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On this episode, I'm joined
by my friend David Flanagan.
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You know him as RawKode on
YouTube and around the internet.
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And we've known each other for years
in the Kubernetes and KubeCon scene.
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Uh, seeing each other at the
conference about twice a year, at
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least once a year for many years now.
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So.
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We've got together a few times and talked
in streams and just, uh, in videos about
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what's going on in Kubernetes, and he's
back to talk about a big launch of his
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that I'm very excited for us to cover
and get into the weeds because it's
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something that every team deals with
and everyone who's learning Kubernetes.
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Has to deal with and we
are gonna get into it.
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So what this is about is that the
landscape, the CNCF landscape, that's
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the thing that we all point everyone
to when they are curious about all the
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projects in the Kubernetes community.
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And we go send them off to landscape
that c ncf.org, and then they
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look at this giant list of over
a thousand open source project.
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Well, they're not all, all
open source, but mostly open
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source projects that relate.
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To Kubernetes or they provide an
additional functionality to Kubernetes
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And other cloud native technologies.
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I guess it's not just about
Kubernetes, but the challenge
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there is where's the happy pass?
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Where are the recommended stacks?
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Where's the mean stack?
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The PHP plus MySQL stack, like
there's all these, in history,
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typical stacks of usable technologies.
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I was one of those early guys that was
using node js with Mongo because they
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seemed like they both sort of rose to
fame in the early 2010s at the same time.
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I was developing a lot of backend
JavaScript apps that ran on
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Mongo and learning how to use
NoSQL in times where it was cool.
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Although now looking back, I probably
could have just stayed with Postgres.
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But the point here is that we
all struggle with this, and
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especially as you're learning, you
don't know what to learn first.
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And RawKode has created an entire website
that we will talk about through this.
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Episode on his preferred stack,
and it's not just a list.
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This app is quite in depth.
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I'm gonna call it an app because it's more
than just a display of listing projects.
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It's got commentary, it's got
spicy takes, and he breaks down
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his tech matrix solution of.
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Cloud native ecosystem.
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The way he sees it, the things you need
to evaluate, the things you need to
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skip and the things that he advocates
you check into his advocate list are
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the must have technologies, and that's.
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What we go through in detail is
each of his must haves and why.
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Maybe a little bit of his why on how
that came to the list of must-have.
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Kubernetes technologies.
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We also cover other topics like
Flux versus Argo CD, the HashiCorp
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slash IBM controversy and the
CD k deprecation of Terraform.
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content creation challenges that
we've both had because we're both
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making courses and YouTube videos
and podcasts and all that stuff.
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And he's launched all this on
his website at RawKode Academy.
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So check it out and go check out his
resources because he's making fun
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stuff and I, I really appreciate the
level of effort he's giving to the
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community in his open source work.
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Here we go.
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David, welcome to the show.
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Thanks for being here.
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no, it's an absolute pleasure to be here.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I'm excited to sit down
and talk tech with you.
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Yeah.
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we've also talked this year a little
bit about course making and the struggle
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of being a full time content creator.
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we both suffer together and not alone.
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In this content game.
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I mean,
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yeah, I'm still not sure.
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It's a good idea
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it's like the whole
DevRail paradox, right?
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Everyone thinks it's glamorous.
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You go on planes, fly business
class, stay in hotels have meals
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cocktails and just travel the world.
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But really underneath, it's a
very difficult job where you
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have to be face all of the time.
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Putting yourself into, the public
eye and social situations that don't
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come easy to a lot of developers.
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it's not easy for me.
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even doing this online being vulnerable
on YouTube your website LinkedIn and
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making content, it's so difficult.
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Yeah,
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I, don't think I'd change it for anything.
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It's, a whole lot of fun when you
get to make up the content that you
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love and enjoy and hopefully find
that others love and enjoy it too.
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the creation process, I think
is the most rewarding thing.
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you just shipped a video this morning.
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little discussion of HashiCorp and
some stuff they're doing over there, I
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haven't seen that video yet, but it's
always nice to click publish, because
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now you know it's out there and you could
take it back, but you probably won't.
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So it's only forever on the internet.
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what could go wrong?
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I very specifically and purposely
content creation life, which is now
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six or seven years, have never really
had strong opinions on my channel.
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I focus on showing people the tools and
how to be successful with these tools,
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and I very rarely say here is my opinion
on something the video I published today.
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where the title is, fuck you.
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HashiCorp dash dash dash an IBM company.
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That gives you all the context
that you need right off the bat.
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Right.
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We're
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but I, I mean, I have been
burned with this announcement,
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of the deprecation and CDK.
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So I felt it was time to make it personal
for once which again, I don't rarely do.
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So I'm very
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Yeah.
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I hope it is well received.
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Well, it'll certainly mean more when
it comes from someone who's not posting
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that kind of video daily or ever.
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Either that or it's the end
of my career, and I'll have a
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full time job by January 26.
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Who knows?
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I give a lot of opinions, but I don't
tend for them to be negative because I
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also know a lot of these people, a lot
of times I'm talking about something
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where I know someone that works there
and they're all doing hard work.
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It's just the company's overall
decisions impact things, and
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it's not individual's fault.
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So I tend to hate throwing
shade at companies in my videos.
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But yeah, sometimes
it's warranted, I think.
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I give my opinion on the sunset of
that project and what the next steps
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are for people I am angry with the
whole thing, but not at the individual
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developers who are working on Terraform
CDK, or even Terraform or anything else.
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The same with the license change, right?
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I'm not angry the people
doing the real work.
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It's the C suites and the executives
on their yachts with their billions
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who just get to sit and make decisions
that affect an entire community
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without a face in that community.
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So why should I worry
about offending them?
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It's kind of my perspective now.
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It's like, I'm sorry
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you don't have the community's best
interest at heart and I don't have yours.
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you're, talking in more detail.
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I tend to pay attention to those topics,
but there's so many companies in our
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field that it's hard for me to really
keep track of who's in the C suite, you
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know, what company's situation is like.
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I totally forgot they
were being bought by IBM
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you're right.
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Sometimes you do forget that, IBM
has swallowed up Red Hat as well.
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red Hat is an IBM company now,
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Yeah.
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and around we go.
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I think we're, especially in the AI
space, watching a lot of acquisitions
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and it's hard to keep track of
who now is part of who, but today.
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I reached out to David because we
have seen attempts before at trying
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to take the giant CNCF landscape,
hundreds and hundreds of projects.
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are we over a thousand yet?
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Like of all the things in
that landscape website?
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I'm trying to remember,
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is.
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Yeah.
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yeah.
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it's daunting for those of us that
live at full time and if you aren't
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wanting to buy a vendor's prescribed
stack They tend to have certain tools
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that they either bundle or, work with.
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So you kind of get a chosen stack there.
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A lot of us that have been teaching and
educating others have been frustrated
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since the beginning of all of this, the
number of projects continues to climb.
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I don't, there's no sign of stopping.
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And, we, occasionally see
projects deprecated or archived.
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And even if you thought you were
current a year ago or six months
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ago, you're no longer current.
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And what's possible
with all of these tools?
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And we do, I think, tend sometimes
as engineers to just have this
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like candy land approach a
little bit, where we want to,
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tuning
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oh man, this exists, so I
must check it out and go,
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support
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I might need to put this in my cluster.
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Right.
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And I think
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reach
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I'm going to guess you're one of those
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my
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that
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at
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years it's been more of
a less is more approach.
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year.
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very
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you put out your opinionated
Kubernetes stack.
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tell me about that, like the original
inset, like why did you want to
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do this in such a, detailed way?
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it was more than just a single post that
says, here's a list of tools I recommend.
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I think you and I have something in common
and, that we talk a lot, we talk to a lot
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of people, when we go to conferences where
we're in discards, whether we're on social
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media, a lot of people
value our opinions on stuff.
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as a result of that, you know, I have
a public office I always think we're
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people big time and they just want to
talk about what they should be learning.
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What's their next step in their career?
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What tools should they
be paying attention to?
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When I go to conferences, it's the same
again there It's okay, I be using Loki?
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Should I be using Meemer?
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Should I be using Cortex?
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Like what does my
observability stack looks like?
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What does my security stack look like?
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These are questions people have,
because the CNCF and the cloud
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native landscape make a lot of money.
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They attract a lot of companies who
build products that solve problems.
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there's a lot of competition.
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I used to send people to the
CNCF landscape document before
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it got to what it is now.
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But it doesn't really make
sense if you send someone to it.
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There is just boxes and boxes
and boxes of decision fatigue.
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not like you go there and you go,
oh, well how, about application
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delivery components should I use?
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Because you get presented 30 options.
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How do you make that decision of
which one is right for me and my team?
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I decided there had to be a better way.
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I realized.
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for the best part of, I think
nearly 20 years, 15 years, been
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putting out their tech radar.
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And I used to use this all the time back
in 2013 to 2015 when I was, director
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of development for a software company.
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I wanted to know they were doing the
hard work, researching, kicking the
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tires, doing all the, syncing with salt.
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Right.
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So I trusted them for that opinion, but
I realized that they're not really in
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a position to cover something that's
as broad or as specific that I want.
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And I know I use broad and specific at
the same time, but Kubernetes, Cloud
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native is broad, but it's also a niche,
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Yep.
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tech radar, like ThoughtWorks?
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And then I tried to copy it.
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Not the code, but the idea.
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And I was like, okay, here's my quadrants.
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And I was like, this has to be simpler.
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So I sat down with my good friend
Claude, and my good friend ChatGPT
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00:10:51,097
and my other friend, Gemini I
had a conversation for days.
226
00:10:51,387 -->
00:10:55,957
This, discussion was massive, it was
like, what do I care about in this space?
227
00:10:55,997 -->
00:10:57,327
What decisions am I making?
228
00:10:57,327 -->
00:10:59,917
If I were going to build a stack
tomorrow, what would that look like?
229
00:10:59,927 -->
00:11:01,087
What are the trade offs that I make?
230
00:11:01,627 -->
00:11:03,927
And eventually I got to the point where
these discussions really hit home.
231
00:11:04,807 -->
00:11:07,957
are the properties of a project
that are important to me.
232
00:11:08,807 -->
00:11:10,677
Here's why they're important to me.
233
00:11:10,697 -->
00:11:15,037
I made, a database of the things that
are important with the technologies
234
00:11:15,307 -->
00:11:16,467
and then grouped them together.
235
00:11:17,007 -->
00:11:20,727
I didn't want to deviate too much
from the CNCF landscape because
236
00:11:20,727 -->
00:11:22,257
there is a lot of information there.
237
00:11:22,567 -->
00:11:25,847
The only thing that's really
missing is that opinionated piece.
238
00:11:25,977 -->
00:11:27,547
Why should someone adopt FluxDV?
239
00:11:28,302 -->
00:11:31,142
over Argo CD that is not on the landscape?
240
00:11:31,142 -->
00:11:34,632
It will never be on the landscape
because the CNCF is Switzerland, right?
241
00:11:34,642 -->
00:11:36,782
They are there to home these projects.
242
00:11:36,782 -->
00:11:38,532
They're not there to tell
people how to do anything.
243
00:11:39,032 -->
00:11:40,322
And that was kind of the start of it.
244
00:11:40,372 -->
00:11:43,812
I called it the tech matrix because
it is a matrix and that we have,
245
00:11:43,862 -->
00:11:47,772
different criteria and groupings and
everything that we need to balance
246
00:11:47,892 -->
00:11:50,702
two projects against each other,
or two segments against each other.
247
00:11:51,332 -->
00:11:53,162
that was really the start of it.
248
00:11:53,532 -->
00:11:56,272
I was also in a very fortunate
position where the Rockwood Academy,
249
00:11:56,952 -->
00:11:59,152
you know, I've done over 400.
250
00:11:59,852 -->
00:12:03,852
300 videos now, covering a
lot of these technologies.
251
00:12:03,852 -->
00:12:06,042
I already had some of the
database just sat there in
252
00:12:06,042 -->
00:12:07,622
YAML file in a Git repository.
253
00:12:07,622 -->
00:12:09,732
I just had to enrich it
with some more information
254
00:12:10,102 -->
00:12:12,972
and then add my flavor
to each of them as well.
255
00:12:13,022 -->
00:12:16,842
And then sitting down with my good
friends, Claude, gemini and I and
256
00:12:17,062 -->
00:12:19,702
ChatGPT, I was like, here's my idea.
257
00:12:19,752 -->
00:12:25,312
Let's build it into the website
Voila, we, got the tech matrix, and
258
00:12:25,312 -->
00:12:26,772
we can go through it in more detail.
259
00:12:26,772 -->
00:12:30,982
I can talk about how some of the decisions
were made and my opinionated stack, but
260
00:12:31,222 -->
00:12:35,412
the whole point of it is I can update
this matrix whenever I want, my opinion
261
00:12:35,412 -->
00:12:40,262
changes, as new technologies come out
just give people a little bit of guidance.
262
00:12:40,652 -->
00:12:43,742
the opinions that are here should you
be paying attention to our technology.
263
00:12:43,892 -->
00:12:47,502
And I break it down into should you be
just keeping an eye on this technology?
264
00:12:47,702 -->
00:12:49,762
Should you be exploring
it and kicking the tires?
265
00:12:49,792 -->
00:12:52,722
Should you be actively learning
this because it will be a
266
00:12:52,722 -->
00:12:54,582
net positive on your career.
267
00:12:55,282 -->
00:12:59,722
Then into the more of the team dynamic,
is this safe for me to adopt with my team?
268
00:13:00,357 -->
00:13:04,467
And lastly, the advocate, do I
specifically say this is the one
269
00:13:04,497 -->
00:13:07,787
technology that everyone should be using,
and if you're not, you're doing it wrong.
270
00:13:08,147 -->
00:13:10,967
That is kind of where I went with
the matrix, right down to that.
271
00:13:11,357 -->
00:13:13,747
You need to use these tools
if you are serious about
272
00:13:13,747 -->
00:13:16,157
platform and Kubernetes in 2026.
273
00:13:16,657 -->
00:13:22,007
So would you say this is a good
resource, for someone getting started?
274
00:13:22,107 -->
00:13:25,837
is this meant for people that are
sort of, do you come at it from like
275
00:13:25,837 -->
00:13:29,867
a problem fixed perspective of like,
I'm thinking about service mesh.
276
00:13:29,907 -->
00:13:32,077
Let me see what David has
to say about service mesh.
277
00:13:32,107 -->
00:13:32,857
is it more like that
278
00:13:33,107 -->
00:13:35,517
So it's multifaceted, right?
279
00:13:35,527 -->
00:13:39,377
If you are new to cloud, native to DevOps,
to platform engineering, to observability,
280
00:13:39,377 -->
00:13:43,117
any of these things, Any of these niches
within the niche, you can go to the tech
281
00:13:43,117 -->
00:13:47,997
matrix and I will give you an opinionated
handful of technologies that you should
282
00:13:48,007 -->
00:13:49,897
be watching, exploring and learning.
283
00:13:50,337 -->
00:13:54,192
And if you stick to that, I hope you
will get enough value to make the
284
00:13:54,192 -->
00:13:57,092
next 12 months of your career come
by in six months, We're trying to
285
00:13:57,292 -->
00:13:59,172
cut down that mean time to progress.
286
00:13:59,862 -->
00:14:02,562
very difficult for someone coming
into Cloud Native to take a
287
00:14:02,562 -->
00:14:04,542
look at that landscape and know
what technologies to play with.
288
00:14:04,552 -->
00:14:07,862
Should they invest six weeks
learning flux and then go spend
289
00:14:07,862 -->
00:14:10,382
another six weeks learning Argo
and building their own opinions,
290
00:14:10,382 -->
00:14:12,322
I want to speed that up for them.
291
00:14:12,372 -->
00:14:12,642
Yeah.
292
00:14:12,804 -->
00:14:16,084
If you learn that, you learn everything
that you need to learn, and I don't want
293
00:14:16,084 -->
00:14:18,914
to say anything bad about Argo, but it's
just not a tool I'm ever going to use.
294
00:14:19,354 -->
00:14:21,394
So I'm not going to tell
other people to use it either.
295
00:14:21,684 -->
00:14:23,894
it's safe to adopt, but I
would never encourage it.
296
00:14:25,614 -->
00:14:30,414
If you are a team or you've already been
doing Kubernetes for 7 years, you still
297
00:14:30,414 -->
00:14:32,654
need to keep up to date with, the changes.
298
00:14:32,909 -->
00:14:37,449
my tech matrix is still valuable
because as technologies are announced,
299
00:14:37,459 -->
00:14:40,959
as they are released, as they are
evolving, you can just subscribe
300
00:14:40,959 -->
00:14:42,199
to a technology and get updates.
301
00:14:42,199 -->
00:14:46,209
on has it moved from my kick the
tires explorer into my learn phase?
302
00:14:46,229 -->
00:14:49,539
Have I now decided to start
adopting it and advocating it?
303
00:14:49,869 -->
00:14:52,539
you can just get the alerts for the
things that are important to you.
304
00:14:52,539 -->
00:14:54,999
You can just get alerts on get
ups if you want, or you can just
305
00:14:54,999 -->
00:14:56,709
scroll very niche into Flux cd.
306
00:14:57,059 -->
00:15:00,224
the way that you consume it is going to
be different from person to person, but it
307
00:15:00,224 -->
00:15:01,894
depends on what you want to get out of it.
308
00:15:02,324 -->
00:15:05,994
I hope that I've structured it
and composed it in the right way
309
00:15:05,994 -->
00:15:08,994
where you can just get what you
want from it without the noise.
310
00:15:09,024 -->
00:15:10,354
that is the problem of the landscape.
311
00:15:10,594 -->
00:15:13,684
It comes one way, the noisy
way, and it's very difficult to
312
00:15:13,684 -->
00:15:15,484
get the signal out sometimes.
313
00:15:15,589 -->
00:15:15,859
Alright,
314
00:15:15,943 -->
00:15:16,486
have
315
00:15:16,489 -->
00:15:17,179
definitely,
316
00:15:17,522 -->
00:15:18,607
And that's
317
00:15:18,816 -->
00:15:19,456
you're right.
318
00:15:19,456 -->
00:15:22,406
I'm now thinking about my
own use of, the landscape
319
00:15:22,406 -->
00:15:22,949
it.
320
00:15:23,056 -->
00:15:24,126
website and
321
00:15:24,862 -->
00:15:26,892
not something I send people to anymore.
322
00:15:27,043 -->
00:15:27,586
week.
323
00:15:27,772 -->
00:15:32,012
it hasn't been that way for years To
me, it feels like it's only there for
324
00:15:32,012 -->
00:15:35,852
people who are in the CNCF and are who
are aware of a lot of the projects and
325
00:15:35,852 -->
00:15:39,982
are looking for what's new, browsing
through some of the categories and
326
00:15:40,392 -->
00:15:42,262
identifying what we don't know about yet.
327
00:15:42,272 -->
00:15:46,922
But that's a far cry from
implementation or a decision on product.
328
00:15:46,932 -->
00:15:50,652
And, especially when we start talking
about platform engineering stacks,
329
00:15:51,002 -->
00:15:52,682
there's a lot of expectation in what's.
330
00:15:53,322 -->
00:15:56,152
What features exist in that stack
versus someone's just saying,
331
00:15:56,172 -->
00:15:57,722
I, need to deploy Kubernetes.
332
00:15:58,302 -->
00:16:01,992
And that there's a lot, I feel like
there's a lot more minimum decision
333
00:16:01,992 -->
00:16:06,762
amount for a platform engineering
stack, I feel like is, a much higher
334
00:16:06,762 -->
00:16:10,342
bar than I've got a working Kubernetes
cluster that's in production.
335
00:16:11,802 -->
00:16:13,742
so why don't we go through some of it.
336
00:16:13,742 -->
00:16:15,512
I'd love to, get some of your thoughts.
337
00:16:15,797 -->
00:16:19,617
we can read them on the website, but
I'd love to discuss some of them for our
338
00:16:19,627 -->
00:16:22,277
podcast audience and get some of your
339
00:16:22,628 -->
00:16:23,168
if you don't mind.
340
00:16:23,847 -->
00:16:24,157
let's do it.
341
00:16:24,268 -->
00:16:25,258
we'll do an experiment, right?
342
00:16:25,258 -->
00:16:28,728
Let's go to the, landscape, and
assume we want to decide which
343
00:16:28,728 -->
00:16:30,338
service mesh we should adopt.
344
00:16:30,648 -->
00:16:31,098
All right?
345
00:16:31,208 -->
00:16:34,278
So we come here and we're like,
okay, we're looking at projects
346
00:16:34,318 -->
00:16:35,708
and products, side by side.
347
00:16:36,588 -->
00:16:40,078
We need to find where service
mesh is, or networking,
348
00:16:40,078 -->
00:16:41,418
depending on how it's structured.
349
00:16:41,828 -->
00:16:44,138
we see we've got a service mesh
section here, so we can group in.
350
00:16:44,638 -->
00:16:47,708
Now we do see Istio and Linkerd
because they're graduated projects and
351
00:16:47,728 -->
00:16:49,768
everything else is a paid for product.
352
00:16:50,238 -->
00:16:55,368
There are no opinions here to tell you
whether you should use Istio over Linkerd.
353
00:16:56,143 -->
00:16:56,743
right now.
354
00:16:56,793 -->
00:16:59,923
STL for a start says simplify
observability traffic managed security
355
00:16:59,923 -->
00:17:01,293
policy with the STL service mesh.
356
00:17:01,703 -->
00:17:04,103
STL simplifies nothing, that is just.
357
00:17:05,023 -->
00:17:07,393
Wrong, can see how many
GitHub stars it's got.
358
00:17:07,413 -->
00:17:08,233
What does that tell me?
359
00:17:08,233 -->
00:17:09,553
Well, not really much.
360
00:17:10,233 -->
00:17:13,123
then we've got Linkerd, which is
drastically less GitHub stars,
361
00:17:13,123 -->
00:17:16,643
which I think is, an absolute train,
but it is an ultra light, ultra
362
00:17:16,643 -->
00:17:18,273
simple, ultra powerful service.
363
00:17:18,273 -->
00:17:18,493
mesh.
364
00:17:18,513 -->
00:17:19,233
I would agree with that.
365
00:17:19,873 -->
00:17:20,853
I'm a fan of Linkerd.
366
00:17:20,863 -->
00:17:22,203
I'm always going to side with Linkerd.
367
00:17:22,933 -->
00:17:24,253
then we've got all
these paid for products.
368
00:17:24,253 -->
00:17:26,113
when should I build or buy?
369
00:17:26,143 -->
00:17:29,073
When should I own my own service mesh and
when should I pay someone else to maintain
370
00:17:29,073 -->
00:17:30,943
it for me that isn't really covered.
371
00:17:31,383 -->
00:17:31,653
Yeah.
372
00:17:31,890 -->
00:17:34,750
It's valuable for a content creator,
right, where you want to come and see what
373
00:17:34,760 -->
00:17:36,600
random technology will I cover this week?
374
00:17:36,940 -->
00:17:39,220
You know, close your eyes and move
them out and see what you get.
375
00:17:39,230 -->
00:17:39,800
But from
376
00:17:40,478 -->
00:17:42,138
for joining us today.
377
00:17:42,138 -->
00:17:46,702
Please make sure to sign in and
have your registration information.
378
00:17:46,702 -->
00:17:51,585
We've got a lot to be
doing So I'm going to go
379
00:17:51,835 -->
00:17:56,325
We have all of the technologies that
I've ever covered or ever had any opinion
380
00:17:56,325 -->
00:17:58,565
on within the cloud native landscape.
381
00:17:59,535 -->
00:18:03,345
I tried to make it very obvious
what these categories are so you
382
00:18:03,345 -->
00:18:05,100
can expand how to read the matrix.
383
00:18:05,800 -->
00:18:09,450
I explain what watch, explore, and learn
are, those are the most important ones.
384
00:18:19,011 -->
00:18:35,402
right
385
00:18:35,414 -->
00:18:38,484
very easy just to come here
and get what is my stack.
386
00:18:38,514 -->
00:18:40,004
It's everything in this column.
387
00:18:40,214 -->
00:18:41,664
There's no other decisions to be made.
388
00:18:42,164 -->
00:18:48,184
The adopt is a bit broader, and that's
because I made the decision that CNCF
389
00:18:48,214 -->
00:18:53,084
graduated project, it is probably safe
for any organization, no matter how
390
00:18:53,134 -->
00:18:54,324
big or small in the world to adopt.
391
00:18:54,804 -->
00:18:58,218
I am confident that CNCF will
keep that project, active and
392
00:18:58,218 -->
00:18:59,988
maintained for as long as they can.
393
00:19:00,591 -->
00:19:04,705
I have never seen them sunset or
graveyard, any project that has ever
394
00:19:04,705 -->
00:19:07,151
been graduated, I could be wrong, but
I don't think that has ever happened.
395
00:19:07,412 -->
00:19:10,122
They put a lot more effort into trying
to save it if it got into trouble.
396
00:19:10,752 -->
00:19:11,262
I imagine.
397
00:19:11,413 -->
00:19:11,753
Well, yeah.
398
00:19:11,753 -->
00:19:13,583
Plus the conditions to graduate, right?
399
00:19:13,593 -->
00:19:15,273
You can't be a single vendor project.
400
00:19:15,323 -->
00:19:17,883
There has to be multiple people
that are actively invested in
401
00:19:17,883 -->
00:19:19,313
making that a successful project.
402
00:19:19,323 -->
00:19:21,983
So, you know, the likelihood
of one company going bankrupt.
403
00:19:22,993 -->
00:19:24,343
50 50 probably worse.
404
00:19:25,113 -->
00:19:28,473
multiple, within a single thing,
I think it should be safe.
405
00:19:28,973 -->
00:19:30,707
So where do Do you wanna
start in my graveyard?
406
00:19:30,767 -->
00:19:31,997
Do you wanna start on my watch list?
407
00:19:31,997 -->
00:19:34,967
Do you wanna start with what I'm
advocating my opinionated guide to
408
00:19:34,997 -->
00:19:36,287
platform engineering Kubernetes.
409
00:19:36,287 -->
00:19:37,457
What would you like to learn?
410
00:19:37,957 -->
00:19:38,337
Yeah.
411
00:19:38,337 -->
00:19:42,931
So, for the audio audience, I'm going to
mention the numbers at the top, the live
412
00:19:42,931 -->
00:19:47,821
totals where it says skip, watch, explore
at the very top are those your totals
413
00:19:48,321 -->
00:19:50,546
Yeah, so I mean, I
414
00:19:50,659 -->
00:19:53,119
For the audio audience, I wanted to
mention you've actually gone through
415
00:19:53,119 -->
00:19:57,416
and deselected essentially 169.
416
00:19:57,416 -->
00:19:58,002
projects,
417
00:19:58,052 -->
00:19:58,272
Yeah,
418
00:19:58,431 -->
00:20:00,541
that's 169 CNCF projects Correct.
419
00:20:01,041 -->
00:20:05,971
so in total we had 320 projects
that I have stored data on in the
420
00:20:06,031 -->
00:20:08,761
Rockwood Academy, 169 of them.
421
00:20:08,781 -->
00:20:13,230
I have put straight into Skip Technologies
that I am not, really interested in,
422
00:20:13,730 -->
00:20:17,520
doesn't mean they're not useful, doesn't
mean you can't be interested in them.
423
00:20:17,850 -->
00:20:21,220
These are personally things that I
do not give two hoots about because
424
00:20:21,220 -->
00:20:25,200
they do not fit in to my stack or
my production or anything else.
425
00:20:25,490 -->
00:20:28,480
doesn't mean they're not good, I have
already made my opinions on observability.
426
00:20:28,481 -->
00:20:30,310
Thanos is a great project.
427
00:20:30,640 -->
00:20:32,020
But I'm just not interested in that.
428
00:20:32,220 -->
00:20:37,220
So it's in Skip, we've got
Holmes, GPT, just not interested
429
00:20:37,220 -->
00:20:38,430
in bringing AI into my cluster.
430
00:20:38,460 -->
00:20:39,830
I use AI everywhere else.
431
00:20:40,120 -->
00:20:41,310
I do not want it in my cluster.
432
00:20:41,880 -->
00:20:44,500
bank Vaults, Aqua
Project, ClusterNet, Dex.
433
00:20:44,520 -->
00:20:48,700
I mean, I know some of these and some
of them are just not, if someone were to
434
00:20:48,710 -->
00:20:52,370
click on it and say Go check, oh, OpenTofu
is going to move, that's, a no brainer.
435
00:20:52,550 -->
00:20:52,750
Yeah,
436
00:20:53,047 -->
00:20:54,377
because I was always Team Terraform.
437
00:20:54,377 -->
00:20:56,927
motivations change right,
right, right, right.
438
00:20:57,613 -->
00:21:01,423
So I get to update this and people
can follow along with my Stack It
439
00:21:01,423 -->
00:21:03,023
doesn't mean anything in Skip is bad.
440
00:21:03,033 -->
00:21:04,593
It just means I haven't got around to it.
441
00:21:04,633 -->
00:21:07,463
It's not for me right now,
or I don't have a use case.
442
00:21:08,127 -->
00:21:08,507
Yeah.
443
00:21:08,773 -->
00:21:11,313
I wish I could be in a position where
I could add opinions on everything,
444
00:21:11,813 -->
00:21:13,773
but again, that is a risky game.
445
00:21:13,773 -->
00:21:15,603
This is a volatile ecosystem.
446
00:21:15,853 -->
00:21:17,723
I've always felt, for me it's
always felt like a little bit
447
00:21:17,723 -->
00:21:18,743
of like, stay in your lane.
448
00:21:18,803 -->
00:21:22,603
there's different areas where I'm
like, you can have opinions, but they
449
00:21:22,603 -->
00:21:27,768
would not be based on full production
experience and knowledge of running
450
00:21:27,768 -->
00:21:29,458
clusters long term with these products.
451
00:21:29,508 -->
00:21:32,278
I'd hate to have opinions when I
have a cursory knowledge or I've
452
00:21:32,278 -->
00:21:34,568
done a sample install in my closet.
453
00:21:34,598 -->
00:21:36,478
that's not enough for me to
feel like I have an opinion.
454
00:21:36,788 -->
00:21:38,338
You also have graveyard on the other end.
455
00:21:38,582 -->
00:21:38,792
Yeah.
456
00:21:38,792 -->
00:21:42,708
So the graveyard, is projects that
are either abandoned, so people should
457
00:21:42,708 -->
00:21:43,958
just get a warning not to use this.
458
00:21:44,028 -->
00:21:46,148
I'm going to have to add
Terraform, CDK to it today.
459
00:21:46,648 -->
00:21:48,038
or projects that have burned me.
460
00:21:48,408 -->
00:21:51,048
and I feel bad by that, but
you know, sometimes a project
461
00:21:51,158 -->
00:21:53,298
is just, shouldn't adopt it.
462
00:21:53,298 -->
00:21:58,228
And I'm just graveyarding it so people
know, SaltStack, is not a dead project,
463
00:21:58,778 -->
00:22:02,018
but it was bought by VMware then
Deprioritized and now that it's Broadcom.
464
00:22:02,933 -->
00:22:08,013
I think you would be absolutely, crazy
to adopt SaltStack in 2026, but you
465
00:22:08,122 -->
00:22:09,312
I was a fan a decade ago.
466
00:22:09,562 -->
00:22:12,792
It was, my go to over
puppet, Ansible, everything.
467
00:22:12,842 -->
00:22:15,702
I feel, very disappointed that
it's not my go to anymore.
468
00:22:16,482 -->
00:22:19,202
And I felt bad about putting
cadence here because it literally
469
00:22:19,202 -->
00:22:20,772
just got moved to the CNCF.
470
00:22:21,772 -->
00:22:26,012
that worked on cadence went to Temporal
and Cadence was deprioritized by Uber
471
00:22:26,072 -->
00:22:29,202
this was their last chance to try
and save the project by donating it.
472
00:22:29,862 -->
00:22:32,892
I just don't see anyone actively
contributing or using it.
473
00:22:32,932 -->
00:22:36,432
maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think
anyone picking that today over anything
474
00:22:36,432 -->
00:22:38,632
else, is making a very naive mistake.
475
00:22:39,382 -->
00:22:41,772
the graveyard is just there
as a, you know, make sure
476
00:22:41,772 -->
00:22:42,832
your projects aren't in it.
477
00:22:43,002 -->
00:22:47,582
And the nice thing is, you can come here,
and if we go to advanced mode, for the,
478
00:22:48,492 -->
00:22:52,102
audience, it gives you search and the
ability to group and slice and dice.
479
00:22:52,872 -->
00:22:56,142
you can just search, cadence won't
show up because it's graveyard.
480
00:22:56,392 -->
00:22:58,922
is the NGINX Kubernetes project?
481
00:22:59,422 -->
00:23:00,252
Controller
482
00:23:00,363 -->
00:23:00,883
I don't think
483
00:23:01,172 -->
00:23:01,662
in there.
484
00:23:01,813 -->
00:23:03,883
The only one I've got is Emissary on Skip.
485
00:23:03,903 -->
00:23:06,143
the ngres controller did
not make the cut, but I
486
00:23:06,143 -->
00:23:07,483
guess I should add it to graveyard.
487
00:23:07,533 -->
00:23:07,993
I was.
488
00:23:08,464 -->
00:23:10,924
I do have to try and keep
on top of this now as well.
489
00:23:10,974 -->
00:23:12,084
It's going to keep you sharp.
490
00:23:12,084 -->
00:23:13,144
It's going to keep you sharp.
491
00:23:13,644 -->
00:23:17,194
Is this a open source repo where
people can help you make corrections
492
00:23:17,194 -->
00:23:20,014
or is it, I guess this isn't really
corrections, it's more like your opinion.
493
00:23:20,014 -->
00:23:22,584
So how could other people
help you with that?
494
00:23:22,634 -->
00:23:23,284
That's a great point.
495
00:23:23,324 -->
00:23:26,444
So, we're on the GitHub repository
for the Rockwood Academy.
496
00:23:26,454 -->
00:23:28,334
There is this wonderful content folder.
497
00:23:29,159 -->
00:23:32,939
And you can go to technologies and
every technology is in here, If we just
498
00:23:32,939 -->
00:23:38,009
grab, let's use salt, we'll just pick on
salt today, you can open the MDX file.
499
00:23:38,059 -->
00:23:40,209
as you just marked it
with, a YAML front matter.
500
00:23:40,679 -->
00:23:42,829
It's very easy for anyone
to come and change this.
501
00:23:42,829 -->
00:23:46,349
If you need to update the, logo for
whatever reason, you can do that.
502
00:23:47,029 -->
00:23:49,489
we have a matrix graveyard
here, and this is where I can
503
00:23:49,489 -->
00:23:51,029
store my opinions under matrix.
504
00:23:51,389 -->
00:23:55,359
But one of the things I would love to do
sooner rather than later, like before the
505
00:23:55,359 -->
00:23:58,629
end of the year, is to just allow other
people to come and put their opinions
506
00:23:58,629 -->
00:24:02,539
here so that you can actually click on a
face and it's like, what's david stack?
507
00:24:02,549 -->
00:24:03,599
What's brett stack?
508
00:24:03,799 -->
00:24:04,559
You know, what's X
509
00:24:04,559 -->
00:24:08,419
y stack And just make
it this community driven
510
00:24:08,479 -->
00:24:09,709
Stack
511
00:24:09,913 -->
00:24:10,323
Yeah.
512
00:24:10,839 -->
00:24:14,229
tool because my opinion, is
my opinion and it's my path.
513
00:24:14,489 -->
00:24:16,439
And I hope other people find that useful.
514
00:24:17,239 -->
00:24:18,379
we should have everyone's opinion.
515
00:24:18,439 -->
00:24:20,619
Anyone who wants to contribute their
opinion should be able to do that.
516
00:24:21,309 -->
00:24:23,399
the reason I didn't launch with
that is how do we allow this
517
00:24:23,409 -->
00:24:26,319
to visualize if it grew beyond
four or five people's opinions?
518
00:24:26,669 -->
00:24:28,639
Does it start to devalue the, matrix?
519
00:24:28,858 -->
00:24:29,718
I need to work that out.
520
00:24:29,788 -->
00:24:32,983
So there's a lot of things I would
love to do, but, getting more opinions
521
00:24:32,983 -->
00:24:34,733
into it, and it is all open source.
522
00:24:34,863 -->
00:24:36,043
People can come and contribute.
523
00:24:36,143 -->
00:24:38,743
so lots of things on my mind
about how to push that forward.
524
00:24:39,160 -->
00:24:42,520
Yeah, it feels like one of those things
where you could spend 40 hours a week,
525
00:24:42,660 -->
00:24:46,760
on this, Cause I'm sitting here thinking,
yeah, you could probably make that it
526
00:24:46,760 -->
00:24:49,885
shows opinions on the project I'm like,
I'm already trying to work out your
527
00:24:49,885 -->
00:24:52,705
exact, your actual ui ux about that.
528
00:24:52,915 -->
00:24:53,995
Let's get everybody's opinion.
529
00:24:53,995 -->
00:24:54,545
Let's bring them on in.
530
00:24:54,545 -->
00:24:56,865
But, but let's not elevate
everyone's opinion.
531
00:24:57,055 -->
00:24:58,635
let's elevate certain voices.
532
00:24:58,635 -->
00:25:02,375
Maybe if they've opinionated on five
projects, they somehow get to a different
533
00:25:02,375 -->
00:25:05,045
tier there's a lot you could do with
that, we know about all these product
534
00:25:05,045 -->
00:25:06,605
review websites on the internet that suck.
535
00:25:06,605 -->
00:25:10,215
They all these, G2, there's all these
things that I find on the internet that
536
00:25:10,215 -->
00:25:13,155
are like, well, we have user opinions
and we think this is better than that.
537
00:25:13,455 -->
00:25:16,675
I might be comparing like, you
know, Excel to Google Sheets
538
00:25:16,675 -->
00:25:17,355
or something, I don't know.
539
00:25:17,785 -->
00:25:22,295
But those websites always felt
suspect to me and lacked genuine,
540
00:25:22,335 -->
00:25:23,755
like, who is saying all this?
541
00:25:24,095 -->
00:25:29,015
it does feel like a cool idea to
see opinions of different projects.
542
00:25:29,215 -->
00:25:33,725
It would be interesting to even some of
those opinions could link, is it possible
543
00:25:33,725 -->
00:25:36,625
to add other people's opinions that
they have put out publicly if someone's
544
00:25:36,625 -->
00:25:41,105
wrote a blog post about it in the past
where they've had an opinion on, like
545
00:25:41,715 -->
00:25:47,425
for me it's the classic Argo versus flux
discussion around which tool or both.
546
00:25:47,765 -->
00:25:50,735
in that case it's I'm sure there's
a lot of opinions on both sides.
547
00:25:51,400 -->
00:25:54,140
There's probably a very few amount of
people that have actually used both.
548
00:25:54,590 -->
00:25:56,510
so that would be cool to see
their opinions or to have
549
00:25:56,510 -->
00:25:58,190
links to their blog posts.
550
00:25:58,190 -->
00:26:02,260
But yeah, this is the kind of thing where
there is no end, there's no end for you.
551
00:26:02,760 -->
00:26:04,090
No, there definitely is not.
552
00:26:04,290 -->
00:26:07,120
But, find ways to bring in more opinions.
553
00:26:07,150 -->
00:26:10,200
It could even be that if you're just
on the Academy website, it pops up
554
00:26:10,200 -->
00:26:11,590
and you pick between two technologies.
555
00:26:11,740 -->
00:26:14,770
We can still collect information
that is valuable to people,
556
00:26:14,770 -->
00:26:17,200
We can still build up
community scores for stuff.
557
00:26:17,250 -->
00:26:19,690
lots of ideas and I'll push that forward.
558
00:26:20,480 -->
00:26:20,790
Yeah.
559
00:26:21,226 -->
00:26:23,786
there's 169 skips, there's
14 in the graveyard.
560
00:26:23,836 -->
00:26:26,776
So, I've been working very
explicitly 14 of these technologies.
561
00:26:26,806 -->
00:26:30,746
And then the rest of them are on
that gradient of be keeping an eye
562
00:26:30,746 -->
00:26:33,686
on this one until you should start
actively learning this technology.
563
00:26:34,186 -->
00:26:34,506
Yeah.
564
00:26:34,556 -->
00:26:38,276
for the audio audience, can we run
real quick through the advocate?
565
00:26:38,596 -->
00:26:41,896
The 14 and just list them for
the audience so they know of
566
00:26:41,896 -->
00:26:43,266
these are, the heavy hitters.
567
00:26:43,706 -->
00:26:46,506
everybody should be at least
a little curious about it.
568
00:26:46,716 -->
00:26:48,546
Is that how you're
approaching it for teams?
569
00:26:48,686 -->
00:26:50,316
It, doesn't mean they
have to implement it.
570
00:26:50,326 -->
00:26:53,996
It's not like a foundational technology
that they would always, you're not
571
00:26:53,996 -->
00:26:57,206
saying this is required, you're
just saying I'm a huge fan of this.
572
00:26:57,476 -->
00:26:58,396
I'm a huge fan.
573
00:26:58,426 -->
00:27:02,316
I would never build a production
platform without, these tools.
574
00:27:02,316 -->
00:27:02,896
This is what
575
00:27:03,010 -->
00:27:03,460
Oh, okay.
576
00:27:03,535 -->
00:27:06,406
for joining us today.
577
00:27:06,406 -->
00:27:13,585
we hope you have a great rest of your day.
578
00:27:13,585 -->
00:27:17,174
We'll see you next time.
579
00:27:17,174 -->
00:27:18,610
Take care.
580
00:27:18,791 -->
00:27:19,921
you need a common format.
581
00:27:19,921 -->
00:27:21,691
And cloud events is just so simple.
582
00:27:21,691 -->
00:27:22,471
It's just a spec.
583
00:27:22,481 -->
00:27:24,701
They have implementations
for serialization across
584
00:27:24,711 -->
00:27:25,881
all different languages.
585
00:27:26,301 -->
00:27:30,121
if you have any sort of semantic
data that travels over a network just
586
00:27:30,121 -->
00:27:31,621
wrap it in a cloud events envelope.
587
00:27:31,661 -->
00:27:32,651
It doesn't matter who you are.
588
00:27:32,851 -->
00:27:35,831
everyone should have it in their
NPM, go dependencies, REST, Cargos,
589
00:27:37,161 -->
00:27:39,931
It's one of those understated,
underutilized technologies that
590
00:27:39,931 -->
00:27:43,681
saves a lot of downtime, bugs,
regressions, So yeah, amazing project.
591
00:27:44,551 -->
00:27:46,521
I'm a huge fan of CUE.
592
00:27:46,591 -->
00:27:49,461
I literally just published a
video on it two days ago for,
593
00:27:49,761 -->
00:27:51,131
making GitHub Actions easier.
594
00:27:51,461 -->
00:27:54,041
I use CUE across my entire monorepository.
595
00:27:54,411 -->
00:27:57,861
I even released a tool called QNV,
QENV, whatever you want to call it.
596
00:27:58,301 -->
00:28:03,941
last week to replace my, disparate
tools of Justfiles, Bazels, CI
597
00:28:03,951 -->
00:28:06,251
CD pipelines, Dart env, configs.
598
00:28:06,271 -->
00:28:08,111
All of it is now solved by one tool.
599
00:28:08,451 -->
00:28:09,111
powered by CUE.
600
00:28:09,221 -->
00:28:09,771
very, very cool.
601
00:28:10,570 -->
00:28:15,927
Hello, and welcome back to the
DockerCon Monthly Dev Session.
602
00:28:15,927 -->
00:28:23,427
My name is Matt Granitz and I'm the
Chief Editor of DockerCon, I'm joined
603
00:28:23,427 -->
00:28:31,463
by Matt from Github, and Matt has been
really helping us out on this project.
604
00:28:31,463 -->
00:28:33,070
How are you?
605
00:28:33,070 -->
00:28:35,213
I am doing well.
606
00:28:35,213 -->
00:28:35,645
I'm
607
00:28:35,695 -->
00:28:38,655
The Zanzibar paper came out of
Google, nearly a decade ago.
608
00:28:38,985 -->
00:28:40,685
SpiceDB is an implementation of that.
609
00:28:40,695 -->
00:28:43,705
It will simplify your life if you
have permissions across the board.
610
00:28:44,525 -->
00:28:45,855
don't reinvent the wheel here.
611
00:28:45,855 -->
00:28:47,055
Use the tools that are out there.
612
00:28:47,555 -->
00:28:51,270
I never have SSH on any machines,
so teleport is always right there.
613
00:28:51,300 -->
00:28:52,500
I use Teleport for clustered.
614
00:28:52,510 -->
00:28:55,080
I have done since 2019 when
we did the first episode.
615
00:28:55,486 -->
00:28:59,736
again, you run a small binary
on every machine and cluster on
616
00:28:59,746 -->
00:29:02,396
databases and it commoditizes access.
617
00:29:02,715 -->
00:29:03,815
Yeah, I'm a fan of Teleport.
618
00:29:03,886 -->
00:29:04,826
need to get a logo there.
619
00:29:04,906 -->
00:29:05,196
Yeah,
620
00:29:05,577 -->
00:29:06,747
I need to get the logo in for that.
621
00:29:06,757 -->
00:29:09,847
Maybe someone on the teleport team will
contribute that to the repository for me.
622
00:29:09,847 -->
00:29:10,576
They,
623
00:29:11,357 -->
00:29:12,607
also gave away Yeti cups.
624
00:29:12,607 -->
00:29:17,167
So, you know, they got the swagger
in their swag a little bit.
625
00:29:17,257 -->
00:29:20,977
by the way, for those listening,
we've done cloud events, Q Flux
626
00:29:20,977 -->
00:29:26,972
cd, spice db, teleport, and you're
breaking these out into areas you
627
00:29:26,972 -->
00:29:30,172
mentioned that the, first three are
in app definition and development
628
00:29:30,612 -->
00:29:31,406
rest
629
00:29:32,133 -->
00:29:34,553
SPICE db, teleport, we've got
a few more to get through.
630
00:29:34,863 -->
00:29:38,643
are any of these, it sounds like
these are all technologies that
631
00:29:38,643 -->
00:29:39,913
aren't necessarily competitive.
632
00:29:40,213 -->
00:29:43,783
So when you recommend or advocate
for something, are you picking
633
00:29:43,783 -->
00:29:47,303
what you consider your favorite
or your winner in a category?
634
00:29:47,303 -->
00:29:48,263
Or would you
635
00:29:48,295 -->
00:29:49,607
see
636
00:29:49,763 -->
00:29:52,453
there's two good service
meshes or whatever?
637
00:29:53,262 -->
00:29:54,022
I'm, trying, again.
638
00:29:54,022 -->
00:29:55,282
I'm trying not to be swissolent.
639
00:29:55,302 -->
00:29:57,632
like there are more than two
good service meshes, but there's
640
00:29:57,632 -->
00:29:59,372
only one I would adopt and that's
641
00:29:59,372 -->
00:29:59,662
the
642
00:29:59,901 -->
00:30:00,181
Okay.
643
00:30:00,362 -->
00:30:01,212
I'll have under advocate.
644
00:30:01,232 -->
00:30:01,982
I wouldn't have two there.
645
00:30:01,982 -->
00:30:06,842
and funnily enough, we're now
into where Linkerd pops up, right?
646
00:30:06,882 -->
00:30:08,212
Like that is my service mesh.
647
00:30:08,212 -->
00:30:08,882
I use it everywhere.
648
00:30:09,957 -->
00:30:14,017
it's simple enough that I don't
need to overcomplicate the setup.
649
00:30:14,417 -->
00:30:17,237
It does what I want it to do, again,
without too much configuration.
650
00:30:17,237 -->
00:30:18,307
It works by default.
651
00:30:18,567 -->
00:30:21,877
It's lightweight, it's got a proxy
written in rust, like it ticks all the
652
00:30:21,877 -->
00:30:23,627
boxes on the Dave Book of technology.
653
00:30:23,927 -->
00:30:25,767
Like when I say, would I use this?
654
00:30:26,007 -->
00:30:26,927
It's got all the ticks.
655
00:30:27,337 -->
00:30:28,657
doesn't mean STO is not great.
656
00:30:28,697 -->
00:30:31,087
Everyone uses STO successfully
in the enterprise.
657
00:30:31,127 -->
00:30:32,377
Lots of banks use STO.
658
00:30:33,197 -->
00:30:35,827
they have requirements that lean them
more towards it over something like
659
00:30:35,867 -->
00:30:39,257
Linkerd, but to me, Linkerd is just
where we should be service mesh wise.
660
00:30:39,687 -->
00:30:44,007
And it's that balance of power,
defaults and, doing the right
661
00:30:44,007 -->
00:30:45,307
thing, like it's really important.
662
00:30:46,127 -->
00:30:47,367
Obviously Kubernetes is here.
663
00:30:47,457 -->
00:30:50,187
I've been advocating for
Kubernetes since, day one.
664
00:30:50,317 -->
00:30:51,647
Will that be replaced at some point.
665
00:30:51,972 -->
00:30:52,852
Yeah, probably.
666
00:30:52,902 -->
00:30:54,092
But that day is not today.
667
00:30:54,592 -->
00:30:56,342
These categories, by the
way, are from the landscape.
668
00:30:56,362 -->
00:30:57,742
I didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
669
00:30:57,801 -->
00:30:58,151
okay.
670
00:30:58,482 -->
00:31:01,892
my own categorization of software,
which we can take a look at, but the
671
00:31:01,892 -->
00:31:05,702
landscape is, I'm, trying to make
the landscape simpler, but again, I
672
00:31:05,712 -->
00:31:12,042
haven't deviated too far from, that, we
then have cilium and EBPF, is my CNI.
673
00:31:12,082 -->
00:31:16,382
I discourage people using any other
CNI because I feel like you're
674
00:31:16,382 -->
00:31:17,762
just throwing out too much power.
675
00:31:18,137 -->
00:31:19,907
EBPF is phenomenal.
676
00:31:19,977 -->
00:31:21,337
XDP is phenomenal.
677
00:31:21,417 -->
00:31:24,607
Hubble, who does not want Hubble in
their cluster, you're just missing
678
00:31:24,607 -->
00:31:30,797
out on so much and making your life
easy EBPF, while not a product or a
679
00:31:30,797 -->
00:31:34,087
project that one can just adopt as
something that solves the problem.
680
00:31:34,357 -->
00:31:35,027
You have to learn it.
681
00:31:35,027 -->
00:31:36,047
It's like a programming language.
682
00:31:36,727 -->
00:31:37,957
I do advocate for EBPF.
683
00:31:38,067 -->
00:31:40,757
It's a superpower to anyone that's
willing to invest the time to learn it.
684
00:31:41,712 -->
00:31:43,052
then we get down to observability.
685
00:31:43,112 -->
00:31:43,892
My stack is FluentBit.
686
00:31:44,192 -->
00:31:45,002
I love FluentBit.
687
00:31:45,062 -->
00:31:45,632
It's lightweight.
688
00:31:45,642 -->
00:31:46,012
It's written.
689
00:31:46,012 -->
00:31:47,112
C it's fantastic.
690
00:31:47,132 -->
00:31:48,692
Just use it if it works.
691
00:31:48,982 -->
00:31:50,762
There are times where
you can't use FluentBit.
692
00:31:51,402 -->
00:31:52,122
use FluentD.
693
00:31:53,032 -->
00:31:55,642
but FluentBit now I think has
enough parity that you're probably
694
00:31:55,642 -->
00:31:56,932
safer using FluentBit anyway.
695
00:31:57,411 -->
00:31:58,821
I've used it for a long time.
696
00:31:59,321 -->
00:31:59,721
right on you
697
00:31:59,850 -->
00:32:00,900
FluentBit, I've, yeah.
698
00:32:00,900 -->
00:32:03,910
I felt like when it started getting
traction, I thought, well, I'm, going
699
00:32:03,910 -->
00:32:05,680
to switch from FluentD, so, yeah.
700
00:32:06,180 -->
00:32:07,850
Because who wants something
written in Ruby when they can
701
00:32:07,850 -->
00:32:08,940
have something written in C
702
00:32:09,050 -->
00:32:09,550
Yes.
703
00:32:09,631 -->
00:32:11,391
Grafana needs no introduction.
704
00:32:11,481 -->
00:32:13,301
Everyone probably has
Grafana on their stack.
705
00:32:13,541 -->
00:32:17,311
OpenTelemetry is like CloudEvents,
it is now the universal language
706
00:32:17,321 -->
00:32:20,371
for metrics, logs, traces, and
anything that comes in the future.
707
00:32:20,371 -->
00:32:22,341
So just adopt it and simplify your life.
708
00:32:22,841 -->
00:32:26,821
The last two are Spin
and WebAssembly and WASI.
709
00:32:26,821 -->
00:32:28,911
I've been a big advocate
of WebAssembly for a while.
710
00:32:28,911 -->
00:32:30,011
I do think it is the future.
711
00:32:31,001 -->
00:32:33,561
we're not quite there yet, but I
will advocate the hell out of them
712
00:32:33,561 -->
00:32:36,651
any opportunity I get because the
developer experience of building
713
00:32:36,681 -->
00:32:41,531
applications that way is second to
none It is absolutely wonderful.
714
00:32:42,031 -->
00:32:45,201
rust, I struggled with not
putting this in advocate.
715
00:32:45,321 -->
00:32:48,521
I put it in learn because I do feel,
it's not that I should be telling
716
00:32:48,521 -->
00:32:52,881
people to put rust in their production,
but everyone should learn rust.
717
00:32:53,241 -->
00:32:55,231
It will teach you to
be a better developer.
718
00:32:55,531 -->
00:32:59,001
This is just broken down
into a Trello board, Kanban.
719
00:32:59,111 -->
00:33:00,961
you come along and pick the ones you want.
720
00:33:01,601 -->
00:33:04,071
if you want advanced mode, you
can say, show me one of these.
721
00:33:04,121 -->
00:33:06,491
I can just say, I only want to see.
722
00:33:06,991 -->
00:33:08,031
What should I be learning?
723
00:33:08,091 -->
00:33:11,351
you get this learn column, and these
are all the technologies that I think
724
00:33:11,351 -->
00:33:14,491
will make you a better engineer,
developer, and operator if you spend
725
00:33:14,491 -->
00:33:18,681
some time and invest in learning
them dagger for one as we click on
726
00:33:18,681 -->
00:33:18,771
it.
727
00:33:18,785 -->
00:33:21,620
Yeah, that's a good list for me.
728
00:33:21,640 -->
00:33:24,780
because my students one of
the most common questions.
729
00:33:25,660 -->
00:33:30,020
We get in our Discord server, we get
people in there every day joining
730
00:33:30,020 -->
00:33:33,640
through the, discord discovery
when, they let us be in discovery.
731
00:33:33,680 -->
00:33:35,980
because we get kicked out often
because of activity issues.
732
00:33:36,119 -->
00:33:36,569
the IoT
733
00:33:36,680 -->
00:33:38,660
we go into discovery, we get a
bunch of people and they're like,
734
00:33:38,660 -->
00:33:40,550
onboarding is, low or whatever.
735
00:33:40,550 -->
00:33:41,570
We're going to kick you out of discovery.
736
00:33:41,570 -->
00:33:43,450
and then they're like, you meet
the requirements for discovery.
737
00:33:43,556 -->
00:33:43,781
Project.
738
00:33:43,840 -->
00:33:47,450
But anyway, the people
show up and I would say
739
00:33:47,609 -->
00:33:47,834
an
740
00:33:47,990 -->
00:33:48,810
I need a bot.
741
00:33:48,820 -->
00:33:53,460
So when you say I'm learning DevOps,
I have bots that send you a whole
742
00:33:53,460 -->
00:33:57,420
bunch of links in a dm. I, never set
it up, but I need to do that because
743
00:33:57,470 -->
00:34:01,350
there's a lot of people, especially
in India, coming into tech and wanting
744
00:34:01,350 -->
00:34:05,300
to go directly to DevOps activities
or platform engineering activities,
745
00:34:05,720 -->
00:34:09,280
either at the beginning of their career
or very early in their career, you and
746
00:34:09,280 -->
00:34:10,630
I have been doing this a long time.
747
00:34:10,740 -->
00:34:15,080
these those terminology, those
concepts of the job role specifically
748
00:34:15,080 -->
00:34:19,800
for that existed 15 years ago, but
it's not the same as it is now.
749
00:34:20,090 -->
00:34:23,280
And the, what we call, what we think
of when we think you have a DevOps
750
00:34:23,290 -->
00:34:25,880
role or a platform engineering role
today are different than they were.
751
00:34:26,340 -->
00:34:29,230
And certainly the technology list is
completely different than 15 years ago.
752
00:34:29,700 -->
00:34:35,060
there's very few places that are,
I think, good opinionated paths.
753
00:34:35,320 -->
00:34:39,830
of course we've got roadmaps sh or
roadmap sh and they do a lot of good
754
00:34:39,830 -->
00:34:43,950
work there, but even their simple
version of the learning path can be
755
00:34:43,950 -->
00:34:46,420
quite intimidating, for new people.
756
00:34:46,790 -->
00:34:50,240
these are the core foundations
for your overall IT learning.
757
00:34:50,740 -->
00:34:54,760
When we get into platform engineering
or caring about clustering technologies.
758
00:34:55,260 -->
00:35:00,840
There's nothing I can point people
to until today that says, okay,
759
00:35:00,880 -->
00:35:02,210
I know there's a lot going on.
760
00:35:02,210 -->
00:35:03,620
yes, you need to go learn Kubernetes.
761
00:35:04,260 -->
00:35:06,900
But people often ask me about
what CNI, they should learn.
762
00:35:07,330 -->
00:35:11,340
They often ask, about which logging
or monitoring tool they might learn.
763
00:35:11,900 -->
00:35:14,460
I think those are maybe some
of the most common ones.
764
00:35:14,680 -->
00:35:17,310
The Flux versus Argo
conversation comes up a lot.
765
00:35:17,340 -->
00:35:20,170
I'm an Argo fan, but it's mostly
because that's what I've used.
766
00:35:20,210 -->
00:35:24,860
I've used Flux very few times and it was
definitely before the last major version.
767
00:35:24,870 -->
00:35:25,910
It was years ago.
768
00:35:25,950 -->
00:35:29,350
So I don't even feel like I can have a
strong opinion on one versus the other.
769
00:35:29,350 -->
00:35:30,330
I just know what I like.
770
00:35:30,980 -->
00:35:36,330
So for the, is that kind of what
your audience this learning part?
771
00:35:37,080 -->
00:35:40,730
I need a short link to send people
to the learning path because that's
772
00:35:40,740 -->
00:35:44,440
something that we could put into our
Discord server for people to find quickly
773
00:35:44,450 -->
00:35:45,810
for what they need to check up on.
774
00:35:46,280 -->
00:35:49,860
I guess if they're brand new to all this,
they start with the advocate stuff, right?
775
00:35:50,670 -->
00:35:52,950
I guess that's the challenge here
where do you meet your people?
776
00:35:53,450 -->
00:35:55,120
you've given me an idea for.
777
00:35:55,810 -->
00:35:58,100
How to frame the start of the matrix.
778
00:35:58,130 -->
00:36:00,630
I mean, there should be
a, button, Why am I here?
779
00:36:00,660 -->
00:36:01,170
I want to know
780
00:36:01,379 -->
00:36:01,849
Hmm.
781
00:36:02,040 -->
00:36:03,900
I want to know what
technologies are on the horizon.
782
00:36:03,940 -->
00:36:07,130
I want to know what I put into production,
and I want to know what your stack is.
783
00:36:07,220 -->
00:36:09,490
Those, are the different questions
that I'm trying to answer.
784
00:36:10,550 -->
00:36:13,380
Just because these are my
opinions and this, is my stack.
785
00:36:13,430 -->
00:36:13,760
Yeah.
786
00:36:13,831 -->
00:36:18,191
you will actually get my blurb of
why I use this over the other tool.
787
00:36:18,201 -->
00:36:21,811
I do try to explain why FluxCD is
the tool that I use for GitOps.
788
00:36:22,721 -->
00:36:25,991
to make it a bit more fun, I've added a
spicy take to everything that I advocate.
789
00:36:26,491 -->
00:36:30,161
I don't know if this applies to you as an
Argo user, but since you did say you use
790
00:36:30,161 -->
00:36:34,461
Argo, you're getting the spicy take, and
for the audio audience, I'll read it out,
791
00:36:34,461 -->
00:36:40,441
Yeah,
792
00:36:40,578 -->
00:36:44,408
Flux CD is the grown up option, and most
teams don't realize it because they're
793
00:36:44,408 -->
00:36:46,008
busy clicking around their dashboard.
794
00:36:46,718 -->
00:36:51,778
sorry if I've offended you there at
the same time, but I, do Argo CD won
795
00:36:51,848 -->
00:36:57,523
the GitOps wars because it had that UI
made the delivery of your image updates
796
00:36:57,533 -->
00:37:00,053
very visual and people loved that.
797
00:37:00,353 -->
00:37:00,643
I'm,
798
00:37:00,654 -->
00:37:01,104
see
799
00:37:01,353 -->
00:37:02,063
I am one of those people.
800
00:37:02,294 -->
00:37:02,824
of flux.
801
00:37:03,354 -->
00:37:04,544
I mean, yeah, you're not offending me.
802
00:37:04,564 -->
00:37:07,134
And it's a great
conversation to have because,
803
00:37:07,550 -->
00:37:09,225
We hope
804
00:37:09,604 -->
00:37:11,964
that's stuck with me for years is that
805
00:37:12,540 -->
00:37:14,270
I talk to teams that use both,
806
00:37:14,769 -->
00:37:15,606
time.
807
00:37:15,690 -->
00:37:20,210
that they use Flux to manage
the systems and they use Argo to
808
00:37:20,210 -->
00:37:22,600
show the dashboard to the devs.
809
00:37:23,260 -->
00:37:27,000
I've never implemented
both, at the same time.
810
00:37:27,720 -->
00:37:32,530
But with Argo, I make the
dashboard read only so a lot of the
811
00:37:32,530 -->
00:37:37,170
functionality is, just, you can't use
it because it creates bad behavior.
812
00:37:37,290 -->
00:37:38,030
It's click ops.
813
00:37:38,370 -->
00:37:43,730
And yet I still love the, I love
giving developers a way to see into my
814
00:37:43,730 -->
00:37:48,300
clusters Giving them a regular dashboard
that would show a list of pods that
815
00:37:48,300 -->
00:37:52,430
they maybe aren't, they're maybe more
concerned of, Hey, did the thing that
816
00:37:52,470 -->
00:37:56,190
the job, that run, finish and is my app
actually being served on the website?
817
00:37:56,190 -->
00:37:58,640
that was a common thing with a
couple of projects and they needed
818
00:37:58,640 -->
00:37:59,620
something to tell them that.
819
00:37:59,630 -->
00:38:03,540
And I was like, well, we got this
dashboard with Argo, I'll give it to you.
820
00:38:03,910 -->
00:38:06,720
So I started giving it read only, and
then I got a lot of success with people.
821
00:38:06,720 -->
00:38:11,730
So really my own path to liking
Argo was through trying it first.
822
00:38:11,740 -->
00:38:15,120
Even though I was hoping at the beginning
I was like, well, flux seems cooler.
823
00:38:15,120 -->
00:38:16,700
I'd like, I think I like this approach.
824
00:38:17,190 -->
00:38:21,580
But you're right, I think the web
project, the web ui originally it was
825
00:38:21,590 -->
00:38:25,720
shelved or it was a third party thing,
but it wasn't well kept or something.
826
00:38:25,720 -->
00:38:28,230
I can't remember the
origin of the UI part.
827
00:38:28,366 -->
00:38:28,596
Yeah,
828
00:38:28,700 -->
00:38:29,800
I just remembered it wasn't,
829
00:38:29,996 -->
00:38:30,466
one,
830
00:38:30,670 -->
00:38:31,130
yeah.
831
00:38:31,186 -->
00:38:36,196
the Weaveworks, enterprise one, was
available for people that did that.
832
00:38:37,491 -->
00:38:40,341
it was really difficult to get that
web UI for Flux back in the day,
833
00:38:40,361 -->
00:38:43,861
but now you're spoilt for choice
because our purpose built Web UIs I
834
00:38:43,861 -->
00:38:45,711
know the Gimlet team, shipped one.
835
00:38:46,061 -->
00:38:49,271
But not only that, headlamp has first
class support for Flux CD as well.
836
00:38:49,271 -->
00:38:50,611
if you really want it, it's there.
837
00:38:51,031 -->
00:38:53,941
But I'm of the opinion that, you have
to trust your GitOps pipeline and
838
00:38:53,951 -->
00:38:55,181
you don't really need to watch it.
839
00:38:55,521 -->
00:38:56,631
I tend not to have one.
840
00:38:56,736 -->
00:39:00,786
when, you have two great projects,
or at least two popular projects, I,
841
00:39:00,796 -->
00:39:04,146
sympathize with people because they
feel like they have to go super deep
842
00:39:04,166 -->
00:39:06,036
in order to make an educated choice.
843
00:39:06,356 -->
00:39:08,686
And who's got the time
to do that a dozen times.
844
00:39:08,686 -->
00:39:12,036
So that's exactly what you just stated
earlier about why you created this people
845
00:39:12,036 -->
00:39:16,006
shouldn't have to spend six months to
a year making decisions about the basic
846
00:39:16,006 -->
00:39:17,576
technologies that go in their stack.
847
00:39:18,056 -->
00:39:20,556
like you said earlier,
these are plumbing to us.
848
00:39:20,916 -->
00:39:25,086
They are, essential components
of a modern IT stack.
849
00:39:25,526 -->
00:39:28,866
And you need a lot of the things
you mentioned, We didn't really go
850
00:39:28,886 -->
00:39:30,736
deep into logging or monitoring.
851
00:39:31,176 -->
00:39:34,776
I think you did say Grafana, but you
didn't talk about Loki versus others.
852
00:39:34,776 -->
00:39:37,526
And, I don't know if I saw
Prometheus on the list,
853
00:39:37,536 -->
00:39:40,886
I wouldn't say that I specifically
always run one or the other.
854
00:39:41,146 -->
00:39:43,776
when it comes to observability,
I tend to use a SAS product
855
00:39:43,806 -->
00:39:45,086
rather than run on my own.
856
00:39:46,236 -->
00:39:50,191
because I'm happy to, I'm happy to
pay the price there want more sleep
857
00:39:50,251 -->
00:39:53,766
and I'm a team of one, so I don't,
really need to make that trade off.
858
00:39:54,466 -->
00:39:57,346
If I were back in a company tomorrow
and responsible for a production
859
00:39:57,346 -->
00:40:00,866
cluster, I'd probably be running Lokey.
860
00:40:01,086 -->
00:40:04,861
I think it's such an amazing piece of
software and I'd probably running meur
861
00:40:05,221 -->
00:40:06,931
because I know Grafana are gonna back that
862
00:40:07,030 -->
00:40:18,823
Yeah.
863
00:40:26,403 -->
00:40:29,033
Because InfluxDB have done
three major rewrites in.
864
00:40:29,733 -->
00:40:30,373
Six years.
865
00:40:30,373 -->
00:40:33,573
that's a scary prospect for
people putting it into a critical
866
00:40:33,573 -->
00:40:34,573
part of their infrastructure.
867
00:40:34,573 -->
00:40:36,943
I'm willing to take that risk
because I'm a big fan of InfluxDB.
868
00:40:36,943 -->
00:40:38,863
I used to work there, which
is also why I'm a fan of it.
869
00:40:39,458 -->
00:40:42,238
but I'd struggle to put it
in Advocate when's Influx 4
870
00:40:42,268 -->
00:40:43,258
going to be written in Zig?
871
00:40:43,278 -->
00:40:44,578
is that going to come
out in two years time?
872
00:40:44,598 -->
00:40:45,838
I don't think they would ever do that.
873
00:40:45,878 -->
00:40:49,978
I, think they have found the vision
that Paul Dex, the founder had.
874
00:40:49,978 -->
00:40:54,708
I think he's now there and it's a safe
bet now, but would I bet my career on it?
875
00:40:54,758 -->
00:40:55,258
I don't know.
876
00:40:55,758 -->
00:40:58,298
So, to wrap this up because
we could talk for hours.
877
00:40:58,378 -->
00:41:00,308
what are some key takeaways?
878
00:41:00,348 -->
00:41:04,458
Do you have any key takeaways
for people this is for both new
879
00:41:04,458 -->
00:41:06,248
people and experienced engineers.
880
00:41:06,258 -->
00:41:09,638
If they're wanting to learn, if they're
looking for what they should learn next,
881
00:41:09,638 -->
00:41:11,338
this will help them, I guess with that.
882
00:41:11,838 -->
00:41:12,258
With that,
883
00:41:12,288 -->
00:41:15,468
if you go to advanced mode and filter
for what's important to you, If you're
884
00:41:15,468 -->
00:41:18,758
looking for application delivery and
want to know what to watch, learn,
885
00:41:18,758 -->
00:41:22,688
explore and adopt, it's all right
there, plain black and white with my
886
00:41:22,708 -->
00:41:24,368
feedback on as much things as I can.
887
00:41:24,528 -->
00:41:26,198
And do you know my goal?
888
00:41:26,503 -->
00:41:29,913
Is to add 10 pieces of feedback
to each project, or at least
889
00:41:29,923 -->
00:41:31,513
every day, add 10 more pieces.
890
00:41:31,753 -->
00:41:33,773
this is the V1 of the tech matrix.
891
00:41:34,382 -->
00:41:34,742
yeah.
892
00:41:34,792 -->
00:41:35,782
on major developments.
893
00:41:36,192 -->
00:41:40,382
I, will do that as, things change
a usability point right now.
894
00:41:41,327 -->
00:41:42,267
feedback is great.
895
00:41:42,277 -->
00:41:46,577
Please hit out on socials if something
isn't right or I can make your life
896
00:41:46,607 -->
00:41:48,577
easier or give you more opinions on stuff.
897
00:41:48,627 -->
00:41:51,047
those questions that go to
your discord, send them my way.
898
00:41:51,397 -->
00:41:52,827
I'll update the matrix to include that.
899
00:41:53,327 -->
00:41:56,297
but yeah, know it's not going
to help for people that are,
900
00:41:56,767 -->
00:41:58,647
listening, but use the advanced mode.
901
00:41:58,677 -->
00:42:01,887
That's my one piece of advice to anyone,
no matter what journey you're at, go
902
00:42:01,887 -->
00:42:06,207
to pipeline stage and just clear it
and select the one that makes sense.
903
00:42:06,677 -->
00:42:10,147
if you just want to know what is
cool and upcoming, the watch pile,
904
00:42:10,157 -->
00:42:12,117
there's 35 pieces of technology there.
905
00:42:12,822 -->
00:42:17,732
Daytona is gaining a lot of ground
in ai, and development environments.
906
00:42:17,992 -->
00:42:19,372
Start kicking the tires on that.
907
00:42:20,262 -->
00:42:21,892
we've got Dalec with a
908
00:42:21,980 -->
00:42:28,518
much for joining us today, Bye.
909
00:42:28,524 -->
00:42:31,474
confirm that it's worth watching,
but I am still keeping an eye on it.
910
00:42:32,634 -->
00:42:36,574
if we progress from watch to explore,
things that are safer bets might
911
00:42:36,574 -->
00:42:37,954
be right for you and it may not be.
912
00:42:37,954 -->
00:42:39,124
It just depends what you're trying to do.
913
00:42:39,134 -->
00:42:41,044
One that I think is
really cool is Perseus.
914
00:42:41,045 -->
00:42:43,484
This is like the Grafana replacement.
915
00:42:43,484 -->
00:42:46,254
It's an amazing project,
but it's so early.
916
00:42:46,344 -->
00:42:52,104
and it's not really got that multi
vendor contributions yet, They show me
917
00:42:52,104 -->
00:42:53,834
that it's going to have that longevity.
918
00:42:54,314 -->
00:42:55,624
So I think it's amazing.
919
00:42:55,664 -->
00:42:58,814
I hope they do amazing things and
keep going, but it's very much
920
00:42:58,814 -->
00:43:00,084
in that explorer phase right now.
921
00:43:00,134 -->
00:43:01,764
I can't encourage people
to go and learn it.
922
00:43:02,504 -->
00:43:05,554
another amazing project is Kairos
from the Spectral Cloud team.
923
00:43:06,054 -->
00:43:10,884
this allows you to take any Linux
operating system and make it an immutable.
924
00:43:11,284 -->
00:43:15,134
Cloud native Kubernetes running machine,
It's such a cool project and then of
925
00:43:15,134 -->
00:43:19,034
course if you ditch the explore and
learn, these are technologies that I
926
00:43:19,074 -->
00:43:21,224
think will pay dividends on your career,
927
00:43:21,284 -->
00:43:24,744
So that question of, I'm new
to DevOps and I want to learn.
928
00:43:25,369 -->
00:43:28,779
I hope I could guarantee that if you
pick anything on this list, it'll
929
00:43:28,779 -->
00:43:30,359
be a net positive on your career.
930
00:43:30,369 -->
00:43:34,059
Flatcar is an amazing piece of technology
that I think if you learn it and
931
00:43:34,079 -->
00:43:35,879
learn how to use it, great things.
932
00:43:36,209 -->
00:43:37,139
Same with Knative.
933
00:43:37,169 -->
00:43:39,929
If you want serverless on Kubernetes,
there's probably no better choice
934
00:43:39,979 -->
00:43:46,304
than, the Knative Project And Dagger,
an up and coming CICD pipeline,
935
00:43:46,584 -->
00:43:50,094
that is all as code and TypeScript
and all of that really good stuff.
936
00:43:50,964 -->
00:43:52,624
This isn't just new shiny tech.
937
00:43:53,064 -->
00:43:55,894
Has anyone ever lost their
job from learning Postgres?
938
00:43:56,669 -->
00:44:00,889
No chance, everybody
should learn Postgres.
939
00:44:00,909 -->
00:44:02,649
it's going to make you a better DBA.
940
00:44:02,649 -->
00:44:04,099
It's going to make you
design better schemas.
941
00:44:04,109 -->
00:44:06,879
It's going to make you think about
indices and optimizations and
942
00:44:06,879 -->
00:44:08,319
performance at the database layer.
943
00:44:08,609 -->
00:44:11,649
You can even go down a rabbit hole of
learning P-L-S-Q-L, and that will still
944
00:44:11,649 -->
00:44:13,649
pay you dividends later on in your career.
945
00:44:13,999 -->
00:44:14,399
The way.
946
00:44:14,450 -->
00:44:14,950
of software.
947
00:44:15,143 -->
00:44:17,563
I love that you're like, I, still
have the, 'cause I love that.
948
00:44:17,773 -->
00:44:19,743
you also have the Kubernetes
project listed there, which I
949
00:44:19,743 -->
00:44:21,383
think is, an assumed, an assumed.
950
00:44:21,383 -->
00:44:21,723
Yes.
951
00:44:21,870 -->
00:44:21,880
I?
952
00:44:22,133 -->
00:44:24,993
I want to do a little plug
for my friend Aaron Francis.
953
00:44:24,993 -->
00:44:29,373
He just launched a Postgres
course called Mastering Postgres.
954
00:44:29,853 -->
00:44:33,463
he has built a bunch of database
courses at databaseschool.
955
00:44:33,493 -->
00:44:33,923
com.
956
00:44:34,313 -->
00:44:36,343
That's an unpaid ad for my friend Aaron.
957
00:44:36,343 -->
00:44:40,233
He's a wonderful guy and, he's
making really good content
958
00:44:40,243 -->
00:44:42,223
and he's making me jealous.
959
00:44:42,253 -->
00:44:46,423
because he rented an apartment,
built a whole studio in it, put an
960
00:44:46,433 -->
00:44:50,533
actual blackboard in there, like a,
teacher's classroom and is killing
961
00:44:50,533 -->
00:44:51,713
it in the content game right now.
962
00:44:51,713 -->
00:44:52,037
think,
963
00:44:52,121 -->
00:44:53,861
courses with a lot of technical
964
00:44:54,062 -->
00:44:54,386
little
965
00:44:54,531 -->
00:44:55,221
deep insight.
966
00:44:55,261 -->
00:44:56,011
I, feel like the same way.
967
00:44:56,041 -->
00:44:56,365
actually
968
00:44:56,396 -->
00:44:56,916
it's like.
969
00:44:57,013 -->
00:44:57,337
the
970
00:44:57,446 -->
00:44:58,116
To me,
971
00:44:58,308 -->
00:44:58,956
you need
972
00:44:59,001 -->
00:45:02,301
networking, getting a Cisco
cert early in my career, in the
973
00:45:02,301 -->
00:45:04,781
nineties, was pivotal foundational.
974
00:45:04,821 -->
00:45:06,311
I still use that knowledge every day.
975
00:45:06,453 -->
00:45:07,100
of that
976
00:45:07,151 -->
00:45:11,251
I don't necessarily have to break down
my, subnets into binary a whole lot
977
00:45:11,251 -->
00:45:16,821
anymore, but understanding that stuff
has always helped me in every level
978
00:45:16,831 -->
00:45:18,711
above that in the technology stack.
979
00:45:18,711 -->
00:45:23,211
And that's to me, like TCP IP is one
of those things that it's almost feels
980
00:45:23,211 -->
00:45:27,511
like people learn last now because the
cloud just sort of glosses over it.
981
00:45:27,851 -->
00:45:29,351
But databases are the same thing.
982
00:45:29,351 -->
00:45:33,011
you and I could probably walk
into a typical cloud native shop
983
00:45:33,021 -->
00:45:36,981
of a small team that's maybe in a
little startup I'm presuming that
984
00:45:36,981 -->
00:45:38,461
you've never been a full time DBA.
985
00:45:38,691 -->
00:45:42,411
I would never have called myself that,
but I've managed lots of databases over
986
00:45:42,411 -->
00:45:44,531
the years and I bet you I could still.
987
00:45:44,719 -->
00:45:45,575
see
988
00:45:45,651 -->
00:45:48,601
after I first ranted about
indexes, I could probably still
989
00:45:48,601 -->
00:45:51,051
walk into a team today and they're
having performance problems.
990
00:45:51,051 -->
00:45:52,521
And I'm like, yeah,
you're not doing indexes.
991
00:45:52,531 -->
00:45:53,571
let's do some indexing.
992
00:45:54,011 -->
00:45:57,121
to me that's like a foundational
understanding of that anyone
993
00:45:57,121 -->
00:45:57,971
should have a database.
994
00:45:57,971 -->
00:46:01,961
It's Like even if you're just a, DevOps
engineer a full time ops engineer running
995
00:46:01,961 -->
00:46:04,341
Kubernetes clusters, like, you should
probably understand the basics of how
996
00:46:04,341 -->
00:46:09,641
SQL works and how SQL databases have
logs and how they flush some of these
997
00:46:09,691 -->
00:46:14,706
sort of basic technologies that we
can't avoid even if you outsource it.
998
00:46:15,126 -->
00:46:17,686
So it's cool that you had that stuff
in there because that's key stuff too.
999
00:46:17,686 -->
00:46:21,156
I mean, it's like you're, you're getting
right on the edge of almost being.
1000
00:46:21,946 -->
00:46:23,326
it's you're the cloud native stack.
1001
00:46:23,326 -->
00:46:27,796
So I go to DevOps sh for my, which
programming language should I
1002
00:46:27,796 -->
00:46:31,786
learn for DevOps, which, you know,
it's got the typical Ansible,
1003
00:46:31,786 -->
00:46:34,596
Terraform, blah, blah, blah, Docker,
Kubernetes, learn all these things.
1004
00:46:34,656 -->
00:46:37,166
learn a cloud, get a
cert in DevOps somewhere.
1005
00:46:37,266 -->
00:46:42,316
And then now it's like, okay, now you
need to be actually productive and make
1006
00:46:42,316 -->
00:46:45,316
decisions on how you're going to run
your web servers and your databases.
1007
00:46:45,716 -->
00:46:49,116
And that's maybe where the cloud native,
like we jump over to David's website
1008
00:46:49,116 -->
00:46:50,726
and that's where it starts off with.
1009
00:46:50,746 -->
00:46:52,836
And I feel like there's
a continuity there.
1010
00:46:52,836 -->
00:46:53,476
We could sell that.
1011
00:46:53,976 -->
00:46:57,316
I hope there is value to
everyone who is trying to learn.
1012
00:46:57,356 -->
00:46:58,316
the learning doesn't stop.
1013
00:46:58,316 -->
00:47:00,906
This isn't people, you know, when I
say people trying to learn, it's not
1014
00:47:00,906 -->
00:47:02,776
people that have got 10 days experience.
1015
00:47:03,046 -->
00:47:05,901
You know, even people that have been
doing this for 20 years, like us.
1016
00:47:05,951 -->
00:47:08,681
is there ever a day or a week that
goes by where you're not learning?
1017
00:47:09,181 -->
00:47:10,961
and the Postgres thing, right?
1018
00:47:11,311 -->
00:47:13,661
what you were just talking about
indexes and all of that, You've
1019
00:47:13,661 -->
00:47:14,751
got to get the basics right.
1020
00:47:14,761 -->
00:47:17,271
You've got to master the
basics 10, 000 times.
1021
00:47:17,561 -->
00:47:20,541
like the old, I can't remember his name.
1022
00:47:21,356 -->
00:47:22,806
The martial artist that died
1023
00:47:22,806 -->
00:47:23,094
Bruce
1024
00:47:23,377 -->
00:47:23,857
Bruce Lee.
1025
00:47:24,124 -->
00:47:27,294
he said he didn't fear someone who
practiced 10, 000 kicks one time.
1026
00:47:27,484 -->
00:47:30,454
He feared a person who practiced
one kick 10, 000 times it's true in
1027
00:47:30,454 -->
00:47:34,054
development and engineering, you've
got to get those basics down and then
1028
00:47:34,064 -->
00:47:35,143
that gives you the, ability to do it.
1029
00:47:35,604 -->
00:47:38,284
the freedom to go and explore
all these other technologies.
1030
00:47:38,284 -->
00:47:40,724
The T shaped developer is
a very important paradigm.
1031
00:47:41,114 -->
00:47:43,114
that changes when we bring AI into it.
1032
00:47:43,124 -->
00:47:44,494
is my matrix already useless?
1033
00:47:44,514 -->
00:47:46,284
Because people can just sit
down with Gemini and say,
1034
00:47:46,694 -->
00:47:47,994
what should I learn this week?
1035
00:47:47,994 -->
00:47:48,824
It's like, I don't know.
1036
00:47:48,894 -->
00:47:54,424
But I still think there's a lot of value
and, you know, the human touch and our
1037
00:47:54,424 -->
00:47:56,654
opinions and sharing that with people.
1038
00:47:56,684 -->
00:47:59,324
And this is my way to try and
ease that burden for people.
1039
00:47:59,824 -->
00:48:00,194
Nice.
1040
00:48:00,524 -->
00:48:01,974
Well, thanks for creating this yet.
1041
00:48:02,174 -->
00:48:07,194
Another thing for the community, I feel
like your list is ever growing of, of
1042
00:48:07,214 -->
00:48:13,094
things you've, you're giving away in terms
of content and advice and edutainment,
1043
00:48:13,144 -->
00:48:14,834
which I also have used that word before.
1044
00:48:14,834 -->
00:48:17,614
So that's good that you think that, 'cause
I think that is key is a lot of this
1045
00:48:17,614 -->
00:48:21,444
stuff can, can be dry and dull and we've
already got that in a thousand conference
1046
00:48:21,444 -->
00:48:24,044
talks every, well, every three months now.
1047
00:48:24,464 -->
00:48:26,554
I guess it was definitely more
than a few thousand a year of
1048
00:48:26,564 -->
00:48:28,364
conference talks on YouTube.
1049
00:48:28,374 -->
00:48:31,634
So we don't need more
technical content necessarily.
1050
00:48:31,634 -->
00:48:33,894
We need something that's a
little better, higher produced.
1051
00:48:33,914 -->
00:48:37,194
And you are one of those gentlemen
that I. I like to watch your videos.
1052
00:48:37,194 -->
00:48:39,984
I watched your cue video,
from a couple of days ago.
1053
00:48:40,024 -->
00:48:41,164
last night actually, I think I,
1054
00:48:41,410 -->
00:48:41,800
So,
1055
00:48:41,854 -->
00:48:42,504
up in my feed.
1056
00:48:42,554 -->
00:48:42,944
be
1057
00:48:43,095 -->
00:48:46,560
you're somehow YouTube knows
that if it talks about cloud
1058
00:48:46,570 -->
00:48:47,890
native, it needs to show up
1059
00:48:48,202 -->
00:48:48,593
later.
1060
00:48:48,650 -->
00:48:50,580
next to late night comedy
and stand up comedy.
1061
00:48:50,580 -->
00:48:52,460
Like those are my three things on YouTube.
1062
00:48:52,730 -->
00:48:54,150
They're all nice and mixed together.
1063
00:48:54,290 -->
00:48:59,810
Oh, and, EVs, anything ev and it throws
you and Victor Farsik and some other,
1064
00:48:59,840 -->
00:49:02,000
Sid and some other good YouTubers.
1065
00:49:02,030 -->
00:49:03,450
it throws them all in there in the mix.
1066
00:49:03,671 -->
00:49:04,371
great content.
1067
00:49:04,471 -->
00:49:04,881
Yeah.
1068
00:49:05,371 -->
00:49:09,491
So thanks for doing this and I'm looking
forward to getting this podcast out.
1069
00:49:09,521 -->
00:49:13,481
And you can find more of this at, rawcode.
1070
00:49:13,491 -->
00:49:16,301
Academy and all the links are
gonna be in the show notes.
1071
00:49:16,591 -->
00:49:17,851
David, where can people find you?
1072
00:49:17,851 -->
00:49:19,461
I know you've also got a Discord server.
1073
00:49:19,611 -->
00:49:21,741
do you want to tell the people
where they can find you at?
1074
00:49:22,241 -->
00:49:22,571
Yeah.
1075
00:49:22,621 -->
00:49:25,051
you can go to Discord, GG slash rawcode.
1076
00:49:25,051 -->
00:49:30,001
I'll go to Discord server, I am
rawcode on every reputable social site.
1077
00:49:30,871 -->
00:49:33,291
and, you know, even know what's there.
1078
00:49:34,021 -->
00:49:34,121
the.
1079
00:49:34,121 -->
00:49:35,051
way the world is right now.
1080
00:49:35,051 -->
00:49:37,821
I find myself on LinkedIn a whole
lot more, which I never thought would
1081
00:49:37,821 -->
00:49:41,551
happen, but I am active on LinkedIn
sharing my opinions there too.
1082
00:49:41,551 -->
00:49:43,321
So I try to be everywhere.
1083
00:49:43,411 -->
00:49:45,681
and I'm always happy to
sit down with people.
1084
00:49:45,681 -->
00:49:47,801
I have a very public office hours link.
1085
00:49:47,851 -->
00:49:49,541
I'll make sure Bret has
that for the show notes too.
1086
00:49:49,541 -->
00:49:51,671
if you ever just want 20 minutes
to sit down and talk tech,
1087
00:49:52,471 -->
00:49:53,561
it's there for the community.
1088
00:49:53,631 -->
00:49:54,401
I have nothing but time.
1089
00:49:55,140 -->
00:49:55,890
Yeah, that's great.
1090
00:49:55,900 -->
00:49:56,490
That's perfect.
1091
00:49:56,860 -->
00:50:01,960
this is the exact DM I sent to a group
of, cloud native friends recently.
1092
00:50:02,230 -->
00:50:03,010
Random thought.
1093
00:50:03,260 -->
00:50:06,510
I get more value from scrolling
LinkedIn than any other platform.
1094
00:50:07,010 -->
00:50:08,430
I actually enjoy it.
1095
00:50:08,620 -->
00:50:11,090
I think 90% percent of
what I see is good quality.
1096
00:50:11,220 -->
00:50:13,130
What a strange world we live in.
1097
00:50:13,630 -->
00:50:16,430
Oh, never thought I
would see the day either.
1098
00:50:16,430 -->
00:50:17,220
And here I am.
1099
00:50:17,240 -->
00:50:21,270
I'm not only consuming LinkedIn,
I'm now posting to LinkedIn,
1100
00:50:21,640 -->
00:50:23,000
which is a very new thing for me.
1101
00:50:23,030 -->
00:50:27,900
But I do think it's given people a voice
and I want more voices in the community.
1102
00:50:27,900 -->
00:50:29,810
I want to get more opinions,
more feedback, all of that.
1103
00:50:29,850 -->
00:50:31,550
And it is one of the
better places right now.
1104
00:50:31,650 -->
00:50:32,090
Definitely.
1105
00:50:32,894 -->
00:50:35,234
yeah, Low, drama, high quality.
1106
00:50:35,234 -->
00:50:36,184
that's at least my feed.
1107
00:50:36,184 -->
00:50:37,634
I'm very lucky in there,
at least right now.
1108
00:50:38,044 -->
00:50:41,514
I, didn't do a lot of work to get
it there, so I assume that that's, a
1109
00:50:41,514 -->
00:50:43,294
experience that others might have in tech.
1110
00:50:43,664 -->
00:50:44,744
I know Blue sky is a thing.
1111
00:50:44,744 -->
00:50:48,024
I'm a big fan of Blue Sky, but,
the community at least the cloud
1112
00:50:48,034 -->
00:50:50,464
native community, And the, the
container and cloud community
1113
00:50:50,464 -->
00:50:53,024
feels more active on LinkedIn than
on, BlueSky, at least currently.
1114
00:50:53,434 -->
00:50:55,484
thanks for being here and I'm
sure we'll do this again and
1115
00:50:55,484 -->
00:50:56,194
see each other at KubeCon,
1116
00:50:56,624 -->
00:50:59,912
bye.
1117
00:51:00,185 -->
00:51:01,575
You can sign up for my newsletter at bret.
1118
00:51:01,755 -->
00:51:05,195
News to get this and more
cloud native content.
