Hellraiser

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Welcome to You Killed Clyde.
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I'm your host, Frank, and today we're going to be discussing what happens when your stepmom is a total freak.
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Folks, today we're talking about the 1987 British supernatural horror film Hellraiser, written and directed by Clive Barker.
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The film explores the story of a young woman named Kirstie who discovers her skinless, undead uncle in her family's attic and must bargain with terrifying leatherclad beings to send him back to hell.
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I am not alone here, however.
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With me today is my lovely co-host, Andrew.
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What's up?
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Uh hey, Frank.
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Thanks for having me, even though I'm a regularly featured co-host.
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Um I'm good.
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It's uh, you know, we're we're summer's winding up.
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I'm very much looking forward to fall because of course with fall brings the horror movie bonanza of the next two months of just watching them.
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I mean, I watch them nonstop anyway, but um just cozy up uh on on a nice evening, nice cold evening, and uh watching some horror movies.
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So what did you think of Hellraiser?
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Uh I actually so this is I watched for the second time for this podcast.
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I had seen it like some years ago.
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I liked it a whole lot more on the second viewing.
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I don't know why that is.
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Like I always remember liking it.
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I think I just really appreciated this movie more in the second viewing, despite being filled with like quite a few scenes of not so good acting.
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Um the special effects, the plot, the I love that this is kind of like a cosmic horror film in some ways.
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Um and not a slasher.
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I think sometimes people people might try and rope this in with a slasher a little bit, but it's not at all.
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Um and I really, really enjoyed it.
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And I forgot how nutty the second, the like the last act of this movie got.
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I really forgot about like how good it was.
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I do think maybe the centibytes, like we're gonna talk about them quite a bit, but they really don't have a lot of screen time in this movie for how famous they are.
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Yeah, especially like you know, Pinhead, who be who got the name lovingly as a result of this film, but really like they're not in it very long, and the way that she dispatches them isn't necessarily that good.
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It's almost like she accidentally figured out four separate configurations and sent each of them individually back to hell within three minutes.
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I think, yes, she uh she very much just stumbles on the left, like beams them back into their the realm that they're from.
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I think it's I don't know if it's said in this movie, but I think the realm is called Leviathan.
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That is one of the configurations of the puzzle box.
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So the puzzle box has several different configurations, one of which is Leviathan, but I think you're correct in assuming that because another configuration opens up another portal to that other creature, which we'll talk about later.
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And it's funny because this sort of theme of the configurations is not explored in this film at all.
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And I don't think it needs to be.
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Like, I think it's just like, hey, this box summons these beings, yada yada.
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But in the new Hellraiser, like the remake, a lot of people I don't think really like that movie, but I really, really, really like it.
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And they go into like they go more in depth about like each configuration and what that summons and what that does.
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And I actually felt like it was like kind of a cool, a cool part of that film.
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I don't know if you've seen that one or not.
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No, I watched it with you, yeah.
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Oh did you really?
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Yeah, we watched it in uh at your apartment, yeah.
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Oh my gosh.
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Well, I actually I liked it.
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I I and I from what I understand, I think it's the best one since number one.
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Number two is fantastic.
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Oh, unequivocally, like I I think it's like a just a fucking straight up great movie.
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Three is a little wacky, but I still really like it.
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But I would say the Hellraiser remake is better than part three.
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And truth be told, I have not really watched any of the other Hellraisers outside of three in-depth at all.
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Well, there's a there's a bunch of straight to DVD ones.
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Right?
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Like there's yeah.
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But there's people that are like diehard fans of this franchise and like really like the way that I feel about Nightmare in Elm Street is the way people feel about all the films in this franchise, and that it's really, really beloved.
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However, beyond three, I'm not really super uh yeah, invested or interested.
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Yeah, I mean yeah, same here.
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I'm not familiar at all.
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The other thing I kind of appreciate about this movie, and we'll talk a little bit about like Clive Barker's background, which I literally had no, like obviously I really like Clive Barker and I like a lot of Clive Barker's films.
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I just really had no idea like how much sex plays a role in his work.
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And I think if you look at like as sex as a weapon in this movie, like you look at it from the perspective of Frank, Frank manipulates Julia, Julia in turn manipulates the men, and the Cinnabites in turn manipulate whomever's in their possession, all using the force of sex.
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And I think it just plays like a really critical role in the film.
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And I like it.
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There's a lot of like manipulation in here, and a lot of like the lengths that people will go to in order to satisfy themselves, I think is an interesting play here, which I actually never thought of until I watched it this latest time.
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And I think when you do the podcast and you're writing the script, you start to get like more like you know, you're researching, you start to get like far more invested in the film itself as as a as a like a body of work, as opposed to when you're just kind of like casually watching it and you're just kind of like flipping through your phone.
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Yeah, this is like I like what you just said about the whole I like the whole theming around sex, desire, pleasure.
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I mean, that's what this movie is really about.
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Um how this like evil woman, how far she will go to get this man back that she lusts over long after his disappearance.
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Um, and there's a lot to talk about here with regards to like not only sex, but like the limits of hedonism and depravity that people will go to to satisfy themselves.
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I also think like with this one, there is I think like not only do we have like that horror element, the sex element, we have like really good set design, we have super good special effects.
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Yeah, the special effects are wonderful, which is kind of crazy because there is when Frank first starts to rebirth, yeah, like from like the organism into my favorite scene of the movie.
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But it's really funny because this movie came out prior to Nightmare in Elm Street part four, and in Nightmare and Elm Street Part Four, there is a really famous scene where like the dog peas and Freddy is kind of like restructured and rebirthed, and it's done through this like reverse camera work where his flesh begins to like grow and he begins to like recreate.
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But I I actually kind of found it interesting, and the only reason I bring that up is because it reminds me a lot of this film, and I'm just wondering how much influence was derived from this, just being uh kind of a special effects powerhouse in and of itself, which I didn't give it credit for as much on first watch.
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Yeah, I feel the same way about the special effects this time around.
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Like the whole scene of Frank coming back to life is insane, it's so cool, and the reverse photography, the it's so moist and gross and gooey.
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Uh it is very gooey, that's definitely for sure.
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In fact, Frank is moist in every single scene of this movie.
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He's either sweating, he's rained on, or he's a corpse that has blood and guts on him.
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It's kind of funny.
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Like, the only thing, and I'll talk about this a bit later, is I don't like the switch between actors.
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So, like when Frank is in corpse form, it is a different actor who was chosen specifically because he has a very slight frame.
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Oh, that makes sense, yeah.
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And but it looks nothing like Frank.
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And so it took me out a little bit.
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I'm like, obviously, like Julia wants Frank and she really wants to get fucked by Frank again because that was like some good lovin'.
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But it's like I just it took me out a little bit because it didn't resemble Sean Chapman, who plays Frank with skin on at all.
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And I think that's kind of like one of those things where I was like, uh, I didn't love that.
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Not that I don't like the actor, but I didn't love how different he looked, I guess, is what I'll say.
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Yeah, no, that's I I I didn't even realize.
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I mean, it doesn't look like him, but I didn't realize I thought it was just makeup that was doing that work.
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So okay, let's uh let's go into um some background.
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I mostly read a few articles that quote Clive Barker himself in order to put together the story.
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So I'm just gonna tell you what those are.
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So one is How We Made Hellraiser, interviews by Phil Hode, Shudders of Pleasure, The Story of Hellraiser by Nick Pinkerton, and how filmmaking frustrations yielded Clive Barker's Super Butchers in Hellraiser by Chris Vogels.
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And so I don't know if you know this, but Clive Barker was a gay hustler in the 1970s.
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Yeah, I don't, I don't know, I know nothing really about Clive Barker, to be honest, other than the like some of the franchises he's taken part in.
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Can you believe that?
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I as a fan of Clive Barker, the fact that I he was a hustler is wild to me.
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And he says, and I think this is a really interesting thing.
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Like, if we're gonna talk about like sex as a weapon or a tool, he says, I met a lot of people, um, some you'll know and some you won't, publishers and captains of industry.
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The way they acted and the way I did, to be honest, was a source of inspiration later.
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Sex is the great leveler.
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So he was like meeting all these like really high-profile, powerful men.
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But like when they're naked in bed with him, they're his equal.
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And he exercises some level of like control and power.
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And that, like, I mean, if you think about that, that plays a whole hell of a lot into like how Julia manifests and her character arc using sex as a tool in order to achieve, you know, whatever she's trying to do.
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So the reason I bring this up, obviously, is because Hellraiser does explore sex, BDSM, and the use of uh sex to gain power.
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So prior to Hellraiser, Clive had produced two non-sync sound shorts, Salome and the Forbidden.
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So these film experiments, nor his turn at theater or illustration had like garnered him much success.
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But it was in like 1984 where his collection of short stories, the Books of Blood, became widely successful and he became a successful writer.
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And so in 1986, a second entry into the Books of Blood, the Hellbound Heart, was published at 186 pages.
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And what this novella was initially about was it concerned an amoral sibarite.
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I had to look this up.
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It is a person obsessed with luxury, torn to shreds by interdimensional Cenovite demons after using a mystical puzzle box to access a plane of overwhelming sensory gratification.
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And I don't think we explore the Sibyrite persona a lot in this movie, but in the Hellraiser remake, they open up with this party of people, and those party of people have hustlers surrounding them.
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And I feel like that sort of like speaks a little bit more to the novella than this film does.
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So it is this novella that would form the basis for Hellraiser.
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And Clive very much had a film in mind when it was written.
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So Clive Barker stated that he wanted to make the Hellbound Heart into a film because he wanted to prevent low-quality adaptations of his work being made by other people.
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He was very critical of two different adaptations of his previous works: 1985's Underworld and 1986 Rawhead Rex, which secretly I like, both directed by George Pavlu and wanted to prevent this from happening again.
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So he essentially had a little plan in mind when he wrote The Hellbound Heart.
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And it's it's kind of interesting because he he had other film, other works that he had written adapted into films, but he really never achieved success from those.
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Like the director gets notoriety.
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It really isn't until right now that we start to understand who this guy is and that he even exists.
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But from an interview with Barker and The Guardian, Barker says most English and American horror movies were not sexual, or coquettishly so.
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A bunch of teenagers having sex and then getting killed, which he mentioned earlier.
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Hellraiser, the story of a man driven to seek the ultimate sensual experience, has a much more twisted sense of sensuality.
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And in 1986, Barker had enough of a name to secure Roger Corman's company New World, who agreed to fund the film for$900,000 and said very plainly to Barker that it would go straight to video.
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That's sad.
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I know.
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That's like that's like very oh, by the way, this is going right to video.
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Like no chance of a theoretical release, really.
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Yeah, and I think it's because like his I think with Barker, he had tried his hand at a lot of different creative endeavors, and like I said, hadn't achieved any like notoriety or success.
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So the fact that New World said, we're gonna give you this opportunity, but it'll go straight to video.
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I don't think that really was something upsetting to Clive Barker.
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I think he thought, okay, this is a stepping stone into me making my own film.
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And I think that we see this is the turning point between him as an author to like an introduction of like the rest of his career.
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And the fact that this movie is so weird is wild.
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This movie, so this movie did go straight to video?
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Mm-mm.
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So it oh, so he oh, okay.
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The inception, like the original purpose, the original purpose is just to like get it to video, but as he started making it, they realized there was potential for it, and then they released it.
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Oh, cool, okay.
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So I wanted to talk a little bit about the Cenobites, even though, like we said, they they don't appear in this movie for very long, but they definitely do have like obviously a pretty palpable presence because I mean Pinhead is like a huge cultural horror icon, and the Cenobites are like widely known throughout like horror canon, right?
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Since so let's give them a second.
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Yeah, they even like they even get an appearance in uh Cavern of the Woods.
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Oh my god, they do! Yeah, yeah.
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Cav in the Woods is a bunch of awesome references, but in Cavern of the Woods, uh that one of the things they could have done to trigger the scenario was a puzzle box.
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And then later on, we see their take on a Cenobite who has got a saw blade through his head.
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Oh, yeah, that's true.
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Oh, yeah, that one Cenobyte.
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Yeah.
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Who's in yeah, that that's awesome.
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Yes, exactly.
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So they've completely entered Horror Cannon, even though, like I said, the first movie features them for like eight minutes.
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Like it's very, very short run time for these guys.
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And uh we're on August 31st for my gamer uh viewers or listeners out there.
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Sorry.
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Uh, within the next month, we're gonna get a Hellraiser video game coming out, um, which is pretty wild in this day and age to all of a sudden get a full-fledged video game for that for this property.
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Um so pretty excited myself for that.
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Would you play it?
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I'm gonna buy it.
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Yeah, it's like a horror game.
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Like it's it's like it's like a survival horror, so I can't wait to play it.
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Okay, so with the Cenobites, so the original screenplay for Hellraiser featured one central Cenobite operating in the shadows, but was later adapted to include four super butchers, quote end quote.
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He says, Nothing springs into my imagination without having inspiration in other things I've seen or experienced.
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The centibytes were no exception.
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Their design was influenced among other things by punk, by Catholicism, and by the visits I would take to SM clubs in New York and Amsterdam.
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On the SM sliding scale, I'm probably a six.
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There was an underground club called Cellblock 28 in New York that had a very hard SM night.
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No drink, no drugs.
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They played it very straight.
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It was the first time I ever saw people pierced for fun.
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It was the first time I saw blood spilt.
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And on the design of the Cenobites, one of the designers, Jane Wildgoose, recounts the notes she'd taken from Barker.
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She says, My notes say that he wanted one Aries of revealed flesh where some kind of torture has or is occurring, and two, something associated with butchery involved.
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And then here we have a very clive turn of phrase.
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I've written down repulsive glamour.
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So yeah, so kind of interesting that the inception of these horror icons really does come from the BDSM scene, and the fact that they're like split open and torn in different ways literally comes from inspiration that he saw while kind of touring these clubs, which is kind of cool.
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Like, I think the reason I bring this stuff up though is like it's not even so much about Hellraiser, it's like the fact that Clive Barker, again, was so inspired by sex and BDSM, and that this movie was a feature film featuring villains from that part of his imagination, I think is like really cool and subversive.
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Because if you think of the general public in the 1980s, like that really isn't a mainstream thing, and it still isn't now at all, right?
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It's very underground.
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But to bring that to the forefront, I think is like really, really cool.
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And actually, a little bit later, I'll tell you how it was received by that community.
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And it's a little surprising.
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Yeah, I think this movie manages to be a feature-length film that is digestible by the common audience, I think the common horror-goer, um, without needing to go too far into such a niche sexual experience, but also conveys that sexual experience effectively.
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Yeah, perfect.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Like there's no explicit sexuality in here.
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And the only the only scene that actually takes place of any like sort of sex is between Frank and Julia.
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Yeah, her man.
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She gets dicked down, and she that is the impetus for this whole fucking movie, is how good that dick was.
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I thought I saw this really funny quote on Reddit.
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It's to the user colored undies, who says, Julia saw a skinless hell demon and said, I can fix him.
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Like, girl, like girl, you are way outside your skill set.
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I just thought that was really funny.
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So funny.
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And the thing is, like, oh man, I have a lot to say.
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I have a lot to say about it there.
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Like, but uh Julia and how like like yeah, I have so much to say about her character.
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Yeah, like how fucking lonely are you, Julia?
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Like, here's okay.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:53.920
Wait, no, no, let's let's say that's a good one.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:21:02.319
Because I really, really want to get because there's gonna be a lot to say when we get to that part, but I think there's a lot of uh mayhem that will that will be unlocked.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:07.200
So I want to talk a little bit back about um directing with Clive Barker.
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:13.119
So again, directorial debut had never directed a film prior to this.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:18.240
He went to the library in Crouch End looking for a book on how to direct.
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.160
They had one book, but unfortunately, it was out.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.960
So Barker was on his own.
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:31.920
So initially, New World basically left Barker and his crew to their own devices.
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:35.839
But as the six-month mark approached, they said, We're coming over.
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:42.799
They came over, saw the production, seemed okay with it, and left.
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:47.759
And Barker says, I didn't get bothered by them again until later on.
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:58.160
They got us to relocate the story to America and overdub some of the accents, which I didn't feel great about because the original story had been so English.
00:21:58.480 --> 00:21:59.599
And obviously, like.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:04.000
We can talk a little bit about this when we get more to like when they arrive at the house.
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:11.759
But one of the weird things about this movie is that it's hard to place where it takes place.
00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:13.680
And this is why.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:20.240
Halfway through filming, they moved locations, essentially cultures, and accents.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.920
And it's weird.
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:32.960
Clive Barker says that New World gave the film a wide release, and I got a really positive reaction from the SM crowd, and still do.
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:35.279
I was validating a lifestyle.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.400
It was a celebration of the beauty of these strange secret rituals.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:53.039
So despite having the location moved over to the States, New World saw the film as being potential for them to make some money.
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:58.240
And then so they transferred it from home video over to a wide release.
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.680
They said this thing needs a theater release, and that's what they did.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:03.440
That's awesome.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:14.880
Yeah, like that's uh like I think it's cool that he was given the chance to like make this movie, and then even from what he was doing, they what they saw, like, okay, this should probably go to theaters.
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:22.240
And also, is this not a symbol of like, dude, like build it and they will come?
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:35.119
Like, even though he he could have been like, Oh, I don't want to do this because it's like a home release and that's like small fry for me, but he did it, he did the best possible work he could do, and boom, landed a feature release.
00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:36.799
Like, incredible.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:37.839
It's just wild.
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:43.359
I guess, sorry, I guess it's wild to me that this guy shows up as like, hey, I want to direct this movie, and I've never directed a movie before.
00:23:43.599 --> 00:23:49.200
It's just like, yeah, and they were like, and they were like, Yeah, you can do it, but it's gonna go straight to home video.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:24:01.759
Yeah, so that's that's like yeah, it was a small opportunity, but he ended up spinning it into something that for the rest of his career, like it set him up for like crazy amounts of success.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.079
I wonder if if his directing would have changed at all if he had gotten a hold of that book.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:08.400
Whoa, what book?
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:12.400
He said he went to like oh the directorial debut book, yeah.
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:14.799
Yeah, can you imagine?
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.039
Yeah, it's just so it's so wild to me.
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:22.960
Like, like there's no he'd have no portfolio of having directed anything, even like a fun little skit with his friends or something.
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:32.400
Like, no, because the only two things that he worked on were those two short films aforementioned, but they they didn't go anywhere.
00:24:32.480 --> 00:25:01.680
They were they were, like you said, like very experimental, very small, but for some reason, almost to be honest with you, like similar to Curry Barker, you know, something really tiny was created, but obviously New World saw potential in not only this story, but in Clive Barker and said, we're going to green light this on a small scale, and through hard work, realize, like, yeah, we can actually release this on a larger scale.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:21.279
And what makes that even nuttier is the fact that, like, we talked about the fact that it deals with this overt BDSM culture, which is really, you know, faux pas in the 1980s, makes it all the more crazy that they would have said yes.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:27.119
There is a bunch of censorship stuff that happened to this film, which I'll talk about in a second.
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:35.920
But barring that, I mean, it's a pretty, it's a pretty big swing to take on a small first-time director.
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:36.480
Okay.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:53.440
All right, Andrew, let's talk a little bit about Doug Bradley, who does not get the same notoriety as Robert England, possibly for a reason, although in the later Hellraiser films, he is a central figure.
00:25:53.680 --> 00:26:01.680
So, not based on this one, but based on the subsequent eight films, he does become a little bit of like a character, right?
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:02.640
Especially part three.
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:07.119
You should definitely watch part three because it is batshit fucking wild and crazy.
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:22.559
But Doug Bradley, whose character has since become known as Pinhead, played this character in a total of eight Hellraiser films, has known Clive Barker and been a collaborator of his since their days at Quarry Bank High School.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:26.079
So he knew Clive since high school.
00:26:26.319 --> 00:26:27.599
That is crazy.
00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:29.279
It is who you know.
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.519
Also, and the world is just the world is small.
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:35.440
Oh, totally, yeah.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:41.920
Like, like I just mean like you just it it just whether it's Hollywood, whether it's like your own personalized, like I found that recently.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:51.920
Like, not recently, I found that I just find reminders that all the time where it's like someone's dating someone who you know through this other person, and it's like, Jesus, this world is small.
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.519
It's like it's it's wild, dude.
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:54.480
Try being gay.
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:55.440
No, I'm kidding.
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:56.720
Okay, no, no, no, no.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:04.240
Try so Bradley is a bit of a Nepo friend.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.960
So Bradley says, I've known Clyde since we did a play together at high school in Liverpool.
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:14.559
He first mentioned in the fall of 1985 that he was putting together a low-budget British independent horror movie.
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:20.240
According to Bradley, the makeup for Pinhead took around five to six hours to put on.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:25.039
And it was in this makeup that the decisions about playing Pinhead were made.
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:30.640
He says, I had a sense of power, of majesty, of a kind of beauty.
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.640
His threat is implied.
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:34.720
Look what I did to myself.
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:37.279
Now imagine what I could do to you.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.160
He says that Barker gave him one note.
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:45.839
You have no idea how amazing this looks on camera, but do less.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:49.839
Let the makeup and the character tell through being seen.
00:27:50.079 --> 00:27:58.319
So, unlike Freddy, Pinhead and the first Hellraiser is a much more subdued display of power.
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:08.160
Although I would argue in Nightmare N Street Part One, Freddy is a lot more subdued than we see in subsequent films.
00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:10.160
Yeah, but interesting.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:17.440
And Bradley's got a he's got his iconic deep voice speech that he uses for pinhead.
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:20.079
Like his He really doesn't say much in this movie.
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:21.440
It's very no, but it's iconic.
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.319
His whole line, the box, you opened it.
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:27.839
We came.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:33.039
So I also I wanted to talk a little bit about censorship.
00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:39.279
So Hellraiser was initially banned in Ontario by the Ontario Film and Video Review Board.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:46.720
By a three to two majority vote, the film was deemed not approved in its entirety as it contravenes community standards.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:54.240
It was banned because of its brutal graphic violence with bloodletting throughout, horror, degradation, and torture.
00:28:54.480 --> 00:29:02.640
In August 1987, Hellraiser was passed by the Ontario Film Review Board, but only after several cuts were made to the film.
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:08.400
New World Mutual Pictures of Canada cut about 40 seconds to get the film passed with an R rating.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:20.720
The reason I bring up this Ontario specific episode, well, not only like are we on Ontario, but this was indicative of how the film had passed through to get its R rating.
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:23.759
So it initially received an X rating.
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:29.440
So they kept like punting it back and cutting more and more from those scenes.
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:34.720
One specific uh instance is of a graphic sex scene between Julia and Frank.
00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:39.039
They reduced that scene and then were able to secure an R rating.
00:29:39.119 --> 00:29:47.359
But this film did go back and forth, I think five times before it was able to achieve an R rating and actually get released.
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:52.079
So that's that's kind of what happened, and that's that's kind of the story of how it came to be in game.
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:54.000
I think it'd be like, I wonder how fun that would have been.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:30:01.119
Like you're working with your team on a movie, like, okay, I just sent this little, I sent this like draft or this demo to the to the ratings board.
00:30:01.200 --> 00:30:02.799
Hopefully it gets through, gets sent back.
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:04.319
Okay, we'll skim this and this scene.
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.680
Like, I think that'd be kind of fun to like to see what you get away with.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:12.720
It would be, but I think it results in a choppy edit.
00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:26.799
Not for Hellraiser, like not for this film, but in general, like you're shaving bits between other bits, and then you're re-sewing that together.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:31.839
So you're not going to get something that looks like flawless and cohesive.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:34.880
You're gonna get something that looks a little choppy.
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:47.200
In this case, it doesn't, because that the only thing that they really had to like focus on were this the flashback sex scenes, which like those are very, very short, rare, and whatever.
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.839
So I don't think it like had a huge impact on the film.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:56.160
But I just think it's like the idea that that's what they had to do to get this movie made is like just kind of interesting.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:13.359
So I want to wrap here and just say, like, to hear Barker tell it, the popular success of Hellraiser wasn't so much a great leap forward, but a continuation and confirmation of the work he'd been up to in the obscure trenches of short films and theatrical productions.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:21.039
He says doing a low budget movie in a house in Cricklewood is the equivalent of the eight quid play.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:22.799
I'd go further.
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:29.039
Low budget movie making is fringe theater, except that you can actually get the audience numbers.
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:37.680
I always wanted us to get it's what fringe theater claims to be and so often isn't non-elitist populist.
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:49.920
The reason I almost pulled this specifically because I think it's a beautiful rap on like his Hellraiser story, but I also think it speaks to what you were talking about about obsession.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:32:07.839
Like these low budget films where the director is able to almost unbothered create what is in their head and then garner these like huge numbers and these huge successes is interesting.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.160
I I like that fringe theater example, like that correlation, I think is really cool.
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:20.960
I I think it just that's just I mean, it came out in the 80s, but we've had strings, we've had uh lots of movies since then.
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:36.319
Um, where as opposed to being a big budget film that has a lot of studio interference, the directors kind of left for the most part to do their own thing and squeeze whatever creativity they can inside of that budget they're given.
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:39.279
And I think sometimes that can lead to some very, very cool.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:46.640
You find out some like cool behind-the-scenes stuff of how they did certain scenes because they were constrained, you know, the budget was only so and so.
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:48.079
I always like those kind of stories.
00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:54.480
I think they're really, really cool to see what people can do with what they're given in a passion project like this.
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:55.759
I think you're right.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:08.720
I think it's like the less you are able to play with, the more you start to identify areas where you need to be creative in order to achieve the desired result.
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:18.960
And I think that for$900,000, obviously$900,000 in 1986 is a lot different than$900,000 now.
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:19.599
Yeah.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:23.519
So I would give Kareem Barker even more kudos uh for that.
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:30.240
But holy shit, what this guy was able to do with 900 grand for Hellraiser is absolutely amazing.
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:34.880
And just you're like, you just see, like I noted it a lot in this film.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:48.640
Like, not only are the special effects, they're the physical effects coming through on the actors or like the goop and the gore, but it was just the simple stuff, like the floorboards having their nails screwed out and coming apart, or like the walls separating.
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:55.920
Like it was just really cool the stuff they did to achieve like this otherworldly transformation of the set.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:10.320
Yeah, and I think like you said, like it doesn't take place in a lot of locations, and I think some of those locations very much look like a set, but I really liked that insular environment that this movie creates, particularly when she's in the hospital.
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:26.400
Like, this is like a nondescript, you know, quote unquote hospital, which is just like a one-room set, and what they do with the subway tile and the lighting conveys that there is, like you say, this cosmic element, and that's just lighting.
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:29.679
So I think think, yeah, they they really stretch it and did a great job.
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.760
Andrew, how do you think Hellraiser was received?
00:34:37.119 --> 00:34:38.159
I don't know.
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.159
I'm gonna like uh B minus, C plus.
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:44.239
What out of 10?
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:45.440
Speak my language.
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:48.639
Uh out of 10, I was gonna I guess six?
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:54.480
So on Rotten Tomatoes, it received a 6.8 out of 10.
00:34:55.039 --> 00:35:07.599
The website's consensus reads Elevated by writer-director Clive Barker's fiendishly unique vision, Hellraiser offers a disquieting and sadistically smart alternative to mindless gore.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:17.119
On Metacritic, the film was assigned a score of 56 out of 100, very close to what you just said, based on 17 critics indicating mixed or average reviews.
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:23.840
I personally would give this movie around an eight and a half out of 10.
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:35.440
For me, when you think of like the greatest movies of all time, like if I have, I don't know about you, I have my top 10 favorite movies of all time, then I have my top 10 favorite horror movies of all time.
00:35:35.599 --> 00:35:39.119
And Hellraiser for me is like almost in there.
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:45.119
Like, I love this movie, I love re-watching this movie, and I think it's fucking rad.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:59.280
Yeah, I really I would not put it that high, I don't think, but I no, but I in all seriousness, I think rewatching a second time has made me like really hold this movie in high regard.
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:09.760
And like it's funny because it I think this movie gets away with some scenes that contain some some pretty like not so great acting.
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:12.239
Um, but you're talking about Kirstie.
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:23.840
Kirstie, especially, is rough at certain parts of this movie, um, especially like her trying to pretend she's drunk was is oh my god, acting.
00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:29.280
Um, I'm sorry to the actress, but that that that brutal that was ridiculous.
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:35.760
That was like she was like, they were like, pretend to be drunk, and she's like, What does an eight-year-old look like who's learning to walk?
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:37.360
Like, it didn't make any sense.
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:38.079
Like nothing.
00:36:38.239 --> 00:36:40.000
That was so ridiculous.
00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:43.039
Yeah, but that as a note, like an asterisk.
00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:46.800
Yeah, there's just like some scenes, especially with Kirsty.
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:50.239
Um, she she's great when she's screaming and running around.
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:50.960
That's fine.
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:51.920
Um, totally.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:37:00.639
But but there's some scenes where it just it gets away with it because it's there's a certain charm to the way this movie's filmed, I think.
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:05.679
Um, but I would give this myself, I would put this on a seven for myself.
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.360
I I really like this movie.
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:08.000
Yeah.
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:08.880
Okay, cool.
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:09.280
Fair.
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:09.760
All right.
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:22.719
So as we mentioned, uh Hellraiser was made for 900 grand and earned a total of 14.6 million in the US and Canada, with a worldwide total of 30 million.
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:28.480
So not the 500 million Obsession made, but 30 times its budget.
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:35.039
So it was considered obviously hugely successful and spawned seven additional films.
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.960
I think I might what I might do for Halloween.
00:37:39.039 --> 00:37:50.159
I might do like um with Sharon, like uh a nightmare on Elm Street, like the entire series, and I might do the I might do this entire series either on my own or not.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:38:06.480
You know, I know that there are people that love this series, but I started trying to watch what one of them's called like Hellworld, and I started to watch it, and I just had to exit stage left.
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:17.280
Like I was like, I'm good, and it was I think it was like really early 2000s, so it has that sheen to it, and I just had to leave.
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:22.719
And I apologize to anyone who likes it, but I just did not like it.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:25.199
I think I'm gonna try and watch all of them and I'll get back to you.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:27.760
If I have to stop watching, then I'll give I'll give up.
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:29.519
And that's what oh, you know what, dude?
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:31.199
I'll I'll commit to this here.
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:32.719
I'll watch the first three.
00:38:32.800 --> 00:38:34.480
I'll watch number two and three.
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:38.639
Number two is fucking awesome.
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:45.119
And like if you talk about like Lovecraft and Lovecrafty and horror, it is all that.
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:48.159
Okay, it is the inverse of this movie.
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:50.719
Like, this movie very much takes place on Earth.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:57.199
That movie very much 80% of it takes place in the universe of the puzzle box.
00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:01.280
So the set design is cool, crazy.
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:07.519
And like uh the monsters are really, really they're just full of practical effects, really, really interesting.
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:14.639
Number three takes place on Earth, it's called Hell on Earth, and that's where they have like more centibytes.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:18.239
But I number three isn't neither here nor there, it's not not outstanding.
00:39:18.400 --> 00:39:23.920
But number two, I would say, is uh really, really, really cool and worth a watch for sure.
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:28.559
Okay, Andrew, are you ready to get into the bondage of it all?
00:39:28.960 --> 00:39:30.239
Absolutely.
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:35.599
Okay, today Andrew and I are gonna break down this film scene by scene.
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:41.039
So if you haven't seen it, pause, take a break, and come back and join us.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:49.760
So, Andrew, we open with a puzzle box next to a drink, where a man is asked, What's your pleasure?
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:55.119
And he replies, the box, while handing over a wad of cash.
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.960
This man is Frank, played by an extremely handsome Sean Chapman.
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:00.559
Holy fuck, that guy's hot.
00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.519
And he has plans for this box, most notably a ritual of sorts.
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:08.079
As he fumbles with the box in his hand, he opens it.
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:16.000
As he looks up, he notices light filtering into the I wrote into the abandoned warehouse he lives in.
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:22.400
But this is indeed the attic room of the home that Larry and Julia eventually move into.
00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:33.360
He moves the puzzle box into a different configuration, and this releases several chains that burst through the box and puncture his skin.
00:40:33.519 --> 00:40:37.280
This, yeah, and like a couple things about this sea that I thought was pretty cool.
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:47.599
Uh, we at the in like the the meeting that seems to be like in a desert location, um, that the guy says the box was always yours when he buys it.
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:55.119
Um, and I like that because there's you could there's some like lore of the box that maybe it does seek out those with dark desires.
00:40:55.360 --> 00:41:02.719
And I have to note that Frank is like really sweaty in uh when he does this ritual throughout my candles.
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:04.400
He is very sweaty when he when he does it.
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:07.199
And I just girl, it's because of do you see those photos?
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:08.559
That's why he's sweaty.
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:11.440
Yeah, I like I said I said this earlier.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:19.840
I don't think we see uh uh a human Frank in this movie that is not moist, and uh so I just thought that was kind of funny.
00:41:20.159 --> 00:41:32.960
I think it is interesting that this movie completely leaves it up to our imagination of what he wanted with the box and why he seemingly knows how to use the box.
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:37.119
I think I think two things here.
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:52.639
I think by the time this movie, like I think at this point, I think once Julia sees the photos of Frank and stuff, we come we will come to learn pretty quick that Frank is like a hedonist, hedonist, hedonist?
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:53.599
Hedonist, yeah.
00:41:53.760 --> 00:42:20.880
Yeah, hedonist that is reached in his mind, probably the like his excitement is gone because he's probably done every form of sexual debauchery, deviancy known to man, and this is why he seeks out this box is that he knows he definitely knows that this is like a way uh uh a realm to unexplored and untapped pleasure and pain.
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:25.760
Um, but I don't think he truly knows what he's signing up for when he uh when he activates it.
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.280
Yeah, that's true.
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:35.760
Okay, so we cut to a room with hanging chains, each with various pieces of human flesh stuck to the hooks.
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:48.719
The floor looks like the floor of a butcher shop, and we're introduced to the Cenobites who search the pieces of human flesh for a face, reconfiguring the box for a mysterious cause.
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:54.639
I completely actually forgot that we see the cinnabites this early in the film.
00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.880
And I gather what they're trying to do is put Frank's face back together.
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:02.239
Question mark.
00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:04.719
Yeah, this is I was puzzled by this as well.
00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.519
Like, we have one of the Cinnabites play in his goop.
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:11.039
Um, and yeah, they put the piece of the face back together.
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:14.800
I I can't say for what purpose, really.
00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:20.800
The only thing I'll say about I love the spinning pillar with like the stuff nailed to it and the chains.
00:43:20.880 --> 00:43:24.880
Like, I really like this like butcher's shop, if we want to call it that.
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:29.199
Yeah, it's very like Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:33.840
It's so like it's just industrial, it's it's so like cool.
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:44.159
It's such a cool take on like this like realm of pain, and it looks like people have been fucking tortured there, yeah, and like and torn apart.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:50.400
And I think we're I think we are looking at various bits and bobs of Frank nailed to these objects.
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:52.000
So, this is my theory.
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:58.719
My theory is that they don't tell us why or how, but Frank has obviously escaped, right?
00:43:58.960 --> 00:43:59.840
He has not escaped.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.199
Escaped yet.
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:04.320
But oh, that's true.
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:04.880
Okay.
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:06.239
Wait.
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:06.880
What?
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:15.840
Because he he escapes when the blood falls into the room, which allows him to escape and reconstitute himself.
00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:17.920
I don't agree with that.
00:44:18.159 --> 00:44:19.599
You think he's escaped by now at this time?
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:20.880
I think he's escaped.
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:21.119
Yeah.
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:25.039
And that they're trying to like locate him.
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:25.920
That makes sense.
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:26.159
Yeah.
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:29.760
Because why would you why would you underneath the floorboards is where he's escaped.
00:44:29.920 --> 00:44:32.639
Yeah, like underneath the floorboards is where he's escaped, too.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:34.719
Subscribe to that notion fully.
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.679
But that's what I like about this movie.
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:41.440
It's like I don't know why or how Frank escaped.
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:43.760
And I don't, like you say, it's up to interpretation.
00:44:43.920 --> 00:44:46.159
Maybe he hasn't escaped and they're trying to put him back together.
00:44:46.239 --> 00:44:46.639
I don't know.
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:47.599
It's very humpty.
00:44:47.920 --> 00:44:49.039
Like it's very like.
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:51.280
Okay.
00:44:51.760 --> 00:45:03.360
So we transition to a couple, Larry and Julia, played by Andrew Robinson and Claire Higgins, who entered their new home in the aforementioned who knows where the fuck location.
00:45:03.679 --> 00:45:09.360
And Julia remarks, it smells bad, appearing very unimpressed with the interior.
00:45:09.599 --> 00:45:15.519
We learn that the house has been in Larry's family and that his brother Frank has been using it as a hideout.
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.960
It appears Julia doesn't much like it here, but Larry assures her we can make it work here.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:23.840
And Julia reluctantly agrees.
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:29.039
Did you notice, Andrew, that she puts a cigarette right out on the hardwood floor?
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:30.559
She doesn't give a fuck, man.
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:31.760
She hates this place.
00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:38.559
And then I think this is a signal to us of what this character is all about.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:47.119
Like she doesn't care, and she's very uninterested in the life that she is living.
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:48.800
That is what I think.
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:54.880
I have a lot to say about the choices she's made to get where she is right now in this movie.
00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:05.519
Like, once we learn more about her undying lust for Frank, it begs the question why would you have even ever married his brother?
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.440
Why would you even put yourself here?
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.760
Like you're obviously so unhappy.
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:28.559
Because the thing is, people all the time make this choice between do I want like this stable, reliable man who's going to provide this like house for me, or am I gonna go for this unstable bad boy who's really good at fucking me?
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:43.280
And so she made a choice, and her choice is I'm going to be locked in this marriage, but just by virtue of this scene, you can tell that she's like really unhappy with that choice and really bored.
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:46.000
And like he just seems like kind of a like uh Larry.
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:53.119
Yeah, Larry's kind of like a happy to lucky dork in some ways, and she's like a stone cold bitch.
00:46:53.199 --> 00:46:56.880
Like I don't really understand.
00:46:56.960 --> 00:47:03.519
Like, I understand signing up for something safe, but how did how would you even be a couple at this point?
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:04.400
I don't know.
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:19.360
But it also like there are points in this movie where like she does seem oddly like intimate with him, like when his hand is bloody, she wraps it and she holds it.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:24.800
It it doesn't seem to me anyway that she's completely checked out.
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:32.079
I don't believe she's happy with this move, but I do think she recognizes Larry as a pretty decent person.
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:40.480
Because don't forget, Julie at the beginning of this movie, the one we're meeting right now, is a fucking far cry from who we get later.
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:41.440
Yeah, right?
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:44.480
Like she goes through a rapid transformation.
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:47.280
So she wants that, she wants that dick.
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:55.440
So the couple, so the couple begin to explore the new home separately.
00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:58.239
Larry discovering a kitchen in full decay.
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:00.719
It appears someone has been here.
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:08.239
He hears a cry from Julia who's been exploring the upstairs, and it appears Frank has been here.
00:48:09.039 --> 00:48:13.119
So at this point, you know, as the audience, we don't know anything about Julia and Frank, right?
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:25.440
So Julia seems intrigued, tossing her bag on the mattress on the floor, and discovering some photos of Frank and various I wrote Mardi Gras photos.
00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:34.079
Like I wasn't sure what exactly they were depicting, but I think it's meant to show you that he is sexually adventurous.
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:36.960
Yeah, I think this is obviously he's a furry.
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:43.760
This is these are like the the PG, these are the photos they would allow to show.
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:56.400
I think it realistically, this probably would have been like his photos of very, very sexually explicit photos of his his forays into his uh his hedonism.
00:48:56.719 --> 00:49:00.000
Like he was just nailing them for real with the furry masks up.
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:01.039
Absolutely, yeah.
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:03.119
So Frank is a furry.
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:18.960
Uh no, I I don't think he explored that uh aspect of sexuality, uh, but I think he's into I think Frank is a guy who has tried literally everything, and I think some of that involves a lot of evil.
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:20.480
Oh yeah.
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:21.440
And you know what's weird?
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:28.159
I I don't think these photos like depict anything like evil, but I think they do depict that he is like a little bit peculiar.
00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:28.719
Yeah.
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.320
So Julia, again, audience knows nothing about the relationship.
00:49:32.480 --> 00:49:43.119
Julia is excited by these photos and chooses to save one of Frank for her personal collection, grabbing her purse and exiting the squatter's paradise.
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:48.480
When asked what she thinks, Julia says, why not?
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:52.559
And the couple agree to move in on Sunday.
00:49:53.360 --> 00:50:03.119
So as the couple move into their new abode, they hire a couple of movers, and one of them seems to find Julia attractive.
00:50:03.360 --> 00:50:06.159
Fun fact here, I have two things to say about this.
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:17.679
One, this mover was initially supposed to be played by none other than Doug Bradley himself, who initially wanted to appear on camera as himself rather than in makeup.
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:32.719
And secondly, Julia really likes the attention from this mover, and she reeks of like both a lack of adventure and craving attention.
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:36.159
She is a bored housewife, yeah.
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:42.000
And these movers, they it's almost to a fault playup.
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:43.760
They're so creepy.
00:50:44.000 --> 00:50:47.440
Like the one that the guy at the front, yeah, it's cheesy though.
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:52.000
Like the one at the front, he stares with this like slack jaw look on his face.
00:50:52.239 --> 00:51:01.119
Like, not only at not only does he do it with uh Julia, but he does it to Kirsty in a few minutes, and like everyone's just okay with this.
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:02.079
He's like, ugh.
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:06.239
Like, they haven't even they're drinking beer, yeah.
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.199
So they have they haven't even brought the mattress up fully yet.
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:10.880
Like, do you want to get some beers?
00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:12.639
Like, who the fuck are these guys?
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:14.800
I'm like, uh no mattress first, dude.
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:15.920
Then we got the beer.
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:18.480
How about you have beer at your own fucking house?
00:51:18.639 --> 00:51:19.920
Like when you're done the job.
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:21.599
Like, like, who are these guys?
00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:26.559
I thought, like, they're I thought maybe they might be friends asking for beer, but apparently they're just like random movers.
00:51:26.800 --> 00:51:47.119
I have to say, when you think of horrors like slashes from the 1980s, what these movies tended to do, especially around this time, is their tertiary characters like movers, townsfolk, other characters, they would all act in this way that would pull you out of the film.
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:51.519
Like these guys, in no way, like it and I'll call attention one particular thing.
00:51:51.760 --> 00:52:00.559
The heavier mover, who's obviously not the central character mover, he's kind of like giggling in the background with his beard, and it's like he's like hamming up the acting.
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:03.039
Yeah, and it pulls you out of the film.
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:04.079
They're both terrible.
00:52:04.239 --> 00:52:05.840
It's just yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:12.000
And I think it takes like Julia to kind of bring you back down, but but that's a very common thing that happened in the 1980s.
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:19.920
So we're introduced to Larry's daughter, Kirsty, played by Ashley Lawrence, who won't be living with the family.
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:27.679
Larry asks Kirsty to be gentle with Julia, that she hates moving, and Kirsty responds with surprise.
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:38.480
So we're immediately introduced to the concept of disdain for a stepparent, and we all know how complicated those relationships can be, Andrew.
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:44.960
All right, so here's where the uh audience is introduced to Julia and Frank.
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:58.719
So now we have a flashback to a rainy day back on the eve of Julia's wedding to Larry, where a very wet and unbelievably hot Frank knocks on the door.
00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:04.719
Frank says, I came for the wedding, and Julia lets him into the home.
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:15.679
But upstairs, Julia enters a dark room, and this room becomes ground zero for the rebirth of her beloved Frank.
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:22.159
It's in this room where Julia begins to truly relive the night of bliss she had with Frank.
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:28.800
He asks her in the flashback, are you going to let me kiss the bride?
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.000
She asks him, What about Larry?
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:46.079
And he completely normally brandishes a switch blade, which seems which seems to excite her even more, using it to slice open her top.
00:53:46.719 --> 00:53:53.280
It appears she hasn't experienced pleasure like this before and succumbs to its grasp.
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:56.000
The two begin to make love.
00:53:56.400 --> 00:53:59.920
And would you believe it, right on top of her wedding dress.
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:08.960
She quickly succumbs to her desire, and it just shows you that like she hasn't experienced a force like him before.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:14.639
And this permeates like her whole trajectory moving forward.
00:54:14.880 --> 00:54:21.199
As a post-coital Frank departs, Julia says to him, I'll do anything you want.
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:25.119
So she got some really good dick.
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:26.320
Yeah.
00:54:26.639 --> 00:54:27.440
Yeah, absolutely.
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:30.239
I mean, this movie is is a result of that.
00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:31.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:40.159
So as the flashback plays out, we return to the foyer where Larry has sliced his finger on a nail while moving a mattress.
00:54:40.320 --> 00:54:47.039
And as he enters the room Julia is in, he spills blood upon the floorboards.
00:54:47.199 --> 00:54:53.840
The blood seeps beneath the floorboards where it appears a tiny organism is beginning to form.
00:54:55.199 --> 00:55:01.679
I would say too here, uh, not even seeps like it is directly absorbed, it's sucked into it.
00:55:02.320 --> 00:55:03.760
Yes, that is true.
00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:15.519
I think seep implies it could just naturally fall in between, but like this guy, I think it's obviously done for a bit of an exaggerated effect, but um leaks seemingly like a liter of blood on the floor.
00:55:15.760 --> 00:55:18.320
Um and so true.
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:20.800
Yeah, it's obviously I think it's done for the effect.
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:40.159
I know it is, but um you can see like I think it's more that it's that really cool like effects work where you can see the blood being pulled into any crack or nail or hole or slit in the floor, um, as opposed to just like naturally doing what liquid it would do.
00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:43.599
It's like being pulled down, which I liked a lot as effects-wise.
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:59.280
You know what I also it just occurred to me that this room must be the inverse of the butcher room, and so how he escaped was between the floorboards.
00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:01.039
Yeah, that's actually pretty cool.
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:04.639
I mean, it is it is the same room, it's just like dimensionally different.
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:08.239
Yeah, right, but that's not obvious.
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:18.880
I think two, I I think we get a couple scenes that it does show you that like that butcher's room is this room in that other dimension, though.
00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:27.039
Because it's the same layout, it still has like it's it's uh I know rooms are rooms, I get it, but like four walls and a ceiling and a floor.
00:56:27.119 --> 00:56:38.239
But I think it's meant to be, I do think it's meant to be like that's the place where he is mutilated and and tortured for pleasure, uh, is that room, but in their dimension.
00:56:38.400 --> 00:56:45.039
Like the whatever I'm not gonna I hate to use this reference, but like I think it that room is mirrored into their dimension.
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:46.239
Yeah, that's what I mean.
00:56:46.320 --> 00:57:07.599
I it just never occurred to me until the second that the way he escaped was but just he was small enough when he was torn apart to whatever essence at the core of whoever Frank is, and I'm not even sure the beings are aware of this, was able to sneak away and exist in our earthly realm.
00:57:07.760 --> 00:57:11.519
I think that's like a really interesting plot point.
00:57:11.840 --> 00:57:13.039
And I think so too.
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:34.239
And I think one thing I'll say here before we continue on um the the whole the whole what we just talked about, what you just said, Frank, about going over the Julia reminiscing about Frank is interspliced with Larry move trying to move the mattress up the stairs, like it flashes back and really quick back and forth.
00:57:34.559 --> 00:57:45.760
And it almost seems like I I'm curious to see, like, I wonder if like if this was filmed in a more like recent time, if this would have been like a masturbation scene or something.
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:50.639
I only say that because the scene seemingly ramps up an intensity.
00:57:50.800 --> 00:58:08.000
She it's it's it's about to end while she's being uh while they're having sex, and that's interspliced with Larry's hand, getting closer and closer to the nail, and that part of the memory finishes as he rips his hand open on the nail, and she seems to like be breathing a little faster.
00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:11.199
She's her memory seems to be more intense and she's reminiscent about it.
00:58:11.440 --> 00:58:14.960
So I'm curious if that was kind of the idea for a bit.
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:18.719
Um, but I just thought that was kind of interesting to remark upon.
00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:27.280
So the floorboards begin to bow and creak, releasing what appears to be pussy formations.
00:58:28.320 --> 00:58:44.880
Two small, narrow, bug-like appendages erupt from the floor and attach themselves to what appear to be a brain, oozing and gooey, creating what appears to be barely a human.
00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:56.000
And what I find interesting here is that it didn't take a lot of blood to move this thing along quite far in its transformation.
00:58:57.199 --> 00:59:03.599
Yeah, the like unless unless he really did leak leak leak a liter of blood in the floor.
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:13.199
Um but I thought this in the whole movie, this is probably the closest we get to seeing like thing level practical effects.
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:30.000
Um you see a lot of like emergence here, a lot of goo, like tissues sliding over other tissues, um, a lot of cool reverse camera work to get the effects of like the rib cage coming together and the head coming together.
00:59:30.079 --> 00:59:33.920
I thought that was like this scene is like so gnarly.
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.559
I I I actually kind of want to rewatch it after this.
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:37.599
We're done, we're done doing this.
00:59:37.920 --> 00:59:38.800
Yeah, actually that's true.
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:55.280
And it's funny because like we were talking about this earlier, but like the fact that this is a horror movie, but it has this fly level of special effect in it, I think lends credibility to it and actually makes it far more interesting.
00:59:55.840 --> 01:00:00.960
Because it's not it, it's almost a creature feature, like in some way.
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:02.320
And I like that.
01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:03.519
I thought that was really interesting.
01:00:03.679 --> 01:00:03.920
Yeah.
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:09.039
Oh, I think beyond this, we don't we don't explore this again, in my opinion.
01:00:09.199 --> 01:00:14.480
But I think this small scene, and again, could be budget, could be whatever.
01:00:14.639 --> 01:00:32.079
I I just think it was a really cool touch because they could have just started from Frank as you know, that skeletal fleshy being, but they went like the full distance to create this effect, which I thought was really neat.
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:32.880
All right.
01:00:33.119 --> 01:00:37.920
Later that evening, Julia hears a noise from above and begins to explore.
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:46.719
She hears whispers coming to a crescendo before going silent as she opens the door to the coital chamber.
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:48.400
That's what I'm calling it from now on.
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:49.840
This is what I'm gonna call it.
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:54.400
So a decaying hand grabs hold of her leg and she cries out.
01:00:54.639 --> 01:01:00.480
The creature calls out her name Julia and asks her not to look at him.
01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:06.159
It asks her for help, and she whimperingly says, Tell me who you are.
01:01:06.400 --> 01:01:12.159
He says it's Frank, that it's really him, and that the blood on the floor brought him back.
01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:19.519
She asks from where, but all he says is, Please, God, just help me.
01:01:19.840 --> 01:01:25.199
Frank says the blood brought him this far, but that he needs more.
01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:41.599
Now, this is where I know I've been making jokes about good dick, but this is where I'm like, how far would I go for this thing?
01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:44.239
Like, this isn't hot Frank.
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:52.719
This is like, is it in the hopes that this thing will get hot again that sparks her like whole adventure?
01:01:52.960 --> 01:02:06.320
Like, uh maybe it's because she sees like I think this would be the ultimate turn off this this goopy monster, but like uh, like I said, she he looks like a skinless this quote, a skinless hell demon, and she's like, I can fix him.
01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:08.719
Um, I just think it's so funny.
01:02:08.800 --> 01:02:21.360
Like, I think she just came off that super horny dream and that super horny flashback, and she's like, Well, maybe you know he can come back the way he was, and we can bang all the time.
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:26.239
This is what I would call an investment in a startup.
01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:29.599
Yeah, yeah, that's so true.
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:36.480
It's like like you gotta believe this will work, but anyway, she she doesn't she doesn't hop on right away.
01:02:36.639 --> 01:02:43.199
Anyway, I did want to tell you that Barker is an outspoken admirer of the Italian gore director Lucio Falci.
01:02:43.519 --> 01:03:02.800
And in such moments as the one that we just talked about, it shows horror is like science fiction, a genre where the makeup effects person can be a matinee star, and Hellraiser elevated Bob Keane to something close to Tom Savini level celebrity.
01:03:03.039 --> 01:03:22.320
It was Keane, who also is in part two or takes part in uh Part 2, who helped create the different skinned Franks, played by actor Oliver Smith, chosen because he was enough of a weedy ectomorph to still appear stripped down beneath built-up layers of heavy makeup.
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.599
So again, we talked about them being different actors.
01:03:25.840 --> 01:03:31.199
Uh, it is Oliver Smith who plays Frank until the end of the film.
01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:44.639
Later that evening, Julia enters the coital chamber and confirms she'll do what it takes to get Frank the bloody requires to reconstruct himself, realizing that yes, he will get hot again and fuck her.
01:03:44.880 --> 01:03:46.159
I don't know why I wrote it.
01:03:50.719 --> 01:04:04.320
Like, this is like this is the thing about this character, Julia, and like she like the evilness to which she subscribes just to get laid by this guy is insane.
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:06.480
Oh, 100%.
01:04:07.199 --> 01:04:11.360
Like it's true, but at the beginning, she is very hesitant.
01:04:11.519 --> 01:04:16.880
Like, she returns to the attic to let him know that yes, she will do it.
01:04:17.039 --> 01:04:21.760
Like, she had to go think about it, she had to weigh the pros and cons and come back.
01:04:22.159 --> 01:04:22.960
That's really good though.
01:04:23.360 --> 01:04:25.760
Is in hopes that he will get hot again and fuck her.
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:27.039
That is why she's doing it.
01:04:27.199 --> 01:04:29.360
I'm very happy that she considered it, you know.
01:04:29.599 --> 01:04:30.800
Yeah, she considered it.
01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:37.280
Like, at least, you know, she does have some low level of morality on display here, slightly.
01:04:38.159 --> 01:04:49.440
So now, according to Barker himself, one of the women on set suggested the film should be titled What a Woman Will Do for a Good Fuck.
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:52.800
That's awesome.
01:04:53.679 --> 01:04:57.280
That really does kind of like sum up what this entire movie is about.
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:00.320
Actually, though, like for like a hundred percent.
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:05.119
None of these, none of the events past Frank disappearing or recon.
01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:10.880
I guess none of the events past his reconstitution would happen if it weren't for Julia.
01:05:11.440 --> 01:05:17.039
No, but also like, isn't she curious why he's like a blob of flesh and bone?
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:19.679
She just cares about one bone.
01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:24.000
Like, she doesn't really care about that.
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:27.519
Like, she's not at all curious, and P.S.
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:31.760
Nobody goes up to this attic but her.
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:32.159
No.
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:34.639
That room's not that room is a desk.
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:42.480
Like, that room looks evil and looks like it's Red of the Evil Dead, and yet everyone's just like, yeah, whatever.
01:05:42.719 --> 01:05:45.360
Like we don't have to go in there, do we?
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:51.760
Maybe it's one of those projects that you're like, okay, I'll do everything first, and then I'll get to it later.
01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:55.280
Like that, that could be a gore that's at the front of the house.
01:05:55.440 --> 01:05:57.039
Or I think it is.
01:05:57.360 --> 01:05:59.119
It is at the front of the house.
01:05:59.280 --> 01:05:59.519
Yeah.
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:01.760
Like, I don't know.
01:06:02.480 --> 01:06:06.480
Now, Kirsty, who I just haven't mentioned at all, she's Kirsty.
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:11.519
Okay, Kirstie is a side dish for the first part of the film, so I just haven't talked much about her.
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:17.679
She has a bad dream that night of a bloody corpse who turns out to be her father.
01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:20.480
And when she awakes, she calls her dad Larry.
01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:24.880
Larry confirms he's alright, never better, and the two hang up.
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:37.840
The reason I bring up this seemingly like nothing scene is just to highlight that perhaps Kirstie has some low-level clairvoyance or is in tune with something happening at the house.
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:52.320
Because it's an odd scene to put in there, and you could throw the scene away and be like, I don't care about it, but I do think it's interesting that she has a premonition of harm being done to her dad, which does happen.
01:06:52.559 --> 01:06:55.599
I also just I really like this aesthetically.
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:58.079
Like, I think stylistically, I just love this scene.
01:06:58.239 --> 01:07:06.559
I just like that there's like feathers acting kind of like snow, and it's like this white sheet that like it starts to seep with blood.
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:11.119
I just think as a one-off scene, I I really liked I really like it.
01:07:11.199 --> 01:07:11.840
I liked it a lot.
01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:12.480
I love the scene.
01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:13.760
Yeah, it's cool.
01:07:14.320 --> 01:07:20.000
So we transition to the next day where Julia is on the hunt for Red October.
01:07:20.559 --> 01:07:21.360
Blood.
01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:23.599
Red October.
01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:42.320
She endures this is so funny to me because I think women do this a lot when confronted by men, but she endures boring conversation and she entices a gentleman back to the home.
01:07:42.880 --> 01:07:50.239
He says it's not often he uh and she says there's a first time for everything.
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:59.599
The two begin to kiss, she begins to quiver with the realization of what she's about to do to this fellow, but says, Let's go upstairs.
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:19.680
Now, Andrew, I have hooked up with many a man, and I don't know about you, but if I entered a rat-infested, wallpaper-torn, window-covered, dilapidated piece of shit room like this, I would probably get the fuck out of the house.
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:37.119
Yeah, I did this is the debate that I think I I had with myself too is like, so this guy is so horny, he allows himself to derbe in a completely desolate, like empty, barren room with no lighting and just a cold wooden floor.
01:08:37.359 --> 01:08:38.319
And rats.
01:08:38.560 --> 01:08:39.439
And rats.
01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:44.399
And I still think there's men that would do that.
01:08:44.640 --> 01:08:46.640
I think like that's I do too.
01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:54.159
I think when I read like the sometimes on Reddit, they'll be like, ask Reddit, like, what's like the stupidest thing you did because you're a horny?
01:08:54.319 --> 01:09:01.760
There's some pretty like people will do will go to lengths, like if they're desperate to get laid.
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:04.399
They will some people will put up with a lot.
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:06.720
And he obviously thinks she's like really hot.
01:09:06.880 --> 01:09:11.359
He actually says, he says, This isn't the bedroom, what's going on?
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:14.720
And she replies, they don't need a bed, do they?
01:09:15.279 --> 01:09:29.439
She's always preferred the floor, and the two it's just funny because like she is so hot to him, and I do actually think that she is an attractive woman.
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:37.600
Like, I don't necessarily think she's like maybe conventionally attractive, but I think there's something really sexy about this actress.
01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:43.039
But this guy, like you said, will just he's like, Yeah, I guess.
01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:44.720
Yeah.
01:09:45.039 --> 01:09:54.960
So the two begin to kiss right before she bludgeons the poor bastard with a hammer, spilling his blood and feeding the Frank monster.
01:09:56.159 --> 01:10:05.039
So this is Julia's first kill, and she does seem like both exhilarated and disturbed by it.
01:10:05.279 --> 01:10:06.239
Yeah, you're right.
01:10:06.319 --> 01:10:14.399
Like when she's she's in the bathroom to like clean herself up a little bit, and like we get a shot of the camera that's a dead-on angle of her face.
01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:29.039
Her face is right up against right up the camera, which is meant to be the mirror, and it's a cool um bit of acting, I'd say, to her struggling with the fact that she killed someone, but also like accepting that that's how it is.
01:10:29.359 --> 01:10:34.960
Like, yeah, but we there's a couple scenes here, like you say, like dead shots of her.
01:10:35.119 --> 01:10:45.279
This is why I think she's such a good actor, because this scene, she's like, you can see that there is a thread of morality here.
01:10:46.000 --> 01:10:56.880
Like she like positive morality, like like she she does recognize what she just did was wrong and hard, and she doesn't feel good about it.
01:10:57.039 --> 01:11:02.560
But then part of her is like turned on and excited by it.
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:04.319
So there's a this is really important.
01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:10.479
Like the bathroom scene that you mentioned is kind of a little bit of a a change here for Julia.
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:19.760
Yeah, I think it's a great moment, and like it's kind of the turning point for her character, like uh really committing to what she's gonna do going forward.
01:11:20.079 --> 01:11:20.720
Yeah.
01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:28.880
So she returns to the room, she sees the corpse of the man, seemingly deflated and used.
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:34.239
As an advanced stage, Frank appears in the corner, letting her know it's making him whole again.
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:39.520
He says to Julia, Come to Daddy, that he wants to touch her.
01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:47.039
And despite his form, she reluctantly agrees, but is interrupted by Larry, who has come home from work.
01:11:47.279 --> 01:11:55.199
This is the other thing that I was kind of like wondering is Larry kind of just pops home.
01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:09.039
So I don't know if he's home early, but she doesn't seem to care that she's bringing men back to the house to be murdered, or that Frank will be discovered in the attic.
01:12:09.199 --> 01:12:14.000
Like, none of this seems to be a concern of hers.
01:12:14.159 --> 01:12:24.319
I'm curious if like maybe I think he did come home early because like she it's the that is a very tight timeline to bring a man home and then your husband shows up like 10 minutes later.
01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:26.479
So I'm gonna guess he popped home.
01:12:26.720 --> 01:12:28.880
Also, Frank's makeup is really good.
01:12:29.199 --> 01:12:33.600
Again, it's seeping with moisture and probably a lot of KY jelly.
01:12:33.680 --> 01:12:36.560
Um, and I wanted to point out my friend made this remark.
01:12:36.640 --> 01:12:38.960
Um, my friend Max, we were watching this the other two.
01:12:39.279 --> 01:12:43.199
Uh, she'd rather help out a literal corpse than sleep with her husband.
01:12:43.279 --> 01:12:52.000
Like, even at this point, she sees goopy Frank and she's like, Yep, this this is this is the right way.
01:12:52.479 --> 01:12:55.840
Might I add, he doesn't look like Frank.
01:12:56.239 --> 01:12:56.560
No.
01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:04.399
Like at this point, even if he started to like slowly resemble him, I just I would be slightly more inclined to murder again.
01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:08.319
But if you look like this fucking dude, I might change my mind.
01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:18.319
I also love too that like he's like, I have to touch you, and it's not like a romantic embrace that he like fondles her breast for a split second, and then Larry comes home.
01:13:18.640 --> 01:13:21.439
Dude, that's more than fucking Larry's been doing to her.
01:13:21.520 --> 01:13:22.800
Like, I guess so, man.
01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:24.079
Jesus.
01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:32.000
So as he ascends the staircase, we see Julia bringing the deflated corpse to the bathroom, pretending to take a shower.
01:13:32.159 --> 01:13:34.399
She says she's feeling sick.
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:45.359
Julia returns to the coital chamber where Frank tells her he needs maybe one or two more to heal completely, but she protests, saying, not again.
01:13:45.840 --> 01:13:53.600
And I think, like I mentioned before, like I've seen this movie so many times, but I didn't really clock how distraught she actually is.
01:13:53.760 --> 01:13:57.199
And the fact that, like, she doesn't just want to do this again.
01:13:57.520 --> 01:13:59.279
She says no.
01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:00.880
She's like, I can't do it again.
01:14:00.960 --> 01:14:02.640
Like, it was so disturbing.
01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:05.600
I get it, but I can't do it.
01:14:06.079 --> 01:14:13.920
He also tells her it's only a matter of time before the cenobites find him, that he needs to get away from here.
01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:19.119
But their conversation doesn't explore the cenobites.
01:14:19.359 --> 01:14:21.760
Like, yeah, he doesn't say anything.
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:23.199
Does he say the word cenobite?
01:14:23.279 --> 01:14:25.920
I think it's like he says the cenobites, yes.
01:14:26.079 --> 01:14:27.039
Oh, I thought you said they.
01:14:27.119 --> 01:14:28.560
Okay, so this is no, no, no.
01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:30.239
He says the cenobites, yes.
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:31.039
That's cool.
01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:45.600
And like, I I again I do I do like that, like she does come across as evil a few times already in this movie, but I think at least at least she's wrestling with the morality of killing again.
01:14:45.920 --> 01:14:56.720
Yeah, she's a little bit disturbed by the fact because I think like thinking of something and doing something are two different things, and the fact that she just did it, now she's thinking about it going, like, holy fuck, I just did that.
01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:03.520
Like, I am a murderous bitch, yeah, and has like reluctance toward doing it again.
01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:10.159
But of course, this is the other funny thing, too, is like Frank so easily waylays Julia.
01:15:10.319 --> 01:15:20.960
So he assures Julia that they can be together the way they were before, aka backing on that bed, that they belong to each other now.
01:15:21.279 --> 01:15:26.239
And Julia seems to like this idea as she licks his fleshless finger.
01:15:26.319 --> 01:15:26.880
Oh, yeah.
01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:30.239
So it doesn't take much, dude.
01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:45.760
I'm surprised you're not making this connection because your point in obsession was that Nikki would use sex to placate Bear, and this is the same thing.
01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:56.880
The promise of a good time for this woman who hasn't had a good time since probably the last time they got together, is enough to make her go on a murderous rampage.
01:15:57.920 --> 01:15:58.720
It's true.
01:15:59.359 --> 01:16:00.239
That's true, though.
01:16:00.479 --> 01:16:07.840
And I will say in part two, she is dude, you have to watch part two immediately because it carries on her story.
01:16:08.000 --> 01:16:09.359
Anyway, I digress.
01:16:09.600 --> 01:16:12.319
So I don't even know why I mentioned this, but I thought I would.
01:16:12.399 --> 01:16:21.039
So we cut to a pet store where it appears Kirsty is hard at work, but she is interrupted by a seemingly unhoused man eating a handful of crickets.
01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:21.920
Yum.
01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:25.439
She appears disgusted and yells for him to leave.
01:16:25.600 --> 01:16:28.720
As he does, he glares back at her.
01:16:29.279 --> 01:16:36.319
And so when I first watched this movie, I wasn't sure why they popped this scene in.
01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:41.520
And I'm wondering if it's just for us to maintain like a tether to Kirsty as a character.
01:16:41.680 --> 01:16:44.800
But it also makes you wonder like who this man might be.
01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:46.880
Like, is he a guardian angel?
01:16:47.199 --> 01:16:49.199
Is he watching over her?
01:16:49.680 --> 01:16:50.159
Yeah.
01:16:50.319 --> 01:16:51.840
And it's a side quest.
01:16:52.079 --> 01:17:02.960
And it's this, it's a second appearance because um earlier we like again when we do this podcast, obviously that we have little micro scenes that we don't always address.
01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:10.239
But earlier we mentioned how Kirsty was enamored by uh one of the men at that boring ass dinner.
01:17:10.319 --> 01:17:14.720
Um, Kirsty goes on a walk with this guy, it's a one-off scene again.
01:17:14.800 --> 01:17:22.319
I don't think it's that important, but we do see that same homeless man like look at her between this like barn door to like a shed or something.
01:17:22.560 --> 01:17:25.760
Um, so it is his second appearance, and they're like, what the hell?
01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:28.479
Like I was even left wondering, like, what the what's the point of all this?
01:17:28.640 --> 01:17:31.520
So, and then at the end, they kind of bring it home.
01:17:31.600 --> 01:17:33.760
Uh kind of like barely.
01:17:34.000 --> 01:17:38.319
Yeah, it's like in a completely unnecessary, like it's a completely unnecessary.
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:44.800
I honestly feel like this is like this weird thing to tether us to Kirsty.
01:17:44.880 --> 01:17:55.039
And also, I again want to push on this idea that like there may be something special about her, and that she somehow because this has nothing to do with the puzzle box, right?
01:17:55.119 --> 01:18:00.560
Like, this is she seems to have a connection with forces beyond Earth.
01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:03.840
Well, that's my working theory.
01:18:04.319 --> 01:18:10.479
So we cut back to Julia who hammers the head of another unsuspecting victim to feed her boyfriend.
01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:11.840
And is it me?
01:18:12.079 --> 01:18:18.479
Or is she increasingly becoming more evil and satisfied with every kill?
01:18:18.800 --> 01:18:37.760
And the reason I bring this up is because you juxtapose the bathroom scene with a small scene here where she's all dressed in white, hair slicked back, while she kind of enjoys a drink with Larry, and they do that same eye thing that you mentioned earlier, but there seems to be like a little glimmer in her eye this time.
01:18:38.239 --> 01:18:46.560
Like, not only is she getting used to it, but that she enjoys it, and she's starting to turn more diabolical.
01:18:47.760 --> 01:19:01.680
Yeah, it's in fact, by the time we get to the third kill, it's very matter of fact of her leading the man there and grabbing the the way she grabs the hammer, she's not trembling, she's not, she just grabs it and goes to town on the guy.
01:19:02.000 --> 01:19:06.079
It's like business, she is a serial killer, yeah.
01:19:07.119 --> 01:19:14.640
And she's she at this point, she's very much justified at like, yep, let's do this, let's get this over with so Frank can come back to life and fuck me.
01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:21.520
And mind you, the first thing they do is fuck.
01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:22.880
Yeah, absolutely, yeah.
01:19:23.199 --> 01:19:26.000
And we'll talk about if that's weird, okay.
01:19:26.239 --> 01:19:35.199
So we transition to Frank, who dons a white dress shirt, I'm assuming one of Larry's, smoking a cigarette, saying he can almost taste it.
01:19:35.520 --> 01:19:39.279
Julia says he promised her an explanation.
01:19:39.520 --> 01:19:47.119
So Frank holds up the puzzle box, telling her it opens doors to the pleasures of heaven or hell, and that he didn't care which.
01:19:47.600 --> 01:19:53.760
He says the Cenobites gave him an experience beyond the limits, pain and pleasure.
01:19:54.159 --> 01:20:03.279
And then we kind of flash back to Frank hung upside down in the torture chamber, hooks spilling blood from his body.
01:20:03.600 --> 01:20:07.199
It appears Julia can see this as well, and she gasps.
01:20:07.680 --> 01:20:13.359
Frank says they won't get me back, and Julia assures him they'll never find us.
01:20:13.520 --> 01:20:14.880
Although, how the fuck would she know?
01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:17.439
But she seems really, really certain.
01:20:17.680 --> 01:20:24.159
So we do get a little bit of an answer to the question I asked earlier, which was, what was he doing with the box?
01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:29.600
You gave the explanation that he's trying to push the limits of pleasure and pain, and you're exactly right.
01:20:29.920 --> 01:20:39.039
So somehow he knew, he found out about this, he attained it, and then he was able to explore whatever that was.
01:20:39.359 --> 01:20:49.119
I think the box, in my mind, I think the lament configuration is like it's kind of like the Necronomicon in that sense that it lures people to it as well.
01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:58.159
Like it's not like I think someone like Frank, with like the basic of research, would have found it up with this thing because it would have found its way to him.
01:20:59.039 --> 01:21:02.319
Yeah, and then he went to Egypt.
01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:03.840
Yeah, we don't know.
01:21:04.079 --> 01:21:09.359
We have an undescript undescript, like yeah, desert location, Arabian location, I think.
01:21:09.439 --> 01:21:27.520
So Exorcist does this as well, where it's like, I don't I don't know where it is, but they seem to take place in these like unlike misunderstood foreign lands where you can attain these objects of absolute destruction and then bring them back to wholesome America.
01:21:27.920 --> 01:21:42.000
Whenever you're obtaining like in the 80s and 90s, uh, whenever you're obtaining an artifact of power, you just throw some sand in the background and some cool sandstone archways, and you got yourself an Arabian location like Egypt or something.
01:21:42.720 --> 01:21:43.600
Okay, but you're right.
01:21:43.760 --> 01:21:50.960
I I do think you I do think you have a point though where I do think the box is probably attracted to someone as sadistic as Frank and as evil as Frank.
01:21:51.119 --> 01:21:56.560
And I think too, in this flashback where you we see him, I think he's hanging upside down, bleeding.
01:21:56.800 --> 01:22:01.199
I is it this scene where we kind of see him, he's kind of enjoying it, or is that later?
01:22:01.279 --> 01:22:01.920
Is that the end of the movie?
01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:02.560
I'm trying to forget.
01:22:02.720 --> 01:22:05.680
No, this you are absolutely correct.
01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:15.520
This is to illustrate the fact that the chains are inside of him and he's bleeding, but he's like writhing in pleasure and ecstasy.
01:22:15.920 --> 01:22:17.600
It's both, yeah.
01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:25.279
But I think part of the centibytes is their ability to make like again, like juxtaposed like extreme pleasure with extreme pain.
01:22:25.359 --> 01:22:34.479
So even if he didn't want to experience the pleasure, it's almost like you have no choice because they're inflicting it upon you.
01:22:34.960 --> 01:22:45.359
So it's like I think when he's yeah, I I just think I what I I think though, I think with this realm, the the this this place, I think it wouldn't be that way for everybody, though.
01:22:45.439 --> 01:22:53.520
Like if if if Kirstie or like myself or someone else opened the box and went there, I'd it would probably just feel like torture, like I'd be beating tortured to death.
01:22:53.600 --> 01:23:00.960
Whereas like someone like him who's wired for this, I think it's very much like meant for someone like him.
01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:08.640
Like it's very much like he loves the the pain is arousing, it is sexually gratifying for him in this in this realm.
01:23:08.880 --> 01:23:12.399
Whereas I just don't think that would be the same way for everybody.
01:23:12.720 --> 01:23:21.840
No, no, I absolutely later when we have Pinhead, he says we're angels to some, demons to others.
01:23:23.279 --> 01:23:23.600
Okay.
01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:30.000
So, you know, I mentioned earlier that like, you know, this is probably been going on for like one to two weeks, I'm guessing.
01:23:30.079 --> 01:23:34.239
And like Larry like has never entered this room.
01:23:34.479 --> 01:23:37.840
And and somehow, like, it just like it's just like a rat.
01:23:38.079 --> 01:23:44.800
They haven't even addressed the rat problem in the house, which I actually think is the most unbelievable part.
01:23:45.039 --> 01:23:56.399
Like, if I had to believe that a box could bring me to a cosmic dimension, I would have an easier time believing that than someone not addressing their rat problem in their attic for like two weeks.
01:23:56.720 --> 01:24:02.319
Yeah, I just would not like that house, is like when we see the house in disrepair, it's like pretty gross.
01:24:02.479 --> 01:24:07.760
I know they I know they clean it up and stuff, but that's the thing, is like no one like barely, yeah.
01:24:07.840 --> 01:24:09.279
It's like barely cleaned up.
01:24:09.600 --> 01:24:16.159
And I I no one would be okay with the amount of rats that are in the I know, yeah.
01:24:17.039 --> 01:24:23.119
So he does hear a noise upstairs, and he says, We'll go together.
01:24:23.359 --> 01:24:29.760
So Julia, like obviously, she pleads with him suspiciously, saying she hates the thunder.
01:24:30.159 --> 01:24:42.079
And as the two enter the room, they find nothing but the existing rat infestation, two of whom are pinned to the wall with nails, and they decide to do nothing about it.
01:24:42.319 --> 01:24:52.319
So the way that Julia dissuades Larry from going into the room is by placating him with sex, yeah.
01:24:53.119 --> 01:25:00.479
And this is like a cra- it's just funny as we've been doing obsession and then this film, like how much of a theme that has become.
01:25:01.119 --> 01:25:17.920
And I don't even think like Julia only wants to use it enough to make Larry divert his attention, but then his response to that is he wants to make love to Julia, like submitting to her advances.
01:25:19.199 --> 01:25:38.560
I actually like it's it's kind of sad, like this whole the whole scene of them like her trying to stop him going up to the to the attic, or like you almost get some look into their marriage for a brief little period here, because like we get very limited dialogue exchange with these two in the movie.
01:25:38.640 --> 01:25:41.920
Yeah, it's like very much quick exchanges of task.
01:25:42.239 --> 01:25:50.079
Whereas, like, this is like you can see how maybe he was charmed by her, like she's using a nice voice with him for the first time.
01:25:50.319 --> 01:25:56.640
She's like, please, like she's like she's talking to him like a partner might talk, like a wife might talk to a husband, and vice versa.
01:25:56.960 --> 01:26:27.840
And it's kind of for me, it's just it's kind of sad because like Larry's is just like this, he's just this oblivious to the the person he's married to, and like the the way that she clearly does is not in love with them, and like it's just like sad that you can almost see a glimpse here of maybe when they first met it was nice like this, only for her to really be using this to not to like not go in that room.
01:26:28.159 --> 01:26:32.960
But it's funny because like you said, like when Larry hears a noise upstairs, like what is Frank doing?
01:26:33.119 --> 01:26:33.520
Who knows?
01:26:33.680 --> 01:26:35.439
And why wouldn't they just assume it's the rats?
01:26:35.600 --> 01:26:35.920
Who knows?
01:26:36.079 --> 01:26:38.319
We actually we actually see what he's doing.
01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:39.920
What is he doing?
01:26:40.079 --> 01:26:47.439
For some reason, Frank is walking back and forth, like running back and forth, like he's doing like like like laps or something.
01:26:47.920 --> 01:26:48.880
He's impatient.
01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:51.600
Yeah, he's like he's like pacing back and forth.
01:26:51.840 --> 01:26:53.279
He wants to ascend.
01:26:53.520 --> 01:26:55.520
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
01:26:55.760 --> 01:27:07.439
So, okay, so as Larry and Julia sort of begin to make love, an angry Frank emerges from the closet with his trusty switchblade, slicing open a rat.
01:27:08.159 --> 01:27:16.640
Julia cries, she can't bear it, and Larry stops saying he just doesn't understand her for departing the bedroom.
01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:23.520
So I don't think Frank wants her making love with anyone else but Frank.
01:27:23.920 --> 01:27:26.079
That is what I took from that moment.
01:27:26.800 --> 01:27:45.520
Yeah, this this scene is there's a couple of disturbing things here from like my point of view, and maybe when so Julia I'll just say, like, Julia starts protesting, she sees Frank, and she's on her back, and we have Larry over her kissing her neck or something like that.
01:27:45.600 --> 01:27:55.760
I think it's very tame, but she's only looking at the closet, and as Frank emerges with the blade in his hand, uh she starts saying no.
01:27:56.960 --> 01:27:59.760
Now, I don't know if this is this no was meant.
01:28:00.159 --> 01:28:15.039
For just the audience or like her internal monologue, but if it's saying out loud, I I do find it kind of like weird that like Larry is not changing behavior or anything while she's saying no a few times.
01:28:15.520 --> 01:28:17.439
And then read it like that.
01:28:17.840 --> 01:28:21.600
I didn't either, I don't, I don't think like I said, I think this is a stylistic choice to like present.
01:28:21.920 --> 01:28:22.800
I do too, 100%.
01:28:23.279 --> 01:28:25.359
Because she says no, I can't bear it.
01:28:25.439 --> 01:28:26.800
I can't stop.
01:28:27.439 --> 01:28:28.960
Whatever this is, is like something.
01:28:29.199 --> 01:28:36.000
This is a moment where I think she's breaking and realizing like holy fuck.
01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:36.479
Yeah.
01:28:36.720 --> 01:28:38.079
What is going on?
01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:44.960
It is super sad for Leary and also a little bit fucked up of Frank.
01:28:45.600 --> 01:28:48.079
Well, yeah, his whole life is fucked up.
01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:55.600
But the thing is, like, she doesn't, it's so weird because she doesn't really know Frank.
01:28:57.039 --> 01:28:58.640
No, she's as a person, no.
01:28:58.720 --> 01:29:02.640
She's she only knows him for like, and there are people that exist that way.
01:29:02.720 --> 01:29:06.000
Like, she they it's for her, it's been carnal desire.
01:29:06.079 --> 01:29:09.920
Like, it's not like they've had to live together and get groceries and sort out bills.
01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:16.800
Like, like she with him lives in this, she can live in a fantasy land, and that's what that's what keeps her going on this murderous spree.
01:29:17.359 --> 01:29:30.720
But it's interesting because like she sees him cut open a rat with this switchblade and somehow finds this acceptable behavior.
01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:32.319
Like she doesn't know him.
01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:32.800
I don't know.
01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:45.680
I just I just found that I found the scene actually really odd more than I found it uh like interesting or related to the plot in any way, but that's just my own thought.
01:29:46.000 --> 01:29:56.239
Yeah, I think it's I think it's maybe just to show us Frank's possession over his playthings, you know, over these people that he has like complete power over.
01:29:56.560 --> 01:29:57.439
Yeah, exactly.
01:29:57.520 --> 01:29:58.319
That's his life.
01:29:58.479 --> 01:29:59.520
You're right, exactly.
01:29:59.840 --> 01:30:05.840
Because we're gonna see later how quickly he is willing to discard someone when something new comes around.
01:30:06.399 --> 01:30:15.119
So, as Julia brings another bow home to beloved Frank, it appears Kirstie is outside and is a witness to her transgression.
01:30:15.279 --> 01:30:23.920
It's interesting because this time, as she brings the man upstairs, she doesn't even feign interest, but gets right down to business.
01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:33.600
As she attempts to swing the old hammer, Frank intervenes to complete the kill, puncturing the man's neck with his bare hands.
01:30:33.920 --> 01:30:38.880
Yeah, and this is I I like this for I like the not irony.
01:30:38.960 --> 01:30:47.680
I love I love what this means to Kirsty and versus what the audience knows is like from Kirstie's eyes, she probably thinks that Julia's just cheating on her dad.
01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:50.399
Whereas like it's so much worse than that.
01:30:50.720 --> 01:30:59.760
Like Julia's bringing these guys home to be murdered and siphoned, blood siphoned by Frank.
01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:02.079
Uh like, why would you think that?
01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:09.920
It's just like it's just she's like, she's a cheating bitch, but really she's like a blood succubus feeding bitch.
01:31:10.159 --> 01:31:11.760
Yeah, it's just cheater.
01:31:12.159 --> 01:31:15.840
I mean, she's gonna soon find the truth out here, but uh yeah, yeah.
01:31:16.079 --> 01:31:25.840
So she gains entry into the house, Kirsty, ascends the stairs, and is greeted by the bloated suitor, consumed by the succubus.
01:31:26.159 --> 01:31:34.239
It asks her for help, but is pulled away by her dear Uncle Frank, who tells her it's Uncle Frank, and shows, you know what's so weird?
01:31:34.479 --> 01:31:38.159
I am an Uncle Frank in this so fucking bizarre.
01:31:38.319 --> 01:31:42.479
But anyway, so Uncle Frank shoves her into the attic room.
01:31:42.640 --> 01:31:49.760
She says, This isn't happening, but he tells her not to kid herself, that some things have to be endured.
01:31:50.159 --> 01:31:59.680
Instead of falling prey to her uncle, she punctures his weak, fleshy stomach with her hand before grabbing the puzzle box and tossing it out the window.
01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:04.239
This distracts Frank just enough for her to escape the chamber.
01:32:04.560 --> 01:32:09.359
As she flees the house, she grabs the puzzle box and takes it with her.
01:32:09.600 --> 01:32:12.880
So now Frank is boxless.
01:32:13.439 --> 01:32:20.880
Yeah, and like this scene, this scene has some more disturbing undertones than Oh, yes.
01:32:21.119 --> 01:32:28.159
Like, so uh one thing that's essential to note here is that Frank says to Christy, come to Daddy.
01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:28.800
Oh yeah.
01:32:28.960 --> 01:32:32.000
Uh, it's his iconic line that he uses on his lovers.
01:32:32.239 --> 01:32:42.000
Um, we know he says it to Julia, and here he has her pressed up against the wall, and he's basically like has his face in her face, sniffing her and stuff.
01:32:42.319 --> 01:32:49.520
And I, in my opinion, I have no doubt he might be going to like force himself on her in this scene.
01:32:49.760 --> 01:32:58.239
Um, but then the puzzle box completely snaps him out of this like thirsty fucking attack.
01:32:58.479 --> 01:33:00.399
Um, and he's that's when he freaks out.
01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:05.199
It's like, no, don't, you know, he freaks, and then she throws out the window and she's you want the box, go get it, whatever.
01:33:05.600 --> 01:33:14.079
You know what's weird too, is I also feel like not only that, but that he was also going to consume her in order to like complete his transition.
01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:17.119
I think that I think, yeah, I think it was like a two for one for him.
01:33:17.600 --> 01:33:18.159
Yeah, totally.
01:33:18.399 --> 01:33:19.279
And twofer.
01:33:20.720 --> 01:33:21.600
A twofer.
01:33:22.079 --> 01:33:26.319
And it's the come to daddy line is very important for later.
01:33:26.560 --> 01:33:31.600
Uh, because we're gonna it it it lets Kirsty know in a later scene.
01:33:31.840 --> 01:33:36.960
So Kirsty awakes in a hospital having fainted outdoors after the run-in with Frank.
01:33:37.199 --> 01:33:39.520
She says she has to call her father.
01:33:39.760 --> 01:33:46.640
The doctor pulls the box from his pocket and asks her if she knows anything about it, that the police will want to speak with her.
01:33:47.199 --> 01:33:58.560
Uh, she begins toying with the box, and small electrodes emerge forth before the box migrates to another formation and opens what appears to be a portal.
01:33:59.600 --> 01:34:04.720
She enters a narrow hallway where she hears cries in the distance.
01:34:04.960 --> 01:34:24.560
And like I said earlier, spoiler, if you like anything about this scene, the fact that there is like a portal, a hallway, another dimension, part two heavily explores the totality of what that actually looks like beyond just this hallway.
01:34:24.880 --> 01:34:27.279
And so, if you're interested, you should definitely check it out.
01:34:27.439 --> 01:34:28.880
Yeah, it's well reviewed on IMD.
01:34:29.119 --> 01:34:29.680
I'm gonna watch it.
01:34:29.920 --> 01:34:31.119
I'm gonna watch it like if I can't watch it.
01:34:31.520 --> 01:34:33.840
Tonight, I'm gonna watch it next week for sure.
01:34:34.239 --> 01:34:37.439
So she continues down the dark hallway.
01:34:37.600 --> 01:34:42.720
She sees a giant humanoid creature at the end of the hall and it begins to chase her.
01:34:43.119 --> 01:34:53.439
This creature reminds me so much of creatures from Nightmare Elm Street in the Mouth of Madness and other like 80s like creature features that you can see.
01:34:53.600 --> 01:34:54.960
This is an Aldra to Bombs.
01:34:55.439 --> 01:34:56.800
Yeah, a hundred percent.
01:34:56.960 --> 01:34:57.439
Yeah.
01:34:57.680 --> 01:35:05.840
And what's really cool here is like, really quick, just from a funny thing, is you can actually see the wheels of the um apparatus this thing is on, like for the effects.
01:35:05.920 --> 01:35:08.479
Like you can see the the cartwheels on the ground.
01:35:08.560 --> 01:35:09.439
It's kind of funny.
01:35:09.680 --> 01:35:12.399
Oh, I did I need to see that again.
01:35:12.479 --> 01:35:20.079
You can definitely tell it is a human in a suit, and the head of the demon is like an appendage at their waist.
01:35:20.239 --> 01:35:20.479
Yeah.
01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:30.000
But um, so wait, so she does she does manage to narrowly escape this hungry demon for now and attempts to use the box to make it disappear.
01:35:30.479 --> 01:35:49.680
What she does end up doing is exploring another configuration, which appears to unleash the Cenobites: the chatterer, pinhead, butterball, and the female Cenobite, whom in the novella is called Deep Throat, which I thought was hilarious.
01:35:49.920 --> 01:35:50.560
Yeah.
01:35:51.359 --> 01:35:58.479
And it is not a sexual pun, it is because her throat is pulled open to expose esophagus.
01:35:59.119 --> 01:36:02.399
Hers, it just looks so painful.
01:36:02.640 --> 01:36:06.000
I know, and when she talks, it appears painful.
01:36:06.079 --> 01:36:10.880
And in my opinion, we don't get enough of these cinnabytes at all.
01:36:11.039 --> 01:36:14.000
Like we get two lines from her, and that's it.
01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:16.319
And she does not come back for part two.
01:36:16.960 --> 01:36:17.680
Oh, really?
01:36:17.920 --> 01:36:18.800
That's a shame.
01:36:19.199 --> 01:36:20.479
I know, this is great.
01:36:20.640 --> 01:36:25.840
So Pinhead tells Kirstie, you opened it, and we came.
01:36:26.479 --> 01:36:27.359
Iconic line.
01:36:27.920 --> 01:36:35.119
Yeah, he tells her, as aforementioned, they are demons to some, angels to others.
01:36:36.079 --> 01:36:41.680
He goes on to say that because she summoned them, she must taste their pleasures.
01:36:42.319 --> 01:36:48.399
Kirstie cries out to them, asking if they've done this to a man named Frank Cotton.
01:36:48.720 --> 01:36:53.920
She tells them that he escaped them, that she's seen him, that he's alive.
01:36:54.399 --> 01:36:58.640
Her plan is to lead the Cenobites to Frank in place of herself.
01:36:58.960 --> 01:37:08.319
And Pinhead does say he wants to hear Frank confess, but if she cheats them, they'll tear her soul apart.
01:37:08.640 --> 01:37:13.199
And what I find what I find really cool with this is that they didn't know he escaped.
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:16.800
No, when she first suggested No, he escaped.
01:37:17.199 --> 01:37:17.680
Yeah, like so.
01:37:17.760 --> 01:37:24.479
Like I like, I like that these Cenobites are not these like omnis omniscient um beings.
01:37:24.560 --> 01:37:41.520
Like they they obviously exist in a physical realm, they obviously have physical limitations themselves because they did not know that Frank escaped until like because um Pinhead at first denies that he escaped and then she like quickly convinces him otherwise.
01:37:41.680 --> 01:37:46.960
Um, and I just like that like she's making a deal like with them.
01:37:47.119 --> 01:37:52.239
Like I I really like this part, like that they are willing to listen to her briefly.
01:37:52.399 --> 01:37:53.279
Like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:37:53.439 --> 01:37:55.600
And I also too I love the line here.
01:37:55.680 --> 01:37:57.520
Um, Pinhead gets very few lines.
01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:59.840
I think it's another iconic line.
01:38:00.079 --> 01:38:05.359
I just um he says, please no tears, they're a waste of good suffering.
01:38:05.680 --> 01:38:12.640
And I think it's an awesome, like metal as hell line um from Pinhead here.
01:38:12.720 --> 01:38:24.800
And like his the dialogue he does get to play with uh in this movie, so many some really iconic and cool lines here, and the gravitas with which he says them.
01:38:24.960 --> 01:38:34.479
I noticed earlier he said, like, you know, he the makeup to do the talking, the uh the the the costume, but his delivery with his voice is fantastic.
01:38:34.720 --> 01:38:35.439
Oh 100%.
01:38:35.760 --> 01:38:37.840
Yeah, he does he does an amazing, amazing job.
01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:42.399
And also I have a small sorry, I have a small nitpick here.
01:38:43.119 --> 01:38:55.359
The ease in which, so we learn here that obviously this box, we talked about this earlier, the different configurations will open up different realms or different pockets, whatever you want to call them.
01:38:55.680 --> 01:39:07.279
I find it interesting the ease in which she plays on a configuration and the Eldritch monster just kind of disappears.
01:39:07.439 --> 01:39:17.760
Like the the ease in which she's able to configure this box in order to do whatever she needs to do, I find a little too easy.
01:39:18.079 --> 01:39:19.600
That's my only nitpick.
01:39:19.840 --> 01:39:20.560
I do too.
01:39:20.640 --> 01:39:22.399
Like it literally is a puzzle box.
01:39:22.560 --> 01:39:33.840
And I think that I think there could have been there's in a story, anyways, if this was like in a book, you could probably have a ton of lore on how this thing works.
01:39:34.239 --> 01:39:40.560
And I know you said, like, I know we watched in in the in the remake, we actually get more lore on those configurations, which I love.
01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:49.680
Um, but I think for the ease of simplicity to make this movie happen, because we still have the third act to like we're entering the third act with this scene.
01:39:49.920 --> 01:39:53.279
Um I think it's just for ease of access to the movie.
01:39:53.359 --> 01:40:00.960
I I think you can't spend too much time here, otherwise the movies, the movie length would would be longer, but maybe it would have been worth it.
01:40:01.039 --> 01:40:01.439
I don't know.
01:40:01.600 --> 01:40:09.039
I think maybe Kirsty somehow maybe even having a scene to show why she's so naturally in tune with the Lament configuration.
01:40:09.359 --> 01:40:22.239
Um dude, I have a hard time with Chinese checkers, and she's like like doing like massively like sophisticated configurations to open and close portals.
01:40:22.399 --> 01:40:22.880
I also love it.
01:40:22.960 --> 01:40:24.640
But I I digress.
01:40:24.880 --> 01:40:25.760
I also love too.
01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:39.199
I think I read somewhere that um with the budgets that they had, they had they constructed several boxes in the different configurations simply because the box itself defies physics with some of its configurations, right?
01:40:39.439 --> 01:40:41.920
I I read that um that they had to be careful.
01:40:42.239 --> 01:40:53.680
I think I read that they had to be careful with these boxes on set because like they only had so many, they were they were like kind of hard to make, and due to budget, they couldn't just like trash these boxes, so like they had to keep care of them.
01:40:53.920 --> 01:40:54.319
Oh my god.
01:40:54.399 --> 01:40:59.359
In part four, they use CGI, and it is a fucking wreck, anyway.
01:40:59.600 --> 01:41:11.840
For the boss, okay, yes, they uh they do, yes, and that's how they're able to do like more sophisticated configurations, but it looks like a picture like early 2000s, I think it's like late 90s, early 2000s, but it's horrific.
01:41:12.000 --> 01:41:16.239
I just watched it today, actually, so it's fresh on the brain how silly it was.
01:41:16.720 --> 01:41:27.760
Okay, so Larry does arrive home, and we cut to a heeled hand gracing Julia's face, leaving a trace of blood.
01:41:28.319 --> 01:41:37.199
And we are meant to assume that Larry was indeed murdered, and Frank has been able to make a full recovery.
01:41:38.159 --> 01:41:57.520
So I don't want to skim over this, but essentially we don't see Frank's face here, but the reaction of the hand on Julia's face is the dead giveaway that indeed they have achieved their goal of killing Larry.
01:41:57.760 --> 01:41:58.319
Yeah.
01:41:59.439 --> 01:42:05.439
Yeah, he's like he's she's like she he strokes her face, and but she's like so into it.
01:42:05.680 --> 01:42:08.000
Oh, she's super in it, and it's bloody.
01:42:08.239 --> 01:42:13.680
Yeah, it's yeah, and then she's I think she finds that even hotter, like the blood mixed with like they're gonna bang.
01:42:13.840 --> 01:42:14.399
Like, I don't know.
01:42:14.560 --> 01:42:15.359
I think it's true.
01:42:15.439 --> 01:42:30.720
I think she like we say we talk about this like trajectory of her character, she really has come full circle to become like a diabolical, demonic, serial killing, sex-crazed human.
01:42:31.119 --> 01:42:37.119
Like, she really has been unlocked or corrupted, or whatever you want to call it.
01:42:37.359 --> 01:42:49.520
And it's funny because the two, despite being worried about the police, Andrew, they make, finally make sweet, hot, loving.
01:42:51.119 --> 01:42:55.279
Do we see, do we not see his face here once they make love?
01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.720
They we only see the back of his head.
01:42:59.039 --> 01:43:00.800
It's only when Kirsty shows up, right?
01:43:00.960 --> 01:43:01.680
Yes, exactly.
01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:07.920
But in but that's the but the scene where they're making love, we still don't know.
01:43:08.159 --> 01:43:15.920
Like, I guess this whole thing is to teat to tell us that, like, yes, Frank is fully formed, but we never see Frank's face.
01:43:16.239 --> 01:43:18.560
But she finally gets fucked.
01:43:18.880 --> 01:43:23.279
And it's like like all her hard work, like this scene is so important.
01:43:23.439 --> 01:43:30.479
It's like after all of the hard blood, sweat, and tears, she's like, fuck the police.
01:43:31.039 --> 01:43:36.479
I really need to get it in because I have worked so fucking damn hard for this.
01:43:36.640 --> 01:43:38.159
You're gonna fuck me now.
01:43:38.399 --> 01:43:45.520
Yeah, I like that like it's it's clearly like the very first thing they would probably get to as soon as Frank reconstituted himself.
01:43:45.840 --> 01:43:53.119
And probably through Julia's head is like, okay, I did kill three people, but this is worth it.
01:43:53.279 --> 01:43:54.880
This is very much worth it.
01:43:55.199 --> 01:44:04.479
Now, I'm going to move on, and then I have some questions about something.
01:44:04.880 --> 01:44:05.199
Okay.
01:44:06.159 --> 01:44:14.960
Kirstie rushes to her father's home, calling for him to let her in, but is instead greeted by her evil stepmother Julia.
01:44:15.279 --> 01:44:22.399
Kirsty demands she wants to see her father, and Julia replies, of course, letting her inside the house.
01:44:22.640 --> 01:44:32.800
When Kirstie heads upstairs, she is greeted by her father, who assures her everything is okay, that Julia told him everything.
01:44:33.520 --> 01:44:42.880
Now, it is important to note here that he has a full-on bloody trail surrounding his face, which she doesn't comment on.
01:44:43.119 --> 01:44:53.039
But my question to you is it is now clear that this is Frank with Larry's face on him.
01:44:54.079 --> 01:44:55.920
What is going on?
01:44:56.640 --> 01:45:05.600
So I'm gonna I I originally I originally thought that when Frank was reconstituting himself, he would just eventually reform into his old body.
01:45:05.920 --> 01:45:13.760
But it's very clear that he's just directly taking parts of these people to reform himself.
01:45:14.000 --> 01:45:20.560
So I think there is never I don't think there was ever a world where Frank was gonna be able to get his old skin back.
01:45:20.720 --> 01:45:37.039
Like I think he his muscles and stuff reconstituted, that's fine, but he he he's taking from these bodies directly, and he had to take the skin, and obviously kill his brother, but take the skin off of Larry.
01:45:37.119 --> 01:45:41.680
He's wearing it his entire all his skin that you're seeing is Larry's skin suit.
01:45:41.920 --> 01:45:44.239
And I find that super disturbing.
01:45:44.319 --> 01:45:50.399
Like I found it really gross too, like the line, the clear line of the face mask he's wearing that's even at the back of his head.
01:45:51.119 --> 01:45:52.000
So clever.
01:45:52.239 --> 01:45:53.520
Can I ask you something?
01:45:53.680 --> 01:45:54.319
Yeah.
01:45:54.640 --> 01:45:59.920
Do you think Julia was aware that he was doing that?
01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:00.800
No, no.
01:46:00.880 --> 01:46:06.880
I think I I don't I almost wish actually, no, I don't almost wish.
01:46:07.039 --> 01:46:07.520
I do wish.
01:46:07.600 --> 01:46:08.479
I remember thinking this.
01:46:08.560 --> 01:46:18.079
I wish we had a scene where we see her see him for the first time as the Larry Frank, like that version of him.
01:46:18.239 --> 01:46:19.600
And I just her response.
01:46:20.000 --> 01:46:21.920
Be utterly fucking disgusted.
01:46:22.159 --> 01:46:30.239
Yeah, like it's like you promised me, because let me tell you, I try and be objective about people's looks.
01:46:30.399 --> 01:46:31.920
I swear I do.
01:46:32.000 --> 01:46:39.600
I try not to categorize people, and I just accept that everyone is unique and interesting in their own way.
01:46:39.840 --> 01:46:54.000
Having said that, when you look at Frank and you look at Larry, and I was promised Frank, but I got Larry, I would be fucking like mortified.
01:46:54.319 --> 01:46:57.600
Yeah, I'm like, sorry, and it's my husband that I don't like.
01:46:57.840 --> 01:46:59.119
There's so many layers to this too.
01:46:59.199 --> 01:47:10.399
Like, yeah, it's like when you like when you want to be with someone that way, like you want to sex someone, the yeah, the the skin and the physicality is like almost number one there.
01:47:10.479 --> 01:47:13.279
It's gonna be in the top three reasons why you're with them.
01:47:13.680 --> 01:47:26.640
And to not only not get the guy that you remember, the person you remember, like you picture this fantasy, this hot fantasy of this person, but then it's not only that, but it's your husband.
01:47:26.800 --> 01:47:30.319
Like it's it's like it's like your ex you're disgusted with.
01:47:30.479 --> 01:47:34.079
Like, it's not just a random person, it's like, oh, it's like my ex.
01:47:34.159 --> 01:47:40.079
I have to like, I know it's the person I want underneath, but it's my ex's skin.
01:47:40.560 --> 01:47:41.680
Like, you know what I mean?
01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:46.479
Like, you just be like, Hey man, love is love, love isn't love isn't skin deep.
01:47:46.800 --> 01:47:49.920
Like, what that's the lesson of the movie, ultimately, correct?
01:47:50.079 --> 01:47:58.000
Yep, I think that is the ultimate lesson is that lust and love do go beyond the, you know, don't judge a book by its cover, guys.
01:47:58.239 --> 01:48:01.680
No, like really get to know, get to know someone.
01:48:02.159 --> 01:48:07.439
So Kirsty tells Larry his brother is upstairs and that he's going to kill him.
01:48:07.600 --> 01:48:12.239
But Larry assures her it's finished now, that he's gone.
01:48:12.560 --> 01:48:20.159
Kirsty seems mildly placated by this, but also in severe disbelief, saying she needs to see him.
01:48:20.479 --> 01:48:24.479
Larry agrees and gestures to Julia to show her.
01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:33.039
And as the two enter the coital chamber, we get a glimpse of a smoking, bloodied corpse on the floorboards.
01:48:33.760 --> 01:48:41.279
Ever the cunning Julia locks Kirsty in the room, and soon we are visited by the Cenobites once again.
01:48:41.600 --> 01:48:45.600
Pinhead says, We want the man who did this.
01:48:46.560 --> 01:48:51.279
Kirstie exits the chamber, calling to her father, they have to get out of here.
01:48:51.520 --> 01:48:55.600
Before he creepily says back, come to daddy.
01:48:56.560 --> 01:49:07.039
It's in this sentence that she quickly realizes this ain't her dad, but rather Frank wearing the skin of her father.
01:49:07.600 --> 01:49:19.439
As he approaches Kirsty to make short work of her with his switchblade, he instead knifes Julia in her gut, murdering her, telling her it's nothing personal, baby.
01:49:20.079 --> 01:49:21.199
And she's toast.
01:49:21.840 --> 01:49:23.439
Why did he kill Julia?
01:49:24.079 --> 01:49:29.119
I you you have to, I think if we look at this one of two ways, okay.
01:49:29.359 --> 01:49:34.640
We can believe Frank from earlier, who said we belong together, that kind of thing.
01:49:34.800 --> 01:49:44.960
Uh, or you we could say he's just I think he is in such a pursuit of sexual experiences.
01:49:45.119 --> 01:49:47.840
I don't think he's in pursuit of human connection.
01:49:48.479 --> 01:49:59.439
And so despite Julia doing all this shit for him, and I think maybe this is an allegory for you know some married married men out there or men out there.
01:50:00.159 --> 01:50:09.199
Is like this one girl literally murders, becomes a serial killer for this guy, is quickly discarded for the hot new thing on the block, right?
01:50:09.279 --> 01:50:14.159
It's it's Kirsty's younger, she's supple, you know what I mean?
01:50:14.239 --> 01:50:17.760
Like to in his mind, he's oh, you think it's for that reason?
01:50:18.000 --> 01:50:19.680
I I absolutely think that.
01:50:19.760 --> 01:50:23.840
I think he's like he can absolutely discard he can in his mind.
01:50:24.159 --> 01:50:26.159
I don't think he ever cared about Julia, man.
01:50:26.239 --> 01:50:34.720
I think she was a means to an end, and he'd obviously happily fuck her, but I think he is in pursuit of something new.
01:50:34.800 --> 01:50:38.239
He was never gonna settle in with Julia and keep just to her.
01:50:38.399 --> 01:50:39.680
That was the thing.
01:50:39.920 --> 01:50:42.479
I am built so different than that guy.
01:50:42.720 --> 01:50:46.319
I think most I think 99% of the population is.
01:50:46.880 --> 01:51:04.720
Like, I think if we really if you really if you really think about the the limits of like what would be possible uh in in Frank's character, for him to have gone to the puzzle box means I'm like, I think he has sought out all manners of sexual experience.
01:51:05.039 --> 01:51:13.359
So I think he's perpetually like even now he's maybe he he has a new lease on life, he's still after it.
01:51:13.439 --> 01:51:16.880
Like he doesn't he's not appreciative of the fact that he's alive again.
01:51:16.960 --> 01:51:27.520
He's just like appreciate the fact, oh, I can go back to he's he's a he he is like he is a slave to hedonistic tendencies.
01:51:27.760 --> 01:51:40.640
Maybe he's a sex addict, maybe it's a bunch of things, but so I think I I think Julia was just a means to an end, and that as long as he has some woman on the go, um, I think he's absolutely fine with that.
01:51:40.720 --> 01:52:01.520
I think Kirsten I don't bel like I don't agree with you with the like upgrading to like Kirsty, but I do agree with you that like he is such a selfish prick that his goal was never to like set up a house and home with Julia, yeah.
01:52:01.680 --> 01:52:05.359
And also, I don't even know if that was her goal.
01:52:05.680 --> 01:52:12.720
No, I think her goal is also pleasure, but it does make sense that he would just discard her like nothing, right?
01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:18.399
He doesn't care, he doesn't have a love or a sincere bone in his body.
01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:25.680
I mean, this is the guy that banged his brother's wife on her wedding dress and has no consciousness about it, right?
01:52:26.319 --> 01:52:27.840
Yeah, but this is a whole other level.
01:52:27.920 --> 01:52:37.279
Okay, so the Frank, the Frank and Larry figure begins to hunt for Kirsty within the home, approaching the upstairs chamber where it all began.
01:52:37.520 --> 01:52:43.199
As Kirsty attempts an escape, Frank approaches her from behind, cornering her within the room.
01:52:43.520 --> 01:52:49.279
Light begins to pour in from the darkness, and the centibytes appear.
01:52:49.520 --> 01:52:54.560
I wanted to tell you, lights begin to pour in through the walls, right?
01:52:54.640 --> 01:52:59.039
Like the slats on the walls seem to be like four inches apart.
01:52:59.119 --> 01:52:59.680
And so light.
01:53:02.000 --> 01:53:02.399
Yeah, they changed.
01:53:02.560 --> 01:53:03.039
No, you're right.
01:53:03.439 --> 01:53:09.439
It it alters, I think it alters from like the earthly realm to the centibyte realm.
01:53:09.600 --> 01:53:17.199
Yeah, this is the moment where I realized that this was this this was the room that Frank was initially in at the beginning of the film.
01:53:17.359 --> 01:53:20.960
This is where I tied it together that oh, he is inside the house.
01:53:21.119 --> 01:53:23.119
Oh, because at the beginning of the movie, you have no idea.
01:53:23.279 --> 01:53:25.119
Like I had no clue that that's where he was.
01:53:25.199 --> 01:53:27.680
But now it all clicked into place for Frank.
01:53:27.840 --> 01:53:29.359
Me, me, Frank.
01:53:29.840 --> 01:53:38.399
Um, it appears Kirsty has set him up as chains reach from the darkness and plunge into Frank's skin.
01:53:38.720 --> 01:53:45.279
He says Jesus wept before being torn apart limb from limb.
01:53:46.000 --> 01:54:08.880
Yeah, I sorry, the reason I think that line is so insane is because this guy is a fucking narcissistic prick who feels like he is oh, he is immune to consequence equating himself with Jesus?
01:54:09.439 --> 01:54:11.199
Like I just thought of something.
01:54:11.439 --> 01:54:16.720
Yeah, do you know how at the beginning of the film they're putting his face back together?
01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:17.520
Yeah.
01:54:18.399 --> 01:54:28.960
Is there part of you that wonders if that was a scene that happens after he gets torn apart at the end of the film?
01:54:29.840 --> 01:54:36.159
No, I think I think he was torn apart the first time and then reconstitutes, and then now it's being torn apart again.
01:54:36.800 --> 01:54:37.439
I think so.
01:54:37.520 --> 01:54:39.119
But I I also like the what you just said.
01:54:39.199 --> 01:54:41.119
I think the i that idea is cool.
01:54:42.479 --> 01:54:50.560
So, a distraught Kirstie attempts another escape but is met by Deep Throat, who says, Not leaving us so soon, are you?
01:54:51.199 --> 01:55:01.199
Kirstie enters her father's bedroom and sees Julia's corpse on the bed, puzzle box in hand, and begins to play with a configuration.
01:55:01.520 --> 01:55:14.079
I wanted to tell you this mattress that Julia is on, which seems like nondescript in this movie, becomes absolutely vital in part two.
01:55:14.640 --> 01:55:15.279
Really?
01:55:15.520 --> 01:55:20.159
Yes, and it's like it's kind of a throwaway like, why is she on the mattress?
01:55:20.399 --> 01:55:34.720
She also has chains linked throughout her body, but in part two, it becomes her entry back into the world, and it's it's just so gruesome and disgusting.
01:55:36.640 --> 01:55:43.680
It's so it's so gruesome and disgusting that I just feel like you're gonna get such a kick out of that film when you watch it.
01:55:43.760 --> 01:55:55.279
And I love when I've seen something so good and you haven't seen it and you get to see it, it's like uh I have uh Sharon hasn't seen Nightmare on Elm Street.
01:55:55.840 --> 01:55:56.319
What?
01:55:56.479 --> 01:55:57.600
Yeah, I know it's on pump.
01:55:57.760 --> 01:55:58.880
We're gonna watch those soon.
01:55:59.279 --> 01:56:00.159
Oh Jesus.
01:56:00.399 --> 01:56:00.720
Okay.
01:56:01.680 --> 01:56:10.000
So, and this is where Pinhead appears, letting Kirsty know that we have such sights to show you.
01:56:10.399 --> 01:56:15.920
Yeah, and she fumbles with the box, yelling for the cinnabites to go to hell.
01:56:16.239 --> 01:56:25.600
She indeed does luck out with a few trusty configurations that send each centibyte back to their otherworldly dimension.
01:56:26.399 --> 01:56:27.600
You're right here too.
01:56:27.680 --> 01:56:31.600
You're you're you are right in this, I think, especially here.
01:56:32.000 --> 01:56:34.159
She dispatches them very easily.
01:56:34.239 --> 01:56:36.640
Like, there's there's no big fight scene.
01:56:36.720 --> 01:56:37.840
I'm not I'm not that I wanted this.
01:56:37.920 --> 01:56:38.880
I'm not saying that there should have been.
01:56:38.960 --> 01:56:40.720
I'm just I wanted something, yeah.
01:56:40.800 --> 01:56:41.439
But like come on.
01:56:41.760 --> 01:56:42.239
Come on, man.
01:56:42.319 --> 01:56:44.880
I do wish there was like more resistance here.
01:56:45.279 --> 01:56:47.520
Like or power display.
01:56:47.760 --> 01:56:55.439
Like, even when like she zaps each one of the way, and even I think it's um uh who's a butterball.
01:56:55.600 --> 01:57:03.680
That's the one that actually grabs her, and like she swats him across the face a couple times, and then she's able to still configure it, even though he has her held.
01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:11.520
So, like, I did find it like a little too easy to get away from these centibytes, but that's just like my criticism.
01:57:11.840 --> 01:57:13.039
You know what's funny?
01:57:13.359 --> 01:57:16.720
My criticism about her like easily configuring the box from earlier.
01:57:16.880 --> 01:57:24.319
You met with well, it could just be the fact that like she her intention is to you know do A, B, or, C.
01:57:24.720 --> 01:57:30.800
This actually, like, if you take that argument now and you go, perhaps, you know how in a dream you wake yourself up?
01:57:31.039 --> 01:57:41.039
Yeah, this could be as easy as the intention with the box is I want these things gone, you know, bingo, they go away.
01:57:41.359 --> 01:57:45.680
And that just is a satisfying enough reason for me.
01:57:45.920 --> 01:57:46.800
I think so too.
01:57:46.880 --> 01:57:50.640
I think I think her, I think this box, like you'll see it a couple times.
01:57:50.720 --> 01:57:57.279
I think Pinhead just and like even her will just touch the top of it and it'll slide itself out and then back in.
01:57:57.520 --> 01:57:58.479
Just the slip?
01:57:58.960 --> 01:58:07.119
Maybe maybe it is just yeah, it is like your mental what you are desiring is how it will configure itself for you.
01:58:08.319 --> 01:58:11.039
But Andrew, this does not end for Kirstie.
01:58:11.439 --> 01:58:23.039
The creature that chased Kirstie down the hall reappears for one last battle, grasping at her before she manages to also send it packing back to another dimension.
01:58:23.439 --> 01:58:36.159
The one thing I want to note here is that it seems when she opens or closes either the creature dimension or the centibyte dimension, it sort of like makes the other one open.
01:58:36.800 --> 01:58:37.520
Did you notice?
01:58:37.600 --> 01:58:38.079
Did you see that?
01:58:38.159 --> 01:58:38.560
Like everything.
01:58:38.720 --> 01:58:40.079
Because this happened twice now.
01:58:40.319 --> 01:58:42.560
When she got rid of one thing, it was on to the next.
01:58:42.640 --> 01:58:44.399
Like it was like absolutely.
01:58:44.640 --> 01:58:50.239
And also to note here, it's not really important, surprisingly, but her boyfriend has joined her by this point.
01:58:50.399 --> 01:58:52.239
Oh, I've totally left him out of the script.
01:58:52.479 --> 01:58:53.600
Yes, you are correct.
01:58:53.920 --> 01:58:59.119
He is like he is a completely one note, unworthy character, like unlikely.
01:59:00.239 --> 01:59:01.520
He's a nothing burger character.
01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:04.000
Like he is, he absolutely is a nothing burger character.
01:59:04.159 --> 01:59:15.279
Who at like he's just there, he shows up right around the time that Butterball grabs her, and yeah, they fight this thing off briefly together, and it's yeah, he's just lame.
01:59:15.840 --> 01:59:16.720
I have a question.
01:59:16.880 --> 01:59:19.600
Does this creature need to be in this movie at all?
01:59:19.920 --> 01:59:22.560
No, no, I don't think so.
01:59:22.800 --> 01:59:31.840
I don't think you know what I think, I think I like the lore implications that, like, in the hospital with other configurations, she briefly discovered this other realm.
01:59:32.079 --> 01:59:34.319
Do I think they had to throw it in the climax?
01:59:34.479 --> 01:59:34.800
Yeah.
01:59:35.359 --> 01:59:39.760
But at the same time, by this point, they had built the things, they probably wanted to get some more dollar value out of it.
01:59:40.079 --> 01:59:40.960
I was thinking the same thing.
01:59:41.119 --> 01:59:43.840
I was like, you just wanted this to be used again.
01:59:44.000 --> 01:59:45.520
Yeah, I think so.
01:59:45.840 --> 01:59:46.880
It's like, why not?
01:59:47.039 --> 01:59:48.159
Anyway, I digress.
01:59:48.319 --> 01:59:53.279
But okay, this is another like, why is this why is this in the film?
01:59:53.520 --> 02:00:01.279
But as she exits the home on a rainy evening, she decides to burn the puzzle box in a random fire somewhere.
02:00:01.439 --> 02:00:02.239
Question mark.
02:00:02.399 --> 02:00:04.560
Yeah, is this what meant to be the rebel?
02:00:05.039 --> 02:00:14.880
I thought I thought maybe this was like a quick like edit problem where the house had burned down and she's burning it in the rubble of the house, but it looks like it's like in a homeless field or something.
02:00:15.520 --> 02:00:19.279
She went to a weird bomb location where there was a war.
02:00:19.680 --> 02:00:23.039
They obviously like I don't know if it's like runtime or editing.
02:00:23.119 --> 02:00:25.039
They obviously this felt really quick.
02:00:25.199 --> 02:00:28.159
All like it's it's like almost as post-apocalyptic.
02:00:28.319 --> 02:00:42.319
And so as the box begins to burn, the unhoused man from earlier heads into the fire to retrieve it, beginning to burn and morphing into a skeletal bird being before flying away with the box.
02:00:43.119 --> 02:00:48.960
Now, I could have done without this and the eldritch creature at the very end.
02:00:49.119 --> 02:00:56.159
I really didn't understand, and I actually forgot that both of those things were in the film, and I've seen this movie like a hundred times.
02:00:56.399 --> 02:01:10.880
I I don't know if they were trying to like they didn't want the movie to just end on the note of the Cenobites going back to their dimension, and they wanted to add another layer of demonic activity.
02:01:11.039 --> 02:01:13.840
I really didn't make the connection and didn't understand.
02:01:14.720 --> 02:01:24.880
I think Clive Barker has this, like, he's very much into the world building of this, of this, this whole world of Hellraiser, like the hellbound heart.
02:01:25.039 --> 02:01:27.840
I think he has he had at least some of it plotted out.
02:01:28.000 --> 02:01:32.479
And I think that creature, like, or some form of it is in the lore.
02:01:32.560 --> 02:01:40.079
It's like the protector, or like it's the guardian of the box that it oversees its its moving about the planet to other people.
02:01:40.479 --> 02:01:47.359
So whatever that box is, that thing will take various forms to watch, watch the people who have it in their possession.
02:01:48.319 --> 02:01:53.439
And I there's that I read I read that that you would never know that from this movie, really.
02:01:53.520 --> 02:01:56.319
I don't think, other than that it flies away with the box, I guess.
02:01:56.479 --> 02:02:06.079
Maybe you put that together, but I think maybe that's why in his mind, like world building-wise, it's like a it it also opens up a sequel, the box isn't burned, it's gone elsewhere.
02:02:06.319 --> 02:02:07.920
Actually, I actually love that.
02:02:09.119 --> 02:02:14.000
So we end with a scene of the puzzle box on the table in front of two men.
02:02:14.479 --> 02:02:21.680
The man to the right being asked what his pleasure is before the film comes to a close.
02:02:22.479 --> 02:02:26.720
And so the box has indeed found another victim, it appears, Andrew.
02:02:27.039 --> 02:02:29.439
Probably someone as sadistic as Frank.
02:02:29.760 --> 02:02:32.000
At an undescript Arabian location.
02:02:35.520 --> 02:02:43.039
Alright, so that is Hellraiser, y'all! Join us again for our next feature film.