S02 E10 - Meredith Bell (Grow Strong Leaders)

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So before we begin this delightful conversation, I want to make a plug for all
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of you leaders out there who are very likely struggling with overwhelm in your life.
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We have so many ambitions and responsibilities in our roles as leaders,
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but we often fail to be able to even address the most important work that needs
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to be done just due to the sheer volume or the mismanagement of it.
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So it's for this reason that I've decided to give away for free the entire self-management
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module of the clearing obstacles roadmap.
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Now the full roadmap itself is the comprehensive set of tools that I use with
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all of my clients to help them in our coaching journey, but it always starts
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every time with the self-work or self-management specifically.
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I'm deeply committed to helping you get traction in your life so you can crush
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those frustrations of overwhelm that are holding you back from the success that you're living for.
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All 11 lessons stand on their own, but together they delve into solutions that
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extend far beyond mere productivity tools.
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So go to bestself.coach slash free to get started today.
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I want you to have your own self-management operating system to help you clear
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the obstacles that are in your way. Can't wait to see you there.
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I think too often it's kind of parallel with that fixed mindset and the growth
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mindset is this idea of victim and owner.
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If I feel like things are happening to me, then I lose my sense of choice and
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ability to control myself and my own reactions in a given situation.
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Whereas if I take the owner mindset, it's like, okay, so here's the situation. I can't change it.
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Why am I going to curse at it or get frustrated by it? Instead,
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say, how can I work with this? What can I create from this? Yeah.
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Welcome to season two of Clearing Obstacles, the podcast for leaders and those
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that want to be because no organization, not even yours, can thrive without effective leadership.
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Now, as you master this skill, it will become the superpower that gains the
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love and respect of your team, the freedom you seek in your life and business,
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and ultimately, the success of your vision.
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I'm your host and coach, Dan Kent, with Best Self Coaching, and in Season 2,
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we're bringing you the voices of thought leaders who have a unique and valuable
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perspective to share on how to reimagine and redefine leadership in our world today.
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We'll be diving into topics of vision and authority and accountability,
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management, culture, vulnerability, self-awareness, and much more because they
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all fall on the shoulders of today's leaders.
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Are you one of those exceptional people? Well, he can be.
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Our guests all have extensive theoretical and philosophical depth that's also
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matched by their experience and the practical application of those principles.
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And we think you're going to agree.
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So all of you emerging and evolving leaders, buckle up as we clear the obstacles
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to help you get there from here.
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So we live in a world where genuine connections lead to unexpected opportunities.
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You've probably had some possibilities seemingly come out of nowhere yourself.
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Well, that's exactly what happened several months ago when I found myself as
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a guest on another podcast.
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And little did I know that that appearance would set in motion a chain of events
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that would lead us to today's exceptional guest.
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During that podcast, the host introduced me to someone involved in their production process.
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And our conversation, while not immediately fruitful in terms of business,
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opened a door to something far more valuable. This gentleman that I was introduced
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to, recognizing a potential connection, introduced me to a woman he thought
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that would make a fascinating guest for the Clearing Obstacles podcast.
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We'll enter Meredith Bell.
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An absolute beacon of kindness and generosity in the world of leadership and
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development, with decades of experience under her belt, Meredith embodies the
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very essence of authentic leadership.
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In the conversations that she and I have shared since that fortuitous introduction,
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I've been consistently struck by Meredith's humble demeanor and thoughtful grace.
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Her accomplishments and the notable figures she's worked with might never even
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come up if you left it to her to mention them.
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Yet her impact in the business world and the lives she's touched is profound.
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Today we have the honor of hearing Meredith share her experiences in her own words.
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She'll take us through her journey of positive change in the business world,
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offering insights that only someone with her unique perspective and experience could even provide.
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For 30 years, Meredith has been at the helm as the president and co-founder
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of the company Grow Strong Leaders.
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And through this platform and her tireless efforts to share her gifts and wisdom,
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she's She's been changing the world one business at a time with her time-tested
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approach to strong, compassionate, and effective leadership through character
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and communication skills building.
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It's with great pleasure and excitement that I welcome to the Clearing Obstacles
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podcast a woman who just exemplifies the power of authentic generosity in business
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and in life, Meredith Bell. Meredith, welcome to Clearing Obstacles.
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Oh my gosh, Dan. That is the most touching introduction I've ever experienced.
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Oh, wonderful. Thank you for reflecting back to me, you know,
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who I aspire to be in the world.
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And it's very affirming to hear some of those values that I cherish the most. That's terrific.
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You have recognized. So thank you for that. That was just wonderful. Good.
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I mean, it's clear that such, it's so clear that that's your intention for how
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you want to show up because it just shines through every interaction that we've had.
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Email, we've had several conversations prior to this one.
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And each time I'm just so grateful to have had that introduction.
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It was. It was this fortuitous, like, third steps removed from a person that
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I happen to have been connected through a fourth.
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It's magical the way those connections happen. I think we'll probably touch
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on that a little bit more today as well.
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So, I'm hoping to talk a lot more about that.
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That as well. But maybe you can start us off by sharing a little bit about Grow
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Strong Leaders and your extensive experience that got you where you're at today.
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Well, going way back, I started out as a classroom teacher with fourth grade.
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That was my very first career. All my life, I'd wanted to be a teacher.
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But what I found after a few years in the classroom was I didn't care for the
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routine, the repetitive nature.
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And so I got my master's and I thought, well, let me move into school board
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office work and having a greater impact.
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And after three different school divisions, I realized, uh-oh,
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I am not cut out for politics or bureaucracy.
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Few of us are.
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Yeah. But I mean, it just took a toll on me physically.
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And so I just took a leap of faith, honestly, with the support of my wonderful,
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at that time, new husband and started my own business.
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Because one of the things I had really enjoyed at that point,
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I had been working with teachers and I loved working around communication skills
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and how do we work well as a team.
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So I just decided to start working with companies with not any business background.
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This should be encouraging to your listeners if they're hesitant to try something
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new. You don't have to have all the answers.
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You can live on your confidence and figure, I can learn this.
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And back then, there was no internet.
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It was cassette tapes and books and studying. and then, of course,
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just failing a lot and figuring out what to do. But I had this...
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Interest all along in how people connect with each other, how they interact,
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what does it take to have a good relationship?
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So I started focusing on leadership skills, team building, mainly around communications.
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So communication skills have been a passion of mine for many years.
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And then in 1990, I met, and I was a solo consultant for a long time.
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And then I met Denny Coates in 1990 and found someone who was very much aligned to my own approach.
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He was also a solo consultant. So we started collaborating, found we were really compatible.
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And after a couple of years, we said, you know, let's put our two businesses
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together, make this more efficient.
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And we brought in a third partner at that time. So the three of us have now
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worked together for almost 33 years. Wow.
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That's got some legs, man.
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Not many professional relationships endure for that long.
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No, no. Well, marriages either. Well, definitely marriage, maybe even more so.
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Yeah, I just celebrated 42 years on that side.
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So I'm a big believer in making relationships work. Yeah.
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But what was interesting is Denny and I got to a point where we wanted to use
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what's called 360 feedback with clients.
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And back in the early 90s, that was a very new technology. I was just going
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to say that had to be the launchpad. Oh my gosh, yes.
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Back then it was scan forms that people completed and sent off to the publisher.
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And it was mainly focused on senior leaders.
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And so that was frustrating to us. We had a variety of kinds of clients.
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So one set of questions didn't really apply to them.
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So we decided, what the heck, we're going to create our own.
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Soon we hired a software developer and released our first 360 product in 1994 and never looked back.
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Software development in early 90s. I mean, there barely even was such a thing.
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Talk about a proving ground for a product.
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Well, we just decided, of course, the word today is pivot,
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but we just made that shift from consulting and training and coaching and coaching
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wasn't even a thing back then, but that's what we were involved in doing to
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being a product company.
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And that's what we focused on ever since. We felt like we, if we had products
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that could be used by lots of other companies, then that would allow us to have
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a greater impact over time. Right.
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So that's been our focus. is assessment and then also development.
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So not just helping leaders find out where are my strengths and where are others
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saying I'm strong and need area for improvement, but also now what do I do once
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I have that information?
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So creating products that support development in addition to assessment.
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Gotcha. So it sounds really product-based. Do you guys kind of augment that
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with one-on-one or one-on-team types of consulting?
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Oh, we don't do any consulting, coaching, or training ourselves.
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No kidding. We work with many coaches and consultants. They've been our clients over the years.
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And we also have corporations, different types of businesses,
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government agencies that have used our products over time.
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And, you know, Dan, we also believe in long-term relationships.
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Some of our clients and resellers have worked with us for 25 and 30 years. Wow.
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Wow. I want everybody in the back to listen to that last part about the relationships
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that have endured and not just kept you afloat, as is the case with a lot of
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businesses. We're just kind of hanging on.
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But, I mean, it's helped you guys to thrive and sustain for 30, 34 years now.
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Relationships. Relationships. Say it again. Relationships. Thank you.
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All about relationships. And that's why we're so passionate about communication,
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because that's such a key element of being able to have a strong relationship,
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whether at work or at home.
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Yeah, boy, that sure has been a through line in this season thus far in clearing
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obstacles relationships.
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And, you know, that's a pretty broad tent, actually, under which I think reside
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a lot of other traits and skills and character,
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which is probably a really good segue to talk about a new product you guys have coming up.
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So by the time of this recording, we're like two days away from this enormous
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launch for you guys on a new product that you have.
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So by the time you listeners are hearing it, this should be live and in full sprint.
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Meredith, tell us about what that is, would you? Sure.
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It's called GSL for Grow Strong Leaders, Skill Builder.
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And the focus is on two key areas of leadership, communication skills and what
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we call character skills. And as I talk about that, people kind of go, character skills.
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And we intentionally chose that phrase because often people think of character
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as something you have or you don't.
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And they don't necessarily think of it as really a composite of multiple sub-skills.
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Because character really is something just like communication skills can be developed over time.
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We can get stronger with our integrity, with our honesty, with so many things that add up to us.
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What kind of person am I in life? And those are so valuable, too.
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These are topics that Denny and I have been interested in for a very long time,
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and he just recently published, we recently published this book,
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we published our own books called Grow Strong Character.
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Oh, okay. And in it, he takes a set of 36 different skills organized in three chunks, if you will.
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Those related to self, those related to relationships, and those related to work ethic.
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But of course, there's overlap in them. But it helps to think of them sometimes
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in a discrete way so we can look at which areas am I already strong in?
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But where do I feel like, boy, if I up-leveled this particular aspect of myself,
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I would be more effective?
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I just want to lean into a point here. You know, you mentioned something about,
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you know, we think of character often as something that you have or you don't.
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And it's exhausting and to be candid, frustrating when I'm working with clients
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who ever utter the phrase, that's just who I am.
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I just want to tear my hair out and reach through the Zoom call and kindly.
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Gently put my hands around their throat and say, think through that again. Hold on.
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Because it implies that you're hard-coded and there's no changing,
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there's no evolving, there's no growth available there.
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Certainly, we have a predisposition based on our family group growing up or
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authority figures in our lives or different experiences we've had, to be sure.
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But these things, we can evolve into, we can grow, we can identify our blind spots.
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Will you say more to that in some of your experiences that have proven that
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little hypothesis? this is? Yeah, absolutely.
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In fact, listening to you, I just recently read a quote from Carol Dweck about
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fixed and growth mindset.
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And I don't have it in front of me right now, but I remember when I read it,
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I thought, oh my gosh, this parallels what we're saying about character in the
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same way. because in a fixed mindset, it's just what you said.
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I'm kind of, I am what I am. And that's just the way it is versus a growth mindset
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where I believe I'm capable of learning more. I'm capable of making changes.
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And that's really how we see character.
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It is something that can be molded and developed.
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And, you know, Dan, it's all about choices.
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Every morning, I spend time writing in a journal, creating myself for that day.
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I can make choices about who I'm going to be that day. And what it does is it grounds me.
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So, as an example, I am love. I am loving service to everyone I speak with.
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I speak possibility into everyone I talk to.
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I am creative. I am creating a masterpiece day.
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So when I build these kinds of thoughts into my brain, guess how I show up?
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I'm positive. I'm seeing myself as capable of creating whatever I want.
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And that's very different from someone who is saying, that's just the way I am.
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And what we can do with folks who tend to have that kind of thinking is just
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exploring with them, where does that thought come from?
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What in your experience has caused you to conclude that you're a finished product?
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Is this the necessary conclusion?
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Really? Yeah, that curiosity.
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And I think that's sometimes what's missing when people feel I'm a done deal as I am.
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Where's the curiosity element to learn, explore, grow? Yeah.
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Anybody who hasn't read that book from Carol Dweck called Mindset,
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put it on your reading list and push it towards the top if you've got a long reading list, as I do.
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I love the way you phrase that, Meredith. You get to create who you're going
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to be that day in your morning reflection or your journaling exercise.
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I've never heard it actually phrased that way, and that just really resonates with me.
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I really dig that. We can make declarations about ourselves and live into them.
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An example, one of my favorite declarations to make, and I write it just about
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every day, I am absolute calmness, clarity, and confidence.
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Well, guess how that serves me well? A number of years ago, I was doing a virtual
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webinar for people around the globe.
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Before my internet went out. Oh, no. And it was supposed to come back the next
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morning in time for this presentation, but I couldn't count on that because
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you know how that can go. Yes, ma'am.
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So I contacted the coordinator and let her know.
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And she said, how do you sound so calm? I share with her this declaration that I make.
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I said, there's nothing to be served.
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By me getting upset because we can't think clearly when we, our minds constrict
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when we start feeling pressure and stress.
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So I just got creative. How can we make this work?
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Well, I'd already sent her the slide deck. And so I said, I can use my phone
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without wifi connection, get data and just, you know, have her manage my slides.
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And that's exactly what we did. And so there's always a way if we allow ourselves to stay calm.
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And I find that that has served me incredibly well.
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I don't get angry very often because I just look at what price am I going to pay if I go there.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. How is it going to serve me versus viewing the
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situation of how is this working for me?
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I think too often it's kind of parallel with that fixed mindset and the growth
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mindset is this idea of victim and owner.
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If I feel like things are happening to me, then I lose my sense of choice and
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ability to control myself and my own reactions in a given situation.
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Whereas if I take the owner mindset, it's like, okay, so here's the situation.
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I can't change it. Why am I going to curse at it or get frustrated by it?
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Instead, say, how can I work with this? What can I create from this? Yeah.
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The way you're speaking about that, you mentioned the left brain,
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right brain kind of orientation that you have and you like to work from.
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I'm very much the same way.
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Maybe it's the work that we do. We've got to talk to a very broad,
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diverse population of people in the services and products we provide them.
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And so we have to sort of be able to think from different perspectives.
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My point to that is the way you were talking about that calmness,
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that equanimity is something that I think can be.
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Is approached by a person very pragmatically through prudence of,
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you know, kind of the stoic approach of like, is this doing me any good?
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I can't control what happens to me, I can only control how I responded to it.
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And that's a very kind of traditionally thought of as a very pragmatic sort of approach.
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And I'm a big fan of stoicism in my own operating system and advocate it strongly for a lot of people.
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But you can also get kind of more into spiritual and almost esoteric approach
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to that for those who orient to the world that way.
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And that concept of equanimity, especially within Buddhism, I happen to be taking
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a Sharon Salzberg course right now on equanimity.
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And the lessons being taught in that are coming from kind of a spiritual type
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of place, if you will, and more esoteric sort of place.
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But that through line is constant, No matter which way you approach it,
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from pragmatism or kind of more internal, esoteric work on yourself,
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there's such a power to equanimity and calmness and maintaining composure.
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And remind me, I was fortunate enough to get an advanced copy of that Grow Strong
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character, which I was very grateful to be. Got it right here.
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There it is. Early release copy.
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Loved it and strongly recommend it for all of our listeners.
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And I don't recall, is equanimity kind of touched on or that calmness in there? Composure.
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Composure. Composure is one of the character strengths.
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Yeah, that's listed as one for self. Oh, yeah, there it is. I got a copy in
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front of me here. There it is. Composure.
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Number 11 on building a stronger self.
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That resource by the way is
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a very easy read not like
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dumbed down easy but easy in
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terms of its digestibility its relatability and
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so again just a shout out for that it's a terrific almost primer for the for
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the like you said the three categories on building a stronger self stronger
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relationships and a stronger work ethic i i love the way you guys have have
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broken that And I know it's Danny's book, but look,
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you guys have been working together for three decades.
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I'm sure you're of one mind in some ways. Yeah, I always have input into it.
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He's the one who just loves to write.
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That is who he is. Yeah. He is a writer by nature.
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And that's not my main calling.
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I'm a people person. I love being out there, being on the podcast and having
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my own podcast and having conversations with folks and writing.
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Just in terms of the structure, thank you for affirming that.
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He opens every chapter with a personal story that I think is very relatable.
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So many of the situations he has faced, we've all been in some kind of situation like that.
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And then giving a simple, clear definition of what is it we mean by composure,
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by self-discipline, by patience, by integrity, and then why that's important.
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Important and then looking at how can
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we make this real for us in our lives so giving
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very specific examples of
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ways you can practice this because with any
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skill whether it's a communication skill a
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character skill or a sports skill or
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a musical skill it's that practice practice practice so we We rewire our brain
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and that earlier way we did the thing gets set aside because now we've wired
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a stronger pathway that it becomes our more natural automatic way of doing things.
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But it does require the repetitions over time to form those strong circuits.
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Oh gosh, I have so much to say about that. The first one is the way you described
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how the book is written, kind of the structure and the format of it.
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There's a story, there's a definition, there's why this is important and what
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this looks like in the wild.
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I want all of our listeners, anybody who's a leader in any organization.
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Who forms their organizational values and my clients bear with me,
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you've heard this spiel from me numerous times, finding a way to communicate
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your organization's values in that way.
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A lot of values, you know, end up kind of on the corkboard in the break room
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and become these platitudes that everybody just forgets about,
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but bringing them alive with a story,
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something that connects to our humanity, a proper definition,
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because everybody might define responsibility or composure or any of those 36
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different character traits or your values.
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They may sort of bring their own definition to what that is.
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So we need a common definition.
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And then how will you recognize this in the wild? What would that look like?
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And so I just want to encourage all listeners, all leaders who want to see their team embody the values,
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apply the structure you'll find in that Grow Strong Character book to how you
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position your values to your team.
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I found in my work with clients for that to be kind of the game changer where
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values go beyond just sort of this compulsory document that we have to create
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because somebody told us we did.
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Rather they become the operating system for how our team leads you know their
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conduct in their lives yes.
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I love that you brought up values because one of the things that hit us,
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Dan, after we had created all the content, this new program was,
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oh my gosh, this program can serve as a way for people to grow themselves into
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the values that the company has adopted.
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Because so many of the elements that are built into our program,
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that are built into this book, like integrity, responsibility.
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Accountability, are often values that companies adopt.
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But what do they do to actually help people learn how to be those things? Exactly.
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And this is just the perfect alignment, in my opinion,
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to imagine if a company decided to get a copy of the book or get our program
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for lots of people in the company,
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and they They are rallying around certain of the character skills because they're
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tied into the values that the company has been promoting.
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And so they could get very creative about, all right, so integrity,
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just as an example, that's commonly a value among all companies.
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So what does that really mean for us?
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And what does that look like? And so complementing what we provide with bringing
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it to life in specific situations where people are interacting with each other
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inside the company or with clients and customers outside the company,
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you know, who are we in the world?
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And so that is, as individuals collectively,
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as we strengthen those specific values, then as a company we get stronger displaying
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those values in how we are, who we are in the world.
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Right. Oh my gosh. So well put. Okay.
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I'm going to get a little esoteric here and hopefully you and our listeners can follow here.
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But I feel like something that's just on my mind these days is the overlap and
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the difference, the compare and contrast between how we're being and what we're doing.
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And the way you're describing that, it's almost like its own flywheel.
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It's a chicken an egg bit of an issue, but what we're doing reflects who we
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are and how we're being in the world just as much as how we're being and who
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we are shows up in our actions, right?
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It's kind of this perpetual cycle and a lift of either of those.
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One mechanism, if you will, contributes to the other.
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As you do, who am I going to create myself as today? How am I going to show up?
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That's about being. That's who you're going to be.
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Your actions, of course, are going to reflect that. And by the same token,
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you can make a tactical decision to say, I'm going to thank 10 people today for anything,
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something, some contribution that they've made, but I'm going to show my gratitude to 10 people today.
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That's a concrete, specific, practical, tactical action that one can take.
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And that contributes to who you're being as a gracious, grateful,
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appreciative, respected person as well, right? It's almost this flywheel of
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behavior that I think people sometimes think of as a little bit more binary.
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I'll have clients ask me, what do I need to do between now and our next call?
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And more than once, they've heard back from me, let me toss that back as a question to you.
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Who are you going to be for the next two weeks until we talk again?
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And that generally lets them answer their own question. Okay,
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what am I going to do between our calls?
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And if I pose it to them you tell me who you're going to be and let's go from there,
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I just love that, Dan. You are so right. I like to say I create my to-be list
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before I get into my to-do list. I love that.
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Because who I'm being affects how I do what I'm going to do. Yeah.
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We all have things we don't enjoy doing as much in our work.
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There's going to be those. And if I think of it as, I dread doing this,
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or this is going to be hard, if I come to it with that attitude,
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then I'm going to have some negative feelings as I'm doing it. It might be resentment.
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It can be an undercurrent that I'm not even conscious of, but I am bringing
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a lack of enjoyment to it because of how I've been thinking about it.
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And so for me, I love that you asked them, who are you going to be?
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Because that impacts what we do and how we do it.
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They are intertwined. But to me, looking at what place do I want to come from
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before I try to go somewhere,
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it's so much more effective if I take that. It doesn't have to require a lot of time.
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It's just thinking for a moment. For me, writing it out, speaking it has great powers.
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But for somebody else, maybe just thinking it is enough.
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But whatever it is, give some thought so you don't get into this automatic mode
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of jumping into do, do, do.
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And I have to say, I have been a heavy doer over my life. It's a high-achieving
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person, always driven to give my best, do my best.
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But I'm so much more effective when I take those few minutes to think about who am I going to be.
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It just opens up a whole new world.
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And it's something I have practiced enough time now that I know the benefits.
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And I'm not going to skip that step because it's an important part of my daily
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routine to help me get off on the right foot. And so I guess that's the question
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for each person to think about.
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What must I do for myself to make sure I show up the way I want to be today
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and not react to what happens?
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That ability to respond versus react, I think, is part of the power of creating yourself first.
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Yeah, a response is a more thoughtful, intentional response.
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And I have to use the word response. It's more thoughtful and intentional than a reaction.
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Reaction's almost the amygdala taking over and sort of just like,
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it's a panic response almost.
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Whereas a proper response, take some thought, consideration,
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taking a breath, a moment, counting to three, 10, whatever you need to count to. too.
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And I'll emphasize and just kind of take it a step further.
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The peace and the equanimity and the balance and composure, as we were talking
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about before, that it brings to you, don't think for a moment that those ripple
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effects aren't felt by everybody around you.
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So not only are you improving your own experience by going into the day being
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who you want to be and with the right attitude and all of that,
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but everybody around you is going to feel the effects of that.
442
00:34:47,094 --> 00:34:50,794
So you You get a more pleasant experience. They get a more pleasant experience, more fulfilling.
443
00:34:51,454 --> 00:34:55,934
Everybody wins, huh? Oh, and guess what else I just thought of?
444
00:34:55,974 --> 00:34:57,734
This will be fun to talk about. Cool.
445
00:34:57,954 --> 00:35:01,554
We create other people too. How so?
446
00:35:02,754 --> 00:35:09,974
Well, because our interactions with them, we have drawn conclusions about them
447
00:35:09,974 --> 00:35:14,414
or we make assumptions about them that may have no basis in reality.
448
00:35:14,474 --> 00:35:24,274
Right, other than our story. We can decide, well, this person is negative, they're picky.
449
00:35:24,794 --> 00:35:33,054
Whatever it is that we judge them for, we are creating that in our own minds to be true about them.
450
00:35:33,214 --> 00:35:37,834
And yet, there's so much more to that person than we even know.
451
00:35:37,834 --> 00:35:45,694
And so if we choose to, we can create other people in our minds in a positive
452
00:35:45,694 --> 00:35:49,414
way and change the dynamic.
453
00:35:49,774 --> 00:35:54,514
You were so right about, yes, if we show up being who we want to be,
454
00:35:54,794 --> 00:36:02,574
that has a big impact on others, but so does creating them in a positive way in our minds.
455
00:36:03,534 --> 00:36:07,674
Yeah. And so if we can bring that sense of appreciation,
456
00:36:07,894 --> 00:36:15,434
of honoring others just because they're another human being and let go of some
457
00:36:15,434 --> 00:36:21,274
of the, and I'll use the word judgments because we do this so easily and so quickly.
458
00:36:21,274 --> 00:36:28,174
Judge others based on not just appearance but you know labeling them this person
459
00:36:28,174 --> 00:36:33,634
is inconsiderate or you know they're they're rude they interrupt all these things
460
00:36:33,634 --> 00:36:40,914
that we say that create that person to us in our own minds.
461
00:36:42,749 --> 00:36:45,609
May not exist in the world except in our
462
00:36:45,609 --> 00:36:48,529
own story yeah you know there
463
00:36:48,529 --> 00:36:52,849
are these rare individuals that are so narcissistic
464
00:36:52,849 --> 00:36:59,089
you know wrapped up in themselves that aren't capable of hearing or changing
465
00:36:59,089 --> 00:37:07,729
that's rare it is in most situations we attribute negative intent you know negative
466
00:37:07,729 --> 00:37:12,729
motivation to people that may not be real or true.
467
00:37:12,929 --> 00:37:17,969
And I think when we, and I love that word generous, when we can be generous
468
00:37:17,969 --> 00:37:21,449
with others, they feel that difference.
469
00:37:21,569 --> 00:37:23,429
They feel that from us.
470
00:37:23,569 --> 00:37:26,689
And one of my favorite books,
471
00:37:26,869 --> 00:37:30,889
The Power of Awareness by Neville Goddard, it's
472
00:37:30,889 --> 00:37:34,389
kind of a a classic and he's the
473
00:37:34,389 --> 00:37:37,469
whole theme of it is is amazing in terms
474
00:37:37,469 --> 00:37:40,409
of your ability to visualize what you want
475
00:37:40,409 --> 00:37:43,269
one of the most compelling and memorable
476
00:37:43,269 --> 00:37:52,129
chapters for me was this very idea of in our minds we create somebody else so
477
00:37:52,129 --> 00:37:59,289
there was a woman who was a seamstress on broadway for plays And she was working
478
00:37:59,289 --> 00:38:01,069
with this, I think it was a director.
479
00:38:01,289 --> 00:38:04,969
That was just, she said, very critical of her.
480
00:38:05,129 --> 00:38:10,169
He just never thought she did anything right. And she would find herself on
481
00:38:10,169 --> 00:38:13,989
the way to work just creating arguments with him in her mind.
482
00:38:14,029 --> 00:38:15,709
If he says this, I'm going to say this.
483
00:38:16,109 --> 00:38:20,809
Just, you know, building up all this negativity. Just spinning out, yeah. Yeah.
484
00:38:21,509 --> 00:38:27,309
And so Neville Goddard says to her, all right, you're going to do something different.
485
00:38:28,391 --> 00:38:34,591
I want you to start using your imagination in a positive way and start imagining
486
00:38:34,591 --> 00:38:40,491
him praising your work and thanking you for doing such a good job.
487
00:38:40,611 --> 00:38:45,851
And just focus on these positive interactions that you will have.
488
00:38:46,971 --> 00:38:52,331
And so she started doing that in her free time, at night, whatever.
489
00:38:53,311 --> 00:38:58,591
And do you know the relationship changed over time? And it was because she changed.
490
00:38:58,911 --> 00:39:06,311
She started viewing him differently. She was bringing a whole different energy to their interactions.
491
00:39:06,931 --> 00:39:11,031
And he could sense that. You know, people feel our energy.
492
00:39:11,131 --> 00:39:15,491
And this is not woo-woo. We can tell when there's a negative vibe in a room. Oh, yeah.
493
00:39:45,091 --> 00:39:46,851
Than we think because we tend to label ourselves, we tend to label others,
494
00:39:46,991 --> 00:39:53,231
and it puts us in boxes and limits us in thinking about what's possible.
495
00:39:53,951 --> 00:40:00,051
What can we do to build something here instead of picking at each other?
496
00:40:00,191 --> 00:40:06,711
Yeah. I love the way you put that. I'm telling you, the show notes are going to be extensive here.
497
00:40:06,851 --> 00:40:10,131
I'm going to link to that. I actually have not read that book,
498
00:40:10,191 --> 00:40:13,331
Power of Awareness by Neville Goddard. I'll put that in the show notes as well,
499
00:40:13,331 --> 00:40:14,191
just on your recommendation.
500
00:40:15,031 --> 00:40:18,191
And to remind me to make sure I pick it up for my reading list,
501
00:40:18,311 --> 00:40:20,911
terrific insight on that one.
502
00:40:22,738 --> 00:40:28,798
I'll share a different one with you that has also very positive impact on someone else. Oh, please.
503
00:40:28,938 --> 00:40:35,598
This I learned from Dan Sullivan, who is the CEO of Strategic Coach. Strategic Coach, yeah.
504
00:40:35,838 --> 00:40:40,778
He and Joe Polish, they may still have this podcast, 10X Talk,
505
00:40:41,078 --> 00:40:45,138
but I probably heard this podcast episode 10 years ago.
506
00:40:45,358 --> 00:40:52,238
Oh, my gosh. And it struck me so deeply that it's just a part of what I bring
507
00:40:52,238 --> 00:40:54,178
to relationships now, too.
508
00:40:54,318 --> 00:41:00,518
What Dan was saying is that he's fascinated by words and the word appreciate.
509
00:41:01,258 --> 00:41:07,338
He was checking this huge dictionary that he has, and it has two common meanings.
510
00:41:07,338 --> 00:41:14,078
One of them we think of as appreciate in value the way real estate might go
511
00:41:14,078 --> 00:41:16,578
up or gold or stocks, we hope.
512
00:41:17,038 --> 00:41:19,918
So it's that increasing in value. you.
513
00:41:20,098 --> 00:41:27,158
Another though is when, especially in battle, there would be scouts sent out
514
00:41:27,158 --> 00:41:32,578
to appreciate what the landscape was or what the enemy was doing.
515
00:41:32,918 --> 00:41:39,798
So appreciate as in realizing the importance of what's going on.
516
00:41:39,958 --> 00:41:45,058
Got it. And so what Dan did is he started looking at that in terms of other
517
00:41:45,058 --> 00:41:47,858
people and appreciating them.
518
00:41:48,438 --> 00:41:54,438
And so what he started doing, and this is something I don't do in every conversation,
519
00:41:54,598 --> 00:41:57,478
but I do it almost automatically now,
520
00:41:57,658 --> 00:42:02,478
is he would take a pencil and paper and before he had a meeting with someone,
521
00:42:02,518 --> 00:42:07,878
he would write down, what are eight or 10 things that I really value about this person?
522
00:42:08,956 --> 00:42:14,776
And so it was his way of preparing for that conversation so that when they walked
523
00:42:14,776 --> 00:42:19,376
in the door, he had this attitude of appreciation for them.
524
00:42:19,416 --> 00:42:24,656
The point of doing that was not to recite to the person the things he valued.
525
00:42:24,676 --> 00:42:26,016
Right, that gets gratuitous.
526
00:42:26,156 --> 00:42:32,356
It was to help him realize their importance to him and their value.
527
00:42:32,356 --> 00:42:34,996
Value so as a human being as a
528
00:42:34,996 --> 00:42:38,036
person as a contributor in his company or a client
529
00:42:38,036 --> 00:42:41,676
or whatever the relationship was it helped
530
00:42:41,676 --> 00:42:44,776
him elevate them the beauty of doing
531
00:42:44,776 --> 00:42:48,516
that and to me this is where it's just so powerful is
532
00:42:48,516 --> 00:42:54,476
it not only helps you appreciate that person the way you interact with them
533
00:42:54,476 --> 00:43:01,576
causes them to value themselves more highly as a result of talking to you and
534
00:43:01,576 --> 00:43:05,756
they rise to Because you praised them, but because of how you treated them,
535
00:43:05,876 --> 00:43:09,116
how you spoke with them, who you were being,
536
00:43:09,376 --> 00:43:12,296
in other words, with them in that moment.
537
00:43:12,396 --> 00:43:19,316
And so what a gift that is to be able to help someone else elevate their opinion of themselves.
538
00:43:19,796 --> 00:43:26,816
Right. So they feel more valuable to the world, but also in their own minds.
539
00:43:27,056 --> 00:43:31,436
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's so powerful. I almost just want to let that sit for a minute.
540
00:43:32,276 --> 00:43:40,016
I know. You know, it's worth pondering because we all have that capability to
541
00:43:40,016 --> 00:43:42,236
speak possibility into others,
542
00:43:42,496 --> 00:43:50,296
to speak in a way that helps them feel, and I'll use this word because we don't
543
00:43:50,296 --> 00:43:53,836
hear it in the workplace very often, but to help them feel cherished.
544
00:43:54,636 --> 00:43:59,936
We all want to know we matter. You know, the way you introduced me today,
545
00:44:00,096 --> 00:44:06,876
Dan, helped me feel cherished because you were so affirming of who I am.
546
00:44:07,276 --> 00:44:13,336
That kind of gift is something we have the ability to give others every day,
547
00:44:13,536 --> 00:44:18,616
whether it's our spouse, you know, our children, our parents,
548
00:44:18,996 --> 00:44:21,816
you know, our co-workers. Yeah, no matter what our role.
549
00:44:22,216 --> 00:44:29,796
Yeah, we have that ability, but it's what we're choosing to look at and see and focus on.
550
00:44:30,336 --> 00:44:36,236
If we're focused on their shortcomings, which we all have, then that's what
551
00:44:36,236 --> 00:44:42,056
we're going to be seeing, and that's what we're going to typically reflect back to them.
552
00:44:42,196 --> 00:44:45,636
Well, what if we were looking for the gold instead? Yeah.
553
00:44:46,648 --> 00:44:52,428
I would challenge our listeners to take a minute. Go ahead and feel free to pause. Come right back.
554
00:44:52,768 --> 00:44:56,948
Take a minute and reflect on when that has actually shown up for you.
555
00:44:57,048 --> 00:45:02,268
I can, it'd be oversharing, but I could think of probably three occasions or
556
00:45:02,268 --> 00:45:09,068
three relationships, rather, where when I've adjusted my perspective about that
557
00:45:09,068 --> 00:45:11,948
relationship and shown up, as you were describing,
558
00:45:12,308 --> 00:45:15,648
it's literally transformed the relationship with the person.
559
00:45:15,648 --> 00:45:17,948
I mean, just off the top of my head, I can think of some.
560
00:45:18,028 --> 00:45:22,848
I'll bet our listeners, like, think of the power that's in that shift in perspective
561
00:45:22,848 --> 00:45:25,228
and where else that could show up in your life.
562
00:45:25,488 --> 00:45:28,068
So there's a little challenge for you, listeners.
563
00:45:29,208 --> 00:45:35,088
See where it's worked and go and reapply that principle to maybe some other
564
00:45:35,088 --> 00:45:37,968
contexts in your life, because that's super powerful.
565
00:45:38,728 --> 00:45:43,808
Meredith, you talked about something in, prior to this podcast,
566
00:45:43,928 --> 00:45:47,848
you shared with me kind of a document, sort of a little origin story of Meredith
567
00:45:47,848 --> 00:45:50,528
Bell, which I really appreciate. I thought it was so lovely.
568
00:45:50,648 --> 00:45:53,508
I'd love to share it with everybody, but it's probably not appropriate in the
569
00:45:53,508 --> 00:45:55,288
context of the show notes.
570
00:45:55,368 --> 00:45:59,068
But it was just very illuminating about who you are. The point of this is,
571
00:45:59,168 --> 00:46:05,168
at one point in the story, you mentioned that at one point in your professional
572
00:46:05,168 --> 00:46:09,228
journey, before you began working with Denny, you found it to be lonely.
573
00:46:09,948 --> 00:46:13,688
And it's a topic that rarely comes up organically with my clients.
574
00:46:13,908 --> 00:46:19,288
But I do find that whenever I ask an explicit question about it of the people
575
00:46:19,288 --> 00:46:23,908
I get to work with, I have to say that loneliness and leadership is almost universal.
576
00:46:25,088 --> 00:46:31,828
And I wanted to bring that up because in that we as leaders want to provide that for our team,
577
00:46:31,988 --> 00:46:38,468
it's tough for us to get that as leaders because we don't necessarily have somebody
578
00:46:38,468 --> 00:46:43,008
that we directly report to that can help us with that as well.
579
00:46:43,268 --> 00:46:44,448
Do you have any thoughts about that?
580
00:46:45,808 --> 00:46:53,748
Yeah, I think it requires initiative, another character skill to reach out to
581
00:46:53,748 --> 00:46:58,168
find a tribe that you can connect with.
582
00:46:58,288 --> 00:47:03,868
It could be one other person, it could be a group, but there are so many online
583
00:47:03,868 --> 00:47:07,448
groups now that you can join or in-person groups.
584
00:47:07,668 --> 00:47:15,248
I think when you feel that loneliness, it's recognizing this is a natural thing that happens.
585
00:47:16,068 --> 00:47:18,268
It isn't because there's anything wrong with me.
586
00:47:19,363 --> 00:47:23,843
You know, so we don't get critical and withdraw even more and think,
587
00:47:23,943 --> 00:47:27,023
oh, I don't deserve to be with other people.
588
00:47:27,243 --> 00:47:30,783
You know, all these thoughts that can go through our head.
589
00:47:30,923 --> 00:47:38,843
Instead, I am seeking to connect with other people who are walking in my shoes,
590
00:47:39,043 --> 00:47:42,343
you know, maybe in another company or in a different division.
591
00:47:42,343 --> 00:47:49,203
Or where could I find other people who would understand what I'm experiencing
592
00:47:49,203 --> 00:47:53,243
right now and could offer support, encouragement, accountability,
593
00:47:53,763 --> 00:47:56,943
whatever it is that I need to help?
594
00:47:56,943 --> 00:48:03,783
I mean, having a coach like you is one option for folks that are,
595
00:48:03,943 --> 00:48:09,263
it depends where the, I guess the struggle is, what issue are they dealing with?
596
00:48:09,263 --> 00:48:17,823
But if they feel isolated and they simply need some colleagues or peers in similar
597
00:48:17,823 --> 00:48:24,743
kinds of roles that could bounce ideas off with and just share experiences,
598
00:48:25,063 --> 00:48:28,303
that to me is a really important aspect. Don't go it alone.
599
00:48:28,643 --> 00:48:34,443
Yeah. There's no need to try to tough it up and do that. And I know over the
600
00:48:34,443 --> 00:48:39,783
years with Paula and Denny and me, we've really been amazing supports for each
601
00:48:39,783 --> 00:48:42,643
other and with each other over time.
602
00:48:42,923 --> 00:48:46,023
And it takes trust. That's the key.
603
00:48:46,763 --> 00:48:49,843
You need to trust the other person. They need to trust you.
604
00:48:50,323 --> 00:48:56,903
And so how quickly are you able to build trust with someone or a group that
605
00:48:56,903 --> 00:48:59,943
you would like to share experiences with?
606
00:48:59,943 --> 00:49:05,423
Without the trust, you won't be able to share the real stuff and your efforts
607
00:49:05,423 --> 00:49:11,983
to be seen and understood and sort of mitigate that loneliness are going to fall pretty flat.
608
00:49:13,043 --> 00:49:17,623
Yeah, because I don't know. I think just inherently built in leadership,
609
00:49:17,883 --> 00:49:23,903
there is a component of potential loneliness that a lot of folks can feel out
610
00:49:23,903 --> 00:49:26,143
there. So just a few words.
611
00:49:26,263 --> 00:49:31,843
I love what you said. I think peer groups, masterminds, roundtables,
612
00:49:31,863 --> 00:49:36,083
whatever you want to call it, but getting together and assembling a group,
613
00:49:36,223 --> 00:49:38,483
that's kind of on my roadmap for 2024,
614
00:49:38,823 --> 00:49:44,403
maybe 2025, is putting something like that together, because I see it so prevalent with leaders.
615
00:49:44,543 --> 00:49:46,743
And for those folks who are.
616
00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:51,420
As you were describing, we want to go and help fill others' cups.
617
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:53,300
It's really hard to do when ours is empty.
618
00:49:53,820 --> 00:49:57,860
And so it's just so vital to make sure that you're reaching out and finding
619
00:49:57,860 --> 00:49:59,180
the people that will fill your cup.
620
00:50:00,140 --> 00:50:04,980
And go through the exercises you described, you know, every morning or at some
621
00:50:04,980 --> 00:50:09,360
point in the day, being mindful of how you want to be and how you want to show up.
622
00:50:09,660 --> 00:50:13,220
But we do. We need that affirmation from others. Yeah.
623
00:50:13,340 --> 00:50:19,820
And I think there's also the possibility, or any listener who's a leader with
624
00:50:19,820 --> 00:50:25,580
a group of people on a team that you're working with, I think that they can
625
00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:27,840
serve as a support as well.
626
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:33,140
Because I think sometimes leaders put pressure on themselves to be a certain
627
00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:40,500
way and be the answer person and, you know, not show what they think of as weakness
628
00:50:40,500 --> 00:50:42,560
by being vulnerable and open.
629
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:48,820
And instead, be willing to say, hey, I'd really appreciate your help on this.
630
00:50:48,980 --> 00:50:52,660
Because, you know, most people love to be of help to other people.
631
00:50:52,660 --> 00:50:59,300
And so if the members of your team feel that you're turning to them for some answers,
632
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:05,460
some insights, because they all have them, it's a matter of being asked that
633
00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:08,040
you show the interest, the curiosity.
634
00:51:08,460 --> 00:51:13,720
I would love to know what you do, when, and whatever the issue might be.
635
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:22,160
And it does not diminish the leader's position in the eyes of their people.
636
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,260
In fact, it enhances it. It's like when we do something wrong.
637
00:51:25,460 --> 00:51:29,040
Yeah. If we made a mistake and we're not willing to apologize.
638
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:31,240
Then it builds up resentment.
639
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:37,460
Instead of looking weak, which we often are afraid of doing when we admit we're wrong. Yeah.
640
00:51:38,115 --> 00:51:44,235
And apologize and try to make it right, people already know we're not perfect, you know?
641
00:51:44,375 --> 00:51:47,215
Many do, no matter how much you try and help it.
642
00:51:47,895 --> 00:51:53,215
Yeah, to try to put up this facade of, you know, I've got it all together,
643
00:51:53,515 --> 00:52:02,175
it builds barriers, it creates separation instead of creating bonds and connection
644
00:52:02,175 --> 00:52:05,715
that I think strengthen a team and it's performance.
645
00:52:06,015 --> 00:52:11,095
Obviously, you know, in business, our teams need to perform at a high level
646
00:52:11,095 --> 00:52:14,575
to accomplish the audacious goals that we set. Of course.
647
00:52:14,795 --> 00:52:19,795
And so when we step back and ask ourselves, what can I do to create an environment
648
00:52:19,795 --> 00:52:22,215
where people want to give their best?
649
00:52:22,615 --> 00:52:30,675
Part of it is this openness and open exchange between the leaders and the teams,
650
00:52:30,735 --> 00:52:36,915
this mutual respect that That we develop and have for each other so we actually
651
00:52:36,915 --> 00:52:38,175
have each other's backs.
652
00:52:38,375 --> 00:52:43,655
Yeah, yeah. When you have that sense that the people around you are there with
653
00:52:43,655 --> 00:52:49,735
you and support you instead of not being confident that they're going to not
654
00:52:49,735 --> 00:52:51,435
talk about you behind your back. Yeah.
655
00:52:51,995 --> 00:52:55,335
That's a whole different feel when you come into the workplace.
656
00:52:55,735 --> 00:53:02,575
Yeah. And in terms of your own spirit and your own willingness to put forth
657
00:53:02,575 --> 00:53:05,435
your best work. Yeah. Boy, I couldn't agree more.
658
00:53:05,535 --> 00:53:10,915
I'll even sharpen the pencil on that and identify the requirement of some level
659
00:53:10,915 --> 00:53:15,995
of healthy vulnerability in the relationships between you and your team as a
660
00:53:15,995 --> 00:53:17,835
leader. And again, healthy vulnerability.
661
00:53:19,635 --> 00:53:22,315
It's easy to kind of get a little squishy on the boundaries there,
662
00:53:22,355 --> 00:53:23,695
I think, in a professional context.
663
00:53:23,715 --> 00:53:30,675
So making sure that it remains in a professionally couched sort of context. Yeah.
664
00:53:31,247 --> 00:53:36,447
Being able to own up. I think humility is one of the character traits that we
665
00:53:36,447 --> 00:53:44,507
keep kind of going back to, to be able to own your stuff and allow people to see your humanness.
666
00:53:44,527 --> 00:53:46,967
And this has to be reciprocal.
667
00:53:47,267 --> 00:53:53,007
You can see and appreciate and accept and forgive them in their humanness and
668
00:53:53,007 --> 00:53:54,547
their mistakes that they may make.
669
00:53:54,607 --> 00:54:00,547
And when that goes both ways, I mean, think of the people in your life who you
670
00:54:00,547 --> 00:54:02,647
have the strongest bonds of trust with.
671
00:54:03,107 --> 00:54:06,627
I would challenge you, Meredith, or anybody else.
672
00:54:07,467 --> 00:54:11,947
I do my own thinking about this. And the people who I have the strongest bonds
673
00:54:11,947 --> 00:54:18,467
with, who I have the most real relationships with, they've seen me not so great.
674
00:54:18,627 --> 00:54:22,367
They've seen me in positions where I've messed up.
675
00:54:22,487 --> 00:54:29,427
Some of them have seen me straight up completely crash myself into a ditch and
676
00:54:29,427 --> 00:54:32,767
still love me, not just in spite of, but sometimes even because of.
677
00:54:33,007 --> 00:54:36,907
Those are the folks I have the strongest, most real bonds with,
678
00:54:37,027 --> 00:54:43,347
are the ones who we've shared vulnerabilities and known that there was a safe
679
00:54:43,347 --> 00:54:44,267
space to be able to do that.
680
00:54:44,787 --> 00:54:46,967
Yeah. Oh, it's so true.
681
00:54:47,767 --> 00:54:51,047
It's so true. And I mean, I think about Paul and Denny and me.
682
00:54:52,042 --> 00:54:57,542
This has not been, you know, an error-free relationship.
683
00:54:58,442 --> 00:55:01,322
You know, we've had our ups and downs. Yeah.
684
00:55:01,562 --> 00:55:06,642
But I think what has helped us over the years, and it's true for a good marriage
685
00:55:06,642 --> 00:55:11,282
or a good friendship, is that unshakable commitment to each other.
686
00:55:11,882 --> 00:55:17,262
That we can work through this no matter what. Oh, an unshakable commitment to each other.
687
00:55:17,382 --> 00:55:21,222
I love the way you said that. Well, when you think about it,
688
00:55:21,262 --> 00:55:27,262
so you say, you know, breaking up is not something we even consider, right?
689
00:55:27,362 --> 00:55:31,442
It's not in the cards. So as hard as it may be to have the conversation about
690
00:55:31,442 --> 00:55:36,842
whatever the conflict or, you know, tension is between us, we're going to do
691
00:55:36,842 --> 00:55:39,662
it. We share enough about each other.
692
00:55:39,782 --> 00:55:45,402
And I think that's where it requires that commitment, which is another character scale.
693
00:55:45,462 --> 00:55:52,062
That willingness to not just say I'm committed, but then to demonstrate you're committed over time.
694
00:55:52,162 --> 00:55:54,962
You don't bail when the going gets rough.
695
00:55:55,182 --> 00:56:01,082
You figure out what are we going to do? And I think it's all based on this foundation
696
00:56:01,082 --> 00:56:05,182
of trust, respect, and honestly, love.
697
00:56:05,342 --> 00:56:12,182
You have to really deeply care about the other person to follow through with
698
00:56:12,182 --> 00:56:15,042
doing what's tough, even in the moment.
699
00:56:15,242 --> 00:56:19,562
Yeah. Because I don't want to give the impression that I've got it all together.
700
00:56:19,602 --> 00:56:24,422
I'm still learning and growing. But I've learned a lot over the years,
701
00:56:24,482 --> 00:56:30,782
so I'm at a place where I don't question my value, let's say.
702
00:56:30,962 --> 00:56:32,842
Am I worthy? Yes, I am worthy.
703
00:56:34,902 --> 00:56:41,722
There's fundamental things that I've established for myself, but I still have doubts.
704
00:56:41,742 --> 00:56:47,282
I still question, is this the right thing? And it's just trusting my intuition
705
00:56:47,282 --> 00:56:51,262
and having that commitment to figure out.
706
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:57,850
Because I know innately we each have the capability to work through whatever
707
00:56:57,850 --> 00:57:00,470
life throws at us as a challenge.
708
00:57:00,470 --> 00:57:05,350
Yeah, 100%. And I know one of the strengths of what you guys work on at GSL
709
00:57:05,350 --> 00:57:07,590
is in communication and communication skills.
710
00:57:07,790 --> 00:57:14,370
I would almost position that as like a vehicle for showing all those things
711
00:57:14,370 --> 00:57:17,950
you just mentioned a moment ago, the respect, the compassion, the commitment.
712
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:22,350
I feel like communication, maybe you see it differently. Communication almost
713
00:57:22,350 --> 00:57:25,330
feels like the vehicle for the conveyance of all of that stuff.
714
00:57:25,810 --> 00:57:29,450
Right? Would you put it differently? Yeah, I love that.
715
00:57:29,650 --> 00:57:33,690
And that's why we're excited to have the character tied in with communication
716
00:57:33,690 --> 00:57:38,490
because there's so much, you know, intertwining of those.
717
00:57:38,590 --> 00:57:42,190
Right, right. None of these are mutually exclusive. No, no.
718
00:57:42,670 --> 00:57:47,930
When you think of empathy as a character skill, the ability to really,
719
00:57:47,970 --> 00:57:53,390
you know, stand in another person's shoes and really understand what they're
720
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:57,650
experiencing, that to me is so related to listening.
721
00:57:57,650 --> 00:58:01,630
Listening because in order to be empathetic with
722
00:58:01,630 --> 00:58:04,950
someone we have to be able to hear them we have
723
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:07,990
to be curious we have to be willing to not
724
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:11,010
put in our opinion our judgments our advice
725
00:58:11,010 --> 00:58:17,670
and just be with that person in that moment yeah and hear them so yeah there's
726
00:58:17,670 --> 00:58:24,650
we separate them just as a way to you know talk about them discreetly but the
727
00:58:24,650 --> 00:58:28,050
reality is everything is connected. Yeah. Yeah.
728
00:58:29,090 --> 00:58:34,330
With an emphasis on communication, where are some places that you see organizationally,
729
00:58:34,330 --> 00:58:37,450
I'm kind of getting into the nuts and bolts here of organizational communications.
730
00:58:37,890 --> 00:58:41,190
Where are some of the places that you see communication just go sideways?
731
00:58:41,490 --> 00:58:47,290
Some of the most common places and maybe follow that up with sort of a compound
732
00:58:47,290 --> 00:58:52,090
question here, follow that up with what are the most effective remedies to keep
733
00:58:52,090 --> 00:58:53,510
those things from going into a ditch?
734
00:58:54,536 --> 00:59:00,856
Oh, I've got so many that just popped into my head. So I'll go through as many as I can.
735
00:59:00,976 --> 00:59:06,936
So the first one I would say is listening because too often we think we're good
736
00:59:06,936 --> 00:59:08,796
listeners and we're not.
737
00:59:08,896 --> 00:59:13,256
We're distracted by exterior things going on around us.
738
00:59:13,376 --> 00:59:15,736
We're distracted by our own thoughts.
739
00:59:16,216 --> 00:59:23,936
And so for a person to give undivided attention to the individual in front of
740
00:59:23,936 --> 00:59:26,876
them is rare and cherished.
741
00:59:27,036 --> 00:59:32,236
I mean, that to me is one of the things, if you started just doing this one
742
00:59:32,236 --> 00:59:38,176
thing every day, is giving your full attention to the person who is speaking with you.
743
00:59:38,276 --> 00:59:42,996
Even if it's somebody you've worked with or lived with for a number of years
744
00:59:42,996 --> 00:59:47,996
and you think, oh, I've heard most of what they want, what they've said, baloney.
745
00:59:48,276 --> 00:59:53,696
If you look at them as, again, end, listening for the gold.
746
00:59:54,196 --> 00:59:57,596
It's amazing what can happen in that relationship.
747
00:59:57,776 --> 01:00:02,316
God, that's only been exacerbated with our devices that we have with us all the time. Absolutely.
748
01:00:02,696 --> 01:00:06,776
Putting the phones down, getting them out of sight.
749
01:00:07,296 --> 01:00:11,596
So that to me is one thing. If you're the leader and you have somebody that
750
01:00:11,596 --> 01:00:17,376
comes to talk to you and you're able to, in that moment, give them your attention,
751
01:00:17,696 --> 01:00:19,096
I think that's a key thing.
752
01:00:19,216 --> 01:00:23,216
Sometimes we pretend that we're giving them our attention, but we've got this
753
01:00:23,216 --> 01:00:28,396
other project we were just working on and that got interrupted and we're not fully with them.
754
01:00:28,556 --> 01:00:31,656
And so I think it's a part of respecting the other person.
755
01:00:31,696 --> 01:00:35,076
If somebody comes to you to talk about something and it's not a good time for
756
01:00:35,076 --> 01:00:38,556
you and you know you can't give them your full attention,
757
01:00:38,876 --> 01:00:44,496
then to just say, I need 10 minutes, I need an hour, whatever period of time
758
01:00:44,496 --> 01:00:49,736
it is, in order to be able to be fully with you when you have this conversation.
759
01:00:49,936 --> 01:00:53,736
Being honest with people, I think, is really critical.
760
01:00:53,936 --> 01:01:00,256
The other thing with listening is monitor how much you interrupt or finish people's sentences.
761
01:01:01,676 --> 01:01:05,956
And I'll give you a specific example, because Denny and Paula and I have run
762
01:01:05,956 --> 01:01:08,016
into this with each other over the years.
763
01:01:08,536 --> 01:01:12,256
Denny was the one that was probably the worst at it, and he would admit that
764
01:01:12,256 --> 01:01:13,796
himself, out of interrupting.
765
01:01:14,316 --> 01:01:19,596
And so we thought, all right, how can we help him improve in this area without
766
01:01:19,596 --> 01:01:21,856
jumping down his throat every time he does it?
767
01:01:22,036 --> 01:01:29,056
So we came up with, when we were in person or on video, just holding up our hand like a stop sign.
768
01:01:29,576 --> 01:01:34,076
And that would be a visual cue for him, oh, I was interrupting.
769
01:01:34,396 --> 01:01:38,806
But what the three of us do on a regular basis, especially when we're having
770
01:01:38,806 --> 01:01:42,246
creative conversations where one person says something and the other gets the
771
01:01:42,246 --> 01:01:46,006
idea and jumps in and we just say, I wasn't done yet.
772
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:51,480
Or, please let me finish. And, of course, the tone of voice you use is really
773
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,220
important in those moments. Isn't it? That's an unverbal word,
774
01:01:54,220 --> 01:01:55,440
yeah. Please let me finish.
775
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:03,660
I wasn't done yet. Then that kind of defeats the purpose of helping the person become more aware.
776
01:02:04,220 --> 01:02:08,480
Because what we're, and again, it's where am I coming from? I'm coming from
777
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:15,620
a place of helping this person understand how their current pattern of behavior
778
01:02:15,620 --> 01:02:18,980
is getting in the way of clear communication.
779
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:25,440
So having a conversation, let's say you've gotten a 360 feedback report or some
780
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,520
other feedback where somebody points out something you're doing that's creating a problem.
781
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:37,660
Well, we could get defensive and justify and explain it. And this gets into
782
01:02:37,660 --> 01:02:42,360
another area of communication where people get in trouble. It's this whole idea of receiving feedback.
783
01:02:43,140 --> 01:02:47,940
This is where, to me, humility comes in. If I recognize I'm not perfect,
784
01:02:48,140 --> 01:02:51,540
people know what I'm doing that's getting in the way.
785
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,020
So give it to me, right? Let me have it.
786
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,960
They're not always going to be delivering it in the best possible way, right?
787
01:03:00,060 --> 01:03:04,920
Most of us never learned how to give feedback appropriately or how to receive it.
788
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,580
But if I'm a leader and somebody is coming to me with a concern,
789
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:14,480
the best thing I can do is start listening and then after they are done,
790
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:19,920
say thank you and avoid getting into that defending, justifying,
791
01:03:19,980 --> 01:03:21,360
explaining the behavior.
792
01:03:21,900 --> 01:03:26,680
Here's why I did that and here's why I was right because that's where it's all coming from is our ego.
793
01:03:26,860 --> 01:03:32,860
I want to be right. And if we can set that aside and be a humble learner in
794
01:03:32,860 --> 01:03:39,040
that moment, and then apologize and say, I apologize or I'm sorry,
795
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:40,820
I had no idea I was doing that.
796
01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:44,120
Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention.
797
01:03:44,240 --> 01:03:48,660
And here's the magic part, is asking for their help.
798
01:03:49,648 --> 01:03:56,088
For you to get better. Boy, that's almost the cake, not the frosting. I love that one a lot.
799
01:03:56,328 --> 01:04:02,668
It is because that tells them, I'm taking what you said seriously and I want
800
01:04:02,668 --> 01:04:06,288
to engage you in my own growth and development.
801
01:04:06,848 --> 01:04:14,608
So when you see me do this and then you can get creative, what would be a way that you could help me?
802
01:04:14,768 --> 01:04:18,968
Maybe in a meeting, you tend to call on certain people and ignore others.
803
01:04:19,648 --> 01:04:23,948
So in a meeting, you could have this person say, hey, we haven't heard from Sue yet.
804
01:04:24,248 --> 01:04:29,748
You know, those kinds of things that are supportive of the new behavior and
805
01:04:29,748 --> 01:04:33,268
not, oh, you forgot to call on Sue again. Right. Right.
806
01:05:02,128 --> 01:05:03,708
Their attention to get them to consciously think, oh yeah, he has,
807
01:05:03,728 --> 01:05:06,688
or she has been making an effort in that area.
808
01:05:08,391 --> 01:05:12,851
It communicates to that person, I value your opinion.
809
01:05:13,111 --> 01:05:19,611
I listened to what you said. So again, it's a way of elevating their value in their own.
810
01:05:19,931 --> 01:05:24,051
I love that. So the listening piece as a fundamental for communication,
811
01:05:24,071 --> 01:05:26,211
probably step one, and I wholeheartedly agree.
812
01:05:26,351 --> 01:05:30,891
I want to punctuate something the way you kind of described that whole process.
813
01:05:31,271 --> 01:05:34,711
And it calls back to the being and doing
814
01:05:34,711 --> 01:05:38,091
in simultaneous synergy with
815
01:05:38,091 --> 01:05:41,171
each other that yes you're
816
01:05:41,171 --> 01:05:44,211
showing them that you value them their
817
01:05:44,211 --> 01:05:46,931
feedback their opinion that you're listening that they're
818
01:05:46,931 --> 01:05:53,011
important in that way you're that's who you're being and obviously very important
819
01:05:53,011 --> 01:05:59,631
but let's not forget the value of what you're doing is you're you're that that
820
01:05:59,631 --> 01:06:04,871
information that you're going to get that tactically speaking can be absolutely invaluable.
821
01:06:05,911 --> 01:06:10,031
They're pointing out the things that might be impeding productivity or morale
822
01:06:10,031 --> 01:06:13,991
or efficiencies or quality somewhere in the company.
823
01:06:14,131 --> 01:06:16,471
Like the data itself is valuable.
824
01:06:17,331 --> 01:06:20,891
And I think that's where actually a lot of leaders will get stuck is like,
825
01:06:21,011 --> 01:06:26,351
there's no data that they can contribute to this conversation that would be new information to me.
826
01:06:26,451 --> 01:06:29,591
And so they're not gonna necessarily take the time to listen.
827
01:06:29,591 --> 01:06:35,211
And they're forgetting that other, at least equally as valuable component of,
828
01:06:35,391 --> 01:06:41,671
yeah, but if I can show up as someone who is available to their suggestions,
829
01:06:41,871 --> 01:06:44,431
who is willing to listen, who values them,
830
01:06:44,651 --> 01:06:46,991
now you're being somebody different as well.
831
01:06:47,111 --> 01:06:50,091
You're doing and being both. You're going to get really valuable data,
832
01:06:50,191 --> 01:06:54,971
and you're going to get your team respecting you and caring more about your
833
01:06:54,971 --> 01:06:58,051
vision and the values that you're trying to embody in your organization.
834
01:06:58,871 --> 01:07:04,451
And, you know, another piece of all of this is, and you mentioned this word earlier, forgiveness.
835
01:07:05,491 --> 01:07:09,351
The willingness to let go of past hurts, pains.
836
01:07:09,931 --> 01:07:14,311
Part of our pain comes from the stories we tell ourselves about the person's
837
01:07:14,311 --> 01:07:19,591
intent, you know, what they did, why they did it, and we just conjure up all these things.
838
01:07:19,591 --> 01:07:24,931
And so we carry these resentments with us over time, and it eats away at us.
839
01:07:25,131 --> 01:07:29,631
It's really not impacting that other person typically, but it does take a toll
840
01:07:29,631 --> 01:07:35,511
on us and that willingness to let go of those things and be willing to forgive
841
01:07:35,511 --> 01:07:37,051
others quickly and easily.
842
01:07:37,051 --> 01:07:45,671
Because we assume innocent intent or positive intent on what they did.
843
01:07:45,771 --> 01:07:49,291
We don't assume they were out to get me, embarrass me, make me look bad.
844
01:07:49,431 --> 01:07:51,611
All these things that we just create.
845
01:07:52,746 --> 01:07:55,786
And our beliefs about others and why they do things.
846
01:07:55,866 --> 01:08:04,286
And instead, the quicker we can learn to forgive and let go of those kinds of things with others,
847
01:08:04,606 --> 01:08:11,806
the more they're likely to reciprocate and forgive us of things that we do because we aren't perfect.
848
01:08:11,866 --> 01:08:19,546
We're going to make mistakes. And so that, and I think part of this whole thing related to feedback,
849
01:08:19,726 --> 01:08:24,346
forgiveness, when we've said or done something that was painful for another
850
01:08:24,346 --> 01:08:26,506
person and we get feedback about it,
851
01:08:26,646 --> 01:08:32,986
besides thanking them and apologizing, I think it's so important to ask if it
852
01:08:32,986 --> 01:08:35,006
makes sense for that situation.
853
01:08:35,446 --> 01:08:37,106
What can I do to make it right?
854
01:08:38,126 --> 01:08:41,946
Because this is how we rebuild trust. That helps them forgive as well.
855
01:08:42,806 --> 01:08:46,086
Yeah. What can I do to make it right? Because you're saying,
856
01:08:46,166 --> 01:08:52,726
I recognize what I did was hurtful to you or embarrassing or whatever it was,
857
01:08:52,806 --> 01:08:56,706
the negative impact that it had on the person. How can I make it right?
858
01:08:57,086 --> 01:09:03,346
So that they know you're serious about wanting to repair the relationship.
859
01:09:03,766 --> 01:09:07,906
Yeah. The topic we're in the middle of right now, I feel like we're We're like
860
01:09:07,906 --> 01:09:11,366
almost over our heads on the subject around communication.
861
01:09:11,786 --> 01:09:15,386
It's so, there's so much. So people spend their lives, many people spend their
862
01:09:15,386 --> 01:09:20,086
lives breaking it down and kind of understanding all the different components of it.
863
01:09:20,126 --> 01:09:23,426
You have your own book, Meredith, Connect With Your Team is the title, I believe.
864
01:09:23,526 --> 01:09:27,506
Do you go into some of these fundamentals around communication in that book,
865
01:09:27,566 --> 01:09:30,486
Connect With Your Team? Yeah, Denny and I co-authored that book. Okay.
866
01:09:30,646 --> 01:09:35,206
And we have 10 core communication skills. We just touched on some of them,
867
01:09:35,306 --> 01:09:39,506
but we have three different chapters on feedback, appreciation or positive feedback,
868
01:09:39,846 --> 01:09:44,346
giving constructive feedback, and receiving constructive feedback.
869
01:09:44,686 --> 01:09:48,946
In fact, we call it receiving feedback graciously. I love that.
870
01:09:50,189 --> 01:09:54,089
So I would recommend that for anyone that wants to up-level their communication
871
01:09:54,089 --> 01:09:56,729
skills because it's very practical.
872
01:09:56,869 --> 01:10:03,809
We give some sample dialogues of when it doesn't look good and here's how it looks when done well.
873
01:10:04,049 --> 01:10:08,729
And getting buy-in is another important aspect of communication.
874
01:10:09,169 --> 01:10:13,529
How do you get people to say, yeah, we want to do that instead of this.
875
01:10:14,289 --> 01:10:18,589
Asking questions so people learn to think for themselves. That's another area
876
01:10:18,589 --> 01:10:22,789
where too many leaders feel the pressure to give all the answers when,
877
01:10:22,829 --> 01:10:27,449
in fact, people on your team are eager to think for themselves.
878
01:10:27,529 --> 01:10:30,069
They just need the opportunity to do it. They need the opportunity,
879
01:10:30,229 --> 01:10:32,649
the permission, the appreciation for that.
880
01:10:32,809 --> 01:10:39,169
Yeah. Not even like, not even the accolades just to be heard and seen and understood and valued.
881
01:10:39,569 --> 01:10:43,289
I have to confess, I haven't read Connect with your team yet.
882
01:10:43,329 --> 01:10:48,209
And I'm excited to because, I mean, for a whole abundance of reasons,
883
01:10:48,289 --> 01:10:53,469
just because it comes kind of from you and your experiences and co-authored with Denny, but...
884
01:10:54,519 --> 01:10:59,099
Based on the conversation today, clearly there's a lot more depth in that that we can talk to.
885
01:10:59,139 --> 01:11:06,379
I love that you offer kind of like examples of what those conversations might
886
01:11:06,379 --> 01:11:08,699
sound like in my work with clients.
887
01:11:08,799 --> 01:11:13,799
Oftentimes we can talk about the fundamentals of it, but they really have a
888
01:11:13,799 --> 01:11:18,559
hard time kind of populating those ideas with their own voice.
889
01:11:19,059 --> 01:11:23,059
You know, they're afraid I'm going to sound like Meredith Bell if I do this.
890
01:11:23,059 --> 01:11:26,539
And right, I'm going to sound like my coach. And that's not them.
891
01:11:26,739 --> 01:11:31,479
It's going to come off as disingenuous and kind of contrived and false and ugh.
892
01:11:32,119 --> 01:11:38,119
And so, yeah, and connect with your team, your book. I love that you have some
893
01:11:38,119 --> 01:11:39,559
samples of what that might sound like.
894
01:11:40,799 --> 01:11:43,759
Yeah we we knew there are lots of books out
895
01:11:43,759 --> 01:11:46,739
there that are more conceptual and we wanted
896
01:11:46,739 --> 01:11:49,679
something that was a practical guide so it's
897
01:11:49,679 --> 01:11:52,679
very concrete about you know again what
898
01:11:52,679 --> 01:11:57,879
is this how do you recognize the moment when you could use this skill what kind
899
01:11:57,879 --> 01:12:04,099
of mindset do you need in approaching the situation and then what specifically
900
01:12:04,099 --> 01:12:09,779
can you do to be effective perspective in either giving feedback or encouraging
901
01:12:09,779 --> 01:12:11,879
others to think for themselves, whatever it is.
902
01:12:12,119 --> 01:12:16,839
And those sample dialogues, I think, really help bring it to life. Yeah.
903
01:12:17,099 --> 01:12:22,979
Because they're real types of conversations that people relate to.
904
01:12:23,139 --> 01:12:26,339
Yeah. Two other books that I know of that do that really well.
905
01:12:26,499 --> 01:12:30,039
One of them is Crucial Conversations by the team of that organization.
906
01:12:30,299 --> 01:12:33,339
And another one by an author, Jonathan Raymond, And he wrote something called
907
01:12:33,339 --> 01:12:39,259
Good Authority, where there's a lot of good examples of real dialogue and what that might sound like.
908
01:12:39,319 --> 01:12:42,439
And, you know, you're going to need to overlay your own voice into that,
909
01:12:42,499 --> 01:12:46,319
like I was emphasizing, so that it's really coming authentically from you and
910
01:12:46,319 --> 01:12:50,039
not from this cool new leadership book you just discovered. Yeah.
911
01:12:50,955 --> 01:12:54,555
And I love that, you know, kind of wrapping this all up with the word authentic,
912
01:12:54,735 --> 01:12:59,075
because all the things we've been talking about, if you're coming from this
913
01:12:59,075 --> 01:13:06,735
place of who you want to be, and then you show up that way, that is true authenticity.
914
01:13:06,735 --> 01:13:07,935
Authenticity. Yeah, yeah.
915
01:13:08,435 --> 01:13:14,535
You know, we've talked a lot today about conceptual and bigger picture things
916
01:13:14,535 --> 01:13:19,035
and a few practical tips, but can you give listeners a few things that they
917
01:13:19,035 --> 01:13:21,735
could do, you know, really starting today to get some traction on their own
918
01:13:21,735 --> 01:13:22,435
leadership development?
919
01:13:22,515 --> 01:13:26,535
And we're always looking for quick wins that motivate and inspire us and put
920
01:13:26,535 --> 01:13:30,035
fuel in our tank for the long game, because it is a long game, a lot of this stuff.
921
01:13:30,215 --> 01:13:32,595
What are some immediate, like starting today?
922
01:13:32,915 --> 01:13:37,895
All right. I can imagine with those daily affirmations or sort of choices that
923
01:13:37,895 --> 01:13:40,355
you're making, how you're going to show up. That's a biggie.
924
01:13:40,715 --> 01:13:46,355
What else? Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things that pops in my head that leaders
925
01:13:46,355 --> 01:13:49,115
deal with all the time is people coming to them with questions.
926
01:13:49,695 --> 01:13:56,415
What should I do here? And I would say a quick thing somebody could start doing
927
01:13:56,415 --> 01:14:02,515
is simply adopt this one question to ask in response to anybody coming to you
928
01:14:02,515 --> 01:14:04,075
with a question. Well, what do you think?
929
01:14:05,196 --> 01:14:09,156
And you can use variations of that. What have you thought about so far?
930
01:14:09,276 --> 01:14:10,756
What options are you considering?
931
01:14:10,996 --> 01:14:13,336
What are the pros and cons of the different options?
932
01:14:13,856 --> 01:14:18,776
Just so you want, it's sort of like parenting with children.
933
01:14:18,936 --> 01:14:23,276
You want them to eventually grow up to be an independent adult that's relying
934
01:14:23,276 --> 01:14:25,516
on you for answers and for money.
935
01:14:25,896 --> 01:14:31,836
So for people on your team, if they're constantly coming to you with questions,
936
01:14:32,036 --> 01:14:37,776
that probably is a signal that they don't feel safe making decisions on their
937
01:14:37,776 --> 01:14:43,476
own and you've created a dependence of them on you.
938
01:14:43,696 --> 01:14:47,516
And so if you can start asking that question,
939
01:14:47,716 --> 01:14:52,596
what do you think, or some version of it, you're going to start getting people
940
01:14:52,596 --> 01:14:58,476
to think independently and eventually they will feel comfortable playing with
941
01:14:58,476 --> 01:15:01,576
ideas themselves and or doing a lot of that
942
01:15:01,656 --> 01:15:05,856
pre-thinking before they ever come to you so that maybe they're making a recommendation
943
01:15:05,856 --> 01:15:09,436
to you instead of asking you for the answer.
944
01:15:09,676 --> 01:15:15,836
And I think that is a huge win if leaders do that on a regular basis because
945
01:15:15,836 --> 01:15:18,496
you want to build strong people.
946
01:15:18,676 --> 01:15:23,396
And a part of that is people that can think for themselves and make good decisions.
947
01:15:23,416 --> 01:15:28,636
So giving them that opportunity is huge and it can start with something very
948
01:15:28,636 --> 01:15:30,316
simple, like a question.
949
01:15:30,516 --> 01:15:37,036
And I'll just point to the practical benefit of that is, so many clients I work
950
01:15:37,036 --> 01:15:43,196
with just bemoan how their people are so needy that they have to involve themselves in everything.
951
01:15:43,336 --> 01:15:46,576
And it's like, well, how much have you cultivated that as the environment?
952
01:15:46,776 --> 01:15:52,176
Like you could completely derail that whole pernicious cycle by.
953
01:15:52,416 --> 01:15:56,236
Like you said, just asking them, well, what do you think you should do? What have you tried?
954
01:15:57,167 --> 01:16:01,047
Yeah. And, you know, tying in with that, another quick win, Dan,
955
01:16:01,227 --> 01:16:07,327
might be if you're finding yourself feeling agitated or aggravated about a situation,
956
01:16:07,507 --> 01:16:11,127
and your first thought is, why is this happening to me?
957
01:16:11,147 --> 01:16:13,947
Why am I having to work with these people? Or whatever it is.
958
01:16:14,587 --> 01:16:19,447
Instead, to start asking, how have I contributed to this situation?
959
01:16:19,447 --> 01:16:24,447
You know, what's been my role in the results I'm seeing here?
960
01:16:24,587 --> 01:16:28,767
Like you were just saying, the example of a needy, needy people.
961
01:16:28,907 --> 01:16:31,007
Well, that doesn't just happen.
962
01:16:31,807 --> 01:16:39,827
It's, yeah, so taking that owner, ownership, I own this, I take responsibility for my role in this.
963
01:16:39,947 --> 01:16:43,407
And it's not so you start blaming yourself or feel bad about yourself.
964
01:16:43,407 --> 01:16:45,987
It's looking at it in a creative way.
965
01:16:46,287 --> 01:16:52,787
What can I do to alter this so that it runs in a more effective,
966
01:16:53,007 --> 01:16:57,047
positive way that serves me and the people around me? Yeah.
967
01:16:57,167 --> 01:17:01,727
So I think that's really a key thing that leaders often have a blind spot about
968
01:17:01,727 --> 01:17:06,727
because it's it's it's easier to look at outside of you and say,
969
01:17:06,787 --> 01:17:09,647
well, if only this person would change it, only this family,
970
01:17:09,767 --> 01:17:13,067
I didn't have this person on my team or if only I didn't have the boss that I've got.
971
01:17:13,067 --> 01:17:18,807
So what can you do to create positive out of whatever it is you're seeing?
972
01:17:18,907 --> 01:17:23,927
Because I promise the way you're thinking about it is having a big impact on
973
01:17:23,927 --> 01:17:27,107
how you're behaving in those situations.
974
01:17:27,107 --> 01:17:32,047
If there's a question that is the most predominant one that I ask in my work
975
01:17:32,047 --> 01:17:35,407
with clients, it's probably exactly that, Meredith, is what are you doing to
976
01:17:35,407 --> 01:17:36,627
contribute to this situation?
977
01:17:37,987 --> 01:17:41,547
So I think it's super helpful for leaders to ask.
978
01:17:42,538 --> 01:17:46,218
To pose that question to themselves, again, honestly and humbly and maybe get
979
01:17:46,218 --> 01:17:49,938
feedback from others because it's your blind spot because it's your blind spot.
980
01:17:50,118 --> 01:17:53,238
So you're probably not going to be able to instantly recognize what that is. Yeah.
981
01:17:53,658 --> 01:17:59,378
Yeah. And a third thing would be being willing to go to people that work with
982
01:17:59,378 --> 01:18:03,538
you on a one-on-one and just say, it's one thing I could do better.
983
01:18:05,278 --> 01:18:11,118
Or what's one thing I could do to make your experience working with me better? Wow.
984
01:18:11,378 --> 01:18:14,738
Ooh, I love that little tweak to that question.
985
01:18:15,678 --> 01:18:20,158
Because that's different. What can I do better is like, oh.
986
01:18:20,378 --> 01:18:25,698
That's pretty broad. But if it's my experience with you, now that's different.
987
01:18:25,778 --> 01:18:27,538
I know where the friction is there.
988
01:18:28,078 --> 01:18:35,678
And then also framing it in advance to say, you know, I really want to work
989
01:18:35,678 --> 01:18:37,498
on being a more effective leader.
990
01:18:37,718 --> 01:18:41,598
So letting them know the why. The context. So you're not just asking this question
991
01:18:41,598 --> 01:18:43,838
out of the blue. It's like, where's that coming from?
992
01:18:44,078 --> 01:18:48,878
And I don't know if I can be honest. All right, what book did you read this week? Yeah, exactly.
993
01:18:49,378 --> 01:18:57,958
So to frame it in a way that people feel more invited and there won't be negative
994
01:18:57,958 --> 01:19:02,478
repercussions if they're responding in an honest way.
995
01:19:02,478 --> 01:19:08,898
And even say, yeah, even, you know, give it some thought and maybe later today
996
01:19:08,898 --> 01:19:11,678
or even tomorrow, let me know what you think.
997
01:19:11,738 --> 01:19:15,938
I'm not trying to put you on the spot in this moment, but I really want to be
998
01:19:15,938 --> 01:19:17,498
a more effective leader.
999
01:19:17,678 --> 01:19:20,458
And I'd love to know, what does that look like for you? Yeah.
1000
01:19:21,545 --> 01:19:25,945
I love that. You know, oh my gosh, we covered so much today.
1001
01:19:26,765 --> 01:19:32,505
Trying to get a concise summary of what we covered today is going to be a challenge for sure.
1002
01:19:33,485 --> 01:19:37,845
But I'd like to maybe wrap it up with this. You told me before about a guiding
1003
01:19:37,845 --> 01:19:40,805
principle that served you well over the years, and I want to share it with our
1004
01:19:40,805 --> 01:19:44,605
listeners to see if you can expound on a little bit to wrap this up.
1005
01:19:44,705 --> 01:19:47,665
You said it was from the book, The Prosperous Coach by Steve Chandler and Rich
1006
01:19:47,665 --> 01:19:50,185
Litvin, which is a fantastic Fantastic book, by the way.
1007
01:19:50,225 --> 01:19:55,325
And it says, how can I serve this person so powerfully that they never forget
1008
01:19:55,325 --> 01:19:57,365
our conversation for the rest of their life?
1009
01:19:57,585 --> 01:20:00,065
That just rings so true for me, and I love it.
1010
01:20:00,525 --> 01:20:07,245
I mean, we could just end it there, because I think it exemplifies the way you show up, Meredith.
1011
01:20:07,425 --> 01:20:12,605
But do you have any parting thoughts about that sentiment? Thank you.
1012
01:20:12,625 --> 01:20:16,485
That is a perfect way for us to pull the threads together, I think.
1013
01:20:16,765 --> 01:20:23,365
Because what this means, what it meant to me, it jumped out at the page and it just stuck with me.
1014
01:20:23,905 --> 01:20:30,465
Because am I showing up in a way that helps the person feel valued?
1015
01:20:31,225 --> 01:20:33,705
And am I focused on...
1016
01:20:41,225 --> 01:20:44,765
In about our product as opposed to getting to
1017
01:20:44,765 --> 01:20:48,125
know someone and being genuinely curious and interested in
1018
01:20:48,125 --> 01:20:51,185
them and asking questions that maybe nobody's ever
1019
01:20:51,185 --> 01:20:56,845
taken the time to ask them and kind of challenging their thinking in a kind
1020
01:20:56,845 --> 01:21:05,525
way but in a you know a direct way so that they start evaluating all in the
1021
01:21:05,525 --> 01:21:10,905
spirit of elevating them right so they feel valued that kind of conversation,
1022
01:21:11,005 --> 01:21:14,565
they'll remember because they unfortunately are rare.
1023
01:21:15,085 --> 01:21:20,625
Agreed. They don't happen that often. And as opposed to somebody is not going
1024
01:21:20,625 --> 01:21:25,425
to remember for the rest of their life a conversation where I'm talking about myself all the time.
1025
01:21:26,370 --> 01:21:32,950
Or your product. Exactly. But if I'm engaged in them from a spirit of curiosity,
1026
01:21:33,370 --> 01:21:38,670
then one of Steve Chandler's other books that I love called How to Get Clients,
1027
01:21:38,830 --> 01:21:40,990
he has a chapter in there on curiosity.
1028
01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:44,910
And what he says there ties into me with this other quote.
1029
01:21:44,990 --> 01:21:47,170
And that is, if I come from a
1030
01:21:47,170 --> 01:21:53,110
spirit of really wanting to understand this person, what is felt is love.
1031
01:21:53,110 --> 01:21:56,070
When somebody feels loved by another
1032
01:21:56,070 --> 01:21:58,970
human being they're going to remember that
1033
01:21:58,970 --> 01:22:03,530
that's pretty memorable and noteworthy yeah and i
1034
01:22:03,530 --> 01:22:06,170
have a goal for that to
1035
01:22:06,170 --> 01:22:08,750
be less rare in this world and i
1036
01:22:08,750 --> 01:22:11,910
think so that so that we have to even elevate beyond
1037
01:22:11,910 --> 01:22:14,730
that so they're not that in itself doesn't make
1038
01:22:14,730 --> 01:22:20,550
it memorable and you are such force in the spirit of that meredith and and like
1039
01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:25,330
i said at the top of the call and all of my interactions with you have just
1040
01:22:25,330 --> 01:22:29,630
been from that place of generosity that I feel very fortunate to have come to
1041
01:22:29,630 --> 01:22:33,450
know you a bit and hope to continue the conversation as well.
1042
01:22:33,910 --> 01:22:38,650
Thank you so much, Dan. I've loved our conversation today and I'm grateful you
1043
01:22:38,650 --> 01:22:40,350
had me on your show. Well, thank you.
1044
01:22:40,570 --> 01:22:46,650
And as we depart here briefly, like I said, by the time this airs, it will be live.
1045
01:22:46,770 --> 01:22:52,210
It will be in the show notes, but where can folks go? Quick access, one click.
1046
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:55,910
Where can we go, Meredith, to learn more about Grow Strong Leaders?
1047
01:22:56,190 --> 01:22:59,950
Website. Our website is growstrongleaders.com.
1048
01:23:00,230 --> 01:23:04,810
And on that site, you'll find out about our 360, about GSL Skill Builder,
1049
01:23:04,810 --> 01:23:06,310
the new program, about my podcast,
1050
01:23:06,610 --> 01:23:10,190
which also is called Grow Strong Leaders, where I interview leaders,
1051
01:23:10,350 --> 01:23:16,270
just as you do, who are making an impact either inside their organizations or
1052
01:23:16,270 --> 01:23:17,490
people like you that are helping.
1053
01:23:18,511 --> 01:23:23,311
Organizations to grow. So that's the core place is growstrongleaders.com.
1054
01:23:23,511 --> 01:23:29,351
Awesome. I actually have here, and regrettably, I did not ask you about that podcast.
1055
01:23:29,591 --> 01:23:33,251
Will you just give a little pitch about what that's about a little bit more? Oh, sure.
1056
01:23:34,211 --> 01:23:41,091
I started it, believe it or not, it's five years ago this month in June of 2019.
1057
01:23:41,491 --> 01:23:49,051
I I started it. And my goal has been to really highlight the positive work leaders
1058
01:23:49,051 --> 01:23:50,691
are doing in their organizations.
1059
01:23:50,951 --> 01:23:56,251
Our whole thrust is growing strong leaders. We believe they can continue to grow.
1060
01:23:56,431 --> 01:24:01,351
And so I interview people who have been focused on their own growth and development as leaders,
1061
01:24:01,551 --> 01:24:07,371
and also helping the people on their team or in their entire company to grow
1062
01:24:07,371 --> 01:24:14,251
so they can achieve what they're capable of achieving and build a culture where people thrive.
1063
01:24:14,331 --> 01:24:19,791
They love coming to work because they're living the values they are bringing
1064
01:24:19,791 --> 01:24:24,531
to life every day through their interactions with each other, with their clients,
1065
01:24:24,711 --> 01:24:30,871
with the community at large in a positive way, having an impact with what they're doing.
1066
01:24:30,971 --> 01:24:36,871
So I love being able to highlight like the good work that other folks are doing in this world.
1067
01:24:37,111 --> 01:24:43,291
Fantastic. Boy, are we aligned there. The leverage and the ripple effects of leadership in that way.
1068
01:24:43,371 --> 01:24:48,451
It's why season two is the focus, whereas your whole dang podcast is based on
1069
01:24:48,451 --> 01:24:51,171
that. Your entire career is on growing strong leadership.
1070
01:24:51,331 --> 01:24:55,211
So I deeply appreciate the value you brought to our listeners today.
1071
01:24:55,491 --> 01:24:58,991
Links will be in the show notes where you can get more information about Grow
1072
01:24:58,991 --> 01:25:01,871
Strong Leaders and about Meredith and the tremendous work that they've been
1073
01:25:01,871 --> 01:25:04,951
doing and the people that they've helped and want to thank you for listening today.
1074
01:25:05,051 --> 01:25:08,031
Mara, thank you again for joining us today. Thank you, Dan.
1075
01:25:10,951 --> 01:25:15,251
We at Best Self Coaching hope you got all that you came here for from today's episode.
1076
01:25:15,451 --> 01:25:19,151
And if you want more like this, be sure to follow and subscribe to Clearing
1077
01:25:19,151 --> 01:25:20,891
Obstacles on your favorite listening platform.
1078
01:25:21,191 --> 01:25:26,091
You can also go to bestself.coach slash podcast for more information.
1079
01:25:26,371 --> 01:25:30,311
There you'll find more episodes and links to the content discussed today,
1080
01:25:30,311 --> 01:25:34,431
as well as info on how you can get in touch if you're interested in clearing
1081
01:25:34,431 --> 01:25:38,151
your own obstacles to become the kind of leader that you know your team is waiting for.
1082
01:25:38,591 --> 01:25:42,211
Your business should serve your life. So let us help you get there from here
1083
01:25:42,211 --> 01:25:44,531
because nobody should do this on their own.
1084
01:25:45,111 --> 01:25:46,991
Thanks again for listening. See you soon.
1085
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:56,368
Music.