] Laura Hayes: I think back, if I were to, play the nostalgia music and this is your life, I think back, Jodi Curtis, so she's the owner here in town of Purple Ink, and she was the first strength coach I ever saw.

[00:17:31] Hmm. Di- didn't even know what it was. And then when I started Ground Rules, so here's the funny thing about entrepreneurs, you own your time. So I started Ground Rules July 1. She had breakfast meet with me on July 4th.

[00:17:44] Because it doesn't matter. We're entrepreneurs. We work whenever we want.

[00:17:47] Scott Eckart: Right.

[00:17:47] Laura Hayes: So she had breakfast with me and spilled every nugget she could think of, down to how she invoices and different mistakes she's made, and I think of that fondly.

[00:17:58] I think of CJ McClenaghan.

[00:17:59] c- I'd [00:18:00] known him, you know, off and on over the years, and just rang him up when I was starting my company out of the blue and asked him for some advice. And he said this quote, which I give to every other entrepreneur who asks me for ideas, "If you're not embarrassed by the first draft of your business, you waited too long."

[00:18:16] Because that was July, and I said, "I'm gonna start in January." And he goes, "Uh-uh."

[00:18:21] Scott Eckart: Mm-mm.

[00:18:21] Laura Hayes: In fact, I launched in August, and I was full speed ahead and never stopped. So he was right. Were you

[00:18:27] Scott Eckart: embarrassed?

[00:18:28] Laura Hayes: Oh, yes.

[00:18:28] Scott Eckart: Yeah. I love that.

[00:18:30] Laura Hayes: Well, it used to be one hour over six weeks, and then a customer said, "You know, you used to do this for two hours," and it was a lot to get everyone off the floor to stop, and so I pivoted.

[00:18:40] And then I used to... Oh, the investment used to be half as much.

[00:18:44] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:18:45] Laura Hayes: And I pivoted because my dad, who's my number one mentor, who's been an entrepreneur majority of his life- Yeah ... and still coaches me constantly. But when we were starting, when I was starting this, he and I had breakfast, and he says, "I don't really [00:19:00] know what you do."

[00:19:01] But here's what's funny. To this day, he would still say that.

[00:19:03] Scott Eckart: Right.

[00:19:04] Laura Hayes: You don't have to.

[00:19:05] Scott Eckart: Right.

[00:19:05] Laura Hayes: So how do you charge for your brain?"

[00:19:07] Scott Eckart: But the B on that is I believe in you. I don't need to know what I do- Right ... 'cause I believe in you.

[00:19:12] Laura Hayes: Yes. So he helped me plot out, like, how do, how would I charge for this?

[00:19:16] In my past life it was a value add. It was free. And so he helped me plot out what's the value to the customer, what would they get on the other end- Mm ... and where's that middle line? So that's-

[00:19:26] Scott Eckart: Thank you, Dad.

[00:19:27] Laura Hayes: I know.

[00:19:27] Scott Eckart: Ho- oh- oh,

[00:19:28] Laura Hayes: yes, amazing times over. And he constantly gives me advice. And I think of Raj Lula, and he is one of the StoryBrand coaches.

[00:19:38] So if you don't know Don- Donald Miller, shout out. Amazing man. I follow Donald Miller's marketing strategy. Yes. So he's ... You think of the mentors you never meet. Mm-hmm. Donald Miller, Andy Stanley, Kim Scott, Brené Brown, amazing. But Raj Lula, so he's one of those ones, he did some marketing for me. And anyone who says, "Do you want some advice?"

[00:19:56] I take it. And so even just in the last year, he's like, "Do you want some advice?" [00:20:00] Yes. So about a year ago, he had done some marketing for me, and it was one of those if you asked me about a failure, that was one of them. So he was processing it with me. And he said this, he said, "All right. As entrepreneurs, never pay tuition twice." So learn this lesson, break it down, and sell it for parts," the product I had made. And he said, "In all reality, if you were an employee, you would've been fired over this." The mistake- I lost $100,000- Okay ... for the mistake I made. Yeah, yeah. And he said, "But you're not an employee." But- Thank goodness

[00:20:33] n- never pay tuition twice for that lesson.

[00:20:35] Sarah Robinson: Wow.

[00:20:35] Laura Hayes: And I have used that many, many times. And so those are just some of the mentors I think of who's spoken, have spoken into my life. I think of you, so you are one of mine- Mm ... as a, my coachee. And I think of even when I, in my business, went from only doing team coaching, saying no every time somebody wanted me to do one-on-one, to now I have a team who does one-on-one coaching.

[00:20:57] Mm-hmm. And you walked me through that. And then I wanted [00:21:00] to bring Sarah on, New Horizon, and so just as you coach me through- Yeah ... what are things you need to consider, and you ask great probing questions. And I think, oh, sometimes I do come in to you, Scott, and I say, "Today I need no new ideas. I'm at capacity."

[00:21:12] Yes, you have

[00:21:13] Scott Eckart: said

[00:21:13] Laura Hayes: that. "

[00:21:13] Scott Eckart: I've hit my ceiling." Yes, you have said that. And I'm like, "Oh, man." Like,

[00:21:16] Laura Hayes: Cause normally when I leave I have lots of things to execute on. But those are just a few of the mentors that have come in and out of my life, and that I always say I really believe in unmentorship, which is at no point in time

[00:21:30] There are people who are mentors to me who never would've known, known it.

[00:21:33] Scott Eckart: Right.

[00:21:34] Laura Hayes: And so if you're waiting for someone to get down on one knee and with a ring and say, "Would you be m- And propose to you. Yes ... mm-hmm, would you be my mentor?" You're gonna die waiting. Yeah,

[00:21:41] But you go after it. Yes.

[00:21:42] You go find them. Get, get around the people you want the wisdom from- Yeah ... and hang on.

[00:21:46] Scott Eckart: yeah. What would you add to that?

[00:21:48] Sarah Robinson: I would say that mentorship/partnership is something that I, really value.

[00:21:55] Scott Eckart: Mm-hmm.

[00:21:56] Sarah Robinson: And so I consider Laura both. We're [00:22:00] partners and we're mentors.

[00:22:01] Scott Eckart: Mm-hmm.

[00:22:01] Sarah Robinson: We have different sweet spots. And so although we, are traveling along the same journey at the same time, we're also really hopefully learning.

[00:22:11] I hope she's learning something from me. I'm learning so much from her. I know

[00:22:14] Scott Eckart: she has, 'cause she stole me. Oh, so

[00:22:15] Sarah Robinson: much. Just

[00:22:15] Scott Eckart: so you know.

[00:22:16] Sarah Robinson: you know, in a little bit I think we're gonna talk about I've written a couple books, and my, my partner in that was Nicole Gebhardt, she is just really a terrific partner and mentor at the same time.

[00:22:28] So I think that's something to think about. A mentor doesn't always take the shape that you think.

[00:22:34] it's really just those people that are like, "Wow, that piece I want. What do they have there?" Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. "What can I learn from this? What will they share with me? How can I continue to solicit that type of insight?"

[00:22:49] Because light bulbs are going off, bing, bing, bing.

[00:22:51] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:22:52] Sarah Robinson: And I need more of that. it's interesting because you have, the quote, definition of courage is being comfortable with being [00:23:00] uncomfortable.

[00:23:00] That's my definition of growth.

[00:23:03] Scott Eckart: Is that growth is uncomfortable, but not just terrifying. you know that's when you're growing.

[00:23:11] Sarah Robinson: Right? And think about when you're 10 years old, and you're having a growth spurt, and your legs and arms actually hurt.

[00:23:18] And you say, "Mom, my legs are, they're crampy." You know? They, they feel like they're getting stretched.

[00:23:26] And really, the same thing happens when you're growing.

[00:23:29] Scott Eckart: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:30] Sarah Robinson: You're f- you're getting stretched. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, "Oh, wow, this, this feels weird." And guess what? The older that you get, the little bit more uncomfortable it gets. Yeah, yeah. I just, I know so much already." But you have to get into that sandbox of learning and, and reaching and forcing yourself to be around people that continue to bring on the light.

[00:23:56] Scott Eckart: Right? Right. That, that switch on the light bulbs for you, and you say, "Oh, [00:24:00] wow." What I know for me is that if I'm not growing, I'm dying.

[00:24:05] Laura, I wanted to ask you if you've ever felt stuck in business, and how do you get unstuck if you have an idea or something and you just... how do you get... Have you ever felt stuck, and how do you, how do you get out of that?

[00:24:17] Laura Hayes: So I think of this in two directions. I think of this as a business owner, the election year.

[00:24:22] Scott Eckart: Not great. I also think of, I have an idea that I think is amazing.

[00:24:27] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:28] Laura Hayes: But no one else does.

[00:24:29] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:24:30] Laura Hayes: And so the election year, I think of, I have found in my experience that I had decision-makers frozen to make a decision.

[00:24:40] Scott Eckart: Ah, yes.

[00:24:41] Laura Hayes: And so as I was talking to leaders, they knew they had the problem, they loved the solution, but what's going to happen?

[00:24:48] And the industry I was- Yeah ... serving, the tariffs were a huge hit. Wow. Yeah. And so that was a stuck year, and I had to get really creative with grants and changing, [00:25:00] margin and how I would do things, and so that would be, I'd call a stuck. And then I have an idea a minute. And so when- Yeah ... I have some great ideas that I think are just, wow, this is gonna change, you know, the way, the face of America.

[00:25:14] And when other people don't think that, I feel a little stuck. Yeah. It gets stuck. I always say it gets stuck in my craw. And so I have learned, I don't know if you're familiar with the working genius process, but to get around discerners. So a discerner helps you find the value.

[00:25:30] Scott Eckart: And so that's been a big part of my self-awareness journey because when I just thought I was a great idea person- There was no one to vet the value.

[00:25:38] Laura Hayes: So to me, everything's great.

[00:25:39] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:25:39] Laura Hayes: But when you have some people who on purpose you're going to them to vet it out, they're finding the value, then all of a sudden your ideas get really strong and poignant, and I'm able to get unstuck that way. So those, I would say those are my two ...

[00:25:53] Scott Eckart: So follow-up question.

[00:25:54] Mm-hmm. How did you learn to invite the discerner in? Because that's risky. Then you have to kind of put yourself out there, [00:26:00] and maybe not everybody loves every idea that Laura has, right?

[00:26:04] Laura Hayes: I would say that was a part of my self-awareness journey. My story about that is I worked with a woman named Lindsay, and we were both on the leadership team.

[00:26:12] There was four of us. But I just felt like she was a wet blanket. No matter what I said, she wouldn't go for it. Okay. And so fine, I just kept my distance. Mm-hmm. We didn't have to work together. She was in operations. I was in business development and coaching, and so I just stayed kind of away. Took the Working Genius assessment, found out that I'm an ideator and a galvanizer, and she was the discerner.

[00:26:35] And so we both read those reports. We had a conversation about it, and I started to test it out. So every weekend, I would come back with a million ideas. So I scheduled a meeting with her on Monday morning and I said, "Here's my ideas," and I ha- probably gave her four. And it was something to do with the team development, and she picked one out, and we made it happen.

[00:26:55] So I'll fast-forward. We started having that rhythm where I would on purpose come to her and say, "I want you to discern," so [00:27:00] I spoke into her language. And she would know that's my expectation and hers.

[00:27:04] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:27:04] Laura Hayes: I'll fast-forward. We worked together for two more years, and when I left, she wrote me a note that said, "You are my work bestie."

[00:27:09] So having that experience, I now have that expectation that I need to keep finding discerners in my life, and they'll help me find the value because that was a self-awareness that I didn't have, that now I do.

[00:27:21] Scott Eckart: I've said on the show n- on a number of occasions that it was my own insecurity that kept me from asking people- Mm-hmm

[00:27:28] to weigh in. Right? And I started focus grouping some of my workshops and, and my presentations, and when I did that and I picked people, they rose to the occasion. Because they knew that I was asking them for really honest feedback, and they were ready to take that seriously, so they weren't there to hurt me.

[00:27:44] They weren't there to-

[00:27:45] Sarah Robinson: be, you know, overly critical, and they took that responsibility really seriously, and they came up with the most amazing ways to help me that I would have missed out on had I not asked for [00:28:00] that.

[00:28:00] Laura Hayes: Okay, but how did you get to that point? How did you get to the point of asking?

[00:28:03] What was your process?

[00:28:04] Scott Eckart: Well, I'm embarrassed to tell you where I heard it. From a comedian.

[00:28:08] Laura Hayes: Wow.

[00:28:09] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:28:10] Sarah Robinson: I'm shocked.

[00:28:11] Scott Eckart: I, I was shocked too, because, uh, this person is not somebody that, you know, I mean, would... You would make you blush- Yeah ... if you heard them. But they said they workshopped something that they had done 50 times in all of these different venues, big and small, and I just thought they were hilariously funny just from the get-go.

[00:28:30] Sure, sure. They weren't.

[00:28:31] Crew: Oh.

[00:28:32] Scott Eckart: And I'm like, "Wait a minute. You workshopped that." And I know they do it on Broadway. I knew they... You know, all these people who work, like Lin-Manuel Miranda, if I get him on the show. Right. Yep, yep. Right? n- nothing that they do on Broadway is ever what they start with.

[00:28:47] Ever, ever, ever. And that workshopping process, it's brutal. But the stuff they come up with, they make a gajillion dollars on because they're willing to put their ideas [00:29:00] out in front of people who can make it better. Not just, you know, people off the street who say, "Oh, I don't like that," or, "I don't like the look of your face," or something.

[00:29:08] You- Right?

[00:29:08] Sarah Robinson: You have to trust who's giving you feedback.

[00:29:11] Scott Eckart: Yes.

[00:29:11] Sarah Robinson: Nobody wants feedback from a uneducated feedback giver. Or, or,

[00:29:16] Scott Eckart: or people just not in your area or, you know- Right, right ... it's not that they're not

[00:29:19] Sarah Robinson: invested. Not invested.

[00:29:20] Scott Eckart: Right? Yeah.

[00:29:20] Sarah Robinson: What you had were people that were invested and wanted to

[00:29:23] Scott Eckart: make you

[00:29:23] Sarah Robinson: better.

[00:29:23] Scott Eckart: Yeah. And, and so I just, it was one of those things where why did I wait so long to actually seek really earnest feedback in a way, and I thought, "Man, why did I wait so long?"

[00:29:37] Laura Hayes: Okay, I have a funny story.

[00:29:38] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:29:38] Laura Hayes: Okay. So I, over the last 12 years, have written all my own curriculum, 46 classes, and along the way I would read, study, research, write, and then I tested on my un-book club.

[00:29:51] And this is a group of five women who would come to my house once a month, and I made this up, where no one had to read the book, so no pressure. Hmm. And I, I'm a reader. One of my [00:30:00] strengths is input, and so I would expound a book I'd read, and we did this for years. And so I had read Radical Candor, and I'm writing a class for it.

[00:30:09] It's Friday night. They all come to my house, and I have the PowerPoint. I present it, 'cause I'm going to teach this class on Monday morning-

[00:30:15] Scott Eckart: Hmm ...

[00:30:16] Laura Hayes: for a company. This one woman named Allison couldn't come. So she emails me and says, "You know what? I can't come, but I'd love to come hear it. Could I come Sunday afternoon?"

[00:30:24] Sure. So I set up my computer in my kitchen, and she shows up with her boyfriend. So in the kitchen they sit, and I'm going to teach them radical candor, and I'm so excited for them to be so impressed with me.

[00:30:35] Scott Eckart: Oh, no.

[00:30:35] Laura Hayes: I ha- my, I'm holding my breath because they're going to be so impressed. And so I do my whole PowerPoint, I do my whole presentation, and the boyfriend, Alan says, "So I have some notes."

[00:30:46] Scott Eckart: Oh.

[00:30:47] Laura Hayes: And for the next hour tells me how my PowerPoints look like they're from 1993.

[00:30:52] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:30:53] Laura Hayes: And I mean, just rips the whole thing to shreds. Wow. To the Nth degree. Irony here, my class [00:31:00] is called Radical Candor on how to give and receive feedback. So he leaves, I take these notes, I stay up till midnight, and I rewrite the entire presentation- Wow

[00:31:10] based on his notes.

[00:31:11] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:31:12] Laura Hayes: And I present it Monday morning to a company in Park 100.

[00:31:16] Scott Eckart: And how did it go?

[00:31:18] Laura Hayes: It went great.

[00:31:19] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:31:19] Laura Hayes: I've now done the class probably over 200 times. It's my most requested class I teach, and it's gotten, to your point, you workshop something so long- Yeah, yeah ... it's gotten so dialed in so many times based on feedback, and this works, and this doesn't, and new things I've learned.

[00:31:34] It's now very dialed in. But that was the very first draft, and my brain said, "Oh." 'Cause the first group of women gave me no feedback.

[00:31:42] Scott Eckart: Of course not. They were like, "Okay, here we go."

[00:31:44] Laura Hayes: Yeah.

[00:31:45] Scott Eckart: And by the way, everybody, I've told Laura that she could also just do a book newsletter and it would be fine. So Radical Candor, if you didn't hear it the first 12 times we talked about it-

[00:31:56] you need to put that on your list, okay? the other one is [00:32:00] Give and Take by Adam Grant. For sure. So Laura and I talk about that a lot, a lot, a lot, ' cause she is- That's one you read

[00:32:05] Laura Hayes: every year. Yes.

[00:32:05] Scott Eckart: Like, that's

[00:32:06] Laura Hayes: not a one and

[00:32:06] Scott Eckart: done. No, no, it's not. No. It's not. But Laura Hayes is one of my favorite givers on the planet that I'm, that I know of.

[00:32:12] and so Sarah, let's talk about some of your, uh, favorite books.

[00:32:16] Sarah Robinson: You know, I love Mad- uh, Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell is really one of my- Yes

[00:32:20] favorite authors. thinking about anything that really educates me but also pushes me forward. I'm also a huge believer in positive psychology. Okay. So, Shawn Achor is a great- Okay ... author about those. And he, actually Oprah kinda, threw him into, um, super stardom with, The Happiness Advantage and Before Happiness, and those are two of my really kind of favorite authors- Mm-hmm

[00:32:49] because it's practical but great storytellers. So I love- Being able to use some of those stories in my [00:33:00] presentations. Mm-hmm. Because they're always based on research. Yes. Okay. These, these two are, very super well-educated and always sharing great research that is like, "Yeah, that's it.

[00:33:10] That's why that works. That's fascinating."

[00:33:13] Scott Eckart: So that's your grounding. And then one more, if I've not mentioned it to you, I think I have, is Unreasonable Hospitality. That's my new one.

[00:33:20] Amazing, amazing book. It's based in the restaurant industry, but there's a lot of things that carry over.

[00:33:27] Sarah Robinson: Now, we do have two books that Sarah wrote, what I'd love to hear about, so let's talk about those if we can please.

[00:33:33] Scott Eckart: Let's

[00:33:33] Sarah Robinson: start with Unstuck at Last. Okay. We've already talked about that word. And Unstuck at Last, uh, was the first book I wrote, and, it's my heart. I really, I really love this book. Mm-hmm. And part of it is, it's had more readership, and so I feel like it's helped more people, and that, also warms your heart as an author.

[00:33:55] Laura Hayes: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:56] Sarah Robinson: But it's also very personal, and so that, also [00:34:00] really resonates too. And it talks about really two different things that I think, um, many people struggle with. one is, um, feeling stuck. Hmm. Feeling not like myself. Yeah. Not at my peak. Maybe not identifiable on the street corner as somebody that was stuck , but internally knowing I'm not reaching the way I need to be.

[00:34:22] And- Denying different pieces of me.

[00:34:25] Scott Eckart: Okay.

[00:34:26] Sarah Robinson: And that, to me, is really the beauty and brilliance of strengths, is that you get a report in black and white that talks to you about what you do really well, and these are, may not be the terms that you would use to describe yourself. Certainly, when I read my report initially, I was a bit horrified.

[00:34:49] I'm not gonna lie. My number one was competition, and I associated competitive women with clawing, backstabbing-

[00:34:58] Scott Eckart: Or not positive things anyway.

[00:34:59] Sarah Robinson: [00:35:00] Seem... Yes. Right.

[00:35:00] Scott Eckart: Yes.

[00:35:01] Sarah Robinson: Yes. Yes. Well, I had a very chauvinistic- Hmm ... quite frankly, I'm, I'm embarrassed to say, idea- Hmm ... about what it meant to be a competitive woman.

[00:35:11] And, they weren't-

[00:35:12] Scott Eckart: Yeah ...

[00:35:12] Sarah Robinson: happy attributes. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Right? They weren't pleasant. They weren't ladylike. and so I had to come to terms with that. I call myself the, a wolf in sheep's clothing, and I, I looked in the mirror and I was like, "Bah."

[00:35:24] Crew: Yeah. That's funny.

[00:35:25] Yeah.

[00:35:25] Sarah Robinson: No, I really, no, I've high empathy. I don't. anyway, uh, kind of, kind of interesting. Sothat was my first book. And then Fresh Leadership is a book, my second book, Five Skills to Transform You and Your Team. And that was written from a place of, now what?

[00:35:41] Scott Eckart: Hmm.

[00:35:42] Sarah Robinson: You know your strengths.

[00:35:44] You have a team. Now what?

[00:35:45] Scott Eckart: when I worked with Dan Sullivan years ago, he talked about it as unique ability, and I love that term in that I was mentoring a, a young man, and we were trying to get him from point A to point B, and we were talking about StrengthsFinder, and before he started, he [00:36:00] said, "Well, what if I don't have any strengths?"

[00:36:01] I'm like, "Nope, nope. Time out. we're not going there. Okay?"

[00:36:04] Crew: And that is the beauty of that discovery and that unearthing process, and we're, we're g- we're gonna get there. but then he went on to say that if you can spend 80% of your day in your unique ability area, it produces energy

[00:36:19] Sarah Robinson: Do you know that Gallup has found that, uh, you only need to spend 20% of your day doing what you do best-

[00:36:26] Scott Eckart: Well,

[00:36:26] Sarah Robinson: even better ... to be, to be engaged.

[00:36:28] Scott Eckart: Yeah. To even better.

[00:36:29] Sarah Robinson: And that's, that's been a research that came out within the last 24 months, and everyone's like, "Where's this been?" Right?

[00:36:38] Scott Eckart: Right. Well, and so then- This is good, this is good news. Yeah. So then I talk to my business owner clients, and I'm like, "Laura, are we delegating appropriately?" And we've had some great conversations about that. Yep, yep. Right? Mm-hmm. And a house manager, and other things- Mm-hmm ... that are just... And so then you offload that, so I can do more in my uni- unique ability area, and it just gives more passion, and more energy, and more [00:37:00] ideas.

[00:37:00] Laura Hayes: shout out to Dan Sullivan, Who Not How.

[00:37:02] Scott Eckart: Right.

[00:37:02] Laura Hayes: Love that book. Yes. Sara is a who. When I was reading that, and instead of, "Oh, how am I gonna have other people do what I do?" That's not the question. Right. Who?

[00:37:12] And I secretly wanted it to be her. And so when I called her asking for advice, quote-unquote, about, "I'm gonna grow this year.

[00:37:20] Who do you think I could maybe lean into?" Mm. And she goes- It was a

[00:37:23] Scott Eckart: setup, Sara.

[00:37:23] she's like, "Actually, I'm available." Like really? And I hit the roof. But she was a who from that. Yes, yes. Many other things have come out of that book. Yes. To your point.

[00:37:31] Yes.

[00:37:32] Laura Hayes: The discipline of delegation.

[00:37:34] Mm-hmm. Yeah. Which literally sit on your hands and delegate.

[00:37:36] Scott Eckart: so Laura, what are you most excited about as you think about kind of where you are now, and you have this really great process, and people are learning about you, and you're getting, you know, much more, known, um, after these five years, and you've made am- amazing progress.

[00:37:52] What are you most excited about as you look at continuing to transform leadership?

[00:37:57] Laura Hayes: I am most excited about the growth [00:38:00] of, I will say, the univers- universal word team.

[00:38:03] Crew: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:03] Laura Hayes: I think of the women I have on staff, and to see when I delegate, they grow. When I have ideas and they have ideas, and we workshop them- Mm-hmm

[00:38:12] they grow. Yeah. And I have zillions of stories of seeing that happen. And then I think of the teams that I have the honor to coach and to influence, and I see how far they've come and how far they still can go. And so especially in the last year and a half, we've added in this layer of one-on-one coaching in executive lev- level, and then, like, your supervisors- Mm-hmm

[00:38:31] and managers- Mm-hmm ... under those. And when you have, "Here's the standard," so I'm coaching on the standard. Here's our common language. "Okay, here's how you're gonna put it into practice, and we're gonna," gift of accountability, help you walk into that. We call it accountability coaching. Marrying that together, and we've just now done it for a short amount of time.

[00:38:50] Just now I would say a total of 10 months

[00:38:53] Sarah Robinson: Okay

[00:38:53] Laura Hayes: To see how far they've come and to see what their future can be, that's what I'm excited about. Those two pieces [00:39:00] together are gonna help people go so much further, so much faster. '

[00:39:03] Scott Eckart: Cause you've, have a really great quote about accountability,

[00:39:06] You don't have a problem with accountability. You have confusion. People want to win. So the fact that if our managers aren't speaking expectations, they're not setting the example, and they're not using an accountable language, everyone's confused. So you don't have a problem with accountability.

[00:39:21] Laura Hayes: You have a management problem. Let's get un-confused.

[00:39:23] Scott Eckart: Set your ground rules. Get your shared language together. Like, we can do this. I can help.

[00:39:27] So I know you had some questions.

[00:39:29] Sarah Robinson: I love, um, your relationship with Laura. I have a little envy.

[00:39:34] Do you? Okay. I'm a little green. I hope I don't look disgusting because it's ... I think it's seeping up to my neckline right now. I'll, I'll cover up a little bit, but very exciting what you guys are doing together. But when I think about different stages of my own entrepreneurship- Mm-hmm ... and how I would've used you, my concern for, for you and how you would've been annoyed with me-

[00:39:59] Scott Eckart: [00:40:00] Okay

[00:40:00] Sarah Robinson: profusely is I would've been, "So, so it's gonna work, right? It's fine? It's good? You like it? And then what? You ... Uh, can you promise me it's gonna work? Is it gonna work? Is it gonna work? Help me. I need you to promise me that every ... These are really, really, really good ideas, 'cause you know what? Someone yesterday, they said something mean."

[00:40:18] Scott Eckart: Yeah. And I got my feelings hurt.

[00:40:20] Sarah Robinson: Mm. Yeah. And then, and then I was having ... It was spiraling a little bit, and then I woke up in the morning, I was excited again. What should I do?

[00:40:27] Scott Eckart: I would have said, "Sarah, if I'd known how hard it was gonna be to start and run a business, I would never have done it."

[00:40:34] But if I'd known how well it turned out, I would've started sooner.

[00:40:38] Sarah Robinson: Wow.

[00:40:39] Scott Eckart: Okay?

[00:40:40] Sarah Robinson: That's a, that's really good advice.

[00:40:42] Scott Eckart: it's not a cliche. It's not a, it's, it, I mean it from the, the depth of, of my heart because

[00:40:49] this individual, who is one of my primary mentors, business partner, and a cornerman I call him, he did s- a lot of things for me, but two primary things. One is he gave me the [00:41:00] permission to succeed.

[00:41:01] Sarah Robinson: I did not grow up around entrepreneurs, as I mentioned earlier, and I had mostly dream killers on the sideline, people saying, "You can't. You can't. You can't." And I believed them And then the second thing that because of, he never let me quit. And I wanted to because it was too hard, and people told me no, and I got my little feelings hurt.

[00:41:27] Scott Eckart: But you know what's the best thing about no?

[00:41:29] Sarah Robinson: Tell me.

[00:41:30] Scott Eckart: Is it makes you stronger. And then I learned to ask people to tell me no.

[00:41:37] Sarah Robinson: Wow.

[00:41:38] Scott Eckart: Talk about-

[00:41:39] Sarah Robinson: Radical ...

[00:41:40] Scott Eckart: changing the script.

[00:41:42] Laura Hayes: So he taught me that, and you and I had a meeting a few weeks ago, and that's exactly what I said.

[00:41:47] Sarah Robinson: You did. You did.

[00:41:48] Scott Eckart: Right? Because why do we let people have more power than they should have over us?

[00:41:55] Sarah Robinson: Because we care more than they care. we need them to care more than [00:42:00] we care.

[00:42:00] Scott Eckart: Yes. That's exactly right. And that is not, in fact, true. Because if Laura were to say no to me, that just frees up a space for someone else- Mm-hmm

[00:42:11] that I have not met yet. And remember this, this is the other thing I tell especially young ones, people need to meet you, they just don't know it yet. For sure. Right? People need to meet the two of you, they just don't know it yet. Mm-hmm.

[00:42:26] Sarah Robinson: And it's not arrogance, it's confidence. Yeah. And there's a big difference between the two, right? So if someone comes to me, which they have, almost every time I get an opportunity to speak, I will have people that will sign up to meet with me, and they say, "Scott, I have an idea.

[00:42:41] Scott Eckart: I've never told anybody this before." And I say, "I'm honored."

[00:42:45] Crew: Mm-hmm. "

[00:42:45] Scott Eckart: What is it?" Sure. And they say, "I wanna do this thing. What do you think?" And I'm like, "Yeah." And then they're like, "Really?" And I'm like, "Why do you say really? do you not think it's a good idea?" [00:43:00] And then we begin to, to lay it out.

[00:43:02] So- That's

[00:43:02] Sarah Robinson: great ...

[00:43:03] Scott Eckart: i, I just think that if people have these ideas... And that's what's amazing about our, business economy here- Mm-hmm ... you know, in the US, that really 80% of our economy runs on the back of us- Mm-hmm. Right ... on small business. Yep. We'll never be on the stock exchange.

[00:43:18] It's never publicly traded. Yep. We're little league coaches. We're Sunday school teachers. We're mentors. We're all the things in addition to running these businesses. Mm-hmm. Right?

[00:43:28] Sarah Robinson: Yep.

[00:43:28] Scott Eckart: And we make communities run. We make... You know, we're philanthropists. We're all the things. And that's, that's a really exciting place to be, and that's why I do what I do.

[00:43:38] Sarah Robinson: Is that helpful?

[00:43:39] I love the answer short and long.

[00:43:42] Because while I tell myself what I said to you, which was, " They need to care more than I care." Mm-hmm. Right? That, that's where the power is. Right. Who cares the most. Right. It's, it's sometimes hard for me to, to flip it.

[00:43:58] Scott Eckart: your verbal [00:44:00] cue- is, is a great way to make that happen.

[00:44:03] So what are you most excited about moving forward as you've joined forces?

[00:44:06] Sarah Robinson: There's some partnerships- Yeah ... that Laura and I are talking about. Mm-hmm. And some businesses that are a little bit different than her model-

[00:44:13] Scott Eckart: Mm-hmm ...

[00:44:13] Sarah Robinson: that I'd like to introduce- Yeah, yeah ... to Ground Rules- Mm-hmm

[00:44:15] now that I'm much more knowledgeable and confident- Mm-hmm ... about- Mm-hmm ... the way Ground Rules rolls and what we can deliver. I feel much more excited to be in the sales side- Yeah ... again.

[00:44:29] Scott Eckart: Business development, right? And-

[00:44:30] Sarah Robinson: Yeah ... and so, yeah, business, I mean, it's fun when- Yeah ... when you're super confident about- Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

[00:44:37] what comes after- Mm-hmm ... you're done. Yeah. Right? Yeah. When, really, you know, you're never done, but- Right. Right ... how, what, what does growth look like?

[00:44:44] Scott Eckart: Yeah.

[00:44:44] Sarah Robinson: Yeah. How would that change your business? Yeah. Yeah. What problems would this solve for people? Yeah. And being really confident that, you know, work the plan, you got this.

[00:44:53] Scott Eckart: So last question for you, Laura. I know you're very passionate about supporting women in business, um, just across the board. [00:45:00] especially for our listeners today, what, kind of last words would you like to share with them and listeners, and how do you wanna encourage, continue to encourage women in business?

[00:45:09] Laura Hayes: Well, I have two women in mind who, over the last few years, would ask me about their ideas, but wouldn't launch, and wouldn't launch- Mm ... and wouldn't launch. And I said, "Okay, when you do launch, you're going to say, 'Wish I would've done this earlier.'" And we all had lunch a few months ago and both said the same thing.

[00:45:23] I said, "I know. If you had done it earlier..." And I told them both the quote from CJ. I said, "Here's the thing. If you're not embarrassed by the first draft, you've waited too long." And so to the point earlier, I mean, of course there's fear going in.

[00:45:35] Scott Eckart: If it was easy, everybody would do it. Right. There's a McDonald's in every corner.

[00:45:38] Laura Hayes: Try to find a Whole Foods. Yeah. Like, right. Right. Yeah. It's not easy. But find your, find your tribe and jump in. And I mean, I can say that this side of the table- Sure. Right ... you know, five years later, but I had enough people in my corner who I had vetted it out, and my backup plan was, "I'm just gonna go get a full-time job."

[00:45:59] Like- Yeah ... that's [00:46:00] what I already had. Sure. although in my brain the risk was huge, the reality wasn't. And so the jump in, get your tribe, and try it out. Yeah. Even if it can be the side hustle at first, try it out.

[00:46:10] Scott Eckart: That's such great ... That's a great thought. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. So we're gonna make sure that people know how to connect with you, will be in the, in the show notes.

[00:46:18] just so appreciate your time, and both of you, and I know great things are happening and great things are coming. And, uh, so check out the books that are here, and, uh, we look forward to tracking your progress. So thank you both.

[00:46:31] Laura Hayes: Thank you. Thanks for having

[00:46:33] Sarah Robinson: us. This was so fun.

[00:46:34] Stereo Mix: during today's session, there are three things that really stuck out to me. Number one, take the time to know your signature strengths. Use a coach if you have to, or look up StrengthsFinder 2.0. Number two, if you're not embarrassed by your first business plan, then you're not doing it right.

[00:46:52] Scott Eckart: Just get started before you're ready. And number three, give people what they need, not [00:47:00] just what they want. Sometimes people just want a faster horse when what they really need is a car

[00:47:06] Head to the show notes of this episode to find links to connect with Ground Rules Coaching and Laura Hayes and Sarah Robinson. And also special thanks to my in-studio production crew, Mr. Drew Olson and Mr. Travis Collins. I couldn't do it without you guys. And also to Mr.

[00:47:26] John Millspaugh for creating amazing special music for the intro and outro. John, thank you so much. And remember, the future is bright. I'll see you next time

[00:47:40] Thank you for listening today. If you like what you've heard, please join us in the Velocity Network and sign up@www.velocoaches.com, which is a gathering of entrepreneurs, business owners, and people who desire to learn more about running and owning a business.