Episode 28 – Ryan Leeming: Designing Places That Matter

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We do a lot with community engagement.
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We do a ton with events.
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So we love to buy properties that may not have a green space.
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And we like to figure out a way to put that green space there.
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And then then we once we have that central green or that lawn, we program that lawn with lots of events.
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You you asked me earlier, like what brings me energy?
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I love in a redevelopment where we can do that.
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You know, we can find a creative way to bring that lawn or bring that community gathering space and then work with our marketing and events team to program it in a way that brings people to the center.
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Another Built to Suit podcast coming your way.
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We've been working through a series of more technical podcasts, and now we're kind of in a new series of design-oriented podcasts.
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We had Andrew Swedenborg here with us uh a couple of weeks ago, and now he was inside.
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Now we have gentlemen outside.
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Uh certainly welcome Ryan Leeming to the pod.
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Uh hopefully uh you had a wonderful trip from Boston.
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Yeah.
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But uh you involved with us and and be down here and share kind of the developer side of design.
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And so I think that's kind of cool.
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And that's kind of where I want to start.
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Sure.
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Uh kind of want to start with the idea of of kind of what you're doing in your day job today and how does architecture kind of influence that?
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Sure.
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Well, thanks for having me.
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Um it's great to reconnect after many, many years uh with the Kahachi team um here in Florida.
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So I would say, you know, how does architecture connect and what are we doing?
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So really, I'd say my role or the our role at Eden's, we're looking at investments all over the country, grocery-anchored shopping centers, you know, places where the community comes, places where we can add value to really enrich that community.
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That's our mission at the end of the day, is to really enrich community through bringing people together at our places.
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Um and architecture and design plays a huge role.
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Um, one of the things that attracted me to join Eden's was the focus on design and architecture and just how particular and how important it is to us.
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So it's a huge piece of what we do.
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Um it's something we focus a ton on.
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We have a lot of internal resources and team members that are kind of in our design group.
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Um, a lot of them architects, some of them engineers.
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Is that unique for a developer, you think?
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I think it is unique.
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Um, you know, I had the pleasure of starting my career at a at a family-owned Boston developer that had the same philosophy.
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I think that's kind of how I got my foot in the door, you know, coming out of architecture school.
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I was able to find a firm that really cared about design and tried to maintain as much of the control over design in-house before a project was really real.
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You know, we we really tried to do the planning and the design and think about the architecture and think about the merchandising and the signage and the leasing and all those things.
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We really tried to give it a vision internally first and then kind of go outside and and bring in that great partner, that great architect, that great team to help kind of see our vision through.
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Yeah, you brought up the word investment.
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So when I think of developer, generally I think of, well, it's it's you know, they're pulling the money together, uh, they're organizing tenants.
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It's not really architecturally driven.
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So, you know, what do you, as an architect, what are you specifically responsible for in on your day-to-day?
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Well, one of the biggest things I'm responsible for is making sure our consultant teams and our partners get projects permitted, right?
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Get projects entitled, right?
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That's a big part of what I do is is driving the team.
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Yes, you all make focus in on the things you're not controlling making sure the deadlines get hit, making sure we we get those comments back in, making sure those resubmissions happen, making sure we're addressing comments from our municipal partners and stuff.
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That's a big part of of kind of what I'm working on across a handful of projects in Florida.
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Um but otherwise, you know, when I have a minute to step back and maybe breathe for a sec, I might throw something out there to like as like a fresh set of eyes on a project.
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Hey, have we thought about this or we thought about that?
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Or we thought about how if we move this sign over here, how that might open up better possibilities for leasing or et cetera.
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So um, you know, I'm working on something now here where that kind of happened.
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We had a change in a project, um, a large vacant 50,000 square foot box.
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And our retail partner who we have a lease with kind of came back to us and said, Hey, we might want more space.
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And we said, Okay, let's see what that means.
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We had it as, you know, two retailers.
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We were able to make it one and provide a lot more frontage.
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And so we said, Hey, I think maybe those couple of groups that were sort of, you know, they just thought it was an okay position.
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Now, if we do this and we make this change, we'll have a lot more frontage.
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We can have a larger patio.
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Maybe we can work with the town, we can move some of this landscaping out of the way and really create this experience with this grand outdoor patio.
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And we did some renderings and we're now at least with, you know, a much, I'd say, more impressive retail partner for that space based upon a change that we were able to like position and say, look, it actually makes things better.
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You brought up the Achilles heel probably of every large-scale project, which is probably getting it through entitlements and permitting.
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Sure.
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But that can't that can't give you the most energy of what you do on a daily basis.
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There's got to be something that really gives you energy in your day job.
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And so I'd I'd be intrigued to know where that comes from, where your getup comes from.
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I you know, I would say I like the entitlement side more than the permit side.
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Um, the permit side can feel a little rigorous sometimes and trying to get those things and get those permits completed and closed out and and over the finish line so you can start construction while still, you know, dealing with comments and and kind of getting these municipal partners what they want.
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And let's let's step back because for the young professional, uh, they may not completely understand the difference between entitling a piece of land and then the more transactional parts of getting uh permitting for civil or permitting for architecture and engineering.
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So maybe peel back a little bit and try to try to shape those two, the kinds of things you have to do when you show up on site and there's something to be done, either a Greenfield piece of property or or some of the you know transitional stuff that you guys have been doing.
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Yeah, I think the easiest way to think about it is entitlements are your planning and zoning approvals.
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So those are your land use approvals.
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Um what do we want to build?
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How big or small do we want to build?
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How much parking does it have?
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Does it meet the city or town or municipal codes for that zoning classification?
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Or are you asking for special permits, rezoning?
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It's getting the, you know, this sort of say it's getting the land entitled.
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Um, it's getting the approvals to have, you know, the approvals over what you want to build, but not necessarily having the permit to physically build it.
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So entitlements come first.
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That's usually it can be a very long process.
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It's a public process, usually.
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You know, you're in front of planning boards, zoning boards, you are making the pitch to the city or the town.
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Here's why this project is good for the municipality, here's why we want to do this, here's our thinking, here's our supporting information, our traffic, our environmental, you know, the engineering of it, right?
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How does drainage work?
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How does you know how are we going to treat stormwater?
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Things like that.
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Um and then from there, once you're through that entitlement process, then you move into a permitting process where now you have final drawings, right?
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And when you're in in entitlements, you might not have full construction drawings, you know, the architect, the engineers may be at a 30, 40 percent level of design.
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You're you're selling the story, you're painting the picture.
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Once that's through, then you kind of go full speed to finishing those drawings, and now you're looking to physically pull the permit or pull the piece of paper that allows you to build what you want to build.
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And so let's talk about take me behind the curtain just a little bit, because you guys often acquire property or acquire completed centers, centers you think you can improve without those entitlements complete.
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And and so how do you how do you manage that risk of well, we we think we can do this.
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I mean, do you do you solve that before you buy the property, or do you kind of iterate your way through it?
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All different.
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In most cases, any I think any developer will tell you you want to have that entitlement risk off the table before you buy the property.
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That's sort of the textbook move, right?
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You want to have enough time in your contract for whatever you're buying to be able to get those entitlements completed.
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And a lot of times, you know, a condition, sometimes a condition of closing on the land is full, unappealable, you know, entitlements and even permits in some case.
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Um that doesn't always happen.
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I think sellers have gotten a lot smarter over the years.
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And so sometimes you have to be willing to go at risk.
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Um we've done that before.
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I think other developers do it, but it's not always the the best course of action.
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But if you feel like you have the support, if you feel like you have municipal support, you know, you can take that calculated risk.
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Yeah, obviously you and I worked on a project almost 15 years ago now, 15 to 17 years ago is a much different project.
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When you talk about your current employer, you talk about someone who likes to almost project bank or land bank and kind of a different maybe kind of a different strategy where the the actual improvement work may be years after you purchase.
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So how does that what's the calculus behind those kind of risks?
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Do you just kind of know you can do something?
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I don't think we know we can do something.
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I think we know enough about the market, we know enough about the municipality we feel good about the investment or the purchase if it's if it's an existing asset.
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Um it may be that we can't do anything, right?
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That we're buying this this shopping center, this we call them places, this place.
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And the previous owner or previous builder, you know, maxed it out per the per the codes, and we can't do anything.
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But it's a great center and it's a great asset, and we feel like there's still some value add through remerchandising or some of the lighter lifts, some of that place-making stuff.
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Can we add a restaurant here?
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Can we add a restaurant there?
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Maybe as retailers' leases expire, it's less of a redevelopment in a sense of building new buildings and creating new leasable area, and it's more about elevating the place that exists to be able to attract, you know, that new segment of retailer.
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Um and we do a lot with community engagement.
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We do a ton with events.
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So we love to buy properties that may not have a green space, and we like to figure out a way to put that green space there.
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And then then we once we have that central green or that lawn, we program that lawn with lots of events.
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You you asked me earlier, like what brings me energy?
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I love inner redevelopment where we can do that, you know, we can find a creative way to bring that lawn or bring that community gathering space and then work with our marketing and events team to program it in a way that brings people to the center.
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And we'll get to placemaking.
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I I think there's a whole conversation about placemaking and architecture.
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Um, let's go back because perhaps you didn't even know what a developer did when you were in architectural school.
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So let's go back and figure out your architectural journey because it's I just think it's really kind of enlightening uh for you to go on the journey you've been on, because most of us end up where we do, end up uh in a technical role for an architect for a number of years.
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But you kind of were heading down that path.
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You interned in a lot of different places in school.
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So let's let's take your school journey.
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Where where you do you're a formerly trained architect?
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Where where'd you go to school?
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Um, I went to school in Boston.
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So I grew up in Rhode Island and wanted to go to Boston for school.
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It was close enough, yet far enough.
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And it was good.
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And it was a you know, it was a city.
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I just I don't know why.
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I don't know what taught me or trained me to think this way, but I said Boston's a big city.
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There's probably lots of opportunity, or there's just more happening in Boston.
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So I want to go to school in Boston.
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I went to um a small college just next to Northeastern University called Wentworth, right?
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I'm the of the generation where it is you have to go to college, you must go to college because that's how you get a good job.
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And so I said, okay, a college is a means to an end to get a good job.
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And Wentworth has this co-op program that helps you get a job.
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And it was, I'd say at the time it was priced fairly well, you know, and it was a so it made it attractive.
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Um I also played ice hockey my entire life, and they had a D3 ice hockey team that was pretty decent.
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I actually had a an old friend that kind of grew up in my neighborhood that also went to that college.
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Um I must digress.
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Ice hockey.
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Uh that I I I just think about that.
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What is the the rough and tumble ice hockey guy and the developer?
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Do you use those skills ever at work?
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Not at all.
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Not at all.
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Not at all.
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You can't slash somebody never right.
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Yeah, and I was never really that good at playing.
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I was sort of mediocre at best um at hockey.
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Um, you know, my father was a an ice hockey player his whole life.
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He was a goalie.
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My younger sister still plays goalie to this day, and so he really pushed me into ice hockey at a young age as like the sport I was going to play.
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And it was awesome.
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But um, it's funny.
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I have uh a sister that figure skates and still teaches skating in Texas, and uh a daughter that skated till she was 14, and my claim to fame is I couldn't skate at all, but I worked in an ice rink in college and I resurfaced the ice rink.
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You did the Zamboni.
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Yeah, I love it.
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That is not the easiest thing to drive.
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Uh, I will tell you.
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You can slam into the boards.
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Yeah.
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Uh pretty cool.
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But it's a neat intersection of uh just where you start and that you don't really start in a place that you end up.
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And I think your story is incredibly unique, is that the co-op program at Wentworth took you to a place where you really got a broad array of experiences, not just architecture, but structure and other things.
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I mean, how did that shape you wanting, you you're wanting to learn, you're searching, you're curious, and then you figure out who is this developer guy?
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Yeah.
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So in architecture school, I really enjoyed that visioning process that, you know, it was like the concept process as it was taught to us in school, coming up with the concept, right?
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What's your concept?
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What's your concept?
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What's your concept?
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Um and I enjoyed that process and kind of going on the journey to figure out what your concept is and and what is influencing influencing your concept.
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When the co-op thing came into play, I was a sophomore and I grew up in Rhode Island.
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So I was able to get an internship at a Rhode Island-based architecture firm where I learned a lot about really what an architect does.
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And they moved me around in that, you know, it was great.
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It was a great experience.
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You know, I got to shadow a lot of different people.
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And in shadowing the CA or the construction admin person, he started talking to me about, you know, the relationship between the different folks.
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You know, he's the guy out in the field.
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He's he's the one dealing with the owner, the developer.
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And and I'd say, He's the one bringing the issues back to it.
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Right.
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Right.
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Well, do you know, do you know, do you know who the owner, do you know the developer, the owner?
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I said, what are you talking, owner?
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What the what are you talking about?
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And he really taught me about the relationship between the different groups and who does what.
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And this firm was in an old mill complex, and part of the mill complex was being redone into apartments, like loft style apartments, and the firm was doing the project.
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So, you know, I got to go out onto that construction site almost whenever I wanted.
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Um, I'd say, Hey, can I go take a look?
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And they'd say, Yeah, sure.
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And they'd throw me a clipboard, and I didn't know it at the time, but I was sort of doing punch list work.
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You know, they'd say, Yeah, here's a clipboard, walk around, see what you see, you know, talk, you know, bring this guy with you.
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And so I started to learn punch list work.
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And I started to see, you know, the owner, architect, engineer, sort of saw them all on site working together.
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And I and I learned more about the relationships between the two.
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And I started to talk more with folks there about, you know, as we got involved in the design side of stuff, I sort of piped up a little bit, you know, I sort of got more passionate about it.
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Is that what caught your imagination about that old meal project?
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Was being able to see something that was in place.
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Absolutely.
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But you're kind of, wow, how did this how'd this happen?
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How did how did this get ideated?
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Um because I get the sense that you you may do the details, but it probably doesn't get you in the more up in the morning.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:34.720
It's kind of that higher-level ideation visioning that that gets you there.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:43.680
So you were able to see something in a transaction where you were walking around going, well, maybe that maybe that paint scratch there, but you could take it back upstream.
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:48.960
That's a really cool kind of observation that you can make as a as a young student.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:50.000
Yeah, definitely.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:56.880
That project and and some others uh sort of turned me on to, okay, you know, the architect, right?
00:18:57.039 --> 00:19:08.079
Here I am, a young college student of thinking, right, learning about great global architects that create these great buildings and learning about Norman Foster and Renzo Piano and Frank Ludwright and all these guys.
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:14.319
And I'm thinking, oh yeah, they just show up and build the building, you know, like that's what architects do.
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.519
Uh they just they create the whole building, you know, start to finish.
00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:18.960
And that's not really the case.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.000
There's a team of folks and there's a lot of partners involved.
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:32.160
And in a lot of cases, I I noticed even in sitting in meetings, that the owner or or the client sometimes would say, Hey, what if we did this, or what if we did that, or what if we did that?
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:37.200
And in some cases, you know, the architect would say, Well, you know, I don't think that's a great idea.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:42.000
Here's why it's not a great, but they might, you know, oh yeah, that's an excellent, let's, you know, you know, Ryan, take that down.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.119
You know, take that down.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:47.440
Um, so I learned that there was that that give that back and forth, that give and take there.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:54.960
So that's what got me, I'd say that first job, uh, it taught me about who a developer is or what a developer is.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:58.480
And from there, the next few years, I just I did a lot of research.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:18.000
So who pushed you not only into the research, but where did you have that epiphany that, hey, maybe an architectural, a pure traditional architectural career is not for me, that maybe, you know, maybe I need to abandon the traditional role and then embrace kind of something that's more hybrid.
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.519
At what point was there a you know, road to a mayus moment?
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:30.319
Was there somebody that that that that particularly got you involved in that, or was it just something that you kind of by over time just developed?
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:39.200
It was that first internship, I think, that really taught me about the role of an architect and the project team.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:50.559
And and then as I continued through school and I continued through the co-op program, um, there was also an individual, a friend of mine, who was a little bit older than me, who also had an interest in real estate.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:52.319
Um we were friends.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.440
Uh, I played hockey with his younger brother, so I knew who he was.
00:20:55.839 --> 00:21:02.400
And I reached out to him and just we got connected and I said, you know, you're interested in real estate, right?
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:03.039
And he said, Yeah.
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:04.960
And he kind of had some of the same thoughts as me.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:16.079
Like he's like, Yeah, the architect I I like the architecture stuff, but you know, I'm a little bit more interested in sort of, you know, rehab of old buildings and and creating things.
00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:22.319
And so my second co-op, I ended up working at a structural engineering firm to see that side of the of the world.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:38.480
And then my last co-op I worked, I actually went to work with the the friend I mentioned who had created his own business um working for developers and in and around Boston, doing floor plans, doing as built, right?
00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:40.079
We knew how to use AutoCAD.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:49.359
So he used that as a way to find some clients and some folks and network and kind of get into that community.
00:21:49.599 --> 00:21:59.200
And so now we were working on, you know, oh, so and so is just bought a building in Back Bay and you know, it's a forty unit apartment building and he has no plans.
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:02.960
So We're gonna go and we're gonna draw the building for him.
00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:08.000
And that's gonna give him what he needs to now figure out what he can do with it.
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:21.359
Um, so it was kind of like a consultant architectural services type business where this gentleman was able to really work for some great small local developers in and around Boston.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:27.039
Um, and so I got to see that side of the world and think, okay, this is this is cool.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:34.799
This is this is where I want to be or this is what I want to focus on, trying to find a way to maybe work for someone like this.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:36.880
Kind of a scruple question.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:44.240
Um at what point do professionals become professionals?
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:53.119
Meaning um I find that young employees uh that come into our profession sometimes they pretend to understand.
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:58.640
I mean, do you have any advice for somebody who who it's okay to learn?
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:00.240
Yeah, it's okay to connect.
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:04.480
You have to have those people, young people in your midst in the developer community.
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.279
But but how did you navigate that?
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:22.400
I definitely was that young grad who came in and was, you know, a year into the job and thought I knew everything and all and I and I had to get pretty humble pretty quick.
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:24.400
I think we all do, Ryan.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.880
I think that's that's the thing that I don't think.
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:36.559
I think the young employee today thinks they've left school and they have to know, as opposed to how do you create that journey, the journey of learning.
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:47.680
And I think your wentward journey, especially your working at multiple places, I think to me that's an incredible kind of way to see the edges of the box.
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:59.759
Yeah, I think you have to create an environment for those young people where it's okay to, you know, you support them through their learning or support them through them falling down, right?
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:00.480
It's how you learn.
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.039
Learn by, you know, you learn by making mistakes.
00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:10.960
Um, so I think you have to create environments that allow for that and let it be known that it's okay not to know everything, right?
00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.160
The expectation is not that you know everything.
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:29.200
The expectation is that you keep an open mind and you work hard and you absorb everything you can, you learn what you can, and you learn through that process and you grow through that process, and we're here to catch you if you fall.
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:30.160
Sort of.
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:32.480
Um we won't let you get skinned.
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:34.400
But it's okay to but it's okay to fall.
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:36.079
It's okay to fall down.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.279
You know, I I mean, I think that's how you have to do it.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:45.279
I I've always believed, and and maybe I'm not the quintessential architect, that best ideas should win.
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:50.559
And and I don't I don't I don't have that viewpoint that my idea is always the best idea.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:59.279
Um now in the absence of idea, uh, I tend to I tend to jump in, uh, which is probably not one of my better attributes.
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:10.240
Well, I'm I'm the same, I'm the same way in that like you like I said, if I feel like the team is stuck on something, you know, I will often time jump in and try to help.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:38.720
Uh someone once taught me early in my career, you know, they said cutting that path or or first journey or whatever is sometimes the hardest thing to do, you know, is sort of taking that initial pass or is sort of harder than you know, and so I think from an early, early, I was always like, okay, let me try to throw something against the wall that at least gets a discussion going, you know, even if it's wrong, right?
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.799
Well, we can't do that because of this, but we could do this or we could do that.
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.079
So it's okay being wrong.
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:44.799
It's okay.
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:51.279
I I think ideation is about uh uh what's the Edison line?
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.839
I didn't learn how to make a light bulb.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.920
I learned the 500 ways you can't, yeah, or something in that in that in that vein.
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:05.759
I think you're going to be I think you're going to be wrong in that, you know, there's a reason site plan 252, you know, there's a reason you do 300 site, right?
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:08.000
Like you spend a year being wrong.
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:12.799
Or, you know, you spend time being wrong and figuring it out and figuring out what works.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:16.000
Uh something close to your heart placemaking, I'm sure.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:16.400
Yeah.
00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:23.680
Uh because a lot of what you're not able to do in in retail and grocery is to influence the inside of space.
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:37.359
You you tend to be, I don't know if you're relegated to outside space as a as a development architect or a development developer, uh, but certainly the most impact that you can have is the is the glue.
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:45.839
And uh would take maybe Palm Beach Gardens, the project that you're kind of working on over the past few years here.
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:50.720
And so you're you're you're taking over uh what should be a mature project.
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.559
Uh there's some issues with it.
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:55.359
I mean, you get on the site, you walk on the property.
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:57.599
What do you feel is missing straight up?
00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:03.200
Well, it was still under construction when we acquired it, and it was significantly vacant.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:08.240
Um, so it definitely needed to just be complete, right?
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:11.359
We needed to get the construction fencing out of there.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:13.839
We need to we needed to finish construction.
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:19.759
Um the shopping center was open and operating for years while still under construction.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:27.440
So the community had become very accustomed to shopping in a construction site, which it's not pleasant.
00:27:27.680 --> 00:27:32.079
You know, you can do it, but it's not it's not always the best uh journey for the customer.
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.400
So we knew we needed it needed to be complete.
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:40.559
We also knew it needed some life from a merchandising perspective.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:44.960
There's an internal, they call it the strand, they're the internal walkway.
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:51.359
Um there was definitely some some pockets that were vacant that just didn't have much energy.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:28:02.960
So it needed some merchandising, and then it needed a little bit more from that placemaking element, um people to hang out, people to find a reason to stop for a minute.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.519
Um so those were sort of the some of the quick things that jumped out.
00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:15.839
There were definitely areas in the project that just felt asleep, you know, that needed some needed some life.
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:21.920
Yeah, you you introduced a word that I had not been connected to, jewelry.
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.000
Oh, and uh meet me what does that really mean placement?
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:30.000
Yeah, me either, me either, uh prior to Eden's, which is as cool.
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:46.799
I don't know who I have to give credit to for coming up with that, but um we call so all of the furnishings on site from furniture to trash cans to art, the art program, art you know, art is a huge part of what we do.
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:53.519
Anything that sort of goes on the site at the very end, we call it the jewelry, right?
00:28:53.759 --> 00:28:56.880
So it's like the accessory, the accessories of the project.
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:57.759
Bling bling.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:58.640
Right, exactly.
00:28:58.720 --> 00:28:59.839
So we call it jewelry.
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.359
That's really, really cool.
00:29:01.599 --> 00:29:03.839
I just I've never heard that term before.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.480
And I just thought that's a lot on it.
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:07.680
It actually says a lot.
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:10.960
So jewelry is like flowers and color and furniture.
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.279
Why does why does that matter?
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.960
Why does that matter to the customer?
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:21.359
It softens the environment, it it makes it feel human scale, right?
00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:30.319
I think we love to where we can, we love to invest in unique furniture or even unique pieces.
00:29:30.480 --> 00:30:18.480
Um Palm Beach Gardens is a great example where, again, looking at other groups and what they've done and trying to learn from what they've done, this is not an original idea, but we put a small seating area in Palm Beach Gardens, and we had power outside, we had power outlets everywhere, and we bought an old retro fridge, we plugged it in and we put some decals on it, and our our marketing team keeps it stocked with popsicles and ice cream and books, and it's like this cool retro fridge in the middle of the concourse with the seating area, and you know, people are constantly walking by and they're like, Oh, let's go grab a popsicle, or let's grab a book.
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:24.640
We've seen, you know, grandma and grandpa taking the grandkids out, and they're like, grandma, you gotta see there's books in the fridge.
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:26.400
Books in the fridge.
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:31.599
And so we love to do, you know, we love to do like the pocket library or the little libraries.
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.880
That's a big, that's one of our things we love to do.
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:38.720
Um, it gives people a reason to just sit for sit for a minute.
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:45.359
And so we said, How do we take this cool retro fridge hot, right?
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:49.440
Give people a minute to stop and grab a popsicle and read a book.
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:54.000
So is that like a just an indoor outdoor environment?
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:55.200
Fully outdoor.
00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:06.960
So basically, you're in Florida, you're balancing rain, which is probably every day at five, or if the wind's blowing in the other direction, every day at 11:30, either one.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:15.119
So, how do you as a placemaker, how do you how do you balance sun and shade and rain and canopy?
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:18.079
Uh, how does how do all those things come into play?
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:28.000
Because those become uh things you can as the as a developer, you're gonna want to people to stay there longer, uh, don't be impacted by the rain.
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:30.079
Did you all think about that at Palm Beach?
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:37.599
There were a couple elements, one in particular that we had heard about through dealing with, you know, working with the city.
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:42.880
There was this canopy that they wanted to connect.
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:58.319
There were two out two areas where you came underneath an arcade and you came to where the arcade ended, and then on the other side there was a canopy that picked up, and they wanted this freestanding thing to con in the middle to connect the two.
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:00.319
And we said, okay, what can we do here?
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:08.319
And I worked with our design team, and we ended up coming up with um, we worked with a local group, a canopy company, to create something.
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:16.000
We sort of took, you know, they had an off-the-shelf, uh, call it traditional product, and we modified it a little bit.
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:21.839
We changed the column spacing on it a little bit, and we bought it, installed it.
00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:23.759
And then there's a great group.
00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:25.359
They have three offices.
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.279
Um, we work with them a lot.
00:32:27.440 --> 00:32:30.079
They do faux floral installs.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:41.200
And so we had the canopy up, took a photo and said, what would it take for you to come and wrap this thing in faux florals and make it look just like this rendering?
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:44.240
And I said, Oh, we can be out there this weekend.
00:32:45.680 --> 00:32:50.799
And so for you know, a fraction of the price, we went ahead and chose to go faux.
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:52.960
And these are really high quality.
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:56.400
So to the to the consumer, you would think it's real.
00:32:56.640 --> 00:32:59.359
My wife, you know, she's not in real estate.
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.720
She's like, How did you get these to, you know, we've we've done them in other parts of the country.
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:04.640
And she's like, How'd you get these to bloom in winter?
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.079
And I'll say, Well, they're fake.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:08.000
She's like, You're you're kidding me.
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:16.640
Um, so we we actually we used faux quite a bit where it's applicable, where it needs to be up up really high on buildings.
00:33:17.279 --> 00:33:27.920
Um so we did that and we finished this canopy out and we created this great floral centerpiece to this project, to the section of the strand that kind of was a dead zone.
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:33.039
And then we also gave the city the canopy that they wanted to connect the two.
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:41.599
And then we ended up putting a bunch of swinging benches in and stuff, and it's now a place where people hang out, and it's kind of become this centerpiece.
00:33:42.079 --> 00:34:08.400
I'm trying to understand when you right size it from large place, which we've all seen, uh, which could have green, uh a big green, a big play area, and all these things, and and how when you're working in a twenty to thirty acre site, it's a it's a much different and it's it's a much different shape to the problem and uh kind of bump into one of my uh favorites, uh grocery.
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:08.960
Yeah.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:10.320
You know, everyday life.
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:10.880
Yeah.
00:34:11.119 --> 00:34:11.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:21.679
But it's like what does grocery why is grocery such a really powerful place to, you know, just it's not just simply another big box.
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:23.119
It's kind of important.
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:24.800
What makes it important, do you think?
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.440
I think even more so today.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:33.280
People are focused on high quality food or or good food or reputable food.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:39.360
Um and so you see grocers expanding.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:54.559
And I I think at the core of it, it's really important that you know it provides that community necessity and it provides that everyday or every couple of days repeat consumer.
00:34:55.039 --> 00:34:59.039
Um you know, it is the anchor in a lot of cases.
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:04.639
Let's talk about anchor because you're having recurring trips to this place.
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:10.800
We thought in 2020 that we were gonna have our stuff delivered home.
00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:17.920
Uh that's turned out for a broad array of us that's really just not how we shop, not not routinely shop.
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:21.440
There may be stuff that you get for convenience or otherwise.
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:26.880
But uh what does that recurring trip to the grocery store mean for the other tenants in the center?
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:31.840
I think it means footsteps, you know, it means you have a consumer that's there.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:40.639
People often come to our places three to five times a week, and it provides that opportunity for that cross shopping.
00:35:41.119 --> 00:35:46.719
Um, okay, I know I have to go get groceries, but is there something else I can do while I'm there?
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:48.960
Is there a coffee shop?
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:50.719
Is there a bookstore?
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:55.440
Is there a boutique, hair salon, a lunch place?
00:35:56.079 --> 00:36:10.239
You know, what are those other elements that we can bring from a merchandising perspective that the grocery shopper that needs to go there out of necessity, out of wanting to go grocery shopping, how can we keep them there?
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:17.679
Or how can we provide more for that consumer, that guest to stay at the property and patronize more businesses?
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.920
That's kind of a philosophy we think about a lot.
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:34.719
I so you're out there looking at dirt, probably improve property, which is kind of Eden's, you know, fortees to find something that they can either bank it improve or improve.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:39.599
How quickly do you look for stuff with grocery anchors specifically?
00:36:39.760 --> 00:36:47.039
Uh and and maybe the second corollary to that question is if you don't see one, how quick do you test for one?
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:48.239
Immediately.
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:51.119
Is it just that important to a small center?
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.079
Is that what it is?
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:59.679
We think it's that important to the really to the ecosystem of the property in that merchandising mix.
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:04.880
You know, we want people to come and visit our places, you know, multiple times a week.
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:13.519
We feel like having a grocery store anchors that, not to use the same word, but it kind of anchors that trip or it anchors that that footstep.
00:37:13.679 --> 00:37:18.719
Um, so yeah, we're we're primarily looking at places that have grocery stores.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:33.760
If it's a great asset that doesn't have a grocery store, we will immediately try to figure out who's missing and we'll immediately try to have a conversation with them to understand, you know, hey, is this a market that you're interested in?
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:35.599
We're looking at something.
00:37:35.920 --> 00:37:40.719
Is this something you'd be interested in if we might, you know, figure out how to take a pass at it?
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:44.880
And oftentimes we'll get that feedback, you know, it it's not really for us.
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:48.880
You know, obviously we love what you guys do, but it's not a market we're looking in.
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:52.159
Or yes, we would love to be there.
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:58.800
And it would be even better if if you know Eden's was able to get this property and we were able to partner on something here.
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:00.239
Technology.
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:01.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.559
AI, a pejorative for most young people these days.
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:06.320
I'm not really exactly sure why.
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:16.800
Maybe we start there, kind of a broad question of what do you think the young person struggles with with these types of forward-thinking technologies like AI?
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:18.639
Because they seem to not like them.
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:19.519
Really?
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:25.199
Is in in the sense that it's gonna take their job or it's holding them back.
00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:26.639
I mean, what do you think?
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:31.360
I mean, we've had commencement speeches where they boo the speaker because they talk about AI.
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:40.639
I'm just trying to understand it because I see it as a great, a potential great uh accelerator for the kinds of stuff we really just don't want to do.
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:42.960
That's a that's a good way of putting it.
00:38:43.119 --> 00:38:45.119
Um, we're very focused on it right now.
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:56.960
We have a lot of different groups and committees inside at Eidens thinking about the right ways to utilize AI and how we can utilize it correctly and in ways that actually help us.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:12.400
I think I'm starting to see that shift a little bit more from okay, it's not gonna take my job, but I should know enough about it to know how it could help me or how it could or how I could utilize it to make me better at my job.
00:39:12.639 --> 00:39:18.559
Um, a gentleman uh on our team, I was on a call and I thought it was a really good, great quote.
00:39:18.639 --> 00:39:27.840
I don't know where it comes from, but said trying to utilize AI in a way that allows humans to do what humans were meant to do.
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:35.199
I think it will uh radically transform architecture and engineering over the next uh five to ten years.
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:42.239
And I think the people who are doing the same thing over and over again, I think there is a challenge uh for their job.
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:55.599
Uh I think the people who evolve into being able to be more the um the orchestrator uh and be able to understand it and to be able to communicate because I think we're gonna communicate differently with the computer.
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:02.159
For the last 50 years, we've computed communicated with the computer with a keyboard and a mouse, and that has been our input device.
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:06.239
I think that's likely to be the biggest, most radical change.
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:08.880
Uh, but uh you sat in our VR lab for a few minutes.
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:09.440
I did.
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:10.320
Very impressive.
00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:24.960
And and I uh we have a we have a belief that although VR has been around for a long time, there's probably an evolution of VR, and there's probably not too far from now where we might drive some VR with AI in terms of cost data and some other things.
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:30.079
I mean, where do you think that fits for the development community, maybe?
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:45.280
Well, from what I saw and what I walked through, um really impressive from that early visioning, being able to understand the scale, being able to physically walk through a project.
00:40:45.840 --> 00:41:03.119
Early in my career, I think we struggled so much with what was, you know, the capabilities of technology because you know, folks would say, I want to see what it's really gonna look like, or I want to see, I want to understand what it's really gonna feel like to walk through this project or to be at this project.
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:06.559
I think you can completely do that now with with what I just experienced.
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:10.639
Um the gaming engines have really transformed what can happen.
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:23.280
There is a an element of complexity still, uh, there is a time factor, uh, but I think those gaps get closed over technology and automation and AI and and and a bunch of things.
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:33.039
I think those things close over time, but uh to use a gaming engine that you know the Mandalorian was created under effectively.
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:39.440
And so you're you're just being able to be, you're being able to trick the mind into to realism.
00:41:39.760 --> 00:42:01.760
I think the other thing too that I would be interested in, maybe bouncing this off some colleagues, is one thing that we typically see in our projects, in our redevelopment projects, is that sometimes leasing velocity is slow at the beginning, not because we're not marketing the property, we're not having those conversations.
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:05.760
It's because the project's not under construction yet.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:10.800
You know, it might be we might be going through the entitlement process, we might be going through the permitting process.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:16.719
We have a great book, we have great renderings, we have a great story, we have the demographics, we have all the things a retailer wants.
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:29.599
But oftentimes what we see is that when we're under construction and we can physically show people and say, Yeah, the project is happening.
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.159
Look, the building's coming out of the ground.
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:36.239
We find that there's a pickup in leasing velocity.
00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:43.679
And so maybe this tool is a way to Do you think you might be able to shortcut them or kind of short circuit them into envisioning the space?
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:44.559
I don't know.
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.880
Or earlier on in the process, that certainly probably could help you guys, right?
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.000
I I don't know.
00:42:50.559 --> 00:43:04.880
But in flying around in it, it gave me that sense of okay, this is what it feels like to walk through the property, and here's the central green space and the art program and the furniture and all those things that did it make you want to go there?
00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:05.760
Yeah, it did.
00:43:05.840 --> 00:43:06.159
Absolutely.
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:06.800
That's cool.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:07.679
Yeah, that's cool.
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:22.880
I I think uh I think we we may be asking too much for it to be a uh quid pro quo for leasing, uh, but I think being able to maybe be that tipping point for oh, so this is what you were thinking.
00:43:23.360 --> 00:43:33.920
And uh, and certainly that customer um has um uh they had a lot to say as a developer about how they wanted to execute.
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:43.360
It is a traditional power lineup with a uh with a large big box and a mini town with a whole bunch of new restaurants for that trade area, and that's they're gonna love it.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:49.519
Uh, but I'm not sure that they've been able to use tools like this to kind of pre sell it.
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:56.480
And I mean I was intrigued, you know, what's what's the value you think of pre sale like that?
00:43:56.719 --> 00:43:58.000
You think there's some value to it?
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:58.719
Absolutely.
00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599
Yeah, absolutely.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:11.440
I mean one of the things we're always trying to solve for or we're always trying to strive for is getting retailers open sooner or quicker or you know, speed to market is a is a big part of what we do.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:18.719
And if there's ways to partner with retailers, get them signed up quicker, get them open quicker.
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.559
I mean it's it's good for everyone, right?
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.320
It it brings community to the project sooner, et cetera.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:32.800
Um yeah, I think if there's ways to do that, uh I'd I'd really be interested in seeing what others think uh about that tool in particular.
00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:34.800
Uh final track.
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:42.480
Um You got 20 years plus or minus in your career right now, a lot of tread left.
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:46.400
You know, what do you what do you envision yourself wanting to be able to do?
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.159
You feel very entrepreneurial.
00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:52.159
And so what do you feel like your legacy you want it to be?
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.320
That's a great question.
00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:56.639
I don't know if I'm thinking that far ahead.
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:00.320
Um, you got a five-year-old, so you got call you got college.
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:01.119
Yeah.
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:01.599
Yeah.
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:17.440
You know, one thing I really enjoy doing, um, Princeton, I keep going back to it, but Princeton is a great example of where it had such a community impact, the redevelopment and revitalization of that kind of historic community center.
00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:24.000
We do a great job over the summer of programming um that property.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:31.760
And we do concerts and we do a beer garden with the concerts, and it's really a place where the community comes out to.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.679
And so every every summer, um, we try to go down.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:38.719
I go down, some other teammates go down.
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:54.079
This past June, you know, my wife, my daughter came, we put a playground in at the property, and so like being able to share that with my family and being able to show them, hey, look what we did here, um, is really rewarding.
00:45:54.320 --> 00:46:01.840
So I'd love to do more of that in some way, shape, or form, whether with Heatens, maybe in the future, potentially on my own.
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:03.119
I, you know, who knows?
00:46:03.440 --> 00:46:09.519
Do you have that desire to maybe at some point, you know, take I think every I think you know, just not control.
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:20.239
We we we describe that word as a bad word, but really um steer something that can be as much a financial reward as a legacy reward?
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:21.360
I would love to.
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:21.679
Yeah.
00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:29.840
I think that's everyone's I think anyone who gets into real estate development, I think they're they're everyone is always thinking about that in the back of their head.
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:37.760
Wow, wouldn't it be great to invest in something in my community or or take what I'm learning and and apply it in my community somehow?
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:40.320
You know, it's all about finding the opportunity.
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.559
Um But I think that's what I want to continue to do.
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:45.360
You know, I'm doing it.
00:46:45.519 --> 00:46:47.519
Well certainly you can do it on the platform that you have.
00:46:48.079 --> 00:46:55.119
So it's you you be able to, and and in fact, I will not be any more of an entrepreneur than I am today.
00:46:55.280 --> 00:47:03.679
Uh, but I've always had the belief, even when I came here in 1999, I had the belief that I wanted to leave it better than I found it.
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:19.119
And I think that really I'm really impressed by that, the the way you carry yourself and the way that that comes out is it's not just a financial transaction to either you or or even to Eden's.
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:25.360
It's a there's a there's a there's a life component to it that this matters to somebody.
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:31.280
This having this thing here matters, and and making it better matters.
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:43.679
And I think too often we get caught up solely in the um, okay, we're gonna knock that down and and build a Chick-fil-A there, or we're gonna do whatever, and we're not and it doesn't matter.
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:45.519
It's just it's just commerce.
00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:45.840
Yeah.
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:50.079
And so I really like uh I really like the way that feels.
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:54.719
And I and I gotta believe that's not just you, that's that's kind of a corporate philosophy.
00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:55.360
100%.
00:47:55.760 --> 00:48:06.320
I was gonna say the team's philosophy is really make it, you know, make it better than the way we found it in enrich community and bring the community together.
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:09.840
And that will help the business, right?
00:48:10.000 --> 00:48:20.159
It's sort of like if if we can lead with that piece, that human element bringing people together, the community element, the business kind of takes care of itself.
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:23.119
Um and we've proven that out over the years.
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:24.880
Uh final question.
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:28.159
Um things change fast.
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:37.119
I think things are changing faster now than they were when I came in twenty-six years ago to this firm.
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:49.679
Um if you look down the road maybe five years, um what are we not talking about today that we probably will be talking about five years from now?
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.679
Is it is it technology?
00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:53.920
Is it is it home delivery?
00:48:54.079 --> 00:48:58.559
Is it what do you think what do you think is gonna emerge here?
00:48:59.039 --> 00:49:00.000
Flying cars?
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:00.880
No, I don't know.
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:02.159
I think those are coming.
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:04.480
Um I think they might already exist, right?
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:23.599
So I there's a term for them, the you know, one person, whatever they're a ton, I don't know what they're called, but um I think one thing we're seeing now that you know may continue to to push and to evolve as you know we invest in community places.
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:35.039
We're seeing a big, I'd say, push and evolution in the service service side of our industry through med spa and wellness is a big trend.
00:49:35.280 --> 00:49:59.199
Um, you know, we're seeing a lot more retailers and in startups, new brands being created to around that concept that want to be located in a you know high-quality Whole Foods, great grocery-anchored place where their consumer is like they want to attract that type of consumer.
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:01.599
So we're seeing a big push there with a lot of that.
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:06.000
I think that will continue to expand and evolve over the next five years.
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:19.280
Um, and the other thing we're seeing a lot of um more now, which actually you're probably you guys are probably more a little bit more of the expert on, is the the e-grocery side of the business.
00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:26.559
You know, I had the pleasure of working with Wegman's grocery stores in my past, still keep in touch with those guys, uh, great guys.
00:50:27.679 --> 00:50:37.920
You know, my relationship over there, we were just catching up months ago, and said we're investing heavily in sort of the online e-grocery space.
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:44.159
And what I thought what I thought was really interesting, he said, it's really not about one specific way.
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:52.400
We just want to provide better service to our customers to get them groceries however they choose to get them.
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:58.639
They don't want to come into the store, we want to make sure it's a frictionless process to get groceries delivered to their home.
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:03.760
Or if they want to come pick them up and have them have us load them in their car, they can do that too.
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.800
Or if they want to come to the store, they can do that too.
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:07.039
Right.
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:14.079
It's about providing the experience however you choose to get your groceries and just providing those opportunities.
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:18.639
I thought that was actually a very profound, like light bulb in my head went off.
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:28.880
Yeah, that whole meet them where they are uh as a customer, I think, you know, is is what we expected in 19 and 20.
00:51:29.039 --> 00:51:44.159
We saw that escalation, and obviously we were kind of uh hunkered down in our homes and and we really thought everything was going to be hybrid or work from home and and that that none of that has really no uh panned out to a large degree.
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:49.280
So I think it's it's it's dampened the spirit of of online.
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:54.800
Uh, but I also think that the the thing to unlock is cold chain.
00:51:54.960 --> 00:52:03.440
I mean, if you can unlock cold chain and keep the stuff from going bad uh from then then I think there's a use case.
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:06.480
Then I think there's a use case to to bring it to your doorstep.
00:52:06.559 --> 00:52:16.079
But I think that has been the the quandary of you get you know milk on your doorstep and you're not there and it's the the clock is ticking.
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:33.679
And so those kinds of things, I know we've had in-garage delivery and we've had um uh boxes or come into your house, or we we we virtually tried everything over five years, but I think that's the I still think that's the big friction point, uh, apart from the fact that a lot of us still like to pick our vegetables.
00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:41.840
Yeah, uh, which is so it's I so meeting them where they are, I think, is probably maybe the most profound place to be.
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:42.880
Ryan, thank you.
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:43.440
Sure.
00:52:43.599 --> 00:52:44.239
Thank you for having me.
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:45.039
Honored to be here.
00:52:45.440 --> 00:52:50.159
Certainly we'll leave it there for today, but wow, uh design and development.
00:52:50.320 --> 00:53:07.840
That is a it is an interesting place, confluence where I think your skill set uh is incredibly useful uh for a customer like or certainly a client like Eden's who wants to create place and wants to be a part of that.
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:08.800
Well, thank you.
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:21.840
So uh everybody, Ryan Lemming, uh Vice President, uh development and construction for Eden's doing work primarily in the state of Florida, but everywhere Eden's does their thing.
00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:24.800
Uh certainly like you to join the Built to Suit podcast.
00:53:24.880 --> 00:53:28.960
It is served where podcasts are serves.
00:53:29.519 --> 00:53:35.039
So check us out there or check us out on the Built to Soup podcast website.
00:53:35.360 --> 00:53:38.800
Until next time, this is Built to Soup.
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:39.760
Built to build.
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:41.119
Let's name it.
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:42.559
Have a great day.