Mikulas: Welcome back to another Consulting Rainmakers episode. today I'm sitting down with Paul Walsh, the managing director of commercial services at Enola Consulting. Paul, it's great to have you here today.
Paul Walsh: Thank you so much. Great to be here.
Mikulas: So for people that don't know Paul, who is Paul and what does he do?
Paul Walsh: That's a good question. I mean, so yeah, I'm Paul Walsh. I'm managing director of Anola Consulting. it's a family-owned business. we've been running since two thousand and ten, officially, off the back of the Equality Act in the UK. and the business has gone through a number of different transitions. so My story is I've my dad is the CEO and the co-founder of the business and I've always kind of been around this conversation for a long time, but didn't actually start working in the business until the last six years. So I've been kind of doing a number of different things. I've started off as a I guess like most young boys growing up in England wanted to be a footballer. that was always my dream to be a a professional athlete. and so I really focused on that and got quite far and Got to a semi professional level, trialed at some professional teams, but didn't quite make it. But I always, I guess I was smart enough to have a backup and do something alongside that in case it didn't work out. So I studied and went to university, went down that route as well. and then once I realized I wasn't gonna make it as a professional footballer, I thought I'd better do something else and have a career because I need to earn money. so I went into customer services and I was working in that field for about 10 years. I think it's always I've always been closely connected to the work that we do at Enola. I think I've always had the desire to want to help people and to see people succeed and that that closely links with the work that we do with Anola. So I think it's always kind of been embedded in me and maybe it's psychologically or unconsciously sorry my father's influence coming through so I did that for a number of years and worked at a number of different firms. worked up my way up to being manager of a various support teams and then in 2016 I was made redundant for my role and then at that time my girlfriend who is Brazilian suggested that we move to Brazil. I took the l the the the jump thinking that it was gonna be just a couple of months, see what I what it's like, if I like it or not. And then yeah, ten years later still here. love it, living here with kids,
Mikulas: Yeah.
Paul Walsh: two kids, two young kids, one three and one one years old. and yeah, working for Enola Consulting. I guess that came around during COVID. I think when COVID happened, there was a big shift in the it's 'cause it it aligned with the George Floyd incident in the US. and that really was kind of the turning point for Enola, because a lot of clients moved towards our side of work, which is working around diversity and inclusion and how do we make those inclusive environments to ensure that your people thrive. And so our our work kind of took off as a result of that. And my dad was always in the background saying, Come and work with us, come and work with us, come and work with us and that was the moment it kind of just aligned for me to do that. So I joined during COVID or just before COVID. and then yeah. Since then we've kind of moved through the business and worked in marketing and now working in working as a facilitator and now working in the as the D of of the sales, sales team. So it's been a it's been a long journey to get me here, but yeah. But kind of seen all s all
Mikulas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Paul Walsh: elements of the business.
Mikulas: Awesome. And can you share more on what you do? because you you you said before we started recording that you are you record webinars.
Paul Walsh: Yeah, so yeah, so I I g kinda do a bit of everything. My role is commercial services, so director of commercial services. So okay, so the day to day role is always looking at how do we keep the pipeline full. always looking at c j generating new business, getting more business from existing customers, but also building our engagement, our awareness, our social presence. So, we have a podcast, we do webinars, it's it's basically our biggest sales funnel. So every two weeks I run a webinar talking about our At the moment we've got one which is based around the capability issues that managers face because that's a big issue we're seeing with clients at the moment. There seems to be a bottleneck in terms of what the expectation of managers are, but they don't have the necessarily the tools to be able to deliver what they're expected to do. so we've got a solution that can solve that because we're seeing a lot of issues that managers are having, especially in the in the modern world of AI, you're just expected to do more and more with less and less time and less and less skill set to do that. So our recent webinar is about that and that's runs every two weeks. We've also I'm in charge of the social media team. So our social media team, we've got we're on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, so yeah, we've quite varied in terms of our presence online. so yeah, those are the kind of areas I look after. But day to day bread and butter is the good old pipeline, make sure that's full, make sure that we've always got new business coming in.
Mikulas: Mm-hmm. And so for because my podcast is very consulting B2B firms related, and
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: I own I basically only invite consulting firm owners
Paul Walsh: Yeah.
Mikulas: and managing partners. What kind of advice could you give around you know managing pipeline and the marketing efforts that you've seen work?
Paul Walsh: Yeah. It's a good question. I think I think I probably learnt over the last I think more more recently, I was always so focused on getting new business. That was the thing for me was like new business, new business. And it's very hard for a an organization like ourselves. We're not the biggest. We have about thirteen full time staff. I would say we're probably tier two if you talk about the level or the sizes of the consultancy firms out there. So we're obviously not one of the big tier ones, but we are quite close to the top of tier two. And for us it's the biggest issue we have is nobody knows who we are. So that's the problem that you've always struggling with is trying to generate that engagement and interest. So I was so focused on we need to get new business, we need to get new business, but you end up I've found that you sometimes end up going down a rabbit hole, spending so much time and energy trying to generate new business, where the chances are that your next client is probably someone you already know in your n in your network, somebody in your contact book that you have either worked with previously or they're aware of you and they are kind of just waiting to do some more work with you. So my focus has shifted in the last three months on how do we really warm up The context that we have at the moment. So those people who already know us, how do we focus on generating more work from those people rather than trying to get cold, brand new, brand new leads? and that seems to be working well for us because it's a lot, it's a much easier conversation to have with someone who already knows who you are. and as well, we have a lot
Mikulas: Hm, for sure.
Paul Walsh: of, I would say maybe eighty percent of our work comes through referrals. So we're fortunate enough to have the industry that we work in is quite small. So you'll have people that move around from job to job quite often, maybe twelve months, eighteen months in post. And we are very fortunate to have the experience where they take us with them. So they like the work that we do. We've done a great job. And when they leave their position, they call us up when they get to the new place and say, We need you to come here and help us and do what we did at the last job. So that's we're very fortunate to have that. And I think that's down to the fact that obviously we do our job well and we're trusted by our our clients that they want to take us to do to do the same things in their new role. so yeah, but I think the main thing I'm seeing is focus on focus closer to home rather than trying to spread out and do do too much with the with the new business.
Mikulas: Hmm. Paulo, who would you say you can help the best in terms of if you look at kind of the client portfolio, what
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: are the you know common patterns that you see that show you that this will be a successful engagement?
Paul Walsh: Yeah. I think we tend to our work is very much we're we're all about how do you create the conditions in order for your people to thrive. That's that's the basic principle that we look at when we engage with a client. Because a lot of the times we'll have a conversation where someone says to us they need X training. So it could be they need unconscious bias training, for example. but we would then say, Okay, so why do you think you need that? What is the solution that you're trying to resolve and why do you think this is the answer to that solution? And once you have that discussion with them, you kind of realize, actually it's not that, it's this, or it's this and that. So then you get to the the crux of what they actually need. so our work is quite agnostic in terms of the the industry that we work with, because anybody that has that needs the the performance of their individuals in the organization needs our work because it's all about creating those conditions to be able to make your people thrive. And then if they're feeling safe and they're feeling thrive. they can thrive, they will stay and they'll perform at their best. And that's all we we're interested in in doing. But I think over what we've seen over the last few, I'd say 18 months or so, is that there's a lot of a lot of our clients tend to be in the tech and media space. So that seems to be what we're seeing a lot in media entertainment, tech. We're getting a lot of those. also those that are very committed to doing the work because Training isn't gonna change a one training session isn't gonna make the difference. You need to be committed to the journey because it's all about it's not a one and done. We can't spend three hours with somebody and then they've got an inclusive environment. That's not gonna work. so it's really about that's just the beginning of of doing it. It's kind of scratching the surface. But if you've got that commitment to an organization that really wants to make the change, that's gonna be all the that make all the difference because it is a it's an ongoing journey. So we really like to partner with those clients who are committed to making that, taking that next step and really invested in doing the work because it's yeah, it's not a one and done. So I think that that commitment is is really, really important. and also I think open mindedness as well. Because I think
Mikulas: Mm.
Paul Walsh: when our our work it what first thing I would say we don't do training because it can be seen as I will come in and tell you do this, do that, say this, don't say that. That's not gonna work as well because it's you know you're you're dealing with professionals, super intelligent people, very competent people that know what they're doing. They don't want somebody coming in for three hours and telling them to say and what not to say. That's not going to make any difference. It's all about changing your mindset. And that's that's the that's sort of the focus is on. So I think open-mindedness is important as well because if you don't have someone who's willing to collaborate or cooperate, it's not going to go anywhere. So I think that as well, because when we do have those clients that are open minded, they realize, this isn't what I expected it was going to be. No someone's talking at me for three hours pointing a finger and telling me I'm a bad person. No, it's not that. This is actually gonna make me think differently about how I treat my individuals in my in my team, the employees, and how I can actually make this their situation better in order to perform better and that's gonna help the organisation generate more money, which is the bottom line of organizations. So I think those are I'd probably say the main three things that we we look for.
Mikulas: Hmm. Yeah, it's it's very interesting because you know I think consulting it has kind of a bad a lot of people
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: think it's it's it's it's how should I say it?
Paul Walsh: Easy to do.
Mikulas: Yes, it's very easy to do and that you will just walk in and give them some kind of templated you know sales training or something, but it's much more you know tailored to the specific person
Paul Walsh: So much more.
Mikulas: because you need to what would you say are like some of the most frequent things that you see people doing wrong in organizations?
Paul Walsh: I think with our land work in particular, I think the thing that we see a lot, and this is no this is no slight on anybody. I think it's just the way that because organizations are not full of bad people. They're full of people with no poor time poor. so there's not people running around saying, how can I exclude this person? It's not about that. It's just they don't have the time to do it. So if you don't have the time you just you're just not consciously thinking about how to do these things because you've got so many other things going on. so I think for me, what we see a lot is there's a lot of tick boxing. It's I'm doing this because I just it's just into just do this and it's it's it's it's gonna make me look good, but I'm not actually interested in the outcome of this. So for example, creating an inclusive environment, are we gonna do inclusive leadership training? Is one of the things that we get asked a lot. And I think Organizations, we see a lot of organizations that just do it because they think they have to do it, say, Okay, yeah, we've done that now, so we're inclusive, that's all good, we can go back to our day job now. It's over. and that's I'd say is the biggest issue because it's not a one and done. That's just that's not gonna change anything. and also in in some cases it can be worse because you're you're creating mixed messages to say, we're doing this, we're investing in this, but we're not really we don't really care about it. So we're gonna just spend some money on it and look like we are interested. But in three months time, two weeks' time even, we go back to the way we were before and it's all forgotten. so that's probably what I'd say is the the biggest mistake that we see is that just doing it because they think it's the right thing to do or because they see other people are doing it, competitors are doing it, and they think they have to do the same thing. rather than actually understanding the importance of it and doing it because they know what the impact it will have on their individuals and actually believing in the work. so I think that's probably the biggest issue that we see, I'd say.
Mikulas: Hmm. How do you approach AI? Because it's it seems that it's a very discussed topic in all industries.
Paul Walsh: Yeah.
Mikulas: how d where does it fit in consulting if if it does?
Paul Walsh: it does for sure because it's not going anywhere, right? So we we're gonna have to learn how to work with it and live with it. And one of the things that we do is how can we use it of in our terms internally, we how do we how can we use it to be to make ourselves more efficient? because it it will it's more about process for us rather than output. So if we can automate a process, we will do that internally. if it'll make it our jobs easier, but we would never use it for creating a workshop, for example, because that's the whole point of it is you're dealing with human interaction, human context. So it has to be unique, authentic, original, that's created content. So we always all of our IP is created authentically. my my dad who is the CEO actually is the is the brain child behind it. He creates all of our IP kind of the ideas and then we we build on that. so that's all completely authentic. But in terms of the the other processes in the background, the operational processes, we use it in that way. I think organizations are most that we've s we deal with, there is a lot of pressure about AI because it's you've got to use it. So it's like, how do we use it? And I think people just end up using it or relying on it too much. and also it can create a lot of can create a lot of issues in terms of biases as well because is made by human, right? So the the rules and and the the design of it is by human. So if somebody is creating a the ru the rules but that person has bias because we all have bias, then the all it's gonna do is replicate the bias at a faster rate, a bigger scale. So it's not it yes, it's efficient, it's quick, but it's still gonna have the issues that human would have. It just does it on a much bigger scale. So I think that's something we have to be con worried about. Or not worried, but we have to be aware and alive to because I think It's great having AI and it's very efficient and it's super quick, but I think we still need to mi be mindful about taking it as gospel because I think there are things that need to be checked. 'Cause I I I see that all the time. People don't even check AI anymore. It's just they'll just send it directly without even looking at it. and it's not, you know, it's not read or double
Mikulas: Yeah, yeah. what I wanted to say is that I think a lot of people use AI for the wrong things. So they
Paul Walsh: Mm-hmm.
Mikulas: for example LinkedIn, you know, marketing posts and all of that.
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: I always when I open up LinkedIn, I always look at that post that is generated by AI and and think to myself, yes, that's one thing. And
Paul Walsh: And you can tell within the first line the first sentence, yeah.
Mikulas: yes, you know and the other thing is like would that person who posted that post actually read that and think that this is useful. It's just very surface level and the
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: kind of AI isms i in it. I I really I hate it. I hate it. And
Paul Walsh: Yeah.
Mikulas: that's why I like this podcasting approach is you can have real conversations with people and yeah you can
Paul Walsh: You you can't hide, right? You're talking to an in a real person. That that's part of the reason why we do the webinar, because I think the webinar is the similar is a similar point, right? You can
Mikulas: Uh-huh.
Paul Walsh: webinar workshops, when you're dealing with an individual, a live performance as such, it's not i mean, you could have someone reading a script, but at the same time it is it you're s you're still having to, you know, if you've got QA, you're still having to have that interaction with people and you're gonna have to answer on the spot. And so you are getting that human response rather than, you know, us sending out white papers, which could probably be written by an AI or whatever, that's just all AI jargon, you know. So I think that we're very much in that mindset as well, because there's a there's a fine line between in with it with AI. And I think for me it's it's the efficiency is the is what you should be using it for, the process rather than the output. So I think that's that's a big for that's a that's a big thing for us that we're thinking about because also we're we are call we call ourselves we are a human inclusion. organization and we we particularly use the word human. you you may have s realised or not, but the name Enola is actually all one backwards. and that's the idea is that we're all one. So when we're in organization, we need to work as all one because that's what's going to get you to the the goal of of creating that that high performing culture. So it's all about the human that's going to create that. And as much as we have the machine supporting and using us, we still we can't forget about the individuals because I think that's what it feels like workplaces are moving towards that. and that is what is creating a lot of the issues, a lot of the problems.
Mikulas: Hm. What kind of tips could you give around hosting webinars and running successful ones?
Paul Walsh: well, first tip, we use an organization, do a bit of a name drop for them. but they're called Quantum Scale. so we worked with them as a as a partner and they helped us set up the whole process. and so we've been working with them for about a year now. they're brilliant in terms of every they just kind of step by step take you through the whole process of of building that. but I think with the once you start delivering the webinar, we use a platform called Webinar Geek, which is again really, really great. in terms of the it can build the sequences and this is when AI is amazing. So it could does all the once you've delivered it, it sends out the email sequence and it's all branded and you've got the you don't have to think worry about any of that. So as soon as you've ended the webinar, the rest of it takes care of itself for them. So that kind of AI stuff is great. but I think with the the messaging it's really important to be again human, honest and authentic because I think you'll it's very easy to just kind of make up stuff and say, you know, this happened or we did this and we did that. and I would I would encourage you not to steer away from that. So any th so for example, if you don't have a it's always good to have proof because human proof is the best thing, right? So a testimonial or a comment from somebody that said they worked with you and this was the outcome. If you don't have that, then just don't put it in. I wouldn't make something up because people will be able to tell when it's not real. so I think just always being authentic and genuine about what it is you your successes or your results. I think also you just have to be very clear in what you're offering. So what the offer is, what the product is, what the process is and what they're actually going to get. And so whenever we build our webinars, it's very much about saying, okay, this is who we are, this is the problem, this is the solution, and this is how we've solved this problem. So it's very straightforward in terms of the process to follow and how we tell the story. And we show this is how we've done it through case studies of examples of how we've actually delivered it with with clients. And then we have a QA at the end to show again that human element of so we've shown you we can do it, but actually now we'll prove that we have the experience and the knowledge to be able to deal with any questions or s problems that may come up that you might be experiencing. So it's that live I think that's the best way to kind of live demo that you know what you you're talking about, you know that you've got the experience, you know what you're doing.
Mikulas: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Paul, what's kind of one thing that you would do differently now that you've been sitting in the you know MD chair for six years? What would you do differently if you would start in today's
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: two thousand and twenty-six with all the stuff that you know?
Paul Walsh: That's a good question. It's very good question. I think I probably what would I do differently? Maybe I I think like I would have focused more on the close to home clients. So I would have started there instead of kind of starting outwards and working my way back in. so I would have started there with the clients that exist well, not existing, because we obviously well existing, but clients that have are in our network. So anybody that attends the webinar, for example, those people focus on those and trying to generate business through them rather than trying to go to a completely new area that have never heard of us and trying to win those guys over. So I think I would definitely do that. probably invest more in social media. Cause I think it's so it's such a it's so crucial to the way that we we live and we work now. Everything is on social media. So I think I did resist it for a while. For example TikTok. We only started using TikTok the last six months and I resisted it for a long time because I was like, Well, it's not our it's not our age demographic, it's not our we're not gonna have our clients on TikTok. so I was just that was my mindset was this is for young people use TikTok. but since we've been using it, it's our one of our biggest lead generators because the most the amount of eyes you have on TikTok is insane. Like if you if you look think about if I compare it to Instagram Instagram or or LinkedIn. LinkedIn is is is probably higher quality in terms of the the people that are looking at your content, but link but just the sheer numbers on TikTok is just doesn't compare. So I would have done that sooner because we generate so much interest through TikTok and then people don't necessarily ask for business through there, but they'll go to your website, then they'll go to LinkedIn, then they'll they'll contact you that way. So I think that I'd definitely invest more in that because I think that's just a faster way to get to the to the client.
Mikulas: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's one of the reasons that I've also started this podcast is
Paul Walsh: Hmm.
Mikulas: because personal brand is such a big thing.
Paul Walsh: Huge.
Mikulas: like if you you don't exist if you don't have a social media
Paul Walsh: Doesn't
Mikulas: account nowadays.
Paul Walsh: Yeah. Doesn't matter how good you are as well, right? If nobody knows about you, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
Mikulas: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay. Paula, so for for folks that would like to connect with you or Chicanola, where where can they do so?
Paul Walsh: Yeah, so we're on a number of different platforms. You can go to our old fashioned way, go to the website. It's www.inolaconsulting.com, or you can find us on Instagram, which is at Enola Consulting. LinkedIn is also the same at Consult Enola Consulting. TikTok is also the same. and we're on YouTube as well. So we we've have a podcast which is called the Human Inclusion Podcast. but we haven't done one for a while, actually. So I think we're looking to reignite that and I think today as well. gave me the inspired me to get back into the podcasting as well. So I think we might be having some episodes coming up soon. But yeah, we're on various platforms. So you can you can find us there. and yeah, we'd love to just, you know, just follow us. We've got a lot of content. We're always talking about these kind of issues that come up in the workplace. On our TikTok, we've got video sharing videos around that and client experiences that we've had. so yeah, we and again our webinar I run every two weeks. the next one is on Thursday. So if you'd be interested in that You can go to our website or to our LinkedIn page and you can see the information to register. but yeah, we'd love to keep the conversation going. we're always keen to talk to people that are interested or looking to elevate their experience for their employees.
Mikulas: Okay, superb. I will leave links down below and thank you for listening and Paul thank you for joining.
Paul Walsh: Thank you so much. Good to speak to you.
Paul Walsh: Thank you so much. Great to be here.
Mikulas: So for people that don't know Paul, who is Paul and what does he do?
Paul Walsh: That's a good question. I mean, so yeah, I'm Paul Walsh. I'm managing director of Anola Consulting. it's a family-owned business. we've been running since two thousand and ten, officially, off the back of the Equality Act in the UK. and the business has gone through a number of different transitions. so My story is I've my dad is the CEO and the co-founder of the business and I've always kind of been around this conversation for a long time, but didn't actually start working in the business until the last six years. So I've been kind of doing a number of different things. I've started off as a I guess like most young boys growing up in England wanted to be a footballer. that was always my dream to be a a professional athlete. and so I really focused on that and got quite far and Got to a semi professional level, trialed at some professional teams, but didn't quite make it. But I always, I guess I was smart enough to have a backup and do something alongside that in case it didn't work out. So I studied and went to university, went down that route as well. and then once I realized I wasn't gonna make it as a professional footballer, I thought I'd better do something else and have a career because I need to earn money. so I went into customer services and I was working in that field for about 10 years. I think it's always I've always been closely connected to the work that we do at Enola. I think I've always had the desire to want to help people and to see people succeed and that that closely links with the work that we do with Anola. So I think it's always kind of been embedded in me and maybe it's psychologically or unconsciously sorry my father's influence coming through so I did that for a number of years and worked at a number of different firms. worked up my way up to being manager of a various support teams and then in 2016 I was made redundant for my role and then at that time my girlfriend who is Brazilian suggested that we move to Brazil. I took the l the the the jump thinking that it was gonna be just a couple of months, see what I what it's like, if I like it or not. And then yeah, ten years later still here. love it, living here with kids,
Mikulas: Yeah.
Paul Walsh: two kids, two young kids, one three and one one years old. and yeah, working for Enola Consulting. I guess that came around during COVID. I think when COVID happened, there was a big shift in the it's 'cause it it aligned with the George Floyd incident in the US. and that really was kind of the turning point for Enola, because a lot of clients moved towards our side of work, which is working around diversity and inclusion and how do we make those inclusive environments to ensure that your people thrive. And so our our work kind of took off as a result of that. And my dad was always in the background saying, Come and work with us, come and work with us, come and work with us and that was the moment it kind of just aligned for me to do that. So I joined during COVID or just before COVID. and then yeah. Since then we've kind of moved through the business and worked in marketing and now working in working as a facilitator and now working in the as the D of of the sales, sales team. So it's been a it's been a long journey to get me here, but yeah. But kind of seen all s all
Mikulas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Paul Walsh: elements of the business.
Mikulas: Awesome. And can you share more on what you do? because you you you said before we started recording that you are you record webinars.
Paul Walsh: Yeah, so yeah, so I I g kinda do a bit of everything. My role is commercial services, so director of commercial services. So okay, so the day to day role is always looking at how do we keep the pipeline full. always looking at c j generating new business, getting more business from existing customers, but also building our engagement, our awareness, our social presence. So, we have a podcast, we do webinars, it's it's basically our biggest sales funnel. So every two weeks I run a webinar talking about our At the moment we've got one which is based around the capability issues that managers face because that's a big issue we're seeing with clients at the moment. There seems to be a bottleneck in terms of what the expectation of managers are, but they don't have the necessarily the tools to be able to deliver what they're expected to do. so we've got a solution that can solve that because we're seeing a lot of issues that managers are having, especially in the in the modern world of AI, you're just expected to do more and more with less and less time and less and less skill set to do that. So our recent webinar is about that and that's runs every two weeks. We've also I'm in charge of the social media team. So our social media team, we've got we're on Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, YouTube, so yeah, we've quite varied in terms of our presence online. so yeah, those are the kind of areas I look after. But day to day bread and butter is the good old pipeline, make sure that's full, make sure that we've always got new business coming in.
Mikulas: Mm-hmm. And so for because my podcast is very consulting B2B firms related, and
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: I own I basically only invite consulting firm owners
Paul Walsh: Yeah.
Mikulas: and managing partners. What kind of advice could you give around you know managing pipeline and the marketing efforts that you've seen work?
Paul Walsh: Yeah. It's a good question. I think I think I probably learnt over the last I think more more recently, I was always so focused on getting new business. That was the thing for me was like new business, new business. And it's very hard for a an organization like ourselves. We're not the biggest. We have about thirteen full time staff. I would say we're probably tier two if you talk about the level or the sizes of the consultancy firms out there. So we're obviously not one of the big tier ones, but we are quite close to the top of tier two. And for us it's the biggest issue we have is nobody knows who we are. So that's the problem that you've always struggling with is trying to generate that engagement and interest. So I was so focused on we need to get new business, we need to get new business, but you end up I've found that you sometimes end up going down a rabbit hole, spending so much time and energy trying to generate new business, where the chances are that your next client is probably someone you already know in your n in your network, somebody in your contact book that you have either worked with previously or they're aware of you and they are kind of just waiting to do some more work with you. So my focus has shifted in the last three months on how do we really warm up The context that we have at the moment. So those people who already know us, how do we focus on generating more work from those people rather than trying to get cold, brand new, brand new leads? and that seems to be working well for us because it's a lot, it's a much easier conversation to have with someone who already knows who you are. and as well, we have a lot
Mikulas: Hm, for sure.
Paul Walsh: of, I would say maybe eighty percent of our work comes through referrals. So we're fortunate enough to have the industry that we work in is quite small. So you'll have people that move around from job to job quite often, maybe twelve months, eighteen months in post. And we are very fortunate to have the experience where they take us with them. So they like the work that we do. We've done a great job. And when they leave their position, they call us up when they get to the new place and say, We need you to come here and help us and do what we did at the last job. So that's we're very fortunate to have that. And I think that's down to the fact that obviously we do our job well and we're trusted by our our clients that they want to take us to do to do the same things in their new role. so yeah, but I think the main thing I'm seeing is focus on focus closer to home rather than trying to spread out and do do too much with the with the new business.
Mikulas: Hmm. Paulo, who would you say you can help the best in terms of if you look at kind of the client portfolio, what
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: are the you know common patterns that you see that show you that this will be a successful engagement?
Paul Walsh: Yeah. I think we tend to our work is very much we're we're all about how do you create the conditions in order for your people to thrive. That's that's the basic principle that we look at when we engage with a client. Because a lot of the times we'll have a conversation where someone says to us they need X training. So it could be they need unconscious bias training, for example. but we would then say, Okay, so why do you think you need that? What is the solution that you're trying to resolve and why do you think this is the answer to that solution? And once you have that discussion with them, you kind of realize, actually it's not that, it's this, or it's this and that. So then you get to the the crux of what they actually need. so our work is quite agnostic in terms of the the industry that we work with, because anybody that has that needs the the performance of their individuals in the organization needs our work because it's all about creating those conditions to be able to make your people thrive. And then if they're feeling safe and they're feeling thrive. they can thrive, they will stay and they'll perform at their best. And that's all we we're interested in in doing. But I think over what we've seen over the last few, I'd say 18 months or so, is that there's a lot of a lot of our clients tend to be in the tech and media space. So that seems to be what we're seeing a lot in media entertainment, tech. We're getting a lot of those. also those that are very committed to doing the work because Training isn't gonna change a one training session isn't gonna make the difference. You need to be committed to the journey because it's all about it's not a one and done. We can't spend three hours with somebody and then they've got an inclusive environment. That's not gonna work. so it's really about that's just the beginning of of doing it. It's kind of scratching the surface. But if you've got that commitment to an organization that really wants to make the change, that's gonna be all the that make all the difference because it is a it's an ongoing journey. So we really like to partner with those clients who are committed to making that, taking that next step and really invested in doing the work because it's yeah, it's not a one and done. So I think that that commitment is is really, really important. and also I think open mindedness as well. Because I think
Mikulas: Mm.
Paul Walsh: when our our work it what first thing I would say we don't do training because it can be seen as I will come in and tell you do this, do that, say this, don't say that. That's not gonna work as well because it's you know you're you're dealing with professionals, super intelligent people, very competent people that know what they're doing. They don't want somebody coming in for three hours and telling them to say and what not to say. That's not going to make any difference. It's all about changing your mindset. And that's that's the that's sort of the focus is on. So I think open-mindedness is important as well because if you don't have someone who's willing to collaborate or cooperate, it's not going to go anywhere. So I think that as well, because when we do have those clients that are open minded, they realize, this isn't what I expected it was going to be. No someone's talking at me for three hours pointing a finger and telling me I'm a bad person. No, it's not that. This is actually gonna make me think differently about how I treat my individuals in my in my team, the employees, and how I can actually make this their situation better in order to perform better and that's gonna help the organisation generate more money, which is the bottom line of organizations. So I think those are I'd probably say the main three things that we we look for.
Mikulas: Hmm. Yeah, it's it's very interesting because you know I think consulting it has kind of a bad a lot of people
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: think it's it's it's it's how should I say it?
Paul Walsh: Easy to do.
Mikulas: Yes, it's very easy to do and that you will just walk in and give them some kind of templated you know sales training or something, but it's much more you know tailored to the specific person
Paul Walsh: So much more.
Mikulas: because you need to what would you say are like some of the most frequent things that you see people doing wrong in organizations?
Paul Walsh: I think with our land work in particular, I think the thing that we see a lot, and this is no this is no slight on anybody. I think it's just the way that because organizations are not full of bad people. They're full of people with no poor time poor. so there's not people running around saying, how can I exclude this person? It's not about that. It's just they don't have the time to do it. So if you don't have the time you just you're just not consciously thinking about how to do these things because you've got so many other things going on. so I think for me, what we see a lot is there's a lot of tick boxing. It's I'm doing this because I just it's just into just do this and it's it's it's it's gonna make me look good, but I'm not actually interested in the outcome of this. So for example, creating an inclusive environment, are we gonna do inclusive leadership training? Is one of the things that we get asked a lot. And I think Organizations, we see a lot of organizations that just do it because they think they have to do it, say, Okay, yeah, we've done that now, so we're inclusive, that's all good, we can go back to our day job now. It's over. and that's I'd say is the biggest issue because it's not a one and done. That's just that's not gonna change anything. and also in in some cases it can be worse because you're you're creating mixed messages to say, we're doing this, we're investing in this, but we're not really we don't really care about it. So we're gonna just spend some money on it and look like we are interested. But in three months time, two weeks' time even, we go back to the way we were before and it's all forgotten. so that's probably what I'd say is the the biggest mistake that we see is that just doing it because they think it's the right thing to do or because they see other people are doing it, competitors are doing it, and they think they have to do the same thing. rather than actually understanding the importance of it and doing it because they know what the impact it will have on their individuals and actually believing in the work. so I think that's probably the biggest issue that we see, I'd say.
Mikulas: Hmm. How do you approach AI? Because it's it seems that it's a very discussed topic in all industries.
Paul Walsh: Yeah.
Mikulas: how d where does it fit in consulting if if it does?
Paul Walsh: it does for sure because it's not going anywhere, right? So we we're gonna have to learn how to work with it and live with it. And one of the things that we do is how can we use it of in our terms internally, we how do we how can we use it to be to make ourselves more efficient? because it it will it's more about process for us rather than output. So if we can automate a process, we will do that internally. if it'll make it our jobs easier, but we would never use it for creating a workshop, for example, because that's the whole point of it is you're dealing with human interaction, human context. So it has to be unique, authentic, original, that's created content. So we always all of our IP is created authentically. my my dad who is the CEO actually is the is the brain child behind it. He creates all of our IP kind of the ideas and then we we build on that. so that's all completely authentic. But in terms of the the other processes in the background, the operational processes, we use it in that way. I think organizations are most that we've s we deal with, there is a lot of pressure about AI because it's you've got to use it. So it's like, how do we use it? And I think people just end up using it or relying on it too much. and also it can create a lot of can create a lot of issues in terms of biases as well because is made by human, right? So the the rules and and the the design of it is by human. So if somebody is creating a the ru the rules but that person has bias because we all have bias, then the all it's gonna do is replicate the bias at a faster rate, a bigger scale. So it's not it yes, it's efficient, it's quick, but it's still gonna have the issues that human would have. It just does it on a much bigger scale. So I think that's something we have to be con worried about. Or not worried, but we have to be aware and alive to because I think It's great having AI and it's very efficient and it's super quick, but I think we still need to mi be mindful about taking it as gospel because I think there are things that need to be checked. 'Cause I I I see that all the time. People don't even check AI anymore. It's just they'll just send it directly without even looking at it. and it's not, you know, it's not read or double
Mikulas: Yeah, yeah. what I wanted to say is that I think a lot of people use AI for the wrong things. So they
Paul Walsh: Mm-hmm.
Mikulas: for example LinkedIn, you know, marketing posts and all of that.
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: I always when I open up LinkedIn, I always look at that post that is generated by AI and and think to myself, yes, that's one thing. And
Paul Walsh: And you can tell within the first line the first sentence, yeah.
Mikulas: yes, you know and the other thing is like would that person who posted that post actually read that and think that this is useful. It's just very surface level and the
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: kind of AI isms i in it. I I really I hate it. I hate it. And
Paul Walsh: Yeah.
Mikulas: that's why I like this podcasting approach is you can have real conversations with people and yeah you can
Paul Walsh: You you can't hide, right? You're talking to an in a real person. That that's part of the reason why we do the webinar, because I think the webinar is the similar is a similar point, right? You can
Mikulas: Uh-huh.
Paul Walsh: webinar workshops, when you're dealing with an individual, a live performance as such, it's not i mean, you could have someone reading a script, but at the same time it is it you're s you're still having to, you know, if you've got QA, you're still having to have that interaction with people and you're gonna have to answer on the spot. And so you are getting that human response rather than, you know, us sending out white papers, which could probably be written by an AI or whatever, that's just all AI jargon, you know. So I think that we're very much in that mindset as well, because there's a there's a fine line between in with it with AI. And I think for me it's it's the efficiency is the is what you should be using it for, the process rather than the output. So I think that's that's a big for that's a that's a big thing for us that we're thinking about because also we're we are call we call ourselves we are a human inclusion. organization and we we particularly use the word human. you you may have s realised or not, but the name Enola is actually all one backwards. and that's the idea is that we're all one. So when we're in organization, we need to work as all one because that's what's going to get you to the the goal of of creating that that high performing culture. So it's all about the human that's going to create that. And as much as we have the machine supporting and using us, we still we can't forget about the individuals because I think that's what it feels like workplaces are moving towards that. and that is what is creating a lot of the issues, a lot of the problems.
Mikulas: Hm. What kind of tips could you give around hosting webinars and running successful ones?
Paul Walsh: well, first tip, we use an organization, do a bit of a name drop for them. but they're called Quantum Scale. so we worked with them as a as a partner and they helped us set up the whole process. and so we've been working with them for about a year now. they're brilliant in terms of every they just kind of step by step take you through the whole process of of building that. but I think with the once you start delivering the webinar, we use a platform called Webinar Geek, which is again really, really great. in terms of the it can build the sequences and this is when AI is amazing. So it could does all the once you've delivered it, it sends out the email sequence and it's all branded and you've got the you don't have to think worry about any of that. So as soon as you've ended the webinar, the rest of it takes care of itself for them. So that kind of AI stuff is great. but I think with the the messaging it's really important to be again human, honest and authentic because I think you'll it's very easy to just kind of make up stuff and say, you know, this happened or we did this and we did that. and I would I would encourage you not to steer away from that. So any th so for example, if you don't have a it's always good to have proof because human proof is the best thing, right? So a testimonial or a comment from somebody that said they worked with you and this was the outcome. If you don't have that, then just don't put it in. I wouldn't make something up because people will be able to tell when it's not real. so I think just always being authentic and genuine about what it is you your successes or your results. I think also you just have to be very clear in what you're offering. So what the offer is, what the product is, what the process is and what they're actually going to get. And so whenever we build our webinars, it's very much about saying, okay, this is who we are, this is the problem, this is the solution, and this is how we've solved this problem. So it's very straightforward in terms of the process to follow and how we tell the story. And we show this is how we've done it through case studies of examples of how we've actually delivered it with with clients. And then we have a QA at the end to show again that human element of so we've shown you we can do it, but actually now we'll prove that we have the experience and the knowledge to be able to deal with any questions or s problems that may come up that you might be experiencing. So it's that live I think that's the best way to kind of live demo that you know what you you're talking about, you know that you've got the experience, you know what you're doing.
Mikulas: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Paul, what's kind of one thing that you would do differently now that you've been sitting in the you know MD chair for six years? What would you do differently if you would start in today's
Paul Walsh: Mm.
Mikulas: two thousand and twenty-six with all the stuff that you know?
Paul Walsh: That's a good question. It's very good question. I think I probably what would I do differently? Maybe I I think like I would have focused more on the close to home clients. So I would have started there instead of kind of starting outwards and working my way back in. so I would have started there with the clients that exist well, not existing, because we obviously well existing, but clients that have are in our network. So anybody that attends the webinar, for example, those people focus on those and trying to generate business through them rather than trying to go to a completely new area that have never heard of us and trying to win those guys over. So I think I would definitely do that. probably invest more in social media. Cause I think it's so it's such a it's so crucial to the way that we we live and we work now. Everything is on social media. So I think I did resist it for a while. For example TikTok. We only started using TikTok the last six months and I resisted it for a long time because I was like, Well, it's not our it's not our age demographic, it's not our we're not gonna have our clients on TikTok. so I was just that was my mindset was this is for young people use TikTok. but since we've been using it, it's our one of our biggest lead generators because the most the amount of eyes you have on TikTok is insane. Like if you if you look think about if I compare it to Instagram Instagram or or LinkedIn. LinkedIn is is is probably higher quality in terms of the the people that are looking at your content, but link but just the sheer numbers on TikTok is just doesn't compare. So I would have done that sooner because we generate so much interest through TikTok and then people don't necessarily ask for business through there, but they'll go to your website, then they'll go to LinkedIn, then they'll they'll contact you that way. So I think that I'd definitely invest more in that because I think that's just a faster way to get to the to the client.
Mikulas: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's one of the reasons that I've also started this podcast is
Paul Walsh: Hmm.
Mikulas: because personal brand is such a big thing.
Paul Walsh: Huge.
Mikulas: like if you you don't exist if you don't have a social media
Paul Walsh: Doesn't
Mikulas: account nowadays.
Paul Walsh: Yeah. Doesn't matter how good you are as well, right? If nobody knows about you, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
Mikulas: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay. Paula, so for for folks that would like to connect with you or Chicanola, where where can they do so?
Paul Walsh: Yeah, so we're on a number of different platforms. You can go to our old fashioned way, go to the website. It's www.inolaconsulting.com, or you can find us on Instagram, which is at Enola Consulting. LinkedIn is also the same at Consult Enola Consulting. TikTok is also the same. and we're on YouTube as well. So we we've have a podcast which is called the Human Inclusion Podcast. but we haven't done one for a while, actually. So I think we're looking to reignite that and I think today as well. gave me the inspired me to get back into the podcasting as well. So I think we might be having some episodes coming up soon. But yeah, we're on various platforms. So you can you can find us there. and yeah, we'd love to just, you know, just follow us. We've got a lot of content. We're always talking about these kind of issues that come up in the workplace. On our TikTok, we've got video sharing videos around that and client experiences that we've had. so yeah, we and again our webinar I run every two weeks. the next one is on Thursday. So if you'd be interested in that You can go to our website or to our LinkedIn page and you can see the information to register. but yeah, we'd love to keep the conversation going. we're always keen to talk to people that are interested or looking to elevate their experience for their employees.
Mikulas: Okay, superb. I will leave links down below and thank you for listening and Paul thank you for joining.
Paul Walsh: Thank you so much. Good to speak to you.
