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[instrumental music plays] Even then have gotten like a couple comments of like, "Oh, you're so lucky that you got this," and I don't want it to be lucky.
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It shouldn't be lucky that a woman doesn't lose her job because- Right... she got pregnant. Like, dads aren't being told, "Oh, you're so lucky you got signed." Right.
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So that's a little tough, but I, yeah, hopefully the narrative is changing. Welcome to For The Long Run.
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We explore the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong and motivated, and how they've been able to achieve sustainable excellence. I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt, and we're so glad you're here.
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This episode is sponsored by Bouldered On, and if you're mapping out your 2026 road race season, this one deserves an early spot on the calendar. Bouldered On is more than a single race.
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And the fun doesn't stop at the finish line. The whole weekend is a big celebration of running, Colorado and truly great humans. You won't wanna miss it.
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Visit boulderedon.org to register and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off. Huge thanks to Bouldered On for putting together such a fantastic community event. A lot of runners see fueling as some secret, mysterious superpower.
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The real light bulb moment for me was understanding just how individual hydration is. Some of us lose way more salt than others, and I'm firmly in that camp. Going only by thirst doesn't always cut it.
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It only takes a few minutes, and it's surprisingly revealing. Head to precisionfuelandhydration.com/planner. And if you end up testing their products, use code LongRun26 for 15% off your first order. And welcome back.
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We are here with Grayson Murphy. Grayson, I think the first time we did a podcast together was December of 2019, and the world [laughs] was very different back then. Yeah. [laughs] It was. So welcome back. Thank you.
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It's good to be back. The first question has become a, a very challenging first question, and that question is who is Grayson? I know. Grayson. Who is Grayson?
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Well, I think my identity is about to have a big change here soon, so ask me again in three months. But yeah, I'm excited for that and adding a new identity to the list.
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Um, but I think in general I'm athlete and sister, friend. Yeah. Kind person. I really strive to be kind, so those are my top four maybe, but- And business owner. And business owner, yeah. So this is a running podcast.
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We'll start on the running side of things. Um, you've been running for a good number of years now, and
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what I've appreciated about your approach to running is it's kinda similar to what I was just chatting about with Dan Green, where he was saying it's just all about having fun. Yeah.
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And you do so many different distances and surfaces and all sorts of, like, different ways to run. You've had a background as a professional track athlete with Northern Arizona Elite.
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What is firing you up about running, maybe not in this moment- [laughs]... but like in the last few months? Just like the idea of coming back from pregnancy and it's kind of like a fresh start in a way.
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And, um, sometimes distance makes the heart grow fonder, so I think last year I dabbled with the 50K stuff and it was really cool, but I've found that I'm really getting pumped about shorter stuff too, thinking about it and dreaming about it.
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I've had dreams that I'm running and not pregnant anymore and can run fast again. So yeah, just like kind of being back and able to do what I was doing before.
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And what is it about the non-conventional approach that has driven you? Maybe it's more fun, [laughs] is the short answer. But, um, yeah, I get bored easy, but also like, why not?
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And that's kind of what I ask myself too. Like, why pick just one if you could have them all? And if you enjoy it at all, um, it's cool.
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And the experiences I've had and the people I've met, it just, like, grows exponentially the more that you do things kind of out of the ordinary.
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One of my favorite books is Range, and it's just like how stretching yourself in these different ways and getting different perspectives can actually make you, like, better than just being a person that does one thing really well.
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So yeah, I think that resonated with me and having the different experiences so that I have a, just a more breadth in my toolkit to handle stuff is fun.
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And then physiologically, like, it has a hu- Like, the short stuff helps the long stuff. I trained for a mile race in 2023, and then two months later did a 55K- Yeah...
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at high altitude, and I was, like, running uphill at 11,000 feet passing people because I had the engine of training for a mile.
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Do you notice those kind of, kinds of things as well, and, and, like, how does that, how does that come about? Yeah, for sure.
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I feel like the road, track and trail play off of each other really well, and that's notTypically something people would say, or maybe in the past, it's more common now, but it- running is running, and if you're fit, you're fit.
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And, um, there's certainly some, like, downhills maybe need to be trained more specifically, and just some things you gotta do. But yeah, I think, like,
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making sure that you're touching all these different aerobic systems and skill sets all the time makes it so that you're always just ready to do anything, which is pretty fun.
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You talked about absence makes the heart grow fonder.
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I'm curious to know more about what it's been like in this moment for you where you've had to slow down, and, like, we were on a group run today or yesterday, and you ended up walking. And, and then on the way back...
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So today we did this four-mile route- [laughs] Yeah... and we ended up in the ocean. [laughs] I forgot how long we were... You were in, chest-deep in the ocean. [laughs] I was chest-deep in the ocean.
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[laughs] But once we, once we escaped imminent death, we started climbing back out, and you just, like, took off. [laughs] And so there's obviously fitness that's- that's there.
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But you've- you've still had to slow down quite a lot. What... How has that been for you? The first couple months was really tough, kinda wrapping your brain around it, and it's kind of like an injury, too.
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And you're just like, "Well, buckle up for, like, this nine, but really 10 months of, like, slowing down process."
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So now at month almost eight, I'm more at peace with it, um, now that it's almost over, but it's tough, and it's...
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Even when you can run through pregnancy, if you're lucky enough to do that, you still are slowing down the whole time. Eventually, yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of a mind warp, too, because you're...
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You could train as much as you wanted. Yeah. You're still gonna get slower.
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We talked yesterday about kinda like the comparison game and the fact that, like, some people are able to tra- like, I ran with Gwen like four days before [laughs] she gave birth, and then there are people who can't run, you know, a month in.
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Wow. How has that been given your, what, like, what you've been experiencing and what you see on Instagram and all this other stuff? Actually really hard at the beginning.
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I mean, I had to delete Instagram for a couple months there, um, just 'cause it's hard to see.
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I'm jealous, and, like, I want that experience, too, and I always pictured that was what it would look like for me, and it didn't. Um, but then you kind of realize, well, this is... I'll take what my body's giving me.
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I'll do the movement I can do, which isn't nothing I can do. Hiking is great, um, lifting, yoga, like Pilates and stuff. Hiking uphill off- Yeah... off the ocean. Yeah. Exactly. Uphill's much better than downhill.
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[laughs] But you're always better at uphill. Yeah. [laughs] Um- Or good and- Yeah. [laughs] So I don't know. In a give and take, and it could be worse, too. Um, it could... not be able to do anything. I don't know. Yeah.
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So just kind of focusing on what I can do and not what I can't. And on the total other end of the spectrum, you signed a new deal with Salomon- Yeah... during pregnancy. Yeah.
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I don't know that that would've ever happened 10 years ago, maybe even five years ago. What was that like, and what is it like to be a part of this, like, new wave of- of what's possible? It was... It's been really cool.
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It was still scary. That was not the timing that I wanted, uh, to happen.
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And so going into contract negotiations with that as like a, "By the way, I'm also pregnant, and [laughs] I won't be able to race until next fall pretty much."
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Not how I would've timed things if I could have, but sometimes you don't get to. So yeah, it was...
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It made me nervous, but there were a lot of people in the running community that were like, "Don't be nervous, and this will work out."
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So having that was really nice, and then having Salomon step up and be like, "We don't devalue you just because you're pregnant right now.
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Like, that doesn't erase what you did before and what we think you can do in the future." So yeah, I think that's pretty cool and I hate to call it an injury, but injured athletes get signed all the time.
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And it's just a period where you're not able to train at the level you want to, which is similar to pregnancy, so it's cool that it's like, oh, it's just, like, a temporary thing, and you'll be back.
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And what was it like to, like, actually sign the deal in this period of time and, like, understand the im- like, the implica- not implication, positive implication and signal that that, that that sends to the community?
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Yeah, I really hope it sends a precedent to other brands, but also other female runners that you should expect this, and this should be the level of support you expect even if you're pregnant.
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And don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because it is possible to have this, so yeah, I hope to add to those stories that just keep growing of, like, this is what the expectation should be here.
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What do you think made it possible? It's not like I don't have a resume [laughs] to bring to the table. Right. So that was helpful. [laughs] But, like, that's what it takes. Yeah.
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It takes, like, someone who, with your pedigree and- Yeah... to, to at least help normalize it- Yeah... so that you don't have to be a multi-time world champion- Yeah... to be the kind of person that is able to do that.
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Right. But I still even then have gotten, like, a couple comments of like, "Oh, you're so lucky that you got this," and I don't want it to be lucky.
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Like, it shouldn't be lucky that a woman doesn't lose her job because- Right... she got pregnant. Um, like, dads aren't being told, "Oh, you're so lucky you got signed." Right. So
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that's a little tough, but I, yeah, hopefully the narrative is changing, and we see that you can advocate for yourself in that time.
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But also it's gonna come from the brand seeing that women aren't, like, ruined or done just 'cause they had a kid. In fact, they often get better.
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A- and from a, like-relatability standpoint, like you're human, you're doing human things- Yeah... and creating a human. So it's like the most relatable time in your career as well- Mm-hmm... potentially.
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And from a sales standpoint, so many moms are customers, so giving them someone to relate to and look up to is, I think, a great sales pitch, and yeah, why wouldn't you?
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What is it like to be a part of, like, a changing of the guard and changing of the ways? I'm honored [laughs] to be here.
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Um, but I feel like so much work was done before me, too, by Allison Felix, Alicia Montaño, and Kara Goucher, and just, like, all these women who have really fought for what we have now, and we have maternity protections and these contracts that are, that didn't exist, and I'm really grateful for that.
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'Cause even though in between contracts you don't have a protection- Right... so that's a little scary. But yeah, I think it just forces people to, brands to protect that.
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So you have a pretty incredible running pedigree. You've won tons of things- Yeah... and been on tops of many, many podiums. You're also really good at the storytelling side of, of all of it.
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We worked together through our, my time at InsideTracker and, and other places as well. What is it, what is it about the, like, not just running for you that, that fires you up or is a part of your journey and story?
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I guess, well, this feels like my community now, too, so it just feels like, well, these are all my friends- Yeah... and I wanna tell them what's going on and...
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But also, when I share hard stuff like pregnancy or, like, Crohn's and mental health, it gives people something to look up to and, like, I'm not perfect either. I'm n- I'm so far from perfect.
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Um, and you can still, like, accomplish great things and not be perfect.
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Even with pregnancy, I've had so many women reach out and say, "It's so cool to see someone like you have, like, not a perfect pregnancy, because I didn't either." And it's not a part of, like, being an athlete or not.
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It has nothing to do with how good of an athlete I am. It's just, like, how your body does pregnancy, which is totally out of your control. So that's been cool, too. Yeah.
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I had a conversation with Seth, who's downstairs, Seth Aru, this morning, about, um, imposter syndrome and, like, how I've spoken, I- I've talked about having imposter syndrome.
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I've spoken with Olympic champions and Olympic medalists who have had imposter syndrome, and I was, my point was, like, if someone who's been at the top of the world can experience it, like, there's no hope for the rest of us [laughs] Yeah.
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[laughs]... to, to be saved from, from experiencing it. [laughs] But, like, um, I guess the point is, like, you are a multi-time champion. You've done all the things, and you're saying that, like, life is hard.
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Life isn't perfect.
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And that's, like, the most relatable piece of any of it, and we see so many stories that are just the highlight reels, and I think that that's one of the reasons that people love following you on social.
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But it's like we need more of that. We need more people being real and showing that, like, life is hard, no matter how fast you are, no matter how much money you make or whatever the, whatever the context is. Yeah.
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Yeah, I even, I look for those people on social media, too, and have found a couple women, and I'm gonna butcher her last name, Rieschmann.
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She's German, but she's a German cyclist, and she had, like, a similar post on she's pregnant right now, too, and just that it's, like, kinda hard to be a professional cyclist and be pregnant.
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And, um, yeah, like, seeing hers not be perfect either is, like, cool. Like, there's someone else out there. Yeah. And I need to see that, too. Who are your other inspirations? We have a [laughs] trail baby mamas group.
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[laughs] And it's, um, MK, Leah, Rachel, me. I think that might be it right now.
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They've been really helpful 'cause they're kind of on the other side of it now, and then Rachel Tamai check in, Mary Denholm are kind of going through it with me right now, which has been nice to ask, like, "Do you feel this yet?"
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And yeah, I think Kara D'Amato has been always someone I've looked up to of, like, having kids, stepping away from the sport, coming back, setting an American record is pretty incredible.
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So many, McKenna Miler, Erica Flowers. She's in Bozeman with me and has been, like, incredibly helpful answering all my questions of how do, how does one do this?
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I've talked to Aliphine quite a bit as well, and yeah, there's just, everyone's so supportive and there's, like, we have these group chats. There's a road pro moms group chat and a trail one, and it's been so fun.
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And you're in both. Yeah, I'm in both. [laughs] So I get all the intel, but yeah, everyone's so helpful and willing to just tell you, like, "These are the best diapers.
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This is the best breast pump, and this is how I trained." And, like, it's so cool to have women supporting each other like that. This episode is brought to you by Tifosi Optics.
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I wanna take a second before I get into this, because Tifosi is kicking off their third year as a partner on For The Long Run, and that means something to me.
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Partnerships like this don't happen without an audience that actually engages, so if you've ever clicked onto their site and tried a pair of sunglasses, thank you. That's what keeps great brands coming back.
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I've been able to hand pairs out at local events, share them with podcast guests when we're together in person, and the reaction is always the same. People put them on, and they love them immediately.
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That's TifosiOptics.com with code FTLR2026 to tell them I sent you. I've been doing a deep dive into my health and training data lately, years of Strava, blood work, and race results.
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One thing keeps showing up in my best running performances, my fastest mile, my strongest marathon blocks. When I look at what was different biologically across those performances, it comes back to iron.
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My ferritin was at 73, my hemoglobin was up. I was running the best I'd ever run. It's not a novel insight.
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Sports scientists and dieticians have known for years that iron is, is one of the most important micronutrients for endurance athletes. But knowing it and actually doing something about it are different things.
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So I've been thinking about where my iron actually comes from, and the honest answer is that it hasn't always been as consistent as I'd like, as I'm not often buying meat at the grocery store.
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That's why I've been so excited about a new partnership with Good Ranchers. Good Ranchers delivers high quality American sourced beef, chicken, and seafood directly to your door. No grocery store required. No forgetting.
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It just shows up, and the quality is impressive, even when it's frozen. I opened my first box and was struck by the packaging, the cuts, and how it all looked.
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We're the test case, and the way we prove that this audience converts, that runners and endurance athletes are worth investing in, is through your support. So after you purchase, you'll see a short post-purchase survey.
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When it asks how you heard about Good Ranchers, select For the Long Run.
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It's what makes it possible to grow this into something bigger, however that's athlete sponsorships, more shows, deeper investment in the endurance community, and more.
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We're building the case together, so use the code, take the survey, and let's show them what this audience can do. Are you kind of hesitating setting any sort of goals for, for the rest of the year or for next year?
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Is it, like, are you allowing yourself to dream a little bit too? Yeah. [laughs] For better or worse, I'm naively dreaming, but I would love to get my marathon debut finally- Wow, okay... before the end of the year.
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Cool. Um, and get the, I say the OTQ, but I really hope I run a lot faster than just the OTQ. Yeah. So I think that's kind of why, like, keeping me excited and hopeful for the year. Um, but, like,
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November, December- Yeah... so give me some time to come back. What is it about the marathon? I don't know. Every time I watch one, I'm like, "That looks like so much fun." Yeah.
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And I've- It's two and a half hours of hurt. Yeah. But that's, like, shorter than the 50Ks. Right. I'm like, great. Um, and I miss road stuff.
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It's been, with Crohn's disease last year, kind of like didn't get to do all the races I wanted to, so I've been trying to get back to the roads and fast stuff, and now seems like as good of time as any with the comeback.
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So yeah, I'm really praying for a nice recovery postpartum, and then can work into a road season. What is it about the road side that you've been missing?
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Feels so good to run fast when you're, like, fit and it's clicking and- Yeah... I miss that. And the trails, you're still running fast, but I feel like it can be more choppy and, um, yeah.
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And then I also [laughs] think maybe less downhill might be nice for the pelvis [laughs] coming back, so. Probably. Yeah. [laughs] So you bopped around with different distances.
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You resisted the, the longer or 50K side of things for- [laughs] Yeah... for a while. And in that time, I don't want to say resisted, you didn't do the 50K for a while, but in that time, the sub-ultra
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discipline has really matured, and there are brands that are focused on it, there are, there are race series that are focused on it, and there's real money that's, um- Yeah...
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being ponied up to, to, to incentivize people to get after it. What is it, what is it about choosing races? Like, how are you choosing races? How are you choosing the distances?
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And how have you been so disciplined in, like, sticking to what you find fun versus, like, three years ago it would have been really easy for you to be like, "All the money's in 100 miles.
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I'm gonna go do my first 100-miler." I, I wanna have fun, so that really, like, guides it too, and because I think if I'm not motivated, if it doesn't sound fun, I'm not gonna do as well.
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Um, but also my skill set felt like it was just better suited- Yeah... for the sub-ultra stuff.
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And in ways I still think it is, and with my goals on the road too, like, I'm not trying to get too far away from the speed yet, and there's just some things left on the table that I wanna use that speed for.
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On the track or just ro- or roads? Probably just road. Yeah. But maybe a rogue 5K here or there. [laughs] Um, I don't feel quite done with that. Yeah. And then can commit to later.
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I, 'cause I always say you can do both at the same time. I do think [laughs] a fast 5K and a 100 mile, the training starts to diverge a little too far to make that, like- Unless you're in the-... accessible...
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camp of Damon Roche with a 14-minute- Yeah. [laughs]... 5K for a 100-mile race. That's true. Yeah. So maybe it's out there. But yeah, I think it just, I feel like I have some unfinished business.
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But I do think, jokes aside, I do think that the training for longer ultras has matured to a point where, like, everyone is so fast- Yeah... that you have to be fast.
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And so, like, there are a lot of people that are training like they're training for a marathon, but their, their long runs are longer and their tempos are, are longer.
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Do you have an interest at some point in going further or-Is it like a, I'll wait and see, but for right now I'm really stoked on No, I do.
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I'm [laughs] last year I was saying I was 50K curious, and then I did get to try that out. So I am 100 mile curious, but I feel like that's a ways- Down the road... away. Yeah. Yeah.
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Um, and more, I think, at least right now, like Western States sounds more fun than like a Hardrock. Yeah. 'Cause I still want to run. Right.
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I think I was telling you today or yesterday, I don't love hiking all the time. Despite being very good at it. Yeah. [laughs] But I think thinking of a long race where you're just hiking- Yeah...
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a lot doesn't fire me up- Motivate you... as much. Yeah. Uh, yeah. [laughs] What does the curiosity look like for you? Well, even wrapping my brain around, like, 100 miles is crazy. Right.
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And to think you would do that on your feet is crazy. [laughs] In a day. Uh-huh. Um, and what does that- Well, in a week... feel like? Yeah. Yeah. Like, what, what kind of pain does that feel like?
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Which is how I'm approaching childbirth too. You gotta go have the baby first- Yeah... and then, like, the 100 mile- Like, how bad will it be?... won't be hard. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Bad.
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[laughs] I think the curiosity piece is what's, what's, what resonates most for me. Like, I wanna put myself in that arena, and, like, see what I look like on the other side of it, and, like, how I handle it.
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And, like, I've had some challenges lately with, um, mental strength and resilience, and just, like, not showing up as the best version of myself outside of running.
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And I was talking to my girlfriend Kate about it, and she was like, "You choose discomfort constantly in running, and you just, like, can't do it in, in life sometimes."
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And this was specifically around, like, w- we were fostering a puppy, and I was just getting crushed by, like, the change in routine, and the, like, waking up in the middle of the night and doing all the things that are, like, outside of my routine, and, and changing the schedule and all this stuff.
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And I was like, yeah, maybe I just need to, like, set a crazy goal and do something wildly uncomfortable- Yeah... and let myself grow. Uh-huh. So maybe I will. It's part of the stretch, yeah. Yeah.
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That's how I felt with the 50K, was just like, I, this feels crazy. Like, 30 miles- Yeah... is a long way, and what is that gonna feel like? But it was fun.
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It's so interesting because, and I love that you said that, because I live in Boulder where, like, people run 50Ks every weekend.
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[laughs] And I think I was telling you, like, Hayden would come over every week after he and Dan Jones would run 50K as, like, a training run, and we'd, like, take a sauna.
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[laughs] And I can't sauna after, like, a 15 mile run. [laughs] No. And it's just, like, so normalized to run these far distances. And I'm like, that's really freaking far. It is far.
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Like, all the people here that ran 50K yesterday- Yeah. [laughs]... and they're just, like- Fine... jogging. Yeah. And they're fine. I'm like, this is...
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But, but I think that's what's really cool about everything's relative. The context is constantly shifting.
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And, like, if I looked at the runner I was 10 years ago, he wouldn't recognize what I'm doing today, and I think that's a lot of the, the beauty of the sport. Yeah. I feel that way, too.
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Yeah, 10 years ago me wouldn't have [laughs] never believed I'd be here talking to you. [laughs] 10 years ago was 2016. Were you at Northern Arizona? No, I was still in college.
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Yeah, I had just started at Utah, so I still, no All-Americans yet. Yeah. Like, nothing. Yeah. What would you say to that version of Grayson? [laughs] Buckle up. [laughs] This is, this, like, little sport.
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You're not gonna believe what's- Yeah... what you're gonna see. No. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, or the places you're gonna go and the people you're gonna meet. Yeah. So cool. Just hang on.
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One of the things that you've added to your repertoire is sitting right next to us here. What is, what is this?
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By the way, if you are listening to this podcast, it is, and wondering what we're pointing at, it is also available on YouTube to watch so you can see what we're pointing at.
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But Grayson, what, what is this, uh- This is our Wild Strides Paper Company training log and planner. Show it to the camera. Um, we have a green cover this year as well. This is a purple cover.
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But yeah, this has been my little passion project, side hustle turned full hustle [laughs] business for the last, this is year eight of this. And I think when we first talked, it was, like, brand new.
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Year two or something. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's been really fun. And yeah, we've grown a lot.
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Now we have these, and then we have some other stationary, like, stickers and journals, um, for athletes, and it's all just, like, fun athlete themed.
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We've had a couple collabs, one with Hillary Allen, one with the Subhub Podcast.
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So it's been fun to, like, have another way to connect with the running community outside of racing and race results, and also learn, I've learned a lot of life skills, [laughs] yeah, and business skills along the way.
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And we've expanded. Brittany Miller's our managing director now. So I don't, I'm not shipping out of my garage anymore, which is huge, yeah.
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[laughs] Um, and then we have a coaching collective that we added last year, so that's, like, just been really cool to, like, see it grow and do something other than race. What's been the inspiration behind all of that?
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I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit. The number of things I tried to sell when I was a kid. Tried to sell sock monkeys on Etsy, uh, which I think I did sell a couple. Lemonade, we had lots of lemonade stands.
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Me and my sister had a leaf raking business, which actually we raked it in. You raked it in. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, nice. Literally. I sold [laughs] I wanted to sell spongies.
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I don't know what I was thinking, but made clothes for, like, these sponges, and thought it was, like, the next big hit. It was not. Um-Yeah, but this one stuck, I guess.
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[laughs] So it's been cool to like see that happen and Is it the curiosity of like what can you build? Yeah, I think so. And, and seeing other people sell stuff and being like, "Why can't I do that and figure it out?"
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And just f- figure it out. What did the figuring it out process look like? How have you, how have you done that? Yeah, I guess starting from the beginning was like how do you create something like this?
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And I'm not a digital designer, so I had to... I, the first year would draw it all and then send it to a designer, and she'd digitize everything. And then
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since then have been like all kinda like mock up stuff, and I've gotten better at Adobe now and Canva. I'm proficient. Uh, but we still have a designer. Then sourcing everything too, um,
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and all the materials, and the paper type and quality, and what's cheaper and what still gives you a margin on things, and where do you get this stuff? How to build a website. Like, all these things.
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It's like all these cool life skills that I've picked up along the way that I can use. How to market something, a product, that's not like my personal brand. It's been really cool.
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Networking- And you've done some partnerships on, on, with that, and worked with creators and other, other people to promote- Yeah... your product. Yeah, which is cool 'cause...
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And that's been a little easier 'cause I know the other side of it, um, so that's helpful.
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But yeah, I mean, like, even reaching out to podcasts and like how can we advertise this, and what does that look like, especially with social media algorithms changing rapidly and not being as reliable as they were four years ago.
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What was it like to be a total beginner in a space like that? Honestly, I kinda like it, and that's how I felt about running too when I started, was it's cool. There's no pressure, and it's just like a
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learning experience, which I enjoy. There's definitely some overwhelming points. I've had some tears, some shipping mishaps that, yeah, you correct later. But yeah, I- it's, uh, good, good life lessons.
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[laughs] This episode is brought to you by Mount to Coast, the award-winning footwear brand built for runners who go long, and I mean really long. You may have heard of the Double Boston.
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It's exactly what it sounds like and also completely insane in the best way.
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A group of runners will kick off on Marathon Monday at 3:00 AM, starting at the finish line on Boylston Street and running the entire course in reverse, all 26.2 miles back to Hopkinton.
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Then, after a short break to eat and recover, seven of these runners will toe the line and run the official Boston Marathon, 52.4 miles back to back in opposite directions.
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Mount to Coast is sponsoring that group because of course they are.
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This is a brand that literally makes shoes for some of the world's most extreme long distance races, including Badwater, a 135-mile race through Death Valley. Going long is kind of their thing.
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And to celebrate Boston weekend, I'll be joining that first marathon, and I'm doing a live podcast recording with Joe Corson of Everyday Ultra, presented by Mount to Coast, Sunday at 1:00 PM at Marathon Sports right at the finish line in Boston.
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We're going to talk about how to move up in distance, what it really takes to run ultras, and the gear that makes it all possible. Seats are limited, and the link to register is in the show notes. Come on out and say hi.
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And check out Mount to Coast at mounttocoast.com. And while we're talking about Boston, on Saturday at 5:00 PM, head to the Boston Marathon Expo for a panel I'm hosting you won't wanna miss.
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It's called How We Can Make America's Cities Safe to Run For All. We're bringing together real experiences and real solutions to make running safer for every single one of us. See you there.
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What's firing you up in running maybe as a fan of the sport right now? That's a great question.
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I think the seeing all the women doing well and kind of like participation numbers in trails specifically rising has been really cool to see.
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I feel like we're finally seeing sub-ultra kind of have its moment, which I've been waiting for. The Andy Wacker effect. Yeah. [laughs] Andy's done so much for the sport, and it's been cool to like...
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I feel like I got in there, but it was still pretty early, and now it's cool to see other people f- coming like straight out of college into trail and sub-ultra, which is kind of what I did, and when I did it, people were like, "What are you doing?"
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[laughs] And now it's more normal, and I love that. Did you see the trail media house- No... that is launching in Boulder? Actually, yes, I did see that. Can we talk about this for a second? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
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Do you have opinions or thoughts? I mean, I wanna watch. Yeah. It seems cool. It's like a reality show, but I, I- But real life... from what I read. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
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Um, so for those who aren't familiar, uh, there are a couple of brands that are putting together...
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So Brad, the, the founder of Lever, um, Brad Miles, has a property in Boulder, and he is friends with Hyperlite and Jeremy and Emery, who run Hyperlite, which is a sports and nutrition company, and they got, uh, their start, or they started with Hans Troyer- Mm-hmm...
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and a video that got, I don't know, two million views, uh, in his build-up to, was it Western States? Black Canyon. Or Black Canyon, yeah.
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Um, and so they stumbled into like media as being the, the tip of the spear, or like how to learn about the brand.
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And so the idea is put a bunch of post-collegiate trail runners who are unsponsored in a house and let them cook.
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[laughs] And give them cameras, give them access, um, to capture content, and then give them the tools to like just train and let other people produce the content. Yeah. And so I think it's a r- super cool concept.
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I'm helping them a little bit with the, um, partnership side of things and finding other brands that wanna give them products. So if you're a brand that is- Do they need training logs?
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They probably do need training logs. Okay. [laughs] We'll get them training logs. [laughs] Um, so if you're a brand in or out of the running space and you wanna play with, uh, play with this concept, uh, let's chat.
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Great. John@forthelong.run. [laughs] Um, but-Yeah, I th- I think it's such a cool idea, and it's hopefully the future of where the sport is headed, like more access. Yeah.
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And I think that's, like, a huge reason that you've had the ability... Y- you're in a place where it, for you, it's not just performance, it's the storytelling.
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'Cause this has always been a part of what, what you're doing, and hopefully it's a lesson that other people can learn as well. Yeah, I think so.
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I think it's definitely given me access to more partnerships than some other athletes. And even though now I try not to...
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The influencer and pro athlete line is very gray right now, uh, and I try not to be too much on the influencer side. But yeah, it's been a cool way to, like, fund this and make sure that I'm supported.
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And it's easy just... Well, for me, it's easy just being yourself. For some people, I think sharing can be difficult, and that's not a knock to them. But yeah, it's cool.
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Speaking of, uh, non-running brands, we should have had a cup of Pioneer Pastures- Yeah... and cheers some, some a2 Milk. Yeah. Uh, do you wanna talk more about that partnership- Sure. Yeah...
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and, and what that looks like, and why it's such a home run for you? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you connected us, so thank you very much. They're a Bozeman brand, which is really cool, and I've never...
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I don't think I've worked with a brand that's in the same city as me, so it's cool to, when we meet, we meet in person- Oh, cool... which is awesome. Um- Yeah, I learned they were in Bozeman.
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I was like, "Okay, this is another reason [laughs] I need to meet Grayson." Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, it was perfect, and it's been cool.
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Like, they make the a2 milk, um, which is more easily digestible, and then they also have the protein shakes, which are really good, and Logan drinks all of them. [laughs] So good. Yeah.
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And I'm always like, "No, those are mine." Um, yeah, so it's been really fun to work with them. We did an activation at the Every Women's Marathon in November, and that was huge success.
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We had like 200 people show up for this group run, and yeah, it's just cool to work with, like, non-endemic partners like that.
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And I know you've always been a big proponent of working with partners outside of the direct running space, but that want to be, like, running and athlete adjacent. Yeah. Um, and Lagoon is like that, too.
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Lagoon Sleep that I work with. They're so supportive, and it's nice to have those partners, too. And then your main Salomon running sponsor. Yeah, I think this is hopefully a future that is here sooner rather than later.
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I am kicking off a partnership with a meat delivery company called Good Ranchers, so we're coming full circle with the dairy and- [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] like, like full cow.
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[laughs] Um, but the f- the conversation I had with Good Ranchers was effectively like, runners need iron, runners need protein, and they need quality sources of meat. Mm-hmm.
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Um, and this is a brand that has sponsored IndyCar races before. Oh, nice. And so, like, the, the spend in a running property is minuscule compared to the spend of an IndyCar. Yeah, I bet.
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And so the whole bet was basically like, everyone listening to this podcast is either vegan or a perfect customer for [laughs] Yeah... for them. Or vegetarian or- That's perfect. Yeah... or a perfect customer for them.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so it's, like, another opportunity to bring something to the audience that will help them, will help them with energy, will help them with food, will help them with convenience for bringing something into their house that they can feed their family with.
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Um, but it's not a shoe. It's not, it's not, you know, precision. It's not, um, something that you consume while you're, while you're running. And these non-running brands are realizing that, like,
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we are a great demographic, and we buy things, and there are plenty of things that we need. Yeah.
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And so, like, m- my, one of my whole goals is to, like, bring more money into running to cover media, to cover athletes and events, and just, like, really prop up the whole space.
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So it's really cool to hear the experience of working with a company like Pioneer Pastures that it's, like, a milk sponsor. Yeah.
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Um, but, like, I haven't drank dairy in probably 20 years, and because I'm lactose intolerant, but I can drink Pioneer Pastures. [laughs] Perfect. Yeah. So it's- It's so good...
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like I told them, and they're like, "Yes, duh, this makes sense." You can drink it. Yeah.
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Yeah, and I wasn't really not on the milk train either because I also had Crohn's and, like, stomach issues, and it's so much gentler, and I can have these shakes and not be in the bathroom, [laughs] which is amazing.
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And it tastes really good, too. So yeah, it's been fun. So as an athlete, what is it… Talk more about the, the benefit of having non-running sponsor- non-running brand sponsors. I think- Like, why is this important?
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Well, from a financial standpoint, it definitely just makes you feel more stable. Um, but also, it's tough when you're competing if you're just looking at all the running sponsors.
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You're competing with all the other pro runners, and that can get really competitive, and unless you have sometimes, like, the best resume, you might not get that spot.
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But with these non-endemic partners, they might not need you to be winning everything. They can have you- Show up to an- Yeah... event- Yeah... and run a, run a group run.
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Yeah, and be good at storytelling on social media.
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But also, that's another reason to have, like, a social media presence, 'cause likely you're not gonna have these non-endemic sponsors without some sort of social media interaction, for better or worse, and kind of finding that balance is up to everyone.
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But I think it's, it's important. It's also nice to have brands that are like, "We just wanna support you. We don't care if you win. Just, like, get out there." Partic- particularly in this season. Yeah. Yeah.
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Especially right now. Um, is there anything else that, uh, that you wanted to, to chat through today?
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I'm really excited to… I just… Well, when I was doing the negotiation process with my agent and talking to brands, it was really important that the brand had great road and trail products, and Salomon was kind of, like, in that short list of brands, and it's just been… I feel really grateful that that worked out the way it did, so I'm really excited for all the products they have coming up, and I'm still learning all the shoe names.
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Um, but yeah, it's been really fun to- Are you courting Molly to join you? Yeah, I should. [laughs] And I've been taking tips from Dan, asking him, like, "What shoe is this? And what should I wear it for?
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And what clothing item is this?" And yeah, it's been really fun, so excited to explore a new partnership- Cool... moving forward. Awesome. Well, Grayson, this has been a blast. Thank you.
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Uh, thanks for sharing your story, and, uh, we'll see you out there. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs with friends, it's sad when it has to end.
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Join us next time as we continue to share inspiring stories from the running community. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or training partner who you think would like it, too.
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This podcast was produced by Emma Benner of Sandy Boy Productions with musical composition by Brian Walters of Single Track Sound. Thank you for your support, and we'll see you out there. [outro music]
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[instrumental music plays] Even then have gotten like a couple comments of like, "Oh, you're so lucky that you got this," and I don't want it to be lucky.
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It shouldn't be lucky that a woman doesn't lose her job because- Right... she got pregnant. Like, dads aren't being told, "Oh, you're so lucky you got signed." Right.
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So that's a little tough, but I, yeah, hopefully the narrative is changing. Welcome to For The Long Run.
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We explore the why behind what keeps runners running long, strong and motivated, and how they've been able to achieve sustainable excellence. I'm your host, Jonathan Levitt, and we're so glad you're here.
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This episode is sponsored by Bouldered On, and if you're mapping out your 2026 road race season, this one deserves an early spot on the calendar. Bouldered On is more than a single race.
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And the fun doesn't stop at the finish line. The whole weekend is a big celebration of running, Colorado and truly great humans. You won't wanna miss it.
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Visit boulderedon.org to register and use code FTLR2026 for $20 off. Huge thanks to Bouldered On for putting together such a fantastic community event. A lot of runners see fueling as some secret, mysterious superpower.
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Either you magically get it right or you don't. What I love about Precision Fuel and Hydration is how they cut through all that mystique.
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They take sports nutrition back to basics with three simple dials you can adjust: carbs, fluid and sodium. Learn how to tweak each one on its own and suddenly most mid-run struggles start to make a lot more sense.
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The real light bulb moment for me was understanding just how individual hydration is. Some of us lose way more salt than others, and I'm firmly in that camp. Going only by thirst doesn't always cut it.
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It only takes a few minutes, and it's surprisingly revealing. Head to precisionfuelandhydration.com/planner. And if you end up testing their products, use code LongRun26 for 15% off your first order. And welcome back.
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We are here with Grayson Murphy. Grayson, I think the first time we did a podcast together was December of 2019, and the world [laughs] was very different back then. Yeah. [laughs] It was. So welcome back. Thank you.
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It's good to be back. The first question has become a, a very challenging first question, and that question is who is Grayson? I know. Grayson. Who is Grayson?
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Well, I think my identity is about to have a big change here soon, so ask me again in three months. But yeah, I'm excited for that and adding a new identity to the list.
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Um, but I think in general I'm athlete and sister, friend. Yeah. Kind person. I really strive to be kind, so those are my top four maybe, but- And business owner. And business owner, yeah. So this is a running podcast.
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We'll start on the running side of things. Um, you've been running for a good number of years now, and
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what I've appreciated about your approach to running is it's kinda similar to what I was just chatting about with Dan Green, where he was saying it's just all about having fun. Yeah.
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And you do so many different distances and surfaces and all sorts of, like, different ways to run. You've had a background as a professional track athlete with Northern Arizona Elite.
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What is firing you up about running, maybe not in this moment- [laughs]... but like in the last few months? Just like the idea of coming back from pregnancy and it's kind of like a fresh start in a way.
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And, um, sometimes distance makes the heart grow fonder, so I think last year I dabbled with the 50K stuff and it was really cool, but I've found that I'm really getting pumped about shorter stuff too, thinking about it and dreaming about it.
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I've had dreams that I'm running and not pregnant anymore and can run fast again. So yeah, just like kind of being back and able to do what I was doing before.
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And what is it about the non-conventional approach that has driven you? Maybe it's more fun, [laughs] is the short answer. But, um, yeah, I get bored easy, but also like, why not?
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And that's kind of what I ask myself too. Like, why pick just one if you could have them all? And if you enjoy it at all, um, it's cool.
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And the experiences I've had and the people I've met, it just, like, grows exponentially the more that you do things kind of out of the ordinary.
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One of my favorite books is Range, and it's just like how stretching yourself in these different ways and getting different perspectives can actually make you, like, better than just being a person that does one thing really well.
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So yeah, I think that resonated with me and having the different experiences so that I have a, just a more breadth in my toolkit to handle stuff is fun.
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And then physiologically, like, it has a hu- Like, the short stuff helps the long stuff. I trained for a mile race in 2023, and then two months later did a 55K- Yeah...
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at high altitude, and I was, like, running uphill at 11,000 feet passing people because I had the engine of training for a mile.
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Do you notice those kind of, kinds of things as well, and, and, like, how does that, how does that come about? Yeah, for sure.
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I feel like the road, track and trail play off of each other really well, and that's notTypically something people would say, or maybe in the past, it's more common now, but it- running is running, and if you're fit, you're fit.
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And, um, there's certainly some, like, downhills maybe need to be trained more specifically, and just some things you gotta do. But yeah, I think, like,
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making sure that you're touching all these different aerobic systems and skill sets all the time makes it so that you're always just ready to do anything, which is pretty fun.
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You talked about absence makes the heart grow fonder.
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I'm curious to know more about what it's been like in this moment for you where you've had to slow down, and, like, we were on a group run today or yesterday, and you ended up walking. And, and then on the way back...
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So today we did this four-mile route- [laughs] Yeah... and we ended up in the ocean. [laughs] I forgot how long we were... You were in, chest-deep in the ocean. [laughs] I was chest-deep in the ocean.
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[laughs] But once we, once we escaped imminent death, we started climbing back out, and you just, like, took off. [laughs] And so there's obviously fitness that's- that's there.
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But you've- you've still had to slow down quite a lot. What... How has that been for you? The first couple months was really tough, kinda wrapping your brain around it, and it's kind of like an injury, too.
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And you're just like, "Well, buckle up for, like, this nine, but really 10 months of, like, slowing down process."
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So now at month almost eight, I'm more at peace with it, um, now that it's almost over, but it's tough, and it's...
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Even when you can run through pregnancy, if you're lucky enough to do that, you still are slowing down the whole time. Eventually, yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of a mind warp, too, because you're...
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You could train as much as you wanted. Yeah. You're still gonna get slower.
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We talked yesterday about kinda like the comparison game and the fact that, like, some people are able to tra- like, I ran with Gwen like four days before [laughs] she gave birth, and then there are people who can't run, you know, a month in.
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Wow. How has that been given your, what, like, what you've been experiencing and what you see on Instagram and all this other stuff? Actually really hard at the beginning.
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I mean, I had to delete Instagram for a couple months there, um, just 'cause it's hard to see.
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I'm jealous, and, like, I want that experience, too, and I always pictured that was what it would look like for me, and it didn't. Um, but then you kind of realize, well, this is... I'll take what my body's giving me.
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I'll do the movement I can do, which isn't nothing I can do. Hiking is great, um, lifting, yoga, like Pilates and stuff. Hiking uphill off- Yeah... off the ocean. Yeah. Exactly. Uphill's much better than downhill.
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[laughs] But you're always better at uphill. Yeah. [laughs] Um- Or good and- Yeah. [laughs] So I don't know. In a give and take, and it could be worse, too. Um, it could... not be able to do anything. I don't know. Yeah.
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So just kind of focusing on what I can do and not what I can't. And on the total other end of the spectrum, you signed a new deal with Salomon- Yeah... during pregnancy. Yeah.
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I don't know that that would've ever happened 10 years ago, maybe even five years ago. What was that like, and what is it like to be a part of this, like, new wave of- of what's possible? It was... It's been really cool.
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It was still scary. That was not the timing that I wanted, uh, to happen.
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And so going into contract negotiations with that as like a, "By the way, I'm also pregnant, and [laughs] I won't be able to race until next fall pretty much."
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Not how I would've timed things if I could have, but sometimes you don't get to. So yeah, it was...
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It made me nervous, but there were a lot of people in the running community that were like, "Don't be nervous, and this will work out."
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So having that was really nice, and then having Salomon step up and be like, "We don't devalue you just because you're pregnant right now.
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Like, that doesn't erase what you did before and what we think you can do in the future." So yeah, I think that's pretty cool and I hate to call it an injury, but injured athletes get signed all the time.
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And it's just a period where you're not able to train at the level you want to, which is similar to pregnancy, so it's cool that it's like, oh, it's just, like, a temporary thing, and you'll be back.
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And what was it like to, like, actually sign the deal in this period of time and, like, understand the im- like, the implica- not implication, positive implication and signal that that, that that sends to the community?
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Yeah, I really hope it sends a precedent to other brands, but also other female runners that you should expect this, and this should be the level of support you expect even if you're pregnant.
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And don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because it is possible to have this, so yeah, I hope to add to those stories that just keep growing of, like, this is what the expectation should be here.
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What do you think made it possible? It's not like I don't have a resume [laughs] to bring to the table. Right. So that was helpful. [laughs] But, like, that's what it takes. Yeah.
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It takes, like, someone who, with your pedigree and- Yeah... to, to at least help normalize it- Yeah... so that you don't have to be a multi-time world champion- Yeah... to be the kind of person that is able to do that.
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Right. But I still even then have gotten, like, a couple comments of like, "Oh, you're so lucky that you got this," and I don't want it to be lucky.
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Like, it shouldn't be lucky that a woman doesn't lose her job because- Right... she got pregnant. Um, like, dads aren't being told, "Oh, you're so lucky you got signed." Right. So
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that's a little tough, but I, yeah, hopefully the narrative is changing, and we see that you can advocate for yourself in that time.
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But also it's gonna come from the brand seeing that women aren't, like, ruined or done just 'cause they had a kid. In fact, they often get better.
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A- and from a, like-relatability standpoint, like you're human, you're doing human things- Yeah... and creating a human. So it's like the most relatable time in your career as well- Mm-hmm... potentially.
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And from a sales standpoint, so many moms are customers, so giving them someone to relate to and look up to is, I think, a great sales pitch, and yeah, why wouldn't you?
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What is it like to be a part of, like, a changing of the guard and changing of the ways? I'm honored [laughs] to be here.
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Um, but I feel like so much work was done before me, too, by Allison Felix, Alicia Montaño, and Kara Goucher, and just, like, all these women who have really fought for what we have now, and we have maternity protections and these contracts that are, that didn't exist, and I'm really grateful for that.
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'Cause even though in between contracts you don't have a protection- Right... so that's a little scary. But yeah, I think it just forces people to, brands to protect that.
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So you have a pretty incredible running pedigree. You've won tons of things- Yeah... and been on tops of many, many podiums. You're also really good at the storytelling side of, of all of it.
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We worked together through our, my time at InsideTracker and, and other places as well. What is it, what is it about the, like, not just running for you that, that fires you up or is a part of your journey and story?
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I guess, well, this feels like my community now, too, so it just feels like, well, these are all my friends- Yeah... and I wanna tell them what's going on and...
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But also, when I share hard stuff like pregnancy or, like, Crohn's and mental health, it gives people something to look up to and, like, I'm not perfect either. I'm n- I'm so far from perfect.
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Um, and you can still, like, accomplish great things and not be perfect.
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Even with pregnancy, I've had so many women reach out and say, "It's so cool to see someone like you have, like, not a perfect pregnancy, because I didn't either." And it's not a part of, like, being an athlete or not.
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It has nothing to do with how good of an athlete I am. It's just, like, how your body does pregnancy, which is totally out of your control. So that's been cool, too. Yeah.
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I had a conversation with Seth, who's downstairs, Seth Aru, this morning, about, um, imposter syndrome and, like, how I've spoken, I- I've talked about having imposter syndrome.
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I've spoken with Olympic champions and Olympic medalists who have had imposter syndrome, and I was, my point was, like, if someone who's been at the top of the world can experience it, like, there's no hope for the rest of us [laughs] Yeah.
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[laughs]... to, to be saved from, from experiencing it. [laughs] But, like, um, I guess the point is, like, you are a multi-time champion. You've done all the things, and you're saying that, like, life is hard.
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Life isn't perfect.
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And that's, like, the most relatable piece of any of it, and we see so many stories that are just the highlight reels, and I think that that's one of the reasons that people love following you on social.
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But it's like we need more of that. We need more people being real and showing that, like, life is hard, no matter how fast you are, no matter how much money you make or whatever the, whatever the context is. Yeah.
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Yeah, I even, I look for those people on social media, too, and have found a couple women, and I'm gonna butcher her last name, Rieschmann.
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She's German, but she's a German cyclist, and she had, like, a similar post on she's pregnant right now, too, and just that it's, like, kinda hard to be a professional cyclist and be pregnant.
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And, um, yeah, like, seeing hers not be perfect either is, like, cool. Like, there's someone else out there. Yeah. And I need to see that, too. Who are your other inspirations? We have a [laughs] trail baby mamas group.
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[laughs] And it's, um, MK, Leah, Rachel, me. I think that might be it right now.
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They've been really helpful 'cause they're kind of on the other side of it now, and then Rachel Tamai check in, Mary Denholm are kind of going through it with me right now, which has been nice to ask, like, "Do you feel this yet?"
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And yeah, I think Kara D'Amato has been always someone I've looked up to of, like, having kids, stepping away from the sport, coming back, setting an American record is pretty incredible.
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So many, McKenna Miler, Erica Flowers. She's in Bozeman with me and has been, like, incredibly helpful answering all my questions of how do, how does one do this?
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I've talked to Aliphine quite a bit as well, and yeah, there's just, everyone's so supportive and there's, like, we have these group chats. There's a road pro moms group chat and a trail one, and it's been so fun.
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And you're in both. Yeah, I'm in both. [laughs] So I get all the intel, but yeah, everyone's so helpful and willing to just tell you, like, "These are the best diapers.
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This is the best breast pump, and this is how I trained." And, like, it's so cool to have women supporting each other like that. This episode is brought to you by Tifosi Optics.
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I wanna take a second before I get into this, because Tifosi is kicking off their third year as a partner on For The Long Run, and that means something to me.
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Partnerships like this don't happen without an audience that actually engages, so if you've ever clicked onto their site and tried a pair of sunglasses, thank you. That's what keeps great brands coming back.
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And Tifosi has invested a lot in this show. In return, what I've seen is that the people listening genuinely love the product.
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I've been able to hand pairs out at local events, share them with podcast guests when we're together in person, and the reaction is always the same. People put them on, and they love them immediately.
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I wear Tifosi on every run, in the sun, when it's cloudy, when it's snowing. Whatever the conditions, there's a lens meant for that, and I use their prescription option, too.
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Getting prescription sports eyewear that actually performs has always been kind of a hassle, but Tifosi made the process surprisingly simple.You submit your prescription online, they handle everything, and you end up with sunglasses built for running that you can actually see out of.
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Fast turnaround, no headaches, and they look great. If you've been curious, now is a great time to try them. Head to TifosiOptics.com and use code FTLR2026 for 20% off.
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That's TifosiOptics.com with code FTLR2026 to tell them I sent you. I've been doing a deep dive into my health and training data lately, years of Strava, blood work, and race results.
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One thing keeps showing up in my best running performances, my fastest mile, my strongest marathon blocks. When I look at what was different biologically across those performances, it comes back to iron.
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My ferritin was at 73, my hemoglobin was up. I was running the best I'd ever run. It's not a novel insight.
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Sports scientists and dieticians have known for years that iron is, is one of the most important micronutrients for endurance athletes. But knowing it and actually doing something about it are different things.
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So I've been thinking about where my iron actually comes from, and the honest answer is that it hasn't always been as consistent as I'd like, as I'm not often buying meat at the grocery store.
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That's why I've been so excited about a new partnership with Good Ranchers. Good Ranchers delivers high quality American sourced beef, chicken, and seafood directly to your door. No grocery store required. No forgetting.
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It just shows up, and the quality is impressive, even when it's frozen. I opened my first box and was struck by the packaging, the cuts, and how it all looked.
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If you're training hard, you need quality protein and you need iron. Good Ranchers makes that easier to actually execute on, not just think about. Go to GoodRanchers.com and order your first box.
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Use code IRON at checkout to save $25. You'll also get a free protein of your choice every month when you subscribe. That's GoodRanchers.com with the code IRON.
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One more thing, this is a pilot partnership and that actually matters. Good Ranchers has never worked with an endurance network or podcast before.
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We're the test case, and the way we prove that this audience converts, that runners and endurance athletes are worth investing in, is through your support. So after you purchase, you'll see a short post-purchase survey.
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When it asks how you heard about Good Ranchers, select For the Long Run.
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It's what makes it possible to grow this into something bigger, however that's athlete sponsorships, more shows, deeper investment in the endurance community, and more.
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We're building the case together, so use the code, take the survey, and let's show them what this audience can do. Are you kind of hesitating setting any sort of goals for, for the rest of the year or for next year?
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Is it, like, are you allowing yourself to dream a little bit too? Yeah. [laughs] For better or worse, I'm naively dreaming, but I would love to get my marathon debut finally- Wow, okay... before the end of the year.
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Cool. Um, and get the, I say the OTQ, but I really hope I run a lot faster than just the OTQ. Yeah. So I think that's kind of why, like, keeping me excited and hopeful for the year. Um, but, like,
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November, December- Yeah... so give me some time to come back. What is it about the marathon? I don't know. Every time I watch one, I'm like, "That looks like so much fun." Yeah.
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And I've- It's two and a half hours of hurt. Yeah. But that's, like, shorter than the 50Ks. Right. I'm like, great. Um, and I miss road stuff.
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It's been, with Crohn's disease last year, kind of like didn't get to do all the races I wanted to, so I've been trying to get back to the roads and fast stuff, and now seems like as good of time as any with the comeback.
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So yeah, I'm really praying for a nice recovery postpartum, and then can work into a road season. What is it about the road side that you've been missing?
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Feels so good to run fast when you're, like, fit and it's clicking and- Yeah... I miss that. And the trails, you're still running fast, but I feel like it can be more choppy and, um, yeah.
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And then I also [laughs] think maybe less downhill might be nice for the pelvis [laughs] coming back, so. Probably. Yeah. [laughs] So you bopped around with different distances.
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You resisted the, the longer or 50K side of things for- [laughs] Yeah... for a while. And in that time, I don't want to say resisted, you didn't do the 50K for a while, but in that time, the sub-ultra
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discipline has really matured, and there are brands that are focused on it, there are, there are race series that are focused on it, and there's real money that's, um- Yeah...
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being ponied up to, to, to incentivize people to get after it. What is it, what is it about choosing races? Like, how are you choosing races? How are you choosing the distances?
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And how have you been so disciplined in, like, sticking to what you find fun versus, like, three years ago it would have been really easy for you to be like, "All the money's in 100 miles.
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I'm gonna go do my first 100-miler." I, I wanna have fun, so that really, like, guides it too, and because I think if I'm not motivated, if it doesn't sound fun, I'm not gonna do as well.
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Um, but also my skill set felt like it was just better suited- Yeah... for the sub-ultra stuff.
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And in ways I still think it is, and with my goals on the road too, like, I'm not trying to get too far away from the speed yet, and there's just some things left on the table that I wanna use that speed for.
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On the track or just ro- or roads? Probably just road. Yeah. But maybe a rogue 5K here or there. [laughs] Um, I don't feel quite done with that. Yeah. And then can commit to later.
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I, 'cause I always say you can do both at the same time. I do think [laughs] a fast 5K and a 100 mile, the training starts to diverge a little too far to make that, like- Unless you're in the-... accessible...
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camp of Damon Roche with a 14-minute- Yeah. [laughs]... 5K for a 100-mile race. That's true. Yeah. So maybe it's out there. But yeah, I think it just, I feel like I have some unfinished business.
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But I do think, jokes aside, I do think that the training for longer ultras has matured to a point where, like, everyone is so fast- Yeah... that you have to be fast.
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And so, like, there are a lot of people that are training like they're training for a marathon, but their, their long runs are longer and their tempos are, are longer.
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Do you have an interest at some point in going further or-Is it like a, I'll wait and see, but for right now I'm really stoked on No, I do.
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I'm [laughs] last year I was saying I was 50K curious, and then I did get to try that out. So I am 100 mile curious, but I feel like that's a ways- Down the road... away. Yeah. Yeah.
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Um, and more, I think, at least right now, like Western States sounds more fun than like a Hardrock. Yeah. 'Cause I still want to run. Right.
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I think I was telling you today or yesterday, I don't love hiking all the time. Despite being very good at it. Yeah. [laughs] But I think thinking of a long race where you're just hiking- Yeah...
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a lot doesn't fire me up- Motivate you... as much. Yeah. Uh, yeah. [laughs] What does the curiosity look like for you? Well, even wrapping my brain around, like, 100 miles is crazy. Right.
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And to think you would do that on your feet is crazy. [laughs] In a day. Uh-huh. Um, and what does that- Well, in a week... feel like? Yeah. Yeah. Like, what, what kind of pain does that feel like?
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Which is how I'm approaching childbirth too. You gotta go have the baby first- Yeah... and then, like, the 100 mile- Like, how bad will it be?... won't be hard. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Bad.
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[laughs] I think the curiosity piece is what's, what's, what resonates most for me. Like, I wanna put myself in that arena, and, like, see what I look like on the other side of it, and, like, how I handle it.
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And, like, I've had some challenges lately with, um, mental strength and resilience, and just, like, not showing up as the best version of myself outside of running.
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And I was talking to my girlfriend Kate about it, and she was like, "You choose discomfort constantly in running, and you just, like, can't do it in, in life sometimes."
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And this was specifically around, like, w- we were fostering a puppy, and I was just getting crushed by, like, the change in routine, and the, like, waking up in the middle of the night and doing all the things that are, like, outside of my routine, and, and changing the schedule and all this stuff.
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And I was like, yeah, maybe I just need to, like, set a crazy goal and do something wildly uncomfortable- Yeah... and let myself grow. Uh-huh. So maybe I will. It's part of the stretch, yeah. Yeah.
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That's how I felt with the 50K, was just like, I, this feels crazy. Like, 30 miles- Yeah... is a long way, and what is that gonna feel like? But it was fun.
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It's so interesting because, and I love that you said that, because I live in Boulder where, like, people run 50Ks every weekend.
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[laughs] And I think I was telling you, like, Hayden would come over every week after he and Dan Jones would run 50K as, like, a training run, and we'd, like, take a sauna.
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[laughs] And I can't sauna after, like, a 15 mile run. [laughs] No. And it's just, like, so normalized to run these far distances. And I'm like, that's really freaking far. It is far.
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Like, all the people here that ran 50K yesterday- Yeah. [laughs]... and they're just, like- Fine... jogging. Yeah. And they're fine. I'm like, this is...
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But, but I think that's what's really cool about everything's relative. The context is constantly shifting.
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And, like, if I looked at the runner I was 10 years ago, he wouldn't recognize what I'm doing today, and I think that's a lot of the, the beauty of the sport. Yeah. I feel that way, too.
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Yeah, 10 years ago me wouldn't have [laughs] never believed I'd be here talking to you. [laughs] 10 years ago was 2016. Were you at Northern Arizona? No, I was still in college.
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Yeah, I had just started at Utah, so I still, no All-Americans yet. Yeah. Like, nothing. Yeah. What would you say to that version of Grayson? [laughs] Buckle up. [laughs] This is, this, like, little sport.
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You're not gonna believe what's- Yeah... what you're gonna see. No. [laughs] Yeah. Yeah, or the places you're gonna go and the people you're gonna meet. Yeah. So cool. Just hang on.
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One of the things that you've added to your repertoire is sitting right next to us here. What is, what is this?
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By the way, if you are listening to this podcast, it is, and wondering what we're pointing at, it is also available on YouTube to watch so you can see what we're pointing at.
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But Grayson, what, what is this, uh- This is our Wild Strides Paper Company training log and planner. Show it to the camera. Um, we have a green cover this year as well. This is a purple cover.
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But yeah, this has been my little passion project, side hustle turned full hustle [laughs] business for the last, this is year eight of this. And I think when we first talked, it was, like, brand new.
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Year two or something. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it's been really fun. And yeah, we've grown a lot.
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Now we have these, and then we have some other stationary, like, stickers and journals, um, for athletes, and it's all just, like, fun athlete themed.
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We've had a couple collabs, one with Hillary Allen, one with the Subhub Podcast.
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So it's been fun to, like, have another way to connect with the running community outside of racing and race results, and also learn, I've learned a lot of life skills, [laughs] yeah, and business skills along the way.
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And we've expanded. Brittany Miller's our managing director now. So I don't, I'm not shipping out of my garage anymore, which is huge, yeah.
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[laughs] Um, and then we have a coaching collective that we added last year, so that's, like, just been really cool to, like, see it grow and do something other than race. What's been the inspiration behind all of that?
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I've always had an entrepreneurial spirit. The number of things I tried to sell when I was a kid. Tried to sell sock monkeys on Etsy, uh, which I think I did sell a couple. Lemonade, we had lots of lemonade stands.
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Me and my sister had a leaf raking business, which actually we raked it in. You raked it in. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, nice. Literally. I sold [laughs] I wanted to sell spongies.
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I don't know what I was thinking, but made clothes for, like, these sponges, and thought it was, like, the next big hit. It was not. Um-Yeah, but this one stuck, I guess.
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[laughs] So it's been cool to like see that happen and Is it the curiosity of like what can you build? Yeah, I think so. And, and seeing other people sell stuff and being like, "Why can't I do that and figure it out?"
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And just f- figure it out. What did the figuring it out process look like? How have you, how have you done that? Yeah, I guess starting from the beginning was like how do you create something like this?
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And I'm not a digital designer, so I had to... I, the first year would draw it all and then send it to a designer, and she'd digitize everything. And then
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since then have been like all kinda like mock up stuff, and I've gotten better at Adobe now and Canva. I'm proficient. Uh, but we still have a designer. Then sourcing everything too, um,
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and all the materials, and the paper type and quality, and what's cheaper and what still gives you a margin on things, and where do you get this stuff? How to build a website. Like, all these things.
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It's like all these cool life skills that I've picked up along the way that I can use. How to market something, a product, that's not like my personal brand. It's been really cool.
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Networking- And you've done some partnerships on, on, with that, and worked with creators and other, other people to promote- Yeah... your product. Yeah, which is cool 'cause...
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And that's been a little easier 'cause I know the other side of it, um, so that's helpful.
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But yeah, I mean, like, even reaching out to podcasts and like how can we advertise this, and what does that look like, especially with social media algorithms changing rapidly and not being as reliable as they were four years ago.
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What was it like to be a total beginner in a space like that? Honestly, I kinda like it, and that's how I felt about running too when I started, was it's cool. There's no pressure, and it's just like a
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learning experience, which I enjoy. There's definitely some overwhelming points. I've had some tears, some shipping mishaps that, yeah, you correct later. But yeah, I- it's, uh, good, good life lessons.
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[laughs] This episode is brought to you by Mount to Coast, the award-winning footwear brand built for runners who go long, and I mean really long. You may have heard of the Double Boston.
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It's exactly what it sounds like and also completely insane in the best way.
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A group of runners will kick off on Marathon Monday at 3:00 AM, starting at the finish line on Boylston Street and running the entire course in reverse, all 26.2 miles back to Hopkinton.
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Then, after a short break to eat and recover, seven of these runners will toe the line and run the official Boston Marathon, 52.4 miles back to back in opposite directions.
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Mount to Coast is sponsoring that group because of course they are.
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This is a brand that literally makes shoes for some of the world's most extreme long distance races, including Badwater, a 135-mile race through Death Valley. Going long is kind of their thing.
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And to celebrate Boston weekend, I'll be joining that first marathon, and I'm doing a live podcast recording with Joe Corson of Everyday Ultra, presented by Mount to Coast, Sunday at 1:00 PM at Marathon Sports right at the finish line in Boston.
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We're going to talk about how to move up in distance, what it really takes to run ultras, and the gear that makes it all possible. Seats are limited, and the link to register is in the show notes. Come on out and say hi.
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And check out Mount to Coast at mounttocoast.com. And while we're talking about Boston, on Saturday at 5:00 PM, head to the Boston Marathon Expo for a panel I'm hosting you won't wanna miss.
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It's called How We Can Make America's Cities Safe to Run For All. We're bringing together real experiences and real solutions to make running safer for every single one of us. See you there.
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What's firing you up in running maybe as a fan of the sport right now? That's a great question.
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I think the seeing all the women doing well and kind of like participation numbers in trails specifically rising has been really cool to see.
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I feel like we're finally seeing sub-ultra kind of have its moment, which I've been waiting for. The Andy Wacker effect. Yeah. [laughs] Andy's done so much for the sport, and it's been cool to like...
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I feel like I got in there, but it was still pretty early, and now it's cool to see other people f- coming like straight out of college into trail and sub-ultra, which is kind of what I did, and when I did it, people were like, "What are you doing?"
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[laughs] And now it's more normal, and I love that. Did you see the trail media house- No... that is launching in Boulder? Actually, yes, I did see that. Can we talk about this for a second? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
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Do you have opinions or thoughts? I mean, I wanna watch. Yeah. It seems cool. It's like a reality show, but I, I- But real life... from what I read. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh.
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Um, so for those who aren't familiar, uh, there are a couple of brands that are putting together...
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So Brad, the, the founder of Lever, um, Brad Miles, has a property in Boulder, and he is friends with Hyperlite and Jeremy and Emery, who run Hyperlite, which is a sports and nutrition company, and they got, uh, their start, or they started with Hans Troyer- Mm-hmm...
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and a video that got, I don't know, two million views, uh, in his build-up to, was it Western States? Black Canyon. Or Black Canyon, yeah.
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Um, and so they stumbled into like media as being the, the tip of the spear, or like how to learn about the brand.
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And so the idea is put a bunch of post-collegiate trail runners who are unsponsored in a house and let them cook.
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[laughs] And give them cameras, give them access, um, to capture content, and then give them the tools to like just train and let other people produce the content. Yeah. And so I think it's a r- super cool concept.
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I'm helping them a little bit with the, um, partnership side of things and finding other brands that wanna give them products. So if you're a brand that is- Do they need training logs?
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They probably do need training logs. Okay. [laughs] We'll get them training logs. [laughs] Um, so if you're a brand in or out of the running space and you wanna play with, uh, play with this concept, uh, let's chat.
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Great. John@forthelong.run. [laughs] Um, but-Yeah, I th- I think it's such a cool idea, and it's hopefully the future of where the sport is headed, like more access. Yeah.
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And I think that's, like, a huge reason that you've had the ability... Y- you're in a place where it, for you, it's not just performance, it's the storytelling.
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'Cause this has always been a part of what, what you're doing, and hopefully it's a lesson that other people can learn as well. Yeah, I think so.
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I think it's definitely given me access to more partnerships than some other athletes. And even though now I try not to...
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The influencer and pro athlete line is very gray right now, uh, and I try not to be too much on the influencer side. But yeah, it's been a cool way to, like, fund this and make sure that I'm supported.
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And it's easy just... Well, for me, it's easy just being yourself. For some people, I think sharing can be difficult, and that's not a knock to them. But yeah, it's cool.
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Speaking of, uh, non-running brands, we should have had a cup of Pioneer Pastures- Yeah... and cheers some, some a2 Milk. Yeah. Uh, do you wanna talk more about that partnership- Sure. Yeah...
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and, and what that looks like, and why it's such a home run for you? Yeah. Yeah. Well, you connected us, so thank you very much. They're a Bozeman brand, which is really cool, and I've never...
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I don't think I've worked with a brand that's in the same city as me, so it's cool to, when we meet, we meet in person- Oh, cool... which is awesome. Um- Yeah, I learned they were in Bozeman.
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I was like, "Okay, this is another reason [laughs] I need to meet Grayson." Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, it was perfect, and it's been cool.
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Like, they make the a2 milk, um, which is more easily digestible, and then they also have the protein shakes, which are really good, and Logan drinks all of them. [laughs] So good. Yeah.
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And I'm always like, "No, those are mine." Um, yeah, so it's been really fun to work with them. We did an activation at the Every Women's Marathon in November, and that was huge success.
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We had like 200 people show up for this group run, and yeah, it's just cool to work with, like, non-endemic partners like that.
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And I know you've always been a big proponent of working with partners outside of the direct running space, but that want to be, like, running and athlete adjacent. Yeah. Um, and Lagoon is like that, too.
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Lagoon Sleep that I work with. They're so supportive, and it's nice to have those partners, too. And then your main Salomon running sponsor. Yeah, I think this is hopefully a future that is here sooner rather than later.
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I am kicking off a partnership with a meat delivery company called Good Ranchers, so we're coming full circle with the dairy and- [laughs] Yeah. [laughs] like, like full cow.
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[laughs] Um, but the f- the conversation I had with Good Ranchers was effectively like, runners need iron, runners need protein, and they need quality sources of meat. Mm-hmm.
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Um, and this is a brand that has sponsored IndyCar races before. Oh, nice. And so, like, the, the spend in a running property is minuscule compared to the spend of an IndyCar. Yeah, I bet.
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And so the whole bet was basically like, everyone listening to this podcast is either vegan or a perfect customer for [laughs] Yeah... for them. Or vegetarian or- That's perfect. Yeah... or a perfect customer for them.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so it's, like, another opportunity to bring something to the audience that will help them, will help them with energy, will help them with food, will help them with convenience for bringing something into their house that they can feed their family with.
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Um, but it's not a shoe. It's not, it's not, you know, precision. It's not, um, something that you consume while you're, while you're running. And these non-running brands are realizing that, like,
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we are a great demographic, and we buy things, and there are plenty of things that we need. Yeah.
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And so, like, m- my, one of my whole goals is to, like, bring more money into running to cover media, to cover athletes and events, and just, like, really prop up the whole space.
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So it's really cool to hear the experience of working with a company like Pioneer Pastures that it's, like, a milk sponsor. Yeah.
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Um, but, like, I haven't drank dairy in probably 20 years, and because I'm lactose intolerant, but I can drink Pioneer Pastures. [laughs] Perfect. Yeah. So it's- It's so good...
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like I told them, and they're like, "Yes, duh, this makes sense." You can drink it. Yeah.
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Yeah, and I wasn't really not on the milk train either because I also had Crohn's and, like, stomach issues, and it's so much gentler, and I can have these shakes and not be in the bathroom, [laughs] which is amazing.
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And it tastes really good, too. So yeah, it's been fun. So as an athlete, what is it… Talk more about the, the benefit of having non-running sponsor- non-running brand sponsors. I think- Like, why is this important?
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Well, from a financial standpoint, it definitely just makes you feel more stable. Um, but also, it's tough when you're competing if you're just looking at all the running sponsors.
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You're competing with all the other pro runners, and that can get really competitive, and unless you have sometimes, like, the best resume, you might not get that spot.
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But with these non-endemic partners, they might not need you to be winning everything. They can have you- Show up to an- Yeah... event- Yeah... and run a, run a group run.
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Yeah, and be good at storytelling on social media.
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But also, that's another reason to have, like, a social media presence, 'cause likely you're not gonna have these non-endemic sponsors without some sort of social media interaction, for better or worse, and kind of finding that balance is up to everyone.
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But I think it's, it's important. It's also nice to have brands that are like, "We just wanna support you. We don't care if you win. Just, like, get out there." Partic- particularly in this season. Yeah. Yeah.
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Especially right now. Um, is there anything else that, uh, that you wanted to, to chat through today?
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I'm really excited to… I just… Well, when I was doing the negotiation process with my agent and talking to brands, it was really important that the brand had great road and trail products, and Salomon was kind of, like, in that short list of brands, and it's just been… I feel really grateful that that worked out the way it did, so I'm really excited for all the products they have coming up, and I'm still learning all the shoe names.
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Um, but yeah, it's been really fun to- Are you courting Molly to join you? Yeah, I should. [laughs] And I've been taking tips from Dan, asking him, like, "What shoe is this? And what should I wear it for?
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And what clothing item is this?" And yeah, it's been really fun, so excited to explore a new partnership- Cool... moving forward. Awesome. Well, Grayson, this has been a blast. Thank you.
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Uh, thanks for sharing your story, and, uh, we'll see you out there. Thank you. That's it for today's episode. Like many long runs with friends, it's sad when it has to end.
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Join us next time as we continue to share inspiring stories from the running community. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a friend or training partner who you think would like it, too.
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This podcast was produced by Emma Benner of Sandy Boy Productions with musical composition by Brian Walters of Single Track Sound. Thank you for your support, and we'll see you out there. [outro music]
