Jami De Lou (00:08)
Welcome back to Adaptive Humans. I'm your host, Jamie DeLue.
Before we get started, a quick content note. We will be speaking honestly about illness, end of life, memory care, and chronic illness caregiving today. If that's a tender topic for you, please take care of yourself. Pause, skip, or come back when you're ready. Around here, we return to three anchors. How we navigate our emotions. How we adapt across differences.
and how we steady ourselves when stress or triggers show up. Because that's when life gets real.
Today we go deeper into a subject that happens when you're navigating the demands of elder caregiving while navigating a career and all of the other matters in life and everything that comes with trying to do both at once. I wanna say something personal before I introduce today's guest. Caregiving has been a part of my story since I was a teenager. My mom battled multiple sclerosis for...
almost 20 years before she passed away at 60. I was in my early 30s. That loss shaped everything about how I understand caregiving, grief, and what it means to keep showing up in life as a leader, as a parent, and as a human while carrying it all. There is so much I understand now in hindsight about the impact it had on me as a leader.
that I could not fully see at the time. More recently, I shared in season one that my father-in-law passed away suddenly, and our family was thrust into navigating caregiving needs for my mother-in-law, including memory care. So I don't come to this conversation as an observer. I come to it as someone who has known caregiving and loss for most of my life, and who's still in it.
My guest today has not just written about this, she has lived it. And she has built some of the most precise language I know for naming what that costs and what belonging to yourself, really belonging to yourself, makes possible on the other side.
Ritu Basin is the CEO of Basin Consulting, a globally recognized full service leadership and inclusion consulting firm that has worked with hundreds of world renowned organizations since its launch in 2010. She's an award winning speaker, bestselling author, global consultant, and world renowned expert in leadership, talent management, DEI, and empowerment.
Ritu has presented to hundreds of thousands of people globally and has personally coached thousands of leaders. Her bestselling books, The Authenticity Principle in 2017, and We've Got This in 2023, are linked in the show notes. Ritu is based in Toronto, Canada, and when she's not working, you'll find her traveling the world to eat, swim, hike, dance, and chill.
She's also the proud Punjabi daughter who navigated a career while caring for her mother's long-term chronic illness and battle with Alzheimer's while leading a global organization.
As we open and throughout the conversation, you'll see that Ritu and I have a tendency, because we've known each other for so long, that we can go really deep in conversation. And so we actually covered the span of all of the usual segments beyond the bio, the brave enough moment, and the just be reset by just flowing through this conversation.
not always with the most distinct starts and stops. And it really felt like this beautiful, genuine conversation where she shared, I shared, and we showed up for each other. It's a genuine heartfelt, and you might even find a few tears. So please, I hope you'll join me in welcoming Ritu to Adaptive Humans.
Jami De Lou (04:06)
Ritu, welcome to Adoptive Humans. I'm so glad you're here.
Ritu (04:10)
Aw, thank you for having me.
Jami De Lou (04:12)
⁓ Before we get started, I thought it would be worth noting to our listeners that you and I actually do know each other. And I was looking at that, trying to count back, and I'm like, it's been more than a decade that we've known each other, which feels like yesterday and probably longer sometimes. But in that time, I always think about the things that we have in common or our commitment to driving inclusive workplaces and leadership. But more importantly,
as personal humans, I think about our favorite pastime of meeting up in cities where we can be in the same city or country at the same time and have a yummy dinner and usually ends up in some really deep conversation about some particular thing that's going on in one or both of our lives. Would you agree?
Ritu (04:53)
Yeah, yes, in fact, I was going
to play a consistent theme in us getting together is yummy food and then like soul, soul defining, warming conversation. So I look forward to continuing that today.
Jami De Lou (05:10)
Thank you. I completely echo that. It was well said. And so I'm so grateful that you're really open to not only in person when it's just the two of us in a dimly lit restaurant with good food, but here on a podcast for listeners around the world, hopefully, to talk about caregiving and culture and the idea of belonging to yourself first, which when you put all those things together can sometimes be hard, right?
So I'd love for us to get into it. So we start with Beyond the Bio. Beyond the Bio is where we meet the human behind the title where authenticity really has space to show up. So for our listeners to learn more about you, what is your early life and career? You know, the work that shaped you, the books, you you focused on authenticity and belonging, but what really shaped how you came to this work?
Ritu (06:01)
Yeah, it's a great place to start because I think, know, whenever I meet someone new, I'm like, no, no, tell me your story. Like start right from the beginning. And when I say right from the beginning, I mean, like, where were your parents born? Where were they from? And tell me about your lineage, which is also very culturally appropriate given that I come from South Asian culture. And so my parents were born in India now many, many, many years ago, and they were immigrants to Canada.
And so I was born in Canada. am Canadian. That's where I live and I'm joining you from today. And they immigrated to Canada now well over 55 years ago and started their lives here. it's a defining part of my story that they come from India, which I view as being my
my ancestral lineage, my background, my cultural heritage, but that they chose to start their lives as newlyweds in Canada, which is also my culture and my background and the spirit of my identity. I had a really challenging childhood in many ways because of having my
foot in a few cultural doors. And in particular, so what I watch my parents struggle as a lot of immigrants do when they come to new places where they don't look like or sound like the people around them. And in particular, in coming from India, we're North Indians, so we're Punjabi by culture.
But my faith is called Sikhism. I am a Sikh. It's Sikh is spelled S-I-K-H. It's pronounced Sikh, not Sikh. As we learn to decolonize language and pronounce things properly, it's actually Sikh, not Sikh. So you can take that away after today. My father is part of our faith, wears a turban, has a beard, the full deal. And in fact, if you follow me on Instagram, you'll know my father's videos go viral. Mine do not, everyone, but his do. And so he's such a character.
like we just visibly stood out in then Canada, let alone now. And so I watched my parents struggle in all the ways, but I also struggled. And I struggled in a few ways. I struggled because I was being raised in a household where my parents were very committed to teaching us about Indian culture, but they also wanted us to embrace a Canadian culture, a Canadiana.
the levers on be more Canadian or be more Indian were never clear. And so I struggled a lot with my identity. But on top of that, I experienced ⁓ relentless bullying from about the age of 11. And the bullying was intersectional in that it was racist first and foremost, but it also intersected with the fact that I was a really sassy, smart,
⁓ feisty young girl and there was no room for that back in the 80s and 90s. And if we think there's no room for it now, it was way worse then. And then I would say that the bullying was also classist or elitist because my parents essentially moved us from like an inner city, very multicultural working class neighborhood, very diverse, lots of immigrants to a
far more affluent neighbourhood outside in the suburbs of Toronto. And it was a massive financial stretch for them to do that. It was a very homogeneous neighbourhood, really wasp. And I ⁓ stuck out both visibly, but also we were climbing the financial ladder. And so I just didn't have class privilege like the kids around me. And they reminded me of that at every turn. So from a young age, I really struggled to belong.
and in fact I learned from a young age that I shouldn't be different, I should try to push down my differences and be like everyone else. I brought that spirit with me into my adulthood when I chose to join one of most high conforming professions out there by choosing to become a lawyer, which I did because I wanted to fight for social justice, but really I ended up working in the towers and the corporate towers for many many years. I still have my client base is in the towers, continues to be the case.
And I found that the messages around conformity were never as pronounced as the bullying. Like it was never as direct as the bullying, but the struggle to feel like I belonged and see myself represented and to actually just exhale and be who I am. I really struggled with that in working in the corporate world. And ultimately I spent 10 years in the legal profession working in law firm culture and
But 15 years ago, I now over 15 years ago, I left my career identity as an employee and I started my own business. became an entrepreneur when I launched my leadership and inclusion and belonging consulting firm. And, you know, in making that decision and then I'll wind down because I feel like I've already said so much. I did it for several reasons, but now I deeply understand that
One of the reasons I did this spiritually was so that I could find myself and I could finally stand in my power and deeply understanding how to be more of who I am at my core. And let me just say that it continues to be a journey. I feel like I am so much more grounded and rooted than I was 15 years ago.
But even in this moment of dramatic change in the world and therefore in my life around how I work and live, I'm continuing to peel layers of the onion back around who I am and how I want to live. And it gets a constant check in for me around belonging. And so I would say,
Jami De Lou (12:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Ritu (12:07)
My childhood, all of my roots, my ancestors, all of this has a profound impact on who I am today.
Jami De Lou (12:15)
Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. think a lot of times people underestimate how much their origin story really plays into who they are, how they show up, the kind of work they do, what they advocate for, all those kinds of things, right? And I mean, I think about my own story and thinking about the ways in wanting to solve for being able to belong.
despite the fact that I walk with certain privileges as a white woman doing this work that we share in common, but also just in my own journey. And so a lot of things, sometimes things are seen visibly that we know. Someone might feel a gap or, you for me, I was born to a single mom in the seventies and how ostracizing that was, and even how we were cast off from my mom's family initially and then brought back into the fold and.
So that legitimacy and different things about that dynamic, there's really fundamental things in your origin story and that can happen throughout your life that feed into how we navigate the world and culture and all those different layers of and walking between the place. I think about that idea of your parents wanting so much more for you and your siblings to have a better life too and moving to the suburbs and.
Ritu (13:13)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (13:29)
probably thinking better schools, right? Where there's always those better words. But there's trade-offs and sacrifices that in the time of doing that, you can't always know as parents, right? You just are doing the absolute best you can. And as kids, we sort of grow up through these different dynamics that happen in our stories. And I think making space to be able to talk about that is important because I think what you've just shared is where you are today is understanding that the books you've written and the work you've done has
turned inward for your own growth and healing and purpose beyond all the amazing things you do for other people. And I think, I don't know that everyone gets to do that through their work. That's an amazing part of the journey, right?
Ritu (14:10)
Yeah, you know, I think that's such an interesting insight. I'm sure when I am in my 70s or 80s, God willing, that I will be able to make better sense of it and greater sense of it. Like, why did I choose certain decisions or how those decisions have led me to be where I am? But I would say that one thing does strike me that
there are the decisions that we make cognitively, like through our rational mind, through our conscious awareness. And I'm increasingly seeing that there are decisions that our inner knowing, I call it core wisdom from my book, We've Got This, which is about belonging, but that our inner knowing holds. And that in fact, before our analytical mind has even
Jami De Lou (14:58)
You
Ritu (15:04)
caught up with it or our conscious awareness has clocked it, it's like our inner knowing, our spiritual knowing, our soulful knowing, our embodied knowing already knows that this is what we should do or this is why we're doing what we're doing. I think about, for example, in writing both my books, the first book, The Authenticity Principle, I wrote because, on the surface, because I thought at the time workplaces needed more
direction and guidance on how to actually work, live and lead with this spirit of authenticity, authentic leadership. That's, and I also on a personal note, personal professional note was like, I've been a speaker for years, but I don't have a book. All the other speakers have books. I should get it. I should write a book. I, I, was like within a few years where I'm like, my God, I didn't write the book for the world. I wrote the book for my soul and, and
because I've written this book, I'm actually learning to live more authentically. And of course, wouldn't you know what the exact same thing happened with my second book, We've Got This, which again is about belonging. I was like, I'm going to talk about how do we create and claim greater belonging for ourselves and for others, especially knowing how hard life can be and why it's so important to develop inner wisdom and all that. But as I was writing, I'm like, this is actually healing me.
And I'm feeling greater belonging than ever before. But in particular, I'm feeling greater belonging to myself. I now see at the age of 50, which is bananas to begin with, because I used to think 50 was so old, and now I'm 50. And I'm like, my god. Actually, it's not at all. And we're so young. And simultaneously, I'm like, holy shit, that's so old. And it's still so young all at the same time.
Jami De Lou (16:37)
you
We're so young.
Ritu (16:51)
But that to belong to myself is the most important thing. That every day when I am mindfully bringing awareness to what I'm saying to myself in my head, to myself, I'm hearing the self-logging and the constant pressure I put on myself to do more and achieve more and carry more and it's just never enough or the berating that I do towards myself in my head. And I'm hearing that and I'm like,
that behavior is not rooted in belonging to myself. And where is that voice coming from and how does it hurt me and what can I do about it? And so I am starting to understand more and more that nothing is as it seems on the surface. There's all kinds of inner wisdom, ancestral, spiritual, cosmic, mystic.
Jami De Lou (17:23)
you
Ritu (17:45)
underpinnings to why we do what do.
Jami De Lou (17:46)
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that Shonda Rhimes and her year of yes, my favorite chapter she has is talks about the FOD, the first only different concept when you're the first to have to, and I think there's a lot of what you were just describing, like that over-functioning, the striving, like gets amplified when you're the first because there was no like yellow brick road paved for you in front of you. Like you were literally laying the, you know, the bricks as you were walking.
Ritu (17:56)
Yes.
Jami De Lou (18:16)
to find your way down this road, which makes it a little bit more complicated and hard. And I think coming to that place to belong to yourself instead of striving for how you belong somewhere else and seeking an outward, feel like it almost like, I feel like Gen Z is starting to figure out how to do that younger, but that was not generationally something that was very accessible for us as Gen Xers, right? We like, if you were gonna make it, you had to just keep striving and we were, know, and everyone, like all the,
Ritu (18:39)
Agree.
Jami De Lou (18:46)
the things that people say about boomers, laugh sometimes because I'm like, you everyone goes from boomers to millennials and just skips us as Gen Xers, which we could do a whole other podcast episode on probably, but it is that notion of striving and pushing towards something. And there's nothing wrong with wanting career or success or love or life, whatever you're pursuing. But when you're doing it...
outwardly and not at peace inwardly. Sometimes you don't even know you're not at peace until the reckoning kind of happens. And I think as we progress in the episode, I think we'll talk a little bit more about how that happens. But I think that belonging to yourself, and I do think there's an element as we segue into talking about caregiving and loss, reckoning with those things can both send you into overdrive in things.
But then there's also a reckoning at some point where you kind of face it and ideally come to terms with it in a different way that you start to nurture yourself inwardly, hopefully more afterwards if you're not doing it in the midst of it, because in the midst of it, it can feel hard. But I do think that sense of like, am I still, I'm still here, how do I make purpose out of that, right? When you think about the role of caregiving.
Ritu (19:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that you use the word reckoning because I would say that I, I that word resonates with me, but also I used a word recently on on social media on LinkedIn, Instagram that reminds me of the experience of having a reckoning, which is a life quake. And I had a life quake moment. Now
Jami De Lou (20:17)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (20:21)
two years ago when my mother passed away and she transitioned from physical body. And I didn't know that it would be a life reckoning moment. I didn't anticipate that it would be a life quake, but it was. And there was my caregiving journey beforehand and then she passed. And then the chapter that started afterwards has literally changed my life.
And I...
I thought that my mom would pass and that I would be sad and upset and that I would carry my grief into my life knowing that my life would change but I would carry on with my life being my life in same pattern, structures, schedule, that type of thing. I didn't anticipate that actually what would happen as a life quake and everything would change. Like my life is so different than it was two years ago.
I am so different than who I was two years ago. so I love that you said reckoning, because yes, the reckoning happened that has enabled me to belong more to myself than ever before. And by the way, two years ago was just after my second book on belonging came out. And I was already experiencing this greater sense of, wow, I'm literally swimming a land of talking about belonging nonstop, which
for me constantly causes me to self-reflect and to be with my experience with something. And I didn't anticipate that the life quake and my journey to belong would be like, connected.
Jami De Lou (21:49)
Hmm.
Yeah. I'm curious, how did you navigate growing your business and what you do as a global leader while simultaneously your mom's caregiving needs started to increase? Could you talk a little bit about that?
Ritu (22:15)
Yeah, and let me give a little bit of background because I know you know a lot about my caregiving journey, but others may not. I talk a lot about it and we've got this, but as I was caregiving, I was writing the book. so just by way of background, ⁓ my mother, right around my age now, or just a few years older, in her early 50s, was diagnosed with severe rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune disease.
Jami De Lou (22:16)
Yeah.
Ritu (22:41)
And so my caregiving journey began in my 20s. And I didn't know at that moment that I was stepping into a caregiving role or function. I don't think any of us did in my family, other than my dad, I guess my dad knew. But I'm the eldest ⁓ in a Punjabi household, which makes me the third parent. But very much I stepped into that role.
as a caregiver, like I was a caregiver for my mom for over 20 years, essentially. And it first started with the rheumatoid arthritis and the rheumatoid arthritis as an autoimmune disease created all kinds of other complications. So there was just always something that my mom was struggling with as it relates to her physical health, her mental health, spiritual health, all of it. ⁓ And she was a really sassy, vibrant, feisty
Jami De Lou (23:26)
you
Ritu (23:31)
I'm a lot like her in many, many ways, which is a beautiful thing. And it makes me really emotional because so many times as I'm speaking or I'm laughing or I'm just doing whatever I'm doing, I'm like, I literally feel my mother's energy coming out of me because we're very, very alike in our mannerisms. And so one day essentially she couldn't get out of bed.
and she couldn't get out of bed for almost a year because of the rheumatoid. And that's when her journey started. She became disabled in her early 50s, did not return back to work. She was a teacher. from a very young age, like in my 20s, I constantly worried about getting a phone call that she had passed or she had transitioned. So the fear of her passing, her mortality was just always with me over time.
She did her best to live a good, healthy life as much as possible while living with a severe autoimmune disease. And we did our best to fill her life with joy and make her life be as painless as possible as she navigated the rheumatoid. And then she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, which was in her early 70s. Alzheimer's, as you may know, is also an autoimmune disease. It is a terminal autoimmune.
Jami De Lou (24:22)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (24:42)
mental illness and ⁓ it is the only terminal form of dementia. is as severe and as ugly and as horrible as we hear about it being. And then to live through caregiving for someone you love deeply who is living with Alzheimer's is extremely challenging because over time
they change and they change and they change. And while they are with you in physical body, their essence and their spirit is still there. They're just different and they're changing. so there's a lot of grief that we experience as caregivers when it comes to Alzheimer's while your beloved is still with you. And in fact, I didn't know this then I now know or along the journey while she was still alive. I found out through like...
attending caregiver support groups and reading and all that. And my sister, who is a massive resource, she's in the healthcare area. And so she knows a lot and it really was a pillar of support for her family. It's called ambiguous loss, where your beloved is still with you, but they're different. And so you're grieving who they were while they're still with you. so I
her Alzheimer's moved from early stages of Alzheimer's to the mid stages into the severe stages, like the bad and the ugly stages of Alzheimer's, through the pandemic. And so actually the pandemic would have been the catalyst event that amplified or caused more changes and shifts, probably because of the disruption in her routine and less social interaction. And so,
Jami De Lou (26:16)
Yeah.
Ritu (26:21)
To say that the pandemic years or the three, four years of the pandemic from 2020 to 2024, when she passed in February, those four years were the hardest years of my life. I was navigating as a business owner, having to constantly pivot and shift, pivot shift as it relates to the business and caring for my employees and my clients and all that, trying to earn income.
George Floyd was murdered in May of 2020 and as someone who is really passionate about anti-racism, I felt very spiritually attached to being an advocate at the time while I was caregiving. And we at some point made the very difficult decision as an Indian family to transition my mom from living with my father with private support caregivers coming in like PSW's personal support workers.
coming in, it still wasn't enough to moving her into a nursing home, which culturally is not what we do in my culture. Like that's not the jam, that's not what we do, but we had to, and that was extremely challenging. But because we moved her into a care home and culturally didn't feel right, we made a commitment as family members that we would make sure that she was rarely alone.
Jami De Lou (27:21)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (27:39)
⁓ except for after like in the evening. So like for 7, 8 p.m. onwards, 6, 7, 8 onwards, she would be alone for the evening through the night. But in the morning, someone would be with her. And so financially, it meant us pooling resources to hire a personal support worker who went in almost every day on the days that are beautiful. addition to our family who navigated this journey with us, it's emotional because I love
Jami De Lou (28:02)
Yeah.
Ritu (28:04)
her name, her name is Tessa. love Tessa so much. On days Tessa didn't go in, which was like once or twice a week, one of us would go in. So I think like maybe five times over two years ish my mom was ever alone. And like I said, didn't have someone come in to spend time with her. That was the only way we could do it. Culturally, it felt okay to do. But
Along that journey, we transitioned her into palliative care. We thought that she would pass, ⁓ but she was in palliative for two years. during that palliative period, I was running the business, working in the post George Floyd murder era of working 80 hours a week, sometimes 100 hours a week, trying to navigate and going to see my mom, which is an hour drive.
one way and an hour drive back, twice a week. And then on top of that, I wrote my second book and to say, like, even as I say this now, I'm like, what was I doing? Like what was I even thinking? How did I pull that off? How did I manage that? I do not know. I don't understand. That said, with the benefit of hindsight, and actually, even as I say this to you, as I'm sharing this, I'm like, no effing wonder.
Jami De Lou (29:04)
Yeah.
Ritu (29:19)
I had a life quake moment and a reckoning moment. When my mom passed in February of 2024 on Valentine's Day, a day of love commercially, but now a very important day in our lives, I literally couldn't get out of bed for weeks. And it was the first time in my entire adulthood
of working for almost 25 years, 60, 80, 100 hour weeks, because I used to be a lawyer and then I worked on In the Towers and then I started my business and then worked with all the clients in the towers. I, for the first time, I gave myself empathy and permission to not work and not do anything but grieve. And so I threw myself into the grieving journey.
Jami De Lou (30:05)
Yeah.
Ritu (30:11)
because what I realized is, and this goes back to your question, and this is probably the longest answer I've ever given to a question, that I now understand, my nervous system was in a form of freeze, that I was almost robotic in trying to manage everything that was happening in my life. And I didn't have bandwidth or space to actually unravel.
Jami De Lou (30:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ritu (30:35)
and let go because her care became the central. Her care and keeping my business running were the two pillars. And it wasn't until she transitioned that I could finally let go of it all, including running the business and just being like, now I'm going to come undone. And I did come undone. I came fully undone.
Jami De Lou (30:58)
Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. It's gonna help more people than you know, to be honest, but I also like, I hold that with you. And I realized for as long as we've known each other, there's pieces of the story that I knew, but not all of it in the ways. And it's so interesting the parallels and connections between things that I see in both of us where...
For me, my mom was diagnosed with MS when I was a teenager. And so when you talked about being afraid of that call and living constantly in fear, and my mom was hell bent that I would not stop my life for her. Going off to college, going off to grad school, I would come home and then figure out another pivot and move to some other part of the country. And every time she was like saying goodbye is so hard, but she was hell bent to give me wings.
Ritu (31:27)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (31:47)
In some, I always thought, a gift she gave me because my mom passed, I was only 32 and she was 60. So I was caregiving through teens, college, early marriage, family, like all these things. And then when her care became acute and other things and flying back and forth between halfway between the country and California where she was. But I just know that overdrive. And it was interesting when she passed.
I was still young, my brain, I learned this after, like in my early 30s, your brain is still finishing forming, right? So it was working with a therapist that I didn't initially seek out grief therapy, because I was like, I think I came home, I remember coming home, and I remember I had been away from work. I got on a plane a week after my mom died and flew to another city, and for the remainder of that fall,
Every other week I was in a different country handling things for work. And I would break down in between, but I would show up and like just keep showing up. And all of this muscle memory like taught me how to keep going. And it was that survival that I didn't learn to turn off until the reckoning I had almost six years ago now, where I started to realize I had been in chronic burnout for a significant period of time.
Ritu (33:04)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (33:07)
but just kept going because everyone needed me and I didn't know how to turn it off. I physically and emotionally, and my mind, body, my nervous system, my connection, didn't know. So if someone at work asked me for one more thing, I said, yes. If my kids, my family, my whoever around me needed one more thing, I was going to show up. And it can be really difficult, think, especially if your caregiving story with a family member has a longevity and legs.
before it turns to something more terminal, right? But when you're living in that fear, your nervous system is getting dysregulated. And if you don't understand how your nervous system works, which I didn't at that time, and I think there's a lot more information accessible now around your brain and your body and the connection and mindfulness and all these things, but I do think it can show up in different ways until your body and mind just can't anymore.
I feel like us having this conversation, I hope some of what we share, both of us, helps someone else that maybe doesn't have to wait till that breaking point. But if you do, also there's no judgment that it took to the breaking point because that's life sometimes, right?
Ritu (34:05)
No.
So.
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because I, while I was caregiving, like there was a two year period, like from 2022 to 2024, where once my mom moved into palliative, which was early 2022, where, but even prior to that 2021, anyhow, these, the three years, three, four years of the pandemic, when all of this was happening.
I thought I was a really well-resourced person and I was doing all the things. So I have studied trauma. I have a very good understanding of how the nervous system works. I knew it before the pandemic, how the nervous system works. And so I wasn't confused. I knew, I'm like, are you in freeze? Are you feeling freezy? And I'm like, no, because I'm crying and I can access my emotions and feelings. But I think on a macro level, my system was in freeze.
Jami De Lou (34:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (35:05)
And
I was having moments of being connected and being embodied, but global, like global high activation is what we would call it in the trauma world that I have studied. I was doing therapy and I was spending time with beloveds and friends and I was working out the best I could. And so I was doing things here and there, which I think gave me the illusion of I'm doing my best to care for myself.
That said, I was constantly stressed. I was like one thread away from unraveling any given moment, but even when the thread was being pulled, I'm like, I can't, I still got to keep it together because we need to take care of, we have to contact the home for this and then we got to deal with this with the Ministry of Health and then we got to deal with this with making sure that someone goes to see her for the weekend because thus I can't go in and then.
Jami De Lou (35:37)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (36:00)
and then the business this, and then I'm trying to be a good spouse and a good friend and a daughter, and then supporting my dad and like being a bit strong for my dad. And so I think I did the best I could and actually my best was really good. And even in the moment, I would just constantly say to myself, I'm doing my best, I'm doing my best and your best is really good. And so I did what I had to do.
for those two years, three years, for the 25 years of caregiving. I did the best I could and my best was really good. And I honored my mother in all of the ways that a Punjabi daughter would and should and it felt right to do. I think what I got though, once she passed,
And when I say I got this, I got this not only because she physically transitioned, but also I feel like spiritually in her transitioning, she said to my soul, it's your turn now. Now I get to take care of you. And I think that what I have been experiencing for the last few years, I see you getting emotional too, is I feel like...
Jami De Lou (37:13)
Mm-hmm
Ritu (37:17)
she's spiritually caring for me now. Because what did ultimately happen, and people had told me this would happen, because I talked to, I didn't have, my mother passed away before a lot of my friends' parents did. You're one of the few exceptions. And, but what my few friends had told me, and I had read this online, because I tried my best to plug into things more once I knew the end was, her transition was coming to, at a physical body, her passing, is that,
Jami De Lou (37:30)
Yeah.
Ritu (37:43)
As a caregiver, when the person actually transitions, like you feel lighter and you feel lighter literally because you're no longer having to watch them be in pain and struggle. And that was probably one of the hardest things for me. Watching her change and knowing that her essence and spirit, which was so vibrant and dynamic and just magnanimous, would not want to be in this state.
Jami De Lou (37:48)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (38:10)
that I was praying for mercy, like being like, okay, this is enough, like, let's pull her out of this struggle because this is just not, it's so hard to watch and I know her soul would not want this. So there's a lightness that comes with that. There is a massive lightness that comes with not having the cloud of how is she today? How is she today? Is she okay? Is today gonna be the day that I get the call? Is it gonna be today? Is it tomorrow? Like there's a lightness that comes with that because that's released into the world.
there's literally a time lightness. gives them that suddenly I had way more time and bandwidth to do other things and care for myself and just literally to turn to myself. And then there was also a lightness that for me that came with starting to realize that I'm still in a relationship with my mom, that while she is...
Jami De Lou (38:59)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (39:02)
not here in physical body, which by the way, some of the language I've used today, some of you may have clocked it, like it's deliberate because both from my faith, ⁓ Sikhism and my own personal belief in spirituality that the physical body is so important because it's the home that carries our soul and our essence in this lifetime, but it is a physical body. Like there were more than just physical body in my view that
Jami De Lou (39:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (39:30)
I didn't realize that she would transition in physical body, but I'd still be in a relationship with her and I would still be able to connect with her. I didn't anticipate that. Like I had heard people would say that I feel my mom's energy or I feel my friend's energy or whatever. And I was like, that sounds lovely. I don't know what you mean, but I have no idea what you mean, rock on, but sounds nice. But now I'm living it. And there's a little miss that comes with that too, that it's like.
Jami De Lou (39:35)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ritu (39:56)
She's still here. She's like literally when I hear myself laugh sometimes or two months after she passed, I think this was a gift that she brought into my life. We had a beautiful, adorable fur baby join us. His name is Buncey, Buncey Paseen. He's an eight pound toy poodle. And if you're like, is he cute? You should check out my Instagram page. He's the cutest. He's so cute. He's the cutest. And all the time when I'm with him, I giggle and I laugh and I feel my mom.
Jami De Lou (40:09)
Mm-hmm.
He's very cute.
Yeah.
Ritu (40:25)
And I
wonder to myself, is this what she was like with me when I was little? Anyhow, it, the lightness that comes with the transition is, well, it changed my life because it gave me an opportunity for the first time ever to finally let go of
V.
responsibility I felt to care give for her and to finally actually take care of myself. Put all of my attention onto myself. And then you use the word burnout, and which I am grateful for because one of the very first things that happened to me in my life, quick moment after my mom transitioned, is that I finally admitted to myself.
Jami De Lou (40:58)
Yeah.
Ritu (41:15)
and then started saying to the world that I have clinical burnout. I had never talked about it before. I knew I had burnout. I had it during the pandemic. We teach about burnout at my leadership firm. And I remember as my sister was teaching about it, I was like, I have that, but I can't admit it because if I admit it, I'm going to have to stop working and I can't stop working. And there's too much shit going on. have to keep going. But now I'm like, no, I have burnout. And it is extremely challenging to heal when you are still working, which I am.
Jami De Lou (41:19)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (41:42)
although significantly less now for many reasons, including wanting to heal the burnout. But what I realized is caregiving can and does cause or feed into burnout. And it did for me.
Jami De Lou (41:54)
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, absolutely. think about, you know, the irony is this conversation was supposed to happen in October for us. You were scheduled to have this conversation about caregiving in my mind wrapped around a totally different thing. Well, similar conversation, but it's interesting the anchoring. My father-in-law happened to pass the weekend, the Saturday before we were scheduled to have this and...
Ritu (42:05)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (42:21)
It was interesting because if I anchor back to losing my mom and the journey and, but the final reckoning of understanding burnout and really doing work to heal, put me in a different position when he died suddenly and we were very quickly gonna have to get to Panama, navigating being in another country, realizing how much my mother-in-law's needs had accelerated. And my father-in-law was trying to do it all despite us trying to help him. And the things of being
across countries between family. But what was interesting, I was thinking about as you were talking that spiritual, like people being with you, I had been training for a 10K walking. Let's just be honest, I wasn't running because my joints don't do that anymore. But I trained for this 10K really in preparation for a 10K I was supposed to do in the new year. And it was a local race and I had signed up. And so it was the morning after my father-in-law had passed.
I basically was like, I really think I should still do this. And my husband, of course, was super supportive. Youngest daughter was like, we're going to come out and cheer you on. And so I went out and did this race. And what was so interesting, and I just have to share this because I feel like you'll appreciate it, but I hope listeners will, is when I was out on the race course, I was literally the slowest walker because most people were running the race. I came in as the last 10K finisher of the race.
There was half marathoners finishing before me, but I was on this route, running my own race, or literally walking my own race, where I just felt this sense and this presence. over the last five years, I have ⁓ lost significant elders in my life, people who served as surrogate mothers, surrogate fathers to me, all of these things culminating with my father-in-law the day before, who I was very, very close with and still like,
just miss him terribly. But it was on this route and ⁓ my husband and daughter were very sweet and they would pop up on different parts of the route to cheer me on, whatever. But I got to this part, Ritu, where there was a tunnel. And as I was walking through the tunnel, it's like I could feel the spirit of this league of extraordinary elders. And I just could feel them assembled. And I was in this tunnel by myself and it was like really echoey. And I just started like...
Ritu (44:31)
you
I got.
Jami De Lou (44:40)
thank you, like thank you, like literally hollering out thank you because in the core of my being, all I kept thinking was I'm here because every single one of you have poured into me. Like my Saturday mornings were chats with my father-in-law. That was our way of being connected. It was our weekly time. And, you know, he passed on a Saturday morning and all these things 24 hours later, but it was just this beautiful experience of feeling like I was carrying all of them, not in a way that felt
heavy like when they were ill or sick, but in this light spirited way of you all helped me become who I am today. And I did the work to choose to heal. And I can feel that connection in a deeper way that I don't think I got to connect with in the same way when the burnout was just, when you're fried and wired, like you're just, it's hard to really connect with that spiritually. so,
It was such a beautiful thing when I crossed the finish line because I felt like I was just carrying everything with me, you know? It was really powerful. So I just wanted to share that because I feel like there's these moments of connection that I absolutely agree that people, they stay with us. But I do think that that access to that connection, it does help when we are finding space to allow ourselves to thrive in different ways. We're able to kind of see and feel the connection. I feel like
in ways that feel uplifting and light that doesn't necessarily feel as heavy as sometimes the grief can feel heavy and weighted. Like it can feel light. And I think no one talks about grief as heavy, grief, are moments, those little moments of connection that just feel so invigorating and light and beautiful, even if they include tears and release in that way, that can be really nice.
Ritu (46:09)
Yeah.
Yeah, one of the things I would say for people tuning in that if you're on your own journey with grief or caregiving and you're wondering
Jami De Lou (46:37)
Yeah.
Ritu (46:40)
what might be helpful or what did we do that was helpful? Like if someone were to say to me, Ritu, what did you do that was helpful after, in the context of caregiving for your mom, but, and also after her passing, I would say to you, I did not run away from the grief. Like I rolled around in the grief. I continue to roll around the grief. I sit in the grief. When I let the grief out of my physical body, like I literally, ⁓
blood curdling, howling, wailing cry comes out of me. And I can tell that I am releasing the pain I hold based on my grief in this lived life for my mom, everything else, but also the grief I carry of my ancestors and the world, the interconnectedness. so, and what's beautiful about letting it out and
Jami De Lou (47:26)
Yeah.
Ritu (47:33)
and being with the grief and like fully experiencing it in all the ways is that we do release it. And as we do, it creates capacity for more of that lightness that you're talking about and that I am feeling increasingly. And I remember right around the time my mom passed, was just after as it happens, I came across a video of Tyler Perry talking to Oprah about grief. And he said,
Jami De Lou (47:44)
Yeah.
Ritu (47:59)
grief will wait for you. And I thought it was such a powerful insight because it is true in my opinion, that grief will wait for you. Like we can try to work it away, we can try to drink it away, we can try to dance it away, we can try to shop it away, watch TV it away or whatever. Like basically distract ourselves from it, but it will wait. And I was like, I'm not gonna have it wait and then hit me 20 years from now, I'm gonna be with it now. And I'm so glad that I did because
Jami De Lou (48:01)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ritu (48:28)
I don't think that I would be having the full extent of this incredible experience with greater lightness and spirituality and the cosmic mystic world and greater belonging to myself and being more embodied had I not been with the grief. And so for me, grief, caregiving, elder care has been such a teacher.
Jami De Lou (48:44)
Yeah.
Ritu (48:57)
is such a humbling, humbling teacher. And while it is by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced, and those few years I talked about in the pandemic were by far the hardest years of my life, and they sucked, I am better for it.
Jami De Lou (49:17)
Yeah, yeah. I think you're so right that the reckoning, it's gonna, to deal with it and to allow the grief to have space. And I think the thing that I always tell people is yes, different significant days and anniversaries can hit you hard, but the random Tuesday grief, ooh, sometimes the random Tuesday grief is harder. And... ⁓
Ritu (49:38)
Gosh.
Jami De Lou (49:38)
I think the
other thing is for, I would say for, whether you're experiencing grief yourself or you have someone close to you that you love that is in the throes of it, being okay with them keeping the person's spirit name alive, like talking about it. Like I have always told stories and continue to. My mom's been gone 17 and a half years, right? And I still tell stories and her spirit stays alive and her, you know,
her jewelry that I wear or her, like the things that make me feel connected to her. A lot of times people want to steer away because they don't want to ask because they don't want to make you sad. And it's like part of loving someone is loving what they're carrying with them. And that means allowing that person's spirit to still be present and be spoken and their name be said and their life continue to have meaning. so, because like you, I feel like
Ritu (50:20)
I agree.
Jami De Lou (50:36)
And I think it's part of why I threw myself into my work so much because of my mom's own story and her not being able to access certain things at her career. And I felt so privileged to have the opportunity to do what I felt called to do and being able to really center access and equity and making sure that everyone did have access in different ways felt like a way to honor her in my spirit and soul. And so, and it was, it has been.
Ritu (50:58)
Yes.
Jami De Lou (51:01)
But at the same time, that reckoning of like caring for myself, caring her spirit, all of those things, like I feel like I'm really grateful because I've had, you know, really good friends along the way, my family, but even at work and community. I mean, you and I have spoken a lot about our mothers and parents and like that's it's an important part of allowing them to still be here. And I think sometimes people who haven't experienced grief.
Ritu (51:19)
No.
Jami De Lou (51:27)
It is a club that you didn't ask to join, but when you do, like your membership and what the experience is becomes like center stage for you. So if you haven't experienced it yet, part of like coming alongside someone, I would just say is make space to allow that person to still be present and don't fear tears. Like it's okay. It's just an emotional release for your body, you know? Yeah. Awesome. Well,
Ritu (51:49)
Nip me more.
Jami De Lou (51:52)
I feel like this is a great opportunity for us to segue into the next segment. Yes.
Ritu (51:56)
So can I just pause, Jamie?
402, I actually have a call right now. just read. So sorry. So what would you like to do about that? Do you have more questions or do you have what you need or is there anything else that you need to do with?
Jami De Lou (52:01)
my goodness, yes, we got so in depth. That's okay, that's okay.
Yeah,
there was two other segments I was hoping to get to, but there was so much good depth in what we were doing. And Adriel, his credit, was motioning to me, raising his hand to try to get me to wrap up. But I didn't want to lose the power in what we were saying. ⁓
Ritu (52:31)
Yeah,
I'm sorry. I'm just taking a look to see because I as it happens, something flickered over here. I'm like, shit, as in the person could be on the right now. I don't. So I don't see them online, but maybe I have to go into Zoom to see. So OK, so what would you how would you like to to.
Jami De Lou (52:37)
Yeah, that's okay.
Yay.
If you
had 30 more minutes that we could, or even 20, that we could just do a few other questions in the other segment areas, I think I can make all this work. Yeah.
Ritu (52:59)
But I to be wearing
this outfit and then I have to be don't I?
Jami De Lou (53:03)
Yeah, theoretically. I didn't know if you had a short window after you get off this call. I know it's late for you, so probably not, but I'm so sorry.
Ritu (53:10)
Sorry,
that's okay. Let me do this. Let me go and see if my person's there. If they are, I'll text you either way. ⁓ I could do 10 minutes. If the person's not joining, then I can do it till 4.30. It's 4 o'clock in Toronto, but I have to leave the office by like, like I could probably do an extra 10 minutes. Okay, so let me go figure this out and I'll text you. Okay.
Jami De Lou (53:16)
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
And then, okay, sorry about that, Rita. Thank you, okay.
Ritu (53:36)
I don't know if I'm not like am I allowed to hang up, Adriel or what should I do?
Jami De Lou (53:40)
Just click
stop, yeah, and then there you go.
Ritu (53:45)
Stop, so I shouldn't leave. Can I?
Jami De Lou (53:48)
No, let me stop. need to stop. Stop it. Yeah, there you go.
Ritu (53:50)
Okay.
Jami De Lou (53:51)
Thank you again for everything that you have shared and I am really excited for listeners to come on this journey of this conversation between us. It just is, I hold it very special in my heart. And what I'd love to do before we go is I have a segment called Before We Go. It's a quick rapid fire ⁓ and just the first thing that comes to mind, you fill in the blank at the end of the statement. Does that work? Awesome.
Ritu (54:15)
Okay? Yeah, I
love these. love, love, love watching them. And now I get to do them.
Jami De Lou (54:18)
Yeah, I know. Yay! Okay,
alright. Something that brings you joy on a hard day is...
Ritu (54:25)
Two things, one, playing with my little fur baby who I absolutely adore. And the second thing, when I'm really stressed at the end of the workday, for example, and I want to turn my energy, I jump for 15 minutes on my indoor trampoline and play a ⁓ really fun, loud song and just jump my energies, stresses away.
Jami De Lou (54:50)
love it. One thing every caregiver supporting someone with memory care should know.
Ritu (54:54)
in my humble opinion, in my view.
their essence, their spirit, their soul is still there. And even though it may seem like they don't remember, they don't know who you are, they don't know that they know, and they fully know, and they are feeling everything.
Jami De Lou (55:14)
Thank you for sharing that. The Punjabi tradition or ritual that brought the most dignity to you and to your loved one, to Mama Basin, that you tell other family members to protect, or other families to protect, I should say.
Ritu (55:26)
Two things come to mind. One, I spent a lot of quality time with my mom, not just when she was unwell, but just over time in my, our lives, physical lives together.
And I'm so grateful for that because I don't actually have a lot of regrets. Like don't have regrets that I didn't take her to this. And if anything, I wish I had done more, but I spent a lot of quality time with her, which is very Punjabi to do. And then the second thing, especially as the Alzheimer's continued to change my mom's memory, we listened a lot to music together, Punjabi music in particular. ⁓
Jami De Lou (56:04)
Hmm.
Ritu (56:06)
because she was a huge music fan and so am I. And we bonded over sound and it was really, really healing and really beautiful.
Jami De Lou (56:14)
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing those. Finish this sentence, you belong to yourself when you...
Ritu (56:20)
when I honor my truth.
Jami De Lou (56:21)
That is no, go ahead, sorry. Yeah.
Ritu (56:21)
And that is not easy to do.
But when we honor our truth, that's when we actually...
embody belonging with ourselves in the fullest essence.
Jami De Lou (56:33)
Hmm.
That is no better way to end the episode than right there. And I just can't, thank you. Thank you for, I know we would have had this conversation privately, but to share it publicly and to show up with each other and with empathy and love and care. And I shared this with you in advance, as this episode airs, it marks my mother's 78th birthday. And my mother was a...
wonderful, powerful, dynamic, funny, most wonderful laugh kind of woman, had lots of life despite all the obstacles she faced. And I've had a dear friend always said to me, on all the days of the year, you can grieve your mother however you want, but on her birthday, she must be celebrated. And I think the greatest gift my mother ever gave me was to choose my friends wisely.
and to cherish those who are true. And so I just think this conversation and this moment that we got to have and share on this episode is like the greatest way that I could honor that gift that she gave me and for us to have that for each other. And so I believe that her and Mama Vaseen are in spirit meeting each other to listen to this episode together. And that's a gift. So thank you for.
for being a friend, for being a mentor, for being somebody I can call on in so many times, and thank you for being a guest on Adaptive Human.
Ritu (58:02)
Thank you for trusting me to hold this conversation with you, for honouring me with this great blessing and privilege to mark your mom's birthday in such a special way. I hope she's dancing with the stars, which is what I say about my mama. I hope both our mothers dance with each other with the stars. Why wouldn't they?
Jami De Lou (58:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Free of any ailment that they ever felt, right? Yes.
Ritu (58:28)
this ultimate liberation. And
then I wish that the peace that they are feeling that you and I get to embody as well as daughters who did our best to honor them then and now. And so thank you for doing all of the incredible work that you're doing and creating a platform so that people can share in this meaningful way. So I'm so grateful. Bless.
Jami De Lou (58:36)
Mm.
Yes.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Jami De Lou (58:52)
I'm so grateful that you could be with us today. What I hope you heard, what I hope you heard today is what happens when someone has built real language around things most of us can only feel. Caregiving is...
Caregiving is complex. It can be long. Sometimes the duration is short. It can be unexpected. It can be so many different things. And that journey, you heard from Ritu and I, know, where it starts and what actually ends up happening for someone in that journey can be very different.
For those who are dealing with memory care and dementia with a loved one or Alzheimer's, you know it is brutal and hard and it is a way of grieving someone while they're still here. But I was so grateful for the way Ritu talked about different things that you can do to see the essence of the person while they're still here. That really resonated to me with some things that we're going through.
right now as a family. And so I just want to remind everyone that is navigating the journey of caregiving is not a personal failing if you feel like you can't show up fully in every aspect of your life. And grief is not a detour. That's something I really feel like we hit on in this episode. And leading or showing up in a workplace as a colleague while carrying
both of these things is not a reason to just perform your way through. And I say that as somebody who performed my way through for a very long time. In hindsight that I have, I can tell you I didn't always show up like the best version of myself as a leader and as a colleague in the way I wanted to because I was so fried and wired and challenged by what my nervous system was navigating.
⁓ So if you're in the middle of that and you're still caregiving and you're still grieving or you're somewhere in between in this journey, I just really want you to hear this. All we can do is make a decision and do the next best thing and keep going. That's how we move through it. You just do the next best thing and you keep going. The links to both of Ritu's books will be
and her consulting and the amazing work that she does will be in the...
What's it called? Thank you. The links for both of Ritu's books and her amazing work as a speaker and consultant will be linked in the show notes. So please go find her work, share this episode if it moved you, if you find someone that you think it might be meaningful to. And as always, I mean, that's it.
Adaptability starts with presence. So take a breath, reset, and keep practicing connection with yourself and with the people who help you take good care. Until next time.
Remember, until next time.
Until next time, I am brave, I am enough, I am brave enough, and so are you. This is Adaptive Humans. Real talk, intentional growth.
There's something weird about going like go find her work. And I just feel like we're jumping right into that. That's why it was not showing up the way.
Adaptability starts with presence. Take a deep breath.
reset and keep practicing connection with yourself first and with people who help you take good care. Until next time, I am brave. Until next time, remember I am brave, I am enough, I am brave enough and so are you.
This is Adaptive Humans. Real talk, intentional growth.
Welcome back to Adaptive Humans. I'm your host, Jamie DeLue.
Before we get started, a quick content note. We will be speaking honestly about illness, end of life, memory care, and chronic illness caregiving today. If that's a tender topic for you, please take care of yourself. Pause, skip, or come back when you're ready. Around here, we return to three anchors. How we navigate our emotions. How we adapt across differences.
and how we steady ourselves when stress or triggers show up. Because that's when life gets real.
Today we go deeper into a subject that happens when you're navigating the demands of elder caregiving while navigating a career and all of the other matters in life and everything that comes with trying to do both at once. I wanna say something personal before I introduce today's guest. Caregiving has been a part of my story since I was a teenager. My mom battled multiple sclerosis for...
almost 20 years before she passed away at 60. I was in my early 30s. That loss shaped everything about how I understand caregiving, grief, and what it means to keep showing up in life as a leader, as a parent, and as a human while carrying it all. There is so much I understand now in hindsight about the impact it had on me as a leader.
that I could not fully see at the time. More recently, I shared in season one that my father-in-law passed away suddenly, and our family was thrust into navigating caregiving needs for my mother-in-law, including memory care. So I don't come to this conversation as an observer. I come to it as someone who has known caregiving and loss for most of my life, and who's still in it.
My guest today has not just written about this, she has lived it. And she has built some of the most precise language I know for naming what that costs and what belonging to yourself, really belonging to yourself, makes possible on the other side.
Ritu Basin is the CEO of Basin Consulting, a globally recognized full service leadership and inclusion consulting firm that has worked with hundreds of world renowned organizations since its launch in 2010. She's an award winning speaker, bestselling author, global consultant, and world renowned expert in leadership, talent management, DEI, and empowerment.
Ritu has presented to hundreds of thousands of people globally and has personally coached thousands of leaders. Her bestselling books, The Authenticity Principle in 2017, and We've Got This in 2023, are linked in the show notes. Ritu is based in Toronto, Canada, and when she's not working, you'll find her traveling the world to eat, swim, hike, dance, and chill.
She's also the proud Punjabi daughter who navigated a career while caring for her mother's long-term chronic illness and battle with Alzheimer's while leading a global organization.
As we open and throughout the conversation, you'll see that Ritu and I have a tendency, because we've known each other for so long, that we can go really deep in conversation. And so we actually covered the span of all of the usual segments beyond the bio, the brave enough moment, and the just be reset by just flowing through this conversation.
not always with the most distinct starts and stops. And it really felt like this beautiful, genuine conversation where she shared, I shared, and we showed up for each other. It's a genuine heartfelt, and you might even find a few tears. So please, I hope you'll join me in welcoming Ritu to Adaptive Humans.
Jami De Lou (04:06)
Ritu, welcome to Adoptive Humans. I'm so glad you're here.
Ritu (04:10)
Aw, thank you for having me.
Jami De Lou (04:12)
⁓ Before we get started, I thought it would be worth noting to our listeners that you and I actually do know each other. And I was looking at that, trying to count back, and I'm like, it's been more than a decade that we've known each other, which feels like yesterday and probably longer sometimes. But in that time, I always think about the things that we have in common or our commitment to driving inclusive workplaces and leadership. But more importantly,
as personal humans, I think about our favorite pastime of meeting up in cities where we can be in the same city or country at the same time and have a yummy dinner and usually ends up in some really deep conversation about some particular thing that's going on in one or both of our lives. Would you agree?
Ritu (04:53)
Yeah, yes, in fact, I was going
to play a consistent theme in us getting together is yummy food and then like soul, soul defining, warming conversation. So I look forward to continuing that today.
Jami De Lou (05:10)
Thank you. I completely echo that. It was well said. And so I'm so grateful that you're really open to not only in person when it's just the two of us in a dimly lit restaurant with good food, but here on a podcast for listeners around the world, hopefully, to talk about caregiving and culture and the idea of belonging to yourself first, which when you put all those things together can sometimes be hard, right?
So I'd love for us to get into it. So we start with Beyond the Bio. Beyond the Bio is where we meet the human behind the title where authenticity really has space to show up. So for our listeners to learn more about you, what is your early life and career? You know, the work that shaped you, the books, you you focused on authenticity and belonging, but what really shaped how you came to this work?
Ritu (06:01)
Yeah, it's a great place to start because I think, know, whenever I meet someone new, I'm like, no, no, tell me your story. Like start right from the beginning. And when I say right from the beginning, I mean, like, where were your parents born? Where were they from? And tell me about your lineage, which is also very culturally appropriate given that I come from South Asian culture. And so my parents were born in India now many, many, many years ago, and they were immigrants to Canada.
And so I was born in Canada. am Canadian. That's where I live and I'm joining you from today. And they immigrated to Canada now well over 55 years ago and started their lives here. it's a defining part of my story that they come from India, which I view as being my
my ancestral lineage, my background, my cultural heritage, but that they chose to start their lives as newlyweds in Canada, which is also my culture and my background and the spirit of my identity. I had a really challenging childhood in many ways because of having my
foot in a few cultural doors. And in particular, so what I watch my parents struggle as a lot of immigrants do when they come to new places where they don't look like or sound like the people around them. And in particular, in coming from India, we're North Indians, so we're Punjabi by culture.
But my faith is called Sikhism. I am a Sikh. It's Sikh is spelled S-I-K-H. It's pronounced Sikh, not Sikh. As we learn to decolonize language and pronounce things properly, it's actually Sikh, not Sikh. So you can take that away after today. My father is part of our faith, wears a turban, has a beard, the full deal. And in fact, if you follow me on Instagram, you'll know my father's videos go viral. Mine do not, everyone, but his do. And so he's such a character.
like we just visibly stood out in then Canada, let alone now. And so I watched my parents struggle in all the ways, but I also struggled. And I struggled in a few ways. I struggled because I was being raised in a household where my parents were very committed to teaching us about Indian culture, but they also wanted us to embrace a Canadian culture, a Canadiana.
the levers on be more Canadian or be more Indian were never clear. And so I struggled a lot with my identity. But on top of that, I experienced ⁓ relentless bullying from about the age of 11. And the bullying was intersectional in that it was racist first and foremost, but it also intersected with the fact that I was a really sassy, smart,
⁓ feisty young girl and there was no room for that back in the 80s and 90s. And if we think there's no room for it now, it was way worse then. And then I would say that the bullying was also classist or elitist because my parents essentially moved us from like an inner city, very multicultural working class neighborhood, very diverse, lots of immigrants to a
far more affluent neighbourhood outside in the suburbs of Toronto. And it was a massive financial stretch for them to do that. It was a very homogeneous neighbourhood, really wasp. And I ⁓ stuck out both visibly, but also we were climbing the financial ladder. And so I just didn't have class privilege like the kids around me. And they reminded me of that at every turn. So from a young age, I really struggled to belong.
and in fact I learned from a young age that I shouldn't be different, I should try to push down my differences and be like everyone else. I brought that spirit with me into my adulthood when I chose to join one of most high conforming professions out there by choosing to become a lawyer, which I did because I wanted to fight for social justice, but really I ended up working in the towers and the corporate towers for many many years. I still have my client base is in the towers, continues to be the case.
And I found that the messages around conformity were never as pronounced as the bullying. Like it was never as direct as the bullying, but the struggle to feel like I belonged and see myself represented and to actually just exhale and be who I am. I really struggled with that in working in the corporate world. And ultimately I spent 10 years in the legal profession working in law firm culture and
But 15 years ago, I now over 15 years ago, I left my career identity as an employee and I started my own business. became an entrepreneur when I launched my leadership and inclusion and belonging consulting firm. And, you know, in making that decision and then I'll wind down because I feel like I've already said so much. I did it for several reasons, but now I deeply understand that
One of the reasons I did this spiritually was so that I could find myself and I could finally stand in my power and deeply understanding how to be more of who I am at my core. And let me just say that it continues to be a journey. I feel like I am so much more grounded and rooted than I was 15 years ago.
But even in this moment of dramatic change in the world and therefore in my life around how I work and live, I'm continuing to peel layers of the onion back around who I am and how I want to live. And it gets a constant check in for me around belonging. And so I would say,
Jami De Lou (12:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Ritu (12:07)
My childhood, all of my roots, my ancestors, all of this has a profound impact on who I am today.
Jami De Lou (12:15)
Yeah, thank you for sharing all of that. think a lot of times people underestimate how much their origin story really plays into who they are, how they show up, the kind of work they do, what they advocate for, all those kinds of things, right? And I mean, I think about my own story and thinking about the ways in wanting to solve for being able to belong.
despite the fact that I walk with certain privileges as a white woman doing this work that we share in common, but also just in my own journey. And so a lot of things, sometimes things are seen visibly that we know. Someone might feel a gap or, you for me, I was born to a single mom in the seventies and how ostracizing that was, and even how we were cast off from my mom's family initially and then brought back into the fold and.
So that legitimacy and different things about that dynamic, there's really fundamental things in your origin story and that can happen throughout your life that feed into how we navigate the world and culture and all those different layers of and walking between the place. I think about that idea of your parents wanting so much more for you and your siblings to have a better life too and moving to the suburbs and.
Ritu (13:13)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (13:29)
probably thinking better schools, right? Where there's always those better words. But there's trade-offs and sacrifices that in the time of doing that, you can't always know as parents, right? You just are doing the absolute best you can. And as kids, we sort of grow up through these different dynamics that happen in our stories. And I think making space to be able to talk about that is important because I think what you've just shared is where you are today is understanding that the books you've written and the work you've done has
turned inward for your own growth and healing and purpose beyond all the amazing things you do for other people. And I think, I don't know that everyone gets to do that through their work. That's an amazing part of the journey, right?
Ritu (14:10)
Yeah, you know, I think that's such an interesting insight. I'm sure when I am in my 70s or 80s, God willing, that I will be able to make better sense of it and greater sense of it. Like, why did I choose certain decisions or how those decisions have led me to be where I am? But I would say that one thing does strike me that
there are the decisions that we make cognitively, like through our rational mind, through our conscious awareness. And I'm increasingly seeing that there are decisions that our inner knowing, I call it core wisdom from my book, We've Got This, which is about belonging, but that our inner knowing holds. And that in fact, before our analytical mind has even
Jami De Lou (14:58)
You
Ritu (15:04)
caught up with it or our conscious awareness has clocked it, it's like our inner knowing, our spiritual knowing, our soulful knowing, our embodied knowing already knows that this is what we should do or this is why we're doing what we're doing. I think about, for example, in writing both my books, the first book, The Authenticity Principle, I wrote because, on the surface, because I thought at the time workplaces needed more
direction and guidance on how to actually work, live and lead with this spirit of authenticity, authentic leadership. That's, and I also on a personal note, personal professional note was like, I've been a speaker for years, but I don't have a book. All the other speakers have books. I should get it. I should write a book. I, I, was like within a few years where I'm like, my God, I didn't write the book for the world. I wrote the book for my soul and, and
because I've written this book, I'm actually learning to live more authentically. And of course, wouldn't you know what the exact same thing happened with my second book, We've Got This, which again is about belonging. I was like, I'm going to talk about how do we create and claim greater belonging for ourselves and for others, especially knowing how hard life can be and why it's so important to develop inner wisdom and all that. But as I was writing, I'm like, this is actually healing me.
And I'm feeling greater belonging than ever before. But in particular, I'm feeling greater belonging to myself. I now see at the age of 50, which is bananas to begin with, because I used to think 50 was so old, and now I'm 50. And I'm like, my god. Actually, it's not at all. And we're so young. And simultaneously, I'm like, holy shit, that's so old. And it's still so young all at the same time.
Jami De Lou (16:37)
you
We're so young.
Ritu (16:51)
But that to belong to myself is the most important thing. That every day when I am mindfully bringing awareness to what I'm saying to myself in my head, to myself, I'm hearing the self-logging and the constant pressure I put on myself to do more and achieve more and carry more and it's just never enough or the berating that I do towards myself in my head. And I'm hearing that and I'm like,
that behavior is not rooted in belonging to myself. And where is that voice coming from and how does it hurt me and what can I do about it? And so I am starting to understand more and more that nothing is as it seems on the surface. There's all kinds of inner wisdom, ancestral, spiritual, cosmic, mystic.
Jami De Lou (17:23)
you
Ritu (17:45)
underpinnings to why we do what do.
Jami De Lou (17:46)
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think that Shonda Rhimes and her year of yes, my favorite chapter she has is talks about the FOD, the first only different concept when you're the first to have to, and I think there's a lot of what you were just describing, like that over-functioning, the striving, like gets amplified when you're the first because there was no like yellow brick road paved for you in front of you. Like you were literally laying the, you know, the bricks as you were walking.
Ritu (17:56)
Yes.
Jami De Lou (18:16)
to find your way down this road, which makes it a little bit more complicated and hard. And I think coming to that place to belong to yourself instead of striving for how you belong somewhere else and seeking an outward, feel like it almost like, I feel like Gen Z is starting to figure out how to do that younger, but that was not generationally something that was very accessible for us as Gen Xers, right? We like, if you were gonna make it, you had to just keep striving and we were, know, and everyone, like all the,
Ritu (18:39)
Agree.
Jami De Lou (18:46)
the things that people say about boomers, laugh sometimes because I'm like, you everyone goes from boomers to millennials and just skips us as Gen Xers, which we could do a whole other podcast episode on probably, but it is that notion of striving and pushing towards something. And there's nothing wrong with wanting career or success or love or life, whatever you're pursuing. But when you're doing it...
outwardly and not at peace inwardly. Sometimes you don't even know you're not at peace until the reckoning kind of happens. And I think as we progress in the episode, I think we'll talk a little bit more about how that happens. But I think that belonging to yourself, and I do think there's an element as we segue into talking about caregiving and loss, reckoning with those things can both send you into overdrive in things.
But then there's also a reckoning at some point where you kind of face it and ideally come to terms with it in a different way that you start to nurture yourself inwardly, hopefully more afterwards if you're not doing it in the midst of it, because in the midst of it, it can feel hard. But I do think that sense of like, am I still, I'm still here, how do I make purpose out of that, right? When you think about the role of caregiving.
Ritu (19:46)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love that you use the word reckoning because I would say that I, I that word resonates with me, but also I used a word recently on on social media on LinkedIn, Instagram that reminds me of the experience of having a reckoning, which is a life quake. And I had a life quake moment. Now
Jami De Lou (20:17)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (20:21)
two years ago when my mother passed away and she transitioned from physical body. And I didn't know that it would be a life reckoning moment. I didn't anticipate that it would be a life quake, but it was. And there was my caregiving journey beforehand and then she passed. And then the chapter that started afterwards has literally changed my life.
And I...
I thought that my mom would pass and that I would be sad and upset and that I would carry my grief into my life knowing that my life would change but I would carry on with my life being my life in same pattern, structures, schedule, that type of thing. I didn't anticipate that actually what would happen as a life quake and everything would change. Like my life is so different than it was two years ago.
I am so different than who I was two years ago. so I love that you said reckoning, because yes, the reckoning happened that has enabled me to belong more to myself than ever before. And by the way, two years ago was just after my second book on belonging came out. And I was already experiencing this greater sense of, wow, I'm literally swimming a land of talking about belonging nonstop, which
for me constantly causes me to self-reflect and to be with my experience with something. And I didn't anticipate that the life quake and my journey to belong would be like, connected.
Jami De Lou (21:49)
Hmm.
Yeah. I'm curious, how did you navigate growing your business and what you do as a global leader while simultaneously your mom's caregiving needs started to increase? Could you talk a little bit about that?
Ritu (22:15)
Yeah, and let me give a little bit of background because I know you know a lot about my caregiving journey, but others may not. I talk a lot about it and we've got this, but as I was caregiving, I was writing the book. so just by way of background, ⁓ my mother, right around my age now, or just a few years older, in her early 50s, was diagnosed with severe rheumatoid arthritis, which is an autoimmune disease.
Jami De Lou (22:16)
Yeah.
Ritu (22:41)
And so my caregiving journey began in my 20s. And I didn't know at that moment that I was stepping into a caregiving role or function. I don't think any of us did in my family, other than my dad, I guess my dad knew. But I'm the eldest ⁓ in a Punjabi household, which makes me the third parent. But very much I stepped into that role.
as a caregiver, like I was a caregiver for my mom for over 20 years, essentially. And it first started with the rheumatoid arthritis and the rheumatoid arthritis as an autoimmune disease created all kinds of other complications. So there was just always something that my mom was struggling with as it relates to her physical health, her mental health, spiritual health, all of it. ⁓ And she was a really sassy, vibrant, feisty
Jami De Lou (23:26)
you
Ritu (23:31)
I'm a lot like her in many, many ways, which is a beautiful thing. And it makes me really emotional because so many times as I'm speaking or I'm laughing or I'm just doing whatever I'm doing, I'm like, I literally feel my mother's energy coming out of me because we're very, very alike in our mannerisms. And so one day essentially she couldn't get out of bed.
and she couldn't get out of bed for almost a year because of the rheumatoid. And that's when her journey started. She became disabled in her early 50s, did not return back to work. She was a teacher. from a very young age, like in my 20s, I constantly worried about getting a phone call that she had passed or she had transitioned. So the fear of her passing, her mortality was just always with me over time.
She did her best to live a good, healthy life as much as possible while living with a severe autoimmune disease. And we did our best to fill her life with joy and make her life be as painless as possible as she navigated the rheumatoid. And then she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, which was in her early 70s. Alzheimer's, as you may know, is also an autoimmune disease. It is a terminal autoimmune.
Jami De Lou (24:22)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (24:42)
mental illness and ⁓ it is the only terminal form of dementia. is as severe and as ugly and as horrible as we hear about it being. And then to live through caregiving for someone you love deeply who is living with Alzheimer's is extremely challenging because over time
they change and they change and they change. And while they are with you in physical body, their essence and their spirit is still there. They're just different and they're changing. so there's a lot of grief that we experience as caregivers when it comes to Alzheimer's while your beloved is still with you. And in fact, I didn't know this then I now know or along the journey while she was still alive. I found out through like...
attending caregiver support groups and reading and all that. And my sister, who is a massive resource, she's in the healthcare area. And so she knows a lot and it really was a pillar of support for her family. It's called ambiguous loss, where your beloved is still with you, but they're different. And so you're grieving who they were while they're still with you. so I
her Alzheimer's moved from early stages of Alzheimer's to the mid stages into the severe stages, like the bad and the ugly stages of Alzheimer's, through the pandemic. And so actually the pandemic would have been the catalyst event that amplified or caused more changes and shifts, probably because of the disruption in her routine and less social interaction. And so,
Jami De Lou (26:16)
Yeah.
Ritu (26:21)
To say that the pandemic years or the three, four years of the pandemic from 2020 to 2024, when she passed in February, those four years were the hardest years of my life. I was navigating as a business owner, having to constantly pivot and shift, pivot shift as it relates to the business and caring for my employees and my clients and all that, trying to earn income.
George Floyd was murdered in May of 2020 and as someone who is really passionate about anti-racism, I felt very spiritually attached to being an advocate at the time while I was caregiving. And we at some point made the very difficult decision as an Indian family to transition my mom from living with my father with private support caregivers coming in like PSW's personal support workers.
coming in, it still wasn't enough to moving her into a nursing home, which culturally is not what we do in my culture. Like that's not the jam, that's not what we do, but we had to, and that was extremely challenging. But because we moved her into a care home and culturally didn't feel right, we made a commitment as family members that we would make sure that she was rarely alone.
Jami De Lou (27:21)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (27:39)
⁓ except for after like in the evening. So like for 7, 8 p.m. onwards, 6, 7, 8 onwards, she would be alone for the evening through the night. But in the morning, someone would be with her. And so financially, it meant us pooling resources to hire a personal support worker who went in almost every day on the days that are beautiful. addition to our family who navigated this journey with us, it's emotional because I love
Jami De Lou (28:02)
Yeah.
Ritu (28:04)
her name, her name is Tessa. love Tessa so much. On days Tessa didn't go in, which was like once or twice a week, one of us would go in. So I think like maybe five times over two years ish my mom was ever alone. And like I said, didn't have someone come in to spend time with her. That was the only way we could do it. Culturally, it felt okay to do. But
Along that journey, we transitioned her into palliative care. We thought that she would pass, ⁓ but she was in palliative for two years. during that palliative period, I was running the business, working in the post George Floyd murder era of working 80 hours a week, sometimes 100 hours a week, trying to navigate and going to see my mom, which is an hour drive.
one way and an hour drive back, twice a week. And then on top of that, I wrote my second book and to say, like, even as I say this now, I'm like, what was I doing? Like what was I even thinking? How did I pull that off? How did I manage that? I do not know. I don't understand. That said, with the benefit of hindsight, and actually, even as I say this to you, as I'm sharing this, I'm like, no effing wonder.
Jami De Lou (29:04)
Yeah.
Ritu (29:19)
I had a life quake moment and a reckoning moment. When my mom passed in February of 2024 on Valentine's Day, a day of love commercially, but now a very important day in our lives, I literally couldn't get out of bed for weeks. And it was the first time in my entire adulthood
of working for almost 25 years, 60, 80, 100 hour weeks, because I used to be a lawyer and then I worked on In the Towers and then I started my business and then worked with all the clients in the towers. I, for the first time, I gave myself empathy and permission to not work and not do anything but grieve. And so I threw myself into the grieving journey.
Jami De Lou (30:05)
Yeah.
Ritu (30:11)
because what I realized is, and this goes back to your question, and this is probably the longest answer I've ever given to a question, that I now understand, my nervous system was in a form of freeze, that I was almost robotic in trying to manage everything that was happening in my life. And I didn't have bandwidth or space to actually unravel.
Jami De Lou (30:28)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ritu (30:35)
and let go because her care became the central. Her care and keeping my business running were the two pillars. And it wasn't until she transitioned that I could finally let go of it all, including running the business and just being like, now I'm going to come undone. And I did come undone. I came fully undone.
Jami De Lou (30:58)
Yeah. Thank you for sharing all of that. It's gonna help more people than you know, to be honest, but I also like, I hold that with you. And I realized for as long as we've known each other, there's pieces of the story that I knew, but not all of it in the ways. And it's so interesting the parallels and connections between things that I see in both of us where...
For me, my mom was diagnosed with MS when I was a teenager. And so when you talked about being afraid of that call and living constantly in fear, and my mom was hell bent that I would not stop my life for her. Going off to college, going off to grad school, I would come home and then figure out another pivot and move to some other part of the country. And every time she was like saying goodbye is so hard, but she was hell bent to give me wings.
Ritu (31:27)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (31:47)
In some, I always thought, a gift she gave me because my mom passed, I was only 32 and she was 60. So I was caregiving through teens, college, early marriage, family, like all these things. And then when her care became acute and other things and flying back and forth between halfway between the country and California where she was. But I just know that overdrive. And it was interesting when she passed.
I was still young, my brain, I learned this after, like in my early 30s, your brain is still finishing forming, right? So it was working with a therapist that I didn't initially seek out grief therapy, because I was like, I think I came home, I remember coming home, and I remember I had been away from work. I got on a plane a week after my mom died and flew to another city, and for the remainder of that fall,
Every other week I was in a different country handling things for work. And I would break down in between, but I would show up and like just keep showing up. And all of this muscle memory like taught me how to keep going. And it was that survival that I didn't learn to turn off until the reckoning I had almost six years ago now, where I started to realize I had been in chronic burnout for a significant period of time.
Ritu (33:04)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (33:07)
but just kept going because everyone needed me and I didn't know how to turn it off. I physically and emotionally, and my mind, body, my nervous system, my connection, didn't know. So if someone at work asked me for one more thing, I said, yes. If my kids, my family, my whoever around me needed one more thing, I was going to show up. And it can be really difficult, think, especially if your caregiving story with a family member has a longevity and legs.
before it turns to something more terminal, right? But when you're living in that fear, your nervous system is getting dysregulated. And if you don't understand how your nervous system works, which I didn't at that time, and I think there's a lot more information accessible now around your brain and your body and the connection and mindfulness and all these things, but I do think it can show up in different ways until your body and mind just can't anymore.
I feel like us having this conversation, I hope some of what we share, both of us, helps someone else that maybe doesn't have to wait till that breaking point. But if you do, also there's no judgment that it took to the breaking point because that's life sometimes, right?
Ritu (34:05)
No.
So.
Yeah, you know, it's so interesting because I, while I was caregiving, like there was a two year period, like from 2022 to 2024, where once my mom moved into palliative, which was early 2022, where, but even prior to that 2021, anyhow, these, the three years, three, four years of the pandemic, when all of this was happening.
I thought I was a really well-resourced person and I was doing all the things. So I have studied trauma. I have a very good understanding of how the nervous system works. I knew it before the pandemic, how the nervous system works. And so I wasn't confused. I knew, I'm like, are you in freeze? Are you feeling freezy? And I'm like, no, because I'm crying and I can access my emotions and feelings. But I think on a macro level, my system was in freeze.
Jami De Lou (34:47)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (35:05)
And
I was having moments of being connected and being embodied, but global, like global high activation is what we would call it in the trauma world that I have studied. I was doing therapy and I was spending time with beloveds and friends and I was working out the best I could. And so I was doing things here and there, which I think gave me the illusion of I'm doing my best to care for myself.
That said, I was constantly stressed. I was like one thread away from unraveling any given moment, but even when the thread was being pulled, I'm like, I can't, I still got to keep it together because we need to take care of, we have to contact the home for this and then we got to deal with this with the Ministry of Health and then we got to deal with this with making sure that someone goes to see her for the weekend because thus I can't go in and then.
Jami De Lou (35:37)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (36:00)
and then the business this, and then I'm trying to be a good spouse and a good friend and a daughter, and then supporting my dad and like being a bit strong for my dad. And so I think I did the best I could and actually my best was really good. And even in the moment, I would just constantly say to myself, I'm doing my best, I'm doing my best and your best is really good. And so I did what I had to do.
for those two years, three years, for the 25 years of caregiving. I did the best I could and my best was really good. And I honored my mother in all of the ways that a Punjabi daughter would and should and it felt right to do. I think what I got though, once she passed,
And when I say I got this, I got this not only because she physically transitioned, but also I feel like spiritually in her transitioning, she said to my soul, it's your turn now. Now I get to take care of you. And I think that what I have been experiencing for the last few years, I see you getting emotional too, is I feel like...
Jami De Lou (37:13)
Mm-hmm
Ritu (37:17)
she's spiritually caring for me now. Because what did ultimately happen, and people had told me this would happen, because I talked to, I didn't have, my mother passed away before a lot of my friends' parents did. You're one of the few exceptions. And, but what my few friends had told me, and I had read this online, because I tried my best to plug into things more once I knew the end was, her transition was coming to, at a physical body, her passing, is that,
Jami De Lou (37:30)
Yeah.
Ritu (37:43)
As a caregiver, when the person actually transitions, like you feel lighter and you feel lighter literally because you're no longer having to watch them be in pain and struggle. And that was probably one of the hardest things for me. Watching her change and knowing that her essence and spirit, which was so vibrant and dynamic and just magnanimous, would not want to be in this state.
Jami De Lou (37:48)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (38:10)
that I was praying for mercy, like being like, okay, this is enough, like, let's pull her out of this struggle because this is just not, it's so hard to watch and I know her soul would not want this. So there's a lightness that comes with that. There is a massive lightness that comes with not having the cloud of how is she today? How is she today? Is she okay? Is today gonna be the day that I get the call? Is it gonna be today? Is it tomorrow? Like there's a lightness that comes with that because that's released into the world.
there's literally a time lightness. gives them that suddenly I had way more time and bandwidth to do other things and care for myself and just literally to turn to myself. And then there was also a lightness that for me that came with starting to realize that I'm still in a relationship with my mom, that while she is...
Jami De Lou (38:59)
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (39:02)
not here in physical body, which by the way, some of the language I've used today, some of you may have clocked it, like it's deliberate because both from my faith, ⁓ Sikhism and my own personal belief in spirituality that the physical body is so important because it's the home that carries our soul and our essence in this lifetime, but it is a physical body. Like there were more than just physical body in my view that
Jami De Lou (39:26)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (39:30)
I didn't realize that she would transition in physical body, but I'd still be in a relationship with her and I would still be able to connect with her. I didn't anticipate that. Like I had heard people would say that I feel my mom's energy or I feel my friend's energy or whatever. And I was like, that sounds lovely. I don't know what you mean, but I have no idea what you mean, rock on, but sounds nice. But now I'm living it. And there's a little miss that comes with that too, that it's like.
Jami De Lou (39:35)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ritu (39:56)
She's still here. She's like literally when I hear myself laugh sometimes or two months after she passed, I think this was a gift that she brought into my life. We had a beautiful, adorable fur baby join us. His name is Buncey, Buncey Paseen. He's an eight pound toy poodle. And if you're like, is he cute? You should check out my Instagram page. He's the cutest. He's so cute. He's the cutest. And all the time when I'm with him, I giggle and I laugh and I feel my mom.
Jami De Lou (40:09)
Mm-hmm.
He's very cute.
Yeah.
Ritu (40:25)
And I
wonder to myself, is this what she was like with me when I was little? Anyhow, it, the lightness that comes with the transition is, well, it changed my life because it gave me an opportunity for the first time ever to finally let go of
V.
responsibility I felt to care give for her and to finally actually take care of myself. Put all of my attention onto myself. And then you use the word burnout, and which I am grateful for because one of the very first things that happened to me in my life, quick moment after my mom transitioned, is that I finally admitted to myself.
Jami De Lou (40:58)
Yeah.
Ritu (41:15)
and then started saying to the world that I have clinical burnout. I had never talked about it before. I knew I had burnout. I had it during the pandemic. We teach about burnout at my leadership firm. And I remember as my sister was teaching about it, I was like, I have that, but I can't admit it because if I admit it, I'm going to have to stop working and I can't stop working. And there's too much shit going on. have to keep going. But now I'm like, no, I have burnout. And it is extremely challenging to heal when you are still working, which I am.
Jami De Lou (41:19)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ritu (41:42)
although significantly less now for many reasons, including wanting to heal the burnout. But what I realized is caregiving can and does cause or feed into burnout. And it did for me.
Jami De Lou (41:54)
Yeah, yes.
Yeah, absolutely. think about, you know, the irony is this conversation was supposed to happen in October for us. You were scheduled to have this conversation about caregiving in my mind wrapped around a totally different thing. Well, similar conversation, but it's interesting the anchoring. My father-in-law happened to pass the weekend, the Saturday before we were scheduled to have this and...
Ritu (42:05)
Yeah.
Jami De Lou (42:21)
It was interesting because if I anchor back to losing my mom and the journey and, but the final reckoning of understanding burnout and really doing work to heal, put me in a different position when he died suddenly and we were very quickly gonna have to get to Panama, navigating being in another country, realizing how much my mother-in-law's needs had accelerated. And my father-in-law was trying to do it all despite us trying to help him. And the things of being
across countries between family. But what was interesting, I was thinking about as you were talking that spiritual, like people being with you, I had been training for a 10K walking. Let's just be honest, I wasn't running because my joints don't do that anymore. But I trained for this 10K really in preparation for a 10K I was supposed to do in the new year. And it was a local race and I had signed up. And so it was the morning after my father-in-law had passed.
I basically was like, I really think I should still do this. And my husband, of course, was super supportive. Youngest daughter was like, we're going to come out and cheer you on. And so I went out and did this race. And what was so interesting, and I just have to share this because I feel like you'll appreciate it, but I hope listeners will, is when I was out on the race course, I was literally the slowest walker because most people were running the race. I came in as the last 10K finisher of the race.
There was half marathoners finishing before me, but I was on this route, running my own race, or literally walking my own race, where I just felt this sense and this presence. over the last five years, I have ⁓ lost significant elders in my life, people who served as surrogate mothers, surrogate fathers to me, all of these things culminating with my father-in-law the day before, who I was very, very close with and still like,
just miss him terribly. But it was on this route and ⁓ my husband and daughter were very sweet and they would pop up on different parts of the route to cheer me on, whatever. But I got to this part, Ritu, where there was a tunnel. And as I was walking through the tunnel, it's like I could feel the spirit of this league of extraordinary elders. And I just could feel them assembled. And I was in this tunnel by myself and it was like really echoey. And I just started like...
Ritu (44:31)
you
I got.
Jami De Lou (44:40)
thank you, like thank you, like literally hollering out thank you because in the core of my being, all I kept thinking was I'm here because every single one of you have poured into me. Like my Saturday mornings were chats with my father-in-law. That was our way of being connected. It was our weekly time. And, you know, he passed on a Saturday morning and all these things 24 hours later, but it was just this beautiful experience of feeling like I was carrying all of them, not in a way that felt
heavy like when they were ill or sick, but in this light spirited way of you all helped me become who I am today. And I did the work to choose to heal. And I can feel that connection in a deeper way that I don't think I got to connect with in the same way when the burnout was just, when you're fried and wired, like you're just, it's hard to really connect with that spiritually. so,
It was such a beautiful thing when I crossed the finish line because I felt like I was just carrying everything with me, you know? It was really powerful. So I just wanted to share that because I feel like there's these moments of connection that I absolutely agree that people, they stay with us. But I do think that that access to that connection, it does help when we are finding space to allow ourselves to thrive in different ways. We're able to kind of see and feel the connection. I feel like
in ways that feel uplifting and light that doesn't necessarily feel as heavy as sometimes the grief can feel heavy and weighted. Like it can feel light. And I think no one talks about grief as heavy, grief, are moments, those little moments of connection that just feel so invigorating and light and beautiful, even if they include tears and release in that way, that can be really nice.
Ritu (46:09)
Yeah.
Yeah, one of the things I would say for people tuning in that if you're on your own journey with grief or caregiving and you're wondering
Jami De Lou (46:37)
Yeah.
Ritu (46:40)
what might be helpful or what did we do that was helpful? Like if someone were to say to me, Ritu, what did you do that was helpful after, in the context of caregiving for your mom, but, and also after her passing, I would say to you, I did not run away from the grief. Like I rolled around in the grief. I continue to roll around the grief. I sit in the grief. When I let the grief out of my physical body, like I literally, ⁓
blood curdling, howling, wailing cry comes out of me. And I can tell that I am releasing the pain I hold based on my grief in this lived life for my mom, everything else, but also the grief I carry of my ancestors and the world, the interconnectedness. so, and what's beautiful about letting it out and
Jami De Lou (47:26)
Yeah.
Ritu (47:33)
and being with the grief and like fully experiencing it in all the ways is that we do release it. And as we do, it creates capacity for more of that lightness that you're talking about and that I am feeling increasingly. And I remember right around the time my mom passed, was just after as it happens, I came across a video of Tyler Perry talking to Oprah about grief. And he said,
Jami De Lou (47:44)
Yeah.
Ritu (47:59)
grief will wait for you. And I thought it was such a powerful insight because it is true in my opinion, that grief will wait for you. Like we can try to work it away, we can try to drink it away, we can try to dance it away, we can try to shop it away, watch TV it away or whatever. Like basically distract ourselves from it, but it will wait. And I was like, I'm not gonna have it wait and then hit me 20 years from now, I'm gonna be with it now. And I'm so glad that I did because
Jami De Lou (48:01)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Ritu (48:28)
I don't think that I would be having the full extent of this incredible experience with greater lightness and spirituality and the cosmic mystic world and greater belonging to myself and being more embodied had I not been with the grief. And so for me, grief, caregiving, elder care has been such a teacher.
Jami De Lou (48:44)
Yeah.
Ritu (48:57)
is such a humbling, humbling teacher. And while it is by far one of the most painful things I've ever experienced, and those few years I talked about in the pandemic were by far the hardest years of my life, and they sucked, I am better for it.
Jami De Lou (49:17)
Yeah, yeah. I think you're so right that the reckoning, it's gonna, to deal with it and to allow the grief to have space. And I think the thing that I always tell people is yes, different significant days and anniversaries can hit you hard, but the random Tuesday grief, ooh, sometimes the random Tuesday grief is harder. And... ⁓
Ritu (49:38)
Gosh.
Jami De Lou (49:38)
I think the
other thing is for, I would say for, whether you're experiencing grief yourself or you have someone close to you that you love that is in the throes of it, being okay with them keeping the person's spirit name alive, like talking about it. Like I have always told stories and continue to. My mom's been gone 17 and a half years, right? And I still tell stories and her spirit stays alive and her, you know,
her jewelry that I wear or her, like the things that make me feel connected to her. A lot of times people want to steer away because they don't want to ask because they don't want to make you sad. And it's like part of loving someone is loving what they're carrying with them. And that means allowing that person's spirit to still be present and be spoken and their name be said and their life continue to have meaning. so, because like you, I feel like
Ritu (50:20)
I agree.
Jami De Lou (50:36)
And I think it's part of why I threw myself into my work so much because of my mom's own story and her not being able to access certain things at her career. And I felt so privileged to have the opportunity to do what I felt called to do and being able to really center access and equity and making sure that everyone did have access in different ways felt like a way to honor her in my spirit and soul. And so, and it was, it has been.
Ritu (50:58)
Yes.
Jami De Lou (51:01)
But at the same time, that reckoning of like caring for myself, caring her spirit, all of those things, like I feel like I'm really grateful because I've had, you know, really good friends along the way, my family, but even at work and community. I mean, you and I have spoken a lot about our mothers and parents and like that's it's an important part of allowing them to still be here. And I think sometimes people who haven't experienced grief.
Ritu (51:19)
No.
Jami De Lou (51:27)
It is a club that you didn't ask to join, but when you do, like your membership and what the experience is becomes like center stage for you. So if you haven't experienced it yet, part of like coming alongside someone, I would just say is make space to allow that person to still be present and don't fear tears. Like it's okay. It's just an emotional release for your body, you know? Yeah. Awesome. Well,
Ritu (51:49)
Nip me more.
Jami De Lou (51:52)
I feel like this is a great opportunity for us to segue into the next segment. Yes.
Ritu (51:56)
So can I just pause, Jamie?
402, I actually have a call right now. just read. So sorry. So what would you like to do about that? Do you have more questions or do you have what you need or is there anything else that you need to do with?
Jami De Lou (52:01)
my goodness, yes, we got so in depth. That's okay, that's okay.
Yeah,
there was two other segments I was hoping to get to, but there was so much good depth in what we were doing. And Adriel, his credit, was motioning to me, raising his hand to try to get me to wrap up. But I didn't want to lose the power in what we were saying. ⁓
Ritu (52:31)
Yeah,
I'm sorry. I'm just taking a look to see because I as it happens, something flickered over here. I'm like, shit, as in the person could be on the right now. I don't. So I don't see them online, but maybe I have to go into Zoom to see. So OK, so what would you how would you like to to.
Jami De Lou (52:37)
Yeah, that's okay.
Yay.
If you
had 30 more minutes that we could, or even 20, that we could just do a few other questions in the other segment areas, I think I can make all this work. Yeah.
Ritu (52:59)
But I to be wearing
this outfit and then I have to be don't I?
Jami De Lou (53:03)
Yeah, theoretically. I didn't know if you had a short window after you get off this call. I know it's late for you, so probably not, but I'm so sorry.
Ritu (53:10)
Sorry,
that's okay. Let me do this. Let me go and see if my person's there. If they are, I'll text you either way. ⁓ I could do 10 minutes. If the person's not joining, then I can do it till 4.30. It's 4 o'clock in Toronto, but I have to leave the office by like, like I could probably do an extra 10 minutes. Okay, so let me go figure this out and I'll text you. Okay.
Jami De Lou (53:16)
Okay. Okay. Okay.
Okay. Okay. Okay.
And then, okay, sorry about that, Rita. Thank you, okay.
Ritu (53:36)
I don't know if I'm not like am I allowed to hang up, Adriel or what should I do?
Jami De Lou (53:40)
Just click
stop, yeah, and then there you go.
Ritu (53:45)
Stop, so I shouldn't leave. Can I?
Jami De Lou (53:48)
No, let me stop. need to stop. Stop it. Yeah, there you go.
Ritu (53:50)
Okay.
Jami De Lou (53:51)
Thank you again for everything that you have shared and I am really excited for listeners to come on this journey of this conversation between us. It just is, I hold it very special in my heart. And what I'd love to do before we go is I have a segment called Before We Go. It's a quick rapid fire ⁓ and just the first thing that comes to mind, you fill in the blank at the end of the statement. Does that work? Awesome.
Ritu (54:15)
Okay? Yeah, I
love these. love, love, love watching them. And now I get to do them.
Jami De Lou (54:18)
Yeah, I know. Yay! Okay,
alright. Something that brings you joy on a hard day is...
Ritu (54:25)
Two things, one, playing with my little fur baby who I absolutely adore. And the second thing, when I'm really stressed at the end of the workday, for example, and I want to turn my energy, I jump for 15 minutes on my indoor trampoline and play a ⁓ really fun, loud song and just jump my energies, stresses away.
Jami De Lou (54:50)
love it. One thing every caregiver supporting someone with memory care should know.
Ritu (54:54)
in my humble opinion, in my view.
their essence, their spirit, their soul is still there. And even though it may seem like they don't remember, they don't know who you are, they don't know that they know, and they fully know, and they are feeling everything.
Jami De Lou (55:14)
Thank you for sharing that. The Punjabi tradition or ritual that brought the most dignity to you and to your loved one, to Mama Basin, that you tell other family members to protect, or other families to protect, I should say.
Ritu (55:26)
Two things come to mind. One, I spent a lot of quality time with my mom, not just when she was unwell, but just over time in my, our lives, physical lives together.
And I'm so grateful for that because I don't actually have a lot of regrets. Like don't have regrets that I didn't take her to this. And if anything, I wish I had done more, but I spent a lot of quality time with her, which is very Punjabi to do. And then the second thing, especially as the Alzheimer's continued to change my mom's memory, we listened a lot to music together, Punjabi music in particular. ⁓
Jami De Lou (56:04)
Hmm.
Ritu (56:06)
because she was a huge music fan and so am I. And we bonded over sound and it was really, really healing and really beautiful.
Jami De Lou (56:14)
That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing those. Finish this sentence, you belong to yourself when you...
Ritu (56:20)
when I honor my truth.
Jami De Lou (56:21)
That is no, go ahead, sorry. Yeah.
Ritu (56:21)
And that is not easy to do.
But when we honor our truth, that's when we actually...
embody belonging with ourselves in the fullest essence.
Jami De Lou (56:33)
Hmm.
That is no better way to end the episode than right there. And I just can't, thank you. Thank you for, I know we would have had this conversation privately, but to share it publicly and to show up with each other and with empathy and love and care. And I shared this with you in advance, as this episode airs, it marks my mother's 78th birthday. And my mother was a...
wonderful, powerful, dynamic, funny, most wonderful laugh kind of woman, had lots of life despite all the obstacles she faced. And I've had a dear friend always said to me, on all the days of the year, you can grieve your mother however you want, but on her birthday, she must be celebrated. And I think the greatest gift my mother ever gave me was to choose my friends wisely.
and to cherish those who are true. And so I just think this conversation and this moment that we got to have and share on this episode is like the greatest way that I could honor that gift that she gave me and for us to have that for each other. And so I believe that her and Mama Vaseen are in spirit meeting each other to listen to this episode together. And that's a gift. So thank you for.
for being a friend, for being a mentor, for being somebody I can call on in so many times, and thank you for being a guest on Adaptive Human.
Ritu (58:02)
Thank you for trusting me to hold this conversation with you, for honouring me with this great blessing and privilege to mark your mom's birthday in such a special way. I hope she's dancing with the stars, which is what I say about my mama. I hope both our mothers dance with each other with the stars. Why wouldn't they?
Jami De Lou (58:18)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Free of any ailment that they ever felt, right? Yes.
Ritu (58:28)
this ultimate liberation. And
then I wish that the peace that they are feeling that you and I get to embody as well as daughters who did our best to honor them then and now. And so thank you for doing all of the incredible work that you're doing and creating a platform so that people can share in this meaningful way. So I'm so grateful. Bless.
Jami De Lou (58:36)
Mm.
Yes.
Thank you, thank you so much.
Jami De Lou (58:52)
I'm so grateful that you could be with us today. What I hope you heard, what I hope you heard today is what happens when someone has built real language around things most of us can only feel. Caregiving is...
Caregiving is complex. It can be long. Sometimes the duration is short. It can be unexpected. It can be so many different things. And that journey, you heard from Ritu and I, know, where it starts and what actually ends up happening for someone in that journey can be very different.
For those who are dealing with memory care and dementia with a loved one or Alzheimer's, you know it is brutal and hard and it is a way of grieving someone while they're still here. But I was so grateful for the way Ritu talked about different things that you can do to see the essence of the person while they're still here. That really resonated to me with some things that we're going through.
right now as a family. And so I just want to remind everyone that is navigating the journey of caregiving is not a personal failing if you feel like you can't show up fully in every aspect of your life. And grief is not a detour. That's something I really feel like we hit on in this episode. And leading or showing up in a workplace as a colleague while carrying
both of these things is not a reason to just perform your way through. And I say that as somebody who performed my way through for a very long time. In hindsight that I have, I can tell you I didn't always show up like the best version of myself as a leader and as a colleague in the way I wanted to because I was so fried and wired and challenged by what my nervous system was navigating.
⁓ So if you're in the middle of that and you're still caregiving and you're still grieving or you're somewhere in between in this journey, I just really want you to hear this. All we can do is make a decision and do the next best thing and keep going. That's how we move through it. You just do the next best thing and you keep going. The links to both of Ritu's books will be
and her consulting and the amazing work that she does will be in the...
What's it called? Thank you. The links for both of Ritu's books and her amazing work as a speaker and consultant will be linked in the show notes. So please go find her work, share this episode if it moved you, if you find someone that you think it might be meaningful to. And as always, I mean, that's it.
Adaptability starts with presence. So take a breath, reset, and keep practicing connection with yourself and with the people who help you take good care. Until next time.
Remember, until next time.
Until next time, I am brave, I am enough, I am brave enough, and so are you. This is Adaptive Humans. Real talk, intentional growth.
There's something weird about going like go find her work. And I just feel like we're jumping right into that. That's why it was not showing up the way.
Adaptability starts with presence. Take a deep breath.
reset and keep practicing connection with yourself first and with people who help you take good care. Until next time, I am brave. Until next time, remember I am brave, I am enough, I am brave enough and so are you.
This is Adaptive Humans. Real talk, intentional growth.
