Devils Insider - 40th Anniversary Series - Championship Winning Captains

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Today's podcast is brought to you by Minerva Hearing.
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Hear the cheers, protect your ears.
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Shumai Paul Akroiso.
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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Devils Insider, your Card of Devils official podcast.
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Dan Roderick, alongside Gareth Hewish and Neil Francis.
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Guys, I'm going to hold the pleasantries for today because we've got a very busy show and a lot to get through.
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So we'll jump into it straight away.
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And we're going to talk about the weekend quickly from the weekend just gone.
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Devils, of course, beat Guilford in on opening night and then lose up in Coventry on Sunday.
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So a lot to cover.
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Gaz will start with Saturday.
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Good win for the Devils, 3-1.
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Hard-earned one as well.
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Really hard earned.
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Two battling teams, two teams with uh very similar ethos.
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I I felt during it.
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Um Guilford, three big uh players down on the night, and uh I I think that played into how the game was was played a little bit.
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I think they were maybe a little bit more reserved uh and a little less free-flowing and uh sort of uh adventurous than that they would have been, and they made life difficult.
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We we had to break them down.
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But Perseverance was there all night.
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Um, a particularly good second period, uh I thought from us, which I think paid off in the end.
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I think we put a lot of sort of mileage and money in the bank in that second period to break things down.
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Um, you want to start with a win.
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That's it, that's the name of the game.
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They get points on the board, uh, and we did that.
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So on our basis, 60 minutes, hard work, two points, happy days.
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Franny Sanny opened the scoring, Cole Sanford, of course, against the Devils.
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And uh, I mean you could have bookmarked that one really to for him to score against against us.
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Yeah, it always seems to happen, and we called it on uh on on Insider the the week before, said you know, returning players they either score or get thrown out.
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He scored, you know, the most fortunate goal he'll score all season, where it was a center pass deflected off the stick or skater Brandon Esther's.
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Um, but nonetheless, he'll have been happy with that.
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Um but yeah, I thought it was a really good start from Guildford.
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You know, they were short, but they had nine quality forwards out there, and they were absolutely buzzing.
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Um as the game sort of went on, I just felt if the devils cannot give up anything cheap, then you know the legs are probably gonna burn out a little bit from Guilford.
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And yeah, it was just really I mean, that second goal for the Devils was was crucial.
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And I thought once we had that, yeah, I kind of knew we were gonna see the game out because if Guilford get that goal, then they could you know sit back in their end and just defend for their lives and sort of almost save their legs that way from having to push for the game as it was.
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They were chasing the game, and that played into the devil's hands.
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But I mean, overall, I think the fact that Guildford were those three players down that suited Guildford a little bit more.
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I think the Devils would have wanted a bit more of a physical confrontation, and as it turned out, the Devils ended up taking you know a few too many penalties and gave Guildford a lot of opportunity on the power play.
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Uh Devils PK looked really good.
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And it was frustrating, wasn't it, during the game that there were probably two or three flash points where it looked like the game might tip over into a bit more physicality and a bit more personal battles.
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And I think from a coach's perspective, Paul Dixon will probably be really happy with his bench, so they didn't give in to that because I I think there were a couple of moments where there was a temptation to do so, and I think if it had become that kind of atmosphere, the crowd was excellent anyway.
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I think they would have gone up a level, and I think uh maybe Guilford would have lost a bit more of their composure.
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Devils they had to be patient for for the two goals they did get, and and and Olashevsky takes his really nicely.
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Welsh as well on on the on the rush takes his well as well.
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So, you know, in games like that, and when you know that maybe you're playing someone whose legs are gonna go away from them eventually, that's the aim of the game, really, isn't it, Franny?
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Is is just waiting for that moment and when you do get the chance, taking it.
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Yeah, and it was a really well-taken chance by Oli, and he seems to be in a rich vein at the moment, which is brilliant.
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And you know, what can we say about the man that causes the goal?
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It's uh a 38-year-old Joey Martin chasing down uh almost a lost cause.
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D-Man looked fairly in control, um, but you know, he forces the turnover.
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Not only does he do that, he's got that great vision to put it on the tape of Ollie.
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Uh, Oli's still got a lot to do and had a great finish on that.
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So yeah, I thought that was a really nice one.
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Yeah, Devils they take the win in the end, like we say, very hard and a good win to start the season.
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We'll just quick chat quickly about Sunday now as well.
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So the Devils headed up to Coventry, they lose 3-2 on the night, a frustrating evening.
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Gaz, everything that maybe that was positive about the the Guilford game, there was then frustrations equally for the Coventry one.
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Yeah, it was it was a I felt it was a disappointing performance on on Sunday for for me.
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It just it felt very flat, and uh that is something that we haven't really seen a lot of over the past few weeks.
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And you know, it coming up against Coventry, they would they got a big loss on Saturday up in Sheffield, and part of me wondered, can we try and play into that lack of confidence, maybe that could be there with an early couple of shifts and and test that that resolve.
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And I did I didn't feel that we took the initiative enough to try and do that, and then once you keep it close and you're in it's a home opener for for the Blaze, and they started to sort of get into a rhythm as well, and then you're kind of in a battle of work ethic, really.
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You're in a war of attrition, who who's gonna sort of out outstay this.
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And again, I I thought going into the third period, I thought we've had a longer preseason, maybe our fitness is a little bit better, but in fairness of Coventry, they stayed with us and uh they managed to to get that elusive uh and important final goal.
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But I yeah, it I think it's the initiative thing for me.
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I I felt that there was times in that game where we needed to try and change the rhythm of things and try and sort of put a bit of doubt in in the Coventry Blaze, and it didn't quite happen.
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So uh yeah, it a shame and and we can't really have many more performances like that.
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Yeah, I'd agree.
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Uh Franny, it it's easy maybe sometimes to use the excuse of you've got goalie as an excuse for losing.
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Uh the Blaze goalie Cisu Haikero was very good, and it was probably gonna take some special to beat him.
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And and and the Devils did do that initially.
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Bailey Headwood was a lovely goal and well taken for his first pro one.
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But yeah, in games like that, when you are uh up against it with a goalie who was clearly in good form, you maybe want to see them try a few different things as well.
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Yeah, I think um that would be my my criticism is I don't think we put him under enough pressure.
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Um, yes, he played really well, but I I felt that we didn't adjust to the game enough to, you know, we had the lead, and I think you've got to keep on pushing for that, and we needed to get a third goal on the board.
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Uh, and I I don't know, I just seem to be a little bit too passive, not direct.
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And you know, we've spoken about what we wanted to change this year, and it's you know getting a bit more uh pucks dragged to net to create things happen.
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And when you have a hot goalie that's seeing the puck really well, that's where sometimes you've got to drop the shoulder, drag pucks to the net, and cause a bit of chaos.
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And I don't think that we did that anywhere near enough against Coventry, and sure enough, um got bitten there in the third period.
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And that's the the disappointing thing for me is from the long preseason um being ahead of uh other teams in where we are in our preparation.
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We've let two points slip, and as we know from last year, it all these points are vital when it comes to the end of the group stages of the Challenge Cup.
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So it feels very much like a missed opportunity.
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Like you said, uh Coventry had a you know a hump in the night before against uh Sheffield, so you know they would have been somewhat fragile.
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So I think I I just want to see a little bit more of a killer instinct to jump all over that and to just find a way, find a way to dominate them.
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And if that means scoring some scrappy goals, then yeah, brilliant, you know, do it on the road.
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But yeah, I I just want us to show a bit more bit more uh off the front foot on the road.
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Paul Thompson, in his interview with me last week went out on the Devil's YouTube channel, he challenged the fourth line to step up a little bit.
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He said he'd liked what he's seen, but he wanted more from them.
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And then you know, they they get that goal Hayward from Sacrutini.
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And I think they they they have, I feel, stepped up over this weekend just gone.
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Yeah, and it's been difficult for them because neither team had a fourth line.
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So when you're looking at your line matches, there wasn't a line to match them with.
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And you know, you you're gonna remember our fourth line is you know pretty inexperienced at this level, it's their first time as a unit together.
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Yes, we've got the experience of Ben Davis, but both Bailey and Jake are in their first full pro seasons, so you know you've got to be careful about throwing them up against seasoned players, but you know, they have done a great job when they're out there, but there's only so many kind of shifts you can give um when you're going against a team that have got only three lines instead of the four.
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So a bit unfortunate for them, but when they did get the opportunity, yeah, I thought they made the most of it.
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Particularly Sunday, I thought uh Bailey Hayward was one of the uh the only players who've tried to inject a bit of a quicker pace to proceedings and trying to quicken things up and move the game a bit a bit quicker.
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And then to me, that was exactly what was needed.
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So yeah, probably in terms of his his pro uh performances in the league, that that'd be right up there for me, Hayward on Sunday, and thoroughly deserved his man of the match and took his goal extremely well.
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He did indeed.
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The changing point maybe in the game was was of course the the major penalty against Brandt.
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I think you know, even though the Devils didn't concede on that major penalty, it probably took the wind out their sails a little bit and just left them a little flat-footed going into the third.
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Yeah, I mean that those uh difficult ones, aren't they?
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I mean, there was uh a questionable hit on Barrow.
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You know, Barrow had his back slightly turned and gets hit into the boards.
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And you know, for how many years have we been crying for um people to be held account for stuff like that?
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And Riley Brandt does that.
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I think on the call itself, if you're not calling the hit, if you're not calling anything on the hit, then Brandt gets a two-minute.
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If you're gonna call the hit, then give him a five minute.
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I don't I don't think giving a straight five and nothing the other way, you know, was was the right call on the night.
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And then you know, there were other incidents that went unpunished, you know.
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A lot of people would have seen the the clip of Sacratini in the back of the net and he gets uh a pile driver into the back of the head when he's on the ice.
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So, you know, where's that call if you're gonna throw somebody out for what you think is going over the top when then you've got to call it both ways.
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But like you say, Devils didn't concede on that.
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Penalty kill again was was good that night.
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I think it was one uh power play goal conceded, um off quite a few kills again.
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Uh, but the devils did weather the storm after that, and I think when you are a goal up on the road and you know you you want to be serious, then you've got to find a way to get over the line.
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Yeah, and the Blaze eventually get the two goals in the third period and take the win.
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And and like we say, a frustrating weekend for the Devils, two points on the weekend.
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I'm gonna I'm gonna whisper it because it became a big topic of discussion last year.
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The power play was not clicking brilliantly on the weekend.
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And you know, obviously it's early, and you don't want to like you know make it a thing too early, but to go over six on the weekend, or for five, sorry, on the Sunday game is is maybe an area that could be improved on.
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Yeah, it is.
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I I did think Fournier looked good on that the power play, uh, you know, playing that point and and moving the pack quickly.
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And I think he's really added something to that that power play since he came on to it the halfway through last year.
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So I I didn't feel watching the power play that it wasn't gonna do something where times last year I would kind of maybe roll my eyes when we had a power play in the disappointment that we wouldn't do anything for two minutes.
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So uh it's disappointing not to uh sort of convert on the power play, but I still liked things that I saw on it, and I I think it's gonna be okay.
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Yeah, same for me, guys.
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I'd be more worried if I didn't see anything get created on there, yeah.
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You know, we didn't get that power play goal or a couple of power play goals, but I think we've seen enough in pre-season, and and remember power plays are one of the last things that you kind of implement as your pre-season goes on.
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Um, but we've seen enough of it, we've seen some really good movement.
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We have seen quite a few power play goals in pre-season, um, and certainly over the weekend on the opportunities that we did have, not many on the the Saturday night, but a few more on the Sunday.
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Um, you know, there's there's enough movement and promise there.
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Okay, the finishes weren't there, but uh the last thing you want is to kind of get into your own head when you don't can when you don't convert those chances.
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Jess, we've got to do it this weekend.
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We do indeed.
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Like we say, two points from the opening weekend for the Devils, and and and probably the biggest storyline that came out of this weekend, of course, was as we've made reference to that the the assist on Olashewski's goal on Saturday.
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Joey Martin gets his 700th point in elite league action.
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And uh I caught up with him a little bit earlier this week about that.
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Joey, here we are at the arena, and uh we're a couple of days on from you hitting your 700th point in a devil's in uniform and in the elite league.
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And and first of all, congratulations.
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But second of all, how did it feel to get over that mark?
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Thank you.
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Uh to be honest, I wasn't really aware of the milestone that that night, but you know, obviously it's something that I'm proud of.
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I don't really think it's something you think too much of while you're playing.
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I think it's one of those things that when you're done playing hockey, you'll reflect on and and cherish a little more.
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But you know, right now it's it's just kind of like focusing on on every day.
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So definitely proud, but you know, I'll cherish it one day for sure.
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Uh I mean my next question was gonna be, you know, did were you aware that the the milestone was coming up?
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And and then do do you keep any idea or any kind of track of of where you're at with that stuff, or is it just about the on-ice for you?
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Personally, I think I used to a little bit more when I was younger, but now I I don't really at all.
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I'm just kind of more focused, uh kind of the task at hand, really.
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I think I've found my later years that if I just kind of focus on playing my game and doing what I need to do, the production will hopefully come.
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Um, and that's just kind of what I focus on at the moment.
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Tell me a little bit about the play itself, you know.
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Uh the the devils you'd been pushing for for that that second goal in the game.
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And and to so to get it in that moment was really big.
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But tell me from your perspective, what you remember at that moment.
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Yeah, I just remember obviously the you know, it was a tight game.
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We were getting a lot of looks, but we weren't uh able to capitalize.
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Just remember that that play, you know, we got a puck in deep, and uh I was just on the four check and thought, you know, that defender was gonna try to make a pass.
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I kind of just put my stick in an area.
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I thought he would put the puck and luckily batted it down, and Olachevsky was in the perfect spot, and then he, you know, he had a great finish.
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He went upstairs with it.
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So good timely goal.
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Um, definitely a big one.
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That uh that partnership or that that I guess that trio you've had of you, Olyshewski and Josh McDonald has been working really well so far.
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What what what sports clicking with you guys?
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Yeah, those are very good hockey players, they work very hard, they're very smart, and I think we're only becoming more and more comfortable with each other the more we learn each other's tendencies.
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That's one thing.
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We're always communicating, we're always talking, we're always trying to help each other out.
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And I like I think our chemistry just keeps getting stronger because of that.
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We're in the midst of of the 40th anniversary celebrations, you know.
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That this this interview will be in a part of a 40th anniversary podcast as well.
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And and so how does it feel to have contributed not just on the weekend, the piece of history, but a piece of history to the devils generally from from all your contributions over the years?
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I feel extremely grateful to be part of this club and you know, all the things that we've accomplished over the years has been truly just memorable.
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Um, so happy to be able to celebrate all those moments with all these people in this organization, from the owners, you know, to the management to fans.
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There's so many good people in this organization that I feel like it's so gratifying to win when you see everybody involved in helping a helping hand in all those championships.
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We saw the the the officials did throw the puck over to Thomas Murdy.
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Is that one you're gonna keep a hold of?
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Yeah, I do have it at home.
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I'll give it to my son eventually.
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He'll have no idea what it represents, but he'll he'll see the devil's logo and he'll be happy.
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So it'll be a special moment.
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Obviously, in in the middle of season, it's difficult to maybe to reflect and to sit back because you know the next game is so quick after.
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But but do do you take time maybe in the summers to to reflect on things like these, achievements like these and and moments like these?
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Um personally not.
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I don't often think about the personal accolades, not at the moment.
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Like I said, for sure down the line, that'll be something I I definitely reflect on and and will look at.
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But in the summer times and downtime, I think it's just kind of looking forward, to be honest.
00:16:54.320 --> 00:17:02.240
It's wanting to make sure that I'm at my best to be able to help contribute to hopefully uh, you know, to provide more championships for this club.
00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:06.720
I uh I did a little bit of research because I was I was intrigued to know, you know, that was obviously a 700th point.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.519
Your very first point was there was a goal against the Holsting race in September 2014.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:14.240
And do you remember anything about that very first point?
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:15.759
I do not remember that at all.
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:17.119
Was it uh in the BBT?
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:18.079
It was in the BBT.
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.400
Uh Devils won the game 3-2 in overtime.
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:25.119
But uh yeah, I was intrigued to know maybe you know, 700 points apart if you had any memories of that.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.079
No, I remember like certain goals from certain years, but I don't remember the first one.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:31.920
No, I don't, unfortunately.
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:36.160
But I do randomly remember certain certain times, certain moments.
00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:38.799
But yeah, it's there's been a lot of games, so it's hard.
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.000
Some of them slip my mind.
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.839
There are any that stick out in your mind, any moments which are kind of your favorite, I guess?
00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.119
Um personally, yeah.
00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:52.000
I guess one year we had a double header in Belfast and I scored in overtime.
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:53.440
I kind of batted out of the air.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:57.839
That one seems to be a memorable one because obviously we have a lot of fans there, and that's a big rivalry.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.279
So that was a big one.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:08.240
There's I think a couple in Sheffield in the early days and we had that big, you know, it's still a rivalry, but it was they were the team, and and it's always felt good to score against them.
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:12.559
So yeah, there's certain moments um that I I certainly remember.
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:19.519
The the last thing I want to ask you is, you know, as as as we look at you know the 700 points, which is again, it's it's such a crazy number.
00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:28.319
And and and when you arrived and scored that very first goal against Hull, did you ever envisage maybe that there'd be 700 or 699 more of them following?
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:29.839
No, absolutely not.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:34.799
Like I said, I I never thought I I'd be here this long, and I'm grateful for that.
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:42.880
You know, I think of all the players that I played with that have helped me get there, because I certainly do not get that on my own.
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:47.599
And even, you know, all the position you know, the situations that coaches have put me in to produce.
00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:53.759
Um, I'm so lucky to be on great teams every year, to play with good players, to be on the power play.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:01.920
So, like I said, I'm I'm thankful, and you know, it just kind of makes me reflect on all the all the great line mates and players that I played with in the past.
00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.160
Well, Joey, uh, we've seen 700.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.160
We hope for 800 maybe one day in the future.
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:08.559
And uh congratulations, thank you once again for sitting down with me.
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:09.359
Thank you.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.640
Massive thank you to Joey Martin, guys.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:14.240
It it's it's hilarious, isn't it?
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.400
Because it's such a big achievement, guys, and still humble as ever, is Joey.
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.880
I wish Joey Martin was a bigger fan of Joey Martin as we are.
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:37.839
If you could add some uh arrogance in there and and self-sort of grand uh self-grandization there that um you probably add another layer to probably that's probably what put him in the NHL, I guess.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:45.440
Um, but uh no, he he is just so humble, just the perfect leader, the perfect captain.
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:52.720
Um and yeah, just so so pleased for him when when I noticed that it was him who would who had got that assist.
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.200
I was just glad that he just was so efficient in just getting our record out of the way.
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.079
And it's another one down, he's racking him up.
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:07.440
And uh as I said uh to you on commentary, uh, I wouldn't be surprised if uh maybe he'll go for 800 by the end of the season.
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:16.960
Yeah, and what he says on that interview, I mean, that is from the heart, he genuinely doesn't count the points, he doesn't kind of count the accolades.
00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:23.519
The only thing that will please him about getting 700 points to the Devils is it means it's he's contributed to some success.
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:29.359
So that's all that's important for him, and you know, that just sums up you know the absolute ultimate team there.
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:41.200
And I think what I like when it's a record like this is I think some fans probably roll their eyes when we talk about Joey Martin and we say how amazing we think he is, and we wax lyrical about him.
00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.880
And we've never ever said a bad word against him because it's not one to have.
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:52.319
But when it's a record like this, that is a record that sits him above so many other great players.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:21:12.559
If you think about the the entirety of the elite league, and I think about some of the names that come through, I'm not even gonna start to try and name them because they are so plentiful, but for him to sit on top of that, that is the justification of all the nice things and all the great things that we say about him, and the reason that we say them is just justification, and that's what I like.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:18.799
There's there's no in years to come, there'll be arguments about who's the best ever overseas player to play in the league.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:19.920
And is there an argument?
00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:21.039
I don't think there is.
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:30.319
There'll be someone talking to us about and trying to offer suggestions, and it's great that you can point to those things because he achieves.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:30.960
He achieves.
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.519
It's not just that we like him instead, he achieves.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:41.519
Yeah, and Joel, something dawned on me when you asked the question about you know, of those points, what big goals does he remember?
00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:51.119
He hasn't he hasn't had many of those big goals, the the glory goals that you think of playoff finals and league title win.
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.440
Yeah, you know, you mentioned that one in Belfast.
00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:57.440
I remember that kind of really good hand eye coordination tip in.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.839
Um, but he hasn't had those bigs.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.599
Big goals, you know, the game-winning goals.
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:10.240
And that's not because Joey Martin doesn't show up in big games, because he is uh the ultimate big game player.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:17.119
It's probably because Joey Martin is doing absolutely everything else to make sure you win a championship game.
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:31.680
And that is this, you know, he's got this fantastic achievement, 700 points, while sacrificing, you know, a lot of his offense in the key moments, in those big historic moments, for the team, and you know, and letting other guys get the glory.
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.599
And you know, and I truly mean that.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:48.799
Joey Martin is probably playing as a defensive role in that in that uh championship game because he knows one mistake, you might lose a championship, and you know, he is making sure the team win rather than Joey Martin gets the big goal.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:58.240
The last thing I'll touch on for that interview that I really liked is that that despite the fact that I think he's aware of the achievement and and he's aware of how good he is.
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:08.079
Joey Martin is still very much human, and he talks about you know, he gets given the puck and he's not gonna give it to my my son, and and and he talks about those memories, and and then there's a very human element to it as well.
00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:18.079
And and I think that's probably why he is so successful because guys, you know, you talk about how maybe a bit of arrogance might suit him, but also actually what he achieves so much is because he is has that selfless kind of human side as well.
00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.519
I wouldn't really change him.
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:24.000
I I don't I I I was hasty in my uh thing.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:33.759
Uh it is though, and it we we are really lucky in that we've got uh spend a little bit of time, you know, getting to know Joey on a on a personal level.
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:41.200
Um and it it's not just a a thing he's in the locker room, he's an ambassador for the club.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:51.839
That he you know you will get an acknowledgement from Joey Mount whenever you walk past him and he'll take an interest and he will stop and talk to people and he will always have a smile on his face.
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.559
And it he just we've been so lucky to to have him here.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:01.359
Um it's nothing more than he deserves to have these sorts of records.
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:05.759
And I'm gonna swing in big on this because I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying this.
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:15.519
Uh, in terms of Joey Martin goals and the ones he remembers, I'm pretty sure he holds the first ever goal in this building when it was uh against the Belfast Giants.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.119
I think he got the first one.
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:28.720
And if I'm right on that, and I really hope I am because I've really committed, um I think that's a great legacy because I'm sure that his his number will be in the rafters one day, and that's a sort of bookend.
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:33.519
He started the journey in this uh arena, and I'm sure he'll be here forevermore.
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:34.480
He will indeed.
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:36.720
Uh, an indelible part of Devil's history.
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:49.599
And and and as we talk uh a lot about the Devil's 40 years at the moment, I think it's it's it's important to maybe acknowledge the fact that there are guys, yeah, like currently playing in like Jerry Martin, who are committing and contributing to the history of the Devils.
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:54.319
And uh, and as we move on the show, we're gonna continue on that theme of the 40th anniversary celebration.
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.160
And we look at a guy who is a current captain.
00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:01.839
Well, we're gonna look back to a guy who won two league titles as the captain and then another as a coach in the Devils back in the heyday.
00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:05.680
So uh we've sat down with a little bit earlier tonight and chatted with Paul Heavy.
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.160
Ladies and gents, a massive welcome on Devil's Insider this week.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:13.359
So another guest is part of our 40th anniversary celebrations.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.640
Paul Heavy joins the show.
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.839
Paul, thank you so much for joining me.
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:16.720
How are you doing?
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.680
I'm doing well.
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:19.279
Thanks for having me.
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:26.720
We're in the midst of uh of chatting through the the the 40th anniversary celebrations, like I say, and and you were part of the Devils from the early 90s all the way until 2000.
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:34.720
So you saw a lot of different teams, a lot of different devils in in that period, and uh and how cool is it to be marking that that celebration of a 40 years upcoming?
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:36.880
Oh, it's absolutely fantastic.
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:40.000
It's it's yeah, uh I'm I'm really looking forward to it.
00:25:40.079 --> 00:25:42.640
Yeah, it was glory, glory days indeed, you know.
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:52.960
So I'm looking uh forward to hooking up with other guys, and I've never actually been in the new building in all these years, so I'm I'm looking forward to getting back to the city of the building and seeing a lot of good friends.
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.519
Yeah, there's some uh there's some great names on there, isn't there?
00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.440
There's a lot of guys you're gonna be catching up with.
00:25:57.759 --> 00:25:58.480
Ah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.119
Loise are really good players, really good people, yeah.
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:02.480
Really excited about it.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:06.960
Well, uh, we'll chat a little bit about your playing career before we go into your coaching one with the devils over there.
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:13.279
There was it was kind of split into two two sections, and and you had a very long career in in UK hockey before even arriving in Cardiff.
00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:19.039
So tell me a little bit about you know how you grew up with the game and where you started and how you ended up as as a Cardiff Devil.
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:23.119
Um, how long does this last?
00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:25.039
As long as you need it.
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:27.920
I'll try and make it brief.
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:32.160
Uh starting Glasgow, uh public skating.
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.880
Um, this is back in the 70s.
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.440
Um quick story.
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:43.839
I I was Q I used to go to the school for a PE class, uh, then get hooked on the skating.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:54.400
And then I used to go on a Saturday morning, around about 7 a.m., and wait outside the front door to be first in so as I could get to pick up the best pair of higher boots.
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:58.559
It was old leather figure skating boots at the time.
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:06.880
Um, and then just one morning there was a friend of mine from school walking by with a kit bag and a hockey stick, and uh, I think it was pouring a rain at the time.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:07.759
I was getting soaked.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:09.039
He said, Do you want to come indoors?
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.319
I said, Ah, for sure.
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:12.799
He went in, guys were playing hockey.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:16.240
Uh, there was an old coach at the time, Sammy Stevenson.
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:18.720
I think he was off mid-70s.
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.279
Um, and he said, You want to have a go, son?
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:22.960
I said, I'd love to have a go.
00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:28.480
So he went and got me a pair of those old leather uh higher skates, you know, the figure skates.
00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:38.400
He gave me a pair of woolly gloves, not no hockey gloves, woolly gloves, and an old stick, I don't know if it was a Titan or a whatever it was, a coho or something.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.079
And that was it, you know, I was absolutely hooked, loved it.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:47.359
Um my mum and dad bought me a secondhand pair of, I think they were Dower Hugger.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.200
Um, then I started getting some second-hand equipment.
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:52.720
Um, went to the practice.
00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:57.519
I think I was about 14, maybe just 14, 15, so I was a late starter.
00:27:57.920 --> 00:28:02.720
Um, and then I had relatives that lived in Canada uh that played hockey.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:16.400
So I started to go in there in the summer, and we go to the salvation army and and gave me all kitted out and second-hand equipment, all CCM helmets and L Cooper, uh, shoulder pies, etc.
00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:19.920
Then eventually I got a pair of CCM skates.
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:27.200
So I think I'd done that practice for about a year, a year and a half, and then I was enlisted into the Glasgow Mustangs at the time.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.359
I think that was the under 16s.
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:31.920
Uh I was quite tall at the time.
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.960
Um, and then I moved up to the Glasgow Red Wings.
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:42.559
I was a kind of under-21 team, and then the next year I think I was in the senior team, so it was a quick rise into the senior team.
00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:44.559
Um, Glasgow Dynamos.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.240
Um, I mean that was back in the slapshot days, you know, the 70s.
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.319
Slapshot had just come in supper.
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.039
So I was pretty wild.
00:28:53.359 --> 00:28:58.400
Hello, there are Glasswidians running about the hockey, hockey gear, and hockey sticks, so you can just imagine.
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:01.359
Um I think I was there.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.400
I played the for the Glasgow Dynamos for a couple of years.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.960
Then the old story I ended up getting barred from ice rink.
00:29:09.200 --> 00:29:12.720
There was an altercation in the bar uh around the pool table.
00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:21.519
Um I I I didn't I didn't initiate it that um, but I was I was involved in that, so I was barred from uh cross my life ice rink.
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:26.000
Um phoned up Murrayfield, uh, asked if they were looking for any players.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:26.960
I said, yep.
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:31.839
So um and through to Murrayfield, uh Alex Dampier was the coach then.
00:29:32.000 --> 00:29:34.240
Um Chris Kellen was playing.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:36.880
Uh Paul Hand, I don't even think Tony had it.
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:39.279
Tony had started playing by then.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:45.680
Um and spent the next five years in Murrayfield, travelling from Glasgow through to Murrayfield after work.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.279
Um late nights.
00:29:47.359 --> 00:29:49.759
I mean, practice didn't finish till 10:30.
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:56.799
Then you'd go for a few beers, um, sometimes a few workers, and then drive about an hour and a half home, pissed us afart.
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.720
Um I I got I got told a couple of times.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:04.720
Uh how you got away with a few stories.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:10.079
Uh so five years in Murrayfield, um, great, great days.
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:22.400
We you know, we obviously got to the Wembley Finals um three or four times, um got beaten a couple of finals, won it, and then Solihull uh get promoted into the Premier League.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.680
They came chart and they were looking for Premier League players.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.119
So um myself and Paul Hand went to Solihill.
00:30:29.279 --> 00:30:30.559
Thought we'd give it a go.
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.599
Um as sort of semi-professional.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:43.680
We we had jobs, uh, but we were getting paid, we got an apartment and a car, and they had a lot of other reprobates from around the country in the Northeast.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:49.759
Um uh Leapy Lee, Phil Lee, Johnny Iridale, a bunch of guys like that.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:54.559
So I I think they signed about eight or nine guys in Solihill.
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:58.079
Um, and to be honest, it was just about your gong show.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:06.400
Um, they were sponsored by TSB, they had a credit card, and we were all pretty rebellious at the time, you know.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:14.319
Um so I eventually that the money ran down, and I think it was in about um January time that the deadline time.
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:18.960
Sorry, that that was the year that Tony Hahn got drafted uh by the Edmund Oilers.
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:24.559
So he had just come back, and Paul Hand says he would never play against his brother.
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:27.039
So he he left and he went back.
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:39.440
A lot of guys left, directors left, you know that the club was crumbling, and I stuck it out to the day before the signing deadline, and then eventually I went back to Murrayfield as well and finished off the season there.
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:44.880
And then Rick Ferrer, I don't know if he's remembered Rick Ferrer, he was he was a really good import.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:53.200
Him and his brother Frank Ferrer took over Solihull the following year, and then he asked me if I wanted to go back, and so I did.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:54.240
I went back myself.
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:58.480
Paul Paul didn't come, and then I spent a couple of years in Solihull.
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:05.519
Um, I it was obviously pair, it was an old drink, the old nets and stuff, and it was pretty wild as well at the time.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:13.519
Um, a couple of years in Solihull, then Peterborough Pirates, uh Gary Younger was coaching Peterborough Pirates.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:20.160
Um so Peter Smith and I went to play for Peterborough for a couple of years.
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:27.279
Um and I guess it was just we were never we weren't weren't winning too many games, put it that way, you know.
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:40.160
So um there was a lot of fisticuffs and a lot of beer drank and a lot of um a few run-ins with the police and spent a couple of nights in uh the cells as well, to be honest with you.
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.519
So it was it was a bit it was a bit mad, a couple of mad years.
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:48.640
Um and then eventually the the upstarts, Cardiff Devils, uh, came.
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:56.400
Um I think it was in Peterborough for two years, and then Johnny Lawless approached us and asked Peter and I, if we'd be interested in going there.
00:32:56.559 --> 00:33:03.279
So they took us down to Cardiff and wind and dined us, and and it was just too good to be true, you know.
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:13.119
I mean, it was a beautiful new rink at the time, really good organization, you know, very, very professional, great sponsorship, uh, and it was an easy, easy decision.
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:14.559
Um, and that was it.
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:17.519
Uh, spent the next five years playing.
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:20.799
Um, I think after the second year I became the captain.
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:25.759
Um, got a few injuries, really bad shoulder injury, knee injury and stuff.
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.279
And then eventually Johnny, Johnny came.
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:35.680
I mean, I was injured, I was in the injured list again, and there was a wage cap at the time, and I'd been out for about three months.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:40.480
And um, he says, Look, we need to get another player, and we need to get you off the wage cap.
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:44.160
So they signed uh Jamie Vanderhorst.
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:46.160
If you I don't know if you remember him, Fanny.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:49.599
Um, um Johnny, I I mean I'll never forget it.
00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:55.759
Johnny took me into the office, uh, and I think I was only about 34 or something at the time.
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:58.880
And um he says, We need to get you off the wage cap.
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:01.200
You've had a lot of injuries, etc., etc.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:05.680
Um, and I don't I remember it very, very clearly.
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:13.280
Um, but he did say, look, we're willing to keep you on as an assistant coach and also help with the junior development.
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.519
So he gave me that option.
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:20.320
Um by that time I'd bought a house, had a property, had a daughter that was in school.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:27.679
Yeah, the only other option really was to uh travel down the N4 to Swindon or something and try and continue playing.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:30.400
Um, but my injuries were too bad, I was struggling.
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:39.920
So I took the offer uh from Johnny and became uh an assistant coach and then um I worked with the juniors on a Monday night.
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:42.639
Um again, very, very tiring.
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.800
I mean it was just all the devil stuff, all the travelling.
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:52.639
I mean, you'd be in Murrayfield on a Sunday night, travelling back, get back to you know Cardiff.
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:55.119
It was in Pontyprid that I was living at the time.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.840
Uh I would still I was still working at the time for Swayek, they were the sponsors.
00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:13.360
So I'd I'd more or less go off the bus, then go straight to work, then finish work at 4, 4:30, and then just drive down to Cardiff and and uh run the juniors until about 11 pm, and it was exhausting.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.039
Absolutely exhausting.
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:20.000
Um but I loved it, you know, I I I absolutely loved it.
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:26.079
And then I saw I remember, I'm just thinking back.
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.440
So then that was my introduction to coaching.
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:33.920
Um so then I I was a bookworm, you know, I get into the books.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:36.239
I didn't know much about coaching at the time.
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:38.320
I thought, you know, coach break every evening.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:41.920
I was into the books, you know, trying to learn about hockey and the game.
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:48.320
And Johnny would phone me up uh at my work and he'd say, What are we doing tonight for practice?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:57.440
And I said, Well, we need we we we need to work in the power play we've, you know, or we we need to work in our breakouts or our mutro zone we groups or whatever it was, you know.
00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:12.559
I I was you know like a a kid with a new toy, and um okay, good, good, he's good, he's and it and then I get down there and I tell my practice all written out, you know, I'd I'd I'd write it all out or the drills or the practice, and they went, ah, we'll do that next week, heaves.
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:17.840
So uh I was listening to you.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:28.880
We uh when you interviewed Shannon now after Franny contacted me, so I listened to Shannon's uh interview, and um that was it horseshoe two on one in Scrimmage for Bears.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:34.239
Yeah, um that that that was a successful uh res uh recipe and it worked, you know.
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:40.880
So uh but I continued, I continued with the X and O's, you know, just trying to learn myself.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:50.960
Um, and then eventually I I think after that half a season, if my memory serves me, Johnny got approached by Manchester.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:54.559
Yeah, so I I I I I was just tired.
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.400
I mean, I mean it was it was a long hour.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:37:03.920
I had a full-time job with Swaleck, I was exhausted, and I I went to Johnny and I said, Look, Johnny, I you need to get me a different job.
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:13.760
You know, I I need a job that's gonna be, you know, um where I can get time off, you know, where I don't need to go to work in a month, a Monday morning when I come back for trips and stuff.
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.159
And so they said, okay, I'll try, I'll try.
00:37:16.239 --> 00:37:18.800
And it went on for weeks and weeks and weeks.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:27.920
Um, and during that time, Five Flyers approached me and they said that um, well, they actually offered me a job to go and coach the Five Flyers.
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:30.639
Um, so I was seriously considering that.
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:34.320
You know, it was a full-time job, really, really big decision.
00:37:34.559 --> 00:37:39.039
Um and it went on for a wee while Johnny still hadn't given me an answer.
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:43.519
And then he said, just hold on for a couple of days, hold on for a couple of days.
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:51.199
Um, and then Fife eventually put me um on the spot and he said, Look, we need to know within the next 48 hours or we're going to get another coach.
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:56.480
And then Johnny phoned me up and he said, uh, he said, Look, Heves, I'm leaving.
00:37:56.639 --> 00:37:58.400
He says, I'm going to Manchester.
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:01.039
He says, and that's why I haven't been able to say anything.
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.360
You know, he'd been negotiating with Manchester.
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:12.000
He says, but I've uh I've spoken to David Temme and I put a good word for you in, and they suggested that they they consider you for the head coach position.
00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.719
So Johnny left, and obviously it was like the Messiah leaving.
00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.480
Everybody was in mourning, you know, the whole city was in mo in mourning.
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:22.880
Um, but he went on to Pastors New.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:30.239
We had a meeting with David Temy, I think the two Cooper brothers were there.
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.199
I don't know, maybe Doug McCune.
00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:36.079
Um, and what are we gonna do now?
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.559
You know, we just thought, what are we gonna do now?
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:42.320
Um, so everybody kind of had different ideas and stuff.
00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:52.639
Um everybody kind of left except myself and David, and I said, Look, I I'm either the head coach or I'm gonna move on, you know.
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.440
You know, that was pretty much as simple as that.
00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:56.559
So that was it.
00:38:56.719 --> 00:39:02.159
You said okay, uh, you I'm gonna give you the position as head coach, and that was it for the next five years.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:06.320
The uh baptism of fire, as I call it.
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:11.840
Um, and he's it wasn't just a move into coaching, was it?
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:29.039
It was a move into coaching at a time when all of a sudden there was new money in the sport because I think that the your first year was that the first year Sir John Hall from Newcastle came in with the Newcastle sporting club idea, and and team started kind of building, and then the next year ultimately it's a super league, wasn't it?
00:39:29.360 --> 00:39:35.280
I I I think I think we had one year in the old Premier League.
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:36.880
Yeah, possibly.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:42.079
But that that was, I mean, Johnny left and and and he took the admins staff.
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:47.039
I walked into the office and you know, basically said, where did I start?
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:49.840
You know, I'd I'd absolutely no clue.
00:39:50.079 --> 00:40:02.400
Um, and it was just as I say, a baptism of fire, um ITC cards, uh, buses, travel, equipment, you know, just trying to learn all that sort of stuff.
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:09.119
And I I used to get home about 11 o'clock, 11 pm, and then I'd start thinking about the practice.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:13.199
Um I mean it was it was stressful and it was tiring.
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:21.039
Um managed to get through that first year, and then I think it was the next year, Franny, it became the Super League.
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:29.280
Um yes, and I think what happened was up until then they had three dual nationals.
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:36.480
Um you had to live in a country for 10 years, be a resident, have a passport, etc.
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:42.000
But that year, that summer they changed the rules and they reduced it to three years.
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:50.000
So all of a sudden there was an absolute glut of of dual national players, um, and everybody was going after them.
00:40:50.159 --> 00:40:58.239
You know, I'm I'm talking like 40, 50 of these guys, um, and they were getting offered crazy money, and and they knew it.
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:13.679
Um, so everybody started snapping them up, and then in the September of that year, the season had just started, and then they brought in the Bosman rule, the EU rule, which meant anybody with a European passport could play as a non-import.
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:22.000
So the phrase I use it it went from having three imports to having three Brits, basically, you know, and that's what happened.
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:27.119
I mean, it was just I think we had like 16 or 17 foreign players.
00:41:27.440 --> 00:41:31.519
Um and the whatever just went through the roof.
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.039
That that was my second season, and it just bleak.
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.719
Um, so I yeah, I keep saying the baptism of fire.
00:41:38.800 --> 00:41:41.760
It was a very, very steep learning curve for me, you know.
00:41:41.920 --> 00:41:43.280
That's for sure.
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:54.719
Um I just signing a lot of ex-NHL players, and for me, just trying to get respect was the big thing, you know.
00:41:55.119 --> 00:42:00.480
I was reading books constantly, trying to get educated, going on coaching seminars.
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:03.360
Um, but the the main thing was respect.
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:08.239
You know, if the players don't respect you, you know, um you're on a loser right away.
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:14.239
So um, you know, I I wasn't like a great player, I wasn't a high goal scorer or whatever.
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:20.159
So, you know, I remember reading in the book, you know, another way you could gain respect was through hard work.
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:26.159
Um, and I'd always been a hard worker, I had to work very, very hard just to be an average player.
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:31.039
Um I'd I'd been the captain in three different teams, you know.
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:33.840
So I obviously had some leadership skills there.
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:35.199
Um, and that was it.
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:37.920
It was just work, work, work, you know.
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:45.840
Um I and uh I signed some really good players, and I mean I sleep we had a lot of good success.
00:42:46.159 --> 00:42:48.559
Yeah, you mentioned signing some really good players, you know.
00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:55.840
I I look at the team that that first Super League winning team, and you've got you know, Vezio Sacrettini, Ivan Mussoulik, Ken Hodge, and and guys like that.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:59.840
How different was it recruiting those guys and having those guys be, you know, be your players?
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:04.159
And how was that different to maybe being the captain back in the Heineken league days as well?
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:12.159
Um I think it was easier with those guys because you you you didn't really know them.
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:18.239
Um I I think the the biggest challenge was with the the players that you'd been playing with.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:26.800
Um, you know, you you'd been their teammate, um their pal, their drinking buddy, and and now all of a sudden you're coaching them.
00:43:27.039 --> 00:43:41.280
Um and you're you're trying to make them accountable or try to convey a message or what you want me to do or what you feel their role is, and um obviously roles have changed quite a lot.
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:58.159
Um, you know, I I remember, you know, Nikki Ching, for example, you know, like a great up and coming player, um, and he kind of went down the pecking order a wee bit, you know, and it obviously hurt him, but um and he even years and years later he had a puck at me.
00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.119
It's amazing.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:07.039
Years new even Ed Courtney, you know, they meet guys ten years ago and then they they they have a bee puppet, you know.
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:12.400
But uh I I just felt I was always, always gonna do what I thought was best for the team.
00:44:12.639 --> 00:44:14.159
But the but that that was difficult.
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.159
I think that was the most difficult part.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:24.800
Um, you know, all all the guys, you know, Ian Cooper, Sharon Hawk, Steve Morrier, you know, I I'd been playing with them for years and now I'm I'm coaching them.
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:26.400
Um I'm telling them what to do.
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:32.400
Um you know if they make a mistake, I was never too hard on guys, but I've got to try and coach.
00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:41.760
Um and I think I think it was tough for them as well, you know, to kind of listen to me, you know, big heaves, the big kind of stay-home good defenseman.
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:45.760
And I know I'm coaching the team and try to tell them what to do.
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:51.280
Um, so that that was probably the most difficult part was the guys that I've actually played with.
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:56.800
Um the the other guys, it was me but a bit respect.
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:03.519
I mean, obviously with Johnny, I mean I'm not having a pop at Johnny, um, but that there wasn't any systems, you know.
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:04.960
There was no system.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:15.039
Other than that, and it was great, don't get me wrong, there were amazing years, you know, with great players and a lot of success, and that that that worked, but it was different now.
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:21.760
Now you're playing against uh a lot of very, very good teams um that are playing systems.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:32.719
Um, you know, so we we had I had to learn and uh about systems for checking and D-zone coverage, penalty killing, and trying to teach all this stuff and implement these systems.
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:38.800
So um but we go there in the end, Paul.
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:43.599
Uh, one thing about those teams that I remember sitting in the stands is just how tough they were.
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:49.599
Uh, I think you probably oversaw the toughest devil's teams we've ever seen, and that's quite a high bar.
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:56.320
It always felt to me like it was sort of an extension of your personality, that that sort of team toughness ethos.
00:45:56.719 --> 00:46:01.199
Was that a sort of deliberate thing that you wanted to instill in those sides?
00:46:03.119 --> 00:46:06.719
I I think that probably a bit.
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:15.360
Yeah, I mean, obviously the the team's a reflection of the coach's personality, but I I just think it was uh it was a small barn.
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:20.000
Um I don't know if there was too many other drinks that small.
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:22.960
The most of them are other kind of you know big ice pads.
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:28.239
Um and you just wanted to make it a horrible, horrible place to come to.
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:35.199
You know, I remember years ago going to Durham and Wilkie Bay, you know, we were two goals down before we got off the bus.
00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:42.079
Because guys just in their mind, you know, they just and the rink was getting a bit older then as well, you know.
00:46:42.239 --> 00:46:44.639
But you you just it was a smaller ice pad.
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:52.639
The ice was nice and great, you know, the crowd were right on top of you, and you just wanted to make it a place that other teams didn't want to come.
00:46:52.800 --> 00:47:02.239
So that that that physicality and aggressive for-checking and you know, limiting time and space um was a big part of it.
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:13.039
And yes, uh yeah, you you just it's obviously different now, uh, and it's been through diff some different eras, but toughness is a big part of the game.
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:16.559
Um and back then it was a different type of toughness.
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:21.199
You you know, you could really use it to your advantage to intimidate.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:34.960
Um, and I guess from our point of view, I wasn't overly skilled, so uh you've got to use which strengths you have, and that that intimidation, you know, being big and being aggressive uh gets you a wee bit more time and space.
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:40.400
Um, you know, like Steve Moria, you know, playing against him, you know, and he's he's coming in on you.
00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:48.719
I mean, and I was in pre of, you know, I I'd just be wanting to hurt somebody, you know, but the first two or three shifts and I'm going to try and hurt somebody here.
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:55.760
And I go up and try and scare the out of Moria, you know, and then so the next time he came down, he'd maybe chip it past me or pass it to somebody else, you know.
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:02.400
So um I and and it's entertaining, you know, the fans loved it, you know.
00:48:02.559 --> 00:48:06.559
Um, you know, it's it's the number one thing that gets people off their seats, you know.
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.599
Um, but there was a whole lot of skill in there as well, you know.
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:16.800
We had your Randy Smith and Matullicks and Hodges and Thornton's, you know, so I I think there was a a good balance.
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:29.760
Um, but when the other team knows that Mike Ware's there or Mick McWilliams there or whatever, you know, that they're not going to be uh too much, either weight a bit or bullying, you know.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:35.519
So um no, it was just part and parcel of it, and you know, we we were good at it.
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:46.159
You you've mentioned some names there, and and and three of the ones that that you know a lot of devils fans still talk about to this day, uh you know, Matulik, Hodge, and Thornton on a line together, the black line as it was known back then.
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:52.800
Tell me a little bit about what made those three guys so special, why did it work so well between them and and and your memories of those three?
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:02.000
Um I I think it's was just the the balance um between the three of them.
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:08.719
I mean, Ivan was a big, strong, powerful winger, you know, could go up and get into the zone quick.
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:10.960
You know, he was very good in the corners.
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:20.159
Stevie was just, you know, so he'd go on and dig pucks out, you know, get to the front of the net, um, and and be the brawn of the line.
00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:29.440
You know, Steve Stevie was very nimble, um, really good, you know, skills, in tight, you know, with a little short sticky eyes and a B short blade.
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:34.639
And and Hodgey was just smart, just just so smart, you know.
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:39.039
He he'd be you know, good offensively, but more of a playmaker.
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.599
Um, and absolutely to coin a phrase, I think it was Frank Evans.
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:48.079
I remember him saying Hodge is a god in his own end, you know.
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:57.039
Uh he was just a very he obviously played in the NHL for years, um, just very, very smart uh defensively, you know.
00:49:57.199 --> 00:50:04.559
So um I did it it just clicked, and I I think it was just the the balance of their styles and and physicality.
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.280
Um, and obviously they got on well, you know.
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:12.159
But they they know the chemistry was was fantastic and they had they had a lot of success.
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:20.880
You uh you you won the Super League as your second year as a full-time head coach, and and you know, you you've talked about the how challenging it was, how tiring, how difficult it was maybe.
00:50:21.039 --> 00:50:27.280
But was that really quite satisfying to get something like that over the line so quickly and so early into your coaching career?
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:30.239
I I'll I'll be honest with you.
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.800
Uh um I was thinking about it that I'll be there.
00:50:32.960 --> 00:50:36.000
Um, I mean the club spent a lot of money.
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:42.239
Um, I think Paul Guy had come in um at that time and he put a lot of money in.
00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:44.800
Uh obviously BT were there.
00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:51.199
Um, all the players, I mean, they'd done the rink, I think they put the glass in, they refurbished the whole rink.
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:55.280
Um but they took us in a training camp to France.
00:50:55.440 --> 00:51:00.239
I think we went to uh France for Brest for a couple of weeks.
00:51:00.400 --> 00:51:01.840
Um that's what I ended up.
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:04.159
I signed uh Vitzio Sacretini then.
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.559
He he came on a try-out, believe it or not.
00:51:06.639 --> 00:51:12.800
Uh I'll I'll no mention the wages that he got then, but but he he was absolutely dirt cheap.
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:25.920
Um and uh he wasn't he was easy to dirt cheap before in yeah, I can tell you, but uh I think he I think he was second or third in the point scoring that year, so he he was like a real diamond in the rough.
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:45.840
But Jason Wood uh was parley with uh Glenn Anderson out in Canada in TikTok, and uh his name came up, and then uh before you know it, Glenn Anderson turned up at the training camp in Brest with his Hollywood uh celebrity girlfriend, and all the players couldn't take their eyes off her.
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:57.280
Um but he he never played, it was something to do with in insurance and stuff, and he never played, but he came back to Cardiff, and uh I remember that night vividly.
00:51:57.440 --> 00:52:03.280
Um they brought Anderson and uh uh Limousy at Stretch Limo uh onto the ice.
00:52:03.360 --> 00:52:16.639
They brought out all the the brand new Mondeo cars, you know, with all the sign writing and this, you know, the Super League, and it was an amazing launch um and a lot of you know big investment, a lot of money ploughed into it.
00:52:16.800 --> 00:52:19.599
Um it never worked out, obviously, with Glenn.
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:26.159
I don't I don't know what happened with the negotiations, but uh he played a couple of games, I think.
00:52:26.239 --> 00:52:29.280
I think he played a German first division team.
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:31.360
Just another weave of memory.
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:34.880
Um so that was the first game he played.
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:39.920
Um and he I think he was like maybe 6'1, kind of slim build.
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:49.199
Um but some German kid, a kind of phase cage or a young guy, kind of took a run at him and kind of nailed him a wee bit, you know.
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:52.400
Um and he regretted doing that, I'll tell you.
00:52:52.480 --> 00:53:01.760
So for the next the next minute and a half, Glenn Anderson just skated about bowling people over, or just knocking guys over.
00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:03.920
It was unbelievable to see, you know.
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:07.440
He he just stepped it up again and played like you know how he could play.
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:12.320
Um and then after the game, they they went to Le Monde.
00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:18.000
And uh I I wasn't there, I don't think I went there, but uh they all went to Le Monde.
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.440
Were you there?
00:53:19.519 --> 00:53:33.679
Yeah um and they were all drinking uh champagne, drinking Moy and uh having steaks and all sorts of food, and then uh the next day Glenn Anderson came in with a receipt and gave it to David Temmy.
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:43.280
We we all thought he was taking us out for uh for a nice steak to say thanks, and so we were just filling our boots with everything we could.
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:48.639
And everybody probably thought this guy's uh an NHL millionaire, he's gonna pay for it.
00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:52.639
But he came in the next day and gave a receipt for about a thousand pounds to David Temme.
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:55.760
Um he obviously paid it.
00:53:55.840 --> 00:53:59.360
Um but it obviously it didn't work out with with with Glenn.
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:05.760
Um so then I obviously that the inaugural super league, some really, really good teams.
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:10.400
I I think Sheffield were probably our main rival that year.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:16.559
Um I just remember the whiteboard in the dressing room.
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:24.960
Obviously, you know, we started getting whiteboards and bikes and fitness testing and taking things really really serious.
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:33.199
But we had the schedule in the wall, and uh obviously after every home game or whatever, you know, it's one win loss, win, win, win, loss.
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:37.760
And I think there was about I don't know, 12, 12 games to go.
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:41.519
So you you know that that the titles within your reach.
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:46.719
Um, another week memory is is is talking to Doug McCarthy at the time.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:48.880
Um and it that that was great.
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:56.880
I mean, I I I used the players, especially the captains, but the players knew that they could speak to me, and it was great for me to be able to speak to them as well.
00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:02.559
Um, I remember speaking to Dougie, and I'm like, Dougie, I I don't even know what to say anymore.
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:11.039
I keep saying the same thing, you know, about a forecheck, about getting the puck out, getting the puck deep, you know, turnovers, odd man rush, you know, same stuff.
00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:16.719
Um, and it sounded like a broken record, you know, for me personally, he says what's working.
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:18.800
Just keep saying the same thing.
00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:28.719
You know, so that that you know, it was like ten games to go, nine games to go, seven games to go, and like every game was the biggest game of the year.
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:34.320
Every game, you know, next game, biggest game of the year, next game, biggest game of the year.
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:43.039
Um and it was a lot of pressure, you know, that the you know, a lot of money had been spent uh really, really high expectations.
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:57.599
And again, uh the Grey Martyrs may be no right good, but the the last game I think I remember was against Manchester and uh Johnny was coaching and it was live on Sky TV.
00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:14.800
Um so the trophies in the building um and you're in the dressing room and you're just saying the same thing, you know, but you could just feel the nerves, and I knew how nervous I was, and you could just feel the nerves, you know, with the team.
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:24.960
Um we got in the first period and it's two-nothing in Manchester, and it's like the place is in shock, absolute shock.
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:29.039
That this is not a script, this this isn't yeah, this is not supposed to happen.
00:56:29.519 --> 00:56:35.519
So I I remember standing outside the dressing room door and going, can I swear here?
00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:39.920
I'm basically going, what the f what what's going on here?
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:44.639
That this is not a script, you know, cameras here, the trophies in the building are getting beat to nothing.
00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.119
And we'd spanked Manchester the whole year.
00:56:47.360 --> 00:56:50.079
It was just nerves, just nerves.
00:56:50.400 --> 00:56:56.320
Anyway, so I I think there's like three minutes to go, and it may have been Taffy, I probably taffy.
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.679
Taffy says, Look, there's only three minutes, you're gonna have to go in the room.
00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:02.880
And I honestly, I just did not know what to say.
00:57:03.519 --> 00:57:09.280
Um, and then I've got about 90 seconds, and it's just instinct.
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:14.639
Um, so I just boom, opened the door, ran in, and I just started laughing my head off.
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:15.840
I just started laughing.
00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:18.239
I went, okay, guys, the joke's over.
00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:23.119
The joke is over, and I was just trying to laugh as much as I could.
00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:28.639
You know, I said, the cigars are there, the champagne's there, let's just get this over and bang me.
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:33.840
And I just try to crack jokes and lighten the mood and and just ease that tension.
00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:44.320
Um, and I obviously something worked because we went out and uh we we get two quick goals and then eventually beat them 4-2 and then won the Super League uh in inner building.
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:47.840
Um again, their memories stick me forever.
00:57:47.920 --> 00:57:49.920
You know, I'll I'll never forget that mate.
00:57:50.320 --> 00:58:03.920
You uh you also won the playoffs in in 99 as well, and and then but both those those titles, the the Super League in '97 and the playoffs in '99, are quite big in Devil's history because they then went on a very long stretch where they didn't win those trophies until you know the late 2010s.
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:13.599
And so, you know, when you look back at that, did you ever expect when you won those trophies that that would kind of be the last for for a couple of decades that it would take that long for the Devils to get back there?
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.679
Oh no, not never in a million years, Nikan.
00:58:17.920 --> 00:58:20.800
Not nor were the the club's the club's history.
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:39.599
I I mean I'll I'm not talking about it too much, but there was obviously changes of ownership and changes of culture, and I think the club was in a bit of disarray um for quite a few years, you know, before they uh before they got their sort of identity back and got the right people involved.
00:58:39.760 --> 00:58:51.039
Um but no, you you would just think that a club with that sort of history, um, that tradition, um, I was astounded that it took that long for me to get you know winning trophies again.
00:58:51.199 --> 00:58:56.159
I was uh it was a long period, uh a long famine, you know, with the trophies, that's for sure.
00:58:56.400 --> 00:58:59.440
Um so I was really, really excited when they did.
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:04.239
Yeah, do you do you now you're kind of looking for from the outside as well?
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:09.920
Does it do you feel a bit of pride to see the devils back now in the winning circle and winning trophies consistently?
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:11.360
Oh no, of course.
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:15.920
I mean that that that's that's my club, you know, uh, and it always will be.
00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:18.880
Uh the 10 best years of my life, you know.
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:20.880
Obviously, five as a player.
00:59:21.119 --> 00:59:27.039
You know, I think we got a couple of grand slams, a couple of doubles, super league, playoff championships, you know.
00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:30.800
Uh any glory that I had was in Cardiff.
00:59:30.880 --> 00:59:35.360
You know, that that that's for you know, I'd done bits with GB and stuff like that.
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:53.039
I never had success at any other clubs, so you know, but winning winnings uh well we won with the Scottish Eagles, we won the Challenge Cup of the Scottish Eagles, and I got a few teams that later on that were kind of lower end, I went through in mid-season, managed to get to the final four and stuff.
00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:57.119
But no, no, Cardiff will always have a special place in my heart, you know.
00:59:57.519 --> 00:59:59.519
That was my club, and it always will be.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:07.519
Eves, you mentioned about the devils getting their identity back, and this is a question that I asked to John Lawless to Shannon Hope.
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:10.639
We talk about devil's identity, we talk about devil's hockey.
01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:16.000
For a guy that lived and breathed it, you know, as a player and then as a as a successful coach.
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:19.920
How would you define devil's identity, devil's hockey?
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:30.719
I I think it's just that uh a winning mentality, you know, a a winning mindset in common seconds not good enough.
01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:37.840
You know, it it's just that expectation um of winning.
01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:41.440
I mean, I I'm getting shivers here, uh, you know, just thinking about it.
01:00:41.599 --> 01:00:45.039
Um that there's nothing compares to it, you know.
01:00:45.199 --> 01:00:54.320
Um I mean I I I've gave some speeches uh in dressing rooms before finals and stuff, and that that lives with you for the rest of your life.
01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:56.880
You you don't need photographs, you don't need videos.
01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:05.199
Um, you know, that that winning feeling runs through your nervous system, um, and there's nothing, nothing to replace it.
01:01:05.360 --> 01:01:08.400
And you you'll never forget that.
01:01:08.480 --> 01:01:15.119
I I mean I I remember one speech, I think it was uh Scottish Eagles, we were playing Belfast.
01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:19.679
In Belfast, I was coaching there Scottish Eagles.
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:29.599
Um they had we played them eight times they beat us seven and we tied one, so we we hadn't beaten them the whole season.
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:33.440
They finished first, we finished second, and the teams were stacked.
01:01:33.760 --> 01:01:38.960
And then we went to play in in in Belfast in the Challenge Cup final.
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:48.239
Um and believe it or not, they they already had the banners made up Belfast Giants, Challenge Cup champions.
01:01:48.480 --> 01:01:54.480
They had the Belfast colours on the trophy, honestly, um before that.
01:01:54.639 --> 01:02:15.679
But anyway, before I I'd been up on eight, you know, did a handout about you know systems and X's and O's and whatever and we had our team meeting um and I started going through it, and I was literally 30 seconds into it, and I just said, just throw them in a bin, just throw all that in the bin, get rid of the X's and O's.
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:18.800
And then I just asked, Who's ever won a championship?
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:26.480
Put your hands up, and I don't know, half a dozen, maybe eight guys put their hands up, and I said, Who who did you play?
01:02:27.039 --> 01:02:29.039
Round it off, what was the score?
01:02:30.079 --> 01:02:30.880
Round it off.
01:02:31.039 --> 01:02:33.760
Who was the first person you saw in your family after that?
01:02:33.920 --> 01:02:40.559
R round it off um and asked them a whole bunch of questions, and they answered every single one of them.
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:47.199
Because that that feeling of winning, it it just I can't explain it.
01:02:47.280 --> 01:03:02.480
You it it just it it enlightens your your nervous system and it's impregnated in your your nervous system for the rest of your life, and that that association of winning, um you just want more of it.
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:04.480
You you just you just want more of it.
01:03:04.639 --> 01:03:13.519
Um so I it is just uh again, I'm I'm I'm just blessed to have been part of that team and and uh had the chance to experience all those winning moments.
01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:18.719
Well, Paula, I think everybody is very blessed to have been part of uh supporting the teams while you were coaching them as well.
01:03:18.800 --> 01:03:23.039
And I know that everyone's very excited to see you in Cardiff in a few weeks' time for the anniversary.
01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:24.800
And uh yeah, it's been great to chat to you.
01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:28.559
I really appreciate it, and uh, it's been great to take a little bit of a trip down memory lane as well.
01:03:28.800 --> 01:03:29.920
Oh, it's been good for me.
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:30.880
I love talking hockey.
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:32.880
You need to give me a phone.
01:03:33.199 --> 01:03:33.679
Oh, yeah.
01:03:33.760 --> 01:03:36.159
I mean, I'm sure we can do plenty more of it in a couple of weeks.
01:03:36.400 --> 01:03:37.840
No, I'm looking forward to it, guys.
01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:38.480
Can't wait.
01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:39.679
I'm looking forward to it.
01:03:39.920 --> 01:03:41.119
Thanks for your time.
01:03:42.320 --> 01:03:44.960
Massive thanks to Paul Heavy for joining the show, guys.
01:03:45.039 --> 01:03:52.159
I I I love the fact that we've we've spoken to John Lawless and he he spoke a bit about management and playing, and then Shannon Hope gave us a great insight to being a player.
01:03:52.239 --> 01:03:58.320
And now Paul Heavy has given us a really good insight into a little bit later on in the history about what coaching was about, Franny.
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:01.840
And it's really interesting, guy, and a really some really great stories in there.
01:04:02.159 --> 01:04:06.480
Yeah, really good stories, and you know, it it's so true what he says.
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:28.079
The the John Lawless coaching manual is very unique in the fact that he, you know, where where John Lawless's skills are is pulling the right chemistry together and giving players freedom to express themselves, getting good players in so when they do express themselves, you get a good result.
01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:38.079
So that's what I kind of grew up with coming into the Devils, and it was literally as he said, warm up the goalies, horseshoe, pucks in the net, scrimmage for beers.
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:39.679
And we did that night in, night out.
01:04:39.760 --> 01:04:53.360
And it it did make me laugh when you know he said about he wrote up his coaching plans and Lawless, ah, maybe next week, because Lawless loved playing the game rather than training, so you know he always wanted uh to scrimmage as much as anybody.
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:58.800
Um, but Heaves, when he when he came in, you know, he mentioned that he's a he's a bookworm and he started just studying.
01:04:58.960 --> 01:04:59.920
And I remember that.
01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:07.599
Like I mean, he was always deep as a guy, you know, a very deep thinker, whether he's talking to you about music or whatever, you know, very, very deep.
01:05:07.840 --> 01:05:16.880
And he he knew that if he wanted to make a go of this coaching thing, he had to work hard and be, you know, and and had to better himself.
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:22.880
And he just absorbed all these coaching books, and he starts coming in and running practices and drawing drums.
01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:26.239
And I've never, I didn't know what systems were at the time.
01:05:26.320 --> 01:05:31.440
And you know, he's talking about all these things that he was having to teach, and it was such a novel approach.
01:05:31.519 --> 01:05:35.760
I'm sure it went on elsewhere in the world, but in our little bubbling cardiac, we'd never seen it before.
01:05:35.920 --> 01:06:07.039
So he was the first real coach that I had that you know was the X's and O's coach and and the details of that, and you know, what what a quick, steep learning curve he had to not only go from a a player straight into a coaching role with half a half a year's experience as assistant coach, but in an era where there was a lot of money being thrown at hockey at the time, you know, there was the Uh the the bubble of the super league was kind of brewing in the background background and teams are starting to throw a lot more money in.
01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:14.480
So you're getting all of a sudden a lot of high caliber players, and then he's coaching guys with NHL experience straight off the back as a guy in his mid-30s.
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:16.960
It's pretty pretty good accomplishment.
01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:23.199
You talk about him being completely different to Lawless on the ice and then in training there.
01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:27.360
Is that why it worked him being the first after Lawless?
01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:31.199
Because that's a daunting job to go into for anyone.
01:06:31.519 --> 01:06:38.000
And if he had done things anywhere near the same way, he gets a comparison, I guess.
01:06:38.239 --> 01:06:45.519
But he very much felt to me when he was talking about it, he was his own man with his own ideas, and he's implemented them straight away.
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:48.159
Is that why the the sort of continuation?
01:06:48.239 --> 01:06:50.559
Because it was no kind of slump, we carried on winning.
01:06:50.719 --> 01:06:55.280
Yeah, and you know, it was a total change of the guard, it was a total different approach.
01:06:55.360 --> 01:07:17.039
It was dare I say it, uh it was the birth of the professional era where you know you had all the fitness testing in and uh nutritionists started coming in, and you know, some of the stuff that we see today, it was the first time we'd ever experienced it going away to a training camp and having like a proper training camp rather than kind of just show up and get the games going.
01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:35.199
And um, so yeah, I mean it was you know interesting that he said that that the first aim he had to set out was to get respect, and you know, I and I can totally see that because he was a leader as as a captain, but he was also one of the boys, and he you know, it's funny that he mentioned that as well.
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:39.199
The most difficult thing was coaching guys that he'd been a peer with.
01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:53.039
And I've heard that from so many coaches when Brody DuPont was here, you know, he had to step out of his peer group into coaching them, and he said he always found it very difficult, awkward almost to coach guys that he'd been sat next to in the locker room.
01:07:53.119 --> 01:08:07.119
And you know, that was kind of one of the things he reflected on, you know, after he he left the Devils was that you know, I wish I'd had a locker room that had been totally new to me as a coach rather than you know have that crossover.
01:08:07.440 --> 01:08:11.119
Um, but yeah, he he did carry authority.
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:14.480
Obviously, he's a big tough guy anyway, so you're a little bit scared of him.
01:08:14.559 --> 01:08:23.680
You know, he's got that deep Glaswegian voice, and um, you know, when he wanted to let the team know things weren't right, it was you know it was pretty intimidating.
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:25.439
So he you know he did have that.
01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:35.840
Um, but also you know, I I did love the story about, and I vaguely remember it when we went down to Manchester before winning that super league title, finding a different way to break the ice.
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:42.239
You know, everyone's expecting him to come in and give us an absolute roasting, and then he comes in laughing and just tries to lighten up the mood.
01:08:42.319 --> 01:08:54.720
And um, yeah, so yeah, in answer to the question, yeah, I I think probably the only way you could go about replacing an icon like John Lawless is to do something totally, totally different and make it that different.
01:08:54.800 --> 01:09:02.800
Because if you try and intimidate somebody as you know, in that kind of esteem, then it's it's not gonna go well, it very rarely goes well.
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:06.800
So, yeah, he he did definitely come in and and made it his own.
01:09:07.279 --> 01:09:30.000
I just for me being He's air is kind of the era that I sort of develop my massive fandom for the Devils, like those teams that he was in charge of uh are my guys, like in my head, that that's like the team, it's like you know, Franny talks about you know, when he came through in like last year that I he remembers indelible.
01:09:30.079 --> 01:09:41.439
The impression I have of the devils is mainly through those Paul Heavy teams, and I just think of the perfect balance of toughness, skill, just those teams had everything, didn't they?
01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:42.880
Just up and down the line up.
01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:50.880
There was a character on every line, whether it was in defense or or attack, and just yeah, it just so fond memories.
01:09:51.039 --> 01:10:09.840
And when I hear the way that he's just talking about those teams and the fondness that he had, and the way that he recalls it, and when he said, you know, Cardiff is my team, and I thought, well, wow, I guess it is, but like you the way he says it, the passion in which he delivered it, you realise just how much this club meant to him.
01:10:09.920 --> 01:10:13.359
And just I I'm indebted to him because I wouldn't be here now.
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:17.520
I don't think if NS's teams are as as good and as successful and entertaining as they were.
01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:20.319
Yeah, and I think that's really important part to touch on.
01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:23.439
You know, he he he played in Scotland for a number of years.
01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:27.600
He played in his hometown, and then he still refers to Cardiff as his team, you know.
01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:29.920
That that was the sp the the place that he really I think made it.
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.159
He won league titles before he came to Cardiff.
01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:39.760
So, like to to have that that feeling towards the city and this team, I think is is such a it's a credit to him and a credit to the club.
01:10:39.920 --> 01:10:50.159
It is, and and I just reminded me then about the beginning of his story where he's you know a teenager coming to the rink and falling in love with hockey and start it and make it a go of it.
01:10:50.319 --> 01:10:54.399
That feels like all of the guys in Cardiff and how you know you started as well.
01:10:54.479 --> 01:11:09.680
And when he said that, I thought that was really cool that he had such a similar story to the sport and kind of you know talk about the identity and taking it through and stuff, and he had those same origins in it as well, and then you start to realize why it all works.
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:18.079
Franny, he um he talked about you know how winning is part of your like central nervous system, and another, I guess another way of phrasing that is winning DNA.
01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:29.039
And there's a similarity between, you know, uh him and and the man who recently has referenced winning DNA and Paul Thompson, and they they seem like two guys cut from a similar kind of mould, I think.
01:11:29.600 --> 01:11:40.640
Yeah, I mean it's we've talked about before that when you when you win something, all you can think about is winning the next thing.
01:11:40.880 --> 01:11:45.920
And it you know, it's not often a team wins one thing and then they don't win anything ever again.
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.479
It's normally in like a little bit of a cycle, isn't it?
01:11:48.640 --> 01:11:59.520
Where you know one team is dominating stuff because you have that group and it usually then falls apart when the core of that group then you know retire or something like that.
01:11:59.600 --> 01:12:11.119
Or say like at Manchester United in football, they were the dominant force, and then Alex Ferguson retires, and then all of a sudden everything falls apart, and now look how difficult they find it to win.
01:12:11.359 --> 01:12:22.079
And yeah, I mean, just you you could just hear it in his voice that when he's talking about winning, becoming a part of your central nervous system, you know, it's it is.
01:12:22.239 --> 01:12:37.039
I mean, and it's it's just it's just weird for for me that I've been so fortunate to be around this club so long with so many championships that have uh been won to think that some guys go their whole career and they don't win anything.
01:12:37.199 --> 01:12:57.119
And it's just mind-blowing because once you I know I once you've been around a winning team, you you kind of like you're in it, you're in the club, and you know, they say your winning teams uh will stay together forever, and you know, you still speak to guys that you won with, you don't speak to the guys that you played in a team with and didn't win anything, and it's and it's so true.
01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:01.039
Guys, any final words on on Paul Heavy and his impact on the devils?
01:13:01.840 --> 01:13:12.000
Just I I I read that that that was a really, really fun interview, and I I was struck by just how invested he was in telling it.
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:23.199
I I think that's what I I I was engrossed in listening to him, and as I was, and I got about halfway through the interview, and I think he'd probably be talking about 20 minutes without us having having to talk.
01:13:23.279 --> 01:13:37.920
And I was just I just sat there and thought, wow, no wonder he was as successful as he was, because if if he's done managed to have this impact on me within 20 minutes, imagine what impact he had in those 10 years as as captain and coach.
01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:47.600
Um, a big thank you, like I said before to him for making such a brilliant set set of uh teams that that I I got to to sit in the stands and watch.
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:51.199
Um and yeah, I can't wait to catch up with him in October.
01:13:51.359 --> 01:13:52.319
Yeah, it's gonna be great.
01:13:52.399 --> 01:13:55.680
And uh like we said, it's he's gonna be here for the for the anniversary weekend.
01:13:55.760 --> 01:13:58.560
So uh if you haven't met him before, go shake his hand and say hello.
01:13:58.640 --> 01:14:01.439
He's a lovely man, and I'm sure he'll have plenty of stories to tell.
01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:04.880
But uh, we're gonna very quickly before we end the show tonight look ahead to the weekend.
01:14:04.960 --> 01:14:08.640
And I just want to look at Friday in particular because Manchester are coming to town.
01:14:08.720 --> 01:14:17.439
It's the first time we've played against them this season, and uh and there's a lot to look forward to with that game because I think Cam Critchlow has uh has done a good job so far in his time there, and they look like a good outfit.
01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:22.000
And guys, it this is gonna be a challenging weekend for the Devils, but it's gonna be a challenging Friday night.
01:14:22.079 --> 01:14:29.680
You know, you look you look at the the the storm roster, they've kept, you know, Derrida, Cutler, Gilmore, but then they go and get someone like Dryden Dow as well to replace Nick Welsh.
01:14:29.840 --> 01:14:31.920
This they're gonna be competitive once again.
01:14:32.159 --> 01:14:32.640
They are.
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:38.560
They've uh you've got to keep a core, and I think they had a really good foundation on which to build.
01:14:38.720 --> 01:14:44.640
Uh, we waxed lyrical about Cam Critchlow loads last season, um, about the job he was doing.
01:14:44.800 --> 01:14:46.399
Um, and there's a reason for that.
01:14:46.479 --> 01:14:52.239
He he he got people on board in his vision, and we're talking about coaches and getting people on board with what you want to do.
01:14:52.319 --> 01:14:58.319
I I get a sense that Cam Critchlow has got a real hold on his team and his vision for the Manchester storm.
01:14:58.479 --> 01:15:05.119
Um, you know, they'll have been buoyed by you know a decent result on Saturday night up in Nottingham.
01:15:05.199 --> 01:15:11.359
They sadly didn't get to play the game on Sunday, so that you know they'll be disappointed with that.
01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:17.760
Um, but I think much like that, I talked about taking the initiative against Coventry, and we didn't do that.
01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:26.479
We can't afford not to do that uh on Friday because um we are at again we're ahead of Manchester in terms of the longer preseason and things.
01:15:26.560 --> 01:15:32.479
We we've got to look fresher, we've got to add that money in the bank, and you've got to trade fire with fire with a storm.
01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.319
They're not a passive team, they're not a team that's gonna shy away from the fight.
01:15:36.399 --> 01:15:42.239
So you've got to outwork them first of all, but you know, it anything less than two points will be a disappointment.
01:15:42.479 --> 01:15:47.920
Franny, we want to see a first period and a first stretch, similar probably to the the Nottingham game in preseason.
01:15:48.159 --> 01:15:50.880
We want the Devils to come in hot and really hit the game hard.
01:15:51.199 --> 01:15:56.399
Yeah, I mean, I was speaking to Paul Thompson after the game in Coventry, and he was really disappointed.
01:15:56.479 --> 01:16:00.079
He was gutted not to come away with those two points.
01:16:00.319 --> 01:16:04.159
Um, you know, just really frustrated by it.
01:16:04.319 --> 01:16:10.720
And you know, what Paul Thompson has shown is he's got a good way of feeding back to the players and getting some bounce back.
01:16:10.800 --> 01:16:17.520
You know, we saw that you know from the Nottingham, and we said then oh Devils really need to come out the the blocks flying.
01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:21.439
And they I think we scored in the first 33 seconds or whatever it was.
01:16:21.600 --> 01:16:34.159
Um, in a similar way, he will be feeding back to the team his displeasure about the the Sunday result, and you know, no doubt working hard to fix um on those things.
01:16:34.399 --> 01:16:40.159
Um Manchester, they will be eager to get their first win of the of the campaign, won't they?
01:16:40.239 --> 01:16:49.840
I mean, they've um you know, I think even in preseason they they had those results that they didn't quite get over the line and again uh on on last Saturday.
01:16:50.079 --> 01:16:52.640
So they'll be eager to to come in here.
01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:57.119
You know, they got some, like you say, uh a good core coming back.
01:16:57.279 --> 01:16:58.960
We talk about Davil's identity.
01:16:59.039 --> 01:17:05.199
Well, Manchester Storm have got an identity under Cam Kritchlow and it kind of follows his own playing style.
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:07.840
Uh, he you know, he's added in some big names.
01:17:07.920 --> 01:17:10.479
Uh uh, Maximovich, I'm looking forward to seeing.
01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:13.199
He won uh championship with Herning in Denmark.
01:17:13.359 --> 01:17:16.479
Um, Patrick Koodler, um, I recognise him.
01:17:16.560 --> 01:17:20.319
He played with Bounsey in Slovakia when when he was over there.
01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:25.359
Um, you know, very tall D-man, but you know, skilled, and you know, I'm sure he'll be a big weapon on the power play.
01:17:25.520 --> 01:17:27.439
Dryden Dow, you've talked about coming in.
01:17:27.520 --> 01:17:30.319
You know, he's been the D franchise player for so long.
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:41.680
So, you know, he's looked to have brought some key pieces in to build on the core guys he wanted to come back, and you know, they'll want to get their season going pretty quickly, but you know, enough about Manchester Storm.
01:17:41.840 --> 01:17:45.840
It's about the Devils on Friday night and getting back to winning ways.
01:17:45.920 --> 01:17:56.079
And you know, you've got to keep chipping away at these two points uh in the Challenge Cup because you know, soon enough, as we found last year, it can creep up on you, you can be in a very awkward position.
01:17:56.239 --> 01:17:57.840
And that's the last thing we want to do.
01:17:58.079 --> 01:17:59.760
It is indeed the last thing we want to do.
01:17:59.920 --> 01:18:03.600
Devils take on the storm on Friday night to kickstart another weekend of hockey.
01:18:03.840 --> 01:18:05.520
That's all we've got for the show tonight.
01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:06.880
We really appreciate you listening in.
01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:08.960
Thank you to Joey Martin for coming and chatting to us.
01:18:09.039 --> 01:18:12.640
Thank you to Paul Heavy for coming and chatting to us as well, and thank you to you both for joining me.
01:18:12.720 --> 01:18:14.239
It's great to see you once again.
01:18:14.479 --> 01:18:18.319
And um, of course, as always, the biggest thank you goes to you guys at home for listening in.
01:18:18.399 --> 01:18:19.520
We really appreciate it.
01:18:19.680 --> 01:18:23.439
We will be back with debrief after the game on Saturday uh Friday.
01:18:23.520 --> 01:18:24.560
Don't forget Friday.
01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:26.319
I almost made that mistake then.
01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:29.039
And then, of course, they're up to Guilford on Saturday.
01:18:29.119 --> 01:18:30.159
So, yeah, we will see you then.
01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:32.960
Thank you so much for listening in once again, and we'll catch you soon.
01:18:33.039 --> 01:18:34.000
Goodbye.
01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:39.279
Thank you very much once again to our sponsor, Minerva Hearing, for today's podcast.
01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:42.960
And remember, Minerva Hearing, hear the cheers, protect your ears.