Figure Eights (A Music Podcast) - Episode 71 w_ Don Hardy (Award winning Filmmaker)

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You are listening to the Figure Eights podcast. I'm your
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host Nick Leet from the band High on Stress Sadam Minneapolis, Minnesota,
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and today's guest is award winning filmmaker Don Hardy.
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Out of the Bay Area.
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You may remember a few episodes back, I had Jim Brunzell.
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He's the director of the Sound Unseen Film Festival, and
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he graciously had me attend a couple of the movies,
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one being the Devo film, which was fantastic, and then
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Linda Perry's Let It Die Here, which was made by
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Don and Don and Linda were both in attendance, and
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after seeing this film, I'm like, I need to talk
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to Don because that movie was fantastic. No, I didn't
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know a lot about Linda Perry. Knew four non Blonde,
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knew she wrote hit songs for pop artists, married to
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Sarah Gilbert. At one time, I didn't really know know
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Linda Perry. And when you watch this film, you will
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know a lot about Linda Perry. Very open, courageous, and awesome.
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I walked out of there a fan, and I hope
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you'll all watch it because I think it was just
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a fantastic film. And I told Don one of the
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best music documentaries I've ever seen, and coming in, like
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I said, Linda Perry right walking out of that, just
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amazed by her, her struggle, her process, the whole works.
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The thing was fantastic.
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So, without further ado, I give you Don Hardy.
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Are you back back home again? Yeah? Back in the
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Bay Area for a couple of weeks after a whirlwind.
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I was in LA and then Minnesota, than Portland and
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then back and yeah, just trying to kind of get
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things tidied up before the end of the year. Nice.
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How was the trip? Was it all for the Linda
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Perry doc. Yeah? Yeah, in Minneapolis and Portland, Yes, and
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then there's this new one where I think it's starting
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to embark on. It's kind of about some some folks
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in Ukraine and musicians that they pulled up to fight.
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And so that was what I was in LA for. Gotcha? Gotcha?
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Well, I was at the Linda Perry Dock at the
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Parkway in Minneapolis. I took my daughter to it. She's
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a big she's eleven. She's a big music head. Loves singing.
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Any any female artist she gets even more excited about.
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So I'm like, you know what you know, I had
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Jim Brunzell on here a couple of weeks prior, so
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that's why I was.
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You know, I checked it out and I'm like, this movie, Like,
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I kind of want to do it, you know. I
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like Linda Perry all right, don't know much about her story,
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and then I.
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I was floored by this thing.
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I couldn't believe how good it was, and so I
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was like, I need to talk to Don so I
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appreciate it.
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Wow, I appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, thank you, thanks for
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making time to come see it, and yeah, I'm really
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proud of the film. And as we said on stage,
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I think, you know, it became a lot about just
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sort of the two of us in a room, you know,
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sort of me there listening as she kind of walked
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through all of the twist and turns of her life,
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and in some ways a lot of her The question
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she was asking and the situation with her family that
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was unfolding mirrored mine in many ways, and so I
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think it was. Yeah, it was profound for both of
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us and something will probably carry with us for a
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long time. Yeah. So how long you've been in filmmaking?
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You know, I started my career as a journalist. I
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worked for in TV news for Fox, Fox, NBC, ABC
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affiliates in New York and South Florida, and then made
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my way to California in the early two thousands, and
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this is where I met a couple of people that
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also shared my interest in documentary filmmaking, and we did
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a couple of things for the news, and then somewhere
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around like two thousand and five, got the idea to
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try to make make something independently. And yeah, and since then,
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you know, so we're coming up on almost twenty years
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of making documentaries and I've directed I believe nine features
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and a whole bunch of shorts and a series for
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Disney plus so been added a while and finally kind of,
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you know, I feel like I know it I'm doing.
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But these these things always have a way of sneaking
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up and surprising you too.
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Yeah, I bet that's probably the fun part, right, You're
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going down the line one way, and then the curveballs
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are usually the really interesting stuff that you did well.
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To me, that's what makes it interesting when you're trying
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to pitch somebody on something. If you're trying to pitch
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them to get you know, financing, They want to know
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all of the beats of the story. And what I
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guess I've learned over the years is just make it
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up because it's never going to be what you think
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it's going to be, but you know, sort of put
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the perfect world scenario together and who knows, maybe it'll
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maybe it'll come close, or maybe it'll you know, surpass
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what you could even dream up. Gotcha, what were you
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doing there? Pretty much videographer, but started doing a lot
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of producing, and you know, I think it's in many
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ways good training for this because you have to be
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able to change really quickly on the fly. You've got
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to adapt to what the story is actually what is
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happening versus whatever the producer fantasia was that when you
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went out that morning. So shooting and editing is where
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I really started doing this, and back then there was
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it was in a time before nonlinear editing too, which
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is almost laughable at this point because you can edit
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stuff on your phone and rearrange it and do whatever. Right. Yeah,
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but that's how I started, and I worked with some
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really good reporters and producers along the way and just
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tried to pick up as much as I could from them,
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And you know, I always had this really profound interest
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in documentary film that goes way back to when I
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was I don't know, twelve or thirteen years old and
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I saw The Thin Blue Line, Air Morris's film about
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the Men in Texas that was on death row for
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the murder of a police officer, and something about that
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movie just really connected it. It was cinematically very interesting, but
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the power, you know, the story with that is when
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the film came out, it helped get a man, the
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Men released from death row, and it just felt like
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such a powerful thing, like, wow, a film, could you
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do that or at least really helped do that. And
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my father was a big news junkie, so you know,
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I think those two things set me on a path
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of like I didn't know how to get into film
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from my small town in upstate New York, but I,
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you know, through a friend, ended up getting into a
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newsroom and just really loved the energy of that and
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the idea that we were doing some good. That's cool.
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What did your parents do? My dad was a school
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teacher and my mom an insurance agent. Gotcha. Okay, so
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pretty normal folks, but it was really Yeah, my dad's
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interest in the news that I think pulled me in
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And yeah, I was right there too. Yeah, I just
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turned fifty this year, and I do remember the early
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eighties when when cable first kicked off and suddenly we
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had the idea of the twenty four hour news cycle.
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Feels like it's been there for me since I was
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ten years old at this point, you know, and now
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it's become this whole other thing where it's people aren't
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even getting their news there, apparently they're getting it from
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TikTok and interesting.
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So were your parents pretty supportive of your move into
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working these types of jobs or what was that like
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early on?
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Well, yeah, they were very supportive of my career in
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the news industry. They like that, you know, these are
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big brands, you know, ABC, C, NBC, things that they knew.
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But when I when I was ready to, you know,
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deep into making my first feature doc, when I realized
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I couldn't really juggle the full time job and do that,
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and we were getting some really interesting connections that we
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were making on the on the film, the most notable
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being Sean Penn. A friend of us had connected us
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to him, and Sean had agreed to come out and
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narrate that film, and I just felt like, there's no
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way I'm going to be able to do that well
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and hold down this fifty hour week job. And so
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at that point, I remember talking to my folks and
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just saying, and they're like, you're really gonna leave NBC
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to go chase this. It was certainly a little little
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foreign to them, for you know, people that really you know,
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value that bedroom, you know, a steady paycheck of flour
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oh one k and things like that. But yeah, I
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think they knew that I was going to do it,
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and I'd always wanted to be involved in film, So
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they didn't stand in the way. And I was three
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miles away, so there wasn't much they could They couldn't
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get in your way. Literally, Yeah, and I was incredibly fortunate.
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A friend of mine was also contemplating leaving the news business,
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and she was moving over to work for a local
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water district, and she offered me, you know, this is
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again like two and four, two thousand and five, when
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the term at that point was rich media content. It
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was one of the things that she'd been asked to
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do for this water district to create the rich media content.
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So she said, would you come over and do video work,
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you know, for me at this district and you can
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do it like part time and it'll give you time
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to finish your film. And I did it good. And
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that was you know, living in San Francisco Bay Area,
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it's not a cheap place to live. So yeah, it
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was scary, you know, it was. I had a good
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job going at NBC. We were doing a business and
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technology show every week that was syndicated to several markets.
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You know. I was doing a lot of the investigative stuff,
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so it was a good job. But yeah, it was
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the right time and forces aligned and picked the plunge.
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And I feel incredibly fortunate to live now, almost twenty
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years as a documentary filmmaker, still doing you know, corporate
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stuff things like that to help pay the bills. But yeah,
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I feel very lucky.
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That's awesome. And what was that first movie? Was that
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the Sean Penn movie that you were Yeah, it's a.
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Film called witch Hunt, and it is about the wrongful
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conviction of a bunch of working class folks in Bakersfield, California,
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in the early eighties. They were caught up in in
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the satanic panic of the time and accused of horrible
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crimes against children, in many cases their own children, and
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all of them were locked up in prison for up
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to twenty years. And so when my filmmaking partner early
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on is a woman named Dana Knackman. When Dana and
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I first found out about this story, we did it
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as a series of reports of will the main guy,
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his name is John, so will he get out of prison?
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And we did it as a series for NBC San
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Francisco and followed it all the way through, and John
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ultimately gets exonerated and released from prison, and we would
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hang out with him from time to time, and he
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didn't know many people having spent twenty years in prison,
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so we befriended him, and he started telling us about
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all of these other people that went through similar case
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to his, and our station didn't want to follow it anymore.
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They'd done their part on it, I guess, and they
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saw that it was outside of their target market, and
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so we said, well, let's try to Let's try to
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do this as an independent documentary, not knowing anything really
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about the film business other than having some belief that
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we knew how to tell a compelling story. So we
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set out trying to do it. And this friend of
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ours who had become friendly with Sean Penn, heard about
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it at some time when we were early in production
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and just was encouraging us, like, oh, something my friend
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Sean would be interested in. And we're like, that's great,
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but he's never going to be interested in right, Yeah,
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that sounds great. He was just coming off of Dead
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Man Walking and we knew about his activism and he
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just kept encouraging us, and we didn't wait. We just
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kept making the movie, but you know, putting it on
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credit cards, you know, doing all of that stuff. And
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then it fairly late in the process, I think we
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already had a solid rough cut of the film. We
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finally did get the call that Sean was going to
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watch it and invited us up to his house and
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you know, walked in the door and he said, this
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is an amazing piece of work. I'd love to be involved.
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And you know, that just took it to a whole
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other place. Who could end up going to a huge
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film festival and selling it and it really, you know,
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it was a dream come true. And we didn't know
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at that time just how rare something like that is
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that the pieces would come together as they as they did,
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but that you know, and because of that, the film
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I Believe came out in two thousand and eight, and
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it led me on this path to try to pay
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Sean back for believing in me when me and us
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when in our film when he didn't have to. That's
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what led me to Haiti in twenty ten, when he
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went there after the earthquake to try to do some
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good and then you know, ten years later I ended
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up making a movie about that, stayed stayed friends with
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him over over the decades now. So it's been interesting,
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interesting ride, right.
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So when you're making these movies, especially early on, how
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do you go about funding? You mentioned credit cards, but
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do you actively go out and try to find somebody
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to fund the thing or what's what's that process like
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for anyone listening who's like, you know what, I want
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to do the thing and I don't know Sean Penn?
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Sure, well yeah, I think that. Yeah. I get asked
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this from time to time now because I have been
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doing it for a while and I don't think there's
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one right way for you know, we've done them all,
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from putting them on our credit cards to crowdfunding to
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grants to going more traditional funding, you know, roots and
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now I'm producing a couple of flicks for people, and
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it's the same struggle over and over again. It's never
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easy to find money. But I've always looked at it
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like your potential investors are in a couple of buckets.
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You have your friends and family. They kind of have
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to kick in because they owe you one, and you've
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probably donated to their bake sale or whatever they're doing.
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So you have them, and then you have the folks
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that really believe in the issue at the core of
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the story you're telling, and a lot of times that's enough.
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And when you're doing something about a wrongful conviction, or
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we did a movie called The Human Experiment about chemicals
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and their effects on human health, there's a lot of
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people that really believe strongly in that issue, and so
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you can set it up as as a donation through
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like a there's a thing called the five oh one
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c threes that like an umbrella that you can be
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under so you can get the money and they can
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get the donation credit. There's a lot of different ways
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to do it, but at the core of it, I
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think it comes back to the story that you're trying
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to tell and your passion for telling it, and if
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you're not incredibly passionate about it in a way that
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like I just it keeps me up at night. I
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know I have to tell this you probably it's going
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to be really tough to see it through. But if
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you approach it from that, I have to figure out
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a way to do this. The upshot upside right now
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is cameras are cheaper than they were fifteen years ago
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by far. Editing software is virtually free now. Da Vinci
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Resolve is an amazing set a tool got It's free. Yeah,
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so there are a lot of ways to get them
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made in avenues in which to distribute them if you're
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not trying to make a bunch of money from it.
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That's the part that people don't talk about a lot.
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With the democratization of filmmaking that people do like to
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talk about it. Anybody can do it, and I'm not
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here to paint a rosy pitch sure of the other side.
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You know, how do you monetize this, get you and
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your crew paid back and let alone maybe make some
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make a few dollars. That's really hard right now. Business
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is constricting. The big streamers control everything and they're they're
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not acquiring many titles from independent producers. So it's something
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in my circles that gets talked about a lot, like, great,
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we can make these and maybe we can get them
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into a top tier festival. But then still, you know,
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where does it go? It's a big question.
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And I'm a musician, so I get a lot of that.
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That's definitely how do you make any money doing doing this?
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How do you make any money? That is the you
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can figure that one out. I'm all, heres, Yeah, it's
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it's hard. Somebody put it to me that the film
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has really become what music was fifteen years ago or
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ten years ago, whenever Spotify really changed the game, and
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it is hard. You know, the people at the top
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the tailor swifts and will always be able to make money.
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But for you know a lot of the folks starting
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out or you know, mid tier, it's really challenging. But
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I will say this, your skills are transferable to you know,
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so many places now have media divisions within companies, and
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there are ways to get you know, to pay the
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bills and still keep honing your craft. The corporate stuff
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I tend to do now is really just as I'm
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developing newer, bigger projects. I need to fill the gaps
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with money, but I also need to keep my skills
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somewhat sharp. I need to keep crews going and figuring
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out what the new equipment is out there, figuring out
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just remembering how you know, everything from the hard drives
331
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to the computer program to the cloud based whatevers are working.
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And so, you know, I think that that often gets
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lost in it. And when I talk to people that
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are you know, they've got check a couple of the
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boxes of I got a story I really want to tell.
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I got a camera kind of know how to use,
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and a couple of you know, people that I can
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lean on to carry carry the lights and maybe like
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they can do some editing. That's a lot. But you know,
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where's the money going to come from? They always ask me,
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And the answer is nowhere unless you go find it.
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Nobody is going to fund your your dream unless they
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really see a way that they're going to profit from it.
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So you just have to take to take that core
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and start making it. And that is one of the
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things John Penn said to me early on that you can,
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as you can imagine, somebody in his position gets hit
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up a lot. He's one of the few people that
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really walks the walk and isn't afraid to get involved
350
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in somewhat edgy projects. But he's like, I'm really impressed
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that you guys just kept making the film. And I'm like, yeah, well,
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we weren't going to just wait for you to, you know,
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say yes, because most likely we figured you were going
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to say no. And but most people that approach him
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do stop and wait and want him to solve it.
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And I think, you know, it's not just unique to him,
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but so many of the people that I meet in
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this and that I try to mentor just stop and wait.
359
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And once you lose that momentum, you're going to get
360
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pulled into something else.
361
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It's inevitable, right, And when you're doing something creative, waiting
362
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is exactly conducive to great creativity?
363
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Is it that time kills everything? That kills everything?
364
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So did you go to school for this before you
365
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got into these news jobs or how did you get
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into that?
367
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Yeah? I went to school for communications and media arts.
368
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It was a small year school in upstate New York,
369
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and then got very fortunate to get a foot in
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the door at the TV station there. I'd worked in
371
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radio when I was in high school. I just kind of,
372
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you know, always pursued it and got lucky with a
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friend of my dad's was a TV news reporter and
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he sort of opened that door. And my first job
375
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was four hours a week retyping prompter stories.
376
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Ah, not a lot of fun for that. One got
377
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to get your foot in the door fun. But the
378
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teleprompter was first. I learned how to type, which was important.
379
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But scripts back then were written on a typewriter with
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it was called like a Q set, I believe, and
381
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it had you know.
382
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You type in it. But it would make like seven
383
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copies of it at once, and one would go to
384
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the anchor, one would go to the director and so on,
385
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and one would come to me. And I would have
386
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to take that script and retype it into a Commodore
387
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sixty four and then take the floppy disc out of
388
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:02.720
that and walk it into the studio, put it into
389
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.799
another Commodore sixty four, and then roll the prompter and
390
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:10.799
run a studio camera. That was my job, and it
391
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:14.400
wasn't great, but it was like I was able to
392
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get in there and befriend befriended the sports guy. He
393
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:20.240
put a camera in my hands to go shoot high
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school you know, basketball games nice and I was kind
395
00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.640
of my attitude for it grew. And so college was there,
396
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:31.680
and I think there was you know, it was useful
397
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:34.839
getting into like film theory classes things like that, but
398
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:40.079
the hands on newsroom experience is really where I learned
399
00:23:40.119 --> 00:23:41.160
everything interesting.
400
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.559
And then you mentioned also you did something for the
401
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:45.400
Disney Channel.
402
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:50.079
Yeah, we did a movie in twenty eighteen called Pick
403
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:52.599
of the Litter and it follows five puppies on their
404
00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:55.680
quest to become guy Dougs for the blind. Oh cool,
405
00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:57.839
So a really neat story. From the moment the dogs
406
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:00.160
are born, you know, you learn a lot about themlearn
407
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.480
about people that are struggling with, you know, with blindness.
408
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.720
And that movie ended up going to the slam Dance
409
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:13.039
Film Festival, which at that point ran at the same
410
00:24:13.079 --> 00:24:16.039
time as Sundance, and it became sort of the talk.
411
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:17.759
The talk of the festival is one of the I
412
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.880
think it was the first film sold that year. And
413
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.680
as it was getting ready to go out into the world,
414
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.079
IFC Films was going to put it in theaters and
415
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:33.079
then Hulu was going to take it for streaming. Bob
416
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:38.680
Iger from Disney saw the trailer. I guess this is
417
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.000
the story as I heard it, so I'll just repeat it.
418
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:45.000
He saw the story or his girlfriend saw the trailer
419
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:47.200
or something, and it was right as they were getting
420
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:52.000
ready to launch Disney Plus, and so he told his people, dogs,
421
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I want dogs, Get me some dogs. Suddenly we get
422
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.720
a call from the business affairs people at Disney Plus
423
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:03.839
and they wanted to option our film to make it
424
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:08.319
into this series. And it was really interesting to work.
425
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:10.960
And you know, I've been an independent filmmaker for now
426
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:14.319
a number of years, and now suddenly I'm thrust into
427
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:16.759
this thing working for like one of the biggest companies
428
00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:20.960
in the world. And they partnered us with the alternative
429
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:25.880
division of ABC Studios. So they they're the ones that
430
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:29.279
handled like most of the unscripted like reality from Reality
431
00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.240
TV up, you know, to kind of documentaries, but they
432
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:37.720
never really dealt with us, US Northern Californian documentary people
433
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:40.279
who are a little different. So we tried to blend
434
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:44.799
that together to make this show, and I think it
435
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:51.720
was going well, but then the Fox they merged, Disney
436
00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:56.079
merged with Fox or they acquired Fox and virtually everybody
437
00:25:56.160 --> 00:25:58.440
that was in our division of ABC studios we were
438
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:04.240
working with. Everybody got fired, so now we were show
439
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:06.680
became a bit of an orphan, but I'm really proud
440
00:26:06.720 --> 00:26:11.000
of it. People, It's not on Disney Plus anymore, which
441
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.240
is weird. I was going to ask, where do you
442
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:15.599
see it? Called a lot of the programming. But still
443
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.720
if people email me and I might have a secret
444
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:22.440
link I can share with some people just to well,
445
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:24.279
if you would, I would love to. I would love
446
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.319
to see my daughter. Of course, if I told her.
447
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:30.319
Linda Perry guy with the Dog Show on Disney, She's
448
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:34.480
gonna be like, drop everything, We're watching this, Yeah, no doubt.
449
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:38.039
No doubt. It's yeah. So a lot of lessons learned.
450
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:40.920
And you know, so we only did one one season,
451
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.359
six episodes, but it was quite an adventure and I
452
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.920
would love to be a showrunner on something else in
453
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:52.279
the future. I enjoy as much as I enjoy doing
454
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.160
you know, sort of the smaller, more intimate stuff, but
455
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.680
I enjoy having, you know, the big crew and having
456
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:05.640
maybe a bit more tools to play with on a
457
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:07.359
given day, right, right.
458
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.079
And what were the difference besides the crew and the
459
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.440
equipment from doing independent too, working specifically for Disney. I
460
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:16.240
suppose they had their hand in a lot and they
461
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:18.640
had some opinions, or do they kind of leave you
462
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:20.960
to do your thing?
463
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:26.480
Yeah, a bit of both. They we It was funny
464
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:31.640
the amount of sessions we went through about defining what
465
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:35.160
the show was. When I just wanted to say, well
466
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.519
that you have a whole movie already that tells you
467
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.559
what the show is. You know, you could just watch that.
468
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:43.920
But there was a lot of that, a lot of
469
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.119
kind of handwringing about you know, what is it going
470
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:50.880
to be? How can we you know, how can we
471
00:27:50.920 --> 00:27:57.519
do this grander and not really understanding the some of
472
00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:01.640
the limitations of you know, coming with dogs with you know,
473
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.839
and doing it in a real way, and people that
474
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:09.759
are the vision is impaired. You can't you know, you
475
00:28:09.799 --> 00:28:13.480
can't stage this, you can't. Like I remember at some
476
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.319
point a person said, well, can we just create a
477
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:19.480
scene for this show where a blind person walks into
478
00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:21.079
guide dogs for the blind and says, I would like
479
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:24.519
a dog please like But that would never it would
480
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:27.200
never happen in a million years for a million reasons,
481
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:31.559
Like there's a vetting process. A person who's visually impaired
482
00:28:31.599 --> 00:28:33.319
isn't going to climb on a bus and go to
483
00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:38.559
a place like There's So there was several conversations like
484
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:43.960
that that, Yeah, it made it somewhat challenging. And then
485
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:47.680
going through the rounds of notes. Ultimately I like notes,
486
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:50.359
I like, you know, to make sure that people are
487
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:55.160
picking up when I'm putting down. But but these we
488
00:28:55.160 --> 00:28:59.440
were caught between. The folks on the Disney side were
489
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.519
led by a more documentary centered person, more similar to
490
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:06.680
our aesthetic, and then before that was the ABC studio folks,
491
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:09.720
which were a little bit more reality. And so we
492
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:12.759
would make make a cut, then we would share it
493
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.319
with ABC and they would give us a bunch of
494
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:17.640
notes to make it more reality. We'd give it back
495
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.359
and then they'd move it. The next cut would go
496
00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:22.079
to Disney and they would say no, no, no, this
497
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:27.680
is way too much reality. Two sides. Yeah, yeah, a
498
00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.039
lot of the stories that you hear about dealing with
499
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:35.319
network stuff, you know, to me very true, I would imagine.
500
00:29:35.319 --> 00:29:39.599
But yeah, still still really a great experience that and
501
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.640
I'm very proud, you know, living in northern California, we
502
00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.839
have a bit of a rivalry with LA and to
503
00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:49.200
keep this show here and to use a lot of
504
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:51.640
the local folks that you know, I've either worked with
505
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:55.200
before or I've always wanted to and being able to use,
506
00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.079
you know, the little bit of power that we had
507
00:29:57.119 --> 00:29:59.480
for a minute to keep that show in northern California.
508
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.160
I'm really proud of that, and I would love to
509
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:02.920
do more here.
510
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:07.400
Very cool, Okay, And were you like a music guy
511
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.599
growing up? You mentioned that you were doing some DJ work.
512
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:13.440
Did you grow up loving music? How did how did
513
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:16.160
that go? Because he was a huge music.
514
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:23.839
Fan, you know, from very early on, and just I've
515
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:31.119
always gravitated towards the creation process. Where where did these
516
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:34.440
songs come from that become anthems that you're in your
517
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:39.200
head forever, and fascinated by that process of watching, you know,
518
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:44.759
the moment with the creative spark. So yeah, grew up
519
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:50.519
you know Springsteen and Neil Young and all of that stuff.
520
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.720
And of course you know Zeppelin and Pink Floyd are
521
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.319
in there somewhere too. What was your first concert? First
522
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:03.799
concert was Boston? Wow? My brother took me to see
523
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.920
Boston and I was just I don't know how old
524
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.039
I was twelve. Maybe before that i'd been to a
525
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.440
bunch of country music. My parents are big country music people.
526
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.920
So I saw like Kenny Rogers more times than I
527
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:20.960
cared to admit Kingston Trio and Eddie Rabbit and Oakridge Boys.
528
00:31:21.400 --> 00:31:23.480
I grew up in North Dakota, so that sounds like
529
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:24.559
North Dakota right there.
530
00:31:24.759 --> 00:31:29.640
It's North Dakota. A lot of Kenny Rogers. But then yeah,
531
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:32.400
my brother was into like Classic Rocks, So we went
532
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.960
we saw Boston and I remember seeing Rush at a
533
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.480
pretty young age, and Rush, yeah, really blew me away
534
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:44.519
because they had lasers. Yeah, things like that. Laziers are important.
535
00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:51.200
Lazers are huge. That's amazing. Did you ever play at all?
536
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.039
Or we just did? An appreciator of music a little bit,
537
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:57.279
you know, I fumbled around on guitar for a while,
538
00:31:57.319 --> 00:31:59.839
and I still think at some point, probably when I retire,
539
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.720
actually going to learn how to how to properly play one.
540
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:09.200
But just a great admiration for it for people that
541
00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:12.839
can just you know, work like that. And I think,
542
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:18.759
you know, the beats of it, you know, come into
543
00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:20.440
a lot of the things that I edit. I feel
544
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.839
like I edit like the beats of music to me.
545
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.240
And you know, our our editor on the Linda Perry
546
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:30.319
film Camille is a is a violinist, and you can
547
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:33.880
see it right in every way that she cuts that
548
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:39.359
the film. So I think they're tightly connected, even if
549
00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:42.720
even if I don't play, I think it's somewhere in
550
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:44.319
my brain. There's a reason.
551
00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.839
There's a reason why there's a lot of music and
552
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:48.920
movies that you tie together very nicely.
553
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:57.240
So how did you meet Linda? How did that come about? Yeah, Linda,
554
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.200
I met her while I was doing this movie. As
555
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:03.519
I mentioned, I went to I spent a lot of
556
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:06.839
time in Haiti with Sean Penn And what he did,
557
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.079
for those who don't know, is when a big earthquake
558
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:13.599
happened there in twenty ten, he loaded up a plane
559
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:16.799
full of supplies and blew it in, thinking he was
560
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.119
going to go in for a couple of weeks, try
561
00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:21.519
to do a little bit of good, and then get
562
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.559
out and go back to regular life. But he ended
563
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:29.000
up staying, and he created an organization that ran the
564
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:34.279
largest displaced person's camp in all of Haiti and eventually
565
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:39.240
started getting you know, they took down the National Palace
566
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:43.160
that had been damaged in the earthquake. They got into communities,
567
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.279
removing rubble so the streets could open back up. And
568
00:33:46.319 --> 00:33:49.680
business could get going. They started rebuilding houses, and through
569
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:52.440
the years I would I would go back as often
570
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:55.240
as I could to help document what was going on,
571
00:33:55.319 --> 00:33:59.720
but always fulting footage away, thinking maybe there's a movie here,
572
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:05.920
somewhere down the line. So in twenty twenty eighteen, write
573
00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:07.480
as pick of the litters coming out, and I have
574
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:11.079
a little bit of I'm cool for a minute. There's
575
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:14.800
very few cool moments in the filmmaker's life, but that
576
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:18.239
was one. And I remember going to Sean and saying,
577
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:22.280
I think I can get this movie finance. Now, what
578
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:25.199
do you say? And he'd always been reluctant to do
579
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:28.519
it because he didn't want it to seem like self serving. Sure,
580
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:30.920
but I said I need to you know, I think
581
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:33.880
I can do this now. I think the story is amazing.
582
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:36.519
We're coming up on a ten year anniversary of the earthquake,
583
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.039
and he said, go ahead and make it. So I
584
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:44.039
put together a trailer and we showed it at the
585
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:48.000
annual gala that his organization does, and Linda happened to
586
00:34:48.039 --> 00:34:50.960
be there. Oh wow, And so she saw the trailer
587
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.559
and she got a hold of me and said, I
588
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:58.679
really want to score this movie. And I said no way.
589
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:03.599
I said absolutely, not thinking like I'm already going to
590
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:06.039
have John Penn to deal with and it's taken me
591
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.079
ten years to get here. I don't know, you know,
592
00:35:09.119 --> 00:35:12.800
I've heard the stories that Linda can be difficult, but
593
00:35:13.239 --> 00:35:14.760
I went and met with her and we had a
594
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:19.960
really nice conversation and I said, yeah, let's let's do it.
595
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:24.159
And so this is you know, late twenty nineteen, I guess.
596
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:27.920
And we'd been given a good indication that we might
597
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:30.039
be able to get the film into Tribeca if we
598
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:33.400
could get it done in time. So we start working
599
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:38.880
on it, and then the pandemic happens, so we had
600
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.760
to stop working together. And once you know, we figured
601
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:45.679
out how to work, it was just doing this. It
602
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:49.320
was like having zooms talking about the movie, and the
603
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:51.920
movie was still like shifting shape, shifting a little bit
604
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:56.400
because Shawn's organization changed their entire focus once COVID happens
605
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.440
to now they're getting tests out the people, they're getting
606
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.599
there one of the first organizations that got vaccinations going
607
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:06.639
at Dodger Stadium in La Oh. Yeah, I remember remember
608
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:10.119
they were doing that there. Yeah, So the movie's changing.
609
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:13.920
But Lynda and I are just sort of getting through
610
00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:19.239
the pandemic together in a weird way, and then yehs
611
00:36:19.320 --> 00:36:22.840
that film wrapped up. At some point I was in
612
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:26.039
her studio and I just said, you know, would you
613
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:30.760
ever consider telling your story? Because I've gotten to nowhere
614
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:33.039
a bit more and I knew there was a lot there,
615
00:36:33.159 --> 00:36:36.320
more than just the hit songs. Was a person who
616
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.880
was just trying to figure life out, and it felt
617
00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.800
like a really compelling place to enter her story and
618
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:49.599
try to tell it. And she was reluctant. She didn't
619
00:36:49.639 --> 00:36:52.719
really want to be the focus of attention, but I
620
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:57.119
assured her that I wouldn't stop things. I wouldn't. She'd
621
00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:59.519
had a bad experience making a show for VH one
622
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.079
a few years before. She's like, you can't stop me.
623
00:37:02.159 --> 00:37:05.519
Like I moved the way that I moved, so you know,
624
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.679
I accepted those challenges and just trying to capture the
625
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:11.800
best I could and had no idea where the story
626
00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:12.360
was going to go.
627
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.000
When she said stop, you mean like if she was
628
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:17.840
working on something, it would be like, hey, can you
629
00:37:17.920 --> 00:37:19.559
go back and do that again so we can get
630
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:20.159
a different angle.
631
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.760
She's like, and or can you hit your mark over here?
632
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:27.519
You're all that's what you are, right, absolutely, if you
633
00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.159
say you're a fly on the wild, then just do that.
634
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.480
And I did, and we we got pretty deep in
635
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:38.679
the studio on a lot of days. We had some sessions.
636
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:40.840
She was working with Kate Hudson at the time, so
637
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:46.519
we spent several days working with her. And then then
638
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:48.840
you know, I think her her daughter Rhodes came to
639
00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:52.880
the studio and you know, that was a very personal
640
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:57.880
day and her giving access to that part of her life. Like,
641
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.760
I figured I would get the professional stuff, right, I
642
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.199
didn't know what eliot I'd get on the personal side.
643
00:38:03.519 --> 00:38:10.880
And yeah, it takes a lot to put yourself on
644
00:38:10.960 --> 00:38:14.840
display like that, and you know, you've seen the movie,
645
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:21.679
it goes, it goes pretty pretty far. But that authenticity
646
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:25.679
and honesty, I'm so grateful that she gave us that
647
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:28.239
window into what she was going through. And I think
648
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.280
that's what people are responding to in the film now.
649
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:32.360
I think so too. To your point, like.
650
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.480
My opinion of Linda Perry is Okay, there's the four
651
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.119
nine Blonde song. I know she's written for some pop stars,
652
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:42.360
you know, you know she was married to Sarah Gilbert,
653
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:44.239
so I'm like, I know that stuff that was kind
654
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:46.320
of it. So going in, I'm like, oh, this should
655
00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:49.159
be entertaining, should play some songs, and that thing.
656
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:53.320
That movie goes deep. It goes so deep.
657
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:55.480
So it sounds like you didn't even really know going
658
00:38:55.559 --> 00:38:58.920
in how much access or how far she was gonna
659
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:04.880
open up to it beyond her her process, her musical process.
660
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.440
Is that is that fair to say? Yeah, that's that's
661
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:13.039
a very fair statement, you know you. I think I
662
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:16.760
feel pretty confident now have been doing this for a
663
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:20.960
number of years that you just got to hang out.
664
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.440
You got to be there and be ready because you
665
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:27.119
just never never quite know to whatever degree you can,
666
00:39:27.199 --> 00:39:31.639
you can't be there twenty four to seven. But I
667
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.679
think if you just show that you're not like directing documentaries,
668
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.360
I always I feel a little even bashful with the
669
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.719
term because I don't think you're really directing it. You're
670
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:49.679
you're observing and reflecting on you know what, what have
671
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:53.519
I filmed before? Does this tie into anything? Is this?
672
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:55.639
You know? I don't see how this day is going
673
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:59.000
to work, But you know, Linda is very serious about it.
674
00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:02.920
So let's just film and seeing not put a big
675
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:09.280
preconception on it. And I think of You know, there's
676
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:15.400
a big revelation about halfway through the film that Linda
677
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:20.519
had a cancer diagnosis, and I had been working with
678
00:40:20.559 --> 00:40:22.800
her day in and day out going through this and
679
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.239
I had no idea until she says it in this interview.
680
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:30.119
And we don't have many formal interviews in the movie,
681
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:32.920
but on this day, I think I just asked her, like,
682
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:35.679
you know, so, how are you doing? Are you finding
683
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:39.559
more direction? And she just goes on this long story
684
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:42.320
about it, where I had to listen and then stop
685
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.320
and say, let me, what do you say? Because it
686
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:51.159
was such a bewildering moment that I couldn't have ever
687
00:40:51.239 --> 00:40:55.360
planned for. So those kind of things keep happening if
688
00:40:55.360 --> 00:40:57.719
you just keep if you open yourself up to it
689
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:02.320
and don't try to drive it, you know, to what
690
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:04.360
you want or I got to get out early today,
691
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.880
or you know, you just got to if you sign
692
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:08.400
up for a doc like this, you just got to
693
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.800
take the ride and know that you know, I'm not
694
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.920
quite sure where it's going to go. And I understand
695
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:20.119
that's incredibly hard, not just on you know, your own
696
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:25.280
family and your crew and your investors, but I think
697
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:28.000
that's the only way you get anything that's really honest.
698
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:31.960
And I think that's why a lot of the docs
699
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:36.800
you see now aren't pretty much just like a PR move.
700
00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:40.280
They're not very they don't have much depth to Yeah.
701
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:43.280
No, there's got to be a ton of trust with
702
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:44.880
folks that you're working with, too.
703
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:46.360
They have to get to know you.
704
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:48.239
I suppose it probably takes a little bit of time
705
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:50.639
and they're like, all right, they're not gonna they're not
706
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.559
going to do me dirty here, so I'm sure.
707
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.679
Yeah. Then there's still the lawyers which weren't there in
708
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:00.360
the room with you to don't They don't know exactly
709
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.800
how you've bonded on something. So it is a it
710
00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:07.760
is a tap dance, and I can't say that I've
711
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:14.679
perfected it, but you know, yeah, it is. It really
712
00:42:14.719 --> 00:42:18.440
does come down to trust and knowing you. I'm still
713
00:42:18.440 --> 00:42:20.920
can go by texting with Linda this morning, just like
714
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:23.719
asking we have a call, you know, an important call
715
00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:26.639
on the horizon, and you know, it's nice to be
716
00:42:26.679 --> 00:42:28.480
able to just go straight to her, I like can
717
00:42:28.519 --> 00:42:31.679
we do this? Are you okay with this? And she
718
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:37.039
will send me things back. So it's it's become more collaborative.
719
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:40.159
May now as we start to roll the movie out
720
00:42:40.199 --> 00:42:43.119
and show it to people. Then you know during it,
721
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:44.800
you know, I have to be a little bit guarded,
722
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.800
She's got to be a bit guarded, so you know
723
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:49.400
the relationship evolves. Right. Yeah.
724
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:51.840
I've been doing this podcast for four years and in
725
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.039
kind of that, that same sort of thing that the
726
00:42:55.039 --> 00:42:57.599
best episodes are the ones where people you don't know
727
00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.800
what's coming, someone throws something out there and you're just like,
728
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:07.719
holy shit, I'd ask. I'd ask Jason Faulkner from he
729
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.320
plays with Saint Vincent and he was in Jellyfish if
730
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.599
you remember them. I asked him, He's just sitting out
731
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:15.599
on his porch and silver Lake and ask him any regret,
732
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:19.400
any regrets, and he's like, you know, I've played with
733
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:22.119
Paul McCartney and I've done this and I've never owned
734
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:24.639
a house. And I'm like, wow, that's not something you
735
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:26.559
would ever think of, right. It's just those like kind
736
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.480
of real moments where people bring their guard down, where
737
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:32.039
like that's kind of interesting in things that people wouldn't
738
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:35.559
have thought of it. So that's that exploration in those
739
00:43:35.559 --> 00:43:37.480
conversations I can see being very fun.
740
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:39.920
And I love a statement like that too, because It
741
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:43.760
says so much about you know, he has had a
742
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:47.760
front row seat to people that are I mean, McCartney's
743
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:51.199
pretty much a billionaire at this point, and you know
744
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.880
that's great. It's certainly not about the money. I mean,
745
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.159
you got to go play with a beatle and that's great.
746
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.920
But he's you know, sweating maybe where next month's rent
747
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:03.280
or you know, where what is my legacy in this?
748
00:44:03.400 --> 00:44:06.079
And I think touching on that like we do in
749
00:44:06.079 --> 00:44:10.920
the in the Linda Perry film, it is universal, like, yes,
750
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:14.840
maybe she has a bigger house than yours or a
751
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:20.679
bigger contact network, you know list, but we're all dealing
752
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:23.280
with the same stuff, especially once she hit a certain age,
753
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:26.639
you know, as I think I mentioned, I'm already I
754
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.280
turned fifty this year and it really has caused me
755
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:31.280
to just go, holy, you know, I got to take
756
00:44:31.320 --> 00:44:34.519
stock of am I where I want to be? You know,
757
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:39.800
what is next? You know, couple that with some the
758
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:44.360
political stuff that's going on and the uncertainty surrounding our
759
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.320
world and talking with these guys from Ukraine that are
760
00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:49.320
very much the same as me, but now they're out
761
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:54.239
on a battlefield. It's yeah, it's a very uneasy time.
762
00:44:55.280 --> 00:44:58.039
So that begs the question, are you where you want
763
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:00.800
to be right now? Or do you feel like you accomplished
764
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:03.119
the things? Have you accomplished more or less? Are you
765
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:05.239
feeling like you're right where you need to be? On
766
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:09.360
a obviously that probably as an artist that shifts by
767
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:11.960
probably by the hour, we all know this works. But
768
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:13.840
you know, right now do you feel how do you
769
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:16.480
feel about where you've gotten with us?
770
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:20.039
Yeah? I feel really good about where I am and
771
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:24.559
fortunate that I've been able to tell these incredible stories
772
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:27.039
that I think if you'd asked me at nineteen years
773
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:31.760
old or something, you know, if I got to make
774
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:34.119
a movie about you know, and become friends with Sean
775
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:36.199
Penn and Linda Perry, I would have been great. And
776
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:38.760
I mean there are two people that I would have,
777
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:42.199
you know, put in a select few of like celebrities,
778
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:46.360
I would have cared about spending time with, you know.
779
00:45:46.400 --> 00:45:49.719
So I feel very fortunate with that. I think that
780
00:45:51.960 --> 00:45:55.679
what I struggle with is I used to growing up
781
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:58.719
films seem like they were forever. You know, the film
782
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:01.480
I mentioned, The Thin Blue Line, that movie you go
783
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:05.400
watch today, like all these years later, thirty thirty plus,
784
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.760
forty plus years later and it's still there. You know,
785
00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:12.039
The Godfather is still there, Chinatown. You know, whatever you
786
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:13.440
want your movie to be. And I'm not trying to
787
00:46:13.480 --> 00:46:18.639
compare my stuff to those, but it rocks. Yeah, but there,
788
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.880
and there's so many and it used to seem eternal,
789
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.320
and now film just doesn't. They come out one day,
790
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:31.880
they go on to Netflix or whatever for two weeks,
791
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:33.880
and then they're in the pile, never to be heard
792
00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:37.719
from again. And that has has just changed my feeling
793
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:42.159
about you know, maybe I cared too much about this
794
00:46:42.199 --> 00:46:44.800
when I first started I and I was looking more
795
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.440
for that legacy down the road rather than what was
796
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:51.079
right in front. But it just begs the question. I'm
797
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:54.199
sure as a musician you feel it too, Like there's albums,
798
00:46:54.239 --> 00:46:56.400
there's there's seminal in it, and you know, you want
799
00:46:56.440 --> 00:46:59.000
to create something that maybe has a chance of connecting
800
00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:03.719
people people long term and having that longevity, and I
801
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:07.280
just I don't know that that exists anymore or will
802
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:08.239
ever exist again.
803
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:11.079
Well, I think to that point, with social media in general,
804
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:13.280
I think it's become such a content world, and I
805
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:17.440
think because you constantly have to have this content, what's
806
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:21.000
here today has gone tomorrow. And that's you know, not great.
807
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:25.599
Everything feels very disposable, like art music, you know, books,
808
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:27.400
if anybody reads anymore.
809
00:47:28.840 --> 00:47:29.559
That sort of thing.
810
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:34.119
So I definitely get get that because like we put
811
00:47:34.119 --> 00:47:36.079
on a record by band High on Stress a few
812
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.760
years ago and it was it was the best one.
813
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:42.760
We've done, best results, we've gotten great feedback. And then
814
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:44.400
now it's like it's been a little while and I
815
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:46.239
kind of feel like we're out on an island again,
816
00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:49.760
because things do change and things come out so fast
817
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.880
that if you're not throwing stuff at stuff at the
818
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:55.000
wall as fast as everybody else, you kind of feel.
819
00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:56.519
Like anybody get a care on the next one.
820
00:47:56.960 --> 00:48:01.320
So you know, it is totally but it's a passion thing, right.
821
00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:03.119
You just do it because you love doing it and
822
00:48:03.119 --> 00:48:04.119
you hope it connects.
823
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:09.239
Yeah, and being you know, certainly you got to go
824
00:48:09.760 --> 00:48:13.320
in with passion and put everything into it, but not
825
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.400
be so tethered to your bit of self worth to
826
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:21.400
what happens with it after that. Hey, I love you
827
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.800
know what we've been doing with Linda, where we've done
828
00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:27.880
I don't know ten maybe ten festivals that I've gone
829
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:31.960
to seven of them with her, sharing this with people
830
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:34.519
letting her have her moment where the crowd, you know,
831
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:38.559
the standing ovation and the love is felt and feeling
832
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:40.800
you know, a part of that, like I've given her.
833
00:48:41.000 --> 00:48:45.880
I've helped her achieve this moment. That's great. But I
834
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:47.840
can't get too much wrapped up in the rest of it,
835
00:48:47.880 --> 00:48:51.599
because I have what is the best case scenario. It
836
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:57.599
comes out and on Paramount Plus and people find it
837
00:48:57.639 --> 00:48:59.880
and it has a bit of a life, and then
838
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:02.320
it'll be replaced with the next thing, you know, a
839
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:06.239
couple of weeks later, and that's great, but that is
840
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.639
your best case scenario, and you gotta be okay with that,
841
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:12.519
you know, right right? And so is that where it's
842
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:16.400
going on next to Paramount I hope. So, you know,
843
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.840
we're talking with a few different people, but I really
844
00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:23.840
do like what they're doing there. They have some compelling
845
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:28.679
docs and now that they own Showtime, you know, you
846
00:49:28.719 --> 00:49:34.159
can see this film setting perfectly alongside like the Sinne
847
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:38.320
O'Connor film, you know, Chryl Crow other titles that they have.
848
00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.199
But we're we're open, and you know, we're talking to
849
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:43.239
a lot of folks. You know, now as the year
850
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:46.639
is winding down. I don't know that we'll get something
851
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:50.480
done before the top of next year. But I hope
852
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:54.519
that whoever takes it sees what I see in it,
853
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:58.320
that this movie works on a lot of levels, and
854
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:00.920
if we can get it some we have a theatrical
855
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:05.480
run with it, then that shared experience is really meaningful.
856
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:11.760
And maybe there is an awards campaign somewhere in there
857
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:14.320
for Linda for Best Song. I would love to see
858
00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:17.840
that happen because she you know, the turns we see
859
00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:23.280
her make in the in the film are profound. In
860
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.800
the song that ends the film, I'm really really proud
861
00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:28.679
of that. It is a mic drop moment.
862
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.519
It drop, and I don't want to give too much
863
00:50:31.559 --> 00:50:33.920
away to people, but that that song was just like
864
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:37.000
holy shit, like that was that was coming from the
865
00:50:37.039 --> 00:50:39.400
depth of her soul, big time.
866
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:42.000
That was, and the fact that she thought about it
867
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:44.639
on the way down there this morning to like we're
868
00:50:44.840 --> 00:50:47.960
a recording or a rehearsal space in the deep deep
869
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:54.320
valley in la and you know that she showed up
870
00:50:54.360 --> 00:50:57.519
with that in the way that she orchestrates. Again, not
871
00:50:57.639 --> 00:51:02.519
giving too much away, but yeah, it's It's one of
872
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:07.719
those rare moments when as soon as it was over,
873
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.719
I said, that's the end of the film where you
874
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:14.079
gotta go. That's it. There's nothing else we can say here.
875
00:51:14.400 --> 00:51:18.280
It is done. So I'm really proud of that. And
876
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:21.599
you know, so much of this to me, as also
877
00:51:21.639 --> 00:51:24.280
the people you meet along the way, the experience had
878
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:28.360
along the way through all of these Because of doing
879
00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:31.119
this job, I've traveled the world. I've met people I
880
00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:36.000
never would have encountered in any other you know, realistic way.
881
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:40.360
We're not not. You know, the celebrity part is cool,
882
00:51:40.360 --> 00:51:42.000
and that's great. I got to spend a day in
883
00:51:42.039 --> 00:51:50.960
the studio with Bono. Okay, that's cool on a movie. Yeah,
884
00:51:51.239 --> 00:51:53.960
But you know, I think of that as in Uganda
885
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:58.519
many years ago and sitting having breakfast with this young
886
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:05.239
man who had been the lord's resistance army had come
887
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:07.559
into his town and they'd killed his mom and his
888
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:10.159
father and taken him and made him into a child soldier,
889
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:14.280
and then he had escaped, and anyway, it leads to
890
00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:17.000
breakfast with me, and just I think about that that
891
00:52:17.079 --> 00:52:19.199
moment often, of just sitting there next to him and
892
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:22.719
seeing the look on his face when he saw like
893
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:27.159
options for breakfast like toast with jam or peanut butter,
894
00:52:27.639 --> 00:52:30.719
you know, things that we like just totally take for granted.
895
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:35.159
But was that unique moment for him that I got
896
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:38.519
to be part of, say nothing other you know, in
897
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:42.599
haiting so many people that have profoundly changed me so.
898
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.800
Right, And I'm sure that's part of like the beauty
899
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:48.039
of this too. Sometimes you know, the final product is
900
00:52:48.079 --> 00:52:50.039
the final product. But I think as you get older,
901
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:52.679
you start to realize that the journey is you know,
902
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:56.400
just as good or better as the outcome. Right, what
903
00:52:56.480 --> 00:52:58.440
did I get to experience, Who did I get to
904
00:52:58.480 --> 00:52:58.840
talk to?
905
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:02.719
What did I learn? And yeah, I really tried to
906
00:53:02.719 --> 00:53:05.360
be better about that as it's hard, you know, if
907
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:08.599
it's it's hard because you want to, you know, get
908
00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:10.599
back to your regular life. You know, I want to
909
00:53:11.239 --> 00:53:13.440
fly in and then I want to do to my thing,
910
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:15.239
and I want to fly right back out, but maybe
911
00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:17.519
take a little extra time. When Lynda and I were
912
00:53:17.559 --> 00:53:21.880
in Minneapolis, we arrived, hopped in the car together, went
913
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:24.599
to the hotel and checked in and the pool was
914
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:27.440
strong because it was a really early morning flight, like
915
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:30.840
five am flight from here. But I like, let's go,
916
00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:35.000
let's go somewhere. And I'm like, have you ever been
917
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:37.840
to the Mall of America and it was like, I
918
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:41.000
don't know what that is. I'm like, then we're going. Yeah,
919
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:43.440
So we went and kicked around the Mall of America
920
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:47.320
for like a two hours a half. Yeah, totally did.
921
00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:49.679
She had her hat on, she was facetiming with her
922
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:53.960
daughter Rhodes, and we had a great time, you know.
923
00:53:54.079 --> 00:53:58.320
And then we went to some weird vegan restaurant and walked,
924
00:53:58.679 --> 00:53:59.960
you know, from there all the way back to the
925
00:54:00.119 --> 00:54:02.920
hotel and just what was the vegan restaurant? Do you
926
00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:10.880
remember the herbaceous butcher? Okay, yeah, it was great. It
927
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:13.199
just wasn't really a restaurant. There was nowhere to sit down.
928
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:16.599
So now we're like me and Linda Perry are hoofing
929
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:19.360
it on a forty degree to day with the wind
930
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:23.679
in our faces, eating you know, a vegan turkey sandwich.
931
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.719
That's funny. I had a funny moment, and we try
932
00:54:27.760 --> 00:54:28.559
to take those more.
933
00:54:28.920 --> 00:54:31.719
Laurie Barbero from Babes and Toyland was telling me a
934
00:54:31.760 --> 00:54:35.679
story about how she went down to a Nirvana recorded
935
00:54:36.519 --> 00:54:39.599
in Utero and Canon Falls, Minnesota, and she took them
936
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.679
up to the Mall of America. In fact that you
937
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:45.880
know the angel on the covers. Actually he bought that
938
00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:48.039
from a store in the Mall of America.
939
00:54:48.159 --> 00:54:49.039
Oh I didn't know that.
940
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:51.760
Yeah, So she took him there and you know, choosing
941
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:53.559
Babes in Toiland and she was telling me. They were
942
00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:57.400
walking around and someone walked up and I go, were
943
00:54:57.400 --> 00:54:59.800
they recognized? And they're like, She's like, no, that was
944
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:02.480
the funny part. Someone came up to me to talk
945
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.599
about Babes and Toiland while they were standing and they
946
00:55:04.599 --> 00:55:07.000
were they were just dying because nobody picked up on
947
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.719
the fact that Nirvana was standing next to her.
948
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:13.119
So that's awesome. Yeah, so you know, Mall of America
949
00:55:13.119 --> 00:55:18.000
has seen some things that is funny.
950
00:55:18.320 --> 00:55:21.400
So when you got this movie done and you thought,
951
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:22.880
did you have final cut?
952
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:23.880
Did you give it to Linda?
953
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:26.400
And Linda was kind of going, yeah, I'm not so
954
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:28.440
sure I want to move with that part of the
955
00:55:28.480 --> 00:55:29.239
story or whatever.
956
00:55:29.480 --> 00:55:32.280
She just or she just kind of bear it all.
957
00:55:32.360 --> 00:55:33.360
How did that go?
958
00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:36.239
Because that's going to be touchy too, right, because there's
959
00:55:36.320 --> 00:55:38.920
definitely a scene in there that's pretty rough.
960
00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:44.599
That's in there. No early on and honestly, the only
961
00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:47.639
way that you can get financing for something at this
962
00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:52.519
point is if you have a deal in place saying
963
00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.679
that final cut resides with the filmmakers, and I think,
964
00:55:55.719 --> 00:56:00.320
you know, the language is like meaningful consultation. There's what
965
00:56:00.360 --> 00:56:03.119
the artist will have. I'm sure there's other deals that
966
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:07.639
are different. But so that was all ironed out, and
967
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:09.559
it definitely, you know, it took them back and forth
968
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:13.159
and again steed and control and trust and all that stuff.
969
00:56:13.199 --> 00:56:16.840
So I knew that final cut resided with us, but
970
00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:21.400
I also am realistic this is her life, just like
971
00:56:21.480 --> 00:56:24.320
in the Sean Penn move, it's his life, and I
972
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:27.760
want them to be happy with it, right, And so
973
00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:32.760
with everything going back to which we talked about and
974
00:56:33.199 --> 00:56:35.760
pick of the litter, I want the folks involved in
975
00:56:35.800 --> 00:56:39.559
it to see it. And then it generally creates a
976
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:45.000
conversation where you know they will have things and you
977
00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:48.000
will have things, and you can meet somewhere in the middle.
978
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:51.440
And I feel fortunate. I hear about these other filmmakers
979
00:56:51.639 --> 00:56:55.199
just go through these huge battles with their subjects, and
980
00:56:55.519 --> 00:57:02.360
I've never had that. I would, yeah, and I hope
981
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:05.559
never to come go down that path. But you know,
982
00:57:05.639 --> 00:57:11.559
specifically with Linda, I didn't know what movie she thought.
983
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:14.000
I was making because you you sort of do all
984
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:17.159
the filming and then you go away from the squirrel
985
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:21.000
away for a while and like piece this together. And
986
00:57:21.320 --> 00:57:24.440
when we showed her the rough cut, it was nerve wracking.
987
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:27.960
It was myself and my producer Dan and then Linda
988
00:57:28.000 --> 00:57:33.360
and her best friend Aubin, And you know, she was
989
00:57:33.400 --> 00:57:36.519
so supportive afterwards, She's like, I really feel for that
990
00:57:36.719 --> 00:57:43.079
person on screen. She kind of disconnected from it a bit. Yeah,
991
00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:47.760
I would imagine that's it's your the way we protect yourself.
992
00:57:48.760 --> 00:57:51.800
But she's the most important thing is she saw value
993
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:53.800
in it. She saw value in putting it out there
994
00:57:53.840 --> 00:57:56.079
as raw as possible. He did say a couple of
995
00:57:56.119 --> 00:57:58.519
things like, god, could you get one scene where I
996
00:57:58.559 --> 00:58:04.039
look good? You know, like you know, I think you
997
00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:06.800
look good here and and you know, so we're able
998
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:10.400
to talk it all through. But yeah, it's a it's
999
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:13.800
a nerve wracking process. And I understand why why a
1000
00:58:13.880 --> 00:58:18.119
lot of people won't be as as open and transparent
1001
00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:23.480
as Linda has been. Yeah. I love that she goes
1002
00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.639
out there and is not afraid to stand in front
1003
00:58:26.639 --> 00:58:32.599
of people and receive the love. But also, you know,
1004
00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:38.480
take the take, take it somewhat in has some perspective
1005
00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:43.639
on it, and you know that that is that's the
1006
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:45.880
most you can hope for with these is that the
1007
00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.320
person everybody ends up friends at the end and sees
1008
00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:52.599
the benefit to putting out something that's open and honest
1009
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:56.039
and yeah, well just at the Parkway, like with how
1010
00:58:56.079 --> 00:58:57.480
deep this movie is.
1011
00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.679
Like the love at the end when you all came
1012
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:03.679
out and everybody was cheering in the standing ovation, I'm like,
1013
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:07.599
that probably is a giant relief when you're putting yourself out.
1014
00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:13.920
There because it is pretty raw. Nerve actually took a
1015
00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:16.760
step back and kind of sat down and embraced her
1016
00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:20.440
a bit because it was so natural that everybody stood.
1017
00:59:21.800 --> 00:59:23.880
But I think it's still really caught her off guard.
1018
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:28.199
No, that was that was legit love coming from that
1019
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:30.440
audience because it's you know, and I hope a lot
1020
00:59:30.519 --> 00:59:32.760
of people watch this because you know, like I said,
1021
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:36.599
I like Linda Perry. Fine, don't you know, I know
1022
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.239
who she is, but watching this thing just gives you
1023
00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:41.519
a new perspective on who she is as a person
1024
00:59:41.559 --> 00:59:42.679
that humanizes her.
1025
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:44.880
Just seeing her even at.
1026
00:59:44.719 --> 00:59:47.840
The Parkway, just singing those songs, like the charisma that
1027
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:52.320
comes from like, holy shit, Like she is a deep, profound,
1028
00:59:52.480 --> 00:59:55.519
talented Like I walked out of that being like, wow,
1029
00:59:55.559 --> 00:59:57.880
I've always been kind of like fine, and now I'm like,
1030
00:59:58.199 --> 01:00:02.440
I'm a fan after wat watching that, it's fantastic and
1031
01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:04.840
one of the other things that you know you're not
1032
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:09.719
going to get watching the movie. But at the Parkway
1033
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:11.760
that I thought was kind of neat and it just
1034
01:00:11.800 --> 01:00:14.199
showed a little bit more of her. Not that not
1035
01:00:14.320 --> 01:00:16.800
that you feel like there's much more that you can say,
1036
01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:19.079
open up to, but I'm like when she played those
1037
01:00:19.119 --> 01:00:21.079
songs and she did that Q and A and that
1038
01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:25.039
girl she must have been about fifteen sixteen years old,
1039
01:00:25.199 --> 01:00:28.519
stood up and said, you know, the world is shitty
1040
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.960
and I want to play music and get my feelings out.
1041
01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:34.760
And she like just how empathetic she was with that
1042
01:00:34.920 --> 01:00:38.400
person in the crowd saying get a guitar, play one note,
1043
01:00:38.559 --> 01:00:40.239
learn one note, get all that out.
1044
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:41.280
Doesn't need to be good.
1045
01:00:41.400 --> 01:00:45.000
Start there and you know, carry on from that. Was
1046
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:47.239
just like wow, that was really kind of a nice moment.
1047
01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:49.519
And then when she's doing what's going on at the
1048
01:00:49.639 --> 01:00:51.639
very end of the thing, she calls over to the
1049
01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:54.599
kid sitting over there to come up on stage, Hey, kid,
1050
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:57.199
come up here and sing, and it was like like, yeah, well,
1051
01:00:57.400 --> 01:00:58.760
no dry eyes in this house.
1052
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:03.960
No, it was a really special moment and totally not
1053
01:01:04.440 --> 01:01:09.840
planned and it's yeah, it just is. It's great when
1054
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.519
it feels like, you know, so much of everything today
1055
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:17.440
is so scripted and right, you start to go, was
1056
01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:21.880
that a real thing? Yeah? So I think those true
1057
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:26.119
moments are even more special because everything else feels kind
1058
01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:28.360
of phony. Yeah. No, it's beautiful.
1059
01:01:28.360 --> 01:01:30.840
And I'm like, that kid's gonna that kid's gonna buy
1060
01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:33.639
a guitar, like, and she's gonna be telling people for
1061
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:34.679
years what happened.
1062
01:01:34.719 --> 01:01:37.360
And it was just like what a like, what a
1063
01:01:37.440 --> 01:01:40.320
gift to give that kid, you know what I mean? Yeah,
1064
01:01:40.400 --> 01:01:42.119
and uh it just yeah.
1065
01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:43.840
I walked out of that place with a big grin
1066
01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:45.679
and my daughter just thought it was the coolest thing
1067
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:47.239
ever that she did that for that kid.
1068
01:01:47.320 --> 01:01:49.800
So that was pretty damn cool. Nice.
1069
01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:53.639
You know, we were talking about how disposal well everything
1070
01:01:53.679 --> 01:01:56.519
feels these days, and you know, you put a lot
1071
01:01:56.519 --> 01:01:58.119
of work into movies, you put a lot of work
1072
01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:00.920
into albums that it could be year, right, how long
1073
01:02:00.960 --> 01:02:02.079
does it take you to make a movie?
1074
01:02:02.119 --> 01:02:06.880
Yours? Probably I mean, it always it should go faster,
1075
01:02:07.119 --> 01:02:11.280
but uh, I think the you know, the fastest thing
1076
01:02:11.320 --> 01:02:15.199
we probably did it is about a year. But as
1077
01:02:15.239 --> 01:02:17.559
Sean Penn project was on and off for a decade
1078
01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:22.480
and Linda is about three years now. Uh And it's
1079
01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:25.039
not you know, obviously filming every day and all of that,
1080
01:02:25.119 --> 01:02:28.639
but they just take up space in your brain in
1081
01:02:28.679 --> 01:02:31.599
your heart all these years, like is this gonna is
1082
01:02:31.599 --> 01:02:34.840
this gonna hang together? Are the people that funded this
1083
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:36.880
going to really lean on me that this needs to
1084
01:02:36.920 --> 01:02:39.960
be done now? It takes a lot of a lot
1085
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:44.159
of that to get, yeah, to just stick with it,
1086
01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:49.599
because there's certainly many days when you don't want to.
1087
01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:54.159
So it's uh yeah, nothing is ever easy. You know.
1088
01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:56.440
I love the people that I mean, they're like, yeah,
1089
01:02:56.480 --> 01:02:58.679
it's pretty much all shot, you know, it's really just
1090
01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:00.239
got to sit down and edit it. So couple of
1091
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:03.599
months and then we'll go to can with it. Like, right, okay,
1092
01:03:04.400 --> 01:03:07.559
editing is very easy, right, Yeah, it's super easy. And
1093
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:09.599
I've been All of that footage that you're talking about
1094
01:03:09.719 --> 01:03:12.559
is just there and it's perfectly organized and in order,
1095
01:03:12.800 --> 01:03:15.559
perfectly Yeah, we're going to throw it into a on
1096
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.679
and Coofull. We got a movie. Yeah, wow, that's coming.
1097
01:03:19.320 --> 01:03:21.559
But you know, but what I was getting out with
1098
01:03:21.599 --> 01:03:24.599
that is, you know, I'm I'm a big I love
1099
01:03:24.679 --> 01:03:28.000
music biographies, I love music documentaries. I love music like
1100
01:03:28.079 --> 01:03:30.039
That's why I do this podcast and it's a music
1101
01:03:30.079 --> 01:03:32.440
podcast and this ties in with that. But I just
1102
01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:35.880
want you to know that with how how disposable things
1103
01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:38.800
can be, how they feel that you made one of
1104
01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:42.440
the best music documentaries I've ever seen, which I have
1105
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:46.679
seen a billion, so it will stick with me for sure.
1106
01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:49.760
And and you know, even with that Parkway thing, it's
1107
01:03:49.760 --> 01:03:51.639
going to stick with that kid, with that gift that
1108
01:03:51.719 --> 01:03:52.400
Linda gave her.
1109
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:53.800
So yeah, you.
1110
01:03:53.800 --> 01:03:56.760
Did great work and and it's going to live on
1111
01:03:56.960 --> 01:03:59.599
regardless of how long it's on streaming or not. Whoever
1112
01:03:59.679 --> 01:04:01.960
sees it, it will be walking away with it in
1113
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:05.199
their hearts, that's for sure, because one of the best
1114
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:08.159
I've seen. So I appreciate you jumping on here and
1115
01:04:08.239 --> 01:04:11.800
chatting and and good luck on your next Thank.
1116
01:04:11.679 --> 01:04:14.199
You definitely enjoyed the talk. Was it was really fun.
1117
01:04:14.559 --> 01:04:17.280
Yeah I did too, And let's definitely stay in touch,
1118
01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:30.719
Don Hardy.
1119
01:04:31.480 --> 01:04:33.360
That was a great conversation. I gotta tell you what.
1120
01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:37.199
Those are the kinds of conversations that keep this podcast going.
1121
01:04:37.880 --> 01:04:38.119
You know.
1122
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:40.320
I talk a lot in there with him about the
1123
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:43.159
movie and the unexpected.
1124
01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:45.239
Of the movie in general.
1125
01:04:45.360 --> 01:04:50.119
Like I didn't know much about Linda great great movie, didn't.
1126
01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:53.559
Know much about Don, saw some of his work online
1127
01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:55.159
and what he had been up to, and I'm like,
1128
01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:58.679
this could be a good conversation. And the Linda Perry
1129
01:04:58.679 --> 01:05:00.639
movie is fantastic. I want to tell to this guy.
1130
01:05:00.800 --> 01:05:02.480
And that was a great.
1131
01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:06.920
One, definitely in the top tier podcast interview that I've
1132
01:05:06.960 --> 01:05:09.480
had on here over the years. I really enjoyed hearing
1133
01:05:09.480 --> 01:05:14.800
about the art, the worry about legacy and how disposable
1134
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:17.639
everything seemed, you know it really And I hope you.
1135
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:19.559
All get something on this as well. I hope you
1136
01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:22.519
will see the movie. It is so good. It is
1137
01:05:22.559 --> 01:05:22.960
so good.
1138
01:05:23.000 --> 01:05:25.360
I hope it comes to streaming soon and if not,
1139
01:05:26.199 --> 01:05:29.760
if it's somewhere where you can rent it, definitely rent.
1140
01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:30.760
It's fantastic.
1141
01:05:30.880 --> 01:05:33.159
So I'd like to thank Don for being on the episode.
1142
01:05:33.400 --> 01:05:36.400
I'd like to thank Linda Perry for opening herself up
1143
01:05:36.760 --> 01:05:39.400
in that movie, because you know, it's.
1144
01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:40.639
Great, It's really great.
1145
01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:43.639
Not easy to do very courageous, so it cheers to
1146
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:46.119
the two of them. I'd like to thank you for
1147
01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:49.000
listening to the Figure eights podcast. This has been nick
1148
01:05:49.079 --> 01:05:51.960
leet It's studio twenty four Minneapolis, and we will see
1149
01:05:52.000 --> 01:05:52.599
you for.
1150
01:05:52.840 --> 01:06:00.679
The next episode. Take care, break.
1151
01:06:01.840 --> 01:06:12.840
Allus old, No, to break all its cold, No to break.
1152
01:06:17.599 --> 01:06:58.320
You better get anyway, you better give it away. That's small, though,
1153
01:06:59.400 --> 01:07:02.000
it's odd.
1154
01:07:01.800 --> 01:07:15.000
About it's more. Should say it say? It?
1155
01:07:17.960 --> 01:07:20.880
Should say it's hard about?
1156
01:07:22.480 --> 01:07:24.920
What should say.
1157
01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:28.119
It's talk about its small?
1158
01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:33.239
Could say it's talk about