Katie Fogarty [00:21]:
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Are you a skincare junkie? I have friends who have bathroom cabinets that are crammed with lotions and potions. For years, I was too lazy to do anything for my skin aside from slathering on sunblock at the beach. The only bottle on my bathroom shelf was a drugstore moisturizer. Not anymore. My skin needs extra TLC… like extra, extra TLC. And my bet, based on the zillions of conversations I’ve had with my friends, the women standing next to me in line at the drugstore, Sephora, or the dermatologist’s office, that your skin needs extra TLC too.
Today’s guest is a beauty industry veteran who hit midlife and realized that so many of skincare products on the market are designed to make women feel like crap about their skin instead of truly addressing the challenges of maturing skin as hormones change. Celeste Lee is a cofounder of Caire Beauty which calls itself, “Skincare for grownups.” This grown-up is here for it and wants to know more. And best of all, if you stick around to the end of the show, Celeste and Caire Beauty have an offer you will not want to miss. Welcome, Celeste.
Celeste Lee [1:35]:
Hi Katie, thank you so much for having me today!
Katie [1:37]:
I’m excited, I’m excited. We’ve done two shows on skincare in the past. People love this topic because our skin changes and we need help dealing with it. We’ve got discoloration, dryness, fine lines, the beginning of wrinkles, et cetera. I’m excited to talk to you about Caire Beauty because you have an entire line of product, marketed as superpower midlife skincare. I said it in the opening, you call it skincare for grownups. How did you come—
Celeste [2:05]:
Thank— Oh gosh, I didn’t mean to interrupt. [laughs]
Katie [2:07]:
Not at all, not at all, we’re excited. You want to dive in, and I get it.
Celeste [2:11]:
Well, you know, skincare for grownups is interesting, and the reason we call it that is that we realized – Lorrie and I, my partner – that when you get older, skin aging changes for women as opposed to men. And then when we found out why, it has everything to do with estrogen, progesterone, and even our levels of testosterone actually. Sex hormones control and actually are a green light to daily skin cell generation if you can believe it. And it actually starts to change much earlier on than anybody knows, it actually starts to happen around 29, 30. But at the beginning, and it happens for men and women equally at that point, it’s quite little, you lose a percent of your generative capability a day. So, not a big deal, you don’t really notice it. But it’s cumulative right, so if every year you’re losing a percent, it becomes impactful by the time you’re in your late thirties.
And then, for women, of course, things get crazy. So, men keep going at that 1% loss a year, whereas women start to lose 2-2.5% of their skin cell generation and that’s when you start to see and feel that dryness and those lines and the fact that your skin isn’t as bouncy as it used to be. And think about it, it makes sense, if you have fewer skin cells inside, what’s filling that area in? Well, nothing. And so, as a result, all your cells have bigger spaces in between. And I know that sounds crazy but there’s these layers of skin and as the cells are growing up, and maturing, and coming to the surface, if there’s more space in between… At first, it was okay because the hyaluronic acid is filling in the space in between the proteins, and you probably know about collagen, and you probably know about elastin and all the other skin cells. But over time, when there’s less and less, you literally have less filler. So, imagine if you took feathers out of your pillow every day or every year. Eventually, obviously you’re going to have a little bit of a collapse.
Katie [4:20]:
You’re having a very bad night’s sleep. [both laugh]
Celeste [4:22]:
Literally, that’s what it is. So, when we figured this out, we’re like oh my god, I can’t believe… Lorrie and I have been in beauty forever and we were like, “Why is it that all of a sudden…” now we’re in our late forties and all of our friends and ourselves are like, “What do I do with these undereye bags?” That was the number one question that we were getting from friends. And it was all about, you know, trying to like, the two of us would go over and have cocktails and say, “Well, what do you think the best concealer is? I don’t know, I kind of like Laura Mercier but it’s a little heavy.” We’d have these conversations and then one day we were like, how come there isn’t skincare that actually directly addresses this problem that occurs with what is known as internal aging? It’s estrogen or hormone-related aging, as you so well put.
Katie [5:07]:
So wait, when you say internal aging. So, external aging I’m assuming is stuff like sun damage or things that we’ve done externally. Internal aging is stuff that we can't control, necessarily.
Celeste [5:22]:
It’s natural that our bodies are changing. They’re changing all the time. Hormones are naturally changing. Not to put too blunt a note on it, but when a woman gets older and she gets worried about having children, being able to get pregnant, say 38, 39, 40, it’s the same reason: your ovaries are producing less estrogen. In other words, estrogen is not just a baby-making hormone, it actually is a hormone that helps cellular growth throughout the body. So, it’s fascinating because of that, and we were like, there’s got to be a way to deal with this. You’re not doing anything wrong, it’s normal and it’s natural and it happens to every woman, right. It happens to men, but as I mentioned, at a much slower and more… calm rate, shall we say.
Katie [6:12]:
That does not seem fair by the way. I just want to jump in and say, I had no… We hear about the gender pay gap, we hear about the gender divide at home. I cannot believe we have a gender divide of skin as well. That’s, you know… That’s depressing.
Celeste [6:25]:
I know, we couldn’t believe it either! You know how we talk about the pink tax for menstruation and having to buy tampons all our lives? Well, guess what? There’s this other… I call it the perimenopause tax that a woman, on average, believe it or not, spends at least $20,000 on dealing with hot flashes and other things. And that number probably doesn’t include the number that you’re going to spend on to keep your skin as fresh as possible. But to me, that’s money well spent. Because the way you take care of yourself now, is going to inform how you look a year from now, five years from now, ten years from now.
That’s why we created Caire, which was literally to figure out a solution to estrogen decline and how it impacts the skin. So, we have what we call, a replace and reactivate technology that works from the inside out and we in fact, directly infuse super tiny, hyaluronic molecules inside skin, to fill in that space better, right. And then also, we use what’s called a signaling peptide and that’s really interesting. You hear about peptides all the time in skincare, at least I hope you have. They have different powers; they really are superpowers but ours is particularly interesting because it has signaling capability. What that means is it tells your own skin to turn on more collagen and more hyaluronic acid generation. So, it’s compensating for that loss that you’re experiencing.
And I’ve got to tell you, it’s really tremendous, we get letters all the time that people really can feel their skin feel more firm, and more smooth from the inside out. It makes you feel better about yourself and there’s nothing wrong with that because you know what, our faces, they’re our identity and you’ve been living with a certain face your whole life, it just doesn’t seem right that you should have to feel terrible about yourself. There’s no reason to...
Katie [8:26]:
Celeste, this is fascinating. And I want to explore something that you said. You talked about adding hyaluronic acid molecules to your skin. So, one of the things I noticed from your website is that you share that 99% of skincare solutions currently that are being marketed as anti-aging, even those that have wonderful ingredients and that smell amazing, simply sit on top of your skin, they don’t penetrate under the dermis level. But you’re sharing that your products do. Can you tell us more about this? And how do your products address the changes in skin at the dermal level?
Celeste [09:04]:
That’s so important. Listen, there’s some very good skincare out there because as we mentioned earlier, external aging… And it’s so great, by the way to hear that you wore sunscreen all that time because that’s a huge, huge aging driver.
Katie [9:18]:
Celeste we’re doing this over audio so you can’t see my skin, but I’ve got fair, freckly, Irish skin. I have spent my entire life under a beach umbrella slathered in sunblock. [laughs]
Celeste [9:30]:
But you know what, you’re going to do better than some of your darker-skinned friends because you took care of yourself. Honestly, you’ll see.
Katie [9:36]:
I wanted to be tan. Just to be clear, I wanted to be tan. But it was never going to happen.
Celeste [9:41]:
Well, I’m Asian American and my mother has very pale skin which is very favored where she grew up. And she was horrified by my wanting to lie out in the backyard and go to the swim club [Katie laughs] and hang out and wear Bain de Soleil. She was just like, “What is that stuff and why do I keep having to buy it for you?” I was like, “I like the smell.” And she’s like, “Uh-huh.” She was appalled.
But I have to say, there’s a lot of good skincare that definitely deflects the sunrays, that definitely work on pollution which causes free radical generation so your vitamin C serums and moisturizers can be very helpful, niacinamide is a good ingredient. All of that can be very good. But when it comes to what’s going on inside, most skincare simply doesn’t go in. And that’s okay, your skin is designed, it’s our largest organ, it’s designed to keep things out.
So, when you put something inside, you have to be very judicious and very careful and we worked really hard and we have two science partners in our company who are PhDs and we worked very hard to put natural nutrition in. And these ultra-tiny hyaluronic acid molecules are couture made for us to go in and we can’t, in all honesty, replace everything you’ve lost. It’s impossible, partially because you’re making and losing skin cells every day, just like you are with all of your cells. And that’s why the peptide is also helpful. And we bio ferment it to make sure that… it’s kind of like how a plant takes in water, to let it go through so that it has a chance to be able to do its signaling capability, to tell your body, encourage your body to make more skin cells.
These are very hard things to do and they’re not miracle workers, I don’t want people to think that suddenly we’re going to turn your 50- or 60-year-old skin, or even 35-year-old skin, back to 25. There is no such thing. But what you can do is absolutely improve your skin health from the inside with good management of skin and part of it is just really taking care of it and giving it nutrition every day.
Katie [11:53]:
Just to be clear. When you say nutrition, this is nutrition for your skin that’s applied topically. This is not something that you’re taking orally.
Celeste [11:59]:
Yes, I’m so sorry. We call it nutrition because hyaluronic acid – which also scares people by the way, we know there’s a lot on the marketplace – is actually natural in your body. It’s everywhere; it’s in your brains, it’s in your knees, if you have creaky knees, it’s partially because you don’t have enough hyaluronic. So, our hyaluronic nutrition is designed to penetrate because it's so small, the skin surface, it’s truly invisible, it’s truly a millionth of a hair width wide. And it goes in, and it travels down into the dermis where it sits and there it naturally holds water, it pulls up water into it. If you can imagine it like a dry sponge that fills out, and as it fills out, it’s holding all of your other skin cells in place. So, that collagen and the elastin proteins that are around, you’re holding it up. Another way to think of it is like, the mortar between bricks. If you didn’t have a mortar, what would hold the bricks up? Nothing, it would all fall down. Right, it’s not the greatest example because mortar is very hard and hyaluronic is actually gooey, it’s kind of like Jell-O inside your skin.
Katie [13:07]:
Celeste, you had me at dry sponge, honestly. [Celeste laughs] When you said, “dry sponge,” I was like, “I feel like Celeste is seeing me,” because that’s how my skin feels, you know, coming out of winter, coming out of… it’s still kind of cold and damp here in New York, we’re still using heaters and my skin is like a dry sponge.
We are heading into a commercial break, but when we come back, I want to know, when should these interventions begin to help our skin? Do we need a time machine to go back to our thirties or can we make a difference today?
[Ad break]
Katie [15:03]:
Celeste, we’re back from the break. When we went into it, I asked you, do we need a time machine to go back to our twenties and thirties? Or is it possible to still make a difference in our skincare if we start today?
Celeste [15:14]:
It is absolutely possible. It’s kind of like what they say about exercise, today is the best day to start. That’s the truth.
Katie [15:22]:
Good. [laughs]
Celeste [15:22]:
And to be honest, we almost called the company a whole different name. Our brand was going to be called at one point, The Future Happens Every Day.
Katie [15:30]:
Wow, that’s like a Zen koan. [laughs]
Celeste [15:33]:
I know, it’s like our internal mantra, to be honest. Because every day you have an opportunity to take care of yourself better. That’s the truth. And that has to do with your lifestyle choices, how much water you’re drinking, how much sleep you’re getting, whether you walk – whatever it is 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 steps – et cetera, et cetera. And the same thing happens with skin. I can only encourage you to really think hard about using our serum every day, twice a day. We have incredible clinicals that just came back actually at the end of last year and by the way, our clinicals were done with women of a certain age, literally.
Katie [16:10]:
[laughs] Good, we like that.
Celeste [16:14]:
And the average age was 53. You can start, the skincare that we produce is ideal to start at 35, maybe even 34, to be honest. But you can start at 55, you can start at 65. It’s not just our serum. You also want to use a good moisturizer or a facial oil over the serum, it helps seal it in and push it in. You want to use our mask a few times a week for a deep quench. And it has a certain exfoliative property to it as well.
Because one of the other… A lot of things happen, we didn’t get into the deep science because it’s a little crazy and I don’t want to bore people with a biology class. But a lot of things happen, it’s not just skin cell generation that’s slowing down. Your ability for your body to remove the dead skin cells on the surface is also slowing down and things like that. So, you think, “Okay, well that’s why I need to use an exfoliator,” which is good. But at the same time, you don’t want to use a scrub anymore. You might have done that in your twenties, you absolutely don’t want to use anything that’s going to destroy the quality of your skin. If you’re going to exfoliate, be very gentle, use a light fruit enzyme exfoliator, then put on our serum, then apply a moisturizer or a very light, light, a light dab of oil in the wintertime.
Katie [17:32]:
This is so wonderful.
Celeste [17:33]:
And then use that mask for that deep molecular, sort of, quenching push. Your skin will feel so soft afterward. I know I sound like an ad, and I don’t mean to but honestly, I just did it on Sunday. I’ll be the first to admit, that I’m not the best mask user, I love a mask, but I forget to do it. I’ll be the first to admit it, so you just got to find once or twice a week where you know you’re just going to get up, put it on, and go have your coffee.
Katie [16:14]:
Maybe or do it with your favorite show. First of all, I love that you said fruit actives because I had Dr. Rose Ingleton, of ROSE Ingleton MD skin line, come on the show and she makes products with super fruits, she’s taken it from her Jamaican heritage and incorporated that, so I love this notion of a fruit active.
And I want to also share with the audience that Celeste was kind enough to send me the Theorem Serum Boost and the Triple Lift Molecule Mask right before the show was created. I haven’t had a chance to use them extensively, but I did use the Triple Lift Molecule mask and I’m going to confess, weirdly, I put it on my hands because my hands are so dry and I was like, I need this incredible deep moisture on my hands. I put it on, it dried very, very quickly. Even though it had this very viscous, sort of juicy feel to it, when I put it on, it dried almost instantly. And then, when I washed it off, I am not making this up either, my hands were so much softer. I was like, “This is incredible.” I need to actually get organized and use this as a mask on my face because I could not believe the difference that it made even in just these two uses that I did it on the back of my hands, so I’m a fan of that.
Celeste [19:21]:
You’ve got to try it on your face.
Katie [19:22]:
I’m doing to, but we just discussed, I’m disorganized.
Celeste [19:26]:
There are a lot of people that do use it on their hands and even on their chest, for the chest wrinkles because it does soften, and it does smooth and it’s not going to be a forever change. You’ll feel really good about it for a day. But I want people to know, this is the real difference from putting on a hand moisturizer, which you can feel for the rest of the day on the surface of your skin, versus our mask which is actually penetrating and going in and smoothing and softening and lifting from the inside out, and it feels natural.
Katie [20:00]:
Yes, I used it on the back of my hands, I should say, because they get very, very dry. I think it’s also the constant hand washing. I can attest to this; I felt a difference in my skin. So, I was amazed by that.
I know that the Theorem Serum Boost and the Triple Lift Molecule Mask are kind of your hero products, you bundle them together and recommend using them. But you also have other products on your website, I’d love to hear a little bit about them. But I also want to ask you about the skin rollers that you have and the Gua Sha tools that your website sells because I will say, even though I have been skincare lazy in my past, I am obsessed with Gua Sha, which I have been doing since the pandemic started. I was mindlessly Instagram scrolling one day and saw someone doing Gua Sha and then like, click, click, click, bought myself a set and I now do it every single day and it feels amazing. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about these tools, what they offer, and why you sell them? And I’m curious to know… I know you’ve done clinical studies on all your products. Do you have any studies about whether or not Gua Sha is effective?
Celeste [21:08]:
I’m so sorry, we haven’t done a study yet on the Gua Sha. Everything we hear is from our own focus groups. But it’s a very interesting technique.
Katie [21:19]:
It feels amazing. That’s why I do it. It feels like a deep massage.
Celeste [21:23]:
It’s a personal facial massage but it’s more than a massage
Katie [21:27]:
Ugh, it’s so good. I’m obsessed with it. I feel like it removes stress when I rub it on my forehead.
Celeste [21:34]:
It does, you’re absolutely right Katie, you nailed it. It’s destressing, it’s detoxing, and more importantly, deep in. So again, as you age, what’s happening is that everything is just a little slower, it’s a little bit more sluggish. And when you use these natural crystal stones, whether you choose the roller or the Gua Sha – every person has their preference, right – what you’re doing… and you always want to work from the inside, the middle of your face, outwards. And what you’re doing is allowing your body underneath to get the blood flowing and the lymphatic fluids even beneath your blood vessels to take toxins that are naturally in your body, into the blood vessels, where they get, you know, they go out in your pee or whatever. And that’s a good thing. Because you’re just…
Here’s another thing that happens. I don’t mean to be a bummer but [Katie laughs] another thing that happens is that when skin cells die, they’re called senescent cells. You’d think that they’re innocent, [Katie laughs] they’re just dead skin cells. Actually, our bodies are amazing, they naturally recycle them, they break them down into the amino acids that they came from, and they actually get reused in creating new cells, mostly. But some parts of it do go out in your pee or wherever it goes. However, here’s what happens. Your body doesn’t clear, your skin doesn’t clear those senescent cells as fast as it used to.
Now, we can’t see this, this is all inside. This is that internal chronological aging I’m talking about. So, when you’re using the Gua Sha, or a facial roller, you’re helping your body clear those senescent cells. And why is that important? Because those seemingly dead cells aren’t just there doing nothing, they’re actually creating inflammation, just by being there. They cause the real living cells around it to be impacted and it creates inflammation and which contributes to the redness, and maybe some of the adult acne, rosacea, and all these other things that women, after 35 and 45 start having. And they’re all like, “What is this? Why would I have acne at 50? How is this possible?”
So, all these things, they’re not individual events, of course, they’re all part of a system. So, what I love about the Gua Sha, is it’s a very easy, low maintenance, you don’t have to think really hard about it, you can just hang out in your bathtub, watch Succession, I don’t know, whatever it is, [Katie laughs] and just kind of do it and you can find it very relaxing. Which is why you’re doing it, it feels good!
Katie [24:07]:
Here’s the other amazing thing also about your Triple Lift Molecule Mask. I will you’re your packaging is fabulous. It feels wonderful in your hand when you’re holding it. And the mask comes in a round kind of jar that is mirrored on the top and it almost feels like you’re holding a compact mirror. You can literally probably sit in front of your TV and apply this to your face using this wonderful, mirrored jar that you have. It’s super cool packaging.
Celeste [24:37]:
Oh my god, Katie, you’re so great to notice. You’re the first person who has ever even said that! I’m going to have to try that, I’ve never even thought of that.
Katie [24:45]:
It feels great. I love having something in your hand that feels substantial, it feels luxurious. I guess I do notice that because as I said earlier, a lot of my stuff is from the drugstore and I’m like, “Wow, this is a serious upgrade.” [laughs]
Celeste [25:00]:
Well you know, here’s the thing. When we grow up, now we’re adulting, one of the things, as my mother used to always say, anything you’re investing in yourself, in your health, is an investment in your own future, every day. I think that my mom was really, really correct about this. I think that the time to start stepping up is around 35, 40 at the latest 45 because the truth of the matter is, drugstore products, while there is nothing per se wrong with it, it’s designed in a one size fits all approach. It’s for men and women, they can be 16, 26, 56, 86. Doesn’t matter. And I hate to say this because I don’t think they mean badly but the drugstore companies are very large global companies, I’m not going to name them, you know who they are. And their job, and I come from the industry, so I know, their job is to create the exact same product all around the world, it might have slightly different packaging but it’s the same product, and to do it as cheaply as possible and to sell to as many people as possible, it’s a volume game. So, they’re not out there in your best interest. They’re not going to give you the high-performance ingredients, they’re not adjusting their formulations to reflect current thinking. And this whole notion of… and actually this fundamental idea of how estrogen and chronological aging for women happens, is a very new topic. Of course, it’s been happening for millions of years, but this is not something that we ever spoke about, probably up until 100 years ago, the average woman didn’t live that long.
Katie [26:36]:
Celeste, talking about sounding depressing, I was just going to jump in because I said this to a friend recently, we took a walk and I said, women have been going through menopause for millennia and she said, “No, they haven’t because women used to die.” We all used to die a lot earlier and the reality is, we are living longer than we have ever lived before as a population and we’re living longer, healthier, happier, fitter, we hope. But we have to pay attention to caring for, not just our skin, but our bodies, I talk about vaginas a lot on this show, our teeth, our mindset, our mood. You have to understand that you’re going to live 30 years longer than your great grandparents did, so you want to make sure that everything works with it. So, that’s my little… I’m on my soapbox, I’m getting off of it because I’m turning it back over to you.
Celeste [27:26]:
I think about that all the time and you’re absolutely right. There were very few women who outlived their average age, say. That did happen, and they were revered. And actually, in older societies, and it’s known, they actually used to have a party for when you had menopause and you were this wise, experienced, smart woman who was passing down this critical information in your community and your societies to other women, to other men, to the whole group. But now we live in a different time, and we have a very youth-centric, overly youth-centric, I would argue, point of view.
The fact of the matter is, women over 50, women over 60, you’re now at midlife, you’ve got another 40, 50 years to go. If you’re not taking care of yourself now, you’re really going to be in trouble in another 10 years, 20 years for sure. And the vagina thing, that is so important. [Katie laughs] Vaginal atrophy is a form of skin decline. The exact same thing I just talked about skin applies to your vagina, you’re producing fewer skin cells. That hyaluronic acid is partially why there’s atrophy. It’s really important that you take care of that through excellent products. There’s Reverie, there’s Bona Fide, and there are amazing products out there that actually, by the way, use hyaluronic, in addition to other ingredients to create moisturization and to try and help build that skin back up, just like we do with the facial skin.
Katie [28:56]:
Exactly. And people who’ve been listening to the show for a while know that I’m a fan of Kindra, who has been a sponsor of the show. They have wonderful daily vaginal lotion. So many wonderful companies. And I think you’re partnering with them on a new beauty toolbox that I saw pop up on my Instagram.
Celeste [29:11]:
Yes! We’re in its toolbox! It’s all beauty and wellness. Kindra has a couple of very interesting products in it, as do we and a couple of other companies. I encourage you to take a look at it. I think that the Kindra applicator for their vaginal product is a game-changer, it’s comfortable…
Katie [29:29]:
Yup, it makes it very easy to use. And by the way, anybody who is listening to this right now, Kindra is not sponsoring this show. I’m just sharing with you that they have sponsored the show in the past and I always use the products of my sponsors I found it to be easy to use and effective, so I just wanted to throw that out there to our listeners.
Celeste, we are going to be wrapping up soon, we’re going to move into a speed round, but I don’t want to do that yet without asking you about Pharrell. Because I saw, by spending time on your website that Pharrell is a supporter of Caire Beauty, I need to know more about this. What’s going on?
Celeste [30:01]:
Oh, he has been so amazing oh my god. We spoke to him just last week, Lorrie and I and he has this amazing organization that he created last year, it was an inaugural year of something called Black Ambition where he and a team of people are out there looking for the best and the brightest, I hope, in the Black and Latinx communities and Lorrie is African American, and we applied.
Katie [30:28]:
And she’s your cofounder.
Celeste [30:29]:
She’s my cofounder and while we weren’t the top winner, we were one of the finalists, and Pharrell is now an investor, even though he has his own skincare company, in our company. And he said something so wonderful he said, “Our sisters need to be taken care of too and this is such an important thing as we grow up and we need to make sure everybody is taken care of, and there’s no reason why Caire could not become a global phenomenon.”
Katie [30:57]:
Oh my gosh, from his lips to god’s ears. That’s amazing.
Celeste [31:01]:
I hope so!
Katie [31:03]:
[laughs] What a fun, cool story and I love that he is so generous to spread it around and support you and invest in you, even more critically because female-founded companies need dollars and investments. I love this.
All right, Celeste, we’re onto the speed round. I always close the show with this because I could talk to all my guests forever, but time is ticking so we have one-to-two-word answers to complete this thought. Are you ready?
Celeste [31:34]:
I’ll try! Okay.
Katie [31:35]:
You can do it, I know it. Creating Caire Beauty is _____.
Celeste [31:40]:
Hard work. [laughs]
Katie [31:42]:
We love honest answers. The Caire Beauty product I reach for again and again is _____.
Celeste [31:49]:
Theorem Serum. I use it, can I confess? Three times a day.
Katie [31:52]:
Oh my god. Okay, that was my next question. Serum at night or in the morning? But now I know it’s morning, noon, and night. I love it. You’re well moisturized. How often do you use the Triple Lift Mask?
Celeste [32:05]:
Oh my god, not as much as I ought to. Lorrie does it twice a week though.
Katie [32:09]:
Okay, these are good answers. Do you wash your face, this is a true, honest question. Is it hot, cold, or tepid water for the best hydration?
Celeste [32:19]:
I use tepid to cool water, and I only use a real cleanser once a day.
Katie [32:25]:
Okay, nice. Next product you want to add to the line?
Celeste [32:30]:
We’re actually going to be launching a moisturizer in three months. Look out folks, it’s going to be amazing!
Katie [32:36]:
Okay. And I’ve got an idea for you too. You said earlier in the show, that the number one complaint you were hearing from women is eye bags. What about an eye cream?
Celeste [32:44]:
Ah! That will be in the future but actually, I didn’t get a chance to mention it it’s my fault, but the serum has an eye secret ingredient inside called eye-fective, and it actually works on the undereye bags, and the eyelid droop, as well as the outside crow’s feet.
Katie [33:00]:
Ooo, this is the Theorem Serum Boost?
Celeste [33:03]:
Yeah, so it’s totally safe and it’s actually designed for what’s called the ocular triangle… Sorry, I know these are really long answers.
Katie [33:08]:
No, that’s all right, keep going because this is an area that I’m curious about.
Celeste [33:14]:
Yeah, we try to be efficient because we also know that people are busy, they don’t need a 50-step routine or even an 8-step routine. So, we wanted to launch products that were kind of one and done, you know?
Katie [33:27]:
Okay, perfect. So, the Theorem Serum Boost can be used around your eyes. Favorite non-Caire Beauty product _____.
Celeste [33:36]:
Oh my god, I love the Bobbi Brown oil cleanser for my face because it doesn’t strip, and it makes my face feel safe and you have to protect your face.
Katie [33:50]:
I love this. Okay, if I could time travel, I would go back and do this for my skin at a younger age.
Celeste [33:56]:
100%. I did not take care of my skin until well into my forties, at all.
Katie [34:03]:
Okay, so start earlier. Okay, so finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence: As I age, I feel _____.
Celeste [34:11]:
I feel more interesting.
Katie [34:13]:
Nice, I love it. Okay, thank you, Celeste, this has been a total treat. I want you to share with our listeners where they can find Caire Beauty and hear your fun offer for all A Certain Age listeners.
Celeste [34:27]:
Thank you, everybody! You can go to our website which is cairebeauty.com. We put the I in care, by the way, for the individual because we each have an individual menopausal, perimenopausal, whatever you want to call it, grown-up journey. And we’re offering a 20% discount to all of you. Just use Katie20.
Katie [34:54]:
Thank you so much, Celeste, this has been a treat.
Celeste [34:56]:
Katie, thank you! It’s been such a pleasure!
Katie [34:58]:
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when I talk with Margit Detweiler of the Gen X storytelling platform and community, TueNight.
Want to make sure you never miss an episode of A Certain Age? Sign up for our free weekly newsletter, AGE BOLDLY, over on acertainagepod.com or follow the fun on Instagram @acertainagepod.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then: age boldly, beauties.
Welcome to A Certain Age, a show for women who are unafraid to age out loud. Are you a skincare junkie? I have friends who have bathroom cabinets that are crammed with lotions and potions. For years, I was too lazy to do anything for my skin aside from slathering on sunblock at the beach. The only bottle on my bathroom shelf was a drugstore moisturizer. Not anymore. My skin needs extra TLC… like extra, extra TLC. And my bet, based on the zillions of conversations I’ve had with my friends, the women standing next to me in line at the drugstore, Sephora, or the dermatologist’s office, that your skin needs extra TLC too.
Today’s guest is a beauty industry veteran who hit midlife and realized that so many of skincare products on the market are designed to make women feel like crap about their skin instead of truly addressing the challenges of maturing skin as hormones change. Celeste Lee is a cofounder of Caire Beauty which calls itself, “Skincare for grownups.” This grown-up is here for it and wants to know more. And best of all, if you stick around to the end of the show, Celeste and Caire Beauty have an offer you will not want to miss. Welcome, Celeste.
Celeste Lee [1:35]:
Hi Katie, thank you so much for having me today!
Katie [1:37]:
I’m excited, I’m excited. We’ve done two shows on skincare in the past. People love this topic because our skin changes and we need help dealing with it. We’ve got discoloration, dryness, fine lines, the beginning of wrinkles, et cetera. I’m excited to talk to you about Caire Beauty because you have an entire line of product, marketed as superpower midlife skincare. I said it in the opening, you call it skincare for grownups. How did you come—
Celeste [2:05]:
Thank— Oh gosh, I didn’t mean to interrupt. [laughs]
Katie [2:07]:
Not at all, not at all, we’re excited. You want to dive in, and I get it.
Celeste [2:11]:
Well, you know, skincare for grownups is interesting, and the reason we call it that is that we realized – Lorrie and I, my partner – that when you get older, skin aging changes for women as opposed to men. And then when we found out why, it has everything to do with estrogen, progesterone, and even our levels of testosterone actually. Sex hormones control and actually are a green light to daily skin cell generation if you can believe it. And it actually starts to change much earlier on than anybody knows, it actually starts to happen around 29, 30. But at the beginning, and it happens for men and women equally at that point, it’s quite little, you lose a percent of your generative capability a day. So, not a big deal, you don’t really notice it. But it’s cumulative right, so if every year you’re losing a percent, it becomes impactful by the time you’re in your late thirties.
And then, for women, of course, things get crazy. So, men keep going at that 1% loss a year, whereas women start to lose 2-2.5% of their skin cell generation and that’s when you start to see and feel that dryness and those lines and the fact that your skin isn’t as bouncy as it used to be. And think about it, it makes sense, if you have fewer skin cells inside, what’s filling that area in? Well, nothing. And so, as a result, all your cells have bigger spaces in between. And I know that sounds crazy but there’s these layers of skin and as the cells are growing up, and maturing, and coming to the surface, if there’s more space in between… At first, it was okay because the hyaluronic acid is filling in the space in between the proteins, and you probably know about collagen, and you probably know about elastin and all the other skin cells. But over time, when there’s less and less, you literally have less filler. So, imagine if you took feathers out of your pillow every day or every year. Eventually, obviously you’re going to have a little bit of a collapse.
Katie [4:20]:
You’re having a very bad night’s sleep. [both laugh]
Celeste [4:22]:
Literally, that’s what it is. So, when we figured this out, we’re like oh my god, I can’t believe… Lorrie and I have been in beauty forever and we were like, “Why is it that all of a sudden…” now we’re in our late forties and all of our friends and ourselves are like, “What do I do with these undereye bags?” That was the number one question that we were getting from friends. And it was all about, you know, trying to like, the two of us would go over and have cocktails and say, “Well, what do you think the best concealer is? I don’t know, I kind of like Laura Mercier but it’s a little heavy.” We’d have these conversations and then one day we were like, how come there isn’t skincare that actually directly addresses this problem that occurs with what is known as internal aging? It’s estrogen or hormone-related aging, as you so well put.
Katie [5:07]:
So wait, when you say internal aging. So, external aging I’m assuming is stuff like sun damage or things that we’ve done externally. Internal aging is stuff that we can't control, necessarily.
Celeste [5:22]:
It’s natural that our bodies are changing. They’re changing all the time. Hormones are naturally changing. Not to put too blunt a note on it, but when a woman gets older and she gets worried about having children, being able to get pregnant, say 38, 39, 40, it’s the same reason: your ovaries are producing less estrogen. In other words, estrogen is not just a baby-making hormone, it actually is a hormone that helps cellular growth throughout the body. So, it’s fascinating because of that, and we were like, there’s got to be a way to deal with this. You’re not doing anything wrong, it’s normal and it’s natural and it happens to every woman, right. It happens to men, but as I mentioned, at a much slower and more… calm rate, shall we say.
Katie [6:12]:
That does not seem fair by the way. I just want to jump in and say, I had no… We hear about the gender pay gap, we hear about the gender divide at home. I cannot believe we have a gender divide of skin as well. That’s, you know… That’s depressing.
Celeste [6:25]:
I know, we couldn’t believe it either! You know how we talk about the pink tax for menstruation and having to buy tampons all our lives? Well, guess what? There’s this other… I call it the perimenopause tax that a woman, on average, believe it or not, spends at least $20,000 on dealing with hot flashes and other things. And that number probably doesn’t include the number that you’re going to spend on to keep your skin as fresh as possible. But to me, that’s money well spent. Because the way you take care of yourself now, is going to inform how you look a year from now, five years from now, ten years from now.
That’s why we created Caire, which was literally to figure out a solution to estrogen decline and how it impacts the skin. So, we have what we call, a replace and reactivate technology that works from the inside out and we in fact, directly infuse super tiny, hyaluronic molecules inside skin, to fill in that space better, right. And then also, we use what’s called a signaling peptide and that’s really interesting. You hear about peptides all the time in skincare, at least I hope you have. They have different powers; they really are superpowers but ours is particularly interesting because it has signaling capability. What that means is it tells your own skin to turn on more collagen and more hyaluronic acid generation. So, it’s compensating for that loss that you’re experiencing.
And I’ve got to tell you, it’s really tremendous, we get letters all the time that people really can feel their skin feel more firm, and more smooth from the inside out. It makes you feel better about yourself and there’s nothing wrong with that because you know what, our faces, they’re our identity and you’ve been living with a certain face your whole life, it just doesn’t seem right that you should have to feel terrible about yourself. There’s no reason to...
Katie [8:26]:
Celeste, this is fascinating. And I want to explore something that you said. You talked about adding hyaluronic acid molecules to your skin. So, one of the things I noticed from your website is that you share that 99% of skincare solutions currently that are being marketed as anti-aging, even those that have wonderful ingredients and that smell amazing, simply sit on top of your skin, they don’t penetrate under the dermis level. But you’re sharing that your products do. Can you tell us more about this? And how do your products address the changes in skin at the dermal level?
Celeste [09:04]:
That’s so important. Listen, there’s some very good skincare out there because as we mentioned earlier, external aging… And it’s so great, by the way to hear that you wore sunscreen all that time because that’s a huge, huge aging driver.
Katie [9:18]:
Celeste we’re doing this over audio so you can’t see my skin, but I’ve got fair, freckly, Irish skin. I have spent my entire life under a beach umbrella slathered in sunblock. [laughs]
Celeste [9:30]:
But you know what, you’re going to do better than some of your darker-skinned friends because you took care of yourself. Honestly, you’ll see.
Katie [9:36]:
I wanted to be tan. Just to be clear, I wanted to be tan. But it was never going to happen.
Celeste [9:41]:
Well, I’m Asian American and my mother has very pale skin which is very favored where she grew up. And she was horrified by my wanting to lie out in the backyard and go to the swim club [Katie laughs] and hang out and wear Bain de Soleil. She was just like, “What is that stuff and why do I keep having to buy it for you?” I was like, “I like the smell.” And she’s like, “Uh-huh.” She was appalled.
But I have to say, there’s a lot of good skincare that definitely deflects the sunrays, that definitely work on pollution which causes free radical generation so your vitamin C serums and moisturizers can be very helpful, niacinamide is a good ingredient. All of that can be very good. But when it comes to what’s going on inside, most skincare simply doesn’t go in. And that’s okay, your skin is designed, it’s our largest organ, it’s designed to keep things out.
So, when you put something inside, you have to be very judicious and very careful and we worked really hard and we have two science partners in our company who are PhDs and we worked very hard to put natural nutrition in. And these ultra-tiny hyaluronic acid molecules are couture made for us to go in and we can’t, in all honesty, replace everything you’ve lost. It’s impossible, partially because you’re making and losing skin cells every day, just like you are with all of your cells. And that’s why the peptide is also helpful. And we bio ferment it to make sure that… it’s kind of like how a plant takes in water, to let it go through so that it has a chance to be able to do its signaling capability, to tell your body, encourage your body to make more skin cells.
These are very hard things to do and they’re not miracle workers, I don’t want people to think that suddenly we’re going to turn your 50- or 60-year-old skin, or even 35-year-old skin, back to 25. There is no such thing. But what you can do is absolutely improve your skin health from the inside with good management of skin and part of it is just really taking care of it and giving it nutrition every day.
Katie [11:53]:
Just to be clear. When you say nutrition, this is nutrition for your skin that’s applied topically. This is not something that you’re taking orally.
Celeste [11:59]:
Yes, I’m so sorry. We call it nutrition because hyaluronic acid – which also scares people by the way, we know there’s a lot on the marketplace – is actually natural in your body. It’s everywhere; it’s in your brains, it’s in your knees, if you have creaky knees, it’s partially because you don’t have enough hyaluronic. So, our hyaluronic nutrition is designed to penetrate because it's so small, the skin surface, it’s truly invisible, it’s truly a millionth of a hair width wide. And it goes in, and it travels down into the dermis where it sits and there it naturally holds water, it pulls up water into it. If you can imagine it like a dry sponge that fills out, and as it fills out, it’s holding all of your other skin cells in place. So, that collagen and the elastin proteins that are around, you’re holding it up. Another way to think of it is like, the mortar between bricks. If you didn’t have a mortar, what would hold the bricks up? Nothing, it would all fall down. Right, it’s not the greatest example because mortar is very hard and hyaluronic is actually gooey, it’s kind of like Jell-O inside your skin.
Katie [13:07]:
Celeste, you had me at dry sponge, honestly. [Celeste laughs] When you said, “dry sponge,” I was like, “I feel like Celeste is seeing me,” because that’s how my skin feels, you know, coming out of winter, coming out of… it’s still kind of cold and damp here in New York, we’re still using heaters and my skin is like a dry sponge.
We are heading into a commercial break, but when we come back, I want to know, when should these interventions begin to help our skin? Do we need a time machine to go back to our thirties or can we make a difference today?
[Ad break]
Katie [15:03]:
Celeste, we’re back from the break. When we went into it, I asked you, do we need a time machine to go back to our twenties and thirties? Or is it possible to still make a difference in our skincare if we start today?
Celeste [15:14]:
It is absolutely possible. It’s kind of like what they say about exercise, today is the best day to start. That’s the truth.
Katie [15:22]:
Good. [laughs]
Celeste [15:22]:
And to be honest, we almost called the company a whole different name. Our brand was going to be called at one point, The Future Happens Every Day.
Katie [15:30]:
Wow, that’s like a Zen koan. [laughs]
Celeste [15:33]:
I know, it’s like our internal mantra, to be honest. Because every day you have an opportunity to take care of yourself better. That’s the truth. And that has to do with your lifestyle choices, how much water you’re drinking, how much sleep you’re getting, whether you walk – whatever it is 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 steps – et cetera, et cetera. And the same thing happens with skin. I can only encourage you to really think hard about using our serum every day, twice a day. We have incredible clinicals that just came back actually at the end of last year and by the way, our clinicals were done with women of a certain age, literally.
Katie [16:10]:
[laughs] Good, we like that.
Celeste [16:14]:
And the average age was 53. You can start, the skincare that we produce is ideal to start at 35, maybe even 34, to be honest. But you can start at 55, you can start at 65. It’s not just our serum. You also want to use a good moisturizer or a facial oil over the serum, it helps seal it in and push it in. You want to use our mask a few times a week for a deep quench. And it has a certain exfoliative property to it as well.
Because one of the other… A lot of things happen, we didn’t get into the deep science because it’s a little crazy and I don’t want to bore people with a biology class. But a lot of things happen, it’s not just skin cell generation that’s slowing down. Your ability for your body to remove the dead skin cells on the surface is also slowing down and things like that. So, you think, “Okay, well that’s why I need to use an exfoliator,” which is good. But at the same time, you don’t want to use a scrub anymore. You might have done that in your twenties, you absolutely don’t want to use anything that’s going to destroy the quality of your skin. If you’re going to exfoliate, be very gentle, use a light fruit enzyme exfoliator, then put on our serum, then apply a moisturizer or a very light, light, a light dab of oil in the wintertime.
Katie [17:32]:
This is so wonderful.
Celeste [17:33]:
And then use that mask for that deep molecular, sort of, quenching push. Your skin will feel so soft afterward. I know I sound like an ad, and I don’t mean to but honestly, I just did it on Sunday. I’ll be the first to admit, that I’m not the best mask user, I love a mask, but I forget to do it. I’ll be the first to admit it, so you just got to find once or twice a week where you know you’re just going to get up, put it on, and go have your coffee.
Katie [16:14]:
Maybe or do it with your favorite show. First of all, I love that you said fruit actives because I had Dr. Rose Ingleton, of ROSE Ingleton MD skin line, come on the show and she makes products with super fruits, she’s taken it from her Jamaican heritage and incorporated that, so I love this notion of a fruit active.
And I want to also share with the audience that Celeste was kind enough to send me the Theorem Serum Boost and the Triple Lift Molecule Mask right before the show was created. I haven’t had a chance to use them extensively, but I did use the Triple Lift Molecule mask and I’m going to confess, weirdly, I put it on my hands because my hands are so dry and I was like, I need this incredible deep moisture on my hands. I put it on, it dried very, very quickly. Even though it had this very viscous, sort of juicy feel to it, when I put it on, it dried almost instantly. And then, when I washed it off, I am not making this up either, my hands were so much softer. I was like, “This is incredible.” I need to actually get organized and use this as a mask on my face because I could not believe the difference that it made even in just these two uses that I did it on the back of my hands, so I’m a fan of that.
Celeste [19:21]:
You’ve got to try it on your face.
Katie [19:22]:
I’m doing to, but we just discussed, I’m disorganized.
Celeste [19:26]:
There are a lot of people that do use it on their hands and even on their chest, for the chest wrinkles because it does soften, and it does smooth and it’s not going to be a forever change. You’ll feel really good about it for a day. But I want people to know, this is the real difference from putting on a hand moisturizer, which you can feel for the rest of the day on the surface of your skin, versus our mask which is actually penetrating and going in and smoothing and softening and lifting from the inside out, and it feels natural.
Katie [20:00]:
Yes, I used it on the back of my hands, I should say, because they get very, very dry. I think it’s also the constant hand washing. I can attest to this; I felt a difference in my skin. So, I was amazed by that.
I know that the Theorem Serum Boost and the Triple Lift Molecule Mask are kind of your hero products, you bundle them together and recommend using them. But you also have other products on your website, I’d love to hear a little bit about them. But I also want to ask you about the skin rollers that you have and the Gua Sha tools that your website sells because I will say, even though I have been skincare lazy in my past, I am obsessed with Gua Sha, which I have been doing since the pandemic started. I was mindlessly Instagram scrolling one day and saw someone doing Gua Sha and then like, click, click, click, bought myself a set and I now do it every single day and it feels amazing. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about these tools, what they offer, and why you sell them? And I’m curious to know… I know you’ve done clinical studies on all your products. Do you have any studies about whether or not Gua Sha is effective?
Celeste [21:08]:
I’m so sorry, we haven’t done a study yet on the Gua Sha. Everything we hear is from our own focus groups. But it’s a very interesting technique.
Katie [21:19]:
It feels amazing. That’s why I do it. It feels like a deep massage.
Celeste [21:23]:
It’s a personal facial massage but it’s more than a massage
Katie [21:27]:
Ugh, it’s so good. I’m obsessed with it. I feel like it removes stress when I rub it on my forehead.
Celeste [21:34]:
It does, you’re absolutely right Katie, you nailed it. It’s destressing, it’s detoxing, and more importantly, deep in. So again, as you age, what’s happening is that everything is just a little slower, it’s a little bit more sluggish. And when you use these natural crystal stones, whether you choose the roller or the Gua Sha – every person has their preference, right – what you’re doing… and you always want to work from the inside, the middle of your face, outwards. And what you’re doing is allowing your body underneath to get the blood flowing and the lymphatic fluids even beneath your blood vessels to take toxins that are naturally in your body, into the blood vessels, where they get, you know, they go out in your pee or whatever. And that’s a good thing. Because you’re just…
Here’s another thing that happens. I don’t mean to be a bummer but [Katie laughs] another thing that happens is that when skin cells die, they’re called senescent cells. You’d think that they’re innocent, [Katie laughs] they’re just dead skin cells. Actually, our bodies are amazing, they naturally recycle them, they break them down into the amino acids that they came from, and they actually get reused in creating new cells, mostly. But some parts of it do go out in your pee or wherever it goes. However, here’s what happens. Your body doesn’t clear, your skin doesn’t clear those senescent cells as fast as it used to.
Now, we can’t see this, this is all inside. This is that internal chronological aging I’m talking about. So, when you’re using the Gua Sha, or a facial roller, you’re helping your body clear those senescent cells. And why is that important? Because those seemingly dead cells aren’t just there doing nothing, they’re actually creating inflammation, just by being there. They cause the real living cells around it to be impacted and it creates inflammation and which contributes to the redness, and maybe some of the adult acne, rosacea, and all these other things that women, after 35 and 45 start having. And they’re all like, “What is this? Why would I have acne at 50? How is this possible?”
So, all these things, they’re not individual events, of course, they’re all part of a system. So, what I love about the Gua Sha, is it’s a very easy, low maintenance, you don’t have to think really hard about it, you can just hang out in your bathtub, watch Succession, I don’t know, whatever it is, [Katie laughs] and just kind of do it and you can find it very relaxing. Which is why you’re doing it, it feels good!
Katie [24:07]:
Here’s the other amazing thing also about your Triple Lift Molecule Mask. I will you’re your packaging is fabulous. It feels wonderful in your hand when you’re holding it. And the mask comes in a round kind of jar that is mirrored on the top and it almost feels like you’re holding a compact mirror. You can literally probably sit in front of your TV and apply this to your face using this wonderful, mirrored jar that you have. It’s super cool packaging.
Celeste [24:37]:
Oh my god, Katie, you’re so great to notice. You’re the first person who has ever even said that! I’m going to have to try that, I’ve never even thought of that.
Katie [24:45]:
It feels great. I love having something in your hand that feels substantial, it feels luxurious. I guess I do notice that because as I said earlier, a lot of my stuff is from the drugstore and I’m like, “Wow, this is a serious upgrade.” [laughs]
Celeste [25:00]:
Well you know, here’s the thing. When we grow up, now we’re adulting, one of the things, as my mother used to always say, anything you’re investing in yourself, in your health, is an investment in your own future, every day. I think that my mom was really, really correct about this. I think that the time to start stepping up is around 35, 40 at the latest 45 because the truth of the matter is, drugstore products, while there is nothing per se wrong with it, it’s designed in a one size fits all approach. It’s for men and women, they can be 16, 26, 56, 86. Doesn’t matter. And I hate to say this because I don’t think they mean badly but the drugstore companies are very large global companies, I’m not going to name them, you know who they are. And their job, and I come from the industry, so I know, their job is to create the exact same product all around the world, it might have slightly different packaging but it’s the same product, and to do it as cheaply as possible and to sell to as many people as possible, it’s a volume game. So, they’re not out there in your best interest. They’re not going to give you the high-performance ingredients, they’re not adjusting their formulations to reflect current thinking. And this whole notion of… and actually this fundamental idea of how estrogen and chronological aging for women happens, is a very new topic. Of course, it’s been happening for millions of years, but this is not something that we ever spoke about, probably up until 100 years ago, the average woman didn’t live that long.
Katie [26:36]:
Celeste, talking about sounding depressing, I was just going to jump in because I said this to a friend recently, we took a walk and I said, women have been going through menopause for millennia and she said, “No, they haven’t because women used to die.” We all used to die a lot earlier and the reality is, we are living longer than we have ever lived before as a population and we’re living longer, healthier, happier, fitter, we hope. But we have to pay attention to caring for, not just our skin, but our bodies, I talk about vaginas a lot on this show, our teeth, our mindset, our mood. You have to understand that you’re going to live 30 years longer than your great grandparents did, so you want to make sure that everything works with it. So, that’s my little… I’m on my soapbox, I’m getting off of it because I’m turning it back over to you.
Celeste [27:26]:
I think about that all the time and you’re absolutely right. There were very few women who outlived their average age, say. That did happen, and they were revered. And actually, in older societies, and it’s known, they actually used to have a party for when you had menopause and you were this wise, experienced, smart woman who was passing down this critical information in your community and your societies to other women, to other men, to the whole group. But now we live in a different time, and we have a very youth-centric, overly youth-centric, I would argue, point of view.
The fact of the matter is, women over 50, women over 60, you’re now at midlife, you’ve got another 40, 50 years to go. If you’re not taking care of yourself now, you’re really going to be in trouble in another 10 years, 20 years for sure. And the vagina thing, that is so important. [Katie laughs] Vaginal atrophy is a form of skin decline. The exact same thing I just talked about skin applies to your vagina, you’re producing fewer skin cells. That hyaluronic acid is partially why there’s atrophy. It’s really important that you take care of that through excellent products. There’s Reverie, there’s Bona Fide, and there are amazing products out there that actually, by the way, use hyaluronic, in addition to other ingredients to create moisturization and to try and help build that skin back up, just like we do with the facial skin.
Katie [28:56]:
Exactly. And people who’ve been listening to the show for a while know that I’m a fan of Kindra, who has been a sponsor of the show. They have wonderful daily vaginal lotion. So many wonderful companies. And I think you’re partnering with them on a new beauty toolbox that I saw pop up on my Instagram.
Celeste [29:11]:
Yes! We’re in its toolbox! It’s all beauty and wellness. Kindra has a couple of very interesting products in it, as do we and a couple of other companies. I encourage you to take a look at it. I think that the Kindra applicator for their vaginal product is a game-changer, it’s comfortable…
Katie [29:29]:
Yup, it makes it very easy to use. And by the way, anybody who is listening to this right now, Kindra is not sponsoring this show. I’m just sharing with you that they have sponsored the show in the past and I always use the products of my sponsors I found it to be easy to use and effective, so I just wanted to throw that out there to our listeners.
Celeste, we are going to be wrapping up soon, we’re going to move into a speed round, but I don’t want to do that yet without asking you about Pharrell. Because I saw, by spending time on your website that Pharrell is a supporter of Caire Beauty, I need to know more about this. What’s going on?
Celeste [30:01]:
Oh, he has been so amazing oh my god. We spoke to him just last week, Lorrie and I and he has this amazing organization that he created last year, it was an inaugural year of something called Black Ambition where he and a team of people are out there looking for the best and the brightest, I hope, in the Black and Latinx communities and Lorrie is African American, and we applied.
Katie [30:28]:
And she’s your cofounder.
Celeste [30:29]:
She’s my cofounder and while we weren’t the top winner, we were one of the finalists, and Pharrell is now an investor, even though he has his own skincare company, in our company. And he said something so wonderful he said, “Our sisters need to be taken care of too and this is such an important thing as we grow up and we need to make sure everybody is taken care of, and there’s no reason why Caire could not become a global phenomenon.”
Katie [30:57]:
Oh my gosh, from his lips to god’s ears. That’s amazing.
Celeste [31:01]:
I hope so!
Katie [31:03]:
[laughs] What a fun, cool story and I love that he is so generous to spread it around and support you and invest in you, even more critically because female-founded companies need dollars and investments. I love this.
All right, Celeste, we’re onto the speed round. I always close the show with this because I could talk to all my guests forever, but time is ticking so we have one-to-two-word answers to complete this thought. Are you ready?
Celeste [31:34]:
I’ll try! Okay.
Katie [31:35]:
You can do it, I know it. Creating Caire Beauty is _____.
Celeste [31:40]:
Hard work. [laughs]
Katie [31:42]:
We love honest answers. The Caire Beauty product I reach for again and again is _____.
Celeste [31:49]:
Theorem Serum. I use it, can I confess? Three times a day.
Katie [31:52]:
Oh my god. Okay, that was my next question. Serum at night or in the morning? But now I know it’s morning, noon, and night. I love it. You’re well moisturized. How often do you use the Triple Lift Mask?
Celeste [32:05]:
Oh my god, not as much as I ought to. Lorrie does it twice a week though.
Katie [32:09]:
Okay, these are good answers. Do you wash your face, this is a true, honest question. Is it hot, cold, or tepid water for the best hydration?
Celeste [32:19]:
I use tepid to cool water, and I only use a real cleanser once a day.
Katie [32:25]:
Okay, nice. Next product you want to add to the line?
Celeste [32:30]:
We’re actually going to be launching a moisturizer in three months. Look out folks, it’s going to be amazing!
Katie [32:36]:
Okay. And I’ve got an idea for you too. You said earlier in the show, that the number one complaint you were hearing from women is eye bags. What about an eye cream?
Celeste [32:44]:
Ah! That will be in the future but actually, I didn’t get a chance to mention it it’s my fault, but the serum has an eye secret ingredient inside called eye-fective, and it actually works on the undereye bags, and the eyelid droop, as well as the outside crow’s feet.
Katie [33:00]:
Ooo, this is the Theorem Serum Boost?
Celeste [33:03]:
Yeah, so it’s totally safe and it’s actually designed for what’s called the ocular triangle… Sorry, I know these are really long answers.
Katie [33:08]:
No, that’s all right, keep going because this is an area that I’m curious about.
Celeste [33:14]:
Yeah, we try to be efficient because we also know that people are busy, they don’t need a 50-step routine or even an 8-step routine. So, we wanted to launch products that were kind of one and done, you know?
Katie [33:27]:
Okay, perfect. So, the Theorem Serum Boost can be used around your eyes. Favorite non-Caire Beauty product _____.
Celeste [33:36]:
Oh my god, I love the Bobbi Brown oil cleanser for my face because it doesn’t strip, and it makes my face feel safe and you have to protect your face.
Katie [33:50]:
I love this. Okay, if I could time travel, I would go back and do this for my skin at a younger age.
Celeste [33:56]:
100%. I did not take care of my skin until well into my forties, at all.
Katie [34:03]:
Okay, so start earlier. Okay, so finally, your one-word answer to complete this sentence: As I age, I feel _____.
Celeste [34:11]:
I feel more interesting.
Katie [34:13]:
Nice, I love it. Okay, thank you, Celeste, this has been a total treat. I want you to share with our listeners where they can find Caire Beauty and hear your fun offer for all A Certain Age listeners.
Celeste [34:27]:
Thank you, everybody! You can go to our website which is cairebeauty.com. We put the I in care, by the way, for the individual because we each have an individual menopausal, perimenopausal, whatever you want to call it, grown-up journey. And we’re offering a 20% discount to all of you. Just use Katie20.
Katie [34:54]:
Thank you so much, Celeste, this has been a treat.
Celeste [34:56]:
Katie, thank you! It’s been such a pleasure!
Katie [34:58]:
This wraps A Certain Age, a show for women who are aging without apology. Join me next Monday when I talk with Margit Detweiler of the Gen X storytelling platform and community, TueNight.
Want to make sure you never miss an episode of A Certain Age? Sign up for our free weekly newsletter, AGE BOLDLY, over on acertainagepod.com or follow the fun on Instagram @acertainagepod.
Special thanks to Michael Mancini who composed and produced our theme music. See you next time and until then: age boldly, beauties.
