Jason:
Welcome to Free to Learn, a podcast exploring the stories of formerly incarcerated college students. Adrian Price, a student at Santa Fe College and a member of the Justice Club has been a force of nature. This podcast is in large part, the product of his desire to shine a spotlight on the needs of formerly incarcerated students. Over the course of his discussion, you'll get a sense of his passion for social justice and the efforts he's making to pay it forward. His optimism in the face of some significant obstacles is inspiring, and his story illustrates the power of meeting the right people at the right time.
My name is Jason Frank. I'm an instructional designer at Santa Fe College, and I'm interested in better understanding how we can create a learning environment that better meets the needs of these students. The first step to good design is listening to the people you're working to support. So let's hear what Adrian has to say.
Adrian, before we get started, I'd like you to tell us a little bit about yourself.
Adrian:
Oh, well, Adrian Price, Adrian Durrell Price, born 1985, January the fourth, on a Friday on campus. So I am a Gator born at [inaudible 00:01:21] at UF, so I'm definitely a very big Gator fan. My first love was football, so if you know me, you know I love football. So just being young, having a lot of aspirations: playing football, to be great, to be a family changer, coming from low income to hopefully wealthy was the dream. That was the American dream.
Yeah, so that's me as a child. As a grownup now, not having obtained those things, I want to ensure or give the younger ones a better opportunity to achieve what I didn't accomplish. So that's Adrian Price in a nutshell.
Jason:
So where are you going to school right now?
Adrian:
Santa Fe College.
Jason:
Okay. So how did you decide on Santa Fe?
Adrian:
Well, being from Gainesville, Santa Fe was always known as a prestigious school, community college. So the relationship of me being here and me knowing the reputation of Santa Fe and knowing that it's nothing short of any other education, that's what brought me here at Santa Fe, and obviously, the opportunity to advance my life economically.
Jason:
What are you majoring in?
Adrian:
Radiology. So my hopes is to be a part of the radiology program, which is a two-year program to become a tech: X-rays, MRIs, haven't decided if I want to do cancer yet. I think that's a very depressing field in that subject, so yeah.
Jason:
Why did you decide on that?
Adrian:
Well, I decided because it's the medical field. And the number one cause of bankruptcy in America is health bills. So if you can't beat 'em, join them. So I know I'll always have a job and I can go any place in the world and administer my job and my profession. So I think it's very great job security and the pay as well.
Jason:
Excellent. And this may sound a little off, but tell me something that brings you a lot of joy right now.
Adrian:
What brings me a lot of joy? What brings me a lot of joy, I think, from a personal standpoint, is anytime I accomplish any goals, especially long-term goals. That brings me great joy. A proverb says pretty much, "That when you set hope in something and you don't accomplish it, the heart becomes sick. But when the desire's accomplished, it is a tree of life." So I think that goes for anybody personally. And to see other people reach their goals, if I can help that happen, that brings great joy to my heart. And I think that's what my life consists of, is me trying to obtain my personal goals and helping others obtain theirs as well.
Jason:
Okay, thanks. So going back, when you were in prison, what kind of educational opportunities did you have, what kind of opportunities did you have to pursue goals?
Adrian:
Oh, well, upon my sentencing... Oh, before also, I wanted to become electrician before my conviction. That didn't happen, obviously. So I expressed that to one of the officers, classification officers, when I first got into prison and they actually sent me to a prison that allowed for me to do that. So I took a two-year course in electrical wiring. Yeah, so I took a two-year course in electrical wiring. I always wanted college. I always wanted to seek that higher education. So that was beginning, but obviously that class, that vocation I took, it was only a certificate. So it didn't pretty much help me too much, but I was able to at least accomplish completion of that, so yeah.
Jason:
Were there any other opportunities for learning while you were in there?
Adrian:
There were, but after the first vocation, obtaining that certificate and then learning that it wasn't any good, I guess, once I was released, it was just like food for thought, I guess. It kind of discouraged me
into taking anything else in prison, per se. So I just waited. My heart was set on waiting until I get out and trying to plan for that.
Jason:
Your experience with the certificate program, do you feel like it prepared you for college in any way? Did it help get you ready?
Adrian:
Well, I think the diligence and integrity that I had to display to complete it because it was more like work at your own pace. So I completed a four-year course in one year. So just the diligence, like I said, and the integrity to commit to it each and every day. It combated the negative effects of institutionalism, which is you lose a sense of urgency to get up, to do anything, to have diligence, because you're told to shower, you're told to eat, so you don't have to think about too many things. You don't have to make any decisions yourself. You're told what to do. So me doing that, I think it helped me in that way specifically, yeah.
Jason:
Now, when you decided that you were going to go to college, did you have any support, friends, family? Did you know people who had graduated? What kind of support did you have in terms of pursuing that?
Adrian:
Well, I think it's a sector that a lot of people don't fully understand unless they're in it. The low income sector where a lot of us who grew up in that low income background, there is no influence toward seeking higher education because there's nobody around you that actually went down that road. So it's like you're taking a lonely journey. So especially being in prison, just wanting to go to college seemed far-fetched. So when I got out, I kind of forgot about going to school initially, but my plan was to enroll in school like a month or two after, no longer than a year, after post incarceration. So what happened was, I went to what they call a re-entry program, and in that reentry program, they teach you obviously skills to help your transition. So in that program, they had access to more information that you usually wouldn't have in the regular prison. And the library had four books, thick books, full of careers.
So I told myself I want to do a two-year associate degree, and I wanted it to be good paying. So I looked through all of them and looked for the requirements. And one common denominator was the felony factor. Once they do the background check, I wouldn't be eligible to do it. So that discouraged me from wanting to go to college, period. But this guy named Prince Lamey, he's from Nigeria. And I became good friends through him through church, and so he would tell me, "Hey, just try it out. You never know. We're believers so you never know, man, just put faith. You never know what'll happen." So I'm like, "Okay, I understand what he talking about. I've read it a thousand times. Okay, I hear you." But my reality says that I can't do it. I can't obtain the occupational licensure for anything that I want to go to school for.
But he didn't quit. So eventually, I ended up enrolling in Santa Fe and trying out this college, what I always wanted to do. So to answer your question, I know it was long, but it's like the outside influences wasn't heavy. It was always an internal, for me, influence to want to exceed the norm. And it may have came from, like I told you before, me being good in football and wanted to enter a sector that my family wasn't in, wanted to save the family financially. And me being good throughout the years, a lot of people placed hope in me doing that. So just probably having that attitude to not settle for less, but to exceed expectations is probably what fueled inside me the whole time, even those 11 1/2 years of
prison, with wanting to attend college. And like I said, I was discouraged temporarily, but Prince ignited that fight once more, and I just...
Jason:
So how has Prince continued to help and be a support to you?
Adrian:
Well, Prince, Prince is a king maker, I would say. Prince is the type of guy that he recognizes the potential in people, and he cultivates it. He molds it, he shapes it, he waters it, however you want to put it. That's what he does. And he knows it. And as many people he do this with, even in his past, even in Nigeria. And so he definitely is a great influence. He's the reason why I'm the president of the Justice Club. He's the reason why I'm here speaking to you right now, telling you my story. So yeah, Prince is the reason why, and he's a constant influence.
Jason:
So having that right person, that right time, really makes all the difference.
Adrian:
Yes.
Jason:
That's fantastic. And you've talked a little bit about this, but what was most exciting to you about this, about attending college, the idea of attending college?
Adrian:
Well, like you say, just accomplishing that goal of actually enrolling and walking into that first class, trying not to get emotional. But walking into that first class, like I said, just the background with me as a child, going to college where I'm from is kind of farfetched. Even though it's at hand, people just don't go. It doesn't seem like something that people can do. Coming from that and then going to prison. People are not talking about college, who's going to college, who's talking about college in prison. Okay, I hear you. That's just something that sounds good. Yeah, I'm become a millionaire, billionaire. You're going to college, I'm going to become a billionaire. So it's kind of like a farfetched thing, but when you walk into that, people use the word surreal all the time. Well, I guess I use it now. It was a surreal moment. And just being able to be in that classroom, I was just so appreciative. I have accomplished the goal. And so it was a wonderful experience being able to step into my dream.
Jason:
Do you remember what that class was? The first class?
Adrian:
The first class. The first class, let me think of the course. It was a math class. I don't remember the professor class, but it was math, which is my favorite subject. So I was very comfortable in that math class and I was ready to knock it out, yeah.
Jason:
Oh, fantastic. What did you worry most about when you set that goal to attend college? What was most intimidating about that?
Adrian:
What was most intimidating was, am I doing this for nothing? Is this another failed attempt? Is this another discouragement? When you've been on the bottom for so long, it's kind of like you get used to it and it seems like it becomes less of a reality to go any higher. Sometimes people give up, but that's why you got perseverance. So yeah, I think that's best way to explain it.
Jason:
So knowing what you know now, having been in school for a few semesters, you're making progress on your degree. Is there anything that you would've done differently? Is there any advice that you would give your past self about-
Adrian:
How far back past?
Jason:
Say back when you were in prison, as you were starting to think about this and starting to make these plans?
Adrian:
I don't think I could tell myself anything different. I think I took advantage of the resources that were available, and that may be the problem, there is not many resources available. So it's nothing I could tell myself, I don't think. Maybe start college earlier. I would probably give myself advice on the financial process, what to expect in class, the norms. I would tell myself, if I could, I may have wrote a letter to a Santa Fe advisor and got more advice on mainly I think the financial burden. Yeah, because that's what you think about most getting out prison. And to be told that, "Hey, they have this financial aid thing that will secure you if you're not able to secure yourself." So probably just going through the process of securing yourself financially before school, and then I definitely would have started earlier if I knew more about that process.
Jason:
And we talked a little bit about why you chose Santa Fe. Did you apply to any other colleges?
Adrian:
No.
Jason:
No. So Santa Fe was your one thing? How much time before you actually started college did you begin the application process?
Adrian:
Well, funny thing is, I actually did the application in 2000 and maybe six. So I still had the same student number from 2006. So I was registered in the database already. I just had to go through the disciplinary board. So that was the only process I had left, and obviously, doing the financial aid, securing financial assistance. That was the only two things I had to do.
Jason:
So tell me about the process of going through with the disciplinary board. What was that like? What was that process like?
Adrian:
Well, the process, I didn't know what to think. I didn't know what to think at all. I can say that I have confidence in my speech, in my presence, in my personality. So I think that helped me. I wasn't going to be discouraged or I wasn't going to be intimidated in front of anybody. So it was maybe just the first couple of minutes of awkwardness. I know they're looking at me, they're looking at my past, they're looking at my crime. They're like, "Okay, what has this guy got to say to us?" But I know after that first five minutes that I'd be okay.
Jason:
Okay. And what kind of questions did they ask you?
Adrian:
I remember one specific question they asked me, on the lines of, it was all about what I did and who I am now. So that's the main thing they're going to hammer pretty much. And it makes you feel like, when you're going through that process, not saying they're doing it intentionally, but it kind of makes you think like, "Okay, you want to do good. You say you're good but prove it. Prove to us that you're no longer bad." And I'm like, "Just me coming up here should prove that I'm no longer bad if you look at my history." So they asked the question on the lines of, "What changed you? What evidence do you have that you have changed? What motivated you for this change that you're speaking of?" And I just went back to my faith because that's what started a different mentality in me, was my faith.
So my thinking process, all my endeavors, is built upon those principles. So I kind of expressed that. And that's kind of like a cliche to say. So when I'm saying, and I know they're thinking, "Okay, this is what everybody... You may have been coached to say this." So I think it's just in the process, just kind of feeling like walking on eggshells. I don't want to offend anybody. Then in normal speech, outside of people knowing that I'm formerly incarcerated, normal speech, you're not looking to not offend anybody. So I think just that process of walking on eggshells. I don't want to offend. I make them think the wrong thing about me by saying something, you can't make a mistake seems like, so yeah.
Jason:
Did you go before a parole board?
Adrian:
As far as out of-
Jason:
Before applying, before you were released, did you go before a parole board where they asked similar questions, or was that-
Adrian:
No. The people who usually go on the parole board is those who once had life, and they're trying to prove that their worthy of getting out. So the process that they usually take the average inmate through is like a program. It's like a reentry program, reentry curriculum, teach them about credit and how to do a resume, and just certain things like that.
Jason:
Okay. So up until that point, no one had really asked you that question, how do we know you're a good person, right?
Adrian:
Yeah. It was always-
Jason:
This was the first time that somebody put that question to you?
Adrian:
It's always voluntary, but it's also a reality in the job market. Just today, because I'm only taking one class online this semester so I went to a job, a job that I really don't want to do. And I think that happens a lot being a convicted felon. I apply anyway, but I just know that, "Okay, they're probably going to go with the person who has never been in trouble versus me." So even today when I went before, it was a moving company, moving furniture, they asked me did I have a conviction? And here we go again. I have to prove that I'm a good person. So it's always something that's always up there. So I can say that I was asked the question before Santa Fe, but not in prison.
Jason:
Okay. Wow. Okay. When you were settling application materials, did you need any help? When you were choosing classes, how did you go about that process? How did you go about the process looking into financial aid? Where did you go?
Adrian:
To myself. But I was referred through Prince, once again. I was referred through Prince to talk to a guy at Santa Fe, an advisor. I can't think of his name at the time. But I was referred to a specific advisor to talk to through Prince. And I didn't really understand the process still. And I kind of went with him like, "Hey, this is what I want to do, whatever classes it takes to do that, then hey, just let me know." So I went through him until... I did it again for the second semester, but the third semester I was like, "I need to do this myself." So I did it. And it was mainly because I feel like my lack of knowledge cost me a semester because he signed me up, he did a great job, but he signed me up for a class that I feel like I shouldn't have been signed up for and it put me back a semester.
It's like I took it for nothing, that's how I feel. So I think I would've did the scheduling a little bit better if I understood how. But just the average person getting out of prison or being formerly incarcerated, you don't have access to the internet, let alone Windows and Office 365, that's like Chinese, especially when
you've done 11 1/2 years. I mean, I knew about whatever it was in 2006, maybe AOL, maybe was still floating around, maybe, right? So it was definitely a huge transition. I don't even remember what Windows, might have been 7 that was out then, I don't remember. But definitely not the Windows right now. So it was kind of intimidating, even though I have the basic computer skills, but up-to-date skills I didn't have. Navigating websites thoroughly, I didn't have. So it's like I'm going to really leave it up to the professionals. But I think if definitely I would've been prepared to do it, then that semester wouldn't have been wasted, I felt like.
Jason:
So where did you go to get help learning the technology?
Adrian:
Well, I didn't get help anywhere. I actually got computer skills through a job I had, the moving company. I worked for a moving company for three years, Gator Moving and Storage. I started out as a mover. And that's a funny story. This is a podcast, I can tell my story.
Jason:
You can tell your story.
Adrian:
So funny story is, I said to myself, "You have to evaluate when you're getting out what job helps me most." I always thought to myself that I was a great thinker. I love, I get consumed in deep thought, it's soothing. It soothes me to think deeply. And my friends recognized that when I was small, they used to call me The Professor because I always try to take them into a deep conversation. So I always thought thoroughly about what I wanted to do. So that helped me personally. So evaluating jobs that would help me when I got out, said, "Well, I'm going to need furniture when I get out because I don't have a lot of money. And I would like to travel because I was locked up for 11 1/2 years. I should work for a moving company where I can get people who don't want to use their couch, don't want to use their bed set. I got a washer and dryer like, oh wow, this helps me."
So I worked for a moving company for three years. The last year I was advanced to a office position. So I was advanced to a office position where I got more familiar, or back familiar, with Windows and Office, basic computer skills on a PC because I was using cell phones, obviously. And that's another topic. I'm looking at people texting like, "Wow, can I do that?" But I eventually learned how to text too. But yeah, I would say I was fortunate sure that the job gave me an opportunity to prep a little before college.
Jason:
So yeah. Again, what I'm hearing in this story, the desire was there, but you also had a couple of really fortunate opportunities, like meeting Prince and getting this promotion at this job, right?
Adrian:
Yes.
Jason:
Without those factors, how difficult would it have been?
Adrian:
It would've been a little more difficult. I probably would've struggled with the classes a little bit more. Just learning Office. I know it seems kind of small to people who have been operating it for so long, but I had to learn simple things like Control F. When I found that out in the middle of my first semester, I'm like, "I could have been getting 100s on my tests." So just certain things like that I had to get back familiar with, but you don't look at it, a lot of people don't look at it. Or even Windows just splitting the screen on the Windows PCs, just small things like that help. And they are great leverages when it comes to school 'cause most things are done online. So I definitely struggled in my first semester with getting familiar with all of that, and Canvas, and navigating all those operating systems, yeah.
Jason:
So you mentioned interviewing, how are you paying for college? How's that?
Adrian:
Well, a minority grant is the only grant I'm receiving at this time. Hopefully that can change. But for the first semester I was eligible for the Pell Grant. But the advancement at the job caused me to make more. And so I was no longer eligible for the Pell Grant status. And also with that, I know there's other opportunities with getting scholarships, it's intimidating and it seems like a long process. But I kind of learned more about that the second semester also. All the scholarships that were available to me, knowing how to find scholarships, which I'm still learning how to find scholarships.
Jason:
Yeah, that's great. Now, do you have a specific timeline for finishing your degree?
Adrian:
Well, I wanted to do it in three years. I wanted to take the prereqs for one year and then take the two-year program. But that didn't work out because of the fall term scheduling. So what happened was, I was still two classes short of that one year mark being eligible to apply for the application to get in the program. So I have to wait another year. So the timeline would be '25 now when it would've been '24.
Jason:
So starting in the fall.
Adrian:
So starting in the fall.
Jason:
Another two years.
Adrian:
Yes.
Jason:
Okay, great. And you're taking one class now and then are you planning on taking anything in the summer?
Adrian:
Well, no. I've completed all my prereqs.
Jason:
All the prereqs are done.
Adrian:
So I'm just waiting for that program. But I took online class just to stay enrolled to continue to be active on campus.
Jason:
Excellent. Yeah. So why was that important? Why was it important for you to still have that connection to campus?
Adrian:
Well, being the president of the Justice Club is one of them. So not about me 'cause with the 3.95 GPA, I'm actually putting it at risk, taking another class that I don't have to take. So it was about being active on campus as a student, maybe be Chief justice. A lot of people advocating for me to be that. So just being active and just being productive on campus as a student, trying to make the campus better.
Jason:
So how do you feel you make the campus better by being here?
Adrian:
Well, I think that, I don't know the word, but I guess my experience, my life, I think if it's protruded onto the campus, it represents what the campus may be lacking or understanding. So if I imprint my spirit onto Santa Fe, then maybe people like me, or similar to me, or the experience I had in life, maybe Santa Fe would be able to administer to them better. Maybe the students would be able to accept them better. We're all a body as people, when we're separated from each other, we're cripple, it's like losing a finger, it's like losing a hand. So I feel like I'm giving a pinky finger to Santa Fe and it's very needed.
Jason:
Thanks for sharing that. So you talked a little bit about that first class, the math class. Do you have any other thoughts or memories about your first day on campus and what you were excited about and what was intimidating or overwhelming to you?
Adrian:
Surprisingly, the map, the campus map pops up in my mind. That was probably the major distress. How do I find this building, looking at that online, trying to follow the map and see where I'm going. So I think that was the most exciting thing about that first day. Other than that, just being in class, it was good. It was just a great experience of being on campus and being normal because as a convicted felon, especially being in prison, you get treated second class.
And I like to relate it to, and this topic may seem a little sensitive, but it's the best way I've always thought over the years to relate it to, it's kind of like the Jim Crow era when you're in prison. You're second class. I can't shake the officer's hand. The officers are taught to not establish close relationships with us or they can lose their jobs. So with that being forced on you mentally and spiritually every day and fighting against that, it still takes a toll being second class. So to be able to partake in something that any regular citizen can partake in, which is going to school, that kind of make you feel normal, yeah.
Jason:
Were you late for any of your classes that first day?
Adrian:
No, I don't think so.
Jason:
Okay. So you were able to find everything. You were able to navigate that map.
Adrian:
I was able to find I think Math 1028 or something crazy like that. I was able to find it.
Jason:
So what was your impression of people at Santa Fe? Like the instructors or the staff or other people?
Adrian:
Well, that first teacher was great. I was amazed at how easy Canvas made student life, how easy Canvas made classes. It was very easy. Especially when I went to school, these things were not possible to do. Just taking the math class online, that was remarkable. Being able to take the quiz up to five times, this is easy. So I got an A in the class. I was so amazed at the convenience and how easy it is to see your papers get graded for your grades automatically... You know when I was in school in the past, you didn't know your grade through the whole class. You used to have to wait, what, nine weeks? But now I can know in moments. So it just made the school experience definitely advanced. And that was what's amazing to me.
Jason:
So stepping back, you were talking about this idea of feeling normal, right? That you were no longer second class citizen. So how open did you decide that you wanted to be about having been in prison?
Adrian:
Well, I think I'm a very open person, generally. I find myself to be an entertainer. I like entertaining people. I love people. I love culture. So it's easy to me to be open because I'm confident in who I am as a person. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that people are comfortable with talking on this subject. So for me to introduce this to anybody upfront, I don't think it's ideal. But what I like to do is, and it's always a sense in me to do greater than the average person because I'm carrying something on
my back, so I have to be greater. So when I say, "Hey, I did 11 1/2 years of prison," they're like, "Wow, how did that happen? You don't even look like it. You don't even talk like it." What does that look like? Yeah, what's that talk like? So I'm very open and I like to surprise people with it.
Jason:
Okay.
Adrian:
Yes. I like to surprise people with it because I think for me to hold that in is robbing the world. For me to just enjoy my success in this transition is robbing the world. I got to give back to the world for people like me specifically and for others to be aware of people like me and leave opportunity open.
Jason:
I want to thank Adrian for coming in to talk with us. We'll hear more of his story in Part Two, and his hopes for the future. Funding for this program was provided through a grant from Florida Humanities with funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the Florida Humanities or the National Endowment for the Humanities. This episode was produced by Ann Thebaut and Lex Shelton. Thank you for listening.
Welcome to Free to Learn, a podcast exploring the stories of formerly incarcerated college students. Adrian Price, a student at Santa Fe College and a member of the Justice Club has been a force of nature. This podcast is in large part, the product of his desire to shine a spotlight on the needs of formerly incarcerated students. Over the course of his discussion, you'll get a sense of his passion for social justice and the efforts he's making to pay it forward. His optimism in the face of some significant obstacles is inspiring, and his story illustrates the power of meeting the right people at the right time.
My name is Jason Frank. I'm an instructional designer at Santa Fe College, and I'm interested in better understanding how we can create a learning environment that better meets the needs of these students. The first step to good design is listening to the people you're working to support. So let's hear what Adrian has to say.
Adrian, before we get started, I'd like you to tell us a little bit about yourself.
Adrian:
Oh, well, Adrian Price, Adrian Durrell Price, born 1985, January the fourth, on a Friday on campus. So I am a Gator born at [inaudible 00:01:21] at UF, so I'm definitely a very big Gator fan. My first love was football, so if you know me, you know I love football. So just being young, having a lot of aspirations: playing football, to be great, to be a family changer, coming from low income to hopefully wealthy was the dream. That was the American dream.
Yeah, so that's me as a child. As a grownup now, not having obtained those things, I want to ensure or give the younger ones a better opportunity to achieve what I didn't accomplish. So that's Adrian Price in a nutshell.
Jason:
So where are you going to school right now?
Adrian:
Santa Fe College.
Jason:
Okay. So how did you decide on Santa Fe?
Adrian:
Well, being from Gainesville, Santa Fe was always known as a prestigious school, community college. So the relationship of me being here and me knowing the reputation of Santa Fe and knowing that it's nothing short of any other education, that's what brought me here at Santa Fe, and obviously, the opportunity to advance my life economically.
Jason:
What are you majoring in?
Adrian:
Radiology. So my hopes is to be a part of the radiology program, which is a two-year program to become a tech: X-rays, MRIs, haven't decided if I want to do cancer yet. I think that's a very depressing field in that subject, so yeah.
Jason:
Why did you decide on that?
Adrian:
Well, I decided because it's the medical field. And the number one cause of bankruptcy in America is health bills. So if you can't beat 'em, join them. So I know I'll always have a job and I can go any place in the world and administer my job and my profession. So I think it's very great job security and the pay as well.
Jason:
Excellent. And this may sound a little off, but tell me something that brings you a lot of joy right now.
Adrian:
What brings me a lot of joy? What brings me a lot of joy, I think, from a personal standpoint, is anytime I accomplish any goals, especially long-term goals. That brings me great joy. A proverb says pretty much, "That when you set hope in something and you don't accomplish it, the heart becomes sick. But when the desire's accomplished, it is a tree of life." So I think that goes for anybody personally. And to see other people reach their goals, if I can help that happen, that brings great joy to my heart. And I think that's what my life consists of, is me trying to obtain my personal goals and helping others obtain theirs as well.
Jason:
Okay, thanks. So going back, when you were in prison, what kind of educational opportunities did you have, what kind of opportunities did you have to pursue goals?
Adrian:
Oh, well, upon my sentencing... Oh, before also, I wanted to become electrician before my conviction. That didn't happen, obviously. So I expressed that to one of the officers, classification officers, when I first got into prison and they actually sent me to a prison that allowed for me to do that. So I took a two-year course in electrical wiring. Yeah, so I took a two-year course in electrical wiring. I always wanted college. I always wanted to seek that higher education. So that was beginning, but obviously that class, that vocation I took, it was only a certificate. So it didn't pretty much help me too much, but I was able to at least accomplish completion of that, so yeah.
Jason:
Were there any other opportunities for learning while you were in there?
Adrian:
There were, but after the first vocation, obtaining that certificate and then learning that it wasn't any good, I guess, once I was released, it was just like food for thought, I guess. It kind of discouraged me
into taking anything else in prison, per se. So I just waited. My heart was set on waiting until I get out and trying to plan for that.
Jason:
Your experience with the certificate program, do you feel like it prepared you for college in any way? Did it help get you ready?
Adrian:
Well, I think the diligence and integrity that I had to display to complete it because it was more like work at your own pace. So I completed a four-year course in one year. So just the diligence, like I said, and the integrity to commit to it each and every day. It combated the negative effects of institutionalism, which is you lose a sense of urgency to get up, to do anything, to have diligence, because you're told to shower, you're told to eat, so you don't have to think about too many things. You don't have to make any decisions yourself. You're told what to do. So me doing that, I think it helped me in that way specifically, yeah.
Jason:
Now, when you decided that you were going to go to college, did you have any support, friends, family? Did you know people who had graduated? What kind of support did you have in terms of pursuing that?
Adrian:
Well, I think it's a sector that a lot of people don't fully understand unless they're in it. The low income sector where a lot of us who grew up in that low income background, there is no influence toward seeking higher education because there's nobody around you that actually went down that road. So it's like you're taking a lonely journey. So especially being in prison, just wanting to go to college seemed far-fetched. So when I got out, I kind of forgot about going to school initially, but my plan was to enroll in school like a month or two after, no longer than a year, after post incarceration. So what happened was, I went to what they call a re-entry program, and in that reentry program, they teach you obviously skills to help your transition. So in that program, they had access to more information that you usually wouldn't have in the regular prison. And the library had four books, thick books, full of careers.
So I told myself I want to do a two-year associate degree, and I wanted it to be good paying. So I looked through all of them and looked for the requirements. And one common denominator was the felony factor. Once they do the background check, I wouldn't be eligible to do it. So that discouraged me from wanting to go to college, period. But this guy named Prince Lamey, he's from Nigeria. And I became good friends through him through church, and so he would tell me, "Hey, just try it out. You never know. We're believers so you never know, man, just put faith. You never know what'll happen." So I'm like, "Okay, I understand what he talking about. I've read it a thousand times. Okay, I hear you." But my reality says that I can't do it. I can't obtain the occupational licensure for anything that I want to go to school for.
But he didn't quit. So eventually, I ended up enrolling in Santa Fe and trying out this college, what I always wanted to do. So to answer your question, I know it was long, but it's like the outside influences wasn't heavy. It was always an internal, for me, influence to want to exceed the norm. And it may have came from, like I told you before, me being good in football and wanted to enter a sector that my family wasn't in, wanted to save the family financially. And me being good throughout the years, a lot of people placed hope in me doing that. So just probably having that attitude to not settle for less, but to exceed expectations is probably what fueled inside me the whole time, even those 11 1/2 years of
prison, with wanting to attend college. And like I said, I was discouraged temporarily, but Prince ignited that fight once more, and I just...
Jason:
So how has Prince continued to help and be a support to you?
Adrian:
Well, Prince, Prince is a king maker, I would say. Prince is the type of guy that he recognizes the potential in people, and he cultivates it. He molds it, he shapes it, he waters it, however you want to put it. That's what he does. And he knows it. And as many people he do this with, even in his past, even in Nigeria. And so he definitely is a great influence. He's the reason why I'm the president of the Justice Club. He's the reason why I'm here speaking to you right now, telling you my story. So yeah, Prince is the reason why, and he's a constant influence.
Jason:
So having that right person, that right time, really makes all the difference.
Adrian:
Yes.
Jason:
That's fantastic. And you've talked a little bit about this, but what was most exciting to you about this, about attending college, the idea of attending college?
Adrian:
Well, like you say, just accomplishing that goal of actually enrolling and walking into that first class, trying not to get emotional. But walking into that first class, like I said, just the background with me as a child, going to college where I'm from is kind of farfetched. Even though it's at hand, people just don't go. It doesn't seem like something that people can do. Coming from that and then going to prison. People are not talking about college, who's going to college, who's talking about college in prison. Okay, I hear you. That's just something that sounds good. Yeah, I'm become a millionaire, billionaire. You're going to college, I'm going to become a billionaire. So it's kind of like a farfetched thing, but when you walk into that, people use the word surreal all the time. Well, I guess I use it now. It was a surreal moment. And just being able to be in that classroom, I was just so appreciative. I have accomplished the goal. And so it was a wonderful experience being able to step into my dream.
Jason:
Do you remember what that class was? The first class?
Adrian:
The first class. The first class, let me think of the course. It was a math class. I don't remember the professor class, but it was math, which is my favorite subject. So I was very comfortable in that math class and I was ready to knock it out, yeah.
Jason:
Oh, fantastic. What did you worry most about when you set that goal to attend college? What was most intimidating about that?
Adrian:
What was most intimidating was, am I doing this for nothing? Is this another failed attempt? Is this another discouragement? When you've been on the bottom for so long, it's kind of like you get used to it and it seems like it becomes less of a reality to go any higher. Sometimes people give up, but that's why you got perseverance. So yeah, I think that's best way to explain it.
Jason:
So knowing what you know now, having been in school for a few semesters, you're making progress on your degree. Is there anything that you would've done differently? Is there any advice that you would give your past self about-
Adrian:
How far back past?
Jason:
Say back when you were in prison, as you were starting to think about this and starting to make these plans?
Adrian:
I don't think I could tell myself anything different. I think I took advantage of the resources that were available, and that may be the problem, there is not many resources available. So it's nothing I could tell myself, I don't think. Maybe start college earlier. I would probably give myself advice on the financial process, what to expect in class, the norms. I would tell myself, if I could, I may have wrote a letter to a Santa Fe advisor and got more advice on mainly I think the financial burden. Yeah, because that's what you think about most getting out prison. And to be told that, "Hey, they have this financial aid thing that will secure you if you're not able to secure yourself." So probably just going through the process of securing yourself financially before school, and then I definitely would have started earlier if I knew more about that process.
Jason:
And we talked a little bit about why you chose Santa Fe. Did you apply to any other colleges?
Adrian:
No.
Jason:
No. So Santa Fe was your one thing? How much time before you actually started college did you begin the application process?
Adrian:
Well, funny thing is, I actually did the application in 2000 and maybe six. So I still had the same student number from 2006. So I was registered in the database already. I just had to go through the disciplinary board. So that was the only process I had left, and obviously, doing the financial aid, securing financial assistance. That was the only two things I had to do.
Jason:
So tell me about the process of going through with the disciplinary board. What was that like? What was that process like?
Adrian:
Well, the process, I didn't know what to think. I didn't know what to think at all. I can say that I have confidence in my speech, in my presence, in my personality. So I think that helped me. I wasn't going to be discouraged or I wasn't going to be intimidated in front of anybody. So it was maybe just the first couple of minutes of awkwardness. I know they're looking at me, they're looking at my past, they're looking at my crime. They're like, "Okay, what has this guy got to say to us?" But I know after that first five minutes that I'd be okay.
Jason:
Okay. And what kind of questions did they ask you?
Adrian:
I remember one specific question they asked me, on the lines of, it was all about what I did and who I am now. So that's the main thing they're going to hammer pretty much. And it makes you feel like, when you're going through that process, not saying they're doing it intentionally, but it kind of makes you think like, "Okay, you want to do good. You say you're good but prove it. Prove to us that you're no longer bad." And I'm like, "Just me coming up here should prove that I'm no longer bad if you look at my history." So they asked the question on the lines of, "What changed you? What evidence do you have that you have changed? What motivated you for this change that you're speaking of?" And I just went back to my faith because that's what started a different mentality in me, was my faith.
So my thinking process, all my endeavors, is built upon those principles. So I kind of expressed that. And that's kind of like a cliche to say. So when I'm saying, and I know they're thinking, "Okay, this is what everybody... You may have been coached to say this." So I think it's just in the process, just kind of feeling like walking on eggshells. I don't want to offend anybody. Then in normal speech, outside of people knowing that I'm formerly incarcerated, normal speech, you're not looking to not offend anybody. So I think just that process of walking on eggshells. I don't want to offend. I make them think the wrong thing about me by saying something, you can't make a mistake seems like, so yeah.
Jason:
Did you go before a parole board?
Adrian:
As far as out of-
Jason:
Before applying, before you were released, did you go before a parole board where they asked similar questions, or was that-
Adrian:
No. The people who usually go on the parole board is those who once had life, and they're trying to prove that their worthy of getting out. So the process that they usually take the average inmate through is like a program. It's like a reentry program, reentry curriculum, teach them about credit and how to do a resume, and just certain things like that.
Jason:
Okay. So up until that point, no one had really asked you that question, how do we know you're a good person, right?
Adrian:
Yeah. It was always-
Jason:
This was the first time that somebody put that question to you?
Adrian:
It's always voluntary, but it's also a reality in the job market. Just today, because I'm only taking one class online this semester so I went to a job, a job that I really don't want to do. And I think that happens a lot being a convicted felon. I apply anyway, but I just know that, "Okay, they're probably going to go with the person who has never been in trouble versus me." So even today when I went before, it was a moving company, moving furniture, they asked me did I have a conviction? And here we go again. I have to prove that I'm a good person. So it's always something that's always up there. So I can say that I was asked the question before Santa Fe, but not in prison.
Jason:
Okay. Wow. Okay. When you were settling application materials, did you need any help? When you were choosing classes, how did you go about that process? How did you go about the process looking into financial aid? Where did you go?
Adrian:
To myself. But I was referred through Prince, once again. I was referred through Prince to talk to a guy at Santa Fe, an advisor. I can't think of his name at the time. But I was referred to a specific advisor to talk to through Prince. And I didn't really understand the process still. And I kind of went with him like, "Hey, this is what I want to do, whatever classes it takes to do that, then hey, just let me know." So I went through him until... I did it again for the second semester, but the third semester I was like, "I need to do this myself." So I did it. And it was mainly because I feel like my lack of knowledge cost me a semester because he signed me up, he did a great job, but he signed me up for a class that I feel like I shouldn't have been signed up for and it put me back a semester.
It's like I took it for nothing, that's how I feel. So I think I would've did the scheduling a little bit better if I understood how. But just the average person getting out of prison or being formerly incarcerated, you don't have access to the internet, let alone Windows and Office 365, that's like Chinese, especially when
you've done 11 1/2 years. I mean, I knew about whatever it was in 2006, maybe AOL, maybe was still floating around, maybe, right? So it was definitely a huge transition. I don't even remember what Windows, might have been 7 that was out then, I don't remember. But definitely not the Windows right now. So it was kind of intimidating, even though I have the basic computer skills, but up-to-date skills I didn't have. Navigating websites thoroughly, I didn't have. So it's like I'm going to really leave it up to the professionals. But I think if definitely I would've been prepared to do it, then that semester wouldn't have been wasted, I felt like.
Jason:
So where did you go to get help learning the technology?
Adrian:
Well, I didn't get help anywhere. I actually got computer skills through a job I had, the moving company. I worked for a moving company for three years, Gator Moving and Storage. I started out as a mover. And that's a funny story. This is a podcast, I can tell my story.
Jason:
You can tell your story.
Adrian:
So funny story is, I said to myself, "You have to evaluate when you're getting out what job helps me most." I always thought to myself that I was a great thinker. I love, I get consumed in deep thought, it's soothing. It soothes me to think deeply. And my friends recognized that when I was small, they used to call me The Professor because I always try to take them into a deep conversation. So I always thought thoroughly about what I wanted to do. So that helped me personally. So evaluating jobs that would help me when I got out, said, "Well, I'm going to need furniture when I get out because I don't have a lot of money. And I would like to travel because I was locked up for 11 1/2 years. I should work for a moving company where I can get people who don't want to use their couch, don't want to use their bed set. I got a washer and dryer like, oh wow, this helps me."
So I worked for a moving company for three years. The last year I was advanced to a office position. So I was advanced to a office position where I got more familiar, or back familiar, with Windows and Office, basic computer skills on a PC because I was using cell phones, obviously. And that's another topic. I'm looking at people texting like, "Wow, can I do that?" But I eventually learned how to text too. But yeah, I would say I was fortunate sure that the job gave me an opportunity to prep a little before college.
Jason:
So yeah. Again, what I'm hearing in this story, the desire was there, but you also had a couple of really fortunate opportunities, like meeting Prince and getting this promotion at this job, right?
Adrian:
Yes.
Jason:
Without those factors, how difficult would it have been?
Adrian:
It would've been a little more difficult. I probably would've struggled with the classes a little bit more. Just learning Office. I know it seems kind of small to people who have been operating it for so long, but I had to learn simple things like Control F. When I found that out in the middle of my first semester, I'm like, "I could have been getting 100s on my tests." So just certain things like that I had to get back familiar with, but you don't look at it, a lot of people don't look at it. Or even Windows just splitting the screen on the Windows PCs, just small things like that help. And they are great leverages when it comes to school 'cause most things are done online. So I definitely struggled in my first semester with getting familiar with all of that, and Canvas, and navigating all those operating systems, yeah.
Jason:
So you mentioned interviewing, how are you paying for college? How's that?
Adrian:
Well, a minority grant is the only grant I'm receiving at this time. Hopefully that can change. But for the first semester I was eligible for the Pell Grant. But the advancement at the job caused me to make more. And so I was no longer eligible for the Pell Grant status. And also with that, I know there's other opportunities with getting scholarships, it's intimidating and it seems like a long process. But I kind of learned more about that the second semester also. All the scholarships that were available to me, knowing how to find scholarships, which I'm still learning how to find scholarships.
Jason:
Yeah, that's great. Now, do you have a specific timeline for finishing your degree?
Adrian:
Well, I wanted to do it in three years. I wanted to take the prereqs for one year and then take the two-year program. But that didn't work out because of the fall term scheduling. So what happened was, I was still two classes short of that one year mark being eligible to apply for the application to get in the program. So I have to wait another year. So the timeline would be '25 now when it would've been '24.
Jason:
So starting in the fall.
Adrian:
So starting in the fall.
Jason:
Another two years.
Adrian:
Yes.
Jason:
Okay, great. And you're taking one class now and then are you planning on taking anything in the summer?
Adrian:
Well, no. I've completed all my prereqs.
Jason:
All the prereqs are done.
Adrian:
So I'm just waiting for that program. But I took online class just to stay enrolled to continue to be active on campus.
Jason:
Excellent. Yeah. So why was that important? Why was it important for you to still have that connection to campus?
Adrian:
Well, being the president of the Justice Club is one of them. So not about me 'cause with the 3.95 GPA, I'm actually putting it at risk, taking another class that I don't have to take. So it was about being active on campus as a student, maybe be Chief justice. A lot of people advocating for me to be that. So just being active and just being productive on campus as a student, trying to make the campus better.
Jason:
So how do you feel you make the campus better by being here?
Adrian:
Well, I think that, I don't know the word, but I guess my experience, my life, I think if it's protruded onto the campus, it represents what the campus may be lacking or understanding. So if I imprint my spirit onto Santa Fe, then maybe people like me, or similar to me, or the experience I had in life, maybe Santa Fe would be able to administer to them better. Maybe the students would be able to accept them better. We're all a body as people, when we're separated from each other, we're cripple, it's like losing a finger, it's like losing a hand. So I feel like I'm giving a pinky finger to Santa Fe and it's very needed.
Jason:
Thanks for sharing that. So you talked a little bit about that first class, the math class. Do you have any other thoughts or memories about your first day on campus and what you were excited about and what was intimidating or overwhelming to you?
Adrian:
Surprisingly, the map, the campus map pops up in my mind. That was probably the major distress. How do I find this building, looking at that online, trying to follow the map and see where I'm going. So I think that was the most exciting thing about that first day. Other than that, just being in class, it was good. It was just a great experience of being on campus and being normal because as a convicted felon, especially being in prison, you get treated second class.
And I like to relate it to, and this topic may seem a little sensitive, but it's the best way I've always thought over the years to relate it to, it's kind of like the Jim Crow era when you're in prison. You're second class. I can't shake the officer's hand. The officers are taught to not establish close relationships with us or they can lose their jobs. So with that being forced on you mentally and spiritually every day and fighting against that, it still takes a toll being second class. So to be able to partake in something that any regular citizen can partake in, which is going to school, that kind of make you feel normal, yeah.
Jason:
Were you late for any of your classes that first day?
Adrian:
No, I don't think so.
Jason:
Okay. So you were able to find everything. You were able to navigate that map.
Adrian:
I was able to find I think Math 1028 or something crazy like that. I was able to find it.
Jason:
So what was your impression of people at Santa Fe? Like the instructors or the staff or other people?
Adrian:
Well, that first teacher was great. I was amazed at how easy Canvas made student life, how easy Canvas made classes. It was very easy. Especially when I went to school, these things were not possible to do. Just taking the math class online, that was remarkable. Being able to take the quiz up to five times, this is easy. So I got an A in the class. I was so amazed at the convenience and how easy it is to see your papers get graded for your grades automatically... You know when I was in school in the past, you didn't know your grade through the whole class. You used to have to wait, what, nine weeks? But now I can know in moments. So it just made the school experience definitely advanced. And that was what's amazing to me.
Jason:
So stepping back, you were talking about this idea of feeling normal, right? That you were no longer second class citizen. So how open did you decide that you wanted to be about having been in prison?
Adrian:
Well, I think I'm a very open person, generally. I find myself to be an entertainer. I like entertaining people. I love people. I love culture. So it's easy to me to be open because I'm confident in who I am as a person. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that people are comfortable with talking on this subject. So for me to introduce this to anybody upfront, I don't think it's ideal. But what I like to do is, and it's always a sense in me to do greater than the average person because I'm carrying something on
my back, so I have to be greater. So when I say, "Hey, I did 11 1/2 years of prison," they're like, "Wow, how did that happen? You don't even look like it. You don't even talk like it." What does that look like? Yeah, what's that talk like? So I'm very open and I like to surprise people with it.
Jason:
Okay.
Adrian:
Yes. I like to surprise people with it because I think for me to hold that in is robbing the world. For me to just enjoy my success in this transition is robbing the world. I got to give back to the world for people like me specifically and for others to be aware of people like me and leave opportunity open.
Jason:
I want to thank Adrian for coming in to talk with us. We'll hear more of his story in Part Two, and his hopes for the future. Funding for this program was provided through a grant from Florida Humanities with funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the Florida Humanities or the National Endowment for the Humanities. This episode was produced by Ann Thebaut and Lex Shelton. Thank you for listening.
