رونوشت کامل Writers Talk - Award Winning Authors - Dick Belsky & Charles Salzberg - host Marsha Casper Cook

--> 00:03:52.800 you know, working for Time or Newsweek and everybody, you know, 78 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:55.879 I mean, it's not like now. Everybody got their news 79 00:03:55.939 --> 00:03:57.800 every week. You got all this stuff. 80 00:03:58.039 --> 00:03:58.650 Right, right. 81 00:03:59.379 --> 00:04:02.090 And the other thing is, I'm not sure exactly what 82 00:04:02.129 --> 00:04:06.310 time period he's talking about, but, you know, New York Magazine, 83 00:04:06.770 --> 00:04:12.310 I mean, just everybody, you know, it just mattered, writers there. 84 00:04:13.259 --> 00:04:15.419 And then you had the newspapers, you had the Post 85 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:19.040 and the News and the Times. And it certainly was 86 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.740 a different time. And like Charles said, we were both 87 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:23.670 lucky enough to be a part of it. It's just 88 00:04:23.889 --> 00:04:26.509 we worked in different areas. Right. 89 00:04:26.569 --> 00:04:28.990 It wasn't easy at all, at all, to get in 90 00:04:29.149 --> 00:04:29.629 any of that. 91 00:04:29.730 --> 00:04:32.449 And so the good thing, you know, what you're saying, Charles, 92 00:04:32.509 --> 00:04:35.230 is I think kids now, they don't realize you took 93 00:04:35.269 --> 00:04:38.420 a job in the mailroom. OK, and a lot of 94 00:04:38.459 --> 00:04:39.779 people would not do that. 95 00:04:41.470 --> 00:04:42.069 Right, right. 96 00:04:42.310 --> 00:04:44.370 They want to start out differently. 97 00:04:45.310 --> 00:04:46.990 Yeah, I get a kick out of the kids who 98 00:04:47.009 --> 00:04:49.310 are in their 20s who are lamenting they can't buy 99 00:04:49.370 --> 00:04:51.689 a house. I was lucky I could pay my rent, 100 00:04:51.790 --> 00:04:53.800 you know, much less. And it wasn't like they paid 101 00:04:53.829 --> 00:04:57.480 a lot. But being in the way New York was 102 00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.540 set up, being in the mailroom was the perfect spot 103 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:04.839 because a shortcut from the elevators into the main room 104 00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:07.949 was through the mailroom. So all these great writers that 105 00:05:07.990 --> 00:05:10.680 Dick was talking about, many of them who came from newspapers, 106 00:05:10.699 --> 00:05:15.779 because that was Clay's thing, you know, Pete Hamill, you know, 107 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.779 the critics like John Simon, you know, all of them 108 00:05:19.819 --> 00:05:22.250 would come through the mailroom and they'd stop and chat 109 00:05:22.259 --> 00:05:26.149 with us. So I actually got an opportunity to meet 110 00:05:26.189 --> 00:05:29.389 a lot of these newspaper guys who then were writing 111 00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:30.089 for magazines. 112 00:05:31.490 --> 00:05:31.649 Yeah. 113 00:05:32.779 --> 00:05:35.240 I mean, that really is, you know, I mean, sometimes 114 00:05:35.259 --> 00:05:37.930 you do have to start in the bottom and to 115 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:41.490 go up, you

know, and sometimes if you're really smart, 116 00:05:41.529 --> 00:05:43.610 you can go up very fast, but you just got 117 00:05:43.649 --> 00:05:44.430 to get in the door. 118 00:05:45.430 --> 00:05:47.170 What was your first job? 119 00:05:48.149 --> 00:05:52.310 Dick, what was your first job in newspapers here? I, I, 120 00:05:52.970 --> 00:05:56.069 I started at the bottom in a sense too, you know, 121 00:05:56.089 --> 00:06:00.910 in newspapers, you start smaller papers and I worked my 122 00:06:00.949 --> 00:06:03.370 very first job in newspapers. I took a job after 123 00:06:03.410 --> 00:06:06.769 college as the editor of a weekly paper in Teaneck 124 00:06:06.850 --> 00:06:09.800 called the Teaneck Sun. And I'm proud to say that 125 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.620 within like probably less than a month I was fired. 126 00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:18.019 So it was not an auspicious way to begin my career. 127 00:06:18.819 --> 00:06:20.720 I probably had it coming, but because I was very, 128 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.259 you know, you're very cocky and smart and you think 129 00:06:23.290 --> 00:06:25.189 you're going to do that. And then I worked at 130 00:06:25.209 --> 00:06:28.230 a couple of New Jersey papers, one in Wayne and 131 00:06:28.329 --> 00:06:31.839 one in Morristown. And then I got a call for 132 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:39.629 employment from an organization called the U.S. Army. And I 133 00:06:39.670 --> 00:06:41.829 was going to say no, but they said, no, you know, 134 00:06:41.850 --> 00:06:44.699 you can't say no. An offer I couldn't refuse called 135 00:06:44.740 --> 00:06:46.899 the draft. 136 00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:50.019 You can say something like, oh, the timing isn't right 137 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:50.740 quite now. 138 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:55.209 Yeah, I'm not a prominent person for this job. 139 00:06:55.230 --> 00:06:57.069 I'm too busy. I'm too busy now. 140 00:06:57.589 --> 00:07:01.129 Yeah, yeah. Here's son, take a rifle and go to Vietnam. 141 00:07:01.490 --> 00:07:05.139 But seriously, so times were different then, though, in the 142 00:07:05.180 --> 00:07:07.939 sense that it may have been a lot easier to 143 00:07:07.959 --> 00:07:09.639 get a job. So when I got out of the Army, 144 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:12.699 I decided I either wanted to, I eventually wanted to 145 00:07:13.060 --> 00:07:15.000 go back to Ohio, where I was from, which I 146 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:17.350 never did. But I decided I wanted to work in 147 00:07:17.370 --> 00:07:19.750 a big city. So I went to L.A., Washington, and 148 00:07:19.790 --> 00:07:23.120 New York and literally just walked in places and asked 149 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:29.500 for jobs. And I got job offers everywhere. And one 150 00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:31.319 of them turned out to be in the New York Post. 151 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:35.430 And my first job offer there was they said to me, well, 152 00:07:35.449 --> 00:07:37.730 we need somebody to work the police shack. Do you 153 00:07:37.769 --> 00:07:40.149 know how to work the– do you have experience in 154 00:07:40.170 --> 00:07:43.889 the police shack? I said, oh, yeah. Great position. I'd 155 00:07:43.949 --> 00:07:45.379 never been to a post check in my life. I 156 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:51.019 had no idea what you did. Always say yes. That's 157 00:07:51.060 --> 00:07:54.339 my version of what Charles was saying. 158 00:07:54.899 --> 00:07:57.620 Dick, you have to explain what the post was like 159 00:07:57.990 --> 00:08:01.629 then because it was totally different from what it was now. 160 00:08:01.709 --> 00:08:04.430 I grew up reading it. It was left wing. It 161 00:08:04.490 --> 00:08:08.009 was totally different. 162 00:08:08.430 --> 00:08:10.560 A lot of people don't really realize if you weren't... 163 00:08:10.649 --> 00:08:12.810 I was there with during the Dolly Schiff era, the 164 00:08:12.850 --> 00:08:15.089 early seventies, when you're right, it was the, it was 165 00:08:15.189 --> 00:08:18.149 called like the, the, the upper West side Jewish paper. 166 00:08:18.189 --> 00:08:19.939 That was what it catered to, you know, like a 167 00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:24.480 liberal crowd, very Jewish owned by Dolly Schiff, a woman 168 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:26.899 owner who'd owned it for years. Um, and then of 169 00:08:26.939 --> 00:08:29.180 course it got taken over by Rupert Murdoch and became 170 00:08:29.620 --> 00:08:32.509 very conservative. But what a lot of people don't realize 171 00:08:32.610 --> 00:08:34.750 is they think, Oh, with Dolly Schiff, it was a 172 00:08:34.789 --> 00:08:38.230 very sane, responsible paper, but it was crazy as hell 173 00:08:38.250 --> 00:08:42.700 there too, you know? And, um, The reason that I 174 00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:45.559 actually wound up at the Post was I was in Vietnam. 175 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:47.659 And this is one of the cleverest things. I don't 176 00:08:47.679 --> 00:08:49.700 know if you ever did anything quite as clever as this, Charles. 177 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:53.340 You've done a lot of clever things. I've done a 178 00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:56.250 lot of stupid things, too. Well, yeah. I try to 179 00:08:56.269 --> 00:08:58.950 talk about this. But I was in Vietnam. And I'm 180 00:08:59.029 --> 00:09:01.669 sitting in my barracks or bunker or whatever we call them. 181 00:09:01.870 --> 00:09:04.669 The hooch, I think they call them. But I'm getting stuff. 182 00:09:04.750 --> 00:09:07.629 I'm getting magazines and papers. And I get this magazine article. 183 00:09:07.669 --> 00:09:09.080 I don't know where. It could have been in New York. 184 00:09:09.100 --> 00:09:11.179 It could have been something. And it was all about 185 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:14.139 the Dolly shift post and what a crazy place it was. 186 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.580 And it was basically like just a lot of negative 187 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.059 stuff about how the city room was a mess. It 188 00:09:20.100

--> 00:09:22.659 was filthy. The people were crazy. It was a horrible 189 00:09:22.710 --> 00:09:24.669 place to work. You know, it was like the third 190 00:09:24.769 --> 00:09:27.340 paper and out of three in New York and, and 191 00:09:27.460 --> 00:09:30.639 everything bad about it. And I decided, well, you know, 192 00:09:30.940 --> 00:09:33.580 this place might be willing to hire me. So I 193 00:09:33.620 --> 00:09:36.460 wrote a, I wrote a letter from Vietnam to the 194 00:09:36.580 --> 00:09:39.220 editor of the paper, a man named Paul San. And 195 00:09:39.299 --> 00:09:41.639 I just literally laid it all out. And I said, 196 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:44.019 I said, I'm in Vietnam. I don't know if I'm 197 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:45.779 going to come back. You know, my life's on the 198 00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:47.919 line here, but the one thing that could help me 199 00:09:48.220 --> 00:09:51.019 would be if I knew when I came back that 200 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:52.779 I had a job interview. 201 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:53.940 That was shameless. 202 00:09:57.480 --> 00:10:02.759 And he wrote me back. and he said, yeah, of course. 203 00:10:02.940 --> 00:10:05.070 And so I went, and I got a job. So 204 00:10:05.090 --> 00:10:07.629 I was always very proud of that. I felt I 205 00:10:07.669 --> 00:10:09.710 could use my Vietnam experience in that way. 206 00:10:10.250 --> 00:10:13.590 Well, I would say so, though, because that was an experience. 207 00:10:13.610 --> 00:10:17.929 Yes. Yeah, yeah, we could do many shows talking about 208 00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:20.909 my Vietnam experience. Although I will say this, and this 209 00:10:21.009 --> 00:10:26.269 is going a little different direction. I had a commanding 210 00:10:26.330 --> 00:10:28.490 officer in Vietnam who was a major at the time, 211 00:10:28.529 --> 00:10:31.059 wound up being a colonel. He and I are still 212 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.240 very good friends, like 60 years later. He lives down 213 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.860 in North Carolina. And amazingly, Charles, you might get a 214 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:41.710 kick out of this, I was, he started reading my 215 00:10:41.750 --> 00:10:45.330 books and I did Zoom with a bookstore in Pittsburgh, 216 00:10:45.350 --> 00:10:48.169 I think it was one day. And you could see, 217 00:10:48.210 --> 00:10:50.370 you know, there were different fans on the Zoom thing. 218 00:10:50.889 --> 00:10:56.450 And he, somebody, his name was Lawrence Fulton and somebody, 219 00:10:56.649 --> 00:10:58.590 and I hadn't seen this guy in 60 years. And 220 00:10:58.809 --> 00:11:01.740 so one of these fans said to me, hey, Dick, 221 00:11:01.769 --> 00:11:04.860 I just read your book. It's Larry. And I'm like, Larry, who? 222 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:08.419 And it was from Andy Watson from Vietnam, like a 223 00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:10.700 half century later. who wound up at one of my 224 00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.840 book parties having read my book. So

that was really 225 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:14.299 kind of cool. 226 00:11:14.419 --> 00:11:17.509 That's exciting, though, because you never know, because when he 227 00:11:17.570 --> 00:11:18.830 knew you, you weren't doing this. 228 00:11:19.909 --> 00:11:22.549 No, I was not writing novels in Vietnam. 229 00:11:22.990 --> 00:11:23.529 Exactly. 230 00:11:24.549 --> 00:11:26.809 What Dick didn't tell you, too, is that he mentioned 231 00:11:26.950 --> 00:11:30.210 the editor Paul Sand. Paul Sand was also the author 232 00:11:30.389 --> 00:11:36.379 of a book about Dutch Schultz. So he must have been... 233 00:11:36.950 --> 00:11:39.629 seeped in the crime area. And the one quote I 234 00:11:39.700 --> 00:11:42.240 love about the New York Post of those days is 235 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:47.620 Jack Newfield, who became a really big political columnist and 236 00:11:47.659 --> 00:11:50.220 all that, as a kid wrote the newspaper. He said, 237 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:54.100 I love your paper, the New York Post. I read 238 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:58.620 it every day. Too bad your copy editors don't. Because 239 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:02.750 it was known for all these errors. It was kind 240 00:12:02.769 --> 00:12:04.970 of a shoddy thing. But I read it every day. 241 00:12:06.259 --> 00:12:10.350 Yeah, and what the Post always had in both areas, 242 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:12.929 they had it with Murdoch and also with Dollar Shippers, 243 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:16.769 they always had the must-read columnist that you wanted. 244 00:12:16.809 --> 00:12:18.389 Murray Kempton with Venus. 245 00:12:18.970 --> 00:12:23.100 Well, Murray worked in a couple places, but Pete Hamill 246 00:12:23.129 --> 00:12:28.480 was the big one. So the Daily News, I mean, 247 00:12:28.500 --> 00:12:31.379 they would move around, and I know when I lived, 248 00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:34.259 before I worked at the paper, you'd get the papers, 249 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.399 and More than anything, you'd turn to Jimmy Breslin in 250 00:12:37.419 --> 00:12:40.279 the news. You'd turn to Pete Hamill in the Post. 251 00:12:40.730 --> 00:12:42.669 And then you had all the other ones, too, like 252 00:12:42.809 --> 00:12:53.610 Earl Wilson's celebrity and Susie and everybody in my neighborhood. 253 00:12:53.690 --> 00:12:56.950 I was going to say, I hope you're building. Yeah, 254 00:12:57.009 --> 00:12:58.850 I think they're coming for me. There was just all 255 00:12:58.889 --> 00:13:03.100 this must-read stuff that you did. And then, of course, 256 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:04.799 you got to know that. I mean, I didn't know. 257 00:13:05.299 --> 00:13:09.600 I never knew. I never really knew Breslin because, oh, 258 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.070 he did give me an author book once. But but 259 00:13:12.090 --> 00:13:14.470 I got to know Pete, you know, got to work 260 00:13:14.509 --> 00:13:16.710 with him and people like that. And that was one 261 00:13:16.730 --> 00:13:18.269 of the great things about in New York that I 262 00:13:18.309 --> 00:13:21.110 don't know if it's true in any place else. I mean, 263 00:13:21.129 --> 00:13:24.090 you're working with just these legendary people. I mean, I 264 00:13:24.110 --> 00:13:26.710 work with Murray. I work with. Yeah, well, I work 265 00:13:26.750 --> 00:13:30.490 with so so many so many people. And you just, 266 00:13:30.669 --> 00:13:33.590 just being around him is, is, and I'm sure Charles, 267 00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:36.149 you've had some of the same, it's just cool working 268 00:13:36.190 --> 00:13:37.909 in the same room with these people and seeing them. 269 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:40.029 Absolutely. 270 00:13:41.669 --> 00:13:42.730 That's how you learn too. 271 00:13:42.789 --> 00:13:45.649 You learn from other people too, you know, and you watch, 272 00:13:45.769 --> 00:13:50.960 I think that's, that's important. We could all learn how to, 273 00:13:51.019 --> 00:13:53.299 you know, it's good to learn from whoever you can 274 00:13:53.340 --> 00:13:56.019 learn from, no matter what jobs you've had. And that's 275 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:58.350 why all the, things that we've done in the past, 276 00:13:58.429 --> 00:14:00.750 like you guys have done a lot of things that 277 00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:01.789 helps in your writing. 278 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:03.139 Absolutely. 279 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:07.080 Oh, absolutely. You know, I think we've talked about this, 280 00:14:07.139 --> 00:14:10.240 but it's like, I think I mentioned, I may have 281 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:14.409 mentioned this when I did your book event. I, I 282 00:14:14.450 --> 00:14:17.330 wound up, I wind up interviewing a lot of authors for, 283 00:14:17.350 --> 00:14:20.899 you know, a couple of things, the big thrills, some things. 284 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:24.659 And I've interviewed a lot of them who were newspaper people, 285 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:31.379 you know, Michael Conley, Mike Lupica, Riley Sager, Gillian Flynn. 286 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:34.320 I mean, she worked in Entertainment Weekly. And pretty much 287 00:14:34.580 --> 00:14:37.100 everybody that you ask says that they probably couldn't write 288 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.850 novels if they hadn't done journalism first, because you learn 289 00:14:40.889 --> 00:14:42.919 I mean, the number one thing you do is you 290 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.779 learn to just sit down and write and not worry 291 00:14:45.820 --> 00:14:48.100 about it, not think about it, not wait to see, 292 00:14:48.139 --> 00:14:50.980 you know. But, you know, and I just recently talked 293 00:14:51.019 --> 00:14:55.120 to Mike Lupica, who writes the, now writes with James Patterson, 294 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:57.240 but of course is a legendary New York City columnist. 295 00:14:57.779 --> 00:15:00.879 And he basically said, he said, yeah, I'm like, and 296 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:03.600 I know Charles doesn't, always talks about how he doesn't 297 00:15:03.639

--> 00:15:05.730 do this but i'm i'm more this way which is 298 00:15:05.750 --> 00:15:07.370 lupus i get out of bed in the morning i 299 00:15:07.389 --> 00:15:09.029 start writing because that's what i know it's what i've 300 00:15:09.049 --> 00:15:10.509 done all my life you know he does it with 301 00:15:10.549 --> 00:15:13.190 fiction the same way he did it with non-fiction. 302 00:15:14.610 --> 00:15:18.330 Yeah yeah well i just i really i admire people 303 00:15:18.370 --> 00:15:22.340 like um like i'm just the opposite i'm really lazy 304 00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:26.029 and so um Writing for me is out of guilt. 305 00:15:26.169 --> 00:15:29.850 That guilt will get me to the computer. And people 306 00:15:29.929 --> 00:15:31.970 say to me, my friends say to me, what do 307 00:15:31.990 --> 00:15:35.120 you mean you're lazy? You've done like 40, 50 books, 308 00:15:35.659 --> 00:15:38.940 including the nonfiction and the fiction. And I'll say, you know, 309 00:15:39.100 --> 00:15:41.799 I'm a really fast typist. I can type 90 words 310 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.320 a minute. And I can focus when I sit down. 311 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:49.480 But people like Dick treat it like a job, which 312 00:15:49.539 --> 00:15:50.320 is a good thing. 313 00:15:52.029 --> 00:15:53.830 I have a lot of authors on that do that. 314 00:15:53.889 --> 00:15:56.929 You know, they, you know, I, I'm not that person, 315 00:15:57.029 --> 00:15:59.889 but they, they're very, you know, I, I could sit 316 00:15:59.909 --> 00:16:02.370 down and write for a long time, but I think 317 00:16:02.470 --> 00:16:05.649 that a lot of people do like Dick does. I mean, 318 00:16:05.669 --> 00:16:07.730 I have several women that have been on the show 319 00:16:08.070 --> 00:16:11.190 telling they have like 150 books because that's all they 320 00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:13.690 do is write. I mean, they, they just sit down 321 00:16:13.830 --> 00:16:16.250 and write eight hours straight. 322 00:16:16.309 --> 00:16:18.960 Yeah. I don't, I don't do that. I, I, I 323 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.389 find in, uh, I find that's kind of got a 324 00:16:21.429 --> 00:16:24.259 limit in terms of, you know, writing. And I don't, 325 00:16:24.379 --> 00:16:25.960 I'm not one of the people that does word counts 326 00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:30.840 or anything like that. Do you work weekends? 327 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:34.519 Do you work weekends or do you take off? I mean, 328 00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:36.860 I don't, I mean, yeah. 329 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:39.120 And, and when I worked full time, weekends were a 330 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:41.559 good time to work because I had more time, you know, uh, 331 00:16:41.980 --> 00:16:45.879 I wrote a lot of my books, uh, um, and I, you, 332 00:16:46.039 --> 00:16:48.179 you probably did some of this too, Charles, but I 333 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:50.600 wrote a lot of my books when I was working 334 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.350 full time and I would be, I mean, I would 335 00:16:53.629 --> 00:16:55.990 be working 10, 11 hours a day in a newsroom, 336 00:16:56.350 --> 00:16:59.789 but I would still write the books. And, and for me, 337 00:17:00.049 --> 00:17:02.509 people would say, well, you're writing all day. How can 338 00:17:02.529 --> 00:17:03.929 you do that? And I said, no, it's a completely 339 00:17:03.970 --> 00:17:08.599 different thing. It's different. Oh, absolutely. I'm chasing stories and fiction. 340 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:11.539 I'm making it up. And, uh, and I enjoyed it. 341 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:13.279 It was, it was a nice, uh, it was a 342 00:17:13.339 --> 00:17:16.420 nice change of pace, but no, I don't. And now, 343 00:17:16.509 --> 00:17:19.230 I mean, because I don't work full time, I'm weekends 344 00:17:19.250 --> 00:17:21.049 just like any other, any other. Yeah. 345 00:17:22.849 --> 00:17:25.009 But you sometimes go away for the summer, you know, 346 00:17:25.369 --> 00:17:27.569 don't you do that? You know, you go away and 347 00:17:27.589 --> 00:17:28.609 then you write when. 348 00:17:28.509 --> 00:17:30.900 You go away. I, yeah, that, that was always a 349 00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:33.220 big thing when, especially when I was working, I would 350 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.599 go away for like a couple of weeks to get 351 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:38.880 caught or somewhere. And I would literally try and turn 352 00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:41.789 out a chapter a day, uh, I'm just one of 353 00:17:41.829 --> 00:17:44.539 those people, and there's a lot of people, writers too, 354 00:17:45.539 --> 00:17:47.539 who are very good writers, but they don't particularly enjoy 355 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:49.880 the writing part. They enjoy the rest of it. They 356 00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:53.319 enjoy the results. I like writing. 357 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:56.559 I love writing. 358 00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:59.049 I like writing because I like when I get that 359 00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.880 aha moment where you find something and you go, oh, 360 00:18:01.930 --> 00:18:02.849 I didn't even know that. 361 00:18:03.130 --> 00:18:04.970 And I go, this is good. 362 00:18:05.109 --> 00:18:08.710 And when that happens, that's like the greatest feeling that 363 00:18:08.789 --> 00:18:11.779 you can have is that something that you didn't know 364 00:18:12.140 --> 00:18:16.220 just happened and then you're happy. That makes me happy 365 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.079 when something I didn't know about my characters just comes out. 366 00:18:19.579 --> 00:18:20.240 Oh yeah. 367 00:18:20.619 --> 00:18:22.660 This is a good day. It's a good day. 368 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.240 But you know, you know, you know, talking about that. 369 00:18:25.309 --> 00:18:28.289 And I, I, I don't know when you, well, I 370 00:18:28.289 --> 00:18:30.190 think you, you, you've talked about this too, how you 371 00:18:30.210 --> 00:18:34.369 started running crime. When I was in college and when 372 00:18:34.430 -->

00:18:37.160 I was, you know, starting out at the Post and everything. 373 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.960 I never aspired to be a mystery or thriller writer. 374 00:18:41.980 --> 00:18:44.680 I don't think I even read many mysteries or thrillers. 375 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:51.089 That wasn't my thing. I wanted to write articles. I 376 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:55.690 wanted to be a nonfiction freelance person, do stuff. And 377 00:18:55.750 --> 00:18:57.930 when and I read some short stories. I remember I 378 00:18:57.950 --> 00:19:00.049 got into like Ring Lardner and people like that, but 379 00:19:00.210 --> 00:19:02.369 I didn't, I didn't really relate to it. And I 380 00:19:02.410 --> 00:19:04.609 don't know how that happened. You know, uh, well, I 381 00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:06.430 know how it happened actually, because I picked up a 382 00:19:06.470 --> 00:19:08.839 copy of Raymond Chandler's The Big Sleep and I read 383 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.339 that and I said, wow, maybe I could write something 384 00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:15.380 like that. And of course, no one can ever write 385 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.380 like Raymond Chandler, but, but I, I tried a very 386 00:19:18.420 --> 00:19:21.539 bad version of a, of a newspaper reporter. And, uh, 387 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:24.099 that got me into it. And so I've been doing 388 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:25.859 it ever since, but you know, again, it's not like, 389 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:28.140 it's not like I started out saying, I want to 390 00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:30.819 write these kinds of books, but, but, but I've been 391 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:31.880 doing it now for quite a while. 392 00:19:32.599 --> 00:19:35.640 But you write, you know, you, you have characters that 393 00:19:35.829 --> 00:19:40.130 are long standing characters. So, and I think that, I 394 00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:44.089 think Charles does too, because don't you have the swans? 395 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:50.119 I do have the swans. Yeah. And people will ask me, 396 00:19:50.140 --> 00:19:53.200 like my most recent book, I've had six or seven 397 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.500 people ask me, oh, there's going to be a sequel, right? Well, 398 00:19:56.619 --> 00:19:59.380 not one of my books, including the swan book, did 399 00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:01.680 I ever have it in mind to write more than one. 400 00:20:01.720 --> 00:20:01.920 Right. 401 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:02.640 Yeah. 402 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:04.140 It just happened. 403 00:20:04.819 --> 00:20:11.799 Right. I always tell this story that when I sold 404 00:20:11.859 --> 00:20:15.259 my first Claire Carlson book, I mean, that was supposed 405 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.180 to be a standalone because there's a real story arc 406 00:20:18.259 --> 00:20:20.420 in that involving her as a person and it all 407 00:20:20.460 --> 00:20:22.680 comes to an conclusion at the end. And I never 408 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.359 in a million years thought of it as a, it 409 00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:30.380 was just a book, a thriller. And my agent at 410 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.750 the time sold it to Ocean View Publishing and And 411 00:20:33.829 --> 00:20:39.130 the woman who ran Ocean View, Pat Goosen, called me 412 00:20:39.190 --> 00:20:42.890 up afterwards and said, we love the book, but we're 413 00:20:42.910 --> 00:20:44.529 going to change the title. And the title at the 414 00:20:44.569 --> 00:20:46.369 time was, I think, Forget Me Not. And she said, 415 00:20:46.390 --> 00:20:49.950 we're going to change it to Yesterday's News because that 416 00:20:50.009 --> 00:20:53.990 way it'll go into the media idea for the other 417 00:20:54.029 --> 00:20:58.299 books in the series. And, of course, I said, what series? 418 00:20:59.420 --> 00:21:01.900 And she said, well, you're planning to write more books 419 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:05.259 with this character for it, aren't you? And I'm proud 420 00:21:05.299 --> 00:21:08.819 to say, without hesitation, I went, yep, oh, of course, absolutely, whatever. 421 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:11.460 And I called my agent and I said, do you 422 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:13.779 know they want to do a series with this? She said, no. 423 00:21:13.940 --> 00:21:16.039 I said, well, they do. And that's how the series 424 00:21:16.059 --> 00:21:18.859 was born. But I think... I think there's a lot 425 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.150 of things like, like Charles said, like you don't necessarily, 426 00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:23.769 I'll have people say to me, Oh, I want to 427 00:21:23.849 --> 00:21:26.730 write a series. Well, you don't, you don't write a series. 428 00:21:26.769 --> 00:21:27.869 You write a book, you know? 429 00:21:27.910 --> 00:21:28.309 Right. 430 00:21:28.569 --> 00:21:31.910 And, and then maybe, maybe that book, uh, maybe that 431 00:21:31.950 --> 00:21:36.200 book turns into a series. Uh, uh, you know, unless, unless, uh, 432 00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:39.049 unless you kill the character off at the. 433 00:21:40.029 --> 00:21:40.869 Well, when they. 434 00:21:40.730 --> 00:21:42.819 Come back and talk to you, then you go like, oh, 435 00:21:42.859 --> 00:21:44.819 I'm not done with them, you know, and that's some 436 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:45.380 of the things. 437 00:21:45.700 --> 00:21:48.359 Listen, I think it was, I want to say Jeffrey Deaver, 438 00:21:48.380 --> 00:21:51.200 but somebody like that told the story about some character, 439 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.099 series character he had that kept recurring. Maybe it was 440 00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.119 somebody else, somebody that had a series, famous author, and 441 00:21:57.140 --> 00:21:59.160 they planned to kill the character off at the end 442 00:21:59.180 --> 00:22:02.150 of the first book, and they basically liked the character 443 00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:06.150 so much they kept them and turned it into a series. Yeah. Yeah. 444 00:22:07.609 --> 00:22:10.210 I think that's one of the things that, you

know, 445 00:22:10.309 --> 00:22:12.430 you just don't know. And that's what makes it very 446 00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:15.529 exciting to write because you actually don't know everything you're 447 00:22:15.549 --> 00:22:17.490 going to do next, you know. 448 00:22:17.730 --> 00:22:19.490 And so it's fun. 449 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:22.640 I mean, once the fun goes out of it, I 450 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.039 don't know that you can be a good writer because 451 00:22:25.099 --> 00:22:28.740 if you're not enjoying it, I don't think that's something 452 00:22:28.809 --> 00:22:31.069 you should do because it comes out in your work 453 00:22:31.150 --> 00:22:33.029 that you just kind of rushed it through or you 454 00:22:33.069 --> 00:22:38.109 didn't put your characters in situations. I'm big on characters 455 00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:40.730 because I like my characters. I'm always thinking about them 456 00:22:40.829 --> 00:22:43.329 even if they're gone. Even if they're gone. 457 00:22:44.410 --> 00:22:48.769 I have made this point because I really feel this way. 458 00:22:49.210 --> 00:22:51.410 To me, the character is more important than the story. 459 00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:57.480 If I like a character, I will read the book 460 00:22:57.539 --> 00:23:00.329 even if the story is not great. If I'm bored 461 00:23:00.369 --> 00:23:02.250 by the character, even if it's a pretty good story, 462 00:23:02.269 --> 00:23:04.130 I'm probably not. And, you know, the funny thing is 463 00:23:04.170 --> 00:23:06.690 some of the greats, I mean, I'm one of the 464 00:23:06.730 --> 00:23:09.329 greatest Robert P. Parker fans ever. 465 00:23:09.369 --> 00:23:10.609 I've read one. 466 00:23:10.529 --> 00:23:13.170 Of the Spencer books. I mean, the truth is those 467 00:23:13.210 --> 00:23:16.019 stories aren't great. It's basically you love Spencer, you know, 468 00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:17.420 and you follow him through the thing. 469 00:23:17.460 --> 00:23:18.619 He's a great character. 470 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:22.059 And the truth of the matter is if you go 471 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:25.519 back and read them now, the Philip Marlowe, Raymond Chandler 472 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:27.720 books sort of fall in that same category. I mean, 473 00:23:27.740 --> 00:23:29.819 a lot of those stories are very convoluted. They don't 474 00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.740 make a lot of sense. You're not really reading it 475 00:23:32.809 --> 00:23:35.410 for the story. You're reading it for the, the writing 476 00:23:35.470 --> 00:23:38.930 and the character. And so to me, that's, that, that's, 477 00:23:39.089 --> 00:23:42.109 that's what I'm, what I'm, what I'm working for, which is, 478 00:23:42.549 --> 00:23:45.049 you know, just, and I just assume a lot of 479 00:23:45.089 --> 00:23:47.269 readers feel the same way. They, you know, they like 480 00:23:47.289 --> 00:23:50.369 the character, like people say that they like, or they 481 00:23:50.390 --> 00:23:54.259 like Clark Carlson and they don't, They don't so much 482 00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:56.599 come to me and say, oh, that was an interesting story. 483 00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:59.680 They go, oh, I like, you know, I love Claire. 484 00:23:59.940 --> 00:24:03.319 People can't even tell you, Dick, people don't remember storylines, 485 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:06.089 but they remember characters. So what are they like, more 486 00:24:06.119 --> 00:24:09.589 than a dozen Reacher books? I dare anyone to tell 487 00:24:09.690 --> 00:24:13.569 me what the, you know, the plot of each individual 488 00:24:13.589 --> 00:24:16.630 book is. People read it, the readers go back because 489 00:24:16.670 --> 00:24:20.349 they like Jack Reacher, right? I mean, that's, I totally agree. 490 00:24:21.460 --> 00:24:21.880 Yeah. 491 00:24:22.430 --> 00:24:25.289 But you know, who's an exception to that? I think who, 492 00:24:25.369 --> 00:24:27.650 who I think does a pretty amazing job of being 493 00:24:27.670 --> 00:24:30.369 a great character, which is a couple, but you know, 494 00:24:30.609 --> 00:24:33.509 is Michael Conley with Harry Bosch because the Harry Bosch books, 495 00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:36.869 Bosch is a great, obviously a great character, but those 496 00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:40.269 books are really smart stories too and plots. And, uh, 497 00:24:41.529 --> 00:24:43.869 So I think that's one of the few I've read 498 00:24:44.309 --> 00:24:47.029 where everything sort of comes together. And again, I'm another 499 00:24:47.049 --> 00:24:50.130 one of these people, probably like you, when you find somebody. 500 00:24:50.410 --> 00:24:53.680 I've read every Michael Connolly book and every Robert Parker book. 501 00:24:53.779 --> 00:24:57.519 And so, you know, so I have. 502 00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:01.980 Dick Connolly, because I've read a little, but not anywhere 503 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:05.410 near as much as you. Has he... Over the years, 504 00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:07.890 did he change as a writer? Did he mature as 505 00:25:07.930 --> 00:25:09.910 a writer? Is he the same writer he was when 506 00:25:09.930 --> 00:25:11.240 he worked on the early books? 507 00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:15.319 Well, one of the... I mean, no, of course he changed. 508 00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:17.660 Number one, he has more characters. He's got the Lincoln lawyer, 509 00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:20.660 and then he's got now the Ballard, the woman cop. 510 00:25:20.700 --> 00:25:24.549 And this is an interesting thing. I mean, neither you 511 00:25:24.609 --> 00:25:27.390 and I have ever been in this situation. But I mean, 512 00:25:27.410 --> 00:25:30.109 that series has been around since the early 90s, the 513 00:25:30.130 --> 00:25:36.359 Bosch stuff. And... Bosch ages sort of in real time. 514 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:39.039 And Bosch is now this old guy, and that's why 515 00:25:39.059 --> 00:25:40.819 he doesn't do a lot of Bosch, because Bosch is 516 00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:45.500 like this retired

old guy. And that's not true so 517 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:51.960 much of Spencer, because Spencer is still beating people up 518 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:57.789 50 years later. And I spoke to Michael Conley about this. 519 00:25:59.539 --> 00:26:03.259 and I think I spoke to Lupica who wrote Spencer 520 00:26:03.339 --> 00:26:06.240 and it's interesting, different contrasts on that. And I don't 521 00:26:06.269 --> 00:26:08.289 know if one is right or wrong. I actually liked 522 00:26:08.329 --> 00:26:11.049 the idea of keeping your, your character a bit ageless, 523 00:26:11.069 --> 00:26:14.529 you know, as opposed to, but Conley just really believes that, 524 00:26:15.069 --> 00:26:18.549 that Bosch should age in, in real time. And so 525 00:26:18.650 --> 00:26:21.180 in that sense, the books are a lot different than, 526 00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:25.559 than the, than the early books. And he, he's not, 527 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.809 I mean, The other thing is he experiments with a 528 00:26:28.829 --> 00:26:32.009 lot of different things, different ways. And, of course, he's 529 00:26:32.029 --> 00:26:33.490 got the whole TV movie thing. 530 00:26:33.390 --> 00:26:34.059 Going on, too. 531 00:26:34.220 --> 00:26:37.519 Yeah, so that's what I wanted. That's what I wanted. Like, 532 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.480 I love movies. You do, too, Dick. Charles, do you 533 00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:41.599 watch a lot of TV? 534 00:26:41.779 --> 00:26:42.039 Yes. 535 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:46.049 Yeah, I grew up on TV and movies, absolutely. And 536 00:26:46.089 --> 00:26:49.329 I still go to the theater to watch them in 537 00:26:49.369 --> 00:26:51.369 a darkened theater, yes. Yeah. 538 00:26:51.750 --> 00:26:55.109 See, because I learned from movies and I especially learned 539 00:26:55.250 --> 00:26:58.210 from older movies. I love older movies, you know, and 540 00:26:58.250 --> 00:27:00.299 I talk about that a lot on my shows because 541 00:27:00.670 --> 00:27:05.319 the dialogue in older movies is really good. You just, 542 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.220 because you always know what's going on. And I think people, 543 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:10.339 that's why they have all these stations now where you 544 00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:13.140 could watch. The younger people are watching a lot of 545 00:27:13.380 --> 00:27:17.420 older movies and they like them. And so they're never 546 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:18.299 ending for them. 547 00:27:19.859 --> 00:27:22.220 But a lot of them, just opposite of that, and 548 00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:25.380 I've heard this from them, they won't watch black and 549 00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:28.539 white movies. They just won't. 550 00:27:29.380 --> 00:27:35.380 I think people do, though. 551 00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:37.559 They've told you that, that they don't. 552 00:27:37.539 --> 00:27:40.640 Watch black and white? Oh, yeah. Yeah, the kids. I mean, 553 00:27:41.089 --> 00:27:45.130 you know, anyone either in the baby boomer generation or... 554 00:27:46.539 --> 00:27:49.400 It's all about the movie itself. But yes, I've heard 555 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.240 that from many students, which means they're missing out on 556 00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.700 classic movies like Captain Black, Falcon or, you know, any 557 00:27:57.740 --> 00:28:01.589 of the Orson Welles movies. But they just don't they 558 00:28:01.609 --> 00:28:03.049 don't like watching it in black and white. 559 00:28:04.329 --> 00:28:06.430 But sometimes they did like, you know, they did like 560 00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:09.650 Star is Born with Judy Garland. They made it, you know, colored. 561 00:28:09.930 --> 00:28:12.930 you know, and some of the movies are now in color, 562 00:28:12.970 --> 00:28:14.890 but it is kind of funny to see that, but 563 00:28:14.990 --> 00:28:17.670 you know, it's not the greatest that way, but I 564 00:28:17.710 --> 00:28:20.269 have a lot of writers on here that do, and 565 00:28:20.309 --> 00:28:23.930 they're young and they like old, and they like old series. 566 00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:26.549 You know, I think it's because TV, there's so much 567 00:28:26.650 --> 00:28:32.190 to watch now that people really enjoy TV a lot 568 00:28:32.259 --> 00:28:34.380 more than they did years ago. Cause you don't have 569 00:28:34.420 --> 00:28:36.740 that time where, You know, it used to be like, oh, 570 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:38.839 it's a holiday, so you're not going to have anything 571 00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:42.079 to watch. Well, now there's always something to watch. 572 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:43.759 Too much. Yeah. 573 00:28:44.299 --> 00:28:47.240 Yeah. I write lists. 574 00:28:47.660 --> 00:28:50.259 But, you know, now I'm finally just saying if I 575 00:28:50.299 --> 00:28:53.640 don't really like it, I just don't go finish. You know, 576 00:28:53.740 --> 00:28:55.400 I used to when I when, you know, when it 577 00:28:55.460 --> 00:28:59.759 was COVID, I finished everything. But and even if it 578 00:28:59.799 --> 00:29:02.460 was like four seasons, but now I don't want to 579 00:29:02.509 --> 00:29:05.430 do that. I would like I like a movie. You know, 580 00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:07.140 I just want to watch it and be done. 581 00:29:08.660 --> 00:29:10.799 You know, life is too short to keep reading a 582 00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:13.859 book that you don't like, you know, that isn't doing. 583 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:14.140 It for you. 584 00:29:14.779 --> 00:29:18.750 So did either of you watch Cape Fear? Yes, I did. 585 00:29:18.769 --> 00:29:19.589 All right. 586 00:29:19.630 --> 00:29:21.089 So what do you think? 587 00:29:21.509 --> 00:29:22.650 At first I wasn't going to. 588 00:29:23.390 --> 00:29:23.569 Yeah. 589 00:29:23.769 --> 00:29:25.269 At first I was going to not watch it. 590 00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:28.829 Well, first of all, I don't know why you would 591 00:29:28.849 --> 00:29:32.509 remake it because the movie was so good. So terrific. 592 00:29:32.529

--> 00:29:34.579 But the other thing is, and I have a pet 593 00:29:34.619 --> 00:29:38.069 peeve about that, is it was way too long. It 594 00:29:38.410 --> 00:29:42.339 got really boring. because they had to fill eight episodes 595 00:29:42.759 --> 00:29:44.480 where they could have done it in two or three. 596 00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:50.720 So I wanted to like it, and I like Javier Bardem, 597 00:29:50.779 --> 00:29:53.460 but I just thought it goes on and on. There 598 00:29:53.509 --> 00:29:55.230 was so much extraneous stuff in it. 599 00:29:55.710 --> 00:29:58.970 Because it really wasn't the whole story. It wasn't the story, really. 600 00:29:59.049 --> 00:29:59.289 I mean. 601 00:29:59.900 --> 00:30:01.259 they added so much in it. 602 00:30:01.420 --> 00:30:05.109 The story itself, the old, the first version was a 603 00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:08.549 story contained and it was kind of scary because they 604 00:30:08.589 --> 00:30:09.710 were in one place. 605 00:30:10.750 --> 00:30:14.190 Now they were all over the place, but the acting 606 00:30:14.430 --> 00:30:15.289 was really good. 607 00:30:16.109 --> 00:30:16.430 It was. 608 00:30:16.450 --> 00:30:20.470 And, but I agree with you that it had, but 609 00:30:20.529 --> 00:30:22.910 I kept watching it and some of it, it was 610 00:30:22.950 --> 00:30:27.309 kind of more or less gruesome, you know? Um, Which, 611 00:30:27.569 --> 00:30:29.690 that was not the case. It was more of a 612 00:30:29.809 --> 00:30:33.269 scary thriller type, the first two, even with. 613 00:30:32.890 --> 00:30:34.430 Robert De Niro, the second version. 614 00:30:35.029 --> 00:30:35.289 Right. 615 00:30:36.390 --> 00:30:38.930 But this one, so it's interesting that you thought that, yeah, because, 616 00:30:38.950 --> 00:30:39.990 so did you finish it? 617 00:30:40.650 --> 00:30:41.250 Yeah, I did. 618 00:30:41.269 --> 00:30:42.109 Yeah. 619 00:30:42.450 --> 00:30:42.829 I did. 620 00:30:43.390 --> 00:30:46.490 You know, I used to review books for the New 621 00:30:46.529 --> 00:30:49.390 York Times, and I'm one of those people who, I 622 00:30:49.450 --> 00:30:53.329 read every page. Now, I might have, you know, moved 623 00:30:53.369 --> 00:30:56.109 the page fast, but I always would hope that this 624 00:30:56.170 --> 00:30:59.170 is going to get better. And if I don't keep 625 00:30:59.250 --> 00:31:01.609 reading it and it gets better, I'm going to not, 626 00:31:02.230 --> 00:31:05.970 you know, the review isn't going to be relevant. 99% 627 00:31:05.970 --> 00:31:07.819 of the time it did not get better if it 628 00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:08.910 was bad. 629 00:31:09.210 --> 00:31:12.079 Right. Dick, do you finish everything that you watch? 630 00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:16.259 Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm very much what 631 00:31:16.299 --> 00:31:21.200 Charles said. It's like if I'm not really into it. 632 00:31:21.740 --> 00:31:24.569 I don't watch as much of the streaming and everything 633 00:31:24.589 -->

00:31:28.369 as probably most people. But when I find something, I mean, 634 00:31:28.450 --> 00:31:33.329 my last huge go-to, and if you haven't watched it, 635 00:31:33.329 --> 00:31:35.970 you're not going to understand it, but it's incredibly popular 636 00:31:36.009 --> 00:31:39.150 is Pluribus. Pluribus is the science fiction thing. 637 00:31:39.009 --> 00:31:40.349 Where- Right, I've started it. 638 00:31:40.690 --> 00:31:41.069 Yeah. 639 00:31:41.150 --> 00:31:42.630 Do you like science fiction, Dick? 640 00:31:42.930 --> 00:31:46.750 Are you a fan? I do. I mean, my current 641 00:31:46.769 --> 00:31:49.470 book is science fiction, The Vanishing. So, you know, yeah. 642 00:31:49.829 --> 00:31:52.670 And I'm a big, I love my plug, but I'm 643 00:31:52.710 --> 00:31:57.710 a big, I'm a big, I mean, see, that's something 644 00:31:57.750 --> 00:31:59.839 that over the years I always followed. I always watched 645 00:31:59.859 --> 00:32:02.259 The Twilight Zone and Outer Limits. And then I became 646 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:04.420 a big fan of X-Files and all that kind of 647 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:08.720 stuff and UFO conspiracies and all that kind of stuff. 648 00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:13.039 And that's what Pluribus is about. So that's huge. And 649 00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:14.960 before that, there was a show called, there is a 650 00:32:15.019 --> 00:32:21.839 show called Severance about basically the brain and the person 651 00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:24.259 can work and they won't know that it changes them 652 00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:27.089 into two people. So that's kind of science fiction-y too. 653 00:32:27.930 --> 00:32:30.490 So when I get shows like that, I get it. 654 00:32:31.099 --> 00:32:33.140 Well, it's kind of a good idea that show I 655 00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:35.549 did because it's kind of a good idea because it's 656 00:32:35.589 --> 00:32:38.309 almost like whatever happens at work, just leave it there. 657 00:32:38.450 --> 00:32:40.509 And whatever happens at home, just leave it there. 658 00:32:40.829 --> 00:32:44.170 But it's not a good idea though. Right. Yeah. 659 00:32:44.190 --> 00:32:47.299 But I mean, but for people, you know, it's hard 660 00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:50.559 because some people, when they come to work and they're 661 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:53.519 in a bad mood, this is not good. You know, they, 662 00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:57.319 you know, uh, my career at first was a lab 663 00:32:57.359 --> 00:32:59.440 tech and I worked in hospitals. So you have to 664 00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:01.970 be up, you know, and you can't be like, you know, 665 00:33:01.990 --> 00:33:03.970 cause people are sick. So you want to be like, 666 00:33:04.170 --> 00:33:08.069 you know, um, help them feel better and be, you know, 667 00:33:08.289 --> 00:33:10.670 give them some joy. And, you know, so it's, that's 668 00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:13.150 the kind of career I had. So, but when I 669 00:33:13.190 --> 00:33:16.250 started writing, I did, I did murder mysteries because I 670 00:33:16.269 --> 00:33:20.990 did screenplays. I have screenplays in every genre except sci-fi. So, 671 00:33:21.470 --> 00:33:23.400 That's a hard one for me to write. I don't 672 00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:24.380 think I can write that. 673 00:33:24.619 --> 00:33:26.720 So it's good that you could. Charles, what about you? 674 00:33:26.779 --> 00:33:27.940 Could you write sci-fi? 675 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:28.019 No. 676 00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:33.099 Although my new book, but it wasn't, I didn't get 677 00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:35.460 it until people pointed it out to me. The new 678 00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:39.660 book has a paranormal plot point in it, but I 679 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.859 still don't think of it as science fiction. 680 00:33:42.339 --> 00:33:45.599 Yeah, because paranormal could be anything that's just different. 681 00:33:45.619 --> 00:33:46.039 Right, right. 682 00:33:46.279 --> 00:33:46.579 Yeah. 683 00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:50.950 You know, I've had some authors on, you know, and I... 684 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.420 They're not as much as it used to be when 685 00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:58.819 they're having, you know, affairs with, you know, snakes or 686 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:00.440 animal type things. 687 00:34:00.460 --> 00:34:03.779 I cannot write that. You know, that's not happening. 688 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.319 I don't know that, you know, like, again, science fiction 689 00:34:07.740 --> 00:34:10.639 is something much more pure. I mean, it involves. 690 00:34:10.739 --> 00:34:12.840 Yes, yes. But it's over the years. 691 00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:17.739 What I like and what my book is and what 692 00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:20.820 inspired me. is the people like, I mean, Stephen King 693 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:22.179 is a perfect example. 694 00:34:22.219 --> 00:34:26.059 But that's a thriller type, right? 695 00:34:26.260 --> 00:34:29.900 There's science fiction stuff in there and there's supernatural stuff. 696 00:34:30.119 --> 00:34:33.500 And there's an author, very big bestselling author now who 697 00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:36.739 does the same thing, Riley Sager. And I love his 698 00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:41.369 stuff too. And, uh, So it's it's like it's it's 699 00:34:41.409 --> 00:34:45.329 like so Charles's book, which which I've read, obviously, as 700 00:34:45.369 --> 00:34:48.639 he said, it's got a paranormal element. But the paranormal 701 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:50.880 element is not the driving force of the book. 702 00:34:50.900 --> 00:34:51.679 Right. 703 00:34:53.219 --> 00:34:56.360 With a lot of these other books, the paranormal force 704 00:34:56.420 --> 00:34:58.699 is what the book is all about. And I mean, 705 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.340 it's just different ways of writing it. Right. Right. 706 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:04.289 In my series about paranormalism. you know, I have a 707 00:35:04.309 --> 00:35:07.849 dog that talks in the romantic comedy. So, and

people 708 00:35:07.929 --> 00:35:11.289 love the dog, but it's a magical, it's not, you know, 709 00:35:11.309 --> 00:35:14.150 that's what I didn't know when I wrote it, what 710 00:35:14.170 --> 00:35:16.570 people would think. And they think it's like a magical 711 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:19.380 type of thing. And probably it is because the dog 712 00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:23.099 comes to help people, you know? So I think that 713 00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:26.360 there's all kinds of writing now. So that's the problem, 714 00:35:26.599 --> 00:35:29.159 which I think a lot of authors face is what 715 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:33.059 the genre they put on Amazon. It's very difficult if 716 00:35:33.099 --> 00:35:37.670 they If Amazon puts you in the wrong genre, then 717 00:35:37.809 --> 00:35:38.769 it's tough for you. 718 00:35:39.349 --> 00:35:40.010 Boy, that's interesting. 719 00:35:40.030 --> 00:35:41.789 And they do. And they do that. 720 00:35:42.670 --> 00:35:46.179 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I know. Like my book has 721 00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:52.099 a picture of a haunted house on the cover. And 722 00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:54.840 at one point it was like a gothic haunted house, 723 00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:57.119 but it's not really what the book is about. It's 724 00:35:57.159 --> 00:36:01.840 really about paranormal, strange forests and stuff. A quick, quick 725 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:05.679 aside that my book, the one talking about now, The Vanishers, 726 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:09.909 it's about a bunch of aliens and a house that 727 00:36:10.530 --> 00:36:13.989 are taking people away. And I actually wrote this many, 728 00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:17.289 many years ago when I started writing mysteries. And, you know, 729 00:36:17.309 --> 00:36:18.969 you talk about being stuck in the genre and I 730 00:36:18.989 --> 00:36:20.650 had written a mystery and sold it. And then I 731 00:36:20.949 --> 00:36:22.789 went to this book, took this book to my agent 732 00:36:23.269 --> 00:36:24.349 and she's like, what. 733 00:36:24.469 --> 00:36:24.989 What is this? 734 00:36:25.050 --> 00:36:26.550 Why are you doing this? You know, why are you 735 00:36:26.809 --> 00:36:29.610 doing this? And I put it away. And then years 736 00:36:29.650 --> 00:36:31.409 and years later, I dug it out and I sent 737 00:36:31.469 --> 00:36:33.929 it to a publisher. They're like, oh, this is great. 738 00:36:33.969 --> 00:36:35.949 We like this. So you never quite know. 739 00:36:36.449 --> 00:36:37.070 No, that's right. 740 00:36:37.150 --> 00:36:39.130 I have a screenplay like that. My editor and I 741 00:36:39.190 --> 00:36:41.630 wrote one and they were just taking people. They were 742 00:36:41.670 --> 00:36:44.050 dying in the house. You know, the house was the 743 00:36:44.469 --> 00:36:47.289 the house was the story, you know, but there was 744 00:36:47.329 --> 00:36:49.409 a screenplay and I never made it into a book, 745 00:36:49.510 --> 00:36:53.010 which I tell people

a lot. And, you know, when 746 00:36:53.050 --> 00:36:55.210 I was an agent, all these people had all these 747 00:36:55.289 --> 00:36:58.699 great stories and they couldn't sell the scripts. because if 748 00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.480 you really, in order to make a movie, it costs 749 00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:04.460 a lot of money, even if it's not a good movie. So, 750 00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.619 and nobody wants to take chances. And all, most of 751 00:37:07.699 --> 00:37:11.170 my clients were all new and were really good writers, 752 00:37:11.809 --> 00:37:14.849 but they gave it up, you know? And so I say, 753 00:37:14.929 --> 00:37:18.250 just write, start using your characters and put them in 754 00:37:18.289 --> 00:37:18.610 a book. 755 00:37:18.829 --> 00:37:21.829 Don't put them in the drawer. And I don't know, 756 00:37:21.949 --> 00:37:23.789 I do that. 757 00:37:23.809 --> 00:37:27.130 As somebody who has written a number of scripts and 758 00:37:27.170 --> 00:37:32.000 attempted to I will say that making it, and you 759 00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:37.050 know this, I think, making it in screenplays is much 760 00:37:37.090 --> 00:37:39.730 more difficult than in books. Right. 761 00:37:39.969 --> 00:37:41.650 You have to edit everything out. 762 00:37:42.230 --> 00:37:45.320 I mean, it's almost impossible to break, unless you live 763 00:37:45.400 --> 00:37:49.659 in Hollywood and you hang out in movie sets and 764 00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.500 stuff like that. It's such a difficult time to break. 765 00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:55.880 I had options, but the options they give you are 766 00:37:55.900 --> 00:37:58.559 for no money. And they want an option for like 767 00:37:58.619 --> 00:38:01.460 three years. So that means you can't do anything with 768 00:38:01.500 --> 00:38:04.639 it for three years. You know, that was horrible. So 769 00:38:04.739 --> 00:38:07.099 if they don't sell it in six months to. 770 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:08.309 A year, they're not selling it. 771 00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:10.400 Yeah. 772 00:38:10.539 --> 00:38:12.940 Really, the case is they could sell it right away. 773 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.480 If they don't sell it right away, they lose interest, 774 00:38:15.780 --> 00:38:17.119 you know. 775 00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:20.760 Well, I will say this about screenplay writing. And I think, Charles, 776 00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:22.800 I think you probably would agree with me. Because I 777 00:38:22.860 --> 00:38:25.320 hate writing descriptions. I love writing dialogue. Me too. I 778 00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.400 don't like writing descriptions. And a great thing in a 779 00:38:28.420 --> 00:38:30.079 movie script, you don't really have to write the script. 780 00:38:30.099 --> 00:38:33.300 You just say, it's morning, the sun came out. And 781 00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.699 that's what I like. And in a book, you kind 782 00:38:35.739 --> 00:38:37.980 of got to, you know, you describe the leaves and 783 00:38:38.019 --> 00:38:42.929 all that stuff. So, you know, writing a screenplay, I 784 00:38:42.969 --> 00:38:47.690 found could be fun. But again, you have to, it's, 785 00:38:48.489 --> 00:38:51.409 I mean, I never, so I mean, I had some 786 00:38:51.469 --> 00:38:55.449 success in terms of competitions getting awards stuff but i 787 00:38:55.469 --> 00:38:57.860 never was able to to sell one so i've uh 788 00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:00.380 i've stayed with books yeah. 789 00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.699 I i tried it several times and didn't like it 790 00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:05.780 one of the screenplay i wrote with a friend of 791 00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:10.909 mine was option five times but but i didn't like 792 00:39:10.989 --> 00:39:14.489 writing them because i like i could first of all 793 00:39:14.510 --> 00:39:16.829 i don't have the strong visual sense that you really 794 00:39:16.869 --> 00:39:20.380 need and also i like to know i i like 795 00:39:21.530 --> 00:39:23.630 writing in first person, because you can get into the 796 00:39:23.909 --> 00:39:29.030 character's mind what they're doing. And with screenplays, you have 797 00:39:29.070 --> 00:39:32.510 to rely yes, it's part of the writing and the action, 798 00:39:32.570 --> 00:39:36.960 but you're really relying on the actor to bring a 799 00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:41.679 lot to it. And that matters. Yeah, it does matter. 800 00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:45.639 The director really matters. If you get a bad director, 801 00:39:45.699 --> 00:39:47.260 you're done. You're done. I mean. 802 00:39:47.619 --> 00:39:50.510 Well, also with a screenplay, right? I mean, most of 803 00:39:50.550 --> 00:39:53.170 the time, unless you're somebody important, it's going to get 804 00:39:53.210 --> 00:39:56.110 rewritten 50 times before it ever hits the screen. It's 805 00:39:56.130 --> 00:39:59.090 not like a novel where you do it. But, you know, 806 00:39:59.110 --> 00:40:02.710 I have like a screenplay. My knowledge, one knowledge of 807 00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:04.889 screenplays is I'm going to do a little name dropping here. 808 00:40:05.429 --> 00:40:08.110 So my best friend and one of my best friends 809 00:40:08.150 --> 00:40:11.940 at college was one of the most legendary screenwriters in Hollywood, 810 00:40:11.960 --> 00:40:15.159 Joe Esterhaus, who wrote Basic Instinct, Bigger Edge and all these. 811 00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.960 And and I'm still in touch with Joe, you know, 812 00:40:18.980 --> 00:40:21.800 and we were talking recently on the phone and I 813 00:40:21.860 --> 00:40:24.329 was talking. He's doing a they're doing a reboot of 814 00:40:24.349 --> 00:40:27.210 Basic Instinct. And he was talking about how he wrote 815 00:40:27.309 --> 00:40:28.070 Basic Instinct. 816 00:40:28.090 --> 00:40:29.570 They are doing it. Who's in it? 817 00:40:30.570 --> 00:40:33.550 They're casting it. They're trying to. It was not Sharon Stone, but. 818 00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:36.340 She was so good in it. I mean, you

know. 819 00:40:36.650 --> 00:40:38.030 I think it's supposed to be some play on her 820 00:40:38.070 --> 00:40:42.030 daughter or something. But, you know, I mean, Basic Instinct 821 00:40:42.050 --> 00:40:44.280 was such a, you know, it's kind of like Chinatown, 822 00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:48.079 just like a classic crime, you know, script. And I 823 00:40:48.320 --> 00:40:51.340 remember I said to him, I was like, so how 824 00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:54.570 long did it take you to write Basic Instinct? And 825 00:40:54.590 --> 00:40:56.989 he said he wrote it in 13 days. He went 826 00:40:57.010 --> 00:41:01.110 to write and in 13 days he wrote this entire 827 00:41:01.170 --> 00:41:03.659 script and then turned it in. And they paid him like, 828 00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:05.820 you know, millions of dollars. And it seems really easy. 829 00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:07.820 And I said, wow, you wrote the whole thing in 830 00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:11.380 13 days? He said, yes, but he said, I was 831 00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:15.800 thinking about it for three years before. Right. And then 832 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:18.280 he sat down and just wrote it, you know, and 833 00:41:18.300 --> 00:41:19.949 that's a little different than writing a novel. 834 00:41:20.550 --> 00:41:22.570 But I do like it because I do like you do. 835 00:41:22.670 --> 00:41:25.880 I like dialogue a lot. You know, so for me, it, 836 00:41:26.579 --> 00:41:28.360 you know, then I go, oh, do I have too 837 00:41:28.380 --> 00:41:31.519 much dialogue in it? But obviously they like the book 838 00:41:31.559 --> 00:41:35.480 when it's out. So, but I myself can't, I just 839 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.320 sit there and go, I see what the place looks like. 840 00:41:38.409 --> 00:41:41.349 But to me, I, then I start talking for the characters, 841 00:41:41.570 --> 00:41:45.489 you know? So I like, I do like dialogue a lot. 842 00:41:45.570 --> 00:41:47.849 When I read a book, I know myself, sometimes I 843 00:41:47.889 --> 00:41:50.730 will actually sort of skim or go right quickly through 844 00:41:50.750 --> 00:41:53.070 the description and then read the dialogue. Even, you know, 845 00:41:53.090 --> 00:41:55.059 if I'm reading somebody else's book, if it's a whole 846 00:41:55.099 --> 00:41:59.650 page about what the backyard looks like, I don't necessarily 847 00:41:59.670 --> 00:42:01.250 got to read it all. I'll just kind of like, OK, 848 00:42:01.269 --> 00:42:02.329 I get it. 849 00:42:02.530 --> 00:42:04.590 And then I. You get it. 850 00:42:04.690 --> 00:42:07.010 When I'm writing, like I said, I tend to, I 851 00:42:07.050 --> 00:42:11.800 probably do less description. you know, than most authors in 852 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:13.599 terms of also the people, people say, well, you know, 853 00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:16.380 you haven't described Claire, you know, I, I sort of 854 00:42:16.420 --> 00:42:18.420 like the idea that you have her in, in your mind, 855 00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:19.219 like you picture. 856 00:42:19.260 --> 00:42:21.699 Oh, I know who Claire, you know, yes, you know, 857 00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:25.219 I think you describe her just by everything she does. 858 00:42:25.699 --> 00:42:27.960 Yeah. But, but it's not like, you know, this, this, 859 00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:30.760 what exactly the color of her hair and what she's 860 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.159 wearing and all that stuff. You know, I, I don't, uh, 861 00:42:33.539 --> 00:42:35.440 I don't do, I don't do a lot of description 862 00:42:35.500 --> 00:42:39.570 about that. I just basically, uh, I like the idea, 863 00:42:39.610 --> 00:42:42.510 like I say, that leave it up to people's, probably 864 00:42:42.530 --> 00:42:45.369 different people read the book, have different visions of what 865 00:42:45.530 --> 00:42:46.070 she looks like. 866 00:42:46.610 --> 00:42:47.869 Charles, how do you feel about that? 867 00:42:48.690 --> 00:42:53.239 I have no idea how my characters look. And, you know, 868 00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:56.019 you sometimes get that question early on, like, who would 869 00:42:56.039 --> 00:43:00.019 you cast in the movie? It's a hard question for 870 00:43:00.059 --> 00:43:03.380 me because, like Dick, first of all, I'm not that 871 00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:07.320 good at description. But I don't like a lot of 872 00:43:07.409 --> 00:43:12.730 it either, Dick. I'm with you. For me, dialogue propels 873 00:43:12.769 --> 00:43:17.710 the novel forward. But the thing with screenplays is you 874 00:43:17.769 --> 00:43:24.159 can't have a lot of dialogue either. When I first 875 00:43:24.219 --> 00:43:26.940 started doing it, I would have someone speak the way 876 00:43:26.980 --> 00:43:29.360 we normally speak, but it might be a paragraph, might 877 00:43:29.380 --> 00:43:31.789 be four or five lines. And that's too long for 878 00:43:31.849 --> 00:43:35.309 a movie. You know, people don't have the patience for that. 879 00:43:35.369 --> 00:43:37.449 Well, except if they're doing a speech. 880 00:43:37.550 --> 00:43:40.820 If they're, like, standing and doing a speech and talking, 881 00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:43.840 you can do that. And then you can also veer 882 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:46.239 it to some of the guests. Like, if they're bored, 883 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:49.239 you know, you could say, you shoot over to the 884 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:51.840 guests that are bored listening to it or whatever. 885 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:53.619 But I think there are some. 886 00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.739 Because some good actors really can pull that off in 887 00:43:56.780 --> 00:43:58.760 a movie. And they do a lot. 888 00:43:59.050 --> 00:44:02.199 You also... I was going to say, the thing that 889 00:44:02.219 --> 00:44:04.500 you always learn in, I'm sorry, I used to say, 890 00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:07.539 the thing you always learn in scripts writing is they say, 891 00:44:07.659 --> 00:44:10.050 show it, don't tell it. So you have to

visually 892 00:44:10.090 --> 00:44:12.260 do it as opposed to just having somebody talk about it. 893 00:44:12.309 --> 00:44:13.150 I'm sorry, Charles. 894 00:44:13.550 --> 00:44:17.210 I was just going to say, apropos of what you said, Mark, 895 00:44:19.429 --> 00:44:23.349 Marlon Brando gave some of the best performances ever, and 896 00:44:23.389 --> 00:44:26.670 he also did some of the worst performances ever. 897 00:44:26.690 --> 00:44:27.090 Yeah. 898 00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:29.179 And he, there was a fellow by the name of 899 00:44:29.219 --> 00:44:33.670 William Redfield who wrote, who was, he was, he knew 900 00:44:33.730 --> 00:44:36.809 Brando quite well. He was a roommate with him early 901 00:44:36.869 --> 00:44:39.429 years here. And he wrote a book called Letters from 902 00:44:39.469 --> 00:44:43.429 an Actor. And he was asked that question a lot. 903 00:44:43.690 --> 00:44:47.110 You know, how can Brando be so good and so 904 00:44:47.179 --> 00:44:50.079 bad at the same time? And he said, it's all 905 00:44:50.119 --> 00:44:52.920 in the writing. He said, if it's good writing, Brando 906 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:57.500 can be brilliant acted. But if it's really bad writing... 907 00:44:58.079 --> 00:44:59.179 He just can't pull it off. 908 00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:03.639 Well, I just watched Sayonara with him. I watched Sayonara 909 00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:06.300 with him and he didn't say as much as how 910 00:45:06.380 --> 00:45:09.420 he was acting so good. That's what I thought when 911 00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:13.889 I saw his facial movements, his eyes, everything made him 912 00:45:14.219 --> 00:45:15.730 unique in that. 913 00:45:16.829 --> 00:45:19.070 Well, you know, who's got, who's terrific at that is, 914 00:45:19.550 --> 00:45:22.150 and I'll give you a particular scene is De Niro. 915 00:45:22.789 --> 00:45:25.130 There's a scene in Goodfellas where he's sitting at the 916 00:45:25.150 --> 00:45:28.699 bar and And there's someone else, another gangster at the bar, 917 00:45:29.059 --> 00:45:33.980 who's really obnoxious. And De Niro does not say a word. 918 00:45:34.500 --> 00:45:37.139 But from his eyes, you can see he's going to 919 00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:37.780 kill this guy. 920 00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:41.469 I know that exact scene. 921 00:45:41.530 --> 00:45:44.010 I do, too, because I love that movie. 922 00:45:44.050 --> 00:45:44.489 Right, Dick? 923 00:45:44.550 --> 00:45:47.070 I mean, you know he doesn't say a thing. But 924 00:45:47.130 --> 00:45:50.130 you know the acting is so good. You know this 925 00:45:50.170 --> 00:45:51.869 guy doesn't have long for the world. 926 00:45:52.579 --> 00:45:52.920 Right. 927 00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:56.739 With Billy Bats, who, a very violent scene, who does get, 928 00:45:56.900 --> 00:46:00.159 you know, killed. But that, to me, was incredible acting 929 00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:01.199 without saying a word. 930 00:46:02.210 --> 00:46:04.050 Right, right, right. Yeah. 931 00:46:04.349 --> 00:46:07.289 I mean, Goodfellas is, to me, like, I watched it. 932 00:46:07.369 --> 00:46:09.130 I still watch it a lot. And I watched that 933 00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:10.739 in Vegas a lot. 934 00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:11.760 Not Vegas. 935 00:46:11.780 --> 00:46:12.739 Is that what it is? Yeah, right. 936 00:46:13.190 --> 00:46:14.929 Casino. Casino, yeah. 937 00:46:15.130 --> 00:46:15.909 I watched that. 938 00:46:15.929 --> 00:46:19.199 Casino's not quite as good, I thought it is, but 939 00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:20.090 he's very good in that too. 940 00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:21.960 Goodfellas is the best. 941 00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:23.800 I had dinner. I was going to do a book 942 00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:28.400 with Joe Pistone, who was Donnie Brasco, and I had 943 00:46:28.940 --> 00:46:33.960 the good fortune to have dinner with him. There's always 944 00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.639 this debate of the greatest gangster movie. Is it The 945 00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:41.820 Godfather or is it Goodfellas? And he said that Goodfellas... 946 00:46:41.420 --> 00:46:44.130 I asked him that. He said Goodfellas is the truest 947 00:46:44.570 --> 00:46:49.690 to what it was really like in any other gangster movie. 948 00:46:49.849 --> 00:46:54.139 So he did a great job of writing the book 949 00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:57.280 and then the movie, Nick Pelleggi. He really caught what 950 00:46:57.300 --> 00:46:57.940 he was like. 951 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:01.739 And somebody... I've seen reviews of it, too, that have 952 00:47:01.889 --> 00:47:04.159 pointed out, which which I think makes it great is 953 00:47:04.659 --> 00:47:06.980 it's not so much a movie like The Godfather where 954 00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:09.340 you're where you're in the family. I mean, you're the 955 00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:12.940 Henry Hill is basically an outsider, you know, because he's 956 00:47:13.639 --> 00:47:16.690 not a big man. He's part of that whole group, 957 00:47:17.150 --> 00:47:20.530 but he's always never going to be, you know, one 958 00:47:20.570 --> 00:47:21.929 of the guys. 959 00:47:21.989 --> 00:47:24.380 He's only half Italian. So he can be. 960 00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.639 And you're looking at it and you're looking at everything 961 00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:31.420 then through his eyes where he's like an observer of 962 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:34.739 it all. And that's when you can do that. I 963 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:38.610 just think that's what makes that movie that, yeah. I 964 00:47:38.650 --> 00:47:40.989 don't know that you can compare The Godfather and Goodfellas 965 00:47:41.030 --> 00:47:43.889 because they're just, they're both great, but they're completely different. 966 00:47:44.429 --> 00:47:49.630 Yeah, but some of these movies, they're just like you 967 00:47:49.989 --> 00:47:52.670 could watch them over and over again and still learn 968 00:47:52.730 --> 00:47:58.570 something while you're watching it. Joe Pesci, I don't know. 969

00:47:58.670 --> 00:48:01.750 He wasn't in a lot of movies afterwards, but he's 970 00:48:01.889 --> 00:48:03.210 so good. 971 00:48:04.409 --> 00:48:08.860 But it's weird. He did that kind of movie where 972 00:48:08.900 --> 00:48:11.039 he's the most evil, despicable person. 973 00:48:11.500 --> 00:48:12.219 And then my cousin. 974 00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:16.880 My Cousin Vinny, right. That's where he's funny and everything. 975 00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:20.880 And then the Mel Gibson movies, you know, he was 976 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.119 like a comic relief, you know. But he quit acting, 977 00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:26.739 I think. I think he just retired or whatever at 978 00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:27.179 some point. 979 00:48:27.239 --> 00:48:29.500 But he was so good in a lot of these, 980 00:48:29.559 --> 00:48:31.500 you know. And the other one that I really like 981 00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:33.860 is Michael Douglas. I watch everything he does. I don't 982 00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:36.400 care what he does. I like his movies, you know. 983 00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:40.880 And Basic Instinct, he was great in that. It just 984 00:48:40.900 --> 00:48:42.119 was a You know. 985 00:48:42.219 --> 00:48:43.829 Do you think so? And if you like him a 986 00:48:43.869 --> 00:48:44.349 lot or. 987 00:48:45.070 --> 00:48:48.849 I like him. I did not like that movie, Basic Instinct, 988 00:48:48.909 --> 00:48:52.389 but I like... Douglas has done some really interesting stuff. 989 00:48:53.309 --> 00:48:54.409 See, I'd like him to be the president. 990 00:48:54.429 --> 00:48:55.829 Wait, I want to hear what you said. 991 00:48:55.869 --> 00:48:57.750 You said you didn't like Basic Instinct? Really? 992 00:48:58.530 --> 00:48:59.730 Yeah, I didn't like it, no. 993 00:49:00.190 --> 00:49:02.090 Wow, you're one of the few people I've ever heard 994 00:49:02.130 --> 00:49:02.949 say that, you know? 995 00:49:03.150 --> 00:49:03.389 Yeah. 996 00:49:04.670 --> 00:49:06.460 What is it that you didn't like about it? 997 00:49:06.989 --> 00:49:12.369 I just didn't... I'm not a big fan of Esther House's... screenplays. 998 00:49:12.389 --> 00:49:16.739 I think he's way over the top I don't know. 999 00:49:16.760 --> 00:49:21.179 It's just a matter of personal likes and dislikes, I guess. 1000 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:24.400 And then that great last scene. 1001 00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:26.699 With the ice pick under the bed. I mean, my God. 1002 00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:31.619 I like every scene. I just love that movie. That 1003 00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:33.000 was just a good movie. 1004 00:49:33.469 --> 00:49:37.550 But I do like Michael Douglas when he's giving the 1005 00:49:37.610 --> 00:49:38.769 speech as the president. 1006 00:49:38.909 --> 00:49:39.429 Oh, my God. 1007 00:49:40.090 --> 00:49:42.349 I could watch that scene and go like, oh, I 1008 00:49:42.409 --> 00:49:46.070 want this guy to be president. I think that was 1009 00:49:46.130 --> 00:49:49.690 a well-received

movie that Rob Reiner did. 1010 00:49:49.730 --> 00:49:50.409 It was so good. 1011 00:49:51.150 --> 00:49:51.489 Yeah. 1012 00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:54.440 That's the thing. 1013 00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:57.300 Some of the movies now that I watch, I'm going like, 1014 00:49:57.719 --> 00:49:59.900 I don't even know why I'm watching them because they're 1015 00:49:59.940 --> 00:50:05.179 not that great. But because there's so many outlets now, 1016 00:50:05.219 --> 00:50:05.980 they got to fill them. 1017 00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:07.699 So they put a lot of movies out. 1018 00:50:08.019 --> 00:50:11.300 Do both of you still? I used to love going 1019 00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:14.119 to the movies. I just find myself not now. I mean, 1020 00:50:14.139 --> 00:50:15.269 I tend to watch. 1021 00:50:15.309 --> 00:50:17.130 I used to go every weekend. My husband and I 1022 00:50:17.150 --> 00:50:20.650 went every weekend. Sometimes we went to see three movies, Friday, 1023 00:50:20.670 --> 00:50:23.789 Saturday and Sunday. A lot of them I watch on 1024 00:50:23.809 --> 00:50:26.969 TV now. I watch with big screens. So I watch it, 1025 00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:27.420 you know. 1026 00:50:27.889 --> 00:50:30.230 And they come so fast. I mean, you know, it's like. 1027 00:50:30.630 --> 00:50:31.989 I like the reaction. 1028 00:50:32.429 --> 00:50:34.150 It'll be in the theater, and then, like, a week 1029 00:50:34.190 --> 00:50:36.829 or two later, you'll say, oh, I saw it on Amazon. 1030 00:50:36.869 --> 00:50:38.650 You know, I was just going to say that, Dick. 1031 00:50:39.030 --> 00:50:41.719 I love going to the movie theater, but you're absolutely right. 1032 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.599 If you don't see it that first week, it's gone, 1033 00:50:44.619 --> 00:50:45.300 and I'm screaming. 1034 00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:47.519 It's gone. Right, right. Yeah, you know. 1035 00:50:48.139 --> 00:50:50.380 And, you know, the thing is, like, I don't know 1036 00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:52.780 about you guys, but we spend a ton of money 1037 00:50:52.860 --> 00:50:53.820 on cable, okay? 1038 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.340 I mean, I have everything. 1039 00:50:55.409 --> 00:50:55.550 I do. 1040 00:50:55.840 --> 00:50:56.289 And then. 1041 00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:00.679 after you spend all, like ours is like 400 or something. 1042 00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:04.099 I know we spend a lot. Then I'm thinking like, 1043 00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:04.480 why are. 1044 00:51:04.460 --> 00:51:07.360 They charging me then to watch something I'm already paying 1045 00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:08.500 so much money for? 1046 00:51:09.099 --> 00:51:11.260 But you know, I got Hulu and all of that. 1047 00:51:11.590 --> 00:51:15.349 So I think that like, see Netflix, I think for people, 1048 00:51:15.389 --> 00:51:18.369 that's why so many people like it because you pay what, 1049 00:51:18.369 --> 00:51:20.849 20 bucks and you see as many movies as you want, 1050 00:51:22.010 --> 00:51:27.889 you know? But

like, Sometimes on Prime, it's $ 20, you know. 1051 00:51:27.889 --> 00:51:30.050 $ 19. 99. 1052 00:51:28.610 --> 00:51:29.010 Oh, yeah. 1053 00:51:29.090 --> 00:51:31.550 And then one minute later, it's off, and it's free. 1054 00:51:33.929 --> 00:51:35.389 But you want to see it. You know, I mean, 1055 00:51:35.489 --> 00:51:37.190 it's like, you know, when there's a movie out, I'm like, okay, 1056 00:51:37.210 --> 00:51:37.690 I want to see it. 1057 00:51:37.849 --> 00:51:38.710 I know, I know. 1058 00:51:38.969 --> 00:51:41.789 Like things, you know, like when the Dylan movie came out, 1059 00:51:41.969 --> 00:51:43.449 I wanted to see it, so I paid for it, 1060 00:51:43.530 --> 00:51:43.769 you know. 1061 00:51:43.909 --> 00:51:46.250 Yeah, yeah. I do, too. You know, I do, and 1062 00:51:46.289 --> 00:51:48.670 I added on. But I think, you know, when you 1063 00:51:48.730 --> 00:51:49.489 really think. 1064 00:51:49.349 --> 00:51:52.400 About how much it does cost with everything, You know, 1065 00:51:52.420 --> 00:51:56.539 if you get Prime and Hulu and Apple, I have. 1066 00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:57.800 All of them. 1067 00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.260 Well, very soon we're not going to have a choice. 1068 00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:06.090 I mean, for instance, there's an enormous multiplex on First Avenue. 1069 00:52:06.110 --> 00:52:08.750 Is it First Avenue or Second Avenue? I'm sorry, Second 1070 00:52:08.809 --> 00:52:12.170 Avenue and 32nd Street. It's one of these giant agencies. 1071 00:52:12.469 --> 00:52:16.829 They're going out of business because NYU bought the property. Really? 1072 00:52:16.969 --> 00:52:17.409 Oh, my God. 1073 00:52:17.429 --> 00:52:19.630 Yeah, and they're going to add to the hospital there. 1074 00:52:19.900 --> 00:52:23.500 That's about 20 screens that are disappearing from that area. 1075 00:52:23.900 --> 00:52:25.800 It's not far from my neighborhood, Charles. 1076 00:52:25.900 --> 00:52:26.840 Right, it is probably. 1077 00:52:26.860 --> 00:52:29.239 Yeah, a lot of ours have gone down. 1078 00:52:29.300 --> 00:52:32.380 That's one of those, yeah, that's one of those big complexes. 1079 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:35.260 And I had just heard that too. 1080 00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.510 But I always used to like to go to see 1081 00:52:37.530 --> 00:52:40.750 the reactions from people. I love that part. You know, 1082 00:52:40.789 --> 00:52:42.960 I'd like to see when they get up and, when 1083 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:46.110 they're walking out, what they're talking about. I like to 1084 00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:48.110 be in there, you know, to hear what they. 1085 00:52:47.829 --> 00:52:48.570 Say about it. 1086 00:52:48.829 --> 00:52:51.329 Whole experience sitting there, you eat popcorn, get a soda, 1087 00:52:51.349 --> 00:52:56.309 you know, you know, and it's just, it's, yeah, I've always, I, I, I, 1088 00:52:57.070 --> 00:53:00.099 I worked nights a lot when years ago and they 1089 00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:02.809 say you'd be off during the day. And I actually 1090 00:53:02.829 --> 00:53:04.369 used to enjoy going to movies during the day when 1091 00:53:04.389 --> 00:53:05.150 there weren't many people. 1092 00:53:05.190 --> 00:53:06.349 Yeah, it was great. 1093 00:53:06.429 --> 00:53:06.949 Right, yeah. 1094 00:53:06.969 --> 00:53:07.730 Not a lot of people. 1095 00:53:08.230 --> 00:53:11.449 But listen, everything does change. And I hate everybody says 1096 00:53:11.489 --> 00:53:14.659 that everything's changing. But some of the things that are 1097 00:53:14.699 --> 00:53:18.199 changing are not so good, but they're changing anyway. As 1098 00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:19.860 we speak, something is changing. 1099 00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:23.880 Well, one of the problems for me is that there's 1100 00:53:23.880 --> 00:53:28.960 25 minutes of commercials and trailers before it even starts. 1101 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:32.230 I'm exhausted by the time it starts. Yeah. 1102 00:53:32.489 --> 00:53:34.969 Well, and you never can time it because I went to, 1103 00:53:35.090 --> 00:53:36.989 I actually went to the theater to see, what's it called? 1104 00:53:37.010 --> 00:53:40.239 Full Disclosure, the Spielberg movie about flying saucers and stuff. 1105 00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:42.579 See, that came in really fast. 1106 00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:43.920 What's that? 1107 00:53:44.619 --> 00:53:46.519 That came in, went so fast. I didn't get a 1108 00:53:46.519 --> 00:53:47.139 chance to see it. 1109 00:53:47.219 --> 00:53:50.369 It wasn't, it wasn't, uh, it was a little disappointing 1110 00:53:50.449 --> 00:53:53.039 on some levels, you know, but, but, uh, But that 1111 00:53:53.079 --> 00:53:55.059 was one. And I don't really go, I really go 1112 00:53:55.079 --> 00:53:56.880 to the theater, but I went and I, and I 1113 00:53:56.900 --> 00:53:59.000 did the whole thing, which is, well, there's gonna be 1114 00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:01.099 25 minutes of preview. So I'll go 10 minutes late 1115 00:54:01.119 --> 00:54:02.769 or whatever. I don't have to sit through them all. 1116 00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:04.630 And I got there and I'd missed the beginning of 1117 00:54:04.639 --> 00:54:08.289 the movie because it started early. So you're never, you 1118 00:54:08.309 --> 00:54:09.349 really have to. 1119 00:54:09.429 --> 00:54:11.429 I hate if I miss the beginning of the movie, 1120 00:54:11.469 --> 00:54:12.989 I don't want to watch it. I have to see 1121 00:54:13.010 --> 00:54:13.510 the beginning. 1122 00:54:13.670 --> 00:54:16.269 But I just, I just sat there watching trailer after 1123 00:54:16.289 --> 00:54:18.369 trailer of movies that I don't want to see. And I'm, 1124 00:54:18.650 --> 00:54:21.610 you know, just you're tired by the time the movie starts. 1125 00:54:21.690 --> 00:54:24.190 So I would like to, I want Charles to tell 1126 00:54:24.230 --> 00:54:26.949 everybody about some of your books and what's next for 1127 00:54:27.010 --> 00:54:27.610 you and what's.

1128 00:54:28.309 --> 00:54:28.869 Oh, okay. 1129 00:54:29.349 --> 00:54:31.159 So we don't forget that. 1130 00:54:31.780 --> 00:54:35.159 I started with a series, Henry Swan, who's a skip tracer, 1131 00:54:35.739 --> 00:54:38.760 which is the lowest form of detective. I, yes. And 1132 00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:41.920 there are five of those. And I stopped because I 1133 00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:44.380 just thought, I don't want to keep writing this, this, 1134 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:51.929 the same thing. Then I, I have stand-alones as well. 1135 00:54:52.070 --> 00:54:57.369 And they're not mysteries, the traditional mysteries. As a matter 1136 00:54:57.389 --> 00:55:01.329 of fact, most of my novels don't have murders in them. 1137 00:55:02.409 --> 00:55:06.260 And if they do, they happen before the book even starts. 1138 00:55:08.300 --> 00:55:12.119 And the latest book I had, and I did a book, 1139 00:55:12.699 --> 00:55:12.849 it's a. 1140 00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:16.980 Example of what I'm talking about. I did a book 1141 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:20.280 called Second Story Man, which was about a master burglar. 1142 00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:24.340 And I had no intention of writing another one, but 1143 00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:28.360 I started to think about what happens to the character 1144 00:55:28.510 --> 00:55:31.889 after the book ends. And I thought, I'm really interested 1145 00:55:31.909 --> 00:55:34.489 to see what happens. And I wrote the sequel to 1146 00:55:34.570 --> 00:55:36.969 it just to see what happens to him after the 1147 00:55:36.989 --> 00:55:40.090 first one. And the book out now is called The 1148 00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:44.530 Beginning of Everything. And it's got a paranormal element, but 1149 00:55:44.570 --> 00:55:48.380 it's really about a guy who's a journalist who has 1150 00:55:49.110 --> 00:55:52.039 ESP since he was a kid. He sees things. He 1151 00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:55.380 sees visions. He doesn't talk to the dead. He doesn't predict. 1152 00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:58.659 And he's never told anyone because he's embarrassed by it 1153 00:55:59.039 --> 00:56:02.380 and a little afraid of it. The only one who knows, 1154 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:05.079 and it was accidental, is his best friend. And his 1155 00:56:05.139 --> 00:56:08.940 best friend comes to him one day. His college-age stepdaughter 1156 00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:13.380 is missing. And he asks Josh, this character, to help 1157 00:56:13.420 --> 00:56:16.500 him and to find her. And you know he's asking 1158 00:56:16.559 --> 00:56:20.070 him because he knows that he has this ability. And 1159 00:56:20.110 --> 00:56:22.030 so that's what the latest book is about. 1160 00:56:23.570 --> 00:56:27.510 And, you know, I read most of Charles's, pretty much all, 1161 00:56:27.570 --> 00:56:28.829 I think, pretty much all of Charles's books. 1162 00:56:28.849 --> 00:56:30.090 Yeah, I think you have. 1163 00:56:30.510 --> 00:56:34.239 One interesting thing about him is that his books are 1164 00:56:34.300 --> 00:56:36.300 all very different. I mean, he tends to write. 1165 00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:37.880 That's a good thing. That's a good thing. 1166 00:56:37.980 --> 00:56:41.199 Yeah, and this certainly falls, the beginning of everything certainly 1167 00:56:41.219 --> 00:56:43.420 falls in that category. But like you said, he started 1168 00:56:43.440 --> 00:56:47.610 out with Swan, and then, you know, the Second Story Man, and... 1169 00:56:47.789 --> 00:56:53.420 Devil in the Hole. Yeah. Also, it made me my favorite. 1170 00:56:53.619 --> 00:56:55.099 So where should people start? 1171 00:56:55.159 --> 00:56:57.679 If someone wants to, where should someone start? 1172 00:56:57.699 --> 00:56:59.679 See, I wrote them all as standalone, so it doesn't 1173 00:56:59.699 --> 00:57:03.719 really matter. And the first swan is called Swan's Last 1174 00:57:03.760 --> 00:57:06.179 Song because I never thought I'd write another one with 1175 00:57:06.260 --> 00:57:07.300 a swan character. 1176 00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:11.789 So here's another song. We all probably have another song. 1177 00:57:12.309 --> 00:57:15.090 Yeah. Our friend Reed Farrell Coleman, cause I I've seen 1178 00:57:15.130 --> 00:57:17.110 him and he did an interview with me as, as 1179 00:57:17.170 --> 00:57:19.250 Dick did too. He said the other day, he said, 1180 00:57:19.269 --> 00:57:21.389 you know, you have a sub genre of your own 1181 00:57:21.989 --> 00:57:24.210 to me. And I said, really? He said, yeah. He said, 1182 00:57:24.250 --> 00:57:26.730 you leave a lot of, you leave a lot of 1183 00:57:26.789 --> 00:57:30.449 things dangling. You don't, you don't have closure on a 1184 00:57:30.489 --> 00:57:33.800 lot of things. And I know you do that purposely. Uh, 1185 00:57:33.869 --> 00:57:36.769 it's not out of laziness or forgetfulness that I don't, 1186 00:57:37.389 --> 00:57:40.389 that I'll start up something because I think life is 1187 00:57:40.429 --> 00:57:45.159 like that. So, um, So I agree with Dick. They 1188 00:57:45.260 --> 00:57:47.670 are all different, even though they're all crime novels. 1189 00:57:48.650 --> 00:57:49.190 Right. 1190 00:57:49.469 --> 00:57:52.190 And they're an audio book. I think one of the 1191 00:57:52.789 --> 00:57:54.690 beginning of everything. Is that an audio book? 1192 00:57:54.750 --> 00:57:54.969 I don't. 1193 00:57:56.269 --> 00:57:56.809 It is. 1194 00:57:57.309 --> 00:57:59.909 As the Blackstone put it out as an audio book. 1195 00:58:00.889 --> 00:58:02.380 OK, I like audio. I like audio. 1196 00:58:03.150 --> 00:58:04.710 They're all on audio now. 1197 00:58:04.889 --> 00:58:10.690 I think audio is important. That's how I listen. I 1198 00:58:10.730 --> 00:58:12.929 love that, audio books. But I have had so many 1199 00:58:13.050 --> 00:58:16.800 authors on, and most of them do not like audio books. 1200 00:58:17.050 --> 00:58:17.510 I love them. 1201 00:58:21.440 --> 00:58:24.659 I did have

something very interesting because my new publisher, 1202 00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:27.940 in putting all the others, there were four that were 1203 00:58:27.980 --> 00:58:31.369 never out as audio. and they sent me samples of 1204 00:58:31.409 --> 00:58:35.030 the audio, and they were all AI. Not actors. 1205 00:58:35.050 --> 00:58:35.489 Oh, really? 1206 00:58:35.750 --> 00:58:40.570 Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. Well, but if you use... Yeah. 1207 00:58:40.750 --> 00:58:43.429 But if you use Audible, you get to pick, you know, 1208 00:58:44.010 --> 00:58:44.780 a lot of times. 1209 00:58:45.300 --> 00:58:45.579 Right. 1210 00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:48.260 I've never listened to a book. I don't have anything 1211 00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:50.960 against it, but I've never actually listened to a book. 1212 00:58:51.099 --> 00:58:51.599 I love it. 1213 00:58:52.039 --> 00:58:54.639 Well, you don't... I mean, I've done... I mean, normally 1214 00:58:54.659 --> 00:58:59.269 you don't pick the person, Marcia. They... you know, you'll 1215 00:58:59.329 --> 00:59:01.940 prove the person. I mean, I've never... Oh, no, right, right. 1216 00:59:01.980 --> 00:59:02.570 You'll prove it. 1217 00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:04.840 And they'll say, are you okay with this person? And 1218 00:59:04.900 --> 00:59:06.730 I'm like, always, yeah, sure, whatever. 1219 00:59:06.789 --> 00:59:08.489 Well, some aren't, though, but if you don't have a 1220 00:59:08.530 --> 00:59:12.760 good voice, you know, I... had, I know what I want, 1221 00:59:12.800 --> 00:59:14.829 but if, and if it's, but now, I mean. 1222 00:59:15.150 --> 00:59:18.469 These people are professional, though. These are professional actors and actresses. 1223 00:59:18.309 --> 00:59:21.699 Who do this for a living. Yes, but sometimes it doesn't, Mitch. 1224 00:59:22.119 --> 00:59:25.550 But I'm one of those people, I guess because I'm 1225 00:59:25.730 --> 00:59:29.010 old school, you know, like, again, I can't listen to 1226 00:59:29.050 --> 00:59:32.489 an audible book because I keep losing track. And, you know, 1227 00:59:32.530 --> 00:59:33.809 I used to try and do it in my car 1228 00:59:33.829 --> 00:59:35.840 for a while and I just, I can't do it. 1229 00:59:35.909 --> 00:59:40.179 I read. Yeah. Yeah. 1230 00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:41.019 Most of everybody. 1231 00:59:41.219 --> 00:59:43.139 I just think, I just seem to be one of 1232 00:59:43.159 --> 00:59:45.820 the people that likes audio. All right, Dick, tell everybody 1233 00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:47.960 about you. What's, what have you got going for the. 1234 00:59:48.039 --> 00:59:48.280 Okay. 1235 00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:51.440 Well, I actually have a, this sounds more exciting probably, 1236 00:59:51.559 --> 00:59:53.429 probably than it necessarily is, but I have a bunch 1237 00:59:53.469 --> 00:59:57.909 of books coming out. I, so my book, my book 1238 00:59:57.929 --> 01:00:00.469 that's out now, it's called the vanishes and the vanishes 1239 01:00:00.570 --> 01:00:03.829 is paranormal. One about people disappearing from a summer house. 1240 01:00:04.110 --> 01:00:08.739 And that that's out in a ebook and a, print 1241 01:00:08.860 --> 01:00:12.159 but it's uh talking about audible uh a place called 1242 01:00:12.179 --> 01:00:15.739 podium entertainment is putting out the audible version in later 1243 01:00:15.780 --> 01:00:19.360 this month in september and uh uh so i'm pretty 1244 01:00:19.380 --> 01:00:22.480 excited about that because they've done another time and uh 1245 01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:25.739 so that's that's out now in uh in november i 1246 01:00:25.780 --> 01:00:28.780 have a book coming out called the mobile and uh 1247 01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:30.789 this is a kind of like a book i really 1248 01:00:30.849 --> 01:00:34.489 like doing um it's inspired in some ways by my 1249 01:00:34.610 --> 01:00:37.550 own long newspaper career people always say oh you should 1250 01:00:37.570 --> 01:00:39.920 write out like a book about your career this is 1251 01:00:39.980 --> 01:00:43.960 a kind of fictionalized inspiration about a media mogul I 1252 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.119 mean obviously people are going to think something like Rupert 1253 01:00:46.159 --> 01:00:48.489 Murdoch because I work for him but it's fiction but 1254 01:00:48.730 --> 01:00:49.969 you know when I wrote it I was kind of 1255 01:00:50.030 --> 01:00:51.909 thinking like I want to do a version of like 1256 01:00:51.969 --> 01:00:55.449 Citizen Kane of a of a somebody who starts off 1257 01:00:55.659 --> 01:00:57.559 like it's kind of a noble thing and then they're 1258 01:00:57.820 --> 01:01:00.260 you know the whole thing sort of just falls apart 1259 01:01:00.300 --> 01:01:03.150 at some point And gets involved in scandal and everything. 1260 01:01:03.269 --> 01:01:05.349 So that's the book I wrote. And it sort of 1261 01:01:05.469 --> 01:01:10.949 encapsulates a lot of stuff that I lived in the 70s, 80s, 1262 01:01:11.010 --> 01:01:14.219 and 90s. It's also a book that spans several decades. 1263 01:01:14.260 --> 01:01:15.960 So it's a bit different if you've read. 1264 01:01:16.039 --> 01:01:17.280 My other books. 1265 01:01:17.860 --> 01:01:20.880 And then talking about different, I just sold another book 1266 01:01:20.920 --> 01:01:24.000 that's coming out in December, believe it or not. They're 1267 01:01:24.019 --> 01:01:26.639 very back to back. And this is called The Hitler Legacy. 1268 01:01:27.260 --> 01:01:31.920 And I know Charles mentioned reading, you know, Jack Reacher 1269 01:01:32.139 --> 01:01:35.400 and Lee Child. And this is kind of my version 1270 01:01:35.420 --> 01:01:37.400 of trying to do a Jack Reacher, Lee Child book 1271 01:01:37.460 --> 01:01:43.000 about a kind of a disgraced CIA guy who's you know, 1272 01:01:43.019 --> 01:01:45.559 who's trying to stop a takeover of the White House. 1273 01:01:45.639 --> 01:01:47.960 And it's got all kind of political intrigue and everything 1274 01:01:48.059 --> 01:01:51.510 going on it. So The Mogul in November and The 1275 01:01:51.550 --> 01:01:56.369 Hitler Legacy in December. And finally, I just turned in 1276 01:01:57.449 --> 01:02:00.869 the seventh book in the Claire Carlson series, and that's 1277 01:02:00.949 --> 01:02:03.889 scheduled for next April. So, you know. 1278 01:02:03.929 --> 01:02:07.210 And by the way, Marcia, during this hour that we talked, 1279 01:02:07.789 --> 01:02:08.750 Dick wrote another book. 1280 01:02:13.349 --> 01:02:15.030 Yes, he'll be on tomorrow to discuss it. 1281 01:02:15.670 --> 01:02:18.789 Like I said, it sounds a little more impressive than 1282 01:02:18.829 --> 01:02:20.510 it really is, but I just got. 1283 01:02:20.590 --> 01:02:21.550 No, it's impressive. 1284 01:02:21.769 --> 01:02:22.550 It's impressive. 1285 01:02:22.670 --> 01:02:23.510 It's impressive. 1286 01:02:23.530 --> 01:02:23.969 Very. 1287 01:02:24.369 --> 01:02:27.289 Yeah, I mean, you write really good, and you're an 1288 01:02:27.429 --> 01:02:30.300 interesting guest, and it's always fun. And Charles, it's so 1289 01:02:30.380 --> 01:02:32.320 nice to have you on. I hope you'll come on again. 1290 01:02:32.340 --> 01:02:32.739 Thank you so much. 1291 01:02:33.480 --> 01:02:35.699 And it was a great show, and I'll put the 1292 01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:39.409 link out. later on today. And thank you so much 1293 01:02:39.469 --> 01:02:41.909 for listening, everybody. And thank you too, for coming on. 1294 01:02:41.949 --> 01:02:44.050 It was really fun. Have a great day. 1295 01:02:44.550 --> 01:02:46.219 Bye-bye. Thanks everybody. 1296 01:02:46.239 --> 01:02:46.780 Bye-bye. 1297 01:02:46.800 --> 01:02:46.920 Bye.