WEBVTT
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With October being domestic abuse awareness month, we wanted to make sure that we shed some light on this, but you need to get somewhere safe.
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Yes.
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You don't, you do not need to be under the same roof as someone that is hurting you, hurting your kids.
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That's not okay.
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Hello and good morning, and welcome back to Carpool Confessions Podcast.
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I am Kelly Marie.
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And I'm Kate Shaw, and we are hitting the rope.
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And we're super excited because we got new mics, so we're hoping that our audio is better.
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Yes.
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So please keep us updated on what your thoughts are there.
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We're constantly changing and shifting and trying new things and trying to make things better for everybody listening.
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And thank you for everybody who's listening, by the way.
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I get comments from people all the time that are talking about how this has helped them, and that is so encouraging for us.
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It really is encouraging.
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I mean, and for me, it's actually been very healing because for those that don't know, I have been very open about the things I've been through for for a long time.
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I've written lots of stuff and put it on Facebook primarily.
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And I have received a lot of crap for that.
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I've been attacked over it.
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I've had people tell me I need to move on and get over the past, that I'm um being a victim and all of these things.
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And uh now I hear here I am talking about those same things on a whole different platform in a in a much bigger way, I think.
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Yeah, I think it it's been really healing for both of us.
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And from the feedback I've heard, it sounds like, you know, a lot of women are just really glad to be hearing these conversations.
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I think one of the quotes I heard from someone in the last week was, it's a weird world right now.
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Which it is.
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It is, it's so weird.
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And uh I think we're really in a space where authenticity is really, really needed instead of just sugarcoating everything.
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It it does nobody any type of service to sugarcoat these things.
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And you know, we need to talk about them in their rawness, no matter how vul vulnerable it is.
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Again, we're not saying that you have to do that, but there has to be people willing to step out into that, and that's what we're willing to do.
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Right.
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And to support us, subscribing is a huge thing.
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Yes, you know, watching our videos, sharing our videos, liking our videos, all of that helps to get the word out, um, essentially about what we're doing.
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And so again, we are super close to 500 subscribers.
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Yeah.
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Love to get to that little marking point and and uh, you know, just see what God does here.
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Absolutely.
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And if you are somebody listening and you've seen us out in public and you're too scared to maybe come up to us, please come up to us.
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If there's something that resonated with you and you feel like you really need to share that or you want to share a part of your story with us, please do that.
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We will we will step away with you if that's needed.
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We have done that before, and uh, I just don't want anybody that does see us to feel like they can't come up to us and and talk to us.
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Yeah, I love talking about it.
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It's fun.
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Yeah, I do too.
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Well, for today's episode, um, I watched a Netflix documentary that I think Kate watched because I feel like it's really important to talk about uh the context of what was going on in that documentary, and and just because so many other women and men suffer through those things.
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So the documentary that we watched was The Pastor's Wife, and that was really hard for me to watch.
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A lot of the themes that were displayed throughout that documentary, I have dealt with in my own life in various different ways, maybe not all through a romantic partner like Micah did, but in maybe you didn't experience everything that she did, but there's just a lot of themes that really stuck out to me.
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What about you, Kate?
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Yeah, and I think just if you haven't seen that documentary, the TLDR version is that Micah Miller was someone that started getting groomed very early um in her church.
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So the pastor, I think they probably met what when she was 13.
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Yep, when she was 13.
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And he was married.
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And if you don't know what grooming is, it is not simply just being nice to someone, it's the process of building trust, gaining access, and getting them to depend on you and comply with you in some way.
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And this is done through a course of time.
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And I myself have experienced grooming um by two individuals, well, three actually, three different individuals I've experienced that with.
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And um it's very disorienting because because of how it's done.
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It's it's really a manipulative practice, yeah, is what it is.
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Yeah, it really is.
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And um ultimately what happened with Micah and why we're talking about this, because with October being domestic abuse awareness month, we wanted to make sure that we shed some light on this because um, you know, on the stage, this pastor was one thing, but behind closed doors, he was something completely else.
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And right, um, you know, we're not here to go through the whole entire story of Micah, but ultimately what this ended in was Micah's death uh by suicide is what they called it murder by suicide, I think, is what they've landed on.
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Um, but because of the deep level of abuse happening to her behind closed doors and you know, infidelity, all kinds of things that are just absolutely horrific to think of with a pastor, you know, a leader in a church, a trusted person.
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Right.
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Um, this is why we wanted to have this conversation.
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Because I think, you know, some of the really big things that the themes that go along with this are important and we need to be talking about them.
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And I think some of the biggest red flags that you should make sure to pay attention to so that this kind of thing isn't happening in your sphere.
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Yeah.
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We that these are the kind of things that we want to talk about because ultimately this is happening way more often than we would like to do.
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And it's not just the churches either, but I will say it feels way worse when it is somebody like a pastor because they absolutely know better and they know what they're doing, and it's it's it makes me angry if I'm being perfectly honest, because using something like God and God's word to coerce people into despicable acts is depraved.
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There's no other word for it.
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And not only are you causing this person sexual trauma and physical trauma, you're causing them spiritual trauma, which is just awful to make somebody distrust something like God and what God's word is.
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But unfortunately, evil evil people are going to twist his word.
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And I experienced some of those things like I've discussed.
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Um, men are supposed to be the head of the household.
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We're supposed to distrust everything that they do, and it can really be used to manipulate people and really force women, especially women, into sex.
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I think that's the most common use I see with God's word is forcing women into sex.
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And Micah was abused very sexually by her own husband.
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Right.
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Yeah, at one point I think he had her get on testosterone so that she could keep up with his wants for her sexually, and it it just was out of control.
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Um, and it's so sad.
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I think one of the biggest things that I took away after I watched this whole thing, I mean, there was a lot of things that obviously it it messed me up quite a bit launching, and I was like, this is crazy.
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But my first thought was you know, if someone is seeking or or wanting to know God, and they see this type of behavior, like this Netflix documentary, for example, because it's not the first and it's not the only one out there.
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No, but what a horrible representation of the church for people that don't know the church, yeah, you know, and that's that to me was it really affected me because I thought, oh my gosh, you know, people are going to think that's just you know, the church is getting a bad rep, and like there's all kinds of you all hear about all kinds of pastors getting caught in sexual sin and and everything else, but it's I think the point is is that you have to realize that these are people too.
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Yes.
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And when we're looking at leadership in a church especially, but any type of leadership, t people tend to get kind of rose-colored glasses when looking at people in authority.
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Absolutely.
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I think this was one of the things that made me the angriest.
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And I I've had a dream about this sort of situation, and that's you know, I was in this mall, what I would think is a mall, but it was just nothing but concrete with bright lights, and people are walking around like they would a mall.
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And all of a sudden, this man comes up to me and he just holds me to the ground and is holding me to the ground, and I'm trying to fight him, and everybody is just walking by, seeing this and doing nothing.
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And that's been a real big theme in my life, and I I see it every day, not always in such massive extreme ways like we have with the pastor's wife, but it does happen.
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We are so conditioned to trust authority and to respect our elders that we feel like we can't call them out if we're recognizing something that feels off.
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And that's the other thing.
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We are we are so conditioned to not trust our intuition.
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So when I was watching this documentary and they played some of his sermons, I was disgusted, I was appalled, it made me so angry because why wasn't anybody calling this person out?
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Yeah.
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Because had had I, I'm as we all know, if you've listened this far, I just started going to church a little over a year ago.
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Had I showed up with the trauma that I have and heard what this man was saying, I would have been like, Kate, what is wrong with you and all of your people?
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Because I'm leafy.
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That's so funny you should say that, because that was the other thing that really bothered me about this was I just could not fathom why people were going to that church.
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Right.
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You know, I so people were like blindly following this person who, by the way, I I don't love church politics.
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Okay.
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But when I heard that there was like literally no checks and balances for accountability for this person, I thought, okay, this is more of a cult.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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Like, I mean I mean, do you want to talk about that?
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Because I'm not, I honestly didn't know there's like checks and balances.
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Well, there should be.
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There should be, you know, like at our church, there's there's elders which are essentially serve as a board, right?
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So there's no one person that's just in charge that has all the power.
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You know, we have a lead pastor, but ultimately he's accountable to the board, right?
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So if something is going awry, there is accountability in place for anyone that is, you know, in our church doing work, right?
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So same thing goes for um, you know, there's other churches have different ways of doing it.
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I mean, right.
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Some churches are like congregation-led, like you'll have these business meetings that everybody's at, but there should still be a level of accountability for the person in charge, right?
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Period.
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Like that that's just like you get people in power, you're gonna have problems, you know.
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And um, regardless of what that looks like, if that means that you know, some some churches, you know, have different levels, like they have different layers.
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Like I know the Catholic Church has has different layers of authority, or they'll have like kind of more of a a regional area that's kind of in charge of the local diocese.
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I'm I may be butcher.
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Sorry if you're Catholic and I'm butcher butchering this, I'm not Catholic, but I just know that there's accountability there.
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Right.
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And um, and there should be because otherwise what happened is gonna happen.
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You're gonna have things like this happen.
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And I think that that was one of the things that came up when one of the other pastors that was standing in trying to help the church get through this situation, not realizing the extent of the situation, she tried, she found out and she tried to go to the elders to, you know, bring this concern up, but because there was no governance in place, or he just had all these people in place to, you know, be yes men, you know what I'm saying?
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Like which is highly possible, um, there was nothing done.
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They they turned a blind eye to it because they were all his friends, you know, and so it's like, I don't know, I just think I think there has to be some sort of governance in place, but you also, as a believer, you have a responsibility for noticing those red flags, and part of that is knowing the word of God and what he has to say.
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It's it's just amazing to me how twisted they can use God's word for such evil.
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Yes.
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I think that's what anchored me a lot too was I have experienced that, you know, being told that a father has the right to take their daughter's virginity because that's what God would want.
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You know, that's yeah.
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So it's I think it's especially depraved when religion is involved because how are you using somebody who's so loving?
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And I also think it's important to mention that a lot of people stay in bad relationships because they think that's what God wants now.
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I I I'm not well versed on God's word.
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I'm gonna be 100%.
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That's why a lot of times you see me lean on Kate for that, because I'm still learning myself.
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But still learning too.
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Yeah, to be clear, yeah.
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But I know that he doesn't want anything that hurts us.
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You're right.
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Actually, uh Pastor Jeff and I did a uh series on marriage, and we had an episode about divorce.
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Okay because this is like a big topic with the church.
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It is right a lot of people think they can't get a divorce.
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Exactly.
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And here's the thing you know, people like to throw throw around scriptures, um, especially especially like when Moses was giving the Israelites these these rules about divorce, you know, people people like to throw these things around, but but the reality is is that in that time people used to divorce women for anything.
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I don't like their cooking, so I'm gonna go find me another wife.
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I don't, you know, I don't you know, whatever it is, like you're getting too fat, uh we're gonna divorce.
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Like, I'm not even joking.
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Like it was like just that.
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It was it meant nothing.
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I know that I kept thinking about that when we were talking about Samson.
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Yeah, that weirdo Samson.
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Like the covenant of marriage didn't mean anything, and so you know, God puts structure in place to for a reason, for a purpose.
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Because yes, marriage is a covenant, marriage should be viewed as a covenant, but there are also things about God's character and within the Bible that also suggests that God is not okay with hurting people, God is not okay with abusing people that don't have the strength to fight back, you know what I'm saying?
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Or in general.
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So, yeah, I think the big thing about marriage is that, you know, and this could be a whole nother conversation, and it probably should be, but marriage is a covenant relationship.
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And so, just like in the Bible, it says for women, people like to throw this submissive submission thing out.
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Yeah.
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And I'm telling you right now, yes, like there is a structural reason in a marriage for the fact that when you sort of have too many cooks in the kitchen, everybody knows this.
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When you have too many cooks in the kitchen, you have a problem.
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So, yes, having some sort of structural understanding of like who's gonna make the final call, yes, that makes perfect sense.
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But submission does not mean allowing someone else to abuse you.
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That is not what that means.
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Submission does not mean you don't have the authority or the ability to have some sort of um ability to have dignity and to have your own boundaries respected.
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That's not what that means at all, right?
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At all.
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Um, and because submission is thrown around so much, I think people, men specifically, yes, take advantage of that.
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And so many relationships behind closed doors in the church are using God's word as a weapon to control.
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And that's the the reality of it.
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I've heard people in my sphere like it makes me kind of sick because it's like people in my sphere will tell my husband, oh well, I I wish my wife would be uh a Christian like your wife because she knows her place kind of situation.
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Are you serious?
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And yeah, and I'm like, that is not at all how that works.
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Oh marriage is a partnership, marriage is a covenant, and a part of a covenant is that you have two people involved in the covenant, right?
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Where there's mutual respect means that you cannot just deny the other half of the covenant.
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The the wife does have a position, the wife does have a role as a helper to her husband, okay?
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But the husband also has a role to protect his wife and to provide for his wife and to love his wife.
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And so many times I feel like that piece gets missed.
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Yes, it does.
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So that's the big problem that I have with conversations about this in the church, is that we're not looking at the whole picture.
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No, you know, and I don't know, uh again, we could have a whole we probably will.
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We will have a whole nother episode on this because I think so too.
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There's a lot to say, and yeah, honestly, as you're like talking more about this too.
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I mean, it's another reason why I stayed away from church as well, because I didn't want to go to church and just be told more of what I've heard of in my childhood, and that essentially that as a woman, I have no agency of my own body, that once you're with the man, your body belongs to him, and that in in the sense that he can do whatever he wants with it, and so that was always a problem for me and kept me away.
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I could see that.
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Well, see, the the biblical marriage is supposed to be a representation of Christ's love for his church, right?
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Christ is the head of the church, and the way you see Christ behaving towards the shirt the church should be a reflection of the way that you see the husband uh behaving towards his wife, and the way that we as the church behave towards Christ as we submit to Christ in our lives, in our, you know, everything we do, we do it because we want, we want to, because we love, because we love Jesus, because we love what his sacrifice for us.
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Like that is the sacrificial relationship that marriage is designed to be like.
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It's not, it's not designed to be, well, I and granted, this is how humans have made religion too.
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Right.
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They've made religion very, well, I have to check a box, I have to do this, I have to do that.
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Well, people are doing the same thing in marriage, they're doing the same exact thing, right?
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And it's because people like structure.
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Humans like stability and structure, okay?
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And I think that's why so many people have trouble with the Bible when it comes to conversations about things like divorce, is because we want a rigid answer, but there are many, many situations where you cannot justify someone doing evil to someone else.
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Yeah, there's no justification for that.
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And so if you're a woman listening to this and you're being abused.
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I want you to really sit and think about what we've talked about in this podcast because Jesus does not want that for you.
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No, this is not a matter of you guys are having financial agreement, disagreements, or having maybe some discourse over how raising your kids, or you know, we get in bad moods sometimes.
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We're talking about abuse, about somebody who thinks they have authority over your body or your mind.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:28.240
Or your mind.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:29.680
They do not.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.559
Yeah.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.480
And I mean, here's the thing: we should always try for reconciliation.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.519
That should always be on the table.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.359
Because people can change, but you need to get somewhere safe.
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:41.920
Yes.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:49.599
You don't, you do not need to be under the same roof as someone that is hurting you, hurting your kids.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.279
That's not okay.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:52.720
It's not okay.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.119
And I know it, I know it is hard.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.480
Absolutely hard.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:56.799
Yep.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.440
I know how to do it.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:59.759
Well, I mean, look, I mean, and that's the other thing.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:01.279
It's not easy to leave.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:02.640
Micah did try to leave.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.359
She did.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:03.839
Yeah.
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:13.039
And so many other women tried to leave, but then the way the laws are written, they have not caught up to with how people abuse.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:22.960
Just like in Missouri last month or earlier this month, um grooming just became against the law in our own state.
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:28.079
So what that means is I can't believe that was the when I read that, I was like, really?
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.839
Like that was okay before.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:34.880
Okay, so we haven't got to this part of my story, but my dad does go to prison for what he did.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.640
And I went to court against him.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.400
I am very well versed in how that all works.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:53.920
And it's just so angry that women cannot get away, that something so extreme has to happen before anybody takes a look.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah.
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.640
That is so infuriating to me.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:05.920
Um and and he got her committed into a hospital while they were separated just because he was made they were married.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.319
That's really, really scary.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:09.920
It is really scary.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:32.880
And I I would think, I would like to think that she probably did not have the mental illness that she thought she had, but rather that her body and mind were reacting, how anybody else's body and mind would act in a very traumatic situation.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:44.720
So a lot of these mental illnesses that we see or that people think they have are adaptations from living in a really bad environment, whatever that might have looked like for you.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:46.079
Yeah.
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.960
Yeah, it's so hard.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.319
It's so hard.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.880
And there are resources too, by the way.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:09.440
If you're somebody that is in an abusive situation, uh, we'll include that information in the description if you're watching on YouTube or the description if you're if you're listening on a on a streaming platform.
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.240
But gosh, you have to speak up.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:25.200
And and here's the thing, like, okay, I say that, but it is so incredibly hard when you're in a controlling relationship to speak up because A, you don't want to draw drag other people into your drama.
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:25.599
Right.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:33.920
And B, you don't want people to see you as weak or not faithful or you know what I'm saying?
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:34.319
Yeah.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.839
Like, so it's it's incredibly hard to reach out.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.200
And also a lot of times I feel like you don't want people to view your husband in a specific way.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.559
And so I still love them.
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:46.880
Yeah.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:48.000
As weird as it is.
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:48.799
No, you do.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.839
It that doesn't just go away because you're being abused, right?
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:54.559
Necessarily.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:02.799
Now, a lot of times women do emotionally leave before they finally do leave.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:04.400
That is a very real thing.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:19.440
All I can say is for those around, like if you're in church and you've got a friend and you start to feel like something is off, you need to say something.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:20.079
Yes.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:31.519
I know it's hard, especially when you're talking about a person in a position of power or a person of especially religious authority to even question that kind of thing.
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:32.240
Yeah.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.440
But we have to.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.480
Yeah, we have to.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:40.000
We've gotten too complacent as a society by just sitting on sidelines, not saying anything.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.400
That kind of thing has to stop.
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:46.960
We have to work towards using our voices.
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.440
And what is I sent you a verse this morning.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:50.319
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:53.200
And um, I've already got Proverbs 31.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.440
Uh, I don't remember exactly what verse it was.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:56.559
You can read it for us.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:02.880
It's Proverbs 31, 8 through 9, and it says, speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.160
Ensure justice for those being crushed.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.720
Yes, speak up for the poor and the helpless and see that they get justice.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:22.960
And I didn't know that was in the Bible until you said that to me, and it was very reassuring for me because if you're close to me at all, you know I'm on the hunt for justice.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.240
I feel like that's your mantra.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.559
That's just like my whole life monster in all spaces to make you a sharp that says that.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:29.359
No, we should.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:31.200
I love that idea, actually.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:34.240
I am the queen of of social justice.
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:36.559
I'm trying to get justice in some way.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.920
Speaking of that, sometimes people think it's not my problem, it's not my problem.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:53.440
But if you're going and sitting in a sermon where somebody is saying the things that JP Miller is saying, and if you haven't heard those things, you can go look them up.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.119
It's all available and go listen to those sermons.
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:01.440
They are very, very, very different than the sermons that we hear.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:02.400
Yeah, that you put it in.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:10.319
Well, it's it's more, and what she's alluding to is it was more like justifying his behavior, yeah, without anyone even knowing what his behavior was.
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:17.359
Well, he says, I don't know if this was in the documentary, but I have since seen other videos of his sermons.
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:24.880
And um, he says that if you ever want to know what's going on with me, it's in my sermons.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:34.799
So he's self-proclaiming that you know anything he's talking about, it it lines up with with what his life and what that's pretty actually that's pretty normal for pastors.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:47.279
Like that that's actually pretty normal because I mean I have friends that are pastors and they say like they're gonna talk about what's going on in their life or what they've experienced in that makes sense because that's just how we are.
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:48.000
That makes sense.
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:56.960
Think about that's like how we do our podcasts, like we experience things or we hear things, or you know, we watch show and then we talk about it, you know.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:57.920
So that's that's normal.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:02.720
That part's normal, but what's not normal is what he was talking about.
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:03.519
Well, exactly.
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:08.559
And my point is that you need to piece those pieces together full, like knowing that.
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:21.839
So if you start hearing things, like for example, one thing that he was saying is that if you don't give your husband enough sex, he's gonna go looking for it somewhere else, and basically insinuating that it's the wife's fault, you know.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.200
Yeah, which I think all women have heard that to some degree, even if it wasn't biblically in a biblical sense.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:35.200
I've definitely been in relationships where I was told if I did not have sex, they would go find it somewhere else.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:39.519
So yeah, and that's like so horribly wrong.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:40.720
It's very wrong.
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:41.519
Go go find it.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:53.039
I mean, literally, so one thing I did not know about this until I recorded, and I'll link this other podcast um that I did with Pastor Jeff because he very eloquently describes this.
00:29:53.119 --> 00:30:03.200
Um, but I feel like it needs to be said that sex is a reaffirmation of the covenant that you've made.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.359
So that's something that I never really thought of it that way.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.759
But that is two people coming together and and reaffirming that covenant that they have with each other.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:22.640
And so a part of that is like, okay, both parties they have to be keeping the covenant.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.920
Like, you know what I'm saying?
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.599
Like, like again, it's not just a one-sided deal.
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:36.880
Um, and wives, like, don't hear me wrong, because like you a lot of husbands, you know, like they that's their like peep they feel loved.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:42.000
Like, sex is very much a way that your husband feels loved.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:45.440
Like, well, I have there's a lot of misogyny based in that though.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.559
I mean, look at look at nature, for example.
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:51.920
Yeah, is it natural no one has sex with your I agree with that?
00:30:52.160 --> 00:31:01.119
The whole premise of of the male species in any across species would be to reproduce.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:02.160
Would you agree with that?
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:08.640
That part I can agree with, but and that is a natural piece of the biology that makes up men.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:31.839
The problem that we have is when that biology is then used to manipulate or control, and I think that's maybe what your problem is with too, is that the the natural way that God designed men to be is being used to manipulate, control, harm yes, others.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:32.799
That's the problem.
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:34.160
That is the problem, right?
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.599
And there is nothing wrong with sex.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:47.839
Actually, God designed sex to be something that is a good thing, is is a really good thing, but humans have destroyed that, obviously.
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:49.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.720
And and used it as a weapon.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:57.440
Well, there's so many other things that God created that He meant for good that people have used as a weapon.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.079
You know what I'm saying?
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.519
Like, there's so many, there's that's that's how human, that's how humans are because they're selfish.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:07.039
Yeah, that's always gonna happen.
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:17.759
And again, that's why it's important to have these conversations because none of these things that we're talking about are specific to being a pastor within a church.
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.839
This happens in other places, everywhere, everywhere.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:36.720
There's not a place that's about recognizing the signs, and we are we have intuition, and if we feel like something is wrong, then you might need to explore that.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:48.400
Like, I can't, I just think of all those people who were in that congregation that go home and do beat their wives, and then being reaffirmed by their pastor that what they're doing is okay.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:50.079
Yep.
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.640
Yeah, and it it is not okay.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.799
No, it it is not okay.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:01.279
That is not that is not sticking with the covenant that you have made with your spouse.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:09.759
And you really should honor you should be it should be an honor that you get to have that person in that way because you do have that covenant.
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:16.079
That I don't this is me, but I don't think that makes you entitled to it still.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:26.559
No, it doesn't make you entitled to it, but also the like on the on the flip side of the coin, like the Bible does say to wives, like, hey, don't withhold sex or use sex as a weapon for your husband either.
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:27.839
No, I I agree with that.
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:35.599
It literally goes both ways, so it's like, hey, you know, husbands, like you can't use that as a weapon, but wives neither can you.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.680
Yeah, like because so many women do that, and that is not okay either.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.359
Like, because honestly, that's not what sex was designed to do.
00:33:43.519 --> 00:34:03.359
However, I will say that if a husband is not treating his wife well, and you know, women are emotional creatures, and if you're not treating your heart well, you're she's not gonna want to have sex with you, you know, like that's the way you gotta create the both have to create the conditions for that.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:09.280
You have to use safety, it it's all about safety and trust.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:16.639
And obviously, if you're in a relationship that's anything but that, like that's a problem.
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:33.119
And yeah, I mean, I I just would say to anyone that's experiencing, especially especially Christians, like if you are behind closed doors experiencing abuse, like that is not okay.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:40.159
No, and again, we will put some resources down in the description box for you.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:57.039
Please reach out to us at carpalconfessions at podcast at gmail.com and we would be happy to talk to you, but don't go at it alone and do not believe for one second that that is what God wants for you because that is not his heart.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:58.480
It's not.
00:34:58.719 --> 00:34:59.039
No.
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.159
Um, would love to have more discussions about this.
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.119
We're at work.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:03.760
Yes.
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:08.480
But again, we are Mondays at 7 a.m.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:14.239
We are here to help women talk about these conversations that people just aren't talking about.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.280
And we hope that it gives you some freedom.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.079
We hope it gives you some peace and to let you know that you're not alone.
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.880
And yeah, I think that's that's all we have.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:25.760
Any last words?
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:26.719
Uh, I don't think so.
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:27.760
I think that covers it.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:28.320
All right.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.440
Well, happy Monday and have a great day.
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.400
Bye.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.879
With October being domestic abuse awareness month, we wanted to make sure that we shed some light on this, but you need to get somewhere safe.
00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:07.360
Yes.
00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:15.119
You don't, you do not need to be under the same roof as someone that is hurting you, hurting your kids.
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:17.120
That's not okay.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:23.199
Hello and good morning, and welcome back to Carpool Confessions Podcast.
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:24.879
I am Kelly Marie.
00:00:25.039 --> 00:00:28.000
And I'm Kate Shaw, and we are hitting the rope.
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:33.039
And we're super excited because we got new mics, so we're hoping that our audio is better.
00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:33.679
Yes.
00:00:33.920 --> 00:00:37.280
So please keep us updated on what your thoughts are there.
00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:45.119
We're constantly changing and shifting and trying new things and trying to make things better for everybody listening.
00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.399
And thank you for everybody who's listening, by the way.
00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:55.280
I get comments from people all the time that are talking about how this has helped them, and that is so encouraging for us.
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:56.640
It really is encouraging.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:08.079
I mean, and for me, it's actually been very healing because for those that don't know, I have been very open about the things I've been through for for a long time.
00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:12.079
I've written lots of stuff and put it on Facebook primarily.
00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:16.719
And I have received a lot of crap for that.
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I've been attacked over it.
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I've had people tell me I need to move on and get over the past, that I'm um being a victim and all of these things.
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And uh now I hear here I am talking about those same things on a whole different platform in a in a much bigger way, I think.
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Yeah, I think it it's been really healing for both of us.
00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:47.840
And from the feedback I've heard, it sounds like, you know, a lot of women are just really glad to be hearing these conversations.
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I think one of the quotes I heard from someone in the last week was, it's a weird world right now.
00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:54.879
Which it is.
00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:56.719
It is, it's so weird.
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And uh I think we're really in a space where authenticity is really, really needed instead of just sugarcoating everything.
00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:10.960
It it does nobody any type of service to sugarcoat these things.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:16.400
And you know, we need to talk about them in their rawness, no matter how vul vulnerable it is.
00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:24.879
Again, we're not saying that you have to do that, but there has to be people willing to step out into that, and that's what we're willing to do.
00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:25.759
Right.
00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:30.400
And to support us, subscribing is a huge thing.
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:38.879
Yes, you know, watching our videos, sharing our videos, liking our videos, all of that helps to get the word out, um, essentially about what we're doing.
00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:42.719
And so again, we are super close to 500 subscribers.
00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:43.120
Yeah.
00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:49.759
Love to get to that little marking point and and uh, you know, just see what God does here.
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:50.879
Absolutely.
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:58.080
And if you are somebody listening and you've seen us out in public and you're too scared to maybe come up to us, please come up to us.
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:05.919
If there's something that resonated with you and you feel like you really need to share that or you want to share a part of your story with us, please do that.
00:03:06.080 --> 00:03:09.199
We will we will step away with you if that's needed.
00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:16.639
We have done that before, and uh, I just don't want anybody that does see us to feel like they can't come up to us and and talk to us.
00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:18.400
Yeah, I love talking about it.
00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:18.879
It's fun.
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Yeah, I do too.
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Well, for today's episode, um, I watched a Netflix documentary that I think Kate watched because I feel like it's really important to talk about uh the context of what was going on in that documentary, and and just because so many other women and men suffer through those things.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:49.280
So the documentary that we watched was The Pastor's Wife, and that was really hard for me to watch.
00:03:49.439 --> 00:04:10.639
A lot of the themes that were displayed throughout that documentary, I have dealt with in my own life in various different ways, maybe not all through a romantic partner like Micah did, but in maybe you didn't experience everything that she did, but there's just a lot of themes that really stuck out to me.
00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:11.599
What about you, Kate?
00:04:11.759 --> 00:04:28.079
Yeah, and I think just if you haven't seen that documentary, the TLDR version is that Micah Miller was someone that started getting groomed very early um in her church.
00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:32.160
So the pastor, I think they probably met what when she was 13.
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:33.279
Yep, when she was 13.
00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:34.319
And he was married.
00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:49.839
And if you don't know what grooming is, it is not simply just being nice to someone, it's the process of building trust, gaining access, and getting them to depend on you and comply with you in some way.
00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:52.720
And this is done through a course of time.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:05:02.240
And I myself have experienced grooming um by two individuals, well, three actually, three different individuals I've experienced that with.
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:08.959
And um it's very disorienting because because of how it's done.
00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.600
It's it's really a manipulative practice, yeah, is what it is.
00:05:13.920 --> 00:05:15.199
Yeah, it really is.
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:32.560
And um ultimately what happened with Micah and why we're talking about this, because with October being domestic abuse awareness month, we wanted to make sure that we shed some light on this because um, you know, on the stage, this pastor was one thing, but behind closed doors, he was something completely else.
00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:46.079
And right, um, you know, we're not here to go through the whole entire story of Micah, but ultimately what this ended in was Micah's death uh by suicide is what they called it murder by suicide, I think, is what they've landed on.
00:05:47.759 --> 00:06:04.720
Um, but because of the deep level of abuse happening to her behind closed doors and you know, infidelity, all kinds of things that are just absolutely horrific to think of with a pastor, you know, a leader in a church, a trusted person.
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:05.360
Right.
00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.800
Um, this is why we wanted to have this conversation.
00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:20.560
Because I think, you know, some of the really big things that the themes that go along with this are important and we need to be talking about them.
00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:32.000
And I think some of the biggest red flags that you should make sure to pay attention to so that this kind of thing isn't happening in your sphere.
00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:32.399
Yeah.
00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:39.360
We that these are the kind of things that we want to talk about because ultimately this is happening way more often than we would like to do.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:07:10.959
And it's not just the churches either, but I will say it feels way worse when it is somebody like a pastor because they absolutely know better and they know what they're doing, and it's it's it makes me angry if I'm being perfectly honest, because using something like God and God's word to coerce people into despicable acts is depraved.
00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:12.720
There's no other word for it.
00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:30.240
And not only are you causing this person sexual trauma and physical trauma, you're causing them spiritual trauma, which is just awful to make somebody distrust something like God and what God's word is.
00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:34.959
But unfortunately, evil evil people are going to twist his word.
00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:39.120
And I experienced some of those things like I've discussed.
00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:44.879
Um, men are supposed to be the head of the household.
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:58.560
We're supposed to distrust everything that they do, and it can really be used to manipulate people and really force women, especially women, into sex.
00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:04.319
I think that's the most common use I see with God's word is forcing women into sex.
00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:09.759
And Micah was abused very sexually by her own husband.
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:10.240
Right.
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:22.000
Yeah, at one point I think he had her get on testosterone so that she could keep up with his wants for her sexually, and it it just was out of control.
00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.639
Um, and it's so sad.
00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:35.679
I think one of the biggest things that I took away after I watched this whole thing, I mean, there was a lot of things that obviously it it messed me up quite a bit launching, and I was like, this is crazy.
00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:54.720
But my first thought was you know, if someone is seeking or or wanting to know God, and they see this type of behavior, like this Netflix documentary, for example, because it's not the first and it's not the only one out there.
00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:32.000
No, but what a horrible representation of the church for people that don't know the church, yeah, you know, and that's that to me was it really affected me because I thought, oh my gosh, you know, people are going to think that's just you know, the church is getting a bad rep, and like there's all kinds of you all hear about all kinds of pastors getting caught in sexual sin and and everything else, but it's I think the point is is that you have to realize that these are people too.
00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:32.480
Yes.
00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:44.559
And when we're looking at leadership in a church especially, but any type of leadership, t people tend to get kind of rose-colored glasses when looking at people in authority.
00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:45.440
Absolutely.
00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.799
I think this was one of the things that made me the angriest.
00:09:49.279 --> 00:10:05.600
And I I've had a dream about this sort of situation, and that's you know, I was in this mall, what I would think is a mall, but it was just nothing but concrete with bright lights, and people are walking around like they would a mall.
00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:18.240
And all of a sudden, this man comes up to me and he just holds me to the ground and is holding me to the ground, and I'm trying to fight him, and everybody is just walking by, seeing this and doing nothing.
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:31.919
And that's been a real big theme in my life, and I I see it every day, not always in such massive extreme ways like we have with the pastor's wife, but it does happen.
00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:45.279
We are so conditioned to trust authority and to respect our elders that we feel like we can't call them out if we're recognizing something that feels off.
00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:46.720
And that's the other thing.
00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:50.960
We are we are so conditioned to not trust our intuition.
00:10:51.200 --> 00:11:08.799
So when I was watching this documentary and they played some of his sermons, I was disgusted, I was appalled, it made me so angry because why wasn't anybody calling this person out?
00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:09.039
Yeah.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:15.919
Because had had I, I'm as we all know, if you've listened this far, I just started going to church a little over a year ago.
00:11:16.159 --> 00:11:26.799
Had I showed up with the trauma that I have and heard what this man was saying, I would have been like, Kate, what is wrong with you and all of your people?
00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:27.840
Because I'm leafy.
00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:38.240
That's so funny you should say that, because that was the other thing that really bothered me about this was I just could not fathom why people were going to that church.
00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:38.720
Right.
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:46.879
You know, I so people were like blindly following this person who, by the way, I I don't love church politics.
00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:47.360
Okay.
00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:54.320
But when I heard that there was like literally no checks and balances for accountability for this person, I thought, okay, this is more of a cult.
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:55.279
You know what I'm saying?
00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:56.000
Yeah.
00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.039
Like, I mean I mean, do you want to talk about that?
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:03.279
Because I'm not, I honestly didn't know there's like checks and balances.
00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:04.799
Well, there should be.
00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:12.320
There should be, you know, like at our church, there's there's elders which are essentially serve as a board, right?
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.240
So there's no one person that's just in charge that has all the power.
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:21.360
You know, we have a lead pastor, but ultimately he's accountable to the board, right?
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:33.440
So if something is going awry, there is accountability in place for anyone that is, you know, in our church doing work, right?
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:39.120
So same thing goes for um, you know, there's other churches have different ways of doing it.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:39.919
I mean, right.
00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:50.960
Some churches are like congregation-led, like you'll have these business meetings that everybody's at, but there should still be a level of accountability for the person in charge, right?
00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:51.600
Period.
00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:56.399
Like that that's just like you get people in power, you're gonna have problems, you know.
00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:04.399
And um, regardless of what that looks like, if that means that you know, some some churches, you know, have different levels, like they have different layers.
00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:14.080
Like I know the Catholic Church has has different layers of authority, or they'll have like kind of more of a a regional area that's kind of in charge of the local diocese.
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:15.039
I'm I may be butcher.
00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:20.480
Sorry if you're Catholic and I'm butcher butchering this, I'm not Catholic, but I just know that there's accountability there.
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:20.879
Right.
00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:25.840
And um, and there should be because otherwise what happened is gonna happen.
00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:27.679
You're gonna have things like this happen.
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:56.559
And I think that that was one of the things that came up when one of the other pastors that was standing in trying to help the church get through this situation, not realizing the extent of the situation, she tried, she found out and she tried to go to the elders to, you know, bring this concern up, but because there was no governance in place, or he just had all these people in place to, you know, be yes men, you know what I'm saying?
00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.480
Like which is highly possible, um, there was nothing done.
00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:20.960
They they turned a blind eye to it because they were all his friends, you know, and so it's like, I don't know, I just think I think there has to be some sort of governance in place, but you also, as a believer, you have a responsibility for noticing those red flags, and part of that is knowing the word of God and what he has to say.
00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:28.480
It's it's just amazing to me how twisted they can use God's word for such evil.
00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:29.279
Yes.
00:14:29.519 --> 00:14:43.360
I think that's what anchored me a lot too was I have experienced that, you know, being told that a father has the right to take their daughter's virginity because that's what God would want.
00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.639
You know, that's yeah.
00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:57.279
So it's I think it's especially depraved when religion is involved because how are you using somebody who's so loving?
00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:10.080
And I also think it's important to mention that a lot of people stay in bad relationships because they think that's what God wants now.
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.200
I I I'm not well versed on God's word.
00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.480
I'm gonna be 100%.
00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:19.440
That's why a lot of times you see me lean on Kate for that, because I'm still learning myself.
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:21.039
But still learning too.
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:24.159
Yeah, to be clear, yeah.
00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:29.840
But I know that he doesn't want anything that hurts us.
00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:30.960
You're right.
00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:42.559
Actually, uh Pastor Jeff and I did a uh series on marriage, and we had an episode about divorce.
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:45.039
Okay because this is like a big topic with the church.
00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.480
It is right a lot of people think they can't get a divorce.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:49.360
Exactly.
00:15:49.440 --> 00:16:15.600
And here's the thing you know, people like to throw throw around scriptures, um, especially especially like when Moses was giving the Israelites these these rules about divorce, you know, people people like to throw these things around, but but the reality is is that in that time people used to divorce women for anything.
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:19.039
I don't like their cooking, so I'm gonna go find me another wife.
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:25.759
I don't, you know, I don't you know, whatever it is, like you're getting too fat, uh we're gonna divorce.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:26.960
Like, I'm not even joking.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.559
Like it was like just that.
00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:29.759
It was it meant nothing.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.000
I know that I kept thinking about that when we were talking about Samson.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:35.919
Yeah, that weirdo Samson.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:46.000
Like the covenant of marriage didn't mean anything, and so you know, God puts structure in place to for a reason, for a purpose.
00:16:46.159 --> 00:17:09.839
Because yes, marriage is a covenant, marriage should be viewed as a covenant, but there are also things about God's character and within the Bible that also suggests that God is not okay with hurting people, God is not okay with abusing people that don't have the strength to fight back, you know what I'm saying?
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:11.440
Or in general.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:22.160
So, yeah, I think the big thing about marriage is that, you know, and this could be a whole nother conversation, and it probably should be, but marriage is a covenant relationship.
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:28.559
And so, just like in the Bible, it says for women, people like to throw this submissive submission thing out.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:28.960
Yeah.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:37.920
And I'm telling you right now, yes, like there is a structural reason in a marriage for the fact that when you sort of have too many cooks in the kitchen, everybody knows this.
00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:40.079
When you have too many cooks in the kitchen, you have a problem.
00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:47.839
So, yes, having some sort of structural understanding of like who's gonna make the final call, yes, that makes perfect sense.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:54.640
But submission does not mean allowing someone else to abuse you.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:56.079
That is not what that means.
00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:12.400
Submission does not mean you don't have the authority or the ability to have some sort of um ability to have dignity and to have your own boundaries respected.
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:14.720
That's not what that means at all, right?
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:15.599
At all.
00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:23.440
Um, and because submission is thrown around so much, I think people, men specifically, yes, take advantage of that.
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:31.039
And so many relationships behind closed doors in the church are using God's word as a weapon to control.
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.480
And that's the the reality of it.
00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:50.400
I've heard people in my sphere like it makes me kind of sick because it's like people in my sphere will tell my husband, oh well, I I wish my wife would be uh a Christian like your wife because she knows her place kind of situation.
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:51.359
Are you serious?
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.119
And yeah, and I'm like, that is not at all how that works.
00:18:55.599 --> 00:19:03.599
Oh marriage is a partnership, marriage is a covenant, and a part of a covenant is that you have two people involved in the covenant, right?
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:10.640
Where there's mutual respect means that you cannot just deny the other half of the covenant.
00:19:10.799 --> 00:19:17.440
The the wife does have a position, the wife does have a role as a helper to her husband, okay?
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:24.640
But the husband also has a role to protect his wife and to provide for his wife and to love his wife.
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:28.559
And so many times I feel like that piece gets missed.
00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:29.519
Yes, it does.
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:38.000
So that's the big problem that I have with conversations about this in the church, is that we're not looking at the whole picture.
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:42.160
No, you know, and I don't know, uh again, we could have a whole we probably will.
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.119
We will have a whole nother episode on this because I think so too.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:48.880
There's a lot to say, and yeah, honestly, as you're like talking more about this too.
00:19:48.960 --> 00:20:18.000
I mean, it's another reason why I stayed away from church as well, because I didn't want to go to church and just be told more of what I've heard of in my childhood, and that essentially that as a woman, I have no agency of my own body, that once you're with the man, your body belongs to him, and that in in the sense that he can do whatever he wants with it, and so that was always a problem for me and kept me away.
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:18.880
I could see that.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:27.920
Well, see, the the biblical marriage is supposed to be a representation of Christ's love for his church, right?
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:58.960
Christ is the head of the church, and the way you see Christ behaving towards the shirt the church should be a reflection of the way that you see the husband uh behaving towards his wife, and the way that we as the church behave towards Christ as we submit to Christ in our lives, in our, you know, everything we do, we do it because we want, we want to, because we love, because we love Jesus, because we love what his sacrifice for us.
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.279
Like that is the sacrificial relationship that marriage is designed to be like.
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:10.240
It's not, it's not designed to be, well, I and granted, this is how humans have made religion too.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:10.640
Right.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:14.640
They've made religion very, well, I have to check a box, I have to do this, I have to do that.
00:21:14.799 --> 00:21:19.039
Well, people are doing the same thing in marriage, they're doing the same exact thing, right?
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.200
And it's because people like structure.
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.119
Humans like stability and structure, okay?
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:51.920
And I think that's why so many people have trouble with the Bible when it comes to conversations about things like divorce, is because we want a rigid answer, but there are many, many situations where you cannot justify someone doing evil to someone else.
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:54.480
Yeah, there's no justification for that.
00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:59.759
And so if you're a woman listening to this and you're being abused.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:07.440
I want you to really sit and think about what we've talked about in this podcast because Jesus does not want that for you.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:19.440
No, this is not a matter of you guys are having financial agreement, disagreements, or having maybe some discourse over how raising your kids, or you know, we get in bad moods sometimes.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:27.279
We're talking about abuse, about somebody who thinks they have authority over your body or your mind.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:28.240
Or your mind.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:29.680
They do not.
00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:30.559
Yeah.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.480
And I mean, here's the thing: we should always try for reconciliation.
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.519
That should always be on the table.
00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.359
Because people can change, but you need to get somewhere safe.
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:41.920
Yes.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:49.599
You don't, you do not need to be under the same roof as someone that is hurting you, hurting your kids.
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:51.279
That's not okay.
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:52.720
It's not okay.
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:55.119
And I know it, I know it is hard.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:56.480
Absolutely hard.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:56.799
Yep.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.440
I know how to do it.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:59.759
Well, I mean, look, I mean, and that's the other thing.
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:01.279
It's not easy to leave.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:02.640
Micah did try to leave.
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.359
She did.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:03.839
Yeah.
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:13.039
And so many other women tried to leave, but then the way the laws are written, they have not caught up to with how people abuse.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:22.960
Just like in Missouri last month or earlier this month, um grooming just became against the law in our own state.
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:28.079
So what that means is I can't believe that was the when I read that, I was like, really?
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:29.839
Like that was okay before.
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:34.880
Okay, so we haven't got to this part of my story, but my dad does go to prison for what he did.
00:23:35.039 --> 00:23:36.640
And I went to court against him.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:40.400
I am very well versed in how that all works.
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:53.920
And it's just so angry that women cannot get away, that something so extreme has to happen before anybody takes a look.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:54.319
Yeah.
00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.640
That is so infuriating to me.
00:23:57.039 --> 00:24:05.920
Um and and he got her committed into a hospital while they were separated just because he was made they were married.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:08.319
That's really, really scary.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:09.920
It is really scary.
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:32.880
And I I would think, I would like to think that she probably did not have the mental illness that she thought she had, but rather that her body and mind were reacting, how anybody else's body and mind would act in a very traumatic situation.
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:44.720
So a lot of these mental illnesses that we see or that people think they have are adaptations from living in a really bad environment, whatever that might have looked like for you.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:46.079
Yeah.
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:48.960
Yeah, it's so hard.
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.319
It's so hard.
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.880
And there are resources too, by the way.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:09.440
If you're somebody that is in an abusive situation, uh, we'll include that information in the description if you're watching on YouTube or the description if you're if you're listening on a on a streaming platform.
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:12.240
But gosh, you have to speak up.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:25.200
And and here's the thing, like, okay, I say that, but it is so incredibly hard when you're in a controlling relationship to speak up because A, you don't want to draw drag other people into your drama.
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:25.599
Right.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:33.920
And B, you don't want people to see you as weak or not faithful or you know what I'm saying?
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:34.319
Yeah.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.839
Like, so it's it's incredibly hard to reach out.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.200
And also a lot of times I feel like you don't want people to view your husband in a specific way.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.559
And so I still love them.
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:46.880
Yeah.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:48.000
As weird as it is.
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:48.799
No, you do.
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:53.839
It that doesn't just go away because you're being abused, right?
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:54.559
Necessarily.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:02.799
Now, a lot of times women do emotionally leave before they finally do leave.
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:04.400
That is a very real thing.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:19.440
All I can say is for those around, like if you're in church and you've got a friend and you start to feel like something is off, you need to say something.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:20.079
Yes.
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:31.519
I know it's hard, especially when you're talking about a person in a position of power or a person of especially religious authority to even question that kind of thing.
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:32.240
Yeah.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.440
But we have to.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.480
Yeah, we have to.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:40.000
We've gotten too complacent as a society by just sitting on sidelines, not saying anything.
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:42.400
That kind of thing has to stop.
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:46.960
We have to work towards using our voices.
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.440
And what is I sent you a verse this morning.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:50.319
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:53.200
And um, I've already got Proverbs 31.
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.440
Uh, I don't remember exactly what verse it was.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:56.559
You can read it for us.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:02.880
It's Proverbs 31, 8 through 9, and it says, speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:06.160
Ensure justice for those being crushed.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.720
Yes, speak up for the poor and the helpless and see that they get justice.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:22.960
And I didn't know that was in the Bible until you said that to me, and it was very reassuring for me because if you're close to me at all, you know I'm on the hunt for justice.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.240
I feel like that's your mantra.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.559
That's just like my whole life monster in all spaces to make you a sharp that says that.
00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:29.359
No, we should.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:31.200
I love that idea, actually.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:34.240
I am the queen of of social justice.
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:36.559
I'm trying to get justice in some way.
00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.920
Speaking of that, sometimes people think it's not my problem, it's not my problem.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:53.440
But if you're going and sitting in a sermon where somebody is saying the things that JP Miller is saying, and if you haven't heard those things, you can go look them up.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.119
It's all available and go listen to those sermons.
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:01.440
They are very, very, very different than the sermons that we hear.
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:02.400
Yeah, that you put it in.
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:10.319
Well, it's it's more, and what she's alluding to is it was more like justifying his behavior, yeah, without anyone even knowing what his behavior was.
00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:17.359
Well, he says, I don't know if this was in the documentary, but I have since seen other videos of his sermons.
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:24.880
And um, he says that if you ever want to know what's going on with me, it's in my sermons.
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:34.799
So he's self-proclaiming that you know anything he's talking about, it it lines up with with what his life and what that's pretty actually that's pretty normal for pastors.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:47.279
Like that that's actually pretty normal because I mean I have friends that are pastors and they say like they're gonna talk about what's going on in their life or what they've experienced in that makes sense because that's just how we are.
00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:48.000
That makes sense.
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:56.960
Think about that's like how we do our podcasts, like we experience things or we hear things, or you know, we watch show and then we talk about it, you know.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:57.920
So that's that's normal.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:02.720
That part's normal, but what's not normal is what he was talking about.
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:03.519
Well, exactly.
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:08.559
And my point is that you need to piece those pieces together full, like knowing that.
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:21.839
So if you start hearing things, like for example, one thing that he was saying is that if you don't give your husband enough sex, he's gonna go looking for it somewhere else, and basically insinuating that it's the wife's fault, you know.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:29.200
Yeah, which I think all women have heard that to some degree, even if it wasn't biblically in a biblical sense.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:35.200
I've definitely been in relationships where I was told if I did not have sex, they would go find it somewhere else.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:39.519
So yeah, and that's like so horribly wrong.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:40.720
It's very wrong.
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:41.519
Go go find it.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:53.039
I mean, literally, so one thing I did not know about this until I recorded, and I'll link this other podcast um that I did with Pastor Jeff because he very eloquently describes this.
00:29:53.119 --> 00:30:03.200
Um, but I feel like it needs to be said that sex is a reaffirmation of the covenant that you've made.
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.359
So that's something that I never really thought of it that way.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.759
But that is two people coming together and and reaffirming that covenant that they have with each other.
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:22.640
And so a part of that is like, okay, both parties they have to be keeping the covenant.
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:23.920
Like, you know what I'm saying?
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:27.599
Like, like again, it's not just a one-sided deal.
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:36.880
Um, and wives, like, don't hear me wrong, because like you a lot of husbands, you know, like they that's their like peep they feel loved.
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:42.000
Like, sex is very much a way that your husband feels loved.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:45.440
Like, well, I have there's a lot of misogyny based in that though.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.559
I mean, look at look at nature, for example.
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:51.920
Yeah, is it natural no one has sex with your I agree with that?
00:30:52.160 --> 00:31:01.119
The whole premise of of the male species in any across species would be to reproduce.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:02.160
Would you agree with that?
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:08.640
That part I can agree with, but and that is a natural piece of the biology that makes up men.
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:31.839
The problem that we have is when that biology is then used to manipulate or control, and I think that's maybe what your problem is with too, is that the the natural way that God designed men to be is being used to manipulate, control, harm yes, others.
00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:32.799
That's the problem.
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:34.160
That is the problem, right?
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:37.599
And there is nothing wrong with sex.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:47.839
Actually, God designed sex to be something that is a good thing, is is a really good thing, but humans have destroyed that, obviously.
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:49.359
Yeah, absolutely.
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:52.720
And and used it as a weapon.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:57.440
Well, there's so many other things that God created that He meant for good that people have used as a weapon.
00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:00.079
You know what I'm saying?
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.519
Like, there's so many, there's that's that's how human, that's how humans are because they're selfish.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:07.039
Yeah, that's always gonna happen.
00:32:07.119 --> 00:32:17.759
And again, that's why it's important to have these conversations because none of these things that we're talking about are specific to being a pastor within a church.
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.839
This happens in other places, everywhere, everywhere.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:36.720
There's not a place that's about recognizing the signs, and we are we have intuition, and if we feel like something is wrong, then you might need to explore that.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:48.400
Like, I can't, I just think of all those people who were in that congregation that go home and do beat their wives, and then being reaffirmed by their pastor that what they're doing is okay.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:50.079
Yep.
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.640
Yeah, and it it is not okay.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.799
No, it it is not okay.
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:01.279
That is not that is not sticking with the covenant that you have made with your spouse.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:09.759
And you really should honor you should be it should be an honor that you get to have that person in that way because you do have that covenant.
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:16.079
That I don't this is me, but I don't think that makes you entitled to it still.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:26.559
No, it doesn't make you entitled to it, but also the like on the on the flip side of the coin, like the Bible does say to wives, like, hey, don't withhold sex or use sex as a weapon for your husband either.
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:27.839
No, I I agree with that.
00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:35.599
It literally goes both ways, so it's like, hey, you know, husbands, like you can't use that as a weapon, but wives neither can you.
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:39.680
Yeah, like because so many women do that, and that is not okay either.
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:43.359
Like, because honestly, that's not what sex was designed to do.
00:33:43.519 --> 00:34:03.359
However, I will say that if a husband is not treating his wife well, and you know, women are emotional creatures, and if you're not treating your heart well, you're she's not gonna want to have sex with you, you know, like that's the way you gotta create the both have to create the conditions for that.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:09.280
You have to use safety, it it's all about safety and trust.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:16.639
And obviously, if you're in a relationship that's anything but that, like that's a problem.
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:33.119
And yeah, I mean, I I just would say to anyone that's experiencing, especially especially Christians, like if you are behind closed doors experiencing abuse, like that is not okay.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:40.159
No, and again, we will put some resources down in the description box for you.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:57.039
Please reach out to us at carpalconfessions at podcast at gmail.com and we would be happy to talk to you, but don't go at it alone and do not believe for one second that that is what God wants for you because that is not his heart.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:58.480
It's not.
00:34:58.719 --> 00:34:59.039
No.
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.159
Um, would love to have more discussions about this.
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:03.119
We're at work.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:03.760
Yes.
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:08.480
But again, we are Mondays at 7 a.m.
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:14.239
We are here to help women talk about these conversations that people just aren't talking about.
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.280
And we hope that it gives you some freedom.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.079
We hope it gives you some peace and to let you know that you're not alone.
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.880
And yeah, I think that's that's all we have.
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:25.760
Any last words?
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:26.719
Uh, I don't think so.
00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:27.760
I think that covers it.
00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:28.320
All right.
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:31.440
Well, happy Monday and have a great day.
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:32.400
Bye.
