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On this episode of Beyond the Syllabus, Pedagogy and Purpose.
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So the environment may be new, but the skill set that they bring to that environment and the determination and the energy and excitement and passion that they bring, that's theirs to bring, to bring forward into that environment, fueled by this superpower of being first in their families to pursue this as a goal.
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Welcome back to Beyond the Syllabus, Pedagogy and Purpose.
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I'm your host, Dr.
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Tiffany Turner Henderson.
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And we often discuss the technical sides of degrees, the credits, the GPA, the stalls, the cap and gown, pomp and circumstance.
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But for many students, the act of just being on campus is a major journey.
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So how do we help students who are first in their families to navigate this space?
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How can we, as the village, that staff, faculty, uh community, and family support these students in seeing that they're not just getting a degree, but they are reshaping their family's legacy.
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So today I am joined by Dr.
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Dana Patterson, Vice President for Community at Wingate University.
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Um, I should be correcting at Wingate University to discuss the first generation experience.
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So, Dana, thank you for joining me today.
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Well, thank you so much for having me.
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And so before I begin, because I know that I can't do my guests uh a great service by going through all the accolades.
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So this is where I pause and let our guests tell the audience about yourself, your experience, and and what you do in this space.
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Absolutely.
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Um, so I am, um, as you mentioned, the vice president for community at Wingate University.
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And uh part of the responsibility that I have in that regard is um is serving as sort of the coordinator for the flight program, uh, first gen living and growth, um, and hope and transition, which is the the name there.
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But I have been in higher education and have a background in higher education, working various different universities in various settings across the country for more than 30 years.
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Um, so I bring that experience with me.
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Uh, I'm also uh a graduate myself of uh three wonderful universities.
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And uh Berea College is where I did my undergrad, Eastern Kentucky University is where I did my master's, and then Washington State University is where I earned my PhD in higher education administration with an emphasis in cultural studies and social thought in higher ed.
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So um have definitely done a lot and seen a lot, but every time I realize that you know every campus is unique and has its own unique um students and experiences for those students.
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And so I always get excited when I have an opportunity to work with any students in any setting.
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Oh, great, great.
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See, I knew I couldn't capture all of that.
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That's why I give the floor to you.
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So before we even begin, because of course we're gonna have hopefully we have students who are listening.
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Um, we of course have faculty and staff that are listening, and some of our community partners.
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But let's just level set the conversation.
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Like, what is a first generation student?
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Kind of so we have a common definition.
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Of course.
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So that is a great, great question because it is defined differently on different uh along different settings.
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But the way that I use the definition is a student who is the first in there who does not have access to a parent or guardian who graduated from a four-year university in the United States.
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Okay.
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So that is the way that we are or that I define it.
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And so as I talk to students and administrators, then it's a student who does not have access to a parent or guardian who graduated from a four-year university in the United States.
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And then that's gonna come into play with some of the other topics that we'll we'll discuss today about that access to the experience of higher education.
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Um I'm gonna divert a little bit, just a little bit.
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Um, because I like the storytell.
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And so we talk about these students who don't have access to parents who have graduated from a four-year higher education institution.
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So, what what is that initial journey like for them?
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Like if you could give us a fictitious uh student, and what does that look like coming into college, like even beginning the process?
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What are some of those challenges before even getting in the door, stepping on the campus?
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And then what does that first year experience look like uh for a first generation student?
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Um, that is a wonderful question, and um I'm glad that you asked that because uh, you know, one of the things that I wanted to say, first of all, is that, you know, first gen students, just like any other group of students, um, are not a monolith.
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And so their experiences vary.
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And so what they've been exposed to, who they've had access to, um, the stories that they may have heard about college or about higher ed, all those things may vary according to the student.
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But one of the things that is um is pretty accurate across the board when it comes down to first generation college students or those who haven't had access to a parent or guardian is that um sometimes they have to seek that support outside of their home and outside of their immediate family.
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Um, and so information that they may have gained may not be something that they get on a regular basis.
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So, for example, their family that they live with or their nuclear family may not actually know all the questions to help them know what to ask.
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Um and so going into a setting where you're going into a new environment, you know, a lot of times students have to seek resources for themselves.
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Um, they have to do things like apply for scholarships, meet deadlines, um, be able to have access to various resources on campus as well as off campus.
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They are sometimes seeking employment.
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Um, but a lot of these students just have no idea even where to start with that process.
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They don't know what office to go to, they don't know if it's even acceptable to ask certain questions because they have not um kind of grown up, if you will, with those types of conversations happening on a daily basis.
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Um, because there's no one else who maybe has navigated that environment.
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Like, and and so it can be pretty scary.
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I think it can be pretty daunting and maybe even a little bit intimidating for some students that are coming into a totally new environment and they're not really sure who to ask what questions.
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Um, even if they have questions that are swirling in their mind, they're just not really sure who to ask.
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So I think that the first year for um many students coming in, and I just think about over the years, students that I have interacted with, um, it they're they're excited, like most students are coming in.
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Um so they have that same excitement, um, and and they just need the same tools and the same um preparation that all students need as they're coming into a uh higher education environment.
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They need to know that it's gonna be more rigorous than high school, um, and that it's also in some ways gonna be more relaxed because they won't have the same type of scrutiny when it comes down to their schedule.
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A lot of that will be self-directed.
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Um, and so I think that a mix of um, like you, uh like we talk about a little bit um later, I think, but a mix of cultural capital as well as social capital to help them be prepared for an environment.
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So um I don't know.
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I think that students a lot of times do sort of gain that they have this imposter syndrome, like I'm not supposed to be here.
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Um, they are in a place where they look they look around and they believe that everyone else knows more than what they actually know.
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And so it's a fear that they're gonna do something wrong or that they're not supposed to be there in the first place, and somehow that's gonna be discovered, and then something will happen and they're not going to be able to enjoy the opportunity that they've been afforded.
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But one of the things that first gen students and that all students, first year students need to know is that they have earned this opportunity.
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Exactly.
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I think it's really just important for them to understand that they are here because they're supposed to be here and they have everything that they need to be successful.
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They already have it within them.
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And so it's just a matter of helping them to cultivate that and to bring out those skill sets that admissions officers and school counselors and maybe professors and teachers and even parents see in them um in terms of their ability or the drive that they have to be successful in higher ed.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I love that you you kind of touched on that uh imposter uh phenomena or syndrome.
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Um, because I think that might actually might apply to all students and and some adults too, right?
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When they enter places that they really don't have a blueprint to follow.
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But I like you said that you come equipped, like you are like other students, where they're all trying to figure this environment out, and no one has all of the answers, but there's something special in each one of our our scholars when they step on campus, they've earned um that space to be there.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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And and it does, it takes that village, right?
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It it takes everyone that's supporting that student to sometimes repeat to them, you're you're enough, you're here, you'll grow, ask the questions.
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Uh, it kind of goes back to elementary school.
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There are no silly questions, right?
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There are none.
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Now there are none.
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Yeah.
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Exactly.
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Um, oh, go ahead, go ahead.
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Oh, well, I was just thinking, you know, just when when you said that, I I think that it's also important for them to see themselves to celebrate small wins.
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I mean, being accepted to college is really a big deal.
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It is, you know, and deciding to go once you've been accepted, that's another small win.
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And so I think helping students to really celebrate the small wins will will get them to see for themselves that, you know, hey, I have really accomplished a lot.
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Um so that's just one of the things I wanted to bring up.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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I think in some of the conversations I have in uh the classroom, especially when they start talking about their personal brand, or when I challenge them to develop their personal brand, I tell them, look at what you have accomplished in these 18 to 22 years.
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Yes.
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Even within the past four years or three years or two years, look what you have accomplished compared to who you were in high school or if you were coming through uh the community college route.
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Look at where you are and what you've accomplished.
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And I think sometimes they're even amazed, and like I like that, embracing the small wins because when they look at it, it's it's a big win.
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The little chunks that have happened along the way.
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I I like that.
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I uh look at the small wins.
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And it really is a it's a big victory uh for the students.
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Um, so I I think this actually kind of answers where I was going with the the next portion with like, you know, how do we shift the the campus narrative to just you know being some some students say I'm just a first gen, so you know how can they overcome that and see it as their their unique value proposition when it comes to opportunities in college.
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But I think you kind of you you jumped on that and said it's the small wins.
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Look at what you've overcome.
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Let's talk about this this growth period.
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And um specifically in this conversation, we're talking about first gen, but it kind of applies to the broader student body.
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But yes, they're growing in their independence, right?
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Um, because now they're making their own decisions for the most part, right?
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Um but they still need a support system.
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And so for I said for first generation, but I think it's for all students as well.
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Like their family are their biggest cheerleaders, and there's some instances where their families are not their cheerleaders.
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Um so they may not know how to navigate the nuances as they continue on after first, even after first year, how they navigate the university setting.
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Um and you touched on this early about this thing of social capital, right?
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What are the what is that those little nuggets of knowledge that they've received to help them persist in higher education and how to tackle challenges and how you know when and how to ask the questions and it's okay.
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Um, so do you think that the that lack of of that college type of social capital creates kind of this gap um in this first generation segment of students?
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And then what do we as universities, as faculty and staff do to help fill that social capital gap?
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Yeah, so I do think that um having a lack of the capital that is really uh valuable and in higher education setting, um, a lot of times when students come into that environment, they don't know what's important to know.
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Um, they're not aware of the types of information and the types of experiences that they should pull forward in order to be seen as legitimate knowledge and that a lot of times their experiences, they discount them because they feel like maybe that didn't happen in an educational setting.
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But knowing that higher education values all types of life experiences as well, and they see that as in real lived experiences and overcoming things, obstacles or barriers in real life, that equates to knowledge and understanding and growth.
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Um, so a lot of times being able to find that within themselves.
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And I think that universities have that responsibility to really help students look within and to, like I said, look back at their life and see how have you grown, even if it hasn't necessarily been in an academic setting.
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What areas of your life have you, you know, where did you start?
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And then how have you come from one point of development and understanding to a new point of development and understanding?
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And all of that adds up to um creating a sense of uh of self-confidence and really building their self-efficacy and a sense of agency as they get into this new environment.
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Um, so the environment may be new, but the skill set that they bring to that environment and the determination and the energy and excitement and passion that they bring, that's theirs to bring, to bring forward into that environment.
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And for a lot of those students, just understanding that that is what um was seen in them, and that's what made them such a wonderful candidate for higher education in the first place.
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So it's not necessarily what they know, but it's about their capacity for um for growth and for understanding and for learning.
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Um, because those of us in higher ed, you know, we kind of know that this is a lifelong learning process.
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And um, higher ed, especially undergrad, really just teaches us how to learn and how to find information.
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Um, not necessarily do we retain or use all the information that we have that we learn in that in our uh undergraduate experiences, but it's kind of the baseline that says, this is how you learn.
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This is how you get from one point to the next.
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And I think for a lot of our first-year students, just really, and first gen students especially, um, coming in, understanding that um there may be a gap, uh, but they can quickly, quickly fill that gap with their own inquisitiveness and with their own passion for learning and understanding.
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And many of those students go on to excel beyond some students that have had it to um parents and grandparents and that, you know, maybe first, second, third generations in their families.
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Um but many, many first year, first gen students actually excel beyond that because they're they are sort of fueled by this superpower of being first in their families to pursue this as a um as a goal.
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I like that.
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Um and I like that that reflection, right?
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So I'm gonna pause for a a second and we're gonna kind of come back to this.
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So can you share a little bit about like what we do at at Wingate to help students to reflect on the those transferable skills and and lived experiences that are vital to that learning process and it brings something to the table that some others can't bring.
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Can you talk about like what we do?
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Sure.
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So um, like I mentioned earlier, uh I get to help coordinate and direct the flight program, which is a first-gen mentoring program, uh, first gen living and growth and hope and transition.
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Is and the students sort of came up with that name because it was just uh first gen bulldogs at one point, but uh now they wanted to actually have a name that captured the intensity of the program.
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And it is right now uh primarily just for first year students or transfer students uh that are coming into the university, and it provides for them a community of other students who understand what it means to be first generation or what it means to be first in their family to accomplish some wonderful goal.
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Um, and uh it doesn't mean that our mentors are all first are all first gen, but they just have to express and they have to demonstrate an understanding of what it means to be first.
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And so we talk in our training with them about maybe other, if they're not first gen, maybe maybe other environments where they have been the first or the only, and to sort of help them channel what that the empathy that's needed to really support a student for an entire year of their journey and while they're also a student.
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So it is a living learning community where um students live together.
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Many of them take their uh uh One Dog 101 class together, um, and that's sort of direct it towards first gen.
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But when they come in, we spend a week before classes even start in a bridge program where they move in early.
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They have an opportunity to really build community, which is one of the most important aspects of social capital in higher education, is having a community and other people that can help encourage you when times are rough or when things get difficult and they will get difficult.
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Um, but having a group of people that you and peers especially that you can lean on, that you can go to, that you can um have that more um that you have more access to, um, even though students don't really understand that they do have that same access to faculty and to staff and administrators.
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Um, sometimes just sort of that bite-sized piece having another student that says it's okay to go ask your professor this, or I ask my professor that, or I've had this conversation, or I've even had this professor.
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So you might want to, you know, take this professor that I've had for a particular course, because that's the kind of information that students share with one another.
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But when they when they come in and they don't, they haven't built a community, then um sometimes they don't know who to ask those types of questions to.
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So um we set them up with a a built-in community that already cares about them, that already understands their experience, at least conceptually, if not um, you know, um actually having experience it themselves, then and we uh guide them through that first year.
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So they get that bridge week where we spend a lot of time building community.
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But then beyond that, they have a mentor that they meet with um weekly, and then we do enrichment activities or enlightenment activities that help throughout the year.
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So every month we have an event where we invite not just the first gen students that are in our program, but all first gen students.
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And really, all students are invited to come to our little monthly events that we have.
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Um, and some of those they range from things like a paint and sip night to something like maybe um discussions about registration and about the process for registration, which can be uh kind of daunting and challenging if you haven't gone through that process before.
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Um but they do it together as a group.
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They get in one room and so it dispels some of the mystery and some of the fear around actually going through that process because everybody's there asking their questions and they laugh about it, and um, they really just become a community.
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And so uh now as we're coming to the end of the school year, one of the things we're looking forward to is our end of the year event.
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And so this year we're gonna uh actually have some superlatives and we're gonna um do a pool party and get students together and um have a great meal um and actually just spend some time having them reflect on a year that many of them didn't know that they were gonna make it through.
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Um but it but really having them to celebrate the success and the idea that they are still here and look at them succeeding and all of that stuff.
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So um I love it, I love it to uh bring them together after going through that year and having them to really reflect on their own success.
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I know that I've I've seen some students, I think they they have they have a swag bag, I think, if I'm not mistaken.
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I've seen a couple of students and they were walking along and they had uh it might have been under the the the former name, but they had their their swag bags and walking together.
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But it it you you see them really forming that bond and those those friendships and relationships.
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And I've had a couple of students who have gone through the program and then they turned around and they became mentors and continue to be to be mentors to the next generation, which is beautiful because it does build that community and it does bridge that gap.
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And I'm I uh from me as a faculty advisor to you and your program, thank you for the registration sessions.
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That is usually one of those those those areas where for a student, I think for all students, but also for first generation, yeah, they can it if they've had others that have gone through uh a four-year uh education program, they can ask their family members about that whole registration and your program and the catalog and selecting your classes and meeting with your advisor.
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But for those who do not have that resource at home or in the community, it really is a very daunting task to sit down and say, I this is determining my future.
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Am I taking the right classes?
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:47.920
I only have a certain number of years to get through this program or funding, you know, in some cases.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:53.759
So thank you for including that in in the program because it is it's vital.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.000
It's vital for for actually for all students, but it's very vital.
00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:58.640
Very vital.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:25:59.759
All right.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:01.839
So um, oh go ahead, go ahead.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:02.240
No, go ahead.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:12.160
Well, I was gonna just mention and and back up to that, you know, a lot of times the topics that we discuss are um they're driven by the students' own experiences.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.279
And so um it's not like we might sit down and say, well, students need to know this, this, and that.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:31.519
When we start with Bridge Week and when we talk about the activities that they plan for the monthly events, we ask the mentors who many of them have also been through this experience, what what information is important?
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:34.720
What's gonna be important for students to know?
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:51.039
And what are at this point in the semester, are they gonna feel like having something heavy, like a knowledge session, a study session, or are they gonna need something that's more relaxing and something where they can really relax and um regroup?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.160
Uh what's gonna be important for them in this moment?
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:11.440
And I think paying attention, and so it's really student-driven a lot of what happens in the flight program is really uh driven by those students' knowledge, and and we value that knowledge and their way of knowing that comes from just the experiences that they've had.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:13.920
So I just wanted to add that as well too.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:20.160
That, you know, it's not like I come up with that whole curriculum, even though I appreciate your appreciation of us.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:30.880
Um, but the students themselves really help come up with the highlights and those parts of our program which we're gonna, which we're going to make important.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:35.599
And also, you know, those are mandatory for the students to participate in.
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:38.480
But sometimes we have to have mandatory fun.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.720
So we do both, we do all of those things.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.200
I like that man mandatory fun.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:46.240
I like that.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:54.400
So I uh sending appreciation to to the mentors and the students for their programming ideas because it does, it it helps them.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:11.519
Um so let's talk about for maybe a a second about shifting from the actual academic arena and let's think about what purpose means for this segment of the student body.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:20.079
And and in this college process, we're always saying, yes, you need to take these classes, you need to fill these degree uh requirements.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:27.359
But then we kind of shift, especially as they start getting towards the end of their program, about their purpose, right?
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:43.839
Their not necessarily calling, but we'll stick with purpose, their their purpose and what it is they need to do and what drives you, what motivates you, and and how we turn that into seeking that next career opportunity or the next educational level.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:54.559
So what do we do with with students, um, uh especially from this group where they're finding this uh larger purpose, right?
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:59.039
And how does it how does their family weave into this purpose?
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:11.759
You talked a little bit about it earlier, but how does family and and their background or lived experiences weave into this larger purpose that is academics, family, career, community?
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:45.279
Yeah, so I I think that um for many of the students that are that are coming in as well, um I think finding what they enjoy and what they're good at and what they're passionate about, and having an opportunity to experience maybe many various different careers or be exposed to various different opportunities and careers, and even talking to some of the mentors about the paths that they have taken.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.480
And so sometimes they may have had access to very few sort of career trajectories in the past.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:30:15.759
Maybe they've only seen a few different um career paths, and so they don't really understand that there's a plethora of things, and sometimes even understanding the things that they just enjoy doing, like music or or literature or writing or poetry, that those things can actually translate to a career path if that's what they're passionate about.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:36.079
Um, and so I think a big part of it is is uh really helping those students to see what it is that they are really good at and what it is that they have um been able to do in their lifetime that they could see themselves doing for a career, for a lifetime.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:46.160
That it it um it's not just about finding a job, but for many of them, they want to be um successful on their own terms.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:53.440
And um I think that purpose is really important as they want to help their families.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:58.079
And I think that's true for probably uh not just first gen students, but any student.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:06.240
They want to be seen as a benefit and an asset to their families, whether it be their immediate families or their future families.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.720
They want to know how can how am I going to contribute best to my family?
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:21.680
And I and part of what we try to build up in them is that you contribute best to your family by being successful and happy and healthy as an individual yourself.
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:28.880
And that's for most of us as parents that have had children that have gone through college, that's what we want for them.
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.319
So we don't know.
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:39.920
Yeah, it's not like we want them to go out there and get, you know, of course it'd be lovely if they're all doctors and lawyers and you know, they have these wonderful salaries.
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:41.920
That would be great for some people.
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:54.480
But I think as uh most parents and most uh even people that work in higher ed would say that we want that student to be fine success on their own terms.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:56.799
Does that make sense?
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.880
It does, it does, it does.
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.400
Uh and in that in that boat now, so yes, I can relate.
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:09.039
I'm gonna I'm it it's stuck in the back of my mind, so we're gonna come back to it.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:09.599
Okay.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:24.240
So we've talked about academics, social capital, um, this growth process, but you talked about uh it wasn't I I lost the phrase, required fund, uh mandatory fund.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.039
There it is, mandatory mandatory fund.
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:40.559
How can we create that that peaceful, restful, recentering type of environment for I'll say students in general.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:33:01.599
Um, sometimes our our our students are juggling not only the workload, um trying to find this purpose and trying to be involved in things on campus, they're taking care of family members, and sometimes they have jobs, sometimes full-time jobs.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:21.440
So what advice would you give for, you know, how can how what advice would you give for for students, but then how can we as a university committee um or community or or village help with finding that balance and and giving some some rest and and rejuvenation to to students?
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.400
I love that question.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:32.079
Um and I think for many students, they are just looking for empathy in our eyes.
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:42.000
They want to know that um it's a safe place in terms of someone who is going to at least make an effort to understand them.
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:54.319
Um and I think also for us to see every to view every interaction with every student as a moment to have a transformational moment with that student.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:55.920
I like that.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:56.319
Okay.
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:57.519
Okay.
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:05.920
And it may be that we say something, that we do something, that we don't say something, or that we don't do something.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:30.639
Um, but whatever it is that moment calls from, that even every single interaction that we have with a student has the possibility and the power to transform their thoughts about higher ed, about us as an administrator or as a professor or as a person who's seen who the student might view as successful or having holding some sense of power or prestige.
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:38.159
Um, every interaction that we have with the student has that power to be transformational and make a difference in their lives.
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:50.480
And so I think if we looked at every moment that we speak to a student, that we interact with them and we don't take it for granted, um, and that we see that this has a possibility to change lives.
00:34:50.639 --> 00:35:03.199
Just what I say in this moment and what I do in this moment, I think it would create a sense of safety and a sense of um of like and just in that empathy, right?
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:11.679
And I think in that community and that that really goes on to again continue to build community because that lets that student know that they are part.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.519
There's no us and them.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:16.960
Um, you know, you and I, there's there's us.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:20.800
Um, so there's there's all of us, and we're in it together.
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:24.079
And I think that's what students need to know.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:26.480
It's that village.
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.280
I I keep coming back because that's kind of like part of my philosophy.
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.840
It takes a village, it really does.
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:32.800
I like that.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.239
That is that is the gym right there.
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:43.360
That's gonna be one of the highlights to to kind of get us into this uh session once it's what's all said and done.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.519
Okay, so we're gonna do a little wrap-up now, believe it or not.
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:51.280
Um, and let's talk about some immediate actions.
00:35:51.760 --> 00:36:02.639
And actually, you you've given us a lot, but some immediate actions that we can provide um the audience, whether they're students or parents or um educators, the village, right?
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.400
Um, that they can tangibly use today, right?
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:22.480
Um, so if you could give three immediate immediate actionable items to a first generation student or a mentor helping them to find their footing in higher education, what would it be?
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:37.519
Um, I think one of the things that I would tell uh a first gen student or or a mentor is that um that it's okay to make mistakes, that mistakes are okay.
00:36:37.679 --> 00:37:01.440
We all make them, and that um colleges are full of people, whether it be professors or mentors or administrators of people who have made big mistakes, but it's about what you do after that, after you make that mistake, that is the difference between your success and um and and and maybe those who have been less successful.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:10.239
Um, I think also understanding uh uh that going back to that first line, that they are there because they are supposed to be there.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:20.960
Um and to anytime they may feel a sense that they're not supposed to be in that environment, or anytime imposter syndrome tries to creep in.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:32.639
I think just understanding that they've earned their place there in higher education and they are there, they were chosen to be there, and it's not by mistake, it's not by happenstance.
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:51.440
Um, their application didn't just fall off the desk and land in the admit pile, um, that it was a actually a rigorous process and that they are there because they they have earned um all and and they've you know accomplished everything that it takes to be a college student.
00:37:51.760 --> 00:38:02.480
And and I think the other thing that I would tell them is to um, you know, that that building community is just like building a home.
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.760
It's one step at a time, it's one piece at a time.
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:17.760
So um when you start to build that community, you know, you start with people that are uh maybe have had similar experiences to you or what you have experienced in life.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:47.920
But the the wonderful thing about being in a college environment is that it's so diverse and that there are so many people with so many different experiences, and that as you become more comfortable in in your own experiences and what you bring to the table, then it allows you to really be comfortable in sort of understanding and hearing and seeing what others and who they are and what they bring to the table and what and and really accepting others for who they are and the experience that they've had.
00:38:48.239 --> 00:39:10.960
So not to be afraid of their own experiences, but also not to be exp afraid of others, uh the diversity that they may find on college campuses, because that too is also a part of their growth and development and what will help them be successful as they navigate various different environments beyond college and even during college.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:15.679
So um, I mean, those are things that I think I would share with them right away.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.519
Yes, yes.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.679
Okay, another question for you.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:31.119
Okay, what is one truth that you want a first gen student to remember when they feel overwhelmed by the pressure of being the first?
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:44.320
Um, so uh it's one thing that I my grandfather used to say, and he's a minister, uh a Christian minister in the South, and he would say, you know, this too shall pass.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:54.000
And a lot of times when we're in the midst of something that feels really heavy, it's hard to believe that we're going to get through this.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:40:03.840
It's hard to believe that it's gonna be at some point it won't feel like this, and this will get lighter and this will get easier and heavy, and then this won't feel so heavy.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:13.840
And so I think to just say to those students that this too will pass, um, this is something, it's a part of the process, but it's not the whole process.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.079
Everything in higher ed is not hard.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:22.880
It's not, you know, you're not gonna be drudging through mud for the in the totality of your experience.
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:35.519
Um, the more you stick to it, then the more it will become um you will become more accustomed to it and you will actually find yourself that it gets easier for you.
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:45.760
Um, but sticking to it is a, you know, that's a really big piece for students to understand that the persistence that's necessary to be successful.
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:51.360
Um, and so I would tell them persistence is necessary and that this too shall pass.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:52.400
I like that.
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:53.360
I like that.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:41:12.000
Now, what can we as staff and faculty do to embrace and make our classrooms, our programming, our activities uh very inclusive for this segment of our student population?
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:19.519
What can we do as an immediate action, whether it's you know a lecture, activity, what have you, what can we do?
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:35.199
Well, I would say um I think in the name of equity to understand that all students don't come equipped with the same uh experiences and they don't come equally prepared for college environments.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:42:35.679
And so I think that as we um engage students, whether it's inside the classroom or outside the classroom or on like the first gen cultural trip that I take students on when I take them um away so that they get to be exposed to some environment beyond the classroom, whatever, wherever you meet them, just be willing to meet students where they are and not to make assumptions about where they are, because um a lot of times that's what makes people feel um feel really like they're left out, because when a teacher or a someone who's in charge or has authority paints a picture and they don't see, they can't see themselves in that picture, then that can, you know, it can really cause a lot of um distress for an individual to say, well, they just described something that is college-worthy and that and I don't see myself in that.
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.440
I wasn't a part of that picture.
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:40.079
So obviously I don't belong here.
00:42:40.400 --> 00:43:14.480
And so if we want to create a sense of belonging and we want people to feel like they're really a part of an environment, don't just invite them to the party, but you know, ask them to dance and ask them what kind of music they want to listen to and ask them where they came from and what kind of music do they listen to, and share that with us and invite everyone to share their own experiences so that it helps to again contribute to a community that's more fulfilling and that's more um inclusive for everyone.
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:36.960
Um, so everyone's stories matter, but to definitely not to make assumptions uh based on identity or affinity in terms of where students are, but be willing to engage them in the process of understanding um how it is uh that they have come to be where they are and where they're going.
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:38.960
I love that.
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:40.159
I love that.
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:41.519
All right.
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:46.320
So I couldn't be a marketing professor if I didn't ask.
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:51.360
If we want to continue the conversation with you, where can we find you?
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:56.000
Can we find you on LinkedIn, email, Instagram?
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.760
I am, I am on, I have an Instagram.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.360
I don't really know how to use all of those things just away.
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:12.480
So I know I might need to spend some time in some of your marketing classes learning how to better utilize some of my uh socials.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:20.239
But uh definitely you can follow First Gen in the flight program on Instagram, uh Wingate First Gen.
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.159
Um, and you can also um come and meet us.
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:30.000
We're down at the community house uh where the co-op is located as well.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:37.679
So um my office is upstairs in the community house, and um my student workers are there.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.119
I have a graduate assistant that works with me there as well.
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:48.400
And um, you can also just look me up on campus, and it's Dana.patterson at wingate.edu.
00:44:48.800 --> 00:45:06.000
So I would love, love, love to hear questions, to have inner exchange and to have conversation with individuals who are either first gen themselves or thinking about how they can help support first generation college students at Wingate and beyond.
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:10.559
Um, because it, like you said and very well said, it takes a village.
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:11.920
All right.
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:13.199
So, Dr.
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:18.239
Dana Patterson, vice president of community at Wingate University.
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:27.519
Thank you so much for joining this collective conversation on Beyond the Syllabus, pedagogy and purpose.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:28.880
Thank you.
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:36.559
This brings us to the end of today's episode of Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose.
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:38.000
Thank you for listening.
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:43.679
Until next time, keep learning, reflecting, and growing beyond the syllabus.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.879
On this episode of Beyond the Syllabus, Pedagogy and Purpose.
00:00:05.519 --> 00:00:31.760
So the environment may be new, but the skill set that they bring to that environment and the determination and the energy and excitement and passion that they bring, that's theirs to bring, to bring forward into that environment, fueled by this superpower of being first in their families to pursue this as a goal.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:37.520
Welcome back to Beyond the Syllabus, Pedagogy and Purpose.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:38.719
I'm your host, Dr.
00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.320
Tiffany Turner Henderson.
00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:51.759
And we often discuss the technical sides of degrees, the credits, the GPA, the stalls, the cap and gown, pomp and circumstance.
00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:59.840
But for many students, the act of just being on campus is a major journey.
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:05.599
So how do we help students who are first in their families to navigate this space?
00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:21.599
How can we, as the village, that staff, faculty, uh community, and family support these students in seeing that they're not just getting a degree, but they are reshaping their family's legacy.
00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.239
So today I am joined by Dr.
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:29.200
Dana Patterson, Vice President for Community at Wingate University.
00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:37.040
Um, I should be correcting at Wingate University to discuss the first generation experience.
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:40.000
So, Dana, thank you for joining me today.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:42.719
Well, thank you so much for having me.
00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:51.599
And so before I begin, because I know that I can't do my guests uh a great service by going through all the accolades.
00:01:51.760 --> 00:02:00.959
So this is where I pause and let our guests tell the audience about yourself, your experience, and and what you do in this space.
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:02.799
Absolutely.
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:09.759
Um, so I am, um, as you mentioned, the vice president for community at Wingate University.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:27.759
And uh part of the responsibility that I have in that regard is um is serving as sort of the coordinator for the flight program, uh, first gen living and growth, um, and hope and transition, which is the the name there.
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:38.479
But I have been in higher education and have a background in higher education, working various different universities in various settings across the country for more than 30 years.
00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.599
Um, so I bring that experience with me.
00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:48.240
Uh, I'm also uh a graduate myself of uh three wonderful universities.
00:02:48.479 --> 00:03:05.199
And uh Berea College is where I did my undergrad, Eastern Kentucky University is where I did my master's, and then Washington State University is where I earned my PhD in higher education administration with an emphasis in cultural studies and social thought in higher ed.
00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:22.080
So um have definitely done a lot and seen a lot, but every time I realize that you know every campus is unique and has its own unique um students and experiences for those students.
00:03:22.159 --> 00:03:28.080
And so I always get excited when I have an opportunity to work with any students in any setting.
00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:29.280
Oh, great, great.
00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:31.280
See, I knew I couldn't capture all of that.
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.680
That's why I give the floor to you.
00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:40.319
So before we even begin, because of course we're gonna have hopefully we have students who are listening.
00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:45.039
Um, we of course have faculty and staff that are listening, and some of our community partners.
00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:48.639
But let's just level set the conversation.
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:53.439
Like, what is a first generation student?
00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:56.000
Kind of so we have a common definition.
00:03:56.479 --> 00:03:57.120
Of course.
00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:04.960
So that is a great, great question because it is defined differently on different uh along different settings.
00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:20.399
But the way that I use the definition is a student who is the first in there who does not have access to a parent or guardian who graduated from a four-year university in the United States.
00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:21.040
Okay.
00:04:22.000 --> 00:04:25.360
So that is the way that we are or that I define it.
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:37.680
And so as I talk to students and administrators, then it's a student who does not have access to a parent or guardian who graduated from a four-year university in the United States.
00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:47.439
And then that's gonna come into play with some of the other topics that we'll we'll discuss today about that access to the experience of higher education.
00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:51.120
Um I'm gonna divert a little bit, just a little bit.
00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:52.720
Um, because I like the storytell.
00:04:53.600 --> 00:05:03.040
And so we talk about these students who don't have access to parents who have graduated from a four-year higher education institution.
00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:06.879
So, what what is that initial journey like for them?
00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:16.000
Like if you could give us a fictitious uh student, and what does that look like coming into college, like even beginning the process?
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:22.240
What are some of those challenges before even getting in the door, stepping on the campus?
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:28.160
And then what does that first year experience look like uh for a first generation student?
00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:44.959
Um, that is a wonderful question, and um I'm glad that you asked that because uh, you know, one of the things that I wanted to say, first of all, is that, you know, first gen students, just like any other group of students, um, are not a monolith.
00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.000
And so their experiences vary.
00:05:48.079 --> 00:06:01.600
And so what they've been exposed to, who they've had access to, um, the stories that they may have heard about college or about higher ed, all those things may vary according to the student.
00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:23.839
But one of the things that is um is pretty accurate across the board when it comes down to first generation college students or those who haven't had access to a parent or guardian is that um sometimes they have to seek that support outside of their home and outside of their immediate family.
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:30.480
Um, and so information that they may have gained may not be something that they get on a regular basis.
00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:42.720
So, for example, their family that they live with or their nuclear family may not actually know all the questions to help them know what to ask.
00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:52.319
Um and so going into a setting where you're going into a new environment, you know, a lot of times students have to seek resources for themselves.
00:06:52.480 --> 00:07:04.639
Um, they have to do things like apply for scholarships, meet deadlines, um, be able to have access to various resources on campus as well as off campus.
00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:07.519
They are sometimes seeking employment.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:13.839
Um, but a lot of these students just have no idea even where to start with that process.
00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:30.319
They don't know what office to go to, they don't know if it's even acceptable to ask certain questions because they have not um kind of grown up, if you will, with those types of conversations happening on a daily basis.
00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.160
Um, because there's no one else who maybe has navigated that environment.
00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:37.519
Like, and and so it can be pretty scary.
00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:50.639
I think it can be pretty daunting and maybe even a little bit intimidating for some students that are coming into a totally new environment and they're not really sure who to ask what questions.
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:56.800
Um, even if they have questions that are swirling in their mind, they're just not really sure who to ask.
00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:13.120
So I think that the first year for um many students coming in, and I just think about over the years, students that I have interacted with, um, it they're they're excited, like most students are coming in.
00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:28.079
Um so they have that same excitement, um, and and they just need the same tools and the same um preparation that all students need as they're coming into a uh higher education environment.
00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:41.519
They need to know that it's gonna be more rigorous than high school, um, and that it's also in some ways gonna be more relaxed because they won't have the same type of scrutiny when it comes down to their schedule.
00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:44.240
A lot of that will be self-directed.
00:08:44.480 --> 00:09:00.159
Um, and so I think that a mix of um, like you, uh like we talk about a little bit um later, I think, but a mix of cultural capital as well as social capital to help them be prepared for an environment.
00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:02.399
So um I don't know.
00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:10.399
I think that students a lot of times do sort of gain that they have this imposter syndrome, like I'm not supposed to be here.
00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:19.279
Um, they are in a place where they look they look around and they believe that everyone else knows more than what they actually know.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:34.159
And so it's a fear that they're gonna do something wrong or that they're not supposed to be there in the first place, and somehow that's gonna be discovered, and then something will happen and they're not going to be able to enjoy the opportunity that they've been afforded.
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:42.080
But one of the things that first gen students and that all students, first year students need to know is that they have earned this opportunity.
00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:43.600
Exactly.
00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:53.279
I think it's really just important for them to understand that they are here because they're supposed to be here and they have everything that they need to be successful.
00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:56.559
They already have it within them.
00:09:56.799 --> 00:10:17.519
And so it's just a matter of helping them to cultivate that and to bring out those skill sets that admissions officers and school counselors and maybe professors and teachers and even parents see in them um in terms of their ability or the drive that they have to be successful in higher ed.
00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.320
Mm-hmm.
00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:23.279
And I love that you you kind of touched on that uh imposter uh phenomena or syndrome.
00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:28.559
Um, because I think that might actually might apply to all students and and some adults too, right?
00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:35.360
When they enter places that they really don't have a blueprint to follow.
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:57.360
But I like you said that you come equipped, like you are like other students, where they're all trying to figure this environment out, and no one has all of the answers, but there's something special in each one of our our scholars when they step on campus, they've earned um that space to be there.
00:10:57.519 --> 00:10:58.080
I love that.
00:10:58.159 --> 00:10:58.559
I love that.
00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:00.720
And and it does, it takes that village, right?
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:11.120
It it takes everyone that's supporting that student to sometimes repeat to them, you're you're enough, you're here, you'll grow, ask the questions.
00:11:11.279 --> 00:11:13.039
Uh, it kind of goes back to elementary school.
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:15.279
There are no silly questions, right?
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:16.240
There are none.
00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:17.440
Now there are none.
00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:18.000
Yeah.
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:19.200
Exactly.
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:20.639
Um, oh, go ahead, go ahead.
00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:30.000
Oh, well, I was just thinking, you know, just when when you said that, I I think that it's also important for them to see themselves to celebrate small wins.
00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:33.519
I mean, being accepted to college is really a big deal.
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:39.919
It is, you know, and deciding to go once you've been accepted, that's another small win.
00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:51.279
And so I think helping students to really celebrate the small wins will will get them to see for themselves that, you know, hey, I have really accomplished a lot.
00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:55.039
Um so that's just one of the things I wanted to bring up.
00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:55.919
I love that.
00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:56.480
I love that.
00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:12.799
I think in some of the conversations I have in uh the classroom, especially when they start talking about their personal brand, or when I challenge them to develop their personal brand, I tell them, look at what you have accomplished in these 18 to 22 years.
00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:13.360
Yes.
00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:25.200
Even within the past four years or three years or two years, look what you have accomplished compared to who you were in high school or if you were coming through uh the community college route.
00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:27.200
Look at where you are and what you've accomplished.
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:35.440
And I think sometimes they're even amazed, and like I like that, embracing the small wins because when they look at it, it's it's a big win.
00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:38.159
The little chunks that have happened along the way.
00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:39.120
I I like that.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:40.960
I uh look at the small wins.
00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:44.879
And it really is a it's a big victory uh for the students.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:13:08.240
Um, so I I think this actually kind of answers where I was going with the the next portion with like, you know, how do we shift the the campus narrative to just you know being some some students say I'm just a first gen, so you know how can they overcome that and see it as their their unique value proposition when it comes to opportunities in college.
00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:12.080
But I think you kind of you you jumped on that and said it's the small wins.
00:13:12.159 --> 00:13:13.279
Look at what you've overcome.
00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.480
Let's talk about this this growth period.
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:25.200
And um specifically in this conversation, we're talking about first gen, but it kind of applies to the broader student body.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:29.840
But yes, they're growing in their independence, right?
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:35.120
Um, because now they're making their own decisions for the most part, right?
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:40.000
Um but they still need a support system.
00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:46.080
And so for I said for first generation, but I think it's for all students as well.
00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:53.519
Like their family are their biggest cheerleaders, and there's some instances where their families are not their cheerleaders.
00:13:53.759 --> 00:14:03.600
Um so they may not know how to navigate the nuances as they continue on after first, even after first year, how they navigate the university setting.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:08.159
Um and you touched on this early about this thing of social capital, right?
00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:24.639
What are the what is that those little nuggets of knowledge that they've received to help them persist in higher education and how to tackle challenges and how you know when and how to ask the questions and it's okay.
00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:37.120
Um, so do you think that the that lack of of that college type of social capital creates kind of this gap um in this first generation segment of students?
00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:44.639
And then what do we as universities, as faculty and staff do to help fill that social capital gap?
00:14:45.600 --> 00:15:02.960
Yeah, so I do think that um having a lack of the capital that is really uh valuable and in higher education setting, um, a lot of times when students come into that environment, they don't know what's important to know.
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:22.879
Um, they're not aware of the types of information and the types of experiences that they should pull forward in order to be seen as legitimate knowledge and that a lot of times their experiences, they discount them because they feel like maybe that didn't happen in an educational setting.
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:42.960
But knowing that higher education values all types of life experiences as well, and they see that as in real lived experiences and overcoming things, obstacles or barriers in real life, that equates to knowledge and understanding and growth.
00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:48.320
Um, so a lot of times being able to find that within themselves.
00:15:48.399 --> 00:16:02.960
And I think that universities have that responsibility to really help students look within and to, like I said, look back at their life and see how have you grown, even if it hasn't necessarily been in an academic setting.
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.720
What areas of your life have you, you know, where did you start?
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:14.480
And then how have you come from one point of development and understanding to a new point of development and understanding?
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:29.200
And all of that adds up to um creating a sense of uh of self-confidence and really building their self-efficacy and a sense of agency as they get into this new environment.
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:46.320
Um, so the environment may be new, but the skill set that they bring to that environment and the determination and the energy and excitement and passion that they bring, that's theirs to bring, to bring forward into that environment.
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:57.679
And for a lot of those students, just understanding that that is what um was seen in them, and that's what made them such a wonderful candidate for higher education in the first place.
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:06.720
So it's not necessarily what they know, but it's about their capacity for um for growth and for understanding and for learning.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:12.160
Um, because those of us in higher ed, you know, we kind of know that this is a lifelong learning process.
00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:19.279
And um, higher ed, especially undergrad, really just teaches us how to learn and how to find information.
00:17:19.519 --> 00:17:32.720
Um, not necessarily do we retain or use all the information that we have that we learn in that in our uh undergraduate experiences, but it's kind of the baseline that says, this is how you learn.
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.240
This is how you get from one point to the next.
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:56.720
And I think for a lot of our first-year students, just really, and first gen students especially, um, coming in, understanding that um there may be a gap, uh, but they can quickly, quickly fill that gap with their own inquisitiveness and with their own passion for learning and understanding.
00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:09.759
And many of those students go on to excel beyond some students that have had it to um parents and grandparents and that, you know, maybe first, second, third generations in their families.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:26.720
Um but many, many first year, first gen students actually excel beyond that because they're they are sort of fueled by this superpower of being first in their families to pursue this as a um as a goal.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:28.559
I like that.
00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:32.240
Um and I like that that reflection, right?
00:18:32.480 --> 00:18:38.319
So I'm gonna pause for a a second and we're gonna kind of come back to this.
00:18:38.559 --> 00:19:00.000
So can you share a little bit about like what we do at at Wingate to help students to reflect on the those transferable skills and and lived experiences that are vital to that learning process and it brings something to the table that some others can't bring.
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.160
Can you talk about like what we do?
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:03.279
Sure.
00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:17.200
So um, like I mentioned earlier, uh I get to help coordinate and direct the flight program, which is a first-gen mentoring program, uh, first gen living and growth and hope and transition.
00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:30.240
Is and the students sort of came up with that name because it was just uh first gen bulldogs at one point, but uh now they wanted to actually have a name that captured the intensity of the program.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:51.599
And it is right now uh primarily just for first year students or transfer students uh that are coming into the university, and it provides for them a community of other students who understand what it means to be first generation or what it means to be first in their family to accomplish some wonderful goal.
00:19:51.839 --> 00:20:04.799
Um, and uh it doesn't mean that our mentors are all first are all first gen, but they just have to express and they have to demonstrate an understanding of what it means to be first.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:28.319
And so we talk in our training with them about maybe other, if they're not first gen, maybe maybe other environments where they have been the first or the only, and to sort of help them channel what that the empathy that's needed to really support a student for an entire year of their journey and while they're also a student.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.960
So it is a living learning community where um students live together.
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:42.400
Many of them take their uh uh One Dog 101 class together, um, and that's sort of direct it towards first gen.
00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:49.039
But when they come in, we spend a week before classes even start in a bridge program where they move in early.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:21:07.359
They have an opportunity to really build community, which is one of the most important aspects of social capital in higher education, is having a community and other people that can help encourage you when times are rough or when things get difficult and they will get difficult.
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:27.039
Um, but having a group of people that you and peers especially that you can lean on, that you can go to, that you can um have that more um that you have more access to, um, even though students don't really understand that they do have that same access to faculty and to staff and administrators.
00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:40.400
Um, sometimes just sort of that bite-sized piece having another student that says it's okay to go ask your professor this, or I ask my professor that, or I've had this conversation, or I've even had this professor.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:49.279
So you might want to, you know, take this professor that I've had for a particular course, because that's the kind of information that students share with one another.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:59.839
But when they when they come in and they don't, they haven't built a community, then um sometimes they don't know who to ask those types of questions to.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:19.599
So um we set them up with a a built-in community that already cares about them, that already understands their experience, at least conceptually, if not um, you know, um actually having experience it themselves, then and we uh guide them through that first year.
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:23.839
So they get that bridge week where we spend a lot of time building community.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:34.880
But then beyond that, they have a mentor that they meet with um weekly, and then we do enrichment activities or enlightenment activities that help throughout the year.
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:43.759
So every month we have an event where we invite not just the first gen students that are in our program, but all first gen students.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:49.759
And really, all students are invited to come to our little monthly events that we have.
00:22:49.839 --> 00:23:08.160
Um, and some of those they range from things like a paint and sip night to something like maybe um discussions about registration and about the process for registration, which can be uh kind of daunting and challenging if you haven't gone through that process before.
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.079
Um but they do it together as a group.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:26.160
They get in one room and so it dispels some of the mystery and some of the fear around actually going through that process because everybody's there asking their questions and they laugh about it, and um, they really just become a community.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:33.599
And so uh now as we're coming to the end of the school year, one of the things we're looking forward to is our end of the year event.
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:54.559
And so this year we're gonna uh actually have some superlatives and we're gonna um do a pool party and get students together and um have a great meal um and actually just spend some time having them reflect on a year that many of them didn't know that they were gonna make it through.
00:23:54.799 --> 00:24:04.400
Um but it but really having them to celebrate the success and the idea that they are still here and look at them succeeding and all of that stuff.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:13.839
So um I love it, I love it to uh bring them together after going through that year and having them to really reflect on their own success.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:20.000
I know that I've I've seen some students, I think they they have they have a swag bag, I think, if I'm not mistaken.
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:29.920
I've seen a couple of students and they were walking along and they had uh it might have been under the the the former name, but they had their their swag bags and walking together.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:37.599
But it it you you see them really forming that bond and those those friendships and relationships.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:54.480
And I've had a couple of students who have gone through the program and then they turned around and they became mentors and continue to be to be mentors to the next generation, which is beautiful because it does build that community and it does bridge that gap.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:02.880
And I'm I uh from me as a faculty advisor to you and your program, thank you for the registration sessions.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:28.640
That is usually one of those those those areas where for a student, I think for all students, but also for first generation, yeah, they can it if they've had others that have gone through uh a four-year uh education program, they can ask their family members about that whole registration and your program and the catalog and selecting your classes and meeting with your advisor.
00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:40.880
But for those who do not have that resource at home or in the community, it really is a very daunting task to sit down and say, I this is determining my future.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:42.400
Am I taking the right classes?
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:47.920
I only have a certain number of years to get through this program or funding, you know, in some cases.
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:53.759
So thank you for including that in in the program because it is it's vital.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.000
It's vital for for actually for all students, but it's very vital.
00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:58.640
Very vital.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:25:59.759
All right.
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:01.839
So um, oh go ahead, go ahead.
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:02.240
No, go ahead.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:12.160
Well, I was gonna just mention and and back up to that, you know, a lot of times the topics that we discuss are um they're driven by the students' own experiences.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:17.279
And so um it's not like we might sit down and say, well, students need to know this, this, and that.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:31.519
When we start with Bridge Week and when we talk about the activities that they plan for the monthly events, we ask the mentors who many of them have also been through this experience, what what information is important?
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:34.720
What's gonna be important for students to know?
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:51.039
And what are at this point in the semester, are they gonna feel like having something heavy, like a knowledge session, a study session, or are they gonna need something that's more relaxing and something where they can really relax and um regroup?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:54.160
Uh what's gonna be important for them in this moment?
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:11.440
And I think paying attention, and so it's really student-driven a lot of what happens in the flight program is really uh driven by those students' knowledge, and and we value that knowledge and their way of knowing that comes from just the experiences that they've had.
00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:13.920
So I just wanted to add that as well too.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:20.160
That, you know, it's not like I come up with that whole curriculum, even though I appreciate your appreciation of us.
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:30.880
Um, but the students themselves really help come up with the highlights and those parts of our program which we're gonna, which we're going to make important.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:35.599
And also, you know, those are mandatory for the students to participate in.
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:38.480
But sometimes we have to have mandatory fun.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.720
So we do both, we do all of those things.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:45.200
I like that man mandatory fun.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:46.240
I like that.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:54.400
So I uh sending appreciation to to the mentors and the students for their programming ideas because it does, it it helps them.
00:27:54.640 --> 00:28:11.519
Um so let's talk about for maybe a a second about shifting from the actual academic arena and let's think about what purpose means for this segment of the student body.
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:20.079
And and in this college process, we're always saying, yes, you need to take these classes, you need to fill these degree uh requirements.
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:27.359
But then we kind of shift, especially as they start getting towards the end of their program, about their purpose, right?
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:43.839
Their not necessarily calling, but we'll stick with purpose, their their purpose and what it is they need to do and what drives you, what motivates you, and and how we turn that into seeking that next career opportunity or the next educational level.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:54.559
So what do we do with with students, um, uh especially from this group where they're finding this uh larger purpose, right?
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:59.039
And how does it how does their family weave into this purpose?
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:11.759
You talked a little bit about it earlier, but how does family and and their background or lived experiences weave into this larger purpose that is academics, family, career, community?
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:45.279
Yeah, so I I think that um for many of the students that are that are coming in as well, um I think finding what they enjoy and what they're good at and what they're passionate about, and having an opportunity to experience maybe many various different careers or be exposed to various different opportunities and careers, and even talking to some of the mentors about the paths that they have taken.
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:52.480
And so sometimes they may have had access to very few sort of career trajectories in the past.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:30:15.759
Maybe they've only seen a few different um career paths, and so they don't really understand that there's a plethora of things, and sometimes even understanding the things that they just enjoy doing, like music or or literature or writing or poetry, that those things can actually translate to a career path if that's what they're passionate about.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:36.079
Um, and so I think a big part of it is is uh really helping those students to see what it is that they are really good at and what it is that they have um been able to do in their lifetime that they could see themselves doing for a career, for a lifetime.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:46.160
That it it um it's not just about finding a job, but for many of them, they want to be um successful on their own terms.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:53.440
And um I think that purpose is really important as they want to help their families.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:58.079
And I think that's true for probably uh not just first gen students, but any student.
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:06.240
They want to be seen as a benefit and an asset to their families, whether it be their immediate families or their future families.
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:10.720
They want to know how can how am I going to contribute best to my family?
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:21.680
And I and part of what we try to build up in them is that you contribute best to your family by being successful and happy and healthy as an individual yourself.
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:28.880
And that's for most of us as parents that have had children that have gone through college, that's what we want for them.
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:30.319
So we don't know.
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:39.920
Yeah, it's not like we want them to go out there and get, you know, of course it'd be lovely if they're all doctors and lawyers and you know, they have these wonderful salaries.
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:41.920
That would be great for some people.
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:54.480
But I think as uh most parents and most uh even people that work in higher ed would say that we want that student to be fine success on their own terms.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:31:56.799
Does that make sense?
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:58.880
It does, it does, it does.
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:02.400
Uh and in that in that boat now, so yes, I can relate.
00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:09.039
I'm gonna I'm it it's stuck in the back of my mind, so we're gonna come back to it.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:09.599
Okay.
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:24.240
So we've talked about academics, social capital, um, this growth process, but you talked about uh it wasn't I I lost the phrase, required fund, uh mandatory fund.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:27.039
There it is, mandatory mandatory fund.
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:40.559
How can we create that that peaceful, restful, recentering type of environment for I'll say students in general.
00:32:40.720 --> 00:33:01.599
Um, sometimes our our our students are juggling not only the workload, um trying to find this purpose and trying to be involved in things on campus, they're taking care of family members, and sometimes they have jobs, sometimes full-time jobs.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:21.440
So what advice would you give for, you know, how can how what advice would you give for for students, but then how can we as a university committee um or community or or village help with finding that balance and and giving some some rest and and rejuvenation to to students?
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.400
I love that question.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:32.079
Um and I think for many students, they are just looking for empathy in our eyes.
00:33:32.240 --> 00:33:42.000
They want to know that um it's a safe place in terms of someone who is going to at least make an effort to understand them.
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:54.319
Um and I think also for us to see every to view every interaction with every student as a moment to have a transformational moment with that student.
00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:55.920
I like that.
00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:56.319
Okay.
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:57.519
Okay.
00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:05.920
And it may be that we say something, that we do something, that we don't say something, or that we don't do something.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:30.639
Um, but whatever it is that moment calls from, that even every single interaction that we have with a student has the possibility and the power to transform their thoughts about higher ed, about us as an administrator or as a professor or as a person who's seen who the student might view as successful or having holding some sense of power or prestige.
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:38.159
Um, every interaction that we have with the student has that power to be transformational and make a difference in their lives.
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:50.480
And so I think if we looked at every moment that we speak to a student, that we interact with them and we don't take it for granted, um, and that we see that this has a possibility to change lives.
00:34:50.639 --> 00:35:03.199
Just what I say in this moment and what I do in this moment, I think it would create a sense of safety and a sense of um of like and just in that empathy, right?
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:11.679
And I think in that community and that that really goes on to again continue to build community because that lets that student know that they are part.
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:13.519
There's no us and them.
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:16.960
Um, you know, you and I, there's there's us.
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:20.800
Um, so there's there's all of us, and we're in it together.
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:24.079
And I think that's what students need to know.
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:26.480
It's that village.
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:29.280
I I keep coming back because that's kind of like part of my philosophy.
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.840
It takes a village, it really does.
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:32.800
I like that.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:36.239
That is that is the gym right there.
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:43.360
That's gonna be one of the highlights to to kind of get us into this uh session once it's what's all said and done.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.519
Okay, so we're gonna do a little wrap-up now, believe it or not.
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:51.280
Um, and let's talk about some immediate actions.
00:35:51.760 --> 00:36:02.639
And actually, you you've given us a lot, but some immediate actions that we can provide um the audience, whether they're students or parents or um educators, the village, right?
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.400
Um, that they can tangibly use today, right?
00:36:06.719 --> 00:36:22.480
Um, so if you could give three immediate immediate actionable items to a first generation student or a mentor helping them to find their footing in higher education, what would it be?
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:37.519
Um, I think one of the things that I would tell uh a first gen student or or a mentor is that um that it's okay to make mistakes, that mistakes are okay.
00:36:37.679 --> 00:37:01.440
We all make them, and that um colleges are full of people, whether it be professors or mentors or administrators of people who have made big mistakes, but it's about what you do after that, after you make that mistake, that is the difference between your success and um and and and maybe those who have been less successful.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:10.239
Um, I think also understanding uh uh that going back to that first line, that they are there because they are supposed to be there.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:20.960
Um and to anytime they may feel a sense that they're not supposed to be in that environment, or anytime imposter syndrome tries to creep in.
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:32.639
I think just understanding that they've earned their place there in higher education and they are there, they were chosen to be there, and it's not by mistake, it's not by happenstance.
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:51.440
Um, their application didn't just fall off the desk and land in the admit pile, um, that it was a actually a rigorous process and that they are there because they they have earned um all and and they've you know accomplished everything that it takes to be a college student.
00:37:51.760 --> 00:38:02.480
And and I think the other thing that I would tell them is to um, you know, that that building community is just like building a home.
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.760
It's one step at a time, it's one piece at a time.
00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:17.760
So um when you start to build that community, you know, you start with people that are uh maybe have had similar experiences to you or what you have experienced in life.
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:47.920
But the the wonderful thing about being in a college environment is that it's so diverse and that there are so many people with so many different experiences, and that as you become more comfortable in in your own experiences and what you bring to the table, then it allows you to really be comfortable in sort of understanding and hearing and seeing what others and who they are and what they bring to the table and what and and really accepting others for who they are and the experience that they've had.
00:38:48.239 --> 00:39:10.960
So not to be afraid of their own experiences, but also not to be exp afraid of others, uh the diversity that they may find on college campuses, because that too is also a part of their growth and development and what will help them be successful as they navigate various different environments beyond college and even during college.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:15.679
So um, I mean, those are things that I think I would share with them right away.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:17.519
Yes, yes.
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:19.679
Okay, another question for you.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:31.119
Okay, what is one truth that you want a first gen student to remember when they feel overwhelmed by the pressure of being the first?
00:39:33.280 --> 00:39:44.320
Um, so uh it's one thing that I my grandfather used to say, and he's a minister, uh a Christian minister in the South, and he would say, you know, this too shall pass.
00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:54.000
And a lot of times when we're in the midst of something that feels really heavy, it's hard to believe that we're going to get through this.
00:39:54.239 --> 00:40:03.840
It's hard to believe that it's gonna be at some point it won't feel like this, and this will get lighter and this will get easier and heavy, and then this won't feel so heavy.
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:13.840
And so I think to just say to those students that this too will pass, um, this is something, it's a part of the process, but it's not the whole process.
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.079
Everything in higher ed is not hard.
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:22.880
It's not, you know, you're not gonna be drudging through mud for the in the totality of your experience.
00:40:23.039 --> 00:40:35.519
Um, the more you stick to it, then the more it will become um you will become more accustomed to it and you will actually find yourself that it gets easier for you.
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:45.760
Um, but sticking to it is a, you know, that's a really big piece for students to understand that the persistence that's necessary to be successful.
00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:51.360
Um, and so I would tell them persistence is necessary and that this too shall pass.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:52.400
I like that.
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:53.360
I like that.
00:40:53.679 --> 00:41:12.000
Now, what can we as staff and faculty do to embrace and make our classrooms, our programming, our activities uh very inclusive for this segment of our student population?
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:19.519
What can we do as an immediate action, whether it's you know a lecture, activity, what have you, what can we do?
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:35.199
Well, I would say um I think in the name of equity to understand that all students don't come equipped with the same uh experiences and they don't come equally prepared for college environments.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:42:35.679
And so I think that as we um engage students, whether it's inside the classroom or outside the classroom or on like the first gen cultural trip that I take students on when I take them um away so that they get to be exposed to some environment beyond the classroom, whatever, wherever you meet them, just be willing to meet students where they are and not to make assumptions about where they are, because um a lot of times that's what makes people feel um feel really like they're left out, because when a teacher or a someone who's in charge or has authority paints a picture and they don't see, they can't see themselves in that picture, then that can, you know, it can really cause a lot of um distress for an individual to say, well, they just described something that is college-worthy and that and I don't see myself in that.
00:42:35.760 --> 00:42:37.440
I wasn't a part of that picture.
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:40.079
So obviously I don't belong here.
00:42:40.400 --> 00:43:14.480
And so if we want to create a sense of belonging and we want people to feel like they're really a part of an environment, don't just invite them to the party, but you know, ask them to dance and ask them what kind of music they want to listen to and ask them where they came from and what kind of music do they listen to, and share that with us and invite everyone to share their own experiences so that it helps to again contribute to a community that's more fulfilling and that's more um inclusive for everyone.
00:43:14.559 --> 00:43:36.960
Um, so everyone's stories matter, but to definitely not to make assumptions uh based on identity or affinity in terms of where students are, but be willing to engage them in the process of understanding um how it is uh that they have come to be where they are and where they're going.
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:38.960
I love that.
00:43:39.199 --> 00:43:40.159
I love that.
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:41.519
All right.
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:46.320
So I couldn't be a marketing professor if I didn't ask.
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:51.360
If we want to continue the conversation with you, where can we find you?
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:56.000
Can we find you on LinkedIn, email, Instagram?
00:43:56.880 --> 00:43:59.760
I am, I am on, I have an Instagram.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.360
I don't really know how to use all of those things just away.
00:44:03.599 --> 00:44:12.480
So I know I might need to spend some time in some of your marketing classes learning how to better utilize some of my uh socials.
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:20.239
But uh definitely you can follow First Gen in the flight program on Instagram, uh Wingate First Gen.
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:24.159
Um, and you can also um come and meet us.
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:30.000
We're down at the community house uh where the co-op is located as well.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:37.679
So um my office is upstairs in the community house, and um my student workers are there.
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.119
I have a graduate assistant that works with me there as well.
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:48.400
And um, you can also just look me up on campus, and it's Dana.patterson at wingate.edu.
00:44:48.800 --> 00:45:06.000
So I would love, love, love to hear questions, to have inner exchange and to have conversation with individuals who are either first gen themselves or thinking about how they can help support first generation college students at Wingate and beyond.
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:10.559
Um, because it, like you said and very well said, it takes a village.
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:11.920
All right.
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:13.199
So, Dr.
00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:18.239
Dana Patterson, vice president of community at Wingate University.
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:27.519
Thank you so much for joining this collective conversation on Beyond the Syllabus, pedagogy and purpose.
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:28.880
Thank you.
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:36.559
This brings us to the end of today's episode of Beyond the Syllabus Pedagogy and Purpose.
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:38.000
Thank you for listening.
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:43.679
Until next time, keep learning, reflecting, and growing beyond the syllabus.
